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NASCAR’s New Era Begins: Chase Format, Charter Settlement, and Major Personnel Moves
NASCAR’s New Era Begins: Chase Format, Charter Settlement, and Major Personnel Moves
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About this episode
A deep dive into NASCAR's new era kicks off with Kevin Harvick discussing significant off-season changes, including the recent charter settlement involving 2311 Racing and Front Row Motorsports. The episode features lively banter about race day experiences in cold weather, personal anecdotes from Harvick's off-season, and reflections on the challenges faced by teams during negotiations. With humor and insight, Harvick and his co-hosts explore the implications of these changes for the upcoming NASCAR season, making it a compelling listen for fans eager to understand the sport's evolving landscape.
NASCAR is entering a new era, and Kevin Harvick, Kaitlyn Vincie, and Mamba Smith break down everything you need to know from a massive offseason on this episode of Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour. The crew reacts to NASCAR reaching a settlement with 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports, the introduction of evergreen-style charters, and what the agreement means for the future of team ownership. They also dive into the stunning return of the Chase format beginning in 2026, explaining how the new postseason structure works, why the elimination era is over, and how the points system will determine a champion once again. Plus, the show covers the resignation of NASCAR Commissioner Steve Phelps, what it means for the sport’s leadership moving forward, and the latest crew chief and competition personnel changes across the garage. From major governance shifts to on-track implications, this episode breaks down one of the most consequential offseasons in modern NASCAR history.
0:00 - Intro2:41 - Offseason Catch-Up9:29 - NASCAR Reaches Settlement With 23XI & FRM14:13 - NASCAR Commissioner Steve Phelps Resigns21-51 - New Chase Format40:45 - Personnel Changes
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Concept
pro late models
"...we opened our car store West season for the pro late models at Tucson as part of the chili willy. Great event. Probably definitely the biggest event that we've had."
Pro late models are special race cars designed for racing on short tracks. They are built for speed and performance, making them popular in local racing events.
Pro late models are a type of race car that competes in short track racing events. They are known for their high performance and are often used in regional racing series across the United States.
Concept
super late models
"...We had 40 super late models show up as well for, for their Sunday version of it."
Super late models are a type of race car that is even faster and more advanced than pro late models. They are used in important racing events and have more powerful engines.
Super late models are a more advanced category of late model race cars, featuring higher horsepower and more sophisticated technology compared to pro late models. They compete in various prestigious racing series.
Term
tires
"...had to take care of the tires. Couldn't just be balls to the wall the whole time and just hammer down."
Tires are the rubber parts of the car that touch the road. In racing, it's important to take care of them so the car can go fast and stay in control.
In racing, tires are crucial for grip and performance. Drivers must manage tire wear throughout the race to maintain speed and control, especially on worn-out tracks.
Term
qualified on the pole
"...I felt like I was in a pretty good spot from practice day. He qualified on the pole, but that doesn't matter."
When a driver 'qualifies on the pole', it means they were the fastest during practice and will start the race in the very front position. This is a good spot to be in because they have less traffic ahead of them.
Qualifying on the pole refers to a driver achieving the fastest time during qualifying sessions, which earns them the first starting position in the race. This is advantageous as it allows the driver to start at the front of the pack.
Car
Chrysler Daytona
"..., Tony Stewart's going to drive the truck race at Daytona. Why not?"
The Chrysler Daytona is a sporty car from the 1980s known for its sleek shape and speed. It was built for racing and is remembered for its involvement in big racing events, especially at Daytona, which is famous for car races.
The Chrysler Daytona is a performance-oriented coupe that was produced in the 1980s, notable for its aerodynamic design and racing pedigree. It played a significant role in the NASCAR series, particularly during the 1984 season, where it showcased Chrysler's engineering capabilities in motorsports. The mention in the podcast likely relates to its historical significance in racing events at Daytona International Speedway.
Car
Buick Grand National
"...he point where they competed like they did in the Grand National Series? Grand National Series."
The Buick Grand National is a powerful car from the 1980s that stands out because of its fast turbo engine and cool black design. It became popular for racing and is still loved by car enthusiasts today for its speed and style.
The Buick Grand National is a high-performance version of the Buick Regal, produced in the 1980s, known for its turbocharged V6 engine and blacked-out styling. It gained a cult following due to its impressive performance and was a symbol of American muscle during its time. The mention in the podcast likely refers to its legacy in racing and its competitive spirit in the Grand National Series.
- Intro2:41 - Offseason Catch-Up9:29 - NASCAR Reaches Settlement With 23XI & FRM14:13 - NASCAR Commissioner Steve Phelps Resigns21-51 - New Chase Format40:45 - Personnel Changes
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Why not?
Welcome to Kevin Harvick's happy hour presented by NASCAR on Fox.
I'm Kevin Harvick.
I'm from Hilton, Bensie, and this is an unidentified flying object over here.
He does look like an insect.
What in the world is happening here?
Listen, Bowman Graves this weekend, I just wanted everybody to know what they should
dress like for the snow.
This is a PSI.
Bring your goggles.
Yeah, bring your goggles.
Get your winter hat.
A nice jacket.
Let me ask you this.
Do we think that going to a NASCAR race when it's possibly have snowed the day
before, now we've been at NASCAR races where it has snowed and has been
snowed out.
Been to Atlanta.
We've been to several places where it's been snowing.
We had snowball fight at Bristol one year on the back straight away.
So this is not abnormal, not preferred by any means.
Definitely not preferred.
Is it different to go sit at a NASCAR race in the cold compared to a football
game in the cold?
Do you see it any different or?
I think so.
Why?
I think so because at the NASCAR race, like we're so locked in to like watching
the race and the things going on.
I think at the football games, unless it's like when there's a caution, that's
like the same as, you know, a big tackle or like a touchdown or whatever.
Everyone's like jumping around.
There's a lot more moments where you're up jumping around, I think and
excited about stuff.
And for us, we're like locked into watching it and enjoying the atmosphere.
Hard to enjoy the atmosphere.
Here's how I look at it though.
I look at it is there's a race on the schedule.
If it's snowing a little bit, I'd rather it be snowing than raining.
Oh, and when it's cold, I'd rather it be snowing than raining.
And when it's cold, you don't have any weepers because they just freeze.
Fair.
Just ice.
I mean, I'm all in.
Let's make it happen.
You look like a marshmallow.
I don't know if it's possible, but let's make it happen.
It's giving marshmallow.
It's giving marshmallow.
Yeah.
It's giving warm too.
So I'm going to pop this jacket on.
Yeah, we gotta.
Don't let it overheat.
We got a long show ahead, guys, because it was a very news filled
off season.
So we have plenty of stories to discuss here on happy hour.
And what are socials, mama, they haven't changed.
Make sure you tell the fans where they can find us Harvick.
Harvick Harvick Harvick
Harvick it's at the ICK.
Okay, I know it's been a long off season.
It's been a long off season Barvik Harvick happy pod.
There you go.
That's it.
Nailed it, nailed it.
Good job.
And go home.
I got you listen, I will say it's been a long off season
for that for this Harvick, he won though.
He won a race.
I was like, it's not even February.
Well, no, first of all, I took them. I don't think, did you win last year? I did. When
remember this is the whole controversy with the doubleheader. I won the first one. I got
the trophy and Keelan won the second one, but this, this one got a little more physical.
This one got a little more heated. My man, we, we, we opened our car store West season
for the pro late models at Tucson as part of the chili willy. Great event. Probably
definitely the biggest event that we've had. We had 40 cars. It's awesome show up.
We had 40 super late models show up as well for, for their Sunday version of it.
So this one fit my style worn out race track had to take care of the tires. Couldn't
just be balls to the wall the whole time and just hammer down. And so I, I felt like
I was in a pretty good spot from practice day. He qualified on the pole, but
that doesn't matter. And, and so my guy, my guy, my guy cut me off a couple
times. I was on the outside of him a couple of times squeezed up into the fence.
I feel like he's just to the point where he knows that he can just take advantage
of me of you specifically because I'm not going to tear up the cars because I
know I have to pay for him. So he chopped me a little in the, at the beginning
of the race. And then I, I went to pass him the first time and he, he leaned
on my door to keep me from going by and it actually towed the car to the
right. And so I had to lift and he got back by me. So I was a little bit
frustrated at that point. And so I knew I was way better and I'm in my mature
status at this point. I felt like I just need to pass him. I don't need to tear
the cars up. So I drove in there, kind of slid up and he moved me. And I was
like, my wires crossed at that point. Like, okay, buddy, today is not your
day. I went, I said, I'm going to show you exactly how you're supposed
to do a bump and run when you don't want anybody to get back to your
bumper. Yeah. So I shot him up the racetrack and off the rest of
history. I mean, the right front was almost shot into the fence up there,
but he made it work. I would have been okay with that too. Your interview
was hilarious after you like, yeah, almost put him in the fence, but I
would have been fine with that. Like, in the end, that's how other people
are going to treat him. Like, have you moved them like that? Somebody's
going to get back to your bumper. So, you know, those are the, those are
the real life consequences that you got to get learned sometime. How is the
rest of your off season? What'd you do? Oh, we had a daddy daughter
dance last week. So Piper and I went to the daddy daughter dance. We're
moving. So our whole life is in chaos right now. Moving is the
worst. Moving is awful. Everything in my house is in boxes right
now. So between everything getting started with Fox, I had to go
to LA for our seminars for NASCAR on Fox season. Keelan went
to the snowball derby and won the snowflake at the end of the
year. So we didn't race from the end of the snowflake until we went
back to Tucson. We did take a break. So that was nice just to be able
to kind of relax and enjoy Christmas and New Year's. So we went to a
few football games and watched the Panthers into the playoffs. Yeah.
So that was, that was fun. Great for the community. They played a
great game and didn't look like, didn't look like fools out
there. They looked like they belonged. Yeah, they did look
like they belonged. So that was fun. So we, we tried to do some
normal things over the off season. Kevin had a robust off season.
How was yours? Mine was pretty low key. Yeah. Yeah. So hung out
my parents, I moved my parents to the Denver area probably a few
years ago. They're like my neighbors. I live right near them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty close. So I think like that's been a
cheat code honestly for me having them so close because I
can just zip up to them because 15 hours away. So you don't live in
the basement. No, no, no, I live on my own. They live on their
own. I mean, I had to ask a question because I didn't know
if you move back in like, Hey man, this house is nice. I'm
going to move back into the basement like every other
millennial. I would save a lot of money, but I will say my
mom does meal prep for me. So she cooks home cooked meals,
which is awesome. That's cute. I got a trainer. My
boy, Thad. Wow. Yeah. When did you start? I started in
October. You can't tell. I said when do you start? I know you
can't tell because I got a bag of shit on. You didn't know he
was going to come up to you. I know. I try to just ignore
those things, but you know, he's he's got to do his
business. You're all, yeah, we got to start the new year.
Yeah. Well, I'm trying to get more like you. Yeah. Baby
face over there. Clean baby face. Clean. Clean and
fresh. Yeah. What about you, KB? I spent a lot of time
with my kids. I went to the mountains a lot Western
Carolina because I like to give tourism back to that
area as they're still kind of recovering from the
hurricane. So I went there probably four times. Honestly,
I love it up there. And while I was there, I went to an
antique mall where there's a bunch of different like
vendors set up inside. That's where old stuff is.
Well, it's an antique store, of course. Okay. Yes and no.
There was one specifically that had a bunch of
racing die cast and I honed in on, I saw Harvick,
the name popping out of the corner of the box because
it was kind of tucked back went and it was the ET car,
which my son loves racing and he also loves ET. So this
is a match made in heaven. So I gave it to him and he's
so excited about it. It's a very cool paint scheme, Kevin.
Does it bring back some fun memories? No, it's a great,
that's a great picture. Yeah. And I love the fact that,
that car is still in existence. That was a great
promotion. Back in those days we did, they probably
made a hundred thousand or something of those cars and
I raced one on Friday. That was the, that was the
weekend that I jumped over Greg Biffle's car. Oh,
he crashed me on, on Saturday. I looked all this up.
And so that was the Sunday car. So we ran them back to
back and that was the, the promotion of, of the
relaunch of the 20th anniversary. That's cool.
Was the other car red? You had two ET cars. Yeah.
Oh, my son loves it. It was locked in already. Listen,
we are fans of ET and Kevin and racing in our house.
So you look at all of them. I'm glad to know that my
stuff is nostalgic and living in the antique store.
You're a classic. I tried to comfort Kevin on this by
saying there are a lot of drivers who are also in
the store. Yeah. And not saying he's not young, but
just clarify. I'm not young. I'm not young. I did turn 50.
Yeah. Over the off season. I'm not saying he's old, but
he's definitely not young. I know. He's very sprightly.
Yeah. Didn't you, didn't you just go to the, you get
your annual checkup? Oh my God. I did. Check your
dipstick. We don't need to talk about this. 50's a
different, different type of physical. That's for sure.
A little more uncomfortable, but you know, necessary, but
uncomfortable. Everything checked out. Yeah. Guys in a
37 year old body right now, he's fine. Episode two,
things are already going haywire on this show. No
surprise there. As I mentioned at the top of the
show, lots of news in the off season and I have
been never happier to share the first news item
we're going to talk about and it's NASCAR reaches
a settlement with 2311 racing, front row motor
sports after two and a half years of negotiation. Thank you,
Jesus. This went on. Yes. I mean, what a nightmare, you
know, for the guys that the way that it all worked out
for the teams in 2311 is I feel, I feel really happy
for the teams that, that they got what they deserve
from the evergreen charters to being able to know
that they have invested in something that they're
going to get to keep makes complete sense. I, I
hate that we had to go down the road of
everything that we went down with everything that
came out in court. I was watching all these court cases
going, oh my God, I am so happy we don't have to
report on this every week. Oh man. How do we cover it
all when we go back and it's over though. So at
least we can summarize everything that went on,
but I'm happy. I'm happy it's over. You know, I
think that it obviously resulted in a lot of, you
know, things that have changed since the
lawsuit happened. I think that when you look at
Michael Jordan, he's done this before with the, you
know, the NBA and putting up the fight and fighting
for the teams and doing the things that they did.
Denny Hamlin, you know, he went through a year
last year from a pressure standpoint with
everything that he was doing for the championship
and going through this lawsuit, trying to run
his team and everything that they were trying
to navigate. And then you look at it from
the NASCAR side, trying to grow the sport and
trying to do everything that you're doing
while you're being sued and this, you know, at a
high level from a very public figure in Michael
Jordan. How do you win? But ultimately in the
end, just from, I wasn't in the court or, you
know, just watching all of Bob's reports and
everybody who was reporting on everything seemed
like a pretty one-sided fight. It seemed like
2311 pretty much took it to NASCAR from
everything that went on. And in the end,
you know, I think NASCAR just decided that
we're not going to win this and we need to
settle this and get this over with.
A big thanks to Bob Pocrus, by the way, because
the media boots on the ground were very
helpful in disseminating all the
information of things that was going on
at the trial. Big word.
Big word. But it was going to take
somebody like Michael Jordan to challenge
the system and rise to this task at hand.
Yeah, well, scared money don't make money
and Michael Jordan's made a lot of it.
So he ain't scared. And, you know, to Kevin's
point, like, just how it all came down,
the watching it, it was like when you're
watching your family members like fight
at the Thanksgiving table, it's just
like, it sucked watching it because you
have friends on both sides of this
we're all a part of this whole thing
and the teams deserved to have the
Evergreen charters that needed to be
in place. And I, for most people that I
spoke to, like that part seemed like a no
brainer, like on both sides. It didn't seem
like that should have been even a huge
question of the matter. I think it was
how we got to that point, which ultimately
was the question. And they put up the
good fight, they did what they had to do.
And I'm glad everyone settled.
I wish it would have settled before we
even got to it. I feel like we didn't
need to go into it and we could have
gotten to the same point, if not
better. And a lot of things ended up
being a lot of slander. That's the
part I hated. This could have been set on
like one meeting. Yeah. Both parties
seem happy though with the outcome,
which I think is a positive. Well, I did
like the fact that they stood up there
together and gave the the clarity
statements of everything, of trying to
move on. Now in the end, you know, I
think even when you look at it from a
2311 side, when you look at trying
to hire employees and doing all the
things that they were trying to do,
I think there was still a lot of
question marks of, okay, is this
team actually still going to be here
when this all gets done? If they lose,
I don't want to go to work there right
now. So I think there are still things
that from a team standpoint, 2311 is
going to have to build back up because
I feel like they probably missed out on
the opportunity of hiring some
employees along the line because of
the fight that they were in.
From a NASCAR side,
I believe that they have an opportunity
to really look at themselves and say,
okay, what did we learn through all
this and how can we reshape our
company to, this is a good opportunity
to reshape things and the internal
structure of how it all happened.
Obviously, Steve Phelps,
you know, he stepped down after
this was all said and done and we
know that the comments that he made
about Richard Childress and, you know,
what he said in those texts became public.
I think we all talk a lot about our
friends here and there that you might,
you know, text some things that, you
know, you probably don't mean, but in
the end they came out in the court of
law and they became public information.
And I think, I just, Steve has done
a lot of great things in our sport,
but I don't think that from a
fans perspective they could overcome
the fact that he said those things
about one of the most iconic figures
in the sport and save face.
And so I think that somebody was
going to have to take the fall in
the end, whether it was Steve Phelps
or Jim France or Steve O'Donnell,
whoever it was.
And ultimately it was, it was
commissioner Steve Phelps.
And I mean, do we need a
commissioner?
Well, I don't think anybody wants
to be like other sports.
I don't think we need a commissioner.
I don't want to hear about football.
I don't want to hear about anything.
I want it to be, we're racing.
And I think we heard, you know,
Dale Jr. especially talk about,
we're different.
Our fans are different than other sports.
It says they have no plans, obviously,
to replace the commissioner at this
time when they announced that Steve
Phelps was residing.
To your point, like, I think all of
my interactions I ever had with
Steve Phelps over the years were
very positive.
Like he would stop, talk to you on
Pitt Road, shake your hand.
He would come to our Fox Sport
seminars and address the state of
the sport.
I felt like he did a lot of good
things.
He helped bring the sport back after
COVID.
That was him kind of spearheading all
of those efforts.
But I think once those text messages
were brought to light,
that version of him did not align
with the character I had seen the
whole time I had known him.
It just, it didn't even seem like
the same person to be honest.
I mean, I think to, I think we
all got to remember that we're
people are human.
Like he is at the high level.
And those are the things that
you can't, you definitely can't
have an avid out there, right?
That's not good.
But, you know, human emotions
happen and sometimes there's
ramifications for those things.
And we all have in our phones
text messages to people that
we probably shouldn't say
because in case that it did go
out, like it's out there, right?
So.
No to self.
Yeah.
I have completely changed how I
read on texting people.
We'll text a lot nicer now.
If I have some of this say
that's like maybe borderline,
I'm making more phone calls now
than I was before.
But, you know, the,
I took Kevin's point.
Like somebody had to,
somebody had to take that,
take the L.
They wouldn't have been able to
recover from it without making
it change.
You had to make some type of
change.
And it happened.
I had Steve has always been a
really great guy to me
and supporter of me.
And we've had great conversations
and about where the sport was
going.
I think he genuinely cares
about the sport.
And there was a lot of good
things that he did.
A lot of great things that
he did.
So it sucks that we're losing
somebody by the same time.
You know, and stuff like this
happens.
Right.
And it's a chance to really
look in the mirror and be like,
okay, this kind of hurt.
How do we learn from this?
Because that's the funny thing
about pain is it makes people
learn lessons.
At least it should.
And then the other thing that
I just want to note real quick
was the 2311 and the NASCAR
piece.
One thing that kind of gets
mixed up in all this is
the amount of partners that
were NASCAR official partners
and also 2311 partners
is interesting at what level
they're at, right?
DoorDash was a partner of 2311
and NASCAR at the same time.
Xfinity was a partner of NASCAR
and 2311 at the same time.
They just announced this new one
with Hardys.
Hardys is going to be at 2311
and it's at NASCAR.
Like it's very interesting.
And some of those things were
happening already, right?
And some of them happened
probably right after I announced
at the same time.
It's interesting how the
relationship is because you've
got a brand that's in the
middle of both of it.
And if it were mine,
if it were mine and I would
look at this and you hear,
you know, we'll talk about the
chase later and going back
on the format,
you know, you talk about,
I just believe that the culture
that I was brought up in this
sport, that badass,
don't care about what
everybody else thinks.
We are NASCAR racing.
We are different than
everybody else.
We don't need to care about
everything that's happening
in the world.
We need to stay in our lane
and not react to every
single situation that happens.
I think that's important.
I think that that badass culture
that we are and not trying to
soften that up to make it
fair for everybody like we did
with some other box.
We don't need to fit in
another box.
We need to keep that
badass culture that's
always been NASCAR racing
and not try to fit into
every box that falls along
the way.
Let's stay in our lane
and do the things that make
us great.
And I think that
just watching and listening to
people inside the sport,
it feels like
we're going to head back down
that direction.
And that is good for the sport
and being able to be who we
are and not worry about
trying to be something else.
We don't want to be basketball.
Basketball is falling apart.
You're not the NFL.
He's, I'm sorry.
You're never going to own
our identity as NASCAR.
And it's simple.
It is the most simple
identity ever.
All you have to do is fire
the cars up, go on the racetrack
and put on a race
and just be yourself.
And it's just not to over
complicate things.
But I think that that culture
needs to live from the top
all the way through the PR
department.
Right?
Like let's not worry about
what we might,
what somebody else did.
Keep it simple.
Keep it, keep it in our lane
and don't get out of the box
too far.
And I think we're better off
trying to just be ourselves.
I think it's okay not to
it's okay for us not to
be the NFL
or be Major League Baseball.
It's okay for us to not,
I've had a lot of thought about
this over the off season
because I talked to more people
than probably most do
whether they're in the industry
or fans.
And I just come to this
like thought where it's like
it's okay to
just be in our box to your
point and to really own it
and look at what works
in other places
but not try to be
100% those other things.
Like I want this sport to grow
as much as it possibly can
because I think this is the best
sport in all of sports.
However,
maybe it won't
but that's okay
because if we are here
and around and are still
putting race cars on track
and fans are still excited
and brands are still coming.
Like does it matter if we're
like, you know what I mean?
It's something really simple,
right?
Like when we redid the Daytona
international speedway
and we started calling the
front stretch grandstands
the stadium section.
Like we're not in a stadium.
We're in a racetrack.
Right.
It's the front stretch grandstands.
Right?
Like it's just simple things like
that to me that just
sometimes fly all over me
that that we just
we want to get outside of
the culture that we have.
Just keep it simple.
Keep it in our lane.
Do the things that got us here
right and not overthink it.
And in the end,
the playoff format
it was going to create this
great seventh game moment
that we were supposed to have
and everybody was going to tune in.
Didn't happen.
Never happened.
Took a long time to get back.
We're back on a track where
you know, your season matters.
The points matter.
We're going to crown a champion
that everybody can be
can be proud of.
We're talking about authenticity
to NASCAR
and Kevin just mentioned it.
The format has changed once again
back to the Chase championship
for this season.
NASCAR announced it.
This was met widely
with a lot of positive reception.
I thought from the competitors,
the fans, the industry,
you guys have been talking about it.
I think Chase Elliott's always
kind of said it best, too.
We are racing.
We don't need to be like other sports.
What works for them may not work for us.
Now we're back to this.
You certainly were a proponent
of changing the format.
Now there's no more win in your end.
All that's over.
So I got to assume you're quite happy.
It is.
And I think it's a great compromise.
There's a lot of parties involved.
You got the television who wants,
you know, they want those cuts
every every three races
and they want those
those moments,
but they're fabricated, right?
And, you know, you see moments like that,
that, you know, in the end,
Denny Hamlin had the best playoffs,
right?
And probably arguably,
he had one of the best.
One of the best.
But his playoffs were pretty stout.
And in the end,
it came down to a pit call
that cost him the opportunity.
And it's just those,
those one moments are great,
but how many of those one moments
have we seen after a season long
battle of points
to be able to crown the champion?
And it came down to that moment
and then everybody's fine with it
because you've got so many things
that led to that one moment
that the one moment
doesn't make or break your season.
And it just where we landed
with the chase and the points
and getting more points for winning.
I think that was a great addition
to the format
to be able to still put that emphasis
on winning
because winning still has to be important.
But when you get a DNF,
it needs to hurt.
It's going to hurt now.
It's going to hurt.
And I think it's going to affect.
It's going to affect guys.
I mean, Kyle Larson has the most amount of DNFs.
You know, he has,
he's right up on the top of the list
with the highest in DNFs.
And it's going to make guys like Chase Elliott
who are consistent
and can be able to put together
week after week after week.
But also he,
those are the types of guys
that can take a 15th place car
and finish fifth, the Joey Logano's
Chase Elliott,
William Byron's working his way there.
Those days where you struggle
and you can do it better than other people,
those days need to matter as well.
So it's going to change.
It's going to change a lot of the things that happen.
You think back to all those moments
where Cliff Daniels was
trying to figure out
how to get his car back on the racetrack.
Think about how many teams didn't do that.
And now getting back out on the racetrack
after you crash
and getting those one or two spots at Talladega
or wherever you might be
to gather those points.
The whole thought process is a little bit different
on a lot of things that go with this format
and how you race.
And as a competitor,
that's what you think about.
Okay, I only race to the format.
I don't make the format.
I don't care what the format is,
I just want to win.
And now there's a lot more of those thought processes
that have to go into place
on those moments that are going to happen
time after time after time
week after week of things that are going to happen.
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Don't you think it's going to be harder?
I mean in years past
we'd see people win
and then they disappear
for weeks, maybe months,
not really doing anything.
Well, the whole winning your end thing
at the beginning of the year,
you can't just,
you can't just start working on your
playoff cars.
No, it doesn't work like that.
Now it's a totally different
because if you're past
five to six
when you get into that playoff format,
you're done.
Unless you have a Tony Stewart type
chase where you win five of the 10 races,
that's the only way
you're going to claw your way back into it,
which that's the part
that's great about the format
is you still have that opportunity.
If you win five out of the 10 races
that you can claw your way back in.
But man, if you're much outside of
fifth or sixth
by the time you get to the chase,
you're going to be in big trouble.
Yeah.
As far as winning the championship.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I think
as I sat on here
time and time,
I didn't mind.
No more bright lights, buddy.
No, no, no.
The lights are brighter now.
Oh, lights are brighter.
Oh, lights are brighter.
Now they're brighter every week.
Every week.
So like they were bright before,
but now you really better not mess up.
Yeah.
Do not dim these lights, people.
Like now you can't just come back the next week
and get all those points back, right?
I think she threw it right at you, didn't she?
I do.
She threw it right over there.
But the stage is still huge.
It's even more so now
if that's what everyone wanted,
which is what they wanted,
which is cool.
I'm fine with this change.
I honestly, again, to your point,
I'm a racer.
I don't care about what format is.
I just want to win whatever we're doing.
And I think like the people
that think like someone like Joey Logano
isn't going to,
this isn't an advantage to him
because they're like,
they're like, well, he runs 17th.
Okay.
Well, if he runs 17th on average all year
and the guy that's the best average is 12th,
I mean, what are we,
what are we really talking about now?
Who's it hurt the worst?
Who's it hurt the worst?
I think Larsen has to figure out
now he can't send it.
Right.
He can't send it every week.
Chase Brisco, I think,
is in that same little mentality.
He was pretty consistent though.
Yeah, but he,
but he's not scared.
Like the guys that aren't scared
and their risk versus reward,
they were willing to risk a lot.
I think it hurts them.
Like someone like a Blaney.
SVG, in my mind.
I mean, oh my God, SVG is,
it's going to be tough because
I mean, they built that whole program
around winning.
This format.
Right.
And now, and now he needs to,
their cars have to be better.
Well, get to that.
And he has to be better
because of now he has to run the ovals.
The whole thing matters now.
Which he was starting to improve on though.
Yeah.
He was getting better.
But now everybody's going to be
in a different mindset.
And I also think it's going to affect
the end of some of these races as well
because when,
now when you're chasing someone down,
maybe it's like,
do I really want to send it down in there?
Maybe get loose underneath them and wreck.
And then all those points
that we just accumulated are junk.
Right.
Like those moments are going to change.
I think back to,
that's the funny part about this cycle
because,
you know, you look at,
you look at this Chicago street course going away,
right?
Going back to Chicago land speedway on the oval.
Obviously a lot of,
a lot of rumors about the roval going back to the oval.
Yeah.
So, you know, I think that,
which I don't disagree with,
with any of those changes.
You know, I think that,
but when you look at those,
when you look at those moments where people get out
and say, yeah,
it was a great points day.
And it used to just drive the fans through the roof.
Through the roof.
And so remember,
be very careful about what you wish for him.
He said it.
Remember that.
Don't bitch about the drivers talking about
getting out of the car,
gathering those points and having a great points day.
So there's a catch 22 in all scenarios,
but it is,
it is part of the game.
You, you have to be able to manage yourself
and it can't just be throw it all away.
I did.
I never liked to just throw it all the way,
hoping that you could just have that one win
because there's more to it.
Now you could still win,
but it's not just the drive in there
and slam them scenario that might cost you points.
Let's show some specifics of the format
that they've announced.
Cause also worth noting the 25 point premium
awarded to the regular season champion as well.
So here's some different pieces to this announcement
for the chase format.
Yes.
As we've talked about,
it's going to change a lot of things
the way these teams approach their Sundays.
One thing that a lot of people I saw
in my exchanges,
they thought 16 drivers was too much.
And I think 16 is fine.
Here's the thing I like about 16.
I don't mean to interrupt this one.
No, no, no, no.
The thing that I like about 16,
if you've had a shit season
and you clawed your way into 16th
and you're on a roll
and you can finish fifth or sixth in the points,
that's a massive difference.
And you can, you'll earn it.
I like the fact that you got to earn it.
And you can't just get that one win,
have a couple of good weeks,
get yourself into the playoffs,
and you're just locked in.
The guys who aren't running good
at the end of the year,
the whole year matters.
If you're not running good those last 10 weeks
and things aren't going good
and another guy's hit on it
and surpasses them in the points,
it gives you a room to improve yourself
off of running good.
And to your point,
if you're on that trajectory
and you're 16th,
now you have an opportunity to be fifth.
You might not make it all the way,
but you can go into your partnership meetings
at the end of the year
and all these things.
Look at the run that we put on.
We figured some stuff out,
made season, carried that through.
Next year, we're going to feel even better about it.
Money, baby.
It's about the money.
We're talking about sponsorship dollars,
but with the charters.
The 16th to fifth from a charter worth
over the three-year average
of what's your worth from a charter standpoint.
16th to fifth is a massive difference
in what that, what that charter is worth.
So a new format announced,
well, what is old is new again,
I guess some, I wish you were still racing Kevin.
It's like going to the antique store.
You know, I might just make a comeback.
I was wondering.
Why not?
Tony's doing it.
Yeah.
I mean, Tony Stewart's going to drive
the truck race at Daytona.
Why not?
What should we race?
I'm starting to get the bug again, I think.
Phoenix?
Phoenix?
Phoenix.
In what?
An X-Frinity car.
I mean, O'Reilly.
Cup's too much work.
What could I just get in and drive?
O'Reilly series or the, or the Craftsman trucks.
Let's do Craftsman trucks.
I would love that.
Please make sure it's a race.
I'm on paper.
Let's do that.
When's the last time you won a truck race?
I don't know.
Those bodies must have been way different.
Probably the last, I think I won.
Well, I didn't, I know I won the last,
we won the owner's championship.
And then I think we won the race as well.
In KHI, I ran a couple of other truck races
when we sold the team as part of the deal.
Got myself in trouble.
Got a, got a hammer thrown at me.
Remember that?
That was cool.
Yeah.
Made a fool out of myself, but I was good at that.
The two might be available still.
You might be able to jump back in the two.
You won a lot more in the two than the 33.
I did?
Yeah.
I think as a kid.
Hornaday ran the 33 the most.
Hornaday ran the 33.
Yeah.
So yeah, the two truck was kind of our,
kind of our all-star truck.
Craftsman ran the six for you guys?
He ran the first year in the six, yeah.
And then Hornaday took over the second year.
Yeah, yeah.
I like what I'm hearing that Kevin may
potentially run a truck race.
Yeah.
If you do, let me get a radio.
I just want to be a tap in every once in a while.
See how you're doing.
Yeah.
I mean, it seems like we're just,
we're, we're going back to what's
oldest new again.
So.
That's what I'm saying.
Why not?
This is our theme for the year.
What's oldest new again?
Who would, who would my sponsor be?
I get better money.
We can get good registered to come back on this thing.
That'd be cool.
But let's just call Bush.
Bush.
That's what I'm saying.
Sounds like a lot of work.
No, it's not.
No, real quick though.
Did you see the little race?
It's pretty fun.
This is way off topic because you brought a Bush up.
Josh Jones posted and has a Bush's new,
it was a new content on their Instagram with the Clydesdale
and this, this bird that turned into an eagle.
It is awesome.
Have I ever told you the story?
No.
About the, when we announced the, the Budweiser deal.
No.
All right.
We're a little off topic.
I love story time.
Great story.
So in 2000 and let's see, 2010 we lost shell.
2011 Budweiser was coming on board.
So they, they, you know, Budweiser was always through the roof
on activation and the things that they did.
So, so we announced the Budweiser deal.
My very first appearance was in New Orleans after it was at the end of 2010.
And we rode, I rode the hitch of the Clydesdale.
The Clydesdales, we rode them from downtown down to Bourbon street.
Oh my.
They shut Bourbon street down.
That sounds like good.
And we delivered beer to 10, the top 10 wholesalers on Bourbon street.
That's cool.
One, one event at a time.
So I, I get off the Clydesdale, I get off the hitch,
walk down, deliver to the beer, the bar, get back up on the hitch.
We'd ride to the next one.
Listen, man, that's what we.
Anybody throw beads at you?
Huh?
Did you even throw beads at you?
No, he didn't throw beads.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bourbon street's wild.
I've been there.
I've been there one time.
I think we should have an Ascar race somewhere in New Orleans nearby.
I think that's me at time.
Yeah.
That'd be a good time.
That's a good story.
I'm surprised you haven't told us that one yet.
Well, I remember you things randomly.
Listen, you got to kind of shake it.
You got to shake the bag and then you see what falls out.
Cause Kevin, he's antique.
He doesn't know exactly.
Oh my.
I think I've told this.
Did I tell the story about the first race that we won at SHR?
No.
Yeah.
So they used to give me a credit card and my job was when I would go to the
bars, I would just buy drinks.
Oh wait.
Yes.
You have told this one.
So yeah, we went there and we bought 2,200 Budweisers for the whole bar.
In Vegas.
At Vegas.
Yeah.
And that was our celebration party.
Yeah.
Can we do that again?
Don't you still have like a Bushlight card or something?
I'm sure we could arrange it.
I'm sure he's.
Can we do that?
We could arrange it.
The Bushlight card in the late model somewhere before.
I'm sure that we could probably figure that out.
So one more thing I want to ask while we're talking about the points and all
that, who we've talked about, who we think it will be a disadvantage to.
Who do you think could be the one with an advantage with the format?
I mean, the guys with experience, I still think it's going to be,
it's going to be the Denny Hamlin, Joey Logano.
Yeah, give me five.
Give me five.
I'd say Hamlin, Logano.
I think Blaney is, I mean, he had a little spell at the beginning of the
year last year where he had some things go wrong, but he's usually super consistent.
So Blaney, I think William Byron has ventured into that category.
Chase Elliott.
Chase Elliott.
I mean, when you look at his stats, I mean, they're finishers.
They're old school racers.
And I think that that style of racing is going to matter to be able to gather
all those points.
Yeah, it's different now, right?
Like we're not guessing who's in the final four.
So like, yeah, like top five, right?
Because that's really what we're, kind of all you can kind of guess it off of.
I would look at Blaney.
I would look at William Byron.
And mainly because those two guys have been perennials at the end of the
season anyway.
And then you got C bell.
I think that cat is hungry and that he was one of the biggest
proponents to a change.
So he, this is, you know, you got what he asked for.
But you can't have those blowups, right?
Like, no, now you can't have it.
You just can't, you can have those weekends like we talk about with
Bell and some of these guys.
Even Byron.
You can't, yeah, you can't have those moments where, you know, the wheels
fall off and you finish 20th.
If you have three finishes, if you have three finishes of 25th or worse.
After you've had a top five day.
Better be winning.
You, like flipping that back over is not going to be.
Multiple wins.
It's a whole lot easier and a lot of that will start at Daytona.
They will be taking points.
It starts in the, in those qualifying races and you, they start
gathering points there and you better start counting them.
And Clint Boyer will, he hates when I talk about this, but it is more
important now just like it used to be.
You better start counting those points.
I could see a briscoe doing well with this format.
Well, briscoe's, briscoe's going to do better anyway, because of the fact
that they're on year two.
And the thing about, the thing about the briscoe team, how do you,
how do you come back and carry that same enthusiasm of preparation?
You know, James has got to stay hard on, on chase with everything
that he did last year, maybe even go at him a little bit harder
because, you know, carrying that enthusiasm.
We talk about this on here.
How do you carry that enthusiasm every single week?
And this is what Jimmy Johnson and Chad Canals created, right?
And I've talked about this after we won in 14, the first conversation
we had is, okay, how do we be like the 48?
How do we carry that enthusiasm and what they do on an every single
week basis?
It's hard.
And with this car, it's going to be even harder.
So you're going to see, you're going to see some guys
that have the same trend.
They're going to fire off good and wait for, for the first
five or six weeks going to start to stumble.
And then you're going to see some other teams start to,
start to make it up.
But, you know, you look at a guy like Joey Logano, that can take
those weeks where they're struggling, which I'm worried
about the Fords in general, just, and I think Wayney has carried
the torch, but, you know, the guys that can carry their team
to decent finishes until they get things sorted, those are
the guys that you got to look out for that keep them,
keep themselves in the game.
I'm really looking at a guy like Brad keselowski.
Yeah, I'm really, I'm really looking at what, what this
does for Kyle Busch.
I think this is probably a better, a better situation for him,
better, like they, because they weren't perennial winners,
right?
And he can, he can still put the car in his back and create
that.
And now that it's about points and not about, well, if we
don't win, we're screwed anyway, that might be a better
situation for him.
And 2311 last year, Tyler Reddick was not, the 45 was
not the same 45 that we saw the year before.
Yeah.
Bubba Walls had a lot of speed, but they couldn't finish a
lot of races.
They finally won the brickyard.
So like, what are those two guys?
Obviously they got Riley Herps on year two, but what are
those guys?
And what's that team going to do this year?
The lawsuit thing is gone.
Now you can focus in on just race cars.
What do we got?
Reddick's got to win.
Got to.
He was, he was brought there to win and not winning
is, is, is a, he's at the point where it's a
failure.
It's a little alarming.
Yeah.
And Kyle Busch winning for our sport would be
massive.
It'd be great for RCR, but for our sport in general,
Kyle Busch to, to get back into victory lane, I don't
know, you know, is, is new crew chief coming in,
restructuring, Mike Dillon back at, back at the
head of the operation.
Will the RCR cars be better?
But Kyle Busch can't spin out and wreck as much as
he did either.
If he's going to be in the game, but Kyle Busch
winning, just if we just need Kyle Busch to
win one race because he is such an intricate part
of the sport.
Just the sport in general.
And I, and I hate to see where it's at right now
for him because whenever he does retire, he
doesn't, you don't want that legacy to go out
like Jimmy Johnson did, right?
Where you go three years without winning races
and, and, um, you know, to me, I'm, I'm
rooting for Kyle Busch.
That's rare.
I mean, post career more, I root for Kyle
Busch because it sucks when, when you see
something that's been so successful, not being
victory.
And he's still great.
That's the thing.
He still has all the tools.
And it's not like he's, I don't think he's
missed a step or lost a step.
I just think it hasn't come together with this
car and they need to figure that out.
Well, you guys are talking about Kyle Busch,
which Kevin mentioned it, Jim Pullman,
now the crew chief for him who helped
guide Justin Allgaier, of course, to a
championship in the Xfinny series.
That will be the guy on top of the pit
box for Kyle in 2026.
So what about trackouts?
How do you think this dynamic is going to
be this year with their trio of drivers?
Yeah.
Well, I think that there's a lot of questions,
right?
Like they've made a number of changes
within their organization.
Got two new crew chiefs with their cars.
They've got a new driver with with
Conor Zillich coming in to replace
Daniel Suarez.
I think that SVG is, he got a lot better
on the ovals.
He's obviously changed the game on road
courses.
He's going to get back to Victory Lane.
The interesting dynamic to me is on the road
courses, how does Conor adapt to the road
courses?
And does he get to the point where they
competed like they did in the Grand National Series?
Grand National Series.
In the Grand National Series, do they compete
like they did head to head in the
Grand National Series?
And is there a possibility that they split
those races up with their dominance?
So, you know, I think Conor has a high
ceiling of potential.
I think SVG has a high ceiling of potential
even on the ovals with the progression
that he's had.
We saw him run great at the clash last
year.
We saw him start to run better on the
mile and a half with some top 10s.
Conor's got a whole new world in front of
him.
I actually got to sit down with Conor
and do an interview for the pre-race
at the clash.
And, you know, there's just so many
things that he's going to have to
navigate.
And I think that it's just how does he
acclimate to the car and the style of
racing and all the things that go with
cup racing.
There's as big a step as you're ever
going to take in your career going from
Grand National to cup.
So it's very the dynamic you expect
Ross Chastain to win, right?
Like we just said this about Tyler
Reddick, he's got to win.
Ross has to win.
He has the work ethic.
He has the talent.
He has everything that he needs
personally.
And it all comes down to how fast the
cars are for all of these guys,
especially when it comes to the ovals.
Yeah, I'll be curious to see how Conor
and SVG elevate each other.
Rising tides, raised all ships, as they say.
Yeah, they, I mean.
Their own toughest competitors will be
each other on those road courses.
Yeah.
I mean, on the O'Reilly series,
Grand National series, they were
definitely throwing haymakers at
each other whenever they could.
And here it's a little, it's
completely different because there
SVG wasn't raising for anything but the win.
Conor was, I mean, obviously he was already
in the, what was the playoffs then,
but like they were racing for different
things now when you're at the top level,
when you guys wreck each other,
your owner is going to feel a lot different
about that than how Dale Jr.
was feeling about it last year.
So I think their, their relationship
is going to change and it should
our iron should sharpen iron in that
situation.
I think the interesting part for SVG
last year, I remember he posted a video,
I think it was from Vegas explaining
the air moving and there's a video
of him on track, the air moving,
how close to the wall, the lanes,
all the things.
And he's learning this stuff real time
and he was explaining it.
He's racing IQ is super high.
Super high.
So his floor is high and it pushes
his ceiling higher because we don't
know what he could be because
he's basically in year two, right?
I mean, it's like we don't know
exactly whether this will be on the oval.
So I would expect a lot out of him.
And then you look at Connor Zillich,
he's like, when you look at other sports,
he's like the kid, the guy that came
from outside the U S playing now sports
in the U S and you expect him to be
at a high level because he's a world
class athlete.
He's a world class driver, right?
He's been racing with grown man
at the top series all over the world,
but it's different here and we're
different here.
And now you're racing with specialists
in this and how he can elevate
and become one of those specialists,
but he has everything.
He's a thing that the kids call aura.
He's got it.
Like he's got the it factory is a clean
look.
He's a well-spoken kid.
Everyone likes him.
And then he's got a super smart,
super smart.
And then you got Ross and Ross is
like Ross is your workhorse.
And he's been leading this team,
I think for a while as far as holding
it all together, right?
Because Daniel was on one year deal
after one year deal.
Ross has kind of been your cornerstone
to your franchise and he's done
a great job in the media.
He wins big races, but he has to win
more than one, especially with this deal.
And he's another one that can be
sneaky with this point system,
because he's a grinder.
And I think that we left him out earlier
of being able to take a 15th place
car, which he had a lot last year,
and finish in the top 10 with it
and sneak out some top fives.
Ross is one of those guys that can
grind those out.
But if Ross Chastain isn't winning
races, your cars aren't fast enough.
That's, yeah, that's a fair, yeah.
That's the bottom line.
He's asked Chastain, he should be
winning multiple races every year.
And if you're not winning races,
your cars are not fast enough.
You guys have been talking.
Now, hold on.
Uh-oh.
We got a wild card in all this.
They do have a new body.
They do have a new body.
They do have a new body.
Chevrolet has a new body.
So with this car.
What happens with a new body?
I don't think you'll see it at
Bowman Gray.
I think that, but when you get to
Daytona, you got to work the balance out.
So I think that there is going to be
some, some, there might not be,
but I mean, there's going to be,
they might be great on super speedways.
They might be great on short tracks.
They might be great on intermediates.
We don't really know that yet.
They're guessing.
They've done no, no more than guess
at this point.
They can tell you whatever they want,
but they got, they're going to have
to work out the balance of that new body.
It will take them some time to get it
worked out on all the tracks.
They're probably going to hit it
somewhere, but I don't think any of
us know exactly which type of track.
Anytime a new body is introduced,
it does come with some growing pain.
So I had a funny story.
I wanted to add really fast on Conor Zillich.
When we were at the hangar shoot,
you know, the room with all the extras.
We had a very cool room where there's
30 extras in there.
It was weird.
Kyle, the shots looked amazing.
Shots look great, but it was weird.
Doing it in Bowman Gray as well.
So Kyle Busch was in there
and Conor Zillich was on deck
and Kyle Busch yells out to me,
he said, Hey Conor,
I found all your extras for when
you get hurt again.
Oh man.
I was like, oh, that's a burner.
That's pretty good.
Kyle, he's a witty humor.
Bro, he's pretty witty.
I got a hand to him.
Yeah.
Oh, the hangar shoot.
It'll be interesting.
Yeah.
We're hoping for no injuries, Conor.
We don't want to put that energy out there.
So.
Bowman Busch won a championship
and missed 11 races.
This is true.
He broke two legs.
Two legs.
I can't remember who finished second, but.
Again, those are the things
we're going to remember about Kyle.
So one other little story
that kind of matriculated for a bit
was Chris Gabehart.
What was that word?
Can you say that again, please?
Matriculated?
Say it slowly so we can try it out.
I'll give you another word.
It's circled around.
Oh, that's what that means.
Matriculated.
Okay, circled around.
I like that.
Okay.
Okay.
Was Chris Gabehart potentially leaving Gibbs?
Obviously he's been an integral part
for quite some time.
Yeah.
I mean, Chris has been a huge part of the 11 team.
I think that,
so as a business owner for me
going through the years,
it's always interesting the difference
in a crew chief and a general manager,
competition director, whatever it is.
And I think that there's some of those crew chiefs
that can step out of that box
and do things in another role.
Some are just built for crew chief, right?
So it is interesting to see how
all of this unfolded with Chris Gabehart
and everything that happened at Joe Gibbs Racing.
So I'm not sure the details of what, why,
how it all played out.
But I think that Chris is a smart guy.
Obviously he's been right there,
won a lot of races with Denny Hamlin,
won a lot of races in other divisions.
And I think the interesting part to me is
last year, I would say the 11 team
was as good as they've ever been.
With a different crew chief.
With a different crew chief.
Now, I think Chris being on the competition side
and still being there helps that 11 team stay together.
But those guys did a phenomenal job.
So very interesting scenario to see how it's all
cycled out with Gabehart not there anymore.
Yeah. I mean, that's probably as big of news
as Rodney moving from Spire Middle last year.
I mean, like when I think of the crew chiefs
that have been around and are renowned
throughout the garage, like it's Rodney and Chris,
like those are the two guys.
And so it's going to be a loss, how it's a loss
we probably won't really know until the season gets going
and see how that works.
And we also don't know where he's going to end up
or what he's going to end up doing.
So he's kind of out on the ether.
And it's February.
And it's February.
Like we're going to a race this weekend.
Yeah, we're at a race.
And he's one of the most talented crew chiefs
like in the sport.
And he's available.
So who's going to, who's going to write the check?
You know, you go get him.
But he's right in check.
Someone's right in the check.
So real quick, because I just mentioned Rodney,
the JRM team, what they have from a driver lineup
over there is absolutely bonkers.
I'm so intrigued.
I know that the driver lineup,
but just from a personal standpoint,
because I know Rodney so well,
just him working on, on what we raced so well
with that, that style of car,
somewhat in the, in the grand national series
is, is very intriguing to me.
And just what he thinks of, of the,
of the garage and how it functions
and the style of racing and having multiple drivers.
I can't wait to see and hear what he has to say,
see what happens and hear what he has to say
off out of the racetrack to, to hear his experience.
That's going to be very interesting.
It'll be like, I would have to imagine
I would, I'm excited to see what he says.
I think it'll be like what Parker Klingerman says,
classic stock car racing is where, is where that is.
And I think he'll feel probably at home in that space.
He's got-
What point does it become classic?
When, when there's a gap between what you're doing
and what you're like, you're a classic.
Yeah.
You know, like Keelan's new classic.
Yeah, you're a classic.
Wait, I think Rodney has Connor,
or not Connor, Connor,
Carson Quaple and Connor Zillich.
That's right.
And then in the 88, which is almost all hundredcars.com
from what I understand is like all their cup guys
and Raj has like a half a season in it.
So like what the information and the things going on
at JRM are pretty high level.
Yeah.
And I think it's, you know, for Quaple,
I think it's really interesting because he's a winner
and he's really good at what he does.
I think he had a bad situation with what he was doing
last year and in a scenario.
And I just, I think his, the evolution that we'll see
Carson go through, just having a leader like Rodney
and the experience that Rodney has
is going to be fun to watch as well.
There are many reasons to be intrigued as we look
towards the 2026 season across all of the series.
So we will see everyone once again,
Tuesday after the clash, first race of the year
in a snowy potentially Winston Salem venue.
We can't wait for it.
So make sure you follow us on social media,
subscribe on YouTube wherever you get your podcast
and we will see you all after the clash.
Today at QuantumFiber.com.
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