Jimmie Johnson Interview

First Atlanta race, I was able to run on the lead lap and finish in the top five.

That light bulb went off.

How do we do what Jimmy Johnson and Chad Knauss have done and not lay an egg?

What motivated me all those years was fear.

When I stepped away, I didn't want to be driven by that anymore.

It was rare that I got to beat you like that.

You know, I'm the ballparker.

You know I'm the ballparker.

What a race!

California's Kevin Harvick's coming!

Kevin Harvick's coming!

Welcome to Kevin Harvick's happy hour presented by

NASCAR on Fox and today we have the seven-time NASCAR Cup Series champ, Jimmy Johnson.

Thanks for taking the time.

Yeah, glad to be here, man.

Yeah, I've had this one circled because it's fun to be able to go back and you came

up at the exact time period that I did and being able to go through racing during

that time, we got to race against so many cool generations of old, new, of all the

things that it was, but just talk about where you started and when in seven

championships.

That can't be what you thought when you when you started racing.

No, not even close and you know as we were coming up through the ranks together, we had

plenty of conversations around like the dream and what it could look like and I couldn't

even dream this big.

So it's been a wild ride and much like you growing up on the West Coast, being

surrounded by motorsports in the different forms of racing, the different heroes

that came along from dirt to two-wheels, four-wheels, asphalt, whatever it might

be.

I just grew up in a racing family.

My dad loved racing, loves racing, very mechanically inclined.

My mom even raced three-wheelers back in the day like grandparents in a motorcycle

store and so to have to grow up in that area and have the deserts nearby, the

rivers, the lakes, it didn't matter if it was summer or winter, we were on

something that was motorized and that really gave me a great base to go

racing from.

And I think I think when you when you come to North Carolina and you might

think about this different, but when I came to North Carolina, people, we were

fortunate that we were in a time when the Cup Series was looking for the

next young drivers and but even when I go back now, it feels to me like they

don't take West Coast racing as serious as what somebody who did grew up

there.

Right.

And it really pisses me off.

It really makes me mad because when I grew up in racing, you could race anywhere,

anything, anytime if you wanted to go a couple hours in any direction.

And I think that a lot of people get the misperception of what West Coast

racing is because there's a lot of gear heads in California.

Am I thinking of that different than what you would?

No, I absolutely agree.

And I feel like your journey, my journey, certainly Jeff Gordon kind of

started that.

I didn't think somebody like Tony Stewart was helpful because he came from a

different background or an Irvin, you know, I feel like we keep knocking

down barriers, but still today and even being, you know, on the East Coast

as a team owner for whatever reason that West Coast seems so far away

and I'm not as connected as I should be and need to be.

Yeah.

And I think even NASCAR, they've struggled with trying to figure

out West Coast racing.

It's a different vibe, but a lot of hardcore racers.

So when we go back and we look at your racing background, where did all

that start to be able to lead?

I know this answer, but I know a lot of the fans want to hear it.

Where did it start to lead you to thinking that it might be able

to be a possibility to make a racing career out of it?

And I was determined in going back to my grade school and middle

school and high school that all my teachers shared papers and pulled

them out that it reminded me how determined I was.

The dream was always there, but it really all came together.

I would say in probably 95 is when it really came together.

And it was the combination of my relationship with Chevrolet and

the new relationship that was building with the Herzogs.

They were very successful in off-road racing, had been promised a lot by Ford and Dodge,

which none of those opportunities ever came together.

And I had some Chevrolet backing that I could bring to them.

And I was doing television and doing pit road reporting for ESPN in the

Midwest, this off-road series, and got to know them.

And I knew who they were, but found out that they had these kind of broken

promises from these other manufacturers and kind of raised my hand and said,

hey, I could bring Chevy.

And sure enough, everything came together.

And they thankfully had the same ambitions to make it the cup.

And so off-road ASA, Bush Grand National.

And one of the toughest things for me to do was to go to them and

say, hey, I've got an opportunity with Hendrick because they

invested tens of millions of dollars in me and so much time.

But like the great, sadly we've lost both Stan and Randy now.

But they both supported me and said, you've got to take that opportunity.

Yeah, well, it's great when you find a group of people that believe in what you do and

support and then you build that relationship.

And always those tough decisions are hard.

But you talk about going to Hendrick Motorsports and I think it's pretty

well known that Jeff Gordon was behind you and saw the car that you were

driving at one of the Bush series races and recognized the car control.

I could have gone so wrong through a big slider on them at Michigan.

And if I collected them and had no chance, I would have got the ride.

But thankfully I just cleared them.

Well, it worked out.

It worked out.

And but talk about that transition of going from the Herzogs.

You had, I would consider a family owned.

It was a family owned team that was trying to find their way.

You had Crazy Rambo working on the car and trying to figure things out.

And then boom, you go to Rick Hendrick and Hendrick Motorsports.

And what was that transition like to go from a family owned team to

the organization like Hendrick had?

It was a big shock to say the least.

And I ran three races in 2001 and the team was still kind of coming together.

We didn't have our full-time crew chief.

The manhouse was actually the crew chief for me.

Really?

Those three races, which was really cool.

I didn't really go for it, yeah.

But man, I think my best finish was like two laps down in 26th.

And so that 01 year was like, wow, this isn't just a step up.

This is five or 10 steps up to go cup racing.

So I was pretty, pretty worried.

And that worked very well because during the off season,

once we had Chad in place, you know, I just dug in and

leaned on the system that is Hendrick and wore Jeff Gordon out over ideas,

notes, how he drives.

And he didn't really even have notes going at that point in time.

But I was extracting all this stuff and making my own.

And man, I'll never forget the first Atlanta race, which was,

I don't know, second or third race of the season.

I was able to run on the lead lap and finish in the top five.

And I was like, this place is tough.

I ran around, you know, Mark Barton all day long.

I finished in the top five.

I was like, I'm going to be okay.

And that light bulb went off just to continue to lean on the Hendrick system

and have them keep teaching me.

So you mentioned Chad Canales.

Was he intense right from day one?

From day one.

Okay.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah.

And when you look at that relationship, you know, I know you pretty well.

I mean, you're a pretty calm, cool guy.

And he's pretty high strung, straightforward and demanding, you know,

from the outside looking in and the things that, that I've been,

I guess the balance is what made it because I feel like Rodney and myself

were the opposite.

He was the calm, cool, collected guy.

And it just worked because I didn't want to offend him,

but I wanted to do everything that he said.

And I didn't want to do anything dumb to make him mad.

Like I did the previous 13 years as I, as I went through my time at RCR.

So that dynamic obviously worked one, seven championships and, you know,

83 races.

So it obviously worked, but from the very beginning,

he was just the hard ass that, that came in to, to motivate and push you.

He was, uh, more than anything, he had a big chip on his shoulder.

He, uh, I think he was a frustrated driver that ended up being a crew chief.

So you have that, that element.

I did not even know he drove.

Yeah.

He, he wanted to be.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Did you, did you hear the story where he backed Stacey Compton's,

I think it was the Melling team that Stacey was driving for and Chad was crew

chief and they were at Milwaukee and Chad was convinced that the car should have

gone faster or one of the changes should have made a bigger difference.

Something happened and Chad's like, get out.

I'm getting in.

He jumped in the car and backed it in the fence, turned it into Milwaukee and

had to call the Melling's and tell them, oh, by the way, we crashed.

I go, oh, that's fine.

You know, Stacey.

Okay.

Well, actually I was driving the car.

It wasn't Stacey.

So did he ever drive your car?

Ever.

He finally gave up.

Yep.

That's funny.

So there was that piece, which was a funny, a funny undercurrent between he and

I that I, I could torture him on, but it was really never a public thing.

But, you know, he, he wanted to be a crew chief in the way Ray hired him.

One of the reasons Ray liked him so much was he sat across the desk from Ray

and said, look, I want your job someday.

That's why I'm here and what I want to do.

And so when he left the 24 car and try to pursue his crew chiefing

job, our career, you know, he had these failures along the way that just made

that chip more pronounced on his shoulder.

And when he got back to Hendrick, he knew it was his chance in his time.

I certainly had my own chip on my shoulder in a different way where, you know,

I got a couple of little later than most.

It was 25, 26 of my rookie year.

I knew I was going to have one shot.

Um, and I really felt like one year, if I didn't perform that first year,

I thought, you know, Hendrick would move on.

Um, and so we had that common piece and much like you and Rodney, although

you guys were much different, the things that mattered were the same.

You know, those core values and in your ambitions as, uh, you know,

together as a team, which wanted to do, um, we went about it in different

ways and sounds like you and Rodney similarly, but we had those core values

together.

So when you, when you look at that, the dynamic of that team, obviously

you guys figured out how to win your first race and then you kept going.

So when you look at the dynamic of the team, was it always Chad pushing

the team or, and, and you, or when would you interject to, to be, okay,

I don't like this.

And, and I assumed that was probably somewhat hard with Chad sometimes.

And it would lead to a heated conversation.

He was good.

I'm sorry.

He was the bad cop.

I was a good cop within the team.

And exactly how I would envision that, by the way, he did so much

pushing that I didn't, I didn't need to, but I

knew the way he pushed others, he expected that for me.

And I felt like, um, I needed to take some stress off of him.

And I made sure that I had my shit together and that that was, you

know, the responsibility I took in hand.

He'd nudge me occasionally, occasionally, um, and you know, and

there were certainly moments where it got heated and Rick would

have to get involved, but the, the great thing and for so long,

it was never personal.

And it was also funny because when somebody says, you know,

I'm really, how would it go?

Um, when there's always that butt, like somebody says, you know,

I really like what you did, but Chad always had that butt that he

would throw in and, uh, our, our pressure in, in what we put on

each other was fine until maybe two or three years left in, in our run.

And it became personal.

Like I, I was afraid and frustrated that my career wasn't winding

down the way that I wanted it to Chad the same.

And so where we were always aligned and never kind of personally

attacked each other, we started to indirectly.

It wasn't something that we intended to do, but it became personal

and that eroded away at our, um, our success more than anything.

And then eventually Rick separated us.

Yeah.

And I think when you, when you look at that run, you go

and you win the seventh championship, which was probably at

the end of the, the moments that you're talking about,

because I don't, when you look at that, the end of that year,

I don't know that anybody really expected you guys to go out

and, and, and win that championship.

Shoot, even that night, yeah, we were the fourth best, uh, playoff

car there, you know, and the circumstances developed for us.

Yeah.

So you go and you win that last championship and then you

have the, the last three years, um, I think the last race

you won was at Dover and Dover 17.

Yeah.

And, and then you go through that last three years.

What, I mean, that's like night and day from where you started

the run you guys went on.

What was that time period like just for you personally and, and

going through what was kind of a rebuilding process.

It seemed like at Hendrick in general.

Yeah.

And, and just what, what was that like to, to experience

that those last few years based upon everything that you

guys accomplished before that?

Yeah.

I mean, it was tough to say the least, um, you know,

change is always difficult.

I wanted to have my entire tenure with Chad at the helm,

but it was just getting toxic and tough and not only taking

a toll on us, but, you know, our trusted staff around us.

Cliff Daniels was, uh, our first engineer and he tapped

out and said, Hey, you know, I don't like this environment

and headspace.

I'm going to go do, uh, sim work for Hendrick Motorsports.

It came off the road.

You know, so we had, we had a lot changing around us.

Yeah.

And, you know, then Chad and I are separated.

Um, Kevin, Mendarin and I start the season together.

We just weren't gelling as we needed to.

Um, Cliff comes in and I could see when, when Cliff came in,

I grew up in a certain, uh, kind of system and Cliff, Cliff is

that guy and I needed that, that pressure from Cliff.

And in all that being said, those, there were a lot of

great learning moments in that.

But when the 29th, yeah, 2020 season started, I just knew

that my fire had gone out in a long ways.

And I just, I just couldn't go any further.

And I knew that Cliff was going to build the team that I

wanted, the team that I could win an eighth championship with,

but I just didn't have it in me anymore.

Yeah.

And I think that's the, I'll never forget this.

And we sat down to have our pre season meeting in 2015

after we won the championship.

And we, we talked about our goals for the year.

And the first comment that I said was, how do we do what

Jimmy Johnson and Chad Knauz have done and not lay an egg the

next year, because you talk about the, the motivation and

things that it takes to keep going in that fire.

But I was, I didn't want to be embarrassed of, of going

out in 15 and saying, Oh yeah, they won the championship

last year and now they can't, can't be competitive

again. I just, I don't, I don't know how many of those

conversations or what motivated you.

I can't believe what you guys did, but the motivation that

it takes to win on a weekly basis in the cup series.

And I talk about it on here all the time about the

younger guys not being able to manage their time and

motivate themselves in order to put together 38 weeks.

You guys put together 36, 38 weeks for a number of years.

That takes a toll on you and you just, you just talked

about that toll that it takes when you finally said, okay,

I'm to the point where I've lost a little bit of fire.

Don't know that, that I want to do this at that level

anymore because I've already done everything that I can do

in one seven championships and 83 races and all those

things. How do you turn a switch and say, I want to

go race in any car?

What motivated me all those years was fear and fear, fear

of failing, fear of waking up some day and it was a

dream. The fear that started all of this was the fear

to be employed, right?

When we're teenagers, how do I eat?

Like everything in my career has been driven by fear

and that just takes a toll on you.

And when I stepped away, I didn't want to be driven

by that anymore.

I didn't like kind of who I was becoming in the way my

headspace was during the course of a season and

living through those moments.

Kids really helped define that.

I'd realize and see, man, I just did handle that

rider. I wouldn't think and ride my head, wouldn't

write whatever it was.

So when I went into car racing, you know, that

was the dream when I was a kid.

And I'm like, you know, my give a ship meters

broke, like I don't care.

And I'm not driven by fear anymore.

I want to enjoy one opportunity.

And that's why I just kind of ignored, you know, the

challenge that I had ahead of myself and committed

to just went to go have fun.

Yeah. And I think when I look at it, you know, just

from the outside looking in, I'm glad you said that

because I've always just sat here and I'm like,

okay, one of the greatest NASCAR drivers of all

time.

You went through the last three years of now I

know where you were mentally and I look at

it. I'm like, do you, you didn't worry about

your legacy.

You wanted to go have fun because Jamie McMurray

said this a couple of weeks ago on here.

He said the biggest thing that he regrets is

he didn't have fun and enjoy what was, what was

special about his childhood dream, being

able to live that out.

And that's, am I hearing that?

You're absolutely out of your, out of your

thought process.

And it's not a poor me thing by any stretch.

Like I, and I know you've experienced this

as well and it sounds like Jamie got into this

headspace too.

Very blessed and thankful that I've had this

career path, but it's really driven by fear,

fear of failure, fear of mistakes, all these

different elements, and you do lose the fun

in there somewhere.

And, and that's what I'm still trying to do

now and why I'm still hopping in a car.

And I know it's not great for my statistics

and there are a lot of other ways to look

at it, but I just want to have fun.

Yeah.

And, and when you, did you have fun racing

in the car?

I did at the end of the second year, I

started to get serious again.

And I had Carvana eager and ready and on

board to sign up for a third year.

Gnasi was hopeful I was coming back and

expecting me to come back.

And I got to that point again, where I was

being too serious about it and a little

critical on myself and didn't like my

headspace and took a step away.

That was it.

So now you've, you've ventured into,

you get done with the Indy car thing

a couple of years, kind of off, right?

Yep.

And then you decide, and now, now you're

back on the team ownership side, back

in the car, what was the motivation?

Did you miss any piece of, of what was

happening?

Why, why come back and do the team

owner thing?

I missed it for sure.

Missed the people in the, there's

just a feeling of being in this industry.

And as I was racing the Indy car and

spending time with, with CGR, there

was an opportunity there to, to maybe

control and run the 48 car and CGR and

have ownership there.

And as I look closer at it, as much

fun as I was having, and as interesting

as it was the financial piece without

having a charter system.

And it just, it just seemed like a tough

road to hoe.

Yeah.

I'm not sure I've picked an easier

road to hoe here with, with NASCAR

and how complicated this is, but from

a business opportunity that the NASCAR

space made sense for a lot of reasons.

Yeah.

And I think when you retired, you

retired from driving and now you've

taken on a team ownership role, would

you classify it as a 24 seven job?

I think it is.

Yeah.

What, what's running through my mind

right now is when you owned your team

and seeing you and you laughed at

me and how stressed you guys were.

I laughed at you and now here I am

sitting in the seat.

You laughed at me for a number of

years.

He's like, I don't understand why

you would want to torture yourself

like that.

And, and now it's such a good job

at it too.

It's so hard.

You guys, you must have worked

countless hours.

I appreciate that.

And, and, and I think that for me,

the biggest challenge with, or the

thing that I liked the most about

the team ownership side was the

challenge of pushing the pieces

around and then getting to the

racetrack and saying, I did it

better than them.

We're competing against Hendrick

Motorsports.

We're competing against all these

teams that have done it for a

long time.

And, and, you know, now I look

at your team and you've, you've

been involved for a while now,

but it seems like the performance

is starting to shift into the

right direction.

Yeah.

Is, is that a fair assessment?

It is.

And it's been an evolution, you

know, so thankful.

Mori Gallagher had an open mind

and brought me in, you know, as

the minority owner and not, of

not having to troll the company

for a while.

You know, there's only so much

that I could do and Mori's

philosophy and the way he

likes to bootstrap stuff and

make it happen, you know, he

won a race with like 65

employees.

He won a cup race with Eric

Jones in that first year of the

next gen car.

But as it's evolved and moved

along, you know, it's just a

much different environment for a

two car team and headcount

and resources and all the

different elements.

So when he fatigued and, and

brought this opportunity to

me to kind of fast track my

position, of course, I jumped

at it and been very thankful

for the opportunity.

We've done a lot of evolving

and growing since Knighthead

Capital came in as a investor

and partner in the team and

headcounts gone up.

Our technology is increasing our

resources and we're getting

there.

We still have a long way to go.

As you so well know, it's all

about people, all about people

and our recruiting window last

year went well, we're running

better this year.

That recruitment window is going

to open soon and there's just

a cycle here that we're

working through.

So what's been what's been

the most surprising thing that

you've had to deal with just

that you didn't expect.

Is it the time?

Is it the money people?

What's been the thing that

you probably misread?

When you got involved from the

ownership side.

How slow change really

takes place?

It's a big, big shift to turn.

Yes.

And I think in today's

in today's world, it's probably

hard to change the people.

And even if you have all the

money in the world without the

right people, like you're

saying, it's it's impossible.

So you're still driving some

races.

Yep. Do you have any more this

year? No more this year.

No more this year.

Okay. So

do you think that's helped you

understand just what they're

talking about in the in the

meetings and has it helped

you as as an owner?

Yes, it has.

I have a better appreciation for

what the drivers are

experiencing and just how

subtle I mean, you hear the

guys drop the back a half

around and all of a sudden

car picks up three tents.

I'm like, there's no way

that's what happens.

And then I feel it.

I'm like, well, they're

right.

But with that being said, I

have had far less time in the

competition group than I have

in the business ops group.

Just the need to generate

revenue and to help steer

and run and operate the

company.

I've just have had more time

there, which has been

interesting. What eats money?

It does. It's a it's a money

eating machine is a hungry

beast. You get behind on that

part of it. You're in big

trouble. The lights go out.

The lights go out and the

performance goes down.

And I think, you know, from

from the driving standpoint,

I look at part

of what your success was

in the gen six car and the

previous generations when you

were at at Hendrick Motorsports

was car control.

And I look at

the first few races that you

did in the next gen car.

It's an angry beast.

It is when it when it decides

to get sideways, you don't you

don't try to save it.

You wreck it. And I watch

Kyle Bush and that was always

his strength

was being able to go past

that capability.

What was the

is that a fair assessment of

the next gen car?

And what do you think

of the car and where it is

today?

Yeah, it is a fair assessment.

It's interesting being an

owner and the

the way you look at your

bottom line and understand

that a spec car, you know,

the way I look at it, it's

kind of a soft cap that we

have in the sport. There's

only so many chassis we can

have only so many parts and

pieces you can buy.

So it does provide

help. And I don't think I would

be a team owner if we didn't

have this this combination,

the setup of a spec car.

I would like to see some changes.

You know, I think a car that

gains side force in Yaw

is is a better car, one that

drives better, more

interesting and puts on a better

show. This car does not do

that. Yeah. But to make those

changes in the way

you'll have to all three

OEMs have to submit when

tunnel time, all the expenses

that go with it. I know it's a

slow moving machine.

The other thing that I would

like to consider is a taller

sidewall on the cars.

The lower profile sidewall, I

think takes a lot of the feel

out of it and being able to

slide it and understand it.

But with all that said, these

a lot of these drivers have

never experienced anything

else. And certainly the next

generation that's coming in and

you watch these guys exploit

it and go fast.

And, you know, so it's

wild how evolution just

continues to move.

And, you know, the things

that I've always looked for, I

mean, you can't make and go.

You can chase Elliott had a

conversation with him and

Richmond Saturday night.

And he's like, man, you just

it's not like it used to be.

You can't drive the same.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that

when you when you talk about

the young guys, they don't

know what they don't know.

Right. And I think that's

why you see some of these

guys that have come in and

it's kind of flipped the

who's competitive really

has of the puzzle and the

approach from the teams has

been different. I think that

the this car has changed

the dynamic of every aspect

of of what you raise.

So as you go into the future,

are you going to run more

races as you go into next year?

And yeah, I would like to.

I am finding that I am more

impactful for the business

side of the house out of the

car and in the suite or in

our hospitality area with our

sponsors.

Yeah. And the biggest

thing that stood out to me

last year, I ran the season

finale in Phoenix and had

meetings with Toyota scheduled

on Friday and Saturday.

They had some issues, couldn't

get to town. I couldn't have

my meetings.

The executive group is

walking down the grid as I'm

getting ready to climb in the

car.

I'm like, I should be in the

suite right now.

And I'm climbing in this car to

go slide around.

They want to they want to have

the meeting on Pit Road.

And the next thing you know,

you're you're worried about

you're worried about things

that are not anything

to do with with driving.

But, you know, I think

I'm happy that that's your

in the NASCAR garage.

You're you're a part

of the sport because it's

not fair to have

a seven time champion not

in there all the time.

When you look at Dale

Senior and you look at Richard

Petty, I mean, you guys are in

an elite group.

And one thing

that and I've talked about

this for for a number of years,

you were winning the most races.

You'd won.

Didn't matter at that time.

You'd won four, five, six

championships whenever I've

talked about this in the past.

I always felt like in in a

sport, in other sports,

the most one of the most

popular guys is always

the guy that's winning the most.

When you look back at

your situation with yourself,

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

and Jeff Gordon, do you

ever do you ever wonder

why that dynamic didn't

didn't always trend

that way for you?

Because for me, it was very

confusing as to

and I look at it now.

I mean, Dale, Jr. is is

obviously what he is

from a popularity standpoint

because of his name

and his success and the things

that he did.

But I always found that dynamic

very interesting.

Do you ever did you ever think

about it that way or am I

just looking in at things that

I should just keep out of?

No, you're you're right.

You're definitely onto

something and you were years

ago when we'd have these chats

and you publicly spoke about

it as well.

You know, I don't I didn't

have maybe the environment that

Jeff had with Dale

in that passing of the torch

or whatever that moment

was the timing was was

incredible.

Junior, you know, sure, the

last name, but the more

I spend time around him

and watch what he and Kelly

are doing.

They're smart. They are very

intentional. They are working

their asses off to in this

process.

And when I reflect on

myself, I

I had infrastructure, but

all my infrastructure focused

on was doing

the bare minimum outside of the

car so I could do the maximum

inside of the car.

And now as I own a race team

and realize

the worth of the JJ brand,

I haven't done a good job like

really blowing that up

and leaning into it.

I've done a job. It's there,

but it could be far greater.

I walk around at Richmond the

other day. There are seven

time shirts for Dale,

for Richard, all this

all these other aspects of

licensing.

I have nothing there.

It's my fault. Like I just

haven't been working on me

working on other things.

So but that's the advantage of

being the team owner at the

racetrack.

Correct. And recognizing your

brand and almost

almost now you're in

there almost rebuilding it

differently. Right. Yeah.

And that's that's the part that

I'm really excited about right

now is I

want to build a motor sports

property would like to see

motor club.

I feel like there is a way to

not be exactly like a stick

and ball franchise, but there

are many aspects that

can be.

And motor sports,

you know, it's it's a

lifestyle.

And there is a lifestyle

branding opportunity that's here

for legacy.

But I and before

I really get there, I've got to

make sure that my legacy

and my brand is where it needs

to be to then have it spill

over into the company.

And so that's the journey that

I'm on right now. Yeah.

And I'm finally seeing it because

I'm on the other side and seeing

it on the other side. And I

think that many of us look back

on what you could have done

different. But that doesn't

matter anymore.

If you learn from it and you

grow with it because then

there's when you get out of

the car.

If you really want to have a

brand, you have to work at it

as hard as you did when you

started at driving.

So true. And it's

it's probably difficult

from your standpoint because

of the fact that you won so

much and you had so many

obligations and so the

sponsorship time was so much

not so much.

I mean, we would leave on a

Wednesday. You'd go to an

appearance and then you'd go

Thursday and you'd get to the

track.

And so I think that that's

that's a pretty interesting

perspective of an

insight from what you've

done. What's wild is I

wake up now

as excited as I did as a

25 year old going to work at

Hendrick.

But I'm doing all these things

that I was irritated with

before. And I never thought I

wanted to be an owner. I didn't

want to build a brand. I just

wanted to drive.

And it's wild to have this

affirmation that

I am doing the right thing

and to have this excitement

about the sport that I know

and love so much.

So I'm really energized

and feel like I'm 20

again through all this.

Well, that's pretty awesome.

I'm glad you're having fun

because that's really what we're

supposed to do when we retire.

Right. And I tell people I

retired from driving.

I didn't retire from working

because I enjoy the business

aspect of it as well.

A couple more questions.

If you had to pick one race

through your career, what was

what was that favorite race?

Favorite race.

I have to say my first win

at California.

The

hometown, you know, home track,

I guess is probably a better way

to say it.

We're on two tires.

Kurt Busch is stalking us

and it had a better car

throughout the day. We ran

well, but he's back there

stalking us.

And like

seeing the white, I'll never

forget the feeling and the

tingles. Like, don't screw this

up. Get it around, get it

around, come down the front

straight away.

I had family there

and around and also knew

that I

was going to have a job and stay

employed.

And all these different layers

that were just like unreal.

Well, when you talk about

California Speedway, that was

my second go around with you

at California Speedway was more

it was more exciting than the

first go around when you

when I didn't win the race.

So I got to know as I

guess it was 2011, I think it

was when when we raced there

coming to the checkered flag.

What were you thinking down the

back straight away?

I pushed you all the way down

the back straight away.

What were you did you think I

was going to keep pushing you?

Or how did what did you do?

Remember that thought? Yeah, yeah.

OK, I remember the push

because this is one of my favorite

moments because of I got to

race with you and it was rare

that I got to beat you like that.

I couldn't believe I left enough

space up there from where I was

sitting because you had me

going there faster than I wanted

to. And I thought I

slid up enough to take the top

because you're rolling the top.

Yeah. And then I heard outside.

I'm like, there's no way.

Well, that was a pretty special

moment because for me personally,

California Speedway and

being able to to know the success

that you guys had and that was just

two California kids totally going

at it. So that was Bakersfield

from there. It's about an hour

and a half. OK, so you're probably

closer than

what I was to see Diego.

Yeah. So I mean, oh, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. So for sure closer.

But the home track for me was

kind of the opposite because you

won so much there and it was

every time we were in position to

do anything there went wrong.

So it was.

But that was a pretty cool moment

in one of those moments where he

was the first one.

Right. Yeah. The horseshoe.

Yeah. That was funny.

And and I think that the second

my second favorite, Jimmy

Johnson, Johnson moment was

two thousand and fourteen.

I'm sitting in the lounge and I

remember it was like it was

yesterday. We were struggling in

practice.

Side door of the trailer opens up

and here he comes in, eat an

apple, sits down on a couch.

What can I do to help you guys?

And it was, well, you need to

pull the side out.

You need to do this. This is what

my car is doing.

Finishes Apple threw it in the

trash can, walked out and said,

if you need anything else, let

me know. So that was

really the beginning of the

Stuart Haas, the first year of

the Stuart Haas alliance that we

had with with Hendrick.

And obviously that got a little

more combative

as as it went through the years

that Chad was not happy with

totally with all those things

that were that were happening

with with Stuart Haas at that

time. But those were two of my

favorite memories that we that

we had that we can talk about.

Yeah, exactly. This show.

I'll never forget walking through

the transporters as we all have

our little, you know, alleys to

see around.

And I knew you guys were

struggling.

And I just want to pop and

make sure that headspace was

good. Like, yeah.

Wasn't one.

Yes. Yeah.

Noticed.

Yeah. One thing that I

realized in

having a chance at those

multiple championships

through them all, there still

was the same amount of anxiety

and stress.

And then I also realized that my

competitors all had that same

anxiety and stress.

And that was my goal was to share

like, hey, you might be having a

bad day. But I promise you, they're

just as freaked out, even if

they're having a good day.

Yeah. And I think that the other

the other thing that I'm learning

today is we're all more similar

in the in the enjoying

it part of of what we do.

We work our whole life and dream

about getting there.

And then you're just frustrated

and and so ingrained

in the competition side that you

lose side of the fun parts.

And I think that's that's

something for the young guys to

take from this conversation.

But last question,

what was your first car that you

drove on the street?

I had a 1986

Ford Ranger pickup truck.

OK.

Yep.

Just standard pickup truck

because this sounds a lot like

McMurray too.

He's like it was the most

boring.

No, mine had a little on it.

It was a black truck, had a

little lift,

of course, a stick shift.

And seeing Diego, you needed

something with a little bit of

lift and go out in the desert

and bomb around.

And also, there were a lot of

dirt roads where I grew up in

the rural area in El Cajon.

So I needed something I could

rip around on some roads.

Yeah. Did you did you wreck it?

Sell it? No, I sold it to a

buddy.

I was racing a little off road

buggies. So I had

some money and bought my first

truck before I turned 16 and

had to sit in the driveway and

I like wax it and wash it once

a week.

But my dad had a great piece

of advice.

I was starting to drive for

Chevrolet and he said you should

put some big blue oval stickers

on this thing and park it right

at the front of the test sessions.

I'm like, why would I do that?

I hide it in the back.

He's like, because it'll give you

a free truck, you're not going

to drive for Chevy.

And I was like, damn, dad, that's

perfect. So I parked

it right at the front of the test

and a week later, I had a new

Chevy truck. That's awesome.

Well, thanks for taking the time.

I know that that you're busy,

but it's fun to catch up.

Great to catch up.

We appreciate the background. We

could probably do this for three

or four hours.

Thank you.

Buick Grand National

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