Car Dealership Guy Podcast Sep 10, 2025

Miller on EV Profitability, Toma on AI-Hesitancy, Growden on Dealer Waste | Daily Dealer Live

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We're doing better as a result of social media presence, and it doesn't do those three things

then it's on the chopping block.

It's in return on investment discussion.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of The Daily Dealer Live.

I'm your host, Sam Darkin.

Back with me today again is Yuli D.

What's up, guys?

Welcome back.

Thanks.

It's good to have you back on this Wednesday in September, and for those joining our live

stream, as always, we're live across all CDG social media platforms.

Post those comments.

We'll bring them into today's show truly.

Your comments, your feedback, your interaction help make today's show even eliter or

more elite.

It'll be awesome.

And what do we have coming up for you, our Daily Dealer Live audience?

Well, on this Wednesday, the Cardiola ship guy himself, Yosi made a post, and he said,

you know what, more Cardiola's would sell EVs if only EVs were profitable.

Well, we've got one G, we've got one dealer from the Midwest that says, uh-uh, not

so fast.

Profitable it is.

We'll have him on in just a moment, plus Toma joins on AI hesitancy, and then

Groudon.

Yes, there's more to that on dealer waste.

Before we get into that, let's dive into today's biggest headlines.

First up on this Wednesday, Volkswagen is going all in on get it AI intelligence, artificial

intelligence.

They're pledging $1.2 billion by 2030 to bake AI into just about every corner of its business.

Get ready for this.

Buckle up, no pun intended.

The automaker already runs more than 1200 AI applications with hundreds more in the

pipeline.

Now it's doubling down.

Think AI-powered engineering tools that let its designers run virtual tests, and a factory

cloud linking more than 40 plants where new AI processes get plugged directly into production.

Board member Hauch stars summed it up by saying AI will be the backbone of how they want

to design, build, and sell cars going forward.

The bet comes as VW faces big pressure to boost margins and speed up time to market.

If the strategy works, AI could be the lever that makes the company leaner, faster, and

tougher to compete with.

Maybe there's a good AI fuel economy bought too soon.

Next up today, get this, car buyers came rushing in in August trying to close deals

before tariffs hit, and federal EV tax credits disappear at the end of September.

We're seeing a big rush in our auto group to scoop up those EVs with credits available.

On paper, the buying process looks better.

CDK Global's Ease of Purchase score in August went up.

It ticked up to 89%, that's a huge improvement from just a couple months ago, but beneath

the surface inventory was thinning out.

Only 43% of buyers were able to drive a car straight off the lot.

That's an astounding stat, 43% of buyers drove off the lot, 29% had to buy something

in transit or in production.

That's astounding.

With fewer cars available on dealer lots, two of the biggest parts of the car buying

experience got worse in August.

Test drives and vehicle delivery.

For dealers, that's a trade-off.

Urgency, easier negotiations and better credit availability are helping clear out

old inventory now, but the experience is under strain.

And how that plays out once incentives vanish and new model pricing kicks in

will be the real test.

That's astounding, 43% drove off the lot and 30% was we'll see you later when

that vehicle actually hits.

Interesting, right?

Crazy to think about.

Next up today, buy-seller tracker alert.

Remember the CDG buy-sell tracker.

Go there for all your updates and daily news on M&A, mergers and acquisitions.

So, hey, I love it.

We got it.

Yossi promised it last episode and it's real.

Wait, you got to hear that again.

Let's do it if it's possible.

Oh, that makes me happy.

I love it.

We have our jingle.

Lithiumotors just planted its flag deeper in South Florida buying Palm Beach

Acura along with a Hyundai Genesis store in West Palm Beach from Napleton Auto Group.

They're a Chicagoland based auto group that I'm familiar with.

Lithia CEO Brian DeBoer says the move builds density for at least

Lithia's omnichannel model while adding luxury and import brands

that fit neatly into the group's long-term growth playbook.

And South Florida isn't just any market.

It's one of the wealthiest in the country.

And that means these rooftops are high-margin assets in a region

where clustering brands can create serious cost and marketing advantages.

Much luck to Lithia as they continue to gobble up stores,

including in Florida, a state I love.

I love the sunshine there.

So, next up today is a headline that we've been hearing a lot of lately.

Ford is back in the headlines with another massive recall.

This time nearly, get this, 1.5 million vehicles across its 2015 to 2019 lineup.

From super-duty pickups to Mustangs and Lincoln SUVs,

the issue this time stems from rear-view cameras,

which we've seen that before this year,

that can distort, flip, or go completely blank.

Uh-oh.

Federal regulators say Ford already knows of 18 accidents tied to the faulty cameras,

though no injuries have been reported and dealers will replace the cameras free of charge.

So that's service business for Ford dealers.

But the bigger picture is tough to ignore.

Ford has now topped 8 million recalled vehicles this year,

and we're not done with the year yet.

More than 100 separate actions.

This is averaging more than, get this, one recall in every two days.

Wow.

That's crazy.

That is crazy.

And that's a wrap on today's industry news.

So, Yuli, just a quick look back.

We're on episode 51-52, somewhere in that ballpark.

53.

Today's episode 53.

We broke the 50.

I recently spoke at an Experian gig,

and they asked a good question I hadn't thought about.

I want your answer.

They said, Sam, what's your favorite episode?

Because I always talk about how much I learned just being on here.

And I was like, yeah, that's a great question.

So here's my three top favorites.

Roarman, I love Ryan Roarman coming on and sharing his tech stack.

Not because he shared what they do,

but because he's so blasted knowledgeable on how

that tech stack's put together and forward thinking on it.

I really appreciated from Infinity and Nissan,

Vinay and Tiago coming on and speaking very candidly

about their challenge and their struggle to overcome

some of the adversity facing Nissan and Infinity

and their path forward.

I really like Dennis Gingrich coming on.

Dennis and Toley doing his variable fixed ops.

And then a shocker to me.

We had a VC guest last week, Steve Greenfield,

that also kind of broke down some of the myths in all things

AI, really liked his episode.

What's your favorite?

All right, not offending any of my friends

and personal friends that have been on the show, right?

But I'd have to agree.

So my number one is probably Roarman,

because we always talk about the relentless execution

of the basics.

And there's nuance, right?

We all do the same thing, but a little different.

And this is a 20 group.

It's an evolving thing.

But to see just that deep dive into a massive area in our space,

that's like, there's so much more that we

need to dig into there.

It was just really eye-opening.

Yeah.

In fact, I don't want to tease it too much.

But we're working on two roundtables.

One is automotive AI cage match.

And the idea is let's bring AI experts

from around the industry together.

And just help us figure out what the heck is going on.

The other thing we're working on is finance manager roundtable.

That could be coming up here over the next couple of weeks.

I master class, if you will.

Yes.

And then an OEM.

Hey, my OEM is the best OEM in all of automotive.

So three of those, if you have any interest

in joining us on the AI automotive cage match,

reach out to myself.

You can DM me.

You can also reach out to Michelle.

Or if you want to join the finance director roundtable

potentially here in the next couple of weeks,

reach out as well.

We'd love to have you on board.

And speaking of that, Yuli, we get a ton of requests

from auto dealers across the nation to join the show.

We've got one place to go for that.

cdgguest.com to fill out the intake.

You'll meet Michelle, speaking of Michelle.

She is our scheduler extraordinaire.

She'll hear your story, hear your viewpoint,

and invite you to come on.

We look forward to hearing your perspectives.

And then let's talk NADA, car dealership guys,

back with our second annual NADA party happening

in Las Vegas on Thursday, February 5th.

That is the hottest ticket at NADA 2026.

We'll have a special guest and top automotive personalities

to be considered for a formal invite.

Just hit the link in the show notes, request to join,

and fill out the question there.

We can't accommodate everybody,

but it is one of the coolest parties.

Having been last year, what astounded me

about the crowd at cdg is you've got really forward

thinking folks in all of automotive.

I would argue, you look at the different parties out there,

you look at, I don't even want to throw shade at anybody else,

but you think about all the other gatherings

that go on at NADA.

I defy anyone to find the future of automotive

better than what sits at the cdg party.

So I rotated around that party and just talked to people

and tried to understand their viewpoints.

I learned a ton in that one moment.

Dan C says online, thanks guys for keeping up

with the ongoing challenges related to the Ford recall list.

We're committed to bringing that to you.

And by the way, we love Ford.

So no shade on Ford.

We're just trying to figure out what's going on

and we're trying to report the news as it happens

and as we see it.

So don't stop quoting, don't stop posting

to social media throughout today's show.

And with that, let's go straight into today's first guest.

Up first today, Eric Miller,

director at Maury's Automotive Group.

Eric, welcome to the show.

Welcome.

Thank you.

So Eric, you're here because you answered a post,

but before we go into your post,

let's ask with our banner question, how's biz?

And as part of your answer,

just share a little bit about yourself

in the auto group where you're located.

Sure.

I'm the director of pre-owned inventory

for Maury's Automotive.

Generally speaking, Minneapolis market,

although has expanded into Wisconsin, Illinois

and Michigan, as a luxury campus,

we have a couple of different brands,

Cadillac being kind of the anchor.

And since we're talking about EVs,

Cadillac has done pretty well with EVs.

I've been in the industry 33 years

or this is my 33rd year

and I've worn kind of every hat.

So my experience is broad

and I bring that to the table.

Okay.

So you read Yossi's post,

which basically said, hey, more dealers would sell EVs.

Oh, wait, but wait, how's business at Maury's?

First of all, I blew past that.

Business is good.

It's stable and some segments growing.

It has some tough parts.

Acquiring inventory has been really challenging

this whole year, but generally speaking,

whatever we fear is going to happen,

hasn't happened yet.

We're shoring it up and performing well.

Sam, that's another one of the good column, FYI.

I know you have your tracker over there.

Yeah, yeah, we do have the tracker.

We do have the tracker, so thank you for that.

All right, so you answered the post.

Yossi said, hey, you know what,

more dealers would do business in EVs

if these EVs were profitable,

the illusion being that they're not.

But you said, wait, they are profitable.

What are most dealers missing today, Eric,

about profitability in the EV space?

That causes them to not see that opportunity.

You're the number one Cadillac EV dealer

in the north central region, west of the lake.

You've sold 60 plus new and used a couple times

this year so far.

What do most dealers miss about EVs, Eric?

I think in general, there's the perception

that the public isn't ready

or that somebody is forcing the EV movement,

but it is kind of an internal monologue

that derails looking at it as an opportunity.

If you think something is not gonna sell,

I think that self perpetuates.

Yeah, it doesn't sell, right, yeah.

As an industry, you have a pretty green sales staff.

I mean, I don't think that my store, my campus,

my dealer group or even our region are alone in that.

I mean, the statistics bear it out.

Many of them have not sold automobiles

pre-COVID and there's quite a bit of disconnect

when it comes to how do we become an information source

to our guests as opposed to just being order takers.

That dialogue occurred during COVID.

We knew this was gonna happen, right?

We knew this was not the way it was gonna be forever.

We lost a lot of institutional knowledge,

a lot of people who knew what they were doing

had experienced selling cars.

And there's the opportunity, right?

If we can go back to the basics and execute,

learn what our clients' needs are,

so doing a good needs analysis would be

kind of the start of that

and not force somebody into what we think

or what we believe, but truly listen to them

and give them options.

Within the store, every store, every brand

is going to be different.

There's gonna be different demographics.

There's gonna be different markets.

But in general, if they are coming into the showroom

curious about EVs or open to the idea

and believe me, some aren't, right?

But if they're open to the idea,

they expect the person that they bump into

and often it is, right?

It's random to be knowledgeable,

be able to answer their questions.

There's a big disconnect when you walk into showroom

that you're unfamiliar with.

And so the side note is the Cadillac is nearly 80%

new to the brand of people coming into the showroom

or at least buying in the showroom.

So they don't have people that they know like and trust.

They are bumping into somebody random

and asking questions.

But they're prepared.

They know a lot of those answers.

And when they're not met with the same knowledge

and care and empathy, they disconnect and walk away.

So...

So part of what you're saying is part of the equation

is better education, better belief on the sales floor.

100%.

Better education for the consumer.

And a sales team that not only is ready

to entertain those questions,

but has a belief level that it's a good option

for the consumer.

So the clock is counting down.

Federal rebates end the end of this month.

That's about 20 days away.

What's your prediction that happens

on the backside of that?

Does demand fall off and the market collapse

in some dramatic fashion?

Or is there some sort of a new norm

that is just short of today's current production

or somewhere in between?

Somewhere in between is a safe bet, right?

I think we're not gonna see a collapse,

at least long-term.

I believe that we're gonna see a downturn

as people kind of wait out what the new norm looks like.

You're gonna see manufacturers scramble

to kind of fill the void.

Again, General Motors, which is our anchor,

at least in my purview, has done that before.

Now there was a time where Cadillac kind of fell off

the $7,500 credit eligibility

as they moved production around.

And in that time stepped up

with what they called the LTM Promise,

which was a $7,500 rebate.

Will they do something like that temporarily

or even kind of within a short-term strategy?

Don't know for sure.

They'll need to, right?

The public is kind of expecting that this gets met.

But this isn't new.

This isn't even about EVs necessarily.

This has happened over and over cyclically

for the 30 years I've been in the business.

This has happened before.

So whether it is fuel economy

or whether it is some other regulatory pressure

that the manufacturers to do what they do

or react to what they do, this isn't new.

So the manufacturer is pretty well equipped to handle it.

Well, let's go into a little bit of a lightning round

and just kind of understand your operation

and how it is at the end of the day profitable.

So let's talk first up, buying those used EVs.

So you're in charge of that acquisition,

I would assume, as part of your role.

What's your best source for buying used EVs?

What's your strategy on finding and appraising?

And, you know, are there any landmines in there

and used car acquisition in EVs that you're avoiding?

Absolutely.

The landmine for, you know, so far in 2025

has been vehicles that are just slightly over

the cutoff point for the federal EV tax credit.

Yeah.

Yeah, but wait, that proves,

yeah, but that proves that the federal tax credit

is boing up the market in a way that's unhealthy, yeah?

Well, I don't know about unhealthy,

but it's certainly people aren't dumb

if they can buy a car and land them net at 21

that was 25 versus find the same car

with 10,000 fewer miles and it's 26,

they'll step around it to find the car

that does get them to 25, which means it's 21.

So this is just opportunity.

I wouldn't even say that people are motivated by that.

Yeah.

But they're not dumb either.

When it goes away, that segment, 25, 26, 27,000 dollars,

I think heats up again.

But for now, that has been the landmine

that you'd want to avoid as a buyer.

That car will turn slowly.

So have you altered your buying strategy for 60 and 90 days

to accommodate the elimination of the rebates

and what are you doing for that?

Are you picking up those vehicles

that previously didn't qualify at a higher clip

or what's your new strategy once the rebates disappear?

We have done a good job in the middle,

meaning it's not vehicles that qualify

for the federal tax credit on the used car basis,

meaning 25 and under, we've done a good job

where say GM company cars,

if they already reflect the very best stack of incentives,

including the federal tax credit,

the used car market has to have that baked in, right?

If I can have a $75,000 Cadillac Lyric,

I'll use that example,

because that's kind of what we do.

If I can walk into a showroom

and buy one that was a courtesy vehicle

and I get Costco and I get Conquest

and I am eligible for the 7,500,

and I can stack all that and be $15,000 off,

all of a sudden the real transaction price

of that car is 55,

but not everybody will qualify for all those incentives.

So if I can pick up a GM company car

with two, three, 8,000 miles on it,

offer it a certified pre-owned and come in at 48,

I now have a compelling story to tell the people

who don't qualify,

which believe me, a lot of our customers

are over a $100,000 income catchment.

That's a place that we wanna live in can compete.

Some people are gonna lease EVs

because that $7,500 impact really squeezes

well into a two or three-year period to lower payments,

but again, that's not for everybody.

So it's kind of finding products

that complement each other

without just undercutting new car sales.

So what does Average Recon look like in your group

on an EV?

Well, on EVs, it's a little bit different.

We can count on a little bit lower reconditioning cost.

It's not as likely that they're gonna need breaks

for an example.

We're not doing an oil change as they come in.

So tires, they're gonna chew through them.

We kind of set aside for that,

but usually when we're acquiring vehicles,

we know what the tire measurement support

when we bought them.

Missing EV SE chargers,

photographs of the vehicles that really don't show

in the compartments where those EV SE chargers may be

can be a gotcha.

They can be several hundred dollars.

We did from January until probably last month,

a lot of bolts, Chevrolet bolts that were by them.

Interesting.

They got new batteries.

They had 12 month, 12,000 mile repurchase,

but those vehicles had been sitting in GM holding yards

for two and three years.

So we counted on, we have to put tires on these.

We have to put a 12-volt battery.

We need to do wiper blades.

There's gonna be other things that,

just degradation of time and sitting.

So even if they measured 732nd tread depth,

they showed up, they'd have date codes of 2018.

We needed to replace the tires.

We did dozens of them,

like near 100, and this is the topic of conversation.

Those vehicles had a higher margin for us

after reconditioning than any other used vehicle type

so far in 2025.

Interesting.

And what do you attribute that to?

Was it your ability to buy them right

from the correct source?

Was it your discipline in cost of recon?

Was it strong resell value?

Like where is the gain there relative to your ICE?

Well, I mean, that's an interesting question.

I think the answer kind of lies in,

if I'm out shopping for a 12 to $15,000 vehicle

for my needs for a college kid and whatever it is.

I mean, you're looking at Toyota Corollas

that are basic in equipment with 110,000 miles

that are rusty and kind of worn out.

And that's what we always expected.

That segment has gotten very expensive, right?

The affordable segment has gone away.

So I should believe both at that moment,

forget the EV part, right?

We're talking about cars that had 20, 30, 40,000 miles

because they paused in time for two or three years.

They have a warranty on their battery

that was eight years and 100,000

from the day it got its new battery

that have a lot of clocks reset

during our reconditioning process, right?

They have brand new tires, they've got,

everything is good to go

and have a one year warranty from General Motors.

And we could retail them net of the tax credit

for eight to $15,000.

And it was a segment that nobody else

really exploited in our market.

So I'll call it luck, right?

But it was identifying that segment.

You found that opportunity though

and that's part of what makes automotive great.

We found and defined the opportunity,

the difficulty when it started in January was

at any given day that you went into GM,

you know, fleet pool and started looking

there'd be 1200 volts.

So I'd sit down, you know, my staff famously knows this.

Sunday morning, I would get up earlier than my family,

go through that thousand bill to spreadsheet,

determine what they needed

and what their price points were,

identify 40 and, you know, buy 10.

And we would just do that, you know, every week.

So part of your success is identifying where those are

and acquiring them from unique and interesting sources.

Outside of GM and the special factory stuff,

are there any other sources

for those EVs particular auctions

or is a service drive where you're having success

acquiring those at a level where you can turn a profit?

Yes, and the answer is yes, all of those, right?

So we bought them from Mannheim and OVE,

we bought them from ACV, we bought them from the lane.

We do have, you know, buying center that buys them

like a Carvana acquiring them from the public

just in general broadly.

There were a lot of people

and there are a lot of people who own EVs

that are tech savvy, that are, you know,

all about speed and convenience.

So they are open to just selling their vehicle

and then making their next move.

Even if there is a sales tax component to that decision,

they want to be in control of that process.

There's a trend.

We were buying plenty of EVs

and the answer is because nobody else really wanted them

or was scared of them, right?

Or understood them.

Yeah, they didn't understand.

All the above, they kind of thought

it was catching a falling knife.

I mean, Tesla is a really good example.

Ooh, that's good.

My theory was turn them quick, you know,

get them in, price them below market.

And obviously we have the tools as an industry

to define what that looks like

and get off of them fast

because there were more opportunities.

It wasn't the same as going out and buying, you know,

the mythical three-year-old Toyota RAV4

with low miles that everybody wants

and we have to compete against to buy.

You know, I spent the morning at auction

before getting here and, you know,

we're $3,000 and $4,000 over MMR

for the segments in which dealers like me compete against.

So finding an area where the competition

really hasn't focused actually gave us a leg up

and increased our profit potentials.

And as long as we were smart about it,

we turned them quicker and for more money.

So do you think part of,

I want to go into F&I and again,

kind of a speed lightning round piece

because we don't want to run out of time.

We've got so many questions for you.

Do you think part of your success

has to do with the state you're in

where the state from a political environment

is a little forward thinking on EVs there.

Some manufacturers were only distributing EVs

only in Minnesota, right?

Whereas some other states are farther behind.

So maybe you're on that leading edge

and maybe you're sharing with our audience

something that will be a tool, a tip, a trick

over the next 30, 60, 90 days to capitalize on this market.

How much do you think geography plays into your success?

I think it's an easy harbinger.

I mean, I think it's easy to look at that and say.

It's different here, right?

I think the proof is a little bit in the pudding, right?

We are not the only, for example,

Cadillac dealership in Minnesota.

So why are we out performing

all the other Cadillac dealerships

so that are in the same market selling the same vehicles?

You've got a strategy.

I believe the answer is strategy, training, education,

ease of transaction.

We're meeting customers where they want to be.

Now, we are a one price strategy dealer group.

Our store is there as well.

And we think that does play a big role.

I mean, a very big role in

kind of derailing or letting people bring their guard down

and dive into the actual needs analysis

and listen to us rather than having your defense.

It's not about negotiating a price.

It's about understanding the value of the car,

which is part of your value proposition.

All right, let's walk us through.

Walk, let's just walk through

a few other departments before we lose you here

because we were getting a ton of comments out there.

For example, Lauren Klein says,

you can't have one or two EV specialists.

They all have to be well versed in it.

That's right, truth.

And there's, dealers have to invest in EV

and their people will, in their people to push it.

And then there's a few comments out there

that just say, EVs are dead,

which I gotta tell you, Eric,

I kind of resonate with what you're saying.

I think, we have been predicting for a long time

the crash in the used vehicle market.

It never materialized, even coming into COVID,

coming through COVID, coming out of COVID.

And I just feel, why do I feel like,

as it relates to EVs,

everybody's sick and tired of hearing of them.

I certainly am as well.

That the true market demand isn't off a cliff,

but it's somewhere short of

and things will normalize as rebates disappear,

but it's not gonna be complete death.

It'll be finding those opportunities.

All right, so take us into finance.

FNI, what FNI products are available in your world

on the EV side?

And what are you averaging per EV sold?

Sure, well, every product is available,

but it changes what it looks like, right?

So Tire and Wheel works very well.

Really everything does.

Maintenance doesn't, you can't do oil changes.

Prepaid maintenance is a challenge

because there is less maintenance,

but the importance of having that vehicle visit

the dealership again in a year and two years

is maybe more critical, right?

So how do you tie that customer back

to your service department?

If not for an oil change?

Yeah, looking at the product, looking at pricing

and just keep hitting the accelerator pedal

until something works that is compelling to bring them

back in.

And I do think that there is again, building value.

If you talk about why they need to come back

and get a tire rotation for an example, right?

Because EVs are gonna need them as well as any other vehicle

and let a factory train technician get underneath

and take a look under warranty

so that if something is developing,

we can take care of it is still as compelling

an argument for an EV as it is for a gas or a diesel.

Eric, who are you?

What branded service contractor

are you selling in the finance department

on your EV products?

In our world, we use CNA.

They do an incredible job.

United Car Care is also another provider

that we use in our world on used EVs.

What does Mori's use?

We have our own company, right?

So, you know, that's our own risk pool.

And believe me, it's a challenge.

I don't think that that's something that, you know,

is as defined or developed as it needs to be.

We also, with Cadillac have, you know,

General Motors, G&PP, and it is a challenge.

Believe me, we're not gonna see the penetration

at the same dollars that we saw.

But the area of opportunity for the rest of the products

and for the rest of the financial picture is there.

But believe me, when you talk about PVRs

and you talk about financial opportunities

for your FNI department, there's a pain point there.

There's friction for them,

especially if they're gauged

on the penetration of some of these products.

It is a challenge.

You just have to look at it as an operator and say,

you know, I have to develop gross dollars

that need to filter to the bottom line

and where is that happening?

So, before we let you go,

one last area to talk about, right?

You couldn't sell EVs into the marketplace

if you didn't have a good lead generation program in place.

So, you're buying these vehicles right,

you're servicing them right,

you're offering FNI products

that make sense in your world.

What is your best strategy as it relates

to marketing these vehicles?

Is there a particular digital lead provider that you're using?

Is there a particular approach to get the word out

about mores and the products that are available through you?

And the answer is it works no differently.

So, all the same lead providers

that work well for us in new vehicles,

in pre-owned vehicles,

work exactly the same whether it's an EV.

I mean, look, these are the same cars,

the propulsion system is different.

So, if we can build, you know, the old adage,

build value until it's greater than price,

if it works for people, people will buy it.

And this has been the case forever.

You know, dealers feel they can't sell

something profitably, whatever it is, a diesel,

a, you know, model that isn't as hot,

you've defined for yourself that you can't.

The last piece that I'll mention is, you know,

when I answered that,

we're talking about profitability at the top line,

but there's a whole lot more to it

and manufacturers proficiency programs

play a really big role.

I mean, this is a chess game.

So determining can I sell this type of vehicle

because the manufacturer finds it to be important

and maybe earn some hard to get product.

And some of it isn't black and white

and one-to-one and really trackable,

but manufacturers are our partners.

And so we need to kind of, you know,

listen to their drumbeat and get on board

and maximize our internal pay plan, right?

And that's some of those proficiency programs.

So the interesting point here, Eric,

about what you're talking about there is manufacturers

overproduced, you could argue some of the EVs

in anticipation of federal regulation

and government programs,

which pushed it and created rebates

and was making requirements.

So manufacturers put incentives

and did asks inventory for trades and all that

so that they didn't have a ton of the stuff sitting around.

What will be fascinating?

We want you back on the show in a year

to see whether it's proved out or not.

As those federal rebates pop away,

what is the real market demand for that inventory?

And yes, you've found great opportunity

between the lines of federal rebates and demand

and people that don't understand that market

you've capitalized.

When all that's gone, where will be the new opportunity?

And as someone in a state that's very forward-thinking

in the EV space and you've outpunted the market clearly

with your sales leading in multiple areas,

props to you, props to the entire Mori organization

for your results, your accomplishments.

Hopefully everyone has learned a few things I have.

Thank you, including how to find those opportunities.

So Eric Miller, director at Mori's Auto Group,

we appreciate you being on the show

and sharing your perspectives on all things EV

and thanks for posting, Eric, thank you.

Thanks, Eric.

Thanks for having me.

The clock is ticking, Yuli.

The clock is ticking.

We've got just 20 some odd days left

and EV rebates support will be gone

and then it will be fascinating to see

what that market looks like.

I do think the demand will be greater than some think

and it won't be as much as others.

Well, he said it.

We're gonna lose federal EV support,

but there's gonna be some type of support out there.

It's gonna come from the manufacturer

if they wanna get rid of those costs.

Yeah, yeah, but manufacturer support

only comes as a consequence of overproduction

and a lot of manufacturers in advance

of this rebate cutoff have stopped production, period.

So it'll be interesting to see where that middle is.

There may not be as much OEM support as we think.

All right, let's talk dealer pay.

Dealer pay designed to increase productivity

and customer retention.

Dealer pay is a dealer specific

payments acceptance solution

with over 25 years experience

as trusted payments partner

for dealerships across the United States.

Visit dealerpay, dealer-pay.com.

Again, that's dealer-pay.com to learn more

or you can click the QR code in the corner

to learn more about dealer pay

and the services that they offer.

We've got a fantastic industry spotlight episode out there

featuring dealer play and talking about surcharging.

So if you wanna learn more about that approach to it

props to dealer pay

for supporting the content on today's show.

Thank you.

All right, let's jump to our next guest.

And actually this is a fascinating conversation

when we think about things that are up and coming

things that have been

and where you find opportunity between those lines.

Welcome to the show CEO of Tomah,

Monique Pamech.

Oh no, I ruined the name.

Monique.

Will you tell me how to pronounce your last name,

Monique, I apologize.

Yeah, it's Pomecha.

And I think it happened to you as well last time

when we were speaking.

Thank goodness.

Flashback.

Thank goodness.

Well, Monique, will you write out the gate,

just tell us how biz is from your perspective

and then tell us a little bit

about who you are and what you do.

Yeah, so I am the founder and CEO of Tomah

and we build AI agents for our dealerships,

the automated communication over voice and text

that is inbound and outbound.

So that's what we do.

You know, how is biz?

Biz has been really, really busy.

That's what biz has been,

I think since our last appearance on the show,

actually, this is in June sometime, I think.

I think I have like three updates, really big ones.

One is, you know, we've gotten so much adoption

from, you know, the smallest groups

to the largest public groups.

And it's been a little surprising

because I initially thought like when we were even

building the product and talking to our customers,

that they probably want to like pilot it

and they want to like slowly roll it out.

But it seems like there seems to be a trend in place

where dealers are going for it.

They want to get all the stores at once.

And it seems like there is this growing confidence

in the technology itself.

And I think maybe it's because of,

there's a cultural shift, right?

Like if you call the pharmacy,

you call the hospital,

like you're getting the agents everywhere.

So there's this growing level of comfort,

you know, with the consumers by default,

you know, like everybody expects that to be the case.

So I think that may, you know, that's a source of confidence.

Then the second thing is,

which I think is a little surprising as well.

We built the product thinking that people, you know,

it's for people who don't want to have anything

to do with AI, for example, right?

I don't want to touch it.

I don't want to see it let it do its thing.

It turns out there is this class of employees

we're seeing within the dealership

who are really savvy.

So, you know, I'm sure there are people

who don't want to touch it and change it,

but then there are these employees who are like,

what did your support?

Like when I requested this change, they did something.

Can you give me access to make that change myself?

And then they, you know, we actually built this feature

and don't really is like, you know, savvy user

and you turn it on for them

and then they can basically see the full products

so they can make changes to these AI agents,

how they talk, what they sound like.

And they're like building these new use cases

that we didn't think were possible

because they have a knowledge, you know, of the workflow.

So it is very interesting to see that

and we've seen more and more of that over time.

So I think that was a little surprising

and we started building around that

and it's natural that people who are doing that,

their agents and, you know,

their dealerships actually just perform better.

So maybe, you know, I think the last time

the conversation was like,

oh, is they are gonna take jobs?

Like we're definitely seeing this creation

of a new type of a job within the dealership.

Like this one person that everybody goes to

to talk about, hey, this new thing came out

like you think we should use it

and they'll be like, here, give it to me.

And then they like make some changes

and it kind of works.

So tell us from your perspective, it's interesting.

Automotive I think has been a very slow adopter

of certain technology and AI is one of those, you know,

we've interviewed a bunch of dealers on this show

and some dealers have leaned into it

in BDC and other areas.

Others have said, look, we don't fully understand it yet.

We don't fully trust it yet.

And so we're still very much doing

a lot of those operations manually.

You're saying you're seeing a difference

that that tide has shifted.

What do you attribute that change to

and why is that happening right now

when automotive was slow to adopt initially?

I think, I don't know.

I never felt that way because the reason

we were actually in healthcare and banking

when we started the company,

we pivoted-

Healthcare might be slower, yeah.

We pivoted to auto because we obviously thought dealers

were more, you know, for lack of better word,

risk-taking, I think, because they want the reward, right?

I think it continues to be the case.

But as I mentioned, the first point

was still the cultural aspect

that it's just happening all around you

so you cannot ignore it.

And the second thing is like you're seeing it work.

Like if you talk to five people,

there are probably two people who say,

oh, this changed my life.

You know, in some ways or the other.

So let me ask you another question.

You specialize in the voice AI,

which I think is fascinating, right?

Everybody that's ever called up an 800 number

like an airline got stuck on the voice AI.

The older version is awful.

And you can't press zero as much

and as often as you need to to get out of it.

The new is pretty slick and cool.

But dealers tell us that, hey, voice is cool.

It's novel.

But how does it practically integrate

into the dealer operation?

So if you want to use it in service for scheduling

or sales to help answer,

like walk us through the practical integration

of that tool into dealer operations.

Okay.

So we'll pick a more complex use case.

Let's say somebody wants to book a recall, right?

Where you need to check if the part is available, right?

So there are a couple of steps.

So first is there are certain places

where that information is within your system.

Or maybe it's in your inventory.

Maybe it's in separate software, let's say it's A, B and C.

So when you call, the first thing is

you need to understand what the context is.

You know why the customer is calling.

You get all that information.

Next thing is, okay, let me figure out

what I need to know from my side

to answer that question correctly, right?

Which is, oh, if you're calling for a recall,

let me check if the part is available.

Then you can hit that integration

or wherever that is, get that information.

Then move the conversation to next step.

So it's basically a step-by-step process,

much similar to how humans operate,

which is let me find where that information is

to move to the next step.

I grab that information, I let the customer know

and the customer chooses, what do I do with that?

And then you make a decision.

So it's this ping-pong, right?

But I think it all involves

getting more and more context over time

so that you can fulfill whatever the customer's desire is.

And every conversation is that.

Like even our conversation right now,

like I'm just looking it up in my brain

and my experiences to pull that, right?

Just stream where I'm throwing things in

and you're pulling things out,

like that's basically what it is.

Yeah, so for the dealers that looked at Voice AI,

let's say six months ago or a year ago

and just said, hey, it's not quite there yet.

What's happened over the past 90 days,

let's say, or six months

that has helped this to become better

where I could actually put this in front of my customers

and feel confident that they're gonna have a good experience.

Yeah, I think two things.

One is it has started sounding more natural.

It feels very realistic.

And I think there is a term,

I think it was called anthromorphizing

or something like that where, you know,

you get a rope off.

Anthromorphizing, I don't know if that's right,

but that's a cool word, I like it.

But what that word is is that a robot,

you know it's a robot,

but it looks and feels like a human, right?

So you cannot help but engage with it like a human does

because it's just your natural tendency.

So that's what's happening with the voice piece

where it's like sounding so real and it's behaving.

You know, it's like having these like filler words

and it's like stopping, laughing, emotional, that stuff.

Second thing is it's actually becoming smarter

or let's say less dumb, where it gets you.

You know, like when you said something like two times,

it will recognize that and I see that you said it twice,

you know, and then, you know,

you don't understand that it needs to address

something with urgency or not.

So I think there's this overall model improvements

that are just helping increase conversion rates,

for example, right?

But stuff that was 50%, maybe six months ago

is now at 65, 70, 80% depending on the use case.

So if you have a dealer that's listening to this show right now

and they're like, hey, I like the idea of this.

And I think part of the strategy

has got to be so many of our employees

have never had a really great phone conversation

with anyone, right?

Like we're so used to texting nowadays.

We're so used to emailing and messaging and Snapchatting

and being on all the social media platforms.

Some folks just aren't as comfortable on the phone.

If I said, hey, I want to enhance my operations

by having this voice AI capability,

where would you recommend a dealer

that's never done anything with voice AI?

Where would they start?

Where's the best first use case

for a technology like this?

Just to caveat, like we also do like automation

over text as well.

So the same conversation that happens over voice,

you can chat like there are certain dealers

that we have where they have a number

where you can just text that number

and talk to them about booking appointments,

getting status updates, all of that in one place.

But let's say if you were,

you just want to use voice AI on the service side,

that's helpful.

So the two use cases, inbound and outbound,

pretty much any use case that you have

is inbound on the parts counter on,

that's simple thing.

If you have a wholesale parts operation,

you could put the AI there to get orders

and to make sure that they're checking status

on some order or they're putting a new order in,

you can grab all of that.

On the service side, obviously,

for getting booking appointments, pricing hours,

all of those things.

On the sales side, after hours,

where people are calling in to check inventory

like post 8 p.m. or on the weekends,

like you have it on the lot.

What are, if you wanted to put in like financing,

like, you know, what is my payment

gonna look like roughly?

Or if you wanted to use car acquisition,

that we, you know,

you can do vehicle evaluations on the call itself.

So I mean, I just threw like five,

six use cases over right now,

but there are a lot of places like,

because these agents, they,

the AI does not distinguish between use cases.

It sees the whole thing as one task, right?

Because you could ask five things on the same call

and it will do it for you.

So that's the format really.

Monica, quick question for you.

So we've talked a lot about, you know,

the customer experience and what the customer is going

to see or feel when they're interacting with the AI.

But how do you solve for what I think

is the biggest hurdle with adoption in the dealership,

like getting the adoption from the employees

in the individual departments.

How do you get employees bought off, yeah?

So I think the way our onboarding works, for example,

is that we have a process of teaching the agent

where the employees are actually involved

in evaluating the output of it.

So they see everything.

We don't try to hide what's happening.

We go up front and we're like here,

call it 20 times or you see the first 20 calls

that happened and you slowly roll it out.

You don't start taking all of the calls at once.

You start with like, let's take 10% and let's assess that.

So the employees see it working.

When you're saying see it working,

is this like a separate portal that you've created

that the users are working into?

They get email updates if they want that

or they can log into the dashboard,

listen to every single call if they want.

They can see what happened and they even get flagged

on like, oh, this AI call pissed the customer off.

So we flag it to them, they see it,

and then they usually have a suggestion.

They're like, instead of doing this, how about you do that?

So I think the way they're brought in

is because it is a process that involves them.

They are making the changes to the agent, right?

And I think that is the future

where I think that savvy employee thing

that I was mentioning, like you see more of them

and they'll be the experts of training this thing.

So they come in and they're like, I don't want to do,

let's change this, let's make it this way.

So I think-

Monic, if I'm a dealer listening to this show,

hearing what you're saying,

and I look across my show and floor

and there's nobody that's kind of that expert,

is there a path to learning more as an employee in the deal?

Because I agree with you,

like a subject matter expert

that can help guide others through it is super important.

What advice would you give to that person

that like wants to learn more,

become that subject matter expert,

gain value by becoming that expert?

What advice would you give them?

To do that.

I wish there was something I could say

where I take this course

or go to university or do that.

Chat GPT, chat GPT.

Yes.

Got to play with it.

Exactly.

The best thing is like-

Got to play with it.

How did your best salesman like,

where did they learn how to be good at sales?

Buy-

They sell.

Yeah, just trying.

Right, so anytime you work with tools

that actually let you do things,

see the feedback of it

and like, you know, have that virtuous loop,

then you can learn something.

Otherwise, if it's like, you know,

a brick and you just look at it

and it's good and bad

and that's it, that's the end.

All right, unfortunately,

we're almost out of time.

We got to keep going.

But I understand you had a couple of questions

for us as it relates to voice AI.

Like, at best almost.

We got a couple of minutes left.

What you got?

Let's do rapid fire.

So I'm going to ask you.

So we've done like thousands of calls

and you know, I have answers to these based on data,

but I love to see what you think.

Okay, so we have AI phone calls all the time.

The question is what,

and from the perspective of conversions, okay,

do you think a male voice converts more or a female voice?

Female.

That's correct.

It is female and by a huge margin.

Like, I don't know what it is, but it works.

The second thing is,

do you think a formal tone works more

or a casual tone works more for conversion?

Casual.

Female, casual, British accent.

We have some Australian ones, but casual.

Actually, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

So that was a little surprising.

I thought casual too.

The third one is, do you think having background noise

actually helps convert customers more

or if it's just, you know, like silent

and, you know, just not, not...

Background noise because you want authenticity,

you want reality.

I think it's like 60, 40, yeah.

So there's like a slight, you know, increase

and like if it's background noise,

people actually engage more.

This is a tricky one.

So do you think telling, like, you know,

when you open the call and you straight say like,

hey, you're talking to an AI

or, you know, you're just not saying that

and you just engage with the customer as is, right?

I think engage as is.

I appreciate when they say it's AI

so you know exactly what you're doing

and I like that better.

Yeah, I think for transparency,

but I think for conversion,

I think it's better the customer doesn't know.

I think you probably have pushback if you divulge.

Well, surprising answer is people don't care.

It's about the same.

Yeah, interesting.

I don't know what it,

and then I think the final one would be,

do you think AI calls end up being longer

than regular calls or shorter than, you know,

if humans were taking the call?

Shorter.

Yeah, for me, it would absolutely be shorter

because I get frustrated with like,

nothing's more aggravated.

That's a use of smashing zero.

Yeah, nothing's more aggravating

than calling an airline and just getting lunacy, right?

Like I think AI agents are much faster more.

You know, here's what I want one day.

I want my own AI agent

that will make all the calls do all the things

and represent me.

Like I don't want to call the airline.

I don't want to...

Like Google does that, by the way.

I think on Google Maps, certain business,

like restaurants, it can make the...

Really?

Yeah, it can make...

So many times we're getting AI calls right now.

It's kind of, it's mind-blowing.

There are certain apps that do that,

but like, you know...

I want in on that.

I want in on that because...

It's coming.

Because one day I don't want to ever

have to pick up a phone or type out a text

or type out an email.

I just want to say what I need

and then let my agent go out and work for me.

That's the power of AI at some point.

How long, Monik, as we wrap today,

last question, how long before that happens?

It is happening, right now.

Yeah, the speed of AI evolution,

adoption and integration voice

and otherwise is astounding.

So Monik, Pamechka, I got so close.

Thank you for being on the show today

and sharing your perspectives.

Absolutely fascinating, this industry.

Thank you for being on CO and Tomah.

All right, thank you guys.

That's what I want.

I just need an AI agent that'll go out

and just do it all for me.

Do your things for you, make the calls.

Yes. Yeah, I'm with you.

Yes. Yeah, it's coming.

And then think about...

So this is what's interesting.

People are so worried about losing jobs.

There are elements of all of our jobs

that just do not inspire us,

do not give us energy, do not excite us.

And so much of it has to do with those things

that are just mundane.

Let me, instead of me calling

to make that airline reservation,

I want to call the car dealership guy, Yossi,

and have a great conversation with him.

Call the CEO of my company, Aaron,

and have a great conversation with him.

I don't want to sit on hold for an airline

or a hotel or a restaurant or anything else.

That's the key.

So if anyone, but he has that tool,

I want you on this show

because we'd love to hear you.

But until then, next up,

we turn to Matthew Groudy, Groudy.

Groudy.

At The Change Optimist.

Welcome to the show, Groudy.

How are you?

Hey, I'm good.

Thanks for having me.

Welcome.

By the way, before we ask you how's biz,

we must acknowledge your nine-inch nails hat

because I was just listening to...

Now we all have to go back to the 1990s for this,

but I was on a bike ride recently,

nine-inch nails,

had like a whole classic song,

very dark, but an incredible piece of musical talent.

Did you go to the concert?

I did.

So they're on tour right now.

I wouldn't miss it.

So they were in Toronto just two weeks ago.

It was spectacular.

Probably the best show.

Best nine-inch nails concert I've ever seen.

Wait, okay.

But you're not saying best concert ever.

You're leaving it within nine-inch nails.

Correct.

I'm reading that.

But well, so the best concert ever for me

probably also included nine-inch nails

and that was Lollapalooza 91.

Oh, nice.

Lollapalooza, yeah.

All right, we're going to go down.

We'll end up down a complete five...

We'll go down that rabble hole later

because I agree with you, concerts are awesome

and I would love to see nine-inch nails

at some point someday.

But before we go into that, how's biz,

and as part of that, tell us a little bit about yourself

and what you do in the world.

Right, what do I do?

I mean, business is good.

I cover a lot of bases,

so I'm a little all over the place.

But I was talking to someone recently

and they were kind of going on and on and on

about why is the automotive industry

so difficult and backwards

and I stopped them halfway through their spiel

and I just said, dude, this is why you have a job.

Like this is...

I'm like, for as long as you want to work

in this industry, you're going to be able to work

because there's definitely work to do.

There are questions to answer.

There's technology solutions that are needed.

There is improvements in marketing.

So I would stop complaining and just go do the work.

Yeah, embrace it.

So I'm fascinated right out the bat

with something in your bio here

and I don't know if you're okay.

Like, you worked with Google Auto.

You were the Google Auto lead in Canada.

Tell us what that means

and what was Google doing in automotive?

And I'm just curious what some of the lessons

we can learn from that

as you think about Amazon and some of these other entities

that are large that are out there trying to go to the market.

I mean, so Google is...

There are many heads at Google.

Google is like the Hydra.

It's like Hydra in the market.

Cut off one head to grow back.

So I worked...

I got hired as an account executive

in the automotive ad sales team.

I worked initially with Ford

as kind of a dedicated account rep for a period of time.

Over a number of years,

I also worked with Honda and Kia.

And then I came back from a meeting

with Ford dealers one time

and I basically came back to the office and I said,

I think we're screwing up how we manage the dealer business.

I didn't use the word screwing.

I used a different word.

And they were like, great,

put a business plan together

and tell us why we should address it differently.

And thankfully,

there was already a bit of a model built in the US

to do this,

but I built a team within the team

that just worked with dealers

to try and focus on auto retail

as a different segment

and get out in the field,

get to know senior leaders

that all of the largest auto groups in Canada

work with some of the other auto retail players

like the Canadian equivalents of Carvana.

So Canada Drives, Clutch, et cetera.

And try and, as I described it,

deliver the gospel according to Google to car dealers.

Yeah.

So that was...

And that got me out into the wild a lot

and that got me a lot of profile.

And it meant I got to go to a lot of presentations

and drop a lot of F-bombs

and build a bit of a reputation

as the foul mouthed Googler out in the wild.

And let me see a lot of what was going on

across the country.

So unfortunately,

we've got just a short amount of time left

and I want to be super efficient.

So you consult and work with dealer groups

in a whole bunch of different areas.

Marketing is one of your areas of focus.

What are a couple of the biggest mistakes

dealers make today in the marketing space

and how could they quickly fix that

in September of 2025 to become more efficient,

generate or more revenue, become more profitable?

Man, we don't have enough time.

It's a long list.

I mean, I do...

When specifically when I think about Google,

this is also true in Meta and other,

it's that all of those platforms are now so

data specific, it sounds redundant to say that,

but the two things that almost everyone gets wrong

or doesn't do to the extent that they should

is that their conversions are broken.

So they're not recording their leads properly

or they're not recording the phone calls properly or...

How do you fix that?

That's a longer question, a longer answer.

But I'll give it to you.

And or based on their budget,

regardless of what market they're in,

they're optimizing to too many conversions.

So because your budget can only be split so many ways.

How do you fix it?

So you either need a vendor that's super cooperative

that knows how to implement

and build that tracking capabilities.

If you don't have that or you don't trust them

for whatever reason,

then you're gonna need like a qualified third party

to kind of come in and do that work.

There's a bunch of consultancies that just focus on,

say Google Analytics Optimization and conversion tracking,

and especially when it comes down to all of the widgets,

like for every iFrame and button that opens

in a different window that pulls data

from a different service,

that gets trickier to actually track as a conversion

if you wanna optimize your media spend to it.

But you've gotta get that right

because both Google and Meta are both conversion

and value obsessed.

So if you don't have that foundation set up properly,

nothing else is gonna work

and you're just gonna be spending bad money after bad.

And I see that all over the place.

I get random calls all the time

where a dealer will call me and say,

like this account will not spend.

And I'm like, well, that shouldn't be the objective.

Like when we'd be spending to some sort of goals,

some sort of conversion point,

and then I'll dig into the account,

they'll give me access to the account

and I'll see, oh, you're all of your conversion set

is fudged.

So that's number one.

And then the rest is the,

I kinda knew you'd ask this question,

that Google changes things too quickly.

And I think even if you've got a,

you're working with a certified vendor

and your certified OEM program,

there's a good chance that they don't know

or haven't been taught or aren't,

on top of the latest and greatest changes

that Google and Meta and down the line,

Pinterest, TikTok, et cetera.

Give us an example of a recent change

and we're gonna extend just a few minutes here,

but give us an example of a recent change Google made

that makes it difficult to stay up to date on that one.

The biggest one, well, and it cuts both ways

because they will change something,

make fanfare about it,

and then the broader recommendation is don't do it yet.

So that's how everybody figures it out, right?

Right, so one is like,

so they made a lot of noise earlier this year about AI Max

and arguably that product in Google ads is,

it's too new.

It's not great for branded OEM vendors,

like for OEM dealers,

because it'll start bidding all over the place

and you won't have control of the keywords.

And so without putting some other controls in place,

that can be very problematic.

Though the biggest one, again,

it goes back to conversions

because Google had a way to import clicks a few years ago

and then they changed that technology

and they rebranded and re-released that product

called Enhanced Conversions.

And Enhanced Conversions was built to be a tool

to allow Google to see into traffic

coming from iOS and Safari,

because iOS and Safari are shutting down

other providers, other third-party tracking,

other third-party cookies.

So Enhanced Conversions is how Google models its data

to try and look at the clickstream to understand

what are those visitors doing and in Canada and the US,

that's like half the traffic is coming from iOS and Safari.

So if that's not enabled, then you're, again,

your conversion setup is probably messed up

and you're probably spending money

in ways you probably shouldn't.

So if you're a single-point dealer

sitting at your store right now

thinking about your marketing plan,

how do you stay on top of all of this?

Like, that's not easy.

How do I know this?

How do I, is there a blog?

Is there a forum?

I mean, obviously hang out here

because this is a 20 group and you'll learn here,

but how do I stay on top of those changes

so I don't miss efficiency with dollar spend

and digital ads?

I mean, I have a kind of an unconventional answer

that I give now when I talk about that

in a dealer meeting or a dealer setting

and that's that there is now this growing population

of Google ads experts on LinkedIn

and I have a list of them

and I say just go follow these people.

Because-

How do we find that list?

I can share it with you after.

Yeah, I'll share it with you after.

And some of them are my former Google colleagues

who are doing a bang up job

and staying on top of this stuff

and then talking about it

because it's their business.

They've-

Product awareness.

Yeah.

It's kind of like,

if you and your agency can't call Google directly

like calling five people who used to work at Google

might be the next best thing.

Yeah, okay.

Next question,

because we want to get as much info as we can

that dealers can use today

when they think about their digital ad spend,

their marketing campaign.

What's one metric that most dealers overate

and what's one that we should look at instead?

So what's the most overrated

and what's something we should look at?

I don't know.

There is a lot of noise about VDP views.

Like there's so much noise about VDP views

and I get that that's a useful metric

but it frustrates me when again

I see that somebody is spending money

optimizing to that metric.

And usually that's an indication to me

that whoever the ad provider was

wasn't able to drive leads and phone calls

and so they picked a more lower hanging fruit metric.

And so that I find frustrating in the wild

and kind of push against.

Why is VDP views so misleading?

Because it's just traffic without an action, right?

Correct.

I mean, it's useful and if there was no other data

like I think there was a time not so long ago

call it five or six years ago

where Google and Meta wanted more data

to optimize campaigns.

And so if that was the conversion you could get

it was a reasonable signal.

It was a reasonable starting point

but both tools both ad platforms are now better able

using AI in the background to make a determination

to get you a phone call, get you a lead form fill

without having to use kind of those vanity metrics

in between anymore.

But to answer your other question

it's simple is then anytime I mentioned this

people are like what's a conversion

but it's the cost per like it's then you're

I don't like to go to return on ad spend.

I think return on ad spend is very valuable

if you were a consumer e-commerce

or regular retail not auto retail client

where you're selling t-shirts

or electronics or books online

then that's a lot easier to calculate

but where we have this disconnected process

the return on ad spend is not as useful.

Usually it's just let's focus on what conversions we're getting

let's focus on what the cost per conversion is.

So Lauren Klein is coming in saying abandonment rate.

Yes I mean it depends on how you're again

with the way that Google now allows you to build your own events

and customize your own events

that can be what is abandonment

but and it's there's a funny conversation around

like say bounce rate because

and I used to use the example that you know

in the universe of Google they want the highest possible

Google wants the highest possible bounce rate on google.com

because it meant you found the thing you want and you went there

right so depending on how your website is built

bounce can mean or abandonment can mean different things

if you're talking abandonment in the in the notion of a funnel

or in the notion of like a process flow

then yes you can use like you know cart ads

or digital retail checkout as a pretty strong signal

but again in my for my money I would I would log that more as a secondary conversion

and focus on the end goal focus on okay all right so again in that

lightning round of vein last question up actually two last two last questions

what's the most valuable first party signal

the dealer should activate now and what is a first party signal

well I mean first party data is your own data and this was the other thing I was

going to say what I started done this path and then I stopped

and that so the other thing that dealers are consistently not doing well

is they're not activating on the run serum data in meta and in

Google right so Google wants you they call it customer match they call it

audience in in meta but to to get that data out of your

CRM and then into those platforms even if you're

not optimizing to it at least gives the platform a signal to say hey this is what

our buyers have looked like in the past let's go find

more of those people so super powerful the other audience signal

that is super powerful and there's a bunch of ways to skin this cat

in Google audiences is what did people search before

or what was the adjacent you can build segments based on

search behavior and then you can say okay let's

like you know let's see if people are searching for that for my competitors

name for my competitor dealership name down the road

and let's use that as part of an audience strategy

well Matthew Groudy Groud consultant the change optimist we appreciate you

joining sharing your perspectives last question is where is nine-inch nails

performing next I don't know I mean they're

all over the US it's it's funny the updates come to me

fast and curious on YouTube and Instagram

because now people are posting you know full version HD versions of every show

I'm not sure I think they end in LA I think their last show is in LA

it is fun to see as some of these bands that we all grow you know I'm

50 you know I grew up on nine-inch nails the cure

Oingo Boingo all these bands it's fun to see they are so old now they're

just on their sunset tour their last glory tour and it's

fun to go see them and watch them so we'll have to connect on all that

I didn't see it but Oasis was in town here just that's true yeah

in Chicago too actually they came through

they've done a an entire tour in the Midwest as well

so anyway thanks we appreciate you being on the show thanks for being here

thanks for having me thank you I actually heard about Oasis

and I had to google it because I don't know Oasis as well as some of these

others but music is definitely a passion and something fun to watch so

good show today huh great show yeah always I

I am gonna be super interested to see what happens to EV's

October of 2025 yeah and what does the demand curve really look like without

any support behind it yeah I'm gonna bet it doesn't fall off

the cliff everybody's worried about because so

so little actually does I think OEM's a pulled-back production

they've modified behavior and I think there's going to be some sort of a norm

and then hybrids are going to continue to climb

yeah in in percent sales so that'll be fun that'll be fun to watch

so I agree really great show thanks for doing the show today

and to our audience thanks you thank you for watching The Daily Deal Alive

today where we break down the biggest moves in the car business

as they happen don't forget we're here every Monday Wednesday and we'll

be back again this Friday so if this is your world

be sure to hit like be sure to hit subscribe be sure to turn on those

notifications so you never ever miss a beat and

everybody out there we'll see you next episode see you Friday

see you guys

About this episode

The episode dives into the evolving landscape of the automotive industry, focusing on electric vehicle (EV) profitability, AI adoption, and dealer inefficiencies. Guests Eric Miller discusses the profitability of EVs, countering the belief that they are unprofitable, while Monique Pamech highlights the growing acceptance of AI in dealerships for customer interactions. Matthew Groudy emphasizes the importance of accurate conversion tracking in digital marketing. The conversation reveals insights on adapting to market changes and leveraging technology to enhance dealership operations.

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Original notes

Today's show features: Eric Miller, Director at Morrie's Auto Group Monik Pamecha, CEO of Toma Mathew Growden, Consultant This episode is brought to you by: Dealer Pay – Designed to increase, productivity and customer retention, Dealer Pay is a "dealer-specific' payments acceptance solution with over 25 years of experience as a trusted payments partner for dealerships across the US. Visit ⁠https://dealer-pay.com/⁠ to learn more. Toma – If your BDC or Service Advisors are buried in calls, it’s time for a smarter solution. Toma builds custom AI agents that answer 100% of your dealership’s inbound calls and handle tasks like booking service, checking recalls, and scheduling test drives—without tying up your team. Dealers using Toma are saving 30–40 staff hours a week and booking 100+ extra appointments every month. Exclusive for CDG Listeners: Start your no-risk, 1-month free trial at http://toma.com/cdg Car Dealership Guy is back with our second annual NADA Party—happening in Las Vegas on Thursday, February 5th. It’s the hottest ticket at NADA 2026. Spots are limited and unfortunately we can't invite everyone —so RSVP today at https://carguymedia.com/cdglive and we hope to see you in Vegas! - Check out Car Dealership Guy’s stuff: CDG News ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://news.dealershipguy.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CDG Jobs ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://jobs.dealershipguy.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CDG Recruiting ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.cdgrecruiting.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My Socials: X ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.twitter.com/GuyDealership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/cardealershipguy/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@guydealership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/cardealershipguy/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Threads ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@cardealershipguy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook ➤ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100077402857683⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Everything else ➤⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ dealershipguy.com