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Toyota, let's go places.
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He's back! Actually, he never left.
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Last week, we talked to Jerry Matty-Lavallat all about the impending Olympus rally outing
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in a factory Toyota GR Corolla Rally RC2.
01:49
Go back and listen, it's a fascinating insight into what's to come in Washington next week,
01:53
but this week, Jerry Matty, we're all about Croatia.
01:58
You know, I was going to say, what a start to the year it's been for your team.
02:04
Win, win, win, podium lockout, podium lockout, all of that.
02:08
And you think, well, how long has it been since, oh, last year.
02:11
You did it last year as well. Do you get used to all of this success, Jerry Matty?
02:18
I think, let's say, you don't necessarily, 100%, I mean, you don't get used to it,
02:27
but the expectations are growing.
02:30
And your expectations are that you should be able to fight always for the win.
02:37
And that's always the case that when you go to the event and when you win,
02:45
there is a risk sometimes that you think that the winning is getting normal,
02:52
but it never should get absolutely normal because it's always something special when you win.
03:00
Because meaning that when you win, you have to work for it, you have to do things right.
03:04
It's not that it's an element which comes to you on the straight table.
03:15
So that's always something you have to remind back in your head that the day when you start to get it too comfortable,
03:23
then the others will pass by you quite quickly.
03:27
So that is a challenge in part which you have to add used in your head.
03:35
Yeah, there is no place for complacency.
03:39
And last year, we saw an incredible start to the year.
03:43
I think seven wins on the bounce and then we got to Estonia and everybody expected an absolute whitewash in Estonia.
03:53
And you talk to Tom, Fowler and other people around the team and they say,
03:57
look, if it wasn't for Oliver Solberg in Estonia, we would have lost.
04:02
There was Tanak there strong in the Hyundai.
04:05
Every now and then you need these events, don't you?
04:07
And then obviously Acropolis came soon after that and it just wakes you up a little bit again.
04:12
Doesn't it? It hurts more maybe when you were used to winning.
04:16
Yes, that's a good way to say it because it wakes you up.
04:20
Because then when you get a little bit comfortable with these winnings,
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then comes a moment that you realize that, OK, wow, the others have been working hard
04:29
and they found out something more than the others.
04:33
So like Oliver Solberg, when he came to Estonia, he was out from the box
04:39
when he was doing the testing, finding a little bit different setup than our top drivers.
04:45
And then the setup was working and he basically was very comfortable with the car
04:52
and he won the event.
04:54
Then we did the correction with the other guys for the Finland.
04:58
But that's sometimes like when you are too much in your own circle,
05:02
these moments comes up that somebody goes a little bit out from the box
05:07
and finds something else or does things a little bit differently.
05:12
But you need also these moments because that keeps you more in the game.
05:22
Because if you don't get them, then it can start to go step by step downhill
05:30
if you are comfortable with the winning all the time.
05:35
And you referenced there that Oliver Solberg obviously looked for something different
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from the GR Yaris rally one and he found that he took the car in terms of a setup
05:46
in quite a different direction in the softness of the car
05:49
and not necessarily talking suspension, talking about the transmission
05:53
and the way that the diffs are locking.
05:55
It's quite different the way he drives the car.
05:57
And for sure, we know that Elvin and the other drivers have tried
06:01
and still struggle to get that same feeling that he does.
06:05
Going into Croatia, how different will Oliver's setup be for Tarmac
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than it would be for Gravel?
06:14
Oliver's driving style is when you look at the way he has been driving
06:18
for instance in Monte.
06:20
He has a very, very good confidence for the front of the car with the turning
06:25
and the way he is turning, it's just making it very easy turning
06:31
and he trusts the front a lot.
06:33
So yeah, on Gravel he is different, but on Tarmac it's not so big difference
06:42
with the car, especially when you go like a normal Tarmac event.
06:46
Monte is different because especially this year with the conditions
06:49
so the car had to be quite different than a normal Tarmac event.
06:56
But now the Croatia is in Tarmac event and generally speaking
07:00
the cars will be quite similar.
07:05
Yes, and obviously Croatia, it is four starts in the WRC on the calendar,
07:12
four wins for Toyota.
07:13
How confident are you of continuing that run into five?
07:20
Now the location is in a different place.
07:23
I think there's only three stages which are similar than done in the past
07:27
so there's a lot of new stages.
07:29
So then it also makes the question that who can make good base notes
07:34
on the new roads, who is riding the confidence.
07:37
So it's not necessarily all about how is the setup of the car
07:43
but now it's also the matter of the new stages
07:46
who can find the good feeling with those stages.
07:52
So I expect now also that the Hyundai will be closer.
07:59
They've been a bit behind, I must say.
08:03
They haven't been on the level I expected them to be
08:05
but now in Croatia I think there is a chance that they will be
08:10
jealous of us a lot more.
08:13
And of course we hope to see also sports forwards
08:18
that they would be also joining for the fights.
08:23
But like I said, I think overall this event is more,
08:28
now will be more focused with the notes
08:31
and with who can get comfortable with the new roads.
08:37
Yes, absolutely. You talked a little bit about it there.
08:41
We obviously look forward to the challenge from M Sport Ford.
08:44
The guy who comes into Croatia on the back of a win is of course John Armstrong,
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one at European Championship level in the Fiesta last year.
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John is demonstrating quite a lot of confidence,
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early doors in the season.
08:59
He's a little bit older.
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Jari Mati, have you been surprised at what you've seen from John?
09:06
Yeah, for me he has done some really, really good stage times.
09:10
Like Monti was running very well.
09:11
Unfortunately he just had to retire on the final day.
09:14
But overall he's been very positive to see his performance
09:18
and I think it's good for the championship,
09:24
good for the Ford M Sport team of course.
09:26
And hopefully he could even fight for the podium in the future events.
09:34
Yeah, absolutely. You know that team very well.
09:37
You know what a result like that would mean to them.
09:40
But it is a very difficult rally Croatia
09:43
and one of the aspects that Alvin talked a lot about after his test
09:48
is there's an element of guesswork here
09:50
because you are setting the differentials, the ramp angles,
09:54
what you want from the car.
09:56
You're setting that for Croatia.
09:58
That is then paired of course with Canaries.
10:01
How difficult a job is that?
10:03
Because you know we saw snow on the test last week for Taka.
10:07
We could have snow next week but then we could get to Croatia
10:10
and it could be 22, 23 degrees and bone dry.
10:13
It's a compromise isn't it?
10:16
It is a compromise because in Canaries the roads are very different compared to Croatia.
10:22
In Canaries you don't cut at all.
10:25
You know to clean very, very clean like a racing circuit style of Tarmac event.
10:32
When in Croatia you know it's still dirty and cuts and Tarmac is changing a lot.
10:37
So yeah, for sure it is not an ideal situation
10:41
which you have to do the compromise with the differential setups.
10:47
So yeah, you have to be a bit cautious always what you choose.
10:50
What you feel like on the test road if this feels extremely good
10:55
but you have to remember that you can't build it for that road
10:59
and for that rally that it needs to also work.
11:02
So you might need to think about it a little bit rethink
11:04
and maybe take the option which you feel good.
11:10
You know there would have been better option
11:12
but overall you have to think about the package of two events.
11:16
Yeah, for a driver that's really frustrating isn't it?
11:19
There's no doubt about that.
11:26
We spoke about Taka very briefly there, some snow on his test
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but who cares about snow when you've just won Safari.
11:34
That was a big win for him.
11:37
Yes, it was a huge win.
11:39
It's something which he has been looking forward to for a long time
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and it meant a lot to him.
11:46
It's been close and I told him on rally speed
11:51
and I said Elvin was very strong over there
11:54
and I said when you get those podiums
11:58
and the podiums is making your self confidence stronger
12:01
the wind will follow you
12:03
but it's very difficult to come with the situation
12:06
when you don't have a good result underneath
12:10
and then you try to win the next event.
12:11
It's always a big challenge
12:16
because if your self confidence is not in the right level
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or the high level let's say, it's more difficult
12:24
and the situation that he comes in the difficult positions
12:28
and tries to win the event
12:31
and he has done a great job in Japan and in Kenya
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and in Sweden earlier
12:39
but not being able to really get that victory
12:44
so I think it will boost overall his self confidence
12:48
but also gives to Newspark for the future
12:54
because he has achieved one step on his carry.
13:02
Just take us back briefly
13:04
just a few years to Sweden 08
13:07
when you won your first ever WRC round
13:11
what does it do to you?
13:13
Do you sleep easier at night?
13:15
It must lift some of that burden off your shoulders.
13:19
It definitely does.
13:21
I came with the bad event, Pat Monte Carlo
13:23
when I came to the first event to win it
13:25
and I remember how easy it was afterwards to go to Mexico
13:28
you know the energy level that you had
13:32
and the feeling that you had to go to the next event
13:35
it was so much easier than earlier
13:38
I mean it's just you could feel and breathe easier after that victory.
13:46
Yes, although breathing in Mexico is always quite difficult
13:50
because of the altitude.
13:53
But yeah, Taka, championship challenger this year?
14:00
Let's say that I think this year
14:04
Taka will do good results
14:06
I'm not sure if this is the year to really just challenge the championship
14:11
I think next year is the stronger year for Taka
14:15
really to be a championship challenger
14:21
There is still some difficult events
14:24
I think where Taka is
14:27
where we just need to get with him
14:30
a little bit more experience
14:33
and let's say improve the performance
14:37
we know that the areas with Taka
14:39
he's good in Sweden, he's good in
14:43
and normally Kenya, Portugal, Japan, Finland, Estonia
14:47
but there are some events where also we need to improve
14:51
the performance level
14:54
which he hasn't felt necessarily so comfortable
14:57
because overall in the championship
15:00
if you want to be world champion
15:05
basically in even in the bad days
15:08
you need to be in top four
15:12
when it's not going well
15:14
you need to be still top four
15:16
to score the points for the championship
15:20
Yes, that's very true
15:24
Elvin Evans is looking stronger than ever this year
15:28
Last year we would have said the same
15:30
and then up on his blind side came a Frenchman
15:33
who'd won it already eight times
15:34
and beat him to the line for a ninth championship
15:37
What do you do if you're Elvin Evans this year
15:40
that you are in the box seat
15:43
you're looking strong
15:44
all of the ducks look like they're lining up beautifully
15:48
how do you just stay focused and just do your job?
15:52
Elvin has been so close so many times
15:56
and then earlier when it was the moment
16:00
when we thought that it's his year
16:02
then Kallero Van Bera came and won the title
16:06
so of course that was a bit devastating for Elvin
16:10
and I think the important part is now
16:12
that the experience taken from the past
16:15
is that concentrate on his own job
16:18
his performance level is there to win the title
16:22
he has, he's strong in every event
16:26
he's the most consistent driver of the championship
16:29
Last year maybe one win more could help him
16:36
so maybe those just a couple of more wins
16:39
is needed for the year
16:41
but the biggest thing is for me
16:43
is that he doesn't take the pressure from Oliver Schulberg
16:46
it's the reminder that not to take the pressure
16:48
like what happened with Kalle
16:50
that is something that he needs to just focus his own performance
16:53
and then he has everything to
16:58
all the tools are there to win the title
17:01
yeah absolutely but I mean it has been a pretty astonishing start
17:04
hasn't it for Oliver to come in to win Monte
17:08
to show the pace that he's shown in Safari and Sweden
17:12
it's almost impossible not to see him as a championship challenger this year
17:16
yeah I think he's a challenger really
17:19
you can see that he's grown up
17:21
he's very mature the way he has been driving of course winning Monte
17:25
but even in Sweden when he had some moments
17:28
he realised that he has to back off a bit
17:32
and take the points for the championship
17:33
so he also understood that side
17:36
and I think that is making him stronger now
17:39
and really be a championship challenger this year
17:43
yeah absolutely that's this year done
17:46
we are now looking forward to 2027
17:49
what are your thoughts
17:50
obviously there's a lot of chatter right now about 27
17:53
the new cars coming in constructors
17:56
all of that side of things
17:57
what are your thoughts looking forward to 27
18:01
well at the moment if I look for instance
18:03
the start list for the Croatia
18:08
and I can see that there is more than 30 rally 2 starting
18:12
and the earlier years of let's say the early 2000s
18:17
we had more than 30 close to 40 world rally cars
18:20
starting the WSE events
18:25
so this is what I hope to see next year
18:29
is that in the main category we have this big number of the cars
18:32
where there's a lot of privateers, where there are manufacturers
18:36
but yeah the main class we have a big number of the cars
18:40
and I think that's now the right actual way we are going
18:43
and I hope will happen next year
18:44
I think for the championship that would be very good
18:48
yeah if you were a privateer how excited would you be
18:53
at the prospect you know Jari Mati-Lavoli
18:56
you could restart your career you can go out
18:58
and I'm sure you'll get a discount on a GR Yaris rally 2
19:02
you could win Monte Carlo
19:05
yeah if I think about back you know the day when Nitro for instance
19:08
you know we when we came to the world championship
19:11
there was some events we run the old WSE Corolla
19:14
and the thing is that when you tried to
19:17
you knew that with an old car but you know in private hands
19:21
that if you could show some you know strong states times
19:25
and that could maybe lead something and now that
19:28
that is coming possible
19:32
because now it's been difficult with the rally ones
19:35
they've been so expensive cars that there are a lot of drivers
19:39
and especially younger drivers
19:41
they can't afford to rent the rally one
19:43
but they know they can afford to drive with the rally 2 car
19:46
and they know that now there is easier to show the potential
19:52
so which basically is giving me more opportunities
19:56
to the young drivers
19:59
and then also to be boosting the starting list
20:04
if you think about in the past there's been like
20:08
for instance in the 90s Italian driver Kunico
20:12
he won the San Remo as a private ear
20:15
so it has happened before
20:16
and even you know Harry Rovanbera with the private WSE Corolla
20:21
was basically showing his performance in rally Finland
20:25
and with that performance you know he got to deal with the Peugeot
20:29
then for the year after
20:32
so that is the right action now
20:36
and what I like about the new regulations for the next year
20:41
Yeah, no absolutely but there is of course
20:43
there is another car coming the WRC 27 spec car
20:48
we've seen pictures, some footage of Toyota's prototype car
20:52
I understand you haven't driven it yet
20:54
but how excited, do you think you might get the keys soon
20:57
how excited would you be to get behind a wheel of that?
21:01
I haven't driven the car
21:03
of course it's always excited to test the new cars
21:06
at some point you know it would be nice if our technical right
21:09
don't follow gives me gives the opportunity at some point to test it
21:12
so of course it would be nice to see the car
21:17
I mean it's great that we are preparing for the season
21:23
and even though we have the new car
21:27
still it's very difficult to make big differences
21:29
between the current rally 2 cars and the new cars
21:32
the regulations is quite strict
21:34
so I don't think there's going to be any big differences
21:37
but I think the main difference is where you can do the
21:43
is probably a bit higher dynamics
21:45
where you can make the difference compared to rally 2 cars
21:48
Yes, yeah but I remember when you started in your Rollers team principle
21:52
it is important to have an understanding of how the car works isn't it
21:57
to interact with the drivers to understand what they are talking to the engineers about
22:02
Yes, it is absolutely right because
22:05
you know sometimes when you follow the discussions with drivers
22:09
and we are talking about the setup you know I had to change the differential
22:13
because the car was understeering and you know we changed the springs
22:16
because the car is not you know with the rear is oversteering too much
22:24
and then you know then when you have experience of the driver or the car
22:28
like I mentioned at some point that
22:32
in the stories when I talk about the GR Corolla and the GR Yaris
22:37
the difference is that you know that the nature of the car is
22:40
every car has a different nature
22:42
and when you know the nature you know what the car needs
22:45
and what are the tricks and that is something you want to experiment
22:49
that it's easier to communicate with the drivers
22:52
Yeah, now one car that has a great nature
22:55
is your Celica Turbo 4WD ST185
23:00
the car that you won the historic championship with
23:02
what can you tell us about your season back in that car
23:07
competing with the Celica again this year
23:09
how exciting is that story?
23:13
Yeah, it's been very nice to start the season in Costa Pará
23:16
there were some new cars
23:19
the more modern cars because now you can enter in the championship
23:23
even the cars up to the year 2000
23:26
so there is two different tarmac championships
23:30
but some events are you know the same
23:33
and it was nice to see these cars you know new cars
23:37
Renault Clear Williams sees for instance running up there
23:41
Superwind Predsa's and so on
23:44
and then to see the level of the Celica where it is compared to the others
23:47
so that's nice and also those events
23:52
there's always great atmosphere
23:54
and I you know really
23:57
enjoy the driving the car
24:01
it's a great car to drive
24:03
even though it's an old car but it doesn't feel that old I have to say
24:08
No, I would agree with that having sampled it with you
24:11
good with it was an experience
24:15
and Franco Delacorte in a 306 Maxi that really takes us back doesn't it?
24:20
Yes, Francois is a very quick driver
24:24
and driven that car in the past
24:26
so I think there will be some events where we will be meeting each other
24:30
so it will be definitely very inspiring
24:34
and exciting to see the level of Francois
24:38
and on his 306 Kitka compared to me and with the Celica
24:42
so looking forward to those competitions where we are
24:47
starting against each other
24:50
Absolutely, Jari Matty as ever
24:52
it's an absolute joy to have you joining us here on Spin the Rally pod
24:56
Thank you very much for your time
24:58
You're very welcome
25:00
Excellent, now if you've enjoyed this content then don't forget
25:03
Join us at ClubDartFish
25:05
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25:06
it's at Patreon or follow the link off the homepage
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and we will see you next time
