Kei Cars for everybody

Good evening, Bill. Good evening, Stanley. Hello, listeners. Welcome to season finale episode of the BS Car Guys

Bycast. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. We have made it to the end of another year and like we do traditionally because we have

families and obligations, which I know a lot of you people do as well. We are taking a break and we're going to go hang out with

them. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes, because we have to.

Sometimes both, but yes. Yep. I know everybody. Yeah, everybody got family members that they they want to see.

And then everybody got us family members that you're blessed to only have to see one time a year.

Yeah, so I guess what we're going to do in this episode is we're going to talk about a little bit of current events, some things that caught Bill's attention, some things that caught my attention.

Look forward to 2026 and maybe 2027 a little bit and have a look and preview a discussion that we plan on having at the beginning of the maybe the first episode next year or to begin either way next year sometime. Yeah.

But yeah, Bill. So, so one of the things that in between our last two episodes, a couple of things happened. One, the LA auto show wrapped and there was some some pretty good car news that came out of the tail end of that show.

And I thought we could discuss some of that. And then also I randomly had a text thought that I sent to Stanley while I was on the road working about what's the next like future classic car. What's the next car that's about to get real hot for collecting that's currently really cheap.

And so let me tell you what spurred this on. I'll share your mind with you, which really isn't a car so much as it is a genre of cars. You know, a couple of weeks ago, the president of the United States made a comment about having seen some

K cars from Japan. Yep. And wanting to be able to buy those in the US. Now, I never thought Donald Trump like him or not would would turn into a car guy supporter.

And I'm not even so sure he is, but I think that definitely wasn't his idea. Right, right. You know, roundabout sort of way, he's done two things. One, maybe this will make it a little easier to import K cars.

Or maybe it will do something to address the 25 year rule, which would be huge. Yes. But the other thing that it did was, I think it's going to cause the prices of these K cars that are currently in the US to jump up all of a sudden.

So cars like the Auto Zama Z1 or the Suzuki Cappuccino or, you know, even the little K trucks and the Vans, those types of vehicles, I think they're going to jump up in price.

You know, maybe not a hundred fold percent increase, but definitely like a 30 or 35, 40% jump in the next couple of years. So if you're looking at something to collect, if you can get your hands on a low mileage, not rusted out little K car.

I say you go pick one up as a collector item. And you know what? Side note, they're fun to drive. So you get a fun car out of it.

Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you for the most part. I mean, if K cars ever come to the states and if I remember correctly, again, loving my hat.

He was talking about some car stuff. So that means we get to talk about it.

He was kind of leaning towards having them built in the United States of America. I don't know if we're set up for that.

Yeah.

But I know the good folks at Toyota and Nissan and Suzuki and Dihatsu and all them things, they can refurbish a factory. I mean, they already got all the pieces.

If they already have a factory here, like I think I don't know that that's going to be a short term solution because it takes a minute to tool up a factory.

Right. And that's one of the things that you and I talk about offline because of the business that you're in and the business that I am.

Some people outside of those businesses think you just flip a switch and all of a sudden you can do this thing that you weren't able to do.

That's not how the world works. No.

But yeah, I thought I thought it was a very interesting comment that he made.

I had a concern, though, about that and I want to see how you feel about it is.

Does that car fit the American car buyer persona or just American attitude when it comes to cars?

Because those cars, I mean, I have experienced with them and go ahead. This is my plug.

I have experienced with them in Japan.

Wow. You went to Japan?

I went to Japan. But the way Japanese people use those cars and Asian people use cars outside of China because I've never been there, but I've been to Korea as well.

They just use cars fundamentally different from us.

Sure.

And then that car driving down, let's say that car driving down 40 and a guy in an F-150.

We only got to say something real special.

People have phobias, my neighbor included, have phobias about how small cars are not safe.

I don't know how many people are going to be opting into that.

So I think the market, I think there is a market.

I don't think you're going to convert a lot of soccer moms and commuter guys that are doing, you know, 40 mile one way commutes every day.

I don't think you're going to convert those folks to K car owners.

But your current like inner city public transportation, electric scooter, Toyota Prius, like those kinds of things.

People who are already looking at a used smart car or even segue to the next thing, future vehicle, even the like slate pickup slash SUV.

You know, those customers that are in the market for something that size, a K car is a natural fit.

So I do think there's a there's a market that already exists.

You would definitely be tapping that existing market.

And look, this wouldn't be a 250,000 units a year, you know, product line.

This is a 10, 20, 30,000 unit a year offering.

From a car company that already exists.

That's why I say like, if you're Dahatsu, you're probably not taking over the American market.

And you're probably not even really interested in it.

But but if you're a Toyota or a Subaru, then yeah, offering that extra little thing that you already make in the other markets that you could just throw.

You know, 1500 of them out there to your dealer network near large cities and see how quick they go.

I mean, I don't think it hurts anything.

I think there's a there's a use case for that that maybe I didn't think about until just now is car shares in car shares and cities.

I mean, instead of waiting for consumers to buy it, sell it to like New York or something, you know, to treat it like they treat them scooters, you know, you know, I mean, you know, cap it out.

So it, you know, it stays in city limits is easier to move around in a normal size car in a city limit and limits and stuff.

So I mean, that could be a thing.

But out here out there in the country, to be honest, my folks out there in the country, they they won't even know it existed.

They ain't even looking probably not.

But I will say this, K trucks that are that are imported under the 25 year rule currently are very popular in the rural farm market.

Yeah, because some you can get with a dump bed, some are four wheel drive, you know, some have power takeoffs, you can run extra implements, you can attach snow plows.

And, and honestly, it's a better value by than a side by side for that kind of work.

It's a more usable bed space, heating and air conditioning and half or more than half the price of a side by side.

Right, because I briefly looked at how my side by side costs.

I didn't know they cost as much as cars.

And yes, there are people making $800 a month payments on side by sides.

That is that that that's ridiculous.

That is crazy.

I mean, but that's also goes back to a point that we we've made before and I make often outside of the podcast.

Most people buy more truck than they need or buy a truck when they don't need one.

Yes.

Like you, you know, you live on a ranch and, you know, you got to pull you got to pull horses and cows and things like that.

Always with the exaggeration.

But you do live you live you live in you live in rural America, you grew up in rural America.

You see a truck as much as a tool as it is the vehicle.

I do agree.

Most of these people wear trucks like fashion statements.

And but at the same time, like you was just saying, a lot of farmers and stuff understand the use case of a very small truck, a farm truck.

That's right.

Right.

And most of the people who buy an F-150, I'm not trying to pick on Ford or F-150 drivers.

They don't get it because all they're trying to do is get the biggest fanciest thing.

And the farmer is saying, hey, I need to get this thing that fits on that little bed over there and I'm not carrying it.

Yeah.

You know, yes, I agree.

But I will say, I think if you could figure out a way to break it down or if there was data to be collected, I think people who buy pickup trucks to use them as cars and never ask pickup trucks.

Yeah.

I think that hierarchy is most likely Dodge Ram 1500 and then a GMC and then an F-150 and then a Chevy Silverado probably is bought to be a work truck more than any other truck.

First of all, Ford is still cheating how they do their truck sales.

Actually, all of them are.

Yeah.

They all are.

That's accurate.

And then on top of that, we can't act like Ford don't sell a lot of work trucks.

There's a whole lot of all white F-150s with, I don't even know.

That's racist.

That's a good point.

Why are all work trucks all white instead of black?

Is black more expensive?

Well, no, but it is harder to keep clean and it's a little bit less like visible so logos don't show up as good.

White is probably more of just a blank canvas that, you know, whoever is buying it, company, municipality, government entity, whoever can make it look like whatever they want it to look like easier than they could if it was black.

I agree with you.

However, from a manufacturing standpoint, whatever the manufacturing standpoint.

Whatever the cheapest things should go.

Yeah.

Yeah, it should just be Primer Gray.

Primer Gray.

Roll them suckers out covered in Bondo be done with it.

Exactly.

Bondo pink and move on.

Just put it out there.

Speaking of, so go back to gay cars real quick and small cars.

First of all, not saying your favorite, but what's your not asking you to figure this out?

Let me say it the right way.

I know your answer will change with more thought.

What's your favorite K car or K car adjacent car because I'm not sure my favorite is the actual K car.

Yeah, so K car implies that it's Japanese.

So it would probably have to be.

It's an engine requirement, which is why I don't think that's right requirement, which I don't think.

Well, while mine, I guess it was K car.

I guess it would be the Honda.

Oh, what's the little Honda car?

My brain just went blank.

Oh, man.

If you hadn't asked.

I don't even know if it's still for sale, but I know my mind.

Mine is to be.

Yeah, yeah, the beat.

That's it.

The Honda beat.

In fact, like the rare Honda beat type are, you know, that would that would probably be.

That would probably be my favorite K car.

Now, this is where I'll stretch the rule book a little because there is no rule book because you just asked the question and invented the sport.

Yeah.

Because I'm a married.

A small car, a micro sized car of that caliber that is too small for the US market.

That would be my favorite.

It will probably be the smart roadster.

That is not what I thought he was about to say.

And you said smart car twice in this box.

I know.

I feel like it had been missing a lot from some of our previous episodes.

No, because it should be.

It definitely should be missing.

It felt alone.

It felt lonely.

Like, it's like somebody had stuck baby on the corner over there.

And every time I looked over there, it was like a sad little smart car over there crying Barabbas tears and was like, I need to be on the podcast more.

So, you know, I had to squeeze it in there.

So what you should have said and what I thought you was going to say was to Jimmy.

Yeah.

I mean, the Jimny definitely makes makes a real good case for should be sold in the US.

That's all I would say.

Absolutely.

So if they do bring K cars to the US, I think they just came out with a new Jimny.

Yeah.

The journey would be at the top of my list to actually buy.

Yeah.

100%.

And if you don't know what is what a gym is, you need to Google it right now.

Let's stop put a car over.

Google it and fall in love because it's cool.

I straight up bullied somebody in a rent and a Jimny on vacation in another country and they fell in love.

Now they want one.

I sent you a picture of when I was at a family's house when we are out in the country last year and they live on the side of the mountain.

And their friend was like, I'm not bringing my car here.

I'm bringing it.

I'm bringing the Jimny.

And he just drove right up the hill with no problem.

Jimny.

Because Jimny.

I just think they just think of everything that's good about a Jeep without all the stuff that's bad about a Jeep.

Yep.

That's right.

They don't have they don't have death wobble because they can't go fast enough.

Exactly.

So before we get up, go ahead, go ahead.

No, no, no.

I was going to move to the next thing because I really want to hit you with something that I think is going to surprise you.

And right now you're in a good mood.

So I want to keep you there.

But you go ahead.

What were you going to ask?

I'm going to hit you with another thing that I was saying that is the is pseudo political.

But that was discussed this past week.

So a politician, a person in a important, I think transportation, transportation secretary, he was saying that with the revised or removal or of the cafe rules, which I always we discussed before that.

It's like, hey, they were always going to move that target because they won't be able to get that target.

That's exactly right.

It's going to bring back station wagons.

Fake wood panel, fake wood panel on the side station.

I thought you were about to beat me to my own segue.

I was about to be mad.

I was about to be like, no, you didn't stop talking.

Well, we're going to bring back station wagons.

And the reason I was going to bring up station wagons is I don't know if there's a stronger current concept car lineup out there at the moment.

Then Genesis.

Oh, I purposely did not send this picture, the picture of that car to you because I was hoping that you did not that that you did not see it so I could bring it up to you.

Oh, it was all over.

It was all over my Facebook feed because because I'm part of like some wagon fans club and lift all the cars club and like all these little pages.

So I immediately started seeing coverage of this this thing and I'm telling you right now.

And for those of you that don't know or didn't see, we're talking about the Genesis G 90 wingback concept and beautiful, beautiful.

I mean, I don't even know why Genesis doesn't have this front and center on their website right now.

They even have it on their website.

They try to hide it.

I don't know.

Yeah, because the where people saw that they were talking about different cars and it's like, oh, by the way, we got this other thing outside.

And oh, by the way, it's the best looking thing you've ever built.

It's the only Genesis I've ever seen that I actually really want.

Actually, sadly, it's probably an EV and has a weird automatic sad transmission.

But you know, it's not a V.

The car that they showed is work.

Remember, we're talking last time how the Hyundai automotive group, they'll do a concept car, but it works.

Yes.

And it's like, hey, how far away off is this really from reality?

Right.

That car is legitimately based on the GV 90.

It has the, if my memory serves me correctly, it has the twin turbocharged V6 that's also supercharged, electronically supercharged.

So that's too much of a complicated dagger motor.

But they sell it already.

So I guess that works as well.

But they release a statement saying that they saw the excitement about the car, but there just isn't a case in America for wagons.

And so if the car does come to fruition, it wouldn't be available in North America.

And also, I think you misremembered something.

What's that?

There's another Genesis that you like a whole lot.

It's the G 70 sports sports wagon too.

They did that as well.

I did like the G 70 sports wagon.

Looking at their current EV line though, the X Grand Equator concept, I don't know if you saw that.

It's like a weird Range Rover competitor SUV looking thing.

Yeah.

It's really round and really bulbous, but it somehow works and I like it.

But I like the wagon the best, but my number two spot has to go to the GV 60 Magma.

So that car actually is going to be in production and probably is going to be available in the next couple months.

I think this is the right move for EVs.

Hot hatches are a good market for EVs.

I mean, I've been excited about the X3 or the R3X from Rivian.

This is like the sport version of that, like the on-road sport version of that.

As far as my enthusiast radar is concerned, I mean, 640 horsepower, a 3.5 second zero to 60 time,

which in the world of stupid Tesla is not fast, but the 1.5 seconds is still pretty, pretty quick.

It's pretty fast.

I mean, I was listening to a podcast earlier this week and they were talking about things like this.

And they were talking about how the market for EVs is slowing, something that everybody on the planet with half a bit of brain also.

That is not the most shocking piece of information I've heard today.

It's almost like we were telling GM and Ford and things to not do this three years ago.

Three years ago.

This is a bad idea to invest everything you have until one thing, because when that one thing does not work, you are screwed.

You know what I think it is?

I think there was some confusion about how the car buying industry works.

Not the car manufacturing industry, not the car marketing industry, but the car buying industry.

That is the consumer themselves.

Because what we have seen throughout the years is that car style and car uses, they change over time.

There was a time where people liked sedans and there was a time when people liked wagons.

And then there was a time when people liked minivans and then there was a time when people liked SUVs.

But there has not ever been a time where the entire industry went to a straight six.

Or the entire industry went to a turbocharged four cylinder.

Or the entire industry went to a V8.

But what they have decided is the entire industry of consumers are going to go to batteries.

That was a mistake, because never once in the history of the automobile has every single buyer all wanted the same drivetrain.

Correct.

I can't get my wife to agree with me on what we are going to eat for dinner on a daily basis.

Sure.

One of us just concedes and we eat that.

That's right.

I think I was listening to Doug one time and he actually did not like our idea that evidently was other people came up with the same idea.

You should build electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles, battery electric vehicles and internal combustion powered vehicles all at the same time.

They look exactly the same.

And the thing that the consumer wants, they will buy.

That's right.

You will know.

That's right.

You will know.

You don't have to guess.

Yes.

That means you have to spend money on developing a chassis that can support that.

You are already spending money developing a chassis that supports that anyway.

That's right.

Yeah.

You're right.

We've had this conversation multiple times and I don't understand what the difficulty to see that was.

Other than these irrational impossible cafe standards that we were talking about earlier that were driving people towards a reality that would never become.

And that was, I think that was part of the biggest problem.

Hey, you mentioned your boy Doug and I don't often listen to everything Doug says anymore because Doug and I have some differing opinions on a lot of stuff.

But I heard him very recently in the last couple of weeks since our last podcast.

I heard him agree with me very strongly that the prelude is a huge misstep by Honda.

I think I remember watching that one as well.

I think the big, I don't think that, let me say it the right way.

He basically said it will be Honda's biggest failure in the last 30 years and I don't disagree with him.

I don't think Honda is counting on it to be that big of a hit.

I think they want it to fail.

And the biggest reasons why I don't think they want it to be that big of a hit is because what they priced it at?

Oh, they priced it out of being able to be sold.

That's what Doug was saying is it will be the next car and you love it.

It will be the next car that's on Stanley's list of cars that sold brand new five years after they went out of production.

It will be the next car on that list 100%.

It may be and it may be because the biggest part about that car that I just truly do not understand.

I understand that everybody, every company wants to make money.

Every part, almost every part that makes that car is already being produced.

It should not cost that much.

No, it should not.

Essentially, all it is is a two door Honda Insight.

Actually, we don't got to go back that far.

It's a Honda Civic Coupe.

EV, it's a Honda Civic Hybrid.

Yeah, Honda Civic Hybrid Coupe.

The biggest difference between the cars that it shares most of its pieces with and it has a shorter wheelbase.

But they designed chassis to do this to grow.

So it's not like it's a big deal.

So if it's a Honda Civic Hybrid Coupe, maybe it costs as much as a Honda Civic Hybrid Coupe.

Speaking of big deals, let's talk about the new Gergy T.

Cool, because that was actually where I was about to go.

Because that's an actual big deal and the Gergy T3.

So we were just having a conversation and we kind of hit on the thing of designing a chassis that can support multiple powertrains,

build the car in multiple configurations and let the consumer decide what is going to be the car that's going to be successful.

The car that's going to sell more, right?

And I was going to bring up the good, very good example of how this is already being done.

And not because I like these two companies, but they're just good examples.

Honda Automotive Group and the BMW Automotive Group.

BMW sells a three series that is internal combustion engine with a turbocharged inline four with a turbocharged inline six as a hybrid, as a full electric and as a plug-in hybrid.

You can buy three series and then the fire breather of the T3.

All of this is the same car.

How can they figure that out?

But no one else can.

The answer is they can, because Honda does the same thing.

I think it was the Kia Niro.

It is an internal combustion engine.

It's a hybrid, it's a plug-in hybrid and it's a full EV.

And they have a Hyundai equivalent that does the exact same thing.

It's not that difficult.

And then the go-on to the thing that you just brought up is Toyota just did it.

You got to come up with something.

Why do they suck at naming things?

Boy, you got a problem with four letters in a row and do I'm being the same?

The Gergety is a really interesting car, but it's exactly what you're describing.

My only concern with looking at the Gergety is that how is it going to affect,

the last time you could go by a very high-end, very audacious Toyota of this caliber.

It was Alexis.

And so when this is also Alexis, I'm not so sure.

I feel like it's going to maybe lose some specialness.

I disagree.

I understand where you're going.

I disagree because there's a significant difference,

which goes back to what we were just talking about.

The Lexus is fully electric, which is also a mistake.

Different customer.

The Toyota.

I don't think it is a different customer.

All of these cars, with the exception of the Gergety 3, the Gergety 3 will only be bought by gentlemen racers.

But your standard Gergety and LFA successor,

I hope it's the girl LFA.

That would be great, but it won't be.

It'll just be the Lexus LFA something, LFE or something.

I think there's an LFR or something.

So, you know, whatever Lexus does.

But either way, it's going to be bought by the discerning gentlemen who would like to collect that vehicle

and have it live in his collection next to his LFA.

I agree with you.

That car is the Lexus, and this is why I say it's for two different buyers.

The person who buys that Lexus will probably never put $5,000 on that car a year.

And they never intended to do that because they just want that car to be seen by people who they want to impress.

The battery packs will go bad from being overcharged or not charged enough.

Exactly.

But the Toyota, with its twin turbocharged four-liter V8 hybrid, which performance hybrid, they want you to drive that car.

But nobody will.

Oh, no.

Most people are going to buy it and put it in the car.

There'll be three of them getting driven regularly.

Correct.

But just like a stupid, fancy Porsche, just because the person chooses to do that.

Easy.

There's a lot more stupid, fancy Porsches being driven regularly.

Yes.

But that was the first thing that came to my mind.

And there aren't any stupid, fancy.

There are also there aren't any stupid, fancy Porsches with names as cool as the Gergety.

So I don't know.

Y'all can come up with some weird names sometimes too.

I'm trying to think.

SUVs don't count.

But just my point is, I guess my point is what I take with taking the Porsche name out there.

There are a lot of capable sports cars that are being sold that people choose not to drive.

It doesn't mean the car ain't capable.

It's just it's priced at a point that it's priced at a point and it's going as such a,

it's being sold at such limited quantities that they would, they see it as an investment

as a, more than a car.

Like if you, if you got the Gergety, we're going to be calling this, this for as long as it's a thing.

And you just started at, oh man, we should do Gergety.

Wow.

So, so let me ask you this.

If you had that Toyota, you would drive.

Yeah, I would.

I would drive it.

But it would mean that I have a different kind of money and there would be other stuff I would be driving as well.

And let me be honest with you.

I'm not so sure the Gergety is the high performance hybrid that I want.

If I'm spending that money on a high performance hybrid, my choice is actually going to be the Corvette Zora.

Oh, actually that was not what I thought you was about.

You just said that just to get my attention.

I know you just said that just to get my attention.

And it worked.

Everybody knows what the kids say.

That's right.

Look, it's like I just walked into the kitchen and said the word treat and the dogs heard it.

Right.

I knew exactly what I was doing.

But the crazy thing is, I think that the person who buys this is going to drive it just as much as somebody drives the Zora or I'm trying to think.

Because I mean, those cars are produced in such limited quantities that we'll see all the magazine things and we'll see our guy at Haggerty, you know, get it sideways every time he possibly can.

But the person who buys it is going to drive it to not even cars and coffee.

It got to be more special.

It got to be more special than cars and coffee or cars and coffee.

Unless, you know, you're doing cars and coffee and like Connecticut or something.

That's right.

I'm thinking like Amelia Island.

And yeah, exactly.

Those cars are a couple of times a year and they've got to never rev it, get it to the red line and stuff like that.

But which is sad, which is very sad.

Did you, they are expecting the Gergety to be about as much as a GT3.

Yeah.

I don't know how they're going to pull that off without losing money.

They may very well lose a little bit of money on the Gergety's, but they will make it back up with Toyota Thon.

Come by a Corolla and a Camry and a Highlander and a Grand Highlander and a Crown and a forerunner.

And we will make our money back.

Correct.

I agree with you.

But you know, so they.

So this is weird thing I was thinking about yesterday when I was actually watching a video about this.

They teamed together with BMW to produce a Supra because of cost.

They teamed together with Subaru to get the, the, the, the.

The Grady 6.

But they went by themselves to produce this car with a bespoke.

Did you, you should look at how this transmission is and how it's supposed to work.

It is different.

The cars got some, yeah, the cars got some interesting tech in it for sure.

It is.

Yeah.

Like that.

Like when I was saying performance hybrid, they're using it different from the way Chevy and the hybrid technology is different from the way that Chevy

and Porsche is doing it, but it's more in line.

You remember back in the day when I wasn't so keen on the idea, but you actually brought it to me.

And it was, it was about EVs and, and hybrids swapping classic hybrid EV portraits into classics, which I wasn't that keen on that at the time.

But I, I feel much there.

I'm about 100 and 160 degrees different about it now.

I think that's a very good idea.

But at the same time, you were talking, I don't know who it was, but they were doing a 911 and they put the kinetic motor in the transmission.

That's kind of how Toyota is using with doing with this thing.

Yeah.

So Porsche, Porsche actually did it with a cup car initially.

And it was, it was a way for them to benchmark and beta test the technology before dropping the 918 hypercar on the world.

But using a such a good car.

Yeah, but basically using an electric like flywheel, essentially to build inertia and to recharge batteries and to give extra propulsion on demand as like a boost function.

Essentially like using an EV nitrous oxide for lack of a better term, right?

And again, that's, that's where I come down on being all in favor of the EVs being used as hybrid technology being used as a power adder.

Just like people would look in a turbo or a supercharger, you know, or nitrous oxide or compressed oxygen or whatever you want to use to make your car faster than being naturally aspirated.

I think that's the best use case for hybrid technology.

And I'll continue to say that for quite a while because that minimizes your added weight and you're not solely relying upon an inferior technology and an inferior fuel source for the time being.

I mean, there may come a day in the future where a battery is a better fuel source than a fossil fuel, but it ain't right now.

And I would argue that to my grave.

I don't think you argue that to your grave because I've known you long enough and see and you've known me long enough that we have flipped our opinions on things, but I understand your point.

I completely get your point.

And I think the only real difference.

There's only real difference in viewpoints.

That is, I think performance hybrids are underused and fuel efficient hybrids get more that on the kitchen.

They're overused.

They're almost overused.

Yeah, they're almost overused.

Because, for example, Ford uses a hybrid uses hybrid technologies to get more performance out of their books.

So most of the time.

I'll say this, I'll say this.

I think the overuse of hybrid technologies actually was front loaded.

I think it, it came out wrong and hit the ground running wrong because you had, you remember when you could buy a Chevy suburban hybrid.

And they put hybrid in like 14 inch tall letters on the back tailgate.

You don't see any of those on the road anymore, right?

Because it's pretty much all dead.

Well, that was the wrong use case.

That was the wrong direction of using it as a power adder because you took a heavy vehicle that would have been far better benefited by giving it better fuel management.

In an ice engine, then adding battery complexity and weight and electric motors.

So that was the wrong direction to go.

But using it in a Corvette is the right place to use it.

The problem is they wanted the optics of mass rollout.

EVs are going to, you know, hybrids are going to change the world to make the world a better place.

And we're going to start right where people use them the most and that's at SUVs.

Well, yeah, it got them out there, but it was the worst place possible to start.

It left, it made the image worse than it could have been.

If they had started with the enthusiast community, if they had started with racing and said we're going to solely use it as a power adder and got the people who are most passionate about cars using it.

It would have went mainstream way faster.

This is where I think you are maybe not wrong, but just maybe misread memory.

Anyway, whatever the word is.

That was it.

Cures system in Formula 1.

Cures.

Cures, I say cures. Cures system in Formula 1 cars.

It's hyper technology.

But I do so me say I said that to say that it was in it.

It's currently still is it right yet?

Yeah, it still is and and race cars.

One, those that racing series isn't has never been the most popular racing series in America.

And two, I agree.

Well, not to I agree with you.

It is almost a Tesla model.

Tesla didn't come out with the model S first.

They came out with the roaster first.

That's right.

They wanted to get people excited about it.

That's right.

And that was a missed opportunity.

I would expect Toyota to do exactly what Toyota did and come out with the Prius first.

But at the same time.

Using that technology to excite people like you just said would have that gone got people.

But with adoption would have would have would have occurred faster.

But I do disagree with you and one and one little part.

I don't.

And I'll actually I don't know if you said this, but.

I don't think it's too late yet.

And the reason why I said I feel like that that could be its own.

That could be it.

I didn't say it was, but that could be its own episode of is it too late for the evening.

I think I like where you're thinking that on this.

And I feel pretty comfortable that I could argue both sides.

Like I think I think it is too late.

But I also think there's still hope.

And we I think we should address this and give this more time in 2026 base 2026 y'all 2026.

Yeah, it was just it was just January 2025 with the time though.

Cleveland Cleveland.

It always goes to Cleveland Cleveland Rocks.

But so.

Hey, my first thought about that is.

Volkswagen and Porsche.

Yeah.

Porsche.

Has always been a trendsetter.

Volkswagen has always been a trendsetter.

That is one of the biggest reasons why I am such a why I'm such a fan of that company.

Even though I have never owned one of their products because I just don't want to deal with your German issues.

German.

But.

It was a couple of these.

A couple of it with the non the 911 turbo hybrid now thing and the Corvette in the same in the same vein.

Is.

A good showcase of that technology, even though.

Acura did it 10 years before.

Acura just hasn't had never had the cash shade that either one of those companies have.

I still contend that the the the latest in a sex is one of the most underappreciated sports cars in our diagonal adult life.

It's we can.

I mean, maybe it wasn't quite as fast enough and it wasn't it wasn't that and everything, but it was essentially a remix of what they did the first time.

But.

But yeah, with the with the rate at which people change their minds now and adopt things now, all they need is a all we need is a good champion.

All you need is all you need is a good champion.

The 911 turbo hybrid, whatever the name of it is because it's making it's making its rounds currently and and people love it.

Yeah, people who have driven it love it.

I would love to get my hands on one.

So if you're a Porsche dealer and you're listening, we'll take a press car for sure.

I have.

I don't remember a video where either one of those two cars, those two sports cars that use hybrid technology as a performance additive.

That had bad comments.

I just don't remember it.

And you need you need that.

You need a halo car there and I'm gonna show you it's like it's like you're about to go do something and your friend said, let me show you what this thing can do.

And it just changes you forever.

It's like that first time in your case and see if I remember this correctly.

First time you drove that Subaru back in the day and experienced all the drive.

You remember that story?

It's like, I think I like this.

Yep.

I think I like this.

Yep.

The first time I had a subcompact car with a manual and I grew up in a place where, you know, it was all domestics.

They were all too big and they were all just too much.

And my cousin Ricky Johnson showed up to the yard with a 1990 Mazda MX-6 turbo.

And let me show you that this car is just as fast as that 5.0 GT right now and cleaner and nicer.

And it just it changed me.

I was like, oh, I can do this and I don't have to.

And, you know, the Ford probe shows up.

Yep.

And it's like, you know, I'll tell you my first my first actual experience.

Riding in and then driving also a Japanese import tuner car was in a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

TSI, like all wheel drive, but not the not the fast and furious one.

The version before the gen before the first year.

The one when they had the laser, the eclipse and the Eagle talent and all that.

Yes.

So I had a buddy in high school that got one.

And there was this one one curve in particular that you just knew was like a 30 mile an hour curve.

35 of you are feeling particularly, you know, frisky.

And we run around that thing at like 65 miles an hour.

Yep.

And the tires didn't even squeak.

And I was like, OK, I'm sold.

I had a I had a friend, Jerry in Japan, and I was already here for a performance cars.

But his dude had a severe memory of this car that is Zuzu impulse.

Oh, yeah.

Cool car.

He had a Zuzu impulse and it was modded out because Jerry didn't drive anything stock.

And.

Well, of all the cars, I own Skyline Skyline Turbos.

I have driven R 33 GTRs.

That car.

Yeah.

Was the wildest thing I ever said my buddy broke that car.

You know how people tell the story of driving a viper?

You know, you don't really drive a viper.

You ride a viper and it wants to kill you all the time.

Yes.

That car was the same way.

Torque steer and torque steer in little Japanese roads.

And it was like, oh, I'm trying to find all the ditches.

Let's see if we can.

That car.

That car was crazy, man.

And then his dad had a Mitsubishi GTO, which 3000 GT and it was modded.

And I was like, yo, this may be maybe maybe this is about to hit it.

And then I come back to come back to America and sports compact car world just explodes.

Yeah.

Yeah, it became a thing real quick.

Speaking of speaking of becoming things.

I want to get your initial reaction on some of these.

And then we probably got to wrap this thing up.

Yeah.

Cars that I've been looking at and thinking about that are up and coming.

Some of these we've talked about so we won't spend much time on some of these.

We haven't really talked about so we can kind of hit on them for a second.

Okay.

All right.

Acura RSX EV.

What a sad disappointment that is to bring back the RSX name and do it as a.

High waisted it hatchback, not SUV thing and an EV.

What are we doing Acura?

What are we doing?

It is like you said, Honda, I see what you're doing the prelude there and I like it.

Hold my drink.

I'm going to one up you.

I'm going to bring back the RSX name, which was a cool car.

And I'm going to, I'm going to, it was like, I see what you're doing.

It needs to be she eclipse cross.

I got this.

All right.

What a sad disappointment.

I agree with you.

I do not like the name use of that.

I don't think it's going to be a popular car because also no accuracy are popular cars.

Hot take.

Because we're on the spot because I don't know what cars you're going to bring up.

The prelude should have been RSX should have had RSX man should have had RSX man.

And no hybrid system.

All right.

Moving on.

I'm not even going to go there for it.

They put an accurate badge and RSX badge on it.

It'll sell better.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's sad automatic in a hybrid.

They ruined everything that was a prelude or an RSX.

All right.

Moving on.

We were talking about wagons with the G 90 wing back.

Let's start.

Let's talk about another wagon that I'm excited about, even though it's a hybrid Audi RS five

of a lot.

He a TV.

I'm I don't know much about that.

But if I remember the things I do know about that is the watch.

What was it?

Auto trainer.

I think they either drove it or anyway.

Right.

Wrong.

Right car wrong engine for the purpose that I want or the purpose that you want isn't

going to sell as much because it's a wagon.

And unlike no matter how much we love wagons, America doesn't.

They prefer to call their wagons SUVs.

Well, I'm excited about it because it is a little smaller than the RS six.

Yeah.

And I think being a plug in hybrid.

It's doing the best you can with the, the, the lot in life we've been given with

hybrids, I think.

So I'm not mad at it.

I'm excited to learn more about it.

I wish it was available just as a V eight or a twin turbo V six, but I get it.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.

And if it moves the needle, a one more like incremental move towards more wagons

that I'm here for it.

I agree with you.

And when I say it has the wrong powertrain, it is because Audi is a part of the

Volkswagen automotive group and that technology that we were just talking about

in that, in that 911 should be in that Audi.

Agree.

All right.

Speaking of Audi, we have a TT replacement coming.

I did not know about this.

I haven't seen any pictures yet because I don't think there are any, but there is

an Audi TT replacement coming sometime 26, 27.

What?

All right.

I did not know that Audi TT underrated one of the best underrated cars in our adult

lifetime.

Also, one of the cars on the list that isn't $10,000 yet, but first generation

TTs are going to be instant classics.

Yeah, they might.

They might be.

All right.

Do you remember the first time you saw that with the baseball crown interior?

Yeah.

Yeah, with the stitching.

I don't think it's aged well, but it was unique at its time.

The Corvette Zora, we talked about it briefly.

Everything that I said a year and a half ago about the e-ray and why it made sense

as a Corvette and that I was here for it.

Now they're taking the e-ray and giving it the ZR1 treatment, right?

Because it is everything ZR1 plus the e-ray drivetrain.

Yep.

I honestly, in the world of like crazy stupid fast cars, I'm excited to see what this thing

does.

Would I ever for a moment consider buying one even with unlimited resources?

Probably not.

But am I excited about it?

Absolutely.

I'm excited for it as well.

Let me set it the right way.

I hope that people who actually can afford to get this car or get their hands on it actually

drive it.

Yeah, because I think the performance of this thing is going to be capable of.

It's going to be nuts.

Speaking of the opposite of that.

I'm looking at first generation Audi TT's right now.

Just so you know that you have this in my head now.

Well, speaking of the exact opposite of the Corvette Zora, not a car that I would never

buy, a car I would really be excited to find a reason to buy and a car that didn't get faster

probably got slower, the Mustang Raptor.

You know, I love the lift all the cars off road mentality and the Porsche, the car and

the Lamborghini Sturratos are just my cup of tea.

And so the fact that Ford is going to let their engineering build a Mustang Raptor and

sell this thing as a lifted off road desert running Mustang.

That's not an SUV crossover and is not electric is just about the coolest thing.

I think an automaker has done in the last 30 years because nobody saw that coming from

Ford and I'm all about it and and and I want one and haven't even seen one yet.

But if I can get a five liter V8 with a manual and 33 inch be of good range all terrains on

a three and a half or four inch lifted Mustang with a roof rack on it, sign me up.

That's my daily driver.

Did not know that that was a thing.

I'm looking at it and I'm looking.

I'm sure these are renders, renders and they are generated thing.

One of them is actually from Ford authority.

So I know it is.

I'm not mad at it.

If if if Porsche can do it with a 911 for to do with a Ford can do it with a Mustang and

that's what I'm saying and good.

We have talked about how the Mustang and the 911 both share this weird space in the car

world where one car has to do a bunch of things.

Yeah, I so I heard a theory today, right?

And I would I haven't listened to the whole podcast.

I think it was auto.

Anyway, I'll tell you what it is.

So they asked a question.

They were driving.

They drove two Mustangs.

There's over a coupe of the EcoBoost coupe with the sport track and it had a 5.0 convertible,

which is in their fleet to drive.

You know, Ford sends you these cars.

So you're driving.

Yeah.

And they they asked a question.

Why is it the Camaro again?

It's the Mustang.

It's the last pony car that's left again.

Right.

Yep.

So and this has happened several times over a lifetime.

It's like, why is it the Mustang always is the the car that's left again of myself.

And their theory was not never really heard it put this way.

And I but I kind of subscribe to it so far.

And I want to just get your quick thoughts on this.

The Mustang never came to when from its inception was not the fire breathing sports car thing.

It was it was the secretary car.

Yeah.

And then it got and then it got faster and then Shelby got his hands on it and it became the Mustang that we all know and love.

Right.

But when the Camaro came out on the heels of the Mustang, it was always had to be this all around mixed between sports car and that on the sports car.

Pony car.

So it had to always be that because that's what it was from the start.

It was.

Hey, and then what dodge and crisis them they their cars were a little bigger and there was just almost like a slightly shrunk down that muscle car versus being a pony car.

So the Mustang in their mind, the Mustang always stuck around because it always occupied multiple spaces at the same time.

And it always and it always had to.

It always had to.

But but the part about it is it never really got shamed for it.

Right.

Because you know, you know what Chevrolet had before they had the Camaro was the Corvette.

Yeah.

So Chevy really really created a Camaro as a competitor to the Mustang, but it was duplicating a sporty car driving experience that they already offered with the Corvette.

But the Corvette was never really a competitor to the Mustang.

So I think that's part of it too.

I dodge.

I don't even know what to think.

But I think the Mustang.

The Mustang has a better staying presence because it has always been consistent and it's it's never while it has often punched above its weight and horsepower.

It's never really tried to be more than what it really what it is.

What's your point?

It's always just been a good sounding, good cruising highway car.

Up until let's say the GTD or the dark horse all of a sudden is a race car.

I was about to say that.

But the other part about that is.

It was just it was also just as comfortable as being for lack of better terms.

The secretary car that it was always was.

That's right.

We as much as we may look at we may drive by back in the day because I don't even know if they still do this.

The rental car, the Mustang rental car or the four cylinder Mustang that you know the kind of preppy girl had in school or whatever.

That you know, you always saw that car and it was a 5.0 GT and you was like that just makes sense.

That's right.

But but if it was Camaro, it had to be the C 28 or the Iraq or or it wasn't cool.

Yeah, you didn't see people going out of their way to buy a six cylinder Camaro.

Yeah, it just it wasn't it seemed like it was like never comfortable in that other space where the Mustang was.

That's right.

And that's that's been the reason why I was has been able to stay around for as long.

Also, do you know you got to pay $50,000 to get a VA Mustang now?

Yeah.

That's right.

All right.

So Mazda MX five update coming.

Uh huh.

No, I'm excited to see more about that.

Yep.

I agree.

Also Mazda formula.

Right.

Don't mess up the formula, which I don't think they will.

Mazda rotary return.

Question mark question mark question mark.

I think I don't.

I don't know which car is going to get the look of that concept car, but I always thought that concept car was pretty.

And here's a question for a future episode.

Bring this back up.

Is the rotary the right power plant to support an AV?

As we can.

We again, we're going to go back and address this more.

I think the rotary is uniquely suited to be a Rev.

The end of Rev.

A range of standing to be as a power generator.

It will run at the same RP info forever.

Just leave it.

Don't turn it off.

You just got to keep feeding oil to it.

Turn it off and don't don't turn it off and just let it go.

All right.

Here's here's two for you that you wouldn't maybe not have thought was going to be on here.

And actually we'll stop at this because most of the rest of these we've all talked about.

Well, I'll tell you what, we'll do this one first and then we'll get to the ones to stop on Toyota MRT.

Are they going to do better than the prelude?

I haven't.

Or is it going to be Toyota's answer to the prelude?

I haven't heard anything about that.

If they do not mess with the formula, it will do well.

They already have an engine.

I don't know if they have a chassis, but they got an engine.

The motor from the GR Corolla and the Yaris just use that.

Yes.

100% 100% agree.

Sticking in the back of something and we are fine with that.

Dude, I mean, I think if they did that, it would be all hands on deck at Porsche.

Because something would have to change with the Boxster.

Yeah, I think they're going to come off that.

I really do think they're going to come off that.

I think there is going to be a change in philosophy that there will be.

The EV is obviously going to come off first.

But I think they're going to have to come back with an internal combustion engine.

Maybe a performance hybrid Boxster.

And then create the same problem that they've always had with the Boxster.

Yes.

Okay.

Because we like that problem, Porsche.

It's a good problem to have.

That's right.

And finally, Polestar 5 and more controversial Polestar 6.

Which one is it?

The 4 is the one that doesn't have a back glass, right?

And the 5 is the kind of coupe and the 6 is the convertible.

All right.

Well, let's talk about that for a second.

Because who currently makes a fully electric convertible?

I have been waiting for this to happen.

The only people who currently make a fully electric convertible,

which I don't actually think they sell, is Cadillac.

Who else?

Nobody.

I mean, I don't think many offers the convertible in the EV.

No.

So nobody makes a fully electric.

Cadillac, Celesteco, whatever that thing.

They have that as a convertible as well.

I don't know if they...

Is it a convertible or is it a cloth top rollback, like a Jeep or a...

No, no, no, no.

The super expensive...

I don't know if it was just a concept car, but I remember seeing it.

I think that was a concept.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think this will be the first production convertible full EV.

It may be.

And to be honest, I'm completely...

I'm surprised that it hasn't been a thing yet.

Because, I mean, I'm not a convertible person, but...

No, no, no.

I'm not either.

But think about the experience you want in a convertible.

It's just like my conversation about electric off-roaders.

Yeah.

In the last episode, you want to be able to enjoy the nature.

Yeah.

If you're a nature person, what's better to do it in a convertible with no engine sounds?

Yeah.

Now, you do have to listen to that weird, like spaceshipy tractor beam noise, you know,

that EVs are prone to make.

So, maybe they got to figure that out, Polestar.

I'm sure you guys got to have a team of Swiss folks working on that.

But yeah, I just saw that and I was like, huh, nobody's got an EV convertible.

Yeah.

I was talking to somebody else about that.

And I think it's a really good use case.

Also, with the exception of the Mustang, name another convertible that caught up.

And the Mustang and the MX-5, name another convertible that costs under $60,000.

You probably can't get a two series for under 60.

They don't sell it no more.

Oh, they don't have the two series convertible anymore.

It's just got three.

Yeah, I can't think of anybody else.

I don't even know if they still sell the three series convertible.

Nobody really builds convertibles anymore.

Are convertibles dead?

Is that an episode?

Who killed the convertibles?

With the exception of the MX-5 and the Mustang.

And does a Jeep count?

Does a Wrangler count?

No.

They're marching over your head.

Because if that counts, because I'm not counting the Mustang, the Corvette convertible as a convertible.

You still get a Carrera?

It costs $150,000.

But you can still get it.

It still exists.

You can't get it.

You can get it.

You know, you got ranch money.

I ain't got ranch money.

Ranch money?

What do you talk about?

But yeah, the convertibles did die, man.

Yeah.

I mean, who killed them?

Mini Cooper still got a convertible.

Oh, they do?

Yep.

Oh, there are 12.

I just found them.

Okay, so let's just name some.

So you tell me the ones we just named.

We're going out on convertibles for 2025.

All right.

There you go.

So we got the Miata.

You named it.

Yep.

Mustang.

You named it.

Yep.

BMW does have two.

Neither one or the three series.

The Z, which I think is out of production,

goes out of production this year.

And 25.

Yeah, these are.

No, no, 24.

Z four.

Still get it in 26.

So, but base price is 57.

So to your point over 50.

What other BMW is a convertible?

I'm trying to think.

I mean, you just got to count numbers, buddy.

I know.

But because I don't, I thought they got,

they got rid of the two.

Didn't they?

Yep.

They got rid of the two.

They don't, the threes are so bad now.

So it's not four.

They ain't got no more coupes.

It's the four.

You can still get that.

Yep.

All right.

I haven't seen one of them in so long.

Wow.

Go ahead.

So we got the, that's, we'll count that's four.

All right.

Porsche.

Yep.

Actually, the Porsche is just the boxer.

I guess right now there's nine to nine 11.

Oh crap.

According to BMW's website, you can get a four series convertible

and an M four convertible and an eight convertible and an M eight convertible and the Z four convertible.

I didn't know you could get the eight convertible.

Oh, it's on here.

Eight.

Yep.

All right.

So that's number six.

Uh huh.

All right.

What else?

You got a couple more guesses.

We're halfway there.

Um, they're going to call the Corvette a convertible.

Yes.

Um, I don't really subscribe to that.

Um, any other Americans know that America's really sell cars.

So, uh, no, um,

does Alexis have one?

I don't think.

Um, I don't know.

Oh, hold no.

Bentley, I think you can still get as a convertible.

Oh, the nine 11 is on here.

I don't know why these aren't in like alphabetical order.

They may be about price.

That would explain it.

Okay.

They're about price.

I would imagine you can still get the Bentley or Rose Wars as a

convertible.

We're just going to back up and give you these things in price

because this the order of this is all jacked up and I'm not going

to be able to keep it track.

Cool.

All right.

So obviously the cheapest is the Miata.

Right.

Yeah.

Base price 30,765 bargain Mustang 42,190.

Z four.

57,275.

Four series.

61,775 or 98 for the M four.

Okay.

Mercedes.

AMG.

CLE.

CLE 300 is 69 to the CLE 53 is 85 seven.

The Porsche Boxster at 76 eight.

The Chevy Corvette at 78 nine.

The eight series at 104 five.

The Lexus LC 500 convertible.

Yeah.

Still on sale in 26 for 109 200.

Beautiful car.

The Mercedes Benz AMG SL 113 700.

The 911 Cabriolet at 148 250.

150,000 dollars.

The Ferrari 296 GTS.

We shouldn't become Ferrari's.

Well, we shouldn't at 379 950.

Exactly.

And that rounds out your 12 convertible still available in 2026.

So that means that Bentley is still not a thing.

I just found one that I don't think you said on that list.

That is the Mercedes Maibach SL Roadster.

No, I did not say that.

But that's probably because that's the limited production run.

Not truly a production car.

It looks like it's based off the AMG SL Roadster, which I did name.

So that is a weird looking car.

Why do Maibach always look weird?

Because people who spend a lot of money want everybody to know that

their car looks different.

I agree.

And on that note.

Yep.

Oh, it's pretty.

I'm sorry.

I just clicked it now.

Oh, they have Maibach emblems on the hood.

I apologize.

Yeah, like Bill just said, on that note, everybody have a,

we hope 2025 was awesome for you.

Or at least gave you some awesome moments.

I pray that 2026 will be better than 2025.

Yeah.

And listen, let me, let me throw this out there.

This is just a, not to end on a sad note or a somber note or anything bad,

but 2025 is coming to a close.

It's the holiday season.

For some people, the holidays are a lot of fun and enjoyable,

but for other people, the holidays can really be a struggle and can be hard

for people, especially people who, you know, have went through some tragedies

in their life or have lost loved ones.

And I'm just going to be honest with you guys, man, just 2025 as a whole was a

really crappy year for losing people that for me personally, you know,

my dad passed on December 31st.

I lost a coworker in January.

I lost a good friend that I'd known my whole life.

There's been a guest on our podcast in the spring.

And then lost my nephew in the summer.

And then last week lost another friend.

And, you know, it's just, it's a hard time a year if you're struggling with,

with feeling alone or down or, you know, just not sure what to do next.

Just know there are people out there who do love you and care about you.

And just like we end all of our episodes, you know, we like to take the time to remind

each other that we've been friends a long time and we love each other.

And, you know, we may not know you guys personally that are listening,

but we love you too.

And so if there's nobody else you can talk to, send us an email, reach out.

100%.

We will take the time to get to know who you are and listen to what you got going on

because we recognize that it can be hard and everybody needs somebody.

So the least we could do is be somebody even for just a couple of days.

So don't do anything that would make everybody else's life worse without

you around just because the holidays are tough.

So that's my PSA for the year, for the episode to round out the year and

to round out the season.

I don't think I could have said it better.

Yeah, so I'm not going to try to.

I love you, Bill.

I love you, Stanley.

Now y'all later.

Kei Cars for everybody

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