Most Bang For Your Buck in 2025 | Ep 72 | Drive Torque Podcast

Hey, we're all here, let's just start. I'll start. Hey, guys, welcome back to the drive-talk

podcast, powered by Michelin. Here we are sat round, like, waiting for the gun. I went on

the B of bang.

Sounds like you're going to be cheating, like, our challenge later, as well, from what you've

said so far.

No, I just may have misunderstood the challenge just a little bit. That's pretty good form

for me, to be fair.

I think that's what makes our challenges so good, is we all interpret them slightly different,

and PED interprets it completely different, because he only reads about half of the brief.

That's not true. I've won quite a few of them recently. Thank you, Mr Achilles, just saying.

You have, actually. Yeah, because you were dreadful to start with the sum of your...

Yeah, let's talk about how dreadful I am for now. Let's wait till the end to see

how badly I've won this challenge. So, we have a challenge coming. Now, as Pat set the

challenge, maybe you should tell everybody what the challenge is towards the second

half of this podcast after we've done our updates.

Sure. So, I wanted us to all go away and investigate on the classifieds how to get

the most horsepower for your money. So, we all love fast cars and going as fast

as possible, and our horsepower is a big part of that. So, interestingly, with the

electric market and the kind of IC, you know, traditional engine market, there's

a lot of cars you can now buy with a lot of horsepower for very cheap. Are they

reliable? Would you want to buy one? I don't know, but we've all come up with a

few options, and we're going to work out the cost per horsepower. The lower

that number, the better. Quite literally bang for your buck.

There you go, yeah. Yeah. It will spark for your buck.

If we were in German, we could have spark for your mark. Well, three euro,

obviously. Just a few years late for that one. But before we do that, everybody

needs to know the latest in AmiGate. Patrick, have you got your Ami back?

I do have my Ami back. It arrived back Saturday, so I got back up holiday

Friday. It's now Tuesday. I got it on Saturday, and it looks brand new. The

wheels look brand new. There's no rust anywhere. The bolts have been replaced.

The interior's lovely, apart from the screen, which is slightly dim on one side,

but apparently that's a common feature. It's a feature. But no,

delivered it, looks brilliant. Everything is you'd expect. I received the

accessory pack as well for free, which is very kind of them. However, some of

the accessories don't connect or work because there's missing threads or

connectors. There's bolts and parts that come with these accessories with

instructions, but they have nowhere to connect. So it's an ongoing, there's a

few more emails to be sent. Let's put it that way.

But one thing, I think some of those accessories, that's part of their

features. Yeah, it's a feature. Oh, yeah, yeah. So the OBD port or its

potential wireless accessory pack, that's a feature for not working.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then the Bluetooth button on the

steering wheel that's meant to open like a special AMI play app on your

phone doesn't work on iPhones because you have to press on a notification to

open the app. So that that doesn't feel like a feature. Yeah, yeah. And

then not having the threads on the bottom of the dashboard bar for

the for the back or the net. Oh, what do you want? I mean, it

sounds like you're expecting a brand new car for Christ's sake. I mean,

that's just, you know, the sad thing is, right, is, is we're all

going, wow, he's got his car. It's how it should have been like six

weeks ago. Yeah, 40 days, 40 days from when I got it delivered to

then giving it back, it went back to them for a month. And now I've

got it back. So I'm happy of the condition of the vehicle. It

drives exactly the same. That's brilliant. Yeah, we've got

there in the end as much as they didn't want to do

everything they did apart from the screen. And yeah, the accessories

pack thing is just like confusing to me. I don't understand that

one. But they've had another email. So they've got four more

things to try and accomplish, whether they can send me the

bolts for the or the nuts for the bolts or however it connects,

I don't know. But but yeah, that is the final update on the

army. You do

realize there's someone, sorry, there's someone there's someone

sitting right there sat there for four or five weeks ago, they

were like, Oh, yes, we send out all those old shitters from from

the

s

all them rusty old cars, some mugs have bought them. And then

literally now they're going, that guy, Patrick wheeling, he's

just cost us an absolute to refit them all and sell them

out as new cars. How

I did I yeah, I've had some more revealing information as

well that kind of goes to explain a lot of this. So

Citroen sent out an email to a bunch of Ami customers who

haven't received their cars yet, who are await awaiting extended

PDIs. And as part of that, they said that they had sold 150

Ami. So that was selling out of the previous generation was an

additional 150. So let's assume that there was maybe 1000 in

total that have been sold since they came out in the UK

in what 2021. And then the other thing was speaking to

the delivery driver. And he said, because he didn't know

my situation, he just assumed my car was being delivered

for the first time. He's like, Oh, you're lucky, your one's

clean. And I was like, Oh, are they not normally clean? And

he's like, Well, like loads of people got let go of this

company, they've downscaled staff, but obviously the work as

with all companies these days, the workers stayed the same. But

they've downscaled the amount of people they have either fired

them made the redundant whatever. And so he's like,

yeah, they don't even bother cleaning them anymore, they

just put number plates on them and send them out. He's

like what I do is because he's the guy who delivers all of

the press ones as well to motor shows and stuff. And he

says, what I normally do is I clean them on the way to his

delivery and I just charge back to Citroen. Because they're a

third party company in this, they're obviously contracted by

Citroen to receive the cars at port, store them, PDI them,

deliver them. Yeah, I thought that was rather revealing, as

usual, with a large company, they've decided to reduce the

workforce and keep the workload the same. And that means

things like washing the car doesn't become a priority,

which seems crazy.

So to be fair, we had guessed that that they just stuck

some number plates on it and sent it to it.

Yeah. But now they're doing extended PDI, as you said, so

there's someone that sounds they're going, yep, that's got

rust on it. Yep, that's got rust on it.

But I've seen I've I've seen I've seen a few so what alongside

this email I've seen from other people, is they're

sending photos of the condition of the vehicle prior to

delivery. And they're saying, this is your car, would you

like it or not? And that's the pictures are I've seen

and I'll try and find one and put up on screen. Now, it's

not rust that they're showing as a big issue. It's the fact

that it's like discoloured bodywork, as in the blue

plastic is discoloured. And it's like, it looks like it's

been near like a fireplace or something, which is odd. So

yeah, I don't think it's over for them yet. But

So just for anyone that's outside the UK, every March

and September, we get a new registration in the UK. So

you can basically tell how old a car is by its

registration, unless it's got a private plate. We're in

September now. So obviously yours is a 75 plate car. Oh,

no, that's right. It'd be 25 plate car. So you've just

you finally got your brand new car in September. It's

actually, it's actually on a 25 plate, but actually was

built in 2022.

Anyway, listen, don't decide I'm glad that you've got your new

car. And also, part of what we're doing in this episode with

the challenge, whilst I was trawling through AutoTrader

and other online sites, I did notice that, as you've

mentioned before, Pat, Amis are holding their value

well. In fact, you can find like two or three year old

ones for five grand, whether they're selling for that or

not. I don't know. But there's one I saw that it said only

six and a half thousand miles and it's a 22 plate for five

grand, right? So and you paid less than that for yours. I'm

brand new for four and a half, four and a half. And and

then when I read a lot of miles for an Ami, how do you

do six and a half thousand miles in an Ami? I've

literally been driving it nonstop since they picked

up in 2022. But anyway, so at least I guess there's that

side of it. And I know none of that bothers you. But

anyway, I'm glad to see on your socials that you've got

your car and I can't wait for you to take me for a

drive in it. In fact, I can't wait to have a little

driver myself. Can you imagine? I'd sort of see a

picture of Joe sat in an Ami. It looked like it looked

like Donkey Kong. I think you'd be surprised just

how much space there is in the inside. I think both

of you actually, because my flatmate six foot four

and he's on the insurance and he drives it

because it's here at the flat. And I was worried

like, oh yeah, is he even going to be able to drive

this thing? Because no, it's actually quite spacious

inside. He doesn't have a problem. Pete, your

long legs might be a little bit more of a problem.

But how many horsepower does it have, Pat? I

actually have no idea. Do I need to Google that?

Joe, did you find out when you were looking

it up? No, no, I just want to use this as

our benchmark to see what the cost per horsepower

is for your Ami. It's eight, eight brake horsepower.

Oh, big in the game. So you've paid five hundred

and sixty two pounds per horsepower.

Hang on, hang on, but it could, will it,

hang on, will this be worse? So hang on, this

will be a great segue into the second car

that I received in the last few days of coming

off holiday, which was my Porsche Mac.

Oh, no, oh, oh, Segways are my, that's

what I do. So I'm just going to work out

how much per horsepower the Porsche has

cost me. That doesn't look right.

But is this, is this after you've got the

bill for getting it back on the road?

Yeah, so this is all costs so far.

It's how much was the Ami?

Five hundred and sixty two pounds or

horsepower. Six hundred and forty five.

Oh, similar.

Yeah, because the nine twelve has 90

brake horsepower. So there you go.

So for those, for those guys

that have recently started

watching or listening to the podcast

and if you haven't, by the way, please

hit the subscribe button.

If you're watching this on YouTube, give

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platform we're using because it really

helps us kind of grow the podcast.

So some people might not know that

you actually are a Porsche owner.

Yeah, I mean, I forgot for six

months of this year, 12 months of

the year before, I mean, I've owned

it since twenty twenty two.

How many miles have you done in it, Pat?

I did a quarter of the mileage

I've ever done in that car yesterday.

And so it's four hundred in total.

I did a hundred yesterday.

I drove it back from 100 miles.

Yeah, four hundred miles.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, a hundred miles back from

Tuttles to my dad's and then for

my dad's to home in London.

And it didn't skip a beat.

It didn't break down.

It was probably the I'd argue

it's probably the second most

stressful drive of my life, the

first being the Passat efficiency

run because that was definitely the

most stressful thing I've ever done.

But driving the nine twelve back

was was yeah, was I just

I just if anything happened again,

I don't know. I think I'd have to.

I don't know why I do basically.

So it was like this this needs to

work now, given the amount of money

I put into it. And it does.

Honestly, it was it didn't miss a

beat. The gearbox is brilliant.

Like it's the gears are now

super tight.

I've got a fifth gear, which I

didn't realise I had before.

Dogleg first clutch is lovely.

Like sits in the motorway 50 60

65 70 if you want to overtake,

but it's a bit loud at those kind

of speeds because the amount of

throttle input you need to give it.

But honestly, drove home.

It's got if you've ever driven a

classic nine eleven, the windshield

is massive. So you've got this

amazing view out as well.

Yeah, it's brilliant. I'm super

excited about it now. I just want

to use it more and more starts

on the button.

Yeah, and it's only cost me a house

deposit. So that's good.

So you bought a nine on two.

The engine went.

You got the engine fixed.

Yeah, got it back.

Then you took out for drive.

The gearbox went.

You sent it to touch.

Yeah, the touch.

The fix the gearbox and you got

it back again. Yeah, yeah.

It's like the most mechanically

sorted car.

When I bought it, I think it

worked and the engine worked in

gearbox. And I did drive around

a little bit. I did, you know,

20 30 miles tinkering around

by my dad's house and it was

fine. It was.

Yeah, then the engine blew up

in the gearbox, but my plan was

to put the money I've spent in

it into the bodywork and make

it look nice because it had a

working engine in gearbox.

I've now done the inverse.

So I've now spent all the money

I would have spent on the

bodywork on making it

mechanically sound, which

means it looks like a car

that shouldn't work, but it

does. So now I'm going to

we just have some rough

rough figures.

What what is what you bought

it for and what you spent

on it rough figures.

OK, so it cost me

25 grand to buy it, which

seemed like really good value at

the time because they're worth

50 60 70, depending on their

condition. So I was like, I've

got a bit of a deal here.

Like I said, I'll fix up the

bodywork to make it perfect.

And then it'll be worth what

it's worth in the market.

And then I've spent

just over more than that

on the engine in gearbox

alone. Plus I did the

interior and all the other

usual things of fixing,

tinkering of cars, all that

kind of stuff. So we've

spent way more than it cost me

on it at this point.

So you like 50 60 K in

something like that.

Yeah, I could have bought

981 GT4 in cash instead,

which I think I might have got a

bit more use out of in the

last three years.

But yeah, yeah, that's

where about where we are at

the moment. But right now,

this is if we were to do another

challenge, which is like how

much fun you can get out, how

many how many miles you can

get out for a price.

Right. My cost of ownership

right now, my cost per

mile is very high.

But now that it's working,

I'm going to use it a lot

and enjoy it.

And then that cost per mile

will come down and down and

down 50 grand for 400

miles. That is quite a lot.

I mean, that's like worse than

a Taycan.

Like, yeah, I could have just

yeah, just could have bought

a two nine six or something

instead and just burnt the

money. But yeah.

Um, yeah.

So so for now, yeah, I'm

just excited to be able to

use it. Obviously, we're

coming into like autumn.

So that's not ideal.

But until the roads are

sorted and we've got dry

days, I'll go out and

use it. I'll put miles

on it. Just stretch legs

because the engine again,

it's barely even run in.

It's only done three, four

hundred miles. Right.

So that's not even really

running gearbox.

Apparently it doesn't need to

be running, but it's good to

obviously use all the gears

for the first thousand miles.

I don't just sit on the

motorway, you know, make

sure all the gears can get

better than fine.

But um, but no, it's

I'm still stressed about it,

but it will get better over

the next few weeks as I

put more miles on it and

it does fingers crossed

doesn't break down on me

and then I can have a bit

more confidence in it and

you know, take it to places

maybe I'll even get it to a

track day.

Who knows?

Oh, wow.

Well, I'll make sure I'm not

behind you just in case

there's a fluid spillage.

Yeah. Yeah.

If it goes well, it might be

a different type of fluid

spillage.

Anyway, moving on.

That's a that's a segue

and a half. Oh, yeah.

I'm on fire today.

So the next one is

what we've been up to.

Now, we've all been really

busy. I don't think

when was the last time we

all got together?

Would it have been boxing

gas?

We did some digital ones

after that, about two weeks

ago, in terms of physically

together, because then

obviously you've been on

holiday, but Joe, you've

been, well, if anyone

were to guess where you've

been, you went to the Alps

again.

Yeah.

Yeah, I went off.

I did.

When I picked up my bike,

I think it was end of March

this year.

Obviously, we've had a

fantastic summer in the UK

where there's been amazing.

I've seen so many bikes out

and about and

I've been enjoying my bike

and various press bikes this

year, really enjoying

being a bike.

I feel like I've sort of

taken the next step this

year, obviously owning a bike

and but in my head,

because I purchased my bike,

I thought I need to take

that that bike on a proper

journey, a bit like you with

your lovely new car paired

and hopefully packed with

this Porsche next year, I'm

sure I wanted to sort of

stamp, put my own stamp on

it and take it away and,

and, you know, show my

audience if anything else

that I've brought it to

use it and enjoy it.

So I kind of followed

a similar route to what I

did on the GS a couple

of years ago, that press

bike.

And it was brilliant.

Six days, two

just over 2,000 miles,

which is a lot of miles on

a bike over that sort of

period of time, especially

when I'd say 60, 70% of

them were in the twisties.

And, and in my head, my

aim, I kind of set myself.

I wanted to go to the Alps,

but my end point was,

and this is what I told Lou

before I'd left, I think I

said it in my intro was

my end point is having a

coffee in Monaco.

So that no matter what

happened, I had to get

into Monaco, park the bike up,

sit in the cafe, have a coffee

and then turn around and come

back. And that's essentially

what I did. And I tell you

what, it was it was amazing.

I really, really enjoyed every

every second of it.

I was worried about my health

because as you both know

very well, it's been a bit

up and down this year.

So I wasn't sure that I'd get,

you know, I might get deep

into the Alps and suddenly

feel really bad.

And in the car, that's

difficult. But if I was stuck

on a bike, it's you use

a lot of physical energy on

a bike and mental energy as

well, you know, so so it was

great. Yeah, I loved it.

Really got to explore the

bike, my ability

on a bike is, I think

because every time because

I'm so new to biking, every

time I spend an hour or

a day on the bike, my

ability and my learning curve

gets better because it's,

you know, it's a it's a

relatively small amount of

time that I've spent on

bikes in general.

So I learned a lot about

bike control.

And it was just good for the

mind. I'm getting married in

three weeks or whatever it is.

So it was a bit can make.

I mean, yeah, in a bike trip

with a ball and chains really,

really hard.

It's just not happening.

So you can we go.

We're going this week,

mate.

I'm off this evening.

I'm off with my parents.

We're going to France.

We're going to go.

We only got three and a

half, four days.

So I've got an M3CS touring

press car and I thought I'm

going to take it to the road

that Pat and I film the ST on.

You also took your bike there,

though, didn't you?

Did I take my bike there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, which was

really fun.

It's just an area.

It's kind of near.

It's like the Champagne region

ish. It's near Tua

in France and it's just a

wonderful sort of area.

It's not too.

It's four hours off the

Euro tunnel.

So we're just going to go

there, stay in the hotel for

a few days.

I'm going to do a filming,

hang out with them.

It's my birthday and a couple

of days and

celebrate that.

Unfortunately without Lou

because she's got so much work

on at the moment

and so much wedding planning

going on that I should be

involved in.

But anyway, yeah.

So that was cool.

That was really good.

And I enjoyed it and I'm

glad because as we all know

the last few days, I know

Pat, you just got back

from the holiday and suddenly

it feels like there's been

a change in the weather, right?

It's like that.

That extended summer we had.

It's just like, ah, it feels

a bit more

autumnal now and maybe wintry.

But yes, I've been busy.

But you've been busy, Pat.

You've been

you've been here there and

everywhere.

I did Carfest.

Oh, yes.

Welcome to the Treadshed.

The Treadpeds Treadshed.

Yeah, I worked Carfest

with Michelin and Protire.

I went to Carfest last year

very briefly and it's

it's a it's a really interesting event.

I heard it harshly called

basically a Timu festival of speed.

But I think it's probably

probably a bit harsh.

But we had a great time.

We had a panel discussion

three times a day on three

different subjects that I hosted.

Met some really cool people,

did a lap round,

did a lap round the little circuit

they got there with Moggy in his

very, very ridiculous beetle.

And I was good, really, really good.

And then did I hear that

Peter was running cup twos as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it was.

We left most of them at Carfest

to be a pair on.

Well, he did a lot of burnouts

because he's got line lock on it.

So you've got a button

that you can push that locks

the front brakes.

And then when he's

when he's on the start line

with the rear wheels spinning round,

you can see the speedo moving.

He got up to like nearly a hundred

miles an hour,

but we weren't moving.

Wow.

And then

but he did a whole three days

on one set of tyres.

I don't think he drove home

on that one set of tyres,

but he had some spares with him.

But yeah, that's some impressive

heat cycles.

Oh, yeah.

And then this weekend

just gone.

I was at Salon Privet

with locked in performance.

We did a drive out with Salon

Privet and five zero supercars

on the Wednesday,

which was my first drive out

in the spider.

I only got caught out in the rain

twice and had to stop

and put the roof up

because I was determined to have

the roof down all day,

but it was not happening.

Yeah, it was good.

Really, really good.

And then I'm away next week

on holiday, which is very nice.

And we're very much

afford to escaping the crappy

weather by the looks of it.

Amazing.

Yes.

So you just said there

you got caught out twice

to the roof down.

That's the problem with a bike.

And thankfully during the six days,

I've got 45 minutes of rain,

which I'll take all day long now

and reflection, obviously.

But when you're on a French toll

route, you know how there's like

25 minutes, half an hour

between each junction

and you're sitting there.

Suddenly you're like, oh,

clouds are going back.

Oh, oh, it's raining.

There's nothing you can do on a bike.

You can't just you can't just

stop and pull over.

Even even a complicated

spider roof is just yeah.

It's so were you in water?

But your our leather's waterproof.

What do you have like a set

of waterproofs in your backpack?

Or what's the crack?

Well, as you can see behind me,

I have to say a shout out to him

because honestly, we all work

predominantly in the car industry

and we get some amazing opportunities.

But in the bike world,

and I think I've mentioned this

on the podcast before,

you get looked after so well

by a lot of brands and RST,

who having an incredible clothing,

motorbike clothing range.

And they do helmets as well,

our helmets and stuff.

It's a big wholesaler.

But they've got so many

different technical garments

and I'm still to be honest,

a bit lost.

I feel like I know more about riding

in motorbikes than I do about gear

because they probably sell

40 different styles of jackets.

But this one that they sent me

the black one behind me,

it's a heavily ventilated jacket.

So it's designed for the summer.

So when you've got it on,

it feels like you're almost wearing

a t-shirt, which at first is weird

because it's like, oh my God,

like, have I have I got

have I got any gear on?

You know, like everything.

But but they've all got

these amazing membrane things

that you can zip in and out.

And so that one came with a

windproof waterproof membrane.

So so when you've got that in,

obviously it blocks the air

and warms you up

and keeps you relatively dry.

But then when you get down to the outside,

I was having days when I was in Monaco,

it was like 33, 34 degrees.

So obviously that was completely out.

So there are things you can do

to keep yourself relatively dry.

But I think the main thing is

making sure that your luggage

and your gear is in a really good

waterproof bag because, you know,

the last thing you're gonna do

is get to a hotel.

And if you're soaked,

you want to open the bag

and if everything else is soaked.

But that's all part of the attraction

for me is like, you know,

you've you've had a couple of boxes.

Well, they've actually,

that's probably a bad example

because they're really good with luggage.

But we've all had press cars

that are limited, let's say,

with luggage space.

I mean, GT3 RS, for instance,

when we went to Spa.

But and you think, oh, you know,

you're stuffing in like bags

of shoes in the cage.

And but you can get a lot of gear

in there relatively speaking.

Whereas on a motorbike,

if I'm trying to travel

with a 30, I had a 30 litre bag

and my tank bag.

And you know me, I turn up

to some of these Michelin events

and you guys take the piss out of me

because I've got like six pairs of shoes.

Yeah, exactly.

How many did you manage to fit in the bike?

Did you have them all like hanging off

the handlebars and stuff?

I had them around my neck,

you know, like the shoelaces

and then sort of hanging here like that.

No, so yeah, in that instance,

it's like, right, so I've got my riding boots

and then I'm bringing one pair of trainers

and they even those,

I had to think they had to be lightweight,

nice, comfortable trainers.

Couldn't Pilotti just send some down though to Monaco?

Couldn't they?

Well, maybe you could find a pair,

I don't know if you've got a pair,

maybe like, I don't know, black, really yellow,

you know,

like transforming trainers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks like a bumble,

but oh look, yeah, yeah.

No, I couldn't find any of those.

But it was like, it was quite a nice challenge.

It's like it's almost like,

you know, you've got that mountain space,

what do you need?

And basically what can you not bring?

Even down to things like the toothpaste,

you'll end up bringing like small travel toothpaste

that you sort of maybe bring on a plane

or small deodorants and just to try and minimize everything.

And I think there's something quite nice about that.

And then when you get home,

I was saying to Lou yesterday,

I was unpacking that bag finally

and there was only maybe one T-shirt

and a jumper that I didn't end up using.

So I packed pretty well,

but it does teach you about sort of wastage

and that actually you can literally live out

of a bag for a week.

And I know it sounds ridiculous to some people, but yeah,

once again.

I'm going to upset the motorcycle community here,

but they're not necessarily people

known for their personal hygiene.

So we're in a T-shirt, the same T-shirt for like four days

and a pair of underpants for a couple days

probably isn't a major issue, is it?

Well, but this is true.

But then I'm not a fully blown biker.

But then say how many pairs of underpants did you take?

I brought a pair for every day and I used them all.

Oh, good.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, so, yeah, but anyway.

So it's just, it's different things that you don't,

like, you know, tonight going off with my parents,

I've got a three series touring.

I'm going to be bringing six pairs of trainers

probably in three noses.

Of course you are.

How many pairs of Pilates?

Three?

Oh.

Oh, wow.

Probably one.

You need to have your driving shoes for in the car.

Then you've got to have your shoes for the photo shoot.

Then you've got to have your shoes for dinner.

Shoes for your birthday itself, obviously.

You have special shoes for that.

I tell you what, this guy,

the amount of grief I get for my channel partners,

you're the OG, mate.

You have more product placement than anything.

I got grief, actually, I'm going to,

while we're on this subject,

because I've got a comment that's really, really

bloody annoying.

Is doing kind of these product placements,

all joking aside, is ad revenue these days

is so shocking that you've got no choice

but to work with partners and products

to help fund what we do.

Because if you didn't do it,

all these people moaning that we do it

that watch our videos for free,

you literally wouldn't be able to do it.

Whether that's Michelin or Piloti

or for me, Lockton Performance or 5-0 Supercars,

all of these are critical cogs in the wheel

that allow us to do this job.

And, you know, unfortunately,

we don't have the ad revenue of some of the bigger channels

like your Matt Armstrong's who's smashing it.

It's the only choice we have.

But even he must be feeling it,

even with his views,

because we're getting less per view than we ever were.

So even for him, it must be,

but you said it right, cogs in the wheel.

And if it's a cog in the wheel,

which it is with what you,

the companies and the brands that you work with

and the same with me,

they're cogs in the wheel.

Whereas, and I know this is going slightly off-subject,

but there's a lot of...

Oh, see, there's my segue to let you to talk about.

No, no, no, that was my segue, actually.

Yeah, there are cogs that most certainly aren't on the wheel

and we're seeing so much of it at the moment.

And I'm not going to go on about it

and sound like a cynical old man,

but there is some pathetic integrations

and advertisement going on at the moment,

mostly with Chinese brands.

And it just really boils my piss

to see some of these people that are out there that...

We're starting with super car audiences

advertising family Chinese cars.

Yeah, but not just advertising.

I'm saying then they are the best.

I've got some quotes here.

One second.

It's just...

It's a ridiculous...

It's gone way too far

and it is just pathetic that these people are doing it.

Affordable, stylish, ultimate family car.

A Cherry Tigo 8 is the ultimate family car.

I mean, I didn't realise that, but apparently it is.

Anyway, let's move on.

I think I can add a bit of insight

from the other side of this.

I'm not a YouTuber.

I work on the backend production,

but also I previously did talent management

and I still work on a bit of commercial deals and stuff.

So I have an understanding of what brands want and need.

I think my biggest thing I've always said to brands

and I always try and reaffirm

whenever you do anything commercial,

which then pays the bills or facilitates better content,

is that brands should be seen to facilitate things

your audience can enjoy or benefit from.

So it should always be of benefit to your audience.

Like Michelin facilitate amazing opportunities,

video ideas, like that's the relationship you have with them.

It's either content that's interesting

or content that you want to do anyway

that can be helped by Michelin.

Whether it is directly financially,

I mean, I still can't believe,

you probably still get comments today, Joe,

about the Passat trip.

People saying,

why did you spend 600 pound on the Euro tunnel?

You didn't need to spend that much.

Like it was, that was like a weirdly,

like people latch onto that in that video.

Yeah.

It's not the thousands of thousands of pounds

we spent on a two and a half grand car.

It was the fact that we spent 600 good in the Euro tunnel,

but brands like that,

and brands that you work with,

they provide you opportunity

and that brand provides a benefit to your audience.

Sometimes the product that you're promoting

is the benefit.

Like you like the product,

you would recommend the product.

Joe would recommend RST jackets.

We would recommend not yellow night dunk trainers,

but maybe some Pilates.

But we talked about the products.

Real about putting Michelin tyres

on my mountain bike this week.

People saying how it was,

oh yeah, we get it, you're sponsored by Michelin.

I'm like, well, I'm just showing another side.

Some people might have realised

that they do a rain to bike tyres.

That's all I'm showing.

Before we move on to our,

before we move on to our next subject,

I've been trying to get this segue in loads of times.

I was going to use shoes on feet

to shoes on your bike, Joe,

but what Michelin tyres are you running on that bike?

Because you spoke about rain, 33 degrees,

like in a car, I'm going to pick a PS4S or a PS5

depending on what my car is.

But what is your bike equivalent?

I know your bike is a kind of a off,

slightly more off road bias if you want,

but like where did you go in terms of fitting on a tyre

that suited all weather conditions?

So yeah, my F900GS is an adventure bike.

It's a middleweight adventure bike.

I think no term it has.

So let's call it an adventure bike

because a lot 90% of people that have adventure bikes

use them mostly on road.

So I would almost class an adventure bike

as something like a BMW X5 in the car world, right?

Again, most people use SUVs on the road.

And so as a result,

the tyre choice for that sort of bike is quite vast.

And there's a lot of different tyres ranging from,

let's say, Anarchy, Michelin, Anarchy Wilds,

which are almost like motocross tyres

with big nobbles on them,

designed predominantly to go off road

with a bit of on-road ability.

And then the ones that I've got on the bike at the moment,

I took on that trip are Anarchy roads.

So they're designed for adventure bikes,

but actually they're basically road tyres.

So it'd be like a PS4S SUV on an X5M, for instance.

That's what I would translate.

So it was a predominantly road tyre

that dealt with, yeah, would deal with wet roads, dry roads.

It dealt with heat very well,

because I started pushing them.

I got them, you know, worn the rear one,

especially right to the edge of the tyre,

which I was quite happy with.

What do you call them?

No, no.

Chick, chick, chick.

Chick.

Chick and strip apparently.

Oh, chick and strips.

You might have to beep that one out.

That's all right.

I'll beep out one of the two words.

Yeah, so my bike, definitely all those tyres

had massive chicken strips on them before I left,

but by the time I'd been in the Alps or a day,

those chicken strips started to disappear and now they're.

But I mean, bike tyres, just quickly talking about them.

I talked about it a bit in one of my vlogs,

which will be out in about eight months time, probably,

but we've talked about MoGP tyres,

but in a way, a tyre, a road bike tyre

or any sort of bike tyre,

and it's the same, I guess, for bicycles as well,

is you've got to think about what the tyres design is to do,

because my bike, during a normal motorbike's life,

it probably spends 95% of its life more or less upright.

And so 95% of your tyre wear is on that tiny bit

in the centre of the tyre, because the tyre's upright.

But, and so, if you use a bike tyre for years,

what happens is the tyre gets quite square,

because the middle of the tyre wears out.

And so, but then at the same time,

that centre patch of the tyre has to deal

with maximum acceleration, in some case,

over 200 horsepower on the sports bike,

and maximum braking ability, which is amazing

with these new braking systems.

So you've got to make that centre piece of tyre wear so well,

and I'm talking about a 20p coin contact patch.

That's got to wear extremely well,

but yet provide braking and acceleration grip.

And then when you get towards the edge of the tyre,

so the anarchy roads are like a two compound,

so softer on the outside shoulders

and then harder on the inside.

The outside, I almost have a less respect or admiration,

because the outside, you're on it much less,

you can make it a bit softer, give you the grip.

But it's that centre piece, which does boggle my mind,

because on a car tyre,

we're running mostly across the tread of the tyre,

so you've got that much of a contact patch, you know?

And I find that fascinating,

because we're not talking about small numbers

on sports bikes, we're talking about 200 horsepower.

So yeah, I think the technology in a motorbike or bicycle tyre,

it's arguably almost more impressive

than the stuff we find on our car tyres,

because you've got such a small space to produce

all of that grip and longevity on.

It's amazing.

Anyway, there you go.

That's probably enough tyre talk in one pod...

Tire? Tire nerd? Tire nerd.

Oh, you guys just talk about Michelin tyres,

all the time.

The thing is, though, I don't know if you guys

would be exactly the same when I was at a car fest,

you know, they had a couple of guys from Michelin there

who were designers, tyre designers, right?

You get talking to them,

and you very rapidly become a complete and utter tyre geek,

because it's so interesting,

or at least I find it really interesting anyway.

Should we do our challenge?

Yeah, talking of needing good tyres for lots of horsepower,

we'd recommend Michelin's on all of these options.

Oh, all right, OK.

They're getting worse and worse.

Talking of worse, Pete, you're going first.

Go on, we're going to do an EV1 or an ICE1 first,

which one do you want to go for?

Let's just kind of set the scene for everybody.

We've each chosen, or tried to find,

an internal combustion engine car and an EV

that has the most horsepower per pound.

Right.

So, I love the...

Oh, I'm just going to go for it.

No, no, no, Pat, I think Pat should start this, though.

I think I need to go last.

No, no, I want to go last.

All right, Pat, you go first.

I'll go in the middle, so you can take the mickey out.

Do you want me to do petrol or electric?

EV1 first.

Let's do petrol first.

No, electric first.

And then only because I've either been a complete genius

with my combustion engine

or everyone else has thought the same thing.

So, if I could, I'd like to be last.

OK, all right.

With combustion engine.

Let's do electrics first, then.

Pat, you go first.

OK, I'm going to post it into the chat, so here we go.

This is my electric offering, and I shall explain why.

Oh!

You've not picked the exact same one, have you?

Yes.

No, very nearly.

Very nearly.

Exactly the same one.

14 pounds, 39.9 pence per horsepower.

That's correct, yes.

Are you picked the same one, Joe?

The exact same one.

Exactly the same.

So did you learn...

So this is a Tesla Model S P85D dual motor.

It's a 691 horsepower, yeah.

Yeah, it's a 2015 car on a 65 plate.

It's got 151,000 miles, so it's basically box-fresh,

and it's 9,950 pounds.

Now what I learned, because the first thing I did,

was like, well, I'll just go get a ludicrous.

I'll get a P100D ludicrous, or I'll get a Model 3 performance,

whatever they're called.

And then I very quickly learned that they don't actually

have any more horsepower, they just deliver the power differently.

And so buying a more expensive 100D ludicrous, or whatever,

doesn't actually get you more horsepower for the money.

It gets you the same horsepower, and it costs more.

Yeah, a lot more.

Yeah, I mean, it's...

I mean, everyone knows where I stand with Tesla.

They are arguably, I guess, the best electric cars

out because of the infrastructure and the value for money.

But you can't argue with that, can you?

Under 10 grand for something with 700 horsepower.

This does... Joe, what did an M3...

Where do you get the 700 horsepower from?

Well, 691.

If you go to Spec and Features, then it goes to Performance.

And then I cross-referenced this with Google.

It's 691 brake horsepower.

I'm not sure it is.

900... It is.

And 930 Newton-metres of torque.

Because I've got a P90D,

and my P90D is specced at 463 horsepower.

No, it's not.

The additional power comes when you do...

The total power output number is based off like a moment in time,

not a consistent delivery of power.

You're right in that sense.

Well, none of the cars actually provide horsepower numbers at all.

But it does...

For example, the P85D 2015.

This is it, actually. I've just looked at it here.

Twin electric motors.

221 brake horsepower front.

670 brake horsepower rear.

Which makes 690...

Yeah, yours is 762 horsepower, Ped.

762 and a thousand Newton-metres.

See, I don't think you can add them together.

Anyway, we're picking its drawers.

I mean, that's the case then.

Just add the two horsepower together.

It doesn't work that way.

Each of those motors is able to do those two things.

But you don't say, oh, 600 on the back and 200 on the front.

That means I've got 800.

But your P90D in ludicrous mode

will produce 762 horsepower

and up to a thousand Newton-metres in ludicrous mode.

So surely that's what we go of.

And it's the same with the 85.

It's 691 in ludicrous.

I mean...

See, the bit, of course, that we're all missing

which is probably the most compelling reason

to buy a Model S of that age

is you're getting that much horsepower for free.

Because any Model S pre-2020,

you get free supercharging.

So you can charge it up for free.

Although this one doesn't say that in the advert.

But you are right, aren't you?

I am.

That's ridiculous.

That is crazy.

Now, you've got to contend with the fact that

they'll have panel gaps.

You know, there's a river between the panels.

I mean, yours has done...

Who was the last owner?

Captain Kirk.

151,000 miles.

Mine has done 81,000 miles.

The spec on yours is really nice, Ben.

Yeah.

I have to say...

See, I didn't just go for...

I didn't just go for raw...

This is the caveat that I have in.

Yeah, can I just...

Oh, here we go.

Sorry, can I just...

I wanted to see a car I'd actually want to buy as well.

Not just one.

What ties is your car running, Pete?

What ties is your car running?

Oh, I don't know.

Because mine's running Michelin Pilot Sport 4s.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Most Teslas do come on Michelins.

I mean, it's about the only good thing about Teslas.

This is on another tire brand.

In fact, I think it has multiple different ties.

Oh, have you seen the driver's seat in my one, Joe?

I've just seen the driver's seat in the one that we picked.

I'm probably should have looked at that variety.

A bit manky.

It's also got a wooden dashboard, which I've never seen before

and shouldn't exist in a Tesla.

You don't buy a modern car in a Tesla.

We've seen this all the crap in the boot.

What's happening with the boot?

Oh, mate, the interior of yours is terrible.

It's bad.

It is bad.

Yeah, it's not great.

The takeaway, I mean, it was a little bit predictable.

So I have an extra one to throw in.

Oh, okay.

I don't...

This is where I don't think it will win

the pure horsepower per pound challenge.

But if you want a lot of horsepower

for not a great deal of...

Oh, sorry, for a decent amount of money.

Is this electric?

It is electric, yeah.

Okay, go on.

So let me fight its case.

Here we go.

So this car has around about 600 horsepower.

I'm just going to change...

I'm just going to change the rules slightly here.

Yeah, I will do.

32 grand?

Yeah, ah, but...

ah, 28,000 miles.

It's from a Kia dealer.

It's still in warranty.

And it's 32 grand.

And it's 600 horsepower.

That's amazing.

I mean, that's a lot of car, yeah.

It's amazing value, isn't it?

I mean...

So don't take the Mickey out.

I mean, so 576 horsepower.

You know...

You're not winning anything with that metric, though, Ped.

But...

It's two years old.

I know, no.

If we're playing a different game,

this would be a win, too.

It's half price.

It's literally half price.

It reminds us of, like, 10% of the value.

Okay, here's the thing.

Which one would you rather have?

The Kia or that smashed up a lot of wheel?

Of course.

But this is three years and a bit times the price.

But, listen, I'm not taking anything away from it.

I think that's amazing value.

This is just where I've...

I've just been creative with the brief, that's all.

I mean, as we all know,

EVs do not depreciate quickly.

No, not at all.

That is...

I mean, that's amazing value, isn't it?

Yeah.

30 grand.

Really is.

But back to our Tesla.

Anyway, back to the game.

If you want a cheap EV that goes really fast,

buy an old Model 3 or Y,

buy a Model S because you get your free supercharger.

Back to winning the game,

I think we have to agree...

Back to the winners.

I think we have to agree right now

there is no way to be a Tesla Model S

in terms of horsepower.

If there is, if we've missed something,

please let us know in the comments

or message us on Instagram,

because, obviously, there might be something

that we're completely missing here.

Yeah.

Obviously, you don't, you know,

let's not have a conversation

around what happens when you get to a corner

or, you know...

Don't worry about that.

That wasn't in the brief.

People will think of you

because you drive around in a Tesla.

Yeah.

There we go.

OK.

Right.

Now, let's move on to...

The fact that we all chose the same car

is quite...

Yeah.

There was only one way to go for the electric car.

I was convincing them

I was going to choose a Taycan,

but it was still quite big money.

We didn't choose the same car.

We did.

We didn't, Ped.

We'll just clear that up.

Me and Patrick chose the same car.

You chose the Tesla Model S.

You lost.

And you lost.

Right.

Next.

Just quickly talking about

choosing another car.

A Tesla Model 3 performance

is also a good shout.

You can buy a much newer car.

There are about 15 grand for a cheap one

and they have 460 brake horsepower.

460.

Yeah.

So that's about,

that's 33 horsepower per pound.

Yeah.

I'm just saying,

if you want a more reliable,

equivalent experience,

you spend 5 grand more,

you get a little bit less power,

but the car is going to be a lot better.

Or you can spend double again

and get a gear.

Yep.

Okay.

Next, go on Pat.

Leave this on the...

I just think you guys

just need to be a little bit more understanding

and stop being mean to me.

Okay.

I think you just need to read the brief.

Patrick,

I'm worried about you.

I'm worried about you, Pat,

because I think

that you're going to think out of the box

like I have.

I have thought out of the box.

And not out of the box like Ped

that's gone off on a completely different tangent.

The thing is,

I have actually done a Ped

and I do have one that's like weirdly like,

it doesn't win,

but it's interesting.

But this is the one I think

that will win from a...

Let me guess,

you've chosen a tank

or a bloody lorry or something.

No, it's not a tank or a lorry.

Oh.

It is a Bentley Continental

W12 GT Speed

from 2008,

92,000 miles on the clock

and it's 13 and a half grand.

Now it was put up two months ago

or two and a half months ago now

at 18 and it's since been dropped

four and a half grand in price

because clearly they've realised

trying to sell a car with these terrible pictures

isn't a good idea.

Is that the only pictures?

Yeah, of course.

Oh my God, that's shocking.

It's 600 brake horsepower,

600 brake horsepower,

700 brake horsepower,

750 newton metres of torque.

Now,

I'm going to do a Pete here

and I'm going to use another statistic

to try and win you over on this.

Top speed.

This will do 202 miles an hour.

Don't care.

It wasn't in the brief.

13 and a half grand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So 22 pound per brake horsepower.

You can have a Bentley.

You can waft around in that

doing 10 MPG.

No, no, no.

Then you can go 0 to 64 seconds

as he's 200 miles an hour.

Pat, nobody cares.

Pat, you were 22.

22.

That's all we want to know is the figure.

Okay, right.

Okay, I can beat that.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, no.

I can beat that.

I'm going to go next

because Joe, apparently,

he's won already because he's...

Well,

I've definitely destroyed Patrick

in this one.

What?

I can't believe it.

I have gone Italian.

Cool.

So I've gone for

a 2007 Maserati Coupe

4.2 for

7,489 pounds.

Wow.

How much power can this thing have?

Surely it has, like, 300 brake.

No, it has 390 horsepower.

Whoa.

Which comes out at 19 pounds.

Oh, no.

I've come for...

Yeah, I just went for the

highest horsepower possible

than look for the cheapest.

You've done...

That's very clever of you.

I've got...

Yeah, fair play.

Yeah.

Now, all I'd say is...

And it's only done 85,000 miles.

All I'd say is...

I mean, the only kind of...

Because it's paid most of the time

in a garage.

Yeah.

The only kind of idiot

that would buy this car

is the kind of person...

It's you.

...to buy a Porsche 9112

and hope it wouldn't blow up.

No, I can see you in this.

Go into the tennis club,

the paddle club.

And the other good thing is

it's not the boomerang lights

at the back.

It's the one with

the nice lights at the back.

Oh, I would call them nice.

All right.

Okay.

Compared with the boomerang ones,

which have never been a panel.

So there you go.

Yeah, I mean, this is...

This is quite impressive.

I'll give you that.

I didn't think like this.

You thought out of the box here.

I just went for the horsepower.

It's not...

It's not impressive.

You're both rubbish.

Absolute rubbish.

I'm going to destroy you both.

I'm going to destroy you both

in a different stratosphere.

Firstly, should I give you my...

Let's give the...

Figure before I show you the car.

What, the pounds for horsepower?

£2.17 per horsepower.

Stop it.

Oh, hang on.

No, but you just bought something

really cheap, haven't you?

Oh, one second.

One second.

What do you mean, oh, come on?

The game...

Stop getting away from the game.

It's bought a four horsepower car

for £10.

Yeah.

You've done a Jeremy Clarkson here.

Well, you've bought

£150 that's got 90 horsepower or something.

Let me just...

It's bought a lorry or something.

Stop it.

No, because a lorry wouldn't work out that well.

No, no.

Oh, shit.

What have I done?

Where am I?

Zencast...

Oh, I bought a BMW.

Nope.

There we go.

What is this?

I can't...

What?

Oh, the sim is £300.

Oh, my God.

£138 horsepower.

It's got 210,000 miles on it.

It's still...

It runs perfectly fine.

There's no advisories.

Look at that interior as well.

Doesn't matter.

I was so close to using an M140i that had been tuned,

which would have worked out very similar to Pat's,

but Ped would have still won that.

And then suddenly I was like,

actually, no, we're going about this the wrong way.

What's the cheapest thing you can buy that runs?

And then suddenly I was like,

oh, it's £300 for something with 140 horsepower.

And it's got to be a winner.

You didn't see that one coming.

No, that's not quite the spirit of the game.

I was looking for performance cars that are great value.

You've just provided great value.

There's no performance there.

No, let me bring up the brief that Patrick sent one second.

It was Patrick's idea.

That Honda is so bad.

Half our audience are going, I'd rather buy a Tesla.

The Tesla's become good value all of a sudden.

Most horsepower for your money.

That was it.

That was in the brief.

Most horsepower for your money.

That is the most horsepower for your money.

Now, what you've gone for is the lowest amount of money

you can spend to buy some horsepower.

Yeah.

No, I've gone for most horsepower for your money.

£300 Honda Civic 2.2 diesel is the most horsepower for your money.

I missed the fact that it was an oil burner.

Oh my God.

You get 60 miles to the gallon as well.

So I'm now going to provide the option I had

as like a kind of a kind of Pete's outwardly thinking option.

So I was thinking most horsepower for your money.

So a relevant of cost per horsepower

or horsepower per power or whatever.

This is purely what I think is the most horsepower

of your horsepower for the money you can spend.

It absolutely smashes Pete's 30 grand Kia.

But it is also 30 grand.

This is a 900 horsepower AMG C63 from 2017.

It's got a Stage 3 tune.

It's got downpipes.

It's got intakes.

It's got additional fuel pumps.

It's got lowering springs.

It's got wheels.

It's also running Michelin PS4.

Tires on the rear only, which has just read that.

That's odd.

It's got carbon splitters.

Joe Achilles' favourite thing to do.

Carbon splitters and rear valentines.

That's a serious bit of kit though, isn't it?

430 grand.

That's quite fast, I reckon.

It is, but I'm watching that.

I'm looking at that and going,

yeah, but who did all the work?

Because it's probably some, you know,

dodgy geese.

I'm not sure how...

We need a new challenge, which is the most reliable horsepower.

Because so far I've picked a Bentley Continental

for 13 grand, which isn't reliable.

A Tesla Model 3 with 150,000 miles, which won't be reliable.

And a C63 modified by a man in a back garage,

which won't be reliable.

And once again, I've picked a Honda Civic,

which is arguably the most reliable brand

on the planet, Honda, Japanese,

the Civic, known for its longevity.

It's amazing build quality.

210,000 miles.

You don't have to sing its praises too much.

You won, OK?

I'm tempted to buy it.

I mean, it's a great video title for YouTube.

It's cheaper than an AMI.

It is.

£300.

Wow.

What could go wrong?

It's quite far away in Bradford.

It's gone wrong.

Anyway.

Well, there you go.

I know you guys are really jaded about this,

because you just can't deal with the fact that,

number one, I've absolutely blown you away with the ice vehicles.

And number two, it's a Honda Civic diesel that beat you.

I know that must be quite hard to accept.

You've got to live with the credibility, though, Joe.

At least me and Pat chose stuff with, like, you know, a V8 and a V12.

Yeah.

You've got to put your clown shoes on.

Put your clown shoes on, mate, yeah.

Put on my winning shoes.

Your wedding shoes.

A wedding?

Could I get a wedding?

No, if you lose at home today, don't say that out loud.

Yeah, you're getting a lot of trouble.

Anyway, well, I think that turned out far different than I expected,

because I genuinely thought you'd also all go get Bentley Continental GTs,

because they're the most horsepower for the money.

But no, Joe's...

Clearly not.

Joe's won on the technicality, and that's okay.

I've won.

That's it.

There's no technicalities.

Anyway, if you enjoyed that one, guys,

make sure to subscribe and tune in for more,

because we do these a lot.

Look back at our back catalogue,

and you'll see ones that I won a lot.

Big thanks to Michelin,

and go out and get yourself a £300 Honda Civic.

Yeah, make sure you put Michelins on it, though,

so you've got safe performance,

because, God forbid, you deploy all that 140 at once in it.

You might get some wheel spit or something.

You might lose control.

Well, you could buy a cherry,

because they're the best family car you can buy.

Oh, yes, they are the ultimate...

the ultimate family car.

Oh, yes.

Right.

Right, goodbye.

You can end it right in there.

Most Bang For Your Buck in 2025 | Ep 72 | Drive Torque Podcast

Citroen AMI

Porsche Mac

Volkswagen Passat

Porsche Taycan

BMW M3Cs

BMW X5

General Motors Ev1

Tesla Model

Tesla Model S

Tesla Model 3

Porsche 9112

BMW M140I

Honda Civic

About this episode

Original notes