Luft 11 Porsche Show | Forged, Mag vs Carbon Wheels Explained | Real vs Fake Ferrari Debate

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horse power meets conversation from

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Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

Welcome back, it's Tim Harris with the guys, and this is, of course, Full Throttle Talk.

We have got an absolutely intense show for all of you today.

We are going to be talking, frankly, a lot about LUFT.

We have eight different topics that we're going to focus on.

LUFT is topic three, and I have a feeling we will not get to any topics beyond topic

three.

But with that said, if we get past the LUFT conversation, we're going to be talking about

different kinds of wheels, cast wheels, forged wheels, carbon fiber wheels, magnesium wheels.

And I have to say, in doing the research for that topic, I learned a lot, especially about

magnesium wheels, which I didn't know.

We're going to have, hopefully, an interesting conversation about really what makes something

essentially real and authentic versus a tribute, or maybe even fake.

We'll probably not talk about the 780 or the new, the Spider Boxster EV replacement thing.

We have a great this or that, where we're going to be showing you two different cars,

and we're going to decide, and you're going to help us decide which one you choose,

one or the other.

And then we also have a few really good listener questions.

So without any further delay, let's start out with our usual question.

Mr. Van Epps, what did you do in cars this week?

I'm recovering still, Tim, from this week in cars.

It was one hell of a week, and starting with the event that I attended just prior to LUFT,

which was Target Carolina, I believe the 10th edition of Target Carolina.

So one year younger than LUFT, but the image I have behind me, this was the largest.

It's held at Little Switzerland, North Carolina.

That's where it's been for the last few years, and I'll cover this camera up so you guys can see.

This is kind of part of the group that was there to listen to the fearless leader,

Mr. Charles Stanley, there standing up on the wall, giving us our drivers meeting before the

day was to begin.

So this is really a two-day driving event that starts in Little Switzerland and then drives

out probably 200 miles, 200, 300 miles a day that we go out to a lunch destination someplace,

and then back to Little Switzerland for the evening.

And it was fantastic.

It really was.

Let me see if I can pull up here.

Let's do this.

There we go.

You know you're driving Paul crazy talking about a rally, right?

He's sweating.

Precisely, but I think we know he's been cleared now to go to his next one,

even though he's driving some mommy wagon or something, I'm not sure.

But this was kind of the lineup.

About 110 cars or so that were there at this at the start in four different groups.

So we ripped out in that particular morning to rain the night before,

so we had to go a little slow on the first morning just as the roads dried out.

Did everybody make it?

Did any of those cars decide to take a hiatus during the sojourn?

Listen, there were several mechanical issues, of course.

And this year in particular, like my group, I led a group out when I called in last week

from the start of that group, led that group out.

And I think by the time at the front end of the event, I started with 10 cars.

By the end of the event on day two, we were down to three.

I'm not sure if that's some function of my driving or that we just had,

you know, we had, we just had a good, I mean, seriously, we had a good time,

but people move off into different groups and so on.

And some people don't want to go as fast.

And, you know, it's just, it's just one of those things.

We had a terrific time.

I know I certainly enjoyed it.

And there we go.

I'm coming back into focus here slightly.

Really, really nice group of people.

And we kind of renew every year, and that's kind of the nice thing.

Everybody gets together for this and a couple of other events that we have on an annual basis.

And then we're driving these mountains.

You get to know these roads.

A few people had some little minor skirmishes, myself included,

but we won't dial into that too deeply.

Nothing that you don't expect.

Wait, I want to dial in.

Where'd you wreck?

I know.

What happened to Blackbody?

What traffic violation did you get?

What livestock did you get?

I got the front end of my car a little kissed as we were transitioning from some

asphalt roads to a gravel road, which came up on me a little unexpectedly.

And the car got a little, you know, the front got kissed a little bit as it slightly went off.

Translated.

That's okay. I was able to drive.

You ran out of town.

I was able to drive the car for the rest of the day.

And we continued to rip it up.

It was good.

Can we see a photo?

No, we can't.

Come on.

I want to see.

It's a little photo here, Paul.

I promise I might show you a photo offline, but I do want to know.

So how many of these have you done, Paul, over the years?

I was just telling the doc to this because he thought it was a new thing.

I would say in the last 25 years, over 100.

We're talking about rallies.

Rallys, viewers and listeners.

Correct.

Bibing rallies with hard times.

So, you know, by the way, we call it rallies because that's sort of the

colloquialism with our little guys into it.

For the average person, like my doctor, I could not call it a rally because then he

turned rally into when are you going to be doing the race?

It's basically, I keep telling people, it's a vintage car tour.

That's what we're doing.

We're doing a tour on public roads, not a race, not a timed event.

All right.

So, we're going to talk about Dave, we'll talk about Lufthier in a second because I

know that's the other thing that you did this week.

So, Casey, I think I know what your answer is, but what did you do in cars this week?

I didn't do much other than exactly what we're going to talk about in the upcoming segment,

but I wanted to give a shout out.

I won't bring it out in the next segment, but there's this great shop in North Carolina

named Sonderworks and the owner of this group that really builds awesome cars was kind enough

to make my dog three specific Porsche fabric bandanas.

The photo is cut off a bit, but you can see this one is a nice houndstooth with a

gunner racing built 966 in the background.

So, that is the shout out that I will give in this segment and I'm happy to go more into it

later, but it was an awesome time.

It was wild.

And that was the perfect car show dog.

She was very calm.

She didn't mind the crowds.

She was a very sweet pooch.

And she was wiped out that night for sure, Carly.

She was really tired, but no, awesome.

We'll talk more about it here shortly.

I bet you at Lufthier, it was an easy five-mile walk just walking around seeing all the things easily.

Yeah, and that was too much for a dog with bad back legs, which is what we're dealing with now.

So, all is good though.

All is good.

She's chilling out in the other room right now, so we're good.

So, Paul, what did you do in cars this week?

Well, besides the FOMO from being at home and not there, which by the way,

I was supposed to go to that Lufthier Colt back in 2020 when it was going to be in North Carolina

and they were doing this whole cross-country tour, which I've always wanted to drive all

the way across country, and it would have been the perfect time because there was a group of people

that were doing it with support and drive out there and it would have been tied into

Charles Target, Carolina.

And so, when I saw it all, what made it bittersweet was the fact that we were supposed to do that

trip in 2020 and I was kind of hoping that they would reignite that cross-country tour.

It was basically like, hey, everyone, meet in Utah and then there was like three more stops

across country, tag into Target, Carolina, which I know Charles is bugging me to go.

But instead, I had to just wallow around in Orange County car culture, which was okay.

And there's a club called the Finish Line here in Orange County.

It's like all of these other private car condominiums that are ridiculously expensive.

I mean, $2 million is the starting point for an unfurnished place to put five cars.

One of the owners in there, a friend of mine, Kip, his Instagram Swank rides, if you get a

chance to check it out, he decided that they were going to try to break the world record of

number of 300 SLs gathered in one place. And some of my other clients who have condos in there

were sending me pictures, which I'm not allowed to post, of the transports bringing cars in from

all over. They had 76 300 SLs in that showed up at this venue. And if you go to my Instagram,

I tried to post it. I have sort of a quick time video of all of it. But here's the funny thing,

one of the better parts of that, and I was sitting there looking at was as I'm standing there waiting

for it, an Enzo pulls in and just parks like this is just regular, you know, plea parking.

And I was trying to think and we I was standing next to a friend of mine, I was like, when was

the last time you saw just an Enzo? Like not on the Concord Italiano, but just this guy came to

cars and coffee from Mercedes. And there was Enzo. And then what made it better and I kind of kicked

myself for not taking a picture of both this parked right next to it. I mean, talk about like,

to have these two cars parked next to each other, and no one really cared. And I'm looking at them.

And I got to tell you, I think the Enzo aged better. And, and then going back to the SLs,

there was a whole line of let's point this out. So people some of you know, we have a lot of

iTunes listeners. I know, here we go. We're showing an Enzo and we're showing a Carrera GT.

That's I chose the Enzo. Yeah, he chose the Enzo. So I think the the kicker is it's silver.

Silver Enzos are silver and white Enzos are super dope. Black and red Enzos are pretty boring,

but silver Enzos that that really does an awesome job showing off the lines of that car.

But what do you guys think about the same owner? No, no, no, two different guys to two totally.

Like, if you would have seen him, this guy was your older, kind of sophisticated Ferrari,

not wearing red shoes, kind of subtle guy. This guy, I'm sure is a Lambrough. You know, he had,

he had like a gnarly banner across the windshield, which I took off with some kind of vulgar

thing. I mean, you could see inside he's got like race seats. It, I mean, maybe that's what

detracted from it. But but like looking at the front of these, you know, this looks very late

90s, early 2000s. It does. But this, especially when you look at current Ferrari design language,

I think this is such a pretty car. It and when it first came out, I thought it was two Formula

One. It was like they put pontoon fenders on a Formula One car. And I think over time it has aged

better. Now those headlights look way different in that color, like the headlight shape and so on,

just obviously the silver really accentuates that headlight shape versus when you see it in black

or something. Yeah. And so going back to what Casey said, I don't know if it was red or black,

like you see these, if I would have liked it as much. I don't know if it was the fact that I

haven't, I can't remember the last time I saw one even at a cars and coffee in Southern California,

of all places. So it just sort of kind of caught me off guard and was sort of that, you know,

when you see it a car show, it's like something unusual. And the irony is everyone's so focused on

all, you know, all of these Mercedes that no one really is looking at it. Can we go back to that?

So you said there are nearly 80 300 s else there. Do you guys have any clue how many 300 s else are

still alive? Like how many still exist? I don't either. So with I, there's no way you'd know

this, but I wonder how many of those were domestic like us based 300 s else versus people that brought

them in just so they could have met that, you know, though, I mean, no, no, these were all

here's the irony. These were all Southern California based. That's incredible. Honestly,

because what they were doing is a lot of people, I would say 90% of the owners of condos in that

facility, that that's sort of like a, a measuring contest. They all have huge

love me warehouses, garage mahal's or whatever you want to call it outside anywhere in the valley

to San Diego. So they were bringing in s else from their other location. But you're right. And

and there was a couple, there was a really insanely nice done SLR. I was super excited

like, Oh my God, there's an SLR. But then someone reminded me that there's what two in the world.

And they're, I think the museum has them both. But then they had this whole row of what I really

liked, which were the call, they were basically a group of Colorado grand s else that didn't

bother to clean themselves afterwards. And what was really because it ended a week ago. So there

was like 10 super the dirtiest I've ever seen an SL and you know, isn't that incredible that that

car is from the early 1950s. When you look at those things and just isolation, just, you know,

it is so beautiful. I don't know if you like to drive. I've never driven one. But wow.

Yeah, I was going to ask Paul, have you driven one? I drove one once I don't fit really well.

That's why the steering wheel does this whole tilt thing to get in. But from what I understand

for people friends of mine who do rally them outside of like, they're like a 356 they're very

contemporary to drive. And that's why they're so popular on on Milamiglia, California Millay,

Colorado grand, all you know, all of these high end rallies, because you qualify, and you have a car

that I talked to Magnus, he drove one Mercedes gave him one to drive in the California Millay,

or no, no, the Milamiglia. And he said, outside of just the hours they're in, he goes, I can't

imagine being any other car. It was it was very, very doable. So I think they're really cool.

He's like six, two, he's like Casey height. And he was with his now wife at the he was girl from

the time that he's with his wife, who's also, you know, six foot tall, and they had their hats on

and they fit in there. He said the only thing is in the goings, it does get warm. It gets really

warm. Yeah. Alright, so pop quiz, you guys ready? Alright, the Nurburgring, the Nurburgring dare all

I made him a lot harder. Alright, so the Porsche test right so this is a, I think the first time

I did this to annoy you guys, Dave was actually on his rally. So Dave, here's the deal. I'm going to

give you guys a quiz question that I'm going to give you four answers and you have to choose which

one is right. And I'll tell you the worst at this so far is Kramer. So don't listen to him.

All right, Porsche test drivers often set lap records on the Nurburgring. What bonus did one

test driver say was waiting if you kept the throttle pinned through certain blind crests?

Option A, an extra second off your lap time. That sounds like a nice Germanic answer, right?

Option B, free beers at the factory. Option C, a seat in the hospital. Option D, a date with a

Michelin tire girl. Alright, so if you kept the throttle pinned on the Nurburgring, which of those

four things was waiting for you according to a Porsche test driver who wants to go first? Paul?

I mean, my first thought was, I was hoping when the answer was you get air because I figured you

would get air somewhere doing that. You're procrastinating. Answer, son. Free beers at the

factory. Okay, free beers. Casey, you're next. Hospital seat, hospital bed. That was my second guess.

Dave, you're next. I was going to go with the second off lap time. It's clearly not beers at

the factory. That would violate some kind of regulations, I'm sure. According, here's the

answer. According to test drivers, if you stay flat through certain blind crests,

it's hospital or hero, not officially sanctioned but very Porsche. Casey, have you gotten one of

these wrong yet? Probably not. They're too easy. It's hard to be humble when you're that good.

Remember, I'm the realest of this group. I am the realest of this group. If they, trust me, if they

could go faster, they'd go faster. Seeing those guys lap that thing is terrifying. So definitely

not cutting the second off of that, that's for sure. When my dad, we were going to Germany,

my dad really, truly didn't understand the Nurburgring. I think one of the videos I sent him

was like Jorg Bergmeister or Dumas. Remember, he said that crazy lap record? I go, yeah, here's what

it looks like. You've been on the Nurburgring. You've been on the Nurburgring. I've only done it

in a simulator and I've seen videos of it and it's freaking terrifying on my simulator. I cannot

imagine what it feels like at speed in a freaking car in the passenger seat. I mean, all I can say

is I am so glad I went in a lower horsepower car that was a dual clutch because you're so busy and

when they talk about blind, I think 80% of the turns are blind and I don't know how anyone just

hops in the car without an instructor because it took five laps to feel like I wasn't going to die

and that's where you break the point where like, okay, I'm going to spend thousands of dollars

and become a Nurburgring junkie or you just like go cold turkey. Yeah. All right, so let's move on

automotive news. All right, so hopefully, let me see. Yes, you guys have. All right, Casey, why

don't you go first because I thought this was you have a couple of good interesting points and I

think I know of all these cars you're talking about. So automotive news, Casey Parkin.

So the thing that stuck out in my mind the most this week is Porsche pulled their WEC factory

supported Penske team from racing for the 2026 calendar year. It's a bit of a bummer because

traditionally in the history of Porsche, the factory teams are the cars that are able to win Le Mans

and they of course got thwarted by Ferrari these last couple of years and it's a bummer. I do know

that they're still going to be supporting customer teams in the 2026 year to run in the WEC, but

they're basically putting focus on Formula E, which unfortunately I have no interest in and they

are still going to be supporting the Penske team in the IMSA for IMSA 963 racing, which is good

in the hypercar class, but honestly every manufacturer wants to win Le Mans and I believe

they're cutting themselves a little bit short. I can imagine that it cost a tremendous amount of

money to support a couple of cars to run Le Mans every year and continue development,

but it's a little bit of a bummer nonetheless. Yeah, Casey, I have a quick question about

is this because of one of two things or both? One, obviously because of backing out of EV in

less commitment and we saw the charts from the podcast a couple of weeks ago where Porsche is

going to be less profitable so they need the money or is it that they don't think they have a really

clear, like they want to hedge their bets and they don't have a clear idea that they think they

really can dominate Le Mans or the big races so they just rather support a privateer?

I think it's a little bit of both. I believe especially in the United States IMSA racing,

the balance of power on the 963 has been quite neutering through this year. They're cutting

back the power that it makes and adding weight and that mean if you look at the first half of this

IMSA season, the car was absurdly dominant and then the second half of the season it was really

tempered back. I believe there's a lot of that, but I really believe it all comes down to dollars

and cents. They do still want to make the attempt at making electric vehicles work

for the cars that they do have coming out so I believe that's still while they're leaning

into Formula E especially because they are so dominant. I think sports car racing is still

very big in the United States and I do believe that a lot of that is supported through local

or American-based companies so it's less of an expense than having the factory specifically

doing all of these long endurance races for the World Endurance Championship.

It's got to be about the money honestly. I mean they're hemorrhaging money and it would seem.

I'm going to throw this out there. I thought this was interesting. At Luft we had an informal

little meetup with a couple that was their Chinese but they're living here full-time,

married couple and he had a 964. It wasn't polar silver but he had a 964. Don't worry,

I'm not going to bring it up Casey. I promise we wouldn't and I know it hurts too much but

I mean yeah okay so I won't do it. All right and here's the thing. I was asking him why

what the deal with Porsche and their sales falling in China and he told me some things

that I haven't read anywhere and here's the bottom line. He said in China the Chinese

tariff the hell out of any imported cars. He told me that the last time he was in Beijing,

which was in the last 18 months, he said in downtown Beijing it was super quiet

because there were no there were all basically EVs and there were all Chinese EVs. So the reason

that Porsche sales dropped in China was because Chinese basically killed Porsche sales. That was

one thing and then he was a Porsche enthusiast at Luft and I asked him explain to Chinese not like

vintage cars and all the rest of it and he said they do but again the Chinese government

taxes the hell out of any old cars similar to what they do in Japan. So I just thought those

little bits of information had been missing from the whole story that the you know the Porsche was

saying about they just said our sales dropped off in China. Well they dropped off in China because

essentially you know Porsche I'm sorry yeah Porsche's cars became too expensive compared to the Chinese

counterparts. I thought that was kind of interesting. Yes Casey.

Well the other thing we can look back at is you know this happened another time in Porsche history.

Porsche did a huge amount of development following the GT1 for a program called LMP 2000

and they basically Wendell and Vita King the president Porsche at that time said we can do

two things. We can either go back to Winlemaw following the 1998 season or we can make this

thing called the Cayenne. So it all came down to money and of course the Carrera GT evolved out of

the LMP 2000 program. So it's just history repeating itself again. There are ebbs and

flows in the economy ebbs and flows in how much money a business makes and you know while we would

all like to go out and party every night sometimes you have to go to bed early to go to work.

Yeah. Well stated. All right. Automotive news Dave.

Well part of me found this interesting just because I normally don't see too many lucid

electric cars in the area that I'm in here but when we were on our way to

a luth obviously in the rally Durham area there was quite a number really a large number of lucid

airs that I saw then this particular story popped up about how their sales in Q3 have jumped 47%

which I thought was either they're selling zero cars and now they're selling a few.

I thought that was a pretty big jump. Yeah. Well I bet you that's exactly what it is honestly.

I bet it's just manipulation of the statistics but sorry go ahead. Well ultimately it's I think

it's really because the tax credit was expiring right. So I think wasn't at the end of this month

where the seven thousand dollar tax credit was was going away on these EVs. So it's it'll be really

interesting to see what happens with this EV market and to me with lucid in particular because

they're just launching this car behind me is an image of their gravity which is their small SUV.

Let me see if I can cover that up. It's not bad. Are these American made. Yeah they're made in

Northern California. So I mean the thing about the lucid and this is and this is unfortunate is

the tax credit lucid's products have been a premier product. So the tax credits were almost

irrelevant and they are phenomenal vehicles and they're even better used vehicles because they

just appreciate like a like a brick. But the sad thing is they finally they I mean they they're

all Tesla guys that figured they could build a better mousetrap and they really did. There's some

amazing technology with the these lightweight motors that they built that the sad thing is

they started with like this this great sedan like this SL competitive sedan or S class

commes man but no one's buying sedans let alone luxury sedans. And then finally when they come

up with the product Dave has which is going to appeal which is going to be more affordable

with their killer technology where the tax credit would really actually benefit. It's gone and I

think sadly although that's probably going to be a great car I think it's going to be the nail in

the coffin that company. I hope not because they're I would say Rivian and lucid are probably the

two best hopes for electric technology development but I could see lucid getting torn apart GM buys

the technology for the motors someone you know just basically the big manufacturers just buy up

and hopefully it stays with US manufacturing. I'd love to see if it goes that way GM buy some of the

technology Ford buy some of the technology between the two and not have it go export but we'll see.

Mr. Kramer the cars look very nicely built. They are of high quality the feature sets and so on

they're very they're attractive cars which is why I spotted them right. I mean you're seeing one

drawn the road you don't see a lot of the sedans obviously and I've seen none of this SUV but I

have even even local whether really I mean there's a huge place big service center right near our

shop I haven't seen that locally yet but anxious. All right so Tim my big news which some it's

very cursory it's very early it's the idea that Toyota and Mazda are going to collaborate

and now people you know people look at Toyota and Mazda are as probably more of a competitor

than Toyota Nissan because Nissan's barely even existing and it's it was sort of rumor but even

as as early as a week ago a bunch of people or journalists came up to Toyota and really pushed

them hard like are you guys partnering with Mazda and what was the quote we cannot comment about

speculation about future product which is basically no comment is they're gonna do something now the

big question is what are they gonna do you know that the Mazda Miata and the GR86 are different

products they appeal to different people but then you know the GR86 already is it's kind of like our

last hope for a new car that's affordable rear-wheel drive manual transmission and but they partner

obviously with Subaru and the biggest challenge is they haven't had enough power and then you've

got Toyota already partnering the Supra with BMW BMW's basically making the convertible Toyota's

making the coupe you know Nissan is sort of flouting around trying to figure out how to get

the 400Z and and my big concern of this partnership is are we going to lose one of these two products

which I mean you can't lose the Miata it's iconic it's it's you know your gateway drug

to sports car ownership and how many rear-wheel drive manual transmission sports cars under

50 grand are left for sale in the US well what's also interesting is how many folks are going to

sort of you know cross the bridge from having a bunch of cars and end up back buying an original

Mark 1 Miata which actually brings me to a story that I found and I don't know if you guys saw this

as well but Mazda is actually doing complete restorations only on their Mark 1 Miatas and

they're doing them in Japan and I just I did as much homework on this as I could and it looks

like it's about a $60,000 oh someone's going to pull it up for me I think it's Dave thank you

and show it on YouTube so if you guys are on YouTube yeah you can see and the essence of the

story is is that you can ship them your Miata which I don't think I don't know why you would or you

just have them source one in Japan their left hand drive so it all works and then they'll do a

complete restoration I couldn't figure out if they'll let you change colors and things like that

I don't know but yeah I mean I think that's kind of cool because what are they going to charge

all in if I did the conversions right it's like 50 to 60 grand

and that did not include the car and it takes six months I mean the six months is good 50 to 60

grand is a lot considering you can go out and buy like an amazing uh you know and you know first

edition Miata that's what we did I mean we we bought at Julien I bought a black with red 93

limited edition which is the original one and I think if I remember correctly I was eight or

nine thousand miles on it we brought it off bring a trailer for uh delivered it was 23 grand so I

actually agree with you but finding those cars is super hard because most of them got crapped out

so in any event it's fun that we're all talking about the inexpensive joe the joys of owning

inexpensive cars as we move on to the next topic which is talking about luft the exact opposite

of inexpensive cars all right okay so let's roll in I'm going to start out by saying I've never been

to a luft before um I was messaging paul and I know I used the word overwhelm to describe the

experience that is what it felt like it was overwhelming from so many different levels

I cannot I still can't really I I don't know where to place it in my mind in terms of all the other

car things I've been to we've been to car things Julie and I and you're up in California and just

all over the place but nothing was as cool as luft and it's it was I'm trying to and hopefully you

guys can help me to express to the audience who's never been to one why they need to go even if

you're not a dyed in the wool portion nerd the reality of it is is being at an event

where there's where it's not just a traditional car show where there's not freaking vendor alley

where there's not loud horrible music from the 1960s and 70s playing in the background

it doesn't have that whole vibe it is almost like a museum environment meets you know I don't know

how to describe it can you guys help me out no I think you know and actually this is a picture of

this is our tortuga when it was about a year old year old with us this is in 2000 I want to say 14

and this was luft too and it was at bandido brothers which was it was in uh bandido brothers which

was a design studio in venice beach and it was the beginning of them realized and it was a very

nowhere near curated like what you guys experienced but it was the beginning of a curated

show and and and kind of breaking the mold of the traditional car show and being friends with pat

long you know he loves loves loves these cars he hates going to like a cars and coffee where you

have to weed through a bunch of stuff to maybe see a car that's wedged in a parking space so you

can't really take a good picture you can't even get around it and he's like I really want to stage

these in a way and really the key was when he brought jeff's word in you got a photographic

eye and so this is a show I don't know if they intentionally did this but it was really how

do we get a a venue where we can showcase these cars from the viewpoint of a photographer and that's

why it's so photogenic and that's why the backdrops are so important and and um it's really really

hard to get these new places and surprise and I had a feeling it was going to be at the american

was american tobacco yep campus because I think that's where they were going to be the first time

and I kind of strong armed it was so freaking incredible because I strong armed pat long like

where is it I kind of put two and two together back in 2020 I remember looking at google uh

shots I was like oh this venue is going to be fantastic what so just to kind of build on this

there's no like big field there's no big ass parking lot where crawlers are all lined up

and I'll give you guys an advanced player tip if you're going to go to one of these which everyone

should the day before when they're setting up in my mind was more enjoyable than the actual

day of the show because the actual day of the show there's lines there's massive amount of people

hard to get a picture but the day before the show when all the trucks are unloading and they're

trying to wedge all these cars in these impossible places uh it's like jet automotive jenga and and

by for example julie and I were walking down this it was basically a bridge and there was this little

alcove and the alcove was about 13 and a half feet long does anyone know how long a 356 is

about 13 and a half feet and what they were trying to do is so it was a it was a rectangle

right they wanted to park the 356 in you know long ways and so they had to figure out a way

to lift the 356 in millimeter by millimeter you know with a floor jack just push it back in this

space now they eventually gave up and they ended up parking it you know perpendicular to the back

but still watching them go through all that was incredible hearing all the cars start as they came

off trailers especially like a case he's got behind him the old 550s I watched that car getting

unloaded I mean it just was exhilarating and I have to say I liked it actually more I shouldn't

say this but I liked it more than car week I really did that one day was better than freaking

three days of car week in Monterey and I don't think and it was just because it was more in

alignment with you know I don't know it was just more relaxed the people were just truly exceptional

that's the other thing it's hard to so let's let's set up the the space for those that aren't

actually like haven't been so American tobacco was obviously you know North Carolina known for

its tobacco this was an old factory I'm not sure if it was purely lucky strike but lucky strike

cigarettes were certainly made at this factory at some point so this is a situation the the image

behind me is the Durham Bowl stadium which has been integrated and it was built as part of this

redevelopment so this is where the Durham bowls play if you look behind me you know that's mark

Donahue's 917 back in there that they rolled out into the middle of you know second base there on

the night before the event started and then for the ultra VIPs they had some sort of special

presentation that was there on the field so that was super cool the night before they had a big party

but this place is like multi-level and every around every little corner is like an old

section of this factory that they've redeveloped into either office space or retail or restaurant

and the ups and downs the water features that ran right down through the middle of it just

a stellar place where this thing was was held and then who doesn't love brick right so the brick

was just everywhere it was all old school brick and these cars were just jammed in here but beautifully

set up so you'd never had more than maybe three or four cars together in any one section and then

you'd just walk into different places and everything was kind of a discovery you would just see things

that were just you know amazing cars in amazing venues and I would certainly agree with you Paul

that I think Jeff's work played a big role in that and the other thing like the picture that Casey

I'm sure Paul you were at the lumberyard version of this right because I brought that car to the

lumberyard there you go I think the lumberyard spawned all of the wood that they use now like

that was one of those things that they added during that that version which I think was I don't know

eight number eight or number seven I can't remember which it was using that lumber and they get fresh

lumber and they've banded together and they do all these things and and put these cars up on it like

the 550 that Casey has behind him there just really need that that stuff has has continued Casey can

you go back to the slide you had up prior to this one one where the 550 was sitting in front of that

ridiculously like 10 story all right I'll just set this up and then and then Casey I'd love to

hear from you that thing behind that 550 I don't know how many stories it was it was I would say

at least three stories maybe four stories tall and I'm pretty damn sure that was some what up

some sort of steam hot water something or another it was a boiling yeah in essence yeah

but it was just extraordinary so Casey what I mean had you been you hadn't been to aloof this was

your first one too right so it is and the only one of these that I've ever been to like this before

was air water a few years ago which Paul and I have talked about and I plan on going out in

springtime next year to air water again I was I will as Tim mentioned it was absolutely overwhelming

I am not a crowd person and for the couple of listeners that came up to me and talked to me

one specifically because I it took me a second to figure out where I was in space and time at that

moment but there's a guy named Tim who is a is a listener and he actually bought a silver GT3

from Paul he came up to me and started talking to me and I was so confused as to what was happening

at that moment because I was recognized from from doing this and it was it was quite mind-blowing

but it took me like until he walked away he's like yeah I bought a GT3 from Paul and I was like

who's Paul and then I was like and then like five seconds later it all clicked but but it was

as Tim mentioned the the positioning the cars were were insane my favorite space

in the whole place was where this 550 was behind me this room probably had I mean I have no idea

what the first 550 is worth but let's just say there was 30 35 million dollars worth of cars in

that room the the most and Dave has a better picture of it up right now but if you see the

overhead shot yeah the car in the background is my buddy Bob's fish scale silver bent window 356

which I'm around a lot because it's a local to us but Bobby Ray Hall's like cream yellow 904

was in there and that was the car I wanted to see most of this whole thing I've seen 550-01 a couple

of times before but I mean there were I don't know if I have another picture of it but there were

three America roadsters there real one 1952s and they were insane like they just it's like I've

the they had the one sitting on the National Mall from Road Scholars a couple years ago which

was awesome and other than I think a silver one that I saw at the Porsche Museum I'd never seen

one before but there were three of them there but this this room that that's behind Dave and behind

me in these pictures was was insane and it's Casey sorry to interrupt but it's worth mentioning

there are three of them and there are all these other special cars but these aren't behind ropes

these aren't you know some sort of snobby ass you know vibe to it you could go up to the cars I'm

sure you don't want to man handle them that much but you could completely interact with the vehicles

and there aren't security people walking around or people checking wristbands or making sure you

have the right colored lanyard so you know it really made it very approachable and very accessible

if the only security type people that I saw um where there were people dressed in

Penske uniforms around the Mark Donahue car because that that that along with the 5501

were probably the most valuable cars there if I had to bet um there are a few cars less

storied other than maybe like a Rothmans 962 or a golf livery 917 that really play to that era of

insanely cool motorsport and I I thought it was insane um my favorite part of it and Tim I'm

sad that you couldn't have gone there that evening is uh in the evening of Saturday my buddy Yuri

and I went to this shop that um Dave was at and uh we just sat there and talked for a long time

and this this cool space there was a bunch of Sander works cars there and I got to pick over them

and I'll promise you I am very particular and I don't mean to even if I didn't know Dave and

didn't do business with him before I would tell you that the quality of the work that he does

compared to some of the other builders that cost a lot more money that I saw represented there

the work was insane and I also got to meet um another listener and a guy that's become a friend

Marshall who is I believe he knows Paul and Dave and of course Tim but we we stood there and talked

for like 45 minutes and had uh you know watered down old-fashioned and it was it was a killer night

and it was it was uh it's been a while since I've done something like this the only thing

that I believe tops um tops luffed as far as this is I really love to see cars in motion um

so rent sport for me will always be peak because there's nothing better than seeing like the car

behind me this 934 uh I think that's a 934 it looks like one or it's either the 934 uh an early

rs actually it's probably an early like a 74 rsr but seeing something like that lapping a track

shooting four feet of fire out of the back of it I think that to me is peak but as far as a static

display I don't believe anything beats luffed yeah and let me let me let me drop some let's

some uh some scoop here because I actually heard Casey that rent sport was going to then appear

next year and rent sport will be in Daytona Beach this year or this this next coming one so it's been

on the three-year cycle and I heard that it was going to be in Daytona it's been at Monterey and

Laguna Seca for the last couple events but I'm told this time it's that that would to me that

would be highly unusual considering that Porsche just spent a ton of money to be the key ownership

sponsor at Laguna Seca you know used to be Mazda Raceway Weathertech Raceway it's now

Porsche they're doing their experience center there if it's at Daytona from a financial standpoint

I have no idea why they wouldn't do that well Florida Florida's probably a lot correct or not

yeah see if the scoop is right well I hope it happens I mean I hope I hope rent sport happens

again to me that was there's I don't think there's anything cooler than that and I got to oh two

two other quick things and then I'll turn it over um my good buddy Steve that runs Goud and Porsche

their classic department they won the preservation for the Porsche restoration challenge and our

friends at Harper Porsche who are listeners of the podcast they took home the the People's Choice

Award for their Chroma Flare Carrera RS which looked really amazing in person so kudos to both of

those guys that was a very cool car I don't know if you guys like Chroma Flare or not maybe your

first impression is it's too flashy but Julie and I sat down and just to take a little break and

that Chroma Flare car was right in front of us and it just sort of sold itself to you you know

you sort of fell in love with it it was really really well done you know um so uh as far as Dave

your experience I do want to say this and Marshall from Oklahoma and all these other folks that we

met I was that was what really caused me to feel overwhelmed the the feedback from the folks that

are part of our full throttle talk community was extraordinary and the people that were coming up to

us and the people that were just so nice and so sweet and Casey's right the lack of formality

when they started with conversations with us it wasn't high on you know Bob from Oklahoma

it's they just picked right up on top some topic we had on the podcast and if you if you were sort

of buffering you would you know have the experience that Casey did which I had a few times but

the very fact that we had so many people that were so sweet so nice made me feel amazing

honestly considering we just started this thing less than a year ago you know full throttle talking

to be around people that so thoroughly appreciate and enjoy what we're doing met the world to me

honestly and you know it really did change my perspective on it made me feel more tied into

the Porsche community than I ever have before knowing getting to know a lot of the more of

these people and how gracious they are that so that was my big takeaway I would say Dave what

about yours well I'm kind of curious is that as opposed to Ferrari people Tim what are you trying

to say there okay well since you asked I'll answer your question I'll say that the Ferrari people

a majority of the Ferrari people are Ferrari people especially when they go to Ferrari events

their primary objective is not the cars their primary objective and I'll I know some people

are not going to like me saying this but it's still true is networking a lot of folks get into

the more expensive cars because they want to network they want to get to know other high

net worth people sorry true and that's the reason you joined a country club and that's

learned reason you learn how to play golf the Porsche vibe was not like that at all those people

there were to talk about cars they just wanted to be around like-minded enthusiasts there was no

posturing or nobody was checking to see if you're wearing this or the other thing none of that was

going on so I would say does that answer your question that does and and I think that's one

of the things about the Porsche community and the the diversity which we talked about before in age

and and and financial background and everything related to Porsche because you had cars that

were there and if you know you look at them there there was beaters that were there right I mean

cars that were certainly not a concord quality car and I think that's certainly one of the things

that I love about Luft is that you've got people that are really driving this car I don't know if

you saw there was a you know a friend that has a 356 that's kind of an aqua marine color 356

that's probably got 300 or 400 000 miles on it at this point and the bottom falls right out of the

car he just keeps driving this thing and it was featured prominently right near the entrance

and I think that's one of the the draws it's that people keep driving them all these cars are still

on the road people are trying to keep them going that's why I feel like I picked a really good

business because there's demand for this stuff and it comes from all over the age range and so on

were you guys surprised he mentioned age did you guys notice that essentially it was definitely

older and I don't know if that's true in California I doubt if it is okay and the rally Durham

for that Luft it was definitely people that were I would say 45 and older for sure a minority of the

people younger people and I went and sought out the millennial types and I was asking them just

trying to you know get a sense of the market for the sake of the show and they're all I would say

most of them were not died in the wool old Porsche fans they were newer Porsche fans and this was a

Porsche event they're going to at their dad or whatever that was my observation Casey or Dave

do you have any feedback on that I I mean I'll put it this way trying to make sure I wasn't

going to run into somebody was probably priority one is noticing the ages of people around me

but you know I would I would tell you I might say it's skewed a little bit possibly a little bit

younger than what you were talking about I think maybe 35 35 to 50 was probably the key demographic

that was there and there may be some you know some maybe 35 to 60 was probably the the the prominent

age and another thing that was interesting is I also saw a lot of women there I mean my wife went

and she really enjoyed herself well along those lines you guys have all been to car shows where

there's no lines to the men's bathroom and there's huge lines for the women's bathroom well this one

is the exact opposite if that puts things into perspective you know no line women's long line

for men's but yes like I take your point and when I was saying earlier about meeting Tim that

introduced himself to me a buddy it's become a buddy a guy that Paul knows really well Trevor

that does the parry parry podcast that I love he was great I apologize if I pronounced that incorrectly

but um godly other than the fact that I thought I broke his like a camera um the such an awesome guy

and that's kind of I bet that's kind of how I felt I mean meeting him as I mean because I listen

to his podcast every week you know to me it's a calming thing and I think it's a tremendous

a tremendous podcast he's a super good dude so kudos to him and thanks for taking the time

to chat with me for a couple of minutes you know what's funny too is that everyone who

is known to the podcast is trying to like you guys don't have ads and you're not doing this

and you're not doing the other thing like everyone thinks that we have a financial

motive for doing this and we really truly don't I mean because we're all probably too stupid to

figure one out to be honest with you well okay with that said we are looking for a title sponsor

for the podcast Hagerty your name should be on every one of our videos that we're doing for sure

so we would have one great title sponsor but other than that I don't think any of us have any

aspirations to really you know monetize this we want to keep it true to our mission as far as

being for enthusiasts so uh you have a anything you'd like to share Dave I know you had some notes

that I didn't get to oh no I mean just honestly the this you know we had a couple of different

cars there including the one that's now behind me which is actually a 77 kind of hot-rodded car that

one of my employees actually has been restoring here in the shop kind of during the weekends

and the evenings and he's pulling in you know tax and so on to put this car on the road but this

was sort of featured down the one of the main drags not not necessarily like in a big open

field or something along those lines but they had all these cars kind of staged a certain

way and this one sort of stood out where it was a you know vertical versus being just parked

horizontally but this one was a great car and it it showed up at the party that Casey and I attended

the on the night after they asked to bring this car there pillar with the Pasha uh black and white

Pasha on the door cards it's got the pole positions in it as well that are done in Pasha really came

out nice and I'm really proud of Rob who's my service manager who really did pour his heart and

soul into getting this car back on the road because if you'd seen this car when I acquired it and

then ultimately sold it to him it was a real pile so yeah super good to meet him too Rob and once

once Dave figured out that I was who I was he's like yeah you just work with Rob and Rob took

super good care of me when we did the restoration work on on my buddy's car that Sander works it

was great to meet him I gave him a big hug when I saw him and so this copper brown yeah well

I had him I'm sorry no this copper brown one that he's showing if you guys are looking for a really

really well done uh SC this car is gorgeous when we are meeting folks basically we are lingering

around that car paint perfect panel gap perfect interior gorgeous the whole thing and I think

reasonably priced by you know considering how much obvious money went into this thing go ahead

no it's just going to say that we were fortunate Maguire Wax asked us to bring a couple of cars

or at least one car we're going to be two for a second and then because one of them of that

they had arranged wasn't going to get there but we brought this car instead beautifully featured in

the same building where you know the 356's were just a fantastic spot it was called the the cage

was this area so the building is kind of open but the photos that were getting taken here were just

amazing uh they the Maguire's folks were fantastic to us they let us fire the car up near the end

of the day um but I'll talk about this car when we get into with this and that because I think

I'm going to use this car as one of the two so so in conclusion a 10 out of 10 and I will say this

if we wanted to start a business we I can tell you guys right now how we could actually make

enormous amounts of money we actually start a clone louft t-shirt and hat business

because they sold out so fast and people were pissed I was carrying Dave was kind enough to

basically be in line and grab us some t-shirts early in the morning otherwise we wouldn't have

gotten any and when I was carrying around the bag I had three people come up and ask me if I

had sell the shirts yeah about that and by the way pro tip most of that stuff is like the poster

or whatever is available beforehand some of it's available beforehand on their website

and then often what I do is I will buy stuff afterwards I mean they're in the they're in the

business to not have limited production so they will have a lot of it so if you go you know not

that I'm promoting them I mean the problem is all of their I have so much louft wear and it's made

for people that look like Casey and all you three you know it's like European cut the hilarious

thing is my daughter who's not a car person she loves all those shirts so she wears them to call

she was wearing at college and people are like oh you're into you're a louft cuckold fan she's

like I don't even know what that is yeah and just a quick question about louft cuckold here's and

we've had this conversation with friends at car friends what how could you do this in what way

would this be as successful in a not port if you took Porsche out like what brand could you do this

of of any other auto manufacturer or whatever where how could you do this with could you do it with

Ferrari could you do it with Corvette that's the only two that came to my mind yeah so and I know

that there's a there's a group in LA and I wish I could have gone last weekend and they they're

doing an event called Mach Mach Machissima which is I think the way you do Ferrari which is all

Italian and it's all vintage or special Italian and they're trying to curate it it's almost become

like it reminds me of louft back in 2014 and the first one that was at Deus Ex Machina that was

even smaller and ironically I was invited to the first louft it was in the Deus I don't know if

you've been to Venice Beach with a Deus Ex Machina it holds like 10 cars and there's like a there's

like a Thai restaurant next door and I was invited to come and I was like I'm not driving to Venice

Beach this morning well they answer your question Paul BMW probably I would say BMW that's probably

good the same sporty bet um and they got it and they got like a die-in-the-wool enthusiast that

will have the and they're not right and they're not super expensive and it's not a super super

snob brand and there's a lot of badass cars from the 80s and the 70s and whatever I would say I

wouldn't say Mercedes I wouldn't say I don't know BMW that would have to be it I think you know what

do you think about Corvette what what about Corvette though I'm actually despite the fact

that I like to bring up Corvette all the time just a frickin poke Paul I'm not that much of a

Corvette I love the new c8 I think it's brilliant I think it's a game changer um but I'm not really

into that world I can't really tell you for sure you know the nice thing about it is it has that

similar similar lineage to you know Porsche in terms of you can you know be getting early cars

and later cars and the the evolution it would be very clear there's tons more to pick from obviously

as well but I think brand is interesting though but I mean Casey again Casey brought up for example

Bobby Ray Hall's uh 904 the tan car which was amazing and like is the brand is the Corvette

as a brand does it have as much depth and texture and interest I'm not sure if it does I'm not sure

if it has that same level of just I will say this and I'll say this with love and respect

the level of people on the the number of people on the spectrum you know the autistic spectrum

at this thing was off the freaking charts which is fine whatever right I mean and if you weren't

walking around with an expensive freaking camera knowing having all the thing I mean Casey there

were a lot of people there that made you I mean you had to have been standing there and all of some

of the the details that some of these people knew but I don't know if there's any other brand that

has that level of pure enthusiasm meets intellectual horsepower and I think that combination of

things may it really feel special at least to me I think you're right I mean it's it's outside of

the cars part it is like a watch and camera you know Trevor got a picture of my speed master

and he's like you want to do a like a wrist shot I was like I don't know what that is okay watch

check what do we got nothing Casey's not wearing a watch again no Casey you just need to like get

a tattoo and like just call it done or Casey wear the formula gloves with a watch that's printed

on the gloves oh yeah that my IWC gloves you got exactly all right what are you wearing Kramer

early 90s date just Rolex it was the first nice watch I bought used

uh-huh so very very and it's and I only wear this for special occasions and I'm wearing it this week

because I'm going on a freaking rally oh yeah we didn't bring that up congratulations he's

cleared to go on his first official rally and yesterday was the first time I drove a car in

two and a half months oh shit and bleep that out I apologize that's great man that's awesome Paul

yeah speed master from Dave that's my 89 20th anniversary moon landing speed master that I

actually bought earlier this year from a friend it's engraved on the side that has you know

celebrating the moon landing and so on so uh cool watch nice little bit of patina on it very cool

kind of stuff I like I'm not the guy that's going to spend $25,000 on a watch I'm afraid right so

you know uh you know this this is just perfect for me though and then to add to my collection

so so Paul tell us about driving well yesterday the dog I went to the doctor and I asked him like

so can I go on the rally and he's very you know like Roman emperor he's like I don't see why not

and then I said well what about driving and he goes yeah I think that's fine he goes just

go to a parking lot and practice first I think he was more concerned that I would be comfortable

in position so yesterday my physical therapist we went to the fairgrounds parking lot near near

shop and got in my 2003 Jaguar and just says it's my sedan he's he said no manuals yet but

just automatic and and it really was the the proverbial like getting back on the bike I mean

it just felt normal so when we go on this rally Friday we have the rental macan and I'm going to

be driving part of it which is I'm I'm super like you have no idea how excited my wife said the only

other time she saw me that excited is when I bought that Citroen SM and then our wedding was down

lower so is the head coming yeah oh yeah no it's part of the deal he he's coming and he's I think

the doctor's excited because he has a 50 year medical background so he's going to be you know

making sure that everything's your dad was a doctor no he ran a medical laboratory for 50 years

I mean talk about a germaphobe and infectious disease I mean I you know growing up with someone

that wakes you up at five in the morning to draw your blood before going to work and I mean just

the washing hands I mean this explains a lot now it's all starting to clear up but you know and

the funny thing was and it's hard to explain the surgery was two and two months and a week ago

um but I'm basically walking little Frankenstein um and even the doctor came in and I was standing

up I can stand normal and he's like when did you start standing I'm like I I don't know I just I got

tired of sitting you know and I just stood up um you know it's it's it's sort of like forest

gump breaking through his his shackles um but I a week long northern Arizona uh 20 to 30 cars

it's gonna be a it's a very small group curated um you know a friend so I'm it's a good starting

point and we're gonna do another rally similar to that next year and I'm hoping by then I'll be

you know back in my you know normal steed and awesome man when we start doing full

throttle talk rallies Paul is volunteered to organize them so go you I will do it I'm good

at I'm good at are you serious dude that was your number one rule when you started the podcast

you said you do not want to organize anything yeah I mean I would I would do it more for

self-preservation so we don't have so we have something right but like geographically like if

a rally's gonna be in the east you know mid-atlantic it's gonna be a Casey Dave thing um I'm sorry

Tim we're not doing the Puerto Rico rally you can go in circles circles yeah we could yeah we'll

bring your NASCAR it's more like a kidney shape actually all right let's let's let's change topics

we can go through this one really quick because I thought it was interesting I'm sure other people

will as well or maybe not let's talk wheels all right so I want I've been really interested in

knowing why it is like what's the life cycle on cast wheels forage wheels carbon fiber wheels

magnesium wheels what is all this like I don't and I learned personally I learned a ton researching

this I have been told the carbon fiber of all the wheel wheel types are the most fragile and all

the rest of it but I don't want to step on my notes so I did cut and paste them and put them in the

spreadsheet so I mean as far as designs and goes but let's really get into this I mean if someone's

trying to decide about specking in their new Ferrari or they're specking in their new whatever

and there's different wheel options the magnesium wheel option the carbon fiber option let's walk

them through and there you go all right well there you go I mean that's sorry Casey did something

it had a trigger effect on me when you put the you started twitching when he when he put a cup

wheel or a speed line wheel exactly speed line modular wheel so let's let's just jump into this

I have no particular direction as to where to go but Casey you go first you might basically

knock it out of the park when we move on to the next topic no I mean I don't you know when you when

I saw this was proposed you know I there are wheels that I don't like I look after a number of cars

with and I look at them from a liability standpoint right when I sold Porsches new you know we would

always talk about the specific type of wheels that if you were to curb the the wheel you would be

able to get it fixed right so a painted wheel is a lot easier to fix than a wheel with a machine

finished but now as my as my career has shifted a little bit I deal with a number of cars with

carbon fiber wheels I deal with a number of cars with magnesium wheels and I can tell you that

neither of those am I big fans of magnesium I believe has a shelf life magnesium wheels from

the early 90s like car like 964 career rs's a lot of the wheels and cars that I look after sorry a

lot of the cars that I look after the wheels have been refinished and if you don't know much about

refinishing magnesium I am not an expert on this but it's super important to out gas the wheel

before and sometimes put a coating on them prior to putting any sort of paint or powder coating on

them because it will actually out gas through the wheel and car cause marbling and almost look like

the finishes rusting or bubbling off the wheel so if you go look at a career rs just go take a

964 go take a look at the wheels because that's something you see comp emotive wheels from

the 70s and 80s Italian cars are very similar and then the other thing that I'm not a huge

fan of is carbon carbon is very fragile the I remember seeing the first carbon wheels that I

ever really worked with were I mean from a man on a manufacturer vehicle is I think it was what the

could correct me if I'm wrong Paul like 2019 911 turbo s the gold package one you know the

one I'm talking about where they had the optional it was called exclusive something yeah yeah so

those wheels the the finish I've actually seen them peel off and turn different colors on those

particular those particular cars and Porsche if I'm not mistaken had their own autoclave to put

them together so I'm a log I'm a bigger fan of things that are more permanent so cast or forged

or cn seed wheels or flow formed things made out of aluminum I believe are more timely and last a

long time and that is always where I would lean towards towards wheel knowledge and and also not

a fan of three-piece wheels either other than the fact that speed lines are kind of the best wheel

I deal with the Diablo with oz three-piece wheels that um leak I've had the wheels rebuilt by people

that know what they're doing and they still leak through the centers of the wheels and it's uh

it's just a headache that I don't I don't believe needs to occur I mean everybody knows the Porsche

cup one wheel is probably the best wheel ever and we should just stick with that so this is

any car doesn't matter there you go so look any car Porsche guidance for GT series magnesium wheels

is a time mileage limit to replace every 10 years or 40 000 miles and when researching this I found

that to be a little shocking because I've never heard that before and so Casey that um the the car

that was at in Monterey uh that was the rebuild of the the RS the 964 RS remember how hard it was

the guy was saying that they totaled the car Haggerty ended up totaling the car when one of

the reasons was they couldn't find a new wheel that's kind of I mean so I don't know yeah to

throw this back to give it some context yeah Tim and I are talking about the Tim was looking at

bidding on a silver Carrera RS um that looks surprisingly like my 964 that didn't make it to

unfortunately but we're not going to talk about that anymore um but uh so but yeah one of the

reasons so Haggerty got this car um it was in an accident Porsche cars North America and their

classic program restored it and they couldn't get a replacement wheel because the right rear

was hit on the car so they had to total it and then they eventually were able to find a wheel

and restored the car and sold the car for what I thought was decent money but um my buddy Ray

was telling us the story but yes um if you see real serious Carrera RS people they will ask if the

wheels have ever been x-rayed because they want to make sure that there are no cracks um I don't

know I mean I'm sure Dave has dealt with this but early magnesium engine cases often become porous

and start to come apart my 964 um the later 964s they evolved to using aluminum parts rather than

magnesium such as valve covers because they blister and expand under different heating and cooling um

yes it's light yes it's cool to say that you have magnesium wheels but at the end of the day uh I wish

the in in the Porsche world I wish the the the aluminum wheels looked cooler um perhaps they

can't because of the the tensile strength and such that they need but in all reality you know

magnesium as Tim stated has a shelf life which is incredible I didn't know that I should have

known that because in racing in case you know this too because you and I are Formula 1 fans

those things I don't even know how many laps they go around but I know that they don't run

the same wheels for more than one race but here's the here's the interesting thing I learned this

too about the carbon fiber wheels and this is of course from carbon fiber revolutions uh a website

and they make the wheels for Ford Ferrari you know Corvette all these carbon fiber wheels it is

actually kind of funny a set of carbon fiber wheels from carbon fiber revolution on a Ferrari

is 50 000 same basic wheels that are on a Corvette are like you know less than half of that so I

don't know maybe it's a lot more money to import them in Italy who knows but here's the fascinating

part is the wheels are designed to last the life of a vehicle or longer so the carbon fiber wheels

actually have a longer shelf life than magnesium wheels who are spoiled milk in 10 years and you

have to replace them and I can guarantee you there are no 10-year-old magnesium wheeled

911 GT products out there who people are saying I'm going to replace these wheels that hasn't

become and it might be very well become have you replaced your wheels have you scanned your wheels

and that could be a detriment you know that could be your new uh your new what is it the

96 I thank you sir yeah who knows I'm giving you guys who are in the business more headaches

I look forward to oh I mean if a client asks me to you know what's your x-rays on the wheels I'm

out bro bro have you checked I'll be retired by then Paul over revs no over revs you know and it's

I'm showing a picture I mean I kind of experience this when I bought this what we call the mad cow

that's what looked like when I bought it's hard to see in those pictures but these car these wheels

were factory 9s and 12 or 10s and 12 74 rsr magnesium center lock wheels that's and ultimately

I had to switch them to the replica 917 aluminum wheels because they were 40 year old wheels from

like the mid early 70s and what ended up happening is as I was driving on them because why not um

they started to crack and they started to leak and I I had an horrible drive to Monterey car week

where every 45 minutes I had to get out and squirt like marine silicone into the into the

valve stem and hope I can get another 45 minutes of driving and I got really good at at low tire

pressure wheel recognition because the car would just shudder um and I had so many nightmares and

eventually you know I sold those here's the thing is I sold those set of wheels for almost 10 grand

back in 2008 because someone else who had a race car watered it and I'm just thinking I said hey

like three of the wheels work one doesn't I don't know when the other three are gonna go and going

back to what you said Tim there is a shelf life to them don't you guys think this is like a big

story because if there's a essentially these magnesium wheels are you know sketch after 10 years

and there's gazillions of porches out there with magnesium wheels and nobody's talking about it I

do not see how this is not going to be something that everyone should be aware of and and frankly

Porsche is going to probably make a fortune off selling replacement wheels by the way a true

e36 m3 lightweight which I've owned three of them and sold probably 12 of the 120 wow they are

magnesium alloy wheels because we've had to fix curb rashes on them and I remember our wheel guys

at our shop you know they have a lathe and they're spinning the wheel and they're like these wheels

are magnet they're not all magnesium but those motorsport wheels which say motorsport are a

magnesium alloy compound which now going back to you said Tim I don't know if it's if it's a compound

is that make it stronger you don't have to replace them often but I know these these wheels are very

sought out by the BMW community put on all their other cars you know they look for the ones that

say motorsport around the the center hub and I'm wondering are they all magnesium whereas just

the 120 got them and then the replacements aren't I I've asked people who are you know BMW you know

I call them Knights of the Roundel table and they don't know what the real story of that is business

ideas replica loose swag all right and then replacement magnesium wheels we are kicking

ass on how to monetize our podcast yes Paul Paul to go on what you were saying on a Porsche wheel

even dating back to if I'm not mistaken Fuchs wheels and I know through the 80s if you spin the

wheel around it'll actually show you the metallurgy composition on the back of the wheel it'll say

like MG to blah blah blah like it'll show that so there that is I'll see if I could get a picture

of one for our next podcast but I remember when I I did a tremendous amount of diligence when we

did the turbo cup restoration of course turbo 944 turbo cups have mag wheels so that was something

that I was considering going down that that slippery slope but they're insanely expensive

but yeah it does have the metallurgy on the back of one of the spokes of the wheels so check that

out did they did sorry I'm about to embarrass myself but didn't Porsche put magnesium roofs on some

I'm not sure that I mean a wheel is a load bearing item that expands and contracts with heat

I don't necessarily believe that a magnesium roof on a GT car is something that I mean that

wouldn't be a replaceable item for sure here just because you mentioned that super nerdy stuff and I

again I probably wasted way too much time reading about this but the heat cycles and carbon fiber

wheels has like zero negative impact on the wheels where versus in the alloys it does it just

essentially causes the wheels to eventually break down so anyway the only problem with carbon though

is if if there's any sort of nick or something that goes into the weave like a very like a stone

strike from driving on the road or god forbid you you run it into a curb you know if you're into the

weave and you're past the gel coat I to me that's compromised it is and one carbon fiber wheel

I know how much a carbon fiber wheel for a 4 GT costs and it costs more than my 914 and my

Land Cruiser when I first bought them added together so Casey I think how you started out by

saying just by aluminum alloys aluminum by aluminum wheels that you can fix for sure I mean and he's

right because going back to my even with the steel wheels like when I first got my my green 911

I had to make custom 7 and 8 inch steel wheels and you know how I made them is I took the centers

of the space savers from like a 80s Carrera you know those little doughnut space savers I took

those took them to a wheel place and then they put the hoops and I gave them the back spacing

and guess what after probably a hundred thousand miles the centers of the steel wheels started

to crack the factory space savers and one of the shot and of course no one's going to fix that

and by the way trying to fix steel wheels absolute nightmare and ultimately I ended up going with

this aluminum wheel that's a steel look because if yes they're a little softer but when they get

they don't break they bend and when they bend like Casey said they can get fixed but even when we

sold a Mustang 350 GTR they came with carbon fiber wheels and everyone takes them off everyone

and when I went to sell it everyone said has the carbon fiber wheels ever been on the car

and and they wanted to know going back to Tim if I was going to have to x-ray these freaking things

I'm like no the guy took delivery already bought a new set of wheels and before delivery switched

them and those in the wheels had never touched basically the ground besides the showroom but

honestly just going back to my point because I really am shocked that this isn't a thing

why is it that even Hagerty and all these other people and I'm gonna know I'm sending you guys

up for a nightmare because you're gonna have everyone start asking this why isn't anyone

really sensitive to the fact that these mag wheels are really only have a 10-year shelf life

why is no one even why is that not a thing it's it's not like the end just because

because we're we're you know we're not hearing about failures yet we're not hearing about if it's

gonna come and suddenly you start to see some stuff on the various forums and whatnot where oh I

you know was making a drive and suddenly I lost a wheel or something exactly that's when you'll

start to see it and the first mag wheel on a modern Porsche came with the 2018 GT2 RS with

Fisok package so that we're we're still three years away from that wheel being 10 years old

I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche is proactive like they sort of were with the Carrera GT and

sending some sort of you know very owner-friendly update option for the wheels I would be shocked

if they didn't honestly because that just seems like it's perfect for some you know plaintiff's

attorney to go after him because of that but all right you guys ready to move on

all right uh okay we're not for sure I'm good to go Paul needs to take a little break

evidently all right yeah I'm still disabled we'll see when you get back all right so here's

something uh this is an interesting topic at least hopefully it works out to be an interesting

topic and what got me on this one is looking at this 1952 Ferrari 212 that was on bring a trailer

and what I want to talk with you guys about is what constitutes real versus fake and let or tribute

I don't fake the harsh word but let's just use fake because it cuts to it and I'll give you

just to get our brains working in the same wavelength diamonds all right you guys know that

you can make you can buy essentially jewelry grade man-made diamonds and people now have

really quickly not given much of a crap about whether it was a mine diamond or a man-made

diamond inside a very short period of time the value of mine diamonds has plummeted and also

I was researching even more of this and I was thinking well where in where in history has there

been a one-for-one replica of something that was coveted that when it started being mass accepted

where that did not degrade the value of the original and I couldn't find a single example

because the pool of people that are willing to pay the extra for the real original thing

go get smaller and smaller and smaller and that another example would be thinking of like a um

well I mean you know we could talk about cars here in a second obviously but if you think about

paintings I mean people originally put a lot of value on paintings you know a landscape of

painting and all of a sudden people are starting to take pictures and then the original photographers

who are taking pictures were maligned by the artists who are doing the painting because after

all it's a landscape sure but you didn't actually put in the work and then sooner or later what

happens is people that were you know you have the world's full of very famous photographers now

is a very good photographer any less than a very good painter I don't know so what point

does something in an automotive world just reeling this back in because Sora 2 is really what got me

thinking about this and I've been sharing with you guys some of the videos that are coming out

and listeners and viewers if you're not into if you don't know what I'm talking about just google

Sora 2 it's a chat GPT product that you can make videos with voice prompts you know KC Park and

skydiving jumping into a 9-11 cabriolet while being chased by zebras right and you just give it a

verbal essentially prompts and it will create a video about a minute long and it is just absolutely

shocking you don't have to do anything other than get a you know so where's your mind go with this

obviously they're going to be longer people are starting to in full length podcasts they're

going to be doing driving videos and so at what point do people not give a crap and I was talking

to my 11 year old about this I said you know Zoe wind you know she was like I can tell if it's AI

or not so if you couldn't tell if it was AI or not and you liked the AI made video as much as you

do the one that was made by somebody at what point don't you care and she goes well if I find them

both entertaining why would I what there's no discernible difference so cars at what point

is something not real versus a tribute and don't say just because it was made in period because

that Ferrari that I put up from bring a trailer has a lot of made in period parts on it Dave you go

first oh boy um the Ferrari that you brought up which I wish I grabbed the picture of so so the

question is that is theoretically as I look at the listing that's a real car isn't it

I'm it's there you go Paul Mr. Kramer is not he's where he was doing that from the bathroom

what's doing that remotely oh my goodness I was dying because I did I knew Tim would need this

and I did load it um uh because I wanted you to see it and and I have definitely thoughts

I didn't understand the topic at first but then I definitely had thoughts about it but

go ahead go ahead so I think it's it's a great it's Dave let me answer your question so that is

that is a was originally it was originally a coupe okay and it was made into a barcada

it was completely rebodied by a company in England so it has the coupe's chassis

it's not the original motor not the original nothing on its original except either all

or a portion of the chassis I would honestly I read the description twice I couldn't discern

what it was and in the old Porsche world so go ahead no so so if that's the case if this car

had been all original because this car sold for like what $200,000 or something like that hasn't

sold yet okay so it last time it did sell it sold for 400 grand okay so it's sitting there right now

200 in its auction what would this car be worth if it was quote unquote the real deal like I mean

six to seven million okay well clearly then people even if it's sold for four people care you know

even and I have the exact same situation as well with you know with with the idea of a car that has

you know a different history than the car it sits and exists right now but I think that's a great

point because there's that's a tremendous value then for somebody who likes that car and wants

that car as part of their collection it still has a lot of that Ferrari DNA in it even though that

might have been the car or a car that was you know modified at some point so that I I think

that's really fascinating yeah clearly it's not six or seven million dollars it is still a Ferrari

it's got a Ferrari then you can enter that into Ferrari you know all kinds of different things you

can do FIA you know vintage Ferrari rallies and that thing so it is and but you're saying you're

hitting the nail on the head in my mind so you can buy that thing for less than 10% of the original

one how is that not more fun than the original one other than for bragging rights you have an

original one because you can drive that well I and I think I think the thing is when you get to the

level where you have the money to have the seven figure version those people don't want to have

a story and I don't and to give you an example this weekend on a cars and coffee Sunday I don't

have the pictures a little video I posted of what looked like a Lusso TDF driving through our cars

and coffee and I just I didn't say anything I just it was sounded cool for iMotor and basically

my friend Kip who posted did the Homer say his thing he said that's a fake I go what do you mean

it's a fake and he knows the car he says basically it is a like a 330 turned into a short Lusso

which they you know it's all Ferrari parts done you know it was expensive build probably a quarter

million dollars you know 20 years ago and people did that I knew people who took 330s and turned

them into short wheel bases all the time and he was like the work was done well and I was okay with

it he was his problem is the owner was trying to play it off like it was the real deal and I have

seen this with replica when I was in had my replica spider and I go to these shows and be a guy with

a replica speedster trying to explain how it was real and that was the the frustrating part to me

was some of the owners and just trying to build this fake provenance but when you get to this love

yeah go ahead you guys are stuck in a rut about this one particular thing I'm gonna make it real

palatable so women with diamonds right they don't care if it's lab grown or if it's a mind

they don't care it's a two or three carat diamond and that happened in an in an unbelievably short

period of time less than a year that all of a sudden you know jewelry grade lab grow diamonds

eviscerated more or less the my personal experience with this Tim so it both of my adult male

children are getting engaged both are out shopping for diamonds both of their

suit seem to be spouses wanted natural diamonds Latin not lab grown because I'm I'm with you I'm

looking at this going Jesus I mean it's you know one's $10,000 one's $40,000 or whatever for the

basically the same I don't see the difference as it relates there is no difference but they're okay

but the correct I mean it's literally the same exact thing I totally get it um this is slightly

different and I still think it's moving what you're saying is absolutely where the future is

going to be in that whole diamond thing for sure and it's happened really quickly as you've said

for sure I think the thing with cars is there's always going to be this giant disparity between

you know the real real because you can track all that provenance in these cars I mean you it's

it's whether or not does that make it really worth more you know let me make it much rather have

let me make it 15 but go ahead all right let me make it more complicated just for fun

and case is going to basically hit it out of the park you can always tell me I'm you're you're you're

losing me I mean you started with me getting chased by zebras and skydiving so if you ever see a video

that looks like that is fake I promise a comic really perfect timing all right so if somebody

all the sudden starts making a one-for-one copy of a 9-11 with a brand new body it's not a 9-11 then

and it's better in every discernible way quality-wise stem to stern same exact driving experience

it's called a 1973 9-11 s because this is happening there are two companies I know about one in Europe

and one in Asia that are making literal reproduction shells that are discernible right and I'm in

communication with both of them because I'm just sort of curious I they haven't told what the

said what the pricing is going to be at are you telling me that in a luffed and luffed uh 2021

you know 10 loops from now if someone shows up in that yellow car that's behind Paul right now

and it's a brand new version of that old car do you think anybody will care I do not think

anybody will care that's not a special car that's not an rs that's not a you know some crazy old

Porsche race car that's just a normal run of the mill they made millions of 9-11 continue no special

DNA to it no nothing no Porsche anything no motor no no you can look I have I'm well I'm Julie and I

are building a 550 and our motor and our 550 is 100 not original Porsche every single part of it

has was has been recreated by you know Germans and so you can buy a four cam 547-1 four cam motor

and have it be exactly the same the metallurgy is the same everything's the same it's

Porsche's family used the same guy that Julie and I hired over in Denmark to put replacement motors

and their four cams okay so nobody cares and this is where I'm saying I suspect this is where like

you guys don't have to agree I'm not trying to tell you on something I'm just sort of curious

about this like what do you think well golly this is a lot to absorb I read the I read the

question on our shared doc and I took it a little differently like let's say let's say you have a

race car let's say you have a 2004 GT3 996 GT3 RSR okay let's say that car wins Daytona

um I have no idea if one did in 2004 or not but let's say the race after Daytona you see bring

that year that car goes into a wall it gets retubbed okay if you don't know what retubbing

means basically if you write a race car off enough you buy a tub from Porsche you move all the parts

that aren't broken into that car at what point is this ship of Theseus not the car that won Daytona

in 2004 that was the essence of my question Casey okay good well then I think I got it so okay so

the only people that this matters to is the rich guy that owns the car and the next rich guy that's

going to buy the car I mean that that's really all it matters to but but it's a great question I mean

if you replace if you have a if you have a Carrera RS right and um it's a let's say it's a lightweight

in the the a corner gets stuffed and you need to replace a fender but the fender that you replace

isn't lightweight um thickness it's traditional touring thickness let's say it cracks the glass on

the passenger side of the car in the windshield and you have to replace the glass or glass that's

in the car that's particular to a lightweight with sacred glass that's particular to a touring

at what point is that not the car well if I knew the answer to that I would be I would probably be

able to write a book I don't well here here's the thing we're talking about the RS is there's enough

of them built that the car that has had parts replaced will have a lesser value than the car

without and actually I wrote I think I wrote a note about that I think when it comes to race cars

they're in this unique world which I've told people when they're like hey what should I collect

I always find that late model race cars that are too new to be vintage and too old to be

competitive are what to collect because no one cares about them and the thing about those cars are

they're kind of immortal they're basically their value is tied into the vin and the log book

and for whatever reason race cars get a pass and this has happened with all manufacturers

Ferrari Corvette whatever if it did something great won the championship won a very big race

and it had to get retubbed no one cares about when was the last time you saw on a famous race car

someone wondered if the engine was numbers matching they go through engines like they're

like they're potato chips and the reality is I'll tag on that in a minute Paul with the car

that I encountered recently but keep going yeah so I just feel like when people ask me you know

hey I want to build a collection in my opinion is first of all you're going to be spending seven

figures don't you're not buying building a collection with $50,000 or $100,000 cars you're

going to be buying a collection that starts at half a million each and you buy vintage race cars

because in the end original paint numbers matching panels bodies all of that is irrelevant all that

matters is what DNA sat in that seat and what trophy did they get and that to me and the fact that

so long as the factory its factory parts the motorsport division replaced them it it literally

doesn't matter because you don't have any competition if you have the RSR that one Daytona and one

Sebring and it's been rebodied different engine different body panels all it is a vin number

in a log book it's not like go buy another one like go find the other one that one Sebring like

you can't and that's what makes those cars kind of immortal and in my opinion if I was building

the collection that's what I would build it with. Casey? So I was reviewing with a client the other

day who owns significant race cars and he has a car that he's considering selling which won a

it's a very old 911 that won Daytona it's class of Daytona and that car then the next year

place very well at Daytona and very well at Sebring got all the trophies car has the original

transmission Paul it has the original engine and the majority of the body work is original so to me

if you were to line up that car with the car the following year that didn't have that stuff

the car that I'm talking about is significantly more valuable because it is it still has that DNA

in it that that that took it and that that to me is and when you see race cars that have original

engines like it's insane I mean to me it's mind-blowing especially from that era as Tim you

mentioned that and Paul that you mentioned that they get removed they get they have three engines

they rebuild another engine throw it in the car for the second half of the season but it's pretty

amazing when you do see those survivor cars come through and that to me is mind-blowing.

But you guys are focusing in on this little tiny niche because that's ground that's easy to protect

is you're talking about historically significant cars what my premise is is that the vast majority

of cars that the listeners and viewers are buying themselves are not ever going to be historically

significant the cars we saw it loofed 10% were historically significant and my premise is is

that the future is not going to care they're going to buy something for the experience and I'm

going to say this too because I love your opinions on this so Gooding Auction a few years ago a gorgeous

550 was there looking at it loved it inspired me in a lot of different ways with our project

and I started talking with somebody and it happened to belong to a very famous car collector

out of New York who maybe had his own TV show in the 80s and the guy went on to tell me that the car

was built around essentially a piece of chassis the size of a shoebox that that was all there was

original on the car the guy may have been telling a story that happens a lot but that was the essence

of it and so this tiny little car piece of 550 whatever chassis number it was and then the frame

was new the body was new engineers new transmission was new because you can get all that stuff because

Germans are amazing you know you know reproducing all that stuff and there it was being marketed as

original car based on this tiny little you know amount of original chassis real or fake

is there three other ones where they used other parts of the car out there

I mean cars get created out of in plates I mean a big plate could exist but that's what I'm saying

Casey's is so does that make it real or fake if it all this is just a been plate well it's goes back

to these the assist ship yeah how much of that ships real if you replace every single piece of wood

and do people care and I guess you're saying on the extremes that I I totally believe I think

for the people that I deal with that trade in insanely rare special cars it matters I believe

of really people that are going to spend millions of dollars on a 550 would look at that and they

would hire somebody to come look at the car and they'd say look at this thing tell me what you

think about it and they would tear it apart but I don't know I didn't see the car because I believe

that in the top echelon of vehicle collectors like some of the people that I represent they pay

people that are a lot smarter than me to go do these inspections to make sure that it's the

real deal I mean there was that famous case a while ago about that same comedian bought a car

that was misrepresented and it resulted in huge lawsuits that's something I never want to partake

in so if I come across something we're talking about Rosie O'Donnell to the famous 100% we're

not talking about Jerry no I thought it was Fran Drescher but that's where we are so but

you know so I'm glad Dave got a kick out of that but anyway that's that's an obscure poll Casey

which is what I like I mean there we go and we're no no no old fashions into this morning but you

know it it's an interest it's an interesting position and like I said I believe it only matters

to the person buying the car and the person that's willing to pay all the money for the car yep I

agree well okay I think we've beaten this one into the ground listeners viewers let us know what you

think because frankly I think this is going to be yet unresolved so we've talked about two potentially

controversial things shelf life of magnesium Porsche wheels and also is it real or is it fake do you

guys want to keep going it's up to you I think we should do this or that I agree I knew you guys

weren't gonna want to do the EV thing I knew it yeah all right let's move on I don't blame you I had

electric cars yonor Dave Dave does he already talked about electric cars today hey case hey Dave

ask Casey about his day current man ask Casey about his 964 and what happened because he just

threw it through a barb at you I got the world's nicest cigarette lighter USB adapter

I was telling you that I can 3d print a insert you can stick on that USB the one that doesn't fit

in the stupid ass tray or excuse me the lighter and it'll be just as good we'll we'll sell those

too that'll be part of the full throttle talk collection yeah that and dog bandanas

hey you know we got it we got all the pieces covered Casey why don't you go first this or that

okay cool so I one of my clients sent me this car and I think it's a it looks like a terrible idea

this is a a 2001 S62 powered which correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's the engine from

comparable m5 of the era coupled with a six speed manual transmission it's finished it's a

short wheelbase originally a short wheelbase 7 740 finished in esterel blue which is probably the

best BMW color of all time and one of the best BMWs of all time if you guys have never driven

a short wheelbase one so they're freaking awesome we used to call them sporty shorties sporty shorties

and the only thing to me that would have made it better would be those split dished five spoke

wheels or split 10 you know the ones I'm talking about that I think came on the 540 and parallels

of that era so this car has who knows how many miles on it because it's you can't even tell if

it's real because it there's so many different parts in this thing but it's got um the the it's

got a zhp shift knob so the driving while awesome people will certainly love it and it's got it's

just all over the place but it is a really interesting car this car like I said who knows

how many miles because it's got all kinds of stuff swapped but hammered for 54 grand um

and the other car so I was thinking q ships right I was thinking things that you could drive for

long distances and the other car that I had interest in was this car um this is a 2005

e55 wagon uh in silver there you go Tim that one's for you the other Tim uh the other silver

Porsches Tim so silver Mercedes e55 wagon this one had a bunch of miles on it too but it showed

really well and it looked like it had a bunch of history with it this one sold for a similar price

48 grand plus fees back in June of this year um I had a special part in my heart for those uh those

e55s actually have a wheel of one of them still because when I worked at the dealership in college

I used to drive around e55s all the time and I thought they were cool they made great super

charger noises so those are the options we have a Frankenstein manual transmission 740i

with an m5 power plant in it or we have a pretty original uh 2005 e55 wagon those are awesome choices

Paul you go first good job Casey oh um yeah I I I'll take I love a sporty shorty and the e38 body

is one of the coolest a manual that that I actually wish they would have put the v10 from the e60

because that would have been badass because that I think is one of the best motors at BMW made that

no one cares about um I gotta take the the astral blue it it just tugs at my heart strings um it's

just unique you'll be the only one with that thing and get rid of those ac schnitzer wheels

and put on uh some m parallels how about you Dave which would you choose oh not never the minute

you had me at hello with the blue car for sure the BMW the e38 iPhone 2 old sporty shorties um

I just think that was BMW's pinnacle for a big sedan it was uh it's just a gorgeous car I still

love the proportions of it um you know when you roll up on one from behind I think it's just a

gorgeous look the balance of that car is fantastic and uh that particular color is absolutely stunning

so I'm I would absolutely take that one have you guys ever driven one of those long wheel base with

the v12's I've driven all I've driven all the variants the v12's the sporty shorty just a regular 740

i l um they they my favorite thing in those cars if you remember and I don't know why more did it

but the seat the back of the seat you know you have normal tilt on the back it clam shells

it curls so if you take the back of a seat you split it in half if you think about the human

body the the we kind of lean forward and this thing would just it was like a leather it was

like leather spooning you while you drive it was so good I love those seats sorry I agree tip threw

up in his mouth I just yeah I was wondering where you're gonna go that's just like you run yourself

off the cliff I would 100% choose that one as well Dave do you have two choices I don't see anything in

the sheet no I do but I do these are these are these were almost tied back to the last conversation

as well because the two choices that I'm presenting today are both in the $200,000 range the car behind

me is an 88 one of 31 slant nose Targa turbos made at Porsche this car I've talked about on the show

before this is a car that got damaged early in its life we brought this car back to being the Targa

that it was born on right so if this car was had been unmodified and had not any kind of previous

bad history this would be a four or five hundred thousand dollar car this car is probably more in

the $200,000 range right now because of its history but we've put the car back together

beautifully it's fantastic it looks great it's on display right now at the Porsche dealer here in

town and this car is probably a car that's worth a couple hundred thousand dollars versus our

star from the Lufka cool show here and just for the record that red car originally was born as a

slant nose originally was you know the whole thing and just that's important to mention that because

that is a really rare car and it's real it's a real car real serial number real Porsche certificate

there's nothing about that car that is not a hundred percent what it was other than it now

doesn't have the original Targa bar welded to the car and it doesn't have the original glass

everything else on the car is as it was in 1980 the car's only got 17,000 miles on it okay similar

car roughly 200 grand this was a bill we did for this client this car he's told me this car is

available this is the copper brown metallic car that we just displayed it is a 78 SC but we

dripped this car to the tub bare metal full restoration every bit of the car is new it's

still got kind of its stock motor but all refreshed transmission interiors custom

it's got kind of a roof front bumper setup and a custom rear bumper setup

you know it's a great car it's fantastic and you know if you want to make this into a cool hot rod

you add a little horsepower to it and boom you know it's a freaking phenomenal looking car with the

nickel plated trim and everything you know around this car it's just fantastic car

both cars think of both as being roughly two and a thousand dollars which one do you pick

kasey you go first i drooled over that brown car um a lot um on saturday when we were hanging

out in your booth and saturday night the details on it are crazy the thing he didn't point out is

it's got um it's got 964 uh shark fins on the side of it and rocker covers which i'd never seen

somebody apply to an earlier car it's super rad all the trim on the car as dav said he went through

the process with me with the sara coating and then they tried different i guess they used what a

mat or a satin um clear over top of it that car to me was insane um that but between those two

cars i'm not a big slant nose guy so the decision for me is easy i but even if it was a normal 930

turbo i'd still pick the car behind dav because the build quality on that thing was so right

so you would choose a normal 930 turbo over that car i mean you know not a slant nose not all

the 1980s blitz you would still choose that over that i'm not it i'm not a huge 930 guy to be honest

especially 930 slant noses i look after two slant noses and an 89 targa with a five speed and i'd

still pick that car that i think they're better driving cars sc's that still have great steering

feel all that stuff goes away awesome what do you how about uh you paul which would you choose

um i'm a 930 fan but between slant nose and targa i just i it kills the 930 part to me and

then you add the fact that just the value of it's always going to be that's going to be the sales

guy of me goes oh that car will always be hard to sell because the guy who's got 200 grand will

spend three or four hundred grand so he doesn't have to have a story that being said the copper

car looks beautiful i would say that if it were mine and i had an empty checkbook i go hey dav

i'll take the copper car take that three liter out go put a 27 mfi rs spec motor 9 11 83 as close

as you can because i think imagine that car kind of built as a like a euro carrera tribute thing um

and i always tell people if you drive a really proper 27 mfi car in that kind of body you'll

stop shoving weird motors in these early these old cars i like the brown car better too and uh

all the reasons you guys stated and he didn't mention it's got kick-ass air conditioning

that he put in uh done check exactly but i'll say the reason i like it better and i think you

guys are kind of hitting at this too is it's less flashy you can have more fun in that brown car

no one's gonna look to copper car sorry no one's gonna look twice at it um you know i'm at a point

in my life where i'm not trying to draw more attention to myself that's for damn sure can one

of you guys help me out with my two choices and i know i put four options up can you guys this

9 6 so here's my this or that a 2016 Porsche i'm actually especially interested in Casey's

opinion oh i so i loaded these pictures because i wasn't sure if you're gonna the other ones

can you do the other ones yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay thank you paul i really appreciate it

so it's a 2016 and these are both sold so we know what they sold for and uh you know 9 11 r versus

a 2019 uh Porsche 9 11 speedster i think we could argue that they're the best of the

that particular 991.1 was arguably the best was the r and the 991.2 arguably the best was the

speedster you know if you guys want to debate that we can it you know i'm open to different

interpretations of what the best means but yes so and he'll put up the pictures here in a second

for the view those of you who are playing at home hopefully soon uh here here they come sorry

i it's funny i predicted i predicted that you would do uh the other two so um what happens when

tim gives us you know two choices and he takes four right i did i not say he was own damn rules

i did i did three last week and i got chest eyes all right so there's a 9 11 r all right

so there's the speedster thank you paul and by the way if you guys read my notes i did say

that one of you guys could steal my two choices right if you wanted to all right so uh i have the

speedster i love the car brilliant car you know i don't know let's say other than that um the uh i

mean just looking at that picture right there makes me want to wish i was there driving it right now

some of the best driving experience i've ever had a car and are in the speedster

i had a touring i've had two tourings and between the touring experience and the and that's

essentially what a 9 11 r is and the speedster experience to me the speedster experience is

easily 10 times better because you can hear the engine you can hear that have all the experiences

of you know driving in my particular example in appalachia and having more of a you know a

visceral experience than the constant tire noise of the tires making all the ruckus in the back of

the car paul you're going to go last since you're already snickering at me kasey what would you

they both sold for 450 so kasey what would you choose and why um i wish the i don't mind the

heritage package on this the speedster but i prefer it to be a solid color honestly um we have a

listener that i engage with from time to time who's got a bruster green or irish green one

but that would be perfect in that car but um i've a considerable amount of seat time in both of

those um and i would pick the speedster every single day of the week it's i think the engine's

a little bit more interesting um but they drive very similarly in my opinion um but being that

the top comes off and the speedster gives it more of a sense of occasion and i think it's a more

interesting car i'm going to say this you guys might find this interesting so we have that car

and we have a 718 spider rs again i always think whether i should say these things because i know

i'm going to get crap for it but i'll give it to you just say it just say it i'll give it to you

this the speedster is honestly made better than the spider but better than the 718 when you when

like i was replacing i was putting a lightweight battery in the 718 i took apart all those you

know bits and bobs it's not painted and there's other little type you can see there's the speedster

is absolutely put together in all the places that you would never look and i do look better

and just it's fascinating because those special cars really are made at a higher level

at least in that particular example so david what would you choose and why

i would take the uh the speedster as well i've always found those to be extremely attractive

cars um now you know normally i would be very concerned about what it might do to my hair

to run with the top down but however with that not a fact or any longer i think the speedster is

just a extremely attractive car i don't even mind that one although i'm not quite sure what's

going on those front fenders if that's a just an image issue a photo issue or if that's really some

kind of two-tone thing on the front no it is that's the heritage that's the heritage pack to me it

looks like someone who taped off their car for a track day and that's a bad thing okay if that's

the heritage pack i didn't realize that on that car i mean i i got it with the uh you know understood

the okay it's really just the front bumper it's a front bumper and then there's darts but that's

basically what they did to race cars in the 50s and 60s 356 in particular those interiors which

i'm always obviously drawn to as well i just think the interiors in those heritage package cars are

fantastic you spend a lot of time in the car i like to look around in the car and see interesting

fabrics and things like that in the car so that was that's my choice for sure kramer what do you

what about you what would you choose and why man um you guys all have good points um and i

my two issues with the speedster is i just don't like convertibles and i know you can put in speedsters

is is more of a convertible and i hate the rear ends i hate the way the rear ends look and what's

worse than that is when you're behind one of these in their rear end and that stupid wing the thing

that comes up i now granted you're driving the car you don't see it i just don't like that and

honestly i think if it wasn't before we just saw that um it was the intercooler episode where they

compared the we talked about last episode the rs 4.0 the 911 r and the new st i think if it wasn't

for me watching that and re falling in love with the 911 r um i would choose the speedster but there's

something about the 911 r and here's the thing is tim you brazed over you're like hey i had a

touring so it's the same nine same as the 911 r which is like fighting words to the 911 r i mean

experience as far as the noise about i know but no but you said oh i had a touring and so i got

the 911 r experience so we both know dirk lair and he's sort of a no bullshit guy and he had and he

that out and bleep that out yeah and he hasn't sorry i did one earlier it's it's really hard for

me not to to curse me he has a 911 r and he's had a touring and he's not doing it to boost the

value but he said there is is it worth the the the hundred you know now it's about 200 000 double the

value for the 911 r that in terms of different maybe not but it's he said that there was this

specialness that you kind of lost on future cars sort of the last of this raw analog whatever you

want to say so me personally i would take it almost in this spec that you see except for i

would put green stripes on it um even though this was the bp heritage it was technically red but

everyone thought it was green but i like the green but it's got ceramics it's got i think it's the

single mass flywheel need that which by the way cracks pepper was a single mass flywheel

like i was asking a collector well if you got the dual mask and they they wear out eventually

can't you just put the single mass on right yeah you're there so like i don't understand

that's a whole weird conversation with collectors like oh because but if you change the flywheel is

is it original is it nice is it fake but my answer my answer is 911 r my 11 r but you guys

you guys made a compelling argument i almost changed my answer well you know those cars you

remember what those things were selling for when they came out in the day i like over a million

bucks isn't that incredible i mean yeah that just astonishing to me and you know we're not

going to talk about this week but i've been kind of tracking the st market because i think it's

you know giving us an indication with the other special edition cars are going to do

peak and then you know kind of come down really fast but we'll talk about that on next show

all right so clearly paul is wrong and the speedster wins all right paul you're up next

and going a different direction we talk this is sort of going on to last week old timer versus

young timer and these two cars ended auction at the same time and it was kind of interesting

and a little disheartening there was this 1972 desirable side oil door one year only

911 t coupe five speed manual factory sports seats that were pretty decent

he i would say the downside is it would have been an mfi motor because it was a us car they put

carbs on it it happens all the time the seller took great photos he didn't do a very good job of

like this is a car where you find out if its numbers matching and it's and it's not easy these

days because they make you go to portia classic but there's some ways around it but he had good

photography his engagement was a little vague he put compression numbers up but when you looked at

the when i looked at this car it sold a week ago for 69500 hammered hammered for 69500 a dry

straight compression numbers pretty decent i think it was a everyone said at the end after people like

bullied it it was a good deal and then the same day this bad boy closed so this is a this is a

shop right now is it really it is it just rolled in two days ago i can't wait to hear more about

so this car to me screamed sorry dave i it screamed frankenstein um this was what you built in 2014

because the market was going up and you thought you could cash in they put they took a 74 9 11 and

put the painted it linen gray they put turbo flares on which i'm pretty sure the turbo flares might

have been hung on wrong they might seem too low there's something awkward about the stance

then they threw in these weird seats with like gti interior everything about and then the the killer

is they just got the stock two seven cis motor they slap carbs on with i mean it looks like the

firewalls jiffy pop if you if you know what that is from the did you not hear the bit where he said

that's one of his customers cars dude did you are you just totally being insensitive i know because

here's the thing is i'm setting them up because what's gonna happen is dave's gonna make this car

right this car to me what it screams as a used car salesman who sees people sending the cars

going what do you think this car to me screams shortcut shortcut shortcut how do i make it look

cool and here's the part that just made me throw up in my mouth it hammered for 92 500 it hammered

for 23 000 more than this very pretty 72 9 11 that looked like no one messed with

and and it goes back to our conversation someone will go pay 25 grand more for something that

i swear to god i think needs a lot more work i think that i'm afraid to even see what the

electricals look like in that car um and dave you know i'm glad it's in dave's hand because i think

dave will make it what it should be i think it's fundamentally a good car but dave what would you

choose between the yellow one and the linen one wow wow so i mean the yellow one is a bargain it was

a bargain now obviously i have not seriously looked at this the gray one i was out of town

it rolled in it was in my shop when i got back from out of town so i haven't even really given it

a serious look look look as i look at that three-quarter shop paul that you just had up a second ago

something does seem a little off with the stance i'm not sure if the tires aren't far enough out on

those vendors because they do look does that do it it's the perspective but do those not look like

european bumper things did look at paul look at that for sure there's a euro so that's a great

that's a gray market car then no no no it's not a great market car because i had the same issue

when i first saw it like because the front valence on the car is off a three two so this car is kind

of set up to look like even the dash the inside it's got the 86 plus dash and it with the wide vents

so somebody took great pains on this car to make this car almost forward dated to a late 80s kind

of car wow with the wide fenders and that's my sense is that wide fenders on a Porsche for a lot of

guys they just get lots to you over those i think the car sits a little high right now that's one of

my other things i've had measured it paul but here's the problem with this car we had this we had this

with a couple other cars that came to us that had turbo flares added on putting turbo flares is so

hard on these cars it is incredibly hard and what you look at is look at the front fender and basically

when you come off the top of the fender it should go right into this right into the flare but if you

look at this car it kind of goes down just about an inch and then goes into the flare i think what

happened is someone hung these flares a little too low so then what they had to do is raise the

right height so you got this car where it looks like the tires are fit the wheel well right but then

it looks like it's standing on its tiptoes also i think they put 17s on which i freaking hate

there's but my point is like you have this beautiful no one has touched car for $23,000 left

or you go buy the tammy fey baker uh you know facelift which i think is that problems one of

the sports seats in that yellow car worth alone right i mean that's those are those are 12 15 to

20 grand $15,000 sports seats i mean that's hilarious if they're original right which they

know they are i looked at them they're the correct they're the correct double lockers they

those are original that car i think is more original than most people think that he finally

threw a picture up on the floors with all the carpet out and the floor and the people like

oh look at all that rust it's the freaking glue from the carpet that never had been removed

someone got a really good car because sadly this hurts my heart unless it's a really cool early

longhood i think the people who want driver longhoods is kind of fading away because they'd

rather go buy that crap evidently so what would you choose dave you have to choose one i you know

and i'll say this we will obviously do a little work i think most of what we're gonna do on that

is interior work on the fey car having said that the value on the yellow car is what would draw me

to the yellow car that's a that's a hell of a buy on that yellow car for for the money that i mean

i like interesting colors like is that light yellow paul it's light yellow and i think great

photography but they watched it they i think they watched it a little bit and but people don't realize

if you really polish light yellow it should look like a tennis ball like a that almost greenish

really i just think that's an interesting neat color i would i would take that car i would buy

that car based on the value kasey what do you think both these cars are older than you so um

the where was the yellow car listed paul it was both bring a trailer both close sorry i meant

location uh location was hold on a second 72 uh washington so one car was in washington the

yellow car was in washington and the uh tami fey baker special was in florida oh big surprise sorry

florida so my my two cents um i mean being that they weren't able to prove the heritage of the

yellow car you know you can easily put that car in a flatbed and take it to a portia classic dealer

and they can get a ctc for it which is the move and that probably would have been worth 10 000

dollars on that car um you everybody this is everybody's going to know my pick i mean i don't

even need to say it but that that yellow car especially being that it's a 72 i don't fit super

well in the earlier caros but i would probably maybe get a set of i'd throw those uh in a box and

get a set of like some sort of special seats that dav could make me just to fit a little bit more

comfortably in the car but i don't know i mean pop out windows come on i mean how rad is that i mean

get the dav seats like kasey just said sell those seats put the money in the s and p 500 okay and then

whatever goes wrong in the car the appreciation of the stock in the s and p 500 for the sell the

original sport seats will more than cover the repairs i'll turn the original sports seats into

working mfi back on the car that's what i heard that that's that's probably the move but no i'd

pick that yellow car and heartbeat yeah i think we all would you know there you go but so there it

is there's you know four nerds here they're all choosing the car that supposedly isn't you know

holding value so maybe we're completely wrong maybe these cars are going to just you know find

their own following of folks that are kasey's age and younger which would be kind of cool so guys

we i have great news for you we've broken our record for the longest podcast we've ever done

oh sorry no it's fine i think hopefully we everyone enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed doing

at least i did uh do you guys want to go to listener questions for the next show or do you

want to do them today it's up to you next show next show all right next show i agree all right so

listen on behalf of all of us here at full throttle talk we want to thank you for helping keep this

podcast much to our absolute bemusement and almost dismay so popular amongst all the primarily

portion nerds out there for those of you who met with david kasey and i at luft it was real honor

and pleasure to meet with all of you please help us get the word out like and subscribe if you're on

itunes give us a five star review as a lot of you already are and leave a piffy comment and we

really sincerely do appreciate even though we didn't get to him today questions and comments you can

leave them on youtube you can direct messages over on instagram at full throttle talk communicate

with us help us to make this show so that you enjoyed as much as we enjoy doing it so guys

thank you for this week and everyone else will talk with you next week on full throttle talk see

you guys see you guys thanks everybody

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