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Hi,andwelcometotheWheelsatUndealsPodcast.
Thisweekit'sparttwoofmotorandjournalistMartinBuckley'scararchaeologyepisode.
Wherewelookbackathisextensivephotocollection,goingbacktotakingpictureswith35mmfilmof8130sandoldroversindishewsmillandhavecarparksatStockportandManchesterbackinthe70sand80s.
AndweevenlookathistriptoAmericawhereheboughttheArgaCons,oneofjusttwoMaseratiquattroportes,nowworthaneye-wateringamountofmoney.
Andwediscussifonlytheseveryexpensivecarscanactuallysuckthefunoutofit.
SoIlovethisepisode.
Andifyoudotoo,there'splentyofearlierepisodeswithMartintolistenbackto.
Solet'scrackon.
ThatistheArgaKahnQuattroporte.
Ohwhat'sthebackgroundwiththatonethen?
Sowhat'sayearmatemodel?
It'sa19,Ithinkit'sabouta72,73.
Mighthavebeenthethingittookhimaboutthreeyearstomakeit.
Isthattheoneyou'vegotthebigpictureonthewallof?
ThatyouwenttotheStates?
IwenttotheStatesin2015.
AndIwasn'tintendingtogoandbuythiscar.
Foryourwritinghobby.
Mywritinghobby,yeah.
Iwastherebecauseamatewantedtogo,Jason,andheknewthisguywhoownedheownedbothofthem.
Therewastwo.
TherewastheKingofSpaincarandtheIandtheAgarKahncar.
Howmanydidtheybuild?
Two.
Sojustthetwo.
SosotheAgarKhanwenttotheshowandsawit.
ItwasgotitthroughwaswhatyoudowasofferingMaseratireareplacementfortheoriginalquattroporter.
Okay.
Acleanerlookingcar.
Yeah.
Moremodern.
Itwasaverybeautifulcaractually.
Andalthoughunderneathitisit'sanindie,basically,it'sastretchedindie,whichiseffectivelyaquattroporter.
Sameengine.
AndsotheAgacarandgoes,Iwantthat.
Andhesaid,Thisone'smadeoutofsecondhandparts.
SoI'llbetI'llmakeI'llmakeyouanewone.
Sohedid.
Buttheycovelledontogetherfortheshow.
Inthosedays,Ihavetoworkthisoutnow,andIthinkthisisthecase.
Alotoftheseveryone-offycarsendedupinSpain.
Andthereasonforthatistheydidn'thaveathingwhereyouknowastandard.
Theydidn'thaveaminimumsafetystandards.
Therewasnorules.
Requirements.
Sothat'swhyalotofthesecarsendupininSpaininthosedays.
IthinktheyhadaSpanishmotorshowwherealotofthesecoachbuildersclearedoutallthisgear.
Idon'tthinkitwaslikeannouncedasthat,butIthinkthat'swhathappened.
Andthat'swheresohesoldsomebodytieup,gottheoriginalone.
Andtheylookedidenticalotherthanthewheelsandafewdetails.
Andthentheywerebothblueaswell.
AndthentheArgacargotthenewone.
Andhehaditforafewyearsandhegaveittohisjockey.
AndandthenitwenttovariouspeopleanditwenttothiscollectorininLAwhowaslikemakesmeJLeaneyornot.
Andthismateofmineknewhim.
AndhetookIdon'tquiteknowwhyhewasdesperateformetogowithhim,andIwasneverreallysurewhy.
ButIthinkitwasbecausehewantedarticlesdoneonthecars,whichwasfairenough,andhejustgotgoodarticles.
SoIdidanarticleonthat,IdidanarticleontheMonteVerdi,andthenanarticleonsomeotherthings,andthenIdidalltheotherstuffaswellwhileIwastheretojustifymyexistence.
Okay.
AndIrememberitwasafunnyoldtripbecauseIjustIwastryingtonotdoit,Ididn'twanttogo.
Itjustshowsmeyoushoulddothingsreallywhenyoudon'twanttodothem.
BecauseI'dneverdonethis.
Youneverknowwhat'sright.
No,Iwaslike,ohfuckingLG.
Alright.
Anyway,Igotoutofthere.
Thisplot'sgoing,Iwanttosellallthis.
Thisguywhoownsallthesecars.
Hewasgettingintohotrods,buthehadallthisexotica.
WehadlikeotherMaseratisandFerrarisandhehadLanciaAureliaSpiderandallthefuckinggearthatyouwant.
IsaidtoJasonoutofthecornerofhismouth,whatwouldhesellthatfor?
Sohetoldme,soIcanaffordthat.
Dadhadjustdied.
Andtherewasafewotherbits,neverhadanymoneyreallybefore.
Didhejustnotknowthevalueofit?
UmOrwashejustnotbotheredaboutit?
Hedidn'tneedtoearnthemoneyoutofit.
Anyway,IgotitbackandIguessIsolditforalotmore,butnotgoingannouncedpublicly.
Idon'tthinkthetaxmanwillbewatchingthisforyou,right?
Anyway,Ididverywelloutofit.
AnditwasthankstoJason.
Iabsolutelyadmittingthat.
Butthenagain,hegotacoupleoffreecarsoutofitaswell.
Sowhatyearisit?
Ithinkit's73,74.
Sothesothe75thattheyonlymadetwofor,onefortheKingofSpain.
AndthisistheAgarCar.
AndwhenIhadit,whenIhaditforabitandthendecidedtosellit.
IthinkforaboutfiveminutesIthought,well,maybeIwillkeepit.
Withouttellingsayingwhatyousolditfor,uhyouknow,Iwassohappy.
Thedayyoubuyitandthedayyousellit.
Arethebestdays.
They'rewellintosixfigures.
Oh,itwentit'sworthfarmorethanIsolditfornow.
It'sprobablyworthhalfamillionquid.
Yeah.
Sowecanregardlessofwhatyousolditfor,wecantalkaboutwhatthey'reworthnow,can'twe?
Buttheyarehalfamillionquidcar,Iwouldhavethought.
Butthinkaboutthis.
Tomeitwasperfect,buttheguysrestoredit.
Okay.
Andhaditbeenrestoredpreviously?
Ithinkithadbeen.
Wasitsatanoriginalpaint?
See,tomethere'sabitthere'sahugevalueinoriginalityforthis.
Yes,yeah,itdidn'tneeddoingputtingIthinkthingshavegottobebeyondperfectnow,elsepeopledon'twantto.
WhereasIseethevalueinoriginality.
I'dmuchratheroriginalpaint.
Tome,itwasitwasbeautiful.
ItwascertainlygoodenoughthatyoutakeittoSalonPrivéorsomethinglikethat,youknow,theythinkWow.
Itwastheoriginalleather.
Maybeithadbeendoneinthe80s,Idon'tknow,becauseitwasold,butyes,itranwell.
IknowthissoundsreallyIknowyou'vehadloadsofveryspecialcars,butjustintermsoflabelimportance,isthatthemostspecial?
Okay,yeah.
ThatwaslikeIcouldn'tbelieveitwhenIhadthatcar.
IIjustthought,howhaveIcomefrombeingscuttlingaroundDenton?
TakingroversinfrontofthemillsandI'vegotthebloodyIgercarsquattroportionmyarm.
Wasitorwerewedrivingit?
ItwasnotwhenIdidn'townit.
I'dthrashedthebollocksoffitininAmerica.
Onceyougothere,wereyoualittlegentleman?
WhatforinstancethetherewassomethingIwasjustcompletelyparanoidaboutitbecauseeverythingdependedonit.
AndIputI'veliterallybetthefarmonit,really.
Andanditcamebecameverygood.
ButIwasmessingaboutinitandIwasplayingwithit,andthenIsomehowgotoutofitandbrokethebloodythestalkoffthatlightsonorsomething.
AndIthought,oh,itcan'tbethatmuch.
Anyway,anditdidn'tlookanyway,I'mwrongwithBillMcGrath.
Well,there's600quidthen.
SoIjuststuckitbackonmyIjustwasn'tpayingit,I'mnotdoingit.
Itwasapictureupontherestoration.
Exactly,yeah.
Putsomenewonesonyou,godownthatroad.
No,it'sareallyitwasbeautiful.
Iwasveryprivilegedtohaveit,butI'mveryprivilegedtosellitaswell.
Anddiditcureyouoftherealsixfigures?
ItdidcuremebecauseI'mnevergoingtoImightdo,I'mnotsayingIwon't,butI'mnevergoingtohavethatagain.
Thatscenario,realistically,Ican'trelyonthathappeningagain.
It'sjustacarattheendoftheday.
LikealotmythatRolls-Royceinthere,it'sholdnowherenearasrareasthat.
ButIfinditalotnicertoown.
Ithinktheproblemwithdrivingcarsisthattheresponsibilityofdrivingessentiallyahouse.
Yeah.
It'slikesomebodywritingyourhouseoff.
Yeah,it'sjustsoifsomebodybumpsintothis,whatarethoselightsoff?
Theyprobablyareoffsomethingelse.
Whatifsomebodyitwasjustacompleteit'sjustaworldthatIdon'tI'mnotequippedtodealwith.
Butyouenjoydrivingyourcars,soIthinkthatcarsatthatvalue,itdoessucksomeofthefunoutofdrivingthem,doesn'tit?
Yes,ittotallyscutthefunoutofit.
Anditwasn'tthatmuchfuntodrive.
Itwasfast,butitwasn'tasfastasalot.
I'drathergooutandyou'reonthepathfindingandgoandhaveaniceafternoonanddon'tworryaboutit.
Prettymuch,prettymuch,yeah.
Doyouknowoneofthefunnythingsthathappenedwasthough,whenIhadit,andIwasIwastryingIsupposeitwas18monthsIwastryingtosellit.
Andvariouspeopletriedtosellitforme.
AndJDClassicshadashowroominMayfair,anditwentintotheshowroominMayfair,whichwasquiteflash.
Ohgod,Blanc,I'vegotacarandashowroominMayfair.
Godamazing.
Andthentheywerelikequiteexcitedtohaveit,becauseevenbytheirstandards,itwaslikespecial,yeah.
Andbuttheydidn'tsellit.
Theyputinamassivelygreedypriceonitaswell,thatitwaslikehundredgrandprofittothemorsomething.
Anyway,itwentbyprivatelyintheend.
ButwhileIhadit,andIcan'trememberhowhegot,Igotaphonecallfromaverywell-knownbroker.
Andhegoes,uh,areyoureallygonnathisbuy?
Areyoureallygonnathisbuy?
Hewantstogiveyouhundredgrandforit.
Wellhe'snothavingitnow.
Yeah,they'relikehimthatmuchthen.
Isentitaway.
ButitwastheArcan.
Oh,wasitreally?
OrtheAgacan'ssonorsomething.
Yeah.
Didyouhavethetwitchycollectionfromthedockswhereyou'relike,God,pleasebealright.
Pleasediditcomeoffthecontaineralright?
Yeah,thatwasokay.
Isentitintothespecialistandhadabigoldbilljusttogothroughit,buttherecan'tbethatmuchwrongwithit,becausethebillwasbig,butitwasn'tlikeasbigasitcouldbefromthisparticularone.
HeistheMaseratiguy.
That'samazing.
Soeverythingjustittookthetimeandneededabitofpatience,youneedtokeepyournervealittlebit.
Butyeah.
Wasthatyourdealofalifetime?
Yeah,definitely.
Idon'tknow,itjustcameoutofnowhere.
Butyeah,mydadwouldhavebeendadwasdeadwhenIdidthat.
HewouldhavebeenveryproudthatIhadit,Ithink.
AndI'mgladit'sjustmysortofcarbecauseit'safour-door.
It'sfunnythough,ifyougetaphonecall,doyouwanttodosomething?
Fuckinghell,notreally.
Andthenit'strue,yeah,butthatithastaughtmenottotakethatattitude.
Yeah.
Orifthere'ssomethingthatdoessomething,youneverknowwhat'sgoingtohappen.
IjustwanttointerruptMartinforaminutetoletyouknowthatyoucanwinaToyotaMR2Roadsterwithjust51,000milesonthisweekendfrom75p,andthere'stwofreeticketsforalllistenerswithcodeMR2Pod,that'sMR2POD.
Soifyouareinthedrawer,goodluck.
Right,backtoMartin.
I'lltellyouhisHumberstorybecauseI'mjustwritingaboutHumbersatthemoment.
Icouldn'tfindthepicture,butI'vegotitsomewhere.
It'sanotherJasonstory,actually.
Jason'shadamatewhohadtheexHaroldWilson,HumberImperial.
Andhe'dhadtheplateoffitbecauseitwaslikeHW1.
Youwould,wouldn'tyou?
Butitwasnotabadcar.
Andhesentitofftobepainted,anditgotpaintstrippedandleftinafield.
Soitwasnotasgoodasitcouldhavebeen.
Andeventuallythismateofhis,whowasaniceguy,gate,soIhadit.
There'sanotherone.
ThemoreIthinkaboutmydadsometimes,Ijustthinkhedidsomedaftthings.
HeIsaid,Dad,doyouwantthis?
Ohyeah,yeah.
Dosomethingwiththat.
Sohehasit.
Itwasdifferent.
Hehadairconinit.
Likeamassivebigairconunit.
Well,PMspec.
PMspec,andhehadbombproofingonitunderneath.
Oh,okay.
Didthatnotmakeitreallyheavy?
Oh,probably.
Yeah.
Itwouldn'thavebeenabloodyuseless.
No,Dietisbomb-proofstuff,anditalwaysdrovelikeitshand.
Hesentmeoutinasilverspiritwindowsthatwerethatthickones.
Itwaslikedrivingapairofspecs.
It'slikeitwealwaysdidreallywellsellingthem.
Yeah,it'sprettygood.
Sowe'dtakeapointbuyingthembecausenooneelsewouldbuythem.
Whodoyousellthemto,though?
Wesoldthemto,sotherewasonethatboughtwehadabomb-proofspurandsoldittoaMexicanchap.
Ohhewasabitnervous,washe?
Uhbuthewasquiteyoung.
AndIthinkhewaslikewealthysonofanimportantMexicanbusinessman.
Okay.
Withasfaraswegotwithourinquiries.
ButwehadtodeliverittoahotelinMadrid.
AndsowetookitdownandsoIhadtoIspI'darrangedforforthehe'darrangedfortheconciergebecauseIsaidIcan'tjusthandthekeysinatthedesk.
Ineedtomakesureit'shandedoverproperly.
SoIspoketothehotelmanager,tookthekeysandandIspoketohimandsayshesaid,I'vegotthekeys,they'reinthesafe,we'veballetparkeditforhim,it'sallready.
AndIspoketohimandsaidit'sthereorit'sreadyforyou.
Andhesaid,Ohyeah,don'tworry,I'llcollectitatsomepoint.
Soundstypical.
SoIthinkitwasjustamillionaireplayboywhodecidedhewantedaorneededabomb-proofcarorsomething.
SoundsliketheoneIdrove.
Idroveittoyourdaddidn'titwasyourdad'scar,buthedidn'thaveit,anditwasayouknowtheRolls-Royceplacehewasassociated.
FrankDale'sFrankDaleswassellingitforit.
Yeah,yeah.
SoIwentoutinitanditwasveryslow.
They'rejustveryheavy.
AndtheIcanrememberthethewindowswentupanddownreallyslowly.
Theydid.
Becauseoftheweight.
That'sIdon'tthinkallofthemopenedactuallyonthisone.
Becausetheywere,youknow,Idon'tknowhowyougetthemdown.
Wasittheblackone?
Ithinkitwassilver.
HemighthavebeenaRolls-Royce,notabent.
Humberjusthassomeleadplatesunderneaththedumbbell.
ItwasjustashamethatitwasabitofhistorythatthatImperial.
Iwonderwhatplatediditgoon,doyouknow?
Itwentontojustarandom.
Becausesomebodywon'tknowsomebodywon'tknowthey'vegotHaroldWilson'sex-car.
Sureitjustgotscrapped.
Ithinkthescrappytookitaway.
Suchashame.
Yeah,welljustremembereditnow,justthinkingaboutit,butyeah,itwasanImperial,whichislikethat.
Yeah.
Yeah,andthatwasthat'sthelastone.
Thatwasanumbassida,IthinktheysaidAMCAmbassador,Ithink,estate.
ItwasalwaysparkedinthemiddleofAshton.
Neverused,justOhno,itwasmoved,itdidn'tmoveaboutJ.
Reg.
Becausetherewasaperiodwheretheywereseeit'sright-handdrive,look.
Yeah.
Ionlyfoundthisoutthisweek.
AllthoserighthanddriveconversionsweredonebyCrayfordoverhere.
Oh,okay.
WellwearewithCrayfordConversion.
SoCrayfordareknownforconvertingcarsthatmostlyfixedheadsordropheadstheywereknownfor,weren'tthey?
Theydid,butifyouactuallylookintoit,theydidallsortstheydidoneMerck600Landoletteforafactoryspec,buttheydidit.
Yeah.
Andallthedrawingsforit.
Yeah.
AndMercedeswerequitewereconfidentinthembecauseMercedesletthemdothoseestatesandsellthemasnewMercedes.
Crayfordconversionsareamazing.
Theyactuallyweregood.
Ithinkthefactisthattheyputagreatdealoftimeandeffortintothemathematicalcalculationsofsafetyandrigidity.
Theydidn'tfollowchoppers,didthey?
Theydidagoodjob.
Yeah,therewasnoparticularbackgroundintheyjustweregoodatit.
SoMartin,ofallthecarsyou'vehadovertheyears,whatwouldyouhaveback?
Notforprofit,justtheonlycarI'vehadthatI'dregretselling.
Yeah,20yearsagoprobablynow.
IhadalittlegoldLanciaFlavia2000coupe,likethatoneIhadthatwasredwhenIwasakid.
Anditwasreliable,itwasbeautifultodrive,itwasn'tthirsty.
Youcouldstilluseiteveryday.
Ithandledwell,itstoppedwell,itwaspretty,itneededpainting,butnobodysomehowIneverhadthemoneytopaintit,orandIshouldhavedone,andIsoldit,andI'mreallywishingIhadn'tbecauseIthinkitgotscrapped.
Anditwasn'trusty.
AndyouknowwhattheweirdthingI'mifDermot'swatchingthis,sorry,butIjustonethingIdorememberthiscarwepickedwesawitinloot.
Soitwasitwaseitherjustbeforeloot.
That'sablasterofthepast,isn'tit?
LootwasaLondon.
Idon'tknowifitwasinManchester.
Yeah,itwas,yeah.
ItwasinManchester.
ButitwasLondonfirst,wasn'tit?
Ithinkitwasallfreeads.
Everything'sLondonfirst.
Obviously.
AndandIrememberbecausetheyneverhaditinManchesteranyway,andIwasthere.
SolootwaslikeFacebookMarketplaceeBaytypething.
Printedform.
Butprintedform,butitwasitwasn'tjustcars,wasit?
Itwaseverything.
Itwaseverything.
Everything,yeah,yeah.
Becauseyouusedtogetsomeweirdpeoplebringingyouupthoughfrompubs.
Welldidyounoticeaswelltheytheandtheninthebackoftheloottheydidthelonelyhearts,butaswell.
Oh,didthey?
Yeah,onthebackofit.
Butitwaslikewomenlookingformenlookingforwomenlookingforwomen,menlookingformen.
There'slikeamenuwithalltheseadvertsin.
Inevergotthatfar.
Ionlyjustgotstraighttothecard.
Intherewasthislittlegoldlancy,andIboughtitoffaguywhousedtoworkforthathewasajournalistandheusedtoworkforthethingcalledOnFourWheels,wasthatwhichwasthatmonthlymonththatsortofpartworkthingthatcameouteverymonthandhecollectedit.
Hetoldmethat'swhatheworkedforwhenhewasyoung.
AndheboughtthisLanceywithhisgirlfriend,andtherewasnobrakesonit.
Butitwasreallyoriginal,itwasgold,agreencarpets,itwasreallysolid.
There'sjustsomethingaboutitIliked.
Itwasgold.
Mostpeoplegetagoldcarandtheyimmediatelywanttosprayitadifferentcolour,don'tthey?
Butitlookedgoodingold.
Blackplasticseats,powersteering.
Itwasjusttherightoneofallthoseshapeofflavours.
Ifyoufoundonewiththatspec,theyneverlikedthatone.
YouknowwhatImean?
They'reeithertoomuchmoneyorthey'renottheright.
Therewassomethingthatmadeyoupartwithitatthetime,wasn'tit?
AllIcanrememberaboutitwasitalwaysworked.
Andhehadusedhadthisthing,you'dnotletmegotoofast,butitwoulddo120.
Andifitwouldn'tgoover90,youknewexactlywhatitwas.
Hejustwentunderthebonnetandcleanedthefuelfilter.
Andthenit'ddowhateverspeedyouwantedtodo.
AndhewassosIcanremembergoingonholidayinthiscarwithmykids.
Therewereseatbeltsintheback.
Andweweresattheredoinganamazingspeed.
AndevenCatherinesaidtome,Hewasn'tintocar,Isaid,Itissmooth,isn'tit?
AndwhyIgotridofit,Idon'tknow.
Ijustgotsidetrackedonsomethingelse,andbutititwasaitwasactuallyasensiblecarthatwasactuallyquiteexotic.
Doyouevergodowntherabbitholeoftryingtofindone?
Ialwayslookatthem,buttheyIgetdepressedattheprices.
Becausepeoplewerelike,well,20grandforthingsthatIIseeas500quid.
Iknowtheyareworth20grandbecausethey'rerareandthey'rebeautifulandtheyshouldbeworth20grand.
BecauseanMGBisprobablyworththatnow,isn'tit?
Orsomeversions.
Butyeah,don'tpay20grandforanMGK.
Firstthingsfirst,Iactuallythinkit'sbrilliantthatpeopledoseethevalueofthemnowandthattheyarea21.
Yeah,becauseit'sararecar,theyonlymakeafewthousandofthem.
Idon'tthinkthey'reevergonnagoupsteeplyinvalue.
No.
Butatthesametime,Idon'tseethemdroppingoffacliffeither.
It'sliketheAmericanstuff.
It'sliketheyarea15-20grandcar,havebeenforalongtime,willbeforalongtime.
Butthere'sjustalimitedaudienceforthere'salimitedaudiencethatunderstandthem.
Yeah,Irememberyourdadalwaysdidn'thaveLanciersbecausehesaidhedidn'tunderstandthem.
Hedidn'tunderstandthem,hedidn'tknowtheyjustthemorethanthesumoftheparts.
Soifyouandifyouyoulookatthemandyougo,What'sunlessyou'vehaditandyou'vedrivenit,youdon'tevenIcouldn'texplainittoyou,butthere'ssomethingaboutIthinkasadealingmanaswell,fromadad'spointofview,becauselimitedtherewasalimitedunderstandingofthem,therewasalimitedmarketforthem.
Andbecausehedidn'thaveaparticularpassionforit.
No,itcouldn'tevenmakeithardtohimtosellit.
Yeah,yeah.
Soitwasjustsoitwasthetherewasaneasierwaytomakeaprofit.
See,there'sanothersidetothatwithcars,isn'tit?
Ifyoulikethemtoomuch,thatcouldn'tmakehimhardtosell.
Becauseyoudon'twanttogetridofthem.
I'vefallendownthattrapacoupleoftimes,tobehonestwithyou.
Butit'slikeIjustImightjustkeepthisforaanddoyouknowwhatI'mgonnarunitoverthesummerandthenI'llsellit.
Yeah,youturndownthatbidandtheengineblowsupandyouthinkkickyourself.
Yeah.
Anyway,anyway,touchwood.
Touchwood,yeah.
That'snotveryoften.
Thankyousomuch,Martin.
Nexttimeyou'regonnacomeuptoStockportandwe'llactuallygotosomeofthe.
We'lljustgoandlookforthesetheremainsofsomeofthesearchaeologicalcarsites.
Like,what'stheTonyRobinsonarchaeologyone?
Oh,timeteam.
Okay.
Shouldwedocartimeteam?
Cartimeteam.
We'lldothenextTVseries.
Sothat'sitformytripdownPhotoMemoryLanewithMartinBuckley.
Pleasedofollowmeonsocialmediaattheoldcarlady,andI'llpostafewofMartin'sphotosandPeterCforyourselvesaswellasthevideoofthisepisode.
SoI'llbebacknextweektoopenthebarndoorsonaveryspecialcollectionofmachosthathavebeenonearth.
Afascinatinglookatthehistoryoftheseonceveryordinarycarsthatarenowararemind.
Sountilnextweek,happymotoring.
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