Motorcycles and Photography with James Folder #446

What is up everyone and welcome back to the Fast Life podcast.

On today's episode, I'm sitting down with James, who is a Kansas City based photographer

that I caught wind of during Born Free Texas 4 and reached out to him and lined it up to

be able to stop through Kansas City on my way back from picking up this bike in Minnesota.

So great dude, great photography.

So many cool images that we talk about in this episode and you know just hearing his

path to get to where he's at now was pretty inspiring and yeah I'm really stoked to have

you guys listen to this.

Before we get into it, please check out our sponsors RNS Motorcycles Fast Life 10 gets

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Now let's get into it with my man James.

Hey guys, you ready to let the dogs out?

When did you pick up the camera?

Uh, I started in, see that's a 2014, that pink bike.

So 2014, I bought it, it was still called out.

So I want to say summertime or fall 2014 I bought a GoPro, 2017, I think it was 2017

or 2018 probably fall because it was the, we had the fall party for blip I think.

I bought a Fuji X-T1 which I still have in that bag I was shooting with at Pook's

Place just now.

So I bought that, was living in the semi Monday through Saturday basically I get home like

Saturday early morning.

So I was wanting to do motorcycle photos with my friends and I was wanting to do whatever

I could on the side of the road.

Yeah, just while you're traveling and moving around.

I was doing like a non-stop loop.

Kansas City to Boine, Kansas City to Tulsa, Kansas City to Muscogee or Fort Smiths.

One of those.

And Muscogee's a ways, isn't it?

It's not any farther than, it's literally like a radius.

Oh, okay.

So like you go to Tulsa, it's only, oh Muscogee, Oklahoma, I was thinking like, I guess I was

thinking Muskegon.

Oh, Muskegon, yeah.

And Michigan, I was like, fuck dude, that's a riddle.

That's actually, I worked for a company up there too for a little while that I'd go

up there for Martin, but yeah.

So I got the camera to do motorcycle stuff, but then it was like, oh, I need to hit the

fast forward button and learn this.

Yeah.

So I was like, how do I learn it?

So I'm like looking up all these how-to videos and somebody was like, hey man, learn the

exposure triangle.

And I found a video that I could digest the way they were delivering the information better

and that's always been a struggle for me through school.

So YouTube is primo for that.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, this individual is speaking at a rate where I'm like, I'm getting what

this guy's saying.

Yeah.

I'm like, I got it.

So I was like, but I'm like, how do I, how do I practice to get these motorcycle photos?

I'm like, well, before they put a camera in my semi truck, I was just driving down the

road shooting, shooting stuff down off my, I literally put my arm.

In fact, weird Harold from the punk rods has a weird weirdos tattoo here and Belton,

South of here.

And they used to do a thing called the ham drags and in Joplin, Missouri, which is like

drag racing, bring your own vehicles, vintage cars and motorcycles and really cool.

And I knew it was happening and I saw the cars going by, you see the trailer cars go

by.

So I had my camera ready next to me in the semi.

I see this motorcycle and I said, Oh, I know that bike, because it's like St. Louis style

D raker.

And it's got like a basically a paper plate, like a number plate, because he's going to

race it.

It does not have a headlight.

Right.

Oh, shit.

That's Harold.

So I rolled out the window.

I take the picture later on the day I take care.

I edit everything.

I sent it to him and he tells the story every time I see him and it makes me laugh.

But he's like, I have, he's been only rides hot rods.

Yeah.

And for his whole life and he's like, I've been going up and down that highway at all

through town and people have been sticking cameras and phones out to take our pictures.

You know, he's like, that's the first time I ever got to see the picture.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

And like, it's like, that is awesome.

So I'm on the inside of my world.

What documenting at if you can recall or even like maybe think about this, like, what do

you think like compelled you to shoot in the first place?

Like, what was kind of like the I tried to get into photography and when I was a teenager,

but it was expensive.

I actually worked at a Oscar developing film and I was like, I couldn't.

I didn't know.

I had no idea.

No frame of reference.

I was just like, oh, I can't afford a camera.

Yeah.

Make $7 an hour.

You know, like, so I was just using disposable cameras going to like punk shows at people's

houses.

And I still have some of those pictures because I could develop them for free.

Yeah.

And then I quit working there and I was like, well, I give up on that.

Yes.

You know, and then later on, I got back into it by that.

But I really think it was trying to take pictures of my kids, you know, my kids are

all grown now trying to take pictures of my kids where it's good.

Yeah.

Like you want to, you take a picture of your wife or kids and you show it to them and they're

not happy about it.

That's a bummer.

Yeah.

And the motorcycle thing, it doesn't matter who they are, man.

Like my friends, some of my friends, all they do is build motorcycles.

Yeah.

They're like legit.

And there's a couple of people that I've shown their picture to, I took their picture,

I show it to them and, you know, whether it be a guy or a girl, they're like, oh, I look

good.

I'm like, oh, you didn't know you're like the coolest guy in the world.

Yeah.

You didn't know you're like really pretty and riding a chopper.

Like you didn't know that?

Yeah.

Like you probably hoped it.

I don't know.

But like you, so then taking pictures of my kids and then I was leading a ride of, you

know, like a lot of people, like 50 people on Sunday mornings, there used to be 150 bikes

out here.

Damn.

There's in the summertime, there still is, but it's not the same crowd.

Our crowd doesn't do it as much as a lot more crotch rockets and used to be a lot more

vintage bikes.

Yeah.

And so just for people's reference, we're at, is this, is this the Kansas City proper?

Yeah.

We're in the west bottoms of Kansas City.

Our shop here, this shop space is on the back half of Blip Roasters, which is a coffee

shop, but it's a motorcycle oriented coffee shop.

So you can go in there.

There's a whole rack of belt well helmets, bell helmets, grifters, gloves and some riding

gear.

Um, they carry the ton magazine, I think a couple other magazines on the shelf, but

it's a pretty big coffee shop like space wise and volume wise.

Like there's a lot of people coming here, but like you go out front on a Sunday morning,

there'll be everything from a couple of choppers, choppers will be back here with us basically.

And then in the front, they'll be everything from sidecar, vintage sidecar bikes, cafe racers,

adventure bikes, all types of folks that they're on on a Sunday, it'll wrap.

This is the highway over here, this bridge on a Sunday, it'll go all the way around the

beads on a big Sunday.

I bet you there's 200 bikes, but I was leading a ride of 50 to 100 people like right out

of the gate.

Like I did like, we did like three meetups of like, where would you like go cruise to

is there like a known, no, uh, I'm not from Kansas City.

So I, I actually learned about Kansas City, like I moved here and was in the punk rock

scene and like hanging out in Midtown.

I didn't even have a car.

So for a lot of time I didn't know anything but Midtown, Westport, the West Bottoms.

But then I was actually working for a trucking company delivering food to restaurants and

we had all the cool mom and pop and chef restaurants along with like sonics and stuff like that.

And then we, so I learned like the map of Kansas City.

I'd go like, Oh, well, I don't, this place out here is, uh, Leavenworths.

Well, that this goes along the Missouri River.

So it goes Parkville to Leavenworths.

And it turns out, I didn't know past that is, uh, Weston and there's like, Oh,

Malley's Irish bar, which is like the oldest bar in Missouri and it's 60 feet underground.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

It looks like a Viking cave bar.

Like it's all, it's a big arch and there's a stage and it's all Irish, everything,

obviously, but they got an outdoor venue too.

But that's like a regular, like, uh, local desi, designation, okay.

Destination destination.

So you like Sunday, we ride out there and get a couple of beers and there's another

place at the Rhone, um, Jeff's salvage yard, which is like all architectural salvage.

And it's like, you, you're like in and like next to an old boat and, uh, uh, a street

car in a, in half a house.

It's like, it's really wild and cool and you can get beers from him.

Yeah.

Hang out, you know, uh, so yeah, so I just started plotting a ride.

Like, I guess we'll go here.

And then my wife and I had gone to the Elms, which is an old, um, old hotel in, um,

Excelsior Springs, which like, if you ever think of like the Harry Truman

picture where it says that he won presidency, that photo, he's in the hotel.

That's that spot.

Oh, shit.

And they used to train all the boxers there and stuff.

There's like a waiting pool under, like a, uh, like a lazy river type pool

understand, and there's a pool outside the hot tub and me and her had gone there

and there's a barbecue place.

And as soon as you get north of here and like real quick, it gets like Iowa Hills.

Yeah.

So I was like, Oh, that'll be fun to ride those hills with the car.

When I'd done it with a couple of individuals, I was like, well, I'll

lead this ride here.

So I wouldn't, I would post, make the ride map and post it because everybody

that was going on these rides was amateurs.

Like some of them, most of them was their first motorcycles, but so that's

how I got a GoPro turned it backwards on my helmet.

I just thought it was so cool that all of these people were having this much

fun, you know, and I was like, well, I want to get some pictures of this.

Like, and I'm at the time, you know, cell phones are a thousand dollars

and the cameras aren't good.

Yeah.

And then it really quick, I didn't like the GoPro and it turned to me like having

my GoPro on a lanyard or my, uh, my cell phone on a lanyard.

And then I got the XT one and immediately people are like, holy shit, dude,

like you're just going to whip that camera out on the road.

And I don't think when I started doing that, I mean, even like the, the most

motorcycle photographers I know, I didn't realize that's not how they were doing it.

And like Michael Lictor wasn't really riding and shooting.

It was riding backwards.

Yeah.

I didn't know that until very recently.

I saw a YouTube video and it was like a video on Instagram or something.

And it was like, Oh, that's probably smarter.

Yeah.

Well, it's scary the hell out of people.

Yeah.

I mean, the, the scariest dude I've ever watched shoot is, uh, Josh Curbius.

Oh yeah.

He'll get down there backwards on the bike.

Um, I shoot from the bike a lot, but I have my methods and that camera right there.

There's a lot of reasons why I upgraded that, but that one has a bottom grip.

So I can shoot with my left hand while I'm riding because I don't have

cruise control or anything.

Me either.

So you can get out there and like hold it a certain way and get the shots.

And, you know, you're kind of spraying and praying a little bit.

You're not as much framing out, but you know that that sunsets there, the

bikes there, you kind of preset your settings.

I, yeah, I do single point focus.

Yeah.

Foodies are not good at autofocus at all.

So I basically tell everybody the same speech, which is you ride what you're

going to ride, you do what you're going to do.

Don't do anything for me.

Yeah.

I don't want, first of all, my camera doesn't see how fast you're going.

So a lot of people, you point the camera and they gas it up.

Yeah.

That just makes it harder for me to time it.

Yeah.

You know, uh, so what I do is I say, just stay in your lane.

If I'm trying to be on your left, you'll be in the right side of the lane.

If you see me on your right, you don't go into the other lane, but definitely move

over.

Yeah, yeah.

Cause I've got a 13 mil that I will, I can beat it up.

Yeah.

Like, like that one's a 13 mil, the one above it's 18.

So I can, I can be in the lane, in the spot, in the lane with you and get your,

I don't like to have things cropped off much.

So I can get the whole bike, I can get the whole background.

And, um, so I, I should, what I do is I, you're cruising up along and I,

I shoot up past you.

I say, don't chase me.

Just keep doing what you're doing.

I shoot up past you because I'm waiting for this background.

So I shoot up past you and then I hit the brakes a lot.

Can I ride back until I'm, and I match your speed and then I catch you.

I catch up with you and I might catch you as you pass me.

So I can get you your eyes.

Yeah.

And then sometimes the back, but the back pictures just aren't as good.

Usually there's just not a lot to them.

I don't, you just got to find the right angle.

It's gonna be the right bike and the background.

Yeah.

Cause I need that to, I need that to work out.

I need the, I need the background, the bike and the person.

Yeah.

I really, so that's, that's one thing I, I, I try to, like when you're surrounded

by these vintage bikes and, and the aesthetic of the people that ride them,

it just works well in photos when I've been saying this a lot and I don't mean

to say it in, for the people listening, I don't mean to say it in a way that's

like, like a slight towards the modern bikes, but it's like, when you're on a

bike and you have, you know, Air Jordans and logos all over your pants and logos

all over your shirt and it just, it kind of like timestamps a photo.

It, it just take it, it's like you, your eyes get drawn to their clothes and

not the bike and the experience and it feels like a, like an advertisement

a lot as opposed to like capturing a, a moment.

No, a hundred percent.

Like I liked everything, whether it's clothes that I buy or even I buy the,

the Fuji's, I have the silver Fuji looks like a vintage camera.

I like things to look timeless.

Yes.

And when you, I will post, like when we write, we actually ride from here to

another coffee shop regularly.

Yeah.

So Sister Ann's is a coffee shop in town.

It's a record store and coffee shop and we ride from here to there.

So whenever you see me post the Ferris wheel pictures, that's our lap.

Yeah.

We go one way, usually sometimes we go both the same way, both there to and from,

but there's two ways to get there basically.

And that, I, yeah, we, we do that and we, I do those pictures and I'm like, ah,

these are snapshots of me and my friends in our day to day life.

Yeah.

And I need in my head to appreciate those and I love doing them, but so, and I,

when there's no other modern cars in them, I love it just a little bit more.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, that satisfies me as far as the, the overall photo, you know, but sometimes

there's, sometimes it's awesome.

Sometimes there'll be like a 50-something Chevy just happens to be there.

Like this is a car and motorcycle town.

Yeah.

So like there's a couple of pictures.

People think I've, I've set up photo shoots.

So I'm like, no man, Jesse rode his long bike out of here for the first time.

I had like 40 bikes here for a photo shoot that Ricky had built a couple of months ago.

And Jesse's bike, he didn't build it, but he got it going.

And Jesse got to rip it around.

We went to the end of the block.

We turn around.

I got a picture of him and like a 55 Chevy.

Just perfect.

You know, but I don't like, I don't like modern cars.

I don't like modern signage.

That's the first time I've been tempted to get into like actual photo shop.

Because I want to get rid of this billboard that says something ridiculous.

Lightroom can do that pretty easily now.

Yeah.

I've actually, I've used it to delete strangely for the first time I ever did it.

And I think the only time I've ever done it, something I've actually used for something

was in the greasy culture magazine, Ricky built an iron head.

And there was, I got this picture was my favorite picture out of all the ones I took that day.

And it had two people in complete like crotch rocket gear going the opposite way.

And I sent it to him.

I was like, man, look at this.

And he was like, oh, that's great.

Except for those other bikes.

Fuck those guys.

And I'm like, I know, right?

And then it's like, I'm trying to crop it.

It's like, I don't know.

I don't know what I'm doing really as far as editing.

So I tried to crop it and I was like, huh, that doesn't work.

And then I was like, somebody was like, do this.

And I was like, oh, again, absolutely.

Kate, man, like I just learned masking this summer, this summer.

No kidding.

I find it kind of good though.

I mean, all the stuff that you're saying, it's not that it's bad that people know how to edit

or alter the photos or whatever the case.

But it's like, you want to shoot intentionally.

That's the goal.

You know?

I don't really bristle at the film.

I always call them film perverts.

They're so into film.

It's borderline strange.

Yeah.

Like I'm like, I get it.

Like it's really cool.

It is really cool.

Like just like a shovel head is always going to be cooler than the Evo.

I own two Evo's.

I'm not a mechanic, you know?

And I own a whole film developing station at my house.

1960s, like serious, like whole film lab.

I have to assemble.

I don't have the money to do any of it.

Yeah.

You know?

So I'm like, well, you know, but then on the other side,

there's a handful of people that I'm friends with and I follow that

they will post the same picture with four different edits in one post.

Yeah.

And I was like, well, you realize that's what makes these people

not like you, not like us, as far as digital or not respected.

Not respected is the word.

Yeah.

You're literally saying like, like it's supposed to be art, man.

You're supposed to apply your skill and make your choices

and the thing that you, that's my opinion.

Apply your skill and make your choices to get the outcome you want.

That, and to me, is your art.

Yeah.

So who are you or what are you if you post the same picture with five different edits

and you're like, whatever you like, consumer.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, okay, inevitably that'll be a camera person, not a photography person.

That person will be more into cameras than they are into the outcome.

Yeah, so I did a, I still have a film camera and I still dabble in it,

but I think that it's a good thing to, if you've been shooting digital for a while

and you want to get like a, just like get more intentional with yourself

instead of like just assuming, hey, I got, you know, endless photos here.

Mm-hmm.

Film can kind of really make you look and start, I think it helps you find composition

if you're like the guy that just takes the big picture

and then finds the picture in it and crops it.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So it's like intentionality is something that can be developed through restriction,

like film, but if I was shooting, like, I wouldn't mind having a,

like a really dope film camera to shoot certain things

because it's going to be a certain vibe.

You know, like Portrait 400 is just fucking beautiful.

If you get the, if you get the right settings outside

and you know it in the, in the camera, God damn, that shit is sexy.

Oh, yeah.

You know, and it all looks good.

It looks good while you're doing it.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it, like the camera looks good.

Yeah.

Like the physical camera in your hand looks good.

So like you watch an Estimon Oriole video and he walks up and he's like,

stand right there and he knows exactly what he's doing every time

in the camera settings and he knows the film.

He knows all of it in its LA.

Like the sun moves, but the weather's pretty consistent there.

You know, and he goes, click, got it.

And he's done.

And I'm like, that is amazing.

Yeah.

Absolutely amazing.

And just like all the vehicles I like,

everything looks cool while you're doing it.

You know, I'm not mad at it.

On your topic or on your point about like,

maybe not so much vintage, but just like the style of clothing,

a style, like a vibe, like I,

I kind of, I understand it a hundred percent,

but I think that the outside people,

they like to say it's cosplay and shit like that,

but it's really not.

It's really more of a, like,

if you're like I said, if you're riding that panhead right there

with Jordans and fucking, you know, Adidas sweatpants,

it might be kind of cool.

Hold on that.

Do the sweatpants are pretty sick sometimes.

Yeah.

I mean, if you've got a full track suit on,

yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's a vibe, right?

Like if you're looking like Russian Mafia.

Yeah.

But there's, you get what I'm saying,

like there's just an aesthetic that like you,

it just doesn't fit all the time, you know?

And those are, it's funny because people,

people will say like, I took my daughter to see,

man, I think it was,

I think it was clutch, quick sand and helmet.

I think it was those three together.

And she looked at me and she said,

these people all look like your friends.

And literally, and then she goes,

it also looks like a Kyle Kanane lookalike contest.

Like, you know what I'm talking about?

The Canadian.

And I was like, yeah, 100%.

Gray beards, beanies, dickies,

like just 90s skateboarders all growed up.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I'm not mad at that though.

Everybody's doing that.

Yeah.

Whether it's golf guys trying to flex for other golf guys or

like me and my friends show up and like,

our clothes are interchangeable.

Like, actually, half these, this shirt I got from Ricky.

We both lost a bunch of weight.

These pants I got from Ricky, all of it.

I've been getting Ricky hand-me-downs all year

because we both lost a bunch of weight.

But I like that.

Yeah.

I think it's strange that people are upset.

They're like, oh, like, oh, you got a sportster.

And then you chopped it.

Now you got a sportster chopper.

Now you think you're a chopper guy.

I'm like, man, he is.

Yeah.

So it's like, you got a camera?

You take pictures?

Nobody could take that from you.

You're a photographer.

Yeah.

Like, I, and I got to say that to myself sometimes.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

So like, I told my son, my son's 25 years old.

He got, he had that bike and wrecked it.

And then he got a dyna.

No, he didn't got a BMW.

Then he got his dyna.

And he is one of those people.

I took his picture on this bridge right here, that same spot.

And I showed it to him.

He said, I'm a motorcycle guy.

This dude's 6'1".

Yeah.

He's a monster of a kid, you know?

And he was like, I'm a motorcycle guy.

That's like, yeah, man, you can buy the motorcycle,

you can buy the helmet, the jacket,

and then if you ride the motorcycle, you're doing it.

Whether or not any of these gatekeepers

will let you into their community,

that's a whole other story.

Yeah.

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But I like the idea that if I go to Born Free,

I see somebody with an oil band shirt on

or somebody with a punk rock shirt on.

I'm not going to find myself in a group of people around a bonfire

later saying things that I don't want to hear.

You know what I mean? Because I'm not that guy.

I'm an older freckle faced white guy

with black and gray tattoos on his hands.

I find myself in workplaces and stuff

where people are racist or people or whatever they are.

But I'm like, how did I end up here?

So I like the idea of men fly a flag, pick a team,

like represent something. There's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, something that speaks to you.

I know that men are not used to saying like,

oh, that dude has a dope style.

You know, it's like I like his style.

I kind of wish I had style. I think I might try his style.

100%.

And then when you're in a culture,

like especially in your teens and stuff,

like skateboarding or maybe it's athletics,

there's certain things that become part of that culture

and it just makes sense.

But the dickies, sweatshirts.

There is some gatekeeping and motorcycling and photography

because photography is competitive.

People don't like to say that because it's art.

It's competitive because if I start taking pictures

and this website starts running my pictures,

well, there's always so much need and so much money.

I don't really make any money at it.

I have a job. I've been a truck driver for 20 years

and I just became an exterminator.

So I care about the money,

but not as much as I care about doing the thing.

And that's probably going to bother people

who do it for a living.

They're like, hey, man, you're over here doing this

at a discount.

And I'm like, if I ask for more money

or if I ask for money,

then they're just going to pick the other new guy.

It feels like sometimes.

I feel like most of the high professional photographers

I know, they've all helped me.

And I don't know if that means anything,

but the gatekeeping comes when people feel like

you're just taking from the culture.

I literally just had this conversation with Zach at Heavy

before I came over here today.

There's some level of gatekeeping that I believe

needs to exist so that things don't get fucked up.

Yeah, because it ends up being a thing.

If you got access to everything in every subculture

you've ever been to the first day you got there

because you bought something or you showed up

and now you're entitled to that?

No, honestly.

A friend of mine recently asked,

the tattoo, Kansy has more tattoo shops

be a square mile than any city in town.

Like, I haven't been tattooed hardly in 20 years.

Most of us look like this in the 90s.

And a friend of mine has a pretty progressive tattoo shop

and they asked, did creating this all inclusiveness,

did we mess up a little bit?

And I'm like, yeah, 100%.

Or they said, did it create a bunch of people

who think that they have a right?

They're entitled to everything right here, right now.

And I was like, yes.

You got rid of the ugly rules that would allow,

for example, an older male tattooer

to take advantage of a young lady

who wants to be in the tattoo shop,

whether it be a customer, an apprentice.

You know what I mean?

You got rid of some of the predatory rules,

some of the stuff that we should evolve past.

But you actually threw away some of the rules that kept

anybody who wants to pick up a machine online,

like you just opened it up to anything goes anytime.

Like you can't be mad at anybody anymore for opening a tattoo shop

right next to your tattoo shop,

even though they've only been tattooing for a year.

And I understand that.

I mean, it's like some of these gatekeeping in society,

you can't just go be a barber.

You know what I mean?

100%.

That's a really good point.

Like you can't just put up a sign and say,

hey, I'm a chopper builder,

and you're putting two into one Mac exhausts on bikes

in a small seat and being like, there you go.

When you have something that's attached to a culture

or a way of life, like motorcycling, skateboarding, music,

there's a part of it where it's not that you have to pay homage.

It's not that.

I don't think it's about prospecting for friends or anything like that.

I just think it's about, hey, man,

like you guys have been holding it down in Kansas City for a while.

Maybe I should, instead of like getting into bikes

and then a month later, I'm starting my own fucking bike club

and bike night and bullshit like that.

Maybe I should go be a part of the culture that exists here.

And then after I put some time in or I've been around it,

maybe there's some things that need to change

and then you can change from that way.

Oh, well, they didn't fucking,

they didn't ask me when my Instagram was the first time I showed up.

So now fuck those guys.

They're all arrogant pricks, you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's a good point because there's always a handful of snipers

that like even here, they're all nice guys,

but their hobby is to post up outside of here

and take pictures of people as they're riding up.

Some of them will track you down and try to sell you a photo.

Oh, shit, hand out.

But what I do is kind of candid.

So even at Born Free, I wasn't talking to people.

I kind of hang back.

That's a luxury, dude.

I wish that I wish that was something I could do more of.

So like I saw like people, I'm like, I saw Kirby.

I said, I know who he is.

I was taking a picture and he turned around and smiled at me

and like Scott Topher lives here.

We hang out, him and Scott are good friends.

And I wanted to be like, hey man, what's up?

But I was like trying to take my pictures.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, okay.

I was like, I'll see him again and I'll talk to him in a minute.

I'm sure he doesn't know who I am, but I'm like,

I do want to introduce myself to him.

I did never see him again that time.

But then I end up, several people were like,

oh, I didn't know you were there.

I'm posting pictures like I didn't know you were there.

And I was like, I saw you and meant to catch up with you.

But then I did kind of feel like a sniper.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I was like, well, I don't know, man, I was exhausted.

And I didn't know I was going.

The guy that Ricky's building that shovel head for hit me up.

Chad, it's like, I have a ticket and a trailer.

All you got to do is be standing outside.

I got food.

I got a tent.

You need a bed roll and your motorcycle and your camera gear

and your set.

You want to go?

And I was like, I can't do it, man.

I just started this new job.

And Mark, I started working with him and he's like, ask.

So I got the day off.

So I worked five in the morning until five at night,

got up at five in the morning, came here, loaded all our stuff up

and drove all the way to the show.

So 9 AM.

So I've been up for 30 hours, basically,

because I slept like three hours in the truck

and he's like, I need you to drive some of it.

I was like, oh, hell, you know, and I was just doing my best

to stand up for the first day and a half.

I didn't go to the art show that night.

I really regretted that because they got rained out the next night.

But I was just wandering around and then I didn't know.

I thought everything by the racetrack was the racers paddock.

Like where the racers were set up.

Yeah.

I didn't know that it was benders and stuff.

Benders and stuff.

So like the Martian Machine guys were down there

and 9 Finger Mike was down there.

It was like the last hour.

Saturday night, I was up by the bar

and 9 Finger Mike walked up.

And in a couple of other people and I was like, oh,

where have you been?

They're like, well, down there.

I thought it was so strange that I didn't know.

I know a handful of these people that are normally at these things.

Yeah.

And I'm like, man, I only know the people that I see on the internet.

And then I felt extra weird.

Yeah.

Like, hey, danger Dan from the internet.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like he's busy.

He's working right now.

So I'm not going to bother.

Yeah.

I mean, the bar is a good place to network.

Or going to people's booths is a good place to network.

But what I was kind of implying is that when you get to go these things

and like, I went there with the camera and walked away with four photos.

You know what I mean?

Like, I absolutely hate that.

But it's like, then you get caught up in conversations the whole time

and you never get a chance to take the photos, right?

Oh, yeah.

Like, if you ever see Michael Lichter out when he's doing his thing,

he is the most engaging conversation guy when he's not working.

When he's here to shoot, he's like tunnel visioned.

I bet his horizontal vision disappeared.

Yeah.

I mean, he might, he can look through you and you're like, Mike, Mike.

And he's like, oh, hey, like it's strange how he turns it on and gets the shit done.

Yeah.

I was watching, oh my gosh, Ben.

Ben Christian is a Christian.

Yeah.

Ben Christian.

I was watching him a lot like, oh my gosh, look at this guy.

Because I have a real problem walking up and looking you in the face and taking your picture.

Yeah.

I have a discomfort with it.

And that's a pretty big dude.

Yeah.

And he was like moving between me and other people, popping up and like right in their space.

And like, how did you, I feel like if I moved toward that couple to take that picture, they would run.

Do you know what I mean?

Like they feel like I'm coming to, like I'm getting in their space.

I'm like, that's amazing.

It's got to, it's a skill.

That dude's a machine.

He is impressive on lots of levels.

But I, yeah, I do hear what you're saying.

We did Chopper Fest here in September and I was the photographer for that and was overwhelmed.

I couldn't go, and I'm not complaining at all, overwhelmed.

I was like, it was first year we're all doing all kinds of stuff.

Like I was putting up the bicycle bars, the Tracy barrier or the metal barriers and stuff.

Like I was doing lots of, everybody was doing lots of stuff to make the show happen.

And then I was like, okay, I'm done with that.

And I'm here to take photos.

So I try to take pictures of all the bikes as they were coming in.

And it's the Golden Ox, which is like the oldest steakhouse in the, in this part of the country.

And the bikes are coming in and the sun's perfect and it's hitting them.

And like as I'm taking pictures, people are coming up and talking to me.

And I'm like, I've always wanted to meet this person and I would, can we do this later?

Yeah.

Because I'm not smart.

Like I'm not, I can't do both of these things.

Yeah.

I can't, and I have a bunch of pictures that aren't in focus.

And I feel like I blew them off too.

Yeah.

Not having a real conversation.

And I, I do like people, you know.

And then I'm wandering around and everybody I know in town, which is a lot of people.

I know everybody from every venue on that block personally, I've done them for 20 years.

We all worked at different venues together when I did that kind of stuff.

And like the art show, the David Mann art show, it was tricky because nobody ever goes

in the alley to these venues.

But above Grimm's and above Lucky Boy's bar, there's an art gallery space that normally

you would go through the, the tattoo shop to get up to.

Yeah.

But they made the door, the entry to that back because they were doing tattoos for the show,

you know?

So like, oh, this would be faster.

Except for, you know, again, learning experience, there was no signage.

So people were like coming to find me like, hey, I had photos.

There's a bunch of these photos were hanging up there in the art show.

And I could have been more thrilled to do that.

But everybody I know is calling me or being like, hey, where's the art show or coming to

find me?

Hey, where's the art show?

And I'm like, go to this gate at that white tent, go left and go counterclockwise,

go in the back of Grimm's, open the gray door, there'll be a sign and go up the stairs.

And without fail, 90% of them were like, can we do that?

Yeah.

And I was like, I just told you to do it.

Yeah.

You know, like, but I spent all of my time.

When you put on events like that, you kind of got to think of it like you're hurting people

to all these things.

You know what I mean?

Because if, if like people at bike events will find their corner, just like a club or a

fucking bar and they'll stay right there the whole time, you know, because they're like,

I want to, I'm nervous.

It's like a lot of people.

It's, it's the Instagram effect of the world where, you know, people are kind of,

I'm that way, you know, like you get a little nervous.

So I'm like, Hey, I'm safe right here.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

That's what that definitely, I, if I, if I get locked in, I stay locked in.

Yeah.

This is my spot.

Like, I found that if I put AirPods in, you know, and I go and do my thing, I can, I don't

get stopped as much as kind of like a polite way of saying, Hey, you know,

Hey, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

I'm just going to shoot these.

I'm going to be over there and you know what I mean?

And it's like, they know, you know, it's more so that it's just like, they just want to be nice.

And no, that's the point.

This is somebody's, you're, you're dead right.

Like people are, they're trying to talk to me and tell me how excited you are about the show.

People, I didn't even make the show happen.

Yeah.

Like Carrie and Manny made the show happen.

Davey made the show happen.

Tommy made the show happen.

I had some ideas.

I was there for it.

I helped whatever.

Like it was, I was stoked.

But friends of mine and, and we're coming and finding me and be like, man,

this is amazing what you guys are doing for kids in the city.

And I was like, well, that feels good.

Yeah.

But I got to go and literally like, I got, I never made it.

The, the invited builder part was back there at Lemonade Park, which is around the corner.

And I made it back there twice.

It was getting texts because we needed like a microphone for the DJ and I needed to do something

else.

And my, and then my son was there and I, you know, a couple of different things.

And I was like, I never got photos.

Yeah.

I got four photos of the invited builders.

Well, that's, that's like just lessons learned that now you know that to be the

photographer of the event, you have to be everywhere.

You kind of might even need a second or third shooter.

You know what I mean?

And, and I'm also, I didn't, I thought that I would be able to,

because I've gone to a handful of shows, but not a ton and just want to run.

I do my thing.

Well, this isn't my thing.

This is their thing that I'm photographing.

Do you know what I mean?

Like a, yeah, but you could do it your way.

Yeah.

But like, I can't, I, I sh, I thought that, that there would be a itinerary for the show.

Yeah.

So introducing the invited builders, introducing Jackie Mann, David's widow,

who's upstairs signing autographs, like an emcee.

And at one point I was going to be the emcee and then another fellow was going to be the emcee.

And I wasn't sure at the end of it, like when it actually happened, I was like,

I don't know.

Like I'm, I'm not in charge of anything.

So I was just like, okay, cool.

I'm going to post up and listen to the emcee and follow along with the itinerary of the show.

Yeah.

But you're dead right though.

Like that's the point is I, I did learn like, hey man,

like nobody's going to tell me what to do.

Yeah.

They might ask me to do one or two specific things, but nobody's going to

tell me what to do overall.

I need a shoot list.

Yeah.

Shop.

Get these five things, James.

Get these five things.

Yeah.

Because one, I like motorcycles and I like people and I got overwhelmed just saying hi.

Yeah.

You know, and I, and I was like, we had a pre-party and we went to that Sam's place.

And then, you know, I, I was at home for two hours Friday night before the show Saturday.

And I was back up for the sunrise Rose and at the show.

Yeah.

Sometimes like utilizing dad and setting up shoots with certain bikes, like at sunrise.

Hey, I mean, you know the West bottoms probably.

And if not anything else around there, like the back of your hand is the good shots and

knowing where the light hits.

And do you see all those pictures of like Bobby Goodtimes and Tony's pictures on that bridge?

Yeah.

That's like a walking distance.

That's kind of a like the first time I stumbled upon this place, I was on my way to

fuck where I was driving up.

Yeah, that's what it was.

I was driving up and doing a big podcast loop.

And I went up and I tried to go do a podcast with Jeff Wright.

I went to his bar and it didn't work.

So I went to see the rapids and I looked back home and I stumbled.

I love slaps barbecue over there is like my favorite barbecue in America.

Like, I don't know if it's the best.

I'm not really a connoisseur.

I just fucking like it.

It's good.

I like Kansas City barbecue.

So I go there and I try it.

I eat it.

And then I look across and right there, you just have this beautiful view of the city

and all the bridges and the industrial aspect of it.

And at the time that one main bridge was closed.

Central Street Bridge.

So is it still closed?

Or have they since opened?

And you can you can go under it.

You can go under it and the bridge underneath of this metal mesh.

So when you're walking along, it's two stories.

Yeah.

And you can see the water.

Was it metal?

Great.

Yeah.

I think it's for when the water came up.

Yeah.

Entirely certain.

But yeah, it's it's still closed.

I think they're going to blow it up.

For real.

So I did that.

I saw it and then I was shooting film on this trip.

No idea what the fuck I was doing.

I was literally the first two months of having a film camera.

So I went down into the to the area because I stayed in Topeka the night before

and shot some or stayed there, woke up early, was over here.

Lunch.

But it was a cloudy day.

And I was just like this fucking place is amazing.

Like I literally fell in love with it.

That night at the hotel, I'm on YouTube looking up all the history,

knowing about the floods and the stock exchange and all the things that

it took place down here.

And but I just and there used to be a building.

I think they tore it down that like everybody will wheel.

Yeah.

And they would go in there.

Yeah.

Me and my actually the first time I took my camera out walking,

me and my daughter tried it off, apply one panel and climbed in there.

Yeah.

Being June went in there and and I've got some killer pictures on the on the

roof of that building, looking back at the 12th Street Bridge.

Yeah.

And it's gone now.

The ship look you should look out the front door of the ship.

So just think about like what what I love about photography is that

you have a shot that nobody else is ever going to be able to get it.

It's down.

I have a I have a picture.

I think about that every time I put in the stories or something as a picture of

the ship building and all those bricks.

My daughter lives in a loft above her boyfriend and they have a tattoo shop

right around the corner from there.

We're actually in the building that Blippi used to be in.

And it's it's that because that would be southern view from the top of a

welled wheel.

And I'm always like that is never going to happen again until they're about if

they're going to build an apartment complex type of building there.

So that's what I'm worried about there.

That's the thing that scares me is like and I was asking about how things are

done here as far as like it's over.

It's been bought and sold already.

We're living in the we're living in the end times of the West Bottoms.

True.

They raised the property taxes on this place 200 percent this year.

So they're trying to get this property tax for this building $25,000 or $30,000.

So this will this will all be he'll have to figure out a different way to run his business

or sell it.

Yeah, that's the same.

They're just it's like the city's kind of trying to gentrify it.

The county they did it to me too.

I bought my house and my my house payment is about a third more than it was two years ago.

So their claim is that they're behind in assessing your taxes.

The state law is once they do assess your taxes they cannot increment incrementally raise them.

They have to tax you for the true value of your home.

And I'm like cool, dude, but nothing's changed on this 11918 house.

Nothing has changed in 20 years.

And there's been literally two murders in my driveway this year.

Like my neighbor's grandson got shot like a hundred times in front of my house.

And like, you know, where I live is like a known hot spot.

So for a good time or a bad time?

Both. Most.

If you put my my house into your GPS, it'll show you the first thing you want.

Before it tells you my house, it's like tech nine's childhood home is two doors down.

But I live in the 50s, which is it's a hot spot.

It's always been a hot spot for for for gun violence and lots of things.

Like I live on this block and on the next on the same block as me is a liquor store called Paul's.

That's where like E 40 came to town when he and he introduced his E 40s.

Yeah.

To sell like that was the spot like it's a great neighborhood.

I've been around there forever.

It's not a problem.

But like point is is is my my property taxes doubled.

Yeah.

So if that keeps going by the time I pay my house off, I'll have a house payment in taxes.

Me. So that's insane.

One of the cities because we're in the county that does that the city's

Lee Summit sued Kansas City, Missouri.

And I got a letter saying it went back.

So my taxes went from like 1500 a year to $4000 a year and then back down.

Yeah, they're doing some because Texas has always been known for having very high property taxes.

And they're trying to do like a freeze on it to where it's like it doesn't go up anymore or

some shit like that.

I don't know.

California has a thing.

Yeah.

Topher was telling me and it's called like article eight or prospect eight or nine,

whatever it's called.

You buy your house today.

You have a property value assessment.

They base the taxes on that.

That's your taxes forever.

Yeah.

Lest you sell the house.

Which is fair because like like some of my neighbors don't don't like people

but moving into the neighborhood because they'll move into the neighborhood put $100,000 into

an $80,000 house and that's what's raising the taxes.

They're literally like buying old craftsmen homes, tearing them to the ground and building

like a cement cylinder full of windows.

And now this person who's retired their property taxes have tripled and they live next door to

a half a million dollar house where they used to live next to a $30,000 house.

Yeah.

So my house, the flipper who I got my house from bought it six months earlier and made

$100,000 I think.

That damn.

Right.

And I met my wife four doors straight back at a friend's house in 1998

and they wouldn't buy that house from their stepdad for 30 grand.

It was too much trouble.

That house by the way the house is still there same paint on it and everything else is fine.

Yeah.

It's a nice house.

Yeah.

You know.

So Kansas City strange like that it's it blew up.

It got really popular.

It got popular with itself.

Lots of Kansas City logos on everything.

Yeah.

I love this place.

I've lived all over the country.

I was born in Illinois elementary school in Arizona.

Went to school in Southern California for a little while and they moved to St. Louis.

I went to 15 schools growing up and I've left Kansas City twice.

Because I had like an opportunity to own a restaurant in Massachusetts or run a restaurant.

Have my own restaurant with a type of deal.

And a couple other things.

I moved to Illinois because I want to put my wife through nursing school.

And I was like oh I can go live here cheap and have one income and like not have to live

in a semi truck anymore.

I was pretty burnt out on that.

And every time I get homesick for this place for every time and it's the it's the people

ultimately it's it is the people like I'm like I know that I can go I know I can go to

Oklahoma and hang out the Oklahoma's those guys rule.

Those are my people like those guys are all red.

You know I could and if I had to leave somewhere that's how I would do it.

Yeah.

I would be like oh I'm going to go to Austin because I know some people in Austin.

You know I would go to Salt Lake because Jay and all those guys at Salt Lake are great.

Yeah.

But I don't think I could move to nowhere.

All right I shouldn't say that because I shouldn't move.

I wouldn't move to anywhere where I didn't know people already.

Yeah.

Because I don't know that that to me like being surrounded by people that you like

versus people that you're you know okay with being around.

Yeah.

You know like I I mean you know I'm I'm Dallas born and raised still pretty much in the city

or I'm in the suburbs can't afford to be in the city anymore.

It's just it's way too expensive there.

But like like in Oklahoma City looks pretty good dude.

It's got a vibe.

It's kind of cheap.

Tulsa looks pretty damn good.

You know.

I've been to Tulsa a hundred hundreds of times.

Yeah.

I'm driving.

I've never been out of my truck at Tulsa.

For real.

But driving around it kind of gives me Arizona vibes.

If you get up to lakes and stuff the house is in the in the in the lots of ranch style homes

and you know kind of mid-century style.

There's a bunch of dudes in OKC and Tulsa that do sick stuff.

Some of them come up here and hang out you know like it's it's all

the punk rock scene in the skateboard scene.

So like every time I meet somebody they're like BJ good times you know and he has a shop in Hayes

Kansas.

I met him through the Oklahoma's guys and that whole thing because they used to do a little

yeah we could get about things.

And he he came up here for a show.

We went he went I think it was I guess Charlie Crockett or is Charlie Crockett.

He's here for Charlie Crockett.

I met him up there and hung out.

He said I used to come here for all these punk shows.

I used to come here for this and I used to come here for that.

And I'm like it never fails dude.

It never fails.

It's like it's the same highways the same arteries the same patterns of like skateboarding

motorcycles punk rock and also photography.

If you like if you look at the the biggest the best photographers or directors from the past 40

years half of them were skate skateboarding punk rock like from Glenn Friedman to a Tiba.

I'm like there's no arguing like like those guys I've got a guy I'm talking to pretty regular

about a book he's a publisher and that was that's my idea for a book is like the strange

overlap between photography skateboarding and motorcycling and to me it always comes down to

the it's a good way to waste time.

It's the waste isn't the right word but it's like this like like a like a

if you're skating you're not thinking about anything else.

Yeah.

So right the same thing with we are on your motorcycle you're not thinking about anything

else and if you're the thing when people come up and talk to you and you're doing the thing I

can't talk and do my thing at the same time and it's like a flow state situation with your brain

and if somebody tells me hey take a picture of that that's never going to be a good picture

it never works out.

It's not a staged photo shoot is another thing like if somebody's just if I'm cruising around

and somebody's seeing a stranger see even the camera and I'm doing my thing and they're like

take a picture of that bird over there it's really cool.

I'm like I just do it and move on but it's never it's never I never my brain never locks

in and my camera never gets the picture you know but there's a around here the through

Instagram and through punk rock motorcycling it's all the same traffic.

Yeah.

Of people you know.

I think the show here is I mean we we had every intention of coming up for it and then

the born free build we were doing for Texas was just like I had I could not shield myself away.

I'm not surprised you know it's a big deal and so because I this is the least traveling I've

ever done or not ever but the least traveling done in probably the last seven or eight years

really and there's a part of it that is allowing me to get I progressed in other areas of my life

but yet the things that I feel like are me I haven't really had a chance to do much of it

least I photographed in five six seven years definitely at least miles I put down on a bike

so there's a part of me that's like I need to have things like this and getting a lot because

we have a lot of homies that go to bike night that are really good into photography and like I

I want to go do a trip with just my buddies and cameras like no if you ain't on the camera kick

this you're not invited that way it's like when we're sitting around a fire we all want to get

up at the sunrise we all want to go shoot that shit we all want to stop at that rundown you know

gas station or whatever that actually that is amazing yeah that's amazing that's what I'm trying

to kick it off it's time it's basically that but I think I'm gonna try to start doing some small

things little coffee shop meetups on a Sunday and then go go rip around and you know shoot each

other you know it's just shooting the cameras like all that really matters and when I get around

other people shooting like having conversations like this I get much more inspired and want to

get out and do stuff I have I have a couple of friends that most strangely online I have more

photographer friends online than I do in my personal life I have you know you know it is people people

are awesome people will just reach out and encourage you yeah yeah you know uh like today the thing

the origins episode that they're releasing for carry yeah I was talking to him about about that

about the that's coming out today and he messaged me and was like yeah man like I gave you a credit

in that origins thing like he's like I gotta thank you credit at the end of it I was like what

it's like for for being encouraging and like I share all this stuff and like just like dude I'm

stoked you're doing stuff I'm not competitive like yeah as if I I'm not even doing the same thing

but I don't have a in me if you're doing if you're succeeding then like there's this is endless oh

yeah yeah like you can I'm a friend of mine here bought a camera I should start that over one day

when I was leading the rides out of here I'm like you coming you come in and people literally

everyone was like I can go like everybody's invited dude you coming are you coming are you

that's a child you can't come little child yeah yeah right and I'm like you can't come

that's an actual child well his picture on his motorcycles hanging in this next room

and me and him hang out now yeah he went to the marines he got a camera lived in California

got really good at photography quit doing it he rides with the move back here he rides with us now

uh and uh Oliver and he's uh he's awesome but he got a new camera this summer and he right here

simultaneously showed me how masking worked by the way that's how I learned it and then he said

I've ordered a new cameraman but don't worry I'm not going to steal your shots and he's like but I do

like uh how you edit and I was like you can you're a big boy he's a big kid like you can sit on my

shoulders and take the exact same picture as me and if they look exactly alike good yeah that

means we both did it right but like you're my friend we're taking a picture of our friend

like there's like we could both eat dude there's plenty of food like I feel like a lot of people

do when I first started picking up the camera some of the some of my mentors early on I felt kind of

I felt like I I didn't want to get in their way because my intention was never to do that

but I'm inspired by them so naturally I'm going to be I'm going to shoot I'm going to try to shoot

their way until that becomes a tool and then I can apply my version of that to it oh 100%

like when I learned that airbrush I had to follow airbrush artists that I was in love with

and then I'm like I've man I just if I could just do that skull the thing is back in the day

we didn't have Instagram I just did it on the helmet and then it it existed in one area code in

the world now it's like the photo or the airbrush thing or whatever it is that I did that I was

inspired by somebody gets shared so that's why I've always done a really I've done my due diligence

to give credit for where inspiration comes from that's good you know what I mean yeah I think I

think people I think people saying think here fake it till you make it and they think it's a

negative thing I don't yeah don't I think I think everything from tat like tattoos there's

I mean you either did a tattoo or you failed at doing the tattoo right but like traditional tattoos

you're trying to dial in this specific look well that's a specific look that's going to be

Bert Graham or Sailor Jerry or Ed Hardy like that's what you're shooting for is these there's

you know it's like if you you if you mimic what they're doing then you're doing it correctly and

you nail it there's nothing wrong with that if you're out here and your the the style you like is

Michael Lichter style and you you're like how did he do that like if you're paying attention and

you mimic his and then you eventually develop your own voice that's awesome yeah but that's

what it is though right because I mean there's if you pick your top three photographers that you

think you're inspired by those things are going to be kind of the makeup at least a lot of the

inspiration of your style and then over time you won't really see you'll see parts of them

and more of this new thing that's created through you and that's where that's that's how all art is

done it's just that we live in a world where like you could see the first day I picked up a camera

it's on Instagram you scroll all the mind my back to where it's just iPhone pictures of my kids on

a pontoon boat yeah like I don't have I started a just photography pod I guess uh Instagram that was

open to the public my stuff my kids on it was not and it got it was exhausting yeah you know

then my kids got older and we they were like not hanging out as much and I'm like I was posting

things on both spots because I really wanted my friends to see but it's like this is ridiculous

yeah you know yeah social media is not really social anymore it's just media so it's like

you know that I like I have a personal page and in the fast life garage then I have a photography

page and I struggle to get stuff on the photography page because I feel like I can't keep up with what

I need to do on on the regular garage page and then it's like I feel like when I look at my personal

page it's like oh yeah I need to show I need to put someone to my grandmother can see you know

whatever but it's it's just not it's I feel more reserved like I don't want to put that much of my

personal life on there and that's the only thing that would really go there because that's a personal

Instagram page it was great 15 years ago or 12 years ago or whatever but now it's just kind of

like man I don't really want to show people like the the way I just garden my yard or

fucking I like who cares and that I think that especially when it comes to like it like my

it's all in one for me now so I think it's important to like

like if you're just a bot creating motorcycle photography and putting it out there with like

no voice or no identity why would anybody care you got to mean like you're just pumping out

Sears catalog photos of motorcycles you know another bike in front of a brick wall it doesn't

matter there's millions of bikes what people care about it that's your purple bike yeah I took

pictures of your bike at Chopper Fest you know what I mean like laid on the ground I got a picture

of your bike you know like like and we didn't know each other yeah but but like I was like oh these

all these bikes are amazing but that's a chopper show there's so many amazing bikes you know but I

do think like like the day-to-day matters as far as like communicating with people and being a human

being on there if you're just an asshole who's like look at my pictures I'm great isn't this great

I'm like well I mean again it could be just a picture of a bike that's what if you don't have a

story if you don't have a personality if it isn't a little bit of you in there yeah then it's just

a picture of a motorcycle and you can strangely you can usually tell yeah you know but I do see

what you're saying though like like trying not to be in people's way and like not like when you're

saying about when you first got started like mimicking people even when at Texas I was I

I had that 13 millimeter on there I have to get close yeah and when they were doing all the stage

stuff and I was like oh here's Ben I know who he is I don't know who any of these other people

are by their faces but I bet I followed them yeah Mr. Photography Bobby is one of the main ones that

shoots for a lot of the Texas events he's a great friend of mine too I follow him but I don't know

what he looks like and I there was a guy there had a long he had a I was talking to him for a while

and I couldn't believe I didn't introduce myself to him because he we're both I was wanting to let him

go take his pictures but he was he had a long black and white like 300 like 80 to 300 uh-huh

it was it was adjusted to fit his camera so it's all manual focus we stopped and talked to each

other a couple times and he him and Derek are the only photographers I talked to that day because

I was like I was right there with like you saw my pictures by the stage yeah and I'm like well

I'm trying to get in here and do this but also like I'm just here to hang out like these people

are working that's their somebody somebody here it's their job let me get the hell out you want

to know a secret about having a camera it's all access yeah if you look like you belong you belong

and so I someone told me that or Michael Lichter told me that a long time ago and so when I go to

those events I go get in the track I I mean I I just what the fuck dude I got this camera I'm here

to shoot you know I'm saying you want the content yeah this is what's going to sell your event next

year so amazing so it's like I just just do it you know it's but do it within reason don't get on

stage you get in their face but like find it find a composition and you know get some shots you know

saying I just kept finding myself backing off like uh Mike he has the the brown bike with all the

molding on it it's fan oh man I feel bad brown bike uh was it in the brown shovel head it was in the

show and it was here at chopper fest and it's Mike Vander I think I know you're talking about I don't

know mostly though anyway like I these I felt like they're working and I'm I'm here just doing it

for myself so if you're working man I'm more than happy to get out of your way like I'm never gonna

and you know it is like I I use that third I love that 13 millimeter because I'm taking a picture of

that bike and this person thinks they're safe yeah and I get a good candid photo a guy and his girl

being human beings yeah and looking at the same motorcycle that I was taking a picture of you

know would you say it's almost sometimes a street photography approach of like capturing

you know because that's a lot of candid if you really that's that is exactly how I describe it

when I have to is I do I like to think of a I do street photography of motorcycles in fields yeah

yeah just in general in general yeah like I try to it's the framing matters more than the focus

you know like that kind of thing to me yeah for sure for sure yeah you just said the focus that's

also the thing about film that you don't realize that like when you shoot digital and you shoot

a series of 10 photos of kind of the same frame like you're looking for that perfect reflection or

the perfect not having whatever but when you shoot film and and you get the shot you love but it's

like a little bit out of focus like I don't know why I still love this like I don't want to I'm not

going to discard it the same way I would discard it another film so that made me so when I would shoot

I have every photo even the ones that are fucked I would keep them because then I now that I see it

I can go back and be like okay I do even though this is more abstract art now than it is anything

else but it's it's definitely like something that I dig and I don't know I don't have a home for it

yet like I don't know if it's I don't know where to put it but I like it and I'm it's still in the

archive you know yeah I uh not not being a trained photographer not knowing what I'm doing you know

then you pick up on lingo and I'm like oh this guy they like I listen to podcasts and I listen to

I'm truck driving like oh they call that pixel peeping where you just constantly scroll in yeah

and I got ate up with it for a little while you know I was like oh none of my pictures are any good

none of my pictures like this this picture is not good this picture is not good and I'm like

if you scroll into it it gets blurry and my wife's like go to Harley's page scroll into their photos

and I was like well shit yeah I'm good enough to be in Harley's that you know I see man like that

I've I've gone through the same phase too and and I think that's an attestment because I think the

YouTube has probably been your teacher as well as mine if I would have graduated high school if

they had YouTube in high school 100 and so for me it's like you can you can gather too much

information from YouTube and it can there's like a happy meeting where you need to learn the triangle

learn some composition rules and basics and then stop and then go shoot use that's what I that's

why I always that's what I've seen earlier is like learn your skill and make your choices to make and

use apply your choices to make the thing you want yeah so that picture up there is we I'm on my

bikes yeah we're on the Broadway bridge which is now gone that maroon that red bridge behind it

that's the new bridge they're building they blew the old bridge up we're doing 50 miles an hour

through Kansas City traffic Kansas City is like one of the most dangerous cities in the country to

drive yeah it's not a the road over the river like it's it's pretty intense now I get those photos

doing that even on these streets around us right now yeah and I get all bummed out if it's blurry

and then but then that one is is is pretty good as far as the focus

and then one day somebody said how do you do that you just stand on the side of the road and I was

like what the hell yeah because they they they think I got like a 300 like I'm I'm in a tree

somewhere yeah and I'm like oh my god dude I know I gotta start doing this so that you can see

me yeah that's like where the GoPro can come back into play oh no I just used that 13 and

I'd back it up a little bit you see your leg or can you can see my edge of my handlebar you can

see my wheels shooting through the bars you know you can see my camera strap and a lot of them I

wouldn't use those and then I was like well wait a minute I'm looking for all these all these

somebody else's rules of what's successful or or perfect and I'm like you know man like

I can I can use not flaws but like things that would make it not perfect

show motion it shows that I'm there you know I'm like oh that's kind of cool so

perfect can make it boring exactly so I chasing perfection gets boring right and so I'm like

okay well like some of these if I crop their feet off in that photo people think we're parked

because that's like 500 or a thousand at like nine o'clock on the morning on our way here from our

house by the way yeah yeah just like a literally you can see the bridge if you walk out in the street

so everybody if the if his feet were cropped off which actually that's a bad print I got

sent to me wrong it's the half the wheels missing in that print but I got the whole bike in the

actual photo but the it just taught me looking at them and and like oh like perfect is not good

because I'm not this isn't I'm not doing science

like oh here's a perfect photo it's like well I can not I don't think that Instagram is a great

the reactions and likes and stuff on Instagram is not a great yeah thermometer by which to measure

or metric by which to measure don't value it is or if it's valuable but

a little bit of it is because people they're human if it is not a robot if it's human beings

they're like I like this photo I'm like you like this photo well guess what

if if the if everybody likes it and I liked it and I put it out there and I'm like this is what

I meant to make like I like that it's blurry I like that it's not perfect yeah you know then

and I'm happy with it then that's what I meant to make then we're done here

first of all if you don't like it I don't care yeah and then somebody said something about

building a bike you know like well if somebody gets on the ground and looks at it they're gonna

see that and I'm like if you get down on the ground and look at my bike to pick it apart I might kick

you in your ass yeah like we're not friends yeah like I don't care what you think like I came here

to have fun yeah like if you're picking my bike apart like this is the nice guy's car show and

you've got like a mirror yeah a flashlight man piss off like I've had my I've had lictor and some

other uh photographers like critique my work which I thought was very valuable but it hurts though

right no it's more so when you have a real like lictor's are real trained like doing it since I

before I was born kind of dude so he's not critiquing to uh like he's just being objective right no

so he's looking at he's looking at it for a few different like key points basing his opinion off

of his own personal taste so if I asked you to critique my work you would use your version of

photography to give me what you think you would have done differently maybe it's in the edit the

crop the composition things like that so that's what it is it's not to base it off of what traditionally

it should be done like you could say you know what I I critiqued other people's work for them and I

got to some photos you know what man like there's nothing here that I would have ever done but I

love this this image and it's like one of those things it's kind of like what you were talking

about it's uh you know do you know who Tim O'Keefe is one of my favorite photographers and a mentor

and he shoots in a way that I never could shoot like he crops in ways like not crops like he he

gets in he takes the photo of the chick and happer heads off or you know arm or whatever I'm like

oh dude like I love this photo but I I cannot I cannot muster to shoot that way you know and

if I crop in that way I feel inauthentic you know what I mean no 100% he kind of shoots people

like carbs exactly what I was going to say exactly like I was getting that detail you're

shooting through this to get the exhaust tip he shoots people like that and you know now the

horses and the and the in that culture he's shooting is I think he's a killer yeah he is and

he's very intentional yeah there's I have a I have a handful of people that um

that I talk to online and and it's blown me away it's been really nice you know like people

encouraging you people and just being positive my ultimate theory on our opinion on Instagram or

any of that kind of stuff is you can you can eat the icing off that and walk away yeah you take

well you could take from it whatever you want you know I have friends who are like it's too

overwhelming there's too much politics I was like unfollow them yeah or mute them if it's your parents

you know like just I'm not picking up anything I don't want so I have a handful of people who are

like they're encouraging me but I don't have anybody that I've sent my stuff to or asked like

hey what should I be doing different what should I be doing more or less of am I being repetitive

I don't have any of that and I could see that being being uh beneficial it would be super

emotional for me the first time especially if it was in person yeah I would love to send somebody

50 pictures and say chew those up and tell me what it tastes like let me let me know what you

think but I don't know if I want to sit here with you and have you point at it yeah the first

time I've just never done it wait it's all like I said again it's all objective so it's just like

if I was shooting this I would be asking myself why is this in the corner but here's the deal they

don't know why you left it in the corner and sometimes that's a conversation and that and

the other it's it's really not like I think the critiquing thing is not it's not like Instagram

critique oh this photo sucks yeah no this is like the other dude's photo or whatever it's not that

it's more so like photographer photographer you know hey what was the aperture you shot this at

what was the shutter speed and they might be like well I might have shot this at a higher shutter

speed and lower aperture for aperture for this reason or not or blah blah blah or I can see that

you know what I mean so it's just it's just if you if you are admire their work then their take

on what you shot helps you kind of see from their that is a hundred true I'm literally just saying

that like I don't want my feelings hurt oh yeah yeah I'm not prepared to have my feelings hurt

right now which I should I said it looks like it's art art it's a I think when I picked up a camera

and I started shooting what I shot and I see it in your work a lot like there's like a there's a

connection and a vulnerability to it or there's a there's a sensitivity to it and because it's

more than just a picture it's a moment that you experienced and there's a lot more to it and for

the world it's just the shot of a bike and some light streaks but for you it's it's a much different

experience it's it's a it's a place in your life and things like that so it can be very hard to open

up to the world and be like yo like check it out like what do you think because they don't know the

story behind it yeah you know yeah I when well I worked at a tattoo shop and I would always say I

like my tattoo traditional tattoos I like them to look like belt buckles if it's not if it can't

sustain itself as a belt buckle it's not a tattoo a traditional tattoo has to be all encompassing

like self yeah like it has to be one thing almost yeah it's like this bulldog if there's nothing else

is a bulldog yeah end of story you shouldn't need another thing another part you know and then

I kind of when I started doing photography I was like everything has to be an album cover

not like officially like worthy of but like and there now there's an instagram that's like

shooting everything it's an album cover and it's hilarious but I meant it when I thought of it as

far as like hey man what what would you know what what I'm on the side of the road I'm walking

around at Arby's in in Carthage Missouri like I got my computer requires me to do a 30 minute

break in the truck I'm just walking around and holy shit there's cars in the woods behind the

Arby's on 49 at the Carthage Missouri exit you're gonna drive right by it if you go that way now you

so everything is an album cover if you just look at it like that and it's like okay so that's

in my head I was like you know it's how I I looked at it was like okay this is worthy of

this is this is it yeah when I'm looking you know and to be honest a lot of times I just

looked in the camera and was like yeah that's the picture click yeah and then later on I realized

what I was doing I was like oh this is all from the same angle and from this you know kind of

instinctively doing the rule of thirds and all these things were just like this this looks good

you know and then but it uh later on whether I was doing motorcycles or truck driving or

long exposure photos and a couple people pointed out they're like oh I knew that somebody shared it

that's what it was somebody picked up one of my photos and shared it and they were like and I had

that other account and it was the it was the is the national conservancy which is like a wildlife

thing and I entered a contest I'm a picture of a deer on the side of the road with light trails

going by it that deer was stunned you know we have a strange overlap with motorcycles I passed a big

pack of gold wingers in my semi and then here's this deer stunned like kind of out toward the edge of

the lane I'm like well that's not right and I honked my horn the deer didn't move he's like sitting

like a dog right on the edge of the road so I pulled over to like throw my flashers on and make them

the gold wingers get go to the far side of the lane and they never showed up they must have taken

an exit this is right by Nevada Missouri on 49th so I pulled my camera out I'm like he ain't moving

like I've I pushed him like hey dude go he's just not moving and I'm like so I call

non-emergency police I'm like hey I don't know who you guys call for this but this guy's gonna

jump off of here and hurt somebody's family so like come get this dude

so I set my camera up I take the picture and it's a picture of this deer and light trails and you

can see the the tail end of my semi in the background and I entered I pulled like a mile down the road

into that love their pilot and I I opened my phone literally it's like entry your photo wildlife photo

in a contest I'm like go right and my photos on their website on their Instagram and everything

of like thousands of likes and like I'm in there and it was in their contest with like

competing numbers and these with all these dudes who are like in Alaska with like 12 foot long

cameras and like budgets and I was like that's hilarious but somebody saw that photo and said

I knew that was your photo even though that wasn't your Instagram and I was like

interesting not just because the light trails and then I'm like interesting and then somebody

else shared one of my photos and you know early at that point in Instagram nobody would give you

credit for anything and that's yeah it wasn't a big deal but so he's like oh it looks like your

photo this looks like one of your photos I could tell it was one of your photos right away and I

was like I like that because it's not my regular photo but you still knew it was it wasn't a motorcycle

it wasn't one of my regular photos but you can tell it's mine you know and then what you're saying

earlier multiple people the two compliments I like the best are you're taking the pictures that

David Mann would paint as a painting yeah and I'm like oh man like that is really cool yeah

I really I really appreciated hearing that and the other one is your photos are lonely

there's a loneliness to your photos and I was like well I started it at probably the weirdest

loneliness time of my life living in that semi-truck was a fucking bummer

yeah and like life stuff happens when you're in a semi-truck and you're not going to you're not

going to be there yeah you know like I did not enjoy that part of missing out on life

and I was like oh that was definitely there and these photos and all I was doing

was parking on the side of the road taking pictures of the highway yeah you know that's

cool that it translated through the images and the way you shot it but it clearly it was it was

the way you probably felt a hundred percent a hundred percent like alone on the highway yeah and then

one day I was I was sitting there at that Winslow exit the daytime making coffee in the semi

and I opened up Instagram and I got a message from Jeff Wright and he's like hey man do you want to

be in dice and I was like I had only been taking pictures like a year okay so I was always I was

Jeff follows me that's crazy yeah yeah and then I was like well yeah I got me in a semi

and I have all the Jeff Wright or the Church of FTW co-postcards ringing the inside of my semi you

can't put stickers in them because it's a company truck but I used double sided tape and I had all

those in there and I was like I read it like three times like it's not Jeff Wright spelled different

you know it's like yeah that's him that's cool and I'm like this is where and then I I was like

he's like I like your long exposure stuff oh cool so I took those photos and he was like

those are cool but fuck motorcycles man just give me all your truck driver photos like it's

he's like all your stuff hits me because it it's life on the road like everybody has to travel

but you're only traveling yeah he's like so like give me life on the road photos

and I was like oh here I got a thousand of those yeah you know I got a bunch of those and he ran them

and I was like that's cool it's way should it come out in 86 I think I have that issue I have to

go back through that it's the church it's the church the church of choppers issue like oh okay

they don't know that one yeah he's the it's like not the producer what do you call that better

somehow yeah like he chose everybody to begin it and everything it's also the most hated it was

a lot of sport bikes in there yeah like that in there yeah it was a blast watching dean just

light people up because they'd be on instagram like give me my money back this is a car truck at

magazine now and he's like ah no problem goodbye yeah feel like what I'm doing see ya yeah dean

rules I don't know him but dean rules you know but it is interesting to me see what translates

like when I you post something and people say things and I'm like oh

like you see you see when I was what I was doing right there and that's

like it's fun like it's it's fun to communicate with people I don't like the type of bunch of words

yeah yeah I was like I don't enjoy that as much it seems like you you you missed

which is good the phase of this if you kind of come in in this generation of it of like

getting to the point where you feel like you always got to get a better camera like your camera's

holding you back and that's I went through a phase not that it held me back but I went through a

phase where I was like oh the new mark two is coming out let me see what that's about it's where

I like I had to do that a lot and now I'm at a point now where I understand it I'm like I can

do with this camera I can do it with you know the the film or the phone or whatever

not saying I can just like win every time but like I I I'm not allowing myself to get the

into that phase of where I feel like I need something to be able to do the thing you know

gear acquisition syndrome or whatever they call that camera's big and that's hard to just whip out

a lot so when you know you talked about Ben christensen and a lot of the dudes my other buddy

Josh he does a lot of stuff for Harley he does the two lane life stuff he has a Leica they do

those q3s now they they they're huge files like 50 or 60 megabyte files they're fucking you know

which is really similar to what the uh the the fuji's are I don't know if it's not the one you

guys said there's another fuji that's kind of like a it's not full frame it's yeah it's crop

censored no but it's uh what's the word for it though it's like half frame yeah yeah do you want

to talk about yeah I it's the xh1 or something like that yeah h something there's two of them

and yeah like you need to have an external hard drive to own this camera yeah yeah and it's like

oh my gosh like billboard camera yeah so there's a part of me that's like okay well that's the only

thing I've considered right I've considered doing something like that which I don't have the money

for but I I have a great credit card for camera stuff so every year I'll buy one piece of equipment

and pay it off through the year and then next year I'll buy another piece of equipment so I'll buy a

lot of lenses and things like that and next year I'm like well fuck maybe I should buy that camera

if it'll help me shoot more because I am not having to pull the big boy out all the time you know

yeah I mean the the crop sensor cameras are as I've because everyone that's why like I didn't

even own flashes yeah until I tried to go to mama tried two years ago and foodies are not good in the

dark yeah at all like they're the low light and is not great so uh I got a cut to like 100s

godox 100s around the little ones yeah and I got those and it's a lot man it's a lot to learn how

to use them and then my photos don't look like my photos so I was like trying to dial that in I was

like I'm gonna use these gels so I can get light but it doesn't I can match the light to the light

that's in the room and those came with that yeah and just learning how to do it setting it up and

it helped with concerts like Ricky's band play is and stuff like that like uh I travel with that

when I do my bike travels I put that 100 in there and if you get to a place you get a badass sunset

well obviously if you're shooting a sunset with your bike you got the dark side right so it's

like that that fill helps create stuff but it is like a weird one sometimes you'll be shooting the

shot but you'll be I'm just be stretched out way up here or I'll try to get created with another

angle and a lot of my stuff but the problem with flash I overthink a lot of shit when I do stuff

right so I get into a phase where all I I haven't used a flash proper in a while but I went through

a phase where I only use the flash like two years and if I wasn't using a flash I really don't

it's I don't like those shots and then I started shooting film a little bit and then I wanted all

my stuff to be more brighter and like less moody and and so the flash creates a lot of moody and

separation and I wanted everything to be like more film like so I started shooting a little bit more

overexposed and now I'm I really haven't even had a chance to see what the fuck I like this year

because I've had a chance to shoot much you know so I was afraid that my stuff was all moody to

begin with and without a flash and then which I liked and uh it's like saturated in color but

kind of muted yeah you know but then I was afraid the flash would make it all everything looks staged

or too bright then honestly talking to Kerry and a couple other people listening to interviews and

I'm like oh I take art photos but I'm sent I sent him a handful of art photos for a magazine but

he's a chopper magazine magazine so or magazine yeah so they want to see the detail of the motor

I sent him that I sent him a hitchhiker fresh off the train with Davey's knucklehead I sent him a

whole series of those photos because by the way that guy walked up to this photo shoot in front

of this malt shop place uh and you know how it is every time you're at a gas station some guys

like hey man what you're your knucklehead and it's like it's an Evo you know this dude that guy who I

have no idea who he is had been hopping trains and ended up right where we're at he immediately

walked up and was talking linkered cards and early Ireland nest builds he was the one at random

walk up yeah who had like chopper knowledge it was amazing no those kind of photos I love you

you had a bunch of that stuff to have those older style buildings like you were saying you don't

want the signage to look so new you know that one actually is going to go in Jeff Wright's bar okay

there's a big one of those going in GT lounge this year I believe yeah he's going to print it and put

it up but yeah I the flash is but all the equipment stuff is is interesting but first of all

I'm limited by money yeah I've gotten zero so I got the XT1 and it's slow but I love I was using it

today we were at Puke shop everybody's hanging out drinking beers and it's got the the screen the back

tips up okay I have the XT4 which they made for youtubers it flips out to the side yeah

so I can go like old brownie style with the XT1 and be looking at my camera and I'm not looking at

you yeah it's my eyes that make you change your behavior yeah so I'm like click and it's cool

but my XT4 it flips off to the side and it's kind of weird to line it up and stuff it's yeah

what you mean so if I do get another camera it'll either be the XT5 because the XT5 went back to that

or the Sony because of the light the low light issue but I don't want to get another camera but

I've literally only owned three lenses and two cameras and that's it and that's all I and I just

got that gray bag right there Jason I am he gave me two 200 lights with the diffuser and umbrella

and like handheld and I used those to take some pictures

at the beginning of Chopper Fest here in Kansas City and then the sun came up

that's what he gave me to me for and I'm like oh these oh I just took some pictures in the caves

and I used them take pictures of them and in the caves and I used that thing quite a bit

and it was very cool because it was soft yeah it wasn't harsh because the caves were you know

David Mann cave painting those are here yeah and I drive trucking them they're food warehouses

and stuff yeah they're huge like a million square feet in that one there's 10 of them here in town

and that one is a million square feet of storage so we but I took some photos in there and I used it

but I don't I can't even like I go to like learn how to use some of the flashes and stuff

and they're talking and I can't care it's like I went to this dude's youtube who's helped me a lot

yeah and he's talking tech and I'm like falling over tired like I don't care dude yeah yeah I would

really love you to show me how to do the one thing I want to do so I can go do it yeah and that's

just some people in there it's the best way to do it if you get the gist down there's a nerd version

of using that shit where you're pretty much pulling a light meter out everywhere and you're

dialing this one to you know this over that man there's one or TTL whatever you just turn the

motherfucker on hit it with oh too hot let me just adjust this just that it just it becomes like another

it becomes a square instead of a triangle right so now you have another thing to adjust to create

something like I was walking around mama tried the day I got it and it had never used it like the

night before I used it for like an hour did my it's like man I gotta have these I gotta I gotta

try something yeah you know to me get this get these photos in the dark and I gotta do this like

I got them they showed up like two days before but I worked and like so I watched the videos and I

used them and I'm walking around like a jerk dude just lighten up people with this big ass

flash my camera is tiny so it's tipping over yeah and uh oh my gosh uh Liam uh chopper chug

yeah walks over me and goes uh what is that uh like a whatever you asked me you asked me something

about my flash or my camera and I was like oh it's this and this I was like I just got this thing

I'm learning how to use it it's like well my boosts upstairs if you come up there tomorrow morning

I'll walk you through it like I'm telling you on all that stuff I knew I know who he is and what

he does yeah I was like cool man but I wasn't gonna take his time at the show to like yeah you need

a little class you know I should I mean if he offered then he'll do it you know oh yeah for sure

for sure but I was just like you know I was just walking around the bar blowing people's eyeballs

out like ass dude like ass if you did that I would be if we went together and you did that I'd be like

come on dude and I was like I was like I told myself I gotta jump in jump in both feet you gotta

do it you know like honestly man if you if you're carrying around and you act like you're supposed

to be there most people dig it because like Bobby I was telling you that Mr. Photography that's his

gig he goes to places he carries a big flash around and he's like you want to get and then you

everybody yeah you get the poses right I okay and if you're trying to candid a lot of stuff

that could be where it feels a little invasive right yeah I'm just trying to bounce it yeah and

just get the room a little bit of light to catch like silhouettes and just enough to where there

wasn't blur you know but I'll keep going I'll keep learning it on it then it's another tool you know

what I mean like it's when you shoot in places like this when you want to create a vibe and you

want to control everything and not have to edit it as much the lights come in handy but they

they get kind of complicated when you're like here here here and like I want to start shooting

more models with things and that's where I'll definitely use more flash to kind of because

more so to kind of like light the bike because the bike is shiny and reflective and you don't want

the skin of a woman or anything to be the that way so you got to find a way to balance on that

channel those cave photos that's what shocked me and that and the same thing I'm I'm I've had luck

like my friends are very cool yeah yeah my friends are very cool it's very easy

like to get pictures of Mark or Ricky or Kevin or Morgan looking good on their bike they

they curate their whole lives their art oriented people their punk rockers their artists their

designers you know so like they they make an effort yeah all the time you know so I'm like

I got I've been really lucky and then I'll try to get a picture of somebody who wants me to

take their picture and it's no good I'm like oh I have and my daughter same thing my daughter's

done some modeling and I took her picture plenty of times hanging out and she always looks great

and but she also knows exactly where to put her hand yeah and her arms she just does it

instinctively and so now I'm trying to learn the language to direct people so

uh a while ago my wife was like I like this your mom's chopper chick you know I'm talking

about the sparkly bike I was like I like her she seems like she's having fun I was like cool

she lives in Des Moines it's like hey if you're making it down to Kansas City I want to take your

picture with your bike because I kind of make a I have a soft rule of I don't I'm not on a journey

to take pictures of women on bikes yeah if it's a woman who owns the bike I'll take whatever kind

of picture she wants mm-hmm but uh there's plenty of dudes taking pictures of hot chicks

on motorcycles yeah and this is something I think if somebody's gonna pay me to do it and

it's like a production thing cool yeah if if it's happening and I'm there cool I'm not like

yeah that's dumb yeah I'm just not going to set that up that's not what I'm on a mission to do

so I was like hey if you ever want to do it do this just hit me up when you're in town

and she was like oh heck yeah yeah so her and her dude came by down after I had done the couple of

videos of me riding in the caves and stuff and now the tribe are fast she can we go in the caves

and I used those lights and took her pictures and she I didn't know what she was gonna want to do

and I was like I don't know man just kicking around ideas it's like moon rocks looking down there I was

like yeah maybe like some it's all sparkly like I was like maybe like Barbarella remember that yeah

I was like maybe like a Barbarella type thing on you know because like your girl it's sparkly it's

like moon rocks and 70s disco like yeah I felt like we had three things there were there would be the

thing and uh I mean she showed up and he showed up uh her dude Mike and he's got a cool uh shovel

head and I took the pictures on that central street bridge and I took which is riding around and

it came here and we went to the caves the next day and I took the pictures of her on his shovel

head and pictures of her on his bike and I was that I don't like to give credit to to equipment

but Jason gave me that light that flash with the umbrella with the diffuser built into it

yeah and it has a like a gun handle that you can mount to a tripod and I don't even have to edit them

yeah like her like she's a real pale lady we're in the dark and I used a flash and my just my

regular edit and I'm like I was like show my wife show my daughter my best my best two helpers with

this stuff like what because you know like guys we don't see half of it yeah yeah like you know

like they'll be the first to point out like hey that's oh oh she wouldn't like that you know this

person wouldn't feel great if you posted that I'm like because what they're like because of this and

I'm like oh but oh and the picture right next to it is fine you know the point is is the that soft

light from that flash it did it yeah I'm credit to that equipment thanks Jason for hooking me up

because that made that all possible and I took it all in there on the back in my in my mad squirrel

yeah uh nut sack on the back of my chopper it all fit in there and I like was riding through town

with a whole lighting kit and did a whole photo shoot in the case this is so fun you know yeah

that's uh you you had said something earlier and then you just said what you know like the flattering

thing when you take a picture of someone they like the photo of them it's really you got to give

yourself a little bit of credit because you're seeing them and you're like that that looks badass

he looks badass she looks awesome and that's why I shot this right so sometimes they don't ever

see themselves that way like if you think about what a lot of people do in the mirror they oh that's

my good side like they do that they they see only from here it's when you get a photo of you or a

video or whatever you're like oh okay I alright that's not very flattering a me or this or that

and the other but it's like when you're a photographer you don't shoot a do with a beer

belly up from the side you know I'm saying like that's why would you do that yeah you know like

he's going to be self-conscious about that you know but if you can't get that three-quarter

man you can't see any of that shit hey still behind your bike and yeah chin just you know so

there's like things that you do and you just you capture people and you want to show and I mean

to me it's like the gift of photography being able to shoot somebody and say hey man you look badass

this is yours it is there's like it's one it's on the list of my favorite things yeah it it like I

said to people and you know what maybe maybe it's a form of imposter syndrome for them too is that

they're like oh you you showed me I'm doing the thing yeah and I'm like yeah I mean think about

if you thought if you knew you were like badass at every angle and everything you did you looked

good doing it I mean that's I know that those people exist because they obviously but like

you'd have to have a lot of like talks with yourself to keep your ego and all that shit down

and stuff you know what I mean well at the at the height of being in that semi truck I got severely

overweight yeah and I went and took Scott Topers he listened Lawrence I took some picture of him

and his iron head this summer and he's a photographer he's a photographer for Harley yeah he's amazing

and he literally just whipped his phone out and pointed it back at me while I was taking pictures

of him and I thought it was so funny because one most people don't do that and immediately I was like

but I've also lost over a hundred pounds damn so he got pictures of me I was like oh these

some other people snapped one or two here friends of mine but he got a series of pictures of me

on my bike which I never get yeah and I'm like and he he had a gentleman said to me and I was like

that's the first time somebody's ever taken a picture of me on my bike that I want to post it

yeah like these are great yeah like and I was like oh I I look good and I was like full circle

you know like how cool is that but yeah it is you don't need permission to be a photographer

from anybody no we could take it away from you and I do think yeah like the motorcycle

gatekeeping thing I think it's it's important because I don't I don't want to see

I don't want to see the the world of motorcycles that I enjoy the types of motorcycles I enjoy

turn into something else you know I do agree with that like I don't want it to become

if if chopper shows are full of sons of our anarchy dudes on modern bikes

well I mean they kind of already are but yeah but if it's just I think it's more so like you just

there's a lot of there's a lot of culture on the walls over there there's a lot of history

there's the history that you're capturing there's reasons why things are done the way they're done

and those are the fun thing about motorcycles is learning it and if you just got it all at the

beginning there's no there's no there's no like achievement that it's how could you love this

the way that someone that's been growing in it for years loves it you know what I mean yeah yeah

yeah there's a learning curve and there's an investment and those people you you see like

their investment in it and you see their investment go away like I don't have anything invested in

this so I don't care goodbye and it's like all right see you later tourists that's fine

the perfect example that that I could say to it that if you use this as an analogy maybe

maybe I think the audience and maybe it'll make sense but in the in the paint world and I say this

a lot on the podcast when I do silver leaf right there's a lot of processes in it and there's a

lot of little nuance little things that if you know this and it works better right but if you

ask me hey man how do I do all this and I'm like where are you at I just all of it I want to know

how to do it I'm like why are you so entitled to have all this information you haven't even taken

a step oh a hundred percent but if you ask me hey I'm at this point in my journey of learning how

to do this and I'm like oh what you want to do is this see I you just showed me that you put an

effort and energy and and time into learning this craft therefore now there's not a gatekeeping

thing going on well you keep re-indicating on it on a different level yeah no I could see that I

get people who say to me hey I got posted like starting a new job I'm not making a whole lot of

money until I get fully trained and I'm like hey I'm trying to sell these prints you know

and somebody who owns a whole ass dealership was like hey man those are killer what kind of camera

can I get and do those yeah and I was like whatever kind you want you own a dealership yeah like get

the best they got bud and I was like but if you don't like just start but this is what I wanted to

say but really the answer is hey man start with your camera do it for six months or six weeks

with your camera if you still care if you progress with your camera or with your super I keep saying

camera phone start with your phone if you progress with your your phone and you continue to care about

how well you are doing or how well you're not doing for a period of time buy a camera I use Fuji's

X series pick one yeah they all have the same sensor well so like the difference between that

that dealership and like people that are in it that I put in time they look at your like I look at

your work and I was gonna ask you if you had prints because I would love to buy one my thing is

like I want shit like that in my shop because I want to be surrounded by things that inspire me

you know what I mean and it feels weird to have all my shit up on the shop you know I I actually

struggle yeah no no I didn't mean that on your end yeah I'm with you as far as the struggle I put

these up here with price tags originally and I put them up for Chopper fast because we were going

to have a big art show here yeah like these stay up here because I gave them he hang these before

I was in here yeah yeah and then the other room so it in my studio I have like two of my favorite

things I printed that was that Danger Dance still last year but in in my work spaces in the shop I

surround myself with other people's art that's awesome you know that's just what I try to do to

kind of you know be in my in my living room I have a few things I shot a few things some other

photographers that I follow or you know have bought prints from over the years and I also have a lot

of shit I haven't had a chance to put frames in that I'm also kind of like man I don't I don't have

a spot yet for this but I have it and when it's time I'll I'll be able to put this somewhere you

know yeah I was talking to in fact I this first time I met him in person was at Chopper Fest was

Derek in the weeds Derek yeah and he ordered the the first photo from that series from me

not too long ago and I was like hey I've got your print but I'm broke so I hung it in the art show

at Chopper Fest and it's still up there so I'm going to get it down and mail it to you it's like

no hurry dude it's going to go into stack that I've got a frame and it's going to be all long time

before I do yeah and I was like that's amazing that you're acquiring on that things on that like

that's amazing all this stuff is going to be like that it might not feel like it now but in 10 years

and 20 years you know Lord willing we're all still here doing shit these kind of things are going to

be the relics of our our our part of our generation our our part of this history and lineage you know

I think so I think so it it uh I'm I regret not buying more sooner yeah me too 100% yeah

not just you know not for like investment purposes but for like just like like participating

you know like otter you know otter me and him talk a lot like online he's always been

sharing my stuff and cheerleading for me and and like like Derek's the same way and

Scott or David Scott Cthulhuay I talked to him a bunch online early on

he shoots a mama tried a lot right no or wait no I'm thinking of another no that there's another

guy who has that long name is yeah but it does the 10 types of stuff well I think he does that

he does a lot of flash stuff and he makes a book every year for like mama yeah this this dude uh

we just started talking on instagram like music and stuff like we start following each other and

like his instagrams like uh legos and stuff and like news shots he shoots for the news in

New York he's in New York he shoots lady shoots like David on the street I think it's David on the

street you know I'm talking about like comedian guy who runs around the street and like interviews

people I'm not sure he shoots all this different stuff and he just we started talking like I'm

in the truck talking to people yeah you know what's up dude I like this I like that and he

sent me funny stuff I've sent him funny stuff and nice dude but I'm I'm also I'm not a reader

I'm severely dyslexic yeah yeah so I'm I'm like oh cool this guy does photos like

it turns out there's a website right here yeah I never clicked on the website

so I'm talking to this guy about music we like and all this different stuff and he's like oh

he sent me a scooter and I was like oh man I've always wanted a Vespa like that's on my list

like I want a proper like mod Vespa yeah right and uh he's like I never wrote a scooter until we

shot parts I'm known and I wrote on the scooter and I know he had shot a photo of Anthony Bourdain

yeah yeah I didn't know he shot all the photos oh that's looking up and shot the show

like what did you just say like I'm in my little office space at my house like what

and uh so again we're chatting back and forth and I'm doing stuff you know it's

Instagram talking we're not like having to go back and forth like that and then uh

he's like oh yeah and I said he says I'm about one of my motorcycle photos he's like well I filmed

now he goes on movie set seeing he does the books yeah for movies and he does the news and all

kinds of stuff and then we're talking and like he's like well I I I shot Monsters Garage I did

the videography for Monsters Garage and Jesse was okay but then Jason Jesse came on I skated

with Jason Jesse back in the day yeah we're friends so then he was super nice to me I was like

who is this guy yeah that is like Anthony Bourdain is like my favorite human being on the plane

yeah 100% do you know what I mean like not same he is the Hunter S. Thompson of what he was doing

that's a good analogy for you and let me yeah yeah not the same thing but of what he's doing I mean

there's so much there's so many things that people have done that are in the vein of what

parts on it was and you know his just gritty approach to it was just it's poetic like going back

and watching that stuff yeah so yeah that's my point is though is that all these people who have

just popped up on Instagram and be like hey man I really like what you're doing or in sharing my

stuff or in being encouraging and I'm like it took me a while to realize I was like well

I don't really do that for anybody else I share my friends motorcycles yeah I share my friend who

makes jewelry I share her jewelry but that's like that's a commercial for them there's their

sort of business you know I'm like oh like you do that man it's free yeah like you could make

somebody's day better you know what I mean like it's just like super simple you know like and like

I don't know how you saw my photos from born free probably the hashtag born free I think the

location for yellow rose or something I mean I feel like it just it was fed to me through some

channel through you know like mutual follow things like that and you know I was like oh this is this

looks good it's like I liked it you know it's consistent too with like your all your editing is

like really that's something I am not consistent with my editing and style and I looked at yours

I was like man this dude's got a flavor that it's like that's awesome it's it's like it's it's palatable

and it's um what's the word it's uh it's cohesive yeah I think is the word I I struggled that's

what I was saying about people who do digital photography is they're like they kind of have a

how you want this in black and white you want this in saturated you want this like however

you like and I'm like no because I can't afford and I don't have the time for film

doesn't mean that I don't care so I only do black and white and that I married that preset

that's my film because I don't want to get wrapped up in editing and because that I wanted my photos

to look like stills from standby me yeah so if you ever see my stories I'll do like I'll I'll take

movie clips and I'll put them in my story and then I'll bury them with photos so you

hear the audio from the movie but you're seeing my photos and that's usually yeah how my brain

works like and every once in a while somebody will be like they will comment like hey this is

like standby me or this is yeah I might so I when I got the flashes I wanted to

if you watch uh repo man

and you watch uh no country for old men when they're in the hotel room and there's a really good

uh breakdown on the lighting on youtube I got flashes that's one of the first thing that I

watched and I'm embarrassed because I can't remember his name right now but he's the videographer for

the second blade runner like sir I'm not gonna do it it's not gonna show up but he's a famous video

or uh cinematographer and he explains the lighting and how they had to it's in a small hotel room

and the car lights outside are really like you know whatever the letters are 1700s it's two

like cannons yeah you know to light him from this direction and when the doors open Tommy Lee Jones

is standing there and he's lit all cool from one side and then Anton sugar the character is sitting

on the side of the bed and he used to lamp but then the lights for the other thing the windows

I'm like I want to do that yeah but those those three styles are three things that I'm interested

in achieving but it it does without without having a goal I it does become this like I

snap the picture and who cares however you want you want this in black and white you want this

and saturated you want this and I'm like now it feels like like the constraint of sometimes low

light or the bike is right here like I don't move people's motorcycles yeah you know when I'm doing

candid stuff I don't I'll walk around the room and try to find an angle I'll wait I don't you know

like the constraint of it that's satisfying it's and like I always say like it's the it's the science

of the camera that you learn but then the lightning in the bottle for me is waiting for you to do the

right thing or me doing the right thing like I line I lined the the riding shot up I made the

lot he's just riding down the road yeah yeah as I asked him to do you know but like they're just

riding down the road and I figured out that when when you get one of those that really matters

it's lightning in a bottle yeah is what it feels like you know like even the one below it pook

with the and that's my buddy Nate doing a chopper chug on pook's new bike and I literally had to

say excuse me to three people this is out front of here yeah and fundraiser we did but I I literally

had to like luckily they knew me yeah otherwise I would have been back in this trunk up right into

a bunch of strangers like get out my way drop to a knee and I got the picture just in time because

they were threatening to do it and I was like get in get in there get in yeah and out and that's

one of my favorite pictures I've ever taken so that's right but the fucking the smokers at the

beer that's the beer he's dumping the beer yeah in the exhaust and it's blowing back and actually

when we when we set this up Mark we were doing a fundraiser for our friend Brian uh he's got cancer

for a second time and we're like okay let's do this let's do this fundraiser and it was it was

amazing that part of it was really amazing as far as having everybody show up man every tattoo

shop in town every bike shop in town gave something we raised eight thousand dollars and three hours

yeah it's good hell yeah with almost I mean three hours that day yeah a lot of prep work for all

of us but anyway it was a blast but I'm I'm a photographer and I like things to look a certain

way like I was like and where this is we're doing this at our home our shop I was like let's

let's think about this let me let me think about this and I we had so much going on like who's

going to go with these kegs who's going to do this and Mark's like well what can I do I said dude

you organize the bike show part yeah I was like but just do me a favor

put the bikes that you like on one side like put the choppers on one side you could do modern

choppers do whatever is it put them on one side and I didn't think about it but the sun sets

yeah where you're parked yeah which is where that shot is looking that way yeah and I'm like oh man

it's gonna be backlit and it's gonna be silhouettes because my cameras are not great with low light

and I just lucked out and uh because I had I thought about it I would have told him to put all

the choppers vintage choppers because I think vintage choppers and and modern choppers like

we did on the other side so the sun was hitting them you know but okay my good man

sometimes it's like the things that aren't necessarily exactly what you would have done

that you end up loving you know oh that's what I'm saying it like it's backlit a big backlit the

the beer in the air and I was like well the yeah so the backlighting is something I've

fell in love with for a while and I was doing a lot of silhouette type stuff and

I feel like backlighting is such a simple shot style but when done really gracefully or masterfully

or intentionally it's like it can connect with somebody because you feel like it's a familiar

image you know what I mean it feels real organic yeah and that's that's what I'm saying like the

lighting in no country for old men it's it's all there's no head on lighting it's it's real moody

in the in the front and then it's from the side you know and uh what we're just watching something

else and they're climbing around somewhere and they have a light with them yeah keep shining it

their own fate oh alien oh yeah alien my wife I had never seen alien any of the alien was we

watched the first and alien aliens and they're like going through ductwork and stuff and they keep

she's like they keep shining light in their own face and I was like whoa that is distracting

is in like it's irritating to you because you're like why are they doing that and obviously it's

for the camera but it would take you out of the moment most people if the ductwork was lit

yeah yeah like this is an episode of alph yeah you know what I mean it's just just complete everything

is like sterile lighting and it's like okay so they're lighting the ductwork and spaceships

you know like it would just immediately a thing would take you out of it you know

yeah percent but no that those types of things are just literally that got I did that and then I

was immediately like oh need I need to do more of that like here we go new drug you know

now I feel you on all that stuff man it's like it's like a growth thing it's like you know you

keep kind of getting new ideas or new challenges and the flash is working but it's still new or

whatever yeah I love it all that's what's great about photography is you're never really done

you know like you can you know you can there's so many you know photo books or something that

I started picking up in the last three years and collect even stuff that's not motorcycle related

just so that I could study people's you know like seeing it bigger than my phone

and seeing these images and books and and it's helped me kind of like reshape some stuff I'm

I'm not saying it like it's like I'm I'm better I'm good or whatever but it's it's helped me kind

of progress in the way I see stuff and you know but I had my hands on a lot of shit so it's like

sometimes I'm I'm making YouTube videos or trying to learn how to weld or

painting bikes and then it's like I really just want to go shoot every night especially when

dude when it's foggy outside I cancel everything and go chase lighting and shit like that you know

I've got a new coworker my new job who's got a bunch of horses south of here oh sick and I was

like he's like do you want to come take pictures of my horses and I was like uh-huh yeah and I was like

oh what if it's terrible like what if he's I don't know him yeah like what if it's like

I should call somebody like this isn't okay oh because there's a lot of hillbilly stuff oh

he's a nice guy his place is beautiful he showed me a picture it's beautiful and I was like it's

about to be freezing here yeah and you'll see their breath every second I was like on my way buddy

like I am excited and I've never got to do it yeah you know so no that's right on your way through

Tulsa when you cross Broken Arrow on 44 when you cross west of Broken Arrow which is like 357

or something like goes to Muscogee from Tulsa there are more horses on both sides of that

highway you'll think they're cattle oh for real there's 400 horses I'm down they're just I don't

know what it is it's always been there there's a couple places that have like giraffes and

not giraffes uh camels and stuff camels yeah there's a bunch of stuff like that but all those horses

and I've tried I never had the lens to do it I'd truck drive down there and pull off and you want

it looks like stick figures and like camera I'm like not so yeah man unfortunately I do have to

cut this one short yeah dude I gotta drop another how many but what is it eight more hours yeah

yeah it's a nine hour drive like I said I'm so glad I got to meet you because like this place is

so photogenic this this town this shop you know knowing you and kind of get some history of this

shit it's like I really want to just come back and ride up here and spend some time like a weekend

or something like that yeah whatever you want man we're here and likewise if you're gonna come to

Dallas man we we put people up and and you know showing the ropes we got it we got a cool city too

it's just it's a little bit it feels a little newer which is good and bad you know that's it's a vibe

I've only been there for trucking yeah I used to go in there and deliver coke okay yeah that little

spot by the airport coke you know Coca-Cola yeah Coca-Cola uh I did a an endless loop from Chicago

Springfield Illinois Chicago Kansas City to Dallas and then back but if I didn't it's

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday oh and I did that for like a year but is that little Coca-Cola

just distributorship thing next to the airport smaller airport so I have to figure out where

that's at I'm not sure if I know it's got a cool old sign like a really cool like old factory sign

yeah yeah man but seriously you know I'm a big fan of your work and uh all this stuff it's like the

city the all the shit like I'm I'm new to this so it's it's very cool to see like I've driven

through here to see what's in some of these buildings and how it's uh curated and you know

the chopper scene is thriving here the David man stuff is sick you know what I mean so my favorite

thing about Chopper Fest one of my favorite things was that watching people like this city

because I'm not from here and I've never felt like I was home yeah until here like I'm I left

here twice and got homesick and I'll never leave again you know like I love it here so I've been

here since the 90s but the this town's amazing this area is amazing the history of it like I'll

nerd out yeah like all these buildings this was world war two shit right here that big metal

table behind us yeah that was in this building because nobody could move it but that they made

boots b2 bomber stuff and and these buildings if it's got the quonset hut shaped round building

on top this this is an add-on later but the if the the other rooms have the big quonset shape

yeah if it's a rounder like that it's world war two fairfax district where I work from one of my

trucking jobs and gm is now is where they made the b2 bombers and all that stuff there's big you

know statues and stuff well it's cool it's a cool old town and it's but more importantly

it's full of rad people yeah you know in the chopper history ain't no joke oh yeah 100%

like Ed Ross basically lived here for a while at Wild Child you know that's where he met

David Mann you know and I'm not gonna sit here and quote all that history you need to talk to Tommy

yeah that's the point I want to come back and meet more people and share more of this culture and

you know and and go eat some good some good food and drink some beer at some cool bars and

you know try to try to kick start my bike in some of these places but well I do appreciate it man

yeah let's get you out of here man you gotta drive I don't envy you

shit well guys I hope you enjoyed that I want to say thank you to James for staying up pretty late

to do this podcast with me I had drove down to Kansas City from Minneapolis many Minneapolis how

do you say that and we did the podcast it was about probably 1130 and then I jumped back in my jeep

and I made it pretty much all the way to Oklahoma City I slept in a love's parking lot at like

three or four a.m. and then I finished my drive home after this so these road trips jumping out

there going to sit in people's shops is something I really enjoy doing and I like being able to

tell these stories from their comfort zone and you know a lot of the ways I'm able to do that is

through our sponsorships and through our patreon and so you know if you guys are you know thinking

about or you dig this podcast and you you know want to help it stay around and shit like that

you know the link's down in the description is how you can help keep that going so I do appreciate

it I do have one more podcast we're literally gonna drop tomorrow which is you know December 31st

the end of 2025 and we're gonna get one more out for you guys and then we're gonna see you in the

new year all right we'll catch you then peace

Motorcycles and Photography with James Folder #446

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Tesla Semi

motorcycles

vintage cars

drag racing

Harley-Davidson Sportster

chopper

forged wheels

brake calipers

custom motorcycle culture

off-road lighting

DOT regulations

Custom Dynamics

Audi 100S

Cadillac XT5

Vespa

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