Long-Distance Motorcycle Travel: Saying Yes to the Unknown
Adventure Rider Radio – Motorcycle Podcast
Long-Distance Motorcycle Travel: Saying Yes to the Unknown
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Car
BMW F 700 GS
A BMW F 700 GS is a type of motorcycle made by BMW. It’s designed for both everyday riding and longer trips, which fits the “travel the world” theme in the story.
Term
license test
A license test is the official exam you take to get permission to ride a motorcycle. It checks that you can control the bike safely, especially at low speeds.
Term
factory cruise control
Factory cruise control is cruise control that comes from the factory on the bike. It keeps your speed steady so you don’t have to hold the throttle as much, which helps on long trips.
Part
Atlas throttle lock
The Atlas throttle lock is a gadget that helps keep your throttle steady. If your bike doesn’t have cruise control, it can make long rides less tiring because you don’t have to keep your hand at the same spot.
Car
BMW New Bmws
The BMW New Class was a set of BMW cars from the early 1960s. It helped BMW become known for building sporty, driver-focused sedans again. In stories, it often comes up because those cars were new and important for BMW’s direction at the time.
Car
Dodge Journey
The Dodge Journey is a crossover SUV, meaning it’s built for carrying people and gear comfortably. People often talk about it in terms of everyday trips and family driving. It’s not mainly a sports car—it’s meant to be practical.
Term
roadside service
Roadside service is when you call for help if your car breaks down. It can include things like towing or someone coming to fix the problem.
Brand
Cyclops Adventure Sports
Cyclops Adventure Sports makes aftermarket lights for motorcycles. They’re known for selling lighting that’s meant to be reliable for riding, especially on trips.
Term
Canbus plug and play
“Canbus plug and play” means the light upgrade is designed to work with your bike’s computer wiring. It’s meant to install without causing warning lights or weird blinking.
Term
LED headlight replacements
LED headlight replacements are aftermarket headlight upgrades that use LED bulbs. People do this for better lighting and usually fewer replacements over time.
Brand
IMS products
IMS products makes aftermarket gear for motorcycles, especially parts you touch while riding. In this segment, they’re talking about foot pegs made for adventure riding.
Term
adventure motorcycle foot peg
Adventure motorcycle foot pegs are the pegs designed for off-road and long rides. They’re usually made to give your boots more grip when you’re standing up.
Term
warrantied for life
“Warrantied for life” means the company says the part is covered by warranty for a long time—often for as long as you own it. You’d still want to check the exact warranty wording.
Term
wheel bearings
Wheel bearings are small parts that help your wheel spin smoothly. If they wear out, the wheel can start making noise or feel rough, and it can get harder to ride safely. Here, they broke and forced the rider to deal with repairs while traveling.
Concept
Darien Gap
The Darien Gap is a dangerous, hard-to-cross jungle area between Panama and Colombia. There aren’t roads you can ride through, so travelers often have to fly or ship the bike another way. It’s a major “you can’t just ride there” obstacle on that route.
Term
downburst
A downburst is a sudden burst of very strong wind that comes down from a storm and then spreads out on the ground. It can make the weather change fast—like going from normal conditions to dangerous rain or hail.
Term
hypothermia
Hypothermia means your body gets too cold. In cold wind and hail—especially at high altitude—your body can lose heat faster than you can stay warm, and it can become dangerous quickly.
Term
altitude of 4,300 meters
At higher altitude, the air is thinner and conditions can feel more extreme. Around 4,300 meters, cold wind and hail can hit you harder, so it’s easier to get too cold.
Term
GPS
GPS is a navigation system that uses satellites to figure out where you are. It then helps you choose a route and follow directions so you can get to your destination.
Concept
source of truth
When you’re navigating and two things disagree (like GPS saying one way and someone else saying another), you have to pick one to trust. Otherwise you can end up confused and going the wrong way.
LIVE
12 years. That's how long we've been making Adventure Rider Radio. 12 years of motorcycle
stories from all around the world listened to by riders in almost every single country
and it's still the most listened to adventure motorcycle show of its kind. Rider Skills,
Deep Trouble, Adventure Rider Radio Raw, Southward Chronicles, stories of riders crossing continents
getting into trouble, figuring things out and finding what motorcycles can open up for
us in life. And over those years, we've heard from so many listeners about what Adventure
Rider Radio and Raw have meant to them. Many have told us that it's actually changed their
lives for the better. Some have said it helps them get through some difficult times. Others
say it gets them through every day at work, these long days at work. Others have said
that they gave them the courage to buy a motorcycle, ride somewhere they never thought they could,
take a trip or just look at their own life a little differently. Those are some of the
things that have always fueled us for doing Adventure Rider Radio because Adventure Rider
Radio was never about motorcycles. It's about what motorcycles open up for us. That doesn't
mean that everyone wants to sell everything, quit their job and ride around the world.
Most people don't. Most people have their own version of adventure, their own responsibilities,
their own limits, their own way of doing things. But there's something really powerful about
hearing what's possible. You can listen to someone cross a continent by motorcycle and
never want to do the exact same thing yourself. But that story can still move something in
you. It can make you think about a ride you've been putting off, a place you wanted to see,
maybe a skill you wanted to learn or just a decision you've been circling for far too long.
That's what stories do for us. They open doors. They show us what other people have done. And
as we celebrate 12 years of Adventure Rider Radio, we're bringing back one of those stories
from the archives. Marina Matthew didn't exactly glide into motorcycling. In fact, during her
motorcycle test, while she's taking it, she dropped her motorcycle. Then to make things
worse, she had to ask the examiner how to pick it up. Now that little experience would
be enough to make most people walk away from the whole idea. But Marina didn't. With some
help from her friends, she kept at it. She joined a motorcycle club. And that's where
she met Paul Nibbs. Now Paul had his own way of looking at things. When Marina kept saying
no when he asked her to go out, he kept coming back with the same simple line. Just say yes.
One date became another, then a life together. And then two BMW F 700 GS motorcycles sitting
in the showroom, one with Marina's name on it, the other with Paul's and Paul down on
one knee, asking her to marry him and travel the world. No ring at first. Just the bikes. Marina
and Paul's story is honest and full of those moments that remind you how quickly life can
change once you stop saying no before you've even given something a chance. It's about
motorcycles. Yes, it's also about fear and timing and over planning, trust, accepting
help from strangers and learning that a big life doesn't always happen at once. Sometimes
it happens on the road one kilometer at a time.
What's worse than dropping your motorcycle during your license test? Well, having to ask the
tester to show you how to pick it up.
And with a rough start like that, one could be forgiven for just calling it quits, but
Marina Matthew, she doesn't give up that easy. So with a little help from her friends, she
eventually did become a rider. And then through that was introduced to another rider named
Paul Nibbs. And from the first meeting, Paul saw something in Marina that just kept him
coming back. But it wasn't as easy as just asking her out. He created a mini marketing
campaign of just say yes to finally convince her to take a chance on him. It worked. She
said yes.
The two walked in hand in hand to a BMW dealership and Marina stopped and looked puzzled at two
F 700 GS parked in the middle of the showroom floor with her name on one and Paul's on the
other. Paul turned to her bent down on one knee looked into Marina's eyes and said, let's
get married and travel the world. Just say yes. Marina looked back at him and said, I'm
Jim Martin. This is Adventure Rider Radio. Stay with us. We got a good one for you.
Hi, this is Charlie Bourbon, not a schoolmaker, Simon Manicum, Austin Vance, Grant Johnson,
Jocelyn Snow, Ted Simons, Simon Patey, Jimmy Lewis, Lyndon Pusket, Tiffany Kate, Chris
Birch, Simon Thomas, Lisa Chalvis, Graham Jarvis, Clinton Smout and you're listening to Adventure
Rider Radio.
Experience riders choose the cycle pump tire inflator made by Best Rest products for one
reason because they can count on it when they pull that out of their pannier no matter what.
They're so tough. They're warrantied for life. Best Rest has loads of other motor specific
products like the hex wrench, which is a combination tire iron slash wrench. And they're known for
their top quality tire plugs and patch kits. More at cycle pump.com. And Green Chili Adventure Gear
offers American made heavy duty luggage systems for all types of motorcycles. You can turn any
dry bag into luggage using their strapping system. And of course, Green Chili Adventure Gear is
tested in extreme weather and terrain to withstand the abuse that Adventure Riding gives it. Tough,
reliable gear Green Chili ADV.com.
So I'm a Rainer Matthew. I'm currently riding my motorcycle, I think around the world.
So far it's been across the Americas. Previously worked in pharmaceuticals. I've been a professional
all my life and yeah, now I'm travelling. And I'm Paul. Same kind of gig looking to ride around
where we can go. Used to work in IT, but now gleefully unemployed.
Where are you guys sitting right now? On a couch. We're sitting on a couch in a very dear friend's
home in South Africa. So we've popped across to South Africa for a month as an interim break between
our travels from the Americas and we heading off to Europe next. Now, Paul, when did you start
riding motorcycles? I rode when I was a kid. When I was a young guy. And then I took a long
break and then I got back into it probably in 2006, something of that order. So a fair few years,
but all on the road and all, you know, not too far from home sort of thing.
And no off-road riding? It's all been on road riding?
A little bit. Moreno and I went to Cambodia. So I was, there's a bit of a trial by fire. I'd never
been on a dirt bike before. And we rode through Cambodia up to the temples in Siam Reap,
which was a wonderful experience and it was a spectacular kind of countryside. It was, you know,
like awesome. I came away with a fractured leg, but aside from that, it was great. So that was my
trial. Aside from that, that's good. Well, first, Marina, your story about getting your motorcycle
licenses is kind of interesting. Why did you want to get a motorcycle license to begin with?
Well, I'd been riding dirt bikes as a kid, you know, on the farm here in South Africa and in the
bush. And I wasn't comfortable being pillion. And I just decided I know how to ride a bike,
but I just don't have my license. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. Riding on road is
an entirely different ballgame to riding off road in the bush. So my first attempt at getting my
license, I actually dropped my bike during the test. And I recall, you know, all my friends and
members of staff were waiting to hear that I get my license and I had to message them that evening
what's worse than dropping your bike during your test, having to ask the examiner to show you how
to pick it up. So yeah, it was a trial by fire. And I didn't take to riding on the road and the
traffic as readily as I would have hoped. A lot of people will say the off road riding is much
more difficult than the street riding. So I guess it's wherever you come from. You were comfortable
in the dirt and the street seemed to be very scary to you. But that's hilarious, though,
what's worse than dropping your bike during your test, having to ask the examiner to pick it up.
I mean, that it's fantastic. What did the examiner say?
Well, he just said, do not collect your $200, just go straight home.
What were you doing at the time? What were you working at?
What was my job? So I was working as a sales manager and pharmaceuticals at the time.
And as you mentioned, you had trouble passing your test, you had a little trouble getting used
to the bike on the road, you had your friends help you out and they sort of took you under their
wing, didn't they? Oh, if it wasn't for the mentors, I mean, Ian Hales, Janine Lysette,
you know, I mentioned them by name because if it wasn't for their support and encouragement,
their humor, they just said, you know, they taught me about riding with other bikers,
learning from other bikers, not trying to do it alone, not being scared of the fact that,
yeah, you fall, it's just part of biking. You know, they were just remarkable in terms of
their encouragement. And yeah, I mean, from there, I didn't look back. And incidentally, Ian
encouraged me to join the motorcycle club and that's actually where I met Paul. So not only did it
support my motorcycling experience, it certainly became a life experience.
So they did an awful lot for you. Yeah, much, much more than just the motorcycle,
they changed your life really. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if you were to ask Paul about
the first day that he saw me, I'm sure he can describe to you in great detail how
all these experienced bikers watched me arriving for the motorcycle meet and they
all looked at each other and said, what, Paul? As a friend of mine said, alone is a wobbler.
Yeah, anyway, I wobbled my way into his life. And incidentally, that group of friends have
become incredibly dear, but you know, they did initiate the rookie. And yeah, I've lived to
tell the tale. And I understand that, you know, I don't know if I should be saying this because
everybody's going to hear this, but I understand that Paul had a lot of trouble getting you to
actually commit to go out with them, just an initial date. Yeah, she was a bit like teeming
of the shrew. But you know, persistence, persistence, persistence, right? That seems to be the way to
a woman's heart. Yeah, I'm a very independent spirit and, you know, once bitten twice shy
and all the rest. And I just kept saying, no, no, no. And Paul just started saying,
what's wrong with one date? Just say yes. And yeah, one date, I actually had a lot of fun.
And then it was, how about another date? Just say yes. And yeah, essentially, Paul's taught me that
instead of saying no to things, maybe just say yes to things and, you know, what's the worst
that can happen. And yeah, we haven't looked back. And I ended up saying yes to a lot more things
beyond that first date. About a year later, I said yes to us buying our first home together.
I've also learned how to challenge Paul about the things he needs to say yes about.
But yeah, there's a great lesson in that. I think we shouldn't be as afraid as we are.
It's quite a good reminder. Why did Paul not look like a good bet for you to begin with?
What was it about him that you just didn't like? I don't think it was so much about Paul.
Hey, he looked 10 years younger than myself. And any 10. Yeah, no, I just wasn't in the right space.
Yeah, it was more about, it wasn't about Paul. It was just about, yeah. And I'm glad his curiosity
didn't dwindle. And I'm grateful that he persevered. Because that may have been the biggest mistake
for me is, yeah, not getting to eventually saying yes.
And as you just alluded to a minute ago, just say yes. It's a bit of a mantra for you guys now.
Very much so. And I think one thing about our relationship is we do constantly challenge
each other and we do look each other in the eye and say, well, why not? Why are we not saying yes
to this? Why shouldn't we be doing this? And I think this journey is an example of that.
Isn't there all kinds of reasons though? I mean, if you ask the average person,
why shouldn't you go off and do something crazy different away from the norm?
Don't they automatically have dozens of answers, endless answers?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
There aren't that many answers actually. Most of people's reluctance to do things revolves
around their fear. Whatever that fear is, whether that's a fear of not getting a job when they're
older or fear of this that, but it always comes down to fear. And one of the things
about fear is that it's mixed in with courage. Courage is just having fear, but just doing it
anyway. And I think that's the thing that people have to look to overcome if they want to go and
do something a bit different. Because at the end of the day, life can be very short and things can
often be out of your own control. But fundamentally, we all get back to doing what we normally do
once all of the fun's over. So we don't see it as a life changing thing. It's not something
that one should be fearful of. And if I was to say that if somebody said to me, well,
how can you do these things? You say, well, you just, you just have to take a chance,
just like you do when you do with anything, right? Yeah. And I think when we first met,
one thing we realized that we had in common was, you know, a sense of adventure and, you know,
I kept talking about, I want to have my gap year. I want to have my gap year. And, you know,
my children have heard that all through their lives. And Paul kept saying he's got an adventure
up his sleeve. And so we had that in common. And then we reached a point where we realized,
well, actually Paul sat and did the maths and showed me, look, it's possible,
you know, financially. And then we sort of ran out of reasons to not go other than giving up our
jobs, packing up our house, you know, and selling us it's like cars and what have you. And we just
looked at each other and said, we are able to do something we really want to, if we now
don't have the courage to just say, yes, we'd be fools.
Once you say it out loud, you can't back out really, can you?
Well, that's true. The public declaration. I'm a big fan of that for these type of things,
things that you want to do, but leaving your job, because you said, oh, the only things that were
left to leave your job, that's often the biggest thing. I mean, especially as we get older, you
know, the thought of going back and being a job hunter at this point in life is somewhat
unnerving. So that's a huge decision to leave the job.
Yeah. Yeah. And again, I mean, Paul and I have different stories that he might like to share
his first, but for me, yeah, that was huge. That was that was my biggest obstacle by far.
Paul? Yeah, one of the things I would say about this is that, you know, like, if you take time
out from work, you're really just taking a role on that's different from the role you're in.
You know, when you go and speak to an employer, they often give you the same kind of,
you know, platitude questions like where do you see yourself in five years and all these
kind of things that that occur in these these situations. And, you know, the truth of the
matter is that, well, particularly in Australia, anywhere where we live, 10 year at a job is
probably only two years or three years, people move around all the time. So I would just turn
around and say, well, look, I've just been doing another role for the last two years, and it just
happens to have been on two wheels. So I think it's just a matter of where your headspace is.
I mean, it's all about life's all about opportunity, right? You can, if you get the opportunity,
you can get back in. But, you know, with reference to your earlier question about fear,
yeah, people are afraid to take those chances. Now, okay, we could end up unemployed, but,
you know, we'll, we'll deal with that on the day. I mean, that just comes one of the other things
I've learned on this trip is that it makes no sense to try and over plan things because
they generally don't work out the way you plan them anyway. And also, it just, you know,
messes with your head when you think about destinations and timings and everything else.
We'll go back, we'll get work and it won't be a problem.
You almost set yourself up for failure when you over plan, don't you? Because you have this
imagined outcome and you plan it all and you work through all the details. And then when it
doesn't work out, it just feels like a failure. It feels like, oh, you know, the whole thing fell
apart aside from the fact you wasted your time on it. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I know at the
start of our journey, you know, we had all these plans and we had prepped ourselves down to the
last minute. And then when we got to Canada and the weather was just not doing what it was supposed
to, we were absolutely horrified because our plans suddenly were just, you know, dashed.
So we learned very, very early on to just take it one day at a time. And then it'll be one week at
time. And our journey just unfolded as opposed to having this mapped out agenda and then feeling
like a failure. And we've had the most incredible adventure just literally day by day, day by day.
And we actually don't enjoy, we don't enjoy planning too far ahead.
No, as I was thinking about, you know, how in the old days, you would have to plan things because
the world was more, what's the word, the world required that you engaged with it a bit in a
more structured way, you know, like if you wanted an airplane ticket, you had to go an agent to book
it for you. And then they would send you tickets in the post and all that kind of stuff. And now
we live in a world where I'm pretty confident if I went to the airport right now, I could get to
London, you know, so I don't need to, you know, engage the world in such a structured way. You
can just kind of go, well, what's it look like today? And I think if you over plan things,
it creates two problems for you. One has to your point, you know, there's a good chance your plans
won't come together because everybody else involved in your plan doesn't know what their roles are.
That's something I learned in sales. You know, because I was in IT sales, and they would say,
well, you got to put yourself on the other side of the table, not everybody, not everybody knows
what what the agenda is and what their roles are. So that's what plans are like. And second of all,
you do learn that if you plan things too much, even if it's next week, your whole week is focused
around that that point in time. And so therefore you lose focus on what you're doing today. And
much as it creates a sort of a laissez faire attitude to life, it seems to be more relaxing to
just go, well, let's just go to the airport. The back country discovery routes offer some
incredible riding opportunities. But some of the most exciting routes can be difficult to ride.
And this is where Emmaus Moto tours comes in. Emmaus Moto tours specializes in the back country
discovery routes. It's owned and operated by a very enthusiastic adventure rider and guide named
John Sear Bassey. John is on every trip that he may as Moto tours runs every single trip. The owner
John is the lead guide while Jim is the sweep rider. Now the reason that John is on every ride
really is steeped in his reason for starting Emmaus Moto tours to begin with. It's to share
his passion for these places along the back country discovery routes and the ride itself.
Emmaus runs with small groups of up to 10 motorcycles. And John says their detailed
planning is what makes riding the back country discovery routes easier and more fun. Emmaus
Moto tours.com. That's E M M a US Moto tours.com. And tell me you heard him here on adventure
rider radio. Emmaus Moto tours.com. If you aren't riding with a factory cruise control,
you need to try the Atlas throttle lock. The Atlas throttle lock isn't something that you buy for your
bike. It's something you buy for you, the rider, because they have two models, the top kit and
the bottom kit. And they fit just about every bike out there. And they're easy to swap in the
few minutes from one bike to another. It's a beautiful, really well crafted device. But it's
positively with the push of a button to turn it on or pushed of another button to turn it off.
That's it. And if you want to adjust the throttle while it's on, you just roll the throttle on or
often it holds the new position. The Atlas throttle lock release the tension in your hand,
your wrist, right on up to your shoulder of holding the throttle in one position.
Really the only time I think about the Atlas throttle lock is when I don't have it on my bike
because I miss it because it's an integral part of my ride. It makes me comfortable and it reduces
stress. AtlasMoto.com is a website. Anytime you deal with them, make sure you tell them you heard
them here on Adventure Rider Radio. AtlasMoto.com. Overland Expo Pacific Northwest is coming up this
June 26th through 28th in Redmond, Oregon. If overlanding is your thing, you've got to attend
with your ride or drive in. It's a weekend pack with gear, ideas, training and a whole lot of
people who are into overlanding. And really what makes Overland Expo Pacific Northwest so good
is that everything's right there in front of you. You can stop guessing online, get your hands
on the latest gear, compare options side by side and talk directly with the people behind it,
the ones that build it, sell it, use it and teach it. And if you want the full experience,
you've got to camp. Don't just go for the day, immerse yourself in it. Camping on site makes
it so you're a part of the event. And when the day wraps up, you're still there in the middle of
the stories, the conversations, the community that makes this event what it is. Get trained,
get outfitted, get inspired, get going to Overland Expo Pacific Northwest at overlandexpo.com
forward slash pacific-northwest and make sure you tell them that you heard them here on Adventure
Rider Radio. Overlandexpo.com forward slash pacific-northwest.
Your first adventure, Paul, I guess it's Paul's idea. This was the adventure that maybe that he
had planned when you guys met, but the first adventure was to go off and do this mainly
off-road trip again where you mentioned earlier where you broke your leg. Can you talk about that?
I'd said my actual first, first adventure was to move to Australia because I just bought
a one-way ticket and went there and never left. That's why Marina said to me, I had another
adventure up my sleeve because this was the second great adventure. But the trip to Cambodia was
really my own fault. I was getting cocky and I was riding around like I thought I'd mastered
something I hadn't and then found my leg in a hole. In fact, the Cambodia trip was actually
my idea. Again, because I was comfortable on dirt bikes, whereas Paul wasn't. For me, it was a
yeah, he did with an off-road experience. I think that was an example of Paul out of his comfort
zone. We finally got to the temples in Siem Reap and I just had to go around the temples being
supported by a tuk-tuk driver and a crutch that was just a little bit too short because all the
people in Cambodia are only blessed their socks are only like five feet high. The crutches were
too short. Then I'm going to go back to Australia. I found out I had two hairline fractures and a
bunch of other bruises and injuries, but it was all good fun. You didn't actually know it was a
break at the time. No, no. That was quite a pivotal trip for us. With respect to our relationship,
that's when I decided I was in love with this man and just seeing the compassion that Paul had for
the Cambodian people, how he behaved in a really stressful situation. In so many levels, I just
fell in love with Paul. He bought a home for a destitute family in Cambodia.
He really put himself out there. Then secondly, we both realised how we could travel together
and anyone who's travelled will know that sometimes the going gets tough and you're actually
arguing over who gets to sit on the toilet next. It gets really personal and really tough
and if you can handle those kind of things and still come through strong for it,
that's incredible. Firstly, for our relationship was fantastic and then secondly, we realised,
hey, we want to do more of this. We are loving travelling by motorcycle.
So that cemented two things for us really. That was a very pivotal time for us.
You skipped right over very quickly there, buying a house for somebody. I know I'm from Canada,
we don't do that a lot. As a matter of fact, I've never heard anybody do that before.
I'm sort of curious, Paul, how do you just come across buying a house for somebody?
Well, first of all, we've got to find a house. People in Cambodia live basically on stilts with
their houses made out of old bits of corrugated iron and cardboard that they can find from places.
There was a guy that we met as a result of doing the trip. He's the tour owner and he runs a little
foundation where he goes around and builds these houses for Cambodian families.
It's called Global Village Housing. The houses aren't grandiose and for a few
thousand dollars, they put one up and they put your name on it and a family gets to live in it.
It's got a little solar panel and a light and it's just better than what they find themselves in
normally, which is pretty bad. I've seen a fair amount of poverty, so it wasn't a surprise to
me that these people lived this way, so you just help where you can really.
But for me, it was just so meaningful that the first home we bought together, both our names
are on that home. It was a gift to someone else in need and I think that's who we are as people.
We both look out for each other and we look out for others and it was a very strong,
what's the word, it just knit us together in terms of what our true values are. We don't value
things. We value moments, we value experiences and when Paul did that, I just knew I was worth the
right man. In 2016, Paul proposed to you. Can you tell that story? Oh, yeah.
There was no ring involved. All my girlfriends were very quick to point out.
So we'd been talking about doing this journey on motorcycles and we'd been chatting for quite
some time and initially it was a five-year plan and anyway, long story short, it wasn't unusual
for us to go looking at motorcycles and on a weekend Paul said, hey, let's go and look at
some bikes and when we walked into the showroom, there were these two brand new BMWs, one with
my name on it and one with Paul's name on it and he said, marry me unless travel the world,
just say yes. And yeah, that was his marriage proposal with a motorcycle, not a ring.
I did make sure the ring came along later. Can't do anything with a ring.
Yeah, no, that was pretty magic. And so bikes, I mean, bikes brought us together.
Bikes were part of our, those bikes were an integral part of our wedding ceremony.
We're officially still on honeymoon. We have to keep reminding ourselves because
we started this journey shortly after we got married. So yeah, we are knitted through our bikes.
It was April 1st, I think, 2017 when you guys set off. What was the plan?
That was it. Set off. That's it. It's a good plan. Yeah.
Yeah, almost. I mean, we headed for Vancouver and the plan was to head north to Alaska.
But yeah, the weather in Canada was not kind to us.
How do you mean? What time of year did you arrive?
Well, probably within the first week of April because we stopped over in Hawaii for a day or two.
So we got to Vancouver within the first week in April and the snowstorms were just,
yeah, we got as far as Whistler and hung around for a month and eventually decided to head south.
Even some of the places like Jasper and they were inaccessible by road when we were there.
We had a bit of a grand plan. It's fascinating actually because when we first, it comes back
to this idea of planning. See, when people do this trip, they have this great idea they're
going to arrive from Alaska to Patagonia. And I think at some point along the way, you realise
that you just don't, there's no opportunity to do everything all the time. You know,
you've got to pick and choose what you're going to do and sometimes your plans change.
And I said to Moreno, reasonably early in on the trip that, you know, you need to decide whether
you're doing something just because everyone else does it or whether you're just going on your own
journey and that you should just enjoy what you're doing. And if that means you don't get to
take a picture with a snowman or take a picture with a penguin, then, then so be it, right? You've
got to enjoy what you're doing. It's all about the bike ride, right? What is the purpose of
travel for you guys? Is it about riding your motorcycles in different areas? Is it about,
is it the different cultures? Are you after, you know, looking at the places you've seen,
have you heard about that you wanted to visit? No, it's more about people, I think.
You know, that's why I wasn't too focused on whether we would get to Alaska or not, because for me,
it was kind of like, yeah, if I met a nice guy that was, you know, that ran a beer sanctuary
someplace, that'd be great. It's all about the people you meet on the way. And it's all about
looking at the human spirit and seeing how essentially all humans want the same thing,
regardless of, you know, what they look like or how they speak. And for me, that was, you know,
a bit of a revelation, because, you know, I've been to various places in Asia before, and they've
been very functional trips. So to go on a trip like this, where you have to engage with people
about buying petrol or where can I get a tire, you know, there, there, you know, it gives you a
different perspective on life. And so for me, it was all about, you know, if I meet a funny guy
in a truck telling me a funny story, that's made my day. It doesn't really matter where it is,
you know, it's, it's all about the people experience. Yeah, it's definitely been about the
people and the cultural experience. And, you know, the journey has not been about where we've been
as much as who we've encountered and what they've taught us or, or, you know, what we've experienced
whilst we've been with them, what they've challenged us with or what they've made us think about.
And there's some bonkers ones, if you bonker, bonkers Canadians.
Yeah, I find that hard to believe early too.
Before you left, you said that you sort of had a question. Is the world a place with mainly bad
people and a few good people or mainly good people and a few bad people? Was that a big question
for you? Was that something before you guys left that you were sort of unsure of or did
you just leave thinking you knew the answer? Well, you know, the world survives today on
shock and awe, you know, it's all about the world serving you up outrage in the media, you know,
like if you're on Facebook or anything like that, it's all about selling you outrage.
And so, of course, you, you've got to decide for yourself, well, do I believe all that outrage or
am I going to go somewhere and find that, you know, people are just getting on with their days and
just want the same thing everyone else does, you know, and that's the thing that I have found,
you know, and it causes me to reflect when I see something and you go, yeah, okay, no, they just
want us to feel outraged. I mean, there's a lot of who are at the moment where they just,
whether people call things fake news and that's quite a fascinating term because, you know,
all of that's been slightly politicized. At the end of the day is a little bit like that,
you know, where somebody catches only 30 seconds of what somebody says, it's a little out of context,
you know, it's a one off or something or there's rage involved. And the next thing you know,
people are afraid to go places, you know, people would say, oh, you can't go to Mexico because
it's full of, you know, narcotic gangs and you can't go here because the people are unfriendly
and you can't do this and you can't do that and you go, well, I don't believe that's all the people,
you know, I just believe that some of the people and the question is like, how many of the people
and my discovery is that a very, very tiny microscopic percentage and the rest of the
people are just getting on with their lives, you know, drinking tequila and just having a good
time, pretty much. Yeah, we've come away with such a strong sense of humanity is alive and well
and, you know, it's just not loud enough, you know, the bad in the media is too loud,
but humanity is alive and well and, you know, we've encountered it again and again and again,
you know, in the most unexpected places and it's really made us think a lot about
our own humanity. You know, for example, in Latin America, we'd be staying with people,
complete strangers would invite us into their home and, you know, we'd have to trust that,
yeah, our gut feel says this is okay, but then we discover that they've given up their main
bedroom for us as guests and, you know, Paul and I spoke about this and said, well, wow, if we
invited a stranger into our home, we'd put them in a spare room, probably on a blow-up mattress and,
you know, it's just taught us so much about humanity and generosity and trust.
We've just been an awe of the kindness of complete strangers. It's really made us
think long and hard about who will we go back to Australia as? How will we behave?
Have you found that the socioeconomic status of a person or a family affects or at least
correlates with the treatment that you get when you arrive?
We, ironically, we've discovered, although I don't know how scientific it is, but, you know,
Jen, we've found that the richer people are, the worse off they are. That's been our conclusion,
is that the kindness of spirit seems to be there in everyone, but people that are wealthier,
they have that as a barrier. You know, I often say that, you know, if you live in a westernised
country and you're a lawyer and your BMW breaks down, you just call roadside service. If you live
in Peru and your car on the wheel falls off your car, all your mates come out and help you fix it,
and so you tend to get more of a community feeling in areas where people aren't so well off,
and that dissolves a little more as you get into the western style of life.
Is that an independence thing, do you think, or is it a fear of loss, you know, as we become
just better off, and I'm saying better off is financially, is it a fear, do you think,
that we were afraid of losing something or being taken advantage of?
I don't know, it's difficult to say. I think people in the western world, I think they become
culturally isolated, because one of the other things we've discovered is that not only is it
about wealth, it's just about the environment that you're in, like a wealthier environment,
because there are disenfranchised people that live in a wealthy world, right, and those people seem
to be more disenfranchised than poorer people living in a poor world, if that makes sense.
Some of the troubles that we have seen on the way have been, you know, sad souls that are in
big cities where, you know, there shouldn't be those problems, and yet poorer people living in
poorer places, they just seem to be able to, you know, get by, and they're struggling clearly,
but, you know, if you fall off your bike, they'll run out and help you and pick it up, you know,
whereas I guess in the western world, you know, they're potentially on drugs or alcohol, or,
you know, they're isolated, I guess. I don't know why that is, but it's an observation.
It's something we've debated so much amongst ourselves, and, you know,
Buddhist saying has often come to mind for us that, you know, a rich man is unhappy because
he's scared of losing his wealth, and a poor man is unhappy because, you know, he doesn't have anything,
you know, it's this whole thing of fear of loss, you know, that you mentioned. So,
we suspect there's an element of that, but, you know, we were just astounded how in, you know,
some very wealthy cities is where we saw the homelessness and where we saw beggars, whereas in
really, really poor places, it's almost like there's a strong sense of community, and everyone's in
the same boat, and everyone just looks off to everyone, and Ubuntu, you know, which is an African
term, just essentially meaning that people look out for each other, and I don't know, maybe it comes from
everyone being in the same boat. I'm certainly becoming aware that wealth could be isolating
because you're too independent, and there's actually a joy in learning to accept, and I mean,
that's something we've had to deal with because, you know, I mean, I'm certainly fiercely independent,
and it's easier to make my own way, but learning to accept help, or learning to accept,
you know, an offer of something. That does change you, actually. I always say learn to graciously
accept, because I think in our world, if somebody says, oh, why don't you come over and stay, and I
think typically our first response is, oh, that's okay, I don't want to put you out to any trouble,
or, you know, don't worry about it, we'll make a will, and we'll sort ourselves out, blah, blah,
and one thing I've learned is if somebody says, do you want to come and stay over for the evening,
and we'll have a barbecue, I just go, well, yeah, for sure, because, you know, you need to learn to
graciously accept, because the other person is making a genuine offer, and if you try and back
out of it, because you think that you don't want to put them into any trouble, really what you're
saying to them is, no, I don't want your offer, and it's just about perspectives, right?
You're sort of denying them the pleasure of having you.
That's exactly it. You're denying them the pleasure of hosting you, because we all love
to host people. So it's, you know, it was like Marina was saying about how people give up their
beds. One of the guys that gave up his bed had had a stroke, you know, like the poor guy could
hardly climb the stairs or anything, and we found out that he'd given his bed up for us to sleep in
and we had no idea, and yeah, yeah, and so that was quite quite a an eye-opening moment, but yeah,
learn to graciously accept. I think that's the thing we all need to do, because we often forget
that there is pleasure on the other side. That's the whole reason that someone wants to do something
most times is because they're going to feel good, just to do exactly for another person.
But you mentioned independence, you know, we're very independent in the Western world, and I think
that there's a huge part in my mind of why we tend to get maybe just less outgoing and we don't
want to connect with new people as much because you move into a neighborhood now, you don't need
your neighbors anymore. You make your money and you pay for your services and you say,
I don't care about the neighbor. Whereas, you know, if you went back many years,
you would want to fit in your goal. As soon as you arrived, as would your new neighbors do,
everyone would want to get together and meet and let's make a friend here, let's make an ally
sort of thing. It's very true. We had a quite a funny situation recently where, long story
short, we were trying to do some maintenance work back home in our absence, but we needed
some neighbors to be involved. And one of the neighbors messaged us and said, well,
let's meet up next week. And Paul said, do you know we've been away for a year? And that was
just such a reminder to us that what kind of life have we been living for that to happen?
And we've really vowed that the sense of community that we experienced in Latin America is something
we want to always carry with us. People know their neighbors. They are there for each other.
They know what's happening. They party together. That's something we really want to always carry
with us. It was quite an eye-opener for us. We're going to take just a two-minute break
and be right back, but stick around because there's a lot more. There's some really funny stories coming
up.
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You guys survived an earthquake in Mexico. Oh, yeah. Well, I survived a bit. Yeah,
he rattled around a bit. Well, 8.1. That's a pretty good earthquake.
Yeah. I was pretty terrified. I must admit. Paul's the calm one when it comes to those kind
of things. We'd had quite an interesting day leading up to the earthquake where we'd been on
a tour with a tour guide who was very, very strict and he wanted to make sure that after each tour
we had to be back at the bus on time and ready to go. But at each point, the bus driver would
go missing. And long story short, the bus driver would come running along half dressed, shoes on
one hand, shirt on the other with some excuse about helping a friend. And it was just one of
these most bizarre days during which the tour guide had too much tequila and jumped off the bus.
We then got abandoned by the bus driver during a teacher's strike in Oaxaca City.
And we had to find our way back via Google Maps during which the heavens opened and there was
this torrential rain. So we arrived back to our BNB. Everything was flooded. We were soaked. We
were sorting out all our motorbike gear. Eventually got too bad at about half past 11 and then
slightly before midnight, the earth started to move. What do you mean earth started to move?
What happened? Well, my instinct, you know, I was reading Paul was asleep and my instinct
was to turn to him and ask him what he was doing. And then I realized, well, no, there's something
more going on here. And literally, it sounded like a train approaching from the distance.
And the rumbling just got louder and louder and louder. And everything was shaking. The
things were toppling off the fridge. Things were flying off the table.
Yeah, it was and it was really, really loud. I mean, we realized quite quickly,
well, we just assumed, you know, this is this is an earthquake. We had a bit of an altercation
or an argument about what we should do because I wanted to run out and Paul was like, no,
you can't run outside. You know, and he was calmly finding passports and keys. I must say,
I couldn't think straight under the circumstances. But what amazed us most is that the earthquake
died down. And before we could even really realize what had happened, the first message came through
from a friend actually in hails saying, are you guys all right? And then the second message from
my girlfriend in New Zealand, Larry, are you all right? Through social media, people knew there
had been an earthquake in Mexico before we even really had registered ourselves what had just
happened. And that was such a lesson for us in social media. And yeah, how connected we are
in this world. I think it's just made us really reflective of the power of media.
You know, we've used it in a very positive way to prepare for our trip by networking
extensively with with bikers who've previously done the trip that we were looking to do.
You know, we've stayed very closely connected to bikers either ahead of us or following us.
You know, social media has been very, very positive for us.
But yeah, you know, it's we were amazed at how fast bad news traveled.
Marina, you've been riding at this point, not an awfully long time, you're riding a fairly big
bike now, the 700. So at the point that you know, you're in Mexico, how are you feeling riding this
bike? The bike was lowered. So Paul can give you all the details he helped with getting it all sorted
out. So the bike was lowered with this, you know, lowered suspension. And then I also put a lowered
seat on it. So I managed to gain about six centimeters. So that enabled me to at least have the balls
of my feet on the ground as opposed to my tippy toes. So I think for me, what I really just had
to come to terms with was it's okay to fall because you know, when you reach that tipping point and
this bike is going over, my instinct was still to fight it and try and keep the bike upright.
And most I mean, most falls are slow falls. They, you know, slow rides, sharp turns,
cambers, you know, so it's not a dangerous situation by any means.
It just really bruises your ego. So I've just had to learn, you know what, that's actually okay.
It's a bit tough enough. So I mean, Paul and I jerk because his traffic camera on his bike has
captured all my falls and, you know, we've created a bit of a medley of that. But on the occasion
that he fell, I was very quick with the camera, making sure I kept it at all, not always to good
effect. But yeah, you got to just laugh about it and say, Hey, but it's taught me that anything's
possible. When Paul presented that bike with the marriage proposal, I sobbed and
that first night because I couldn't even ride that bike home. And I said to Paul, how am I going to
ride around the world with you? I can't even ride this bike home. We had a very, very stressful
evening of contemplation and brainstorming. Long story short, I woke up in the morning. I said,
I'm riding that bike. We're not stopping for breakfast. There's a McDonald's a couple of
kilometers down the road. We'll ride to there. If I make it, you may buy me some breakfast.
And then we'll discuss the next kilometer. And that day, I rode about 150 kilometers
without incident. And yeah, I just learned one kilometer at a time. You just focus on what you
can here and now. And yeah, that bike has got just over 40,000 kilometers on the clock now.
And yeah, it's a great feeling, a really great feeling.
I thought it was interesting. You said that your bike has 40, both bikes have about 40,000
kilometers on it right now. And the circumference of the world is 40,075 kilometers. You mean you
couldn't just knock off the other 75 before the interview? I mean, or even just fudge it. We're
talking 75. Yeah, you always say it's the last 75 of the camp. Yeah, it's the one that puts you
You guys have had all kinds of adventures as you're doing this because you've been swimming with
sharks and you've been paragliding. And obviously the earthquake didn't shake you up all that bad
because you camped on the side of an active volcano. Who does that? Yeah. Well, it was on my
bucket list. So the volcano was there, just seemed like the thing to do. That's sort of like bungee
jumping. You know, you jump off, you get to live because the bungee straps will pull you back. And
that's what you're hoping there is you get to camp on the active volcano and live. Is that the
thrill? I wouldn't bungee jump, that's for sure. Wait a second, Paul, you're camping on the side
of an active volcano and you think bungee jumping is worse? Well, we camped on the side where there
was a bit of grass. So we were told that if the volcano was to erupt and it had done frequently,
that it throws the rocks the other way. So I was comfortable with that. Who told you that?
The guy selling the tours. Yeah, that was a very interesting experience. Paul and I have been
doing some volunteering with the Muscoca Foundation and we were chosen as Catalyst Travelers and we've
been volunteering throughout Latin America, basically from Mexico downwards with some partner
organisations. And one of the partners was this tour company in Nicaragua and they did
various things. And one of the things they did was these hikes up the volcano and camping on the
side of the volcano. So it was part of our, you know, working with them, getting to know them.
It was the most spectacular, spectacular experience, you know, sitting around the campfire and just
hearing that roar of the volcano, constant, constant roar. It's like the roar of the ocean when huge
waves crash on rocks, but it doesn't stop. It's just constant. And, you know, a couple of times
through the evening, Paul and I would just walk away from the campfire and just stand there in
absolute awe because, you know, in the moonlight we could just see the silhouette and just,
we didn't even speak. We just stood there taking it all in. And next morning we hiked up to one of
the sort of mountains close by and looked down on it or back at it. It was just magical, absolutely
magical. How have your bikes been over this 40,000 kilometers? Pretty good. Like, you know,
I'm not going to do any advertisements for BMW here, but they've been fantastic. They've been
spectacular really. We had, just had wheel bearings go, which ironically was kind of good in a way.
It's a bit of a long story with a lot of shaggy dogs in it, but fundamentally we ended up going
back to Guatemala City on our first run into Guatemala City. We bumped into a chap who was
turned out to be the president of the Guatemalan BMW Club. And he pulled us over on the side of
the road as he was riding through town. He said, oh, I'm Ricardo. I'm the president of the BMW
Club in Guatemala. Welcome to Guatemala. And if there's anything unique, give me a call.
So we ended up actually calling him because the wheel bearings went on Marina's bike.
And when we got back to Guatemala City, he called in a few favors and got our bikes,
got the bike back up and fixed on a Friday afternoon at five o'clock in the afternoon. And
an hour later, they'd all rallied around and fixed it, which was fabulous. Having learned the lesson
of the wheel bearings, I then bought some spares. And in Colombia, in a slightly less organized
fashion, some American friends banged my wheel bearings out with a hammer.
We just whacked them back in with a hammer and new ones back in with a hammer and off we went.
So it was an interesting lesson to learn, one, the game the Ubuntu of being helped on the side
of the road twice. So that was good. But now I do know how to change a wheel bearing, so I'm happy
with it. How far have you, like with the 40,000 kilometers, what have you done? You've done the
Americas and where? We did. So we went from British Columbia all the way down the west coast of the
USA, all the way down to the bottom of the Baja in California, in Mexico, California, and then
across to Mexico, across to not quite to the Yucatan because it was very hot there, but we
went across to Belize, through Belize, all the way down through Central America, so Guatemala,
El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, which is where the volcano was, Costa Rica, and then Panama.
And then when we got to the end of Panama, there's no road there. You can't get across
the Darien Gap to Colombia. So the standard way of getting there is either to fly or to get on a
boat. So we put the bikes on the deck of an old fishing trawler that had been turned into a sort
of a touristy transit yacht, if you like. The Stahlrat. The Stahlrat. Although some people
called it Ludwig, some people called it the Stahlruster. That was an amazing experience.
I don't think Stahlrat is actually written out with RAT at the end. It means steel,
it means steel rat in German. So I think someone's having a joke, but it used to be an old fishing
boat. And yeah, frankly, I think there is still remnants of fish in there. But that was great
fun. And we got across to Colombia, and then we did Colombia and Ecuador and Peru and Chile,
halfway through Chile before the weather began to threaten us with a chilly weather. So then we
quit and came across to South Africa. And the bikes, well, actually the bikes are in
the shipping agent's backyard at the moment next to his swimming pool. So we're hoping that he's
going to put them all in the crate and send them on for us. And you were in the Andes, I think,
and you had an incident, you had dealt with a hailstorm? Yes, we were trying to go to a canyon.
There's a canyon in Peru called Culca Canyon, which is very spectacular. And if anybody's
in that area, I highly recommend it. It's twice as deep as the Grand Canyon. It's 3,420 meters deep,
which is pretty spectacular to look at. But in order to get there, you've got to go through
this mountain range. And as we were on our way through, there was a downburst in temperature,
the temperature plummeted and it started to rain, rain turned to hail.
Yeah, two degrees Celsius. And the next thing you know, we're stuck in the hail. So for some
reason, there was a guy on the side of the road. I don't even know what he was doing there. There's
some kind of testing station or roadworks or something. And he was just looking at us curiously,
wondering what on earth these gringos are doing in this hailstorm. But we sat in his hut for a
little while and put some warmer clothes on and decided that we'd have to abandon the bikes where
they were and get a ride into town. So Marina hailed down this somewhat crazy local ambulance
driver. Oh, so my, my, we were at an altitude of 4,300 meters. And, you know, at two degrees
Celsius with the howling wind, I mean, we were very quickly succumbing to hypothermia. And
yeah, it was a case of what do we do? Do we stand the bikes, keep them running with our,
you know, electric jackets on? What do we do? Long story short, decided to abandon the bikes.
And my job was to hail the next vehicle, which happened to be an ambulance. Well,
I thought we were going to die in the ambulance. Because I was lying on the stretcher and my,
my extremities were aching from the cold. Paul was sat upright next to me with eyes the size of
saucers. And we could just hear the wheels screaming around those corners. And for anyone who's crossed
the Andes, it's switched backs and hairpin bends and steep inclines. It's, it's quite insane.
So I said, I wouldn't bungee jump. I wouldn't go on a premium ambulance.
And we saw a five car pile up in the snow. You know, it was, and I kept saying,
Señor, más peligroso, you know, sir, it's very dangerous. And he just laughed,
you know, like a raving lunatic and just carried on driving.
He's on his phone. Anyway, we love to tell that tale, but we sort of became celebrities in the
little town because by the morning news had spread that there were these bikers, you know,
who got caught in the storm. And again, you know, people were just incredible helping us get back
to the bikes once the weather had cleared, wanting to take photos with us, wanting to take photos of
the bikes. And, you know, wherever we went in the little town, it was just, you know,
we were like mini celebrities. There were two vehicles turned up on their roofs. You know,
it was, I was terrified. But the lesson I took from that experience is that
we could work together very well in a crisis moment. And we made decisions quickly enough.
And we just lived with the decision. So, yeah, that was quite insane.
That's the reason we actually decided to put a can our trip mid in the middle of Chile and come
to Europe for the summer. We decided that the potential for going further south
during the early winter period was risky. And then we didn't need to do it because
as I alluded to earlier, you know, you're on your own journey, you don't need to go all the way down
to the south and risk life and limb to get the picture of a penguin. So we really struggled
with the altitude and, you know, crossing the Andes. You know, the Andes started in Colombia.
And from the border into Ecuador, we started to really struggle with altitude. And I think,
you know, we were never really in a place long enough to truly acclimatize.
You know, the highest we rode was 4,800 kilometers, kilometers meters.
It felt like kilometers. And the highest we hiked was five, just over 5,000,
which is more or less ever a space camp. And yeah, it didn't feel good. And we just never felt
like we were coping with the altitude. So we pretty much had enough of being at altitude
by the time we got to Santiago. It's knowing when to quit sometimes, isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, one thing that we have realized is, you know, we joke about our journey
as granny and grandpa's gap here, because we just, we just out there to have some fun
within the boundaries of risk that we are comfortable with. And, you know,
I mean, it's wonderful what some people do. And it's incredible what some people do and what
some people risk. But it's not us. And we're okay with that. And we've learned that along the way.
We've talked a lot to each other about, you know, what kind of risk am I comfortable with
and what kind of risk is Paul comfortable with. And, you know, it's not always the same,
which means we then have to talk it through and, you know, reach a compromise. But
at the end of the day, for us, it's about having fun and staying safe. And, you know, so far so good.
You've had your challenges with finding your way. I know you use a GPS and the GPS has actually
been the source of your, your first arguments. That's right. So just talk about the using,
using the GPS. And I think you need to start to be fair. You need to start at the fact that
I'm Paul wasn't doing that. Well, was he, Marina, you were, you were sort of jabbing at him, you
know, telling him that he just pointing things out. That's right. So Paul just looked at Billy
and he said, you answer this. So we had never argued until we started this journey. And I was
quite taken aback. I mean, having my first argument and Paul had jokingly said before we
started this journey, it's either going to be the longest honeymoon or the shortest marriage. So
I've done everything in my power to make sure it's the longest honeymoon. But yeah, our arguments
were just about getting lost and what's happening? What do you mean by getting lost? So Paul's in
charge. Paul's in charge. He's got the GPS and I'm following and I can read the road signs and the
GPS doesn't always correlate with what the road signs are saying. So I would point this out and,
you know, we'd have our argument and just drive off that way. Anyway, it reached a point where
Paul said to me, why don't you have a go? Why don't you navigate? And I rose to the challenge. And
at that point in time, we were staying in Washington state in the United States in a town called Long
View. And we had planned a four hour ride down to the coast. I think Prudhoe Bay or somewhere like
that. And I said to Paul, no, GPS is no good. I'm going to look at a map, figure out where we're
going and we head off. So we knew the trip was going to take about four hours from Long View to
where we were going. And I kid you not, it was about three hours 58. And we were coming up this rise
and Paul said to me, so we have center intercoms. And in the intercom, I can hear Paul saying to me,
I'm in the lead. Oh, it's nearly four hours. We must be nearly there. And before I could even respond,
we sort of crested the rise and there was this big banner saying, welcome to Long View.
The place you just left. The place we had just left four hours ago. And I won't repeat on radio
what Paul's words were. Well, I just, I was just flawed and needless to say, I do not
offer to navigate anymore. I said to Morena, why don't you have the navigator since you're clearly
the expert? We're upon later on, I realized that she's so short-sighted, she can't even read it
anyway. So it turns out Morena couldn't have seen the GPS, even if it was in front of us,
which is another point I make quite periodically. Having said that, we did go somewhere else where
the GPS took us down a dirt track and caused us to end up in farmland with no roads and
took us three hours to do 20 kilometers in red, red clay, wet dirt and mud and just
generally swearing and many falls what have you said? I don't know,
you just have to learn to use what tools you have and perhaps not rely on them so much,
but also accept that they do get you to where you're going. Yeah, and with that particular
experience that Paul was talking about, we kept thinking, you know, there's a bike has just come
from the front, you know, a local on a little bike has just come along this road. It must be a road
and we've learned not to take that as a given that this is actually a road that can be
navigated with a big BFW, that's for sure. Couldn't have been navigating with a goat.
It always reminds me of myself and my wife being on a trail and people were coming the other way
and it was supposed to be a one-way trail and I said, see, it can't be so bad and just as we
passed the last group of them, I realized, oh, they're turning around at the top and we were
going down. So it was quite the thing, but this navigation experience that you guys had with the
GPS that sort of brought up at least an answer to any time there's a conflict where Paul's
trying to say, you know, we have to go here and so what happens then? Well, the minute there's
any arguments, he just looks at me and he says, long view and then I just keep quiet. It's just
something you will never, ever live down. Because also, you know, I said, it does get you to where
you're going, even if you disagree with it. And I did say to Moraine, like, in the end, you just
have to pick one source of truth, right? And you have to decide that you're going to follow it,
whether you think it's right or you think it's wrong. Otherwise, you've got two sources of truth
and at least one of them is going to be wrong, right? Technology, once we depend on it or forget
about it, as a matter of fact, because you also had an experience with technology laying in a hammock
in Belize. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was, was quite an interesting moment. We were at
a dinner party recently and I was quite horrified that Paul told the story and I'm about to tell it
on radio. Don't worry. I won't tell anyone. You just go ahead. So we were in Belize and in the jungle,
staying at a jungle lodge and it was insanely hot and we'd been swimming and I was wearing
nothing except my sarong and I was lying in a hammock and we had a very private cabin in the
jungle and I just have this mist of a streak that comes out every now and again and I did a little
bit of show and tell, you know, in a private moment with my husband and we suddenly heard a member
of staff approach and I covered up and he walked straight past me, reached up to a security camera
that was mounted on the deck above me in the hammock, which I didn't know was there and to this
day we don't know if he was positioning the camera to see more or positioning it to see less.
But when Paul told the story at the dinner party, I mean, there was Walker's laughter,
but someone did say to me, you know, you can't run for president, right? It's bound to come out.
Well, that's why I mentioned I saw the video on the internet and I thought, boy, that's too much.
Yeah, we just could not believe it. Although probably you can run for president now,
that's probably mandatory. But you guys took some technology with you as well. You took a drone and
obviously you were hoping to capture lots of video. How did the drone work out?
Well, the drone's a long story. We took the drone with the best intentions that we were
going to do some very romantic shots of us riding the bike someplace and people do
nice panoramic views of canyons and sunsets and stuff. So we thought, well, that sounds like a
great idea. We had some technical problems with the drone, which took a little bit of time to work
out with some batteries and other such problems. But basically we got the drone to work. I took
the drone out and said, well, okay, let's try this, our first panoramic shoot of following the
bikes down the road. I fly the drone in the air and turn around and well, the drone's still flying.
The drone's gone. It flew off. So your drone abandoned you? It did. It basically just turned
around and went, yeah, stuff you haven't had here. It's the first opportunity to escape.
And it was gone and we spent a bit of time trying to find it. But yeah, it's,
we lost it. So I didn't get to use it at all. Does it make you think differently about technology,
about taking it? Because, I mean, everybody's doing this nowadays. We want to capture our
trips and I do it too. You know, I'll take a camera with me. But I often find it's more of a
pain in the butt to even bother trying to film anything than what you're getting out of it in
the long run. It sort of affects your trip. We have to, we have conflicting views on this.
My view is that I see a lot of people standing behind their camera and just not taking in what
they're doing. You know, they're just, I mean, I think a classic is when you see people at rock
concerts and they're recording the thing that they're there to see on a device and they're never
the opportunity to be and enjoy where they were. They've actually done and got and recorded something
they're never going to see. And so I'm a believer that an experience is more than just the moment
you capture in time. It's all about how you feel, what you smell, what's going on around you. And so
I'm sort of like, I don't want to take a picture. I don't want to take a picture of something. I
just want to sit and smell and enjoy and listen and all those things. Whereas Moraine is much more
of a moment in time kind of one. I'm going to capture this moment because if we don't then
we won't remember. No, no, no, no, no. So we, we, we have one more photograph. I mean, photography
is one of my, my main hobbies. And so as a photographer to go to these incredible places,
to see incredible faces. So portrait photography is really my, my main passion. And I, being able
to capture beautiful faces or, you know, it's just, I keep saying to Paul, when you're, when you
grow up and, and you're a photographer, you'll understand. But, you know, we've, we've settled
that, you know, we just have different views. But, you know, I do take what Paul says. And
there's a lot of truth in that because, you know, it is about being present in the moment. But for
me, it is about capturing that as well. And our home will be covered with magnificent photographs
when we get back. I'm sure. None of, none, no photographs taken by me. Yeah. I rarely even
carry this. I don't carry a camera around. So it's not something I do. I just watch with amusement
as I, as I see other people do it. But I can see the point, Marina, because what you're doing is
you're not so much capturing the moment. So you can post it on social media or show your friends
you capture the moment because that's an opportunity for you to capture an amazing photo. I mean,
I get that. But, and also even for reflecting back, I mean, I know I have memories from when I was a
kid that I think are generated from the photos that I have of that time period and other things
I completely forget. So, so that's a valid point too. I mean, there's a balance in there.
Yes. Well, we talk about the middle way. We talk about the middle way a lot.
So the middle way is like, you know, not trying to push yourself from one extreme to another,
you know, it's like, I'd like New Year's rev resolutions where people say, I'm going to go on
a diet this year. And they don't because they're not following the middle path. They're not saying,
oh, well, I'll just go halfway along this journey because that will get me where I want to go
without all of the pain and suffering that goes along with it. And so, I guess you might call
it a compromise, but I just call it the middle way. And that's what you use for travel?
Yes. Yeah, we try and always find the middle way because, you know, if you know, we've just
learned doing anything in extremes, you know, so for example, we haven't been extreme with our
budgeting. So we haven't gone extremely cheap and we haven't gone extremely over the top.
You know, that's just one example. We try and find the middle road because it's,
it's probably more manageable or more feasible. It's less stressful,
more likely to, you know, bring pleasure in the long run because extremes are just not,
you know, easy to maintain in any way. Have you been camping or staying in hotels and things?
A bit of everything. So we camped in the United States and we love camping. We love the outdoors.
We decided not to camp once we left the United States because we'd heard that
accommodation was so cheap, you know, from Mexico down. But we, you know, so we've camped, we've
stayed in BMBs. We've stayed in hostels. We've done couch surfing. We've had some
Haltex experiences, you know, where we've worked for board and lodge.
Slept on the floor. Yeah, slept on a floor. We've slept on the deck of a ship. You name it. You
know, it's been a bit of everything. And yeah, so again, it's just the middle road. We haven't
said, okay, we're only doing this or we're only doing that. We've sort of done a little bit of
everything. I think the main thing for us has been wherever we stay is making sure the bikes are
safe. And that's sort of been more our guide. Will the bikes be safe if we stay in XYZ place?
And you're not that fussed about the accommodations themselves?
No, no. Thomas the shower's got water coming out.
You stated a BMB in Canada, I know, and you thought that that was rather special.
Yeah, so as mentioned, when we got to Canada, we had these great grand ideas of getting to Alaska.
And our plans were scuppered by the extreme winter or snow heading north. So the roads
were just not possible heading north. And so we ended up staying at a particular BMB
for much longer than planned. And we were just hoping the weather would clear.
And getting more and more despondent by the day or by the week. And until one day,
our host arrived with a really, really thoughtful gift. Some homegrown weed
beautifully rolled into a joint sealed in some tin foil and beautifully packaged in a little
matchbox with matches. And, you know, in his beautiful French accent, this is for you.
And whenever we're in a BMB or hotel and we see the chocolates on the pillow, we just shake our
heads and we think back to that particular time in Canada and we think our hosts could do much
better. That was certainly the most interesting thing we'd ever been gifted by far. You mentioned
getting more and more despondent there. And I was going to ask is, do you find travel itself
stressful or is there an element of stress that you find while you're traveling? Not any more.
I don't. I would say yes. But it's not constant. You know, there are moments of stress.
One thing we learned is that if we have deadlines, we find them stressful.
Would you agree, love? Yeah, I don't like the plans and the deadlines. Like just be just just
roll by the days. What kind of deadlines? Oh, if you've got to take a flight or
you've got to be in a certain place by a certain day. You've agreed to meet somebody, you know,
on, you know, so let's meet up next Thursday at this place or something. And you're like, oh, well,
now we've got to, you know, now we've got to arrange our time around, you know, making that
down appointment. And it's like, I mean, you have to do that occasionally, but to try and avoid it
creates less stress, I believe. You know, just trying to say, well, we'll be there, we won't,
or we've got to get a flight tomorrow, we'll just go to the airport and buy a ticket, right?
So we've preferred to be more relaxed and, you know, less set in our ways. And, you know, we're
quite protective now of not making too many plans. But sure, there are stresses because,
you know, things happen along the way, you know, hail storms or earthquakes. So there are definitely
stressful moments. But we travel slowly. We try not to have extremely long days. I think our longest
day was about 14 hours of riding, crossing four borders in one day and riding at night. And we
broke all our own rules, you know, on that particular occasion. So, you know, we learned that you can
create stress by just how you plan to travel or don't plan to travel. So we tend to get up early,
ride for X number of hours and then make sure we find accommodation with sufficient daylight
hours so that if something was to happen, you know, we're not stuck in the dark as an example. So,
yeah, it's very much granny and grandpa's gap year. We don't look for stress.
You've said gap year several times now, but you've already passed the year.
Yeah, yeah. So it's going to be gap year. Yeah, just gap.
Do you find that there's a, do you have any difficulty not committing, you're saying you're
trying to commit less to meet someone or do those sorts of things? Does it not make you appear aloof
to them? And how do you handle that? We haven't really, I think I'm trying to think of some examples
where, for example, we were travelling with some bikers who preferred to sleep late and travel late
and, you know, with all respect, had a number of days where they were running into trouble,
getting lost in the dark, etc. And, you know, I respectfully said, hey guys, we'll see you at
point X or point Y. Our preference is to travel early. And I think, I think honesty goes a long
way. You know, you need to be true to yourself without being disrespectful, because I think
knowing myself, if I put myself through that of waiting for someone and then running into trouble,
I think there would be more disrespectful overall. I think it's just the way in which
you communicate. And I think bikers know we're all different. We're all on a similar journey,
but we're all on our own journey. And you've got to understand what that means for yourself. And
I believe you've got to be true to what that is for yourself. Otherwise, it's not fun for you.
And I don't think it'll be fun for anyone else. So I don't think, well, I certainly hope that
that we've never offended anyone. And we've traveled with a number of different bikers at
different times and we've had amazing fun. Hey, we're not going to meet them again anyway.
Now you will for sure. Yeah. So big lessons, big lessons that you've learned on this trip so far.
Not to plan too much. That's my, that's my main thing. My main thing has been,
you know, you don't have to, it's not like you have to be aloof to and say to people,
I'll be there if I feel like it. It's kind of like, you know, let's not overplan it.
Let's get together. Let's do this. Let's do that. If you're going to take an airplane flight or
somewhere, you don't need to go, I'm going to plan step one, step two. You don't need to say,
let's go to the airport. Let's get on a plane. Then the bus will be waiting for us. Then we've got
another flight. Then we're going to be here. Then we're going to be there. Then we're going to meet
somebody, blah, blah, blah. Just do the first thing, you know, just get on the plane and go to
the next place. And then when you get there, have a cup of coffee and go, right, I guess we better
find a bus, right? It's, you know, that you can be that way, right? It doesn't suit everyone because
lots of people like to plan. But I've realized that planning, sort of like, I don't know,
it takes a little bit of, it takes a lot away from your journey, I think. I was saying to Morena
earlier, I met a guy many years ago, who would go on holiday by throwing a dart into the map of
Australia. And he said that wherever the dart landed, he would just take his campervan, and
that's where he was going. And he did this, and he would only do it a couple of days before he left,
he would basically go right and leaving tomorrow, he throw the dart in there, and that's where he'd
go. And he told me he spent three weeks on a on a station out in the middle of Australia with all
these like ranch hands who wondered what on earth he was doing turned up in his campervan,
and he said he had the best holiday of his life. Unplanned, unstructured, just go somewhere and
see what happens. And, you know, I think to myself, you know, if I was working in a job and I said,
hey, let's take two weeks off, where should we go? Like, you know, decide the day before, like,
pick a name, pick a country out of a hat and just go to the airport. It's, it's, it seems like more
fun, right? So that's what I learned. For me, it's the biggest lesson or the biggest aha moment for
me is just one kilometer at a time. If I think back to how I sobbed my heart out when Paul bought
that massive bike and asked me to travel around the world to where I am now, you know, I remember
meeting a beautiful lady in the States who who traveled on her own and I said to her, how do
you do that? You know, and she she looked at me and she said, this was clear. She's looked at me,
she said, Raina, one kilometer at a time. And that has really stuck with me. And that's really
resonated with me because, you know, one kilometer at a time, I've put 40,000 on the clock. And,
you know, it's a good feeling, but I will always carry that with me as a lesson for my life.
You know, it's not just about motorcycling. It's just about whatever it is that we,
you know, we look to do that seems impossible or seems really big.
Um, A, you've got to start and then B, just one kilometer at a time, one step at a time.
You plan the year you're continuing on now past the year. Why?
Then we're feeding the cookie monster.
Oh, no, we just don't want to go home.
Too much fun. You don't want to go home. Have you guys changed? Are you different people now?
Is that what's keeping you on the road? One thing I said about this kind of thing is, I think
it's possible to acknowledge that, you know, you might go on a journey like this with an expectation
that you're going to change. And I did say, or I did consider the possibility that you may actually
go back and find yourself not changed at all, which would be a reflection of who you were before
you left, right? So will we have changed? I think there'll be some fundamental, just some, some
things that have changed about me in terms of how I see the world. I guess that whether I'd
be like enormously changed, I don't know. I think I'll probably just take what I've learned and apply
it to, you know, the real world that everyone else lives in for the time being. And so it goes.
Yeah. I mean, when we, when we started to plan this journey, you know, one of my fears was,
you know, I was really happy with the life we had us at a height of my career.
You know, there was so much happening. And I had a big fear of how do I step away from something
that I'm really happy with? And, you know, what if I'm on the road for a couple of weeks or months
and I'm really unhappy? And, you know, so we had an agreement that if at any stage we were unhappy,
we could come back. So if that was three months or six months, we could come back. It's not a
failure. And the opposite has actually happened where we are having such a good time that we
don't feel it's time yet. Time will come. Paul, Paul's daughter is having a baby. So our first
grandchild is on her way shortly. Congratulations. So it's tough being away at a time like this.
You know, we can't share, you know, her joy of, of, of, you know, preparing for motherhood and we
can't, you know, be there physically. So there is a big draw to go back. And we don't know when that
day will be. And I think, you know, we've, we've just learned to be open. That day might be next
month where we say, Hey, we want to go back. It may be, it may be another year, maybe whatever.
So I think we're quite loose. The way we're quite loose with our planning, we're quite loose about
for how long we want to travel. No plans. If you don't have plans, if you say we're going to go back
in six months, that will just mess up the next six months. You know, if you said, oh, I'm going to
go home, I booked an airplane ticket to leave on the seventh of October or something, then your
whole life would be fixated around that moment. And then you'd have to back plan and go, okay,
well, we've got six months, let's go here, let's go there, let's rush this, let's do that. It's like,
you know, you asked me whether I'd learn anything or whether I change. Well, one of the things I've
changed is I'm not going to do that, right? So it's like the day will come when the day is tomorrow,
like, and whenever that occurs, I guess we'll wake up to that day. And you know, one thing we are
able to do is be, be brutally honest with each other. And it may not be the same for for us,
you know, at that moment in time, but it hasn't happened yet. So who knows.
When Paul's leading with the GPS, and you know that you know a better way, and Paul knows you're
wrong. How do you, how do you start out your arguments? Do you have a way of dealing with that?
I just keep quiet now. I just think about long be.
Well, I'm using that just as a metaphor. But I mean, you know, in general, for arguments,
I mean, because it's tough traveling as a couple. I mean, I know that. And you're with
each other all the time, all the stresses on the both of you and you tend to lash out at the
ones you love because you're you're confident that they're going to be there no matter how you act.
It's possible that, you know, I'm just thinking about the, you know, you ask about change and
about how you reflect on things. It may well be that it's possible that the GPS was just a focal
point for stresses of initially trying to go out and doing something crazy like this, or whether
that we would have had stresses learning about each other's characters and understanding how
we deal with stress points and things like that. And it may well be less to do with the GPS and
more just to do with the evolution of our relationship. And we have a good strategy.
Yeah, you just agree with me.
No, sorry to interrupt. We have a very good strategy. And it's actually a strategy that Paul
created. And it goes like this, whenever you really irritate me, I just focus on all the
things I really, really, really love about you. And then it's okay. Well, that's good. I like that.
That's fine. I think that the truth is we've probably grown more accustomed to each other,
which I think is a good thing because it allows us to, you know, there are things,
there are always things about people that get under your skin. It's just the nature of humanity.
Right. And I think if you don't have the opportunity to, to fully confront and explore those things,
then there's a good possibility they'll just chew away at you for all the time that you're in a
relationship. So I think it's good that you can argue and you can be pulled up and called to
account with your character flaws and allow yourself the opportunity to be called out, I guess,
because that's a growing experience, you know, and sometimes Moraine is in traffic now and she's
yelling expletives at the drivers and I'm like, just don't have a care in the world. And I don't
somewhat agitated by the mood that she was in. Now I just ignore her.
So, you know, that's because she wants me to ignore her. I just go, she's a big girl. She
worked out for herself. Yeah, we've certainly learned so much about each other and, and we've
learned so much about ourselves, you know, and I'm just grateful that we've created a safe space
in which that can all happen because yeah, it's tough being together 24 seven
for more than 365 days now. Yeah, sounds sounds really long when you say that.
You're sitting in South Africa now. What's the plans?
We're leaving in a couple of days going to Madrid. We've been here for about a month. So
Moraine has been taking me around showing me all of her friends. We've been drinking a lot of wine
and eating too much barbecue food. And I've been shown lions and elephants and other such
African things. And now there's a paella and some flamenco with my name on it.
Yeah, so we fly out to Madrid the day after tomorrow and our motorcycles will join us there.
And we continue our journey. So all we know is we want to head towards Morocco
and try and get the best of Morocco while the weather before the weather gets too hot and then,
you know, the rest of Europe for summer. Beyond that, we don't know.
What advice or maybe I should say tips would you have for other people considering a trip?
Don't pack too much just in case stuff. Because I think there is a, I think people tend to think
that we don't live in a world where you can't just buy things on the corner store, you know, like
you know, somebody said to me and I had a toolkit and somebody said to me, you know,
there's nothing on that bike you can fix with that toolkit. You know, like if the motor stops,
you can't fix anything with an Allen key and a smile, right? And I was thinking, yeah, okay,
so now I'm carrying two kilos of toolkit that simply serves no purpose. And even if I did need
a spanner for something, I'd ride 50 meters in any direction in any country and probably find
somebody who can get me a spanner. You know, I like it. I think that's the tip. It's like try and be
as lightweight as you can. I mean, I hardly wear any clothes and Moreno is always nagging me because
I've got one pair of pants and I love to wear these pants all the time. And I don't really
care if they get a bit dirty, but I get nagged to have to take them off and wash them.
So what do you do? You stand with a towel wrapped around you in the laundry mat while
you're washing your pants? Pretty much wash them in the shower. Yeah. I mean, I would second Paul's
advice, you know, we did pack way too much and, you know, bear grills and MacGyver and all those
guys, you know, none of that actually happens in real life. So we don't need to emulate them and
expect, you know, major catastrophe around every corner and have every single piece of equipment
or tool or whatever. Yeah, and the world is a very, very small place. It's a tiny, tiny place.
It's not a big, dangerous place at all. You know, people are close by help is close by.
I'd say that's probably the best advice we could give us is don't pack too much.
Marina, Paul, thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank you so much for inviting us.
It's been awesome. All the best.
That was Paul Nibs and Marina Matthews, sort of in the middle of their adventure.
This episode was brought to you in part by Green Chili Adventure Gear at GreenChiliADV.com,
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Thank you to our producer, Elizabeth Martin. My name is Jim Martin. Thank you so much for
listening and I will talk to you next week. I am Sterling Noreen and you're listening to Adventure Rider Radio.
About this episode
Saying yes to the unknown is the thread tying together rider mishaps, gear choices, and mindset shifts. The hosts revisit Marina Matthew’s awkward license-test start—dropping the bike and asking for help—then connect it to a “just say yes” turning point with Paul, complete with two BMW F 700 GS motorcycles. Long-distance travel becomes a people-first, day-by-day practice: avoid overplanning, plan for daylight, and trust community. They also share practical comfort and reliability tips like the Atlas throttle lock and real-world GPS lessons.
Original notes
As we celebrate 12 years of Adventure Rider Radio motorcycle podcast, we're bringing back a story that still resonates today. Drawn together by motorcycles and a shared curiosity about the world, Maryna Matthew and Paul Knibbs left behind the security of established careers to pursue a life of adventure. Their journey is a powerful reminder that some of life's greatest opportunities begin with a single decision: to stop waiting and simply say yes.
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About the Podcast
Since 2014, Adventure Rider Radio has shared adventure motorcycle travel stories, Rider Skills, Deep Trouble episodes, tech and gear features, and conversations with riders from around the world. New episodes of ARR are released every Thursday, with new episodes of RAW released monthly on the 21st.
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