Layton on Appraisals, Dunne on China, RussFlipsWhips on Social | Daily Dealer Live

We're doing better as a result of social media presence.

It doesn't do those three things, then it's on the chopping block.

It's in return on investment discussion.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Daily Dealer Live.

I'm your host, Sam Dark, and thanks for choosing to be here on this Monday, March 16th.

Hey, it's St. Patrick's Day tomorrow, everybody.

Happy St. Patty's Day.

Hopefully you all find yourself into green of some sort or another tomorrow.

But for today, let's start out with a question for every dealer watching.

What if I told you that right now, inside your service drive, sitting in that waiting room,

there are 15 to 20 deals a month, you might not be capturing.

It's not a new idea, but also it's not easy to execute on.

Today, we're going to break down exactly how one dealer group is appraising 750 to 1,000 service customers every single month.

And they're turning those into real deals.

Plus, how they tripled their internet close rate, which is also not an easy thing to do in this 2026 competitive environment.

Then we'll zoom way out and ask a bigger question.

Is China about to reshape the global auto market?

And what does that mean for US dealers?

And finally, up today, we're tackling something a lot of dealers still don't believe.

Can social media actually help sell cars?

Because some people are selling 30 plus units a month from TikTok alone.

And then what happens when salespeople go rogue online?

So quick question for the chat as we get started today.

Remember, we're streaming live across all CDG social media platforms.

Post into the comments how many deals last month came from your service lane type the number.

I'm super curious.

And first, let's dive into today's industry headlines.

First up today, kicking off the news.

Kelly Bluebook is out with February pricing data.

The headline number is a 3.4 percent year over year increase in average transaction price,

bringing that price to get this $49,353.

We are knocking on that 50k.

That's well above the long run annual average of about nine tenths of a percent.

But Cox Automotive's Aaron Keating also put it in good context, noting that outside of the supply crunch era

when prices were running up 13%, the industry's historical average is closer to 3%.

In other words, this is closer to normalization than anything.

And EV transaction prices actually declined year over year down to about 55,300,

which tracks with where demand has been sitting.

Next up today in the news, Honda announced last week it's scrapping three planned EV launches,

including the Honda OSUV, Honda O-Saloon and the Acura RSX.

With that, the OEM is now facing its first potential annual loss in nearly 70 years as a public company,

with up to $15.7 billion in restructuring costs tied to its EV business.

Honda cited slowing US EV demand, easing emissions regulations,

changes to EV incentives and tariffs as the reason behind the decision.

On one side, for those skeptical of aggressive EV timelines,

the move validates concerns that mandates and targets have outpaced real-world demand and consumer affordability.

But on the other side, some argue that the retreat says more about Honda's ability to compete

in an increasingly crowded electrified market,

or rivals like Toyota already offer a wide range of hybrid and EV options across nearly every segment.

Also in the news last week, the FTC sent warning letters to 97 dealer groups across the country

over concerns that advertised prices don't reflect what customers end up paying online.

The agency laid out six specific practices it considers illegal,

things like advertising prices that exclude mandatory fees,

basing prices on rebates not everyone qualifies for,

requiring add-ons that aren't disclosed up front and advertising vehicles that aren't actually available.

The letter also calls out three active enforcement cases by name Lindsay Chevrolet,

leader auto group and Asbury auto group as examples of where things went wrong.

To be clear, a warning letter isn't a lawsuit and it doesn't carry an immediate penalty.

And finally up today we turn to the CDG Bicell Tracker, my favorite jingles of the news.

There we go.

One day it was out today.

Stone's Auto Group, props to brothers Mitch and Blake Loveland, who I know from my time in Idaho,

just purchased two dealerships in Jackson, Wyoming from the Aug family who had run them for over 50 years.

Those stores, Teton Motor Chevrolet and Teton Motor Subaru,

have been renamed Stone's Chevrolet and Stone's Subaru.

For context, Jackson sits in Teton County.

It's one of the wealthiest counties in the country with a per capita income of over $500,000.

And the Loveland brothers now own half of the new car dealerships in town,

including those over the border, I believe in Rexburg, Idaho.

The broker said the fit made sense from day one.

They're a small Idaho town.

They know the market and they know the community.

As always, if you're looking to keep a pulse on the Bicell Transactions out there,

you can find out more by checking out the CDG Bicell Tracker at cdgbicell.com.

And that's a wrap.

Again, we love our jingle.

That's our wrap on today's industry news.

All right, we got a great show coming up as a reminder.

Come into the text chat.

We'll bring it into today's show.

It'll guide today's conversation.

We've got a great show coming up.

Let's start out today with Hicks Layton, General Sales Manager at Hicks Automotive Group.

Hicks, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

Glad to be here.

By the way, first question I have to ask Hicks Layton, Hicks Auto Group,

any association, any affiliation, are you related by?

There is.

I'm a third generation successor.

We've been around since 1966.

Very good.

Okay.

Since 1966, you're in the Corpus Christi, Texas market.

You've got infinity.

You've got Nissan, also part of the group.

You've got Suru and Mercedes-Benz.

Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you are and what you do, Hicks.

Sure.

I've been in the business going on five years now.

I started selling cars in September of 2021,

which was a pretty exciting time to start in the business.

And I've worked through a couple of different roles.

I sold cars for about a year.

I've written service.

I did FNI for a while, and I'm in a kind of hybrid finance sales manager job.

But it's been a great experience.

I've learned a lot over the past few years.

Graduated from NADA Academy, which helped with my knowledge a lot

and just trying to keep getting better and better every day.

That's awesome.

Well, you turned as a sales manager about a year ago to the service department.

You said things were a little bit slow for a short period of time.

And you said, hey, how can we better take care of our customers back in service?

And as a result, today at your Auto Group, you're appraising about 750

to 1,000 service customers a month.

Walk us through that process step by step.

And what was the business need that created you to go back into service

and check out your appraised customers there?

Last year, around January, February, things slowed down a little bit.

We weren't getting as many internet leads.

Phone calls weren't coming in.

So we had a management meeting where we were discussing ideas

on how to start finding more car deals in the service department.

And you hear the term working the service drive a lot, but that's kind of generic.

And we wanted to get more focused and see how we could affect real change.

So we started off by getting access for all our sales managers

for our service lane management software.

And they were tasked with identifying vehicles that we thought would be

potential trade-ins and particularly vehicles that we could certify.

And we started appraising a ton of vehicles in the beginning.

I was doing a lot of it myself and making offers to customers.

And in the beginning, we were printing out these what looked like checks

from our inventory management software and making offers on as many vehicles

as we possibly could and started selling some cars in the beginning.

But I think those checks had some unintended consequences.

For one, I don't think our customers really knew what to do with the information

most of the time.

And then two, we were presenting them with the number that they could go shop around.

So we've refined the process over time.

What it looks like now is we actually have a dedicated employee

that identifies the vehicles based on criteria that the management team sets.

And then the sales managers appraise the vehicles.

And instead of printing those what look like checks,

we have pretty personalized targeted messaging for each customer

depending on whether their warranty is about to expire,

if their mileage is approaching 100,000 different buckets that they would fall into.

We have different messaging that we send the salespeople out with.

So you mentioned inventory management.

You mentioned a system that you're using to generate these quotes.

What are the systems that you're using for that?

So our service lane management tool is dealer logics.

And it's pretty easy to get access and watch the service drive throughout the day.

And ACV Max is our inventory tool.

And that's where we can print those checks from.

Okay.

So both of those integrate well together and provide...

When you say that it's a customized message to each customer,

how do you decide how to customize it?

Is there an automation element or an AI element that's helping with that?

No.

And there probably is a solution out there.

Our process is pretty manual at this time.

So we're looking to see whether the customer is in a positive or negative equity situation,

how many payments they have left in their contract.

We're really looking at holistically and seeing what's the best way to approach them

to increase our chances of converting them.

So that helps a lot recently.

And so of all the service vehicles coming in and out of the service department at your stores,

what percent get appraised?

I would say at this point of all the eligible vehicles that fall into our criteria,

almost 75 or 80 percent.

We do miss a few here and there, but for the most part,

if it's within the year range that we're looking and mileage,

it's getting looked at and getting appraised.

So one of the objections we hear often on the show and in the industry is,

hey, you know what, if we're offering to appraise every single vehicle in the service drive,

ultimately there are those customers that have just been there and they keep coming back and back.

All of a sudden you're re-hitting customers.

How do you deal with that kind of that idea that, you know, after they've been in a few times,

that's going to create a problem because you're just re-appraising the same vehicles over and over again.

That's true.

And so that's the employee that we have that identifies the vehicle.

She looks in our CRM to see what communication has happened in the past,

you know, what they might have said when we presented the offer last time,

what the number looks like.

So that's factored into our approach because we don't want to hit our customers too many times

or upset them with, you know, a lower value, you know, too soon after their last visit.

So Yoga Cars comes into the comments.

Hey, how much time is the team spending each day looking at appointments and evaluating deals?

What does that look like from a time commitment standpoint to be active in the service drive

and appraise that many vehicles?

So we try to be as prepared as possible.

We start looking at appointments three days in advance to know what's coming in,

which helps to expedite things once the vehicle actually gets checked in.

But we have a lot of waiters as well and non-appointments that are walk-ins, rather,

and we want to make sure they get looked at too.

So we have to be monitoring the service drive 24-7 for the walk-ins

and then sometimes those appointments don't show up.

So we want to be pretty aware of every car that's getting checked into service.

Okay, so about 85% or so you say of the vehicles you're appraising.

What's the trade acquisition rate and what's the conversion rate?

So what percentage of those are you successfully getting the trade in

and then what percent say, hey, I want to buy a new car and come in and buy a vehicle?

So the percent, because we're appraising so many vehicles, the percentage is pretty low.

It's within the single digits.

But we were selling anywhere from five, six, seven cars a month out of the service lane

and now we're doing 15 to 20.

So we're selling more cars and the Nissan dealers listening to this will know that

we have a new car objective that we pretty much have to hit.

And so I was looking at, you know, different opportunities to try to get to that number

and this has been a huge bone to get us there.

And then we're also getting trade-ins that don't necessarily need too much recon

and we can certify and bolster a used car inventory, which is also really important right now.

Yeah.

And so the number we call at the very beginning, that's five stores.

So are each of the five stores doing very similar?

Does everybody is everybody doing the same process?

They are.

So it started working.

Our Nissan store in Corpus Christi is our flagship store and it's our highest volume store.

So it's our guinea pig where we test out new ideas and it was working well there.

So we decided to roll it out to all five stores and we've seen success everywhere.

It's just been great.

Do you have any metrics on the quality of used cars you're getting when the customer trades in at that point?

The recon is probably less than going to auction.

Probably the day turn is less than auction inventory.

Do you have any data that supports that?

So we kind of vary our approach based on, you know, the vehicle we're looking at.

If it's a little older and Miley, you know, we know that it's going to go to the auction.

We usually present one of those checks and we don't really have a different messaging that we present to those customers.

We just present a check.

But with the vehicles that are in that sweet spot, you know, anywhere from 2020 to 2024 with low miles, the recon is pretty low.

You know, we try to make sure they're in good condition and then turn them pretty quickly.

Very good.

So another interesting thing is we turn from the service lane back to advertising.

Your conversion rate, you mentioned, has tripled because of a couple of things that you've done.

You went from, I think you said 5% conversion to 15%.

How do you define that conversion?

And then in March of 2026, what could other dealers learn that you did that tripled your conversion?

So we're talking about internet leads specifically, correct?

Yes.

So we actually, about a year ago, decided to get rid of our BDCs at all of our stores, which is a long story that I won't get into here.

But as soon as we did that, it fell into the hands of our salespeople to respond to leads.

And that was a disaster because there were leads that salespeople were claiming and sometimes calling once and then never following up with again.

And so I wanted to have a consistent process that all of our salespeople would follow with management supervision and make sure that every lead is treated, you know, with the utmost respect and treated as if it was a showroom visit.

So I looked up some information.

I saw there was a Harvard business study that showed that if you respond to an internet lead within one minute, you have a 391% higher chance of converting that lead.

And so I knew the name of the game was speed.

So there's response time requirements that salespeople have to follow in order to continue to receive internet leads.

But they have to send a video, walk around of the vehicle within five minutes of receiving a lead.

And then we have teamed up with Matador a few months ago, actually, which has helped with some of the texting email follow up.

And these salespeople are required to follow up making phone calls and making sure we still touch that lead for weeks after it comes in, if it doesn't convert.

But it has dramatically impacted our conversion rate.

What's the technology that you use to deliver the video to the consumer?

The video, we've been using co-video for a couple of years now.

And we just made it mandatory.

Every time an internet lead comes in, they have to receive a video no matter what.

And how are you monitoring that?

Is it a reporting system inside co-video?

Who's your CRM and how do you make sure that that's happening?

So we use VIN solutions, which integrates with co-video.

So I can click on an internet leads profile and see if a video has been sent, if it's been viewed.

And then there is reporting in co-video.

So I can actually go in and watch the videos and kind of spot check the quality as well.

Yeah.

And that process, that speed to the lead, increased your conversion by three times.

You went from five to 15%.

Exactly.

Speed makes all the difference.

Speed does make a ton of difference.

You know what's interesting to me?

So you're a younger dealer.

You're younger in this industry.

You come in with a different perspective.

What do you think the strengths are that you have as a younger manager in automotive?

What advantage do you have to people who have been in the business for a long time, would you say?

I think I'm pretty adept with technology and trying to stay on the forefront of AI

and making sure that we're utilizing modern advancements in technology to better our operation.

And I've also had the benefit of going through the NADA Academy.

And I attend the convention every year.

And I get so many great ideas from other dealers that are trying new things and experimenting.

And I want to constantly improve and get better and better every day.

So just trying to stay on the cutting edge of technology has helped a lot, for sure.

So as you've implemented some of these other processes and procedures in a smaller town, smaller dealership,

you can imagine you're going to get some feedback.

You're going to get some pushback.

Creating videos.

We'll talk with Chris Rus in a moment.

He's our third guest up.

We'll bring you back in at the round table.

Engaging customers in the service drive.

Responding to leads as quickly.

How have you dealt with what is some of that pushback looked like?

And then how do you respond to that as a younger leader in automotive in March of 26?

So most of the pushback I've gotten was from my veteran salespeople that are not used to using video

and doing things the same way for the past couple of decades.

And so the way that I found to best win them over is to show them evidence as to why this works.

So that's why I pulled that data from that Harvard Business Study about lead response times.

NADA has a lot of great information about your increased conversion rates using video.

And so when I can get buy-in from my veterans and they set such a great example for my Greenpeace,

that's the way that we've been able to make this work and fight those pushbacks.

And really, I mean, I've got some salespeople that have been with us 20, 30 years that are my top users with CoVideo

and Matador and all of our new technology.

So that's been really helpful as well.

Do some kind of self-select out?

They just are like, hey, I don't love the new expectations, so I'm going to go do my own thing?

Or did everybody get on board?

For the most part, you know, we lost a couple people over it.

But for the most part, people have bought in.

They see the value because you have an immediate impact.

You start selling more cars off the bat and it's pretty easy to see why it works.

Yeah, yeah.

That's awesome.

All right, we're going to have you back as part of a roundtable with Russ Phlipswitz in just a moment.

But we appreciate Hicks Layton, General Sales Manager at Hicks Automotive Group.

We appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your perspectives on all things, working the service drive

to create that 750 to 1,000 appraisals a month between your five stores.

And then also talking a little bit about your new process to triple lead conversion, including use of CoVideo.

Hicks Layton, thanks for being on the show.

We'll have you back in a moment.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you.

You know, what I love about that is I love a younger, newer perspective and automotive coming in with what really is kind of old ideas,

tried and true to old ideas, but being consistent with executing on the process to create that experience for the consumer,

props to him and that entire team for getting on board with it.

And you can start to see the beginnings of those results in the results they're having.

So let's talk for a moment.

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And we appreciate Stream Companies for supporting today's content,

including that fun conversation we just had with Hicks Layton about how to increase your effectiveness in the service lane,

which by the way is not a new idea in automotive,

but it's also not the easiest one to actually execute on.

A lot of dealers spend a ton of time back in service trying to figure that out.

Retention in 26 is the name of the game and that is ground zero for that is the service department.

So next up we turn to Michael Dunn, CEO of Dunn Insights LLC.

Michael, thanks for coming back on the show.

Hey, it's tremendous to be here with you on Monday.

Yeah, we appreciate you being here. Michael Spiegel was on with us talking about the Chinese Auto Threat and his own tour of BYD.

And we're working to get you on as well.

So we're glad to have you come back as a follow up conversation.

If you would, before I ask you a little bit about Chinese Autos,

would you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do out in automotive?

All right, native of Detroit, grew up the son of a legendary car spy, Jim Dunn.

If you've seen the covers of Auto Week and the old things on the news, Spie, the next generation Corvette.

I was the driver of the getaway car for him while he held his long lens Nikon camera out the window.

Very cool.

Okay, so future GM products at the Proving Grounds in Milford or out in Capis casing or out west in, you know, hot places like, what's it called, the desert out there.

Yeah, that was a whole cottage industry getting photos of that. Yeah, Death Valley.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that was the beginning and then the town of Detroit wasn't big enough for both of us.

So straight out of school, I went to Asia and there I was president of General Motors and also the lead for JD Power in China for many years, 26 all together.

Come back to the United States to advise dealers and investors on this big machine called China coming our way.

What is good, what's bad and what's unknown.

Interesting.

So do you speak Chinese then? That's a long time to spend in China.

Do you speak Mandarin?

Well, we don't.

You do.

Okay, I don't.

So I don't.

Paul Salisman comes into the text.

He says, I've seen a lot of Jim Dunn photos, despite photography still in art, but I would assume not as much anymore.

So is that true?

That's right.

The iPhone came along and he said, Jesus, I've got competitors in every direction now.

Yeah, yeah.

You can take great pics with the iPhone.

So yeah, yeah, it's a new era.

What an interesting perspective you must have about automotive and just business in China, having lived there as long as you did.

And then heading up General Motors operations in China.

So let's start here.

How serious is China's auto industry as a threat to U.S. dealers in March of 2006?

When I talk to dealers here in the United States, they get big eyes.

Oh my goodness.

I can't wait.

Great Chinese products heading our way.

Which one's the next Tesla?

Sorry, the next Hyundai or the next Tesla or the next Toyota?

Show us the one and we'll just hook up with them and start minting money.

And there's good reason for their enthusiasm.

The Chinese products are impressive.

They're high quality at low cost and they're very eager to access U.S. markets.

So those are all pluses.

On the other hand, China represents something we haven't seen before in the sense that don't think Japan or Korea think almost something from outer space.

They come to the biggest manufacturer of cars in the world, the biggest market.

They dominate EVs.

They dominate batteries.

They have a lot of confidence and that confidence translates into leverage in their minds.

Leverage.

Let me repeat that, okay?

They won't ever say that to you, but you are, you know, we're pawns in the big scheme of things.

And as a result, when it comes to commercial relationships, they really press that leverage in ways that are not comfortable or familiar to people in the West.

What are some examples of that as you think about BUID and other Chinese OEMs spreading across the globe?

What are examples of that pressure where it shows a lack of partnership but rather, you know, a transactional relationship?

Right.

So in the beginning, there's an arc.

We call it the Chinese arc.

So in the beginning, things will be absolutely lovely, honey, but wonderful.

We're going to make great money.

I love you.

Let's get married.

I have a lot of kids.

We're going to make so much money together.

And for the first six to nine months, often that's true.

They'll deliver the products earlier than expected.

You'll make money with them.

You'll go out to eat and everything is great.

And then around the nine month mark, maybe a year, you're going to your dealership to kill it some more with the Chinese cars and you look on your way down the street.

What is that?

Hold on.

That's another dealer going up.

That's my friend.

What's happening?

So you call back to your Chinese partner and you say, there must be some mistake.

There's a guy down the street here.

I know this is my market area and you respect that.

And the Chinese would say, we do respect that, but our customers, we really have to take care of the customer.

And that means making it more available, our products to them.

That's why we appointed that other guy.

But in the United States, in the United States, there's franchise law.

There are franchise laws.

So it'll be the irresistible force meeting the immovable object here in the United States.

Let's see.

But let me just say it this way.

The Chinese are aware of the franchise laws, never underestimate the ability of a Chinese company to find a workaround.

It's like water.

Oh, these are the rules.

I'm looking for the little holes.

I might find them.

So just be careful.

Would they be more tenacious at finding that loophole than a Volkswagen, let's say, with Scout and a Honda with, let's say, their in-road direct to consumer?

100X more tenacious, inventive, things you wouldn't imagine.

Wait, what?

Okay.

Yep.

They found it.

Or they created one.

For example, just look at what happened with TikTok.

I know it's a different industry.

But at the end of the Biden administration, by and large, both parties in Congress said, you know, we don't want TikTok here.

Not welcome here.

TikTok's not even able to operate in China.

Why should it be able to operate here?

A year later.

Okay.

Well, maybe we can work this out and here we are with TikTok.

So they'll go right to the top in terms of regulatory powers.

And they'll negotiate that level and at the operating level.

So just be aware and aware of their capabilities and their drive.

So business practice is very aggressive.

Eager K comes into the comments and he says EV vehicles in China, let's talk product, reached 600 mile range.

We're nowhere near that range yet.

Also, luxury vehicles in China are half the price of any other luxury vehicle and they have two times more in options.

If BYD entered the U.S. this year, what pricing advantage would they have potentially in our marketplace?

We're looking at now entered.

It's the U.S. is a tricky situation because we got the 100% tariffs.

So that's by and large.

The Chinese understand the only way they're going to access the U.S. market is through manufacturing here.

They got it.

They got the message.

They're not going to export from China.

But if they were able to, when they go into markets like Mexico or Brazil or the U.K. is recently in London,

they're pricing things at 25 to 30% lower costs than the competition 25 to 30%.

And these are not crummy cars.

These are good cars.

So where markets are open, Australia, UK, Singapore, they're just pouring in there at those discounts.

Now, what we don't know yet is when they're forced to manufacture here in the United States in order to have access,

what does that do to their cost structures?

I'm optimistic.

I'm confident that they'll still find a way to price it like 20% lower than the benchmark for a given segment.

So how do you respond?

It seems to me one of the biggest risks is not so much business to franchise dealers.

It's politically to a politician that would say, hey, I want cheap product in the U.S.

I want to give the consumer, the end user, an inexpensive, well-built product to kind of cater to that crowd and allow it in.

Is that a challenge?

I mean, if you could truly manufacture a better product for less and offer it in the U.S., that's a free market principle.

And there are a lot of politicians that would have an appetite for allowing that to happen.

That's a great point.

It's exactly an illustration of how the Chinese will find work around.

So recently I met with a Chinese, a major Chinese manufacturer, and they said,

we've already plotted the top 10 states where we'll likely go to manufacture in the States.

We won't do a joint venture.

We'll come in alone.

And for each of those states, we have a picture of the governor of the state and a score of friendliness to us on a scale of 1 to 10.

So have they done their homework?

Yes.

Do they know where they want to take things?

Yes.

And are they optimistic that the states, just as you say, will go, oh, jobs, lower cost product, tax revenues, bring it.

But you would issue a word of caution that the U.S. marketplace, actually, let me ask this.

What should a dealer do in March of 2026, thinking about this as a risk in terms of competition, franchise law, pricing, and product?

How do we respond?

Dealer being a dealer, we sell cars, right?

That's the best product for the value for money in the world.

We wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't pursue it.

My only note of caution is you're going to run up against, when the Chinese talk about partnerships, they'll talk about win-win.

And in China, win-win means China wins twice.

Okay.

So a Westerners, a dealer here goes win-win.

That's great.

Yes.

I love this.

We'll have to devote a lot of resources to managing that relationship, staying on the offensive, and not being pushed around.

That's the key.

Yes, of course, as a dealer, you want to sell cars.

But it's just a word of warning.

And you can talk to dealers in other markets.

It isn't always rosy, the outcome.

So do you think American dominance and automotive globally is at risk in 2026, given their aggressive stance globally, manufacturing vehicles, or is it already done?

It's very close to being over.

So there is light, a little bit of glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Where's that?

We have to move very fast.

Okay.

They have advantages.

They have the supply chains, the speed, the subsidies, the scale, the ambition.

They have the batteries and battery supply chains.

They have rare earth metal.

They have us.

They have us in so many ways.

I would like if I have one request for everybody, whether you're a dealer or just an average American.

What is it?

Be aware of our position.

We're not leading anymore.

We're the underdog.

We got hustle.

So if the goal is to get back to leading to reassert the dominance of the American auto industry, how does the US do that in March of 2026?

Aside from being careful and moving forward with caution as it relates to Chinese manufacturers, what do we do?

Yes.

Caution and care on the Chinese side, on our own side at home, more daring and more recklessness.

We have to move from preserving the comfort and familiarity of what we have today and say the only way we can sustain this and maintain it is to take bold, daring leaps and risk.

So you're Elon Musk.

I know Elon Musk and Tesla do not have dealers.

I get that, but let's be smart as Americans.

Look at his track record in terms of innovation.

Look at the United States today.

SpaceX, Tesla and his other Neuralink without Elon Musk.

We need about 50 more Elon Musk's in order to really breakthrough and see a recovery of our auto industry.

Riding out status quo and maintaining the job.

So if you're the head, if you're the head right now of a major OEM in the United States, what would one or two things you would do today that would be daring, that would be bold, that would be Elon Musk-esque to forward those OEMs globally?

Well, they have a really tough job.

So on the one hand, keep building your trucks, nothing wrong with the SUVs, make your profits.

Totally no problem with that.

But you have to say the goal would be to be globally competitive.

So Elon has a model-wide, best-selling car worldwide in Europe, in Asia, in the United States.

He did something that Detroit has been trying to do for a long time.

That's not that.

In the last 10 years, we've withdrawn from global markets, shrunk back into North America.

We have to be on the offensive and say, what do we need to do to be globally competitive in places like Australia, UK, Thailand, Brazil?

We're not there anymore.

So that would be my first thing.

Let's build a globally competitive auto industry.

What does it take to get there?

Rather than let's protect what we have here at home.

So Dan C. comes into the comments and he says, hey, we've been told repeatedly that we're leading and that we're winning.

What do you say to the consumer or to the auto industry exec that says, look, American automotive has been dominant for decades and continues to win and be dominant.

What's your response?

The market is still fantastic by far the most lucrative market in the world.

That's why the Chinese won in here.

So that A-plus in terms of the value of our market.

But if you look at just the Detroit three, market shares in the last 10, 20 years have dropped by half.

I think they're now globally at about 13%.

You can send it out because we're not competing anymore and not markets outside the United States.

Where's that going?

So, I mean, Toyota, yes, powerful Tesla, yes.

4GM and Stellantis, I would say at risk.

They need to turn things around.

Otherwise, I think it's just a narrative out there.

We're the best.

We're not the best anymore.

In fact, I'm reminded of a conversation with my dad several years ago when Tesla was just coming up.

He test drove the Tesla as I did.

And I said, what do you think?

And he said, what do I think?

I think this car puts a lie to 40 years of lectures I've heard from engineers from the Detroit three.

Whoa.

And he would not be a guy to say something like that unless he really meant it.

So, Detroit's fixated right now with how do we compete with the Chinese?

There's Tesla, right?

Who do you think the Chinese copy and look up to?

Tesla, it's right here.

It's like, it's one of those things from the Bible where, oh, he's from our own town.

We can't be worth talking to or looking at.

The benchmark is right here in our own backyard.

That's the second thing I'd do if I was a lead.

Instead of Jim Farley talking about Xiaomi over in China, let's look at what Tesla's doing.

Yeah.

Okay.

Before we go into privacy, which I want to talk privacy data concerns, which of the US based OEMs?

Let's take Tesla off the table because you've already talked about how they're winning.

When you think of the big three, when you think of those, and maybe those even with big US based manufacturing like BMW,

who's poised best to compete with the Chinese here and abroad?

OEM wise.

Among the big three, I think the vote would have to go at this point in time of the three probably general motors.

Why?

I say that because they're the most advanced in understanding that the battery is the new engine.

To be really competitive going forward, you have to be excellent at batteries yourselves.

Whereas, Stellantis Outsources, Ford is looking at partnerships with CATL.

I don't like that arrangement.

I'll just be direct because I think it creates a dependency situation.

GM hired a guy named Kurt Kelty, who was the original master of Tesla's battery program for 10 years.

He knows batteries.

He knows battery supply chains.

He's a world-class professional and he's beginning to build at GM a capability of batteries that would say,

okay, we're now competitive in electric vehicles because we understand the heart of electric vehicles as a battery.

That's why GM gets my vote at this juncture.

Having said that, the Detroit three, would I put my money on the Detroit three today beating the Chinese?

Tough.

That'd be tough.

So you mentioned EV.

You mentioned it's the future engine driver politically.

Fortunately, fortunes for the EV have changed with the withdrawal of the rebates and a lot of the government support.

Was that a mistake?

Do you believe here in the United States for us to pull back and allow market forces to dictate sales of EVs?

Or did we do the right thing?

All right.

So that's a trick question.

I have a pick up truck and a Tesla in the driveway.

So anybody who's like, I am, I don't care what you should buy whatever car you want.

And I'm not going to sell it for EVs or gas.

Either one up to you.

However, as an American, let's just stand back way back as an American.

If you look at the world and you think about the future, batteries are powering all of the important technologies of the future.

Humanoid robots, drones, many of the components that go into our fighter jets and missiles have our powered by or related to battery technologies.

And today we are covered here in the United States is more or less empty.

The Chinese own the batteries.

You know, our military is dependent on China today for supply of those batteries.

So if for no other reason, we need EVs because they're a big demand source for batteries.

And without the EV demand, we don't have batteries and then we're back to square one.

So in a sort of indirect way, I can see the importance of having EVs as part of our industry.

Not all, but as part of because we need the batteries and battery supply chains to preserve our national independence and our national security.

I know that's an indirect way of getting to it.

But I think it's a very, let's step away from I'm American.

I should be able to buy any car.

I'm like, yes, okay, go ahead.

But as an American patriot, we also have to think about our security and what the future looks like.

And I had never heard that thought before the importance of the criticality of batteries as a component globally should also drive that demand here so that we can continue with defense and all the other things that batteries bring with it.

So privacy and data and access to our infrastructure is one other big claim that supports the idea.

We've had Senator Moreno on here saying he'll never allow Chinese vehicles into the U.S.

Is the data and that was the other objection to tick tock back when you know at the end of the Biden administration outlying tick tock.

Is that overplayed or is that real?

And what is the concern about that a vehicle driving around on the highways?

What does it matter where it's built for privacy data concerns?

It's absolutely real and it does matter.

And as a consumer, you one should be concerned.

One is those autonomous vehicles and the software in them, not just autonomous vehicles, but the software in the cars sold by the Chinese are vacuum cleaners in terms of our data.

So what we listen to where we go, who we talk to on the phone, all that stuff is conceivably recorded and sent back to China for whatever they see fit.

So that's on a privacy.

You're just like opening up your whole life to a different government.

And the second one is those vehicles are increasingly in terms of data, where they go, what they can map out, what they can see.

All of that information could be sent back to China.

And you know, let's look at what just happened in Iran.

You guys saw that the street lights cameras on the street lights were all hacked by the Israelis.

Oh my God, you've got inside information 24 seven about what movements are happening.

Same thing would apply in this case.

You'd have millions of cars as Gina Ramondo said before she left office.

We don't want to have a few million Chinese cars on the road before we realize we have a big problem because you can't reverse it.

So those cars are genuine have the potential to be powerful weapons.

And that's why the US is up until now kept them out.

Now, having said that, every other market in the world today, including Canada now is bringing Chinese cars in.

So we have to figure it out.

I think the solution is if they're going to come in and manufacture here, they have to use US audited and approved software.

And servers stay here and nothing goes back to China.

That would have to be.

You know, so eager K comes into the comments.

He says big mistake by not allowing Chinese vehicles in the US big mistake.

There's no there's so much secondhand market.

US will lose if Chinese cars are not here.

Tax money and repair revenue earnings will miss out on.

I do think it's an interesting thought if we don't compete against them, if we don't find a way to work with them, they may become large enough at some point where they're calling the shots.

They've got the leverage and we can't find that intermediary data protection.

You know, you think about vehicles sold in Canada that come over the border in Mexico that come over the border.

We will see vehicles and data will be an issue.

And I, you know, it's my own personal opinion that the sooner we figure out how to protect our data and how to protect our technology.

We're probably in a better position and then we compete and we allow the free market to win.

Is that an approach or is that short-sighted?

I think I agree with the comment.

It's inevitable that they come in and probably let's face up to the competition sooner rather than later.

But I would just caution one main difference is we kind of people that tend to go, whoa, Japan, they came in and we handled that and Koreans came in and we handled that and the Germans came in.

This is a different magnitude.

This we're competing with the nation of China that is hell-bent on dominating the auto industry as it's already done in solar panels, in shipbuilding, in steel, in drones.

In one industry after another they've targeted it and then they now account for 70, 80% of global production.

Guess what?

The short term, the American customer is happy.

Oh, I got a cheaper product from China.

Longer term, where is this going?

Are we willing to say, you know, Detroit 3, nice knowing you.

You and the jobs go away because you can't compete.

Yeah, you didn't step up.

You're gone.

All right, are we ready to do that?

Let's think carefully.

I think the US customer having lived in Asia for so long, US customer and US culture is a little bit consumer-centric in that because we're American, we deserve the best wherever it comes from.

There's strings attached always.

There's no free lunch.

Guys, let's not forget that.

So what's the whole package?

What are we signing up for?

It's easy to say, oh, we should definitely bring in a better product.

Yeah, okay, but is that the whole picture?

That's the question.

It does strike me as interesting that the Chinese really are employing the Walmart strategy, right?

Which was in a free market, you know, Walmart goes in this big box into the small towns, takes out all the competition on price.

Yep.

And then brings it back to a price level where they can become profitable.

That's it.

And instead of a competing business governed by rules in the US, it's a competing government that is able to have a stake in our country.

That's the bottom line.

Yeah.

That's the one that I don't know that most Americans are aware of yet.

Yeah.

And that's the one I saw firsthand in China.

Or have the will to resist.

When you were there, how did you see that firsthand in China?

Last question for today.

Oh, gosh.

So from the very beginning, just the first thing I got there in 1990, in those days, nothing happened in China.

It was half a million cars a year they built.

Nothing to talk about.

Then the turning point was in 2001 when China joined the WTO.

And up until then, every country that joined the WTO said, oh, you know, our joint venture rule, the thing that we require you to, if you're going to come into China, you have to have a joint venture partner.

And that partner has to have 50% or more.

That would go away.

That's a WTO rule.

That goes away, China.

If you want to come to the WTO, you got to get rid of this JV rule.

And China said, no, we're not getting rid of it.

It's important to us.

And the US government, other governments and automakers caged.

And it was a signal to me, China still controlled the auto industry.

Yeah, they're selling Buick's and Toyota's and Volkswagen's, but in a joint venture that was ultimately controlled by the state.

There's a first indication.

Ah, it's not just, oh, we go into China and selling Buick's.

They're just accumulating the ability to manufacture, have our suppliers move in, bring our investment, our know-how, but ultimately who controls the thing.

Yeah.

Well, I wish I could tell you this was a very entertaining interview, but it was not.

Gently depressing, right?

But full of reality and some good takeaways for us as we think about what the future looks like in a world where the United States is competing with another country, China, in automotive dominance.

Michael Dunn said.

Yeah.

And it's not designed to be alarming or depressing or anything like that.

It's just like, let's the first step toward optimism is go, where are we at?

Yeah.

Oh, okay, we're not there anymore.

We're here.

What do we got to get done?

And now we got to go fight it.

And we've got to.

I love that rally cry by you for the OEMs.

Let's be bold back in the marketplace.

Take risks and get back to what created the dominance in the first place.

What created the dominance?

If Henry Ford were here, would he be saying, well, we got to preserve our margins on that F-150 for a couple more years?

No, he'd be saying, how the hell do we break through on this next day?

Yeah.

Michael Dunn, CEO of Dunn Insights LLC.

Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your perspectives today.

Appreciate being here.

Thank you.

China, it's coming.

And it is interesting.

I mean, if you've seen those vehicles like Michael Spiegel talked about last week, some impressive technology, impressive design.

And it is time, it's time to start considering it and figuring out how to compete and win in the marketplace.

All right, we turn quickly.

Next guest up, Russ Flipps-Wipps.

Welcome to the show.

Owner, RFW Training.

Russ, welcome.

What's going on?

Thanks for having me on.

But no, thank you for having me teed up after that guy.

I know.

People are important, like the global affairs, foreign policy.

And it's like, here's Russ with TikTok.

Talking about it.

You know what's interesting, though, is you've got to, like, I do, Don Hall's been on this show many times.

Hopefully he's listening.

He's the ATAE for the Virginia Auto Dealers Association.

And he talks about, listen, there's two things that are challenging in the market, the Chinese threat and then defending franchise law in the U.S.

And I love that we're having this conversation today because we've got to be open to what's coming and what the challenges are and how we win.

And speaking of Chinese technology and TikTok, Russ, last you and I spoke, we spoke at NADA.

You shared some strategies with us for salespeople to sell more cars.

You've got salespeople that are selling 33 cars a month just from TikTok alone.

So talking about using that Chinese technology to help.

What exactly are they posting?

And Russ, as we go into the conversation, you've learned a leadership lesson about what it takes to sell those 33 cars on TikTok in a month for a salesperson who's being led by a great GM.

Tell us, give us the answers to both those, Russ.

Yeah, I mean, the leadership thing, which I think has become ever so important to me as my young company is growing.

I kind of had this thesis about 18 months ago when Mr. Beyondy, the 70 year old owner of my car dealership was like, hey, Russ, you're selling so many cars from social media.

Like, I think I should do it too.

And I kind of roll my eyes, but I'm like, hey, you know what, let's let's help him do this.

And I was like, hey, if we can get people to know who you are, like at a bigger scale, obviously he's owned the dealership for 65 years.

People know who he is, but like that consistent reminder.

And he has a thousand followers across all platforms and he's pulling in car deals almost as much as I am with, you know, hundreds of thousands of followers.

And I had this thesis that like people want, definitely want access to the decision maker.

And we've seen over the last four or five months as I've gotten a bunch of handraisers from general managers, you know, the conversation usually I've heard from gentlemen,

just like, I want my team to do this.

And we've had great success.

I'll talk about, you know, gentlemen selling 33 cars in one month from from tick tock and, you know, very similar results.

But when GMs do this, it's like super charged.

Why they know what to talk about.

They're probably a GM because they like training and getting better.

And they just have this authoritative approach that allows the consumers who actually do want access to a decision maker to have some type of access to them.

Where, you know, if you're at a store that's probably selling at least over 80 cars a month, there's no way you're touching every customer.

It would just be impossible where they can get to know you like you and trust you and want to do business with you.

So I think, you know, I'm really bullish on, you know, the next couple of years GMs, dealer principals, GSMs branding themselves.

And I think it will be a massive, massive impact to the bottom line because it improves other areas such as recruitment, employee engagement.

Obviously you're selling cars.

You're going to get vendors that are going to want to do business with you.

I mean, I've seen it happen.

You know, hey, we'll give you this thing for free.

You know, just shout us out.

You know, we want to be able to say that you use it because you have a following and people, you know, know who you are.

So I've seen that happen at the shout out individuals or vendors.

So why don't more GMs do that today in March of 2026?

What's the obstacle to GMs creating social media content, reaching out to customers using video and or posting?

Yeah, I mean, there's a few reasons I look at it like one, they probably don't think they're entertaining enough and everyone thinks you need to be entertaining.

And you absolutely do not.

I mean, you can just be informational and educational and be yourself.

A lot of these GMs have grown a following over the years.

It's just not on social media.

Why? Because people just like you for who you are and the way you do business and you can transcend that to social media.

Another one is it just they think it's past them.

You know, if you're 55, 60, you know, even those guys in their late 40s, like, ah, that's so far behind me.

I don't know.

Yeah, but you can learn these skills and we have students that are 52 doing their own social media presence.

I mean, you know, some gentlemen that are up there in age, quote unquote, that are, you know, making a social media presence.

51 is not that old.

I'm told by other people.

I don't know who says that, but that's not that old.

They can still learn it.

I've learned it.

In TikTok terms, you're an older man when you think of it like that.

But I think another reason someone just wouldn't do it is they just don't actually see the benefit of doing it.

Yeah.

So how many followers do you need to make it work before you start?

Because you've talked in times past.

You're like, hey, you know, you can post a bunch of videos.

You're only going to have a few hundred followers, a few hundred views.

Where do you really start to gain momentum when it comes to selling vehicles online using social media as a tool to personally brand and market yourself for us?

What is anyone listening?

What is amazing about social media right now is followers don't even matter because people are being served up relevant information

to their current likes and interests.

Scott Farr, COO or COO at P4 Automotive, made his first video and sold two cars from it.

Yeah, first ever time.

And I don't ever would say that that's a likely outcome.

But we also have Peter Pazimno at Paragon Holiday, used car manager who in his first two months sold 40 cars.

This week or last week sold one car every day from social media.

He has 1100 followers and didn't do videos before November 19.

Because why?

People are being served up relevant information to their current likes and interests.

Just look at your algorithm.

It's not random stuff.

It's perfectly curated to what you're currently interested in.

So if somebody's currently interested in the product you're selling, they're going to see your content.

And the more relevant it is, you know, somebody who was just Googling, you know, I challenge everybody listening, just Google Mercedes Benz GLS 350 lease deal

and watch Benz and bow ties pop up everywhere.

Why?

Because he's making the content.

And as a surprise, he's getting so many leaks from social media.

No, people Google these things, TikTok them, Instagram them, whatever.

And he pops up and they're like, oh, this guy has followers.

He has a backlog of content.

I'm just going to reach out to him.

Yeah.

Vin Siers comes in the comments as Russ legend.

In your case as salesman who use social media, get on average at least two to three more sales a month.

It's proven.

And then Dan C. Uncle Sam.

Yes.

My age.

I'm online.

So, um, so, uh, so you just need to create content that connects.

One thing I don't get.

So I've got an Instagram page and I'll post a little aside clips and kind of behind the scene clips from this show on my Instagram.

I'm getting a ton of like bots.

Like I raised, I increased like 2,300 viewers just in a week period and it was all kind of bot traffic.

I haven't been able to figure that out.

So.

Yeah.

I had the bots on me at one point in time.

It was like two years ago.

Like everything.

They just go away.

I don't know where they come from.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think it's, I think it's a little, a little bit strange.

All right.

So you can, you can sell more cars by getting online.

One of the things that I think about in a large auto group and I think other GMs and dealers think about is, is the risk of someone representing you poorly worth, uh, worth the reward of the vehicle sold as sales people personally brand.

So Russ, as we wrap up today, just, just a minute, I know we're going to do a round table.

Talk to us about what are the, what are the pitfalls and how do you train salespeople to not say something that's going to create a problem for you for the dealership for them and for your customers online?

How do you prevent the other side?

I mean, those people you're worried about, uh, just keep in mind, they do work for you.

So I don't know why you're employing people who are customer facing that you don't trust.

That's a deeper problem.

And obviously I don't have the answer to that.

You know, you obviously run a big organization.

So I mean, sometimes you just, I don't have that problem.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got to hire some warm bodies.

I get that, but absolutely.

And the reason we've seen people make mistakes and go off the rails is they don't have guidance and guidance comes from the top.

This is a top down effect.

So it is extremely important that general managers are bought in so they can monitor what that's going on within their store and having the proper training and guidance on what not to post.

Make content for consumers, not other car salespeople, and you'll probably be all right.

Yeah, yeah.

So don't make content for other people in automotive.

I think some people try to get, try to like attach themselves to a trend that's shocking on TikTok.

They are appealing to other car people and that gets them into trouble.

So that's what you've got to, that's what you've got to stay away from.

All right.

How do people get a hold of you if they want to learn more?

And then I apologize to everybody.

We're going to run out of time for our round table.

So how do we find out more about you, Russ?

Russ flips on social media, rfwtrading.com.

Reach out to us if this is something you want to do.

We'll definitely make sure you get taken care of.

All right.

And what's the first step if I'm a salesperson looking to create video, looking to post online, what's the first step I can take March of 2026 to connect with customers?

Literally make the simplest video.

It's going to suck.

And this is the go-to video that I've given hundreds of salespeople.

Just say this hook.

I could have worked at any dealership.

And here's exactly why I chose to work at Ziegler Honda.

You can say whatever you want and just explain your story.

And if you can't do that on video, like how do you sound with a customer for two hours?

So getting the words out and recording yourself, making that first video is so important because I can't help people who just won't do it.

All right.

Russ flips whips.

Good luck in your effort to get everybody online and automotive, including those general managers.

Russ flips whips, RFW training.

Thanks for being on Daily Dealer Live today, sharing your perspectives.

Thanks for having me.

All right.

And to our audience, I apologize to St. Patrick's Day.

We don't have enough time for our wrap up round table.

We'll make sure we get that in on Wednesday.

A couple of comments online.

Ron David said, I used Mark a place in Facebook ads and I sell about seven to nine a month from the traffic.

Dan C says, curious, do you have any thoughts on auto brokers and or car buying services like Car Edge and delivered driving additional revenue?

We'll hit that next episode.

Vin Sierge comes in who I know, props to Vin.

Highly recommend RFW training.

All right.

Thank you everybody for watching Daily Dealer Live.

We break down the biggest moves in the car business as they happen as we wrap up today.

Don't forget we're here live every Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Hope everybody enjoys St. Patrick's Day tomorrow.

Wear some green.

Laura will be back Wednesday, 1 p.m. Eastern.

So if this is your world, hit like, hit subscribe, turn on those notifications.

You never, ever miss a beat.

We'll see you next episode.

Thanks for being here, everybody.

Layton on Appraisals, Dunne on China, RussFlipsWhips on Social | Daily Dealer Live

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