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Miller on EV Profitability, Toma on AI-Hesitancy, Growden on Dealer Waste | Daily Dealer Live
Miller on EV Profitability, Toma on AI-Hesitancy, Growden on Dealer Waste | Daily Dealer Live
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About this episode
The episode dives into the evolving landscape of the automotive industry, focusing on electric vehicle (EV) profitability, AI adoption, and dealer inefficiencies. Guests Eric Miller discusses the profitability of EVs, countering the belief that they are unprofitable, while Monique Pamech highlights the growing acceptance of AI in dealerships for customer interactions. Matthew Groudy emphasizes the importance of accurate conversion tracking in digital marketing. The conversation reveals insights on adapting to market changes and leveraging technology to enhance dealership operations.
Topics:
ev profitability
ai adoption
dealer inefficiencies
conversion tracking
digital marketing
customer interactions
inventory management
sales strategies
Today's show features:
Eric Miller, Director at Morrie's Auto Group
Monik Pamecha, CEO of Toma
Mathew Growden, Consultant
This episode is brought to you by:
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Car Dealership Guy is back with our second annual NADA Party—happening in Las Vegas on Thursday, February 5th. It’s the hottest ticket at NADA 2026. Spots are limited and unfortunately we can't invite everyone —so RSVP today at https://carguymedia.com/cdglive and we hope to see you in Vegas!
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Car
Hyundai Genesis
"...rida buying Palm Beach Acura along with a Hyundai Genesis store in West Palm Beach from Napleton Auto Group..."
Car
Ford Mustang
"...s 2015 to 2019 lineup. From super-duty pickups to Mustangs and Lincoln SUVs, the issue this time stems from ..."
Car
Cadillac Lyric
"...baked in, right? If I can have a $75,000 Cadillac Lyric, I'll use that example,"
Car
Chevrolet Bolts Chevrolet
"We did from January until probably last month, a lot of bolts, Chevrolet bolts that were by them. Interesting."
Car
Toyota Corolla
"... whatever it is. I mean, you're looking at Toyota Corollas that are basic in equipment with 110,000 miles"
Car
Toyota RAV4
"...ing, you know, the mythical three-year-old Toyota RAV4 with low miles that everybody wants"
Select text to request an explanation
We're doing better as a result of social media presence, and it doesn't do those three things
then it's on the chopping block.
It's in return on investment discussion.
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of The Daily Dealer Live.
I'm your host, Sam Darkin.
Back with me today again is Yuli D.
What's up, guys?
Welcome back.
Thanks.
It's good to have you back on this Wednesday in September, and for those joining our live
stream, as always, we're live across all CDG social media platforms.
Post those comments.
We'll bring them into today's show truly.
Your comments, your feedback, your interaction help make today's show even eliter or
more elite.
It'll be awesome.
And what do we have coming up for you, our Daily Dealer Live audience?
Well, on this Wednesday, the Cardiola ship guy himself, Yosi made a post, and he said,
you know what, more Cardiola's would sell EVs if only EVs were profitable.
Well, we've got one G, we've got one dealer from the Midwest that says, uh-uh, not
so fast.
Profitable it is.
We'll have him on in just a moment, plus Toma joins on AI hesitancy, and then
Groudon.
Yes, there's more to that on dealer waste.
Before we get into that, let's dive into today's biggest headlines.
First up on this Wednesday, Volkswagen is going all in on get it AI intelligence, artificial
intelligence.
They're pledging $1.2 billion by 2030 to bake AI into just about every corner of its business.
Get ready for this.
Buckle up, no pun intended.
The automaker already runs more than 1200 AI applications with hundreds more in the
pipeline.
Now it's doubling down.
Think AI-powered engineering tools that let its designers run virtual tests, and a factory
cloud linking more than 40 plants where new AI processes get plugged directly into production.
Board member Hauch stars summed it up by saying AI will be the backbone of how they want
to design, build, and sell cars going forward.
The bet comes as VW faces big pressure to boost margins and speed up time to market.
If the strategy works, AI could be the lever that makes the company leaner, faster, and
tougher to compete with.
Maybe there's a good AI fuel economy bought too soon.
Next up today, get this, car buyers came rushing in in August trying to close deals
before tariffs hit, and federal EV tax credits disappear at the end of September.
We're seeing a big rush in our auto group to scoop up those EVs with credits available.
On paper, the buying process looks better.
CDK Global's Ease of Purchase score in August went up.
It ticked up to 89%, that's a huge improvement from just a couple months ago, but beneath
the surface inventory was thinning out.
Only 43% of buyers were able to drive a car straight off the lot.
That's an astounding stat, 43% of buyers drove off the lot, 29% had to buy something
in transit or in production.
That's astounding.
With fewer cars available on dealer lots, two of the biggest parts of the car buying
experience got worse in August.
Test drives and vehicle delivery.
For dealers, that's a trade-off.
Urgency, easier negotiations and better credit availability are helping clear out
old inventory now, but the experience is under strain.
And how that plays out once incentives vanish and new model pricing kicks in
will be the real test.
That's astounding, 43% drove off the lot and 30% was we'll see you later when
that vehicle actually hits.
Interesting, right?
Crazy to think about.
Next up today, buy-seller tracker alert.
Remember the CDG buy-sell tracker.
Go there for all your updates and daily news on M&A, mergers and acquisitions.
So, hey, I love it.
We got it.
Yossi promised it last episode and it's real.
Wait, you got to hear that again.
Let's do it if it's possible.
Oh, that makes me happy.
I love it.
We have our jingle.
Lithiumotors just planted its flag deeper in South Florida buying Palm Beach
Acura along with a Hyundai Genesis store in West Palm Beach from Napleton Auto Group.
They're a Chicagoland based auto group that I'm familiar with.
Lithia CEO Brian DeBoer says the move builds density for at least
Lithia's omnichannel model while adding luxury and import brands
that fit neatly into the group's long-term growth playbook.
And South Florida isn't just any market.
It's one of the wealthiest in the country.
And that means these rooftops are high-margin assets in a region
where clustering brands can create serious cost and marketing advantages.
Much luck to Lithia as they continue to gobble up stores,
including in Florida, a state I love.
I love the sunshine there.
So, next up today is a headline that we've been hearing a lot of lately.
Ford is back in the headlines with another massive recall.
This time nearly, get this, 1.5 million vehicles across its 2015 to 2019 lineup.
From super-duty pickups to Mustangs and Lincoln SUVs,
the issue this time stems from rear-view cameras,
which we've seen that before this year,
that can distort, flip, or go completely blank.
Uh-oh.
Federal regulators say Ford already knows of 18 accidents tied to the faulty cameras,
though no injuries have been reported and dealers will replace the cameras free of charge.
So that's service business for Ford dealers.
But the bigger picture is tough to ignore.
Ford has now topped 8 million recalled vehicles this year,
and we're not done with the year yet.
More than 100 separate actions.
This is averaging more than, get this, one recall in every two days.
Wow.
That's crazy.
That is crazy.
And that's a wrap on today's industry news.
So, Yuli, just a quick look back.
We're on episode 51-52, somewhere in that ballpark.
53.
53.
Today's episode 53.
We broke the 50.
I recently spoke at an Experian gig,
and they asked a good question I hadn't thought about.
I want your answer.
They said, Sam, what's your favorite episode?
Because I always talk about how much I learned just being on here.
And I was like, yeah, that's a great question.
So here's my three top favorites.
Roarman, I love Ryan Roarman coming on and sharing his tech stack.
Not because he shared what they do,
but because he's so blasted knowledgeable on how
that tech stack's put together and forward thinking on it.
I really appreciated from Infinity and Nissan,
Vinay and Tiago coming on and speaking very candidly
about their challenge and their struggle to overcome
some of the adversity facing Nissan and Infinity
and their path forward.
I really like Dennis Gingrich coming on.
Dennis and Toley doing his variable fixed ops.
And then a shocker to me.
We had a VC guest last week, Steve Greenfield,
that also kind of broke down some of the myths in all things
AI, really liked his episode.
What's your favorite?
All right, not offending any of my friends
and personal friends that have been on the show, right?
But I'd have to agree.
So my number one is probably Roarman,
because we always talk about the relentless execution
of the basics.
And there's nuance, right?
We all do the same thing, but a little different.
And this is a 20 group.
It's an evolving thing.
But to see just that deep dive into a massive area in our space,
that's like, there's so much more that we
need to dig into there.
It was just really eye-opening.
Yeah.
In fact, I don't want to tease it too much.
But we're working on two roundtables.
One is automotive AI cage match.
And the idea is let's bring AI experts
from around the industry together.
And just help us figure out what the heck is going on.
The other thing we're working on is finance manager roundtable.
That could be coming up here over the next couple of weeks.
I master class, if you will.
Yes.
Yes.
And then an OEM.
Hey, my OEM is the best OEM in all of automotive.
So three of those, if you have any interest
in joining us on the AI automotive cage match,
reach out to myself.
You can DM me.
You can also reach out to Michelle.
Or if you want to join the finance director roundtable
potentially here in the next couple of weeks,
reach out as well.
We'd love to have you on board.
And speaking of that, Yuli, we get a ton of requests
from auto dealers across the nation to join the show.
We've got one place to go for that.
cdgguest.com to fill out the intake.
You'll meet Michelle, speaking of Michelle.
She is our scheduler extraordinaire.
She'll hear your story, hear your viewpoint,
and invite you to come on.
We look forward to hearing your perspectives.
And then let's talk NADA, car dealership guys,
back with our second annual NADA party happening
in Las Vegas on Thursday, February 5th.
That is the hottest ticket at NADA 2026.
We'll have a special guest and top automotive personalities
to be considered for a formal invite.
Just hit the link in the show notes, request to join,
and fill out the question there.
We can't accommodate everybody,
but it is one of the coolest parties.
Having been last year, what astounded me
about the crowd at cdg is you've got really forward
thinking folks in all of automotive.
I would argue, you look at the different parties out there,
you look at, I don't even want to throw shade at anybody else,
but you think about all the other gatherings
that go on at NADA.
I defy anyone to find the future of automotive
better than what sits at the cdg party.
So I rotated around that party and just talked to people
and tried to understand their viewpoints.
I learned a ton in that one moment.
Dan C says online, thanks guys for keeping up
with the ongoing challenges related to the Ford recall list.
We're committed to bringing that to you.
And by the way, we love Ford.
So no shade on Ford.
We're just trying to figure out what's going on
and we're trying to report the news as it happens
and as we see it.
So don't stop quoting, don't stop posting
to social media throughout today's show.
And with that, let's go straight into today's first guest.
Up first today, Eric Miller,
director at Maury's Automotive Group.
Eric, welcome to the show.
Welcome.
Thank you.
So Eric, you're here because you answered a post,
but before we go into your post,
let's ask with our banner question, how's biz?
And as part of your answer,
just share a little bit about yourself
in the auto group where you're located.
Sure.
I'm the director of pre-owned inventory
for Maury's Automotive.
Generally speaking, Minneapolis market,
although has expanded into Wisconsin, Illinois
and Michigan, as a luxury campus,
we have a couple of different brands,
Cadillac being kind of the anchor.
And since we're talking about EVs,
Cadillac has done pretty well with EVs.
I've been in the industry 33 years
or this is my 33rd year
and I've worn kind of every hat.
So my experience is broad
and I bring that to the table.
Okay.
So you read Yossi's post,
which basically said, hey, more dealers would sell EVs.
Oh, wait, but wait, how's business at Maury's?
First of all, I blew past that.
Business is good.
It's stable and some segments growing.
It has some tough parts.
Acquiring inventory has been really challenging
this whole year, but generally speaking,
whatever we fear is going to happen,
hasn't happened yet.
We're shoring it up and performing well.
Sam, that's another one of the good column, FYI.
I know you have your tracker over there.
Yeah, yeah, we do have the tracker.
We do have the tracker, so thank you for that.
All right, so you answered the post.
Yossi said, hey, you know what,
more dealers would do business in EVs
if these EVs were profitable,
the illusion being that they're not.
But you said, wait, they are profitable.
What are most dealers missing today, Eric,
about profitability in the EV space?
That causes them to not see that opportunity.
You're the number one Cadillac EV dealer
in the north central region, west of the lake.
You've sold 60 plus new and used a couple times
this year so far.
What do most dealers miss about EVs, Eric?
I think in general, there's the perception
that the public isn't ready
or that somebody is forcing the EV movement,
but it is kind of an internal monologue
that derails looking at it as an opportunity.
If you think something is not gonna sell,
I think that self perpetuates.
Yeah, it doesn't sell, right, yeah.
As an industry, you have a pretty green sales staff.
I mean, I don't think that my store, my campus,
my dealer group or even our region are alone in that.
I mean, the statistics bear it out.
Many of them have not sold automobiles
pre-COVID and there's quite a bit of disconnect
when it comes to how do we become an information source
to our guests as opposed to just being order takers.
That dialogue occurred during COVID.
We knew this was gonna happen, right?
We knew this was not the way it was gonna be forever.
We lost a lot of institutional knowledge,
a lot of people who knew what they were doing
had experienced selling cars.
And there's the opportunity, right?
If we can go back to the basics and execute,
learn what our clients' needs are,
so doing a good needs analysis would be
kind of the start of that
and not force somebody into what we think
or what we believe, but truly listen to them
and give them options.
Within the store, every store, every brand
is going to be different.
There's gonna be different demographics.
There's gonna be different markets.
But in general, if they are coming into the showroom
curious about EVs or open to the idea
and believe me, some aren't, right?
But if they're open to the idea,
they expect the person that they bump into
and often it is, right?
It's random to be knowledgeable,
be able to answer their questions.
There's a big disconnect when you walk into showroom
that you're unfamiliar with.
And so the side note is the Cadillac is nearly 80%
new to the brand of people coming into the showroom
or at least buying in the showroom.
So they don't have people that they know like and trust.
They are bumping into somebody random
and asking questions.
But they're prepared.
They know a lot of those answers.
And when they're not met with the same knowledge
and care and empathy, they disconnect and walk away.
So...
So part of what you're saying is part of the equation
is better education, better belief on the sales floor.
100%.
Better education for the consumer.
And a sales team that not only is ready
to entertain those questions,
but has a belief level that it's a good option
for the consumer.
So the clock is counting down.
Federal rebates end the end of this month.
That's about 20 days away.
What's your prediction that happens
on the backside of that?
Does demand fall off and the market collapse
in some dramatic fashion?
Or is there some sort of a new norm
that is just short of today's current production
or somewhere in between?
Somewhere in between is a safe bet, right?
I think we're not gonna see a collapse,
at least long-term.
I believe that we're gonna see a downturn
as people kind of wait out what the new norm looks like.
You're gonna see manufacturers scramble
to kind of fill the void.
Again, General Motors, which is our anchor,
at least in my purview, has done that before.
Now there was a time where Cadillac kind of fell off
the $7,500 credit eligibility
as they moved production around.
And in that time stepped up
with what they called the LTM Promise,
which was a $7,500 rebate.
Will they do something like that temporarily
or even kind of within a short-term strategy?
Don't know for sure.
They'll need to, right?
The public is kind of expecting that this gets met.
But this isn't new.
This isn't even about EVs necessarily.
This has happened over and over cyclically
for the 30 years I've been in the business.
This has happened before.
So whether it is fuel economy
or whether it is some other regulatory pressure
that the manufacturers to do what they do
or react to what they do, this isn't new.
So the manufacturer is pretty well equipped to handle it.
Well, let's go into a little bit of a lightning round
and just kind of understand your operation
and how it is at the end of the day profitable.
So let's talk first up, buying those used EVs.
So you're in charge of that acquisition,
I would assume, as part of your role.
What's your best source for buying used EVs?
What's your strategy on finding and appraising?
And, you know, are there any landmines in there
and used car acquisition in EVs that you're avoiding?
Absolutely.
The landmine for, you know, so far in 2025
has been vehicles that are just slightly over
the cutoff point for the federal EV tax credit.
Yeah.
Yeah, but wait, that proves,
yeah, but that proves that the federal tax credit
is boing up the market in a way that's unhealthy, yeah?
Well, I don't know about unhealthy,
but it's certainly people aren't dumb
if they can buy a car and land them net at 21
that was 25 versus find the same car
with 10,000 fewer miles and it's 26,
they'll step around it to find the car
that does get them to 25, which means it's 21.
So this is just opportunity.
I wouldn't even say that people are motivated by that.
Yeah.
But they're not dumb either.
When it goes away, that segment, 25, 26, 27,000 dollars,
I think heats up again.
But for now, that has been the landmine
that you'd want to avoid as a buyer.
That car will turn slowly.
So have you altered your buying strategy for 60 and 90 days
to accommodate the elimination of the rebates
and what are you doing for that?
Are you picking up those vehicles
that previously didn't qualify at a higher clip
or what's your new strategy once the rebates disappear?
We have done a good job in the middle,
meaning it's not vehicles that qualify
for the federal tax credit on the used car basis,
meaning 25 and under, we've done a good job
where say GM company cars,
if they already reflect the very best stack of incentives,
including the federal tax credit,
the used car market has to have that baked in, right?
If I can have a $75,000 Cadillac Lyric,
I'll use that example,
because that's kind of what we do.
If I can walk into a showroom
and buy one that was a courtesy vehicle
and I get Costco and I get Conquest
and I am eligible for the 7,500,
and I can stack all that and be $15,000 off,
all of a sudden the real transaction price
of that car is 55,
but not everybody will qualify for all those incentives.
So if I can pick up a GM company car
with two, three, 8,000 miles on it,
offer it a certified pre-owned and come in at 48,
I now have a compelling story to tell the people
who don't qualify,
which believe me, a lot of our customers
are over a $100,000 income catchment.
That's a place that we wanna live in can compete.
Some people are gonna lease EVs
because that $7,500 impact really squeezes
well into a two or three-year period to lower payments,
but again, that's not for everybody.
So it's kind of finding products
that complement each other
without just undercutting new car sales.
So what does Average Recon look like in your group
on an EV?
Well, on EVs, it's a little bit different.
We can count on a little bit lower reconditioning cost.
It's not as likely that they're gonna need breaks
for an example.
We're not doing an oil change as they come in.
So tires, they're gonna chew through them.
We kind of set aside for that,
but usually when we're acquiring vehicles,
we know what the tire measurement support
when we bought them.
Missing EV SE chargers,
photographs of the vehicles that really don't show
in the compartments where those EV SE chargers may be
can be a gotcha.
They can be several hundred dollars.
We did from January until probably last month,
a lot of bolts, Chevrolet bolts that were by them.
Interesting.
They got new batteries.
They had 12 month, 12,000 mile repurchase,
but those vehicles had been sitting in GM holding yards
for two and three years.
So we counted on, we have to put tires on these.
We have to put a 12-volt battery.
We need to do wiper blades.
There's gonna be other things that,
just degradation of time and sitting.
So even if they measured 732nd tread depth,
they showed up, they'd have date codes of 2018.
We needed to replace the tires.
We did dozens of them,
like near 100, and this is the topic of conversation.
Those vehicles had a higher margin for us
after reconditioning than any other used vehicle type
so far in 2025.
Interesting.
And what do you attribute that to?
Was it your ability to buy them right
from the correct source?
Was it your discipline in cost of recon?
Was it strong resell value?
Like where is the gain there relative to your ICE?
Well, I mean, that's an interesting question.
I think the answer kind of lies in,
if I'm out shopping for a 12 to $15,000 vehicle
for my needs for a college kid and whatever it is.
I mean, you're looking at Toyota Corollas
that are basic in equipment with 110,000 miles
that are rusty and kind of worn out.
And that's what we always expected.
That segment has gotten very expensive, right?
The affordable segment has gone away.
So I should believe both at that moment,
forget the EV part, right?
We're talking about cars that had 20, 30, 40,000 miles
because they paused in time for two or three years.
They have a warranty on their battery
that was eight years and 100,000
from the day it got its new battery
that have a lot of clocks reset
during our reconditioning process, right?
They have brand new tires, they've got,
everything is good to go
and have a one year warranty from General Motors.
And we could retail them net of the tax credit
for eight to $15,000.
And it was a segment that nobody else
really exploited in our market.
So I'll call it luck, right?
But it was identifying that segment.
You found that opportunity though
and that's part of what makes automotive great.
We found and defined the opportunity,
the difficulty when it started in January was
at any given day that you went into GM,
you know, fleet pool and started looking
there'd be 1200 volts.
So I'd sit down, you know, my staff famously knows this.
Sunday morning, I would get up earlier than my family,
go through that thousand bill to spreadsheet,
determine what they needed
and what their price points were,
identify 40 and, you know, buy 10.
And we would just do that, you know, every week.
So part of your success is identifying where those are
and acquiring them from unique and interesting sources.
Outside of GM and the special factory stuff,
are there any other sources
for those EVs particular auctions
or is a service drive where you're having success
acquiring those at a level where you can turn a profit?
Yes, and the answer is yes, all of those, right?
So we bought them from Mannheim and OVE,
we bought them from ACV, we bought them from the lane.
We do have, you know, buying center that buys them
like a Carvana acquiring them from the public
just in general broadly.
There were a lot of people
and there are a lot of people who own EVs
that are tech savvy, that are, you know,
all about speed and convenience.
So they are open to just selling their vehicle
and then making their next move.
Even if there is a sales tax component to that decision,
they want to be in control of that process.
There's a trend.
We were buying plenty of EVs
and the answer is because nobody else really wanted them
or was scared of them, right?
Or understood them.
Yeah, they didn't understand.
All the above, they kind of thought
it was catching a falling knife.
I mean, Tesla is a really good example.
Ooh, that's good.
My theory was turn them quick, you know,
get them in, price them below market.
And obviously we have the tools as an industry
to define what that looks like
and get off of them fast
because there were more opportunities.
It wasn't the same as going out and buying, you know,
the mythical three-year-old Toyota RAV4
with low miles that everybody wants
and we have to compete against to buy.
You know, I spent the morning at auction
before getting here and, you know,
we're $3,000 and $4,000 over MMR
for the segments in which dealers like me compete against.
So finding an area where the competition
really hasn't focused actually gave us a leg up
and increased our profit potentials.
And as long as we were smart about it,
we turned them quicker and for more money.
So do you think part of,
I want to go into F&I and again,
kind of a speed lightning round piece
because we don't want to run out of time.
We've got so many questions for you.
Do you think part of your success
has to do with the state you're in
where the state from a political environment
is a little forward thinking on EVs there.
Some manufacturers were only distributing EVs
only in Minnesota, right?
Whereas some other states are farther behind.
So maybe you're on that leading edge
and maybe you're sharing with our audience
something that will be a tool, a tip, a trick
over the next 30, 60, 90 days to capitalize on this market.
How much do you think geography plays into your success?
I think it's an easy harbinger.
I mean, I think it's easy to look at that and say.
It's different here, right?
I think the proof is a little bit in the pudding, right?
We are not the only, for example,
Cadillac dealership in Minnesota.
So why are we out performing
all the other Cadillac dealerships
so that are in the same market selling the same vehicles?
You've got a strategy.
I believe the answer is strategy, training, education,
ease of transaction.
We're meeting customers where they want to be.
Now, we are a one price strategy dealer group.
Our store is there as well.
And we think that does play a big role.
I mean, a very big role in
kind of derailing or letting people bring their guard down
and dive into the actual needs analysis
and listen to us rather than having your defense.
It's not about negotiating a price.
It's about understanding the value of the car,
which is part of your value proposition.
All right, let's walk us through.
Walk, let's just walk through
a few other departments before we lose you here
because we were getting a ton of comments out there.
For example, Lauren Klein says,
you can't have one or two EV specialists.
They all have to be well versed in it.
That's right, truth.
And there's, dealers have to invest in EV
and their people will, in their people to push it.
And then there's a few comments out there
that just say, EVs are dead,
which I gotta tell you, Eric,
I kind of resonate with what you're saying.
I think, we have been predicting for a long time
the crash in the used vehicle market.
It never materialized, even coming into COVID,
coming through COVID, coming out of COVID.
And I just feel, why do I feel like,
as it relates to EVs,
everybody's sick and tired of hearing of them.
I certainly am as well.
That the true market demand isn't off a cliff,
but it's somewhere short of
and things will normalize as rebates disappear,
but it's not gonna be complete death.
It'll be finding those opportunities.
All right, so take us into finance.
FNI, what FNI products are available in your world
on the EV side?
And what are you averaging per EV sold?
Sure, well, every product is available,
but it changes what it looks like, right?
So Tire and Wheel works very well.
Really everything does.
Maintenance doesn't, you can't do oil changes.
Prepaid maintenance is a challenge
because there is less maintenance,
but the importance of having that vehicle visit
the dealership again in a year and two years
is maybe more critical, right?
So how do you tie that customer back
to your service department?
If not for an oil change?
Yeah, looking at the product, looking at pricing
and just keep hitting the accelerator pedal
until something works that is compelling to bring them
back in.
And I do think that there is again, building value.
If you talk about why they need to come back
and get a tire rotation for an example, right?
Because EVs are gonna need them as well as any other vehicle
and let a factory train technician get underneath
and take a look under warranty
so that if something is developing,
we can take care of it is still as compelling
an argument for an EV as it is for a gas or a diesel.
Eric, who are you?
What branded service contractor
are you selling in the finance department
on your EV products?
In our world, we use CNA.
They do an incredible job.
United Car Care is also another provider
that we use in our world on used EVs.
What does Mori's use?
We have our own company, right?
So, you know, that's our own risk pool.
And believe me, it's a challenge.
I don't think that that's something that, you know,
is as defined or developed as it needs to be.
We also, with Cadillac have, you know,
General Motors, G&PP, and it is a challenge.
Believe me, we're not gonna see the penetration
at the same dollars that we saw.
But the area of opportunity for the rest of the products
and for the rest of the financial picture is there.
But believe me, when you talk about PVRs
and you talk about financial opportunities
for your FNI department, there's a pain point there.
There's friction for them,
especially if they're gauged
on the penetration of some of these products.
It is a challenge.
You just have to look at it as an operator and say,
you know, I have to develop gross dollars
that need to filter to the bottom line
and where is that happening?
So, before we let you go,
one last area to talk about, right?
You couldn't sell EVs into the marketplace
if you didn't have a good lead generation program in place.
So, you're buying these vehicles right,
you're servicing them right,
you're offering FNI products
that make sense in your world.
What is your best strategy as it relates
to marketing these vehicles?
Is there a particular digital lead provider that you're using?
Is there a particular approach to get the word out
about mores and the products that are available through you?
And the answer is it works no differently.
So, all the same lead providers
that work well for us in new vehicles,
in pre-owned vehicles,
work exactly the same whether it's an EV.
I mean, look, these are the same cars,
the propulsion system is different.
So, if we can build, you know, the old adage,
build value until it's greater than price,
if it works for people, people will buy it.
And this has been the case forever.
You know, dealers feel they can't sell
something profitably, whatever it is, a diesel,
a, you know, model that isn't as hot,
you've defined for yourself that you can't.
The last piece that I'll mention is, you know,
when I answered that,
we're talking about profitability at the top line,
but there's a whole lot more to it
and manufacturers proficiency programs
play a really big role.
I mean, this is a chess game.
So determining can I sell this type of vehicle
because the manufacturer finds it to be important
and maybe earn some hard to get product.
And some of it isn't black and white
and one-to-one and really trackable,
but manufacturers are our partners.
And so we need to kind of, you know,
listen to their drumbeat and get on board
and maximize our internal pay plan, right?
And that's some of those proficiency programs.
So the interesting point here, Eric,
about what you're talking about there is manufacturers
overproduced, you could argue some of the EVs
in anticipation of federal regulation
and government programs,
which pushed it and created rebates
and was making requirements.
So manufacturers put incentives
and did asks inventory for trades and all that
so that they didn't have a ton of the stuff sitting around.
What will be fascinating?
We want you back on the show in a year
to see whether it's proved out or not.
As those federal rebates pop away,
what is the real market demand for that inventory?
And yes, you've found great opportunity
between the lines of federal rebates and demand
and people that don't understand that market
you've capitalized.
When all that's gone, where will be the new opportunity?
And as someone in a state that's very forward-thinking
in the EV space and you've outpunted the market clearly
with your sales leading in multiple areas,
props to you, props to the entire Mori organization
for your results, your accomplishments.
Hopefully everyone has learned a few things I have.
Thank you, including how to find those opportunities.
So Eric Miller, director at Mori's Auto Group,
we appreciate you being on the show
and sharing your perspectives on all things EV
and thanks for posting, Eric, thank you.
Thanks, Eric.
Thanks for having me.
The clock is ticking, Yuli.
The clock is ticking.
We've got just 20 some odd days left
and EV rebates support will be gone
and then it will be fascinating to see
what that market looks like.
I do think the demand will be greater than some think
and it won't be as much as others.
Well, he said it.
We're gonna lose federal EV support,
but there's gonna be some type of support out there.
It's gonna come from the manufacturer
if they wanna get rid of those costs.
Yeah, yeah, but manufacturer support
only comes as a consequence of overproduction
and a lot of manufacturers in advance
of this rebate cutoff have stopped production, period.
So it'll be interesting to see where that middle is.
There may not be as much OEM support as we think.
All right, let's talk dealer pay.
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and customer retention.
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or you can click the QR code in the corner
to learn more about dealer pay
and the services that they offer.
We've got a fantastic industry spotlight episode out there
featuring dealer play and talking about surcharging.
So if you wanna learn more about that approach to it
props to dealer pay
for supporting the content on today's show.
Thank you.
All right, let's jump to our next guest.
And actually this is a fascinating conversation
when we think about things that are up and coming
things that have been
and where you find opportunity between those lines.
Welcome to the show CEO of Tomah,
Monique Pamech.
Oh no, I ruined the name.
Monique.
Will you tell me how to pronounce your last name,
Monique, I apologize.
Yeah, it's Pomecha.
And I think it happened to you as well last time
when we were speaking.
Thank goodness.
Flashback.
Thank goodness.
Well, Monique, will you write out the gate,
just tell us how biz is from your perspective
and then tell us a little bit
about who you are and what you do.
Yeah, so I am the founder and CEO of Tomah
and we build AI agents for our dealerships,
the automated communication over voice and text
that is inbound and outbound.
So that's what we do.
You know, how is biz?
Biz has been really, really busy.
That's what biz has been,
I think since our last appearance on the show,
actually, this is in June sometime, I think.
I think I have like three updates, really big ones.
One is, you know, we've gotten so much adoption
from, you know, the smallest groups
to the largest public groups.
And it's been a little surprising
because I initially thought like when we were even
building the product and talking to our customers,
that they probably want to like pilot it
and they want to like slowly roll it out.
But it seems like there seems to be a trend in place
where dealers are going for it.
They want to get all the stores at once.
And it seems like there is this growing confidence
in the technology itself.
And I think maybe it's because of,
there's a cultural shift, right?
Like if you call the pharmacy,
you call the hospital,
like you're getting the agents everywhere.
So there's this growing level of comfort,
you know, with the consumers by default,
you know, like everybody expects that to be the case.
So I think that may, you know, that's a source of confidence.
Then the second thing is,
which I think is a little surprising as well.
We built the product thinking that people, you know,
it's for people who don't want to have anything
to do with AI, for example, right?
I don't want to touch it.
I don't want to see it let it do its thing.
It turns out there is this class of employees
we're seeing within the dealership
who are really savvy.
So, you know, I'm sure there are people
who don't want to touch it and change it,
but then there are these employees who are like,
what did your support?
Like when I requested this change, they did something.
Can you give me access to make that change myself?
And then they, you know, we actually built this feature
and don't really is like, you know, savvy user
and you turn it on for them
and then they can basically see the full products
so they can make changes to these AI agents,
how they talk, what they sound like.
And they're like building these new use cases
that we didn't think were possible
because they have a knowledge, you know, of the workflow.
So it is very interesting to see that
and we've seen more and more of that over time.
So I think that was a little surprising
and we started building around that
and it's natural that people who are doing that,
their agents and, you know,
their dealerships actually just perform better.
So maybe, you know, I think the last time
the conversation was like,
oh, is they are gonna take jobs?
Like we're definitely seeing this creation
of a new type of a job within the dealership.
Like this one person that everybody goes to
to talk about, hey, this new thing came out
like you think we should use it
and they'll be like, here, give it to me.
And then they like make some changes
and it kind of works.
So tell us from your perspective, it's interesting.
Automotive I think has been a very slow adopter
of certain technology and AI is one of those, you know,
we've interviewed a bunch of dealers on this show
and some dealers have leaned into it
in BDC and other areas.
Others have said, look, we don't fully understand it yet.
We don't fully trust it yet.
And so we're still very much doing
a lot of those operations manually.
You're saying you're seeing a difference
that that tide has shifted.
What do you attribute that change to
and why is that happening right now
when automotive was slow to adopt initially?
I think, I don't know.
I never felt that way because the reason
we were actually in healthcare and banking
when we started the company,
we pivoted-
Healthcare might be slower, yeah.
We pivoted to auto because we obviously thought dealers
were more, you know, for lack of better word,
risk-taking, I think, because they want the reward, right?
I think it continues to be the case.
But as I mentioned, the first point
was still the cultural aspect
that it's just happening all around you
so you cannot ignore it.
And the second thing is like you're seeing it work.
Like if you talk to five people,
there are probably two people who say,
oh, this changed my life.
You know, in some ways or the other.
So let me ask you another question.
You specialize in the voice AI,
which I think is fascinating, right?
Everybody that's ever called up an 800 number
like an airline got stuck on the voice AI.
The older version is awful.
And you can't press zero as much
and as often as you need to to get out of it.
The new is pretty slick and cool.
But dealers tell us that, hey, voice is cool.
It's novel.
But how does it practically integrate
into the dealer operation?
So if you want to use it in service for scheduling
or sales to help answer,
like walk us through the practical integration
of that tool into dealer operations.
Okay.
So we'll pick a more complex use case.
Let's say somebody wants to book a recall, right?
Where you need to check if the part is available, right?
So there are a couple of steps.
So first is there are certain places
where that information is within your system.
Or maybe it's in your inventory.
Maybe it's in separate software, let's say it's A, B and C.
So when you call, the first thing is
you need to understand what the context is.
You know why the customer is calling.
You get all that information.
Next thing is, okay, let me figure out
what I need to know from my side
to answer that question correctly, right?
Which is, oh, if you're calling for a recall,
let me check if the part is available.
Then you can hit that integration
or wherever that is, get that information.
Then move the conversation to next step.
So it's basically a step-by-step process,
much similar to how humans operate,
which is let me find where that information is
to move to the next step.
I grab that information, I let the customer know
and the customer chooses, what do I do with that?
And then you make a decision.
So it's this ping-pong, right?
But I think it all involves
getting more and more context over time
so that you can fulfill whatever the customer's desire is.
And every conversation is that.
Like even our conversation right now,
like I'm just looking it up in my brain
and my experiences to pull that, right?
Just stream where I'm throwing things in
and you're pulling things out,
like that's basically what it is.
Yeah, so for the dealers that looked at Voice AI,
let's say six months ago or a year ago
and just said, hey, it's not quite there yet.
What's happened over the past 90 days,
let's say, or six months
that has helped this to become better
where I could actually put this in front of my customers
and feel confident that they're gonna have a good experience.
Yeah, I think two things.
One is it has started sounding more natural.
It feels very realistic.
And I think there is a term,
I think it was called anthromorphizing
or something like that where, you know,
you get a rope off.
Anthromorphizing, I don't know if that's right,
but that's a cool word, I like it.
But what that word is is that a robot,
you know it's a robot,
but it looks and feels like a human, right?
So you cannot help but engage with it like a human does
because it's just your natural tendency.
So that's what's happening with the voice piece
where it's like sounding so real and it's behaving.
You know, it's like having these like filler words
and it's like stopping, laughing, emotional, that stuff.
Second thing is it's actually becoming smarter
or let's say less dumb, where it gets you.
You know, like when you said something like two times,
it will recognize that and I see that you said it twice,
you know, and then, you know,
you don't understand that it needs to address
something with urgency or not.
So I think there's this overall model improvements
that are just helping increase conversion rates,
for example, right?
But stuff that was 50%, maybe six months ago
is now at 65, 70, 80% depending on the use case.
So if you have a dealer that's listening to this show right now
and they're like, hey, I like the idea of this.
And I think part of the strategy
has got to be so many of our employees
have never had a really great phone conversation
with anyone, right?
Like we're so used to texting nowadays.
We're so used to emailing and messaging and Snapchatting
and being on all the social media platforms.
Some folks just aren't as comfortable on the phone.
If I said, hey, I want to enhance my operations
by having this voice AI capability,
where would you recommend a dealer
that's never done anything with voice AI?
Where would they start?
Where's the best first use case
for a technology like this?
Just to caveat, like we also do like automation
over text as well.
So the same conversation that happens over voice,
you can chat like there are certain dealers
that we have where they have a number
where you can just text that number
and talk to them about booking appointments,
getting status updates, all of that in one place.
But let's say if you were,
you just want to use voice AI on the service side,
that's helpful.
So the two use cases, inbound and outbound,
pretty much any use case that you have
is inbound on the parts counter on,
that's simple thing.
If you have a wholesale parts operation,
you could put the AI there to get orders
and to make sure that they're checking status
on some order or they're putting a new order in,
you can grab all of that.
On the service side, obviously,
for getting booking appointments, pricing hours,
all of those things.
On the sales side, after hours,
where people are calling in to check inventory
like post 8 p.m. or on the weekends,
like you have it on the lot.
What are, if you wanted to put in like financing,
like, you know, what is my payment
gonna look like roughly?
Or if you wanted to use car acquisition,
that we, you know,
you can do vehicle evaluations on the call itself.
So I mean, I just threw like five,
six use cases over right now,
but there are a lot of places like,
because these agents, they,
the AI does not distinguish between use cases.
It sees the whole thing as one task, right?
Because you could ask five things on the same call
and it will do it for you.
So that's the format really.
Monica, quick question for you.
So we've talked a lot about, you know,
the customer experience and what the customer is going
to see or feel when they're interacting with the AI.
But how do you solve for what I think
is the biggest hurdle with adoption in the dealership,
like getting the adoption from the employees
in the individual departments.
How do you get employees bought off, yeah?
So I think the way our onboarding works, for example,
is that we have a process of teaching the agent
where the employees are actually involved
in evaluating the output of it.
So they see everything.
We don't try to hide what's happening.
We go up front and we're like here,
call it 20 times or you see the first 20 calls
that happened and you slowly roll it out.
You don't start taking all of the calls at once.
You start with like, let's take 10% and let's assess that.
So the employees see it working.
When you're saying see it working,
is this like a separate portal that you've created
that the users are working into?
They get email updates if they want that
or they can log into the dashboard,
listen to every single call if they want.
They can see what happened and they even get flagged
on like, oh, this AI call pissed the customer off.
So we flag it to them, they see it,
and then they usually have a suggestion.
They're like, instead of doing this, how about you do that?
So I think the way they're brought in
is because it is a process that involves them.
They are making the changes to the agent, right?
And I think that is the future
where I think that savvy employee thing
that I was mentioning, like you see more of them
and they'll be the experts of training this thing.
So they come in and they're like, I don't want to do,
let's change this, let's make it this way.
So I think-
Monic, if I'm a dealer listening to this show,
hearing what you're saying,
and I look across my show and floor
and there's nobody that's kind of that expert,
is there a path to learning more as an employee in the deal?
Because I agree with you,
like a subject matter expert
that can help guide others through it is super important.
What advice would you give to that person
that like wants to learn more,
become that subject matter expert,
gain value by becoming that expert?
What advice would you give them?
To do that.
I wish there was something I could say
where I take this course
or go to university or do that.
Chat GPT, chat GPT.
Yes.
Got to play with it.
Exactly.
The best thing is like-
Got to play with it.
How did your best salesman like,
where did they learn how to be good at sales?
Buy-
They sell.
Yeah, just trying.
Right, so anytime you work with tools
that actually let you do things,
see the feedback of it
and like, you know, have that virtuous loop,
then you can learn something.
Otherwise, if it's like, you know,
a brick and you just look at it
and it's good and bad
and that's it, that's the end.
All right, unfortunately,
we're almost out of time.
We got to keep going.
But I understand you had a couple of questions
for us as it relates to voice AI.
Like, at best almost.
We got a couple of minutes left.
What you got?
Let's do rapid fire.
So I'm going to ask you.
So we've done like thousands of calls
and you know, I have answers to these based on data,
but I love to see what you think.
Okay, so we have AI phone calls all the time.
The question is what,
and from the perspective of conversions, okay,
do you think a male voice converts more or a female voice?
Female.
That's correct.
It is female and by a huge margin.
Like, I don't know what it is, but it works.
The second thing is,
do you think a formal tone works more
or a casual tone works more for conversion?
Casual.
Female, casual, British accent.
We have some Australian ones, but casual.
Actually, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
So that was a little surprising.
I thought casual too.
The third one is, do you think having background noise
actually helps convert customers more
or if it's just, you know, like silent
and, you know, just not, not...
Background noise because you want authenticity,
you want reality.
I think it's like 60, 40, yeah.
So there's like a slight, you know, increase
and like if it's background noise,
people actually engage more.
This is a tricky one.
So do you think telling, like, you know,
when you open the call and you straight say like,
hey, you're talking to an AI
or, you know, you're just not saying that
and you just engage with the customer as is, right?
I think engage as is.
I appreciate when they say it's AI
so you know exactly what you're doing
and I like that better.
Yeah, I think for transparency,
but I think for conversion,
I think it's better the customer doesn't know.
I think you probably have pushback if you divulge.
Well, surprising answer is people don't care.
It's about the same.
Yeah, interesting.
I don't know what it,
and then I think the final one would be,
do you think AI calls end up being longer
than regular calls or shorter than, you know,
if humans were taking the call?
Shorter.
Yeah, for me, it would absolutely be shorter
because I get frustrated with like,
nothing's more aggravated.
That's a use of smashing zero.
Yeah, nothing's more aggravating
than calling an airline and just getting lunacy, right?
Like I think AI agents are much faster more.
You know, here's what I want one day.
I want my own AI agent
that will make all the calls do all the things
and represent me.
Like I don't want to call the airline.
I don't want to...
Like Google does that, by the way.
I think on Google Maps, certain business,
like restaurants, it can make the...
Really?
Yeah, it can make...
So many times we're getting AI calls right now.
It's kind of, it's mind-blowing.
There are certain apps that do that,
but like, you know...
I want in on that.
I want in on that because...
It's coming.
Because one day I don't want to ever
have to pick up a phone or type out a text
or type out an email.
I just want to say what I need
and then let my agent go out and work for me.
That's the power of AI at some point.
How long, Monik, as we wrap today,
last question, how long before that happens?
It is happening, right now.
Yeah, the speed of AI evolution,
adoption and integration voice
and otherwise is astounding.
So Monik, Pamechka, I got so close.
Thank you for being on the show today
and sharing your perspectives.
Absolutely fascinating, this industry.
Thank you for being on CO and Tomah.
All right, thank you guys.
That's what I want.
I just need an AI agent that'll go out
and just do it all for me.
Do your things for you, make the calls.
Yes. Yeah, I'm with you.
Yes. Yeah, it's coming.
And then think about...
So this is what's interesting.
People are so worried about losing jobs.
There are elements of all of our jobs
that just do not inspire us,
do not give us energy, do not excite us.
And so much of it has to do with those things
that are just mundane.
Let me, instead of me calling
to make that airline reservation,
I want to call the car dealership guy, Yossi,
and have a great conversation with him.
Call the CEO of my company, Aaron,
and have a great conversation with him.
I don't want to sit on hold for an airline
or a hotel or a restaurant or anything else.
That's the key.
So if anyone, but he has that tool,
I want you on this show
because we'd love to hear you.
But until then, next up,
we turn to Matthew Groudy, Groudy.
Groudy.
At The Change Optimist.
Welcome to the show, Groudy.
How are you?
Hey, I'm good.
Thanks for having me.
Welcome.
By the way, before we ask you how's biz,
we must acknowledge your nine-inch nails hat
because I was just listening to...
Now we all have to go back to the 1990s for this,
but I was on a bike ride recently,
nine-inch nails,
had like a whole classic song,
very dark, but an incredible piece of musical talent.
Did you go to the concert?
I did.
So they're on tour right now.
I wouldn't miss it.
So they were in Toronto just two weeks ago.
It was spectacular.
Probably the best show.
Best nine-inch nails concert I've ever seen.
Wait, okay.
But you're not saying best concert ever.
You're leaving it within nine-inch nails.
Correct.
I'm reading that.
But well, so the best concert ever for me
probably also included nine-inch nails
and that was Lollapalooza 91.
Oh, nice.
Lollapalooza, yeah.
All right, we're going to go down.
We'll end up down a complete five...
We'll go down that rabble hole later
because I agree with you, concerts are awesome
and I would love to see nine-inch nails
at some point someday.
But before we go into that, how's biz,
and as part of that, tell us a little bit about yourself
and what you do in the world.
Right, what do I do?
I mean, business is good.
I cover a lot of bases,
so I'm a little all over the place.
But I was talking to someone recently
and they were kind of going on and on and on
about why is the automotive industry
so difficult and backwards
and I stopped them halfway through their spiel
and I just said, dude, this is why you have a job.
Like this is...
I'm like, for as long as you want to work
in this industry, you're going to be able to work
because there's definitely work to do.
There are questions to answer.
There's technology solutions that are needed.
There is improvements in marketing.
So I would stop complaining and just go do the work.
Yeah, embrace it.
So I'm fascinated right out the bat
with something in your bio here
and I don't know if you're okay.
Like, you worked with Google Auto.
You were the Google Auto lead in Canada.
Tell us what that means
and what was Google doing in automotive?
And I'm just curious what some of the lessons
we can learn from that
as you think about Amazon and some of these other entities
that are large that are out there trying to go to the market.
I mean, so Google is...
There are many heads at Google.
Google is like the Hydra.
It's like Hydra in the market.
Cut off one head to grow back.
So I worked...
I got hired as an account executive
in the automotive ad sales team.
I worked initially with Ford
as kind of a dedicated account rep for a period of time.
Over a number of years,
I also worked with Honda and Kia.
And then I came back from a meeting
with Ford dealers one time
and I basically came back to the office and I said,
I think we're screwing up how we manage the dealer business.
I didn't use the word screwing.
I used a different word.
And they were like, great,
put a business plan together
and tell us why we should address it differently.
And thankfully,
there was already a bit of a model built in the US
to do this,
but I built a team within the team
that just worked with dealers
to try and focus on auto retail
as a different segment
and get out in the field,
get to know senior leaders
that all of the largest auto groups in Canada
work with some of the other auto retail players
like the Canadian equivalents of Carvana.
So Canada Drives, Clutch, et cetera.
And try and, as I described it,
deliver the gospel according to Google to car dealers.
Yeah.
So that was...
And that got me out into the wild a lot
and that got me a lot of profile.
And it meant I got to go to a lot of presentations
and drop a lot of F-bombs
and build a bit of a reputation
as the foul mouthed Googler out in the wild.
And let me see a lot of what was going on
across the country.
So unfortunately,
we've got just a short amount of time left
and I want to be super efficient.
So you consult and work with dealer groups
in a whole bunch of different areas.
Marketing is one of your areas of focus.
What are a couple of the biggest mistakes
dealers make today in the marketing space
and how could they quickly fix that
in September of 2025 to become more efficient,
generate or more revenue, become more profitable?
Man, we don't have enough time.
It's a long list.
I mean, I do...
When specifically when I think about Google,
this is also true in Meta and other,
it's that all of those platforms are now so
data specific, it sounds redundant to say that,
but the two things that almost everyone gets wrong
or doesn't do to the extent that they should
is that their conversions are broken.
So they're not recording their leads properly
or they're not recording the phone calls properly or...
How do you fix that?
That's a longer question, a longer answer.
But I'll give it to you.
And or based on their budget,
regardless of what market they're in,
they're optimizing to too many conversions.
So because your budget can only be split so many ways.
How do you fix it?
So you either need a vendor that's super cooperative
that knows how to implement
and build that tracking capabilities.
If you don't have that or you don't trust them
for whatever reason,
then you're gonna need like a qualified third party
to kind of come in and do that work.
There's a bunch of consultancies that just focus on,
say Google Analytics Optimization and conversion tracking,
and especially when it comes down to all of the widgets,
like for every iFrame and button that opens
in a different window that pulls data
from a different service,
that gets trickier to actually track as a conversion
if you wanna optimize your media spend to it.
But you've gotta get that right
because both Google and Meta are both conversion
and value obsessed.
So if you don't have that foundation set up properly,
nothing else is gonna work
and you're just gonna be spending bad money after bad.
And I see that all over the place.
I get random calls all the time
where a dealer will call me and say,
like this account will not spend.
And I'm like, well, that shouldn't be the objective.
Like when we'd be spending to some sort of goals,
some sort of conversion point,
and then I'll dig into the account,
they'll give me access to the account
and I'll see, oh, you're all of your conversion set
is fudged.
So that's number one.
And then the rest is the,
I kinda knew you'd ask this question,
that Google changes things too quickly.
And I think even if you've got a,
you're working with a certified vendor
and your certified OEM program,
there's a good chance that they don't know
or haven't been taught or aren't,
on top of the latest and greatest changes
that Google and Meta and down the line,
Pinterest, TikTok, et cetera.
Give us an example of a recent change
and we're gonna extend just a few minutes here,
but give us an example of a recent change Google made
that makes it difficult to stay up to date on that one.
The biggest one, well, and it cuts both ways
because they will change something,
make fanfare about it,
and then the broader recommendation is don't do it yet.
So that's how everybody figures it out, right?
Right, so one is like,
so they made a lot of noise earlier this year about AI Max
and arguably that product in Google ads is,
it's too new.
It's not great for branded OEM vendors,
like for OEM dealers,
because it'll start bidding all over the place
and you won't have control of the keywords.
And so without putting some other controls in place,
that can be very problematic.
Though the biggest one, again,
it goes back to conversions
because Google had a way to import clicks a few years ago
and then they changed that technology
and they rebranded and re-released that product
called Enhanced Conversions.
And Enhanced Conversions was built to be a tool
to allow Google to see into traffic
coming from iOS and Safari,
because iOS and Safari are shutting down
other providers, other third-party tracking,
other third-party cookies.
So Enhanced Conversions is how Google models its data
to try and look at the clickstream to understand
what are those visitors doing and in Canada and the US,
that's like half the traffic is coming from iOS and Safari.
So if that's not enabled, then you're, again,
your conversion setup is probably messed up
and you're probably spending money
in ways you probably shouldn't.
So if you're a single-point dealer
sitting at your store right now
thinking about your marketing plan,
how do you stay on top of all of this?
Like, that's not easy.
How do I know this?
How do I, is there a blog?
Is there a forum?
I mean, obviously hang out here
because this is a 20 group and you'll learn here,
but how do I stay on top of those changes
so I don't miss efficiency with dollar spend
and digital ads?
I mean, I have a kind of an unconventional answer
that I give now when I talk about that
in a dealer meeting or a dealer setting
and that's that there is now this growing population
of Google ads experts on LinkedIn
and I have a list of them
and I say just go follow these people.
Because-
How do we find that list?
I can share it with you after.
Yeah, I'll share it with you after.
And some of them are my former Google colleagues
who are doing a bang up job
and staying on top of this stuff
and then talking about it
because it's their business.
They've-
Product awareness.
Yeah.
It's kind of like,
if you and your agency can't call Google directly
like calling five people who used to work at Google
might be the next best thing.
Yeah, okay.
Next question,
because we want to get as much info as we can
that dealers can use today
when they think about their digital ad spend,
their marketing campaign.
What's one metric that most dealers overate
and what's one that we should look at instead?
So what's the most overrated
and what's something we should look at?
I don't know.
There is a lot of noise about VDP views.
Like there's so much noise about VDP views
and I get that that's a useful metric
but it frustrates me when again
I see that somebody is spending money
optimizing to that metric.
And usually that's an indication to me
that whoever the ad provider was
wasn't able to drive leads and phone calls
and so they picked a more lower hanging fruit metric.
And so that I find frustrating in the wild
and kind of push against.
Why is VDP views so misleading?
Because it's just traffic without an action, right?
Correct.
I mean, it's useful and if there was no other data
like I think there was a time not so long ago
call it five or six years ago
where Google and Meta wanted more data
to optimize campaigns.
And so if that was the conversion you could get
it was a reasonable signal.
It was a reasonable starting point
but both tools both ad platforms are now better able
using AI in the background to make a determination
to get you a phone call, get you a lead form fill
without having to use kind of those vanity metrics
in between anymore.
But to answer your other question
it's simple is then anytime I mentioned this
people are like what's a conversion
but it's the cost per like it's then you're
I don't like to go to return on ad spend.
I think return on ad spend is very valuable
if you were a consumer e-commerce
or regular retail not auto retail client
where you're selling t-shirts
or electronics or books online
then that's a lot easier to calculate
but where we have this disconnected process
the return on ad spend is not as useful.
Usually it's just let's focus on what conversions we're getting
let's focus on what the cost per conversion is.
So Lauren Klein is coming in saying abandonment rate.
Yes I mean it depends on how you're again
with the way that Google now allows you to build your own events
and customize your own events
that can be what is abandonment
but and it's there's a funny conversation around
like say bounce rate because
and I used to use the example that you know
in the universe of Google they want the highest possible
Google wants the highest possible bounce rate on google.com
because it meant you found the thing you want and you went there
right so depending on how your website is built
bounce can mean or abandonment can mean different things
if you're talking abandonment in the in the notion of a funnel
or in the notion of like a process flow
then yes you can use like you know cart ads
or digital retail checkout as a pretty strong signal
but again in my for my money I would I would log that more as a secondary conversion
and focus on the end goal focus on okay all right so again in that
lightning round of vein last question up actually two last two last questions
what's the most valuable first party signal
the dealer should activate now and what is a first party signal
well I mean first party data is your own data and this was the other thing I was
going to say what I started done this path and then I stopped
and that so the other thing that dealers are consistently not doing well
is they're not activating on the run serum data in meta and in
Google right so Google wants you they call it customer match they call it
audience in in meta but to to get that data out of your
CRM and then into those platforms even if you're
not optimizing to it at least gives the platform a signal to say hey this is what
our buyers have looked like in the past let's go find
more of those people so super powerful the other audience signal
that is super powerful and there's a bunch of ways to skin this cat
in Google audiences is what did people search before
or what was the adjacent you can build segments based on
search behavior and then you can say okay let's
like you know let's see if people are searching for that for my competitors
name for my competitor dealership name down the road
and let's use that as part of an audience strategy
well Matthew Groudy Groud consultant the change optimist we appreciate you
joining sharing your perspectives last question is where is nine-inch nails
performing next I don't know I mean they're
all over the US it's it's funny the updates come to me
fast and curious on YouTube and Instagram
because now people are posting you know full version HD versions of every show
I'm not sure I think they end in LA I think their last show is in LA
it is fun to see as some of these bands that we all grow you know I'm
50 you know I grew up on nine-inch nails the cure
Oingo Boingo all these bands it's fun to see they are so old now they're
just on their sunset tour their last glory tour and it's
fun to go see them and watch them so we'll have to connect on all that
I didn't see it but Oasis was in town here just that's true yeah
in Chicago too actually they came through
they've done a an entire tour in the Midwest as well
so anyway thanks we appreciate you being on the show thanks for being here
thanks for having me thank you I actually heard about Oasis
and I had to google it because I don't know Oasis as well as some of these
others but music is definitely a passion and something fun to watch so
good show today huh great show yeah always I
I am gonna be super interested to see what happens to EV's
October of 2025 yeah and what does the demand curve really look like without
any support behind it yeah I'm gonna bet it doesn't fall off
the cliff everybody's worried about because so
so little actually does I think OEM's a pulled-back production
they've modified behavior and I think there's going to be some sort of a norm
and then hybrids are going to continue to climb
yeah in in percent sales so that'll be fun that'll be fun to watch
so I agree really great show thanks for doing the show today
and to our audience thanks you thank you for watching The Daily Deal Alive
today where we break down the biggest moves in the car business
as they happen don't forget we're here every Monday Wednesday and we'll
be back again this Friday so if this is your world
be sure to hit like be sure to hit subscribe be sure to turn on those
notifications so you never ever miss a beat and
everybody out there we'll see you next episode see you Friday
see you guys
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