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He's back! Actually, he never left.
Last week, we talked to Jerry Matty-Lavallat all about the impending Olympus rally outing
in a factory Toyota GR Corolla Rally RC2.
Go back and listen, it's a fascinating insight into what's to come in Washington next week,
but this week, Jerry Matty, we're all about Croatia.
You know, I was going to say, what a start to the year it's been for your team.
Win, win, win, podium lockout, podium lockout, all of that.
And you think, well, how long has it been since, oh, last year.
You did it last year as well. Do you get used to all of this success, Jerry Matty?
I think, let's say, you don't necessarily, 100%, I mean, you don't get used to it,
but the expectations are growing.
And your expectations are that you should be able to fight always for the win.
And that's always the case that when you go to the event and when you win,
there is a risk sometimes that you think that the winning is getting normal,
but it never should get absolutely normal because it's always something special when you win.
Because meaning that when you win, you have to work for it, you have to do things right.
It's not that it's an element which comes to you on the straight table.
So that's always something you have to remind back in your head that the day when you start to get it too comfortable,
then the others will pass by you quite quickly.
So that is a challenge in part which you have to add used in your head.
Yeah, there is no place for complacency.
And last year, we saw an incredible start to the year.
I think seven wins on the bounce and then we got to Estonia and everybody expected an absolute whitewash in Estonia.
And you talk to Tom, Fowler and other people around the team and they say,
look, if it wasn't for Oliver Solberg in Estonia, we would have lost.
There was Tanak there strong in the Hyundai.
Every now and then you need these events, don't you?
And then obviously Acropolis came soon after that and it just wakes you up a little bit again.
Doesn't it? It hurts more maybe when you were used to winning.
Yes, that's a good way to say it because it wakes you up.
Because then when you get a little bit comfortable with these winnings,
then comes a moment that you realize that, OK, wow, the others have been working hard
and they found out something more than the others.
So like Oliver Solberg, when he came to Estonia, he was out from the box
when he was doing the testing, finding a little bit different setup than our top drivers.
And then the setup was working and he basically was very comfortable with the car
and he won the event.
Then we did the correction with the other guys for the Finland.
But that's sometimes like when you are too much in your own circle,
these moments comes up that somebody goes a little bit out from the box
and finds something else or does things a little bit differently.
But you need also these moments because that keeps you more in the game.
Because if you don't get them, then it can start to go step by step downhill
if you are comfortable with the winning all the time.
Yes, absolutely.
And you referenced there that Oliver Solberg obviously looked for something different
from the GR Yaris rally one and he found that he took the car in terms of a setup
in quite a different direction in the softness of the car
and not necessarily talking suspension, talking about the transmission
and the way that the diffs are locking.
It's quite different the way he drives the car.
And for sure, we know that Elvin and the other drivers have tried
and still struggle to get that same feeling that he does.
Going into Croatia, how different will Oliver's setup be for Tarmac
than it would be for Gravel?
Oliver's driving style is when you look at the way he has been driving
for instance in Monte.
He has a very, very good confidence for the front of the car with the turning
and the way he is turning, it's just making it very easy turning
and he trusts the front a lot.
So yeah, on Gravel he is different, but on Tarmac it's not so big difference
with the car, especially when you go like a normal Tarmac event.
Monte is different because especially this year with the conditions
so the car had to be quite different than a normal Tarmac event.
But now the Croatia is in Tarmac event and generally speaking
the cars will be quite similar.
Yes, and obviously Croatia, it is four starts in the WRC on the calendar,
four wins for Toyota.
How confident are you of continuing that run into five?
Now the location is in a different place.
I think there's only three stages which are similar than done in the past
so there's a lot of new stages.
So then it also makes the question that who can make good base notes
on the new roads, who is riding the confidence.
So it's not necessarily all about how is the setup of the car
but now it's also the matter of the new stages
who can find the good feeling with those stages.
So I expect now also that the Hyundai will be closer.
They've been a bit behind, I must say.
They haven't been on the level I expected them to be
but now in Croatia I think there is a chance that they will be
jealous of us a lot more.
And of course we hope to see also sports forwards
that they would be also joining for the fights.
But like I said, I think overall this event is more,
now will be more focused with the notes
and with who can get comfortable with the new roads.
Yes, absolutely. You talked a little bit about it there.
We obviously look forward to the challenge from M Sport Ford.
The guy who comes into Croatia on the back of a win is of course John Armstrong,
one at European Championship level in the Fiesta last year.
John is demonstrating quite a lot of confidence,
early doors in the season.
He's a little bit older.
Jari Mati, have you been surprised at what you've seen from John?
Yeah, for me he has done some really, really good stage times.
Like Monti was running very well.
Unfortunately he just had to retire on the final day.
But overall he's been very positive to see his performance
and I think it's good for the championship,
good for the Ford M Sport team of course.
And hopefully he could even fight for the podium in the future events.
Yeah, absolutely. You know that team very well.
You know what a result like that would mean to them.
But it is a very difficult rally Croatia
and one of the aspects that Alvin talked a lot about after his test
is there's an element of guesswork here
because you are setting the differentials, the ramp angles,
what you want from the car.
You're setting that for Croatia.
That is then paired of course with Canaries.
How difficult a job is that?
Because you know we saw snow on the test last week for Taka.
We could have snow next week but then we could get to Croatia
and it could be 22, 23 degrees and bone dry.
It's a compromise isn't it?
It is a compromise because in Canaries the roads are very different compared to Croatia.
In Canaries you don't cut at all.
You know to clean very, very clean like a racing circuit style of Tarmac event.
When in Croatia you know it's still dirty and cuts and Tarmac is changing a lot.
So yeah, for sure it is not an ideal situation
which you have to do the compromise with the differential setups.
So yeah, you have to be a bit cautious always what you choose.
What you feel like on the test road if this feels extremely good
but you have to remember that you can't build it for that road
and for that rally that it needs to also work.
So you might need to think about it a little bit rethink
and maybe take the option which you feel good.
You know there would have been better option
but overall you have to think about the package of two events.
Yeah, for a driver that's really frustrating isn't it?
There's no doubt about that.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, no it is.
We spoke about Taka very briefly there, some snow on his test
but who cares about snow when you've just won Safari.
That was a big win for him.
Yes, it was a huge win.
It's something which he has been looking forward to for a long time
and it meant a lot to him.
It's been close and I told him on rally speed
and I said Elvin was very strong over there
and I said when you get those podiums
and the podiums is making your self confidence stronger
the wind will follow you
but it's very difficult to come with the situation
when you don't have a good result underneath
and then you try to win the next event.
It's always a big challenge
because if your self confidence is not in the right level
or the high level let's say, it's more difficult
and the situation that he comes in the difficult positions
and tries to win the event
and he has done a great job in Japan and in Kenya
and in Sweden earlier
but not being able to really get that victory
and now he came
so I think it will boost overall his self confidence
but also gives to Newspark for the future
because he has achieved one step on his carry.
Absolutely.
Just take us back briefly
just a few years to Sweden 08
when you won your first ever WRC round
what does it do to you?
Do you sleep easier at night?
It must lift some of that burden off your shoulders.
It definitely does.
I came with the bad event, Pat Monte Carlo
when I came to the first event to win it
and I remember how easy it was afterwards to go to Mexico
you know the energy level that you had
and the feeling that you had to go to the next event
it was so much easier than earlier
I mean it's just you could feel and breathe easier after that victory.
Yes, although breathing in Mexico is always quite difficult
because of the altitude.
But yeah, Taka, championship challenger this year?
Let's say that I think this year
Taka will do good results
I'm not sure if this is the year to really just challenge the championship
I think next year is the stronger year for Taka
really to be a championship challenger
Who's here?
There is still some difficult events
I think where Taka is
where we just need to get with him
a little bit more experience
and let's say improve the performance
we know that the areas with Taka
he's good in Sweden, he's good in
and normally Kenya, Portugal, Japan, Finland, Estonia
but there are some events where also we need to improve
the performance level
which he hasn't felt necessarily so comfortable
because overall in the championship
if you want to be world champion
basically in even in the bad days
you need to be in top four
when it's not going well
you need to be still top four
to score the points for the championship
Yes, that's very true
What are we...
Elvin Evans is looking stronger than ever this year
Last year we would have said the same
and then up on his blind side came a Frenchman
who'd won it already eight times
and beat him to the line for a ninth championship
What do you do if you're Elvin Evans this year
that you are in the box seat
you're looking strong
all of the ducks look like they're lining up beautifully
for a championship
how do you just stay focused and just do your job?
Elvin has been so close so many times
and then earlier when it was the moment
when we thought that it's his year
then Kallero Van Bera came and won the title
so of course that was a bit devastating for Elvin
and I think the important part is now
that the experience taken from the past
is that concentrate on his own job
his performance level is there to win the title
he has, he's strong in every event
he's the most consistent driver of the championship
Last year maybe one win more could help him
to be a champion
so maybe those just a couple of more wins
is needed for the year
but the biggest thing is for me
is that he doesn't take the pressure from Oliver Schulberg
it's the reminder that not to take the pressure
like what happened with Kalle
that is something that he needs to just focus his own performance
and then he has everything to
all the tools are there to win the title
yeah absolutely but I mean it has been a pretty astonishing start
hasn't it for Oliver to come in to win Monte
to show the pace that he's shown in Safari and Sweden
it's almost impossible not to see him as a championship challenger this year
yeah I think he's a challenger really
you can see that he's grown up
he's very mature the way he has been driving of course winning Monte
but even in Sweden when he had some moments
he realised that he has to back off a bit
and take the points for the championship
so he also understood that side
and I think that is making him stronger now
and really be a championship challenger this year
yeah absolutely that's this year done
we are now looking forward to 2027
what are your thoughts
obviously there's a lot of chatter right now about 27
the new cars coming in constructors
all of that side of things
what are your thoughts looking forward to 27
well at the moment if I look for instance
the start list for the Croatia
and I can see that there is more than 30 rally 2 starting
and the earlier years of let's say the early 2000s
we had more than 30 close to 40 world rally cars
starting the WSE events
so this is what I hope to see next year
is that in the main category we have this big number of the cars
where there's a lot of privateers, where there are manufacturers
but yeah the main class we have a big number of the cars
and I think that's now the right actual way we are going
and I hope will happen next year
I think for the championship that would be very good
yeah if you were a privateer how excited would you be
at the prospect you know Jari Mati-Lavoli
you could restart your career you can go out
and I'm sure you'll get a discount on a GR Yaris rally 2
you could win Monte Carlo
yeah if I think about back you know the day when Nitro for instance
you know we when we came to the world championship
there was some events we run the old WSE Corolla
and the thing is that when you tried to
you knew that with an old car but you know in private hands
that if you could show some you know strong states times
and that could maybe lead something and now that
that is coming possible
because now it's been difficult with the rally ones
they've been so expensive cars that there are a lot of drivers
and especially younger drivers
they can't afford to rent the rally one
but they know they can afford to drive with the rally 2 car
and they know that now there is easier to show the potential
so which basically is giving me more opportunities
to the young drivers
and then also to be boosting the starting list
if you think about in the past there's been like
for instance in the 90s Italian driver Kunico
he won the San Remo as a private ear
so it has happened before
and even you know Harry Rovanbera with the private WSE Corolla
was basically showing his performance in rally Finland
and with that performance you know he got to deal with the Peugeot
then for the year after
so that is the right action now
and what I like about the new regulations for the next year
Yeah, no absolutely but there is of course
there is another car coming the WRC 27 spec car
we've seen pictures, some footage of Toyota's prototype car
I understand you haven't driven it yet
but how excited, do you think you might get the keys soon
how excited would you be to get behind a wheel of that?
I haven't driven the car
of course it's always excited to test the new cars
at some point you know it would be nice if our technical right
don't follow gives me gives the opportunity at some point to test it
so of course it would be nice to see the car
I mean it's great that we are preparing for the season
and even though we have the new car
still it's very difficult to make big differences
between the current rally 2 cars and the new cars
the regulations is quite strict
so I don't think there's going to be any big differences
but I think the main difference is where you can do the
is probably a bit higher dynamics
where you can make the difference compared to rally 2 cars
Yes, yeah but I remember when you started in your Rollers team principle
it is important to have an understanding of how the car works isn't it
to interact with the drivers to understand what they are talking to the engineers about
Yes, it is absolutely right because
you know sometimes when you follow the discussions with drivers
and we are talking about the setup you know I had to change the differential
because the car was understeering and you know we changed the springs
because the car is not you know with the rear is oversteering too much
and then you know then when you have experience of the driver or the car
like I mentioned at some point that
in the stories when I talk about the GR Corolla and the GR Yaris
the difference is that you know that the nature of the car is
every car has a different nature
and when you know the nature you know what the car needs
and what are the tricks and that is something you want to experiment
that it's easier to communicate with the drivers
Yeah, now one car that has a great nature
is your Celica Turbo 4WD ST185
the car that you won the historic championship with
what can you tell us about your season back in that car
competing with the Celica again this year
how exciting is that story?
Yeah, it's been very nice to start the season in Costa Pará
there were some new cars
the more modern cars because now you can enter in the championship
even the cars up to the year 2000
so there is two different tarmac championships
but some events are you know the same
and it was nice to see these cars you know new cars
Renault Clear Williams sees for instance running up there
Superwind Predsa's and so on
and then to see the level of the Celica where it is compared to the others
so that's nice and also those events
there's always great atmosphere
and I you know really
enjoy the driving the car
it's a great car to drive
even though it's an old car but it doesn't feel that old I have to say
No, I would agree with that having sampled it with you
good with it was an experience
definitely
and Franco Delacorte in a 306 Maxi that really takes us back doesn't it?
Yes, Francois is a very quick driver
and driven that car in the past
so I think there will be some events where we will be meeting each other
so it will be definitely very inspiring
and exciting to see the level of Francois
and on his 306 Kitka compared to me and with the Celica
so looking forward to those competitions where we are
starting against each other
Absolutely, Jari Matty as ever
it's an absolute joy to have you joining us here on Spin the Rally pod
Thank you very much for your time
You're very welcome
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About this episode
Toyota’s WRC momentum is the headline, with Jerry Matty-Lavallat (Jari-Matti Latvala) saying the team’s success never becomes “normal”—winning still requires constant work and the right setup. He points to how shocks like Oliver Solberg’s Estonia win and the subsequent wake-up moments keep everyone sharp. Ahead of Croatia, he expects new challenges from fresh stages and better Hyundai pace, plus M-Sport Ford’s John Armstrong showing strong early speed. They also discuss the compromise of differential/ramp-angle choices across mixed conditions, and look forward to 2027’s rally2-heavy entry lists and the new WRC spec car.
Toyota team principal Jari-Matti Latvala joins David Evans for a pre-Croatia edition of SPIN, The Rally Pod to discuss this week's World Rally Championship round, Toyota's supreme start to the season, how Takamoto Katsuta has reacted to his first win in Kenya and more.