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Jimmie Johnson Interview
Jimmie Johnson Interview
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About this episode
Kevin Harvick chats with seven-time NASCAR champion Jimmie Johnson about his racing journey from off-road roots to Hendrick Motorsports, the intense dynamic with crew chief Chad Knaus, and the challenges of maintaining motivation after immense success. Johnson reflects on the toll of fear-driven competition, his transition into team ownership, and the evolving NASCAR landscape with the Next Gen car. They also share memorable race moments and discuss the importance of balancing fun and pressure in a demanding sport.
Topics:
jimmie johnson career
hendrick motorsports
chad knaus relationship
motivation and fear
team ownership
next gen car
west coast racing
racing legacy
favorite races
driver mindset
Cars:
Buick Grand National
Kevin Harvick sits down with fellow NASCAR legend Jimmie Johnson for a wide-ranging conversation. The two West Coast natives reflect on their roots in racing, revisit Jimmie’s historic run of seven Cup Series championships, and share stories from their famous on-track battles. Jimmie also opens up about his relationship with former crew chief Chad Knaus, life as an owner with Legacy Motor Club, and the lessons he’s learned running a team—and how that perspective has changed the way he sees the sport. From the evolution of NASCAR and the challenges of the Next Gen car to memories only two veterans can share, this is an episode fans won’t want to miss.
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Jimmie Johnson Joins The Show!
3:29 - Becoming A Pro Driver
7:40 - Relationship with Chad Knaus
15:58 - INDYCAR Transition
29:03 - Branding After Retirement
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Buick Grand National
"...ons to make it the cup. And so off-road ASA, Bush Grand National. And one of the toughest things for me to do was ..."
- Intro
- Jimmie Johnson Joins The Show!
- Becoming A Pro Driver
- Relationship with Chad Knaus
- INDYCAR Transition
- Branding After Retirement
Select text to request an explanation
First Atlanta race, I was able to run on the lead lap and finish in the top five.
That light bulb went off.
How do we do what Jimmy Johnson and Chad Knauss have done and not lay an egg?
What motivated me all those years was fear.
When I stepped away, I didn't want to be driven by that anymore.
It was rare that I got to beat you like that.
You know, I'm the ballparker.
You know I'm the ballparker.
You know I'm the ballparker.
What a race!
California's Kevin Harvick's coming!
Kevin Harvick's coming!
Welcome to Kevin Harvick's happy hour presented by
NASCAR on Fox and today we have the seven-time NASCAR Cup Series champ, Jimmy Johnson.
Thanks for taking the time.
Yeah, glad to be here, man.
Yeah, I've had this one circled because it's fun to be able to go back and you came
up at the exact time period that I did and being able to go through racing during
that time, we got to race against so many cool generations of old, new, of all the
things that it was, but just talk about where you started and when in seven
championships.
That can't be what you thought when you when you started racing.
No, not even close and you know as we were coming up through the ranks together, we had
plenty of conversations around like the dream and what it could look like and I couldn't
even dream this big.
So it's been a wild ride and much like you growing up on the West Coast, being
surrounded by motorsports in the different forms of racing, the different heroes
that came along from dirt to two-wheels, four-wheels, asphalt, whatever it might
be.
I just grew up in a racing family.
My dad loved racing, loves racing, very mechanically inclined.
My mom even raced three-wheelers back in the day like grandparents in a motorcycle
store and so to have to grow up in that area and have the deserts nearby, the
rivers, the lakes, it didn't matter if it was summer or winter, we were on
something that was motorized and that really gave me a great base to go
racing from.
And I think I think when you when you come to North Carolina and you might
think about this different, but when I came to North Carolina, people, we were
fortunate that we were in a time when the Cup Series was looking for the
next young drivers and but even when I go back now, it feels to me like they
don't take West Coast racing as serious as what somebody who did grew up
there.
Right.
And it really pisses me off.
It really makes me mad because when I grew up in racing, you could race anywhere,
anything, anytime if you wanted to go a couple hours in any direction.
And I think that a lot of people get the misperception of what West Coast
racing is because there's a lot of gear heads in California.
Am I thinking of that different than what you would?
No, I absolutely agree.
And I feel like your journey, my journey, certainly Jeff Gordon kind of
started that.
I didn't think somebody like Tony Stewart was helpful because he came from a
different background or an Irvin, you know, I feel like we keep knocking
down barriers, but still today and even being, you know, on the East Coast
as a team owner for whatever reason that West Coast seems so far away
and I'm not as connected as I should be and need to be.
Yeah.
And I think even NASCAR, they've struggled with trying to figure
out West Coast racing.
It's a different vibe, but a lot of hardcore racers.
So when we go back and we look at your racing background, where did all
that start to be able to lead?
I know this answer, but I know a lot of the fans want to hear it.
Where did it start to lead you to thinking that it might be able
to be a possibility to make a racing career out of it?
And I was determined in going back to my grade school and middle
school and high school that all my teachers shared papers and pulled
them out that it reminded me how determined I was.
The dream was always there, but it really all came together.
I would say in probably 95 is when it really came together.
And it was the combination of my relationship with Chevrolet and
the new relationship that was building with the Herzogs.
They were very successful in off-road racing, had been promised a lot by Ford and Dodge,
which none of those opportunities ever came together.
And I had some Chevrolet backing that I could bring to them.
And I was doing television and doing pit road reporting for ESPN in the
Midwest, this off-road series, and got to know them.
And I knew who they were, but found out that they had these kind of broken
promises from these other manufacturers and kind of raised my hand and said,
hey, I could bring Chevy.
And sure enough, everything came together.
And they thankfully had the same ambitions to make it the cup.
And so off-road ASA, Bush Grand National.
And one of the toughest things for me to do was to go to them and
say, hey, I've got an opportunity with Hendrick because they
invested tens of millions of dollars in me and so much time.
But like the great, sadly we've lost both Stan and Randy now.
But they both supported me and said, you've got to take that opportunity.
Yeah, well, it's great when you find a group of people that believe in what you do and
support and then you build that relationship.
And always those tough decisions are hard.
But you talk about going to Hendrick Motorsports and I think it's pretty
well known that Jeff Gordon was behind you and saw the car that you were
driving at one of the Bush series races and recognized the car control.
I could have gone so wrong through a big slider on them at Michigan.
And if I collected them and had no chance, I would have got the ride.
But thankfully I just cleared them.
Well, it worked out.
It worked out.
And but talk about that transition of going from the Herzogs.
You had, I would consider a family owned.
It was a family owned team that was trying to find their way.
You had Crazy Rambo working on the car and trying to figure things out.
And then boom, you go to Rick Hendrick and Hendrick Motorsports.
And what was that transition like to go from a family owned team to
the organization like Hendrick had?
It was a big shock to say the least.
And I ran three races in 2001 and the team was still kind of coming together.
We didn't have our full-time crew chief.
The manhouse was actually the crew chief for me.
Really?
Those three races, which was really cool.
I didn't really go for it, yeah.
But man, I think my best finish was like two laps down in 26th.
And so that 01 year was like, wow, this isn't just a step up.
This is five or 10 steps up to go cup racing.
So I was pretty, pretty worried.
And that worked very well because during the off season,
once we had Chad in place, you know, I just dug in and
leaned on the system that is Hendrick and wore Jeff Gordon out over ideas,
notes, how he drives.
And he didn't really even have notes going at that point in time.
But I was extracting all this stuff and making my own.
And man, I'll never forget the first Atlanta race, which was,
I don't know, second or third race of the season.
I was able to run on the lead lap and finish in the top five.
And I was like, this place is tough.
I ran around, you know, Mark Barton all day long.
I finished in the top five.
I was like, I'm going to be okay.
And that light bulb went off just to continue to lean on the Hendrick system
and have them keep teaching me.
So you mentioned Chad Canales.
Was he intense right from day one?
From day one.
Okay.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah.
And when you look at that relationship, you know, I know you pretty well.
I mean, you're a pretty calm, cool guy.
And he's pretty high strung, straightforward and demanding, you know,
from the outside looking in and the things that, that I've been,
I guess the balance is what made it because I feel like Rodney and myself
were the opposite.
He was the calm, cool, collected guy.
And it just worked because I didn't want to offend him,
but I wanted to do everything that he said.
And I didn't want to do anything dumb to make him mad.
Like I did the previous 13 years as I, as I went through my time at RCR.
So that dynamic obviously worked one, seven championships and, you know,
83 races.
So it obviously worked, but from the very beginning,
he was just the hard ass that, that came in to, to motivate and push you.
He was, uh, more than anything, he had a big chip on his shoulder.
He, uh, I think he was a frustrated driver that ended up being a crew chief.
So you have that, that element.
I did not even know he drove.
Yeah.
He, he wanted to be.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you, did you hear the story where he backed Stacey Compton's,
I think it was the Melling team that Stacey was driving for and Chad was crew
chief and they were at Milwaukee and Chad was convinced that the car should have
gone faster or one of the changes should have made a bigger difference.
Something happened and Chad's like, get out.
I'm getting in.
He jumped in the car and backed it in the fence, turned it into Milwaukee and
had to call the Melling's and tell them, oh, by the way, we crashed.
I go, oh, that's fine.
You know, Stacey.
Okay.
Well, actually I was driving the car.
It wasn't Stacey.
So did he ever drive your car?
Ever.
Ever.
He finally gave up.
Yep.
Yep.
That's funny.
So there was that piece, which was a funny, a funny undercurrent between he and
I that I, I could torture him on, but it was really never a public thing.
But, you know, he, he wanted to be a crew chief in the way Ray hired him.
One of the reasons Ray liked him so much was he sat across the desk from Ray
and said, look, I want your job someday.
That's why I'm here and what I want to do.
And so when he left the 24 car and try to pursue his crew chiefing
job, our career, you know, he had these failures along the way that just made
that chip more pronounced on his shoulder.
And when he got back to Hendrick, he knew it was his chance in his time.
I certainly had my own chip on my shoulder in a different way where, you know,
I got a couple of little later than most.
It was 25, 26 of my rookie year.
I knew I was going to have one shot.
Um, and I really felt like one year, if I didn't perform that first year,
I thought, you know, Hendrick would move on.
Um, and so we had that common piece and much like you and Rodney, although
you guys were much different, the things that mattered were the same.
You know, those core values and in your ambitions as, uh, you know,
together as a team, which wanted to do, um, we went about it in different
ways and sounds like you and Rodney similarly, but we had those core values
together.
So when you, when you look at that, the dynamic of that team, obviously
you guys figured out how to win your first race and then you kept going.
So when you look at the dynamic of the team, was it always Chad pushing
the team or, and, and you, or when would you interject to, to be, okay,
I don't like this.
And, and I assumed that was probably somewhat hard with Chad sometimes.
And it would lead to a heated conversation.
He was good.
I'm sorry.
He was the bad cop.
I was a good cop within the team.
And exactly how I would envision that, by the way, he did so much
pushing that I didn't, I didn't need to, but I
knew the way he pushed others, he expected that for me.
And I felt like, um, I needed to take some stress off of him.
And I made sure that I had my shit together and that that was, you
know, the responsibility I took in hand.
He'd nudge me occasionally, occasionally, um, and you know, and
there were certainly moments where it got heated and Rick would
have to get involved, but the, the great thing and for so long,
it was never personal.
And it was also funny because when somebody says, you know,
I'm really, how would it go?
Um, when there's always that butt, like somebody says, you know,
I really like what you did, but Chad always had that butt that he
would throw in and, uh, our, our pressure in, in what we put on
each other was fine until maybe two or three years left in, in our run.
And it became personal.
Like I, I was afraid and frustrated that my career wasn't winding
down the way that I wanted it to Chad the same.
And so where we were always aligned and never kind of personally
attacked each other, we started to indirectly.
It wasn't something that we intended to do, but it became personal
and that eroded away at our, um, our success more than anything.
And then eventually Rick separated us.
Yeah.
And I think when you, when you look at that run, you go
and you win the seventh championship, which was probably at
the end of the, the moments that you're talking about,
because I don't, when you look at that, the end of that year,
I don't know that anybody really expected you guys to go out
and, and, and win that championship.
Shoot, even that night, yeah, we were the fourth best, uh, playoff
car there, you know, and the circumstances developed for us.
Yeah.
So you go and you win that last championship and then you
have the, the last three years, um, I think the last race
you won was at Dover and Dover 17.
Yeah.
And, and then you go through that last three years.
What, I mean, that's like night and day from where you started
the run you guys went on.
What was that time period like just for you personally and, and
going through what was kind of a rebuilding process.
It seemed like at Hendrick in general.
Yeah.
And, and just what, what was that like to, to experience
that those last few years based upon everything that you
guys accomplished before that?
Yeah.
I mean, it was tough to say the least, um, you know,
change is always difficult.
I wanted to have my entire tenure with Chad at the helm,
but it was just getting toxic and tough and not only taking
a toll on us, but, you know, our trusted staff around us.
Cliff Daniels was, uh, our first engineer and he tapped
out and said, Hey, you know, I don't like this environment
and headspace.
I'm going to go do, uh, sim work for Hendrick Motorsports.
It came off the road.
You know, so we had, we had a lot changing around us.
Yeah.
And, you know, then Chad and I are separated.
Um, Kevin, Mendarin and I start the season together.
We just weren't gelling as we needed to.
Um, Cliff comes in and I could see when, when Cliff came in,
I grew up in a certain, uh, kind of system and Cliff, Cliff is
that guy and I needed that, that pressure from Cliff.
And in all that being said, those, there were a lot of
great learning moments in that.
But when the 29th, yeah, 2020 season started, I just knew
that my fire had gone out in a long ways.
And I just, I just couldn't go any further.
And I knew that Cliff was going to build the team that I
wanted, the team that I could win an eighth championship with,
but I just didn't have it in me anymore.
Yeah.
And I think that's the, I'll never forget this.
And we sat down to have our pre season meeting in 2015
after we won the championship.
And we, we talked about our goals for the year.
And the first comment that I said was, how do we do what
Jimmy Johnson and Chad Knauz have done and not lay an egg the
next year, because you talk about the, the motivation and
things that it takes to keep going in that fire.
But I was, I didn't want to be embarrassed of, of going
out in 15 and saying, Oh yeah, they won the championship
last year and now they can't, can't be competitive
again. I just, I don't, I don't know how many of those
conversations or what motivated you.
I can't believe what you guys did, but the motivation that
it takes to win on a weekly basis in the cup series.
And I talk about it on here all the time about the
younger guys not being able to manage their time and
motivate themselves in order to put together 38 weeks.
You guys put together 36, 38 weeks for a number of years.
That takes a toll on you and you just, you just talked
about that toll that it takes when you finally said, okay,
I'm to the point where I've lost a little bit of fire.
Don't know that, that I want to do this at that level
anymore because I've already done everything that I can do
in one seven championships and 83 races and all those
things. How do you turn a switch and say, I want to
go race in any car?
What motivated me all those years was fear and fear, fear
of failing, fear of waking up some day and it was a
dream. The fear that started all of this was the fear
to be employed, right?
When we're teenagers, how do I eat?
Like everything in my career has been driven by fear
and that just takes a toll on you.
And when I stepped away, I didn't want to be driven
by that anymore.
I didn't like kind of who I was becoming in the way my
headspace was during the course of a season and
living through those moments.
Kids really helped define that.
I'd realize and see, man, I just did handle that
rider. I wouldn't think and ride my head, wouldn't
write whatever it was.
So when I went into car racing, you know, that
was the dream when I was a kid.
And I'm like, you know, my give a ship meters
broke, like I don't care.
And I'm not driven by fear anymore.
I want to enjoy one opportunity.
And that's why I just kind of ignored, you know, the
challenge that I had ahead of myself and committed
to just went to go have fun.
Yeah. And I think when I look at it, you know, just
from the outside looking in, I'm glad you said that
because I've always just sat here and I'm like,
okay, one of the greatest NASCAR drivers of all
time.
You went through the last three years of now I
know where you were mentally and I look at
it. I'm like, do you, you didn't worry about
your legacy.
You wanted to go have fun because Jamie McMurray
said this a couple of weeks ago on here.
He said the biggest thing that he regrets is
he didn't have fun and enjoy what was, what was
special about his childhood dream, being
able to live that out.
And that's, am I hearing that?
You're absolutely out of your, out of your
thought process.
And it's not a poor me thing by any stretch.
Like I, and I know you've experienced this
as well and it sounds like Jamie got into this
headspace too.
Very blessed and thankful that I've had this
career path, but it's really driven by fear,
fear of failure, fear of mistakes, all these
different elements, and you do lose the fun
in there somewhere.
And, and that's what I'm still trying to do
now and why I'm still hopping in a car.
And I know it's not great for my statistics
and there are a lot of other ways to look
at it, but I just want to have fun.
Yeah.
And, and when you, did you have fun racing
in the car?
I did at the end of the second year, I
started to get serious again.
And I had Carvana eager and ready and on
board to sign up for a third year.
Gnasi was hopeful I was coming back and
expecting me to come back.
And I got to that point again, where I was
being too serious about it and a little
critical on myself and didn't like my
headspace and took a step away.
That was it.
So now you've, you've ventured into,
you get done with the Indy car thing
a couple of years, kind of off, right?
Yep.
And then you decide, and now, now you're
back on the team ownership side, back
in the car, what was the motivation?
Did you miss any piece of, of what was
happening?
Why, why come back and do the team
owner thing?
I missed it for sure.
Missed the people in the, there's
just a feeling of being in this industry.
And as I was racing the Indy car and
spending time with, with CGR, there
was an opportunity there to, to maybe
control and run the 48 car and CGR and
have ownership there.
And as I look closer at it, as much
fun as I was having, and as interesting
as it was the financial piece without
having a charter system.
And it just, it just seemed like a tough
road to hoe.
Yeah.
I'm not sure I've picked an easier
road to hoe here with, with NASCAR
and how complicated this is, but from
a business opportunity that the NASCAR
space made sense for a lot of reasons.
Yeah.
And I think when you retired, you
retired from driving and now you've
taken on a team ownership role, would
you classify it as a 24 seven job?
I think it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What, what's running through my mind
right now is when you owned your team
and seeing you and you laughed at
me and how stressed you guys were.
I laughed at you and now here I am
sitting in the seat.
You laughed at me for a number of
years.
He's like, I don't understand why
you would want to torture yourself
like that.
And, and now it's such a good job
at it too.
It's so hard.
You guys, you must have worked
countless hours.
I appreciate that.
And, and, and I think that for me,
the biggest challenge with, or the
thing that I liked the most about
the team ownership side was the
challenge of pushing the pieces
around and then getting to the
racetrack and saying, I did it
better than them.
We're competing against Hendrick
Motorsports.
We're competing against all these
teams that have done it for a
long time.
And, and, you know, now I look
at your team and you've, you've
been involved for a while now,
but it seems like the performance
is starting to shift into the
right direction.
Yeah.
Is, is that a fair assessment?
It is.
And it's been an evolution, you
know, so thankful.
Mori Gallagher had an open mind
and brought me in, you know, as
the minority owner and not, of
not having to troll the company
for a while.
You know, there's only so much
that I could do and Mori's
philosophy and the way he
likes to bootstrap stuff and
make it happen, you know, he
won a race with like 65
employees.
He won a cup race with Eric
Jones in that first year of the
next gen car.
But as it's evolved and moved
along, you know, it's just a
much different environment for a
two car team and headcount
and resources and all the
different elements.
So when he fatigued and, and
brought this opportunity to
me to kind of fast track my
position, of course, I jumped
at it and been very thankful
for the opportunity.
We've done a lot of evolving
and growing since Knighthead
Capital came in as a investor
and partner in the team and
headcounts gone up.
Our technology is increasing our
resources and we're getting
there.
We still have a long way to go.
As you so well know, it's all
about people, all about people
and our recruiting window last
year went well, we're running
better this year.
That recruitment window is going
to open soon and there's just
a cycle here that we're
working through.
So what's been what's been
the most surprising thing that
you've had to deal with just
that you didn't expect.
Is it the time?
Is it the money people?
What's been the thing that
you probably misread?
When you got involved from the
ownership side.
How slow change really
takes place?
It's a big, big shift to turn.
Yes.
And I think in today's
in today's world, it's probably
hard to change the people.
And even if you have all the
money in the world without the
right people, like you're
saying, it's it's impossible.
So you're still driving some
races.
Yep. Do you have any more this
year? No more this year.
No more this year.
Okay. So
do you think that's helped you
understand just what they're
talking about in the in the
meetings and has it helped
you as as an owner?
Yes, it has.
I have a better appreciation for
what the drivers are
experiencing and just how
subtle I mean, you hear the
guys drop the back a half
around and all of a sudden
car picks up three tents.
I'm like, there's no way
that's what happens.
And then I feel it.
I'm like, well, they're
right.
But with that being said, I
have had far less time in the
competition group than I have
in the business ops group.
Just the need to generate
revenue and to help steer
and run and operate the
company.
I've just have had more time
there, which has been
interesting. What eats money?
It does. It's a it's a money
eating machine is a hungry
beast. You get behind on that
part of it. You're in big
trouble. The lights go out.
The lights go out and the
performance goes down.
And I think, you know, from
from the driving standpoint,
I look at part
of what your success was
in the gen six car and the
previous generations when you
were at at Hendrick Motorsports
was car control.
And I look at
the first few races that you
did in the next gen car.
It's an angry beast.
It is when it when it decides
to get sideways, you don't you
don't try to save it.
You wreck it. And I watch
Kyle Bush and that was always
his strength
was being able to go past
that capability.
What was the
is that a fair assessment of
the next gen car?
And what do you think
of the car and where it is
today?
Yeah, it is a fair assessment.
It's interesting being an
owner and the
the way you look at your
bottom line and understand
that a spec car, you know,
the way I look at it, it's
kind of a soft cap that we
have in the sport. There's
only so many chassis we can
have only so many parts and
pieces you can buy.
So it does provide
help. And I don't think I would
be a team owner if we didn't
have this this combination,
the setup of a spec car.
I would like to see some changes.
You know, I think a car that
gains side force in Yaw
is is a better car, one that
drives better, more
interesting and puts on a better
show. This car does not do
that. Yeah. But to make those
changes in the way
you'll have to all three
OEMs have to submit when
tunnel time, all the expenses
that go with it. I know it's a
slow moving machine.
The other thing that I would
like to consider is a taller
sidewall on the cars.
The lower profile sidewall, I
think takes a lot of the feel
out of it and being able to
slide it and understand it.
But with all that said, these
a lot of these drivers have
never experienced anything
else. And certainly the next
generation that's coming in and
you watch these guys exploit
it and go fast.
And, you know, so it's
wild how evolution just
continues to move.
And, you know, the things
that I've always looked for, I
mean, you can't make and go.
You can chase Elliott had a
conversation with him and
Richmond Saturday night.
And he's like, man, you just
it's not like it used to be.
You can't drive the same.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that
when you when you talk about
the young guys, they don't
know what they don't know.
Right. And I think that's
why you see some of these
guys that have come in and
it's kind of flipped the
who's competitive really
has of the puzzle and the
approach from the teams has
been different. I think that
the this car has changed
the dynamic of every aspect
of of what you raise.
So as you go into the future,
are you going to run more
races as you go into next year?
And yeah, I would like to.
I am finding that I am more
impactful for the business
side of the house out of the
car and in the suite or in
our hospitality area with our
sponsors.
Yeah. And the biggest
thing that stood out to me
last year, I ran the season
finale in Phoenix and had
meetings with Toyota scheduled
on Friday and Saturday.
They had some issues, couldn't
get to town. I couldn't have
my meetings.
The executive group is
walking down the grid as I'm
getting ready to climb in the
car.
I'm like, I should be in the
suite right now.
And I'm climbing in this car to
go slide around.
They want to they want to have
the meeting on Pit Road.
And the next thing you know,
you're you're worried about
you're worried about things
that are not anything
to do with with driving.
But, you know, I think
I'm happy that that's your
in the NASCAR garage.
You're you're a part
of the sport because it's
not fair to have
a seven time champion not
in there all the time.
When you look at Dale
Senior and you look at Richard
Petty, I mean, you guys are in
an elite group.
And one thing
that and I've talked about
this for for a number of years,
you were winning the most races.
You'd won.
Didn't matter at that time.
You'd won four, five, six
championships whenever I've
talked about this in the past.
I always felt like in in a
sport, in other sports,
the most one of the most
popular guys is always
the guy that's winning the most.
When you look back at
your situation with yourself,
Dale Earnhardt, Jr.
and Jeff Gordon, do you
ever do you ever wonder
why that dynamic didn't
didn't always trend
that way for you?
Because for me, it was very
confusing as to
and I look at it now.
I mean, Dale, Jr. is is
obviously what he is
from a popularity standpoint
because of his name
and his success and the things
that he did.
But I always found that dynamic
very interesting.
Do you ever did you ever think
about it that way or am I
just looking in at things that
I should just keep out of?
No, you're you're right.
You're definitely onto
something and you were years
ago when we'd have these chats
and you publicly spoke about
it as well.
You know, I don't I didn't
have maybe the environment that
Jeff had with Dale
in that passing of the torch
or whatever that moment
was the timing was was
incredible.
Junior, you know, sure, the
last name, but the more
I spend time around him
and watch what he and Kelly
are doing.
They're smart. They are very
intentional. They are working
their asses off to in this
process.
And when I reflect on
myself, I
I had infrastructure, but
all my infrastructure focused
on was doing
the bare minimum outside of the
car so I could do the maximum
inside of the car.
And now as I own a race team
and realize
the worth of the JJ brand,
I haven't done a good job like
really blowing that up
and leaning into it.
I've done a job. It's there,
but it could be far greater.
I walk around at Richmond the
other day. There are seven
time shirts for Dale,
for Richard, all this
all these other aspects of
licensing.
I have nothing there.
It's my fault. Like I just
haven't been working on me
working on other things.
So but that's the advantage of
being the team owner at the
racetrack.
Correct. And recognizing your
brand and almost
almost now you're in
there almost rebuilding it
differently. Right. Yeah.
And that's that's the part that
I'm really excited about right
now is I
want to build a motor sports
property would like to see
motor club.
I feel like there is a way to
not be exactly like a stick
and ball franchise, but there
are many aspects that
can be.
And motor sports,
you know, it's it's a
lifestyle.
And there is a lifestyle
branding opportunity that's here
for legacy.
But I and before
I really get there, I've got to
make sure that my legacy
and my brand is where it needs
to be to then have it spill
over into the company.
And so that's the journey that
I'm on right now. Yeah.
And I'm finally seeing it because
I'm on the other side and seeing
it on the other side. And I
think that many of us look back
on what you could have done
different. But that doesn't
matter anymore.
If you learn from it and you
grow with it because then
there's when you get out of
the car.
If you really want to have a
brand, you have to work at it
as hard as you did when you
started at driving.
So true. And it's
it's probably difficult
from your standpoint because
of the fact that you won so
much and you had so many
obligations and so the
sponsorship time was so much
not so much.
I mean, we would leave on a
Wednesday. You'd go to an
appearance and then you'd go
Thursday and you'd get to the
track.
And so I think that that's
that's a pretty interesting
perspective of an
insight from what you've
done. What's wild is I
wake up now
as excited as I did as a
25 year old going to work at
Hendrick.
But I'm doing all these things
that I was irritated with
before. And I never thought I
wanted to be an owner. I didn't
want to build a brand. I just
wanted to drive.
And it's wild to have this
affirmation that
I am doing the right thing
and to have this excitement
about the sport that I know
and love so much.
So I'm really energized
and feel like I'm 20
again through all this.
Well, that's pretty awesome.
I'm glad you're having fun
because that's really what we're
supposed to do when we retire.
Right. And I tell people I
retired from driving.
I didn't retire from working
because I enjoy the business
aspect of it as well.
A couple more questions.
If you had to pick one race
through your career, what was
what was that favorite race?
Favorite race.
I have to say my first win
at California.
The
hometown, you know, home track,
I guess is probably a better way
to say it.
We're on two tires.
Kurt Busch is stalking us
and it had a better car
throughout the day. We ran
well, but he's back there
stalking us.
And like
seeing the white, I'll never
forget the feeling and the
tingles. Like, don't screw this
up. Get it around, get it
around, come down the front
straight away.
I had family there
and around and also knew
that I
was going to have a job and stay
employed.
And all these different layers
that were just like unreal.
Well, when you talk about
California Speedway, that was
my second go around with you
at California Speedway was more
it was more exciting than the
first go around when you
when I didn't win the race.
So I got to know as I
guess it was 2011, I think it
was when when we raced there
coming to the checkered flag.
What were you thinking down the
back straight away?
I pushed you all the way down
the back straight away.
What were you did you think I
was going to keep pushing you?
Or how did what did you do?
Remember that thought? Yeah, yeah.
OK, I remember the push
because this is one of my favorite
moments because of I got to
race with you and it was rare
that I got to beat you like that.
I couldn't believe I left enough
space up there from where I was
sitting because you had me
going there faster than I wanted
to. And I thought I
slid up enough to take the top
because you're rolling the top.
Yeah. And then I heard outside.
I'm like, there's no way.
Well, that was a pretty special
moment because for me personally,
California Speedway and
being able to to know the success
that you guys had and that was just
two California kids totally going
at it. So that was Bakersfield
from there. It's about an hour
and a half. OK, so you're probably
closer than
what I was to see Diego.
Yeah. So I mean, oh, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. So for sure closer.
But the home track for me was
kind of the opposite because you
won so much there and it was
every time we were in position to
do anything there went wrong.
So it was.
But that was a pretty cool moment
in one of those moments where he
was the first one.
Right. Yeah. The horseshoe.
Yeah. That was funny.
And and I think that the second
my second favorite, Jimmy
Johnson, Johnson moment was
two thousand and fourteen.
I'm sitting in the lounge and I
remember it was like it was
yesterday. We were struggling in
practice.
Side door of the trailer opens up
and here he comes in, eat an
apple, sits down on a couch.
What can I do to help you guys?
And it was, well, you need to
pull the side out.
You need to do this. This is what
my car is doing.
Finishes Apple threw it in the
trash can, walked out and said,
if you need anything else, let
me know. So that was
really the beginning of the
Stuart Haas, the first year of
the Stuart Haas alliance that we
had with with Hendrick.
And obviously that got a little
more combative
as as it went through the years
that Chad was not happy with
totally with all those things
that were that were happening
with with Stuart Haas at that
time. But those were two of my
favorite memories that we that
we had that we can talk about.
Yeah, exactly. This show.
I'll never forget walking through
the transporters as we all have
our little, you know, alleys to
see around.
And I knew you guys were
struggling.
And I just want to pop and
make sure that headspace was
good. Like, yeah.
Wasn't one.
Yes. Yeah.
Noticed.
Yeah. One thing that I
realized in
having a chance at those
multiple championships
through them all, there still
was the same amount of anxiety
and stress.
And then I also realized that my
competitors all had that same
anxiety and stress.
And that was my goal was to share
like, hey, you might be having a
bad day. But I promise you, they're
just as freaked out, even if
they're having a good day.
Yeah. And I think that the other
the other thing that I'm learning
today is we're all more similar
in the in the enjoying
it part of of what we do.
We work our whole life and dream
about getting there.
And then you're just frustrated
and and so ingrained
in the competition side that you
lose side of the fun parts.
And I think that's that's
something for the young guys to
take from this conversation.
But last question,
what was your first car that you
drove on the street?
I had a 1986
Ford Ranger pickup truck.
OK.
Yep.
Just standard pickup truck
because this sounds a lot like
McMurray too.
He's like it was the most
boring.
No, mine had a little on it.
It was a black truck, had a
little lift,
of course, a stick shift.
And seeing Diego, you needed
something with a little bit of
lift and go out in the desert
and bomb around.
And also, there were a lot of
dirt roads where I grew up in
the rural area in El Cajon.
So I needed something I could
rip around on some roads.
Yeah. Did you did you wreck it?
Sell it? No, I sold it to a
buddy.
I was racing a little off road
buggies. So I had
some money and bought my first
truck before I turned 16 and
had to sit in the driveway and
I like wax it and wash it once
a week.
But my dad had a great piece
of advice.
I was starting to drive for
Chevrolet and he said you should
put some big blue oval stickers
on this thing and park it right
at the front of the test sessions.
I'm like, why would I do that?
I hide it in the back.
He's like, because it'll give you
a free truck, you're not going
to drive for Chevy.
And I was like, damn, dad, that's
perfect. So I parked
it right at the front of the test
and a week later, I had a new
Chevy truck. That's awesome.
Well, thanks for taking the time.
I know that that you're busy,
but it's fun to catch up.
Great to catch up.
We appreciate the background. We
could probably do this for three
or four hours.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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