Let them Fight/The Parade

Good evening, Bill.

Good evening, Stanley. Hello, listeners. Welcome back.

It's another episode of the BS Car Guys podcast.

It is right up here next to Thanksgiving.

So we will be enjoying Thanksgiving next week along with all of you guys, listeners.

Hopefully you guys have a nice relaxing plan for Thanksgiving.

It's not too stressful with cooking turkeys and whatnot.

Spoken like a man who is not cooking most of the food.

100% not cooking most of the food. I will probably assist with something.

Most of my cooking will be done this weekend probably for breakfast for a group of girls who are having a sleepover for Anna's birthday party.

Speaking of stressful, that 100% is stressful.

You know what? I don't know if I ever asked you this.

What's top Thanksgiving foods for you?

Oh, for me. Well, all right. So the one thing I look forward to.

Also, I'm going to let you know right now and I apologize for cutting you off.

There could be a friendship damaging answer in this. I'm just letting you know now.

For our astute listeners who possibly have listened to every episode.

I can't imagine that's a single listener or for those of you who do listen,

who somehow know us outside of work.

You may already know a little bit of our personal preferences and likes and dislikes.

So you probably already know that I am an extremely picky eater.

I said extremely. Extremely was an accurate word.

Correct.

There is a food that my wife makes for me every year for Thanksgiving and generally

does not make it any other time throughout the year.

And it is a cinnamon bread. We call it monkey bread. It's like a pull-apart bread.

In the south.

If you're a frequenter of Starbucks, they now have little muffins of these.

They're okay. My wife's is fantastic and she makes an entire

bundt cake sized loaf of this stuff, but only at Thanksgiving.

And so I look forward to that more than anything at Thanksgiving because I do eat turkey regularly

throughout the year. And so that doesn't quite have the same meaning as my monkey bread.

So for me, Thanksgiving, I'm excited about monkey bread.

Awesome. Because I was going to ask you, if you would have said pumpkin pie,

would it have been friendship damaging?

No. I'm not a big pumpkin pie fan. In fact, to me, they're both very similar,

but I actually would rather have sweet potato pie.

See, this is why we are friends. We can end the podcast now before we say.

And I don't really love either one of them, but there's something about the texture

that I prefer a sweet potato pie over a pumpkin pie.

Partially because you're Southern. That might be yet also.

I, you know how sometimes a thing looks so much like a thing that you can confuse it in your mind.

And if somebody didn't tell you that this was different.

Yes. So this happened to me with my first experience with pumpkin pie. I had my mouth

of my taste buds already for some sweet potato pie. And I picked up a piece of pumpkin pie by

mistake. Yes. Shall never happen again. Do you find that to be worse than like, have you ever

picked up a glass of, um, ice water and taken a big giant sip of it only to find out it was like

seven up. Yeah. Sprite. Yeah. Oh man. You just reminded me. So, uh, everybody knows that, uh,

Bill and I are Marines and, um, I had this Marine, his name is Zach. So Zach, if you're

listening to somebody to tell you a quick version of your story. What's up, Zach?

Zach is from Ohio. Uh, good guy. Do you ever once in a while go Zach attack? Because I like you

should. His last name is painter and we had a whole bunch of other names that is not podcast

friendly for him. Zach painter. Okay. Uh, we're just throwing his full name out there. You got

a social you want to throw out there too or credit card number? Sorry, Zach. Uh, I mean,

seeing how I helped him get to his job, I guess, he, he, he, he, he owes me some money somewhere.

But, uh, so he had one of those incidents when he was, uh, when he was young. So he running

around outside as kids do, uh, come back in the house and thought some sweet, um,

thought some sweet tea was in the cup. And, you know, as a kid, he just saw this cup there.

He thought, uh, thought it was sweet tea, grabbed it, chugged it. It was, um, tobacco spit.

So I have also done that. Um, shout out to Tom Luffelman. Uh, I have, I have picked up a can

of Dr Pepper that I thought was my can of Dr Pepper, uh, in rack shop and took a big swig only to

find out that it was the before mentioned dip spit. Yep. It was dip spit or a cigarette

buzz in a thing or something like that. Ooh, I feel like that would be worse.

So he got this stuff down before he got some of this stuff down before he realized what it was.

Up until the last time I saw him, if he saw sweet, uh, sweet tea, he, he was starting to get it.

He just, I mean, okay. I don't know how we're going down this path, but

I have to share this one as well, because this one, I think as bad as, as bad as the dip spit

situation is, and that's bad. Believe me, as somebody who's experienced it firsthand, it's bad.

Speaking of, uh, hi Tom, what's up? Yeah, what's up Tom? Um,

we were, this happened when we were in the Marine Corps. I was out in town, um, with

Mr. Chris Dern, Big Dern, and, uh, and probably Russ was probably with us too. It was probably the

three of us. And we, yeah, yeah. So we, we cruise through, uh, so there's at least two people that

don't, can co, collaborate this story. Uh, we cruise through the checkers. You remember the

checkers like drive-throughs on both sides, which is always weird. So we cruise through the checkers

and we get us some cheeseburgers and some fries and some big old sweet teas. And you know, they

had big cups like back in the nineties, not everybody had those big giant cups, you know,

that everybody's got now, like a, like a hearties medium, you know, and, um, and so we all get us

some big large sweet teas and we're cruising over to the mall and Chris is just, you know, eating,

drinking his sweet tea and everyone's while he's like, man, my sweet tea just tastes weird. Does

your guys' sweet tea taste weird? I'm like, nah, I mean, maybe it's not sweet enough, but I mean,

it's fine. He's like, man, mine just tastes really weird. So we get to the mall and, uh,

he's like, I just, you know, because by now he's drank like half of it. He's like, I just can't

finish this. It tastes terrible. So we're getting out of the truck and he pulls the lid off to pour

it out. And when he pours it out, we're all looking for whatever reason. When he pours it out from

the bottom of the cup, there is a nicotine patch off of somebody's arm. Oh, I think I heard this

before. He got so sick from drinking that sweet tea. I mean, he was like, you know, vomit in the

parking lot and say, I don't know why we're telling these stories. I don't know how we wouldn't have

a Thanksgiving thing. But anyway, that was, that was probably the worst one that I can think of.

Anyway, so I don't know if he can drink sweet tea now. I'm pretty sure he got over it, but

that was pretty rough. Yeah. Speaking of back in the nineties, right? It was back to some car stuff.

So back in the nineties, you know, we, we, we came into adulthood and in the Marine Corps,

our first stint with any kind of money whatsoever in this whole sport car and back car age, right?

I mean, civics and civics and centras and all, all, all, if they, if you can tune it, if you can make

it kind of look good, look cool, modified anyway, you get it. I mean, there were always the Mustang

Camaro crowd. We really couldn't afford to hang out with them dudes, but actually, I don't know if

we could afford to hang out with new civic dudes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. If you could afford

a brand new civic, we probably couldn't hang out with you. Yeah. But I mean, so I mean, sport

compact cars were all the rage. I mean, we had all the magazines, the Nopi magazines and all that

stuff, right? But, but there were always a couple cars that were, that we, at least I can consider,

I'm pretty sure you did as well, were top crust, upper crust. And one, one car that we talked about

a lot was, was owned by a friend of ours. It was a Honda Prelude. Oh, yes. And if those of you

don't know, the Honda Prelude was at, at the time, if my memory serves me correctly, it had the,

the big block VTech in it, you know, the big block VTech. I mean, that is an accurate statement

and a hilarious statement at the same time. Yeah. But by then, by then, I mean, the Prelude had

morphed into not necessarily the exact same car it was when it first came out, but it was still

cool. It was, it was the car that you, you got, if you, you, you manage money well, I had some money

coming in. So Nicos is a, none of us had one? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, I had one

when I went back to Japan, but by the car, used car in Japan is a completely different endeavor

than it is in the United States of America. But we did have a friend named Humphreys. Yes.

And he had one, and he had one, and we admired it for sure. And it was the,

and it was the only color that is acceptable for a Prelude other than white. And that's purple.

Yep. Purple. And speaking of the other opposite, the other part about that is when you're in Japan,

the only color Prelude that you hardly ever see are white. Yes. And look, I'm going to tell you

the honest to goodness truth about Humphreys purple Prelude and purple Prelude just rolls off the

tongue, right? So Humphreys had been in the Marine Corps, you know, as things go, when you're in,

people are either senior to you or they're junior to you. So he had been in the Marine Corps,

I'm sure all of five minutes longer than me, but it felt like, because he was already there before

me, he had been there for 50 years. And so he knew everything. Yep. So I immediately looked up

to him like this dude has got a purple Prelude and it is awesome, even though it was basically

bone stock. Yep. And, and a couple times I got to ride to work with him in it. And I was like,

man, I wish this was my car. I just, I wanted that car so bad. Was it the fastest car in the world?

No. No. Was it the best looking car in the world? No. No. But was it, was it the Honda

that not many people had and it made it desirable? Yes. Absolutely. My first experience with a Prelude

would absolutely involve the girl that I met on the Boulevard and Myrtle Beach. And I don't even

know if that was her car, but she had a black one. And the highlight of that car is that I think

that was the first car I saw a CD player in. Man, a CD player. For those of us that are young,

for those of our listeners that are younger, a CD player in a car was like a really small record

that went into a slot in the dash. And that, that's to say, it's like a really flat Frisbee.

Yep. And that's how we listen to music. And you, and you, when you went or a really small,

flat dinner plate with a hole in the middle, I don't, how would you describe a CD to a kid that's

never even seen a CD? Oh, ooh. I would probably use some anime thing because they understand

anime. Is there a CD in K-pop Demon Hunters? Yeah, I'm sure it is. No, actually K-pop Demon

Hunters is new. So probably not. Hey, it was like the disc that Krillin threw in Dragon Ball Z. There

you go. They watched Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Z's from 30 years ago. So I'll bring up the Prelude

because I highlight the point that the Prelude was always more expensive than the Civic. It was,

it was the car you, you either reached for or you already had money to get. That's right. That's

right. And so Honda's bringing back the Prelude, right? And I am on the fence about it. And I did

not expect, the car is a lot of what I expected it to be because it was always, it was, I mean,

Honda's are amalgamations of each other. I mean, they use a lot of sample. Honda's in Toyota.

That's one of the reasons how they get so reliable. They reuse the same, they're perfected thing and

just keep using it. But so the price came out for the Prelude. The base price for the Prelude is $42,000

even. And then it goes up to $42,500. But that is, those are essentially the only prices.

What they did is, and at first, when I first heard those numbers, I was like, that's,

that's more than the Integra. That's more than all the, all the Civics and all the Integra's

unless you get to the Super Racing ones. But then I looked at it.

It's interesting that it's more.

I mean, it's more than half that. It costs more than most of the Accords.

Yeah. I mean, that's, is that a higher starting price than the Civic Type R?

No, the Civic Type R is roughly, actually, no, no, no. Yes, yes it is. No, no, it's not because

the Civic Type R is 45, 46 ish. And the, the Accura Type S is 56. Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

All right. So I was kind of obsessed like, man, this car seems like it costs a lot.

And then I looked at it and then I remember what a Prelude was.

Prelude was always kind of more, was more expensive than the Civics and everything,

even though it probably had a lot more parts that related to the Civic than we realized at the time.

There are no options on this car. No, I'm actually building one out right now. There are no options.

I built one out earlier. The option is get a black roof and carbon fiber colored mirrors for $500.

Yeah. And I'm going to be honest with you, even the, I mean, the Hybrid 2-tone, which I guess is

like the special, it's only available in white. Yep. And the other one is only available in

not purple. Yep. Not purple. So that's, that's the first thing that's bad. It's not available in

purple. But yeah. So do you think that's too much? That's my ultimate point. I do, I do think it's

too much because this car is going to have to compete even though it shouldn't. It's going to

the Gorolla and the Golf R or, I mean, it may be the GTI, but it's a Hybrid. So it's really,

it's probably its closest competitor. I hate to say it because it really tarnishes the legacy

of the Prelude. Its closest competitor is probably the Prius. Actually, I can see how

you got there. I think I personally think its closest competitor is the Civic Sport Hybrid,

which costs, I think. Is that a competitor if it's the same company? It's just, I mean,

we know we, we go to, we, we have been around the car industry enough or observed it long enough

that we know that they, our car dealership will compete itself out of itself. They'll be selling

two different things at the same time that directly compete with each other because why?

Yeah, you're right. You're not wrong. I mean, in all reality, it's three different versions of that

car. It's the Civic, the Integra and the Prelude now and all of them are, and all of them can be

almost $40,000. Well, all of them can be $40,000 and is at that point, they use essentially all

the same, well, you can't get a hybrid Integra yet. So they use all the same parts. One thing,

one cool thing that I think they did do with this car because it's not going to be fast,

it's not going to be super fast, is they use the suspension from the Type R and the brakes from the

Type R in this car. Okay. So maybe that will give it a little bit of a handling edge over a comparably

priced Civic or Integra. But then again, at the same time, the other thing you just made me think

about this is, isn't Prelude one necessarily halo cars, but they were kind of halo cars?

You just didn't see them all the time. Right. So that could be a part of it. And then at the same

time, I was watching a comment creator and he did the cost comparison. He did how much a Prelude

cost when it was last on sale or how much would that be in today's dollars? It was spot on, bro.

Oh, really? It was spot on. I was like, did that car really cost that much more than the Civic?

Interesting. Because Civics have gotten way more expensive. But even in comparison, even if you

do the inflation calculated the other way around, I mean, Civics used to be the cheap one. But yeah,

but now they, anyway, I mean, I was looking at Civic SI and Civic SI and they want every bit

of $35,000 for the thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess it competes maybe a little closer

with the SI than I want to admit. But again, I feel like I feel like it's closest competitor

as the Prius. I would say that actually when I was watching Everyday Driver, Everyday Driver

some other creators that I watched, they did this video series, they got a Prius from Toyota

and they put good tires on it and all this stuff and then they went and tracked it.

Yeah. And they realized that the car actually handled way better because I mean, these dudes,

one of them is driving a Lotus and the other one has a Porsche Cayenne and I mean,

these dudes and they drive, drive. And so they were absolutely poking fun at this car and then

they realized how much they liked it after these. I think all they ended up doing was putting tires

on it. Well, and I'm just, I'm going to tell you, I mean, it's the Prius is all-wheel drive, right?

I can, you, I just built out a Prius Limited all-wheel drive. It's all-wheel drive. I just

built out a Prius Limited all-wheel drive, top of the line, optioned out the options I would buy

on a car and it's $39,150. So there's $2,500 bucks in it between these two cars. I'm telling you,

they're a lot closer. I thought that car was front-wheel drive. And to your point,

it's sportier than people realize because the Prius has a bit of a reputation. Yeah.

But you put these things side-by-side and they kind of occupy the same space,

even though the Prius is four-door. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I mean,

even, even when we go back to, back in the 90s, the Prius, the Prelude was the car that was rarely

seen. But if you wanted to get the fast one, you didn't go with the Prelude. You went in Tabra.

That's right. And maybe it is more of a GT car than maybe it was meant to be more of a GT car,

especially like in the one that Huffins had, more of a GT car than a sport, a sporty car. Sure.

But I mean, even now, think about it, like we hold the Supra on this, you know,

we put the Supra on the Mount Restmore cars, but the Supra would stop being a sports car,

even when, you know, because it was always really, technically, it was always a GT car.

Yeah. I mean, it was, it was fast. You could make it, you could make a whole lot faster,

but it was a GT car the whole time that we just did. I mean,

the Corvette has been more GT car to sports car. And even, I would say, even in 9-11,

it's probably more GT car to sports car, even though those cars, I feel like they are both

things, they're all at the same time. Well, I actually tend to agree with you. I had this

conversation today with a customer, we started talking cars. And actually, I think that the 9-11

is more of a GT car, because the Cayman Boxster, you know, the 718 model really occupies the

more of the sports car space for Porsche. So I actually tend to agree with you. And, you know,

the only car that's went the other way is Corvette. Corvette went from a GT car to a sports car.

I agree. I agree. I think it's more sports car now than GT car, because one is trying to keep

up with 9-11. And again, like we spoke about in the last podcast, we think something is missing

out of the recipe, even though we acknowledge that it wasn't a whole lot else you can do.

No. I mean, as an evolutionary tactic, it needed to happen. But I just don't agree with it. I think

it should be a different car. It should be a different model. Yeah. I mean, and they could have

sold both of those cars beside each other. And even though the customers could cross shop,

I don't think it's the same customer. No. I agree. We joke all the time about, you know,

most of the people who drive in Corvettes are 50, 60 years old. Do we say 50, 60? Because I feel like

we say 70, 80. Okay, 70, 80. You can say 70, 80. And to be honest, I mean, they would buy a new one

now, but they were way more comfortable than I was. It was way more livable. And so, yeah, I was

thinking, I was wondering, I was like, is that, are we, I mean, that it is still underneath the

average price of a car in America today, which is still at like $49,700, which is ridiculously high.

All right. So think about it. Think about it like this. I want to present something to you,

because you brought up this prelude thing referencing our experience as 20-somethings

at the end of the last millennium, right? So the cars that we wanted back then, the Civic,

the Prelude, you know, those cars, but we really couldn't afford them and they were just,

knew they were out of our reach just, okay? Now, let me take you back to 1963. If you were,

if you were 19, 20 years old in 1963, you couldn't afford, most people, couldn't afford

a brand new Corvette. Right, right. The guys buying Corvettes were, you know, officers and guys coming

back from space and stuff and, you know, and they were probably in their 30s. You know, it was,

it was a different age and a different financial demographic. So those kids who were in their

20s and really wanted a Corvette but couldn't afford them, those are the guys that are now

in their 70s and are octogenarians and now they can afford, now they can afford a Corvette

and Corvette is building a car marketed towards those guys. So they finally have called up,

their income has finally called up to their 20 year old car desires, okay?

We are at an age where if we really wanted to or our spouses weren't looking long enough,

we could go buy the car that we, that we mostly want. Yep. We certainly could go buy the Civic

or Prelude that we want. Right. Is this the Prelude you want? No. Okay, that's, see,

and I was, I was worried you would try to defend it, but I agree that it's not,

Honda doesn't see that, right? And I think that's the miss here where I become on the fence about it.

I get having another hybrid vehicle offering even though I don't love hybrids. I get it and

having something that appeals to a young person and looks a little sporty. I mean, look,

the world is sorely lacking in two-door sports coupes. Absolutely. But at $42,000,

20 year olds can't buy this either. Absolutely. No. Well, so 20 year olds can't buy it without

parental support. Yes, that's right. And so 20 year olds can't buy it even though they might want it.

And 50 year olds, 40 to 50 year olds who wanted a Prelude back in the day but didn't get one

can now afford it, but they don't want that one. Yeah. So it kind of falls into a dead limbo zone

of like, who's going to buy this? And you know who I think is going to buy it? Oh, 32 year old

professional dog groomers. That's who I think is going to buy it. You look at that car and tell me

you don't see a dog groomer in her 30s that's got her own business who wants something fun and

sporty. That's her car. So they've built a car for one person. All right. So I must sound a little

sexist when I say this. Her name's Tanya. I'm going to sound more sexist than you, which is a rare

thing when I say this. I'm thinking about this back. I'm thinking about this. The people who own

Prelude's the most that I can remember were girls back in the day.

Yeah. Because the dudes, they wanted the integral type. I mean, you might be right. You might be

right, but I don't think the percentage, I don't think the ratio of Prelude owner's male female

was as high as the ratio of Civic Dell Soul owner's male female. Yeah, Dell Souls. That was 99%

women. And even when the successor to the Integra and I would say Prelude, not that I'm thinking

about it because it was a softer car, the RSX. It wasn't for like a better way of saying it. It

wasn't a dude car. You know what I mean? Let me just tell you that there was a girl that I went to

high school with and I don't know if I graduated with her. Her name's escaping me at the moment.

But when I came back to Ashborough after the Marine Corps and got married and was cruising

around in the Jetta, she probably liked you a whole lot more now.

This was not a girl. I mean, this was just a girl that I knew. You know, we didn't really

travel in the exact same social circles, but we both knew each other were car people.

She had an RSX. I think she worked at a bank or something, but it was kind of that gun metal

color. It was like that kind of Metallica gray color. And she had bronze, I want to say they were

bronze TEs. And she was the first person I had seen do bronze wheels on a tuner car. And yeah,

and I'm going to tell you, I really admired that car. Every time I saw her in town, which was often,

I had major car envy of her car. And it was about the only RSX I knew running around locally.

Now you said that about the gray with bronze. I was getting gassed the other week and I

pulled up in the gas station and this guy, I don't know, he got out of a Lexus ES, right?

So not a car, a tuner car now like that, but he had some like 20 inch, it was gray and he

had some like 20 inch bronze wheels on it. And it was sharp, bro. Sometimes color combinations

like that, that you typically wouldn't go for, because you know, back in the especially back

then it was either it was chrome, you know, that was awesome. But color wheels, speaking of that.

So when I got first got to Japan, I had a white probably 1988 Civic, right? With the pandas?

With dark like midnight blue wheels on it. Oh, wow. Yeah, I didn't do it myself. I bought the car

that way. But that's the first place I saw with colored wheels in Japan was in Japan.

Actually, Japan was the first place I saw with like 20s and bigger wheels on big sedans and stuff

like that. So when I got back to the States, that's when everybody was getting bigger and bigger wheels.

It was that was kind of old to me because I saw it in Japan five years before that.

But yeah. And for our avid listeners, we made it an almost an hour into tonight's episode

before Stanley mentioned having lived in Japan. Oh, no, it was it was it was almost 30 minutes.

I was looking at the clock when we started because we talked about we talked an hour before we

usually talk for 30 minutes before we start recording. We talked like an whole hour before

we started recording. Well, yes, Anna did come spend some time talking to us. So we, you know,

it got drugged out a little bit. Speaking of Anna, so one day Anna is going to grow up

even more than she already is. She's growing too fast now. Yes. So we're talking about Carson in

90s. I got a friend right now. He has a 16 year old son and he's going to the first car

first car for him thing. And he wants so with with a level of vigor that I don't know if I can

explain right now where he's trying to live vicariously through his 16 year old son and he

wants him to want the cars that he would want if he was a 16 year old. Interesting. And

60 years don't want the things that 40 years. No, most of the time they don't and and honestly,

you know, they probably mean there may be an occasional 16 year old out there who's taste

overlap with a 40 year old, but it is rare and it is very rare inside your own family dynamic

for like father, son, daughter, mother to both have the same car wants. It just it is very rare.

Like he is he has morphed himself. He's from Michigan. He has morphed himself recently into a

like person. So he likes nice things after driving these times and and things for long

times and the old Dodger rain goes on things like I want I want heated seats. I want cushy seats.

I want I want nice things. And it's like, man, my son, he can get this Cadillac right here.

And so when he mess up, then I can drive it. And I was like that. I was like that ain't going to

work as like, I mean, he might want to ATS, but I doubt it. I doubt it. But yeah, this is weird.

I mean, at some point, Anna's going to get there. Are you at some point she is right now. There is

there is this weird overlap. So right now, her and her mother both think that her first car that

somehow those two are overlapping right now. I don't I'm not saying I disagree with it. It's

just wouldn't be my first choice. This sounds dangerous. Yeah. Yeah, it's not my first choice,

but they both want her first car to be a Fox body Mustang. Anna wants it to be pink.

I think that that will hopefully change. But but Kendra and Anna both think a Fox body would be

an ideal choice for her. Now, by the time she gets her license, that will be a I don't even know.

What would that be a almost 50 year old car? So probably not going to happen, right? Yeah,

that would be I mean, Fox bodies came out mid 80s. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't see that happening,

but maybe it will. Her number two choice, ironically enough, overlaps with what I would have

for her and what I would probably have for myself as well, which is like a 96 or 97 OBS white

four to seven three diesel regular cab long bed four wheel drive. Well, first of all, she's going

to need the truck over the Fox body so she can tow her horses and cows. Yes. Yes. But again,

by the time she gets her license, that is a 50 year old vehicle or a 40 year old vehicle.

So I just don't see that being realistic as as much as I'm like, you know, I can get behind

either one of those and support it, you know, but I just to me, the odds seem unlikely.

I mean, I mean, I'm on my fourth kid that I've gone through the first car buying process with and

none of them picked the car that I thought they would pick. My daughter, she got recently got

faith recently got her first car and she went through every car that I showed her all the things

that her friends showed her drove maybe, I don't know, about 10 different cars, which is a must

when you buy your shop before car, you should drive it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Before you before

you put money down. And she got into this into her car. And within within three minutes, I knew

we was going to buy it was definitely the car she was going to pick wasn't on her radar at all.

Didn't know what it was. It just fit well below her budget. And I was like, hey, let's go drive

this thing on a random thing. I was like, oh, sure, she's not going to like this. And she bought a

2019 Chevy Sonic RS. Yeah, she loves that car. I have no I drove it. It is kind of spunky, but

spunky, but I look, man, I was ready to go get her a Corolla or Civic or something like that.

And she and she liked she liked Nissan Centra for a second and Volkswagen Jetta's and all these

other things. And this she wanted to SUV and we ended up with a Chevy Sonic RS. I don't you know,

yeah, right. I mean, it just sometimes it just happens, right? It's her money. And one thing I

will encourage all you people out there who are about to go through this or going through this with

a kid. I would encourage you to let them pick it because they're going to be paying for it.

If if you raise your right, they should be going to be paying for at least some of it.

And if they pick it and they pay for it, they need to like it. So I agree completely.

And speaking of liking things, one of the things that you like a lot is going off road and going

to I hang going out in the mountains or trails and you when you go over overlanding, not glamping,

you're not a glamour. Well, it depends on who's with me. But yeah, I said you I didn't say your

family. I said you are not a glamour. Yes, that's that is accurate. And there's a battle that's

that's on the verge of happening here in next year. No, no, no, no, no, no. We we are in the South.

I am from North Carolina and you were from the South Carolina. What you meant to say was there

is a battle that is fitting to be all over the news. You should have said you should have said

fitting to be and you said about to be. See, I work with only person I work with. Actually,

I don't work with anyone from the south. Texas ain't the south. It's different. Agreed.

Oh, and Oklahoma ain't southern either, even though they try to convince me all the time.

It's country country and southern overlap. It ain't the same thing.

You know what? That's an excellent observation. Yeah. So yeah, so there's fixing to be a battle.

I ain't fitting to be. No, that's North Carolina. I said fixing I fit fixing to be.

Uh huh. Yeah. Like I don't drink all the Kool-Aid too. I don't drink all the Kool-Aid.

Well, you know what? It's drink, drunk, whatever. We both know if it's Kool-Aid, what flavor is it?

Red. Purple. See, see, you I knew he was going to say purple. I was a red dude. I'm purple dude.

Are we on the same team? I think we're still on the same team. Same team.

Because you can mix flavors and oh yeah, you can do it. Yeah. Plus, plus we just named a color

as a flavor. You didn't say cherry. I didn't say great. You said red. I said purple. That's how

you know we both grew up or because we drank the color as a flavor. We didn't drink the flavor.

And all you people who think flavor aid is as good as Kool-Aid. I politely advise you to just

turn off the podcast now. Yes, clearly the only option. If you're sitting there in your house of

flavor aid packets, you know. I mean, we were poor, but I ain't that poor. I ain't. Exactly.

Exactly. My grandma would scrape up the extra nickel for Kool-Aid.

My grandma was the cup circle lady. And the reason why she was the top cup circle lady is

because she used Kool-Aid with an abundant amount of sugar and other people were trying to go cheap

on it, use flavor. You know what? We started out this podcast talking about accidentally drinking

stuff that you had a better expectations for. I know it happened to you that you went to some

friends' house as a kid and their mama had a big picture of Kool-Aid and you poured a glass of it

and took a sip and immediately went, no, that's flavor aid. That ain't Kool-Aid. Your mama's smoking

crack. Absolutely. Just like what was it? Brighton Sunny and Tank ain't orange juice.

It's not the same thing. Sunny D. Not Brighton. Sunny D, too. Would Flea Market brand orange juice

are you drinking? Look, look, bro. Hey, we was often, we was out there with, we was out there in the

country. Sunny D was, uh, for, uh, was, was upper crust. You're gonna keep coming and get some Brighton

Sunny. Brighton Sunny was like the bargain brand that goes, Sunny D, dude. It came in a red

carton. Oh, your orange juice came in a red carton. I mean, just think about that for a minute.

That's what should have told you everything. Exactly. And it was delicious. Or, or it was

what we had and I got used to it, either. Now, let me tell you, when, when we were in Thailand,

what, two years ago, they had Tang steel and we had Tang at breakfast every morning. Yeah. And

I missed Tang. That's some good stuff. It ain't orange juice, but it's good stuff. Yeah. I don't

know what fruit they put in that juice, but it wasn't just orange for sure. And, and listen,

if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, what in the world is Tang?

Stop what you're doing or put in your earbuds so you can be mobile and go, go find some Tang.

Yep. Life changing. Life changing. You're, you're missing out. Yeah. And have you taken Tang

overlanding? No, I have not taken Tang overlanding, but we should talk about this

thing that is coming this way. That's fitting to be all up in our news cycle.

Absolutely. So recently, it is the LA Auto Showtime. And like either last week or the week

before, it was the Tokyo Mobility Showtime. And we, a couple of these things are already on the

horizon we knew about, but there was an introduction of one, a Jeep Recon at the LA Auto Show,

and which is supposed to be going production in the beginning of next year. You can already

kind of build it, I think, on the Jeep website. And we have the Rivian R2 that is coming

and the Scout Traveler coming 27, right? I believe that is great, yes.

27. So all three of these things are supposed to be on sale within 15 to 18 months. And they

have a lot of similarities and some differences. All three of them can be EV only. The Traveler,

it can be eREV, which is an EV with a gas battery, for lack of better ways of describing it.

A gas battery, a gas generator, and its own onboard power generation.

And how is that different from a gas battery?

I don't know. Gas battery sounds like some bright and sunny.

It sounds country or something.

Yeah, it sounds real country. That thing got a motor in it, and that motor is the battery.

Absolutely. There's rumour that the Recon is going to go eREV as well,

but the Rivian is going to still be all EV now.

That Recon is not bad looking.

Like you would say, I wouldn't kick it out of bed.

I expected it to be uglier than that for sure.

Well, you know, it was one that we had talked about, gosh, I don't even know what a year ago,

two years ago. I mean, we talked about this car a while back, and to be honest with you,

I had just kind of let go of it because we hadn't seen any updated images.

We hadn't got any new information on it, and it was one I think that we had on our coming in

2025 list, and now here we are at the end of 25, and it's still not here yet.

So, you know, I had kind of let go of this thing, and now it's come back out,

swinging, I guess, would be the thing. Now, I think this is another reason why I thought

that it was smaller than the Scout, because the Scout with the Harvester package,

which the Harvester package is that gas battery, as you just described,

your range is like 500 miles. This Jeep is the range is only like 230 miles,

so it's a much slower kilowatt hour battery pack.

So, I just assumed that meant a smaller vehicle.

So, if I remember correctly, the Recon has a hundred kilowatt hour battery pack,

which is kind of the same as is bigger than the battery pack that's in the Maki.

The thing that's killing the range of it, and I think this is one of the things that

is going to actually kind of hurt range in all of these days, the deception of one,

is you're pushing a block through the air with big knobby tires on it.

There's nothing wrong with that. That's perfectly acceptable.

Don't ever talk about that again. That's actually the preferred method of travel.

Oh, I didn't say it was.

I didn't say it was bad. I just said it ain't air dynamic.

The locks can fly. That's right. That's right. You throw a brick hard enough.

First generation F-150 Lightning. You could say a whole lot about it. You could say it was slow.

It might be slow in comparison to now.

Yeah, as they say in the North Carolina, it won't slow.

Yeah, it won't slow for sure. But yeah, I think the big tires and stuff that they got on that Moab

first edition one is hurting the range a little bit. But the backside of that is,

if they do the e-rev thing, they're going to kind of circumvent that,

like the Harvester configuration of the traveler.

So this is the thing. I'm just going to put it out there.

As we've talked about in the past, Off-Road is the new sporty, right?

Yeah, Rugged. Rugged is the new sporty.

Now, given that we all agree on that and we've all talked about it a lot,

we know that any of these vehicles that we're discussing, the Rivian, the Scout, the Jeep,

these are all vehicles that

people are going to want to make their own. And part of that making their own is

nobody's going to put smaller, less aggressive tires on it. Nobody's going to be like,

let me get one of these and put cheater slicks on it. And if somebody does that,

you're definitely doing it wrong and you're not invited back for the podcast.

You're doing it wrong, as Derek D would say. You're doing it wrong. So given that information,

wouldn't Jeep actually be a little ahead of the curve if they are truly given

like lower fuel economy numbers because they're showing what it would be with a bigger tire on it?

I mean, you can get a Scout with like 35s or 37s on it stock. So I mean, clearly they've

accounted for that in their mileage, but I don't know. I mean, to me, I don't know. To me, I just

feel like their range should be better if it's that big. I feel like it's got to be smaller. I

feel like this thing is closer to RAV4 size. So you mean the Jeep or the Jeep? So the thing that

I was surprised about, the two things that surprised me the most about the Jeep Recon,

and again, these are not necessarily my foretape, but because I am friends with you,

you are one of my best friends on the planet. You have made me pay way more attention to all

40 things that I ever have or whatever. One thing that surprised me with the Jeep was

I think that may be the first EV that comes to mind that you can get a spare tire that comes

with a spare tire. The Scout comes with a spare tire? Well, I ain't seen that yet. Does it come

with a spare tire? Yes. I'm not sure. Well, that's two of them. But the Recon is hanging

the spare tire off the back like it should be, like Jeep's do. And I was like, wait, you're

doing that? And then the other thing that surprised me was actually how big it was. It is bigger.

It is bigger or wider, not wider, longer than the Wagon Air SEV.

Where are you finding the dimensions on this? Watching videos and watching videos from cars.com

and all that stuff like that. And every one of those people, like Doug went and saw it and

we all expected this to be. The first sentiment was, one of our profiling sentiments was

that they thought it was going to be smaller and it's not. It's bigger than the Rivian.

When we get done with this, we'll watch a video together. Cars.com or something like that. I

think Cars.com actually that has a video with comparing it to the R2.

Now, to me, in my mind, it would be the same size as the RT2 or R2T or whatever the order is.

I think it's just R2. I'm not sure.

Okay, I've got the dimensions now. I'm actually looking.

So why are you looking at that? So one thing that I thought was

kind of wild about this is the recon, the first way you can get it is going to be around about

$65,000. The Rivian is supposed to be coming to market with a $45,000 version. And the scout

is around about $60,000, right? Yes. And I was like, man, how is the Rivian undercutting this?

And then I realized it's like, oh, oh, cheap. It's coming with the first edition one.

Because they think that model still works. It's going to have to be cheaper when it comes.

But I was listening to the AutoLine network and they put me on game. There's another

there's another vehicle in this mix that could be smack dab in this mix and be the better vehicle

all around if Ford were to do it. Ford introduced the Everest. No, they do have a new Everest.

It's not even the Everest. Ford introduced a Ford Bronco new energy that is only for the Chinese

market. Of course it is. It does. It is EV. It is EREV. It gets better range when they convert

from the Chinese tests and American tests. I want you to give you one guess at how much you

did, how much they this thing is supposed to cost. I don't know the conversion rate to the Chinese

$32,300. There are no safety regulations in China. So that makes sense. They can build the roof

out of paper mache. Oh, this vehicle is on the next generation Ford EV platform. So it will

expand to other markets. Probably not. Oh, no, this vehicle will be it will be in Australia

and things like and in the Middle East and stuff. So they they built a and it's bigger.

It is bigger. It looks like the explore sport, but it's as big as the Bronco.

And I was like, how in the world are they undercutting these vehicles with a vehicle that

costs as much and on paper, our performance are low. And then and then. But so I don't again,

tell them I'm doing it wrong. This is another thing. I was like, Ford, why are you not first?

First of all, let's go back to the old argument. Ford, why in the world is the Everest not being

sold in America? Why in the world? And to I agree. I agree. Every time I've been in a market where

the Everest is on sale and I see one, I'm like, this is so stupid. We can't buy this thing. We get

the Ranger for Toyota Fels sells every Dakar for what they can make. It feels like oh, yeah. At

price. I mean, don't even have to like discount them. Why is this vehicle not here? I mean,

it makes no sense. I mean, I heard somebody say one of the people will listen to or follow,

watch their videos. It's like, well, they may not want to undercut the Bronco market. I was like,

what? No, it's two different customers. Yeah. And but the person I was listening to

because look, 100% Jeep sales wranglers and they sell Grand Cherokees. Yeah, exactly. I mean,

I don't understand why the Everest isn't here. Just like I do not understand why this Ford Bronco

new energy isn't here. It makes no sense. I was like, hey, they just killed the Ford just killed

the their best selling vehicle, their second best selling vehicle. Oh God, what was the little SUV?

The Escape. They just killed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, stupid. Yeah, I don't get it. But yeah, so

that's Ford, you're doing it wrong. I don't know why both of those vehicles aren't being

sold in North America. And then there are these other three that I did not tell you about.

So at the LA Auto Show as well, Hyundai had a concept that they built a concept car out of

metal and it rolled itself. They drove it onto the showroom, which tells me, in my mind, tells

me it's a little more than a concept because that's not usually what they do in concept cars.

And they let you sit in it. They let people sit in it. Was it a concept car or was it a design

study? Because that's where they'll get tricky. They'll give you a design study, which is a whole

lot closer to a production vehicle than a concept. Yeah, they kept calling it a concept. I was like,

too much of this stuff works for it to be just a concept. Yep, yep, yep. Called the Hyundai

Crater, which is essentially a different version of one of these vehicles, rugged, off-roading

4x4 EV. Toyota still has that FJ EV thing that's supposed to come next year. That definitely looks

small though. Yeah, that looks small, but still similar concept, smaller but similar concept.

And then, I don't know if you knew this, it was announced this week that Audi is going to be

building a vehicle off the platform of the Scout. I saw that. I was going to bring that up. Okay,

all right, I got some dimensions for you. Okay. I've been doing some research while we were

discussing this. All right, cool. So the Scout. The Scout is the tallest of the vehicles of the

Scout, the Jeep, and the Rivian. We're going to say we're comparing those three because this is

going to be a battle. I had no idea that these were this close, so this is going to be a battle.

All right, so the Scout is the tallest at 76 inches to the roof. Now, I think that may be

because it has 35 inch tires on it, whereas these other two are probably, you know, smaller tires.

I think I remember one of the people who looked at the Recon said they had 36s on it.

36s? 35. You do the off-roading thing, man. Okay. So the Jeep is the second tallest at 73 inches,

and the Rivian is the shortest at 66 inches. Okay. The width, and this is, I had to use the,

there's a little bit of discrepancy here because the Jeep only gives you the dimensions of the width

without mirrors. So you're going to get a little, little weird here, but I think they're all relatively

the same. All right. Before you said that, before you said that, one of the reasons why they give

you the width without mirrors is one of the things we did mention is the doors come off of it because

Jeep. And that's actually pretty cool. Like, so the Scout is the widest at just shy of 80 inches.

Without the mirrors. Now, with the mirrors, it's like 90 some, it's a, you know,

10-inch mirrors on this thing, but it's basically 80 inches wide. The Rivian is the next widest

at 75 inches, and the Jeep is just a hair under 75 inches without the mirrors. Okay.

And width helps you on the trails, right? Yeah, it definitely, it definitely helps you.

Make sure vehicle a little more stable. You know, these are all going to be pretty stable off-road

anyway with batteries because there's all the weights going to be down low. So the car is

going to feel so much more planted. I mean, I just think off-roading an EV in general is going to be

a, a new thing that catches on pretty quick. First of all, being able to be dead silent

in the woods and just hear nature and hear the tires interacting with the ground from an

off-roading perspective will be a selling point, but also the torque, the ability to like modulate

your torque inputs will also be a good selling point and then having all that weight lower to

the ground is also a good talking point. The negatives are going to be range, power consumption,

and, and obviously protecting that battery pack because if you get into a rock or something

and damage that battery pack and you're out in the middle of nowhere, you're, you're screwed.

Yeah, you're stuck. Yeah. And that was the ultimate question. I mean, I'll bring all these up.

My ultimate question for all this was, how do you see EV rugged four by four thing working,

which you just kind of answered? Yeah. Now, I mean, let me, I'm going to finish these dimensions

and I'll give another point on what I think about how these things work as off-roaders.

So for the length, the Jeep's actually the longest. If you don't count the spare tire,

which I can't tell if they're counting it on theirs or not, but the spare tire on the Rivian

adds some pretty serious length, but the Jeep is 193 inches long, the Rivian's 190,

or sorry, the Scouts 190 and the Rivian's 185. So there, you know, there's eight inches in

length between the three of them. The wheel bases. I remember watching a couple of videos

and they were saying that because it's on the stellar large platform, the same thing that's under

the Wagner S, but it was longer than the wheel, what's it called? The wheel base is longer than

the Grand Cherokee S. I got you. The Grand Wagner S. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so this is one that's

going to, this is one that's going to be interesting as far as off-roading goes.

The wheel base. So wheel base relative to the length of the vehicle obviously is going to

affect your approach and departure angle and that's a big deal for off-roaders, right? So

your wheel base, the scout actually has the longest wheel base. So it's also going to probably have

the best on-road manners because it's, it's the widest and it's the longest wheel base. So it's

going to feel the most stable at highway speeds. Whereas these other two are going to be a little

more darty and nimble, right? Because they're going to be just a little smaller. So the Scouts

120 inch wheel base, the Rivian's 115 and a half-ish wheel base and then the Jeep's in 113 inch

wheel base. So even though the Jeep is the longest-bodied vehicle, it actually has the shortest

wheel base. So that helps its break over angle, which is the angle between the front wheels and

back wheels. You know, your ability to go over like a sharp point. That's the best way to describe it.

You know, that break over angle is 23 degrees. The approach angle is 33 degrees. The departure

angle is 33 degrees. You compare that to the Rivian and the Rivian's approach angle is 25 degrees

and the departure angle is 27 degrees. And I think that all comes down to the size tires

that the cars are coming with because the Rivian is really so far been geared more towards a

Tesla Model Y rival and not really leaning into the off-roadiness. And I don't, I don't know if

that's intentional, but I feel like it's, I feel like it's an intentional move to save the off-roadiness

for the future R3X. Okay. One, one of the things I think was the cars.com video,

because they were looking at these two, the Rivian and the Jeep specifically, because they were,

you know, at the same show together is that because the Jeep, the doors come off and the roof comes

out and you take all this, it has a more durable slash rugged interior and the Rivian is way nicer,

way more plush interior than the Jeep. And I would think the, the scout would probably fit

squarely in the middle of those two things. I think you're probably right. Yeah. Yeah. So,

yeah, I think, I think the Jeep is probably going to have the more rugged interior for sure.

The scout's going to be just a step nicer than that. Yeah. And then the Rivian is definitely

going to be the nicest, more luxurious place to be. But now that being said, I think one of the

things I'll be interested to see is each of these vehicles gets a little closer to production

is going to be how they make use of interior volume space. Because that to me is going to be a big

selling point on these. When you think about the rugged, sporty, overland community, because

all of these vehicles, if you want to sell to the overlanding community, you need space for

seating, but you also need good cargo space, because these people are going to want to put

drawers or a refrigerator or a dog in a hacky sack or something in the back of these things.

And each of these being EVs compromise a ton of rear cargo space because of battery packs.

All right. I'm going to let you finish walking that dog, but I would have thought that you may

have freed up some space. No, because these battery packs are huge. And so you lose, I mean,

look at the rear cargo space in the new Toyota Land Cruiser. It's terrible, right? And when you

compare it to the Lexus GX550, because it's not a hybrid and it's just a naturally aspirated V6,

you get more usable cargo space in the back and or you can out it with a third row seat,

which you can't get in the Land Cruiser again because of the battery pack. It interferes with it.

I get you there, but the battery pack and where the position of the battery pack is different

there, where these battery packs are underneath the body of the vehicle. Yeah, but it still raises.

I'm telling you, it affects cargo space in the rear of the vehicle. The scout in particular

is hurt the most when optioned with the Harvester package because the engine to produce the power,

the gas battery or whatever you call it, the motor battery, it exists in the rear of the vehicle,

essentially making it a 911. But the motor is in the back of the vehicle.

For the record, I said I live in Japan. We don't go through an episode without you

mentioning the 911 either. So, you know, there's three times already. I don't know if you realize

that. I just can't. And then so I was watching the video on the Ford, right? Because they said

this thing on the auto line and I saw it on YouTube. And the way they did it, and I'll show

you the video afterwards, they have this thing where they have a pop up roof that you can get,

first of all. And then they have this thing where you can lay the second row seats in the front

level seats down completely flat and they sell a mattress to go over top of those.

So you can leave your stuff in the way back and sleep in the over top of the front two

levels of seats. I'll show it to you. You look pretty cool. That is pretty interesting.

I'm going to go ahead and say this though. Right now, for me on paper, the scout is still

leading for me in desirability because of one reason above all others. One option that the Rivian

and the Jeep, neither one offer seating. Oh, yeah, because you want to take, you try to take

everybody but you every time you go out in the woods. That's right. And the scout can be optioned

with a front bench seat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we talked about that. So that is a unique

thing. So the Jeep has the A, you can take the windows and the doors off. The scout is A.

They also have an entire canvas roof. So you can still get that open air feel. You just can't

take the doors off. I think you can do it in the Jeep and the scout, right? What's that? The canvas

roof. Yes, I believe that would be correct. The doors coming off on the Jeep is the only one that

does that. The scout has the advantage with it. It's going to be, especially initially offered,

as from the start, you know, it's going to be the E-rev option. And the Rivian is probably going

to be the most on-road of the off-roading things. And it's probably going to be the fastest, to be

honest. It's 100 percent going to be the fastest. Yeah, I'm sure. And I don't know exactly what

trim levels the Jeep will exist in. But to me, the Rivian is going to compete more with, like,

the Outer Banks version of the Jeep. Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, the Rivian, you're going to do,

as far as I know, you can get, they have one more option, a two-motor option, a three-motor

option, just like the Big Brother. Yes. So it's going to be stupid fast. Which, another interesting

story that kind of overlaps this is, I can't even remember what country, maybe, New York,

or China. I don't know which one. Google it if you're that curious. They are

opposing rules to limit the how quick EVs are. Because I think it's an I was going to bring

this up. I mean, these things being 650 horsepower is stupid. Yeah. I think I already said the Jeep

is on track to be like a 350 to 60 or something craziness like that. It's ridiculous. Why?

Why? That's right. Why? Because I can almost guarantee you, I was able to Google those dimensions

and get dimensions pretty quickly, which is interesting. And when you visit the websites and

look at the vehicles, you see all the color options. You see the interior options. You see

the dimensions of the vehicle or capabilities of the vehicle. You know what? You don't see

anywhere on these pages talking about how awesome they're going to be. You got charging times,

range, all these features that make you want to buy these things. But you know what none of the

websites tell you the weight. They're going to be at least six. These things are all going to be

stupid heavy. They are going to destroy tires and trails and trails. Yes. Oh, yeah. Big

knobbies on something that weighs 6,000 pounds going to zero, six and three and a half seconds.

Oh, you buying tires every other month, bro. You are definitely going to buy a lot more tires.

Also, before we keep going down this rabbit hole, there was one other thing that happened this week

in a very similar vein. So Porsche, say how we got to always talk about Porsche, introduced

their electric Cayenne, which they will sell right beside the internal construction combustion

engine Cayenne. Did you see the numbers on that thing? No, I did not see the numbers on that thing

because electric Porsches are not my first choice in car news to go seek out. So what are the numbers

on it? So I can completely expect that from you. And launch control. So regular in the turbo,

turbo EV, in the turbo. Yeah, that's a whole other conversation. Porsche driving around is rolling

around with 850 horsepower. But in the launch configuration, it goes up to 1140.

Yes, that's unnecessary. It has the same 060 time as the 911 turbo.

Turbo. Not the Turbo S, just the regular turbo. The new Turbo S.

What? In an SUV? And a big six and a half thousand pounds SUV, 2.8 seconds or whatever the heck it is.

That actually is stupid fast. It is ridiculous. They do this weird thing too with the screen

that it looks funky. We can watch it. We can look at it after this is over. But yeah, man,

I just wanted to check because again, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't know nothing about

rugged things and off-road-y stuff. I'd just be seeing people with ducts on their windshield because

you know what, before we get off here, I need an explanation because I just don't want to talk to

these people. I just want to talk to my friends. What's with the ducts on the Jeep? Please explain

it for me briefly. When did it start? I don't understand when it started and what it's supposed

to signify. Now, you're asking me to answer a question about a brand of vehicle that I know.

Okay, so as far as I understand and I believe that it all started with some person and if I'm

not mistaken, this person was Canadian. And apparently she had some rubber ducts or bought

some rubber ducts or something and thought that because she owned a Jeep

to spread cheered during COVID, she would put a duck on a Jeep? I don't know. I mean,

I'm sure it's one of those things you could probably internet search it and find out there's

50 different people who say they started it. But I must not be interested in this,

as soon as you're done saying it. I'm pretty sure a woman in Canada started it.

Ducks on Jeeps. Isn't that a safety hazard?

I think just being in a Jeep in general is a safety hazard.

I concur. And on that note, considering how we're an hour and 15 minutes into this thing,

we have updated you on all the electric rugged EV thingies that we know of that's coming out.

We predicted that rugged was going to be the new sporty. It is coming to fruition even more every

day. Do you want any feedback or conversation? We didn't talk about the parade.

That's right. We did not.

Do you want to try to record another episode where we just talked about the parade?

Yeah, we could do that.

Yeah. We can do some Thanksgiving dessert and try to get an episode in.

And it only got to be that long where we talk about you and the parade.

Because if we start talking about it now, we're going to have a two hour episode.

Yeah, that's probably probably the best thing. Probably the best thing to do is just eat

wrap here and we'll do another episode. All right.

Oh, but I love you, dude. I love you.

Thanksgiving parade episode coming. Not Thanksgiving parade. Veterans Day parade.

Episode. Veterans Day parade episode coming just in time for Thanksgiving.

All right. Good night. Good night, Bill. Good night, everybody.

Good evening, Stanley. Hello, listeners. Welcome to another episode of the BS Car Guys podcast.

We are recording back to back so that we can squeeze in a mini episode all about the Veterans

Day parade. Yep. Yeah, Bill had an outstanding opportunity to represent veterans on Veterans

Day parade. He was able to veterans on Veterans Day in a parade, him being a vet. And I thought

that was a good idea. He tried to get me up there to do it, but I decided to go for school.

I was definitely too, I was too, too cool. So I had to go to school.

Clever, clever. Yep. My grandson's, my grandson's school had a Veterans Day program and he wanted

my wife and I to come, both of us are vets. So we, we went to that because he was up there

saying little kid things and it was cute. But Bill, on the other hand, probably had way more fun

than to see bad skits at horrible drawings from seven, six and seven year olds.

They're not horrible drawings. They are, you know, they're what they could do with the,

you know, supplies and skill set that they had at that point. Gotta start somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah. You are a calligrapher and I was an artist. That's right. So this is how we started

making very bad artists, not all autistic. No, I'm that too. I'm definitely not.

I'm artistic. So. So yeah, Bill, tell us what, you know, hey, how was it, man? Is that your

first parade that you drove in? No, I have driven in some parades. This was not the first, I don't

know, third or fourth something. It's not my first. It was, was the first time,

trying to think, I'm pretty sure it's the first time with the exception of an accidental parade

route entry into the Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in downtown Atlanta in my Saturn. It was

the first time driving an entire parade route in a manual transmission car. I typically have

done it in an automatic. So that was a little different. Not only was it a manual transmission

car, it was not a modern manual transmission car that does things for you. 100% accurate.

Yes. And so anyway, so I did get an opportunity. I have a friend of mine who I have gotten to know

over the last, I guess, 10 years and a gentleman named Larry and Larry owns several cars, several

old cars, several collector cars. He is a big Ford guy. So he does own a lot of older Fords.

But he's also a Corvette guy. So he's got some Corvettes as well.

Larry is a veteran of the Army and also a former law enforcement officer. So, you know,

double dipping and has had just had a very interesting life and careers. And so I enjoy

talking with him. I have contemplated doing an interview and actually recording some content

with him for the podcast. I just haven't really brought it up with him or discussed it with him.

You know, I just I enjoy getting to hear the stories and maybe it's a little selfish of me,

but I've just taken those in for myself and I haven't thought, you know, to ask yet about

recording that to put on here. But maybe I'll do that as like a video episode and we can throw it

up on the on the YouTube channel, maybe even do like a overview of his cars or, you know,

I don't know, I was kind of thinking maybe I might over time do like more driving videos

with each of the cars and do like a driving review. Anyway, he's very gracious and humble and, you

know, is happy to have somebody drive his cars. And so I'm very fortunate that he trust me to do that.

He has a if he's ever ridden with you, he would have ever ridden with you in that

sad and he would not trust you to do that. If he rode with me in my Volkswagen, he probably

would second. No, listen, I drive the cars respectfully. And while it may be in a sporting

manner, it's not an abusive manner. And so, you know, you do definitely want to be respectful

of other people's property and treat the privilege as it is. It was a privilege.

So, so Larry and I have gotten to know each other over the years. He used to

deliver and babysit show cars for the race team. And so that's how I got to meet him and get to

know him was working these events side by side and, you know, helping him with the race cars,

unloading them and loading them and telling people to stop touching them and saying, no,

you can't try to sit in it and no, you can't drive it and no, I can't crank it and, you know,

just answering all those same questions over and over again. They can do it at an event where

there's a display car. And so what I've learned is a rough background story on this car is that

it is his second or third Cobra. You know what you didn't do? What's that? Tell people what car

it was. Yeah, well, you know, maybe they watched the videos. I'm getting to that. So there's a

companion video for this. Yes. So, so back in the day, Larry had a Cobra replica that he was,

was racing on a track in a safe, you know, in a controlled environment and had an accident,

had an off and rolled the car. And obviously, you know, roll bar safety, you know, harnesses and

helmet and all that did what it was supposed to do. However, the gas cap was ripped off and the car

did catch on fire. And so Larry was burned and that car was destroyed. And, and then he got the

car that he has now, which is a kit car, Shelby Cobra replica of a 1965 Shelby Cobra. It is built

by a company out of South Africa called Superformance. Now, yeah, my Cobra replica knowledge

is somewhat limited. There are several companies who offer kit cars or replica cobras,

but Superformance was the first and may still be the only actual licensed by Shelby

organization to produce a Cobra replica. The others are technically tributes, which is why

you won't see the word Cobra. You'll see like Roadster or Mark three or four or you'll see

you'll see wording that doesn't use the word Cobra. Yeah, I don't know if I could. I'm probably

going to mess this up and maybe I should Google it. Didn't because of how bad that breakup between

AC and Ford and Carol and all these, all of them kind of have some kind of rights to

various car, various versions of a replica of the thing somehow. I don't got, I don't got really

muddy and like, like, Shelby America doesn't know. So from what I understand, AC really

had no choice but to kind of bow out because they couldn't produce eventually got the point

where they couldn't produce enough bodies and Shelby moved on to other projects because at

the end of the day, he was a sales guy who liked to race, man after my own heart. And

and you know, he was ultimately above all things. He was a great promoter and racer. I mean salesman

and so, you know, it was always on to the next thing because eventually that wasn't new anymore,

you know, and so, and I may be off on some dates here, but you know, Shelby was trying

all kinds of stuff, which is why the Sunbeam Tiger built on a Alpine chassis was also being

campaigned and raced by Shelby around the same time the first Cobras were being built or bought

from AC and converted into Cobras. And it just so happened that I guess at the time

AC could supply more cars and and Ford could get enough engines and it just it just worked out

that that was the car that became the, you know, known with Shelby car. Anyway, fast forward to

the early 90s and the super performance comes out with their their Cobra replica or tribute,

whatever you want to call it. They started importing them into the US in the early 90s.

Larry's car, the car that I drove in the parade, the blue car, I believe was number 74,

brought into the US in 94. I'm not so sure, like I don't believe that the fiberglass

body making process in the 90s was as refined or dialed in as it is today.

So Larry would would not hesitate for a moment to tell you his car is not it's not a mint car,

you know, it's a driver car. It looks great from, you know, 20 feet or more. But if you get

a close and look at it, it's it's got some paint issues because it's paint from 1994 on fiberglass

from 1994. Yeah, two things that didn't necessarily work together, but we kept trying to do it.

Yes, that's right. And so a lot of there's a lot of like resin or moisture from the resin that

found its way back to the surface under the paint. So the paint has some, you know, some

looks like orange peel or bubbles or, you know, just issues.

It could definitely use reconditioned body and repainted and, you know, but anyway, it's a driver's

car. So it has it has about 71,000 miles on it. And so anyway, so I had requested earlier in the year

to borrow it for the parade, because he insisted that I put more than the like 15 miles I put on

it the first time I drove it. He's like, no, no, you've got to really, you know, take it and drive

it for several days and put some miles on it and get used to it. So I picked it up and I had it for a

week leading up to Anna's birthday and Veterans Day and Marine Corps birthday. And, you know,

it's just a fun time of year, beautiful weather, fall weather, it's great weather for getting out

in a topless car and driving. And so I picked Anna up from school in it, did a little video of that

on Facebook and drove it, you know, drove it around, drove in the parade, obviously. Now the

parade was an interesting day because we woke up with a little bit of snow, like a light dusting

on everything and like 34 degrees. And you, first of all, can we pause there for a second?

You keep wanting me to move out there. I'm allergic to the snow, sir.

No, no, we don't get that much snow. This was like not even enough snow to touch. Like if you

touched it, it would just dissolve under your fingers. It was not really snow, but it was an

indicator of how cold it was. So that's November 11th. We shouldn't get snow. I agree. It's very

uncharacteristic for this part of North Carolina to have snow in November. Very, very uncharacteristic.

So anyway, it was a cold day to drive in the parade, needless to say. Yeah. Considering like

two days before on that Sunday, it was like 74 degrees and I was giving people rides in a car

and it was beautiful. I will say this, as I pulled up to my parking spot for the parade,

the speedometer stopped working and it did not work again till I returned it. So I did return

the car more broken than I received it, which is truly a marine thing, I guess. You know,

we're hard on equipment. And also a building. Yeah, and also a building. The car is all the

original components from 94 are on the car. The car has some notable features because as you build

a kit car, you know, you're responsible for adding a lot of the components and sourcing those

components from other places. So while it's badged as a 427 Cobra because it pays homage to a 1965

427 Cobra, it isn't in fact not a 427 Cobra. So the drivetrain is a, let's see if I get this right,

it's a Ford block. It's a 289 based engine that's board out. And I want to say, you know, Larry thinks

that it's probably something like 327, 328 cubic inch. It's, you know, it's still not a,

it's not a big block car. It doesn't have that big giant lumpy, you know, chirping the tires

at idle situation, which is good. It makes it way more drivable and it's less scary. And, you know,

it actually feels pretty nimble and sports car-y. You know, it's not just trying to eat birds out of

skies. You drive down the road. But anyway, it does have a little bit of a cam in it, I believe. So

it's got a good sound to it. It's good chop. But again, it's not like crazy ridiculous

that is paired with a Tremac five-speed. So it is a, you know, slightly more modern five-speed

transmission. If I had to guess, I would say it makes somewhere in the neighborhood of

375, 385, you know, horsepower to the rear wheels. And in a car that light, it definitely makes it

sporty, but it's not unmanageable. The car is carbureted and it has 427 heads on it. So it has

Cobra 427 heads on it. The rear end is an SN95 out of a, you know, like a Terminator Mustang or

Thunderbird from the 90s. So it's that independent rear end, which also gives the car some good

handling characteristics. The tires were like 295s in the front and 315s in the rear. So it's

some confidence because you genuinely have to be trying to be stupid to spin the tires.

You know, it's not going to do just a sitting burnout, leaving a stop sign. Now it will jump

out sideways, leaving a stop sign or going away from a stop light. I know because I just know

don't ask more questions, but good answer. Yeah. Yeah, you may or may not have done that, like,

you know, passing a motorcycle because he was revving on me, but you're talking about the size

of the engine and stuff. You know, everybody talks about the 427, the big block bag, all

copers and stuff. And everybody who I know who's driven one of those in real life

told me had driven other replicas with the 289 or some version of a, some modified version of a

289. And they all come back saying that that one is better to drive. The other one is constantly

trying to kill you even more so than a Viper was. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's such a small wheel

base, you know, I mean, it's basically the size of a Miata, you know, it's small. You sit,

you know, your, your butt is basically in line with the rear axles, like you're that far back.

And so it, you know, it is an odd, odd behaving car, but it's again, it's manageable. It's very,

it's a pleasant driving experience. You never meet somebody who doesn't like you. Everybody

wants to, you know, talk about the car and look at the car. And I stopped and got gas and a kid

climbed out of the back of an SUV and just stood in at the gas pump while his mom was getting gas,

just to watch me leave the park a lot. Yeah. You know, that like, it's just, it's, it's a,

an event, kind of a vehicle that when you drive it, you know, it's, it's an event.

Pretty fantastic. See, what else you need to know about the car and the driving experience?

You know, no power steering, all manual. No power to nothing. I would imagine no power to nothing.

Well, the brakes are, you know, hydro boosted. So you do, you do have

some assist on the brakes. It's not like full-on manual brakes, but yeah, it's, it's pretty basic.

But yeah, it's a lot of fun.

I know that when you first started driving that car, that was, it was one of the highlights that

we spoke about. I think we spoke about a different podcast. And I'm glad that he allowed you to do

this. I'm glad that you got to represent yourself and the rest of us veterans in this parade in such a

good way, in such a memorable way for you. Because I'm not saying that this is the highlight of your

life or you're never going to get to another high, but I know this means the things to you that

maybe some non-vets don't understand. And I would, I would not have missed my grandson's

horrible singing. But I still wish I was there to co-pile it with you back.

Well, Anna and Kendra rode along with me. Anna got to see it like a little princess up on the top.

And Kendra rode shotgun with her beanie on and all the blankets and hand warmers.

I know she wasn't having it. But we threw out candy and waved and had a good time.

And you know, it's interesting. So I did get some banners made up. And we had a convoy,

I guess I should say, in the parade. There was an original goal of mine that we would do all

family members' cars in the parade. And it was going to be an all forward lineup in red, white,

and blue. Unfortunately, Kendra's uncle's car, which is a 34 Ford Coupe, was having some problems

and could not make the parade, couldn't get it sorted out in time for the parade. So unfortunately,

he did not make it up to join us. But at the last minute, a guy that I've known for several years

now worked with at the zip line who has a newer Mustang that coincidentally was red.

He was able to join us. So we did Mustang, Cobra Mustang. And even though it wasn't red,

white, and blue, it was red, blue, and white. And so he led the way. He's an army veteran.

And so he had some army flags. And then I was in the middle with the Cobra. And I had some banners

made for the birthday of the Marine Corps, since it was a pretty big event, being a 250th through

raw. And so I had banners made that were Happy Birthday, United States Marine Corps. And then

sponsored by BS Car Guys podcast with a QR code that folks at the parade can scan and come follow

us on the podcast. So if you're joining us and listening because you scanned a QR code,

thank you. And welcome to the podcast. And and then we had also had banners made up for

Caleb's car, who, you know, is is in college, but he's been on the podcast and talking about his

Mustang. So he has a 67 Trump car, not a hatchback, not a fastback. And it's a 289 car with an

automatic. And it also has a working heater. So he was enjoying warm during the parade.

But we had some banners made up for his car for all of the army veterans in the family,

of which I think there are five in our kind of, you know, extended family. So I'm the only Marine

vet. And then we got the five army guys. And so, you know, we really use it as an opportunity,

obviously, to, you know, pay tribute to all veterans on Veterans Day, but, you know, be like

a little family parade in the parade, so that we could throw a shout out to to the family

members and our family that have served and, you know, been willing to lay down their lives to

protect our country and our freedoms. So it was pretty cool. And it was cool to see other veterans

and get waved at by other veterans and, you know, see the kids waving at the car. Unfortunately,

because it was so cold, unseasonably cold, attendance for the parade was much smaller

than in years past. And I also believe it meant there were a lot less entries in the parade.

Typically, and this is just a shout out to the Ashbrook Veterans Parade and Lucky Locado puts

it on, also a former Marine. You know, it normally is 200 plus entries and takes the better part

of an hour and a half to drive by when you're standing there watching. It is a serious, we have

an aircraft flyover like a vintage aircraft will fly over the parade route before the singing in

the national anthem. And I mean, it's it's a whole event for sure. So, you know, if you're ever

out in the Ashbrook area and it's around Veterans Day, it's definitely one worth attending. And who

knows what what I'll try to drive next year. But you know, we'll figure something out.

Maybe I'm gonna try to figure out I don't go to next year. I'm gonna try to get up there with you.

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough for you, though, because I, you know, I really didn't realize,

but there are like 73 people in your family that all have November birthdays.

Yes, yes, there is legitimately a birthday every day that I can think of in November.

An event, let's say that it is your birthday or wedding or something every day in the month of

November. But yeah, man, I must stop. I'm gonna try to not let that be an excuse at some point.

We've been talking about doing this for a while. So let's just do it.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, at the very least, we'll just have to schedule a time for you to

come up. We'll go down to Larry's house, and we'll drive something cool and do a video of us

just driving it around. I don't know, man. Me scaring you to death in it. I don't know. Maybe

I hit the lot up by then. I can finally get you at 9-11 that you refuse to buy.

Refuse to buy is a tough. That's a strong, strong sentiment. I will say this. Why don't you have it?

There may or may not have been a brochure and informational packet coming to mail today

from Factory Five Racing. I'm hard in on wanting to get a Cobra replica at this point. I really

fell in love with that driving experience and that kind of a driving experience that even though

I've always been die hard, I will never own a convertible. I may have been won over to the

open air experience in the Cobra. Well, I'm on the website right now looking and dreaming so there.

It's a couple. It's a couple on hand that so if you were to do that, would you go traditional

blue, blue or white or would you go do something different?

Yeah, so

this is very tough for me because the old man and me would have absolutely have a

white or black solid, no racing stripe, maybe like a cream, cream, white

slab side 289 car like first generation of the Cobra before they got all wide and meaty.

That's the purest enemy would want that car, the gentleman's Cobra. However, after driving around in

that 427 replica with the big meats, the look of that car and the presence that car has,

I think I would probably wind up going more that route, but for sure it would be a solid color,

no racing stripes for me. Possibly more of an old style racing livery with like the circle

numbers on there and that kind of a look. The only thing, so here, look, we're going to go down a

whole rabbit hole here. I realized pretty quickly driving around in this one that I prefer the look

of no side pipes. Hmm, that may be controversial. I know, that's what I'm saying. I would have told,

yeah, I would have said no, no, side pipes and after watching some videos and listening to

some audio of the different options that are out there, side pipes have a very unique sound.

They are, they are manly and cool, but I think I prefer

the rear exit, which again is more of the like gentleman's sports car look of a rear exit exhaust.

I think that would be my preference. And unfortunately, factory five doesn't offer

that as an option. So that puts me back towards the super performance. So yeah, well, I'm on the

super performance website right now and they have a black one with a white racing stripe down the

middle and bordered by red on the on the racing stripes, which I think is really, really, really,

really sharp. I like that. But at the same time, we scroll through here and let's see,

get right back to where I was. When you get to the mark two of their immediate availabilities,

they got the old school mark two that's all black with the wire wheels and the red interior,

which is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful car. And if it had to be mine, I might go that way just

because it's classic looking, isn't it? I mean, it looks classy. Yeah, I mean,

I know I know my wife would ride with me and that's why I'm not sure she'll ride with me

in in the crazy fast looking one. I mean, we talked we had we had conversations before about

date night cars and stuff like this car right here is a date night parade car all day long.

This car all day all day long. But yeah, man. So yeah, that was it. We wanted to record this little

episode right here to talk about Bill at Bill at the Veterans Day Parade. And again, we do there is

a video on YouTube on BS Car Guys that you should go check out and watch and drive and do him and

his wife and his daughter in the in the Veterans Day Parade will ask you that if you don't know

a veteran and you don't have veteran in life, if you don't think you have veteran in your life,

you actually do and seek them out and you might they might not want all the attention,

but just let them know that you appreciate the sacrifices that they've made. Yeah. And look,

take some time to get to knowing that might tell you some crazy stories. Oh, they will tell you

crazy because that's one thing all of us got in common crazy scores. All of us went to bootcamp

and that's a story by itself. That's right. That's exactly right. I guess it on that note.

I love you, Bill. Love you, Stanley. Good night, everybody. Night, y'all.

Okay.

Let them Fight/The Parade

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