This is a classic Porsche 911 from 1967, specifically the 911S version. The point here is that the car was offered for about $15,000, but the host believes it was worth much more—showing how collectible 911 prices have climbed a lot.
Here, “bubble” means the car market is getting overheated—prices are rising too fast because of hype and people expecting prices to keep going up. The host is saying it got even more intense later.
The Ford Mustang is a sporty car made by Ford. People talk about it a lot because it’s known for being fun to drive and for having strong engine options. It’s often mentioned alongside other famous performance cars.
The AMC Javelin is a muscle car made in the 1970s. Muscle cars are designed to feel powerful and exciting, especially with bigger engines. The podcast mentions it because it’s one of the well-known classic cars from that style of era.
The Porsche 356 is one of Porsche’s earliest famous sports cars. It’s important because it helped define what Porsche would become—lightweight, fun, and very “Porsche.”
Term
pre-impact
“Pre-impact” is shorthand for an older 911 that predates later safety/bumper design rules. It’s basically an earlier front and rear bumper setup compared to newer versions.
They’re talking about a 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo. It’s a classic Porsche with a turbocharged engine—one of the big reasons these cars are so desirable today.
“Boxer” describes the engine shape where the cylinders move opposite each other. Porsche uses this style in many of its cars, and it helps the engine sit low in the car.
They mean a 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera. It’s the naturally aspirated “regular” 911 (not the Turbo), and it’s a popular classic for driving and collecting.
Term
market could fall out
They mean the prices people pay for these cars might drop. If that happens, it can change what you’d get when you try to sell.
“Pushrod” describes a type of engine design where parts inside the engine use rods to open the valves. It’s a mechanical way of getting the camshaft’s motion to the valves.
This means the car’s gearbox is from Porsche. Since the speaker is talking about a modified race car, the point is that the swap affects how the car drives and how well the parts integrate.
They talk about how to think before changing your car. The speaker’s main message is: figure out your real reason for modifying, and don’t assume aftermarket parts will work as perfectly as the original ones.
They recommend taking a driving school course before doing performance mods. The idea is that better skills can make the car safer and more fun than just adding parts.
A “megaphone” is a race exhaust shape that sticks out and is louder than a normal muffler. Racers use it to help the engine breathe and make more power.
Term
911 R hitters
“911 R hitters” sounds like a specific race exhaust/header setup for the Porsche 911 R. The host is saying it bolts on in place of a normal muffler and works with the megaphone exhaust.
“Small valve” means the engine’s valves are smaller than a larger-valve setup. Smaller valves can limit airflow, so racers often change valve sizes to get more power.
“Rear wheels” refers to measuring power at the wheels that actually drive the car. That number can be lower than engine power because some power is lost through the drivetrain.
Richie Ginther was a well-known race driver connected with Porsche in the 1960s. Here, the host says he was involved with race-car development and wanted to understand how they found more power.
Term
seat reduction cars
“Seat reduction cars” likely refers to a specific Porsche racing preparation involving reducing valve “seats” (the valve seat area in the cylinder head) or related head work. The speaker contrasts it with “big valves,” implying a head/valvetrain tuning approach.
Trans Am was a big American racing series for sports cars. The host is saying the race they were doing helped connect into what became the Trans Am series.
SCCA is the Sports Car Club of America, a big U.S. organization that runs road racing events. The host is saying their racing scene was tied to SCCA before Trans Am expanded locally.
An injection pump is a fuel-delivery device. It helps send the right amount of fuel to the engine at the right time so the car runs smoothly and makes power.
A hairpin turn is a very tight corner where you basically have to turn back on yourself. It’s a good test of brakes and how well the car stays under control when you’re slowing down hard.
The Volkswagen Bora is a regular passenger car model made by Volkswagen. It’s not mainly known as a race car, but it can still be interesting to listen to and drive. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because someone thought it sounded especially good.
The Maserati Bora is an Italian sports/grand touring car with the engine in the middle. The host is saying it sounds especially good—like a standout exhaust note.
The Porsche Carrera GT is a very rare, very fast sports car made by Porsche. It’s the kind of car people want to drive at least once because it’s special and hard to get. The podcast is using it as an example of a dream car.
They’re talking about a Porsche Cayenne with twin turbochargers. It accelerates really hard, and they had to get used to that punch before they could drive it confidently.
They’re talking about a Ferrari 355 Spider, which is a mid-engine supercar with the top down. They love how it sounds, but they don’t like driving it because they can’t see as well as they want.
Brakes are what slow the car down and help you stop safely. The speaker is saying this road is fast enough that you really need strong, dependable braking.
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Welcome to Porsche Patter with Bracken Helms, the show where we hear Bracken and his distinguished
guests from the Porsche community patter on about Porsches and all things automotive.
Porsche Patter is sponsored by Circuits Explore. Circuits Explore creates authentic automotive
apparel made for life-minded automotive enthusiasts. The links for Circuits Explore are in the show
notes. Okay, let's get to it.
Keith Waterin, part two. All right. In this one at one point, he talks about a 1967 911S
and the lady got an offer for 15 grand. And he's like, man, she should have taken it. This
interview was not that long ago. I guarantee the car was worth more than 50 grand even back then.
I mean, what's it been? 10 plus years, not like a lot more than that.
A 1967 911S, it had to have been more than 50 grand even back then. Then we're talking about a bubble.
Oh my God. Yeah, it was about to explode because the things price were just way too out of control.
Oh my God. They've probably for sure, like probably even doubled or tripled since then.
For sure. Like there's so much more now. I mean, this is way before the pandemic. They are so much
more now. This bubble, if it was a bubble then, it's a real big sun bitching bubble now.
I always have to listen back to this more often. I mean, I do remember him like recommend, oh,
you should talk to my friend like, like in here you can hear, oh, you should talk to,
he brings up Denny Acres and I'm listening back to this like the other day. Oh, maybe I should post
this. So maybe I should turn this into a podcast and then I'll look up this Denny, I'll look up
Denny Acres. He died in March, like all this time and he just recently died within months ago.
You got to understand this was like, I was just doing this kind of for fun. Like this was like
long time ago. This was before like trying to sell it to publications. This was back in the
little local newsletter of the PCA. So I was just doing it because I was enjoying talking to these
people. Anyway, so Denny talks about his racing days. So I looked it up and I'm searching the
internet and it sounded like he said mission mill. But as I'm doing the research, he must have said
mission bell because there's a mission bell 250 that's connected to the Trans Am series.
And you know, when I first looked it up, it's like javelins, mustangs,
chameros and I'm like, he drove a Porsche though. But then I looked more into it and there's above
two liter class and a below two liter or two liter and a below. So it must have been like a two liter
which would make sense because when he say it was, I think he said it was the 60s.
If it was a 70, then we're 2.2 unless he'd say, I don't know, whatever.
There is such a series. It was like a Riverside mostly, but like he said, like it was at Sears
Point such that he talks about like a Shelby driver. So I'm thinking, I need to call John
Morton and ask him about this because he knows everything about the Shelby days.
But he just mentioned it like, oh, a driver like, okay, was it like someone just that worked at Shelby
that, you know, knowing him, it could be someone huge and you know, he's just not name dropping
because he's just, this is just conversation for him. Hell, it might have been John, who knows.
So I should ask him who he might be talking about. I think my favorite part about all this is like
him talking about his dog. I remember like coming in and every time I came to his shop,
he'd like introduce me to his dog. Hey, this is my dog. I'm asking him like, what's your favorite
driving around? He's like, like he feels guilty because he's like, I can't just leave my dog
home like I'm going to have fun driving Porsches and I'll leave him at home.
Like his dog's his number one concern. I mean, he talks about it just in this interview like
multiple times. Anyway, so here's Keith Waterman, part two.
So if you went to the Porsche dealership today and had to buy a new one, which car would you buy?
The money? Yeah. Which is your favorite? I probably go for Diane.
What model or series Porsche is your favorite?
Like, I mean, if it's a 911, it could be SC, you know, pre-impact, Carrera 964993, 356.
I don't know, things, things, you know, you're in your life and you're really warm.
I would love to have a 96 twin turbo, but now I start and look at it, what they cost. I mean,
what would you they would bring if you if you wanted to sell it? You think, man,
I've got a 79 turbo that I've done a lot of work on and it's so expensive. I mean, it's valued
way up there and I don't even enjoy driving anymore. And soon it's worth too much money. I
might have screwed up and lose it, you know, slam into something. I don't want, I don't,
it takes some of the pleasure out of driving. You know, my boxer, you know, for 10 grand, so what,
you know, you stumpy, you stumpy. Yeah, last time I was here, I told you, like, I have 85 Carrera,
a little miles, it's like, perfect. It was great when I first got it, like,
but now the price just started to rise. I'm like, I don't feel good about taking it to the track.
It'd be nice to find one that's already beat up. So I don't feel like I'm willing to beat it up.
Yeah, I mean, it's just, the car, we're so much now, just 67 911s sitting out here.
I've had that in my barn for eight years and I'm trying to talk a lady into selling it. You know,
she can get some money and, you know, get her out of her mind. She doesn't have enough money to go
around and got to fill it off with her 50 grand for it. She turned them down. There's a bubble up
here. Yeah, you know, the market could fall out. I mean, it's, it's, it's like the housing market
was here in 2005, 2006. You know, you just stick a pin in just to see if you feel it. And man,
the whole bottom fell out of everything. And that's where I think Porsche, the old Porsche
market is right now. Very fragile. I would like to see her get some money out of her. She could
pay me what she owes me and move along. Yeah. Last time I read the 73 RS, like it just kept going,
keeps going, keeps going. They brought like a million and a half. And then like, I mean,
I remember when they thought it was too much, when it was 400 grand, when it went from 70 to
around 200, then when it was like 400, like probably three years ago, around 400. Yeah.
You know, I think we've got to look at it. Something's worth what more than one person
is willing to pay for it. Yeah. And if the people that are sitting there bidding on it,
if they both have a calamity in their life, it's worth half of what they paid for it, you know.
Yeah. And so what model series Porsche is your favorite? My favorite. We already had to add to
that. I don't know if we did or not. Probably the one I'm most comfortable with. Oh, did you
say the, oh, you said 993 turbo? Yeah, that's probably the, it drives good. It isn't pale happy
and runs very strong, but they're getting to be worth so much money. I hesitate to go out and
take it out and drive it. I have a friend in Seattle who I need to talk to.
The name is Denny Akers. He's got the little Cooper, the Cooper sports racing car from 1955.
He's got a Porsche, a pushrod, four cylinder in it and Denny Baker, Denny Aker, Aker, like A-K-E-R.
Uh-huh. And he has a shop downtown Seattle. His son's running it now. His name is Mark.
And Denny and I worked together. We got drafted the same week in 1961. Got our draft notices
and we've stayed in touch. I've been up there a couple of times to see him and he's been down
over to Laguna Sega with these little Cooper. It was a Cooper sports racing car and it's got
a Porsche engine. So they called it a Cooper. The car originally was a Cooper sports racing car.
This thing I think weighs 900 pounds. Okay. And you know, a lot of aluminum. It has the,
the Porsche transmission and engine. And he took first place at the Concord's at Pebble Beach here
2004, 2003, 2004, somewhere back in there. Anyway, Pete Lovely used to drive the one that Denny has
and that was back in, you know, in the early 60s. But he's got a whole museum full of cars and stuff
up in Seattle. He showed me a Stanley steamer that he took on vacation up into Canada and put
a thousand miles on it. Okay. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to modify their car?
First question I would ask why. Okay. Porsche did a very good job building the car.
I don't like modifications because nothing ever fits quite like the original parts fit.
You put on something to get more power or better performance. You may get it in this area here,
but you lose it over here. I was talking to Hayden over at Wevo. Yeah. He says some of these cars
are getting old now. He's convinced that they think they need to modify it, but they just don't have
them dialed in properly. Well, if you brought your car in to me, you want to do modifications to it.
First question I've been asked is why. And if you want performance driving, I'm going to send you
to driving school before I touch your car. That's what they all say. And I mean, you go learn to
use what you've got before I give you something to go kill yourself. And I mean, I've had probably a
couple dozen people have come back and thanked me for, you know, there's nothing wrong with my car.
It's just great, you know, when they come back. But before they went, they thought, well, maybe,
you know, I could do better if I had this or if I had that, you do better if you improve yourself first.
Right. I had the privilege of doing the testing on an R-Race car back in the 60s, 67, 68.
I drove it from Harbor City out to Willow Springs racetrack with a dealer plate hanging on the back
of it. Numbers on the doors, megaphone out the back, two megapones off the back. I had a...
What do you mean megaphone is that exhaust? They were tapered exhaust right out. They came off the...
I had the 911 R hitters and then I just had a megaphone that I think they were 18 inches, I think.
I can't remember now, but it bolted on where the, like a muffler went on a 67 or whatever.
And that megaphone just came right out and it had a bracket to support them.
So your race car was what? I think it was a... It was a 68 911 L small valve, dyno dead at the
warehouse here in Culver City. I think there was a 178 horsepower we had on the rear wheels.
Richie Ginther was there. He did the seat reduction cars and he wanted to know how I got
more power out of that than he did on the Fs, that big valves. But the fellow that drove it
worked for Shelby and they had a head man that did the heads for the Culver's and he was good.
We'd meet Peter Briggs at Riverside with it. He brought it down. He was beating everything
in the sedan class. He couldn't keep up with our car. He was going back to the factory every two
weeks and bringing a fresh motor back straight from the factory and he couldn't stay with us.
What race was this? This was the Mission Bell 250. It became the Trans Am series that we raced.
And we were in SCCA but when the Trans Am came out here we ran Sears Point and Laguna Sega.
So it was SCCA but you just didn't travel when they came out here. We didn't do much
traveling across country. We took a 79-11S back to Atlanta in 1970 Thanksgiving time
and had a green driver. I mean it was his first year driving and I don't know where we placed with
it but he passed a 904 going down the long straightaway at Atlanta.
He pulled out, caught him and passed him going down the straightaway. We had a thing running pretty
good. Voschek came up to him, pat me on the back. He said you got that thing running real good. He
said I got an injection pump there. We put that on and he said I think you could do it a little bit
better. Voschek knew him real well. We got to race with Steve McQueen and you know it was a fun
era that we worked in. My son and Chad used to play under the car carrier that I bought our car
track with. They were racing out there. It was fun. I enjoyed, I still enjoy more kind of cars. I
wouldn't still be working. Favorite driving routes? There's no place around here that got any fun to
drive. We took our boxer up to Tahoe in the January 1st part of February and we drove up to
Truckee and went, took Highway 20 going up down 80. For Sacramento it took out on Highway 20
and went down to a little town called Washington, California. Now that was a fun road in the boxer.
It got to show how good its brakes were. I mean it just, it was a fun ride. My wife didn't even
get nervous. I was shocked. I mean I'm coming down the hill into a hairpin turn that's about 110
and I shifted down twice, tapped the brakes. I don't know. Gone. But Old Priest grade is a fun
road to run. I don't know it that well. I've only run it probably a dozen times. What was that at?
Oh dear, how do you get there? That's right here. Before you get to Jamestown you took Highway
108 and you go along the upper end of Don Pedro. I can get there but I don't know.
Sometimes the roads disappear in my mind. Pull up a map, find it in the heartbeat.
There's a fish hatchery right at the bottom of it. But if you switch backs it would be a good run
if somebody could get clearance to close it off and do a hill climb. It would be a blast.
I lost about 88 Thunderbird coming down there one night. That's all I worked for in Southern
California. He was fun to work for. They like buying exotic cars. They went down one time they came
in with a Maserati Bora. That was one of the sweetest sounding cars I've ever heard.
So what gets you excited? What gets me excited? Yeah. I don't get excited about cars too much
anymore you know. That's kind of why I asked. Some people are burnt out. I don't know if I'm
burnt out. I mean I just feel like why don't you drive this Porsche? I like the little room
in the pickup and my dog can get in there. I like my dog. He goes just about everywhere I go.
If the boxer would get used probably 10 times as much as it does if I didn't have him.
But I'm not going to leave him home so I could go out and have fun in the Porsche you know.
I drive forces every well every day I drive at least one sometimes two or three.
Cars don't excite me like they used to you know. Oh man BMW is a great car. It's just a car.
I just don't get off on. I would love to drive that that Carrera GT but I've got to have it for
half a day. I can't have it for half an hour. I mean I'd be I'd be afraid to do anything in it
until I got used to it. You know I've got to get the feel for it or you're going to
you know overdo it. First time I got into a Cayenne twin turbo I jumped on a thing out here
it's like whoa man I got to do that half a dozen times and then I can you know get my foot in it
to stay in it but it just you know I wasn't ready for the acceleration. What's your thoughts on
Porsche today and all their models and how much bigger they've gotten. Wow well they seem like
they're trying to become a big car company. I don't know that that's a bad thing.
We have a Ferrari that comes in. What do you call that thing it's a 355 Spider?
That is one of the sweetest sounding vehicles I've ever driven but do I get excited about driving it?
No you know it's another car. I can't see out of it so good so I don't like driving it. I like
something I can look over my shoulder. Okay old preschool grade here uh where'd it go right here
this is Marcus and there's a fish hatchery here and then you got big oak flat and grove one up here
but um that is a fun road. I mean you're not going to get over 70 mile an hour on it and then you
better better be praying that your brakes are real good. Yeah um did you used to work at
Taylor's? Yeah I worked there for a few years I don't remember exactly how long it was probably six
years. That was like a while ago right? That was before Taylor left. I left there in 90 early part
of 92. Yeah those are the guys that don't get down good days. Yeah he's at least not from Taylor.
Okay well that's all my questions.
Thanks for joining us for today's episode. If you enjoyed the show please subscribe comment
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get together again for our next episode. Now get out there and enjoy the cars and the people.
About this episode
Pricing, driving feel, and racing history collide as the hosts talk through classic 911 values, including a 1967 911S offer that was “15 grand,” and the way today’s market can make ownership feel risky. They compare turbo 911 and 993 Turbo experiences, then zoom into period Porsche racing: an R-Race testing story, megaphone exhaust details, and how the “Mission Bell 250” became the Trans Am series they raced. The episode closes with practical driving and modification philosophy.
Keith Waterman is an old timer in the Porsche world. He owned Euro Trends, which is a Porsche shop. He has worked on Porsches since 1960.
In this episode we talk about: -Favorite Porsche models. -Advice to someone who wants to modify their Porsche. -His racing days. -Favorite driving route. -What he thinks about Porsche today.
