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Kenny Wallace Interview
Kenny Wallace Interview
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About this episode
Kenny Wallace opens up about his enduring passion for racing, the challenges of staying relevant, and the evolving NASCAR fanbase. He shares heartfelt stories about his relationships with legends like Dale Earnhardt Sr. and his brother Rusty Wallace, highlighting the tough love and support that shaped his career. Kenny reflects on NASCAR's changing culture, the importance of showmanship, and the deep connection fans have with short track racing. The conversation also touches on the pressures faced by modern drivers and the nostalgic spirit that keeps Kenny racing dirt cars at 62.
Topics:
kenny wallace career
nascar fan engagement
short track racing
dale earnhardt sr
rusty wallace relationship
nascar culture changes
racing showmanship
driver legacy and pressure
dirt racing passion
sponsorship and branding
Kevin Harvick is joined by former NASCAR driver and fan favorite Kenny Wallace for a wide-ranging and entertaining conversation. Together, they look back on their shared history, discuss how Kenny’s big personality helped make him so popular with fans, and why he believes today’s young drivers should embrace being more open and entertaining. Kenny also reflects on some of the biggest moments of his career, including finishing runner-up to Dale Earnhardt Sr. in his final NASCAR victory, and what he’s learned from a lifetime in racing.
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0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Kenny Wallace Joins The Show!
2:16 - Racing Local Dirt Tracks
6:34 - Staying Relevant
11:30 - Coming From A Racing Family
19:30 - Dale Earnhardt Sr.’s Power
22:21 - Sponsorship Back In The Day
23:28 - Pushing Earnhardt To Win At Talladega
37:09 - First Car Story
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Delorean DMC-12
"That race car really keeps me going. DeLorean Hearts Senior was too strong for a NASCAR. Welcom..."
Car
American Motors Corporation (Amc) Pacer
"...go, my brother, Rusty, he's still his friend Dick Pacer, who's Rusty's business partner."
Car
Buick Grand National
"Bush race. Grand National, yeah. So here I am in Dale Earnhardt's number ei..."
- Intro
- Kenny Wallace Joins The Show!
- Racing Local Dirt Tracks
- Staying Relevant
- Coming From A Racing Family
- Dale Earnhardt Sr.’s Power
- Sponsorship Back In The Day
- Pushing Earnhardt To Win At Talladega
- First Car Story
Select text to request an explanation
They miss Kevin Harvick jumping across the hood of that car,
getting ready to beat Greg Biffle's s***.
When I wasn't running good, it was like,
all right, how can I stir some of this s*** up?
I'm 62 years old and I'm still the baby.
That race car really keeps me going.
DeLorean Hearts Senior was too strong for a NASCAR.
Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Art,
presented by NASCAR on Fox.
And today, we have a legend and one of what became
one of my good friends through the years
to be able to talk to and communicate with.
And Kenny Wallace, so thanks for taking the time today.
Kevin, thank you for asking me.
And yes, we have shared a lot in common.
You ran my dirt car one time.
You taught me how to get around
Atlanta Motor Speedway at the end of my career.
Yes, you've been good to me.
Yeah, and I think that, I mean,
so I assume you're still racing the dirt car, correct?
Yeah, yeah.
So what motivates you to keep racing?
I mean, I know that you've raced the dirt car
for a long time, but it seems like you and Strader
have just kept going.
Yeah, that's a really good question.
And sometimes when I'm in the chute at 1130
and we're getting ready to run and they mean,
I think, what am I doing?
I think it's the fear of not having nothing to do.
And sometimes when I'm tired, it's like,
how do I get enough energy to go up to the shop
and unload the car and start the process?
I like the process of racing, you know, it's in sections.
It's like the process of the maintenance of the race car,
the washing, the working on the chassis,
then you get to the racetrack.
And I like the process.
It keeps me busy.
And I truly believe that, you know,
remember when Ray Evernham had the Jeff Gordon,
all the quotes refused to lose.
And my new one is, don't let the old man in.
I can feel myself tightening up if I get lazy.
Yeah.
And I think that race car, well, I don't think,
that race car really keeps me going.
So you're obviously always have been very open,
very opinionated, not scared to say what you say.
And so Keelan and I have been traveling around the countries.
I really had no intention of racing much when I retired.
I'll never race a cup car again.
But, you know, I think that going to these short tracks
with him and having the opportunity to race with him
has opened my eyes to a few things.
And I'm sure that you've probably seen this
too well before I did.
All the hardcore NASCAR race fans
still live around the short tracks.
Yes.
They're all there.
100%.
They are all freaking there.
And I think that the one thing that I hear a lot is,
like when we went to Evergreen,
they took the truck series away from Evergreen
and have never been back to that particular facility.
Now, would it take time?
Why do you think that even if it's the truck series
or the Xfinity series or the Cup series,
why do you think that those fans aren't as engaged
with the top tier of NASCAR racing
as they still love racing?
They still love going to the short track.
When we went to Evergreen and we went to Colorado,
when we went to Michigan,
we went to Owasso Speedway up there.
Why do you think that those fans are not engaged
with the top level of motorsports like they used to be?
On the NASCAR side.
First of all, it is what I call a societal shift.
I see this when I go on the Cal Petty Charity Ride.
The Cal Petty Charity Ride is made up of everybody
that helps give money and raises money
for the Victory Junction Gang Camp.
These are all older people.
And they're like, man, we love Richard Petty.
We love Cal.
We love you, Herman.
Man, we just don't watch them NASCAR races anymore.
Schrader says it right.
He says, well, you sure are missing
some really good races.
They're very competitive.
I know this sounds crazy.
Years ago, my brother, Rusty,
he's still his friend Dick Pacer,
who's Rusty's business partner.
Dick would say, hey, give me a free hat.
It's just that simple.
For some reason, the NASCAR fans feel
like they were done wrong.
Give them a free hat.
Give them something to engage, to love NASCAR.
There are some mistakes,
and NASCAR has admitted it before.
You listened to Steve O'Donnell on some podcast,
and Steve's like, we've done some things wrong.
We're trying to make it right.
Give them a free hat.
And of course, this is cliche when I'm saying,
you don't really give them a free hat.
Maybe.
But they want to feel loved again.
Their heart is broke.
You're gone.
Kevin Harvest doesn't race anymore.
Dillon and Sr. has passed away.
Rusty don't race.
All our heroes in NASCAR are gone.
And we love these racers today,
but they're scared to death.
Yeah.
I love Jeff Gordon.
He's a good friend of ours.
But Jeff is scared to death.
He won't allow, I mean,
all his drivers are not allowed to speak.
And if they do, they're just toting the company line.
Nobody can relate.
You know, they miss you.
They miss Kevin Harvest jumping across the hood of that car
and you getting ready to beat Greg Biffle's ass.
That was showmanship, man.
They miss that.
They can relate to that.
NASCAR is so clean right now
because these young kids have been taught, you know,
and they've been taught.
Don't say nothing wrong.
You'll be fine.
And you know what the crazy part,
you mentioned the showmanship side of it.
I was always thinking about that.
When I wasn't running good,
it was like, all right,
how can I stir some of this shit up
to keep yourself in the headlines,
to keep your sponsors happy?
And I'll never forget who the CEO was
at Anhyzer Bush at the time.
But when we did the deal,
he said, whatever you do,
when you're not running good,
at least be spectacular so we get on TV.
And that was, there was always those moments.
I was always thinking about, all right,
he's being a dick.
So I'm gonna try to just pick at him a little bit
just to see if you could get something stirred up.
Is that how you are too?
Just trying to keep yourself relevant
in times where you weren't running good
or things weren't going right
or you needed to get something across
because I always thought about
keeping yourself relevant.
I still do it, right?
Like you're still trying to go out
and do autograph sessions and be involved in the sport.
And I think it's just because it's ingrained
in my brain that if you let your guard down
and disappear, you're gone
because you see so many of our guys disappear.
And even talking to Jimmy Johnson,
he talked about how I did everything I could do
to not do anything and my brand paid for it.
I always thought about my brand.
Is that, I mean, how you were?
100%.
I'll start like this.
First of all, I was born the way I am.
Like none of it's really...
Got it natural.
I got it natural.
I was born hyperactive.
They put me on Ritland.
I mean, Kevin, there's times I look at myself
in the mirror and I'm like, would you please shut up?
I mean, I exhaust me.
You have your subconscious.
So it is true.
There's two or three of us.
There's the person that knows to straighten up, be right.
Then there's an entertainer.
I mean, we see several backstories
and good documentaries of,
when somebody gets off the stage,
they quiet down.
But I'll never forget Felix Sabatis.
He said to me, never fold your tent.
Never fold your tent.
I mean, they even bluff in card games in poker.
I don't got a good hand, but you got to bluff.
So I'm gonna go with you.
I remember the night at Richmond
that you went at it with Ricky Rudd.
I mean, in my mind, I already remember
Kevin Harvick's pivotal, unbelievable moments.
And I just named them to you going after Biffle,
you going after Rudd.
I remember those.
They were, they were memorable moments.
Now for me, first of all, you're,
you have a God given talent.
You're a great race car driver.
I admire you because you're a good businessman.
You and mother function.
Josh Jones, you guys got it going on.
You're extremely smart.
You're your whole family.
So for me, I got to skin the cat a different way.
I'm a good race car driver.
I'm not a great race car driver.
You've taught me some driving techniques
that I'm very thankful for.
So how could I stay in the game as long as I have?
It was my gift of gab.
I've had the greatest sponsors in the history of NASCAR.
And you know the ones.
I mean, whether it was Square D or AutoZone
or, you know, they go on and on, right?
Jigs, Sonoco.
I mean, I've had some of the greatest sponsors.
And they have said to me before,
you know, we could hire a driver that has won some races,
but he don't sell product.
Yeah.
Let's go to football.
Let's go to your area.
Joe Montana.
Our own people here at Fox, you know,
I worked for Fox for 14 years.
I heard stories that yet we put Montana in the TV booth
and he was horrible.
Yeah.
He's not a TV guy.
Right.
He was a great football player.
Yeah.
So for me to answer your question,
I'm a good race car driver.
I'm not a great one.
How do I stay in this game?
And I learned to sell product to do what I love to do.
Kevin, I love racing.
Yeah.
I once asked my friend, Billy Smith,
I said, Billy, why do I still race?
He looked at me said, you love it.
That's right.
And you know, I think when you have that passion
for what you do, but you also love what you do.
Yeah.
And you know, when you get into that grind
of week after week after week at the highest level,
sometimes it can wipe a little of that out.
And I think for me personally, the last year,
it really reminded me why I love to race.
Yes.
And you know, getting to do all that
for the last time was a reminder.
But the short tracks never once in my life
that I think would remind me why I love to race
more than it does.
I want to say one last thing.
You and I are the same at that.
When I go to these local short tracks,
it reminds me why I wanted to be a NASCAR driver.
Yes.
Because I can interview right now in Kenny Conversation.
I'll have Bobby Pierce.
I'll have Jonathan Davenport, Nick Hoffman.
I mean, I'll have the greatest dirt racers of all time.
And they all want to be NASCAR.
Yeah.
But times have changed.
They don't know how to get the money to go do it.
My timing is right.
I got into NASCAR.
You had pure talent.
But we all get in an NASCAR a different way.
Yeah.
And you know, I think it's the dirt world has changed.
Those guys are making pretty good money now.
Yeah, they really are.
They're doing okay.
So you're Kenny Wallace.
Your brother is Rusty Wallace.
You guys obviously had similar but different paths.
What was the, how did Rusty's dynamic
help what you did on the racetrack
or off the racetrack?
Did it help at all?
Did he ever help you?
Yeah, I mean, I think that the Wallace family dynamic
and just the racing background
it would be interesting for people to know.
Number one, I literally love Rusty and Mike.
I got the best brothers.
They spoil me.
I'm 62 years old and I'm still the baby.
I love it.
So my dad was really good.
My dad was a great race car driver who won 400 races.
No different than a Ralph Earnhardt.
No, Rusty was always good.
He was also a gadget here.
Like if there was anything broke around the house
Rusty would fix it.
Rusty has a God given talent and he really wanted to race.
So I'll never forget Don Perdome where we're at Vegas
and Miller Bruin was a great sponsor of mine.
And I had Red Dog as a sponsor.
Right.
Was that on the truck?
Yeah.
But also on the hood of my Xfinity car, Bush car.
Well, I won three races.
I only got nine Xfinity wins,
but three of them were at Richmond.
And we did tease marketing.
We put the Bulldog, the Red Dog dog.
That's all we put was that dog face
on the hood of the car.
And I won the damn race.
At that time it was called tease marketing.
It's like we're not ready to unveil,
we're not ready to show everybody the beer yet,
but let's tease everybody.
And we got lucky.
I won the race.
So I was heavily involved in Miller Bruin,
their convention, things like that.
So Don Perdome had Larry Dixon,
they had Miller Bruin just like Rusty.
Yeah.
Perdome is a very good friend of mine.
We talk just about once a week right now.
But he helped me in life.
He looked at me and he says,
you know, your brother Rusty's just damn good.
I said, no doubt.
He said, but you're Kenny Wallace.
He saved my life because when I was down on myself
that I wasn't as, I wanted to be Jeff Gordon.
Yeah.
You know, I wanted to be-
Everybody did at that time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And me and Jeff were dear friends
and he even admitted that.
I told him one time, I said, man,
I wish I had your talent.
He goes, you and a million other races.
I wish he had your personality.
You know what?
Honestly, he has said that.
Yeah.
I don't want to get off base here,
but Jeff Gordon and myself,
we were riding in a pickup truck,
driver's introduction at Dover.
No, loud New Hampshire.
And we're waving and we're waving.
I start laughing about something and Jeff Gordon,
I'd cut this bad pinky off to be Jeff Gordon.
He looked at me dead serious.
And if Jeff hears this, he'll know it.
He looked at me after winning three championships.
He looked at me dead serious and he goes,
God, I wish I could laugh like you.
Yeah.
It just hurt my heart.
So with Rusty, Rusty's just damn good.
Yeah.
And I'm Kenny Wallace and I can't change that.
And Don Pradam taught me that.
Rusty has always supported me.
But the one thing that people don't want to see,
Rusty's, and you know this about Rusty,
because you and I have had some serious heart to heart talks.
Rusty has what they call tough love.
Him and Schrader, they were born in the 50s.
They can be prexed to the maximum peak.
And if you're not ready to get your ass chewed out
by Rusty, but I mean, there's times he's put me
in tears, but Rusty calls it tough love.
So Rusty has made me stronger, made me tougher.
And I love him beyond belief.
And I'm not disappointed in myself,
but I've had to look at Rusty before I like Rusty.
You're good.
You got a God-given talent, man, I can't be you.
You know, people like Richard Petty, you know,
he can't believe, you know, Kyle Petty's not as good as him.
It's very hard.
Yeah.
It's very hard to be good.
You know, I've also been given a curse.
My brother is one of the greatest race car drivers
in the history of NASCAR.
Lot of pressure.
But not.
It's the people that remind me of it.
Like I'm proud of Rusty.
I'm like, I love Rusty.
He's, I wouldn't be where I'm at without Rusty.
And I just love Rusty.
It's the fans that go, man, you're not your brother.
And I had the same conversation.
Isn't it crazy the stuff that they'll say?
All the fans are brutal.
You did great, but you didn't do as good as your brother.
Dale Jr. goes through the same thing.
Oh God.
You and I know we have these heart to heart talks
with you at junior.
You know, Dale Jr. has never won a championship,
but he's a great race car driver.
He feels it.
Yeah.
I'm not my diddy.
I'm like, man, you're awesome.
Dale Jr., you're awesome.
But he feels the burn too.
Yeah.
So I answered your question.
Yeah.
I love Rusty.
I don't have the talent he has,
but boys, he, he'd been awesome to me.
Yeah.
And you know, I think in general,
the Wallace family is a racing family.
Oh yeah.
Top to bottom.
Mike's really good.
I'm really good, but we're not great like you.
You're great.
You know, there's us and then there's Kevin Harvick
and there's Jeff Gordon, Rusty Walsh.
But man, we get the race.
I'll get my shots in.
You know, I'll get my shots in.
And I think, you know, I think back to that,
that tough love part when I got thrown out
at Martinsville and in 02 for spinning Koi Gibbs out
and NASCAR had had enough of all the antics
for from the, from the previous year
and the beginning of that year.
First one to call me.
There was two guys that call me.
Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett.
Yeah.
And Rusty was just adamant that how the,
how things worked and how it needed to go
and the politics that went with it.
And those guys, I mean, Rusty and Jim Hunter
and Richard Childress, those guys all,
Dale Jarrett, those are the guys
that kept me from getting kicked out of the,
kicked out of the, out of the group.
Because next thing you know, I was on the NASCAR trips
and going to learn how to play the politics
and going how to learn how the sport worked
and how to sell the sponsorship.
And, you know, Rusty was obviously really good
and tied in with Fred Wagonal
and all the folks from, from action.
But he was always the one to just flat out tell you
when you did something wrong.
Well, NASCAR, NASCAR, number one NASCAR
does need the drivers.
Yeah.
They just don't want you to overrule, overrule them.
They don't want you to embarrass them.
They want you.
They're, I mean, I think they're,
they're nervous about getting a relationship
like they had with the L senior.
Yeah.
And then having your star die
and, and not be involved in a sport anymore
that was dependent upon so much for his opinion
to be able to help them navigate the sport.
Yeah.
I think they went too far.
You know, I think that in the end
there's only going to be so many
Dale Earnhardt seniors, Dale Earnhardt juniors,
Rusty Wallace, Richard Petty,
and the type of drivers
that can help them navigate the sport.
But they tried to make it fair for everybody.
Yeah.
And it's just not fair.
It is not fair.
Not everybody in today's world was Chase Elliott.
You bring up a very good point.
And I've never forgot it.
And this is wild for me to say
and I've never said it before,
but I've always thought it.
Dale Earnhardt senior was too strong for NASCAR.
If Dale Earnhardt senior in his day,
if he ever got on the microphone
and he looked at the grandstands
and he said, okay, I don't want any of you
to show up at the race track next week.
They wouldn't show up.
And that's how powerful he was.
And NASCAR knew that.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember your old boss, Richard Childress.
I caught him arguing with one of the, you know,
NASCAR, he was in Vegas.
I kind of walked by and I was like, whoa,
it's all so long ago that I can now bring it up.
But I remember Richard shooting an NASCAR official,
you know, like hierarchy, you know,
Dale controls this whole damn sport.
And I was like, wow, there it is.
I heard it.
It was true.
And isn't it interesting?
I've always found it odd that Chase Elliott,
who is a wonderful human being,
but so quiet, can be so damn famous.
Yeah.
Isn't it unbelievable that you and Rusty and Earnhardt,
you guys were like WWE, I mean, you guys were wrestlers.
Yeah.
And now these kids like Chase Elliott
don't even gotta say anything.
Yeah.
And it's so difficult.
You know, I look at Dale Jr. and Chase Elliott
as having the same problem, right?
Everything that they do,
the expectation is for them to be like their dad.
Yeah.
And it's really hard to be yourself, right?
Like think about it from all the fans that say,
hey, you know, Rusty did this and why didn't you do that?
I mean, imagine that level of,
like I feel sorry for Dale Jr. sometimes,
just because of the fact that-
I've got a good one for that.
I mean, what in the hell?
How do you go anywhere?
Because of the fact that he is so freaking popular
that you can't actually go somewhere
and have fun all the time.
I've told Dale Jr. this.
I said, I want all your money,
but I don't wanna be you.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I think about that sometimes
and my wife and I'll talk about that sometimes.
Just like, we were just popular enough
to be able to still go places
and be interrupted here and there.
But seeing all the things that they have to go through
from Dale Jr. and Chase Elliott,
they can't go anywhere.
Senior used to have his food brought to him.
When I won my, I ran,
I won at the Bud 300 in Loudon.
It was a big win and Earnhardt was proud of me.
He said, come on up here.
So I went up there and I'm inside is,
you know, the deer head shop.
And he just-
I got my first gun.
Oh really?
Right there?
Oh yeah.
God, you've had some great rides
and great, great friends you have.
Yeah, it's been,
we've been pretty fortunate to go through
the generation of people that we went through
as drivers and team owners and crew members
and the evolution of the sport.
When you think about when you started
and then you got to those mid 90s
and you got to the early 2000s, what in the hell?
I mean, it was a gimmick at that point
that you couldn't screw up because it was so popular.
You were turning sponsors.
You were hand picking your sponsors.
Square D came to the front door of my house.
Yeah.
You just, you're making my memory.
You're jogging my memory.
Ding dong.
Open the door.
Square D rep.
Hey, we'd like, I mean, just as simple and as crazy as that.
It was just, I got a phrase for it.
It was sex, drugs and rock and roll.
It was like, you wanna sponsor me?
Well, let me think about it.
It was.
It was.
It was crazy.
It was.
I mean, Square D came to my front door
and at that time they were $6 million.
Yeah.
It was like Kenny Wallace got a $6 million sponsorship.
But they loved me.
Getting back to Earnhardt,
he said, come to my deer head shop.
She didn't say deer head shop.
And he put down spaghetti and salad.
And he said, here you go.
He says, and there was more to do,
but tagging on to what you're saying about his popularity.
Can't even go out to eat.
No.
No.
Jesus. It's crazy.
It's crazy.
And, you know, you talk about Earnhardt,
I would say probably one of your most famous moments,
probably if not the most famous race
was pushing Earnhardt to that win at Talladega.
Was that, did it just happen?
I mean, how did all that happen?
Just happen.
What in the hell?
That was the craziest comeback ever.
I will give you,
the great Dick Trickle taught me something.
He said, we take pictures in the mirror.
So when you and I are coming off at turn four,
you take a picture in the mirror.
You don't stare in the mirror,
you know, Dover or somewhere like that.
Now, big track you might.
So you got to go back.
We have to go back because
Dale Earnhardt, in 1984, 1984, I'm a cup crew chief
because I'm a fabricator mechanic first.
Yeah.
Okay, so in 84, I'm not even a race car driver.
Dale Earnhardt senior remembered me.
Then I started running ASA.
I became a race car driver at 22 years old.
Holy crap.
I'm a late bloomer.
I was never a race car driver.
Yeah.
So Earnhardt started coming to the ASA races.
He came to slinger.
He came to-
To race?
Yes.
Okay.
He had an ASA car,
started hitting it off with him.
And we're at St. Paul, Minnesota.
And I mean, I'm like my second year
of ever driving a race car.
He hits me in the ass going in one and I save it.
Well, after the race, he puts his arm around me.
He goes, I like you, Herman.
He said, I hit you in the ass.
And he said, you had two choices, direct or save it.
And you saved it.
I saved it.
So then you start fast forwarding.
And years later, here I come.
I come back south.
Now I came back as a race car driver.
What year?
So November of 88.
Okay.
November of 88.
NASCAR wants to see me run one of their cars
because in 89 we start, Rusty starts
this XFINITY team for me.
So November of 88.
Now we're at the Teledega story now.
November of 88, Earnhardt says, Herman,
I know NASCAR needs to approve you to go to Daytona.
You know this, Kevin, but the people don't.
In my day, you just can't show up at Daytona and race.
Cause you could kill yourself.
Yeah, literally.
They knew me as a crew chief for Joe Rutman,
the Levi Garrett car 1984.
Jake Elder started out as the crew chief.
And like right now you gotta remember,
I'm 62 years old right now.
I mean, I'm old.
So it's sad, but it's true.
Happens.
It happens.
So Earnhardt lets me drive the number eight
GM Goodrin Chevrolet car at Martinsville.
And I run 12th.
That's a Bush race?
Bush race.
Grand National, yeah.
So here I am in Dale Earnhardt's number eight,
GM Goodrin Chevrolet.
They have an oil leak the day before,
before I know it, Rusty and Earnhardt
are in the motor compartment changing this motor.
There's media everywhere.
So Dale Earnhardt Sr. gave me my first break.
Wow.
For a lot of reasons.
He was friends with Rusty.
And him and Rusty are talking.
He's like, man, you know, Rusty's like,
I gotta get Herman approved to go to Daytona.
We're gonna run him for rookie of the year.
Now, remember, I remember that.
Yeah.
Let me drive his car.
And I run 12th, my first race at Martinsville.
So now fast forward years and years.
And I have a bad pit stop at Teledagum.
Jimmy Ellige is mad at the whole team.
Supposed to be in right sides only.
They messed up and Jimmy's cussing them out.
Just come over here and put left sides on.
Let's put four on.
I put it up in first Teledagum.
280, 300 gear, whatever it is.
I look in the mirror and here's Earnhardt behind me.
I keyed the button.
I said, what's Earnhardt doing behind me?
He said, oh, he had a bad pit stop too.
My car was fast.
You know, that's when Andy Petrie,
we had them tall rear springs, a car with sag.
We didn't have any power.
And Andy didn't like hearing that,
but we didn't have power,
but boy, we had that baby low.
And Earnhardt followed me.
Halfway to the front.
And we were slicing and dicing.
And we broke that down right here in this studio.
If you go to YouTube right now,
me and Andy Petrie and maybe Larry McDonald's,
we broke that coming from the back to the front.
So I get picked.
I get picked by Matt Kenseth.
Earnhardt ends up in front of me.
And all of a sudden he was wearing white gloves.
Dale Earnhardt, I'm just committed to him
because it's the right thing for me to do.
And all of a sudden Earnhardt's big Paul comes up
and he's like this.
I'm like, in that millisecond,
I thought he helped me get my career started,
him and Rusty.
All right, here we go.
Well, you couldn't get to the rear bumper.
That's when we had all those gurney flaps.
With the gurney flaps spoiler,
with Andy Petrie's cars had that deal figured out.
So I could get to him.
And buddy, I stayed committed to him.
And there were some pivotal moments there.
We got through the travel and John Andretti just peeled out.
Here we come, then you have,
Dale Jr, he's not,
Dale Jr's went on record.
He said he's not gonna push Mike Skinner to the win
because those were teammates that hated each other.
Right, so Dale Sr. don't like Mike Skinner.
Oh yeah.
We had Skinner sit right here and tell us that.
So you asked the question.
This is all these dynamics.
And now they come to fruition.
It's like Mount Rushmore.
I'm telling you everything it took to get to that moment.
He helped me, I help him.
Dale Jr knows not put Mike Skinner.
We got fast cars.
We're cut, there's 250,000 people in the grandstands
and you know all this.
Oh yeah.
I'm saying this for the people.
Right.
And we're coming through the travel.
And you know, you're turning the wheel too far
because you know, that travel gets shady.
Oh yeah.
It gets very dangerous.
Through that travel, I could hear the fans.
And I'm like, oh, I could hear the fans.
Did you glance up?
I could just hear them.
Yeah.
Over them, over my motor noise.
I'm like this, you know, and I know.
And I'm thinking, how can I pass him?
How can I pass him?
I look in my mirror and I don't recognize that car.
I had one chance.
I'm like, who is that?
And I was getting ready to pull out in that millisecond.
I thought if I pull out, they won't go with me.
And here I'll be the guy that pulled out and finished last.
We come around and I realize it's my own teammate,
Joe Nemechek in a new paint scheme.
I beat myself up to this day,
but Joe probably wouldn't have went with me anyway.
No, that was always the power that three
and that eight and the 88,
everybody knew that they had fast cars
and wanted to be a part of the show, right?
Do you think I should have?
What do you think I should have done?
I think you did the right thing.
I think you had just gone to the back.
I think even if Nemechek goes with you,
I think the rest of them probably stay up
just to fill the hole.
I mean, that's always easy.
It's always easy to look back.
So to end this, first of all, thank you for that.
It does make me feel better.
I've never asked anybody's.
Yeah, I just think that, I mean,
the way that it all worked out was like a fairytale, so.
So to end it all, the race is over.
Daytona and Teladaga, take it out of you mentally.
Yeah, for sure.
So I'm mentally, I'm tired.
Even when I relative said, man, you look so white
in that interview, I said, well, I didn't feel white,
but it is a 500 mile race
and you're juking and jiving the whole damn race.
It takes it out of you.
While I'm being interviewed, all I heard,
they got, that was the highest level NASCAR ever was, right?
Oh yeah, for sure.
We were never bigger.
And they put that microphone in front of Dale Earnhardt
senior's mouth and they said, Dale senior,
how did you win this race?
And he kept saying, Kenny Wallace,
if it weren't for Kenny Wallace,
you would have, we would have never won this race.
And they're like, oh, no serious,
how did you win this race?
He goes, I'm telling you, Kenny Wallace,
Kenny Wallace is the reason we won this race.
Did you get a basket of fruit?
What'd you get?
What'd you get?
So.
What'd he send you?
He was so good to me.
At that time, I'm doing ESPN on Mondays
with John Kernan.
Okay.
ESPN was really good to me at that, at that time.
They'd send a helicopter right here in Concord
and fly me to South Park down where we used to live
because ESPN studios used to be in South Park.
Oh, I didn't know that.
They'd fly a helicopter.
I said, that's too far of a drive.
It was like an hour.
Yeah.
Traffic.
I was like, I ain't doing that on Monday mornings.
So they sent a helicopter every Monday morning.
That's awesome.
So after Earnhardt won, we have,
here I run second and John Kernan and myself
were getting ready.
It was called, I think RPM tonight.
RPM tonight, that's exactly right.
And I knew he was coming
and here we're getting ready to start RPM tonight.
And I look and here he comes.
Here goes Earnhardt.
Here he comes and he goes,
he goes, Herman, what do you want?
Well, but we partied the night after he won and up.
But I looked at Earnhardt and I said,
you don't owe me anything.
And here's the end of the story that you're looking for.
I said, you don't owe me anything.
For me, helping you make over a million dollars.
I said, you let me drive your number eight,
GM Goodwin Chevrolet at Martinsville.
And you made it to where NASCAR said,
oh, Herman can drive.
Let's let's let him race NASCAR.
And Earnhardt looked at me and he goes,
I'm glad you remembered that.
I didn't get anything and I didn't want anything.
That's awesome.
That's the way it should be.
He just let me drive that car in November of 19.
Me, you can look it all up.
It's right there, you know?
But November, was it November of 1988?
I drove Dale, there's pitchers out there.
So in a weird way, I'm like,
We're even.
We're even.
That's just, that's just how our generation
and your generation thought about it, right?
Like you remember those things that happen
and you want to repay them
and you remember them in the moments
to be able to say, all right, he had me, I got you.
And that's the way, that's how we survived, right?
Because somebody would loan you a car.
Somebody would buy you a set of tires
and next thing you know, they need tickets to a race
or they need you to come do an appearance for something.
That's just, that's how it works.
I love talking to you.
If you really want to do it.
I love talking to you
because you trigger something right now.
It is sad to say, but like with my dirt car right now,
I mean, I do everything myself.
Schrader does not like me saying that.
I'm like, Schrader, Rusty taught me,
you got to remind them
because they remember what they want to.
But for me to get people to help me on my dirt car,
I'm talking family members, friends.
They want money.
Me, I'm like, you know, they won't come help me
unless I give them $100 bill a night,
pay for their pit pass.
But in our day, Kevin, can I go to Kern with you?
Absolutely.
That's how it worked.
And they paid for their own way.
I mean, I can't remember.
I mean, you had a line of people
that wanted to go help you,
but it is definitely not that way anymore.
Why are people like that nowadays?
They want to be paid.
I think they want to go because they think it's fun.
They don't go because they love it.
I've always said, and this is sad to say,
and I'd love to hear your,
here I am asking you this question.
You and your son bringing a big crowd,
but I don't think racing in totality
is as big as it used to be.
Is it?
I don't think anything is.
Anything.
Except for the NFL.
Yeah.
They're bigger than they are.
I mean, even when you look at baseball
and whatever sport you want to look at,
aside from the NFL,
I just think that it's different.
There's just a lot to do.
There's a lot of places to go.
There's things to watch.
I think that the world has evolved.
And so it's just, I mean, we sound like our parents.
I like, no, but no.
Not the way it used to be.
But you're smart.
And I've always thought that of you.
You have a lot of weight and I agree with you.
There's different versions of hard.
There's different versions of me.
And I think a lot of the people in the short track area
want to think that it used to be like that
and haven't evolved into what it is today.
I think there are some promoters that are good promoters
and have evolved into what they can make it in today.
So it's an interesting world.
But last question, what was your first car
that you drove on the street?
My brother Rusty's mother-in-law, Noe.
Noe Hall.
We called her Novella.
That was her full name.
Noe had a 1968 green, ugly, but killer body.
That's six.
You're talking about the car, right?
The car.
My first car drove on the street.
Rusty's mother-in-law gave it to me.
Really?
God, I wish I would have kept it
because I had just made it.
I got rid of it because of the color,
but it was a 68 Chevelle.
Good lord.
Yeah, thank you, Noe.
Yeah.
And so you sold it and bought another car
or did you sell it to buy race car parts?
I sold it because I was dumb.
And at that time, as Rusty would say,
that was the thing to do.
And I think I bought a 78 Grand Prix.
It was yellow.
I thought it was a better car.
I bought it from Ronnie King,
quality transmissions, and Ronnie smoked.
And when I bought it, it smelled like smoke.
Took me a year to get the smoke smell out of the inside,
but it was more of a, it was a better car.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for taking the time.
We could do this for three hours.
We'll have to come back
and we'll just pick a section of time.
But I appreciate everything that you do for racing
and you as a person and friend and thank you.
Well, first of all, thank you for asking me.
You and your family mean a lot to me.
And I really appreciate you being nice to me
all these years.
Thank you.
We'll stay young.
Yeah.
Don't let the old man in.
Don't let the old man in.
You too, either.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm in the same boat.
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