Rally2 is a category of rally race cars with rules about what the car is allowed to be. The ARC2 is being built to compete against that kind of race car, but at a lower cost.
Car
GRD Motorsports ARC2
The ARC2 is a rally car project GRD Motorsports is building. Marcus says he tested it and found it was already working well, with only minor tweaks needed before the next test.
Concept
proper test
A “proper test” means a real, planned driving session to check how the car behaves. Marcus is saying the ARC2 worked well right away during that first serious test.
A rally development test is when the team takes a rally car out to learn how it behaves and to improve it. They try it on the real road surface (like gravel) and adjust the setup so it’s easier and faster to drive.
A shakedown test is an early test to make sure a brand-new rally car is working correctly. It’s like a first check before the team pushes it harder on the actual gravel or stage roads.
Gravel is a tricky rally surface because the tires don’t grip the same way all the time. Testing on gravel helps the team understand how the car will handle on real stages.
These terms describe turning behavior. Understeer is when the car feels like it won’t turn enough and pushes outward; oversteer is when the rear feels like it wants to slide out.
Engine mapping is how the car’s computer decides what to do when you press the gas. Tuning it can make the power delivery smoother and easier to control on slippery gravel.
The diff is the part that controls how power goes to the two driven wheels. On rally cars, it can be tuned to help the car grip better and stay stable on loose surfaces.
“Rally Two” is a rules/class level in rallying. The team is building the car to match the kind of specs and performance that cars in that class are expected to have.
Horsepower is a way to measure how strong the engine’s output is. More horsepower usually means more potential speed, but rally teams also have to keep the engine reliable for long stage runs.
The gearbox is what helps the engine deliver power in the right way for different speeds. In rallying, it matters for getting good acceleration and keeping the car controllable.
Shock absorbers help the car handle bumps. In rally driving, they’re important because they keep the wheels working well on uneven roads.
Concept
park expose concept
Rally events often have a public viewing area where the cars are parked and fans can walk around and look at them. It happens before the racing stages so people can see the cars up close.
Formula One is the top level of open-wheel racing, with very advanced cars and races around the world. The host is saying the U.S. already watches F1, so rallying might be able to attract fans too.
IndyCar is a major American open-wheel racing series, best known for oval and road-course events. The host contrasts it with rallying to explain that rally needs different fan conversion than the mainstream U.S. motorsports ladder.
NASCAR is a very popular kind of racing in the U.S. It uses stock cars and is usually run on oval tracks. The host is contrasting it with rallying to explain why rally has to grow its audience.
WRC means the World Rally Championship, which is the biggest rally racing series. If a WRC race happens in a new place, it can help more people pay attention to rallying.
The FIA is the main organization that sets the rules for big international racing. They have to approve and oversee events so everything meets the sport’s regulations.
Concept
ARC2 car
ARC2 is a category of rally cars that compete under a shared set of rules. The discussion is moving from general rallying to what kind of car fits that category.
That phrase means the driver had a tire puncture and had to change the wheel quickly. In rally racing, losing time like that can cost you big places in the standings.
Hyundai is the car brand behind the rally team they’re talking about. When Hyundai wins, it’s a big deal for the team because it proves their rally cars and setup are working.
The Chevrolet Monte Carlo is a type of older American coupe. In this podcast, “Monte Carlo” is also the name of a place/event, so it comes up when they’re talking about a past race result. The car name is being used in that story context.
Concept
electric vs internal combustion in motorsport
They’re talking about switching racing cars from gas engines to electric power. The big issue is whether teams can afford it and support it long-term.
Concept
world championship vs European championship
They’re comparing racing at a worldwide level versus a Europe-only level. They’re also saying the smaller series can be harder for sponsors to justify.
Volvo CE is part of Volvo that makes construction equipment. The speaker is saying they weren’t ready to leave that situation to rebuild a racing team.
They’re talking about whether rally cars should use regular fuel engines again instead of electric motors. That choice changes how the cars are built and how the competition rules have to work.
Rallycross is a racing event where rally-style cars race on a track that’s usually shorter and more mixed-surface than a traditional rally stage. This segment is about connecting rallycross with the WRC rules.
They mean using a similar base car design for both rally and rallycross. The goal is to make it cheaper and simpler for teams to move between the two competitions.
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What are you waiting for? We're right here waiting for you.
It really isn't every day that we're joined here on Spin the Rally Pod by a world rallying
legend.
Two-time world champion, 30 world rally wins from Finland.
Have you guessed it?
It's, of course, Marcus Gronholm.
Marcus, what an honour to have you here.
I'm going to front up.
I was a massive rally fan as a child through the 2000s, so this is quite strange for me
to have you on the podcast with me, but welcome along.
Thanks for your time.
Yeah, time is running.
You know, it feels like quite a long time ago.
I bet.
Sadly, it does, doesn't it?
Time does move on, but we're not here to talk about what you've done in the past.
We're here to talk about the present day because the astute amongst our listeners may have
seen what you were up to last week, actually, over in America, but fill us in for maybe
those that don't.
What is it that you were doing and why was it so important?
Yeah, it's a GRD project.
Johan Ragnarsson came up with the idea to build a rally car, which could be a rally
two level and compete with that car in US and built in US.
And the idea is to sell these cars then when they are ready and when we have shown some
speed.
Yeah, so I was there testing for two days last week.
So as you say, it's a car built by GRD Motorsports called the ARC2, isn't it, which is meant
to be effectively a cost effective alternative to the rally two cars that we see there.
The project was announced last year.
Your name was attached to it, but it's taken obviously time for him to build the car before
you could get to drive it.
What were your initial impressions having driven the car last week?
No, impression was that we had absolutely no problem with the car first time in a proper
test.
So everything was working.
Yeah, we just found a few small things to change and to make better.
So next test, they are working now hard to get the parts and things done.
So I think in June, we are doing the next test.
Okay, so it's not too intense a program.
They're doing what they can, but it's not like you're out there every week.
I would say a little bit more than a private team, but still, you know, quite small teams.
So it takes a bit more time than a big, big factory.
How much do you enjoy this process, because I know it's been a while since you were, I
guess, a professional rally driver, but very clearly, your skills are still valued by teams
over the world, which is great, isn't it?
Still, I think the speed is okay on a test road, but maybe not in the rally anymore.
So, yeah, it has been, it was nice days out there and enjoyed it.
Yes, it was quite relaxed.
So it was no stress.
And yeah, good.
I imagine you're not going to be in a position to give away too many secrets, but for those
listing that maybe haven't ever been to a rally development test, if you can just explain
a guess why you do it and what kind of things you work through on a typical testing.
No, okay, this was a completely new car out of the box.
Okay, they did some shakedown test, just driving around the workshop or something like that.
But now we were first time out on the gravel road.
So of course, you test the first feeling.
How does it, you know, had the handling, how steering in and not oversteering or understeering?
The car was in good balance.
So, so now, now, and then we worked on more of engine mappings, shocks, not so much on the
diff this time, but next test, yes.
And yeah, then we tried to get some more speed out of it and trying to go fast.
That's always the plan, but for a new rally car like this, at this stage of its development,
what would you say is the most, I guess, the most important thing for the car to have as a base
to build from?
No, like I said, that the most important thing that it's working without problems.
So you can, you can do the runs, you can, you can do the test.
Otherwise, I have been in the past, you know, when, when we had so much problems,
we couldn't run the car, nearly nothing during the day.
So that's the most important in the beginning that you can drive, drive, drive, and then you
come up with improvements.
For you, obviously, you've got a bit of history in America, in your competition career, particularly
in rallycross.
But was this the first time you'd ever driven a proper forest rally stage out there?
Or had you done it before?
No, no.
This was absolutely the first time in the rally car in US and on the rally stage.
First time for everything.
How did you find the roads out there?
The road, we had a, we had a good, you know, place to test a hazard in Kentucky, the small
community on town.
They treat us really nicely.
And we, they had a proper test road with road closers and everything like it should be.
So thanks to them.
Good.
Okay.
And in terms of, I guess, the car's potential, obviously, we are so very early on in this
process.
So it's hard to know exactly where it's going to end up.
But can you feel that this car has the potential to, I guess, achieve its objective of being
at rally two performance?
I think, yes, we, we had quite a good feeling.
Yes, of course, we need a little bit more speed, a little bit more power.
But the main things are there.
So quite happy.
What are the, and again, you might not be able to tell me everything, but what are the,
I guess, the specifications of this car?
What engine is it got?
What kind of power are they aiming for?
What kind of components are basically making up this car?
It's, it's an, I think it's the original Volvo engine 300.
It should be 360.
You can take 360 horsepower out of it, but we are going down because we, they want to
go like a rally two cars level with them.
So, and also the engine is made that it will run, you know, many, many kilometers.
It's cost friendly and things like that.
And yeah, it's, it looks and sound good.
So yeah, and there are good shock absorbers, gearbox seems to work.
Yeah, things to do still, but the good beginning, good start.
Am I right in saying that this car is meant to hit stages properly next year?
Have I got that correct or am I way out with my estimation there?
No, it will be earlier, I guess.
Okay.
There is a plan, plan, but I can't say it.
That's fair.
Um, okay.
Okay.
I can read between the lines there, but I'll not push you.
That wouldn't be fair.
We'll see.
We'll see you indeed.
Um, but I guess rallying in America, Mark, because I don't know if it's something you've
paid massive attention to before, but for me, and obviously I don't think it's something
we're very closely aligned to, um, the growth seems to be there.
I think Yari Mati Latva went out to Olympus last month, didn't he?
And really there were some aspects of that that you really, really liked, particularly
this park expose concept they've got where all the cars line up with the fans before each day of,
of rallying.
Have you had a chance to maybe speak to Yari Mati and see what you found him at all?
I spoke with him just briefly and he said that it was a good experience and he liked it.
Of course he won the rally, so he was happy.
So, uh, yeah, he was, he said that it was a good, good one.
Okay.
It's growing the interest there and I, I, we will see.
Well, this is it, isn't it?
You and I both come from rally mad countries.
You're obviously in Finland.
I'm from the UK and you don't really need to convince too many people to love this sport,
but America, they're all into NASCAR, IndyCar, whatever, they're the big motorsports, maybe
Formula One now.
And that's what we need to do as a sport is bring them to rallying because we all know it's the best.
It's just convincing.
Of course, of course, it's the best, but yeah, everybody, they want to do what they do, but
yeah, Americans, they, they, they love, you know, NASCAR and these IndyCars,
but this is a completely different thing.
But still I see that it's, there is a small interest in growing.
Do you think having a WRC event there will make a difference?
Obviously, that is the intention for, for next year subject to all the FIA pre was going correctly.
Of course, it, it helps a lot if it, it goes that way.
So people will get more, more interested and so sorry, I think it's a really, really good thing.
Okay.
And back to the ARC2 car for me, because the question has just popped into my mind.
Is there any way, any world, any planet that we see Marcus Gronholm drive one of these things
competitively or is that chapter of your life now behind you?
Yeah, I don't say anything.
Maybe or maybe not.
Would there be chance of any Gronholm to drive the car?
Obviously, a Sunday class is doing rallying in Finland this year.
That's a good question.
That's also possible.
Sounds like you're cooking some interesting products.
So definitely keep our eyes peeled.
Yeah, we will see.
But I guess in general, and it's quite a potentially a philosophical question, but
you've obviously achieved many things throughout your career in business and motorsport and
everything, but how refreshing is it to be involved in a project like this from the very start?
Like as you said before, your name was attached to this basically when the world found out it was a car.
And you've done this a few times.
I seem to remember you worked with mellos, Elliott Motorsport, was it with the Proton
quite a few years ago?
Like you haven't done quite a lot.
Yeah, that was just a few tests with that car.
And yeah, that's true.
It's interesting.
It's a small, you know, it's not so big, big, big thing with big factories and pushing here and
there. So it's quite nice, nice to have this small and nice, small and tiny.
And where does this fit into the world of Marcus Gondland?
What is your life like nowadays in 2026?
My life, yeah, up and down and, you know, too many things.
But what I'm doing here in Finland, and I need to sort out, I think, a little bit to make it
easier.
Yeah, I think we could all learn from that, to be honest.
You say yes to things and then suddenly you've got to do them.
I say yes to many things and then I am, you know, in panic with my schedule and time.
All the weekends are gone and oh, it's difficult.
But it's quite bizarre, isn't it?
I guess because maybe people don't know what happens to drivers once they stop competing
in something like the WRC.
And for you, it's not far off 20 years now, which is crazy to think.
But your life hasn't slowed down, has it?
You've just been doing different things in that time.
Yeah, and, you know, it was much easier when I was driving.
I had Timor Altian as a co-driver.
He told me, pick me up, seven or five from home, we go to the airport.
And after that, I don't need to think anything.
Just, you know, now I do my own schedules and it's a big mess.
Yeah, you know, it's the best thing about co-drivers, isn't it?
They always have everything worked out.
Yeah, it was easy days, you know, even if we were, okay, traveling a lot, but nice.
You obviously still be in good contact with Timor, I imagine, as well,
because there's a family connection there.
I know he's a good friend of yours.
So I mean, imagine you're still talking quite often.
Yeah, but Timor, you know, he's not that chatting and talking speaking.
He calls me only if he have something really important.
Otherwise, it's silence.
Yeah, Timor, for those that maybe don't know, is working in the FIA just now,
as well, isn't he?
So he's also a very busy man with different...
He's busy.
I heard he's, yeah, he's flying here and there and, you know,
the new rallies, he goes to check them, even if he was on the way to US next month.
And yeah, all the World Championship rallies, and then he goes here and there.
So yeah, he's busy.
If you don't mind, I would like to quickly ask you about the WRC event we've just seen
at the weekend, as well, in Portugal.
Again, it seems to be a theme this year.
We've had some quite dramatic drama at the end of rallies.
This time, unfortunately, for Sebastian OJ, it was a puncture change
that meant he dropped from first to sixth.
Thierry Neuville took the win after that crazy Croatia mistake on the Paris stage.
I don't remember if you've ever been in a team in quite high-endised position,
but how much do you think this will mean to that entire organization to get that victory,
particularly after what happened in Croatia?
I think it was perfect and really nice that Hyundai won because they need it.
They have been so low now with the results and everything.
Toyota had taken everything, so it's also for the sport is very important.
So it was good.
Okay, OJ had bad luck, but that's how it is.
Yeah, I think you're right from the sport angle,
because as much as you should never punish a team that's clearly doing so well,
like Toyota is, for all of us that are looking in,
you kind of just want a little bit of some extra competition.
But in fairness, the Toyota drivers are so evenly matched now
that actually even when the Hyundai isn't in the fight, we've still got a battle out there.
There is, yeah, five cars going fast in the top.
So yeah, they have a good driver lineup.
Yeah, that's how it is.
We hope for something more next year.
Some other teams and let's see how it will be.
Yeah, this is the big question.
This is what happens next year.
But do you mind if I ask you about Sebastian OJ as well?
Because I can't remember if you would have ever really competed against him.
Maybe in some very, very last minute, but not directly.
But how impressed are you that, I mean, he's 42 years old now
and he's still probably the best driver in the championship.
It's quite some achievement.
Yeah, that's true.
And if you remember when also when Ljub came back to Monte Carlo with a Ford,
he won and he was 48 or something.
It's unbelievable.
They are still, you know, driving so much and keeping the written up.
So it's possible.
Rally is nice sport.
You can win rallies after 40, 45 still.
But in other sports, you are out.
So yeah, it's just true, actually.
But I guess you were the example.
Your career didn't retake off until you were just over 30.
Is that right when you're world champion?
So yeah, I stopped.
I thought that, okay, I think it's good to stop before 40.
So I made my decision.
Maybe it was a bit too early.
Not at that moment, but one year later, I thought,
shit, I've done a little bit more.
It was not easy to get the adrenaline kick
from the normal work here at home and in our shopping center.
So I was missing the competition.
Yeah, it's a good point.
It's quite different, isn't it?
To go from driving at that point as well would have been what?
15, 16 rallies a year?
It was a lot.
Yes, yes.
Plenty of testing, always in a car, always getting that adrenaline kick.
So yeah, to miss that is and that's things that people like me who don't do this,
we don't understand that.
You can hear, someone can talk about it to you, sorry.
But I can't imagine what that is like,
because my life isn't filled with adrenaline.
When you are competing, winning and making good times and comparing to the others,
when you don't have it, it's, yeah, what to do then.
Then, but I'm not comparing how many beers the others are drinking and I'm trying.
So that's also another point, which is not so good.
Yeah, that's a good life.
That's a good life lesson as well.
Somebody having a problem with that, but I don't have.
Yeah, no further questions, Gerona.
Oliver Solberg as well, I'd like to talk about him because I think he's had a very mixed
season this year, both amazing in terms of how fast he's been,
but maybe not so good in how many little mistakes he's made.
I don't actually know how close you are with Oliver,
but what have you made of what you've seen of him this year?
Yeah, but he's very, very fast for sure and one of the best out there.
But yeah, of course, he wants to win now, maybe the title now immediately.
So that makes him going too fast sometimes.
He has been also very lucky on many places, but also unlucky, so
so maybe he needed one or two more years to grow and then to show his speed.
Yeah, he's certainly not lacking that, is he?
And I guess with the encouragement of his father, Petri, he obviously knows very well.
He's not sort of people to learn from either, is he?
Petri's character also, yeah, nice.
The other thing obviously that happened last weekend was the European Rallycross Championship,
which is essentially a bit of a rebirth for Rallycross, I guess.
I was going to say in the world, but it's not, is it?
Because it's only in Europe, but it's effectively the world championship this year,
which is something Marcus, you've been involved in quite a lot through your own team with obviously
your son Niklas, competing in the championship.
He isn't this year.
I don't know if you had the chance to really pay attention to the weekend,
but I guess what do you make of this new direction Rallycross is going and leaving
electric behind and going back to internal combustion?
Yeah, it's a bit sad.
We have been, I think, 10 years there in the series and now not.
First, it was a big, big, you know, wow everybody, we have to go to electric now
and Fia was pushing like hell, then they saw that it was not the right way
because there were no teams, not teams enough because it was too expensive.
And then they stopped everything with electric and now there is no world championship anymore
and it's back to European.
Yes, it's in one way it's good, but I prefer the world championship
because there is the status that it's easier for sponsors and things like that.
Now it's European championship.
Yes, still the cost is the same, but you don't get the sponsors alone.
So let's see, there is still good drivers, the best ones are there.
We are not there now, that's sad, but let's see what happens in the coming years.
Was that a conscious decision not to be there, or was it just that you
couldn't be there if you understand the difference?
I was not ready to start a new team after four years with Volvo CE.
Niklas had a drive there, I had nothing to do with that.
So to start again from zero, to build cars and team, no, no, not for me.
That's fair, that is fair.
But you're right, actually, it's a good point.
Obviously, Niklas was with your team for a while until the last few years where he's
gone with with CEO team, wasn't it?
But do you agree that it's quite, well, I don't know, it's difficult, isn't it?
Because I guess we all need to be thinking about alternative power solutions as motorsport.
But do you think it's the right thing that we've gone back to combustion rather than electric?
Yeah, I think so.
But there must be some structure with the rules because it's unclear what will happen
after when the new rally cars, the plan was that 27 rally cars would go into
rallycross and mix them somehow, I don't know.
But I think it's the right way.
People loves it, I mean, spectators and organizers as well, of course,
and so I think it's the right way.
It almost felt to me like if we made, it was the same difference as making the WRC
for rally two cars only.
And there's so many of these cars around that all of a sudden you do that overnight,
you get a much bigger field of cars.
Then as you say, the question then turns to what happens in the future.
And as you said there, that the plan is for, I guess, WRC and hopefully WorldRX,
either way rallycross to share the same platform of car, which is different,
isn't it?
I know we've seen that rallycross cars are similar-ish to rally cars.
Obviously, the Polo that Solberg's team used was based off the WRC car,
but they haven't exactly the same.
It's quite different.
So it makes sense to me to actually converge these two championships because they have
a lot of common ground.
Yeah, that was the plan and I hope they can make the rules now ready for 28.
So if there is a World Championship coming again,
then we will have a plan maybe to do something if you can find a manufacturer.
But we don't know.
Yeah, we'll keep our fingers crossed.
It would be great to see, wouldn't it, to have much more interest back in the championship.
Just on that vein, it's the million-dollar question, so I feel slightly bad asking it.
I don't think anybody really knows, but what do you think the future could be for the World
Rally Challenge?
Do you think this change of regulation that's coming will have the desired effect?
Are you excited for its future or potentially worried about it?
I think it's good for the whole championship.
More cars, more small teams, private teams, maybe more manufacturers.
But maybe the top will be closer to the private areas now, so it will not be the big gap anymore.
So I think there could be some interesting winners.
Or you never know, we will see.
This is it, none of us know.
What we do know is the ARC2 car is coming to the stages some point soon.
Not exactly, we don't know yet.
Some point soon, and Marcus is doing a great job developing it.
Thank you very much for your time today on Spin the Rally Pod.
It was great to learn more about what you've been doing, and hopefully we'll have you on again soon.
And don't forget, if you would like to read exclusive thoughts from Marcus Grunholm on his
WRC career revealing secrets he never has before and what's happening in the current
Scape of Rallying, join Club Derpity, where you can read the III Marcus Grunholm column
every month, exclusively available for Silver members, so make sure you check that out.
you
About this episode
Marcus Grönholm’s latest rallying project takes center stage as he explains GRD Motorsports’ ARC2: a cost-effective alternative aimed at Rally Two-level pace. He describes early shakedown checks, then first gravel runs in the US, focusing on steering balance, engine mapping, and—above all—reliability so the team can actually run. The hosts also connect rally’s growth in America to possible WRC expansion, discuss fan-friendly “park expose” formats, and debate how regulations and powertrain shifts could reshape rally and rallycross.
Two-time World Rally champion Marcus Grönholm joins SPIN, The Rally Pod for a special episode talking about his work developing JRD Motorsport's new ARC2 car, designed as a cost-effective alternative to Rally2 in America. 'Bosse' also offers his views on the current WRC, explains why his team isn't in rallycross anymore and provides an update on what life looks like in 2026
Join Club DirtFish to read his exclusive column every month, and to listen to this episode ad-free.
