New Management, Less Money, MR and Three Turbos
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Term
40 billion
40 billion is a large amount of money that Porsche made last year. It helps show how successful the company is overall.
Car
Ferrari 296 GTB
The Ferrari 296 is a new sports car that uses both a gasoline engine and an electric motor to improve performance and reduce emissions.
Car
Porsche Caymans
The Porsche Cayman is a small sports car that is fun to drive and easy to handle. It has a powerful engine and is designed for people who love driving and want a car that feels exciting on the road.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a two-seat convertible sports car that is known for being fun to drive and having a stylish design. It's a great option for those who enjoy driving with the top down.
Term
EVs
EVs stands for electric vehicles, which are cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline. They are better for the environment and can save money on fuel.
Term
hybrid
A hybrid car has two types of engines: one that runs on gasoline and another that runs on electricity. This helps save fuel and is better for the environment.
Concept
EV
An EV is a car that runs only on electricity, so it doesn’t use gas. This makes it better for the environment and can save money on fuel.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a classic sports car that many people recognize by its unique shape. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, and it's been around for a long time, which makes it a favorite among car lovers.
Term
RS
The 'RS' stands for 'Rennsport' in Porsche models, meaning they are designed for racing and high performance. These cars are usually faster and more powerful than standard models.
Term
GT2 RS
The GT2 RS is a super-fast version of the Porsche 911 sports car. It's built for high performance and is often used on racetracks because of its powerful engine and lightweight design.
Car
Porsche Macan
Car
Porsche Taycan
The Porsche Taycan is an electric car that can go really fast and is designed to be fun to drive. It’s Porsche's way of making a car that’s good for the environment while still being exciting.
Car
Porsche Panamera
The Porsche Panamera is a luxury car that has four doors and is designed to be both fast and comfortable. It offers a mix of sports car performance and luxury features.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
Term
twin-turbo
Twin-turbo means the engine has two turbochargers instead of one. This helps the engine produce more power and respond faster when you press the gas pedal.
Term
combustion engine
A combustion engine is what most cars use to run. It works by burning fuel to create power, which makes the car move. Many new cars are now using electric or hybrid engines instead.
Term
emissions
Emissions are the harmful gases that come out of a car's exhaust when it burns fuel. Reducing these emissions is important for keeping the air clean and fighting climate change.
Term
displacement
Displacement is how much space the engine's cylinders take up. Bigger displacement usually means more power, but it can also mean the car uses more fuel.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. More horsepower usually means the car can go faster and accelerate quicker.
Term
torque
Torque is how strong an engine is when it comes to moving the car. More torque means the car can start moving faster and pull heavier loads.
Car
Porsche 911 Turbo S
The Porsche 911 Turbo S is a super-fast version of the 911 that has a turbocharged engine, which means it can go really fast. It's a mix of luxury and speed, making it a favorite among those who love powerful cars.
Car
Porsche Gt3S
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super-fast version of the 911 that is built for racing and high-speed driving. It's lighter and has a more powerful engine, which makes it really exciting to drive on a racetrack.
Term
air-cooled engine
An air-cooled engine is one that stays cool by using air instead of water or other liquids. Many older Porsches have this type of engine, which gives them a special feel and sound when driving.
Brand
Lamborghini
Lamborghini is another famous Italian car brand that makes very fast and flashy sports cars. They are known for their unique designs and powerful engines, making them popular among car enthusiasts.
Term
reliability
Reliability means how well a car works over time without breaking down. A reliable car is one you can trust to get you where you need to go without problems.
Term
maintenance
Maintenance is the work you do to keep a car running well. This includes things like changing the oil, checking the brakes, and making sure everything is safe and working properly.
Term
restomod
Restomod means taking an old car and fixing it up with new parts to make it better. It's like giving a classic car a modern upgrade while keeping its original style.
Term
air-cooled car
Air-cooled cars are vehicles that use air to keep the engine cool instead of liquid coolant. This was common in older cars, making them lighter and easier to maintain.
Term
suspension
The suspension is the part of a car that connects the body to the wheels. It helps the car handle bumps and turns smoothly, making the ride more comfortable.
Term
clapped out
A 'clapped out' car is one that is very worn down and not in good shape. It usually has many problems and looks bad because it hasn't been taken care of.
Term
G-body
G-body refers to a type of car platform made by General Motors that includes popular models like the Monte Carlo. These cars are often sought after by collectors and modifiers.
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that the car maker suggests you should pay for a new car. It's like a starting point for negotiations when buying a car.
Car
Porsche 918 Spyder
The Porsche 918 Spyder is a super-fast car that uses both a regular engine and electric power to go really quickly. It's special because it can be more efficient while still being a lot of fun to drive.
Car
Porsche 917
The Porsche 917 is a famous race car that was really fast and won a lot of races in the 1970s. It's known for being one of the best race cars ever made and helped Porsche become a big name in racing.
Car
Porsche Carrera GT
The Porsche Carrera GT is a really special and fast car that was made in small numbers. It has a powerful engine and is loved by car collectors for how amazing it is to drive.
LIVE
we are here to bring you everything and anything surrounding Portia I'm Mike I'm
Aaron and this is P car talk all right welcome to another episode of P car talk
I'm Mike and I'm Aaron should we thank our people I would have I still can't get
into it I'm well you'll be thanked thank you guys yes thank you thank you no thank
you thank you but in all seriousness I'm not trying to make a mockery of it we
do appreciate you guys that are P car club members we're not forgetting about
you now that the rally stuff is over you are gonna get your new year right yep
yeah if you listen to the show and you don't know we don't have your shirt
shirt size get get to us DMS email us something part of the kimchi crew yeah
if you're part of that like crew you're gonna get a shirt and if you don't tell
us what the size is I think we send you an extra smaller just to be like pricks
about it like dude send me an extra small shirt or what will be we'll send you
like remember they used to sell the gas stations back in the day we'll sell you
the extra long T and give you the like that triple triple XL where it's as long
as a curtain and you're like what the hell am I supposed to do we're gonna have
both those then we put on the wheel and then what do you do dude that would be so
good but anyways get your sizes into us if you haven't most of you when you
initially signed up you guys were bright enough to go ahead and tell us your
shirt size because we asked for it not yeah and then we have them so if you're
already part of that crew and and you what we have your stuff unless you've
gained some weight or you will have zimpicked out like let us know everyone
you've done we can we can make a change for you but if we don't need a change
for you just keep status quo but I promise you we since we are doing this
more regularly every week like we used to do it we will get back on the thank you
list Erin right you're gonna do that yeah okay moving forward alright Porsche
projected to lose 1.1 billion and a quarterly loss just a quarter who see
that number kind of staggered me as well like your reaction I was like man I
wonder how much they make in a year so I looked looked at last year that was
reported so they made 40 billion last year so when you hear that number now one
I mean billion still a lot of money so they made 40 billion I don't want to say
you don't feel bad for me there's no way to feel bad for you know a gazillion
dollar company you don't feel bad for him but they're reporting that however I
think this is a little bit of funny funny business reporting in the sense of I
think they're over projecting a loss that's my personal opinion I'm not
saying they're gonna do it I think that they're I think they're being overly
cautious so like meaning like the board won't freak out when they say oh we're
gonna lose 1 billion and they actually lose I don't know 900 million and they're
like oh dude we bogos we did all right I can get doors like this now yeah I'm
out of the B Club yeah Porsche will never be out of the B Club two and a half
percent loss yeah over the years for this quarter so if they could lose it I
mean can't have a lot of quarters like that obviously but if it's just one
anomaly but anyways I think it's I think it's a high level like macro number
where they're kind of like I think they're actually if I'm not mistaken
that I didn't go back but this quarters numbers I actually think posted
already or where they're at the mid what you know like where they think they're
at and they're actually less than they're projecting okay but I think it's
going back to what I was saying I think they're they're over projecting and if
they come in under I think they're gonna be like yeah hey guys see we we
actually you're we're turning it around you know I think it's one of those like
dude we went we're gonna go 0 and 100 it's like dude we won 10 games not bad
like Shanghila style is like not bad but anyways so lots of changes with
Porsche I bring that number up because they terminated their past CEO hired a
new CEO not a person who's not familiar with Porsche Michael lighters prior
Porsche employee worked at Ferrari McLaren at you know high-level doing
major things with those departments now now he's running the ship also spent a
lot of his career with the Volkswagen group as well they probably checked off
a bunch of boxes for Porsche then like yep well I mean he's already been there
I I think it's he he was in charge of Ferrari when they came out with the 296
hybrid okay there's a lot of people projecting meaning like automotive
journalists thinking that this is gonna be Porsche's hybrid era like where I
mean they already have hybrids yeah but we've already got into it yeah like he's
kind of like a hybrid guy that's kind of like his thing I think it's more of
just timing I think they were gonna go that way anyways and maybe they maybe
they decided to align what they were gonna do anyways with somebody already
had that kind of mind that's kind of you know driving the ship I'm sure there's
I mean there's probably a lot of things to learn to production wise and manufacturers he
knows about yeah things that they stumble upon in the other the other lines
yeah pros and cons of like the process right how to maybe streamline some stuff
how to save some money somewhere right so that that we are on that era he has
not actually officially taken over I think that begins January 26 alright so
GT2RS January 26 we already know it's gonna be probably a hybrid system and
they're they've already I'm saying he launches they launch yeah it's funny but
obviously like they're the profit margins obviously significantly gonna go
down as we talked in prior podcast there they're just gonna be producing less
cars I mean no combustion microns no combustion Caymans and boxers for at
least a couple years before they can like basically re-release those cars under a
combustion probably hybrid so like these are basically three blanks that are
sitting on a bed right now and he's probably gonna love that because he's
gonna be like great we're gonna hybrid and then you know not to speak ill of
him he's gonna look like a genius right because he's gonna come in and it's all
timing and they're gonna be like oh yeah he's got the Macon hybrid under him he's
got the you know the Porsche Boxster and Cayman hybrid under him and you know now
profit margins are great again and they're selling like crazy but that's
still not gonna happen for a couple years so like do you think it's just
forcing people to buy the EVs at the end of the day because that's all we have so
it's kind of one it's one it's easier for if you're a salesperson because now you
got less things to to push from the same perspective yeah like they say that
they're not having a problem say selling Macons but EVs but yeah I whatever I
don't I haven't seen the near as much I mean they're clearly not selling that
many of them if they're posting 1.1 billion dollar losses yeah so clearly
not enough it's basically like a pebble in a lake it's just that's just when
I'm gone yeah now the Chinese market they've lost a lot over there they were
buying and that and that's due to a lot of things right like they were buying a
lot of Porsche projected EVs like like tie cans and all that stuff but if you
don't pay attention to the automotive industry we're not gonna have these
cars here just because the way our tariff system works and our relationship
with China is from an automotive perspective but their companies automotive
companies in China are making tons of EVs and they're making luxurious EVs and
their people are now buying their own brand as opposed to going outside yeah
and they're probably getting a lot more for their money and it's probably easier
to regulate the the import fees and the tariffs coming in are probably zero
because obviously it's homegrown yeah so there's that and before it used to be a
technology and quality and performance thing but I think all of the ones that
they're currently making meaning China like cuz you know Doug's done some
reviews on them but you know obviously we're just gonna get to see what what
they're like not actually on our roads but mean from a statistical standpoint
longevity will be determined obviously like they could fall apart in the rain
who knows but they're very powerful like they're very like they're doing wild
stuff with a suspension on them more than a lot of American companies are or
even European companies so they're ahead in that department and their general
populace is not filling the need to buy Porsches anymore like they were buying a
bunch of them before and I think they're losing a significant amount of money
there and they were and we've talked about it many times and they had tons of
press articles I want to say this is maybe two years ago before we knew this
EV thing was gonna you know basically sink like a rock they were talking about
how they were placating towards the Chinese market or like hey we're building
a longer yeah like because people like to be driven there that's a status
thing that's probably so then they they projected and made these cars and now
they're not selling and people are buying them so you know and then they made
them specifically for that market like nobody's unfortunate yeah but they can
only be upset at themselves right like if they don't stay ahead of that game
like they allow that I mean they're that couldn't have been a secret if you're in
that automotive arena yeah like you have to know what people are obviously doing
like around you and the people that you compete with especially the countries
that you sell to like it that had to have been on the radar there's gonna be
somebody in control that market yeah anyway this is one of those things like
we're probably gonna see Porsche probably the next 24 months from a new
perspective obviously the old stuff is still gold and I say old it I'm talking
even like 9999 2.1 like that's considered old I'm just like not brand new
production stuff all the circulating stuff that exists for multiple reasons
now we have tariffs that are at play we have all these other stuff but also
Porsche is gonna they've openly said that they're just gonna make less cars
because it costs them money so and they have three lines that they're not gonna
be wrong like for the next probably two years we're not gonna see a hybrid
whatever and again it's not gonna be called a Macon because the Macon EVs
that but I'm calling it that whatever hybrid SUV they mid-grade SUV they end
up making and then they when they relaunched they came in and boxed our
hybrid it's we're gonna they're not gonna sell those for then that was a big
bulk of their I guess high-level macro green number where they're sitting
here it's like all right total cars sold that was a big piece of that pie even
according to Mike remember Mike was like they're like they're gonna sell I don't
remember the exact number it was in that show but like it was a big percentage
it was basically like 30% less cars overall which is insane you know it's back
to like honestly it's back to the way it was before they had kind of any of the
other cars where it was just 9-11 what they have that's what I was kind of
thinking when I was writing this I was thinking kind of like well they still
have a lot more cars than they used to have back in the day but they're kind
of dwindling down not even purposely just kind of like adjusting to the climate
and it's kind of the market correction from back in the day when they started
going from their low mark like when they needed to save the company it's about
it's I don't know they need to save the company but yeah that's a way to start
thinking fresh and moving towards a better Porsche yeah and you know this is
an opportunity for them to kind of like clean the slate you know they got fat
trim some fat right like and maybe we'll see a lot less projects that oh hey
we're we're building an RS we're building a this and we're building another ST
we're doing that we're gonna build a you know a GT2 RS touring instead of a
big-winged car you know like all of these little spin-offs however maybe not
though because all of those specialty cars they don't have a single problem
selling them no and there's a small and you wouldn't even bump near the
production numbers you are with a Boxster or Cayman yeah I mean they
probably it would be nice if they went to where we've talked about and a lot of
other episodes where they really the day-to-day fleet shrinks considerably
because it would make them more agile it would make dealerships more agile where
basically okay we've established that they're they've spent the money so they
want that Macan EV to be around Taycan seems like they they're not giving up
on that like even if they sell like one like they're like hey we're making this
thing you can eat this old one we're gonna keep them around might need them to
start fires when it gets cold we don't know we might need them to burn down
buildings we don't know anyways but that clearly that's not going anywhere but
then like I mean you got a Panamera then you're gonna have a Cayenne EV they've
been making a stink about that that thing needs to really come out they're
saying it's gonna be great it's gonna do all this stuff and all right we'll see
it probably will and then you know then there's gonna be a gap right like no
mid-grade sports cars it's gonna be 9-11 surprise they don't get rid of the
Panamera too because that would just make you now you that would make sense
because then you'd have as your Cayenne EV comes in there you already had a
Macan EV and then you have your Taycan then you have your triple EVs but I
think that they feel like they need something even in the sedan world to be
a combustion since so essentially I think what their architecture wants to be
is whatever EV they have they want to have at least a hybrid if it's not full
combustion if it's a hybrid mix something that's an option out so when you do go
to the dealership even if you're not most people know what they want when they
go there but there are some people that probably go there that don't know what
they want they're like well I want a sedan and I don't want an EV it's like
all right cool the Panamera right so I think that's here's your puzzle piece
yeah I think that's what they want so we're gonna have a Cayenne EV and we'll
probably have a Cayenne hybrid like that's not gonna call it hybrid but it
will be a hybrid like it'll be a hybrid V8 V6 whatever and that'll be their
combustion you know sister car to the EV essentially and then whatever they end
up calling the Macan EV or I mean hybrid that'll be that car I mean that'll be
all the I mean it really could be all the Cayenne motors that they're twin
turboed or any turbine yeah I think they're always to do a one-for-one
meaning like we got an EV of this and we got a hybrid of it yeah I don't I don't
think there's gonna be too many days left where the combustion engines with
even the day-to-day stuff is gonna be just full NA that's a hybrid I can't I
think that's done yeah I think that stuff's gonna be reserved just for the
motorsport stuff I mean I would I think it has to be I think we're just at a
point where emissions it just yeah it is where it is and it's not gonna get any
lighter for anybody else yeah I think it'll get to a point where like I think
are in a sweet spot in a way from a consumer standpoint where where they
were shoving the EVs down people's throats well now they don't have to do
that anymore this opens the door for them to almost slide a hybrid in and
actually have a very positive response as opposed to maybe before EVs existed
where people are like why would I buy a hybrid when I can buy a regular in a 9
11 well that's not the case anymore so now they're like well thank God there's
at least a hybrid version of this for me to buy so like meaning like it changed
the people's perspective of being thankful for the hybrid combustion engine
as opposed to just being like well you're not gonna get anything then you're
like okay well I'll take the three-liter with the the electric like assist
motor in it because at least it's still a three-liter right like so though I
think that's I think that's gonna happen moving forward at least in the Porsche
lineup I don't think every auto manufacturer is gonna seize that
opportunity as they should but I don't think they will I think Porsche is
definitely gonna capitalize on it I think pretty soon every 9-11 will have
the same GTS architecture hybrid situation going on where there's
hybridizing you know like the turbo or whatever you know like it's assisting the
system all the way through I think it's gonna be all the way it's gonna work
its way into the base car like I think the base yeah that makes sense it's
different tune it's like LA been doing it with in the head when they moved the
turbos and and eventually I think you know even the the NA cars in this in the
sports car the motorsports division will start to phase out too I think they'll
still be in a I think the displacement will go down and I think they'll have a
hybrid assist some some some sort of make up for that horsepower situation but
they'll also it'll probably almost be the same horsepower same torque but
smaller displacement so what if they bring my like the like a RS27 motor and
then I don't know if they'll go that far down I mean like these four leaders I
think I think three will probably be as small as they go and it probably won't
even go that far down I bet it I bet it'll still be like three six like a you
know they'll be like hey remember the old Carrera air-cooled three twos like
it's probably made like a three two and then throw it back to a three two yeah
and then put like crash bumpers on it like here's our throwback car bring it
back the accordion bumpers yeah but anyways going back talking about the old
stuff again real quickly all of this stuff all of the the changing of the
architecture changing of the guard all of this stuff I think is gonna make that
stuff gold additionally I'm gonna spin into this and then I'll and then I'll
piggyback on to what I was saying about the gold for the old stuff Porsche CFO
makes a statement that they will increase the pricing again in the US so
it's going up again even though that was such a big stink over the summer about
how they like 15% will like the Kimba numbers yeah so he he said that that
going up how that's possible I don't know again I think they're throwing mud at
the wall and hoping like they can get as much money as they can like cutting
cutting race programs increasing pricing here like that they're literally
throwing the parachute out and seeing how much money they can bag and this
will play even more into the Manti stuff like because they're shopping to sell
their shares in Manti too like they're just shopping it they are like a now
they but they've they're not denying that they're shopping it so it's like
they're literally this sounds like fire cell type stuff right weird weird to be
doing that like but anyway so going back so now he that's official that's not
speculation that the pricing is going up again the US and that's specific to the
US that's not worldwide 8% didn't say just said they're 8% yeah we're just
trying to keep up with inflation like what do we're starting with my paychecks
not keeping up with inflation so you want me to spend more like how does that
work everybody else in the world asks more for things but no one's pay's gone
up that much that base 9-11's gonna be that much more and that I mean now I
guess that turbo s gonna definitely be at 300 yeah well that that that leads me
to say everything else that was already produced that's already living on the
US soil already took in its deeper depreciation if if not or is that
actually just adds more staying power to everything it exists right 991.2.1
GT3's even the even the dot ones where everybody's afraid of them
grenade if those are still carrying weight because people are like dude I'm
not paying I'm not paying 300,000 for a 992 GT3 I'm not doing it so
people go and they go seek you know a g-series motor out on a 991 and go buy
that and get probably what 85% of the feels like there's probably 15% that
you're not getting from the brand-new car you know with the double wishbone the
power or all that stuff I mean that's a special thing to the end of the day too
you can probably you can if you're really yeah if you really wanted to spend
some money you could probably get it to do some stuff if you haven't driven it
you want to you're missing it yeah that's true you don't know what you don't
know right so and on the flip side of that right so even if you don't if you
stay out at night go further back go air-cooled all this other stuff what it
does is just sprinkles even more magic on all of this stuff that already exists
and not even intentionally because it's just simple math right the current
stuff continues to go up people don't value it as much it's clear because look
at all those three rs's that took monster depreciation that that is actually
from their motorsport division now there was some stuff like then you know
the 9-11r where people paid their ass off to go get one of those and then the
touring came out and then that you know the 9-11 when our R went down but now
it's gone back up but anyways it's still a 9-11r exactly so where people were
pissed about it and they're like oh you kind of made like a sister car to it and
I paid like three times the amount for it but these are learning more about the
9-11r and you're like all right it's nowhere yeah and if just like just like
a good if you're good at stocks and you did pay a lot back then and you hung on
now it's recovered and it's past the number that you paid because now they're
trading at high numbers yeah anyways the point of that is is that people don't
want to pay that huge price that Porsche is asking for the car I know we always
talk about it but ADM is a factor so then like you that that has to be
factored into the car so if you're buying some of these cars at face value
which the what I'm saying like the older stuff let's just use a 991.2 3rs for
example because they carry good money that car still valuable because of what's
happening to the cars ahead of it that the ask is so much I mean even as a
marked down somebody's trying to move it no accident newer 3rs compared to the
991.2 3rs like the price Delta is massively significant still there's
still a big number even on the cheapest ones and the most expensive three the
991.2 rrs like 3rs it's by still a prior hundred grand Delta
it's like almost 150 on most of them not all of them but on most of them and
it's kind of like dude you can buy the 3rs and you can go buy like a 991.1
turbo s for the price of that if you're doing or if you want if you're new to
the game and you want a motor sports car and you don't have anything you're like
I can go get a really nice air cooled for extra 150 grand and I can have a 991.2
3rs as opposed to buying the newest of the new I could buy another car then go
Mccony V and keep holding Porsche out there you go but I think I think people
are done not thinking for themselves I think the era of there was a lot of
people that would just be lemmings and walk to the dealership and look at the
ground until they got there and just said okay I'm here to buy the next
newest thing I think people are shopping past inventory well they give that
because they have made that a price comparison now because now they've had a
certain threshold and number where it's like before it was kind of in this no
man's land there's no reason to price compare yeah her price shop or nothing
nothing goes off in your head is a balance and all right well the equivalent
is this Ferrari or the equivalent is this Lambo and like yeah do I feel like I'm
as special Ferrari is much worse you know if you don't know yeah yeah and and I
think I think the invention of social media and so many other people I mean
we're contributing factors to not a big one because two people listen to us but
yeah me and my people like that have way more following that are on Instagram or
whether that be YouTube or TikTok or whatever their platform is you know they
have hundreds of thousands of followers or even millions of followers that are
car people and then and they keep saying it like they probably have more than just
Porsche they're not brand specific but they're like I don't lose money on on
Porsches so I go by you know 991.2 G through your 3rs and have fun with them
and then I sell them for what I have and I and I don't lose money you know you
have you that falls on several hundred thousands of years repetitively people
start to fucking listen yeah like whether they want to or not whether they're
willing to admit that's where that information came from and maybe some of
them go and actually test that water to see if it is like that and once they
seeing is believing or if they see the prices out there that they these guys
aren't just smoking mirrors they're like hey this guy is full of crap that I
follow that you know has like lambos and all this other stuff but what he said
about Porsche is accurate you know and when people start to realize that
especially I guess people who want to make sure they don't lose money it
becomes a no-brainer well I mean it's a nobody's I don't think I've heard it
described like this but it's a luxury enthusiast market it is and that's what
it is I mean for people that actually drive cars and do other things with enjoy
the car the way it was meant to be yeah what I think to like again you've seen it
on other podcasts you know because not that we follow somebody else on social
but it's one of those like clips you know like guys that have owned no kidding
not making this up like Bugatti's and all these other car like cars they're
like Porsche makes the best car dollar for dollar even with the most expensive
stuff that they're even selling now because how durable it is like so it's
it's not just opinionated based off of like no factors there they're these
guys have actually sat down and okay how much does it cost me to maintain this
car you know and that could be all the way from normal service to insurance or
whatever like I don't want to get in the weeds about it but they're like it's
super reliable I beat the shit out of this car and then at the end of the day
even if I bought brand new I still only lose like 10% like there's no other car
on the market like that that now there are cars that are appreciating that
don't lose like that but rely then you start to get into the reliability of
them you start to get into the maintenance of them it's like oh yeah
well you know my Bugatti's pretty nice it's super fast it's it's reliable but
it does have like $50,000 service like thing every other year if you put five
miles on that that's the other thing too if you put miles in these cars a lot of
time does not it is a depreciating factor but not as much as it is and it
really and I and I say that part what you just said I agree with it really
depends on your entry point because if you entered at a really low number that
mileage will never be a factor like you could put a hundred thousand miles on
the car if you really got in at a really good number on that car because what
ends up happening is you know because you're close enough to me where these
air cool cars no one cares what the what it actually says on the tech people want
to know oh when did you do an engine rebuild when did you do this yeah when
did you do trans like oh I mean we see it on every site you can imagine auction
site like these older rebuilt reimagined resto modded whatever name you
want to give them right like you take an air old air cool car tired ass like
motor that was in it and go put like a three eight or four liter that was built
and build the transmission refresh the transmission the suspension and
everything in the interior now you're looking at like a three four hundred
thousand dollar car when that thing clapped out was all of eighty thousand
before which is still a high number in clout for a clapped out car yeah but
obviously because you've done all those things no one no one in that market like
those that mileage and all that stuff all superseded that stuff all of those
stockers or people were like oh well is it original is it like all of those
builders the one positive thing that they did was basically whitewash that
entire market of people now I'm not saying there aren't people still looking
for like a g body it has like six thousand miles on it there are there's a
but that's a very small niche of that market because most of those cars were
driven most of those cars are modded so because of that that whitewash that
market and everybody's not like oh what's chassis have on it's like dude it
doesn't matter like the whole car is rebuilt what do you mean what's a chassis
have on it's like I don't know a million miles what does it matter and I think
it's not a factor and I think the people that do chase those numbers they're
not even buyers on those cars like real buyers yeah because they just they
can't wrap their heads around it so the point of bringing all that up is is it
this price increase for the new stuff just continues to add value to a market
where you don't think it could continue to go up but it does which is insane
yeah because the new stuff well that that's what I was saying like looks or
enthusiast perspective is we still have all the cars that they originally made
on the road for the most part like that's a thing and they think no other
car manufacturer has that type of market where it moves and it's crazy that to
think that they can raise prices on something new and then it just and then
it affects something from 75 and maybe yeah from 75 and not even like that the
8% mark but all of a sudden maybe that's a 20% jump yeah exactly I mean we've seen
it hands down again I don't want to talk about it because I still want one 996
turbos have gone up I did I did the math on it I think it was like 23% over the
last 18 months that's a large number for a car that was been an unloved for a
long time I don't think you can now I'm not talking about like the clapped out
ones with a lot of miles and now to be fair that motor can handle a lot but if
there's a lot of deferred maintenance there's some niggles that that car still
needs and if you know it's falling into the wrong hands you know and I'm
talking about the ones that maybe look like that they're like kind of modded
weird and you see them they got like oh it's got a hundred something thousand
like those are selling at maybe like 50 but the the decent ones that don't look
all like the wrong person got a hold of it like okay hey somebody loved that
thing yeah maybe there's some like very light mods but like tasteful mods on it
and the car has like let's call it for argument's sake between 50,000 and 80,000
miles those cars are selling at like $70,000 now or at least that's the
ask on them I should say I don't know if they're turning at that but that's the
ask on them and it's kind of like you know you and I we have friends by blue
chip ones for like 40 and it's kind of like dude and again this will this
conversation will happen when that car is going to be back up to where it used
to be because it's still significantly low below its MSRP but some day in our
lifetime that car will be probably be above its MSRP again which is insane
because for the longest time that used to be the value buy but it's slowly
becoming not the value buy and it's slowly becoming discovered as like man
something bang for buck man I mean again everyone under the Sun that knew
anything that has sounding board has been saying that us included for years and
the price is reflecting that like it 45 to 50 used to buy you I would say like a
collector great car but like something at 30,000 miles on that had good
maintenance and somebody loved it took care of it that was that was a real
real number 50 grand 55 grand for a car like that all day long I'm not saying
like a super special color they didn't make a lot of them in super special
colors but you know you could you know you have to pay maybe a little bit more
of a premium for a speed yellow one with that mile but now dude like a speed
yellow cab with miles manual $85,000 because of it just because it's speed
yellow and it's like dude what that's the normal portion things start now yes
it's happening to those cars and people that have them blue chip ones they know
that it's happening so now they're kind of coming out of the the woodwork and
saying hey people are starting to get it down you know it's it's the classic I
got a lapses blue one with like 40,000 miles on it I want a hundred for it and
then it just starts like it just continues it starts when somebody pays it
and then all of a sudden some of the yeah you even saw the not that it's a
turbo but I just remind me of the 97.23 RS the very black on red red script
we're got bid to yeah 512,000 dollars yeah I saw that like so that's strong
number exactly that's just another thing it's but even with that number right
like can't believe somebody didn't take it right at that I mean it didn't have
no miles on it had crazy low miles on it though didn't it yeah it was five or six
yeah which I don't maybe a lot for that I don't know thousand right yeah yeah I
mean they're not delivery miles somebody drove it yeah so it's not like it
wasn't 500 miles no we have seen those sell before and they bring for big
numbers but you know it's all relative but at the same time still a 996 turbo
is the cheapest turbo car right right now yeah I gotta be I can't think of
another one I mean yeah 991s are in the hundreds I mean maybe 93s are way we're
talking manuals right yeah okay yeah hands down like because there's like 997
tips and also 996 tips that are going for less but those don't count and I'm
not trying to scoff at it but if you're trying to buy a car it has some
staying power and you you legitimately don't go for that bargain buy like
that's not gonna that's not gonna net you what you think you're gonna get and
it's also not gonna be the same kind of driving experience like that you you
hope for man I'm not saying they're bad I'm saying like there are people that buy
I'm just like actually kind of be like it's weird to say this but retro I guess
a 996 tip like to daily I could see you know like hey I want to I sit in
traffic but I want you know I want a cool car to you know sit in traffic with
okay that's purposeful that makes sense or you'll be like some people and just
drive a manual but it can't still be like yeah but you can't be that guy it's
like I own a Porsche and it's a 996 tip yeah and it's my only one and then you're
that guy it's also like at cars and coffee with like talking about how great
it is it's like damn but that manual is one of the softest the easiest manuals
to get along with you for this for that demo it is but to each their own I mean
I I think I'm already I'm approaching where that car goes up another 10 or
15% over the next 12 to 15 16 months for what I want like obviously manual like I
kind of would like to get like a speed yellow or something like that I'm gonna
be priced out of that car in the in the sense of like not that I can't afford it
I'm unwilling to pay that price for it like I'm like I'm not gonna pay $90,000
for a 996 turbo that has 50 or 60,000 miles on it just because it's speed
yellow I won't do it I'll be like all right I'm gonna allocate that money for
somewhere else like I'm just gonna go big then I'm like all right cool I'm gonna
take 90 and go put it down on a 993 turbo or something like that you know and
just nope like and I know that's weird man math but for me I'm just like dude
don't know I rather just go much as where you see your value yeah well for me
like I that's not the end all turbo that's like for me a 996 turbo would be
like a nice to have like a cool thing if it was if you got in at the right
number like when you it when they start getting pricey I'm not that in love with
them for that for that price I'd rather pay up for like a GT2 or something
that has a little bit more sustaining power or you know or something I don't
I'd rather go spend 140 on a 997 manual turbo than 90 on a 996 turbo I know
that sounds strange but like I guess that's just how my brain works see the
997's better it's fine I always have but that doesn't mean 996 is not a good car
I'm just saying like they're they're quickly approaching the not value it's
not value anymore well yeah I mean well it's it's also anchor pricing from when
you've seen them rise from what they bet yeah the value is definitely there
because the market said well yeah but like I know what you're saying for me but
you're my personally I'm not saying I'm not speaking for the market I'm speaking
for myself I don't see the value in that because I've owned one and they are
great but it's also it won't be a primary car for me it would be a fun car but at
that number I'm like that doesn't know that doesn't make sense like because if
you've owned several Porsches which you and I both have fortunately you're
always you're always concerned about your entry point meaning like did I enter at
a wrong number did I enter at least I do like no matter what it is like I want to
make sure I get in for what I want I don't buy specifically for number if I
love that car and that was my dream car I would buy it obviously and be like yep
I had a 996 on my wall like I had to have that car that there are people like
that that makes sense I get that and it and for your dream car it's actually not
that expensive for a dream car if you want to think about it but that is not my
dream car so yeah it puts me in a yeah it's cool I like to have it I like
turbo noises and but that's not that's not an $80,000 like oh that's cool or
$75,000 like I rather you allocate that money just differently I guess it's the
best way I'm trying to get at should I rather go back turn back the clock I
rather go buy a 964 cab manual for for 60 grand yeah and and have another air
cool I know that sounds weird but I don't need I figured you're just gonna get
the 93 turbo just so you have like if you get a torque you're that one
ruckus you hear I mean I like the way they look I mean ultimately if money no
object I buy a 964 turbo that's what I really want like in like Wimbledon green
game over right like that's the one on speed lines game over as far as modern
turbos go I second in line I'd rather have a 930 turbo than a 996 so and then
I mean 996 on that list for me on a price point it's at the bottom of that
list like I mean for desire yeah I mean I still rather have a 997 turbo like I
said and all those and not that it's a bad car it's a great car it's a
wonderful car it used to be a wonderful car and tons of bang for your buck and
such a great buy it's no longer that I mean it's not shitty but it's not great
it's probably like somewhere right in the goalie locks yeah it's right it's
right it's right above like a good deal like whatever you would call a good
deal right you know like oh that's a great deal like it's above a great deal
it's not a great deal anymore the is a 997 you feel holding that value or you
just what do you what about the 997 do you like besides the looks I like the
difference yeah I like the little bit more interior refinement of it too for
and for me purpose-wise it would be a better car for me because I'm not gonna
rally that car full full leather I would probably put some like really nice
HREs on it obviously a tune and exhaust and it would be my my my fun car like
where I don't go rip mountain roads but more straight roads I go cruise it maybe
go meet up with some friends grab some food you know on a weekend where I'm
like hey I'm not I'm not feeling get my damn ears blown out and driving the GT
three or I don't feel like driving a 993 like that's that car fits a purpose for
me because aesthetically obviously you got to love the car I mean I don't love
996 I like them but I don't love them so like that car even if that scenario like
let's just say that was the car like I don't think I'd be happy about that like
I'd be like yeah I'm gonna go cruise this and yeah 90 thousand dollar 996 he's
that's I just you're already begrudging and you don't even know it yeah or even
if it's more than that if it's it if it was sick I wouldn't be happy with it I
just know that I wouldn't purchase that car that number like it just wouldn't
make sense for me because I rather just chase something that I believe not
necessarily it is but I believe is a better car for me not necessarily as a
holistically meaning like oh we're on the map and you're like that car sucks
this one's actually better than it like I just meant for me yeah because I know
there's a lot of people that are like dude you don't know shit about 996 is
great and like I know they're great I owned one I just you got to be in love
with the car obviously from the looks there a color on the 97 you like speed
yellow oh green metallic that one in Oak Green that's yeah and they also make
cocoa interior for that or no yeah that'd be sick I mean I would anything
anything really because even like because even those the tan on that wasn't
like really tan it was almost had like more orange in that tan it wasn't just
flat tan but I mean I do black but I think cocoa would look good in there I
mean I don't know those are all like pipe trains we'll see I mean I'll probably
go air-cooled turbo I'll probably pay up for it and this go air-cooled because if
I'm cruising it and I really just want turbo noises and I want to feel those
boosts like again yeah you just pop in there if it's a good day if it's not a
weird as it sounds like that third car is even like I said like if I got that
nine six four cab it would be same situation it'd be a cruiser like I'm
not gonna take that car and go all right you know I need to get polyurethane
bushings I need to get this because you know you never know I might rally this
car's like no dude I'm never gonna rally that car will I put suspension on it
yeah just because I want it to run better yeah but I'm not gonna go like all
right hey we need to stiffen everything up I'm gonna put cup twos on this we need
to get bigger brakes like that's not happening with those cars like some
aesthetics some some you know tweaking here and there and then that's the
chill car anyways I don't know how we ended up there but
market rising yeah Porsche pulls a patent on a W18 with three turbos motor so
they put a patent on that the reason I bring that up is is this the beginning
of their new halo car or is this something that you know they just pulled
a patent for just to do it Porsche is known in all other auto manufacturers for
doing stuff like this and never doing anything with it sometimes it could be
just to prevent somebody else from doing it however this is very specific so it
almost seems like this may go into something that they have cooking yeah
I mean what doesn't it doesn't fit in an F1 car so that's not happening that
mission is not mission acts of what the what's the their latest thing that they're
not going to launch yeah I know what you're saying that car not really gonna
do anything so the room for I mean and the W didn't bolt swing another W12 right
W12 that's why W18 and we've talked about how bad Porsche needs to or their
do they are there they're overdue for a just doesn't see like a motor Porsche
reproduce like what would you put that in that would make sense whatever they
decide to do it I mean it's obviously gonna be some mid-engine halo car I
mean it's a three turbo because the way it's set up it's it's a three bank
system because of W18 so each bank is gonna have its own turbo it's probably
gonna be I would I wouldn't say an answer because they've never had to do
that they never had to like answer like other manufacturers like it's not that
even though some people may think they need to like oh well they haven't done
anything in a while like they just do with whatever they want they don't like
oh Lambo's got this and Ferrari's got that that Porsche's never operated that
way but they clearly feel like they were I mean it's been a while since the 918
spider has been out like there's really been there like their main thing since
then I mean it's been quite a while who knows it could be a future rendition
version of like what a 917 will look like you know maybe it'll have like some
like modern architecture like that but it's gonna be boosted you know like and
it's gonna be a Bugatti killer who knows or or maybe they actually do a
production line of the 963 and that first one was just kind of like hey we
gotta did this but we didn't and then here's something here's a motor that we
think it's gonna be a street motor I don't see how that motor would fit in
that cuz that that car so tiny like meaning like it's it's tub yeah like
that that motor couldn't fit in there like I looked at the blueprint of this
thing like it's massive in its own way but it's not that massive because it's a
w18 so like that's that save some of the like I guess blueprint of it so it
doesn't take up too much real estate in the engine bay but it's not gonna fit
they might be still might be a good replacement for the halo car they were
trying to launch with what could stop them from making a second rendition of
a Carrera GT why can't that be a Carrera GT it should be why can't they they
could do that they do whatever the hell they want they don't have they can it
could be again it could be a Bugatti killer who knows like maybe they're
gonna chase a serious number maybe they're gonna go out there and be like
hey this car's gonna be 300 miles an hour that's why we did this who knows I
don't know but it's the beginning of something insane something different
yeah maybe that's where all the money's going yeah could be right this R&D
apartment is getting really expensive but it I bring that up because that's
exciting that's the first other than like renditions like which cost nothing
like this is something like it's real like if they actually do this who knows
but they might not next thing I talked about Porsche selling Manti so they
own shares in Manti racing if you didn't know this they are shopping their
shares what that means is obviously somebody would buy them and whatever
those shares are like Porsche would basically sign those over to whoever
bought them and then they would own portions of Manti what that would do
for Manti what I read from was the positive side of it would it would open
Manti up in the sense of more money meaning like whoever buys them like
they could they could siphon more money out of them like if it was another
manufacturer or whatever to like help boost Manti itself as a company to
infuse money to get them to do stuff and maybe even outside of Porsche because
if you you know this but me a lot of our listeners don't they don't just do
Porsche like they that's not where they're just a race like they're known
for their Porsche stuff and they they do like Porsche stuff and they went a lot
of Porsche stuff but they do Audi's like they did a bunch of different setups
and stuff yeah so they do stuff I think it's unique I don't know if the fact
that Porsche is just shopping it I just think what I personally think is they
probably want to just see what the value is so they can go back to the board to
say like alright here's all of our potential cash grabs like basically
list them all right hey we're killing the the what's it call it program the
WEC program that plus 300 million or whatever you want to call it 500 million
dollars oh if we sold Manti 100 million like I think that there's gonna go to
the board with all of these things it's like okay this is what makes this is
the money to leave yeah this is the group of money that we could go get like
that's what I think is happening here I think they're trying to get value
assessment on the things that they do currently owned personally whether or
not they sell we'll see I don't see them selling but anything's possible they
also I don't think they've been around long enough as Manti Porsche together
where they've made a much money out of it either they've designed a few kits but
it hasn't really been that many kids yeah but I think Manti's always been
boutique that way I don't think Manti's like worried about our kits need to be
on every single car because I actually think that they like which is a kind of
like our rally they like being small like look if you know you know type of
shit like kind of like us like if you know our rally you know if you don't
whatever dude you'll figure it out someday and if you don't oh well I think
it also adds another layer whenever you buy some GT thing they make a product
board that all right we're gonna go and get this kit not just be the normal
everyday yeah whatever it is wonder if they did sell would Porsche still sell
their product at the dealership probably not right yeah good question
because then they wouldn't what they're still being incentive for them to do it
like what's that whole they might have pitched them when they did they bought
their shares to say hey we could sell your product at our dealer network well
if that goes away and they sell their they sell their shares why would
Porsche still offer that unless they rework that deal to say okay we get X
amount of dollars every time yeah every time yeah now that now the price of
everything goes up again and now they get a percentage yeah that could be
something does that make existing Manti cars if this deal goes let's just say
let's just say Ferrari buys them for whatever reason which won't happen but
probably more likely like Audi or something if Audi bottom yeah would that
make existing Manti kits more valuable like if that if that they stop
essentially I think so I was just saying that same thought he was like yeah
I'll stop making it would be just like everything else but I mean you as a
person can go to Manti on your own and they've done a lot better they used to
be like you has to ship on their car you used to have to do all this stuff and I
think well legally it wasn't they couldn't do it for safety yeah well back in
the day they wouldn't I think they could get parts right but like there were
certain parts they wouldn't ship right they wouldn't even show nothing now you
had to know somebody and do a roundabout ways for it to be done well that's kind
yeah like you could still get it like yeah this is my point like they would
basically made the exceptions for people where they're kind of like hey you know I
got a 991.2 RS I'm not shipping you my car but I need some anti stuff you know
like you have shows up somebody who goes there and they put a massive order in and
then like ship it to this address and then it happens magic I think they they
probably would go up in value some some I mean it's another one of those things
I got the main idea like yeah it's laying nose back in the day yeah I think what I
think what it would be is kind of like a roof thing like and I'm now I'm fast
forwarding like 10 20 years probably 20 years you know it's not going to be bend
but maybe if you have paperwork like oh I went to clear water portion this was
done on my car and I have the paperwork for it now it's validated right but like
or there's probably gonna be somewhere I just talked to you about the route that
hey I want to go in the side door and get stuff and get it on my car even though
I didn't go through the dealership well then there's gonna probably be cars like
that's like oh well he went and bought those parts that car is worth less you
know it's not a roof in the car it has roof parts but it's not a roof car like
that does it show it somewhere where it's like certified I'm sure it does and
like even if it's not certified like you're gonna have receipts at least so
like that's gonna be validated where it's like well you know because they're not
reinventing the car it's a kid but they you're gonna see it that it was
purchased from the dealership and that dealership probably invoice is gonna be
worth gold because of it as opposed to somebody it's like well I have an invoice
directly from Manti it's like yeah but it wasn't installed with the dealer like
it's not the same so it's basically like you buy in bolt-on parts I think there
there might be something to that but I mean how much is that gonna move the
needle we're talking about how many Manti cars that are probably like I don't
know I don't see too many I mean we have a couple in our area but I mean
otherwise it's not like champion that's all they make it's like if you want one
like if you want a 3rs or our GT3 it's not leaving here unless you get a
Manti on it and honestly I believe that they probably are strong arming people
that way where they're kind of like dude this is the way it is okay I think it
also helps them in another number kind of like how Mike was saying in the
podcast like the premier dealership I'm sure that there's a number factor if
they sell so many kids that's helpful that's also probably a brag factor for
them too to be like look here's the deal man like you know we sell the most of
these like that's it that's how this works you know so who knows all right
well I don't have anything else for him do you have anything else for him I guess
by man man I can't why you can well it's still a jib or it might I can't you know
in the box to be like a let go set never use right it's never put on a car like
don't use it just yeah just sell it with a car I've just been waiting for
basically Porsche to like you know do this deal and then I'll show you how
valuable all this shit is it's like a no mileage 992 never seen the rain anyways
alright see you guys later thank you so much for listening to this episode of
peak our talk connect with us on Instagram at peak our talk or online at
peak our talk.com
About this episode
P-Car Talk dives into Porsche's recent management shakeup and its projected $1.1 billion quarterly loss. Hosts Mike and Aaron discuss the implications of hiring a new CEO with a hybrid focus, the potential for Porsche's future hybrid models, and the impact of rising prices on existing models. They also explore Porsche's strategy in the Chinese market and the significance of their patent for a W18 engine with three turbos. The episode wraps up with thoughts on the value of Manti Racing and its future under potential new ownership.
Original notes
In this episode, we tackle some heavy news coming out of Stuttgart that's got the Porsche world talking. We break down Porsche's projected $1.1 billion quarterly loss—what led to this, the leadership shakeup with Michael Leithers taking over as CEO, and what a potential "sleepy era" could mean for production and the models we love. We discuss the controversial announcement of yet another US price increase and whether Porsche is pricing enthusiasts out of the market entirely, plus what this means for the used and classic car values. Then we dive into the mysterious W18 patent with three turbos—is this the hypercar we've all been waiting for, or just another patent filing that goes nowhere? We also cover Porsche shopping their stake in Manthey Racing and what that signals about their financial strategy moving forward. This is a critical moment for the brand, and we want to hear your thoughts on where Porsche goes from here and how it impacts all of us as enthusiasts.
Thank you for your support!
Kimchi Crew
Leslie, Chris, Ken, Aaron, Matthew, Sean and Nik
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