Jimmy Fennig Talks Bobby Allison’s Daytona 500 Win & Career-Ending Crash
About this episode
Jimmy Fennig recounts his path from building dirt-track cars in Wisconsin to becoming a championship NASCAR crew chief, with stops through ASA, Roush/RFK, and the Cup garage. Dale Jr. and Fennig dig into the modern challenge of the Next Gen car—tiny part tolerances, QC, and rules shaping performance. Big highlights include Fennig’s early bond with Bobby Allison, the Daytona 500 win in 1988 (including spoiler-angle strategy), and the emotional aftermath of Allison’s career-ending crash. The conversation also covers Fennig’s later success with Mark Martin and Kurt Busch, plus his post-crew-chief role and ongoing projects.
Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomed one of the fiercest competitors and hardest workers in the NASCAR garage to the Download this week, longtime championship-winning crew chief Jimmy Fennig. Best known for his thirty-year tenure at Roush Fenway Keselowski Racing, Jimmy helped elevate a young Kurt Busch to his lone NASCAR Cup Championship in 2004. Jimmy’s journey to the top of NASCAR’s crew chief rankings came from humble beginnings in southeastern Wisconsin. After growing up under the roof of two generations of dirt racers, Jimmy and his brother Jeffrey decided to try their own hand at the craft, building and racing a sportsman car out of local Hales Corner Speedway. Jimmy quickly realized he preferred turning wrenches to rubbing fenders, and he took a job preparing cars for Wisconsin legend Al Schill.
It was through this connection that he’d meet Bobby Allison at Slinger Speedway, beginning a long friendship that brought Jimmy into the NASCAR fold. Jimmy experienced a short track pinnacle, winning the 1986 American Speed Association Championship with Mark Martin, and it was off to the races in stock car land. Jimmy would join Bobby at the burgeoning Stavola Brothers Racing outfit, and they’d capture the 1988 Daytona 500. After Bobby’s tragic career-ending crash at Pocono, he’d take on an ownership role, and Jimmy would follow along, sitting atop the box for Hut Stricklin, Jeff Purvis, and others. When Bobby Allison Motorsports shuttered in 1996, Jimmy was the last one out of the shop, and he’d part for the Liberty, North Carolina location of Roush to reunite with Mark Martin.
Dale and Jimmy’s conversation covers the tough competition of ASA in the 1980s, the loyalty and grit of Bobby Allison, and achieving the top accomplishments NASCAR has to offer.
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NASCAR Cup Series
"He was a crew chief in the Cup Series. We all may remember his days with Kurt Busch as a championship crew chief in 2004... and find similar success in the world of NASCAR inside the Cup garage"
NASCAR has different racing levels. The Cup Series is the biggest, most competitive level where the top teams race for the main championships.
The NASCAR Cup Series is the top level of NASCAR stock-car racing in the U.S. When the hosts mention Jimmy Fennig being a crew chief in the Cup Series, they’re talking about the highest-profile teams and races in NASCAR.
crew chief
"He was a crew chief in the Cup Series... Jimmy being in the pits working on cars... and Jimmy and those guys would come down here and bring their knowledge and their success"
A crew chief is the team’s lead strategist in NASCAR—responsible for race strategy, car setup direction, and calling adjustments during the race. The transcript frames Jimmy Fennig’s role as a crew chief as central to his career success.
ASA ranks
"But way before then, he was working with guys like Bobby Allison. And in the ASA ranks, he worked with Mark Martin and several other drivers... from their ASA racing and find similar success in the world of NASCAR"
ASA (American Speed Association) was a regional-to-national stock-car series that served as a stepping stone for drivers and crew members. The hosts describe Jimmy Fennig’s ASA experience as foundational before he moved into NASCAR’s top Cup level.
pits
"I remember Jimmy being in the pits working on cars. And they had their own little world up there... from their ASA racing and find similar success in the world of NASCAR"
The pits are where NASCAR teams service the car during scheduled stops and where the crew works on setup changes. The hosts mention Jimmy being in the pits working on cars, highlighting how hands-on crew work and quick adjustments matter in stock-car racing.
NASCAR Cup garage
"...bring their knowledge and their success and experience from their ASA racing and find similar success in the world of NASCAR inside the Cup garage"
The Cup garage refers to the team area and operational environment for NASCAR Cup Series teams. It’s where the highest-level crew members apply experience from lower series to compete at the top.
ASA stuff
"I was around when dad was messing with that ASA stuff in the 80s and late 80s..."
ASA was a smaller racing series that existed before NASCAR became the main destination for many people. It’s mentioned here to show how careers in stock-car racing often start in lower-tier series.
“ASA” refers to the American Speed Association, a regional stock-car series that existed before it was absorbed into other series. Mentioning ASA helps explain the feeder-path many drivers and crew members took before fully committing to NASCAR.
new car
"What I do today, it's challenging, you know, especially with this new car."
“New car” in NASCAR usually means a newly introduced generation or specification that changes how teams set up the car and how crew roles operate. The speaker highlights that the job is especially challenging with the current generation, implying new rules, aero, or chassis/handling characteristics.
QC
"“You know, QC is a big part of our sport right now. That's kind of overtaken everything, you know, the pieces coming in and out.”"
QC just means “quality control.” It’s how teams double-check that the parts they’re using are built correctly and match the exact specs. In racing, tiny differences can change how the car drives, so QC matters a lot.
In racing, QC (quality control) is the process of checking parts and assemblies to make sure they meet tight specifications before they ever get installed on the race car. Even small deviations can affect aerodynamics, fitment, and ultimately lap time, so teams treat QC as a performance tool, not just a safety step.
tolerance
"“And it might it's just a little variance of shape or or tolerance. And you're looking for hundreds of thousands is…”"
Tolerance is how precisely a part is made. If the part is allowed to be slightly bigger or smaller than the ideal size, that can change how it fits and how the car behaves. Racing teams try to keep those variations as small as possible.
Tolerance refers to the allowable “slop” in manufacturing—how much a part’s dimensions can vary from the target spec. In high-level motorsport, teams care about tolerances because small dimensional differences can change airflow, suspension geometry, and how body panels sit, which can translate into measurable performance.
hundreds of thousands
"“And you're looking for hundreds of thousands is, you know, instead of, you know, big chunks of speed here and there…”"
They’re talking about chasing very tiny improvements. Instead of one huge upgrade, teams look for lots of small gains that together can help you go faster. That’s why details like part fit and shape matter.
The phrase “hundreds of thousands” here is about chasing extremely small performance gains—fractions of a second or tiny aerodynamic/fitment improvements that add up over a race. Modern racing often becomes a compounding game: many micro-advantages across the car can matter more than one big change.
tiny little advantages
"“you're putting together all these tiny little advantages or things that you think would be advantages all over the race car with body parts or whatever.”"
This describes the modern race-car development approach: stacking many small advantages across the vehicle rather than relying on a single dominant performance factor. Body panels and other exterior components can influence airflow, drag, and downforce, so even “tiny” differences in shape or mounting can affect lap times.
Roush
"So you spent a large majority of your career working at Roush and what is now RFK and we're going to dive into all that down the road."
Roush is a well-known NASCAR racing team. They work on making the race car fast and reliable, and they improve it for every race.
Roush refers to Roush Racing, a major NASCAR team/constructor known for building and preparing competitive stock cars. In NASCAR, teams like Roush focus on engineering, car setup, and race-week development to gain small performance advantages each week.
RFK
"So you spent a large majority of your career working at Roush and what is now RFK and we're going to dive into all that down the road."
RFK is another NASCAR racing team name. It’s connected to the Roush side of the sport, and it’s where the team’s operations and cars get built for races.
RFK is shorthand for RFK Racing, the NASCAR organization that evolved from the Roush operation. Team ownership/branding changes can affect resources, engineering direction, and how cars are developed over time.
Rambler Rebel
"But my grandpa, he worked for American Motors back in the day and he had a Rambler Rebel and he ran, I think, USAC with it, you know, back in the day."
The Rambler Rebel is an older American Motors car. The story is that his grandpa had one and used it for racing back when those cars were more common in motorsports.
The Rambler Rebel is a classic model from American Motors, and it’s mentioned here as the car Bobby Allison’s family used for racing. In that era, USAC-style racing often involved adapting production-based cars for competition on dirt and other surfaces.
American Motors
"But my grandpa, he worked for American Motors back in the day and he had a Rambler Rebel and he ran, I think, USAC with it, you know, back in the day."
American Motors is the old car company that made the Rambler line. It’s mentioned because his grandpa worked there and had a Rambler Rebel for racing.
American Motors Corporation (AMC) was a U.S. automaker that produced models like the Rambler Rebel. AMC’s presence in racing history matters because many grassroots and regional racers used AMC cars before the company was absorbed into larger automakers.
USAC
"But my grandpa, he worked for American Motors back in the day and he had a Rambler Rebel and he ran, I think, USAC with it, you know, back in the day."
USAC is a racing organization that runs events, especially on dirt tracks. It’s brought up to explain what kind of racing his grandpa did.
USAC (United States Auto Club) is a sanctioning body known for open-wheel and stock-car racing, especially on dirt tracks. Mentioning USAC helps listeners understand the racing ladder and how drivers/teams gained experience on different types of cars and tracks.
stripped down a street legal car
"“You just stripped down a street legal car and stripped it down. Try gut it…”"
They’re talking about taking a regular street car and removing the parts you don’t need for racing. That makes it lighter and more focused on performance.
“Stripped down a street legal car” describes converting a normal, road-legal vehicle into a race-prepped machine by removing non-essential interior and trim and sometimes simplifying systems. This is a common grassroots approach because it lowers weight and reduces things that can fail during racing.
weight was a big thing
"“Try gut it and I'll get as light as possible back even back then. You know, weight was a big thing.”"
Lighter cars usually feel quicker and handle better. If you remove extra stuff, the car has less to carry around, so it can speed up and turn more easily.
In racing, reducing weight improves acceleration, braking, and cornering because the car has less mass to move and stop. When someone says “weight was a big thing,” they’re describing the early hot-rod/race mindset of stripping unnecessary parts to make the car faster and more responsive.
roll cage
"Put our own roll cage in it. You know, I didn't have a full cage from from snout to snout."
A roll cage is a metal safety frame inside the car. It helps keep the driver protected if the car flips or crashes hard.
A roll cage is a reinforced metal frame installed inside a race car to protect the driver during crashes or rollovers. It ties into the chassis so the cabin stays rigid and the driver has a survival space.
full cage from snout to snout
"You know, I didn't have a full cage from from snout to snout. Yeah. So, and then, you know, went to stock our products about my first racing hub."
They’re talking about how complete the safety frame is. A “full” cage covers more of the car, while a smaller/partial one protects but doesn’t reinforce everything.
“Snout to snout” describes a roll cage that spans the car’s length, typically from the front structure to the rear. A partial cage may protect the driver but won’t stiffen the whole chassis as much, which can affect safety and handling.
Hales corners
"Saturday night. What track? Hales corners. What is, where's, where's that place at? That's a, it's a little bit west of Milwaukee."
They’re naming the local track where they raced. It helps set the scene that this was smaller, community-level racing.
Hales Corners is referenced as the location of the speaker’s local dirt track. For listeners, it’s a clue that this racing was grassroots and regional rather than a major national venue.
dirt track
"It was a famous, well, not famous, but it was a local, our local dirt track. You know, we had a lot of race tracks up there."
A dirt track is a race course made of dirt instead of pavement. Dirt changes how the tires grip, so the car feels different and is harder to drive fast.
A dirt track is a racing surface made of dirt (often packed clay or similar material), which changes traction and vehicle behavior compared to asphalt. Cars typically need different setups—like tire choice and suspension tuning—to handle sliding and changing grip.
sportsman series
"“So I hung it up fast enough. You know, I did a sportsman series and then I did a late model series.”"
A “sportsman series” is a level of stock-car racing below the top divisions. It’s a place where people learn how to race and improve their cars before going bigger.
The “sportsman series” refers to a lower-tier stock-car racing class that many drivers and crew members use as a stepping stone. It’s where teams often develop car setup skills and learn race operations before moving up.
late model series
"“You know, I did a sportsman series and then I did a late model series. And after the late model series, I just kind of gave it up.”"
A “late model series” is a type of stock-car racing, usually on short tracks. Teams spend a lot of time tuning the car so it handles well during the race.
A “late model series” is a common grassroots-to-regional stock-car category where cars are built and tuned for short-track racing. Crew chiefs and builders often focus heavily on setup and incremental improvements because races can be won by handling and tire management.
geometry
"“What were some of the things that were innovative at the time in terms of geometry?”"
When they say “geometry,” they mean how the suspension and wheels are set up relative to each other. That setup changes how the tires grip and how the car turns, especially in corners.
In racing, “geometry” usually refers to the suspension and steering setup—things like camber, caster, toe, and how the suspension is positioned. Small changes can strongly affect tire contact, steering feel, and how the car handles through turns.
GEO stuff
"You know, some guys probably weren't doing a ton of GEO stuff or thinking about, you know, camber gains and things like that."
In racing, “GEO” is short for geometry. It means setting up the suspension and steering so the tires stay in the best position while the car turns and bumps around.
“GEO” in racing usually refers to geometry—how the suspension and steering are set up to control tire contact and handling. It covers things like camber, caster, toe, and how those angles change as the car moves.
camber gains
"You know, some guys probably weren't doing a ton of GEO stuff or thinking about, you know, camber gains and things like that."
Camber is the tilt of the tire. Camber gain means how that tilt changes when the suspension moves, like when you turn and the car leans. Getting it right helps the tire stay “square” to the road for better traction.
Camber gain is how much the wheel’s camber angle changes as the suspension moves through its travel—especially during cornering. More camber gain can help keep the tire’s contact patch flatter under load, improving grip and tire wear.
A-frames
"we used to just sit there and take a torch and cut our A-frames and shorten them up to get the camber where we wanted."
An A-frame is a suspension arm that helps hold the wheel in the right position. Changing its length changes how the tire sits and moves, which can affect grip when you’re cornering.
A-frames are a type of suspension control arm used to locate the wheel and control its movement. Cutting and shortening them changes suspension geometry—like camber and ride height—so the wheel points where the team wants it.
bump steer
"But did you, were y'all messing with bump steer? And no, not that."
Bump steer is unwanted steering change as the suspension moves over bumps or during cornering. If the steering linkage geometry isn’t matched to suspension travel, the car can “steer itself” unpredictably, hurting stability and driver confidence.
trial and error
"So all of that engine, you know, ingenuity and creativity is all self-taught. Just trial and error, you know, trial and error."
Trial and error means you try a change, watch what happens, and then adjust again. Before modern tools, racers often figured out the best setup this way.
“Trial and error” describes developing setup and geometry by testing changes and observing results rather than relying on calculations or simulation. In older racing setups, teams often learned what worked by making adjustments and seeing how the car behaved.
grip vs track conditions (drier track = less grip)
"Trial and error, you know, we come up with, you know, as dirt tracks, as you know, as the drier to get, [683.9s] the less grip you got."
Tire grip changes depending on the track surface. If the track is drier, the tires may not stick as well, so the car setup has to be adjusted to compensate.
Track grip changes with conditions like moisture and rubber buildup. A drier track often provides less available traction, which forces teams to adjust suspension and setup to regain control and balance.
weight jack
"So we put a little weight jack in the left rear corner with slots on it so we could load the left rear spring more. [692.2s] You know, that was our adjustment because we ran leaf springs, not coils."
A weight jack in a race suspension context is an adjustable device used to add or shift load at a corner to change how the suspension works. By loading a specific spring more, teams can influence traction and handling balance.
leaf springs
"So we put a little weight jack in the left rear corner with slots on it so we could load the left rear spring more. [692.2s] You know, that was our adjustment because we ran leaf springs, not coils."
Leaf springs are a suspension part that helps the car absorb bumps. Instead of one coil spring, they use stacked metal strips, and racers can adjust them to change how the car sits and handles.
Leaf springs are a type of suspension spring made from stacked metal strips. They’re common on older trucks and some race setups because they can be tuned for ride height and axle control.
coil springs
"[692.2s] You know, that was our adjustment because we ran leaf springs, not coils. [696.1s] Right."
Coil springs are the common “spring” you see in most cars. They’re usually easier to tune and replace than leaf springs, which use stacked metal strips.
Coil springs are round, helical springs used in many modern suspensions. Compared with leaf springs, they’re typically easier to package and tune for a more predictable spring rate.
reverse shackle
"So kind of like a reverse shackle, just had to go up and down in slots to spring. [706.9s] Man."
A reverse shackle is a way of mounting a leaf-spring connection so the axle moves differently when the car hits bumps. Racers use it to help the car stay planted and handle better.
A reverse shackle is a suspension geometry setup used with leaf springs where the shackle orientation is flipped, changing how the axle moves through bump and droop. It can affect ride height, traction, and how the car responds as the suspension compresses.
modified (race car)
"[735.4s] He used to drive modified years ago, then he went to late model. [738.4s] And so then I decided that he kind of took an interest in me and he says, hey, come work for me."
“Modified” usually means a short-track racing class where the cars are allowed more changes than some other categories. It’s a different style of racing than late model, so drivers sometimes switch classes.
“Modified” is a racing category (often short-track) typically associated with cars that have more freedom in chassis and engine configuration than stricter “late model” rules. Drivers may move between modified and late model classes as they progress.
salvage yard
"So salvage yards are a thing of the past these days. You know, I used to, there was a salvage yards down the street from dad's place... Me and Kerry had run back in there all the time for ball joints and stuff for our street stock car..."
A salvage yard is like a junkyard where old cars are taken apart. You can often find usable parts from those cars instead of buying brand-new ones.
A salvage yard is a place where wrecked or retired vehicles are dismantled so parts can be reused. Instead of buying new components, people hunt for specific parts like suspension pieces or electrical parts from older cars.
street stock car
"Me and Kerry had run back in there all the time for ball joints and stuff for our street stock car and. You know, if somebody came in, needed an alternator or whatever..."
Street stock is a type of local racing class where cars are based on regular street cars. The rules usually keep costs down, so people look for affordable parts.
“Street stock” is a common grassroots racing class that typically uses production-based cars with limited modifications. Because it’s rules-based and budget-sensitive, racers often rely on readily available parts—sometimes sourced from salvage yards.
ball joints
"Me and Kerry had run back in there all the time for ball joints and stuff for our street stock car and. You know, if somebody came in, needed an alternator or whatever..."
Ball joints are small parts in the suspension that help the wheels move and steer properly. If they wear out, the car can feel loose and tires can wear unevenly.
Ball joints are suspension components that allow controlled movement between the steering knuckle and suspension arms. They’re commonly replaced when worn because they affect steering feel, alignment, and tire wear.
alternator
"...and that was like. Working in a salvage yard... You know, if somebody came in, needed an alternator or whatever, the salvage yard guy, you run back there and pull it off a truck or car..."
The alternator is what keeps your car’s battery charged while you drive. If it breaks, the battery can run down and the car may act like it has no power.
An alternator is the engine-driven generator that powers the vehicle’s electrical system and recharges the battery. When it fails, you can get symptoms like dim lights, battery warning lights, or the car not starting.
crusher car crusher
"And that was like. Working in a salvage yard... The owner Al, he just he bought a crusher car crusher. So we had a big forklift and. Throw cars in there. That'd be fun. Throw cars in there and watch them get crushed."
A car crusher is a big machine that squashes cars into scrap metal. It’s used after the yard has taken off any parts that can still be used.
A car crusher is heavy equipment used to compact vehicles into scrap metal. It’s part of the recycling process after usable parts have been removed, and it’s why many salvage yards can process large volumes quickly.
track championship
"So you get an opportunity to to you're done driving, you know, and you're going to start working on Al's car. And y'all would have success when the track championship. That was in 1971."
A track championship is like a season where racers compete multiple times and earn points. The driver with the most points (or best overall results) wins the championship.
A track championship is a season-long competition where drivers earn points across multiple races at a specific track or within a regional series. Winning it usually means consistent performance, not just a single race result.
David Pearson
"And I wonder, I guess I wonder in Wisconsin, what of NASCAR were you hearing and how aware were you of, you know, the David Pearson's and Richard Petty's of the world? Yeah. That was a big deal."
David Pearson was one of NASCAR’s most successful drivers, known for winning championships and many races. Mentioning him signals the era’s top-tier talent and the sport’s celebrity-level figures.
Richard Petty
"And I wonder, I guess I wonder in Wisconsin, what of NASCAR were you hearing and how aware were you of, you know, the David Pearson's and Richard Petty's of the world? Yeah. That was a big deal."
Richard Petty is one of the most famous NASCAR drivers ever. If someone knew about him, it usually meant they were paying attention to the biggest names in the sport.
Richard Petty is a NASCAR legend associated with multiple championships and a huge fan following. In a conversation about awareness of NASCAR in the 1970s, his name represents the sport’s biggest stars.
different challenge every week
"It was enjoyable and it was every week was a different challenge. [928.2s] You know, you had to go there and it was about winning too. [931.0s] You know, you didn't want to go there and just race."
Racing isn’t the same every time you go out. Each week can be a new track or situation, so the team has to adjust and keep improving.
This highlights how racing schedules create constant variation—different tracks, conditions, and competitors each week. That forces teams to keep adapting rather than using one fixed setup or strategy.
progressed to asphalt
"So and on asphalt and dirt. [942.4s] So we started on dirt and we progressed to asphalt, you know, and went up Slinger, [946.9s] America, you know, different places like that."
Dirt and asphalt make the car behave differently. When a driver moves from dirt to asphalt, the tires and handling change, so the team usually has to adjust the car and how they drive.
Moving from dirt to asphalt is a big step in racing because the grip levels, tire behavior, and car setup change. Teams often adjust suspension, gearing, and driving strategy to match the different surface.
lead mechanic
"Were you the lead mechanic at that point? [954.7s] Yeah, I was the lead guy. [956.0s] You know, that was my baby, you know, just take care of the car maintenance, building, [959.8s] you know, stuff like that."
A lead mechanic is the main person in charge of keeping the race car in good shape. They make sure the car gets fixed, maintained, and ready to run so the driver can focus on racing.
In racing, a lead mechanic is the person responsible for coordinating the team’s day-to-day work on the race car. That typically includes maintenance, repairs, and overseeing how the car is prepared for each event.
car maintenance, building
"Yeah, I was the lead guy. [956.0s] You know, that was my baby, you know, just take care of the car maintenance, building, [959.8s] you know, stuff like that. [961.5s] But yeah, it was, it was fun back then."
In racing, “maintenance” and “building” are the work that keeps the car running right. It means checking parts, fixing problems, and getting the car ready for the next race.
“Car maintenance” and “building” in racing refer to the hands-on work that keeps the car reliable and competitive. That can include inspections, repairs, and assembling or refreshing components between events.
racing dirt one night, asphalt next dirt
"You know, racing that many, you know, you race dirt one night, asphalt next dirt. Turn in the car around every day."
Dirt and pavement “feel” different to the tires. On dirt the car tends to slide more and grip changes a lot, while asphalt is usually steadier—so drivers and cars often need different setups.
Racing on dirt and asphalt changes how the car grips the track. Dirt usually has more sliding and lower, more variable traction, while asphalt is more consistent and rewards different tire and setup choices.
Turn in the car around every day
"Turn in the car around every day. Turn in the car around every day. Yeah."
“Turning the car around” refers to quickly preparing and returning the race car for the next session or event. That typically includes cleaning, inspecting, and making any needed adjustments so the car is ready to run again.
Al's garage
"He was a kind of retired old guy and we'd just go in Al's garage and that garage is still there to today with no kidding."
A garage is where the cars live and get worked on between races. It’s the place for basic upkeep and repairs so the car is ready to go again.
A garage in this context is the team’s or family’s home base for maintenance and storage between races. It’s where cars are cleaned, worked on, and kept ready, which is especially important in grassroots and multi-surface racing.
salvage arms
"Is the salvage arms still there? Still there. Wow."
“Salvage arms” sounds like spare suspension parts taken from older wrecked cars. Teams use these to replace damaged pieces quickly so the car can get back on track.
“Salvage arms” likely refers to used or spare suspension components sourced from wrecked cars (arms are commonly control arms). In racing, having spare parts helps keep the car running and speeds up repairs after damage.
fueled the car
"[1037.1s] Well, I think Jerry come in and he wanted to do more bigger races. [1042.5s] I can't say bigger races. [1043.7s] He wanted to go arco racing, ASA racing, you know, and then eventually he fueled the car [1049.0s] for Bobby, you know, so."
“Fueled the car” just means supplying the race car with gas as part of the race team’s job. In racing, how and when you refuel can affect how fast the car can run and when you have to stop.
“Fueled the car” refers to providing fuel to the race car during that era’s racing operations—either at the track or as part of the team’s logistics. In NASCAR-style racing, fuel strategy and reliable refueling are critical because stops and fuel capacity directly affect race pace and pit timing.
ASA racing
"[1042.5s] I can't say bigger races. [1043.7s] He wanted to go arco racing, ASA racing, you know, and then eventually he fueled the car [1049.0s] for Bobby, you know, so."
“ASA racing” means racing in the ASA series, which was a real stock-car racing organization. Drivers and teams used it as a stepping stone toward bigger, more famous races.
“ASA racing” refers to the ASA (American Speed Association), a stock-car racing organization that ran in the U.S. during the late 20th century. It’s relevant because drivers and teams often moved between ASA and other series as they chased bigger opportunities and higher-profile races.
arco racing
"[1042.5s] I can't say bigger races. [1043.7s] He wanted to go arco racing, ASA racing, you know, and then eventually he fueled the car [1049.0s] for Bobby, you know, so."
“ARCO racing” is probably a reference to a racing series that was sponsored or supported by ARCO. In stock car history, big fuel companies frequently put their name on the racing events.
“ARCO racing” likely refers to a racing series or sponsorship associated with ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Company). In motorsports history, major oil companies often sponsored series and teams, and the name could show up in how people described the competition they were running.
Texas Motor Speedway
"...we're going to go race a couple race tracks, you know, I don't know where you can say Texas Motor Speedway."
Texas Motor Speedway is a big NASCAR-style race track in Texas. The hosts mention it to highlight that the racing environment changes when you go from smaller tracks to major venues.
Texas Motor Speedway is a major NASCAR venue in the Dallas–Fort Worth area. In this segment, it’s used as an example of moving to bigger, higher-speed tracks compared with short tracks.
short track team
"Yeah. So you build a, it says here, you built a powerhouse short track team."
A “short track team” is built around racing on shorter circuits where braking, traction, and frequent traffic management matter a lot. The segment frames this as a “powerhouse” because the team’s preparation and car setup are tuned for that specific style of racing.
Texas World
"...you went, ran some arco stuff, Texas World. These are different race tracks than what you'd experienced..."
“Texas World” refers to Texas World Speedway, a former motorsports facility in College Station, Texas. The discussion contrasts it with short-track racing, emphasizing higher speeds and different car setup demands.
half-mile track
"...a car that's got to go get around a half mile track every weekend that's going to run dirt one night and asphalt the next..."
A half-mile track is a relatively small oval. Racing there usually means tighter, more intense driving, so the car and setup have to be prepared for that kind of track.
A half-mile oval is a common short-track length where cars run tighter racing lines and braking zones. The segment uses it to explain how crew work changes when you’re preparing a car to handle different surfaces and race conditions.
dirt one night and asphalt the next
"...that's going to run dirt one night and asphalt the next and all these different race tracks..."
Switching between dirt and asphalt requires major changes in car setup and driving approach because traction characteristics differ dramatically. This segment highlights the crew’s challenge: preparing the same team to be competitive across fundamentally different surfaces.
prepare a car good enough that we can go out there and win
"...my goal every time I went was let's go to win. You know, no matter it was Al, anybody... let's just prepare a car good enough that we can go out there and win with."
This is a description of race-team strategy: the crew’s job is to build a car that’s competitive enough to win, not just finish. It ties directly to how setup, preparation, and track adaptation affect results.
race track
"Well, that started back at, I don't know if you're familiar with Wayne Erickson, the owner, he used to be the owner of Slinger Speedway. He wanted Bobby to come race his race track."
They’re talking about a specific racing venue and how the track owner wanted Bobby to come race there. Local tracks can be important for getting drivers noticed and building connections.
The transcript references Slinger Speedway and “his race track,” highlighting how local tracks and promoters were key to building relationships with drivers. For listeners, this is a reminder that grassroots and regional circuits often serve as stepping stones to bigger series.
ASA type car
"Bobby brought his own car, his own personal car. He had an ASA type car and he went up there and ran and he wasn't... They missed the setup a little, you know, but we ran there every week, you know."
ASA was a stock-car racing series. An “ASA type car” means a race car prepared to fit that series’ rules, not just a random street car.
“ASA” refers to the American Speed Association, a stock-car racing series. When someone says “ASA type car,” they’re describing a car built and prepared to compete under that series’ rules and typical setup expectations.
setup
"They missed the setup a little, you know, but we ran there every week, you know. So Benny put that deal together to drive one of Jerry's cars or one of Al's cars up there."
A “setup” is how a race car is adjusted for a specific track. If they “missed the setup,” it means the car wasn’t tuned quite right, so it didn’t handle as well as it could.
In racing, “setup” means the car’s configuration—things like suspension settings, tire choices, and balance adjustments—to match a track and driving style. The speaker says they “missed the setup a little,” implying the car wasn’t dialed in for that venue.
PR general manager type guy
"Yeah. Benny Ortell is sort of a, I don't know, a PR general manager type guy. He worked with Bobby, worked with my dad for years and Mark Martin, you would know this..."
They’re describing Benny Ortell as someone who handled both promotion/public relations and management duties. In racing, that kind of job helps coordinate the people and resources needed to run events.
The speaker describes Benny Ortell as a “PR general manager type guy,” indicating a role that blends public relations with team or event management. In motorsports, these responsibilities often include coordinating drivers, sponsors, and logistics to get cars and people into races.
NASCAR Cup world
"ASA, you had, you know, you had Dick Trickle, Butch Miller, all these incredible Seneca, [1306.3s] all these incredible drivers and y'all were, it was almost like its own little NASCAR cup [1312.1s] world up there."
They’re talking about the difference between NASCAR’s top level and other racing series. The idea is that the higher you go, the more specialized and competitive the whole setup becomes.
The phrase “NASCAR Cup world” is used to contrast top-tier NASCAR with other stock-car series. It highlights how the competitive environment and expectations can change when you move up to the Cup level.
Milwaukee mile
"So we went in there and stronger and set it up for Milwaukee, for a Milwaukee mile. [1385.3s] Really?"
The “Milwaukee mile” is a specific race track. It’s a flat oval, and race teams have to adjust the car setup to match how that track drives.
The “Milwaukee mile” refers to the Milwaukee Mile, a historic oval track in Wisconsin used for racing. In NASCAR-era conversations, it often comes up because teams had to set cars up differently for its specific banking and surface compared with other ovals.
setting the car up
"And what was it about your literal techniques to setting the car up when you went and set dad's car up in his shop."
“Setting the car up” means tuning the race car so it handles the way the driver needs. It can involve things like alignment and suspension adjustments, and it can make a big difference in speed and tire grip.
“Setting the car up” is race-team shorthand for adjusting suspension, alignment, tire pressures, and chassis balance to match the track and driving style. In stock-car racing, small setup changes can strongly affect handling and tire wear, which is why crew chiefs and mechanics are so influential.
rear end
"Was the rear end not in it? Was the, what did they have?"
“Rear end” is the back part of the car that drives the wheels. How it’s set up affects how well the car grips and how it behaves when you’re turning.
In racing talk, “rear end” usually refers to the rear axle assembly and its setup, including how the car transfers power and traction to the track. Rear-end behavior is closely tied to handling balance—too much or too little traction can cause understeer or oversteer.
Front Geo
"Was there, was there theories around Front Geo? Just very basic in general, comparable to what you guys were trying to do."
“Front Geo” is short for front-end geometry—alignment settings like camber, caster, and toe. These angles change how the car turns and how stable it feels under braking and cornering, so teams adjust them to improve grip and reduce tire issues.
cup car
"I'm going to set up a cup car. The same way."
A “cup car” is a NASCAR top-series race car. It’s built and prepared to the Cup rules, and teams tune it to make it handle and race well.
A “cup car” refers to a NASCAR Cup Series race car. These cars are purpose-built for the top-level NASCAR rules package, with standardized chassis/body concepts but team-specific setup and tuning.
Bilstein
"The dad was always too, I think dad ran a lot of Bilstein shocks and I don't know if that was a hot ticket at the, at that particular time."
Bilstein makes performance shocks (the parts that control how the car moves over bumps). In racing, the right shocks help the car grip and stay steady when you’re turning fast.
Bilstein is a suspension brand best known for shock absorbers and struts. In racing, teams choose specific shocks because they affect how the car stays stable over bumps and during cornering.
Goodyear
"Like he would be, you know how he, he was so loyal to like certain brands like Goodyear right?"
Goodyear makes racing tires. Tires are what actually grip the track, so the brand and type can make the car handle better or wear out faster.
Goodyear is a major tire manufacturer, and tire choice is a huge part of race performance. Different tire brands and compounds can change grip, wear rate, and how predictable the car feels.
Hoosiers
"When the entire wars came in, I ain't running Hoosiers. I'll go to, I'll go to Charlotte and run 30th all day."
Hoosier is a tire brand used in racing. Choosing Hoosiers (or not) changes how much grip the car has and how quickly the tires wear.
Hoosier is a racing tire brand commonly used in motorsports. When a driver says they won’t run Hoosiers, they’re talking about switching tire behavior—grip and wear characteristics can be very different.
Charlotte
"I'll go to, I'll go to Charlotte and run 30th all day. Yeah."
Charlotte is a famous NASCAR track in North Carolina. Cars often need different setup choices depending on the track, so where you race matters.
Charlotte refers to Charlotte Motor Speedway, a major NASCAR venue. Track-specific setups and tire choices can strongly influence race competitiveness.
VHS tape player
"...Mark puts all these tapes in the VHS tape player beta, probably back"
VHS was an old way to watch recorded videos using physical tapes. The host is saying Mark Martin brought tapes over to play them on a VHS machine.
A VHS tape player is an older home video system that used magnetic tape to record and play video. Mentioning it here highlights the era—how race footage or other content was stored and shared before digital media.
beta
"...Mark puts all these tapes in the VHS tape player beta, probably back"
“Beta” likely refers to Betamax, another older home video format that competed with VHS. The speaker’s wording suggests they’re recalling the specific playback setup from that time period.
chassis deals, engine deals
"Mark's talked about that, how he had all these deals, chassis deals, engine deals, and when he went home, he didn't have no deals anymore."
Those phrases mean agreements to get the race car parts and the engine for races. If the deals fall through, a driver may not have the equipment or money needed to keep racing.
“Chassis deals” and “engine deals” refer to the business arrangements teams make to secure the race car platform (chassis) and powerplant (engine) for competition. When Mark “didn’t have no deals anymore,” it highlights how quickly a driver’s ability to race can change if funding or equipment support disappears.
grind from the bottom again
"and when he went home, he didn't have no deals anymore. And like he had to work, he had to grind it back, you know, grind from the bottom again."
It means he had to start over after losing support. In racing, that can happen when you don’t have a team or the right equipment lined up.
“Grind from the bottom again” describes restarting a racing career after losing sponsorship, equipment, or team support. It’s a common motorsports reality: drivers may need to rebuild relationships and secure new rides before they can compete at the same level.
Mark teamed up
"when you got, when you, you and him teamed up, you know, I imagine he was, uh, desperate to, to, to get, you know, stabilize his, his racing career and, and kind of get himself back on track."
They’re talking about how the two people worked together to help Mark get his racing career back on track. It’s more about the team and effort than about a specific car part.
The hosts discuss how “Mark” and the guest teamed up to stabilize Mark’s racing career. This is a career-management angle rather than a specific technical racing detail, but it sets up why the racing program mattered.
Jerry Gunderman
"we came down and Jerry Gunderman, he went and drove for Jerry Gunderman. Miller was our sponsor, you know, thank Bobby and Benny for putting all that stuff together"
They mention Jerry Gunderman as the person Mark drove for. In racing, that kind of connection usually means you get a team and a place to work on the car every day.
Jerry Gunderman is referenced as the person Mark drove for, and the segment also mentions “Jerry had a shop.” In motorsports, a team/driver relationship like this often determines access to equipment, coaching, and day-to-day car prep.
Miller
"Miller was our sponsor, you know, thank Bobby and Benny for putting all that stuff together and from there on there, every day at Jerry had a shop."
They say “Miller” was the sponsor. Sponsors help pay for the racing effort, and that can affect how well the team can prepare the car.
“Miller” is mentioned as the sponsor during the period when the team was putting things together. Sponsorship in racing typically funds the car program and can influence resources like parts availability, testing, and logistics.
Michigan Speedway
"I'll never forget. But we were running Michigan for the first time. Speedway. Yeah."
They’re talking about racing at Michigan Speedway for the first time. New tracks can be tough because you have to learn how the car behaves there and adjust your setup.
The hosts mention running “Michigan” for the first time, specifically “Speedway.” Michigan International Speedway is a major NASCAR venue, and first-time races can be a big deal because setup and driving approach often need adjustment to the track’s characteristics.
Fiberglass body
"Fiberglass body. Yeah. Fiberglass body that was. Always amazed me."
A fiberglass body uses fiberglass panels instead of metal body panels. It can be lighter and easier to shape for racing, but it has to be built and mounted correctly so it doesn’t crack or come loose.
A fiberglass body means the outer body panels are made from fiberglass composite rather than stamped steel. In racing, fiberglass can reduce weight and allow easier shaping, but it also requires careful construction and can be sensitive to impact and mounting methods.
You couldn't change a car (rule restrictions)
"You couldn't change a car. Well, we go because they thought everything, you know, was stocked from five star."
They’re describing a time when the rules limited what you could change on the race car. That means teams had to follow the rules closely and find performance gains only where the rulebook allowed it.
The transcript highlights a rule environment where teams were not allowed to freely modify the car. This kind of restriction forces teams to work within a narrow “allowed parts/allowed changes” window, which can make preparation and compliance as important as raw speed.
cut the car up
"So what we do is cut the car up and what do we do in Speedway racing? Narrow them up."
“Cut the car up” means they did major changes to the car’s body or structure. In racing, big changes like that are often done to meet the rules or to make the car handle better.
“Cut the car up” in this context likely refers to major body/fabrication work to meet class specifications or improve fitment. In racing, such modifications can affect aerodynamics, weight distribution, and how the body interacts with the chassis.
Speedway racing
"So what we do is cut the car up and what do we do in Speedway racing? Narrow them up."
Speedway racing is oval-track racing—cars keep going around the track for many laps. Because it’s an oval, setup and driving focus on staying fast through repeated turns and managing speed for the whole run.
“Speedway racing” refers to oval-track racing where cars run in high-speed laps around a closed circuit. The racing format often emphasizes drafting, momentum, and setup choices that work for sustained cornering rather than short, technical road-course turns.
blown a couple of tires
"we blew a couple of tires in the middle of people were there."
“Blown a couple of tires” refers to tire failures severe enough to cause a rapid loss of function, often from overheating, debris, or setup issues. In oval racing, tire management is critical because sustained high loads can quickly turn a small problem into a failure.
ASA rules (strict on their rules)
"you know, creativity, creativity, you know, that's the same because back then ASA was pretty strict on their rules, you know, but they couldn't police everything."
ASA (American Speed Association) is described here as having strict rules that limited what teams could change on the car. When a rulebook is tight, teams look for legal ways to gain performance—like fabrication and body work—while staying within the allowed specifications.
qualifying on the pole
"You know, I'll never forget the day we're in Anderson, Indiana and we qualified, I think on the pole."
Qualifying is when drivers race against the clock to set the starting positions. If you’re “on the pole,” you start in the very first spot at the front of the grid.
In NASCAR, qualifying determines the starting order for the race. “On the pole” means the car earned the fastest qualifying time and starts first on the grid, which can be a big advantage at the start of the event.
spoiler
"We ended up backing up the Bob Seneca and everybody looks in our spoiler was probably about an inch taller than him."
A spoiler is a piece on the back of the car that helps it “stick” to the track by shaping the air flow. Even small differences can change how the car feels at speed.
A spoiler is an aerodynamic device mounted on the rear of the car to help manage airflow. In racing, small changes in spoiler height/shape can affect downforce and stability, which is why competitors may notice differences.
Daytona
"We went to Daytona with that car. Went to Daytona and narrowed everything up real nice."
Daytona is a famous NASCAR race track. It’s known for very high speeds and close racing where cars often run together in packs.
Daytona refers to Daytona International Speedway, one of NASCAR’s most important tracks. Racing there is a big deal because the superspeedway layout emphasizes high speed, drafting, and careful setup for long runs.
Riverside
"Well, let's go to Riverside with it. ... hauled it all the way out to Riverside and went out there and was running good."
Riverside was a race track that wasn’t an oval. Driving there is different because you have to brake and turn a lot more than on a typical high-speed oval.
Riverside refers to Riverside International Raceway, a road course that hosted major racing events in the past. Switching from an oval like Daytona to a road course changes how you set up the car—braking, cornering grip, and traction matter more than pure top speed.
Renault Wind
"Oh. So now we wind it back out because we only have one car, you kno..."
The Renault Wind is a small car that you can drive with the top down. It’s made for city and everyday driving, but with the added fun of being a convertible. It may come up when someone is talking about using one car for everything.
The Renault Wind is a small, European-built convertible designed for open-air driving with a compact footprint. It’s the kind of car that often comes up in casual conversation because it’s unusual in shape and purpose compared with typical sedans or hatchbacks. In a podcast, it may be mentioned as part of a story about everyday practicality—like having only one car available.
two tone blue car
"But the best part was when we, it was a two tone blue car, Jerry's truck and cars."
“Two tone” just means the car has two different paint colors. Race teams often use a distinctive look so the car is easy to recognize.
A “two tone” paint scheme is a specific livery style—two different colors separated by a line or pattern. In racing, livery can help teams identify cars quickly and can also become part of a driver/team’s visual identity.
Atlanta
"And we went to Atlanta with it. The last race at Atlanta."
Atlanta is another major NASCAR track. The hosts are pointing out it was the final NASCAR race there, which makes it a memorable milestone.
Atlanta refers to Atlanta Motor Speedway, another key NASCAR venue. The mention of “the last race at Atlanta” suggests a historical moment tied to the track’s NASCAR era and how teams planned around specific venues.
Robert Yates
"Sat on the outside front roll, you know, and then Robert Yates was building our motors, you know, awesome power, awesome."
Robert Yates was a well-known NASCAR engine builder. If he’s building the motors, that usually means the team’s engine is being tuned for maximum race performance.
Robert Yates was a major NASCAR engine builder and team figure, known for preparing competitive powerplants. When the transcript says he was “building our motors,” it highlights the importance of engine preparation to race performance.
outside front roll
"Sat on the outside front roll, you know, and then Robert Yates was building our motors..."
“Outside front roll” describes a starting position on the front row of the grid, specifically the outside lane. In NASCAR, starting position affects early track position and how cleanly you can get up to speed without getting boxed in.
full-time cup racing
"But you would, you would return to, to full-time cup racing with Bobby as the crew chief in 87."
“Full-time cup racing” means racing in the NASCAR top series for most or all of the season, not just a few selected races. It usually requires more commitment from the team and driver to keep improving week after week.
“Full-time cup racing” means committing to the NASCAR Cup Series schedule rather than running a limited number of events. In NASCAR, moving to full-time typically changes how teams plan resources, car development, and driver/crew consistency across the season.
deal for you
"I got a deal for you. You're going to go to chief."
A “deal” here means an agreement to take a new job or role with a racing team. In racing, that kind of change can affect how well the team can prepare and support the car.
In motorsports, a “deal” often means a contract or team role agreement that can change a driver’s competitive situation. It can involve responsibilities like crew chief duties, resources, and access to specific cars and technical support.
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