The Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 is a fancy car that looks like a regular sedan but has a very strong engine that makes it go fast. It was made between 2016 and 2024 and is known for being sporty and fun to drive.
The Jeep Cherokee is a type of SUV that people have been driving for many years. The 1977 version had a special system that helped all four wheels work together to drive better on rough roads.
The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a bigger and fancier SUV than the regular Cherokee. It can still drive well off-road but is more comfortable for everyday use.
The Kia Stinger is a fast and stylish car made between 2017 and 2023. It looks great, drives well, and is a good choice if you want a sporty car that doesn't cost too much.
The Kia Telluride is a big SUV that can fit seven people comfortably. It started being sold around 2022 and is popular because it is roomy and not too expensive.
The Lamborghini Revuelto is a very fast car that uses both a big powerful engine and electric motors to go super fast. It’s one of Lamborghini’s newest and most powerful cars.
Welcome back to the podcast. I don't know about you, but I'd like a Lotus for me. There's
a whole thing going on with Lotus for me. Lotus for me is a thing. Why? Why?
It's a thing.
How do you burn down a brand? It's news, but it's also, it's bad news, isn't it?
This is the Electra on screen. This is not the Lotus for me. This is just a representative
example because we don't know what the Lotus for me looks like, but what Lotus is doing
is making hybrid. They went all electric and claimed that the Amira is the last gas
powered sports car we're ever going to build. How long before they renege on that? How long
before they backpedal and come off of that one and say, all right, the next Amira generation
or whatever they call it next, I think they need a word and they'll call it that.
The Lotus for me is the first LTS certified ex hybrid hyper SUV launching in China late
March, 2026 with global rollout to follow. It has a two liter turbo gas engine with two electric
motors and a 70 kilowatt battery on a 900 volt platform, adding up to about 939 horsepower.
LTS means what you might ask that is Lotus tuned specification and engineering standard
that Lotus has enacted ensuring consistent driver centric dynamics. So what comes all
their products, what we've done is we're essentially making a large, super heavy,
super powerful SUV with the badge on the back. This is handling by Lotus. We've gone back to that.
It's handling by Lotus. Anything about this was either nothing about this is Lotus.
Actually Lotus. Yeah, yeah, this the Lotus for me is their ability to do the
electric without it being all electric because electric kind of sounds like electric. You see
what they did there? Ooh, that's exciting. Yes. Yes, I'm making fun of Lotus because they deserve
it here. This is some sort of hybridized SUV and they're, and they're selling that again
as look at how powerful this is more powerful than the Electra will be and therefore is cooler.
That was the door for, okay, from all electric. Now they're going hybrid. So, so that has opened
up the world for doing whatever I want to Lotus product that feels like a Lotus product.
This is a rebadging exercise and I understand. I understand. I get it. I get it. Their parent
company is the Chinese company, Geely. They make all the electrics. I see the connected tissue.
But this may as well just have a handling by Lotus badge on the back,
which through the 80s and 90s, a lot of cars that shouldn't have handled well
did because they were some manufacturer's car with handling by Lotus on the back. Yes.
But that was a badge of pride. Yes, it was. The cars were lightweight and it actually made sense.
I mean, Porsche has offered engineering services. Of course. Many companies offer engineering services
for years and the Lotus badge was the highest badge of all Lotus tune handling. Oh, well,
then this car is worthy of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Lotus for me may be the thing that
really wraps this up as where have we gone? And I say that because I got lost in translation.
I love my Amira. It seems to be selling okay, even though if I spec it right now, it's $20,000
more expensive for my same car than the way I bought mine in Christ. It is a great car.
Our friend Jonathan over at RSR just got his he has so much exposure with all of the high end
Porsches at work. He wanted something that wasn't that he just kept coming back to,
but it's so different than Porsche, which is cool. It should be cool. Here's what I hope happens.
I hope whatever these stumbles are that Lotus continues with new product. And if they want
to offer a big monster SUV, Porsches done at BMWs done at whatever, then at least exactly,
at least keep offering new and interesting sports cars that play to the core of the brand.
Get a Lotus for me. I can't believe I'm telling you something got lost your chance in translation.
Something there was a miss and it came out as Lotus for me and everybody's sort of gone. Yeah,
what now? Yeah. Why would I buy that? It's because it's a Lotus for me, Paul. This is from the same
market that has a car named Build Your Dreams. Yes. So in that regard, it feels like it makes
some sense. Yes. It's just over here. We're going. It doesn't really breathe. It doesn't land. Yeah.
This is quite over here. It's like Ferrari going Ferrari for no one. Well, it's which is true.
Calling their car the Ferrari Ferrari. The Ferrari. Yeah, it is. Did everybody catch on that? And we
all just kind of glazed over and went, oh, the La Ferrari. The and no cares. So maybe it maybe
might work. Maybe it would resonate and it's different than every other car company in North
America. When did naming die? Was La Ferrari way out front with just AI naming? Like what should we
call the monster Ferrari and AI goes, well, how about the Ferrari and the four door Maserati?
Yes, the Quadra Porte. I mean, that didn't take AI. That just took Italians in need of lunch break.
They were leaders in that field. They were before AI was naming cars. They said,
call it the four door. I'm going to lunch. Yeah. You also need to know that Lotus has hired pianist
Long Long, what an incredibly gifted, talented individual. And he has implemented music programs
for kids around the world and really giving back, really investing in the music community.
So incredible. But he is named as the Lotus friend of the brand. So here he is being a friend of the
brand. I don't quite understand the connection except that it is about pursuing the things that
you want and having the freedom of expression. And that's the through line. The Lotus is
promoting. You're establishing a very high brow thing. Yeah, classical music. Yes. High
brow at the top. That is a classy association. Very different association. I'm not saying
necessarily good, bad, but very different association from saying, we have a rapper. And
also I wonder if he becomes a consultant because Louis needs this on the quality of their stereos.
Like, can they play him music back in the car and him critique? I suppose so. I would hope so.
And I say that because one thing about my mirror that is not good is the stereo is bad. I don't
care how many brands they put on it for. Hey, that's a cool brand. It's not good. They're not in
the business of making cool stereo. So maybe, but it's the expertise in your field. I see the
through line. Lotus has the expertise in their field for the handling. That's it's never been
power. It's never been style. It's always been handling. True. Yeah. And so the through line of
excellence here, I can see it and I hope they pursue it. But I hope that means they continue
to make gas powered cars that are light or even if it's hybrid, it's still got to be light, lightness.
That that is heavy. Was there a through line? That was everything everybody knew about the
brand. But anyway, it's on the piano keys or something. Clearly, lighter on the piano keys
than the electric is on the road. Even at his most aggressive, that's how that works. Your
Lotus for me. Yeah. When you're driving it, do you think Lotus for him? Is that what you think
Lotus? This is my Lotus. I don't know. Let's hope so. One other bit of news here that is Hyundai
has announced the Ioniq 6, which I just find questionable to look at. I need to see one up
close. We haven't driven one yet. But the Ioniq 6 non-N is ending in the US. But the N is going
to keep being sold in the US. It's very interesting. They're going to sell the performance version
only in our market. Very curious what that means for just what's the take rate? How many people
want that car? I'm actually really intrigued to drive it because we do like the Ioniq 5N.
So here is the more sedan version. I generally like sedans better than SUVs anyway. The back end
of this, I think is questionable. But hey, let's see it in person. It's different. It's so different
from every other product in Hyundai's design language across the whole portfolio. So I think
that's why it's jarring maybe a little bit. But I do want to drive the N. At least the N is staying
in our market. But the standard Ioniq 6 is dead. So that's very interesting.
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Going to get through this everyone. We are still doing our peak car list which we do respond to
on thank you so much for actually liking this. All of our numbers are up everywhere which is
really really great. We thank you to those of you that are finding the podcast share with others
please review it. We appreciate all of that very very much. I thought that the amount of research
required for car debates went up because the amount of research or brands that this has taken
it's and I'm getting educated. Truly I'm getting educated by the process. Yeah it's forcing both
you and I to make decisions but in a cool way it's forcing you all listening and watching to
make decisions. Do you agree with this? Do you not agree with this? And either way is fine. I just
I love that it gets us all thinking about all of these brands in our lives and the different
approaches that I love your dealership approach or I guess the year. The model year like you
walk into the dealership and this is on this model year leads into cars. I'm still fascinated by
the peak cars that come out and what was going on in in that company's history in their in their
time. I've got some cars for I through L so we still didn't get too far in the alphabet.
We still have 10, 9 brands at least. No it's going to be a while yet yeah but a couple more
episodes. I was forced to make decisions and I'm still having to come to terms with them.
Really what I think about that brand starting with Infinity and it would be easy to go all the
way back to the beginning and say door handles and the leaf floating in the creek down the stream
and there is no car shown or anything like that. But to me the peak of Infinity we've got this cool
engine. What other car can we stuff that engine into? So here we are at the 2016 to 2024 Infinity
Q50 Red Sport 400. Originally it's my understanding this was the Au Rouge concept which is the part
of Spa Francochamps the track where the algae that runs in the river underneath the track turns red
and therefore Au Rouge meaning that part of the track up the hill into radial is a very technical
high speed interesting and very fun part of the track. Very. And this thinking was why don't we
just stuff the GTR engine into a sedan? They should have. It should have been. It ended up as the 400.
The name implies 400 horsepower so it's got 400 horsepower about that in torque and this was
their hot performance sedan but it seemed like everything just became a luxury version of a
Nissan product after that. They were kind of doing it before and they got lost in the woods with the
M50 and their M and then they chose the letter Q and everybody scratched their heads and then
this came along and we liked this car. Yeah it was good. It's very good. The engine that we beg
for it to be in something else in Nevada was the engine in the Z car. It's a very good engine.
It was good in this car. The problem was it was a good engine and a chassis that well let me
rephrase in an interior that was getting very old. Yes that's the problem but still as far as
infinity the brand what do you think of when infinity pops to mind? Of all the car just the
sea of endless SUVs and cars. Sure. This one is such a standout to me that I think this is peak
infinity and to me it represents thinking not necessarily the car itself. It represents the
kind of thinking that was going on at infinity. They were in Formula 1. Yep I hear you. The things
were going great. The black series things were going great. We were doing so well. Here we are
with two expensive Pathfinders but it's Nissan. Nissan's been through the ringer. We have to cut
costs. I'm going to go my year to walk into the dealer at infinity and make it work. Good.
It's 2004. Okay and here's why I'm arguing that. This is interesting because you just brought up this
cue. The red sport. The Q50. Yeah. 2014 is the pivotal year when Nissan got a new CEO
and they dropped their nomenclature and they adopted Q and everything became Q and models that were
whatever else last year now had a Q on the front. GM. Exactly. I think 2014 is the beginning of the
slide in infinity because they changed nomenclature that was just starting to resonate. Think about
this. 2014 they embrace Q. 2004 I am claiming is their best year. 10 years prior. Interesting.
And by 10 years after my peak year of 2004 those G models were kind of burned into our heads. We
understood what it meant. We got the nomenclature and now it's all changed. But think about 2004
and infinity. You have and I'm showing on screen right now the G35 coupe. This is the 2 plus 2
version of the Z car. The Z. The 350Z in I would say arguably better styling and I am a sucker.
I will admit it right now. When I shop for wheels for any car I am looking for a split five spoke
and this infinity split five spoke I think is one of my all time favorite stock wheels to come on
anything. I don't know why I picked this car. I do love that. I've seen those wheels because of course
it's the same hub on 350Z and they look phenomenal. It's a great looking wheel on anything I've seen
along. But this was the G35 coupe and I actually at the time liked it a little better than the Z car.
Engine sounded good. Engine was strong. Also at infinity at this point you also had the G35
sedan which sold a lot. These were being put up against BMWs and doing well for a brand that was
cheaper and also had a really short history. Already by this point Lexus was being identified
as a luxury brand and Infinity was being identified as an enthusiast brand. You weren't putting the
Lexus product up against BMWs and expecting it to win. You're putting it up against Mercedes.
The infinities are getting put up against BMW. So you have the G35 sedan and the G35
coupe. They also were selling the FX and while I'm not a huge everything should have an SUV brand
this at least stood out and was available in 45 form which was a V8. A rear wheel drive
biased chassis V8 four door SUV was available in 2004. It was a tall car because it had such
a long nose. It had a very long nose. It was very different proportions than any other SUV.
It didn't look like a sports car. Yes it didn't look like a Lexus egg. It had a long front end
on it that could put a V8 under the hood which was amazing. They also sold this car which I think
is underappreciated the M. The M45 which had the same V8 as the FX but I think this M45 of this
era looks like somebody tried to modernize the classic 90s American sedan and I think it got
overlooked and underappreciated. It was. Absolutely. This is 2004 and Infinity. This M sedan,
the G35 sedan, the FX SUV with a V8 rear wheel drive and the Infinity G35 coupe.
04 was the peak. This was the place where Infinity could go one of two places in the decade to follow.
They could be right up there with BMW or they could be an and in 2014
Q and we begin the slide. It's interesting also because just the naming convention itself
denotes different class of vehicles. Yes. It's here we're using X and to be fair,
Genesis is doing the same thing. We've got G and GV so you've got the car force. Is it a G? Is
there a V in the name? The V means SUV but here GM we've got F and FX that instantly denoted in
customers minds. I think that's a class of vehicle and then the number indicates either
hopefully displacement but we kind of left that. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Or performance.
It kind of denoted. Oh, that's the upper end. That's the V8. That's the displacement. I think
that was a problem. I mean, you're absolutely right. I like this lineup from Infinity then.
So much promise and it was all about performance. Whether it's the Q50, the red sport or any of
these it was we're thinking performance more than we are luxury. It seemed like it. Yes.
All right. Moving on to Jaguar. Jag. There's going to be the foregone conclusions
with some of these. Yeah. And that's fine. I want to bring up here the XKSS which was the road
version of the Jaguar D type the race car from the same era best known for an association
with Steven Queen. Yeah. This is a photo from DK Engineering in the UK. They were or are currently
selling one of these. It's a continuation car that happened in 2016 and 2017. But from 1957,
very few of these were built. I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 2025 XKSS.
I think you're right. Versions of these. Pretty sure it was less than 100.
Not including a continuation cars here which I still take continuation cars. Yes. Absolutely. I
Yes. It's oozes style and class. Somehow it's the E-Type's crazier older brother.
Everything is a little more voluptuous than the E-Type and also a little more aggressive.
Racing in mine. Those define the brands. Yeah. And here is the D-Type that I came across from the
2018 Quayle show. A photo of mine and I just can't get over this car. It's just so sculptural and
beautiful. And really, that comes from the manufacturing method. The English wheel to coax
a shape out of metal without tearing it. Yeah. It thins out the metal and you're coaxing that
beautiful shape. You know, how far can we go before it breaks? Cinders don't match, but it's fine.
It's with it all by hand. Symmetry is great. It cares. It's worked for. But of course, the series
one and I'm showing here actually a racing version. Yeah. This particular car has the
provenance of being the most raced E-Type in history and also being sold by DK Engineering here.
And it's the perfect shade of green. It's the race version with you can see the pipes there,
but it's just so fun to look at. Yeah. But also it's a great car to drive just because of the
engine, the placement, the chassis, such a superb car. So where did style from Jaguar go? There's a
lot of other cool cars from Jaguar that influenced me later in my growing up years, but these two
are my standouts to me. This is still peak Jaguar and I don't think anything from Jaguar in the
future will overcome these two cars. Well, I mean, you and I are going to be in a very similar era
here and nobody's going to be surprised, but I will jump in here for Jaguar. I actually agree
with you on those that you've shown because they are awesome. But of course, in 1968, they were
selling the E-Type. Series 2, the 1.5 was like 67, some of the 68s, but by 68, there was a 1,
and then there was a 1.5, which is like 67-ish. That's right. That was a short lift. Because
they're doing tweaks as they go, much like Lotus does. By 68, you were getting into the Series 2.
You can tell the difference because the Series 2 has fully open headlights. The Series 1 has closed
headlights. That's one of the main ways to tell. So this was being sold and it was being sold in
flavors. It was being sold in convertible. It was being sold in hardtop, which I actually
kind of like more than convertible, just as a shape. It was also being sold in a 2 plus 2,
which I am not going to show you a photo of because it looks like a guppy swimming backwards.
It's not attractive. It's not good. It actually somehow gets an even higher roof and like this
big bubble back and it doesn't quite work on the car. The people back there. Yes, for sure. But
the actual coupe that I'm showing here, I think, is a fantastic looking car. But 68 was the first
year of the XJ that became the car that, if you think to the average person that grew up
any time last century, I know I'm dating myself. But if you were born before the year 2000,
if you go to anybody of that type and you ask them, what does a Jaguar sedan look like? It's this.
True. This was around for so long. 1968, you can buy an XK new that looks like this and you can buy
an E type new. And I cannot think of any bigger poster child cars for Jaguar that were just seared
into people's minds. You could see it at a glance with no badges and you know it's a Jag.
Know it's a Jag. So 1968, both those cars were available as your local Jaguar showroom. And I
believe, and I could be wrong here, but I believe the last couple XK SSes were leaving as well.
They were like 67-ish when they were selling the XK SS. So those are like just leaving as well,
even though I'm going with 68 for the E type because that's the start of this XK.
Seared into my memory for this car. And all subsequent versions of it.
Yes. In spite of the fact that this came in six cylinder and even eights and 12s, they
baited in every engine configuration. They had long wheelbase, short wheelbase. These were driven by
little kings and queens. Yes. And even though the styling did change, this picture I'm showing
the 1968 with the four headlights and everything, I think we all think they look like this.
Even as they change them and the lights change, we just, this is the way we picture it, I think.
So you and I drove that pink one years back. Oh, it's kind of like cars. So I had to go there.
Moving on to Jeep and I suppose we could ask the question here,
which Wrangler have all the Wranglers and all the CJ's, which one's the best?
Which is the peak, the peak Jeep. And I think it's the most current one. Okay. I think it's
the four door Rubicon 392 because finally it got a V8 for years. Everybody was wondering,
does a V8 fit? I wonder V8 fits and many, many conversions done. Yeah, the V8 fits.
And then Stalantis realized the V8 fits and shoved it in a Jeep.
Somebody mentioned it to them while they're at it. Yeah. This truck laughs at everything. You
and I drove this, it's on our test drive channel. It was astounding because we just tried to,
you know, kind of stump the truck, you know, stump the truck and it laughs at everything.
The noise is there, the power on the street. If you don't take this off road, you've lost the
plot. You have. Yeah. Completely. Well, because of the engine, it becomes funny on the street versus
just a chore on the street. It's, you're right. The engine makes it theater on the street now.
But then theater going up the rocks because you think, I wonder if my Jeep can do that? Yes,
is the answer. All of it. Yeah. If you want to point it at a direction on the horizon,
yes, is the answer. Let's go do that. It's so unbelievably capable, fast, powerful,
and expensive. These are a hundred thousand dollar Jeeps. Yeah, it's crazy. It is crazy.
392. All the Wranglers, I love the two doors. I love the four doors. I love all the Wranglers,
the CJs from the seventies and eighties. Cool Jeeps. Love them all. But when I think Jeep,
we've had this Jeep conversation. I think you do typically. Because I had a Cherokee
growing up and I shared it with my sisters. 1977 Cherokee, Quadra Track. You could watch the gas
even move. You could watch it just. It was so thirsty. AMC at the time. There you go. Oh yeah.
So Jeep Cherokee for sure. But you know, when you think Jeep, heat Jeep, it's always a Wrangler.
Sort of at this point. Which Wrangler do you think is the best? Which one do you have? That's
the best, right? Good. You and I are going to overlap a little bit here, but I'm actually going
to show a lineup and talk you through the lineup. I love it. A year is 2022. Okay. And not everything
that Jeep selling is good, but I have a picture of all of the above and I want to talk you through
it here real quick. This is a broad lineup for Jeep in 2022 because you have the Cherokee,
the Compass, the Renegade, the Grand Cherokee, the Gladiator, the Wrangler and the Wagoneer.
And what I think is weird is the fact that the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are different
sized vehicles. That feels weird to me. It feels like it should be like the standard Yukon or the
Yukon XL, but it's not. They're different vehicles. But they had to do something different than
Jamie Ford. Yeah. So that was very interesting. But the interesting thing about this era is the
fact that the Renegade, you know what? It's based on, it was the Fiat 500X, right? As well.
The Renegade is solid. I don't like it. I don't gravitate toward it, but for its market segment,
it's interesting. I suppose so. It's not the first choice for trail-rated, go-off,
no, of course not. But for that market segment, the little city four-door runabout that, honestly,
I can't even say this, but the Renegade gets closest to taking the mantle of the Honda Element
as far as styling and just the feel of it. If they had gone down that road, they would have had a hit.
If they just copied... I think it's the closest to the Honda Element continuation car. So the
Renegade I actually think is decent. And also here's the other thing. It's in a market segment
with a nine-speed transmission. Everybody else has got CVTs. The Cherokee at this point came in
normal gas engine, 4xE, and also came in long wheelbanks, like long, extended Cherokee. Not
long wheelbanks, but like they made a longer version, which was ugly, but they made one.
There may have been. The Wagoneer was a six-figure, still is a six-figure, suburban fighter from
Jeep. What are we doing? And Jeep doesn't know. And while I don't know that it was a success,
I'm applauding the boldness of going that far into luxury with Jeep. And then to your point,
you have the Gladiator, if you want your Jeep, your Wrangler in pickup, or the Wrangler, and
they're both available with 392s. Yeah, yeah. 2022, the 392s. Look, and we drove all of the versions
of this current Wrangler, and we've driven all the engines. And we did it a while ago. We actually
had the four-cylinder turbo Rubicon with the Ford Bronco when we first drove the two together. And
the reality is, any kind of rock-crawling you need to do, you can do it with a four-cylinder.
Even with the base engine. You can do it with the four-cylinder turbo. You can do it with the six.
You can do it with the big V8. You can do it with all of them. We've done it with all of them.
But the 392 makes it laughable enough on the street that you tolerate the things that are not good
about it on the street, and then it will still do all the off-road stuff. It's entertaining on-road
finally, and then brilliant off-road. It's sort of like, well, this is what every... you can't do
what my Jeep can do. And I'm confused. And if you want to do the E thing, the four-by-Ease are
available, those were super cheap to buy because there were incentives and that kind of stuff.
That's some problems too. 392 would be the way to go that I think that did make Jeep. I see your
lineup here that Cherokee, when that came out, always seemed to be just a me-too size. A me-too
product. Agreed. Yes, it gives them... it fleshes out the product lineup, which is what product
planners want to do. They want to, you know, chop it all up and offer you something. In every segment,
I don't think that works for every car company. And the Cherokee was... The Compass. Not great.
And the Cherokee are also right. And I'll take any Mazda CX anything. Yes. The Grand Cherokee is when
it's harder to get worthwhile, both. But I do think the Renegade holds its own as in that
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Kia hasn't been around in the collective consciousness. It's gonna be recent for
for too many years, too many decades. There's no 1960 Kia product to talk about. There's no dealer
from then. Yeah. When I think of Kia, I think peak Kia. It was the thinking. It was the Stinger.
When the Stinger came along from 2017 to 2023, the styling was different. It finally made sense.
Peter Schreyer from Audi had just joined Kia in the project. No dose of really great styling
into a segment that had very few competitors. Yeah. Yeah. And it had a lot of power and it handled
great and it was great to drive and reliable, spacious, hatch, gorgeous for a low price.
Almost one of one on the market. There was Genesis G70, the Alpha, you know, but we've
recommended this car so many times. You're probably sick. This is so good. I can't afford the Mercedes
BMW. I don't want to deal with it. The warranty, the engine, lots of power, speed, cool name. Yeah.
And it disappeared. It's gone. Yeah. But for Stinger, when I think peak Kia, it is 2017 to 2023.
Stinger, there's really no other standouts for me. And it still is a gorgeous car even now.
As is my way. I'm going to give you a year. Do it. And I also have the Stinger on the year that
we're talking about. And that is also 2022. This is peak Kia because the Stinger exists
into the Stinger run. But here's what else exists at Kia in 2022. The Telluride has just been
introduced and reshapes that market segment of the Unibody 7 Seater. That we were in this
camp as well. We were like, this Kia did this. Telluride remade that market segment. Actually
showing the early model here because they didn't change their logo to what everybody somehow
thinks is K-N. I like their new logo, but that's where it got introduced. It's not K-N. It isn't.
But so this is the original grille and the original Kia logo. So there's that. So the Kia Telluride,
the Kia Stinger, they also had the K5, which was the first time that Kia had a really competitive
Camry competition. A car in that segment that you probably would still pick the Camry or the
Accord, but you should take a serious look at the K5. It was fast. It was good looking. This
this squiggle side light got a lot of people's very unique. It looks like it's rear wheel drive
and isn't, which is always a success if you can pull that off. And they were selling it alongside
the Stinger. They also were selling the EV6, which, look, I'm not a huge EV fan and I don't want
another electric five seater, but in that world, this is good. They did it well. Yeah, this is now
because and platform sharing here. Yes, exactly. Genesis. Yes, for sure. So I mean, we kind of
liked this and all of its siblings, it was a solid execution of and these are cheap now.
These used, you can get them for a song. There's a lot of car in the EV6. They look great. I think
it's one of the better looking electrics across the board. Yeah. And the Carnival. You just have
to do my snaps. But before this, Kia's minivans were like the Oh, you couldn't afford a good one,
huh? Couldn't afford an Odyssey or seriously, you couldn't afford all the all the good minivans
everybody else buys. So you bought the Kia, the Carnival. I have to do it. I did. I didn't sign
anything. Anyway, the Carnival, I can do it with that snap. Nothing in the country. Exactly right.
It really is a very solid minivan. And they sent us when they first sent it to us, they sent us
in both configurations, like the family hauling configuration and the luxury hauling configuration.
It was the two different scenes that was really cool. So while I'm not a minivan buyer,
they became competitive with the Carnival. And this is all 2022. Carnival, EV6, K5, Stinger,
and also the Telluride. That was a huge year for Kia. Telluride is also a big Kia here. When this
came out. Yes, absolutely. There are waiting lists. Yes. You couldn't get one, a Kia. And now
we're all past the it's blank for a Kia. Yeah, everybody takes it very seriously now. I think
this lineup and especially the Stinger changed all of that. We move now to Lamborghini. Sure,
I like it. Not a huge fan. And I'm going to be maybe a touch controversial. Okay, all right,
with my Lamborghini choices here, because we're going to start out with the two most recognizable
and we're going to get those out of the way, starting with the late 60s, early 70s era.
First gen Kuntas, LP400. 1974 to 1978 is when this was built with a four-liter V12 making 375
horsepower. I kind of like the 80s cars. They're iconic. But if any Kuntas, it's the first one.
I like the first one. Yeah. Marcello Gandini and Nuccio Bertone got together and created what I
think is a masterpiece of automotive style. It's probably the best known car design ever. Ever.
Yeah. So alongside that is the mirror built from 1969 to 1971, also with a four-liter V12,
only making 370 horsepower. It was turned sideways in the back. Who does that? Lamborghini does.
Gorgeous styling. Also very, very iconic, classic 60s and such days. Yes. But I'm going to start in
on the Urus. Okay. The Urus, since being introduced in 2017 as a 2018 model, Lamborghini's sales
have doubled. And in the first year after the after the Urus went on sale, 60% of Lamborghini's
sales were the Urus. I'm not surprised. It's the Cayenne effect. It's the same idea. It's the Cayenne
chassis. Thank you. It is absolutely the Cayenne effect. Remember when everyone was kind of pissed
off that Porsche built this Cayenne? Porsche, what are you doing? Why do you even need this?
Why do we need this? And it was the Cayenne and eventually the Panamera that saved the company
and allowed Porsche to continue building 911s and Caymans and other cool cars. They sell Cayennes and
McCombs so they can build everything else. Pretty much. Yeah. That is what the Urus has
done for Lamborghini. Yeah. And at first, when this came out, I liked it a lot. And then I've
gone through the period of really not liking it. Are you coming back around? And I'm weirdly kind
of coming back around because the more I see it, there's actually one in my neighborhood in a powder
blue that I've seen. It turns my head. I think, you know, I still think you wasted your money.
But it's cool. But it's cool for other people to drive. Sure. I mean, I like looking at it.
Sounds amazing. Yeah. Absolutely. And we still haven't driven one, but drive a Bentayga or a
Cayenne or a Q8. Yes. Exactly. You really have. I hate to say it, but it's very similar. But this
thing, weirdly, and now they've got the Performante, that is the version that I'm showing here in yellow.
And I think the Urus was necessary. And therefore, this Urus, alongside the new
Revuelto, is peak Lamborghini. Really? In the 70s, late 60s, early 70s. Yeah.
And it's peaking now. I think Lamborghini is now entering a renaissance.
Now, this Revuelto is a 1000 plus horsepower hybrid triple electric motor V12. And then the
Timurario below, it's also brilliant. That's what we're hearing. The Timurario styling, I'm
quite on board. I need to see one in person. But the Revuelto, I kind of lost interest after the
interesting. Okay, all right. Okay. And then all the variants of the Lamborghini, the cyan
phenomenon came out, all this stuff, just how many more variants that the other Kuntas
Kuntas seem like are, yeah, what are we really doing? You're just putting a body kit on what exists,
and it's not that much better. And calling a special edition and selling it for more and
extracting the dollars out of people who can afford to buy them. But this has really turned my
head. I'm intrigued by this. It feels kind of original now. They're starting to have a voice.
They're still way over the top. I mean, they're for Saudi buyers and YouTubers to buy. It feels
like that, doesn't it? Yes. But I mean, the guy in my favorite, I'm sure the monthly nut on that thing,
I don't want to touch that. Terrifying. Yeah. I have no idea what he's paying, but it's probably
a few thousand dollars a month. Oh, yeah, it's a mortgage. Just so you can drive. And it turned
my head. And I think, you know what, with Lamborghini, committing to V10s, V12s, committing to the
engines everybody thinks and associates with Lamborghini, especially V12s, and committing to that,
and then starting to explore their own hybridization, and they're not going full EV yet,
but they're starting to explore what's possible to incrementally give customers more power than
they needed it. And they just kind of needed it. But I'm kind of excited for where Lamborghini goes
from here, because they also cancel their EV because... Because they realized no one wants
to use Lamborghini. Interesting. But I'm actually encouraged because that is now forcing them to
really rethink who are we as a brand, their sales have gone up. And I went to Italy for the tour.
It was 10 plus years ago. Yeah, crazy. 12. Anyway, it's been a while. So I took the factory tour at
Lamborghini. And the gal leading the tour, she was very proud that Lamborghini made such fewer
cars than Ferrari. It was a point of pride. And she also said, when the chassis meets the engine,
there is no divorce. That's very good. I like it. Everything comes together. All the parts there
is no divorce. Now I've seen Lamborghinis explode on track and blow their engines up. We have seen
that occur, yes. There's a lot of race cars, Lamborghinis, some do well, others also blow
up and don't finish their races. And so I'm a little bit mixed on their racing provenance in
history. But still, I'm kind of encouraged because as crazy as this seems, I'm wondering if this is
so peaked that it's going to force them back to the beautiful stuff from the 60s and 70s.
Interesting. I'm wondering, I'm putting it out there, but I think they peaked and then they
had to do all this other stuff, get it out of the way, then Mercyologo was cool. But you know,
Garadon, yeah, salesmen up, and then the Urus, and well, now they've got more money, and now
they're exploring, they're exploring new shapes, new forms, look at the front end on this thing.
It's crazy. Interesting. And it's turning my head. And you could, to the non-car enthusiast,
just say, well, isn't that an Aventa Gallardo Huracan? What is that? Just one big mixture
of Lamborghini styling. You know what, it's starting to feel a little bit interesting,
and this coming from a person that has zero interest in Lamborghini. I wanted to go see the
tour because it's Lamborghini, but I don't own one. I don't aspire to really drive one. I mean,
I could be convinced otherwise. We are not those YouTubers, but you've come a long way for this,
actually. I'm a friend. I've gone like, oh, the Urus is so cool. Wow, the Urus is ugly. Is it cool?
I can't tell. I don't know. Well, I will say, I actually saw Timorario in person recently, and
it's smaller than I thought it was, and that actually makes the styling better.
Okay. I feel like in photos, it feels like it's as big as this thing, this big Ruelto,
and it's not. And something about the slightly smaller styling actually helps, size helps the
styling. Look at that. It's the radius of the rear wheel arch there. It's not a perfect circular
line. There is a reference to that LP400. There's little subtle things that it's not retro, it's
referential, and there's some nice things to be found on this car. And I think they're thinking
about, I mean, the Urus. It's a lot for you to come around on. I got it in a bit. I think, wow,
what a cool, is it cool? I mean, I'm still so mixed on this, but you know what? I like that it's
given them high-end lighting, sales, and boost to go explore their others' new cameras.
Well, we're here in Lamborghini, and I am going to jump straight to the icon. The 1987
Kuntash is the one, when you think Kuntash, you think this. What a sweep. You think the 1987
red Kuntash doors up wing on the back. You think that era, when they got to Horatio Pagani doing
the 25th anniversary, that was the bridge too far. That's two years later. That was too far.
Okay. This is 1987. But in the 1987 Lamborghini showroom, in the time travel that we're doing
for this exercise, in 1987, you can buy this iconic Lamborghini. You can also buy the Yalpa.
Sorry, guys. We just realized that backup audio has been running and not primary audio. So we
have primary audio. So we've just had a huge increase in audio quality here in the Middle
Podcast. We apologize for that. But I am continuing. The Yalpa from Lamborghini
was being offered in 1987, the same year as that amazing Kuntash. And guess what else was in the
showroom? With the Kuntash was the LM002, a B12 Lamborghini makes a Hummer before the Hummer
exists. This was designed and built and pitched for the military and then not bought and then they
sold them to the general public. And the other thing fascinating about these three cars, the Yalpa,
the LM002 and the Kuntash is they were all manual. That's a great point. The 002 stupid truck here
has the V12 because it just, every time I see one, it's just, it's goofy. Have you heard this thing?
It shrinks. That's the thing. It has the Kuntash motor in it. So you have a manual transmission
V12 Kuntash motor in something that looks like a Hummer that's gone through a character to your
artist. Seriously, 1987. Start with a block and cut some chunks off. All three of these cars exist.
That's true. The 002, the Kuntash, the Yalpa. The Yalpa. Pick your manual transmission. And
I feel like these Yalpas have come to be beloved now, like way after the fact. I feel like nobody
bought them. And now it's like that, the Lamborghini you can get. And so they become Lamborghini.
Yeah, exactly. And you own a classic Lamborghini, right? Yeah. So those three are my Lamborghini
choices. This 002 shows off what I'm saying as well. This is when Lamborghini is just, it's
ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It doesn't feel like Lamborghini's doing product planning.
Now it feels like they're doing product planning. Like what's our big one? What's the smaller one?
What's the SUV? What are the things? Are we selling coffee mugs? What are the accessories?
What's the, what's the hoodie look like this year? This is just like we're drunk in the factory.
Okay. Oh, seriously, we need to make a military vehicle. We have it. We have a crazy thing with
wings and we have a Yalpa for the people that can't afford the crazy thing with wings.
Boruchio Lamborghini did make wine for a short period of time. So I just, it's somebody's drunk
at Lamborghini and this is what happens in 1987. And I love it. I love it. That 002,
ergonomics, make an AMG, AM General Hummer feel like a masterpiece in human factors and ergonomics.
It feels like somebody had thought. You have to contort yourself. And then you're shoved into
the corner. It's just all engine and transmission and gears and everything in there. And you're
kind of off to the side trying to look cool. And every time I've seen one, I can't stop walking
around it. There you go. 1987 at Lamborghini over at Land Rover. We have many options. Okay.
But what I've got on screen here is a Discovery three. So this was known in North America as the
LR three, okay, built from 2005 to 2009. And I want you to know that this was a clean sheet
redesign. And I'm picking the LR three as peak Land Rover, okay, because this introduced the
integrated body on frame design, which combined the monocoque and ladder frame chassis together
in one vehicle. And again, it was clean sheet. This was starting from scratch. And their initial
sales estimation was about 27,000 vehicles. Okay. And in its run from 05 to 09,
they sold over 50,000 of these. You saw them everywhere. Everybody chose this. It was highly
praised. I think of all the boxy styling that Land Rover is. There's some nice things to look at
here. It was clean. It was professional. There's relatable shapes. You look at that rear corner
of the glass, the rear behind the B pillar, that rear glass for the rear passengers and that little
notch is parallel to the notch in the taillight little tiny all the way at the back, nice little
details. Yes, very boxy, but also very clean and for its time very modernized. This I hate to say
this. This was the one that the rich guys with the Range Rover bought their daughter.
This is that you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And I also hate to say this, but these were not
known to be reliable. Yeah, there were problems. The automatic transmissions didn't want to shift
or had very rough changes. This was solved by replacing the fluid a few times or resetting
the software. Early Discovery threes had a Hitachi compressor for the air suspension.
And that failed a lot. And they were replaced later with AMK units. And it's expensive to swap
one over because the computer also needs to be reprogrammed at the same time. Perfect. Because
the car is so heavy, the brakes and rubber parts of the suspension wear very quickly.
Sunroofs can leak. The brake lights switch can break. That's a cheap and easy fix. However,
and the electronic parking brake can seize usually from not being used. The solve is to drive it,
but it's also expensive and time consuming to replace that electronic parking brake. And if you
were to ever buy one, you need a huge stack of receipts for maintenance and only get the V8.
No to the six. Only the V8. No to that diesel V6. Yeah, there were problems with them. But
I love that people bought on styling and they are and were very capable. Yeah, of course. Yeah,
I saw these everywhere. I agree. It's almost like every practically everyone bought them.
And you know what? I do feel like people definitely use them. They were off-roaded,
they were used. A lot of problems. But I think this really speaks to Lambert because now
tell me the difference between the Rangy and the Valar and all of their product lineup.
They've all started to blend. They all kind of look the same. And I think this started it out with
some neat details. The disco is cool. But again, you see a Range Rover going by and you think now
which one of the Ranges is that? I can't, I don't know. This one you knew and it didn't look like
anything on the road. That's very good. I'm going to jump back a little further in my time machine.
As I was digging around in Land Rover, Range Rover history, I found 95 when these two vehicles are
not only hugely sought out, but I just think they really are peak Land Rover. First off is the Defender
90 from the 90s. It is super boxy, super Land Rover, Range Rover does a Wrangler. And I knew
somebody that had the 110 version of this in LA for a year and he got rid of it. He was in love
with it the day he sold it, but he got rid of it because every person was offering him money for it.
And finally, the price got so big, he was like, I just have to sell this thing.
Did he get a 911 after that? He didn't. But he just was constantly offered more and more money
until finally he was like, well, that price is good enough and he sold it. Everybody has that
number. Exactly. So here's the Defender 90. But the other one is the Land Rover, Range Rover of the
era. This is just, this is the iconic one of the 90s. You think Land Rover, Range Rover, I don't
care what they look like now. This is what they look like in my head. It's just that era. And also
the difference between the look of these two things, one of them is the rugged like Wrangler
use. It's got to be muddy all the time. Dogs in the back, you know, shotgun bent on the fender.
It's that it's like this one is filthy and we may never clean it. And the Range Rover looks like
all you're going to do is go to a polo match and then a nice dinner. I can see that. I mean,
you can get it muddy, but I can see this is more like, don't get it muddy. Exactly. But you got
you could and it can still go through a jungle. But this is when these two are very different.
And yet they're both very Range Rover, very Land Rover. So I have to go 1995 for these two. And I
think for me, that's peak. This is the one. Wasn't that the Seinfeld joke where people can see your
hips while you're driving because of the tall glass and the tall glass? Yes. And also, I mean,
they've had it forever. It's got the split rear tailgate. They used a later versions of these
to film a lot of the top gear stuff because these were the ones that everybody had that
loved and they could break the tailgate and they could have a guy kneeling in the back with the
big camera on his shoulder. That's how they shot all that stuff. So this is the Range Rovers that
we know. And I still feel like this is what it looks like, even though I see a new one and go,
Oh, that's right. They don't look like this box anymore. Really don't. Not at all. You don't
know what they're not even close. Is that I don't know sport Valar. I don't I don't really know.
In 2012, Lexus brought out a concept at the North American International Auto Show
called the LC. It was a concept that everybody unanimously said, Yes, please build that. Yes.
That is gorgeous. So what I'm showing here is that 2012 concept, because I want you to see
how close the production version car is to the concept. It's kind of amazing. It may be one of
the closest ones I've ever seen. Yes, the fact they held some of the lines. You're not seeing a
lot of shut lines because again, it's it's pre production. It's very concept. But yeah, look
how close these are. It is kind of amazing to keep that concept. And here it is still on sale,
even today. Yeah, yeah. It's been a nine year run currently for the LC 500. They've had convertible.
They've had hybrid. We've driven all of those versions unanimously. It's sort of the GT car
that nobody thinks about. It's really quite a brilliant car. Now it's fairly heavy. And it's not
the highest performing sports car ever. But you don't buy an LC 500 for that reason. It's a
wonderful highway cruiser eats the miles. Yeah, great sounding V eight, the cliches. Yeah,
ripping silk. It's the whole deal like from the V eight. All the cliches you can imagine for the
sound. It is one of the most beautiful cars Lexus has ever produced. When I think of
peak Lexus, I think of the LC 500 and the LFA. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. From 2010 to 2012,
Lexus built a 4.8 liter V 10 with a 9000 RPM red line. Most of this car, about 70% of this car
is carbon fiber. To my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, that this is one of the
cars built ever built with the most carbon fiber components as far as road cars are concerned.
Road cars got to be way up there. Yeah, yeah, not a race car, but for a road car to have this
many carbon fiber components and the the percentage of carbon fiber used in this thing.
And I'm going to admit, I really didn't appreciate this when it came out. I looked at the hood,
I looked at the little dip in the line here for the side into on the rocker there. Yeah,
rocker way down at the bottom. Oh, yeah. It dipped slightly before it comes back. Interesting. Yeah.
It wasn't German. It wasn't. Oh, sure. Very severe. And then it turns a radius and then
continues on up. It had a little bit of a motion to it. It flourishes a bit. Yeah.
And I thought, was that a mistake? Did the designer like, did you bump his elbow? Like,
what happened right here? Well, I always thought the gap in the hood was odd. It always looked
like an unfinished shut line. Hood was odd. This particular styling element that was
the body of the car at the rear quarter window that overlaid the glass for the purpose of,
I couldn't tell you. Just a point. Looks cool. Yeah, it does look cool and a triple exhaust in
the back. Fans right here at the back, you could see the cooling fans. Yeah, I didn't appreciate
this car. I admit when this came out, I just thought, Lexus, what are you doing? And then the
more I've heard about it, we have not driven one our friends at Savage Geese have and they did
a brilliant job on really doing a deep deep dive for this car. This is a special benchmark car for
Lexus. It is just the fact that they thought we're going to build the car in a clean room.
And we're going to put all this carbon fiber. We're going to build this V10 and we're going to
put every bit of our know how and this is the tip of the spear. The way these cars had to be shipped
was also an engineering feat. The way they were boxed up and shipped to customers around the
world was almost unheard of the care that you had to take. It wasn't just car on transporter.
They built special containers to ship this thing. Unbelievable. So the LC is sort of like
the poor man's LFA. It is still get a little piece of Lexus out of the LFA. The LFA, there's one that
comes to our local cars and coffee now and then we've met the owner. The LFA when it shows up,
it has presence. It doesn't have crazy styling, but it has presence versus your LC you've got there.
That is a timeless design like the E type. That's going to be beautiful forever.
I don't know that the LFA I would call beautiful. The LC 500 I would say is beautiful.
The LFA though has presence and purpose in the way that it looks and it really is very cool.
I never see it in this blue. There's also the Nurburgring edition in orange,
but usually you see them in white and black and silver. I think that's true.
I did not go with this era, but I got close and that is I think Peek Lexus is 2001 and let me show
you why. I mean, I know they came out in the 80s, but in 2001, think about these icons in the lineup.
The IS was doing its first generation and you could get this with a straight six Toyota motor
and a six speed. That's true. It may have been a five, but it was a manual with the watch face gauges
and I didn't appreciate that at the time and over time I've come to realize this was the
peak of the IS. This is so cool. They came out and really were this is the one place at the time
they were aiming for BMW. The three series. This was the three series was such an icon in the early
2000s and they were aiming for it. And so this IS existed. Of course, the LS existed. It was in its
second gen at this point and it was still like the car that nobody could believe how good it was.
People weren't surprised it was as good like they were when it first came out. It wasn't that
surprising, but it was like Lexus is still doing that at such a high level. The LS existed
and the RX 300 as much as I want to load this. This is the beginning of a revolution.
Oh, I'll load that for you. Fine. Lexus starts selling this in 01. Yeah. And I don't think I'm
over stating to say they changed the industry. I think you're right. Everybody decided they
had to have a five seat egg. And now we have nothing but five seat eggs everywhere. So I do
blame Lexus and also praise Lexus for this because you've done something here that has changed the
market in the same way the LS changed the market. That changed how luxury cars were built and what
was tolerated. And this changed what people that don't care about cars much everywhere wanted to
drive. I hate to say it that way. But because it was a Lexus, they just run forever. These things
still hang on to value. They're still making variants of the RX. But these old early 2000s ones
are still out there running. This was Lexus proving they can introduce something to the market.
It's going to be valuable. It's going to retain its value. It's going to be reliable. And it just
works. I don't like these. But they were a revolution. And this is all 2001 at Lexus.
They are throwing down. But guess what else was 2001 at Lexus? My favorite Lexus ever.
The concept car from Minority Report was also 2001. You like this thing? I love it. You do.
It's my favorite one. Really? It's my favorite Lexus design ever when this showed up on screen.
And granted, if you see it in person, it's a car for the movie.
True. There's a lot wrong with it in person.
True. But on camera, in this futuristic world, to have the coolest car in the movie of a futuristic
world be a Lexus. Okay. All it needed to do was look cool. It didn't need to work.
You don't have to. Yeah. Okay. There's no ergonomics getting in and out. So the window
dropping door. Exactly. The whole point is can Lexus design something that's the coolest thing
in the film? And the resounding answer was, yes, they did. I liked the movie at the time.
But I remember being actually like removed from the movie and being like, wait, wait, wait,
that's a Lexus? Like in the middle of watching the movie the first time. So kudos to Lexus for 2001.
We come down to Lincoln. Yes. When you think of Lincoln,
peak Lincoln. I wonder if you and I are going to go the exact same place.
I took a pop culture approach. Okay. I came up with one Lincoln. Okay.
And that is the 2007 navigator. And the reason I went here is because
as cool as suicide doors are from the early sixties,
when you look at pop culture, when Lincoln really started to become kind of cool,
it was when the first navigator came out, there are 76 lyrics and 104 artists
matching navigator in their songs in pop culture. Really?
That's a lot. That's too many. That made an influence. It made an impact for sure. Yeah.
And those artists, those musical artists made an impact on all of their audience. So therefore,
everyone listening to Little Troy, to Missy Elliott, to R Kelly, to Rishi, to Sauce Money,
to Outcast. Sure. All of those lyrics. Everybody went navigator. Gotta have one. Yeah. Okay.
Lincoln, the navigator, and then all subsequent versions have gotten bigger and faster and,
you know, more luxurious. And they've kind of looked at what Cadillac's doing.
But with this, I still think Lincoln needs to do what Cadillac has done with their V-Series.
Lincoln needs to come out with performance and luxury. It can't just be luxury. It can't just be,
we made our cars for music videos. I still think they need to take it further. We made a nicer
interior version of a Ford product. Yeah. And that's all it was. Yeah, for sure. And that's
why when I buy that, why just get a gussied up expedition. That's all it is. But then it appeared
in pop culture like crazy and everybody picked up on it. And so for Lincoln, the brand, because
everything after that, do you even know what is currently on sale? I mean, I'll give you a hint.
It's called the Corsair. And the Aviator. And yeah. Yeah. No, that is no. Okay. But when
Navigator entered the pop culture, the Zeitgeist for 2007 and many artists who you know and have
listened to and Navigator was in the lyrics and Navigator Navigator suddenly it's it's cooler
than the Escalade. It did have that brief moment. You're right. Brief moment when it was cooler
than the Escalade. You're right. You're right. And then fell away. Interesting. Absolutely.
That's very good. I think you nailed that. I'm going to go somewhere else. We did not go to
the same place. Okay, good. I'm going to go somewhere else. And my caption for this is too
soon. It's the 1961 convertible Lincoln Continental Suicide Door. They are sorry. Don't get me
wrong. They're super cool. But here's the reality. You go up to the average person and you ask them
to put a model name after the car name Lincoln. Tell me a Lincoln something continental,
continental, right? Everybody's going to say continental. This got a pop culture resurgence
with the TV show entourage on HBO. That's a good point. Yes. But yes, Lincoln peaks with the
assassination of JFK. That's just because it is so burned into history. This car is connected to
that moment. And it's connected to things we don't do anymore, which is huge four seat convertibles.
It has four doors as being a convertible. They are suicide doors. There's a ton of things here
that do not happen anymore. These have been remade a ton of times. They've been in music videos.
They've been dropped, lowered, put on bags, everything. But you think Lincoln, you hear
continental and then you're right to JFK. Yeah, it's true. Maybe it's too soon. Maybe it's awful.
But I almost feel bad for Lincoln because I feel like they cannot get away from this in the same
way, not as tragically, but in the same way that Jaguar can't get past the E type. Lincoln can't
get past the 1960s Lincoln Continental Convertible. They really can't. This is probably why they don't
build cars anymore. Possibly. I mean, they had that continental briefly. By the way, if you want to
be nasty on a luxury car by a used recent continental, nasty styling, fine. The MKZ nasty. Oh, yes. I
agree with that. No, but the the recent Lincoln Continental, those are available for a song. They
did like German luxury car depreciation. They're way down there. You can get a lot of luxury car
for your money. But I just have to say, sorry, Lincoln, it's the JFK car. Okay, that's the icon.
Since you are the resident Lotus experts curious to hear where you will leave the deep dive of
Lotus history to you. Oh, I don't know about that. But keep going. But for Lotus, peak Lotus,
I think it's been fairly recently. What was it? 49? We're way back. Way back. And then the Lotus
seven is still being made by people to this day. And that's a car for 50s. That's true. All of those.
It's got incredible history. But what is pinnacle Lotus engineering pinnacle lightweight combined
with great power and beautiful styling. I don't think we have to look further than the recent
era, the Elise that you have starting in 2005, the Avora GT, and the Amira. I think all three
of these cars represent peak Lotus, Lotus at their most their highest powers. And I include
everything. It's not just handling. It's not just the Yeah, do something with Lotus handling
batch. Sure. Sure. I mean, this particular car, what an incredible car, the Avora GT, the Elise
is for me, the brand encapsulated. There have been some great ones, some great ones. Don't get me
wrong. Yes. Yes. I think things really gelled stylistically speaking. I think this is the
prettiest car in a long time of all cars and the prettiest car on sale right now. There isn't a
prettier car. I'm going to agree with you, but I actually owed me a mirror. So it's hard for me
to say, but yes, I agree with you. I really don't. There isn't a Ferrari, not a McLaren,
not a Mercedes, no Porsches. This is the prettiest of all cars right now. I agree with you.
They're peaking right now. And the Elise in the Avora GT sort of led to this, that thinking.
We've already discussed Lotus and what they're doing with Lotus for me. Yes. In the future.
Lotus for me, Lotus for you, Paul. Who knows? It's like a BYD, but for Lotus,
it's great. Build your dreams, Paul, at Lotus for you. The sun is not setting on the, anyway,
it's not a metaphor of anything. I just, what a beautiful, great power handling that is
refreshingly different from everything else. Yes, it is. On the road. And I think those two
cars led up to where the Amir is now. So Elise leading through the Avora GT, which I do really
love. It's a great special car. There's some raw things that are sort of like, yeah, that's a bit
kid car-ish, but it's Lotus. Okay. But as I've said before, the reason I skip over the Avora
is because I have an Elise. I have a raw car from Lotus. Right, right. It makes sense to have the
Amir. It's the much more usable car. And I cannot believe I have both at all and get to say that
sentence. But anyway, yeah, I'm actually going to stay pretty modern time as well, but not quite
this modern. Because again, I'm trying to pick a year when you can walk in. Okay, here's the
problem with Lotus. Lotus has had a lot of really good cars, but they were selling like
a car at a time. They don't really sell a lot of things at the same time.
A Lotus for you? A Lotus for me? Yeah, just a Lotus for you. That's it. We have one.
That's where that came from. That's where that came from. And look, and I can't ignore the seven,
which I don't have a picture of, but I can't ignore the seven, which becomes the modern day
catering and a lot of other things. That is probably the longest running most iconic Lotus
shape. Okay, it's like this undercurrent, a lot of a lot of other things. I think
that the peak when you could walk into a dealership, and I can't believe both these
cars were for sale at the exact same time, is 2004. And I say that because elsewhere outside
the US, it was the first year you could buy the series two Elise that became the American Elise,
that was 04. 04 as an 05 model, it started being sold in the US. But also in 2004 was the last year
for the Esprit. Sweet looking car. And after the Esprit, as much as I like Myamira, Myamira is not
competing in people's minds with Ferraris. It's not competing with Lamborghinis. No. The Esprit
did in people's minds. I thought 03 was the last year for
apparently 04 was when the last few were being sold. Really? I cannot believe that the
series two Elise is being introduced because the Elise was introduced in the 90s. Okay,
and the series ones are very cool and they're even lighter and they're even lower power,
and they're even more raw, which is crazy. But the series two is often called the federalized
Elise. That's the one where they were making it for the US. Okay, so it had it was just a little
bit nicer and a little few more airbags and those kind of things. Advanced smart airbags.
Seriously. But after the Esprit ends, Lotus has not gotten back to making a hypercar,
supercar actual competitor. As much as I like Myamira, as much as I get that experience out of
it, you could go out when the Esprit was being sold and hold your head up high that you bought
one instead of a Ferrari or instead of a Lamborghini and it felt like parody. Even though it didn't
cost the same. It felt like parody. Okay, keep in mind, the R8 hasn't come out yet when this
is true. But are you only putting it in the category for the ones with the twin turbo V8?
Not necessarily. I'm saying four cylinder. When the first came out, the Esprit was like great car,
super car with a four cylinder. But the Esprit always had that iconic feel. It did. Yeah. Okay.
And Lotus doesn't have a car that exists in that area now. I'm not talking about the Avaya. The
Avaya, I mean, I know it's not vapor where it really exists, but it's just it's like a weird one
off. Okay. Yeah. This was your hyper car, your super car from Lotus, and they haven't made one
sense. Oh, four, they have a super car and they have a sports car. And unfortunately, we're not
back there. Though I do have to say I like your choices because I do love Myamira very much.
You're already on those cars. The Elise is superb and such a moment in time. I'm going to start with
Lucid. Do it because I think Lucid is pretty simple. Fortunately, pretty simple right now.
They sell two cars. They sell the air and they sell the gravity. Great. That's what they sell.
They sell those two cars, air and gravity. A couple of years ago, they didn't have the
gravity on sell yet. It was just the air. They've been around just short enough time that I think
we just have to say right now for Lucid. But I might steal your thunder here a little bit.
Okay. Because I am going to say one thing. I saw gravity on the road this week here locally.
Oh, you did? I did. I saw gravity. And while they are cool, they are also just a minivan.
It's just a minivan. The excitement about the gravity. Yes, the excitement about the gravity
among automotive journalists has been hysterical to me and to you as well. Well, because this is
a minivan shape. It's a minivan shape without the useful doors. That's what boggles my mind.
You've made the useful shape of a minivan, which has never been sexy. And you took away the one
reason you really want to buy a minivan. And that is the enormous hatch opening and the sliding
doors. The doors. Yes. As much as I am not a minivan buyer, as we've said before, nothing
out minivans a minivan. And most of that is, Hey, the big whole side of the thing just slides out
of the way. And the kids trump in muddy and dirty and nobody cares. Kids and dogs and you can hit
the button and that's what we're for. So I am laughing because there has been so much press
about the gravity being revolutionary. And you and I both keep walking around at an auto show going,
isn't it just a minivan? And yes, is the answer. Yes, it is. I'm glad they have product diversification.
Agreed. And I'm including Lucid here because with their backing, the dollars that are backing them.
Yes. It feels like they'll be around. It doesn't feel like, well, they're not selling too well.
And so we'll pull the plug and we need more cash. But no, the cash is going to be there for a long
time. They've invested in building factories. So it feels like this is kind of the beginning.
And you're right. It is peak Lucid is right now because it's the only time for Lucid.
But there is one particular car that I had to reeducate myself on it is the Air Sapphire.
And I went back and looked at all the stats and specs for this car. It's unbelievable.
It's staggering. This is a quarter million dollar car. The 2024 Air Sapphire has 1,234 horsepower.
It has 1,430 pound feet of torque. It has an 8.9 second quarter mile. This thing will lay waste
to all of the bikes. Of course, at 01X is still quicker. It's giving it a run for its money.
Put three people in it with you and challenge the ZR1X next to you.
But the one number that I didn't know about this car. We put 200 mile an hour cars in a different
category. This is a 205 mile an hour top speed car. I didn't know that this was a genuine 200 mile
an hour car. I knew it was quick. I knew it had a lot of horsepower. I didn't know if it was speed
limit. I didn't quite realize that this is a 200 mile an hour car. When we say that, we think
Ferraris, McLarens, all the Bugattis, all the top end stuff. 200 mile an hour. Wow, cool.
Right here. And we've driven the Air, not this version. We've driven the Air. It is a superb
electric car. If you're in the market for an electric car and you can get a Lucid, if you can
get a used Lucid, you've got a great deal. Yes, and those prices are continuing to come down.
Like them a lot. They're very, very good. It's a different experience. There's so much great design
and the driving experience is actually kind of interesting. It's a big heavy sedan, but Lucid
makes a 200 mile an hour car is the headline error. I didn't know that. I read that genuinely.
Not to mention some of the highest range of any EV. Yes, that is astounding. It's very, very good.
I saw gravity two weeks ago and it was parked by the guardrail on the side of the highway.
You're looking pretty grounded there. All the jokes, I was trying to work on it. I'm still
working it out here, but you know, he looks stranded. I was like, gravity, the thing, it's real.
Being held down. Minivan. Okay. It's a minivan. It's an EV minivan without the good doors. Without
next time when we hope to get through the entire letter M. We have to get further than that.
We have to she Mazda. Oh, no. Many. Are we going to get there? I don't know. We're trying. We're
going to get through the alphabet. We have dedicated ourselves to this. It's going to happen. Thanks
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I know you're not surprised to hear that we have track days coming up. Hooked on driving has lots
of track days nationwide, tons of them happening. The 14th and 15th of this month, March,
Ridge Motorsports Park that is just outside Seattle, it is a phenomenal track. Our Pacific
Northwest is doing a two-day event there and you should come because that track is awesome.
Then March 19th, that's a Thursday down at Sonoma. We're having a first event at Sonoma for
this calendar year. It's such a great track and people just come to that track in hordes. I love
it. It's really cool. And then you and I are traveling near the end of the month, the 21st
and 22nd of the month. That's a Saturday, Sunday at Ozark Spring Speed Fest at Ozark International
Raceway. We've actually never been to that track. I keep hearing great things about it.
It's funny, we only hear two things about that track. One is, oh, you have to come. It's amazing.
And the other one is, oh, if you're a first-timer, be careful. Be careful. So I'm very, very excited
to be there. That's going to be really awesome. And then of course, we do still have a few spaces
left for our two marquee events for the year. And I'm not kidding. I'm not exaggerating. They're
both almost sold out. Circuit of the Americas, Coda, that is May 30th and 31st down in Austin,
Texas. We cannot believe how fast that is selling. And I think Novice is like a space or two. If
you're a first-timer, you better sign up now. B Group has a bit more space. B Group do okay.
B, C and D have space all of the above, but it's selling really fast. Make your plans to come to
Coda. We love to have you with us. This is the year. It's going to be so good. We don't know what's
going to go on with Coda for 20, 27 and beyond. You've heard things. We've heard things, but this
is the year. Make your plans. We'll be there absolutely. And yeah, it's such a superb track
to learn. It's a real favorite. It's rewarding. There's speed. There's technicality. It's a great,
I mean, set up one track. It's such a good track. And then, of course, I have to say it again,
pilgrimage trip, it's going to be amazing this year. It's a little longer than normal. We've got
two days on spa, one day on the ring. It is an actual dedicated track day on the ring, which is
how you want to drive the ring. I promise you. That is August 2nd through the 9th. We have a
good group coming. Some people are ringing spouses. It's going to be really, really cool. It's going
to be spouse-friendly and driver heaven, honestly. You have to come. There's like honestly, while
I'm talking right now, I think there's one space left. Yeah. So sign up now. It is available. And
we'd love to have you with us. The best term was when Ted said it. It's the once in a lifetime
trip you should take every year. It is epic. And we've got multiple people that are coming back
again this year, including Ted, which is good. But we're going and it's going to be awesome. So
that is in August. And you can sign up now at everydaydriver.com, adventures tab for pilgrimage.
But then everything else we've talked about is all hooked on driving.com. And we'd love for you
to be with us. Chris writes to us from West Virginia. He's been listening and watching
quite a long time. Chris, thank you so much. Really cool. Six years on from his first listen
of this podcast, he's lining up as first to drive in his family group because Chris is 16 years old.
So wait a minute. So that means he's been listening since he was 10. How did you find this podcast
at 10? I'm glad. I'm very glad. And pass it on to friends and family. But he's been listening
for six years. He's now 16. And college dual enrollment is fast approaching. My gosh,
you've got to be smart as well. Man, oh man. So you're the first of the kids in your family to
drive. So we can all I can I can this feels personal. I know it does. I know it does.
At such a young age, Chris writes it can be overwhelming to look at the wider car market.
And yes, it is. That's why we're doing peak. I'm just kidding. Did you listen to me?
Hence the peak. We had peak. Yeah. Uh huh. He says the budget caps out at $15,000,
but it needs to be a very nice or low mileage example for anything over 11 grand needs to
be manual to prove to his family that he's attentive to his driving a specific request
from his parents, which he doesn't disagree with. He's very comfortable driving a stick.
But this is he says a purchase under 18 years old. He says it's not his money.
He said simply speaking, it's not my money. His mom wants it to be to have a reasonable
amount of driver side airbags. Sure. Understand. Yeah. And he doesn't disagree with that. But
he says the requirement isn't friendly to most cars that are pre Y2K. Just think of
you get a car that's way older than you. Yeah, that's true. And he's right. I mean,
look, I fully agree with your parents. I applaud your parents for saying you need to be driving
a manual. That's what we did with our son and he boat. He's having a great time. In fact,
we're having to like try to get him out of his car, which is a nice problem. I just love that
you're like, we need dinner and groceries. He's gone and he's earlier today. It worked. The parenting
worked earlier. We were going somewhere and we, he was like, I'd like to take my car too. It was
like, sure, fine, whatever. That's awesome. So it's very funny. So he's loving it. So I love the
fact that your parents would like you to have a manual transmission. It's very cool, Chris.
I also appreciate the fact that it's their money. But you have created a dilemma because you want
manual transmission, but good modern airbags. And those aren't necessarily at the same era of cars.
He doesn't need enough power to knock himself out. That's his term. Love it. Okay. Good. Just
needs to be fun and a manual. He says the car would only be used for driving to his rural
school campus or an internship. He's not worried about the manual is a long term decision. Although
he does say he wants to own this for upwards of five to 10 years. Okay. You're going to get used
to starting to wrench on your car, maybe learning how to do oil changes and maybe a transmission
rebuild here and there and just kidding. Hopefully not. Yes. So in the area where he lives, they
only get about one to two mild snows a year in the area of the DMV says DC, Maryland, Virginia,
and just barely West Virginia. So no special catering to the elements. No problem there. He
says what he's considered up to this point for reasons inexplicable, even to himself,
he had his heart set on a very specific and undesirable car. The 2007 to 2009 Nissan Altima
3.5 SE manual. The v6 engine is used in lots of Nissan, Nismo, Renault, Alpine performance cars
and race cars. 35 DEV six. That is the one that winds up in lots of places and it wound up in
the Altima. I'll be, I'll admit, you've educated me, Chris. I didn't even think about that car. I
looked it up today and was like, Oh my gosh, there it is. Yeah. Not many were built. Most are in
bad condition. Otherwise, he's looked at the 2001 to 2005 Lexus IS 300 part of the Lexus there.
It is hard to find those in manual. Chris, you're right. Yeah. GT 86 chassis, the Hawkeye
WRX Hawkeye. Hawkeye era. Yes, not the bug eye. Yep. And even your beloved Sabur 92 X Todd,
he just can't, he can't find those cars anywhere. Yeah. They're hard. He's also concerned about
reliability reports on those latter two cars past 150 or 200,000 miles. But whatever this ends up
being, he's not as concerned as how expensive insurance might be because their family rates are
just outrageous. That's going to be crazy. Period. Yeah. Just writing that off and hello to Chris's
family because I'm sure you're watching all this and about to watch our recommendations. He says
as long as it's not a Mustang or Challenger levels of bait for insurance to chomp down on,
he says good stuff. Most of the cars that he has mentioned are pre 2010s because he's not afraid
of working under the hood. He just can't be nickel and dimed in the long run. Boy, do I have
options for you. I've got a few good ones too. I've got I want to talk about a couple of the
ones he's picked out and then I have four others and I landed on one that I think might be my
favorite right before we started recording. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, jumping right in, Chris.
It's Todd Sun's car. This is the actual car my son drives. Yes. That car, the 2005 Mini Cooper S
R 53 Mini Cooper S. What a great car. I think you should absolutely go look at these. They are fun.
They are after the year 2000. They are airbags, manual, fun to drive. He wants more than two
seats too. It does all of the things. And this is the second high mileage Mini that is really
well taken care of and is driven a lot and runs. You're right. I mean, you know, I hope it keeps
being driven a lot and keeps running. But yeah, I'm trying to allay your fears, Chris, about the
Mini. I mean, you could go get yourself case swapped original Mini and go nuts with horsepower and
look at that thing. That has to be fun to drive about 10 years ago. I forgot that. Remember
this thing? No, I don't. But that's amazing. Yes, that has to be so much fun. Can you imagine just
I can't the front tire just melt. Probably don't go anywhere. They just melt. That's really cool.
I love it. Good. So I just thought that as an outlier. But also you'll notice these three cars
are from our $12,000 challenge. The 12 K and under cars that just came out recently at the end of
2025, the Mini Cooper S, the Ford Fiesta ST. I mean, if you spend a lot, if you spend 12 grand,
you can probably get the nicest Fiesta ST out there and their superb, great. I'm great on the
longevity for for high mileage. Take care of these. They're loads of fun. And the 3.8 I want you to
look at the 2015 3.8 Hyundai Genesis coupe. These were built all the way up until 2016.
But the Genesis coupe is fun to drive all manual gas mileage. Well,
depending on how you drive, they're not all great. But the Fiesta is pretty decent. But all of all
three of these, I will not recommend an RX 7 or a Camaro to you, even though those two cars were
part of that film. But the first three cars in this film, I want you to go watch that. If you
haven't already, these particular cars, I think speak directly to your story, directly to what
you want. And I think they would all be fairly friendly on insurance and fairly friendly with
the parents. I think the parental unit approves of all three of these. It's good. I hope I like it.
And they're all they're all more than two seats. So he's done that too. One or two seats, airbags,
manual, fun to drive, fairly modern. I think any of these could work. You have drive homework,
my friend. That's good. I have a few four years. Well, Chris, first off, I'm going to start with
a couple that you've already mentioned. And I want to circle back on them and talk about them.
One, of course, is the WRX manual with the Hawkeye actually brought up a Hawkeye picture here.
Yes, these are hard to find. The problem with these is, is the one you can afford the one you
want to buy. That's the problem because these, they only get down into like the 12 grand range
when it's the one you don't want, like they're beat on. Okay. And that's actually the beauty of the
Saab 9-2X. If you can find them, because those aren't known about, and you got to look nationwide.
That's the key thing. They were like modded into oblivion. People don't know about them. And so
the problem with it with a used WRX below 12 grand is that might not be a car you want to own.
It might be more work than you'd like, because these have known issues, especially with high
miles. So I do understand that. But I wanted to show that I think you need to take a serious look
at a first gen 86, the FRS or the BRZ, because this has the proper dynamics you want to learn.
You've already brought it up. Power wise, your parents are going to be thrilled. It's not some
big heavy duty car. And you as a person driving manual are going to have to really drive the
manual to get all the power that it has. Then you're going to chase the torque dip and you're
going to mod it to oblivion. But, but you can actually, you can actually learn to drive manual
better as a result of having one of these. And the dynamics are perfect. And it is, you admitted
it. It's just slightly enough, more than two seats that it might get by. Plus it's a fairly modern
car. So fairly modern safety tech. So this is a really good option for you. And I want you
to take a serious look at it. Take a good test drive. This strikes me as the kind of car you're
going to love and your parents are going to be like, I don't know. And parents, I'm going to tell
you right now. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because if this had twice as much power as it does,
I would side with Chris's parents and be like, I don't know. But with the power that it has,
I think this is a fantastic choice. And it isn't a small mom as a Miata. And I say that
because my wife was like Miata is a bridge too far. She would have been open to this. My wife
would have been. Okay, Miata was a bridge too far. So anyway, so there's those two Chris that
you already talked about. But now let's talk about three others and a little bit of overlap here.
Mini Cooper S the R 53. I did not take a picture of my son, but you included it, which is good. So
R 53 many these are awesome. And I love them. And they're super charged. And again,
they seem to run defiantly against type. Let's hope it continues to charge super cheap super
awesome super fun. Yes. Also the fiesta ST Paul brought it up your $12,000 gets you a phenomenal
fiesta ST. I really do like these. These these are fun at every speed. But if we're looking and
we're concerned about okay, it's a turbo it's an ST I have two others for you that donned on me.
Two other really good hatchbacks with good usable space
that are fun to drive, but are not first glance enthusiast cars. And the first one is
the Honda fit. The fit fits. Look, I'm actually showing the earlier 2000s model that I will
admit is just not attractive. But they refine this again a little more attractive. This has a
great six speed in it. A fantastic chassis. We've known many people that track these and
then turn them into race cars because they are such a good dynamic car to drive tons of space
tons of space you want to take friends you want to take you want to haul random stuff.
The Honda fits got you. So this is just a lovable properly well put together car with a manual.
It's not as interesting as some of the others but this is just a workhorse and these things run
forever. So Honda fit and then the other one that is kind of a wild card for me but it is also
my favorite because it is the most modern and it does everything we're talking about. My concern
is that 15 grand top you've got is the bottom of these. So I don't know that you're going to find
one but I got to go there anyway. Current Gen Corolla XSE with a manual. That's great. We drove
one of these when they first came out before there were even rumors of the GR Corolla and you
said pretty definitively if they would just make this all wheel drive 300 horsepower they would
have a winner on their hands and that was almost the exact recipe of the GR Corolla. This is not
all wheel drive. This is not 300 horsepower. It has enough power for a first time driver but it is a
2020 and newer. This is a new car so it has all the latest safety tech and they only sold it manual
for a few years and I looked online Auto Tempest nationwide and I found a few selling for 15.
I found a lot selling for 17, 18 and the top of the market is just over 20. So these are just
above your budget but if you are really thinking long term this gets you a much newer car with
good dynamics, a good chassis, a good manual and modern tech and safety. So I can't ignore it.
Once it dropped into my brain I was like wait a minute you are the perfect buyer for one of these
Corollas if the budget will allow and it may not. You said it. I'll say it a different way and that
is of all the new cars this can be justified for paying two, three thousand dollars more parents
because you're not going to be wrenching on this. It's so much newer. It's going to have the newest
tech and it's going to be driving much longer for sure. Upgrade the tires and
phenomenal car. Really, really good. So I hope that helps you Chris because you got a lot of
stuff to drive and parents I hope that helps. Chris thank you for writing. Really appreciate
you listening and watching since you were 10. You were 10. It's crazy. I love it. That's great.
It's really good. And every day driver, tvedgmail.com, topic Tuesdays, car debates, car conclusions too.
And now we have a car debate that is completely unlike the car debate we were just in. It's
the opposite end of the spectrum. I want to meet David in New York. I want to understand David's
story because I don't understand quite exactly what's going on here. He is a car guy through and
through and through. He likes manual transmission and he lives in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, Manhattan.
Okay. Like the worst possible place on the world to have a lots of cars to take care of and be
everything is manual and that is David's way to be. David's in an apartment in Brooklyn. He doesn't
have a set commute but he drives to the Bronx 15 miles once or twice a week for business and he
drives 45 minutes to an office on Long Island 50 miles once every two weeks. Okay. Both of these
drives are lousy with traffic and many potholes. But good news. He has lots of cars in their
own manual. Good news. Yeah. Highly relevant. He recently purchased a vacation home on Long
Island 110 miles away. Once he gets past his office, it opens up and gets nice and the new
house itself is surrounded by some of the best country roads he's ever experienced.
All wooded, tight, hilly back roads, 30 miles an hour speed limit.
You sound like B roads in England. They do. Well, also no traffic but plenty of deer. Be careful.
He is married with two kids. His daughter's in college. His son is in high school learning
to drive. He takes the subway a lot so doesn't need to drive day to day. He's six foot three
and if he grows more, he won't fit in David's fleet. I started to say that to my son. My son
has slowed down, which is good, but I keep saying stop by six feet. You'll fit in everything. Yeah.
He's learning on manual transmission in Brooklyn just like his daughter did.
This makes the way that I trained my son to drive manual seem awfully easy.
Come on, kids. They'll drive anywhere and anything. Yes, they will. Here's the fleet.
This is an important sentence. David likes small, lightweight cars from the pre-digital age.
He likes to keep them clean, which is another odd quirk in New York City.
I hope you use Grisgarage products. We hope so, yes. He also includes his parking situation
that is critical when you live in a New York City apartment. In Brooklyn, he has access to two
indoor garage spots and street parking with an alternate side if you can fit. On Long Island,
he's got one big car garage that he can squeeze two of his small cars in. He will be building a
three car garage with a lift for the Long Island house soon, plus a driveway. Just okay. How do
you make this work? Plenty of work. I want to know what David does for living. It's part of
what I want to know. I want to know how on earth you're making all this work. But that's a side
note. It's not about budget. It's about finding something to add to this fleet, which I can't,
we haven't gone through the fleet yet. I can't believe this fleet, but I have heard so many
people complain about the cost of parking a car indoors in New York. It's almost a duplicate
of putting a roof over your own head. He has two covered spaces and the rest of the fleet
rotates the side of the street from the one they're not street sweeping. So he's finding street
parking for the rest of the fleet and he's keeping two in a garage and he's paying for the two in
the garage. There's the Long Island house is now going to have more garage space. This is madness.
Great madness. I mean, we're thrilled to have you with us and you are our people. I want to
meet you David, but this is, this is crazy. We're talking about a 1990, this is all currently in
his fleet. Notice he didn't send history. Did you notice this? He didn't even send history. He was
like, this is all current events. The whole thing is current events. You're right. You're right.
1993 original first gen Miata five speed 73,000 miles. He's had it for 30 years. It's been in
the family since new. He says it's everything a Miata is supposed to be. He has a 2012 that
seems awfully modern Porsche Cayenne six speed with 65,000 miles. You bought one of the rare
second gen Cayenne's with a manual. You have that right now. He has that Cayenne. He has
that Cayenne. That is the family car. We've talked about it. Yes. You are the guy with one.
2018 Fiat 500 Abarth his second 500. His first one was not an Abarth. He has an Abarth now
five speed 14,000 miles. Loves this thing. Loves the fact that it has an obnoxious exhaust noise.
He's like, I know I wake people up. I turn along in the morning and I'm fine with it.
Loves it. Loves that thing. A 1987 Suzuki Samurai. When's the last time I said that?
When did we put those words together? Have we done that in a thousand episodes of this podcast?
I have not ever seen. I haven't seen one in years. I had a buddy that had one in college
and I haven't seen one since he got rid of it promptly after college 1987 Suzuki Samurai. He
has one soft top. I just cannot believe this exists. He says, look, it's terrible. He acknowledges
that it's terrible. Takes forever to get to 60, but he says, if you get it outside the city
and you get it onto a beach, it's dune buggy. Then it comes into its own. He says he can fit the
Miata and the Suzuki in one car garage, one space. Of course you can because they're both tiny.
Yes, I love it. He likes tiny cars and last but not least, and there's a whole I will spare you
the diet, the separate diatribe. But last but not least is the 1987 Honda Prelude.
This is the car from remember when so he has bought it with a friend. They bought it and
they just kind of have it as the nostalgia car. But the funny part of this is remember the parking
issues somehow he's ended up responsible for parking it. Yeah, how did that work? That's
happening as well. He mentions in passing that he does have another car in the fleet. That's not
really his car. It's a 2019 Mini Cooper two door. That's an automatic because that's his
daughter's car at college. Once she got out of high school, he said, okay, I'll get you
something else with it with an auto. What do you want? She wanted a Mini Cooper with an auto.
So it's not actually in the fleet. It's like family adjacent, but it is her car.
Then David writes he wants to buy something else. He's going to have more garage space soon.
He's debated splitting something with his Prelude friend like a Lotus Esprit or maybe an M5,
but that's a different decision because it would involve his buddy who did not write in.
This is just for David. Yes. He's trying to rationalize. Budget is flexible. Dangerous,
he knows, but he likes spending less because it feels more freeing. Who cares about a ding or
a scratch on a used $25,000 car? Yep, I get it. But he says anybody can buy a new 9-11,
but only a genius can find the hidden gem, the price of fun. By the way, his father just bought
a 2024 manual 9-11S. I love that he says anybody can buy a 9-11. By the way, my dad did. Yes.
He actually says any idiot can buy a new 9-11, but he's not calling those owners idiots because
he does acknowledge his dad bought a new 9-11S, but generally not his style. 2024. For the absolute
perfect car, he could spend up to $100,000, but he wants to keep it below 50. We're going to work
on you for that. And the lower it is, the more he can rationalize more cars. But I think I have
the car I'm calling my shot. At this point, David's considered a 2021 and newer Alpha Julia,
TI Sport. Love it. He's considered a Jag F-type, gorgeous, like a poor man's Aston Martin. Sure.
2019 and newer BMW i3. His son hates the look, but David loves how distinctive it is. That
resonates with you too. It doesn't resonate with me. I have a soft spot for him as well. I hear
you on that. Yep. He's never had an EV, but he really has nowhere in New York City to charge,
but he figure he's good enough to have some fun. Quirky, Quirky cars. And then last on the list,
well, not quite. 2019 Toyota Supra, GR Supra. It was almost last. He says he doesn't know why
he's drawn to this car. He loves the looks. He loves the engine. Feels like last of breed.
But then again, he has a Suzuki Samurai. Yeah. So who needs a use case?
Yeah. What on earth? What's it going to be for? But yeah, I hear you. His parents also have a 2012
Audi A8L long wheelbase. The car is pristine and worthless. Got it. Okay. Yep. They have indicated
a desire to sell. There it is. The Audi that you want. The A8L. Yeah. A8L. That's the aluminum.
That's the one you want, right? Well, I actually want the slightly older one. It's the one before.
It's the one before that is the contemporary to the Faten. I thought we found you your A8. No,
it's okay. It's okay. But it is funny that that also works its way into this debate for David.
It's suddenly, oh, by the way, I do have this 2012 A8L. Would you like that while we're at it?
Why not? Let's just have fun with all of it. Good. I had to work my way there. So I'm not going to
show photos of these to you. Okay. But just here's my thinking, my through line. I started with
a Volkswagen Rabbit pickup diesel. Oh my gosh. Because it was just weird. It is weird. I like it.
It's good. Well, you've already had the Volkswagen thing built from 1979 to 1984. Those weird little
pickups started out with 48 horsepower. And then they got a 1.6 liter and bumped it like 58 horsepower.
I like it. That's good. Oh, how about a Subaru brat with the cool jump seats? And you've got a brat.
Oh my gosh. Also pretty low on horsepower. Duplicates the samurai a lot though. It does. It does.
And then I thought something JDM, like a Suzuki Cappuccino. And then I realized you already have
a Suzuki. True. Yeah. This is insane. No, and they're all small. And you already have a Mian. So no.
And then I thought, well, how about a Mini Cooper? Like the original, like this late 60s one. Like,
well, no, your daughter drives a Mini Cooper and that just, you'd like it for just a little bit.
And then I think you'd be done with it. So I'm calling my shot. Okay. There is only one car
that I think you should buy. I'm going to spend a little bit more of your money. And I know it
encroaches. It's not above 100 grand. Think, think 60 grand. Okay. This. All right. A brand new Morgan
Super 3. Oh, that's interesting. If we're going to go nuts, let's go nuts. I get it. 1400 pounds.
Yeah. Yeah. It's got the Ford Dragon 1.5 liter three cylinder making 118 brake horsepower, 111
pound feet of torque, five speed manual with a top speed. If you can believe it of 130 miles an hour.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a three wheeler with a three cylinder engine. It feels
pre digital, but it's still a modern new car. And this thing you said low speed, fun driving roads,
you're going to start, start shopping for flat caps and a scarf and a leather jacket.
By the way, Morgan sells all that stuff on the website too. This is the picture that I want to
paint for you. You're on Long Island. You're tooling around great back roads. Maybe your other
friends want to buy a Morgan 2 and you're all hanging out together just cruising around a
Morgan three wheeler, a new one, a Super 3. And this is you, my friend driving off into the sunset
in your Super 3. I got so excited about this. I want one. I imagine. Really? Okay. Just as a
quirky, different, everybody will suddenly be your friend. Everybody will want to talk to you
about this cool thing. It's got a tiny gas tank, but who cares? You're tooling around Long Island.
I think this car never leaves. Don't ever take it into New York City. Don't ever take it in a no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Danger. Terrify. Yes. Agreed. Yes. Leave it out on the Island and look
how fun this is. I mean, these are all just lifestyle. Look at what we can go do. Taking
it 20 miles an hour. Yes. And everybody will be your friend. I think these are, I think this is
the choice you need. It's fun. It's quirky. It's lightweight. It does all of the things you need
and it is even modern, but they're about 60-ish thousand dollars, depending on how you spec it.
They'll sell you the saddlebags right here. You can have the canvas saddlebags. Oh my gosh. I think
they even make leather and you can have, you can outfit, you can choose a custom number, a custom
color and it will be yours. And I think it's the quirky, unique thing that is just so far
out of the realm of what you were thinking that it's, it will stick around. It will always be
appealing because anything else we choose will be like, you got the Suzuki, you got the Miata,
you got all the cool, quirky, fun stuff. What do you just want to take? What do you just,
we've got to jump in this thing? I mean, no doors. You're right. You're totally right.
No doors. You just jump in and you go and like put on a hat, goggles. You could shop for goggles.
Never thought you'd shop for goggles, but we're helping you. That's amazing. Super. Good job.
Three. I see it. All these people are wearing sunglasses. I need some goggles in there.
He's wearing goggles. He's wearing goggles. That's why he's at the back. They can throw mud
on him. Throw in the spray up. But look, a little road trip. Road trip and they drove it right off
the road onto the beach. That sounds like David's life too. I like it. These things come with avon
tires. They're like bicycle tires. You can shop for avon tires. You're going to get super excited
about all the accessories and the road trips in your super three. My friend, that is possibly the
biggest sell I've ever heard from one of these. I have to give you credit. I want a super three just
to throw the scarf and goggles and helmet and we're gone. You'd have a watch on each wrist.
I know how this would work. Probably so. We're going and then people are like, oh, there's one.
Talk to that guy. David, I'm going to walk through your actual options and then I'm going to throw
in a wild card as well. But I want to, based on your story here, I want to talk through the cars
you have available to fill this slot. And I'm starting with the Audi. I think this is wrong
for you because I think it's too big for Manhattan. Oh, that's the W12. Yeah, it happens to be. I
actually looked up the L and it ends up being the W12 in this photo, which is crazy. But this is too
big for you to want a street park in Manhattan. So it has that problem. You want to start being a
delivery driver. It's, it's an auto. Yeah. And you don't like that. And it just feels too big and
too at a distance. Unless what you plan to do is lots of big road trips. If you're going to start
doing lots of big road trips, or if your wife or your kids are starting to say, I just like to have
something isolating, then this gets back in the picture. But nothing about your story is those
things. So I think this is wrong, even though it's an interesting option, I think it's wrong
for you. That leads me to the Julia. I have a lot of trouble finding what's wrong with this
for you. I think you would really enjoy this. But I'm wondering when you drive it, because you did
say that the Cayenne, which remember is manual, feels really big to you. Now these actually drive
small. They have a fantastically fast steering rack. They are very fun to drive. You said it's
the rare sedan that intrigues you right now. I will back you up. This is one of the most
interesting sedans on sale, full stop. It is brilliant. You could get a used quadrifoglio for
your money, which I actually think makes this far more interesting, even though I'm not sure
where you're going to drive it, because the back roads out in Long Island, it's going to be too
fast. In Manhattan, you're going to be like, why is this so stiff? So I wonder about this, but the
exhaust would rival your Fiat 500. It makes up for everything. I feel like if we got the manual
version of this, this would be your car. But I really wonder because you're so much against
having anything but a manual. I feel like this car you're going to love. The few times you have it
on the Long Island back roads, you're going to love it. And anytime you drive it otherwise,
you're going to be like, I'm not engaged with this enough. Why doesn't it have a manual? That's my
concern here. The i3. Look, I like these things. I kind of have an inexplicable like form. You're
really quirky, interesting city car. I don't know that you need that because you have the 500
Abarth and you enjoy the 500 Abarth because it has a crazy exhaust and it has a manual. That's why
you like that car. I think you're going to like this for a month. I think you're going to be,
because you've also never had an EV. I think you're going to have it. You're going to be like, oh,
look at all the new little interesting things it does. And as soon as you understand them all,
and you've kind of embraced all of those things, you're going to be like, and I'm bored. Hey,
bamboo. Because of the way you engage with a car, I think this, as soon as the novelty wears off,
you're going to be looking to sell it. I don't think it has long term interest. I'm interested
because they're cheap and because there is a place in my life for having just the, I'm going
three miles, run about car. Perfect. Perfect. That would be awesome for me for that. You don't
really have that need because you have other cars that do that and they do it with more fun for you.
So I think this is out. The Jaguar is way up there. But you have to find the manual.
And those are hard to find. If you can find this in a manual, I think this is your car,
because this will be the car that will make you want to find a fun road and an overnight trip.
Because it's going to be soft enough that you could take your wife and you could go somewhere.
Maybe it's the summer home, but maybe it's just, I'd like, I've never driven there.
This is nice enough that you guys can do that. But if you get the manual transmission,
then you still have the manual. So it ends up being modern enough, but still sports enough
and still special enough. This is rising to the top for me. Okay. But I say that if you find the
manual. Only with the manual. Yeah. The Supra is in the same category. You have to get the manual.
I think this might be the modern sports car you never knew you needed. But it has to be
the manual. This is one of the best manuals being sold right now. You can get a brand new one for
your budget. It is worth it. That B 58 engine is a bomb. It's a fantastic engine. The seats are great
for you to drive in all day. You need to get in one of these because it does have a little bit
of a bunker feeling. Some people don't like it. I actually think this car is fantastic every time
I've been in one driven it. I love these things. If you get the manual, you're going to bore yourself
if you don't. The crazy thing about David's story is none of these cars are leaving.
That's the part where I scratch my head. He gives this list of cars and none of them are on the
shopping block. And so I'm realizing only add it's an additive. Yes. And I'm realizing everything here
I feel like has a very serious overlap with something you already have. I've made a case for
some of them, but I'm going to give you one more and you're not going to be surprised by it. But
I think kind of like your Morgan idea. I think while it overlaps, I think it elevates and that is
by yourself and Elise. I got a hint of two. This is way up there for me. I hear this is why because
this is the more modern, more powerful, more of everything version of everything you love about
your Miata. This is the super car version of your Miata. It's not a super car. I'm not saying that,
but I'm saying compared to the NA Miata, this is an elevation of everything you like about that car.
While getting into more of a special exotic feel, but the nicest, a nice one out there right now
is 40 grand. The nicest one out there right now is 80. So what, where would you like to buy?
Anything over 80, by the way, they've just marked it up. Anyway, they just have. I'm sorry. But the
reality is which model year would you like? Which color would you like? Which setup would you like?
They're all manual. They're all analog. Everything you like in a car is here, but more modern than
most of the old stuff in your fleet. And it elevates everything you like. I think for your
Long Island home, it is your lease, but I also challenge you find a hooked on driving track
day. Oh, that's great. And take this to the track day, drive it to the track day, put it on track,
drive it home. You will love this thing and all those scenarios. Try to keep it out of Manhattan.
You're not going to like it there. He's in Brooklyn. Come to a Northeast track event. Totally.
You've got some great events this year. I think the answer, truly, because as much as I like
my lease, you've heard me do it a million times on this show. It's not right for most people.
No, it's not. I think it's right for you. Here that could work. I think it could really work.
David, thank you for writing. Thank you for adding. Adding. Nothing's going away. Everything.
Seriously, I kept reading this list going, which of these are on the chopping block. Half of his
list is like the stuff that normally people write to us and go, so these three cars are obviously
going. All of it stay. We're all going to live like curiously through you, David, because you're
only adding and that's pretty much what all of us only want to do is just add to our fleet.
You're having more garage space and the car list should grow. So absolutely. So please let us know
what you do end up getting. Thank you for writing. Thank you for being with us for this crazy series.
And we apologize again for the audio issues is what it is. But we're always looking forward to
next time. Thank you for joining. Share the podcast as you said at the very beginning.
And we've got more of the alphabet to do and we didn't even get to car conclusions. This was
still a marathon next time. The letter M, the letter M brought to you by the letter M. Remember
those shows? Anyway, yeah, here we are till next time. Cheers, everyone.
About this episode
The discussion centers on Lotus's shift from traditional lightweight sports cars to hybrid and electric SUVs, highlighting skepticism about the brand's direction and the new 'Lotus for me' concept. The hosts debate the authenticity of Lotus's handling heritage in these heavier models and the impact of Chinese ownership. They also touch on Hyundai's decision to discontinue the standard Ioniq 6 in the US while keeping the performance N version. Additionally, the episode explores Infiniti's peak with the Q50 Red Sport 400, reflecting on its performance legacy and brand identity struggles. The conversation blends brand history, product strategy, and personal opinions on automotive evolution.
*the guys apologize in advance for less-than-ideal backup audio that only lasts until 41:57. But it’s a fun discussion and worth listening until they swap to primary audio! Thanks for your understanding!*
Covering ten OEMs for ‘Peak INFINITI - Lucid,’ the guys utilize two different strategies of evaluating the most notable cars from each manufacturer. They generate ideas for Chris D. In West VA, who wants a long term car and needs to keep the parents happy. Then, David is a 100% car enthusiast who lives in NY, but loves country back roads too. He only wants to add quirky, unique and fun to the fleet - what should he buy next?
Audio-only MP3 is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and 10 other platforms.
Look for us on Tuesdays if you’d like to watch us debate, disagree and then go drive again!
00:00 - Intro
00:12 - Lotus For Me?!? What’s That?
6:56 - Hyundai Ioniq 6 Sales Discontinued In U.S.
8:47 - Peak Car (INFINITI - Lucid)
1:14:17 - EDD + HOD Events And Adventures 2026
1:16:55 - Car Debate #1: Pleasing The Parents
1:30:02 - Car Debate #2: Only Add More!
Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to our two YouTube channels. Write to us your Topic Tuesdays, Car Conclusions and those great Car Debates at [email protected] or everydaydriver.com
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