Kunes on tariff changes, Clerq on frictionless payments, Lawrence on current state of EVs | Daily Dealer Live

Hey everybody, welcome back to another edition of the Daily Dealer Live!

I'm your host, Sam Dark, and this is the space where Automotive comes together.

Thank you for joining us.

Whether you're a dealer, a vendor, or someone just passionate about where Automotive is headed,

you are in the right place on this Friday, October 24th.

Thanks for joining us.

Let's dive straight into today's news.

First update, General Motors says it's phasing out Apple CarPlay and Android Auto from its vehicles,

electric, and gas powered as part of a broader industry shift toward in-house infotainment

systems. CEO, Mary Barra confirmed the move in an interview with The Verge saying GM will fully

transition its own native software experience by 2028 built around a new centralized computing

platform. That system will include a Google Gemini powered voice assistant and a suite of GM

built apps designed to replace traditional phone projection. An analyst says it's all about control.

Car makers want access to the data that CarPlay and Android Auto currently keep behind Apple and

Google's walls. Meanwhile, brands like Tesla, Rivian, and Polestar already use proprietary

platforms and even legacy players like BMW and Mercedes are limiting how much access Apple gets

to their new systems. Looking ahead, it's unclear whether Automakers are banking on software as

their next revenue engine, even if it's alienating some customers. Here's my take on AutoPlay. I do

not like how it takes over the system. And then I'm not, I have not figured out how when AutoPlay is

up, I can still see the map on my phone. So I'm the guy that still wants full access to my phone,

even in the middle of a driving experience, whether passenger or otherwise. Next up today,

the IRS is giving AutoLenders long awaited guidance on how to handle a new tax deduction

for car loan interest, which was signed into law by President Trump way back in July. The rule

lets buyers deduct up to $10,000 in car loan interest for new vehicles built in the U.S.,

starting with 2025 tax returns. Lenders in turn will need to provide borrowers with a statement

showing the total amount of interest paid. The IRS is offering Lenders some flexibility on how

they do that, whether through online portals, monthly or annual statements, or other methods,

and they say penalties will be eased for those making a good faith effort to comply.

What on earth does that mean? For consumers, claiming the deduction will mean filing a

new Schedule 1A form with next year's tax return. For Lenders, it means more reporting and more

compliance work as they prepare for that 2025 filing season. Bottom line here, if buyers can

write off car loan interest, it could soften monthly payments and boost demand for U.S.

vehicles, possibly, possibly giving dealers a much-needed affordability tailwind.

And finally up today, Lemonade. Yes, Lemonade. It's a tech-based insurance company that covers

homes, cars, and even pets is pitching what it calls a near-zero cost insurance plan for Tesla's

full self-driving vehicles. Making that autonomous technology, they're betting that autonomous

technology will make cars safer, not riskier. Company President Shai Wininger teased the plan

on X, highlighting Lemonade's new direct integration with Tesla vehicles. That setup removes the need

for plug-in telematics hardware, letting tech Tesla owners activate Lemonade's pay-per-mile

insurance right from the car. No extra device, no shipping, and in theory, much lower costs.

For context, Lemonade's biggest auto market is California, where it holds about 30,000 policies.

That's far fewer than the more than quarter million Teslas insured in that state. And across

all markets, Lemonade has just over 84,000 auto customers, meaning Tesla integration could

significantly expand its distribution and its reach. Bottom line here, digital first insurers

like Lemonade are testing what the next era of auto coverage looks like, with real-time data tied

directly to how software and automation work. And that's a wrap on today's industry news for

this Friday, October 24th. Yuli, what's up? Welcome back.

What do you think of Lemonade's near zero, almost no-cost insurance for Tesla? That to me

seems crazy and interesting. Yeah, I think it's super interesting. Yeah, I wonder how it would

play out too, because I mean, are those cars going to be fully autonomous all the time, you know?

Right, right. Yeah, I think I, well, that's a fair point. So maybe it's tracking the miles that it

is truly fully autonomous. And then I know a lot of insurance companies are betting that the OEM is

going to be liable if there's an autonomous error, because they've got the big deep pockets and

potentially could be a little bit of a windfall for any insurance company. But I love how it says

it's almost nothing, right? Well, a lot of things are almost nothing, right? But what on earth does

that mean? Who knows? So, hey, just as a reminder, everybody, we're streaming as we always are across

all CDG social media platforms. We'd love to have you participate and have an interaction with us

on today's show. We've already got several good comments. Polo77 says, we saw what GM was doing

with on-star data. They got slapped on the hand many months ago on that. And Polo77 also says,

any thoughts on bankruptcies in the buy-or-pay-or space seems like a potential start of an industry

shift. It is interesting. We saw Tri-Color and then we just announced another one on Wednesday's

show. Are these canaries in the coal mine that are saying there's trouble in the subprime market?

I've talked to some lenders who say no, but the data seems to tell a different story. So,

what lies ahead? Who knows? But, Yuli, let's dive into our first guest on this Friday. So,

coming up first today, COO of Qnis Auto Group and RV Group. Welcome to the show, Scott Qnis.

Yeah, thanks, guys. Welcome. Well, Scott, you're in my footprint in the Chicago land here.

Well, I think you're in our footprint there. Oh, come on. Come on. How about the great thing

about automotive is we share footprints. So, we make each other better by competing together. And

what's cool about this car dealership guy experience is we get to share things across

automotive that make all of us better. Ultimately, the customer wins, our employees win,

and we each win. So, welcome to the show. All right. We're going to ask you the first

up question we ask everybody. And as part of this, tell us a little bit about yourself,

where you are, what you do. How's biz, Scott? You know, biz, I love this business because,

you know, one week you can look like the sky is falling and then you have a couple of good days

in a row and all of a sudden, hey, we're on track for another record, right? So, it's been,

it was interesting. The beginning of this month was a little bit soft, but we could see

some really good demand and some really good sales progress this past week. And really put

us back on pace. And we're seeing a great growth in our service departments recently here too. So,

I think, you know, as people kind of try to figure out what's happening in the market right now,

with tariffs and everything else going on, they're more apt to fix their cars right now. And so,

we're having some really good success in the fixed absolute operations.

Yeah. What do you make of, you mentioned that, and I've heard that from many people,

kind of a slow start to the month of October, but picking up latter half,

what do you make of that? Like, do you have any opinion on what's causing it?

Yeah, I've been trying to kind of put my finger on it exactly. You know, September wasn't a banner

month by any means and our office was not a banner month either, but they were pretty average and

pretty decent. You know, we saw, you know, a lot of increase in demand in March and April,

which I think the whole industry saw, and then a little bit of pullback in May and June, and then

just kind of average. So, I think October, you know, we're just kind of seeing a return to

normalcy. I think people have gotten a little bit sick of the tariff talk. And it was interesting,

it was just in a business summit yesterday, very large business summit, not dealership-centric,

kind of Wisconsin-based and national-based, a lot of manufacturing. And one thing that they talked

about is the tariffs, you know, that's the big news out there, but there really isn't any clarity

to it. I think we're on our 30 second change to the tariff bill. So, they don't know how they're

going to implement it. They don't know how they're going to enforce it. So, I think, you know, there's

still a lot of confusion about what's going on out there, not a lot of clarity. And I think consumers

are picking up on that. Yeah, you know, I've talked a couple times on this show. I was at F1 last

weekend, and there was the CFO for a large English OEM that's making its way into the U.S. Ineos,

and he was talking about tariffs and what a challenge it is to like figure out supply chain

and shipping and all that stuff. And Scott, my question was, is where does this money go? I'm

like, do you actually cut a check to the U.S. Treasury for those tariffs? And he says, absolutely.

He said, the moment we transfer ownership from us to the U.S. retailer that's going to sell those,

we cut a large check to the U.S. Treasury, and there's money sitting there in an account somewhere.

I'd love to hear that at some point, like how that works, because I agree with you, Scott. Like,

I think the uncertainty around that, people are tired of it, and it makes it tough for people

to plan for a long term. So, in that summit you were in, was there a long-term takeaway of, hey,

this is the ask of business as it relates to tariffs on how to create a strong business

future the next six months, 12 months? Well, it's really interesting because, yeah,

they did kind of point to it. I think what President Trump has been trying to do with

tariffs is spur the United States manufacturing industry. And actually, here in the state of

Wisconsin, we're kind of a forefront in terms of manufacturing in American industry. So,

that was a big point there. But what's interesting is you talk about an automobile

coming in and facing a larger tariff. But what we're also finding is that companies,

even on an automobile built here, is facing tariffs from all over the place, every single

different supplier that's importing something. So, they're talking about how do you, is it better to

actually offshore a lot of that final production because then you're only paying the tariff once,

right? And try to pull a lot of that lower capacity onshore. So, it's interesting. I think

they're all trying to work it out right now. Like I said, there's been a lot of changes and a lot

of confusion about exactly how it's happening. There is money there and what that's going to

go to that seems to constantly change. And the other interesting thing, what we're also feeling

kind of the repercussions of is, Trump kind of talked about draining the swamp in his first term,

didn't quite happen. In the second term, we don't really happen. So, a lot of those people that

may have been long-term government employees and maybe they should have gone or should have

saved, that's your own political opinion. But what's happening now is there's not a lot of people

that know exactly how this is all supposed to work, right? Because a lot of those people were let go

or Doge made those cuts. There's a lot of confusion about exactly how this is supposed to work and

a lot of new people in here. And remember, this is still only the first year of his term. So,

we're not even through that yet. So, there's a lot of things that are happening there on a lot of

confusion. So, I'd love to go into the fixed ops because you talk about that's a big area where

you're seeing an increase. But I want to go back to our news item quickly. So, GM's killing Apple

Plays. Is this a big deal? Not a big deal? Who cares? What's your take on it? You have multiple

GM stores, multiple GM points in our shared geography. Is this a big deal?

Yeah, it's a huge deal. And so, it'll remain to be seen what that looks like because that is one

of the highest search terms that somebody is purchasing and looking for a vehicle is car

play. They want to know if it has car play. And that's one of our, you know, something doesn't

have car play. It's a problem. It's a problem. Order those, you know, or Android play or whatever

you want to say. And especially for iPhone users like myself, car play, and I live off of car play.

So, personally, I'm looking at this going, oh my gosh, I haven't had enough time to really digest

the news and see, you know, it always depends on what they shift to, right? Is it going to work?

All right. So, you're seeing a lift in your fixed ops in your service departments, which is great.

A lot of groups are focusing on fixed ops to increase their UIO units and operation to

kind of lean into increases to make sure that they get the customer back, they get good use

trade ins. What's one or two things you're doing in service today in October of 2025 that is yielding

results and helping you see the increase you've got? Well, I think we've had a renewed focus on

training and customer service. In reality, that's, you know, that's what it comes down to for a long

time there, especially, you know, during COVID and during the supply chain crisis,

we were able to kind of get away from that, right? We were, business was pretty easy,

you know, even in the fixed ops departments, you know, people couldn't get their vehicles,

so they were coming in and fixing them. And there was a part shortage, whatever else. And it was,

you know, things got kind of easy there for the industry. And so, as we start to enter, you know,

a more competitive market, this is one of the most competitive industries out there, right? And we

all, you know, we're all trying to work together to push it forward, but we're all still competing

too, right? And we're competing for that customer. And so, it really comes down to really, I always

tell people you can't hold somebody accountable to a standard you haven't set, right? So, as we

start to relook at our training programs, relook at our processes, make sure we're using the newest

and best technology we can to enhance the customer experience, whether that be technician videos.

Yeah, so I was going to ask that, Scott, a training of technicians, that's something we've

talked a lot about the past several episodes, dealers treat it different. Who do you, how do

you approach training with techs? Are you bringing somebody in from the outside? Are you doing something

internally? What's your process there? Yeah, so we were able to hire, you know, with having 31 auto

rooftops and 14 RV rooftops, we were able to hire a couple of technician trainers and a couple of

people out of local trade schools. And they go around and they're, you know, working with training,

or working with our technicians training every single day. And they're hitting different stores,

hitting different problem areas, working a lot with everybody from, you know, the loop text up to our

A-text. And then, you know, we did put an emphasis and reworked the way that we look at

training our technicians as well in terms of manufactured technicians and making sure that,

you know, we can get as many up to master certified as possible and trying to, trying to

work on career paths that way. So there's a, there's a bonus to the technicians that are doing that.

And, you know, technicians are one of the hardest areas right now. And I've often kind of

screaming it from the rooftops that this isn't just an automobile industry problem. This is a

national problem. You know, when we talk about, you know, inflation and things like that, well,

sometimes inflation is caused by labor shortages and whatnot. And there's only, you know, a certain

amount of people that are able to do the job. And so, as we look at the cost of vehicle ownership

and the cost of, and affordability to our consumers, this is one of the foremost problems in our

industry right now. Why do you, what do you think most dealers are missing about hiring technicians?

Like, is it the wrong messaging? Is it an assumption that people don't want to work with their hands?

What's the biggest challenge in that space with bringing new technicians into this space,

keeping them and keeping them trained? Yeah, I think, you know, it's been a problem for a lot

of years. And I think we've all looked at it, we've, and I think manufacturers are looking at it,

we're trying to enter our high schools and get, and get people, get younger people interested.

We're trying to find ways to get females interested in, you know, and that's one thing,

you know, I know a lot of dealers, including myself, has sometimes pushed back against the EV

shift, right? But as we look at that, that's kind of a, it opens up a new segment of individuals,

some that are more interested in computer programming software, you know, excuse the misnomer,

but, you know, the kind of getting away from the grease monkey kind of thing,

kind of that technician that's full of oil and whatnot, you know.

Yeah, so it's interesting, I brought this up on the last show. We had some, we had a guest

a while back that said, hey, you know, I'm telling technicians, you know, potential candidates, hey,

if you want to work with your hands, great, come to us. If you want to work with your head,

you should probably go find a different job. Now, that's, I'm exaggerating it just,

but that's not the case anymore, right? With all the electronics and the complex diagrams and

everything else we're looking at, like, you've got to have a great balance of wanting to work

with your hands and your head. And that's not for everyone, right? And sometimes it has to be

trained. Igor Kay says Ford has a shortage of qualified techs, but I'm seeing this problem not

just with Ford, but with many other brands. Ford's now pushing mobile repair service to customers,

customers homes for light repairs. Scott, what are you guys doing on the mobile front at your group?

Yeah, we've, we've really dove into mobile, especially on the Ford side, you know, and

Ford has been the, you know, the manufacturer that has pushed that the most, you know, they're

subsidizing the program and paying dealers to kind of get into the program. We're starting to see GM

enter the program and they've got an interesting program that they're trying to roll out and we

are, we're jumping into it and we're going to see how that works for us. I think it's a little bit

different than the Ford program in terms of what's more of a membership program. And, and, and so

dealers are going to be trying to sign up customers as members, which, you know, is interesting as we

try to sell everything else that we have to our customers. Now we got to sell them a membership

for mobile service, but we'll see how it goes. It could be a good thing and I had the opportunity to

see the Bright Drop van that they've outfitted for that. So I think mobile service is definitely

something, you know, when we talk about, you know, the, the people making inroads into our industry

in terms of the Jiffy Loobs and, and, and Walmart and everybody else, what, what do they offer that

dealers don't and that's convenience, right? Oftentimes they're not cheaper than us. Oftentimes

they're ticket prices. Most of the time. Yeah, most of the time they're not, right? But they offer

convenience. And so that's what we need to, as dealers, we need to adapt that strategy and make

sure we're combatting that so we can keep those units in operation. So you have a lot of OEMs

across all your different locations, plus you're in the RV side. Are there any OEMs that are helping

you more than another in creating that convenient service experience for customers? And by the way,

welcome to FixOps Friday. So we're not, this is not an intended FixOps conversation, but it makes

us happy on Friday when we can talk to FixOps because sometimes in automotive, we leave out

fixed conversations and they're so important. Is there an OEM that stands out as just crushing

it in your mind right now? You know, like I said, Ford is really crushing it on the mobile service

portion of it. A ton of money to support it. A ton of money to support it. It makes it, it makes it,

you know, profitable for the dealer to do it. You know, if a dealer was just going to jump in

without this Ford subsidized program, I think it would be very hard. But as we're seeing on the EV

front, you know, I do think the administration pushed EVs a little bit too hard. It was too much

pressure to get EVs out. It could have been done a little bit more naturally, but there did need

to be some kind of push so that there could be some sort of adoption. Those first, yeah, those

first intenders are going to buy. And after that, we see that lull. And so there needed to be, you

know, to try to push that. I think we're going to see the same thing on mobile service. It's not

something that people are used to. But as they start to do it, we're hearing, you know, really great

reviews. People want to continue to do it and also pick up and drop off, which a lot of dealers

have done. We've done, there's a lot of tools out there to do it better. And Ford is also helping

in that range. And we're starting to see other manufacturers fall asleep. Scott, you're in the

RV business. How'd you get into it? And why RVs? Does it help with car sales? Does it distract from

automotive sales? Is it parallel RVs? Yeah. You know, at first, we thought it was going to be just

kind of like another franchise, right? Actually, we had looked at a building that was an RV

dealership, and we were hoping to start a commercial truck center at that building.

And we kind of realized that RVs could be pretty profitable in another segment of our business.

And then COVID hit, right? And RV sales got through the roof. And we were just happy to be in the

right place at the right time. And we had the infrastructure to be able to do it. Now RV is

really, it's really a kind of standalone business. We've really separated, separated. It's in parallel.

There is some shared services and whatnot. But really, they, you know, it is kind of a different

business. You know, it's a lot less sales. And, but, you know, in longer delivery times and a lot

more nuance to it. And so you kind of need some specialists in there. So we've really kind of

tried to shift it apart. And it's really a division that's standing on its own now.

But we're finding things in RV that have helped us on the auto side as well.

So I'm curious about that. What's one thing from auto that helps you make more money in RV? And

yeah, so one thing from auto to RV is definitely the finance operations, right? A lot of the RV

stores that we were buying were mom and pop, you know, organizations that have been there for a long

time and really didn't put any kind of emphasis on the FNI office and aftermarket products. And so

we were able to bring that into the RV division. And there were some larger competitors that have

done that such as Camping World. And I think one of the things that, you know, because RV is dominated

by a few large competitors like Camping World and General RV, you know, as we started to grow in

the space, we needed to take, we needed to try to, you know, hire people that had worked at those

places. And so they kind of helped us build our corporate structure as well, you know, being able

to see what a large national organization like Camping World does, some of the reporting that

they may have instituted. And just hearing about that and knowing about that and then being able

to take that into our auto organization as we grew, you know, was pretty key because oftentimes

we can get, you know, kind of stuck in our own lanes and blinders on it. So we were able to see

that was excellent. So last question. What keeps you awake at night? Thinking about the next three

months, the next six months, the next 12 months. Here, October 2025, what are you focused on to

help continue your path? What keeps you up at night you're focused on?

You know, we talked about it a little bit before the show and it's always people, right? We're

people driven organization, we're people driven industry, it's always about relationships and

it's always about finding the right people, training them correct way, retaining them.

You know, our biggest thing is, you know, our mission statement is that we build people's lives

and we start with our employees. You know, in this industry, it's often a fallback industry,

right? I don't think a lot of people grew up saying, hey, I want to be a used car salesman,

right? So we're kind of a fallback industry. I've seen every different kind of

career and college degree come into this industry. And what's awesome about our industry is it can

provide somebody a very lucrative career, a way to provide for the families. And oftentimes we

say we make impacts for generations because maybe we took that person that might naturally

and brought them into this organization where they really were able to shine. So

that's what it is. You know, as we grow, I feel like, you know, our people funnel kind of gets

strained, you know, but it's amazing how many times people, our people step up and step up

in the plate and knock it out of the park every single day. And it's really a testament to our

leaders and to our people that they continue to step up with that. So but Scott, Scott Cunis,

COQ auto group and RV group, we appreciate you being on the show. And sometime we need to get

together to be fun to meet up sometime in the show. I should correct that. Like I said, we did,

we did kind of separate that. So we have a CEO of RV and I'm the CEO of auto, but we will. Okay.

Well, yeah. So I think that got out there from my last biography. So I apologize for that. And I

don't want to, I don't want to send everybody, you know, but you don't want to, you don't want the

RV CEO job back, huh? You want to stay? No, like I said, it's a very different business. And we have

a, we have an excellent gentleman running that division right now. He's made some awesome changes

and he's just an awesome guy. And so I don't want to take anything away from him.

Scott, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, Scott.

That's fun. And it truly is shared, shared geography and all it is fun how in automotive we,

we work together, we share, and then we compete together. You know, we end up Q-ness auto group,

our auto group, there's shared employees back and forth. Good culture. So let's talk automotive

maps. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's talk automotive mastermind. So top performing dealerships use

mastermind to drive loyalty, efficiency and results because they don't just automate,

they activate, learn more and take their sales efficiency assessments at drive.automastermind.com

forward slash cdg. And as always, you can click the QR code here to get more information if you're

watching the live show or a video rerun of today's show. If you're in the podcast library on Spotify,

Apple everywhere, let's go to the notes and you can click on the link and huge props to automotive

mastermind for supporting today's content, including that cool interview with Scott Q-ness.

Well, let's keep going. We actually have a first time on the daily deal alive. We're going to have

not just one, but we'll have two guests for our next segment. So welcome to the show, Ben Markowitz

and Truett Dwyer, both co-founder and co-CEO of clerk. Hey guys, how's it going guys?

Yeah. Thanks for having us. We really appreciate it. So there was no rock, paper, scissors about

who is going to show up. Your co-founders, your co-CEOs, we're both diving into this thing, right?

Yeah. We're two peas in a pop. We go together on everything. So I love it. I love it. Well,

I'm going to have, I'm going to, I'm going to separate you out just for the first couple of

questions. So Ben, let's start with you. Tell us how's biz and as part of that, just tell us what

is your biz and then what do you both do in the world? Absolutely. So I'll start with what we are,

because not everyone knows clerk. Although more dealers know clerk now than they did a year ago,

that's pretty much. But we're basically with the Venmo or Zell for dealers. So we make it really

fast and easy for dealers that accept the payment directly from the customer's bank account at low

cost and with no risk. So, you know, we are helping cut card fees. We're helping close sales faster

and overall just make a better customer experience for customers coming into the store.

Now, in terms of, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say to answer

your question. How's business? So, you know, your last guess was saying October's kind of

been, you know, an average ish beginning of the month started off slow, average ish type of month.

But overall, we're growing just incredibly quickly through onboarding new stores. So we do see a

little bit of that volatility through the month. But, you know, in general, we're trying to grow

very quickly. And that's really coming just from onboarding new dealers.

So, so what did you both see in happening in dealership payments that made you think, hey,

we can fix this? What was the problem that you saw we can do better than currently exists?

Absolutely. So Trude and I actually come from a payments background. We've been in and around

fintech and payments our entire careers. And what we saw is the last decade or so, there's been a

wave of digitization and verticalization of card processing, right? And that's worked well for a

lot of folks. But you see dealers, right? A majority of their volume is still coming in checks and

wires, cashiers, checks, cash, right? And that it creates overhead for the dealers. And it creates

a bad customer experience relative to, you know, using Apple pay by the copy. So we thought we

can go ahead and fix that being being the payments that we are, and they get a really fast easy

checkout for dealers. And that that's really what got us the start part. And that's what we're doing

now. So you convinced somebody you could do it because you just raised $21 million in funding

Truett, maybe talk a little bit about that. What led to that? And how did you, where'd you get this

funding from? Yeah, so we announced our Series A funding round yesterday, which was led by 645

Ventures, which is a top fund here in New York. And in total, as you've mentioned today, we've

raised $21 million from 645, first mark of Shopify fame, FICA Ventures and other leading funds.

And in this round, we actually also brought in some strategic partners like Freedkin, who you

guys probably know, Gulf States Toyota. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But they also, they have some

excellent dealerships around the country. And as a customer, they really got to see Clark in action,

which I guess is the best kind of diligence you can do. So we are really happy to get their

stamp of approval and have them join in on the round. I'm super curious. You saw the need,

you created a tool, and you went to market. Like, do you start calling these venture capital

companies and say, Hey, we need funding. And then what are you going to do with the $21 million

bucks to scale up operations? True it. Yeah. So I'd say, you know, when we started, it was

going out to market. And you know how it works in dealership land, you need to sign up the first

small independent dealership, get them on board, prove out traction. And then that opens the door

to the next call it franchise store, which leads to your first dealership group, right? And you

kind of work your way up through, because dealers are there, there are space where social proof is

paramount. You need to you need to go out, you need to meet the dealers where they are, they

don't want to be, you know, hit up on LinkedIn or cold called or cold emailed. So it was really

about going out and step by step, building that social proof, building that traction. And I think

the product was resonating really loudly with the dealers that were using it. And thankfully,

they were able to recommend it to others. And we just kind of had this ground swell,

which build up over time and led to all the traction that we've had and the success and the

growth that we've had. So why not grow on, and I'm just curious about this, you've obviously,

you've struck a nerve, or you've, you've, you've tapped into something that is a need in automotive.

What are you, what are you able to do with the $20 million to scale? Is it scaling faster so you

are raising that? And then what do you do with that to help get your product out there better?

Yeah, it's a great question. So it is not an easy product to build. So we're basically building

payment infrastructure from the ground up and managing risk in a way that others haven't done

before. So there's no clear roadmap. It's, it's, you know, you can put a product out there, but is

that the best product that you can have in the marketplace? So we are hiring heavily on the

engineering side, heavy on the machine learning side, so we can approve as many transactions as

possible and get people through and make the customer experience as good as possible. So a

tremendous amount on the engineering and product side. And then of course on the good market side,

we've been pretty quiet and haven't really spent a lot on marketing and field sales today, but we

are, we are putting together a field sales organization. We're going to have boots on the

ground. So, you know, all the major markets, we can be there, we can be in your store.

So Truett, I walk through the door of a car dealership and I encounter your product.

As a customer, what does my experience look like with your product in the dealership?

Great question. So I always like to give a representative example. So let's say it's a

Saturday, you're at a dealership, you're trying to put $10,000 down as a down payment.

Most dealers today will have a card maximum because card fees are expensive. They cost a

dealership 1, 2, 3 percent plus. So the dealer doesn't want to be spending hundreds of dollars

to take your card. So what they'll do today is they'll manually orchestrate. So the FNI manager

will say, you know, it's a busy Saturday. I'm going to go to my GM and get an exception.

The problem there is a lot of times customers run into a daily spending limit with their card.

So it gets declined. They're on the phone for 30 minutes trying to get that transaction through.

It's a reward thing, right? So the FNI manager will typically say, okay, you know, we're not

going to do card. We're going to push you to something like cash check cashier check. Those are

obviously outdated manual clunky payment methods that introduce a lot of friction into the process.

So there's something like a check. A lot of consumers in 2025 aren't walking around with

their checkbook. They might not even have checks anymore. You open yourself up to

the risk of a bounce check as a dealer. So the dealer may say to you, okay, I'm actually going

to send you out to get a cashier's check, which is probably one of the worst things you could do

because then you're sending them. They're gone. They're going to leave in the bank and be back bus

never comes back. Exactly. They drive past another Toyota dealer. They say, oh, let me see what the

price on a RAV4 is there. They call their wife. Their wife's like, why aren't you home yet? You've

been out for three hours. Come on. Let's do this later. Right? So we give the dealer a way to say,

keep your butt in the seat. I'm going to shoot you a link. You click it. You log into your bank with

your preexisting username passwords. So you're not signing up for anything. You're not downloading

anything. You're not applying for anything. You're simply connecting your checking account

and clicking pay. And then what we do for the dealer is we give them that instant authorization

and that instant guarantee so they can get that customer through that process in 30 to 60 seconds,

provide that instant guarantee and let them drive off with their car that day.

Is the portal white labeled? Is it branded dealership or is it just the cleric name on it?

What does it look like? Great question. So we set up a portal for each dealership that comes on

and it will be white labeled so the customer is getting that text link from that dealership,

which helps them with a sense of safety security as they're going through that process.

They're getting it branded with the dealership's colors, the dealership's logos,

and they're sitting there with FNI manager who says, hey, look, we're not going to send you

to get a cashier's check. We can just pull that money right through our bank account and I'll

shoot you a link to do that. So does it create any complexity where you're involved in that

transaction? If the customer gets fires remorse or something like that later on says, hey,

never mind. I want to cancel this 24 hours later. Is it already done or how does that work in your

world? Yeah, so we are providing that full instant guarantee to the dealership. So we're giving them

that instant authorization that the transaction is there and the funds are good and we'll transfer

that money out to them. And then in your model, is there a fee to the dealership for the service?

Does the customer end up getting charged? Like where does the revenue generation for you end up

coming from? Great question. So we like to say that we're 50 to 75% plus cheaper than cards

and we only ever charge a dealer when they successfully process a transaction through

clerk. So they're not charged for sending out a link. They're not charged for adding a user to

the dashboard. We really only charge them when they successfully process a payment through us,

which from their perspective is it's always a net positive ROI because they're only using it when

it's a positive return for them. And then it's a fee of a fraction of a percent or something like

that on the total spend or is it a flat type charge? It's a percentage fee exactly. Yeah,

that makes sense. We're seeing a ton of fraud in payment processing and a ton of fraud in the

payment space. Does a tool like this have systems and processes that help prevent that? What do you

see in there? Yeah, that's what the capital goes to, right? That's why we did the round. It is a

core function of what we do is filtering out that fraud, making sure the person who you think is

buying the car is the one who's actually buying it and their bank account reflects that, right?

They're not using someone else's bank account. So we do that in real time and that's what we're

investing in, right? Making sure that we can approve as many good transactions while filtering

out those frauds. In fact, it seems like, you know, Truett, I'm sitting here with a cashier's check

and I'm wanting to like validate and confirm that these funds are good. Your login and payment

confirmation is better than that paper cashier's check where I call the bank and say, hey, this is

a good check, right? So this really is a little bit of a fraud prevention play. Yeah, a lot of the

times I know we described it up front as Venmo or Zell for car dealerships, but a lot of the times

we'll tell people, think of it kind of like a digital cashier's check. So you're providing that,

not only net better customer payment experience, but you're also helping with low cost and no risk.

Well, Ben Markowitz, Truett Dwyer, both co-founders and co-CEO's of Clark. I'd love to sit and talk

about how you do co-CEO. That'd be fun. We appreciate you both being on the show, sharing your

perspectives on this new product and your recent fundraise props to you on that. Thanks.

Yeah. How do you both do CEO? I would be fascinated by that, but it is interesting. We do see so much

fraud and theft in the world. Like I love the idea of being able to say, hey, don't bring me that

check. Just log in, transfer the, go through the process and you have some peace of mind. That's

kind of a cool and innovative thing. I wonder why did nobody think of that before? I guess my

question would be also for the consumer. How are they feeling about linking the account? But if

they're familiar with Venmo and Zell and things like that, it's probably comfortable. Every now

and again on Venmo, I'll get an error and it'll say you have to relink your account through,

I think it's Stripe or something like that. And the first several times I got that, I actually

thought it was fraud. Somebody was trying to get into like a scam or something. Yeah. When it comes

to payment processing, I think people are super concerned about putting password username. You're

linking your checking account. I mean, that's scary. But I also think that's why maybe it's

a good play to do that branding. If you put your auto group name on there and then they've got some

sort of fraud prevention, pretty cool. All right. Let's keep it going today. Let's now turn to Alex

Lawrence, CEO and co-founder of EV Auto. Alex, welcome to the show. Hi guys. Good to see you again.

Good to have you back. Number four, I think, right, Sam?

Yes, I think so. Yeah, we're excited to see you at NADA coming up here in just several months.

As always, it's good to catch up with you wherever we can get you. So actually, let's ask that,

A, how's biz and where do you come from right now? I know you've got a new location in Nashville,

but how's biz? Yeah, steady, back to just normal, profitable, steady growth, kind of the

the old days, if you will, the Wild West is over. I'm sure we're going to talk about that. And then

Nashville, we're remodeling a dealership. It'll open in January. We've got a trailer,

but actually we're selling cars, which is really encouraging. Awesome. What's a big learning that

you've taken away opening the Nashville location? You went from your Utah footprint where you knew

business, you understood the environment, you had all your contacts and people you teach

at the university at Weaver State there. What did you learn moving to Nashville and

setting up shop there? Yeah, I mean, we're learning every day. I think we'll learn a lot more when

it's open, but in our current market, we've got a brand and the marketing channels here are different

than they are in Nashville, but the economy, the political environment,

the demographic, all those things we think are pretty similar. And so that's part of the reason

why we chose it. And of course, the strength of the actual physical location is pretty strong.

And so yeah, we're learning a lot for sure. So Alex, we're 24 days into the

money, the government money being gone and many predicted a fall off the cliff moment.

What's the reality been for your business these past 24 days now that the rebates gone?

Yeah, I mean, exactly. I mean, look, I'm wrong plenty of times, but so far it's happened exactly

as I was kind of predicting that it would. So there's two factors. One, there's just a hangover

where you have all these people buy these cars. And so there was this mad rush and I can quantify

that for you if you want. And so I expected the week after that to be very quiet because

everybody that wanted one tried to get one. And that's exactly what happened with that price

point of cars. A lot of people don't realize that there were a heck of a lot of used EVs that were

never a candidate for the credit over $25,000. But since that kind of that first week, which I

and again, zero surprise, you had synthetic demand, you had artificial demand that was created.

And so when that goes away, that's completely normal. The thing that's happened that's

interesting is some of those cars have gone up in value. And some of the cars that were

and some of the cars that were unrelated to the credit have also gone up in value.

And we can talk about, well, I didn't see that coming. And so we can talk about, you know,

why that is, but, you know, I've been in this business for six years in December.

And, you know, it was always just steady profitable growth. And I've never been one that

thought growth was going to be like this. I always thought it would be like that.

And so what happened is it was going like this for years and then it went like this.

And now it's back to steady, strong, normal, everyday business.

So we want to ask you a little bit about some of the headlines from earlier today. But before we

dive into that, let's pull the thread of vehicles escalating in price and why. So what's gone up in

value and what's driving that? Is it just with the rebates being gone now, just that new car is

farther out of reach? Or what does cause those EVs to go up? Yeah, that's right. And, you know,

Tesla, what Tesla does, you know, the legs, the tail legs, the dog or whatever you want to say.

And so they've raised prices on some cars, some of their newer cars. So yeah, the gap got wider

between new and used. And so that's an obvious thing. And, you know, there was an artificial

pull down. There was kind of a death zone of cars that were like 26, 27,000, because it wasn't the

difference to get under 25. So it wasn't like a $2,000 difference. It was a $6,000 difference.

And so you had a lot of people that would say, yeah, I'm going to deal with 30,000 miles on a car

that has a very good battery and history. So those were artificially deflated in value.

There was a huge artificial inflation in value that's on the other side of it. So those cars

went back up to where they were, what they were really worth. And then Tesla, raising prices on

some things, you know, excluding their new standard models, which I think are going to be a flop,

are, you know, just created that much more value. So. So as you're buying vehicles now, you're

directing your team to buy vehicles at your dealerships post rebate,

what are you directing your teams to do? What changes have you made since the rebate went away?

Yeah, I mean, we are definitely trying to stock more under $20,000 cars without a rebate,

because those are always in style, as you guys know, those always demand for those. And so we've

increased our buying there. We're increasing our buying in newer cars because that value is greater,

like we just talked about. And then, you know, the grandest demand is still really steady for

Rivians and Model X's and cars, again, that are kind of that upper price point. They always

take longer to sell, but the margins are better. And so, you know, I think the biggest change for

us is, hey, let's let's get after more under $20,000 cars and hey, let's let's get more newer cars

and be willing to pay more for them than we used to. Are there a couple models where you're seeing

you're finding that opportunity in the sub-20, okay? I mean, look, we've always been a 85% Tesla

inventory. And, you know, part of our brand promise is that you can come and get a lot of choices.

And you can, I mean, we've got five or six other brands, but still the percentage of the majority,

you don't have as many choices in the other brands with us. And so, I mean, that's, I think

that's going to be that way for a long time. Alex, what do you make of this lemonade headline

that we read off talked about today? So lemonade saying basically it's, it's virtually free,

which I love that. That's a great line in car business. What are they doing here? Is it a

marketing play or is it real valuable insurance as an option for your customers? You know,

you guys hit the nail on the head earlier in this show. I think it's only going to be when

full self-driving is turned on. So it's going to be a ratio. It's like, look, it can be virtually

free if you use full self-driving every time you get in the car. And that makes actually perfect

sense to me from an actuarial math point of view, because the data shows that self-driving is safer

than humans. It is. It's safer. I mean, all the hours on the road, all the data that the highway

patrols and everything combine of hours per accident, miles per accident, full self-driving

is safer than humans. So it makes perfect sense logically that it would be less to ensure. Now,

that's a bit hyperbolic in terms of the, but they said it, they said it out loud and I'll tell you

what, music to my ears because the, the, the one of the rubs has been insurance costs historically

for EVs. That is not true anymore. Those costs as they've learned about the safety of those vehicles

has continued to go down, but for a while it was true and it's been hard to get the word out to the

market that that's not really the case anymore. So is the higher cost been the liability about

self-driving or has it been just the fact that replacing an EV is so blasted expensive, like

all the components going into it, the battery, and then you get in an accident and it's going to cost

more and it, the ease of totaling an EV, the bar is much lower to total an EV versus a combustion

engine, Alex. Yeah. And that certainly affects premiums, right? But I think they're getting the

data back saying that's true, but it's offset by the lower number of accidents. And so, you know,

there's a, there's a scale there, right? That obviously there, it's a numbers game. And so

there, it just took time for them to realize that these are safer cars, they get in less accidents,

but it's out offset some by easy to total cost to repair, which costs to repair have gone down as

well cause just like costs of cell phones and TVs and things like that, you know, they can get,

you know, it must it's iPhones, they can get theoretically cheaper. And so, yeah, they're

just starting to do the math and the data is starting to roll in. I think, um,

lemonade, it'll be really interesting to see. Like I said, I think it'll be a ratio based on how much

you use. And now somebody driving version 14, which I would encourage you guys to do. I am addicted

to it. I use every second I get in the car, every car that I get in that doesn't have it feels like

the dumbest car on earth. I mean, it truly is a absolute experience to that, that people need to

try to go, Oh my gosh, this is, this is a really different thing, you know, Alex. So what is the

question? Go ahead. I have a question on longevity and adoption. So we had a gentleman with a German

company a few episodes back that was testing batteries. And I had made the, the claim or

posed the question that our high mileage EV is going to turn into the old, I mean, I'm sure we all

remember the, the 020304 Civic DX is that you could just drive forever, right? So is mileage

going to be less an issue and battery life? And are you seeing that type of consumer entering the

market looking for these higher mileage cars with a great battery, you know, that they can kind of

that these cars are being driven much longer than, than even Tesla predicted. And it's, it was a

surprise because, you know, Tesla has got every reason in the world to overstate the performance

of the battery, right? And so for, for their numbers to come back and go, wow. And so you,

it's true with gas cars. I mean, how has the car been cared for? How has the battery been charged?

You know, how, and those kinds of things. But if those, if that stuff is in check,

these cars can be driven for a very, very long time. And we have a warranty, for example, that we

offer that is unique to our business, that we're able to do some testing on the battery and the

battery history. And if it qualifies, you can buy a warranty for me that is unlimited years and

unlimited miles on the battery. So now it doesn't go with the car. It's just for you. So if you

sell the car, it doesn't continue. But, but the only reason that's available is because the data

says that the percentage of batteries that need to be replaced versus the ones that don't, that we

can offer that. And it's only $2,300. By the way, it's not a $10,000 warranty with the $250

deductible. So I'm not marketing that. I'm just saying the numbers only work because the data says

the batteries are lasting way longer than anyone expected. Who underwrites that, Alex?

I'm not going to say it's a proprietary product. Oh, come on. But a very, very large,

a very, very large insurance company that is very out for a very long time. So there's a

barrier though on these high mileage vehicles, you know, on the, on gas powered, right? Lenders

are lending pennies on the dollar on, on high mileage vehicles. Do you think we're going to see

a shift where there's going to be maybe some EV dedicated lenders that are going to enter the

space more willingly to finance some of these higher mileage, you know, great battery vehicles?

Like when is that component going to catch up to it? It's already happening. Yeah. There's already

EV specific lenders that are very sophisticated, that are loaning on, on six figure mile cars.

Your traditional lenders are doing it. Some, depending on the kinds of things that we can

share with them, you know, we are the beneficiary of having been first sort of largely that,

that we're going to do some beta tests with different insurance companies and finance companies,

because we've got enough data to say, Hey, you should try this with us. And so, but it's already

happening. And that's a really smart insight. It's, it's on its way. Awesome. So it's interesting

this past weekend, I was in Austin, Texas, and Austin was an interesting market because there

are a ton of autonomous vehicles running around. So you have the Waymo, which is Jaguar, I think,

and it's got the big pod sitting on top. But you also had a lot of Teslas driving around with these

towers on the top. And I think that's in prep for their fully autonomous FSD.

It is that right? And how are they testing out? You know, I know last time you were on,

we talked about autonomous Teslas and how there will be a day where an owner of a Tesla can just

put their vehicle in the fleet, and it will generate revenue while you're not utilizing it,

and then it'll come back home. Do you have any insights on how that's progressing?

Yeah, I mean, so in Austin, robotexies without anything on the roof and without anybody in the

car is happening on broad scales. Their footprint has gotten larger and larger and larger. And now

it's happening in California, and they're testing in other markets. So I think you're going to see

rapid expansion of that. I'm a little bit in the minority in that I don't think that's going to

have a huge impact on people putting their cars in the fleet. Because if you look at

rideshare, if it translates to that, they're really busy kind of the same times, Friday nights,

and so I don't think it's like your cars are just going to be getting used by other people all day

long while you're at work. I just don't think that's going to, and I think it's going to take

quite a while. It's going to be like a lot of other trends and innovations. It's going to be

coastal, and it's going to be big cities where people don't own cars as much already, and taxis

are really popular, and rideshare is really popular, and it makes perfect sense to me that

robotexies are going to be highly adopted there, because one, they're more comfortable

theoretically and historically with adoption of new technology, but also if you look at some of

these numbers right now of what robotexie costs versus an Uber, it's shocking the difference.

I can't remember exactly what it is, but it's like a dollar a mile versus 20 cents a mile

or something like that. It's a dramatic difference. So when you've got these early adopters, people

that already like Tesla's and other things, and they can save a bunch of money, I think you're

going to see robotexie go boom all around these big cities. That's interesting. It was odd seeing

all these vehicles driving around with no driver in it. I bet. I bet. My son, who's a senior in

high school, we were watching this. We actually tried to hail one, but you have to do it in the

app. Taxi. Taxi. You can't request it. You can't request it. It just is kind of luck of the draw,

and we were never lucky enough to actually get one. It'll probably stop if you step in front of it.

But, well, we had this debate. Nate and I had this debate. We're like, will people prefer to drive,

or will they prefer to just be driven around? And I kind of liked the control of driving,

and he said, you're wrong. People are going to prefer to just get in, get to where they're going,

not have to worry about driving, per se, go into your comment about what's... And it brought me

back to a comment, a debate you and I and Yossi had, Alex, where you said there will be a day where

the Tesla will drive itself, or an autonomous vehicle will drive itself into the shop,

pull up to the bay, get the service, then it'll go back home. It'll change the way

fixed operations and traditional dealerships work. Any other thoughts on that? I'm starting

to kind of agree with you that there will be a day where that check-in at the service department

of the dealership will look very different than today. Yeah, I mean, look, nobody likes to sit

and wait for their car to be worked on. No one. And reminds me of Amazon when Bezos has always said,

look, nobody will ever get mad at us delivering faster and cheaper. That will always be our

North Star. Nobody, it will never be fast enough. It'll never be cheap enough. And I think of the

same thing with service. Nobody will ever want to participate in that process if they don't have to.

And so once the cars are safe enough that they can drive themselves without anybody in it,

I don't see any reason why in the universe that you would say, I want to go be a part of that.

It would just... Instead of you driving it and then it's sitting there. It's a free coffee,

it's so good. Yeah, why wouldn't it drive itself and then sit there and then come back to you?

I think a lot of people would pay a premium even for that. It's like, yeah, it's an extra 20 bucks

and I don't have to take it, take my money. So Alex, thinking about that as a future state,

we're not to that point yet, but it's coming. Can I say one other thing before we go, Sam?

I also think it's really important with your son's comment. I wanted to hit that.

That's a generational viewpoint. It is. And so I think back to when you could buy things online,

my in-laws wouldn't do it. They would not put their card into a website to be used

for fear of cyber tech. So they would ask me to do it because I was totally fine with it.

And so I'd buy things and they'd reimburse me. Now, they do that all the time. And so I think,

you have to... The time horizon has to be pretty long, I think. I don't think it's five years.

I think it's 10, 15 years. But when your son and his friends and others have grown up with that,

I think what he's saying, I don't think it's going to be that dramatic, but I think the number of

people that are willing to do it grows. The servicing is also generational because the only

people I've ever seen that really enjoy bringing their vehicle to a service department are above a

certain age bracket. And they're like, no, it gives me something to do. I want to rub shoulders.

So Alex, you're the undisputed expert EVs selling nothing but used EVs. For our auto dealer clients

that are franchised auto dealers, what do you see as the opportunity in this EV space post-rebates

for profit that dealers could lean into that they could adopt? Is it FNI? Is it service?

Is there a particular area in the business? That'll be our last question up today.

Yeah, look, I recognize my heavy bias, but I really try hard to check it. I think new EV

sales are screwed, man. I think if you're selling new EVs and you don't have incentives and you're

competing with Tesla, I mean, look, there's Ford Lightnings that are doing well. There's Chevy

Bolts that are doing well. The new leaf that's coming out, I think is interesting. So I don't

think it's like everybody's screwed, but there's a lot of cars that are overpriced and under

technology. And when you lay those together without an incentive, I don't see a lot of reasons for

people to buy them unless they're super brand loyal, which works. And so I think it's going to be a

rough road for a lot of new car dealers with EVs that, like I said, are overpriced and under

technology. And so that just is what it is, right? And sorry, do you want to comment on that?

The message makes me smile because your message as an independent EV guy is, hey,

don't even bother competing because you're not going to get anywhere, right, Alex?

I mean, listen, I'd love to be a franchise dealer, but I would take the minimum allocation that I

have to get what I want out of a manufacturer if I've got one of those cars that it's clear

that there was only demand when there was incentive. And a lot of the manufacturers,

as you know, are continuing incentives. I think that's great. I wonder how long

they'll be able to do it when Ford loses $3.1 billion in its EV business in a quarter and Tesla

makes $1.8 billion or whatever it was in a quarter. That's an $8 billion gap or something.

And Ford lightnings are good cars. They're good trucks. I like them. And so there's that. But

with used, I've said this forever and I'll say it again, be all in or be all out, man. I like,

take them on trades and wholesale them and get rid of them and make a few bucks and have some people

that understand how to value them and can at least talk about them or dedicate a couple people to

EV, used EV and trades and charging and have a charging solution for people and commit to that.

On the service side, our service business is booming. I mean, we are full all day, every day.

I wish I had to build a bigger service center. My mobile business in Denver, it's taken me about

six months to figure it out because it's really just getting the word out because the value

proposition is high. We come to you. We offer the same warranty as Tesla. We offer the same

prices Tesla. I've got certified Tesla mobile texts that worked for Tesla, working for me now.

But once we've got the word out now, guess what? Busy booked. Gonna add another truck and trailer,

opening up Orange County soon. And so I think there's a real opportunity there. But I recognize

I've got an advantage. I don't have a gas service center. I don't have to like change or modify

or invest. So I recognize that it's not just as easy as, well, you guys should do EV service.

But I think ignoring it is probably a mistake. Yeah. Well, Alex Lawrence, CEO and co-founder

of EV Auto, we absolutely as always appreciate you coming on the show, even this fourth time.

Thanks for being on the show today and sharing your perspectives about all things EV post the

rebate, which has gone now 24 days. Thanks, Alex. We're staying in business, guys, to get the word

out. So let's go. Thanks for being here. Thanks. That's a fun interview, by the way, because,

you know, he's continuing to win and he's put all his cards on the table in EV. So it's going to

be interesting to follow up with him to see what the normalization of the market looks like in the

coming days, weeks, months and years. Yeah. Speaking of which, to our Daily Deal Alive audience,

thank you for watching Daily Deal Alive, where you break down the biggest moves in the car business

as they happen. Don't forget, we're here live every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So if this is

your world, hit like, hit subscribe, turn on those notifications so you never ever miss a beat.

We've got our use car round table. How do you price? How do you buy? Tech or gut? Coming up

Monday. We'll see you next episode, everybody. Thanks, guys.

Kunes on tariff changes, Clerq on frictionless payments, Lawrence on current state of EVs | Daily Dealer Live

About this episode

General Motors

infotainment

Android Auto

Apple CarPlay

Polestar

Rivian

BMW

Mercedes

Lemonade

full self-driving

pay-per-mile insurance

Ford

GM

mobile service

Bright Drop

Jiffy Lube

OEMs

EVs

Toyota RAV4

new car incentives

rebate

Tesla Model Xs

Model X

EV

combustion engine

Honda Civic

warranty

deductible

autonomous vehicles

Waymo

fully autonomous FSD

Nissan Leaf

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