Luft 11 Porsche Show | Forged, Mag vs Carbon Wheels Explained | Real vs Fake Ferrari Debate
Full Throttle Talk
Luft 11 Porsche Show | Forged, Mag vs Carbon Wheels Explained | Real vs Fake Ferrari Debate
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Concept
carbon fiber wheels
Carbon fiber wheels are made from a special lightweight material that is very strong. They are often used in racing and high-performance cars to help them go faster and handle better, but they can be quite pricey.
Concept
magnesium wheels
Magnesium wheels are very light and strong, which makes them great for racing cars. They can be more expensive and need special care to keep them from rusting.
Concept
forged wheels
Forged wheels are made from a single piece of metal, which makes them stronger and lighter than regular wheels. They are often used in sports cars because they help improve performance.
Concept
cast wheels
Cast wheels are made by pouring hot metal into a mold to create the shape of the wheel. They are usually heavier and not as strong as forged wheels, but they are cheaper to make.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a small sports car that you can drive with the top down, like a convertible. It's loved for how fun it is to drive and how well it handles on the road.
Company
Sonderworks
Sonderworks is a car shop in North Carolina that makes custom cars and offers special services for car enthusiasts.
Car
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL
The Mercedes-Benz 300 SL is a famous old sports car that has unique doors that open upwards. It's very popular among car collectors.
Car
Ferrari Enzo
The Ferrari Enzo is a very fast and expensive sports car named after the company's founder. It's known for its powerful engine and sleek design.
Car
Porsche Carrera GT
The Porsche Carrera GT is a super-fast sports car made by Porsche. It has a powerful engine and is known for being very fun to drive.
Brand
Lamborghini
Lamborghini is another well-known Italian car brand that makes very flashy and powerful sports cars. They are famous for their unique designs and speed.
Concept
Formula One
Formula One is a type of car racing where very fast cars compete on special tracks. It's known for its exciting races and the advanced technology used in the cars.
Car
Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL
The Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL is a fancy car made by Mercedes-Benz a long time ago. It's known for being stylish and well-built, which makes it popular among collectors now.
Car
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
The Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren is a fast and stylish sports car made by Mercedes-Benz in partnership with McLaren. It's famous for its powerful engine and unique look.
Car
Mercedes-Benz SL
The Mercedes-Benz SL is a stylish convertible car that's both fancy and fast. It's known for being comfortable to drive while also looking great.
Car
Porsche 356
The Porsche 356 is a vintage sports car that many people love to drive. It's known for being fun to handle and is popular at car rallies.
Concept
Mille Miglia
The Mille Miglia is a famous car race in Italy that used to happen a long time ago. Now, it's more of a fun event where classic cars drive the same route as the original race.
Term
Nürburgring
The Nürburgring is a well-known race track in Germany that many car companies use to test their cars. It's famous for being very difficult and has lots of twists and turns.
Term
hypercar class
The hypercar class includes the fastest and most advanced cars that are built for racing and performance.
Concept
Formula E
Formula E is a type of car racing where all the cars are electric. It's held in cities and focuses on promoting electric vehicles and sustainability.
Concept
World Endurance Championship
The World Endurance Championship is a series of car races that last a long time, sometimes up to 24 hours. It includes many different types of cars and is known for famous races like the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
Concept
EVs
EVs, or electric vehicles, are cars that run on electricity instead of gas. They are getting more popular because they are better for the environment and technology has improved a lot.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV that can carry more people and stuff than a regular sports car. It's known for being powerful and fun to drive, even though it's bigger.
Car
Lucid Air
The Lucid Air is a fancy electric car made by Lucid Motors. It's designed to be very efficient and has a lot of high-tech features.
Car
Lucid Gravity
The Lucid Gravity is a new electric SUV that promises to be fancy and fast. It's made by a company that focuses on electric cars and is designed to compete with other luxury electric vehicles.
Car
Mazda Miata
Mazda is a car company that makes different types of cars, and one of their most famous ones is the Miata, which is a small, fun sports car. It's popular because it's light and enjoyable to drive.
Car
Toyota Supra
The Toyota Supra is a fast sports car that people really like because it can be made even faster with upgrades. The new versions are made with help from another car company, BMW, which makes them even better.
Car
BMW 550S
The BMW 5 Series is a nice, comfortable car that's great for driving and has lots of tech features. It's often chosen by people who want a mix of luxury and practicality.
Car
Porsche 550
The Porsche 550 is a classic race car from the 1950s. It's known for being very light and fast, and it has a cool design that many people admire.
Car
Porsche 917
The Porsche 917 is a famous race car from the 60s and 70s that was really fast and won a lot of races. It's considered one of the best race cars ever made.
Car
Porsche 904
The Porsche 904 is a lightweight sports car from the 60s that was made for racing. It's special because it used new materials to help it go faster.
Concept
approachable car displays
Approachable car displays are events where you can get close to the cars and even touch them, unlike other shows where cars are kept behind ropes. This makes it easier for fans to enjoy the cars up close.
Car
Porsche 962
The Porsche 962 is another famous race car that was very successful in endurance racing. It is known for its sleek design and speed.
Concept
Rent Sport
Rent Sport is a car event where people can drive and learn about fast cars, especially from brands like Porsche. It moves around to different racetracks each year.
Car
Porsche Carrera RS
The Porsche Carrera RS is a special, fast version of the Porsche 911 made for racing. It's very popular among collectors because it's lightweight and performs really well.
Company
Maguire Wax
Maguire Wax makes products to help clean and shine cars. Many car lovers use their products to keep their vehicles looking great.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette is a classic American sports car that's been around for a long time. It's famous for being fast and having a cool look, making it a favorite among car lovers.
Concept
Luftgekühlt
Luftgekühlt is a car show in Los Angeles where people gather to admire and celebrate older Porsche cars that run on air-cooled engines. It's a fun event for car lovers to meet and share their passion.
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a small luxury SUV that is fun to drive and has a nice interior. It's a good option if you want something sporty but still need space for passengers and cargo.
Car
Citroen Sm
The Citroen SM is a special luxury car from France made in the 70s. It's known for its unique look and cool technology that was advanced for its time.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a well-known sports car that's been around for many years. It's famous for its unique shape and how well it drives, making it a favorite among people who love cars.
Car
BMW E36
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a super sporty version of a regular BMW car that is really fun to drive. It's made for people who love speed and performance.
Car
Porsche 944
The Porsche 944 is a sports car that was made in the 80s and 90s. It's known for being fun to drive and is usually less expensive than other Porsches.
Car
Porsche 914
The Porsche 914 is a small sports car that was made a long time ago and is known for being fun to drive. It's different from other Porsches because it's usually less expensive.
Car
Toyota Land Cruiser
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a tough SUV that can go off-road and handle rough terrain. It's known for being very reliable and lasting a long time.
Car
Ford Mustang
The Ford Mustang is a classic American car that's known for being fast and powerful. It's loved by many people for its cool look and fun driving experience.
Car
Ferrari 1952 Ferrari
The Ferrari 195 S is a beautiful sports car from the 1950s that's known for being fast and stylish. It's a rare car that shows off Ferrari's history in racing.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a super-fast version of a regular BMW car that combines luxury with speed. It's made for people who want a fancy car that can also go really fast.
Car
Dodge Charger
Car
BMW 740I
The BMW 7 Series is a really fancy car that's big and comfortable inside. It's made for people who want a luxurious ride with lots of high-tech features.
LIVE
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horse power meets conversation from
supercars to classic legends, high-revving tech to motorsport mayhem.
We covered all.
Straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gearhead or racer, or just love the
thrill of the open road, you're in the right place.
Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.
Welcome back, it's Tim Harris with the guys, and this is, of course, Full Throttle Talk.
We have got an absolutely intense show for all of you today.
We are going to be talking, frankly, a lot about LUFT.
We have eight different topics that we're going to focus on.
LUFT is topic three, and I have a feeling we will not get to any topics beyond topic
three.
But with that said, if we get past the LUFT conversation, we're going to be talking about
different kinds of wheels, cast wheels, forged wheels, carbon fiber wheels, magnesium wheels.
And I have to say, in doing the research for that topic, I learned a lot, especially about
magnesium wheels, which I didn't know.
We're going to have, hopefully, an interesting conversation about really what makes something
essentially real and authentic versus a tribute, or maybe even fake.
We'll probably not talk about the 780 or the new, the Spider Boxster EV replacement thing.
We have a great this or that, where we're going to be showing you two different cars,
and we're going to decide, and you're going to help us decide which one you choose,
one or the other.
And then we also have a few really good listener questions.
So without any further delay, let's start out with our usual question.
Mr. Van Epps, what did you do in cars this week?
I'm recovering still, Tim, from this week in cars.
It was one hell of a week, and starting with the event that I attended just prior to LUFT,
which was Target Carolina, I believe the 10th edition of Target Carolina.
So one year younger than LUFT, but the image I have behind me, this was the largest.
It's held at Little Switzerland, North Carolina.
That's where it's been for the last few years, and I'll cover this camera up so you guys can see.
This is kind of part of the group that was there to listen to the fearless leader,
Mr. Charles Stanley, there standing up on the wall, giving us our drivers meeting before the
day was to begin.
So this is really a two-day driving event that starts in Little Switzerland and then drives
out probably 200 miles, 200, 300 miles a day that we go out to a lunch destination someplace,
and then back to Little Switzerland for the evening.
And it was fantastic.
It really was.
Let me see if I can pull up here.
Let's do this.
There we go.
You know you're driving Paul crazy talking about a rally, right?
He's sweating.
Precisely, but I think we know he's been cleared now to go to his next one,
even though he's driving some mommy wagon or something, I'm not sure.
But this was kind of the lineup.
About 110 cars or so that were there at this at the start in four different groups.
So we ripped out in that particular morning to rain the night before,
so we had to go a little slow on the first morning just as the roads dried out.
Did everybody make it?
Did any of those cars decide to take a hiatus during the sojourn?
Listen, there were several mechanical issues, of course.
And this year in particular, like my group, I led a group out when I called in last week
from the start of that group, led that group out.
And I think by the time at the front end of the event, I started with 10 cars.
By the end of the event on day two, we were down to three.
I'm not sure if that's some function of my driving or that we just had,
you know, we had, we just had a good, I mean, seriously, we had a good time,
but people move off into different groups and so on.
And some people don't want to go as fast.
And, you know, it's just, it's just one of those things.
We had a terrific time.
I know I certainly enjoyed it.
And there we go.
I'm coming back into focus here slightly.
Really, really nice group of people.
And we kind of renew every year, and that's kind of the nice thing.
Everybody gets together for this and a couple of other events that we have on an annual basis.
And then we're driving these mountains.
You get to know these roads.
A few people had some little minor skirmishes, myself included,
but we won't dial into that too deeply.
Nothing that you don't expect.
Wait, I want to dial in.
Where'd you wreck?
I know.
What happened to Blackbody?
What traffic violation did you get?
What livestock did you get?
I got the front end of my car a little kissed as we were transitioning from some
asphalt roads to a gravel road, which came up on me a little unexpectedly.
And the car got a little, you know, the front got kissed a little bit as it slightly went off.
Translated.
That's okay. I was able to drive.
You ran out of town.
I was able to drive the car for the rest of the day.
And we continued to rip it up.
It was good.
Can we see a photo?
No, we can't.
Come on.
I want to see.
It's a little photo here, Paul.
I promise I might show you a photo offline, but I do want to know.
So how many of these have you done, Paul, over the years?
I was just telling the doc to this because he thought it was a new thing.
I would say in the last 25 years, over 100.
We're talking about rallies.
We're talking about rallies.
Rallys, viewers and listeners.
Correct.
Bibing rallies with hard times.
So, you know, by the way, we call it rallies because that's sort of the
colloquialism with our little guys into it.
For the average person, like my doctor, I could not call it a rally because then he
turned rally into when are you going to be doing the race?
It's basically, I keep telling people, it's a vintage car tour.
That's what we're doing.
We're doing a tour on public roads, not a race, not a timed event.
All right.
So, we're going to talk about Dave, we'll talk about Lufthier in a second because I
know that's the other thing that you did this week.
So, Casey, I think I know what your answer is, but what did you do in cars this week?
I didn't do much other than exactly what we're going to talk about in the upcoming segment,
but I wanted to give a shout out.
I won't bring it out in the next segment, but there's this great shop in North Carolina
named Sonderworks and the owner of this group that really builds awesome cars was kind enough
to make my dog three specific Porsche fabric bandanas.
The photo is cut off a bit, but you can see this one is a nice houndstooth with a
gunner racing built 966 in the background.
So, that is the shout out that I will give in this segment and I'm happy to go more into it
later, but it was an awesome time.
It was wild.
And that was the perfect car show dog.
She was very calm.
She didn't mind the crowds.
She was a very sweet pooch.
And she was wiped out that night for sure, Carly.
She was really tired, but no, awesome.
We'll talk more about it here shortly.
I bet you at Lufthier, it was an easy five-mile walk just walking around seeing all the things easily.
Yeah, and that was too much for a dog with bad back legs, which is what we're dealing with now.
So, all is good though.
All is good.
She's chilling out in the other room right now, so we're good.
So, Paul, what did you do in cars this week?
Well, besides the FOMO from being at home and not there, which by the way,
I was supposed to go to that Lufthier Colt back in 2020 when it was going to be in North Carolina
and they were doing this whole cross-country tour, which I've always wanted to drive all
the way across country, and it would have been the perfect time because there was a group of people
that were doing it with support and drive out there and it would have been tied into
Charles Target, Carolina.
And so, when I saw it all, what made it bittersweet was the fact that we were supposed to do that
trip in 2020 and I was kind of hoping that they would reignite that cross-country tour.
It was basically like, hey, everyone, meet in Utah and then there was like three more stops
across country, tag into Target, Carolina, which I know Charles is bugging me to go.
But instead, I had to just wallow around in Orange County car culture, which was okay.
And there's a club called the Finish Line here in Orange County.
It's like all of these other private car condominiums that are ridiculously expensive.
I mean, $2 million is the starting point for an unfurnished place to put five cars.
One of the owners in there, a friend of mine, Kip, his Instagram Swank rides, if you get a
chance to check it out, he decided that they were going to try to break the world record of
number of 300 SLs gathered in one place. And some of my other clients who have condos in there
were sending me pictures, which I'm not allowed to post, of the transports bringing cars in from
all over. They had 76 300 SLs in that showed up at this venue. And if you go to my Instagram,
I tried to post it. I have sort of a quick time video of all of it. But here's the funny thing,
one of the better parts of that, and I was sitting there looking at was as I'm standing there waiting
for it, an Enzo pulls in and just parks like this is just regular, you know, plea parking.
And I was trying to think and we I was standing next to a friend of mine, I was like, when was
the last time you saw just an Enzo? Like not on the Concord Italiano, but just this guy came to
cars and coffee from Mercedes. And there was Enzo. And then what made it better and I kind of kicked
myself for not taking a picture of both this parked right next to it. I mean, talk about like,
to have these two cars parked next to each other, and no one really cared. And I'm looking at them.
And I got to tell you, I think the Enzo aged better. And, and then going back to the SLs,
there was a whole line of let's point this out. So people some of you know, we have a lot of
iTunes listeners. I know, here we go. We're showing an Enzo and we're showing a Carrera GT.
That's I chose the Enzo. Yeah, he chose the Enzo. So I think the the kicker is it's silver.
Silver Enzos are silver and white Enzos are super dope. Black and red Enzos are pretty boring,
but silver Enzos that that really does an awesome job showing off the lines of that car.
But what do you guys think about the same owner? No, no, no, two different guys to two totally.
Like, if you would have seen him, this guy was your older, kind of sophisticated Ferrari,
not wearing red shoes, kind of subtle guy. This guy, I'm sure is a Lambrough. You know, he had,
he had like a gnarly banner across the windshield, which I took off with some kind of vulgar
thing. I mean, you could see inside he's got like race seats. It, I mean, maybe that's what
detracted from it. But but like looking at the front of these, you know, this looks very late
90s, early 2000s. It does. But this, especially when you look at current Ferrari design language,
I think this is such a pretty car. It and when it first came out, I thought it was two Formula
One. It was like they put pontoon fenders on a Formula One car. And I think over time it has aged
better. Now those headlights look way different in that color, like the headlight shape and so on,
just obviously the silver really accentuates that headlight shape versus when you see it in black
or something. Yeah. And so going back to what Casey said, I don't know if it was red or black,
like you see these, if I would have liked it as much. I don't know if it was the fact that I
haven't, I can't remember the last time I saw one even at a cars and coffee in Southern California,
of all places. So it just sort of kind of caught me off guard and was sort of that, you know,
when you see it a car show, it's like something unusual. And the irony is everyone's so focused on
all, you know, all of these Mercedes that no one really is looking at it. Can we go back to that?
So you said there are nearly 80 300 s else there. Do you guys have any clue how many 300 s else are
still alive? Like how many still exist? I don't either. So with I, there's no way you'd know
this, but I wonder how many of those were domestic like us based 300 s else versus people that brought
them in just so they could have met that, you know, though, I mean, no, no, these were all
here's the irony. These were all Southern California based. That's incredible. Honestly,
because what they were doing is a lot of people, I would say 90% of the owners of condos in that
facility, that that's sort of like a, a measuring contest. They all have huge
love me warehouses, garage mahal's or whatever you want to call it outside anywhere in the valley
to San Diego. So they were bringing in s else from their other location. But you're right. And
and there was a couple, there was a really insanely nice done SLR. I was super excited
like, Oh my God, there's an SLR. But then someone reminded me that there's what two in the world.
And they're, I think the museum has them both. But then they had this whole row of what I really
liked, which were the call, they were basically a group of Colorado grand s else that didn't
bother to clean themselves afterwards. And what was really because it ended a week ago. So there
was like 10 super the dirtiest I've ever seen an SL and you know, isn't that incredible that that
car is from the early 1950s. When you look at those things and just isolation, just, you know,
it is so beautiful. I don't know if you like to drive. I've never driven one. But wow.
Yeah, I was going to ask Paul, have you driven one? I drove one once I don't fit really well.
That's why the steering wheel does this whole tilt thing to get in. But from what I understand
for people friends of mine who do rally them outside of like, they're like a 356 they're very
contemporary to drive. And that's why they're so popular on on Milamiglia, California Millay,
Colorado grand, all you know, all of these high end rallies, because you qualify, and you have a car
that I talked to Magnus, he drove one Mercedes gave him one to drive in the California Millay,
or no, no, the Milamiglia. And he said, outside of just the hours they're in, he goes, I can't
imagine being any other car. It was it was very, very doable. So I think they're really cool.
He's like six, two, he's like Casey height. And he was with his now wife at the he was girl from
the time that he's with his wife, who's also, you know, six foot tall, and they had their hats on
and they fit in there. He said the only thing is in the goings, it does get warm. It gets really
warm. Yeah. Alright, so pop quiz, you guys ready? Alright, the Nurburgring, the Nurburgring dare all
I made him a lot harder. Alright, so the Porsche test right so this is a, I think the first time
I did this to annoy you guys, Dave was actually on his rally. So Dave, here's the deal. I'm going to
give you guys a quiz question that I'm going to give you four answers and you have to choose which
one is right. And I'll tell you the worst at this so far is Kramer. So don't listen to him.
All right, Porsche test drivers often set lap records on the Nurburgring. What bonus did one
test driver say was waiting if you kept the throttle pinned through certain blind crests?
Option A, an extra second off your lap time. That sounds like a nice Germanic answer, right?
Option B, free beers at the factory. Option C, a seat in the hospital. Option D, a date with a
Michelin tire girl. Alright, so if you kept the throttle pinned on the Nurburgring, which of those
four things was waiting for you according to a Porsche test driver who wants to go first? Paul?
I mean, my first thought was, I was hoping when the answer was you get air because I figured you
would get air somewhere doing that. You're procrastinating. Answer, son. Free beers at the
factory. Okay, free beers. Casey, you're next. Hospital seat, hospital bed. That was my second guess.
Dave, you're next. I was going to go with the second off lap time. It's clearly not beers at
the factory. That would violate some kind of regulations, I'm sure. According, here's the
answer. According to test drivers, if you stay flat through certain blind crests,
it's hospital or hero, not officially sanctioned but very Porsche. Casey, have you gotten one of
these wrong yet? Probably not. They're too easy. It's hard to be humble when you're that good.
Remember, I'm the realest of this group. I am the realest of this group. If they, trust me, if they
could go faster, they'd go faster. Seeing those guys lap that thing is terrifying. So definitely
not cutting the second off of that, that's for sure. When my dad, we were going to Germany,
my dad really, truly didn't understand the Nurburgring. I think one of the videos I sent him
was like Jorg Bergmeister or Dumas. Remember, he said that crazy lap record? I go, yeah, here's what
it looks like. You've been on the Nurburgring. You've been on the Nurburgring. I've only done it
in a simulator and I've seen videos of it and it's freaking terrifying on my simulator. I cannot
imagine what it feels like at speed in a freaking car in the passenger seat. I mean, all I can say
is I am so glad I went in a lower horsepower car that was a dual clutch because you're so busy and
when they talk about blind, I think 80% of the turns are blind and I don't know how anyone just
hops in the car without an instructor because it took five laps to feel like I wasn't going to die
and that's where you break the point where like, okay, I'm going to spend thousands of dollars
and become a Nurburgring junkie or you just like go cold turkey. Yeah. All right, so let's move on
automotive news. All right, so hopefully, let me see. Yes, you guys have. All right, Casey, why
don't you go first because I thought this was you have a couple of good interesting points and I
think I know of all these cars you're talking about. So automotive news, Casey Parkin.
So the thing that stuck out in my mind the most this week is Porsche pulled their WEC factory
supported Penske team from racing for the 2026 calendar year. It's a bit of a bummer because
traditionally in the history of Porsche, the factory teams are the cars that are able to win Le Mans
and they of course got thwarted by Ferrari these last couple of years and it's a bummer. I do know
that they're still going to be supporting customer teams in the 2026 year to run in the WEC, but
they're basically putting focus on Formula E, which unfortunately I have no interest in and they
are still going to be supporting the Penske team in the IMSA for IMSA 963 racing, which is good
in the hypercar class, but honestly every manufacturer wants to win Le Mans and I believe
they're cutting themselves a little bit short. I can imagine that it cost a tremendous amount of
money to support a couple of cars to run Le Mans every year and continue development,
but it's a little bit of a bummer nonetheless. Yeah, Casey, I have a quick question about
is this because of one of two things or both? One, obviously because of backing out of EV in
less commitment and we saw the charts from the podcast a couple of weeks ago where Porsche is
going to be less profitable so they need the money or is it that they don't think they have a really
clear, like they want to hedge their bets and they don't have a clear idea that they think they
really can dominate Le Mans or the big races so they just rather support a privateer?
I think it's a little bit of both. I believe especially in the United States IMSA racing,
the balance of power on the 963 has been quite neutering through this year. They're cutting
back the power that it makes and adding weight and that mean if you look at the first half of this
IMSA season, the car was absurdly dominant and then the second half of the season it was really
tempered back. I believe there's a lot of that, but I really believe it all comes down to dollars
and cents. They do still want to make the attempt at making electric vehicles work
for the cars that they do have coming out so I believe that's still while they're leaning
into Formula E especially because they are so dominant. I think sports car racing is still
very big in the United States and I do believe that a lot of that is supported through local
or American-based companies so it's less of an expense than having the factory specifically
doing all of these long endurance races for the World Endurance Championship.
It's got to be about the money honestly. I mean they're hemorrhaging money and it would seem.
I'm going to throw this out there. I thought this was interesting. At Luft we had an informal
little meetup with a couple that was their Chinese but they're living here full-time,
married couple and he had a 964. It wasn't polar silver but he had a 964. Don't worry,
I'm not going to bring it up Casey. I promise we wouldn't and I know it hurts too much but
I mean yeah okay so I won't do it. All right and here's the thing. I was asking him why
what the deal with Porsche and their sales falling in China and he told me some things
that I haven't read anywhere and here's the bottom line. He said in China the Chinese
tariff the hell out of any imported cars. He told me that the last time he was in Beijing,
which was in the last 18 months, he said in downtown Beijing it was super quiet
because there were no there were all basically EVs and there were all Chinese EVs. So the reason
that Porsche sales dropped in China was because Chinese basically killed Porsche sales. That was
one thing and then he was a Porsche enthusiast at Luft and I asked him explain to Chinese not like
vintage cars and all the rest of it and he said they do but again the Chinese government
taxes the hell out of any old cars similar to what they do in Japan. So I just thought those
little bits of information had been missing from the whole story that the you know the Porsche was
saying about they just said our sales dropped off in China. Well they dropped off in China because
essentially you know Porsche I'm sorry yeah Porsche's cars became too expensive compared to the Chinese
counterparts. I thought that was kind of interesting. Yes Casey.
Well the other thing we can look back at is you know this happened another time in Porsche history.
Porsche did a huge amount of development following the GT1 for a program called LMP 2000
and they basically Wendell and Vita King the president Porsche at that time said we can do
two things. We can either go back to Winlemaw following the 1998 season or we can make this
thing called the Cayenne. So it all came down to money and of course the Carrera GT evolved out of
the LMP 2000 program. So it's just history repeating itself again. There are ebbs and
flows in the economy ebbs and flows in how much money a business makes and you know while we would
all like to go out and party every night sometimes you have to go to bed early to go to work.
Yeah. Well stated. All right. Automotive news Dave.
Well part of me found this interesting just because I normally don't see too many lucid
electric cars in the area that I'm in here but when we were on our way to
a luth obviously in the rally Durham area there was quite a number really a large number of lucid
airs that I saw then this particular story popped up about how their sales in Q3 have jumped 47%
which I thought was either they're selling zero cars and now they're selling a few.
I thought that was a pretty big jump. Yeah. Well I bet you that's exactly what it is honestly.
I bet it's just manipulation of the statistics but sorry go ahead. Well ultimately it's I think
it's really because the tax credit was expiring right. So I think wasn't at the end of this month
where the seven thousand dollar tax credit was was going away on these EVs. So it's it'll be really
interesting to see what happens with this EV market and to me with lucid in particular because
they're just launching this car behind me is an image of their gravity which is their small SUV.
Let me see if I can cover that up. It's not bad. Are these American made. Yeah they're made in
Northern California. So I mean the thing about the lucid and this is and this is unfortunate is
the tax credit lucid's products have been a premier product. So the tax credits were almost
irrelevant and they are phenomenal vehicles and they're even better used vehicles because they
just appreciate like a like a brick. But the sad thing is they finally they I mean they they're
all Tesla guys that figured they could build a better mousetrap and they really did. There's some
amazing technology with the these lightweight motors that they built that the sad thing is
they started with like this this great sedan like this SL competitive sedan or S class
commes man but no one's buying sedans let alone luxury sedans. And then finally when they come
up with the product Dave has which is going to appeal which is going to be more affordable
with their killer technology where the tax credit would really actually benefit. It's gone and I
think sadly although that's probably going to be a great car I think it's going to be the nail in
the coffin that company. I hope not because they're I would say Rivian and lucid are probably the
two best hopes for electric technology development but I could see lucid getting torn apart GM buys
the technology for the motors someone you know just basically the big manufacturers just buy up
and hopefully it stays with US manufacturing. I'd love to see if it goes that way GM buy some of the
technology Ford buy some of the technology between the two and not have it go export but we'll see.
Mr. Kramer the cars look very nicely built. They are of high quality the feature sets and so on
they're very they're attractive cars which is why I spotted them right. I mean you're seeing one
drawn the road you don't see a lot of the sedans obviously and I've seen none of this SUV but I
have even even local whether really I mean there's a huge place big service center right near our
shop I haven't seen that locally yet but anxious. All right so Tim my big news which some it's
very cursory it's very early it's the idea that Toyota and Mazda are going to collaborate
and now people you know people look at Toyota and Mazda are as probably more of a competitor
than Toyota Nissan because Nissan's barely even existing and it's it was sort of rumor but even
as as early as a week ago a bunch of people or journalists came up to Toyota and really pushed
them hard like are you guys partnering with Mazda and what was the quote we cannot comment about
speculation about future product which is basically no comment is they're gonna do something now the
big question is what are they gonna do you know that the Mazda Miata and the GR86 are different
products they appeal to different people but then you know the GR86 already is it's kind of like our
last hope for a new car that's affordable rear-wheel drive manual transmission and but they partner
obviously with Subaru and the biggest challenge is they haven't had enough power and then you've
got Toyota already partnering the Supra with BMW BMW's basically making the convertible Toyota's
making the coupe you know Nissan is sort of flouting around trying to figure out how to get
the 400Z and and my big concern of this partnership is are we going to lose one of these two products
which I mean you can't lose the Miata it's iconic it's it's you know your gateway drug
to sports car ownership and how many rear-wheel drive manual transmission sports cars under
50 grand are left for sale in the US well what's also interesting is how many folks are going to
sort of you know cross the bridge from having a bunch of cars and end up back buying an original
Mark 1 Miata which actually brings me to a story that I found and I don't know if you guys saw this
as well but Mazda is actually doing complete restorations only on their Mark 1 Miatas and
they're doing them in Japan and I just I did as much homework on this as I could and it looks
like it's about a $60,000 oh someone's going to pull it up for me I think it's Dave thank you
and show it on YouTube so if you guys are on YouTube yeah you can see and the essence of the
story is is that you can ship them your Miata which I don't think I don't know why you would or you
just have them source one in Japan their left hand drive so it all works and then they'll do a
complete restoration I couldn't figure out if they'll let you change colors and things like that
I don't know but yeah I mean I think that's kind of cool because what are they going to charge
all in if I did the conversions right it's like 50 to 60 grand
and that did not include the car and it takes six months I mean the six months is good 50 to 60
grand is a lot considering you can go out and buy like an amazing uh you know and you know first
edition Miata that's what we did I mean we we bought at Julien I bought a black with red 93
limited edition which is the original one and I think if I remember correctly I was eight or
nine thousand miles on it we brought it off bring a trailer for uh delivered it was 23 grand so I
actually agree with you but finding those cars is super hard because most of them got crapped out
so in any event it's fun that we're all talking about the inexpensive joe the joys of owning
inexpensive cars as we move on to the next topic which is talking about luft the exact opposite
of inexpensive cars all right okay so let's roll in I'm going to start out by saying I've never been
to a luft before um I was messaging paul and I know I used the word overwhelm to describe the
experience that is what it felt like it was overwhelming from so many different levels
I cannot I still can't really I I don't know where to place it in my mind in terms of all the other
car things I've been to we've been to car things Julie and I and you're up in California and just
all over the place but nothing was as cool as luft and it's it was I'm trying to and hopefully you
guys can help me to express to the audience who's never been to one why they need to go even if
you're not a dyed in the wool portion nerd the reality of it is is being at an event
where there's where it's not just a traditional car show where there's not freaking vendor alley
where there's not loud horrible music from the 1960s and 70s playing in the background
it doesn't have that whole vibe it is almost like a museum environment meets you know I don't know
how to describe it can you guys help me out no I think you know and actually this is a picture of
this is our tortuga when it was about a year old year old with us this is in 2000 I want to say 14
and this was luft too and it was at bandido brothers which was it was in uh bandido brothers which
was a design studio in venice beach and it was the beginning of them realized and it was a very
nowhere near curated like what you guys experienced but it was the beginning of a curated
show and and and kind of breaking the mold of the traditional car show and being friends with pat
long you know he loves loves loves these cars he hates going to like a cars and coffee where you
have to weed through a bunch of stuff to maybe see a car that's wedged in a parking space so you
can't really take a good picture you can't even get around it and he's like I really want to stage
these in a way and really the key was when he brought jeff's word in you got a photographic
eye and so this is a show I don't know if they intentionally did this but it was really how
do we get a a venue where we can showcase these cars from the viewpoint of a photographer and that's
why it's so photogenic and that's why the backdrops are so important and and um it's really really
hard to get these new places and surprise and I had a feeling it was going to be at the american
was american tobacco yep campus because I think that's where they were going to be the first time
and I kind of strong armed it was so freaking incredible because I strong armed pat long like
where is it I kind of put two and two together back in 2020 I remember looking at google uh
shots I was like oh this venue is going to be fantastic what so just to kind of build on this
there's no like big field there's no big ass parking lot where crawlers are all lined up
and I'll give you guys an advanced player tip if you're going to go to one of these which everyone
should the day before when they're setting up in my mind was more enjoyable than the actual
day of the show because the actual day of the show there's lines there's massive amount of people
hard to get a picture but the day before the show when all the trucks are unloading and they're
trying to wedge all these cars in these impossible places uh it's like jet automotive jenga and and
by for example julie and I were walking down this it was basically a bridge and there was this little
alcove and the alcove was about 13 and a half feet long does anyone know how long a 356 is
about 13 and a half feet and what they were trying to do is so it was a it was a rectangle
right they wanted to park the 356 in you know long ways and so they had to figure out a way
to lift the 356 in millimeter by millimeter you know with a floor jack just push it back in this
space now they eventually gave up and they ended up parking it you know perpendicular to the back
but still watching them go through all that was incredible hearing all the cars start as they came
off trailers especially like a case he's got behind him the old 550s I watched that car getting
unloaded I mean it just was exhilarating and I have to say I liked it actually more I shouldn't
say this but I liked it more than car week I really did that one day was better than freaking
three days of car week in Monterey and I don't think and it was just because it was more in
alignment with you know I don't know it was just more relaxed the people were just truly exceptional
that's the other thing it's hard to so let's let's set up the the space for those that aren't
actually like haven't been so American tobacco was obviously you know North Carolina known for
its tobacco this was an old factory I'm not sure if it was purely lucky strike but lucky strike
cigarettes were certainly made at this factory at some point so this is a situation the the image
behind me is the Durham Bowl stadium which has been integrated and it was built as part of this
redevelopment so this is where the Durham bowls play if you look behind me you know that's mark
Donahue's 917 back in there that they rolled out into the middle of you know second base there on
the night before the event started and then for the ultra VIPs they had some sort of special
presentation that was there on the field so that was super cool the night before they had a big party
but this place is like multi-level and every around every little corner is like an old
section of this factory that they've redeveloped into either office space or retail or restaurant
and the ups and downs the water features that ran right down through the middle of it just
a stellar place where this thing was was held and then who doesn't love brick right so the brick
was just everywhere it was all old school brick and these cars were just jammed in here but beautifully
set up so you'd never had more than maybe three or four cars together in any one section and then
you'd just walk into different places and everything was kind of a discovery you would just see things
that were just you know amazing cars in amazing venues and I would certainly agree with you Paul
that I think Jeff's work played a big role in that and the other thing like the picture that Casey
I'm sure Paul you were at the lumberyard version of this right because I brought that car to the
lumberyard there you go I think the lumberyard spawned all of the wood that they use now like
that was one of those things that they added during that that version which I think was I don't know
eight number eight or number seven I can't remember which it was using that lumber and they get fresh
lumber and they've banded together and they do all these things and and put these cars up on it like
the 550 that Casey has behind him there just really need that that stuff has has continued Casey can
you go back to the slide you had up prior to this one one where the 550 was sitting in front of that
ridiculously like 10 story all right I'll just set this up and then and then Casey I'd love to
hear from you that thing behind that 550 I don't know how many stories it was it was I would say
at least three stories maybe four stories tall and I'm pretty damn sure that was some what up
some sort of steam hot water something or another it was a boiling yeah in essence yeah
but it was just extraordinary so Casey what I mean had you been you hadn't been to aloof this was
your first one too right so it is and the only one of these that I've ever been to like this before
was air water a few years ago which Paul and I have talked about and I plan on going out in
springtime next year to air water again I was I will as Tim mentioned it was absolutely overwhelming
I am not a crowd person and for the couple of listeners that came up to me and talked to me
one specifically because I it took me a second to figure out where I was in space and time at that
moment but there's a guy named Tim who is a is a listener and he actually bought a silver GT3
from Paul he came up to me and started talking to me and I was so confused as to what was happening
at that moment because I was recognized from from doing this and it was it was quite mind-blowing
but it took me like until he walked away he's like yeah I bought a GT3 from Paul and I was like
who's Paul and then I was like and then like five seconds later it all clicked but but it was
as Tim mentioned the the positioning the cars were were insane my favorite space
in the whole place was where this 550 was behind me this room probably had I mean I have no idea
what the first 550 is worth but let's just say there was 30 35 million dollars worth of cars in
that room the the most and Dave has a better picture of it up right now but if you see the
overhead shot yeah the car in the background is my buddy Bob's fish scale silver bent window 356
which I'm around a lot because it's a local to us but Bobby Ray Hall's like cream yellow 904
was in there and that was the car I wanted to see most of this whole thing I've seen 550-01 a couple
of times before but I mean there were I don't know if I have another picture of it but there were
three America roadsters there real one 1952s and they were insane like they just it's like I've
the they had the one sitting on the National Mall from Road Scholars a couple years ago which
was awesome and other than I think a silver one that I saw at the Porsche Museum I'd never seen
one before but there were three of them there but this this room that that's behind Dave and behind
me in these pictures was was insane and it's Casey sorry to interrupt but it's worth mentioning
there are three of them and there are all these other special cars but these aren't behind ropes
these aren't you know some sort of snobby ass you know vibe to it you could go up to the cars I'm
sure you don't want to man handle them that much but you could completely interact with the vehicles
and there aren't security people walking around or people checking wristbands or making sure you
have the right colored lanyard so you know it really made it very approachable and very accessible
if the only security type people that I saw um where there were people dressed in
Penske uniforms around the Mark Donahue car because that that that along with the 5501
were probably the most valuable cars there if I had to bet um there are a few cars less
storied other than maybe like a Rothmans 962 or a golf livery 917 that really play to that era of
insanely cool motorsport and I I thought it was insane um my favorite part of it and Tim I'm
sad that you couldn't have gone there that evening is uh in the evening of Saturday my buddy Yuri
and I went to this shop that um Dave was at and uh we just sat there and talked for a long time
and this this cool space there was a bunch of Sander works cars there and I got to pick over them
and I'll promise you I am very particular and I don't mean to even if I didn't know Dave and
didn't do business with him before I would tell you that the quality of the work that he does
compared to some of the other builders that cost a lot more money that I saw represented there
the work was insane and I also got to meet um another listener and a guy that's become a friend
Marshall who is I believe he knows Paul and Dave and of course Tim but we we stood there and talked
for like 45 minutes and had uh you know watered down old-fashioned and it was it was a killer night
and it was it was uh it's been a while since I've done something like this the only thing
that I believe tops um tops luffed as far as this is I really love to see cars in motion um
so rent sport for me will always be peak because there's nothing better than seeing like the car
behind me this 934 uh I think that's a 934 it looks like one or it's either the 934 uh an early
rs actually it's probably an early like a 74 rsr but seeing something like that lapping a track
shooting four feet of fire out of the back of it I think that to me is peak but as far as a static
display I don't believe anything beats luffed yeah and let me let me let me drop some let's
some uh some scoop here because I actually heard Casey that rent sport was going to then appear
next year and rent sport will be in Daytona Beach this year or this this next coming one so it's been
on the three-year cycle and I heard that it was going to be in Daytona it's been at Monterey and
Laguna Seca for the last couple events but I'm told this time it's that that would to me that
would be highly unusual considering that Porsche just spent a ton of money to be the key ownership
sponsor at Laguna Seca you know used to be Mazda Raceway Weathertech Raceway it's now
Porsche they're doing their experience center there if it's at Daytona from a financial standpoint
I have no idea why they wouldn't do that well Florida Florida's probably a lot correct or not
yeah see if the scoop is right well I hope it happens I mean I hope I hope rent sport happens
again to me that was there's I don't think there's anything cooler than that and I got to oh two
two other quick things and then I'll turn it over um my good buddy Steve that runs Goud and Porsche
their classic department they won the preservation for the Porsche restoration challenge and our
friends at Harper Porsche who are listeners of the podcast they took home the the People's Choice
Award for their Chroma Flare Carrera RS which looked really amazing in person so kudos to both of
those guys that was a very cool car I don't know if you guys like Chroma Flare or not maybe your
first impression is it's too flashy but Julie and I sat down and just to take a little break and
that Chroma Flare car was right in front of us and it just sort of sold itself to you you know
you sort of fell in love with it it was really really well done you know um so uh as far as Dave
your experience I do want to say this and Marshall from Oklahoma and all these other folks that we
met I was that was what really caused me to feel overwhelmed the the feedback from the folks that
are part of our full throttle talk community was extraordinary and the people that were coming up to
us and the people that were just so nice and so sweet and Casey's right the lack of formality
when they started with conversations with us it wasn't high on you know Bob from Oklahoma
it's they just picked right up on top some topic we had on the podcast and if you if you were sort
of buffering you would you know have the experience that Casey did which I had a few times but
the very fact that we had so many people that were so sweet so nice made me feel amazing
honestly considering we just started this thing less than a year ago you know full throttle talking
to be around people that so thoroughly appreciate and enjoy what we're doing met the world to me
honestly and you know it really did change my perspective on it made me feel more tied into
the Porsche community than I ever have before knowing getting to know a lot of the more of
these people and how gracious they are that so that was my big takeaway I would say Dave what
about yours well I'm kind of curious is that as opposed to Ferrari people Tim what are you trying
to say there okay well since you asked I'll answer your question I'll say that the Ferrari people
a majority of the Ferrari people are Ferrari people especially when they go to Ferrari events
their primary objective is not the cars their primary objective and I'll I know some people
are not going to like me saying this but it's still true is networking a lot of folks get into
the more expensive cars because they want to network they want to get to know other high
net worth people sorry true and that's the reason you joined a country club and that's
learned reason you learn how to play golf the Porsche vibe was not like that at all those people
there were to talk about cars they just wanted to be around like-minded enthusiasts there was no
posturing or nobody was checking to see if you're wearing this or the other thing none of that was
going on so I would say does that answer your question that does and and I think that's one
of the things about the Porsche community and the the diversity which we talked about before in age
and and and financial background and everything related to Porsche because you had cars that
were there and if you know you look at them there there was beaters that were there right I mean
cars that were certainly not a concord quality car and I think that's certainly one of the things
that I love about Luft is that you've got people that are really driving this car I don't know if
you saw there was a you know a friend that has a 356 that's kind of an aqua marine color 356
that's probably got 300 or 400 000 miles on it at this point and the bottom falls right out of the
car he just keeps driving this thing and it was featured prominently right near the entrance
and I think that's one of the the draws it's that people keep driving them all these cars are still
on the road people are trying to keep them going that's why I feel like I picked a really good
business because there's demand for this stuff and it comes from all over the age range and so on
were you guys surprised he mentioned age did you guys notice that essentially it was definitely
older and I don't know if that's true in California I doubt if it is okay and the rally Durham
for that Luft it was definitely people that were I would say 45 and older for sure a minority of the
people younger people and I went and sought out the millennial types and I was asking them just
trying to you know get a sense of the market for the sake of the show and they're all I would say
most of them were not died in the wool old Porsche fans they were newer Porsche fans and this was a
Porsche event they're going to at their dad or whatever that was my observation Casey or Dave
do you have any feedback on that I I mean I'll put it this way trying to make sure I wasn't
going to run into somebody was probably priority one is noticing the ages of people around me
but you know I would I would tell you I might say it's skewed a little bit possibly a little bit
younger than what you were talking about I think maybe 35 35 to 50 was probably the key demographic
that was there and there may be some you know some maybe 35 to 60 was probably the the the prominent
age and another thing that was interesting is I also saw a lot of women there I mean my wife went
and she really enjoyed herself well along those lines you guys have all been to car shows where
there's no lines to the men's bathroom and there's huge lines for the women's bathroom well this one
is the exact opposite if that puts things into perspective you know no line women's long line
for men's but yes like I take your point and when I was saying earlier about meeting Tim that
introduced himself to me a buddy it's become a buddy a guy that Paul knows really well Trevor
that does the parry parry podcast that I love he was great I apologize if I pronounced that incorrectly
but um godly other than the fact that I thought I broke his like a camera um the such an awesome guy
and that's kind of I bet that's kind of how I felt I mean meeting him as I mean because I listen
to his podcast every week you know to me it's a calming thing and I think it's a tremendous
a tremendous podcast he's a super good dude so kudos to him and thanks for taking the time
to chat with me for a couple of minutes you know what's funny too is that everyone who
is known to the podcast is trying to like you guys don't have ads and you're not doing this
and you're not doing the other thing like everyone thinks that we have a financial
motive for doing this and we really truly don't I mean because we're all probably too stupid to
figure one out to be honest with you well okay with that said we are looking for a title sponsor
for the podcast Hagerty your name should be on every one of our videos that we're doing for sure
so we would have one great title sponsor but other than that I don't think any of us have any
aspirations to really you know monetize this we want to keep it true to our mission as far as
being for enthusiasts so uh you have a anything you'd like to share Dave I know you had some notes
that I didn't get to oh no I mean just honestly the this you know we had a couple of different
cars there including the one that's now behind me which is actually a 77 kind of hot-rodded car that
one of my employees actually has been restoring here in the shop kind of during the weekends
and the evenings and he's pulling in you know tax and so on to put this car on the road but this
was sort of featured down the one of the main drags not not necessarily like in a big open
field or something along those lines but they had all these cars kind of staged a certain
way and this one sort of stood out where it was a you know vertical versus being just parked
horizontally but this one was a great car and it it showed up at the party that Casey and I attended
the on the night after they asked to bring this car there pillar with the Pasha uh black and white
Pasha on the door cards it's got the pole positions in it as well that are done in Pasha really came
out nice and I'm really proud of Rob who's my service manager who really did pour his heart and
soul into getting this car back on the road because if you'd seen this car when I acquired it and
then ultimately sold it to him it was a real pile so yeah super good to meet him too Rob and once
once Dave figured out that I was who I was he's like yeah you just work with Rob and Rob took
super good care of me when we did the restoration work on on my buddy's car that Sander works it
was great to meet him I gave him a big hug when I saw him and so this copper brown yeah well
I had him I'm sorry no this copper brown one that he's showing if you guys are looking for a really
really well done uh SC this car is gorgeous when we are meeting folks basically we are lingering
around that car paint perfect panel gap perfect interior gorgeous the whole thing and I think
reasonably priced by you know considering how much obvious money went into this thing go ahead
no it's just going to say that we were fortunate Maguire Wax asked us to bring a couple of cars
or at least one car we're going to be two for a second and then because one of them of that
they had arranged wasn't going to get there but we brought this car instead beautifully featured in
the same building where you know the 356's were just a fantastic spot it was called the the cage
was this area so the building is kind of open but the photos that were getting taken here were just
amazing uh they the Maguire's folks were fantastic to us they let us fire the car up near the end
of the day um but I'll talk about this car when we get into with this and that because I think
I'm going to use this car as one of the two so so in conclusion a 10 out of 10 and I will say this
if we wanted to start a business we I can tell you guys right now how we could actually make
enormous amounts of money we actually start a clone louft t-shirt and hat business
because they sold out so fast and people were pissed I was carrying Dave was kind enough to
basically be in line and grab us some t-shirts early in the morning otherwise we wouldn't have
gotten any and when I was carrying around the bag I had three people come up and ask me if I
had sell the shirts yeah about that and by the way pro tip most of that stuff is like the poster
or whatever is available beforehand some of it's available beforehand on their website
and then often what I do is I will buy stuff afterwards I mean they're in the they're in the
business to not have limited production so they will have a lot of it so if you go you know not
that I'm promoting them I mean the problem is all of their I have so much louft wear and it's made
for people that look like Casey and all you three you know it's like European cut the hilarious
thing is my daughter who's not a car person she loves all those shirts so she wears them to call
she was wearing at college and people are like oh you're into you're a louft cuckold fan she's
like I don't even know what that is yeah and just a quick question about louft cuckold here's and
we've had this conversation with friends at car friends what how could you do this in what way
would this be as successful in a not port if you took Porsche out like what brand could you do this
of of any other auto manufacturer or whatever where how could you do this with could you do it with
Ferrari could you do it with Corvette that's the only two that came to my mind yeah so and I know
that there's a there's a group in LA and I wish I could have gone last weekend and they they're
doing an event called Mach Mach Machissima which is I think the way you do Ferrari which is all
Italian and it's all vintage or special Italian and they're trying to curate it it's almost become
like it reminds me of louft back in 2014 and the first one that was at Deus Ex Machina that was
even smaller and ironically I was invited to the first louft it was in the Deus I don't know if
you've been to Venice Beach with a Deus Ex Machina it holds like 10 cars and there's like a there's
like a Thai restaurant next door and I was invited to come and I was like I'm not driving to Venice
Beach this morning well they answer your question Paul BMW probably I would say BMW that's probably
good the same sporty bet um and they got it and they got like a die-in-the-wool enthusiast that
will have the and they're not right and they're not super expensive and it's not a super super
snob brand and there's a lot of badass cars from the 80s and the 70s and whatever I would say I
wouldn't say Mercedes I wouldn't say I don't know BMW that would have to be it I think you know what
do you think about Corvette what what about Corvette though I'm actually despite the fact
that I like to bring up Corvette all the time just a frickin poke Paul I'm not that much of a
Corvette I love the new c8 I think it's brilliant I think it's a game changer um but I'm not really
into that world I can't really tell you for sure you know the nice thing about it is it has that
similar similar lineage to you know Porsche in terms of you can you know be getting early cars
and later cars and the the evolution it would be very clear there's tons more to pick from obviously
as well but I think brand is interesting though but I mean Casey again Casey brought up for example
Bobby Ray Hall's uh 904 the tan car which was amazing and like is the brand is the Corvette
as a brand does it have as much depth and texture and interest I'm not sure if it does I'm not sure
if it has that same level of just I will say this and I'll say this with love and respect
the level of people on the the number of people on the spectrum you know the autistic spectrum
at this thing was off the freaking charts which is fine whatever right I mean and if you weren't
walking around with an expensive freaking camera knowing having all the thing I mean Casey there
were a lot of people there that made you I mean you had to have been standing there and all of some
of the the details that some of these people knew but I don't know if there's any other brand that
has that level of pure enthusiasm meets intellectual horsepower and I think that combination of
things may it really feel special at least to me I think you're right I mean it's it's outside of
the cars part it is like a watch and camera you know Trevor got a picture of my speed master
and he's like you want to do a like a wrist shot I was like I don't know what that is okay watch
check what do we got nothing Casey's not wearing a watch again no Casey you just need to like get
a tattoo and like just call it done or Casey wear the formula gloves with a watch that's printed
on the gloves oh yeah that my IWC gloves you got exactly all right what are you wearing Kramer
early 90s date just Rolex it was the first nice watch I bought used
uh-huh so very very and it's and I only wear this for special occasions and I'm wearing it this week
because I'm going on a freaking rally oh yeah we didn't bring that up congratulations he's
cleared to go on his first official rally and yesterday was the first time I drove a car in
two and a half months oh shit and bleep that out I apologize that's great man that's awesome Paul
yeah speed master from Dave that's my 89 20th anniversary moon landing speed master that I
actually bought earlier this year from a friend it's engraved on the side that has you know
celebrating the moon landing and so on so uh cool watch nice little bit of patina on it very cool
kind of stuff I like I'm not the guy that's going to spend $25,000 on a watch I'm afraid right so
you know uh you know this this is just perfect for me though and then to add to my collection
so so Paul tell us about driving well yesterday the dog I went to the doctor and I asked him like
so can I go on the rally and he's very you know like Roman emperor he's like I don't see why not
and then I said well what about driving and he goes yeah I think that's fine he goes just
go to a parking lot and practice first I think he was more concerned that I would be comfortable
in position so yesterday my physical therapist we went to the fairgrounds parking lot near near
shop and got in my 2003 Jaguar and just says it's my sedan he's he said no manuals yet but
just automatic and and it really was the the proverbial like getting back on the bike I mean
it just felt normal so when we go on this rally Friday we have the rental macan and I'm going to
be driving part of it which is I'm I'm super like you have no idea how excited my wife said the only
other time she saw me that excited is when I bought that Citroen SM and then our wedding was down
lower so is the head coming yeah oh yeah no it's part of the deal he he's coming and he's I think
the doctor's excited because he has a 50 year medical background so he's going to be you know
making sure that everything's your dad was a doctor no he ran a medical laboratory for 50 years
I mean talk about a germaphobe and infectious disease I mean I you know growing up with someone
that wakes you up at five in the morning to draw your blood before going to work and I mean just
the washing hands I mean this explains a lot now it's all starting to clear up but you know and
the funny thing was and it's hard to explain the surgery was two and two months and a week ago
um but I'm basically walking little Frankenstein um and even the doctor came in and I was standing
up I can stand normal and he's like when did you start standing I'm like I I don't know I just I got
tired of sitting you know and I just stood up um you know it's it's it's sort of like forest
gump breaking through his his shackles um but I a week long northern Arizona uh 20 to 30 cars
it's gonna be a it's a very small group curated um you know a friend so I'm it's a good starting
point and we're gonna do another rally similar to that next year and I'm hoping by then I'll be
you know back in my you know normal steed and awesome man when we start doing full
throttle talk rallies Paul is volunteered to organize them so go you I will do it I'm good
at I'm good at are you serious dude that was your number one rule when you started the podcast
you said you do not want to organize anything yeah I mean I would I would do it more for
self-preservation so we don't have so we have something right but like geographically like if
a rally's gonna be in the east you know mid-atlantic it's gonna be a Casey Dave thing um I'm sorry
Tim we're not doing the Puerto Rico rally you can go in circles circles yeah we could yeah we'll
bring your NASCAR it's more like a kidney shape actually all right let's let's let's change topics
we can go through this one really quick because I thought it was interesting I'm sure other people
will as well or maybe not let's talk wheels all right so I want I've been really interested in
knowing why it is like what's the life cycle on cast wheels forage wheels carbon fiber wheels
magnesium wheels what is all this like I don't and I learned personally I learned a ton researching
this I have been told the carbon fiber of all the wheel wheel types are the most fragile and all
the rest of it but I don't want to step on my notes so I did cut and paste them and put them in the
spreadsheet so I mean as far as designs and goes but let's really get into this I mean if someone's
trying to decide about specking in their new Ferrari or they're specking in their new whatever
and there's different wheel options the magnesium wheel option the carbon fiber option let's walk
them through and there you go all right well there you go I mean that's sorry Casey did something
it had a trigger effect on me when you put the you started twitching when he when he put a cup
wheel or a speed line wheel exactly speed line modular wheel so let's let's just jump into this
I have no particular direction as to where to go but Casey you go first you might basically
knock it out of the park when we move on to the next topic no I mean I don't you know when you when
I saw this was proposed you know I there are wheels that I don't like I look after a number of cars
with and I look at them from a liability standpoint right when I sold Porsches new you know we would
always talk about the specific type of wheels that if you were to curb the the wheel you would be
able to get it fixed right so a painted wheel is a lot easier to fix than a wheel with a machine
finished but now as my as my career has shifted a little bit I deal with a number of cars with
carbon fiber wheels I deal with a number of cars with magnesium wheels and I can tell you that
neither of those am I big fans of magnesium I believe has a shelf life magnesium wheels from
the early 90s like car like 964 career rs's a lot of the wheels and cars that I look after sorry a
lot of the cars that I look after the wheels have been refinished and if you don't know much about
refinishing magnesium I am not an expert on this but it's super important to out gas the wheel
before and sometimes put a coating on them prior to putting any sort of paint or powder coating on
them because it will actually out gas through the wheel and car cause marbling and almost look like
the finishes rusting or bubbling off the wheel so if you go look at a career rs just go take a
964 go take a look at the wheels because that's something you see comp emotive wheels from
the 70s and 80s Italian cars are very similar and then the other thing that I'm not a huge
fan of is carbon carbon is very fragile the I remember seeing the first carbon wheels that I
ever really worked with were I mean from a man on a manufacturer vehicle is I think it was what the
could correct me if I'm wrong Paul like 2019 911 turbo s the gold package one you know the
one I'm talking about where they had the optional it was called exclusive something yeah yeah so
those wheels the the finish I've actually seen them peel off and turn different colors on those
particular those particular cars and Porsche if I'm not mistaken had their own autoclave to put
them together so I'm a log I'm a bigger fan of things that are more permanent so cast or forged
or cn seed wheels or flow formed things made out of aluminum I believe are more timely and last a
long time and that is always where I would lean towards towards wheel knowledge and and also not
a fan of three-piece wheels either other than the fact that speed lines are kind of the best wheel
I deal with the Diablo with oz three-piece wheels that um leak I've had the wheels rebuilt by people
that know what they're doing and they still leak through the centers of the wheels and it's uh
it's just a headache that I don't I don't believe needs to occur I mean everybody knows the Porsche
cup one wheel is probably the best wheel ever and we should just stick with that so this is
any car doesn't matter there you go so look any car Porsche guidance for GT series magnesium wheels
is a time mileage limit to replace every 10 years or 40 000 miles and when researching this I found
that to be a little shocking because I've never heard that before and so Casey that um the the car
that was at in Monterey uh that was the rebuild of the the RS the 964 RS remember how hard it was
the guy was saying that they totaled the car Haggerty ended up totaling the car when one of
the reasons was they couldn't find a new wheel that's kind of I mean so I don't know yeah to
throw this back to give it some context yeah Tim and I are talking about the Tim was looking at
bidding on a silver Carrera RS um that looks surprisingly like my 964 that didn't make it to
unfortunately but we're not going to talk about that anymore um but uh so but yeah one of the
reasons so Haggerty got this car um it was in an accident Porsche cars North America and their
classic program restored it and they couldn't get a replacement wheel because the right rear
was hit on the car so they had to total it and then they eventually were able to find a wheel
and restored the car and sold the car for what I thought was decent money but um my buddy Ray
was telling us the story but yes um if you see real serious Carrera RS people they will ask if the
wheels have ever been x-rayed because they want to make sure that there are no cracks um I don't
know I mean I'm sure Dave has dealt with this but early magnesium engine cases often become porous
and start to come apart my 964 um the later 964s they evolved to using aluminum parts rather than
magnesium such as valve covers because they blister and expand under different heating and cooling um
yes it's light yes it's cool to say that you have magnesium wheels but at the end of the day uh I wish
the in in the Porsche world I wish the the the aluminum wheels looked cooler um perhaps they
can't because of the the tensile strength and such that they need but in all reality you know
magnesium as Tim stated has a shelf life which is incredible I didn't know that I should have
known that because in racing in case you know this too because you and I are Formula 1 fans
those things I don't even know how many laps they go around but I know that they don't run
the same wheels for more than one race but here's the here's the interesting thing I learned this
too about the carbon fiber wheels and this is of course from carbon fiber revolutions uh a website
and they make the wheels for Ford Ferrari you know Corvette all these carbon fiber wheels it is
actually kind of funny a set of carbon fiber wheels from carbon fiber revolution on a Ferrari
is 50 000 same basic wheels that are on a Corvette are like you know less than half of that so I
don't know maybe it's a lot more money to import them in Italy who knows but here's the fascinating
part is the wheels are designed to last the life of a vehicle or longer so the carbon fiber wheels
actually have a longer shelf life than magnesium wheels who are spoiled milk in 10 years and you
have to replace them and I can guarantee you there are no 10-year-old magnesium wheeled
911 GT products out there who people are saying I'm going to replace these wheels that hasn't
become and it might be very well become have you replaced your wheels have you scanned your wheels
and that could be a detriment you know that could be your new uh your new what is it the
96 I thank you sir yeah who knows I'm giving you guys who are in the business more headaches
I look forward to oh I mean if a client asks me to you know what's your x-rays on the wheels I'm
out bro bro have you checked I'll be retired by then Paul over revs no over revs you know and it's
I'm showing a picture I mean I kind of experience this when I bought this what we call the mad cow
that's what looked like when I bought it's hard to see in those pictures but these car these wheels
were factory 9s and 12 or 10s and 12 74 rsr magnesium center lock wheels that's and ultimately
I had to switch them to the replica 917 aluminum wheels because they were 40 year old wheels from
like the mid early 70s and what ended up happening is as I was driving on them because why not um
they started to crack and they started to leak and I I had an horrible drive to Monterey car week
where every 45 minutes I had to get out and squirt like marine silicone into the into the
valve stem and hope I can get another 45 minutes of driving and I got really good at at low tire
pressure wheel recognition because the car would just shudder um and I had so many nightmares and
eventually you know I sold those here's the thing is I sold those set of wheels for almost 10 grand
back in 2008 because someone else who had a race car watered it and I'm just thinking I said hey
like three of the wheels work one doesn't I don't know when the other three are gonna go and going
back to what you said Tim there is a shelf life to them don't you guys think this is like a big
story because if there's a essentially these magnesium wheels are you know sketch after 10 years
and there's gazillions of porches out there with magnesium wheels and nobody's talking about it I
do not see how this is not going to be something that everyone should be aware of and and frankly
Porsche is going to probably make a fortune off selling replacement wheels by the way a true
e36 m3 lightweight which I've owned three of them and sold probably 12 of the 120 wow they are
magnesium alloy wheels because we've had to fix curb rashes on them and I remember our wheel guys
at our shop you know they have a lathe and they're spinning the wheel and they're like these wheels
are magnet they're not all magnesium but those motorsport wheels which say motorsport are a
magnesium alloy compound which now going back to you said Tim I don't know if it's if it's a compound
is that make it stronger you don't have to replace them often but I know these these wheels are very
sought out by the BMW community put on all their other cars you know they look for the ones that
say motorsport around the the center hub and I'm wondering are they all magnesium whereas just
the 120 got them and then the replacements aren't I I've asked people who are you know BMW you know
I call them Knights of the Roundel table and they don't know what the real story of that is business
ideas replica loose swag all right and then replacement magnesium wheels we are kicking
ass on how to monetize our podcast yes Paul Paul to go on what you were saying on a Porsche wheel
even dating back to if I'm not mistaken Fuchs wheels and I know through the 80s if you spin the
wheel around it'll actually show you the metallurgy composition on the back of the wheel it'll say
like MG to blah blah blah like it'll show that so there that is I'll see if I could get a picture
of one for our next podcast but I remember when I I did a tremendous amount of diligence when we
did the turbo cup restoration of course turbo 944 turbo cups have mag wheels so that was something
that I was considering going down that that slippery slope but they're insanely expensive
but yeah it does have the metallurgy on the back of one of the spokes of the wheels so check that
out did they did sorry I'm about to embarrass myself but didn't Porsche put magnesium roofs on some
I'm not sure that I mean a wheel is a load bearing item that expands and contracts with heat
I don't necessarily believe that a magnesium roof on a GT car is something that I mean that
wouldn't be a replaceable item for sure here just because you mentioned that super nerdy stuff and I
again I probably wasted way too much time reading about this but the heat cycles and carbon fiber
wheels has like zero negative impact on the wheels where versus in the alloys it does it just
essentially causes the wheels to eventually break down so anyway the only problem with carbon though
is if if there's any sort of nick or something that goes into the weave like a very like a stone
strike from driving on the road or god forbid you you run it into a curb you know if you're into the
weave and you're past the gel coat I to me that's compromised it is and one carbon fiber wheel
I know how much a carbon fiber wheel for a 4 GT costs and it costs more than my 914 and my
Land Cruiser when I first bought them added together so Casey I think how you started out by
saying just by aluminum alloys aluminum by aluminum wheels that you can fix for sure I mean and he's
right because going back to my even with the steel wheels like when I first got my my green 911
I had to make custom 7 and 8 inch steel wheels and you know how I made them is I took the centers
of the space savers from like a 80s Carrera you know those little doughnut space savers I took
those took them to a wheel place and then they put the hoops and I gave them the back spacing
and guess what after probably a hundred thousand miles the centers of the steel wheels started
to crack the factory space savers and one of the shot and of course no one's going to fix that
and by the way trying to fix steel wheels absolute nightmare and ultimately I ended up going with
this aluminum wheel that's a steel look because if yes they're a little softer but when they get
they don't break they bend and when they bend like Casey said they can get fixed but even when we
sold a Mustang 350 GTR they came with carbon fiber wheels and everyone takes them off everyone
and when I went to sell it everyone said has the carbon fiber wheels ever been on the car
and and they wanted to know going back to Tim if I was going to have to x-ray these freaking things
I'm like no the guy took delivery already bought a new set of wheels and before delivery switched
them and those in the wheels had never touched basically the ground besides the showroom but
honestly just going back to my point because I really am shocked that this isn't a thing
why is it that even Hagerty and all these other people and I'm gonna know I'm sending you guys
up for a nightmare because you're gonna have everyone start asking this why isn't anyone
really sensitive to the fact that these mag wheels are really only have a 10-year shelf life
why is no one even why is that not a thing it's it's not like the end just because
because we're we're you know we're not hearing about failures yet we're not hearing about if it's
gonna come and suddenly you start to see some stuff on the various forums and whatnot where oh I
you know was making a drive and suddenly I lost a wheel or something exactly that's when you'll
start to see it and the first mag wheel on a modern Porsche came with the 2018 GT2 RS with
Fisok package so that we're we're still three years away from that wheel being 10 years old
I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche is proactive like they sort of were with the Carrera GT and
sending some sort of you know very owner-friendly update option for the wheels I would be shocked
if they didn't honestly because that just seems like it's perfect for some you know plaintiff's
attorney to go after him because of that but all right you guys ready to move on
all right uh okay we're not for sure I'm good to go Paul needs to take a little break
evidently all right yeah I'm still disabled we'll see when you get back all right so here's
something uh this is an interesting topic at least hopefully it works out to be an interesting
topic and what got me on this one is looking at this 1952 Ferrari 212 that was on bring a trailer
and what I want to talk with you guys about is what constitutes real versus fake and let or tribute
I don't fake the harsh word but let's just use fake because it cuts to it and I'll give you
just to get our brains working in the same wavelength diamonds all right you guys know that
you can make you can buy essentially jewelry grade man-made diamonds and people now have
really quickly not given much of a crap about whether it was a mine diamond or a man-made
diamond inside a very short period of time the value of mine diamonds has plummeted and also
I was researching even more of this and I was thinking well where in where in history has there
been a one-for-one replica of something that was coveted that when it started being mass accepted
where that did not degrade the value of the original and I couldn't find a single example
because the pool of people that are willing to pay the extra for the real original thing
go get smaller and smaller and smaller and that another example would be thinking of like a um
well I mean you know we could talk about cars here in a second obviously but if you think about
paintings I mean people originally put a lot of value on paintings you know a landscape of
painting and all of a sudden people are starting to take pictures and then the original photographers
who are taking pictures were maligned by the artists who are doing the painting because after
all it's a landscape sure but you didn't actually put in the work and then sooner or later what
happens is people that were you know you have the world's full of very famous photographers now
is a very good photographer any less than a very good painter I don't know so what point
does something in an automotive world just reeling this back in because Sora 2 is really what got me
thinking about this and I've been sharing with you guys some of the videos that are coming out
and listeners and viewers if you're not into if you don't know what I'm talking about just google
Sora 2 it's a chat GPT product that you can make videos with voice prompts you know KC Park and
skydiving jumping into a 9-11 cabriolet while being chased by zebras right and you just give it a
verbal essentially prompts and it will create a video about a minute long and it is just absolutely
shocking you don't have to do anything other than get a you know so where's your mind go with this
obviously they're going to be longer people are starting to in full length podcasts they're
going to be doing driving videos and so at what point do people not give a crap and I was talking
to my 11 year old about this I said you know Zoe wind you know she was like I can tell if it's AI
or not so if you couldn't tell if it was AI or not and you liked the AI made video as much as you
do the one that was made by somebody at what point don't you care and she goes well if I find them
both entertaining why would I what there's no discernible difference so cars at what point
is something not real versus a tribute and don't say just because it was made in period because
that Ferrari that I put up from bring a trailer has a lot of made in period parts on it Dave you go
first oh boy um the Ferrari that you brought up which I wish I grabbed the picture of so so the
question is that is theoretically as I look at the listing that's a real car isn't it
I'm it's there you go Paul Mr. Kramer is not he's where he was doing that from the bathroom
what's doing that remotely oh my goodness I was dying because I did I knew Tim would need this
and I did load it um uh because I wanted you to see it and and I have definitely thoughts
I didn't understand the topic at first but then I definitely had thoughts about it but
go ahead go ahead so I think it's it's a great it's Dave let me answer your question so that is
that is a was originally it was originally a coupe okay and it was made into a barcada
it was completely rebodied by a company in England so it has the coupe's chassis
it's not the original motor not the original nothing on its original except either all
or a portion of the chassis I would honestly I read the description twice I couldn't discern
what it was and in the old Porsche world so go ahead no so so if that's the case if this car
had been all original because this car sold for like what $200,000 or something like that hasn't
sold yet okay so it last time it did sell it sold for 400 grand okay so it's sitting there right now
200 in its auction what would this car be worth if it was quote unquote the real deal like I mean
six to seven million okay well clearly then people even if it's sold for four people care you know
even and I have the exact same situation as well with you know with with the idea of a car that has
you know a different history than the car it sits and exists right now but I think that's a great
point because there's that's a tremendous value then for somebody who likes that car and wants
that car as part of their collection it still has a lot of that Ferrari DNA in it even though that
might have been the car or a car that was you know modified at some point so that I I think
that's really fascinating yeah clearly it's not six or seven million dollars it is still a Ferrari
it's got a Ferrari then you can enter that into Ferrari you know all kinds of different things you
can do FIA you know vintage Ferrari rallies and that thing so it is and but you're saying you're
hitting the nail on the head in my mind so you can buy that thing for less than 10% of the original
one how is that not more fun than the original one other than for bragging rights you have an
original one because you can drive that well I and I think I think the thing is when you get to the
level where you have the money to have the seven figure version those people don't want to have
a story and I don't and to give you an example this weekend on a cars and coffee Sunday I don't
have the pictures a little video I posted of what looked like a Lusso TDF driving through our cars
and coffee and I just I didn't say anything I just it was sounded cool for iMotor and basically
my friend Kip who posted did the Homer say his thing he said that's a fake I go what do you mean
it's a fake and he knows the car he says basically it is a like a 330 turned into a short Lusso
which they you know it's all Ferrari parts done you know it was expensive build probably a quarter
million dollars you know 20 years ago and people did that I knew people who took 330s and turned
them into short wheel bases all the time and he was like the work was done well and I was okay with
it he was his problem is the owner was trying to play it off like it was the real deal and I have
seen this with replica when I was in had my replica spider and I go to these shows and be a guy with
a replica speedster trying to explain how it was real and that was the the frustrating part to me
was some of the owners and just trying to build this fake provenance but when you get to this love
yeah go ahead you guys are stuck in a rut about this one particular thing I'm gonna make it real
palatable so women with diamonds right they don't care if it's lab grown or if it's a mind
they don't care it's a two or three carat diamond and that happened in an in an unbelievably short
period of time less than a year that all of a sudden you know jewelry grade lab grow diamonds
eviscerated more or less the my personal experience with this Tim so it both of my adult male
children are getting engaged both are out shopping for diamonds both of their
suit seem to be spouses wanted natural diamonds Latin not lab grown because I'm I'm with you I'm
looking at this going Jesus I mean it's you know one's $10,000 one's $40,000 or whatever for the
basically the same I don't see the difference as it relates there is no difference but they're okay
but the correct I mean it's literally the same exact thing I totally get it um this is slightly
different and I still think it's moving what you're saying is absolutely where the future is
going to be in that whole diamond thing for sure and it's happened really quickly as you've said
for sure I think the thing with cars is there's always going to be this giant disparity between
you know the real real because you can track all that provenance in these cars I mean you it's
it's whether or not does that make it really worth more you know let me make it much rather have
let me make it 15 but go ahead all right let me make it more complicated just for fun
and case is going to basically hit it out of the park you can always tell me I'm you're you're you're
losing me I mean you started with me getting chased by zebras and skydiving so if you ever see a video
that looks like that is fake I promise a comic really perfect timing all right so if somebody
all the sudden starts making a one-for-one copy of a 9-11 with a brand new body it's not a 9-11 then
and it's better in every discernible way quality-wise stem to stern same exact driving experience
it's called a 1973 9-11 s because this is happening there are two companies I know about one in Europe
and one in Asia that are making literal reproduction shells that are discernible right and I'm in
communication with both of them because I'm just sort of curious I they haven't told what the
said what the pricing is going to be at are you telling me that in a luffed and luffed uh 2021
you know 10 loops from now if someone shows up in that yellow car that's behind Paul right now
and it's a brand new version of that old car do you think anybody will care I do not think
anybody will care that's not a special car that's not an rs that's not a you know some crazy old
Porsche race car that's just a normal run of the mill they made millions of 9-11 continue no special
DNA to it no nothing no Porsche anything no motor no no you can look I have I'm well I'm Julie and I
are building a 550 and our motor and our 550 is 100 not original Porsche every single part of it
has was has been recreated by you know Germans and so you can buy a four cam 547-1 four cam motor
and have it be exactly the same the metallurgy is the same everything's the same it's
Porsche's family used the same guy that Julie and I hired over in Denmark to put replacement motors
and their four cams okay so nobody cares and this is where I'm saying I suspect this is where like
you guys don't have to agree I'm not trying to tell you on something I'm just sort of curious
about this like what do you think well golly this is a lot to absorb I read the I read the
question on our shared doc and I took it a little differently like let's say let's say you have a
race car let's say you have a 2004 GT3 996 GT3 RSR okay let's say that car wins Daytona
um I have no idea if one did in 2004 or not but let's say the race after Daytona you see bring
that year that car goes into a wall it gets retubbed okay if you don't know what retubbing
means basically if you write a race car off enough you buy a tub from Porsche you move all the parts
that aren't broken into that car at what point is this ship of Theseus not the car that won Daytona
in 2004 that was the essence of my question Casey okay good well then I think I got it so okay so
the only people that this matters to is the rich guy that owns the car and the next rich guy that's
going to buy the car I mean that that's really all it matters to but but it's a great question I mean
if you replace if you have a if you have a Carrera RS right and um it's a let's say it's a lightweight
in the the a corner gets stuffed and you need to replace a fender but the fender that you replace
isn't lightweight um thickness it's traditional touring thickness let's say it cracks the glass on
the passenger side of the car in the windshield and you have to replace the glass or glass that's
in the car that's particular to a lightweight with sacred glass that's particular to a touring
at what point is that not the car well if I knew the answer to that I would be I would probably be
able to write a book I don't well here here's the thing we're talking about the RS is there's enough
of them built that the car that has had parts replaced will have a lesser value than the car
without and actually I wrote I think I wrote a note about that I think when it comes to race cars
they're in this unique world which I've told people when they're like hey what should I collect
I always find that late model race cars that are too new to be vintage and too old to be
competitive are what to collect because no one cares about them and the thing about those cars are
they're kind of immortal they're basically their value is tied into the vin and the log book
and for whatever reason race cars get a pass and this has happened with all manufacturers
Ferrari Corvette whatever if it did something great won the championship won a very big race
and it had to get retubbed no one cares about when was the last time you saw on a famous race car
someone wondered if the engine was numbers matching they go through engines like they're
like they're potato chips and the reality is I'll tag on that in a minute Paul with the car
that I encountered recently but keep going yeah so I just feel like when people ask me you know
hey I want to build a collection in my opinion is first of all you're going to be spending seven
figures don't you're not buying building a collection with $50,000 or $100,000 cars you're
going to be buying a collection that starts at half a million each and you buy vintage race cars
because in the end original paint numbers matching panels bodies all of that is irrelevant all that
matters is what DNA sat in that seat and what trophy did they get and that to me and the fact that
so long as the factory its factory parts the motorsport division replaced them it it literally
doesn't matter because you don't have any competition if you have the RSR that one Daytona and one
Sebring and it's been rebodied different engine different body panels all it is a vin number
in a log book it's not like go buy another one like go find the other one that one Sebring like
you can't and that's what makes those cars kind of immortal and in my opinion if I was building
the collection that's what I would build it with. Casey? So I was reviewing with a client the other
day who owns significant race cars and he has a car that he's considering selling which won a
it's a very old 911 that won Daytona it's class of Daytona and that car then the next year
place very well at Daytona and very well at Sebring got all the trophies car has the original
transmission Paul it has the original engine and the majority of the body work is original so to me
if you were to line up that car with the car the following year that didn't have that stuff
the car that I'm talking about is significantly more valuable because it is it still has that DNA
in it that that that took it and that that to me is and when you see race cars that have original
engines like it's insane I mean to me it's mind-blowing especially from that era as Tim you
mentioned that and Paul that you mentioned that they get removed they get they have three engines
they rebuild another engine throw it in the car for the second half of the season but it's pretty
amazing when you do see those survivor cars come through and that to me is mind-blowing.
But you guys are focusing in on this little tiny niche because that's ground that's easy to protect
is you're talking about historically significant cars what my premise is is that the vast majority
of cars that the listeners and viewers are buying themselves are not ever going to be historically
significant the cars we saw it loofed 10% were historically significant and my premise is is
that the future is not going to care they're going to buy something for the experience and I'm
going to say this too because I love your opinions on this so Gooding Auction a few years ago a gorgeous
550 was there looking at it loved it inspired me in a lot of different ways with our project
and I started talking with somebody and it happened to belong to a very famous car collector
out of New York who maybe had his own TV show in the 80s and the guy went on to tell me that the car
was built around essentially a piece of chassis the size of a shoebox that that was all there was
original on the car the guy may have been telling a story that happens a lot but that was the essence
of it and so this tiny little car piece of 550 whatever chassis number it was and then the frame
was new the body was new engineers new transmission was new because you can get all that stuff because
Germans are amazing you know you know reproducing all that stuff and there it was being marketed as
original car based on this tiny little you know amount of original chassis real or fake
is there three other ones where they used other parts of the car out there
I mean cars get created out of in plates I mean a big plate could exist but that's what I'm saying
Casey's is so does that make it real or fake if it all this is just a been plate well it's goes back
to these the assist ship yeah how much of that ships real if you replace every single piece of wood
and do people care and I guess you're saying on the extremes that I I totally believe I think
for the people that I deal with that trade in insanely rare special cars it matters I believe
of really people that are going to spend millions of dollars on a 550 would look at that and they
would hire somebody to come look at the car and they'd say look at this thing tell me what you
think about it and they would tear it apart but I don't know I didn't see the car because I believe
that in the top echelon of vehicle collectors like some of the people that I represent they pay
people that are a lot smarter than me to go do these inspections to make sure that it's the
real deal I mean there was that famous case a while ago about that same comedian bought a car
that was misrepresented and it resulted in huge lawsuits that's something I never want to partake
in so if I come across something we're talking about Rosie O'Donnell to the famous 100% we're
not talking about Jerry no I thought it was Fran Drescher but that's where we are so but
you know so I'm glad Dave got a kick out of that but anyway that's that's an obscure poll Casey
which is what I like I mean there we go and we're no no no old fashions into this morning but you
know it it's an interest it's an interesting position and like I said I believe it only matters
to the person buying the car and the person that's willing to pay all the money for the car yep I
agree well okay I think we've beaten this one into the ground listeners viewers let us know what you
think because frankly I think this is going to be yet unresolved so we've talked about two potentially
controversial things shelf life of magnesium Porsche wheels and also is it real or is it fake do you
guys want to keep going it's up to you I think we should do this or that I agree I knew you guys
weren't gonna want to do the EV thing I knew it yeah all right let's move on I don't blame you I had
electric cars yonor Dave Dave does he already talked about electric cars today hey case hey Dave
ask Casey about his day current man ask Casey about his 964 and what happened because he just
threw it through a barb at you I got the world's nicest cigarette lighter USB adapter
I was telling you that I can 3d print a insert you can stick on that USB the one that doesn't fit
in the stupid ass tray or excuse me the lighter and it'll be just as good we'll we'll sell those
too that'll be part of the full throttle talk collection yeah that and dog bandanas
hey you know we got it we got all the pieces covered Casey why don't you go first this or that
okay cool so I one of my clients sent me this car and I think it's a it looks like a terrible idea
this is a a 2001 S62 powered which correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's the engine from
comparable m5 of the era coupled with a six speed manual transmission it's finished it's a
short wheelbase originally a short wheelbase 7 740 finished in esterel blue which is probably the
best BMW color of all time and one of the best BMWs of all time if you guys have never driven
a short wheelbase one so they're freaking awesome we used to call them sporty shorties sporty shorties
and the only thing to me that would have made it better would be those split dished five spoke
wheels or split 10 you know the ones I'm talking about that I think came on the 540 and parallels
of that era so this car has who knows how many miles on it because it's you can't even tell if
it's real because it there's so many different parts in this thing but it's got um the the it's
got a zhp shift knob so the driving while awesome people will certainly love it and it's got it's
just all over the place but it is a really interesting car this car like I said who knows
how many miles because it's got all kinds of stuff swapped but hammered for 54 grand um
and the other car so I was thinking q ships right I was thinking things that you could drive for
long distances and the other car that I had interest in was this car um this is a 2005
e55 wagon uh in silver there you go Tim that one's for you the other Tim uh the other silver
Porsches Tim so silver Mercedes e55 wagon this one had a bunch of miles on it too but it showed
really well and it looked like it had a bunch of history with it this one sold for a similar price
48 grand plus fees back in June of this year um I had a special part in my heart for those uh those
e55s actually have a wheel of one of them still because when I worked at the dealership in college
I used to drive around e55s all the time and I thought they were cool they made great super
charger noises so those are the options we have a Frankenstein manual transmission 740i
with an m5 power plant in it or we have a pretty original uh 2005 e55 wagon those are awesome choices
Paul you go first good job Casey oh um yeah I I I'll take I love a sporty shorty and the e38 body
is one of the coolest a manual that that I actually wish they would have put the v10 from the e60
because that would have been badass because that I think is one of the best motors at BMW made that
no one cares about um I gotta take the the astral blue it it just tugs at my heart strings um it's
just unique you'll be the only one with that thing and get rid of those ac schnitzer wheels
and put on uh some m parallels how about you Dave which would you choose oh not never the minute
you had me at hello with the blue car for sure the BMW the e38 iPhone 2 old sporty shorties um
I just think that was BMW's pinnacle for a big sedan it was uh it's just a gorgeous car I still
love the proportions of it um you know when you roll up on one from behind I think it's just a
gorgeous look the balance of that car is fantastic and uh that particular color is absolutely stunning
so I'm I would absolutely take that one have you guys ever driven one of those long wheel base with
the v12's I've driven all I've driven all the variants the v12's the sporty shorty just a regular 740
i l um they they my favorite thing in those cars if you remember and I don't know why more did it
but the seat the back of the seat you know you have normal tilt on the back it clam shells
it curls so if you take the back of a seat you split it in half if you think about the human
body the the we kind of lean forward and this thing would just it was like a leather it was
like leather spooning you while you drive it was so good I love those seats sorry I agree tip threw
up in his mouth I just yeah I was wondering where you're gonna go that's just like you run yourself
off the cliff I would 100% choose that one as well Dave do you have two choices I don't see anything in
the sheet no I do but I do these are these are these were almost tied back to the last conversation
as well because the two choices that I'm presenting today are both in the $200,000 range the car behind
me is an 88 one of 31 slant nose Targa turbos made at Porsche this car I've talked about on the show
before this is a car that got damaged early in its life we brought this car back to being the Targa
that it was born on right so if this car was had been unmodified and had not any kind of previous
bad history this would be a four or five hundred thousand dollar car this car is probably more in
the $200,000 range right now because of its history but we've put the car back together
beautifully it's fantastic it looks great it's on display right now at the Porsche dealer here in
town and this car is probably a car that's worth a couple hundred thousand dollars versus our
star from the Lufka cool show here and just for the record that red car originally was born as a
slant nose originally was you know the whole thing and just that's important to mention that because
that is a really rare car and it's real it's a real car real serial number real Porsche certificate
there's nothing about that car that is not a hundred percent what it was other than it now
doesn't have the original Targa bar welded to the car and it doesn't have the original glass
everything else on the car is as it was in 1980 the car's only got 17,000 miles on it okay similar
car roughly 200 grand this was a bill we did for this client this car he's told me this car is
available this is the copper brown metallic car that we just displayed it is a 78 SC but we
dripped this car to the tub bare metal full restoration every bit of the car is new it's
still got kind of its stock motor but all refreshed transmission interiors custom
it's got kind of a roof front bumper setup and a custom rear bumper setup
you know it's a great car it's fantastic and you know if you want to make this into a cool hot rod
you add a little horsepower to it and boom you know it's a freaking phenomenal looking car with the
nickel plated trim and everything you know around this car it's just fantastic car
both cars think of both as being roughly two and a thousand dollars which one do you pick
kasey you go first i drooled over that brown car um a lot um on saturday when we were hanging
out in your booth and saturday night the details on it are crazy the thing he didn't point out is
it's got um it's got 964 uh shark fins on the side of it and rocker covers which i'd never seen
somebody apply to an earlier car it's super rad all the trim on the car as dav said he went through
the process with me with the sara coating and then they tried different i guess they used what a
mat or a satin um clear over top of it that car to me was insane um that but between those two
cars i'm not a big slant nose guy so the decision for me is easy i but even if it was a normal 930
turbo i'd still pick the car behind dav because the build quality on that thing was so right
so you would choose a normal 930 turbo over that car i mean you know not a slant nose not all
the 1980s blitz you would still choose that over that i'm not it i'm not a huge 930 guy to be honest
especially 930 slant noses i look after two slant noses and an 89 targa with a five speed and i'd
still pick that car that i think they're better driving cars sc's that still have great steering
feel all that stuff goes away awesome what do you how about uh you paul which would you choose
um i'm a 930 fan but between slant nose and targa i just i it kills the 930 part to me and
then you add the fact that just the value of it's always going to be that's going to be the sales
guy of me goes oh that car will always be hard to sell because the guy who's got 200 grand will
spend three or four hundred grand so he doesn't have to have a story that being said the copper
car looks beautiful i would say that if it were mine and i had an empty checkbook i go hey dav
i'll take the copper car take that three liter out go put a 27 mfi rs spec motor 9 11 83 as close
as you can because i think imagine that car kind of built as a like a euro carrera tribute thing um
and i always tell people if you drive a really proper 27 mfi car in that kind of body you'll
stop shoving weird motors in these early these old cars i like the brown car better too and uh
all the reasons you guys stated and he didn't mention it's got kick-ass air conditioning
that he put in uh done check exactly but i'll say the reason i like it better and i think you
guys are kind of hitting at this too is it's less flashy you can have more fun in that brown car
no one's gonna look to copper car sorry no one's gonna look twice at it um you know i'm at a point
in my life where i'm not trying to draw more attention to myself that's for damn sure can one
of you guys help me out with my two choices and i know i put four options up can you guys this
9 6 so here's my this or that a 2016 Porsche i'm actually especially interested in Casey's
opinion oh i so i loaded these pictures because i wasn't sure if you're gonna the other ones
can you do the other ones yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay thank you paul i really appreciate it
so it's a 2016 and these are both sold so we know what they sold for and uh you know 9 11 r versus
a 2019 uh Porsche 9 11 speedster i think we could argue that they're the best of the
that particular 991.1 was arguably the best was the r and the 991.2 arguably the best was the
speedster you know if you guys want to debate that we can it you know i'm open to different
interpretations of what the best means but yes so and he'll put up the pictures here in a second
for the view those of you who are playing at home hopefully soon uh here here they come sorry
i it's funny i predicted i predicted that you would do uh the other two so um what happens when
tim gives us you know two choices and he takes four right i did i not say he was own damn rules
i did i did three last week and i got chest eyes all right so there's a 9 11 r all right
so there's the speedster thank you paul and by the way if you guys read my notes i did say
that one of you guys could steal my two choices right if you wanted to all right so uh i have the
speedster i love the car brilliant car you know i don't know let's say other than that um the uh i
mean just looking at that picture right there makes me want to wish i was there driving it right now
some of the best driving experience i've ever had a car and are in the speedster
i had a touring i've had two tourings and between the touring experience and the and that's
essentially what a 9 11 r is and the speedster experience to me the speedster experience is
easily 10 times better because you can hear the engine you can hear that have all the experiences
of you know driving in my particular example in appalachia and having more of a you know a
visceral experience than the constant tire noise of the tires making all the ruckus in the back of
the car paul you're going to go last since you're already snickering at me kasey what would you
they both sold for 450 so kasey what would you choose and why um i wish the i don't mind the
heritage package on this the speedster but i prefer it to be a solid color honestly um we have a
listener that i engage with from time to time who's got a bruster green or irish green one
but that would be perfect in that car but um i've a considerable amount of seat time in both of
those um and i would pick the speedster every single day of the week it's i think the engine's
a little bit more interesting um but they drive very similarly in my opinion um but being that
the top comes off and the speedster gives it more of a sense of occasion and i think it's a more
interesting car i'm going to say this you guys might find this interesting so we have that car
and we have a 718 spider rs again i always think whether i should say these things because i know
i'm going to get crap for it but i'll give it to you just say it just say it i'll give it to you
this the speedster is honestly made better than the spider but better than the 718 when you when
like i was replacing i was putting a lightweight battery in the 718 i took apart all those you
know bits and bobs it's not painted and there's other little type you can see there's the speedster
is absolutely put together in all the places that you would never look and i do look better
and just it's fascinating because those special cars really are made at a higher level
at least in that particular example so david what would you choose and why
i would take the uh the speedster as well i've always found those to be extremely attractive
cars um now you know normally i would be very concerned about what it might do to my hair
to run with the top down but however with that not a fact or any longer i think the speedster is
just a extremely attractive car i don't even mind that one although i'm not quite sure what's
going on those front fenders if that's a just an image issue a photo issue or if that's really some
kind of two-tone thing on the front no it is that's the heritage that's the heritage pack to me it
looks like someone who taped off their car for a track day and that's a bad thing okay if that's
the heritage pack i didn't realize that on that car i mean i i got it with the uh you know understood
the okay it's really just the front bumper it's a front bumper and then there's darts but that's
basically what they did to race cars in the 50s and 60s 356 in particular those interiors which
i'm always obviously drawn to as well i just think the interiors in those heritage package cars are
fantastic you spend a lot of time in the car i like to look around in the car and see interesting
fabrics and things like that in the car so that was that's my choice for sure kramer what do you
what about you what would you choose and why man um you guys all have good points um and i
my two issues with the speedster is i just don't like convertibles and i know you can put in speedsters
is is more of a convertible and i hate the rear ends i hate the way the rear ends look and what's
worse than that is when you're behind one of these in their rear end and that stupid wing the thing
that comes up i now granted you're driving the car you don't see it i just don't like that and
honestly i think if it wasn't before we just saw that um it was the intercooler episode where they
compared the we talked about last episode the rs 4.0 the 911 r and the new st i think if it wasn't
for me watching that and re falling in love with the 911 r um i would choose the speedster but there's
something about the 911 r and here's the thing is tim you brazed over you're like hey i had a
touring so it's the same nine same as the 911 r which is like fighting words to the 911 r i mean
experience as far as the noise about i know but no but you said oh i had a touring and so i got
the 911 r experience so we both know dirk lair and he's sort of a no bullshit guy and he had and he
that out and bleep that out yeah and he hasn't sorry i did one earlier it's it's really hard for
me not to to curse me he has a 911 r and he's had a touring and he's not doing it to boost the
value but he said there is is it worth the the the hundred you know now it's about 200 000 double the
value for the 911 r that in terms of different maybe not but it's he said that there was this
specialness that you kind of lost on future cars sort of the last of this raw analog whatever you
want to say so me personally i would take it almost in this spec that you see except for i
would put green stripes on it um even though this was the bp heritage it was technically red but
everyone thought it was green but i like the green but it's got ceramics it's got i think it's the
single mass flywheel need that which by the way cracks pepper was a single mass flywheel
like i was asking a collector well if you got the dual mask and they they wear out eventually
can't you just put the single mass on right yeah you're there so like i don't understand
that's a whole weird conversation with collectors like oh because but if you change the flywheel is
is it original is it nice is it fake but my answer my answer is 911 r my 11 r but you guys
you guys made a compelling argument i almost changed my answer well you know those cars you
remember what those things were selling for when they came out in the day i like over a million
bucks isn't that incredible i mean yeah that just astonishing to me and you know we're not
going to talk about this week but i've been kind of tracking the st market because i think it's
you know giving us an indication with the other special edition cars are going to do
peak and then you know kind of come down really fast but we'll talk about that on next show
all right so clearly paul is wrong and the speedster wins all right paul you're up next
and going a different direction we talk this is sort of going on to last week old timer versus
young timer and these two cars ended auction at the same time and it was kind of interesting
and a little disheartening there was this 1972 desirable side oil door one year only
911 t coupe five speed manual factory sports seats that were pretty decent
he i would say the downside is it would have been an mfi motor because it was a us car they put
carbs on it it happens all the time the seller took great photos he didn't do a very good job of
like this is a car where you find out if its numbers matching and it's and it's not easy these
days because they make you go to portia classic but there's some ways around it but he had good
photography his engagement was a little vague he put compression numbers up but when you looked at
the when i looked at this car it sold a week ago for 69500 hammered hammered for 69500 a dry
straight compression numbers pretty decent i think it was a everyone said at the end after people like
bullied it it was a good deal and then the same day this bad boy closed so this is a this is a
shop right now is it really it is it just rolled in two days ago i can't wait to hear more about
so this car to me screamed sorry dave i it screamed frankenstein um this was what you built in 2014
because the market was going up and you thought you could cash in they put they took a 74 9 11 and
put the painted it linen gray they put turbo flares on which i'm pretty sure the turbo flares might
have been hung on wrong they might seem too low there's something awkward about the stance
then they threw in these weird seats with like gti interior everything about and then the the killer
is they just got the stock two seven cis motor they slap carbs on with i mean it looks like the
firewalls jiffy pop if you if you know what that is from the did you not hear the bit where he said
that's one of his customers cars dude did you are you just totally being insensitive i know because
here's the thing is i'm setting them up because what's gonna happen is dave's gonna make this car
right this car to me what it screams as a used car salesman who sees people sending the cars
going what do you think this car to me screams shortcut shortcut shortcut how do i make it look
cool and here's the part that just made me throw up in my mouth it hammered for 92 500 it hammered
for 23 000 more than this very pretty 72 9 11 that looked like no one messed with
and and it goes back to our conversation someone will go pay 25 grand more for something that
i swear to god i think needs a lot more work i think that i'm afraid to even see what the
electricals look like in that car um and dave you know i'm glad it's in dave's hand because i think
dave will make it what it should be i think it's fundamentally a good car but dave what would you
choose between the yellow one and the linen one wow wow so i mean the yellow one is a bargain it was
a bargain now obviously i have not seriously looked at this the gray one i was out of town
it rolled in it was in my shop when i got back from out of town so i haven't even really given it
a serious look look look as i look at that three-quarter shop paul that you just had up a second ago
something does seem a little off with the stance i'm not sure if the tires aren't far enough out on
those vendors because they do look does that do it it's the perspective but do those not look like
european bumper things did look at paul look at that for sure there's a euro so that's a great
that's a gray market car then no no no it's not a great market car because i had the same issue
when i first saw it like because the front valence on the car is off a three two so this car is kind
of set up to look like even the dash the inside it's got the 86 plus dash and it with the wide vents
so somebody took great pains on this car to make this car almost forward dated to a late 80s kind
of car wow with the wide fenders and that's my sense is that wide fenders on a Porsche for a lot of
guys they just get lots to you over those i think the car sits a little high right now that's one of
my other things i've had measured it paul but here's the problem with this car we had this we had this
with a couple other cars that came to us that had turbo flares added on putting turbo flares is so
hard on these cars it is incredibly hard and what you look at is look at the front fender and basically
when you come off the top of the fender it should go right into this right into the flare but if you
look at this car it kind of goes down just about an inch and then goes into the flare i think what
happened is someone hung these flares a little too low so then what they had to do is raise the
right height so you got this car where it looks like the tires are fit the wheel well right but then
it looks like it's standing on its tiptoes also i think they put 17s on which i freaking hate
there's but my point is like you have this beautiful no one has touched car for $23,000 left
or you go buy the tammy fey baker uh you know facelift which i think is that problems one of
the sports seats in that yellow car worth alone right i mean that's those are those are 12 15 to
20 grand $15,000 sports seats i mean that's hilarious if they're original right which they
know they are i looked at them they're the correct they're the correct double lockers they
those are original that car i think is more original than most people think that he finally
threw a picture up on the floors with all the carpet out and the floor and the people like
oh look at all that rust it's the freaking glue from the carpet that never had been removed
someone got a really good car because sadly this hurts my heart unless it's a really cool early
longhood i think the people who want driver longhoods is kind of fading away because they'd
rather go buy that crap evidently so what would you choose dave you have to choose one i you know
and i'll say this we will obviously do a little work i think most of what we're gonna do on that
is interior work on the fey car having said that the value on the yellow car is what would draw me
to the yellow car that's a that's a hell of a buy on that yellow car for for the money that i mean
i like interesting colors like is that light yellow paul it's light yellow and i think great
photography but they watched it they i think they watched it a little bit and but people don't realize
if you really polish light yellow it should look like a tennis ball like a that almost greenish
really i just think that's an interesting neat color i would i would take that car i would buy
that car based on the value kasey what do you think both these cars are older than you so um
the where was the yellow car listed paul it was both bring a trailer both close sorry i meant
location uh location was hold on a second 72 uh washington so one car was in washington the
yellow car was in washington and the uh tami fey baker special was in florida oh big surprise sorry
florida so my my two cents um i mean being that they weren't able to prove the heritage of the
yellow car you know you can easily put that car in a flatbed and take it to a portia classic dealer
and they can get a ctc for it which is the move and that probably would have been worth 10 000
dollars on that car um you everybody this is everybody's going to know my pick i mean i don't
even need to say it but that that yellow car especially being that it's a 72 i don't fit super
well in the earlier caros but i would probably maybe get a set of i'd throw those uh in a box and
get a set of like some sort of special seats that dav could make me just to fit a little bit more
comfortably in the car but i don't know i mean pop out windows come on i mean how rad is that i mean
get the dav seats like kasey just said sell those seats put the money in the s and p 500 okay and then
whatever goes wrong in the car the appreciation of the stock in the s and p 500 for the sell the
original sport seats will more than cover the repairs i'll turn the original sports seats into
working mfi back on the car that's what i heard that that's that's probably the move but no i'd
pick that yellow car and heartbeat yeah i think we all would you know there you go but so there it
is there's you know four nerds here they're all choosing the car that supposedly isn't you know
holding value so maybe we're completely wrong maybe these cars are going to just you know find
their own following of folks that are kasey's age and younger which would be kind of cool so guys
we i have great news for you we've broken our record for the longest podcast we've ever done
oh sorry no it's fine i think hopefully we everyone enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed doing
at least i did uh do you guys want to go to listener questions for the next show or do you
want to do them today it's up to you next show next show all right next show i agree all right so
listen on behalf of all of us here at full throttle talk we want to thank you for helping keep this
podcast much to our absolute bemusement and almost dismay so popular amongst all the primarily
portion nerds out there for those of you who met with david kasey and i at luft it was real honor
and pleasure to meet with all of you please help us get the word out like and subscribe if you're on
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About this episode
An engaging discussion unfolds around the Luft 11 Porsche Show, exploring topics such as forged versus magnesium wheels, the authenticity of classic cars, and the debate between real versus fake in the automotive world. The hosts share personal experiences from recent car events, including a rally and the unique atmosphere of Luft. They also dive into listener questions, comparing iconic models like the 911 R and Speedster, and the value of restored versus original cars. The episode wraps up with insights on car culture and the evolving market for classic vehicles.
approachable car displays
carbon fiber wheels
cast wheels
EV
forged wheels
Formula E
Formula One
hypercar class
Lamborghini
Luftgekühlt
BMW 3 Series
BMW 5 Series
BMW 7 Series
BMW M3
BMW M5
Chevrolet Corvette
Citroen SM
Dodge Charger
Ferrari 195 S
Ferrari Enzo
Ford Mustang
Lucid Air
Lucid Gravity
Mazda MX-5 / Miata
Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 (W109)
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Roadster (W198)
Mercedes-Benz SL
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster (C199)
Porsche 356
Porsche 550 Spyder
Porsche 904
Porsche 911
Porsche 914
Porsche 917
Porsche 944
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Carrera RS
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Macan
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Supra
Original notes
Welcome back to Full Throttle Talk! In this episode we cover Luft 11, the world’s most unique Porsche gathering—part car show, part cult, and pure heaven for air-cooled Porsche fans. If you’ve ever wondered what makes Luft so different from every other automotive event, this is your insider take.
We also dive into wheels: forged vs cast, carbon fiber vs magnesium. What’s actually worth your money? How long do carbon fiber wheels really last? Should you ever trust old mag wheels? If you’ve debated Fuchs vs modern aftermarket, this is for you.
Next, we get controversial: real vs fake Ferraris. What actually makes a classic car “real”? VIN tags, logbooks, or originality? We dissected the Bring a Trailer Ferrari 212 listing that sparked the debate.
Other topics include:
Luft 11 highlights from Porsche nerds who’ve been to almost every Luft event.
Mazda Miata factory restorations and the new Toyota + Mazda sports car collab.
Lucid EV sales jump and whether the new EV 781 will flop or succeed.
This or That: Porsches vs Ferraris, wagons vs sedans, and more.
Plus, our brand-new Pop Quiz segment—test your car nerd knowledge with us.
Whether you’re into Porsche 911s, Ferrari history, wheel tech, or EV drama, this episode has something for every true car enthusiast.
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more Porsche, Ferrari, and collector car talk every week!
🤝 Connect with the Hosts
Paul Kramer — 📞 714-335-4911 | 📧 [email protected] | 📱 IG/FB: @autokennelCasey Parkin — 📧 [email protected] Van Epps — 📞 704-799-7680 | 📧 [email protected] | 📱 IG/FB: @sonderwerksTim Harris — 📞 512-758-0206 (text only) | 📧 [email protected]
Full Throttle Talk
Tim Harris
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