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60:51
Topic
Bud shootout
The Bud Shootout was an early NASCAR race that helped set the tone for the season. It wasn’t the main championship race, but it was still a big deal.
Topic
Daytona 500
The Daytona 500 is NASCAR’s biggest race. If a driver wins it, it’s considered a huge accomplishment.
Topic
Victory Lane
Victory Lane is where NASCAR winners celebrate right after the checkered flag. It’s a very public spot, so anything said there gets noticed.
Concept
sports car crash
This is describing a serious crash involving a sports car. The “burned” part suggests there was a fire or heat-related injury, which is especially dangerous.
Company
Fingerprint Incorporated
Fingerprint Incorporated is the company the speaker says was their actual employer. It’s mentioned to explain who they worked for behind the scenes.
Company
DEI
DEI is the racing organization tied to Dale Earnhardt. The speaker is saying that team wanted to hire them, but it didn’t happen.
Person
Richie Gilmore
Richie Gilmore is a person the speaker met while talking with DEI. The name matters because it shows who was involved in the team side of the conversation.
Term
naming rights
Naming rights are permission to use a name for branding purposes. The speaker is saying that was part of the negotiation process.
Term
IP rights
IP rights are legal rights to things like names, logos, and branding. The speaker is saying the negotiation included who gets to use those assets.
Car
Kia Rondo
The Kia Rondo is a people-hauling car meant for everyday family or group use. It’s designed to be practical, with room for passengers and luggage.
Car
Subaru 360
The Subaru 360 is a very small car made in Japan, designed to be inexpensive and easy to drive. Because it’s so tiny and basic compared to modern cars, it can feel hard to watch or understand if you’re used to today’s vehicles.
LIVE
The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.
Welcome to the business of motor sports.
It is yours truly, Kellyanne Hartmiller.
You know, one thing that I really hope that this series does is open up people's horizons.
I got in a lot of trouble and I got challenge luck.
I don't know why you're coming here, you don't trust us.
I said, no, it's not I don't trust you, I'm running a business.
A lot of people kind of feel like, well, we're we're never getting back to where we were.
Why do we ever get to where we were?
There's so much more involved in decision.
Oh, I want to rip my head off every day.
I say yes to it.
Oh, you say yes on the phone.
Well, you made me say.
This episode of business and motor sports is presented by Arby's.
Don't forget about Arby's new meet and three box.
Get more meal for your money at Arby's.
We have the meats.
All right.
Welcome to business and motor sports.
I'm super excited today to have Mike Davis, president of Dirty Mo Media with us, Mike.
Thanks for doing this.
First of all, you're welcome.
This has to feel a little different for you because you haven't sat at this table for quite some time.
And people are used to seeing you in my chair, right?
Sort of in my chair.
I don't know which chair you sat in.
It was a different table and a different part of the room.
But yeah, this is a little weird, but it is good to be back.
I tell you this, obviously producing all these shows every single week, I'm still connected to them.
But I've never really talked about our business unless I'm in your office or something like that.
So this is a little different.
Are you nervous?
I'm excited about that.
Are you excited?
I'm excited about it.
I'm not nervous at all because, you know, I know where you're coming from because of all those talks in our office and all those things.
But I'm excited because you haven't sat down at the table.
We haven't talked about, you know, the business of Dirty Mo Media, the growth, the risk, the strategy, all the things behind the scenes,
which kind of have to do with why you left the download in the first place, which I know people had a lot of questions about.
And so I think we're going to get into some stuff that will help, you know, clear the air there and kind of talk about what you've been up to with Dirty Mo.
So talking about just, you know, how it was built and all of those different things.
So let's go back to kind of where this started and was looking up.
You started with us in 2007, which is kind of the genesis of where we, you started working here.
But you were just publicist before that for Ann Hauser-Busch.
So let's go back there.
You want to start back there?
Well, you know, start back there from the point of we were in the midst of leaving DEI.
You're on the publicist side for AB.
Yeah.
You know, what that looked like from your angle coming over to working for us and all of those things.
So yeah.
Well, when I think back to how I started in NASCAR, I now look in hindsight and say I was just drinking from a fire hose for about three years, for real.
2002 was my first year in NASCAR.
You were drinking from a fire hose one because you were drinking from a fire hose, but you were working for Jimmy Spencer.
Yeah.
And James Finch.
And James Finch.
Okay.
I mean, come on.
You talk about being baptized in the world of NASCAR.
It was bigger than a fire hose.
Yeah.
It was something.
Right.
I was drinking from a red solo cup, if you will.
But no, it's like in hindsight, I didn't know anything.
I get into the sport.
I remember I moved here on a Tuesday or a Wednesday, and then I was flown out to Daytona on a Thursday because 2002 Speed Weeks had already started.
I'd not met my driver, had never met my team or my owner or anything.
That was a crazy year, really learned a lot.
And then in 2003 was my first year in cup.
And in 2004, I'm working for Dale Earnhardt Jr. in Budweiser Racing.
I don't know how that all happened.
I mean, when I go back and think, we can unpack it if you want, and I can take some theories at it.
But the fact of the matter is it all happened really fast.
And my first race with Dale was the Bud shootout, but then the Daytona 500 in which he won.
And then in that first year in 2004, Dale won six races.
And also was going to win a championship, but then he cussed in Victory Lane.
Oh, and he got burned in a sports car crash.
That was an insane year to be the publicist for Dale Earnhardt Jr.
But yeah, I did that for three years, the Budweiser PR.
And in 2007, I came here and then even how I got here and looking back was a little bit, it's interesting to me.
I don't know if it is for anybody else.
Yeah, let's dive into it.
Yeah, like listen, you know, first of all, I loved Budweiser PR.
I loved the Bud racing program.
I loved working for the guys in St. Louis.
Of course, my actual boss was Jade Gers for Fingerprint Incorporated.
And I loved every single day of that.
And when I think back on why I left, I got to be honest with you.
First of all, DEI had tried to hire me, but that was never going to happen because they honestly just that they were a bit lost.
But I remember Dale Jr. trying to urge that along.
And I remember going to DEI and meeting with Richie Gilmore and that kind of that group.
But at the end of the day, I think I was probably looking for some semblance of stability and there was some uncertainty.
I didn't exactly know why there was uncertainty.
In hindsight, I do, but like, you know,
So at the time that you're working through this, you don't know what we have going on.
I know that you and Teresa are in the middle of a negotiation.
You've gone through IP rights, naming rights, that kind of stuff.
But you're seeing that from your position.
From my position, I'm looking like, I bet that could go better.
You know what I'm saying?
I bet that could go better.
But like, I'm just trying to read the tea leaves.
I don't know that Dale Jr. is going to leave DEI.
I don't even know if you and Dale had made that decision yet.
I mean, again, this is 2005, 2006, that kind of stuff.
And also there was plenty of turmoil to go around without that part.
You had Dale and the Uri split at the end of 04 after a really good season.
Then you had the Pete Rondo, Steve Mille year 2005.
We won one race at Chicagoland.
Then there's the get back together, you know, and you had Tony Gibson and that whole group.
So like everything was just, wow, like in looking back, like just crazy stuff, right?
Crazy stuff.
But at the same time, I just felt like when the opportunity came up with junior motorsports,
I remember being with Dale in a helicopter at Dover or leaving Dover.
And he's like, you going to come work or not?
And I said to him, I said, I don't know.
I don't even, do you guys even have benefits?
You weren't in this building.
You were at the other building.
Yeah, we were out on his property, right?
Or we had just moved in for the race team building, the old Hammerhead building.
The old Hammerhead building.
So like, I didn't know much about junior motorsports.
What you did have was Thayer Laville, who I was impressed with.
And she was kind of, she was coming from a big brand and she thought brand-wise.
And I was coming from a Budweiser brand, which the power of that brand,
like I really got to know the significance of a big, powerful brand.
And so, yeah, there was, there was a lot of that.
And so, yeah, I trusted my instincts.
And I said, there's something that's going to be changing here in this bud ecosystem.
Not sure exactly what, but I'm going to go ahead and take the chance on going to work for Dale
and you here at Junior Motorsports.
And by the way, I was right because there was a big change of coming, wasn't it?
There was.
And, but so Thayer really, I guess, catapulted that for you, you know,
in those conversations and all because I don't remember a whole lot of involvement at that time.
That was on the junior motorsports side and talking about communications and PR and all of that kind of stuff, right?
So 100%.
Yeah.
Thayer Laville was able to speak my language.
You got to also remember, listen,
I know way better today what your language is than I did back then.
But, but again, I mean, my brand of PR, you have to actually back up from my PR days and have to go back.
I kind of came, I came from journalism and newspapers.
And so my brand of PR was all about like, hey, let it out, tell, be honest, tell the story,
what's the real story?
And if you have a good story to tell, own it, tell it, share it,
get it as many people as possible.
And that to me was sort of like how Thayer looked at the world.
Now, she had a lot of crazy ideas that I don't see crazy in a bad way,
but like things that even were above my capacity, you know,
I wasn't thinking, you know, candy bars and children's books and things like that.
But the fact is, is that I liked what she had to offer and I wanted to come work for her because I thought that she had a lot.
And that's what I did.
Like, again, I left the Budweiser PR agency because I felt like there was maybe some more stability with Thayer and yourself.
Not necessarily Dale, because I've always been cleared.
Dale just, Dale's here to race.
So.
But that didn't hurt.
It didn't. No, it didn't hurt.
But again, because I also was traveling with Dale every week.
And that was another thing.
I mean, that was still, I was, I had another five years to go with that of traveling with Dale,
doing the stuff that we were doing.
Actually, 2007 was a big year for all of us because that was the year that we announced that he's leaving DEI.
And then three months later announcing that he's going to Hendrick Motorsports.
And those were historic moments, I thought.
They were historic.
And those are the things that, that's kind of really the, the first thing I remember about you being on our team is, is really working through all of that.
And working through the press scenario that we had here with, I can just see all that media.
It's so different than today and how things look and just being able to work and hold that story.
I mean, gosh, you can't do that in today's time.
The way we laid it out and announced the, the move from DEI.
And then later announced going to Hendrick and then later announced our sponsors and how we were able to keep all of those things contained, you know,
until those big moments when we had, and they were some big moments.
I'll never forget that garage out here at Junior Motorsports and the way it looked for that press conference and all that we went through and all that we did.
I was, and that was a tough time for Dale and I because we were laying our hearts on the line from the family aspect of the business and then moving into the Hendrick Motorsports piece.
It was a big deal.
First of all, Dale was, he was, I remember him struggling through it.
I remember, you remember me, you and Dale going to DEI the day of the announcement that he's going to leave.
We're going to come back over here, but he goes and talks to his team first.
I don't remember that car ride being the most enjoyable car rides we've ever taken.
We've had a lot of fun car rides.
I don't remember that to be one of them, but Dale had a lot of stress on that.
That was a difficult thing, but he needed to do it.
He needed to talk to his team.
Those are things that he was way less comfortable doing than he is.
He's really grown into those kind of conversations, you know, back then.
He certainly did not hold those conversations like he does today.
And then we came over here.
We had a house full of media.
I remember something.
We, I mean, this is back when you had a pretty healthy beat core.
So you had David Pools and Jim Utters and Rick Minners and just the whole group, Monty and Pedley and all those guys.
And we were not sure if Dale was about to get ratioed by this announcement.
We were not sure.
We had no such confidence.
And so what we did, we pulled the media into your office.
I don't know if you remember this.
I don't even think you were probably in there yet, but we pulled them up before the press conference and Dale set them all down.
I can see it to this day and he's like, Hey, I'm about to announce that I'm leaving DEI.
And it was this off the record conversation that we went ahead and got in front of before we did the actual announcement.
So they were already aware of what the announcement was going to be.
And that could have backfired easily.
They could have broke the news and all that stuff.
They could have backfired easily.
But again, I've always sort of just, I've always sort of relied on just being honest with people.
And most of the time they don't burn you.
And that when they didn't, and we were able to have that press conference.
And you'll remember Max Siegel was here for it.
So it was weird.
There was tension, but we got through it.
And then that paved the way for the next, was it two or three months before we announced?
Well, we were about a month between that announcement and Hendrick announcement.
The DEI leaving and then wasn't like late June or something like that when we announced HMS.
And then later, maybe in August or something when we announced the partnerships, I feel like.
Yeah, because we went to Dallas for that.
Yeah.
So yeah, like, I don't know if you remember this, but the, you know, leading up into the announcement with Hendrick Motorsports.
There was a bunch of narratives out there.
All of them were wrong.
Yes, they were.
And it was funny because, you know, I remember Jeff Hammond being on Fox, like a week or two before our announcement.
And he's announcing that Dale's going to Gibbs with Visa as a sponsor.
And that was so far off that we all just kind of laughed about that one.
But then I know like a day or two before our press conference, there was this narrative.
I don't remember who put it out, but it was like Dale was starting a two car operation at Junior Motorsports.
And it's going to be himself and Martin Truex, Jr. driving for it.
And that one made its rounds.
And I remember Jesse Essex calling me and we've been planning this press conference and he's like, hey,
is everything good, man?
We're good, right?
Like this is like, and I said, no, no, we're good.
That's not, that's not.
No, that's not happening.
But those were historic announcements, I thought.
And there's, I'm actually quite proud of the way this whole, you know, I say a little family owned operation.
Obviously we're not a family owned operation, but a small operation.
But we kind of are in the grand scheme of things.
And those were significant.
And that was our, that was my first year here.
Yeah.
So I imagine at the time, the, you know, decision to leave Bud and come to work for us.
You know, it doesn't, it just looked like one of those stepping stone decisions, right?
That you're making for yourself and your career, kind of looking back at it now.
It was a huge moment for what you're doing now.
And you've, you've worked in so many areas of this company communications for junior motorsports,
ran PR communications on the brand team for many years.
Like you said, traveling for Dale, you know, really at the core of an individual through all 20 some years that you've been here,
very integrated into what this company looks like, what our culture looks like, the decisions for Dale,
all of those things been right alongside myself and Joe Mattis and the people alongside.
And then, you know, we have something that it doesn't really fall out of the air,
but Dirty Mo Media comes about because of some of the strategies that you were employing on the junior motorsports side.
And then you have this idea to create a podcast and you create this podcast that doesn't even involve Dale Jr.
You know, it doesn't involve a marquee name.
You bring in Taylor and you'll have to remind me of his last name and everything,
but you bring in Taylor to do the Dale Jr. download and to talk about NASCAR and racing.
So let's talk about that and what you saw because podcasts weren't, they were kind of coming onto the scene, but what did you see there?
What did you see there?
Yeah, you'd have to back up a little bit to the Budweiser days because again, podcasts kind of do this thing where they kind of like,
they hit this wave and then they kind of plateau and different events would sort of surge podcasts back into the conversation.
And they kind of do this, it's kind of like the stock market, they kind of ebb and flow.
And so they weren't that significant when we started it.
But like, again, you go back to what I find my fulfillment in.
One is I create.
Two is I got to be honest and I got to be careful how I say this,
but like, I didn't ever really feel like the Dale Jr. story was ever told very well.
Now there were some really key media moments that were told well, 60 minutes did a nice job.
You know, Dale's, Dale's story was always well told, but you got to also remember that he was always competition wise,
he was going through peaks and valleys.
So a lot of the narrative was like, you know, you know, is Dale still got it and all this other stuff.
And then, and so he was in a season of life where I felt like his story wasn't exactly being told right.
And I felt like there was a lot of things going on.
Okay, so there's that.
There's my urge to create.
There's also, Dale had done his own radio show, right?
Dale Jr. unrestricted.
Yep.
And through that relationship, there had been, or I'm sorry, through that show, there had been a relationship with XM.
I don't even know if they were serious XM at the time, but I think he started that with XM.
I think it was just XM.
Right.
Yeah.
And so in 2008, 2009, I don't recall how it came about, but I do remember there being an opportunity for all of us to sort of chew on.
And that was whether Dale Jr. would go do another show, like fire that thing back up and do it in a much bigger way.
The economy was also tanking at the time.
And so nobody had any money to do anything.
And so we weren't going to go do anything without money, but it did sow the seeds of content generation and our responsibility to tell the junior motorsport story well, which I would start some.
I can't even watch J.M. 360s because they're so hard to watch for me.
Why?
Oh my God, they're horrible.
We didn't even know how to white bounce.
Like our production team, they would really be upset with the production quality.
Nobody cared about that though.
It was just the content.
It was awful.
That's only the technical people that care about that part.
But look, we had this thing where we felt like creating content was a responsibility that you give a big Dale Jr. fan base.
And so we started doing that.
And then also, again, as he's at Hendrick Motorsports, I just didn't feel like the Dale Jr. story was always really told that well.
And I also want to say Hendrick Motorsports has a great PR team, but their interests are Hendrick Motorsports.
Okay, Dale Jr. story wasn't always just when he got to the racetrack.
You know, listen, Dale Jr. is like drink a beer.
He'll like, you know, it always happened after the race and like where he really kind of compartmentalized.
And I was exposed to that because I was flying with Dale.
We were traveling and I would see the Lowe's and we went through some Lowe's and I saw the highs when he got back with Steve LaTard.
Or get with Steve LaTard.
They started winning races again.
And it's like, man, what does it look like for us to open up the book a little bit and show what the Dale Jr. story is?
That's where the seeds of Dirty Moe Media were planted.
All of those things kind of like compounded together.
What did you expect from that initial podcast that you're doing?
I wanted to be able to unpack a Dale Jr. race better than the TV broadcast or the publicist or anybody that.
I felt like that we could go, okay, Dale made a pit stop here and here's why.
You might not have seen it.
Maybe you did.
Maybe you didn't or maybe you don't know what was going on.
So we were using radio transmissions and we could, Taylor Zarser and I could really unpack a Dale Jr. race.
And then you could add to that because of that intimate relationship that you were having.
And I was there.
Yeah.
I was there.
Along the road.
I was there.
And so that first year Taylor Zarser and I, and I give him an immense amount of credit because again, he's a radio personality.
Now he's taken over the world.
Now he's the Tennessee Titans play by play guy and he's the PGA radio on series.
Like he does amazing, big, meaningful, purposeful work.
It then he was a local radio guy.
Then he was a local radio and Charlotte doing an excellent job there and the host of the Dale Jr. download.
All right.
With Mike Davis, which, you know, I don't think that's on his resume.
So we were having fun.
We just unpack a Dale Jr. race better.
I didn't really care who won.
I didn't care about that.
I just cared about Dale and there wasn't anything else like that.
That was the purpose of the download.
Now we also took chances with letting the fans tell us what they thought of the race and you got to go.
Okay, that's all good and well when there's good things to say.
But what happens when you finish 29th?
Are we going to be okay letting the fans air it out?
Yeah.
And that's when we started reaction theater that actually it's on doorbump for clear these days.
It was on the Dale Jr. download back then and, and that was us taking some swings in 2013.
Hey, this is Dale Hart Jr.
And for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the I'm old drinks and beer t-shirt we've been talking about here around the office.
Head over to shop.dirtymomedia.com for all the latest merch.
When did you just really realize that, that it wasn't just kind of a side project and to venture bigger into dirty mode and the download specifically?
When we started having spin off shows, you know, you did one.
Do you remember yours?
Fastlane family.
Fastlane family.
Fastlane family.
Fastlane family with Kelly, Kelly Earnhardt.
And that was doorbump for clear was actually our first spin off show in year two.
We actually had five.
What year are we talking?
Let's see.
I think this is 2013 is when I believe we started the Dale Jr. download 2014.
We started a couple other podcasts.
I think actually 2015 we started doorbump for clear.
And it was again, just taking no money.
Not even a business plan and just, but it was just a content plan.
It was just, hey, how do we generate content?
We would later make it a business plan.
And so the answer to your question is we didn't know that it was more than a side project till much later, but we could produce shows in house and tell stories authentically and, you know, and standing on opinions and getting perspectives from different people.
That are in the sport and it felt good.
It felt good to hear what the spotters had to say and it felt good to hear and Dale Jr.
Now was, by the way, he's now leaving his thoughts in his phone and sending him me a voice memo.
And so now we got Dale Jr.
Sitting at home after a long race weekend sitting there in the bar.
You can hear Buffalo in the background or a dog barking or whatever.
And it was like, you know, it's Dale Jr.
Here and now he's giving us this little bit of information, which is that's huge.
I don't think we can actually overstate how important that was because I never once, and you know this, I never once asked Dale to be a part of it.
That was never the plan.
It was for us to be able to give the Dale Jr. fans an exclusive, the most transparent look into his races in his life.
And I'll lean more into the races because we weren't really unpacking his life at all.
It was the races.
And that was the plan.
And then as we started building shows, we started taking some ambitious swings at some different ideas.
But none of those were asking Dale my, my plan.
And by the way, Taylor and I used to kind of argue about this.
He's like, we need to get Dale Jr. on the show.
And I'm like, look, I'm on the brand team and I'm this PR guy.
I can't go.
I can't go start something that just needs Dale to do it for it to work.
So we need to go do this on our own.
How did that happen?
How did it happen to bring Dale?
I'd be curious on how you remember this.
My memory of this was when he was going through the concussions.
Okay.
I hope this is accurate because this is how I'll tell the story when people ask me.
But I remember when the concussion situation was going on and that was over the span of, I mean a year, right?
Like I remember him missing some races and then they'd come back and, you know, he had the, he had different accidents.
When he started missing races for the first time and we were going to Pittsburgh.
I feel like that was 16.
There was a lot of, there was a lot of uncertainty on what exactly was going on, even between us.
And Dale Jr. wrote the book about it and, you know, none of us really knew what was going on.
But I do remember that we had a moment where it's like, okay, we got to explain to the fans what's going on.
And so we said, oh wait, we've got this mechanism.
It's the Dale Jr. downloaded.
We're going to come down here in the studio.
We're still in the little closet over there.
We're not in the big room here.
And it's like, let's, Dale, he's not the host of the show, but this is the first time that he could get on a microphone and go directly to fans.
They can hear it from him.
They don't need Fox to tell them the story.
They don't need Clare B. Lang or anybody else.
They just can hear it from Dale himself.
That was the idea.
That ended up being way more significant, not just for the fans to hear directly from Dale about what's going on,
but for Dale to actually understand, I felt the significance of the medium.
His voice, yeah.
Yeah, how his voice carries so much more weight.
Like they don't really want to hear from anybody else.
They'll do it if that's the only option.
That's all they got, right.
But to hear from Dale about what's going on with his brain and his injury and his recovery and Mickey Collins and that kind of stuff,
that episode of the Dale Jenner download, which was like a bonus episode, had significant influence into what came next,
because then as he starts planning his retirement and we had that year where he was going to go right out in 2017,
and then his interest in broadcasting was like, oh wait, let's get some reps,
because you know, talking in a microphone with cameras and lights on is different than when you're talking in your phone or anything like that.
And so that's how I remember it.
I don't know, do you remember it any differently?
Not really.
That was, you know, all of the things that, and I wish that I had somebody gave me the memory part of DNA, but Dale got it.
I didn't get it.
And I think I moved too fast through life and I'm always looking, my, my, I feel like my expertise and my strengths are looking forward to like,
what's going to happen in consequences and always looking forward and what's next and how to, you know,
how to see the risk and liabilities of what's coming next.
And so I don't, I'm not always in the present.
And so I think that's kind of why I don't have that good memory.
But yeah, my memory from, especially was a, those were some tough years that the concussion stuff was really tough from a business person and trying to be his sister at the same time.
You know, so it was a lot to, for us all to wrap our minds around what's happening and what the future looked like and all that.
So then you dive into the Dell junior download and you co-hosting with Dale.
And we do this for a number of years and you are, you guys both are so successful and you become like this household name in the sport with your relationship with Dale and what you're doing.
And, you know, kind of the crux of some of this explanation that I want to get into as we talk about building Dirty Moe is, you know, what led you, you're, you're, you're, I know this story because you and I had a lot of conversation about it.
But I want the fans to know, I want our listeners to know, you know, you're the person behind the microphone, but you've got this growth happening.
You know, you talk about these shows that you have with Thorb upper clear and, and so on and so forth.
And you've got this growth happening. So what is perpetuating in your mind that you're thinking, oh, and I know you try to do this a many a time.
You try to have this conversation with Dale a many a time myself coming off the download.
But what finally was, you know, the, that point where you made that decision and why you stepped back.
It was a process. Yeah. Yeah.
As the co-host, because that was, that was pivotal.
I mean, you, you know, those Dale, Dale enjoyed that very much so with you.
Okay.
And it was a big decision.
It was a big decision for me.
Okay.
There's a lot to it. I know.
There's a lot to it.
Well, the short answer is it was time.
Now the, the question is, is why was it time?
What's going on in the background?
And that, that requires us to start peeling back some layers.
So, so, and I honestly, I don't, I don't know if I've actually talked about this a whole lot in terms of the, the layers that you have to peel back.
So I'll see if I can make a go at it.
You can tell me if you think I'm full of it or not.
So it was time.
Now the reason it was time is probably because you have to, you have to take this part into account.
I never really started doing this to be on the show.
Okay.
If you go back to 2013, when it was just Taylor and I, I was producing it, hosting it, editing reaction theater clip.
I was doing it all.
Why?
I didn't have anybody else to do it.
Right.
I had Taylor, who was the only professional thing we had in that operation.
I had Dustin Lee at Hammerhead was going to edit it.
But like in terms of the prep and the editing reaction theater calls, I'm just, it was not going to get off the ground.
And I was not really good.
And this is, this is a fault of mine that it's had to develop.
I was not very good at taking a vision and, and executing it or articulating it to people around me to that, to be successfully executed.
I didn't know how to do that, which is weird for a communications guy, right?
Like a communications guy ought to be able to communicate.
But I did not know how to say, Hey, here's how we're going to go execute this vision.
I just knew all I knew was just to do it all.
And I killed myself that entire first year.
I mean, like to be honest with you, we taped on Mondays and we, the race would end on Sunday.
So I would be up all night, Sunday night editing and prepping and then go in at nine o'clock in the morning to Hammerhead and then go tape the show.
I was exhausted and no sleep.
Now you talk about me leaving the download, but I actually left it.
That was the second time I left the download when Dale came on and, and I even forget this part.
I didn't actually host the download for the first year.
It was, it was when Dale took over, it was him and Tyler Overstreet and Tyler was a producer.
Again, we're a lean operation, right?
We're a small operation, right?
But Dale did ask me to come back on because again, as he's sort of finding his voice and where he is, his strengths are having, you know, the relationship that he and I had for all those years.
I think that there was, there was something there that he wanted to rely on.
Maybe it was a comfort zone, maybe whatever it is, you know, and better than I do.
So like, whatever he likes to be surrounded by, you know, his people and Tyler was one, but Tyler's also producing the show.
Yeah.
So, so I did come back.
I don't even remember what year that was, frankly.
But then, so now I'm in for the long haul and then yes.
So going back to this, my point on this was I never really was, I didn't start these things so that I could be on camera.
That's number one.
You can't miss that part because that plays into the next of it.
I don't know how many years Dale and I hosted the download together, but it, it felt like it ran its course for me.
Things that weren't things that were small felt big things that were inconsequential felt like significant consequences like things that
that maybe just they weren't a big deal, but now they're big deals because you're just not, you're not happy.
And so I think that the company growing and also all the other shows and the pressure and all that stuff all of a sudden started mounting for me.
And next thing you know, I don't look like I'm looking at Dale across the table and I'm like, I don't, I don't feel like we're having a whole lot of fun.
Right.
What's more, my strong suit is not to unpack a race and the Dell junior download had really evolved into being a real good Dell junior unpacking races.
It still is to this day.
So, so again, I just don't, I just felt like I wasn't at my strength there.
I would rather go back and build the company and run the company.
And there was a lot of things happening for us and it just was too much to try to do it all, especially for something that I wasn't really keen on doing in the first place.
And now I don't want you to mistaken that for is and I didn't enjoy being there with Dale because of course I did.
And I don't want the fan to and I don't want them either.
Right.
Listen, Dale and I are pretty tight and we that goes all the way back to 2004.
And so for us to continuously do that and evolve it, I felt something was going to change.
Eventually either Dale was going to quit or I was going to quit.
Now one of those has far more significance or consequences or implications than the other.
And so that was an easier decision for me.
It's like, okay, let me, let me stop.
Let me go focus on the company.
Let's preserve the things that we feel like are the strong suits of the show.
And let's also mix it up a little bit because again, I think you got to freshen things up again.
I mean, like you can really get into a rut in this business and and it's hard to tell.
It's really hard to tell.
It's even harder to tell when you're on the show.
Yeah.
You're not looking at it from a different angle.
Yeah.
They're different lens.
It's so much harder.
But like, you know, since then I can say I look and I can listen to the Dell junior download or watch it and give real good constructive feedback to everybody involved, including the producers and everything else going, this didn't work.
This worked.
You know why?
Because I'm able to.
I'm able to consume it more like a race fan is or like a fan of the show.
And and I think that's the way an executive producer has to be.
I don't think you can be in the middle of it and be able to have a clear head on what's going, what's not going, what needs that change, all that kind of stuff or problem solve crisis manage all those things that happen in a production of a show.
It's hard to do that when you're on the show.
Yeah.
I'm worried about advertisements.
I'm worried about all these different things.
And I just didn't think it was very healthy.
Now, do you when your business is growing?
Through all this.
So all the things that you're describing just as far as about this in particular show, you know, the download and what your experience and trying to host and then trying to run the business, but the business is growing outside of this.
And so Dirty Mo media, you know, and and so therefore this, the strategy and this vision.
Stuff that's coming together, you know, you need to be more focused on that so that because I mean, what's the what's the the adage of, you know, we need to save this amount of time and our day to day to like focus on what's, you know, forward instead of just our day to day.
And you just didn't you didn't have that for a lot of reasons because you were also continuing to be on the brand team.
You know, you're continuing to to we pull you in on junior motorsport stuff when we needed you because of your expertise, you know, on the PR side and and the way you look at situations and scenarios.
So, you know, there's a lot of different strings being pulled at you during this time.
But you know, the biggest thing to me is just not being able to.
I know from my position, leading and running the business that I don't need my hands in all the everyday day to day due to do things.
You know, you have to be looking at it from a bigger picture lens and focused on those different things and putting the people in place that you need to put in to help you get the day to day stuff done.
Why you focus on the strategy and the vision of what you're doing because it was becoming a business.
It was becoming something that you could really monetize and develop and grow.
And that was kind of where you were at that point, too, I think.
But that's something for Dale, very difficult for him to to to comprehend because he had it.
And at that point, particularly, he's a lot more involved in our business now.
But at that point in particular, you know, it wasn't involved in the business business.
So for him, it's just, you know, like you said, it's the fun, the security, the relationship, the trust that he had with you that meant so much to him.
And he didn't see all those same things that he loved that you could devote to the business and the growth of the business.
I think that's all fair.
And I'll give you another example.
So and the fans will remember this.
So when I talk about things that aren't that big a deal, feel bigger or things that are inconsequential, feel like it had bigger consequences.
I'm going to give you an example.
What the F did Cal Petty have to do with this moment where Dale and I were bickering about what happened at Pocono?
Did Denny Hamlin, Wreck, I was a Ross Chastain, I believe.
Did he touch him?
Did he not?
And next thing I know, we're in the middle of this entire debate and Dale's getting mad, getting mad.
And he's like, are you kidding me?
And then you got Matthew Dillner piling on going, what are you talking about?
Whatever.
In my head, I'm thinking, I don't even care.
I've got emails to reply.
I don't care about this.
I don't care.
Like, yeah, I think I'm right.
But I honestly, like everybody's getting mad in here.
And it's just like my head is in a different space because I mean, like there's a company to run.
And I just want to be done with this conversation so that I can go and reply or maybe you and I have a meeting that's coming up or whatever it is.
And that that's an example of kind of like what the last three years might have been like our two or three years.
And it's just like, I love what we've built on the download.
And we haven't even talked about the interviews because the interviews are another whole thing of I'm very proud of.
I'm very proud of how the conversations that have happened at the table still am.
But like in terms of it's a Dell junior table.
It's a Dell junior conversation.
It's a Dell junior show as it should be.
I've never been under such delusion as to think that I needed to have my voice in it.
And yet now I'm in arguments and I don't even want to be in them.
And so like this is just another sign that maybe it's time, right?
Like maybe it's just time.
And that's kind of that that's an example of the thought process behind going.
It's like, I think this thing needs me out of the way.
And so I like there for a while for months after of that transition and decision for you for you.
Oh man, it felt right immediately.
I do think that it took a little bit.
I don't know.
Maybe I don't know what they'll mean.
They'll never really talk about it.
Yeah, it'd be a Dell question.
I don't know what he would say to that.
There's been times when I thought like he probably took it a little personal because we did have something.
I felt like we had something special.
I thought we did have a chemistry.
I was really proud of the work we'd done.
It was always my baby, right?
Like this show has always been my baby because I started it.
I got it going.
And so every little thing I wanted to be perfect.
I wanted it to be perfect.
And if I was one of the things that were making it imperfect, then I wanted to fix it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
Right.
You know, and I always ask my host on any show to bring their best, bring the rest.
If I'm not able to do that very thing, then shame on me for trying to sit there because of was it because of my ego that I'm going to sit there.
And no, that's not fair.
Hi, y'all.
I'm Dirty Moe Rodeo's YouTube channel and podcast platforms with new episodes every Thursday.
Leave us a comment and a review and come see what this cowboy life is all about.
Hope y'all come and check us out till next time.
Adios.
It's kind of like, I mean, really, we can use this example that I just emailed you and call me this past week, this past week about the business of motor sports and and the podcast and doing it.
And like you were talking about when you're in the throw of it, you know, when I'm preparing for my interviews and I'm prepping and I'm having the discussions, you know, the discussions are the best and my most favorite part.
You know, second is seeing the feedback and all from the fans.
But when you're in here doing it and you're, you're building yourself up for the next conversation, working on the guest, you know, struggling through people's schedules and what is that going to look like and all that.
You have these thoughts that creep up like, okay, where is the importance of this show and what I'm doing and all.
And I couldn't see that through my lens of sitting here and then you and Colby provide me feedback, you know, that says, this is, you know, this is what you're good at.
This is what the people love.
This is the feedback.
Focus on this, you know, all those things.
Kind of imagine kind of summing it up from my experience.
That's kind of what I feel like you're feeling like through this process, right?
Because you get tired.
And you know what?
Even like, I mean, like, you know, you were being hard on yourself earlier when you talk about memory and all that stuff.
I wish people could just see your day.
And I'm like, see, see, I asked Mike even before I was like, because for me, what needs to come out of my memory is like sitting around reminiscing and rehashing.
I'm like, oh yeah.
Oh my God. Oh yeah.
And then, oh my God, you know, it needs to be like a four hour, have a cocktail or bring all these things out.
You know, when I'm trying to think of something very specific to something that I'm doing, it's like, oh, I don't know.
I've got so much banked in there.
Or you think about those things and you were doing this reminiscing back to how all this started, you know, just you start to be able to think about all the things that brought you here.
Right.
And I do that best when I'm doing it like that.
Yeah.
So, but the thing is, is that like, see, you make me want to talk about business and motor sports.
I do want to talk about each of our shows, but I'm going to go on business and motor sports right now because you mentioned something.
All right.
You know, the business and motor sports, we don't do a show unless it has a specific purpose.
And when we started business and motor sports with you.
But again, we, we had done a show with you with Fastlane family and I love that show by the way.
That was great.
I love that show.
I hoped you do.
I like, I don't know.
I honestly don't know if you enjoyed it.
I know that what we all learn in podcasts and I don't know if I knew it as much then is that everything kind of has a shelf life and it runs its course.
Yeah.
And I think it kind of did.
Yeah.
I mean, I love that show.
You know, what I loved about it is just bringing out the side of personalities that I got to interview of because they didn't, there's not really a place.
Now there is more on social for that to come out, but there wasn't really a place at the time for the wives and people involved in the sport to kind of tell those stories from the family aspect.
You know, what life looked like behind, how did they meet, you know, all these different things, you know, so I loved all that.
And that was our first lifestyle show.
And we can talk more about lifestyle shows and stuff that we're doing now.
But that was our very first.
But anyway, business of motor sports sole purpose was to be able to have conversations like when, you know, when we get to talk to you about business, whether it be in a meeting, whether it be in your office or whatever, you know, I feel like there's a lot of insights that come out of that.
And then, and these are conversations that I don't think Dale is even interested in having.
He's not interested in having it.
So when we started business of motor sports, it was so maybe you, it's a different guest.
It's a different type of person that is here to talk about comparing notes to, Hey, here's how we run business.
How do you run business?
Maybe there's some principles that come out.
Maybe there's something that, you know, like whatever, maybe there's not, you don't know until you've had the conversation.
There's going to be good days.
There's going to be bad days.
But that exceeded my expectations almost from the jump, jump.
Like as soon as we started doing it, like the conversations, Steve Lauletto, we had different people in here.
And, um, and you and I did that together, by the way, because I was still on the down.
Um, when the thing I say to anybody, when they're, when they're starting doing a podcast, I had this conversation with Jerome and Tiffany Davis recently.
And it's like, man, reality will, will set in.
And you realize it's hard to do this, but to have a successful podcast, it is hard.
Um, but there, if you can find gratification and fulfillment in things that otherwise you wouldn't get from the podcast, focus on that because that's what's going to carry the day.
So when, yes, you had a moment the other day and you emailed me and Colby, but me and Colby are looking at each other and I'm talking about Colby Bass, our vice president of content.
And we're like, Oh no, Kelly, no, this, this serves such a significant purpose and we love it.
We love what we got going on.
Now, if I had my way, business and motor sports would be a daily show.
If I had my way, you are not running a company at that time, you're not running all Adele Jr. stuff and all that stuff.
But that's how good it is.
Yeah.
But so, so what do we do?
57 a year.
Yeah.
Um, and it's so crazy because like this past weekend, I'm in Elk River, Minnesota.
North of Minneapolis.
Oh, right.
And I had, I probably had four or five people stop me at the off road truck race and tell me how much they love business and motor sports.
Every time.
But you know, you go back to, you get in those, those, you get in your head, you know, I'm thinking I'm going back and forth with Colby about scheduling and who can do it.
And you get in your head about, is it good enough?
Am I making it perfect?
That was a great analogy.
What am I, you know, is this going to be perfect?
I want it to be perfect.
I want it to be really good.
You know, I want it to, to carry, um, itself and the feedback that it gets and be interesting for people and all those kind of things.
So when we start, when some of the just little nuances like that of scheduling, getting the way and you're thinking about the people that can do it and who's not available and all that.
It's like, okay, is it worth it?
Like, you know, all of this that you're putting behind it, is it worth it?
And it is worth it.
And you kind of get the shows and they come out like they do.
I'll give you one more reason.
It's worth it.
And this is probably not in your mind, but it is in mine.
It's not lost on me that when, um, I hope we're creating stuff that's history making.
In other words, it's, it lives in archives.
And then one day when Wyatt has his own kids and Carson and Kennedy have theirs and Dale and Isla, Isla's an adult and Nicole's an adult.
And there's going to be access to their, to their mom and dad that you would never have.
It would not have existed unless you did the work.
And so I thought about that with, um, Samantha Bush's episode of Fastlane Family.
Yeah.
And I thought about, you know, um, in light of the events there, just wow.
One of the things that popped in my mind is like having that, you know, on tape that can retell stories that she told, you know, of all of those different things for somebody that's not here anymore and specifically for her kids.
Um, and a lot of times we don't get that stuff.
You know, I don't have a lot of that stuff from my dad.
I don't have a lot of that stuff.
Like when you think about your grandparents, things like that, you know, that's right.
And you go back to the Dale Jenner download.
I mean, the, the conversations that Dale has at the table and this goes back to the beginning.
In fact, Kyle Bush was the first real guest that we had on the download.
And that stuff is, that's history preserved right there that we can always go back and listen to that episode where Dale and Kyle had to hash out their differences.
Yeah.
And then then we, you know, got the big table and we sat down and next thing you know, you got Michael Waltrip sitting in Mike Hilton.
And, and people that were like, I'm sitting there.
I was just a fan of the sport and I thought these conversations that already happened a long time ago turns out race car drivers aren't the most communicative people.
And you know what?
They're all hard headed and they don't actually talk to each other.
So Steve Park and Michael Waltrip and all these people are talking to Dale.
20 years after the, you know, there's wounds here, right?
Kenny Schrader one.
I mean, like all these things.
So like, I felt like that there's a lot more going on than just making a podcast.
I feel the same way.
Your, your conversation with Heather Gibbs is amazing.
It was great.
It was amazing.
And I was able and, and you're going to approach that differently because you were sitting here at the table.
We, I'm just a consumer and I'm telling you it was fantastic, probably more than you even realized.
But then that's kind of the difference between sitting at the table and then being, you know, being an executive producer of a show and being part of the crew.
You know, the creation and the decision making.
You got to have a clear lens doing it.
Absolutely.
Are you signing up for daily business and motor sports?
Not daily.
Maybe daily tidbit.
Okay.
All right.
We'll keep working on it.
Daily tip.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Not daily.
All right.
So kind of back into our conversation.
So we're going through this growth mode.
You're coming off the download and you're, the business is growing.
You become an equity partner in 2022 with Dell junior and dirty man media.
And I want to focus that this from the business aspect of a lot of this, you know, you talk about your creativity and I have this and I don't want to offend anybody from this, but I have a, this is my theory.
I'm a very black and white numbers, analytical, problem solving.
Look at the risk.
What's the liabilities?
What's the consequences?
If we do this, how's it going to do all these things?
I have not, well, I have a very small creative bone in my body.
It's super tiny that they gave me.
And I think that a lot of people that, that excel in the other areas that I sell in often aren't as creative.
And then there's people like you who have like crazy creative bones and the bone they gave you for, you know, some of the numbers and, and walking through the business side and how it all makes sense.
You, you have learned like so much, but that wasn't just nestled inside of you.
That's something that you've had to work on, right?
I still wouldn't trust me with a spreadsheet.
And I don't mean that bad, but like those creative people, man, they are just, you know, I think about Shauna Robinson and she did a lot of work for me at my house and you've worked with Shauna on some things.
Man, the creative people, they just run in so many directions and they're so good at what they do and then kind of organization and different things like that sometimes aren't their strong suit.
But, you know, you became an equity partner.
You've been very, you know, engaged in the strategy and the vision of this group.
You've built an incredible group of people and employees.
It's one of the compliments that I hear in this building from people is that the talent that you have, you know, put together and you've been super good at those kind of things.
But what are some challenges that you faced when you came in in that position and how did the lens look differently, you know, coming in that position?
Yeah, that's a good question.
And I would say that the equity thing I wanted because I wanted to be able to feel the consequences of every decision.
The best analogy I have is that, you know, if I'm riding a racehorse and it's my job just to move that horse from the start line to the finish and I'm going to do whatever it is I can to do it.
I can whip it, I can do whatever it is, I can pull the reins to slow it down, I can do whatever it is it needs to do.
But if I own the horse, it's a completely different strategy.
I want, you know, now I care about how it's fed, I care about its nutrition, I care about its health, I care about after the race, everything's got to be done in a particular way because I'm playing a long game here.
And anything that goes wrong, it's really on you, right?
Good analogy.
And so I just, you know, I needed to be able, for me to run the company the way I needed to do and be ambitious enough, I had a lot of creative ideas.
But there's a discretion, and you know this all too well, but there's a discretion as an owner of a company that you apply whereas if, hey look, it ain't hard just to spend Dale's money.
Or just the money that's there.
Right.
Well, it's like, hey, if my whole strategy for Dirty Mo Media was like, hey Dale, all I need is for you to invest, you know, a couple 100000 dollars here.
And by the way, show up once a week, and this is our strategy, and it's going to be great.
Well, I'll never get him out of bed for that.
And by the way, he would be right not to show up.
That's not a good strategy.
Whereas if I have skin in the game, then I'm going to approach it with the utmost care, concern, and that's the way I felt.
And by the way, I got what I asked for because the good days are good, the bad days are bad.
I feel those days.
The decisions when you talk about hiring, I do have an awesome team.
I love my team.
When I go through a hiring process, it is a rigorous process because I don't have a lot of margin to play with on that.
We run Lean, as you know.
Which has been helpful because your process kind of helped our process overall.
I feel like.
Is that right?
Well, I do.
I feel like the process that we put in place of interviewing and then we interviewed them with people from the staff and then we have homework and things like that.
I didn't even know that.
We had four positions last week.
We just filled one.
It is an event to go through a hiring process in Dirty Mo Media.
You're going to go through stuff.
You're going to work.
You're going to do what we call do homework and assignments because we just can't miss too much.
If I did not have that equity stake, I just wouldn't care as much.
That's probably the human side, which is not a great thing to say, but it's like, you don't care about missing as much.
Now, I can't miss.
I can't miss.
I don't want to have to go to you and tell you, yeah, I got this problem.
I try to keep our problems up at Cedar Point.
That might be my answer to your question.
That's been one big change and that's what I asked for.
I wanted to be able to build the weight of decisions because I felt like that would be better for the company, the long term health of the company.
What's something that you've learned through the process of pretty much owning your own business at this point with you and Dale?
I'm curious about this from the aspect of being on the employee side to now being on the business side within the same company pretty much, right?
As you're looking at it from your ownership side, being the leader of the company and all those things versus just being an employee.
I don't know if this is a great answer, but it's the one that comes to mind.
I'm constantly trying to figure out how to be a good leader.
I read books, I read your book, I read a lot of leadership books, and I've developed philosophies in what it takes to be a leader, right?
By the way, I don't know that there was a better example than Mr. Hendrick, how he would teach us about leadership, right?
I refer to him all the time, me too.
Show up, show up with your game face on, show up on time, those kind of things.
It seems so simple and practical, but they're right.
I've learned that the management of people is harder than it looks on the surface because everybody kind of comes to you from a different lens with a different, you know, different.
The one thing I will say about our company, and I'm proud of this, is that we've built a team of ambitious people.
This is not a knock on Dale.
When I say this, they're not there for Dale.
They're there because of Dirty Mo Media.
We have a team that want to climb in their career.
They're there for a reason.
They're good at what they do.
They want to show up at work, and it's not just because of Dale.
If it was, look, anytime you get behind the curtain, it's probably not as great as you think it is.
The management of people, that's always a learning process.
You even said it when you and Jeff Gluck were talking about, and he asked you about that.
It's every day.
It's every day.
Relationships, communication, I don't think we've ever perfected it.
There's a lot of people when you have different agendas.
Influences in the world change that for people on a daily basis.
Of course.
That's what you've got to stay in tune to.
What's going on?
What are people dealing with, feeling, seeing?
How are they shaping their thoughts based off of what's going on in the world?
Every which way.
My biggest challenge to go back to your original question on this was,
I'm constantly trying to really define and educate people on what Dirty Mo Media even is.
And you would think that that's not that big a deal.
It actually becomes the source about all of my problems,
as if misidentification or misunderstood on what we are or what our purpose in the world is.
And if it differs from what I think it is, then that's where a lot of misalignment comes.
We clearly had a lot to talk about and there's no way that we could fit this entire conversation into one episode.
So we're going to leave it right here for today.
But you can come back next week for part two of my conversation with Mike Davis.
We'll continue to talk about the growth of Dirty Mo Media,
the risk behind some of their big decisions and what Mike believes is coming next.
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About this episode
“Welcome to the business of motor sports.” Mike Davis (Dirty Mo Media) joins to explain why he stepped away from The Dale Jr. Download. They revisit his NASCAR start—“2002 was my first year in NASCAR”—and early Dale Earnhardt Jr. moments, then zoom out to the behind-the-scenes PR and media strategy. Davis describes mounting pressure as the company and show grew, saying, “I would rather go back and build the company and run the company.” The conversation also covers how the show evolved, including fan-first formats and direct-to-fan injury updates.
Original notes
Mike Davis didn't set out to run a media company – he set out to help tell Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s story. Today, he's President of Dirty Mo Media, leading a company that's grown from a single podcast into a full network of shows, live events, and branded content across NASCAR, motorsports and new verticals outside of the racing world.
In Part 1, Kelley Earnhardt Miller takes Mike back to the beginning: becoming Dale Jr.'s publicist during the Budweiser years, helping navigate the historic departure from DEI, and launching the original Dale Jr. Download with no business plan – just an instinct that NASCAR fans wanted more Dale Jr. content.
That instinct turned into Dirty Mo Media. As the company grew beyond one show, Mike made the call to move from behind the mic as co-host of the Download to behind the scenes – becoming President and eventually an equity partner, focused on building the infrastructure, team, and strategy behind DMM's expansion.
This is the story of how one NASCAR podcast became a media company, and the partnership that made it possible.
Part 2 drops next week, where Mike and Kelley go deeper on what DMM looks like today and where it's headed next
Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia
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The Dale Jr. Download
Dirty Mo Media, SiriusXM
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60:51