Peak INFINITI - Lucid, A Delicate Balancing Act, Unique Is The Starting Point | Episode 1,036

Welcome back to the podcast. I don't know about you, but I'd like a Lotus for me. There's

a whole thing going on with Lotus for me. Lotus for me is a thing. Why? Why?

It's a thing.

How do you burn down a brand? It's news, but it's also, it's bad news, isn't it?

This is the Electra on screen. This is not the Lotus for me. This is just a representative

example because we don't know what the Lotus for me looks like, but what Lotus is doing

is making hybrid. They went all electric and claimed that the Amira is the last gas

powered sports car we're ever going to build. How long before they renege on that? How long

before they backpedal and come off of that one and say, all right, the next Amira generation

or whatever they call it next, I think they need a word and they'll call it that.

The Lotus for me is the first LTS certified ex hybrid hyper SUV launching in China late

March, 2026 with global rollout to follow. It has a two liter turbo gas engine with two electric

motors and a 70 kilowatt battery on a 900 volt platform, adding up to about 939 horsepower.

LTS means what you might ask that is Lotus tuned specification and engineering standard

that Lotus has enacted ensuring consistent driver centric dynamics. So what comes all

their products, what we've done is we're essentially making a large, super heavy,

super powerful SUV with the badge on the back. This is handling by Lotus. We've gone back to that.

It's handling by Lotus. Anything about this was either nothing about this is Lotus.

Actually Lotus. Yeah, yeah, this the Lotus for me is their ability to do the

electric without it being all electric because electric kind of sounds like electric. You see

what they did there? Ooh, that's exciting. Yes. Yes, I'm making fun of Lotus because they deserve

it here. This is some sort of hybridized SUV and they're, and they're selling that again

as look at how powerful this is more powerful than the Electra will be and therefore is cooler.

That was the door for, okay, from all electric. Now they're going hybrid. So, so that has opened

up the world for doing whatever I want to Lotus product that feels like a Lotus product.

This is a rebadging exercise and I understand. I understand. I get it. I get it. Their parent

company is the Chinese company, Geely. They make all the electrics. I see the connected tissue.

But this may as well just have a handling by Lotus badge on the back,

which through the 80s and 90s, a lot of cars that shouldn't have handled well

did because they were some manufacturer's car with handling by Lotus on the back. Yes.

But that was a badge of pride. Yes, it was. The cars were lightweight and it actually made sense.

I mean, Porsche has offered engineering services. Of course. Many companies offer engineering services

for years and the Lotus badge was the highest badge of all Lotus tune handling. Oh, well,

then this car is worthy of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Lotus for me may be the thing that

really wraps this up as where have we gone? And I say that because I got lost in translation.

I love my Amira. It seems to be selling okay, even though if I spec it right now, it's $20,000

more expensive for my same car than the way I bought mine in Christ. It is a great car.

Our friend Jonathan over at RSR just got his he has so much exposure with all of the high end

Porsches at work. He wanted something that wasn't that he just kept coming back to,

but it's so different than Porsche, which is cool. It should be cool. Here's what I hope happens.

I hope whatever these stumbles are that Lotus continues with new product. And if they want

to offer a big monster SUV, Porsches done at BMWs done at whatever, then at least exactly,

at least keep offering new and interesting sports cars that play to the core of the brand.

Get a Lotus for me. I can't believe I'm telling you something got lost your chance in translation.

Something there was a miss and it came out as Lotus for me and everybody's sort of gone. Yeah,

what now? Yeah. Why would I buy that? It's because it's a Lotus for me, Paul. This is from the same

market that has a car named Build Your Dreams. Yes. So in that regard, it feels like it makes

some sense. Yes. It's just over here. We're going. It doesn't really breathe. It doesn't land. Yeah.

This is quite over here. It's like Ferrari going Ferrari for no one. Well, it's which is true.

Calling their car the Ferrari Ferrari. The Ferrari. Yeah, it is. Did everybody catch on that? And we

all just kind of glazed over and went, oh, the La Ferrari. The and no cares. So maybe it maybe

might work. Maybe it would resonate and it's different than every other car company in North

America. When did naming die? Was La Ferrari way out front with just AI naming? Like what should we

call the monster Ferrari and AI goes, well, how about the Ferrari and the four door Maserati?

Yes, the Quadra Porte. I mean, that didn't take AI. That just took Italians in need of lunch break.

They were leaders in that field. They were before AI was naming cars. They said,

call it the four door. I'm going to lunch. Yeah. You also need to know that Lotus has hired pianist

Long Long, what an incredibly gifted, talented individual. And he has implemented music programs

for kids around the world and really giving back, really investing in the music community.

So incredible. But he is named as the Lotus friend of the brand. So here he is being a friend of the

brand. I don't quite understand the connection except that it is about pursuing the things that

you want and having the freedom of expression. And that's the through line. The Lotus is

promoting. You're establishing a very high brow thing. Yeah, classical music. Yes. High

brow at the top. That is a classy association. Very different association. I'm not saying

necessarily good, bad, but very different association from saying, we have a rapper. And

also I wonder if he becomes a consultant because Louis needs this on the quality of their stereos.

Like, can they play him music back in the car and him critique? I suppose so. I would hope so.

And I say that because one thing about my mirror that is not good is the stereo is bad. I don't

care how many brands they put on it for. Hey, that's a cool brand. It's not good. They're not in

the business of making cool stereo. So maybe, but it's the expertise in your field. I see the

through line. Lotus has the expertise in their field for the handling. That's it's never been

power. It's never been style. It's always been handling. True. Yeah. And so the through line of

excellence here, I can see it and I hope they pursue it. But I hope that means they continue

to make gas powered cars that are light or even if it's hybrid, it's still got to be light, lightness.

That that is heavy. Was there a through line? That was everything everybody knew about the

brand. But anyway, it's on the piano keys or something. Clearly, lighter on the piano keys

than the electric is on the road. Even at his most aggressive, that's how that works. Your

Lotus for me. Yeah. When you're driving it, do you think Lotus for him? Is that what you think

Lotus? This is my Lotus. I don't know. Let's hope so. One other bit of news here that is Hyundai

has announced the Ioniq 6, which I just find questionable to look at. I need to see one up

close. We haven't driven one yet. But the Ioniq 6 non-N is ending in the US. But the N is going

to keep being sold in the US. It's very interesting. They're going to sell the performance version

only in our market. Very curious what that means for just what's the take rate? How many people

want that car? I'm actually really intrigued to drive it because we do like the Ioniq 5N.

So here is the more sedan version. I generally like sedans better than SUVs anyway. The back end

of this, I think is questionable. But hey, let's see it in person. It's different. It's so different

from every other product in Hyundai's design language across the whole portfolio. So I think

that's why it's jarring maybe a little bit. But I do want to drive the N. At least the N is staying

in our market. But the standard Ioniq 6 is dead. So that's very interesting.

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Going to get through this everyone. We are still doing our peak car list which we do respond to

on thank you so much for actually liking this. All of our numbers are up everywhere which is

really really great. We thank you to those of you that are finding the podcast share with others

please review it. We appreciate all of that very very much. I thought that the amount of research

required for car debates went up because the amount of research or brands that this has taken

it's and I'm getting educated. Truly I'm getting educated by the process. Yeah it's forcing both

you and I to make decisions but in a cool way it's forcing you all listening and watching to

make decisions. Do you agree with this? Do you not agree with this? And either way is fine. I just

I love that it gets us all thinking about all of these brands in our lives and the different

approaches that I love your dealership approach or I guess the year. The model year like you

walk into the dealership and this is on this model year leads into cars. I'm still fascinated by

the peak cars that come out and what was going on in in that company's history in their in their

time. I've got some cars for I through L so we still didn't get too far in the alphabet.

We still have 10, 9 brands at least. No it's going to be a while yet yeah but a couple more

episodes. I was forced to make decisions and I'm still having to come to terms with them.

Really what I think about that brand starting with Infinity and it would be easy to go all the

way back to the beginning and say door handles and the leaf floating in the creek down the stream

and there is no car shown or anything like that. But to me the peak of Infinity we've got this cool

engine. What other car can we stuff that engine into? So here we are at the 2016 to 2024 Infinity

Q50 Red Sport 400. Originally it's my understanding this was the Au Rouge concept which is the part

of Spa Francochamps the track where the algae that runs in the river underneath the track turns red

and therefore Au Rouge meaning that part of the track up the hill into radial is a very technical

high speed interesting and very fun part of the track. Very. And this thinking was why don't we

just stuff the GTR engine into a sedan? They should have. It should have been. It ended up as the 400.

The name implies 400 horsepower so it's got 400 horsepower about that in torque and this was

their hot performance sedan but it seemed like everything just became a luxury version of a

Nissan product after that. They were kind of doing it before and they got lost in the woods with the

M50 and their M and then they chose the letter Q and everybody scratched their heads and then

this came along and we liked this car. Yeah it was good. It's very good. The engine that we beg

for it to be in something else in Nevada was the engine in the Z car. It's a very good engine.

It was good in this car. The problem was it was a good engine and a chassis that well let me

rephrase in an interior that was getting very old. Yes that's the problem but still as far as

infinity the brand what do you think of when infinity pops to mind? Of all the car just the

sea of endless SUVs and cars. Sure. This one is such a standout to me that I think this is peak

infinity and to me it represents thinking not necessarily the car itself. It represents the

kind of thinking that was going on at infinity. They were in Formula 1. Yep I hear you. The things

were going great. The black series things were going great. We were doing so well. Here we are

with two expensive Pathfinders but it's Nissan. Nissan's been through the ringer. We have to cut

costs. I'm going to go my year to walk into the dealer at infinity and make it work. Good.

It's 2004. Okay and here's why I'm arguing that. This is interesting because you just brought up this

cue. The red sport. The Q50. Yeah. 2014 is the pivotal year when Nissan got a new CEO

and they dropped their nomenclature and they adopted Q and everything became Q and models that were

whatever else last year now had a Q on the front. GM. Exactly. I think 2014 is the beginning of the

slide in infinity because they changed nomenclature that was just starting to resonate. Think about

this. 2014 they embrace Q. 2004 I am claiming is their best year. 10 years prior. Interesting.

And by 10 years after my peak year of 2004 those G models were kind of burned into our heads. We

understood what it meant. We got the nomenclature and now it's all changed. But think about 2004

and infinity. You have and I'm showing on screen right now the G35 coupe. This is the 2 plus 2

version of the Z car. The Z. The 350Z in I would say arguably better styling and I am a sucker.

I will admit it right now. When I shop for wheels for any car I am looking for a split five spoke

and this infinity split five spoke I think is one of my all time favorite stock wheels to come on

anything. I don't know why I picked this car. I do love that. I've seen those wheels because of course

it's the same hub on 350Z and they look phenomenal. It's a great looking wheel on anything I've seen

along. But this was the G35 coupe and I actually at the time liked it a little better than the Z car.

Engine sounded good. Engine was strong. Also at infinity at this point you also had the G35

sedan which sold a lot. These were being put up against BMWs and doing well for a brand that was

cheaper and also had a really short history. Already by this point Lexus was being identified

as a luxury brand and Infinity was being identified as an enthusiast brand. You weren't putting the

Lexus product up against BMWs and expecting it to win. You're putting it up against Mercedes.

The infinities are getting put up against BMW. So you have the G35 sedan and the G35

coupe. They also were selling the FX and while I'm not a huge everything should have an SUV brand

this at least stood out and was available in 45 form which was a V8. A rear wheel drive

biased chassis V8 four door SUV was available in 2004. It was a tall car because it had such

a long nose. It had a very long nose. It was very different proportions than any other SUV.

It didn't look like a sports car. Yes it didn't look like a Lexus egg. It had a long front end

on it that could put a V8 under the hood which was amazing. They also sold this car which I think

is underappreciated the M. The M45 which had the same V8 as the FX but I think this M45 of this

era looks like somebody tried to modernize the classic 90s American sedan and I think it got

overlooked and underappreciated. It was. Absolutely. This is 2004 and Infinity. This M sedan,

the G35 sedan, the FX SUV with a V8 rear wheel drive and the Infinity G35 coupe.

04 was the peak. This was the place where Infinity could go one of two places in the decade to follow.

They could be right up there with BMW or they could be an and in 2014

Q and we begin the slide. It's interesting also because just the naming convention itself

denotes different class of vehicles. Yes. It's here we're using X and to be fair,

Genesis is doing the same thing. We've got G and GV so you've got the car force. Is it a G? Is

there a V in the name? The V means SUV but here GM we've got F and FX that instantly denoted in

customers minds. I think that's a class of vehicle and then the number indicates either

hopefully displacement but we kind of left that. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Or performance.

It kind of denoted. Oh, that's the upper end. That's the V8. That's the displacement. I think

that was a problem. I mean, you're absolutely right. I like this lineup from Infinity then.

So much promise and it was all about performance. Whether it's the Q50, the red sport or any of

these it was we're thinking performance more than we are luxury. It seemed like it. Yes.

All right. Moving on to Jaguar. Jag. There's going to be the foregone conclusions

with some of these. Yeah. And that's fine. I want to bring up here the XKSS which was the road

version of the Jaguar D type the race car from the same era best known for an association

with Steven Queen. Yeah. This is a photo from DK Engineering in the UK. They were or are currently

selling one of these. It's a continuation car that happened in 2016 and 2017. But from 1957,

very few of these were built. I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 2025 XKSS.

I think you're right. Versions of these. Pretty sure it was less than 100.

Not including a continuation cars here which I still take continuation cars. Yes. Absolutely. I

Yes. It's oozes style and class. Somehow it's the E-Type's crazier older brother.

Everything is a little more voluptuous than the E-Type and also a little more aggressive.

Racing in mine. Those define the brands. Yeah. And here is the D-Type that I came across from the

2018 Quayle show. A photo of mine and I just can't get over this car. It's just so sculptural and

beautiful. And really, that comes from the manufacturing method. The English wheel to coax

a shape out of metal without tearing it. Yeah. It thins out the metal and you're coaxing that

beautiful shape. You know, how far can we go before it breaks? Cinders don't match, but it's fine.

It's with it all by hand. Symmetry is great. It cares. It's worked for. But of course, the series

one and I'm showing here actually a racing version. Yeah. This particular car has the

provenance of being the most raced E-Type in history and also being sold by DK Engineering here.

And it's the perfect shade of green. It's the race version with you can see the pipes there,

but it's just so fun to look at. Yeah. But also it's a great car to drive just because of the

engine, the placement, the chassis, such a superb car. So where did style from Jaguar go? There's a

lot of other cool cars from Jaguar that influenced me later in my growing up years, but these two

are my standouts to me. This is still peak Jaguar and I don't think anything from Jaguar in the

future will overcome these two cars. Well, I mean, you and I are going to be in a very similar era

here and nobody's going to be surprised, but I will jump in here for Jaguar. I actually agree

with you on those that you've shown because they are awesome. But of course, in 1968, they were

selling the E-Type. Series 2, the 1.5 was like 67, some of the 68s, but by 68, there was a 1,

and then there was a 1.5, which is like 67-ish. That's right. That was a short lift. Because

they're doing tweaks as they go, much like Lotus does. By 68, you were getting into the Series 2.

You can tell the difference because the Series 2 has fully open headlights. The Series 1 has closed

headlights. That's one of the main ways to tell. So this was being sold and it was being sold in

flavors. It was being sold in convertible. It was being sold in hardtop, which I actually

kind of like more than convertible, just as a shape. It was also being sold in a 2 plus 2,

which I am not going to show you a photo of because it looks like a guppy swimming backwards.

It's not attractive. It's not good. It actually somehow gets an even higher roof and like this

big bubble back and it doesn't quite work on the car. The people back there. Yes, for sure. But

the actual coupe that I'm showing here, I think, is a fantastic looking car. But 68 was the first

year of the XJ that became the car that, if you think to the average person that grew up

any time last century, I know I'm dating myself. But if you were born before the year 2000,

if you go to anybody of that type and you ask them, what does a Jaguar sedan look like? It's this.

True. This was around for so long. 1968, you can buy an XK new that looks like this and you can buy

an E type new. And I cannot think of any bigger poster child cars for Jaguar that were just seared

into people's minds. You could see it at a glance with no badges and you know it's a Jag.

Know it's a Jag. So 1968, both those cars were available as your local Jaguar showroom. And I

believe, and I could be wrong here, but I believe the last couple XK SSes were leaving as well.

They were like 67-ish when they were selling the XK SS. So those are like just leaving as well,

even though I'm going with 68 for the E type because that's the start of this XK.

Seared into my memory for this car. And all subsequent versions of it.

Yes. In spite of the fact that this came in six cylinder and even eights and 12s, they

baited in every engine configuration. They had long wheelbase, short wheelbase. These were driven by

little kings and queens. Yes. And even though the styling did change, this picture I'm showing

the 1968 with the four headlights and everything, I think we all think they look like this.

Even as they change them and the lights change, we just, this is the way we picture it, I think.

So you and I drove that pink one years back. Oh, it's kind of like cars. So I had to go there.

Moving on to Jeep and I suppose we could ask the question here,

which Wrangler have all the Wranglers and all the CJ's, which one's the best?

Which is the peak, the peak Jeep. And I think it's the most current one. Okay. I think it's

the four door Rubicon 392 because finally it got a V8 for years. Everybody was wondering,

does a V8 fit? I wonder V8 fits and many, many conversions done. Yeah, the V8 fits.

And then Stalantis realized the V8 fits and shoved it in a Jeep.

Somebody mentioned it to them while they're at it. Yeah. This truck laughs at everything. You

and I drove this, it's on our test drive channel. It was astounding because we just tried to,

you know, kind of stump the truck, you know, stump the truck and it laughs at everything.

The noise is there, the power on the street. If you don't take this off road, you've lost the

plot. You have. Yeah. Completely. Well, because of the engine, it becomes funny on the street versus

just a chore on the street. It's, you're right. The engine makes it theater on the street now.

But then theater going up the rocks because you think, I wonder if my Jeep can do that? Yes,

is the answer. All of it. Yeah. If you want to point it at a direction on the horizon,

yes, is the answer. Let's go do that. It's so unbelievably capable, fast, powerful,

and expensive. These are a hundred thousand dollar Jeeps. Yeah, it's crazy. It is crazy.

392. All the Wranglers, I love the two doors. I love the four doors. I love all the Wranglers,

the CJs from the seventies and eighties. Cool Jeeps. Love them all. But when I think Jeep,

we've had this Jeep conversation. I think you do typically. Because I had a Cherokee

growing up and I shared it with my sisters. 1977 Cherokee, Quadra Track. You could watch the gas

even move. You could watch it just. It was so thirsty. AMC at the time. There you go. Oh yeah.

So Jeep Cherokee for sure. But you know, when you think Jeep, heat Jeep, it's always a Wrangler.

Sort of at this point. Which Wrangler do you think is the best? Which one do you have? That's

the best, right? Good. You and I are going to overlap a little bit here, but I'm actually going

to show a lineup and talk you through the lineup. I love it. A year is 2022. Okay. And not everything

that Jeep selling is good, but I have a picture of all of the above and I want to talk you through

it here real quick. This is a broad lineup for Jeep in 2022 because you have the Cherokee,

the Compass, the Renegade, the Grand Cherokee, the Gladiator, the Wrangler and the Wagoneer.

And what I think is weird is the fact that the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are different

sized vehicles. That feels weird to me. It feels like it should be like the standard Yukon or the

Yukon XL, but it's not. They're different vehicles. But they had to do something different than

Jamie Ford. Yeah. So that was very interesting. But the interesting thing about this era is the

fact that the Renegade, you know what? It's based on, it was the Fiat 500X, right? As well.

The Renegade is solid. I don't like it. I don't gravitate toward it, but for its market segment,

it's interesting. I suppose so. It's not the first choice for trail-rated, go-off,

no, of course not. But for that market segment, the little city four-door runabout that, honestly,

I can't even say this, but the Renegade gets closest to taking the mantle of the Honda Element

as far as styling and just the feel of it. If they had gone down that road, they would have had a hit.

If they just copied... I think it's the closest to the Honda Element continuation car. So the

Renegade I actually think is decent. And also here's the other thing. It's in a market segment

with a nine-speed transmission. Everybody else has got CVTs. The Cherokee at this point came in

normal gas engine, 4xE, and also came in long wheelbanks, like long, extended Cherokee. Not

long wheelbanks, but like they made a longer version, which was ugly, but they made one.

There may have been. The Wagoneer was a six-figure, still is a six-figure, suburban fighter from

Jeep. What are we doing? And Jeep doesn't know. And while I don't know that it was a success,

I'm applauding the boldness of going that far into luxury with Jeep. And then to your point,

you have the Gladiator, if you want your Jeep, your Wrangler in pickup, or the Wrangler, and

they're both available with 392s. Yeah, yeah. 2022, the 392s. Look, and we drove all of the versions

of this current Wrangler, and we've driven all the engines. And we did it a while ago. We actually

had the four-cylinder turbo Rubicon with the Ford Bronco when we first drove the two together. And

the reality is, any kind of rock-crawling you need to do, you can do it with a four-cylinder.

Even with the base engine. You can do it with the four-cylinder turbo. You can do it with the six.

You can do it with the big V8. You can do it with all of them. We've done it with all of them.

But the 392 makes it laughable enough on the street that you tolerate the things that are not good

about it on the street, and then it will still do all the off-road stuff. It's entertaining on-road

finally, and then brilliant off-road. It's sort of like, well, this is what every... you can't do

what my Jeep can do. And I'm confused. And if you want to do the E thing, the four-by-Ease are

available, those were super cheap to buy because there were incentives and that kind of stuff.

That's some problems too. 392 would be the way to go that I think that did make Jeep. I see your

lineup here that Cherokee, when that came out, always seemed to be just a me-too size. A me-too

product. Agreed. Yes, it gives them... it fleshes out the product lineup, which is what product

planners want to do. They want to, you know, chop it all up and offer you something. In every segment,

I don't think that works for every car company. And the Cherokee was... The Compass. Not great.

And the Cherokee are also right. And I'll take any Mazda CX anything. Yes. The Grand Cherokee is when

it's harder to get worthwhile, both. But I do think the Renegade holds its own as in that

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Kia hasn't been around in the collective consciousness. It's gonna be recent for

for too many years, too many decades. There's no 1960 Kia product to talk about. There's no dealer

from then. Yeah. When I think of Kia, I think peak Kia. It was the thinking. It was the Stinger.

When the Stinger came along from 2017 to 2023, the styling was different. It finally made sense.

Peter Schreyer from Audi had just joined Kia in the project. No dose of really great styling

into a segment that had very few competitors. Yeah. Yeah. And it had a lot of power and it handled

great and it was great to drive and reliable, spacious, hatch, gorgeous for a low price.

Almost one of one on the market. There was Genesis G70, the Alpha, you know, but we've

recommended this car so many times. You're probably sick. This is so good. I can't afford the Mercedes

BMW. I don't want to deal with it. The warranty, the engine, lots of power, speed, cool name. Yeah.

And it disappeared. It's gone. Yeah. But for Stinger, when I think peak Kia, it is 2017 to 2023.

Stinger, there's really no other standouts for me. And it still is a gorgeous car even now.

As is my way. I'm going to give you a year. Do it. And I also have the Stinger on the year that

we're talking about. And that is also 2022. This is peak Kia because the Stinger exists

into the Stinger run. But here's what else exists at Kia in 2022. The Telluride has just been

introduced and reshapes that market segment of the Unibody 7 Seater. That we were in this

camp as well. We were like, this Kia did this. Telluride remade that market segment. Actually

showing the early model here because they didn't change their logo to what everybody somehow

thinks is K-N. I like their new logo, but that's where it got introduced. It's not K-N. It isn't.

But so this is the original grille and the original Kia logo. So there's that. So the Kia Telluride,

the Kia Stinger, they also had the K5, which was the first time that Kia had a really competitive

Camry competition. A car in that segment that you probably would still pick the Camry or the

Accord, but you should take a serious look at the K5. It was fast. It was good looking. This

this squiggle side light got a lot of people's very unique. It looks like it's rear wheel drive

and isn't, which is always a success if you can pull that off. And they were selling it alongside

the Stinger. They also were selling the EV6, which, look, I'm not a huge EV fan and I don't want

another electric five seater, but in that world, this is good. They did it well. Yeah, this is now

because and platform sharing here. Yes, exactly. Genesis. Yes, for sure. So I mean, we kind of

liked this and all of its siblings, it was a solid execution of and these are cheap now.

These used, you can get them for a song. There's a lot of car in the EV6. They look great. I think

it's one of the better looking electrics across the board. Yeah. And the Carnival. You just have

to do my snaps. But before this, Kia's minivans were like the Oh, you couldn't afford a good one,

huh? Couldn't afford an Odyssey or seriously, you couldn't afford all the all the good minivans

everybody else buys. So you bought the Kia, the Carnival. I have to do it. I did. I didn't sign

anything. Anyway, the Carnival, I can do it with that snap. Nothing in the country. Exactly right.

It really is a very solid minivan. And they sent us when they first sent it to us, they sent us

in both configurations, like the family hauling configuration and the luxury hauling configuration.

It was the two different scenes that was really cool. So while I'm not a minivan buyer,

they became competitive with the Carnival. And this is all 2022. Carnival, EV6, K5, Stinger,

and also the Telluride. That was a huge year for Kia. Telluride is also a big Kia here. When this

came out. Yes, absolutely. There are waiting lists. Yes. You couldn't get one, a Kia. And now

we're all past the it's blank for a Kia. Yeah, everybody takes it very seriously now. I think

this lineup and especially the Stinger changed all of that. We move now to Lamborghini. Sure,

I like it. Not a huge fan. And I'm going to be maybe a touch controversial. Okay, all right,

with my Lamborghini choices here, because we're going to start out with the two most recognizable

and we're going to get those out of the way, starting with the late 60s, early 70s era.

First gen Kuntas, LP400. 1974 to 1978 is when this was built with a four-liter V12 making 375

horsepower. I kind of like the 80s cars. They're iconic. But if any Kuntas, it's the first one.

I like the first one. Yeah. Marcello Gandini and Nuccio Bertone got together and created what I

think is a masterpiece of automotive style. It's probably the best known car design ever. Ever.

Yeah. So alongside that is the mirror built from 1969 to 1971, also with a four-liter V12,

only making 370 horsepower. It was turned sideways in the back. Who does that? Lamborghini does.

Gorgeous styling. Also very, very iconic, classic 60s and such days. Yes. But I'm going to start in

on the Urus. Okay. The Urus, since being introduced in 2017 as a 2018 model, Lamborghini's sales

have doubled. And in the first year after the after the Urus went on sale, 60% of Lamborghini's

sales were the Urus. I'm not surprised. It's the Cayenne effect. It's the same idea. It's the Cayenne

chassis. Thank you. It is absolutely the Cayenne effect. Remember when everyone was kind of pissed

off that Porsche built this Cayenne? Porsche, what are you doing? Why do you even need this?

Why do we need this? And it was the Cayenne and eventually the Panamera that saved the company

and allowed Porsche to continue building 911s and Caymans and other cool cars. They sell Cayennes and

McCombs so they can build everything else. Pretty much. Yeah. That is what the Urus has

done for Lamborghini. Yeah. And at first, when this came out, I liked it a lot. And then I've

gone through the period of really not liking it. Are you coming back around? And I'm weirdly kind

of coming back around because the more I see it, there's actually one in my neighborhood in a powder

blue that I've seen. It turns my head. I think, you know, I still think you wasted your money.

But it's cool. But it's cool for other people to drive. Sure. I mean, I like looking at it.

Sounds amazing. Yeah. Absolutely. And we still haven't driven one, but drive a Bentayga or a

Cayenne or a Q8. Yes. Exactly. You really have. I hate to say it, but it's very similar. But this

thing, weirdly, and now they've got the Performante, that is the version that I'm showing here in yellow.

And I think the Urus was necessary. And therefore, this Urus, alongside the new

Revuelto, is peak Lamborghini. Really? In the 70s, late 60s, early 70s. Yeah.

And it's peaking now. I think Lamborghini is now entering a renaissance.

Now, this Revuelto is a 1000 plus horsepower hybrid triple electric motor V12. And then the

Timurario below, it's also brilliant. That's what we're hearing. The Timurario styling, I'm

quite on board. I need to see one in person. But the Revuelto, I kind of lost interest after the

interesting. Okay, all right. Okay. And then all the variants of the Lamborghini, the cyan

phenomenon came out, all this stuff, just how many more variants that the other Kuntas

Kuntas seem like are, yeah, what are we really doing? You're just putting a body kit on what exists,

and it's not that much better. And calling a special edition and selling it for more and

extracting the dollars out of people who can afford to buy them. But this has really turned my

head. I'm intrigued by this. It feels kind of original now. They're starting to have a voice.

They're still way over the top. I mean, they're for Saudi buyers and YouTubers to buy. It feels

like that, doesn't it? Yes. But I mean, the guy in my favorite, I'm sure the monthly nut on that thing,

I don't want to touch that. Terrifying. Yeah. I have no idea what he's paying, but it's probably

a few thousand dollars a month. Oh, yeah, it's a mortgage. Just so you can drive. And it turned

my head. And I think, you know what, with Lamborghini, committing to V10s, V12s, committing to the

engines everybody thinks and associates with Lamborghini, especially V12s, and committing to that,

and then starting to explore their own hybridization, and they're not going full EV yet,

but they're starting to explore what's possible to incrementally give customers more power than

they needed it. And they just kind of needed it. But I'm kind of excited for where Lamborghini goes

from here, because they also cancel their EV because... Because they realized no one wants

to use Lamborghini. Interesting. But I'm actually encouraged because that is now forcing them to

really rethink who are we as a brand, their sales have gone up. And I went to Italy for the tour.

It was 10 plus years ago. Yeah, crazy. 12. Anyway, it's been a while. So I took the factory tour at

Lamborghini. And the gal leading the tour, she was very proud that Lamborghini made such fewer

cars than Ferrari. It was a point of pride. And she also said, when the chassis meets the engine,

there is no divorce. That's very good. I like it. Everything comes together. All the parts there

is no divorce. Now I've seen Lamborghinis explode on track and blow their engines up. We have seen

that occur, yes. There's a lot of race cars, Lamborghinis, some do well, others also blow

up and don't finish their races. And so I'm a little bit mixed on their racing provenance in

history. But still, I'm kind of encouraged because as crazy as this seems, I'm wondering if this is

so peaked that it's going to force them back to the beautiful stuff from the 60s and 70s.

Interesting. I'm wondering, I'm putting it out there, but I think they peaked and then they

had to do all this other stuff, get it out of the way, then Mercyologo was cool. But you know,

Garadon, yeah, salesmen up, and then the Urus, and well, now they've got more money, and now

they're exploring, they're exploring new shapes, new forms, look at the front end on this thing.

It's crazy. Interesting. And it's turning my head. And you could, to the non-car enthusiast,

just say, well, isn't that an Aventa Gallardo Huracan? What is that? Just one big mixture

of Lamborghini styling. You know what, it's starting to feel a little bit interesting,

and this coming from a person that has zero interest in Lamborghini. I wanted to go see the

tour because it's Lamborghini, but I don't own one. I don't aspire to really drive one. I mean,

I could be convinced otherwise. We are not those YouTubers, but you've come a long way for this,

actually. I'm a friend. I've gone like, oh, the Urus is so cool. Wow, the Urus is ugly. Is it cool?

I can't tell. I don't know. Well, I will say, I actually saw Timorario in person recently, and

it's smaller than I thought it was, and that actually makes the styling better.

Okay. I feel like in photos, it feels like it's as big as this thing, this big Ruelto,

and it's not. And something about the slightly smaller styling actually helps, size helps the

styling. Look at that. It's the radius of the rear wheel arch there. It's not a perfect circular

line. There is a reference to that LP400. There's little subtle things that it's not retro, it's

referential, and there's some nice things to be found on this car. And I think they're thinking

about, I mean, the Urus. It's a lot for you to come around on. I got it in a bit. I think, wow,

what a cool, is it cool? I mean, I'm still so mixed on this, but you know what? I like that it's

given them high-end lighting, sales, and boost to go explore their others' new cameras.

Well, we're here in Lamborghini, and I am going to jump straight to the icon. The 1987

Kuntash is the one, when you think Kuntash, you think this. What a sweep. You think the 1987

red Kuntash doors up wing on the back. You think that era, when they got to Horatio Pagani doing

the 25th anniversary, that was the bridge too far. That's two years later. That was too far.

Okay. This is 1987. But in the 1987 Lamborghini showroom, in the time travel that we're doing

for this exercise, in 1987, you can buy this iconic Lamborghini. You can also buy the Yalpa.

Sorry, guys. We just realized that backup audio has been running and not primary audio. So we

have primary audio. So we've just had a huge increase in audio quality here in the Middle

Podcast. We apologize for that. But I am continuing. The Yalpa from Lamborghini

was being offered in 1987, the same year as that amazing Kuntash. And guess what else was in the

showroom? With the Kuntash was the LM002, a B12 Lamborghini makes a Hummer before the Hummer

exists. This was designed and built and pitched for the military and then not bought and then they

sold them to the general public. And the other thing fascinating about these three cars, the Yalpa,

the LM002 and the Kuntash is they were all manual. That's a great point. The 002 stupid truck here

has the V12 because it just, every time I see one, it's just, it's goofy. Have you heard this thing?

It shrinks. That's the thing. It has the Kuntash motor in it. So you have a manual transmission

V12 Kuntash motor in something that looks like a Hummer that's gone through a character to your

artist. Seriously, 1987. Start with a block and cut some chunks off. All three of these cars exist.

That's true. The 002, the Kuntash, the Yalpa. The Yalpa. Pick your manual transmission. And

I feel like these Yalpas have come to be beloved now, like way after the fact. I feel like nobody

bought them. And now it's like that, the Lamborghini you can get. And so they become Lamborghini.

Yeah, exactly. And you own a classic Lamborghini, right? Yeah. So those three are my Lamborghini

choices. This 002 shows off what I'm saying as well. This is when Lamborghini is just, it's

ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It doesn't feel like Lamborghini's doing product planning.

Now it feels like they're doing product planning. Like what's our big one? What's the smaller one?

What's the SUV? What are the things? Are we selling coffee mugs? What are the accessories?

What's the, what's the hoodie look like this year? This is just like we're drunk in the factory.

Okay. Oh, seriously, we need to make a military vehicle. We have it. We have a crazy thing with

wings and we have a Yalpa for the people that can't afford the crazy thing with wings.

Boruchio Lamborghini did make wine for a short period of time. So I just, it's somebody's drunk

at Lamborghini and this is what happens in 1987. And I love it. I love it. That 002,

ergonomics, make an AMG, AM General Hummer feel like a masterpiece in human factors and ergonomics.

It feels like somebody had thought. You have to contort yourself. And then you're shoved into

the corner. It's just all engine and transmission and gears and everything in there. And you're

kind of off to the side trying to look cool. And every time I've seen one, I can't stop walking

around it. There you go. 1987 at Lamborghini over at Land Rover. We have many options. Okay.

But what I've got on screen here is a Discovery three. So this was known in North America as the

LR three, okay, built from 2005 to 2009. And I want you to know that this was a clean sheet

redesign. And I'm picking the LR three as peak Land Rover, okay, because this introduced the

integrated body on frame design, which combined the monocoque and ladder frame chassis together

in one vehicle. And again, it was clean sheet. This was starting from scratch. And their initial

sales estimation was about 27,000 vehicles. Okay. And in its run from 05 to 09,

they sold over 50,000 of these. You saw them everywhere. Everybody chose this. It was highly

praised. I think of all the boxy styling that Land Rover is. There's some nice things to look at

here. It was clean. It was professional. There's relatable shapes. You look at that rear corner

of the glass, the rear behind the B pillar, that rear glass for the rear passengers and that little

notch is parallel to the notch in the taillight little tiny all the way at the back, nice little

details. Yes, very boxy, but also very clean and for its time very modernized. This I hate to say

this. This was the one that the rich guys with the Range Rover bought their daughter.

This is that you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And I also hate to say this, but these were not

known to be reliable. Yeah, there were problems. The automatic transmissions didn't want to shift

or had very rough changes. This was solved by replacing the fluid a few times or resetting

the software. Early Discovery threes had a Hitachi compressor for the air suspension.

And that failed a lot. And they were replaced later with AMK units. And it's expensive to swap

one over because the computer also needs to be reprogrammed at the same time. Perfect. Because

the car is so heavy, the brakes and rubber parts of the suspension wear very quickly.

Sunroofs can leak. The brake lights switch can break. That's a cheap and easy fix. However,

and the electronic parking brake can seize usually from not being used. The solve is to drive it,

but it's also expensive and time consuming to replace that electronic parking brake. And if you

were to ever buy one, you need a huge stack of receipts for maintenance and only get the V8.

No to the six. Only the V8. No to that diesel V6. Yeah, there were problems with them. But

I love that people bought on styling and they are and were very capable. Yeah, of course. Yeah,

I saw these everywhere. I agree. It's almost like every practically everyone bought them.

And you know what? I do feel like people definitely use them. They were off-roaded,

they were used. A lot of problems. But I think this really speaks to Lambert because now

tell me the difference between the Rangy and the Valar and all of their product lineup.

They've all started to blend. They all kind of look the same. And I think this started it out with

some neat details. The disco is cool. But again, you see a Range Rover going by and you think now

which one of the Ranges is that? I can't, I don't know. This one you knew and it didn't look like

anything on the road. That's very good. I'm going to jump back a little further in my time machine.

As I was digging around in Land Rover, Range Rover history, I found 95 when these two vehicles are

not only hugely sought out, but I just think they really are peak Land Rover. First off is the Defender

90 from the 90s. It is super boxy, super Land Rover, Range Rover does a Wrangler. And I knew

somebody that had the 110 version of this in LA for a year and he got rid of it. He was in love

with it the day he sold it, but he got rid of it because every person was offering him money for it.

And finally, the price got so big, he was like, I just have to sell this thing.

Did he get a 911 after that? He didn't. But he just was constantly offered more and more money

until finally he was like, well, that price is good enough and he sold it. Everybody has that

number. Exactly. So here's the Defender 90. But the other one is the Land Rover, Range Rover of the

era. This is just, this is the iconic one of the 90s. You think Land Rover, Range Rover, I don't

care what they look like now. This is what they look like in my head. It's just that era. And also

the difference between the look of these two things, one of them is the rugged like Wrangler

use. It's got to be muddy all the time. Dogs in the back, you know, shotgun bent on the fender.

It's that it's like this one is filthy and we may never clean it. And the Range Rover looks like

all you're going to do is go to a polo match and then a nice dinner. I can see that. I mean,

you can get it muddy, but I can see this is more like, don't get it muddy. Exactly. But you got

you could and it can still go through a jungle. But this is when these two are very different.

And yet they're both very Range Rover, very Land Rover. So I have to go 1995 for these two. And I

think for me, that's peak. This is the one. Wasn't that the Seinfeld joke where people can see your

hips while you're driving because of the tall glass and the tall glass? Yes. And also, I mean,

they've had it forever. It's got the split rear tailgate. They used a later versions of these

to film a lot of the top gear stuff because these were the ones that everybody had that

loved and they could break the tailgate and they could have a guy kneeling in the back with the

big camera on his shoulder. That's how they shot all that stuff. So this is the Range Rovers that

we know. And I still feel like this is what it looks like, even though I see a new one and go,

Oh, that's right. They don't look like this box anymore. Really don't. Not at all. You don't

know what they're not even close. Is that I don't know sport Valar. I don't I don't really know.

In 2012, Lexus brought out a concept at the North American International Auto Show

called the LC. It was a concept that everybody unanimously said, Yes, please build that. Yes.

That is gorgeous. So what I'm showing here is that 2012 concept, because I want you to see

how close the production version car is to the concept. It's kind of amazing. It may be one of

the closest ones I've ever seen. Yes, the fact they held some of the lines. You're not seeing a

lot of shut lines because again, it's it's pre production. It's very concept. But yeah, look

how close these are. It is kind of amazing to keep that concept. And here it is still on sale,

even today. Yeah, yeah. It's been a nine year run currently for the LC 500. They've had convertible.

They've had hybrid. We've driven all of those versions unanimously. It's sort of the GT car

that nobody thinks about. It's really quite a brilliant car. Now it's fairly heavy. And it's not

the highest performing sports car ever. But you don't buy an LC 500 for that reason. It's a

wonderful highway cruiser eats the miles. Yeah, great sounding V eight, the cliches. Yeah,

ripping silk. It's the whole deal like from the V eight. All the cliches you can imagine for the

sound. It is one of the most beautiful cars Lexus has ever produced. When I think of

peak Lexus, I think of the LC 500 and the LFA. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. From 2010 to 2012,

Lexus built a 4.8 liter V 10 with a 9000 RPM red line. Most of this car, about 70% of this car

is carbon fiber. To my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, that this is one of the

cars built ever built with the most carbon fiber components as far as road cars are concerned.

Road cars got to be way up there. Yeah, yeah, not a race car, but for a road car to have this

many carbon fiber components and the the percentage of carbon fiber used in this thing.

And I'm going to admit, I really didn't appreciate this when it came out. I looked at the hood,

I looked at the little dip in the line here for the side into on the rocker there. Yeah,

rocker way down at the bottom. Oh, yeah. It dipped slightly before it comes back. Interesting. Yeah.

It wasn't German. It wasn't. Oh, sure. Very severe. And then it turns a radius and then

continues on up. It had a little bit of a motion to it. It flourishes a bit. Yeah.

And I thought, was that a mistake? Did the designer like, did you bump his elbow? Like,

what happened right here? Well, I always thought the gap in the hood was odd. It always looked

like an unfinished shut line. Hood was odd. This particular styling element that was

the body of the car at the rear quarter window that overlaid the glass for the purpose of,

I couldn't tell you. Just a point. Looks cool. Yeah, it does look cool and a triple exhaust in

the back. Fans right here at the back, you could see the cooling fans. Yeah, I didn't appreciate

this car. I admit when this came out, I just thought, Lexus, what are you doing? And then the

more I've heard about it, we have not driven one our friends at Savage Geese have and they did

a brilliant job on really doing a deep deep dive for this car. This is a special benchmark car for

Lexus. It is just the fact that they thought we're going to build the car in a clean room.

And we're going to put all this carbon fiber. We're going to build this V10 and we're going to

put every bit of our know how and this is the tip of the spear. The way these cars had to be shipped

was also an engineering feat. The way they were boxed up and shipped to customers around the

world was almost unheard of the care that you had to take. It wasn't just car on transporter.

They built special containers to ship this thing. Unbelievable. So the LC is sort of like

the poor man's LFA. It is still get a little piece of Lexus out of the LFA. The LFA, there's one that

comes to our local cars and coffee now and then we've met the owner. The LFA when it shows up,

it has presence. It doesn't have crazy styling, but it has presence versus your LC you've got there.

That is a timeless design like the E type. That's going to be beautiful forever.

I don't know that the LFA I would call beautiful. The LC 500 I would say is beautiful.

The LFA though has presence and purpose in the way that it looks and it really is very cool.

I never see it in this blue. There's also the Nurburgring edition in orange,

but usually you see them in white and black and silver. I think that's true.

I did not go with this era, but I got close and that is I think Peek Lexus is 2001 and let me show

you why. I mean, I know they came out in the 80s, but in 2001, think about these icons in the lineup.

The IS was doing its first generation and you could get this with a straight six Toyota motor

and a six speed. That's true. It may have been a five, but it was a manual with the watch face gauges

and I didn't appreciate that at the time and over time I've come to realize this was the

peak of the IS. This is so cool. They came out and really were this is the one place at the time

they were aiming for BMW. The three series. This was the three series was such an icon in the early

2000s and they were aiming for it. And so this IS existed. Of course, the LS existed. It was in its

second gen at this point and it was still like the car that nobody could believe how good it was.

People weren't surprised it was as good like they were when it first came out. It wasn't that

surprising, but it was like Lexus is still doing that at such a high level. The LS existed

and the RX 300 as much as I want to load this. This is the beginning of a revolution.

Oh, I'll load that for you. Fine. Lexus starts selling this in 01. Yeah. And I don't think I'm

over stating to say they changed the industry. I think you're right. Everybody decided they

had to have a five seat egg. And now we have nothing but five seat eggs everywhere. So I do

blame Lexus and also praise Lexus for this because you've done something here that has changed the

market in the same way the LS changed the market. That changed how luxury cars were built and what

was tolerated. And this changed what people that don't care about cars much everywhere wanted to

drive. I hate to say it that way. But because it was a Lexus, they just run forever. These things

still hang on to value. They're still making variants of the RX. But these old early 2000s ones

are still out there running. This was Lexus proving they can introduce something to the market.

It's going to be valuable. It's going to retain its value. It's going to be reliable. And it just

works. I don't like these. But they were a revolution. And this is all 2001 at Lexus.

They are throwing down. But guess what else was 2001 at Lexus? My favorite Lexus ever.

The concept car from Minority Report was also 2001. You like this thing? I love it. You do.

It's my favorite one. Really? It's my favorite Lexus design ever when this showed up on screen.

And granted, if you see it in person, it's a car for the movie.

True. There's a lot wrong with it in person.

True. But on camera, in this futuristic world, to have the coolest car in the movie of a futuristic

world be a Lexus. Okay. All it needed to do was look cool. It didn't need to work.

You don't have to. Yeah. Okay. There's no ergonomics getting in and out. So the window

dropping door. Exactly. The whole point is can Lexus design something that's the coolest thing

in the film? And the resounding answer was, yes, they did. I liked the movie at the time.

But I remember being actually like removed from the movie and being like, wait, wait, wait,

that's a Lexus? Like in the middle of watching the movie the first time. So kudos to Lexus for 2001.

We come down to Lincoln. Yes. When you think of Lincoln,

peak Lincoln. I wonder if you and I are going to go the exact same place.

I took a pop culture approach. Okay. I came up with one Lincoln. Okay.

And that is the 2007 navigator. And the reason I went here is because

as cool as suicide doors are from the early sixties,

when you look at pop culture, when Lincoln really started to become kind of cool,

it was when the first navigator came out, there are 76 lyrics and 104 artists

matching navigator in their songs in pop culture. Really?

That's a lot. That's too many. That made an influence. It made an impact for sure. Yeah.

And those artists, those musical artists made an impact on all of their audience. So therefore,

everyone listening to Little Troy, to Missy Elliott, to R Kelly, to Rishi, to Sauce Money,

to Outcast. Sure. All of those lyrics. Everybody went navigator. Gotta have one. Yeah. Okay.

Lincoln, the navigator, and then all subsequent versions have gotten bigger and faster and,

you know, more luxurious. And they've kind of looked at what Cadillac's doing.

But with this, I still think Lincoln needs to do what Cadillac has done with their V-Series.

Lincoln needs to come out with performance and luxury. It can't just be luxury. It can't just be,

we made our cars for music videos. I still think they need to take it further. We made a nicer

interior version of a Ford product. Yeah. And that's all it was. Yeah, for sure. And that's

why when I buy that, why just get a gussied up expedition. That's all it is. But then it appeared

in pop culture like crazy and everybody picked up on it. And so for Lincoln, the brand, because

everything after that, do you even know what is currently on sale? I mean, I'll give you a hint.

It's called the Corsair. And the Aviator. And yeah. Yeah. No, that is no. Okay. But when

Navigator entered the pop culture, the Zeitgeist for 2007 and many artists who you know and have

listened to and Navigator was in the lyrics and Navigator Navigator suddenly it's it's cooler

than the Escalade. It did have that brief moment. You're right. Brief moment when it was cooler

than the Escalade. You're right. You're right. And then fell away. Interesting. Absolutely.

That's very good. I think you nailed that. I'm going to go somewhere else. We did not go to

the same place. Okay, good. I'm going to go somewhere else. And my caption for this is too

soon. It's the 1961 convertible Lincoln Continental Suicide Door. They are sorry. Don't get me

wrong. They're super cool. But here's the reality. You go up to the average person and you ask them

to put a model name after the car name Lincoln. Tell me a Lincoln something continental,

continental, right? Everybody's going to say continental. This got a pop culture resurgence

with the TV show entourage on HBO. That's a good point. Yes. But yes, Lincoln peaks with the

assassination of JFK. That's just because it is so burned into history. This car is connected to

that moment. And it's connected to things we don't do anymore, which is huge four seat convertibles.

It has four doors as being a convertible. They are suicide doors. There's a ton of things here

that do not happen anymore. These have been remade a ton of times. They've been in music videos.

They've been dropped, lowered, put on bags, everything. But you think Lincoln, you hear

continental and then you're right to JFK. Yeah, it's true. Maybe it's too soon. Maybe it's awful.

But I almost feel bad for Lincoln because I feel like they cannot get away from this in the same

way, not as tragically, but in the same way that Jaguar can't get past the E type. Lincoln can't

get past the 1960s Lincoln Continental Convertible. They really can't. This is probably why they don't

build cars anymore. Possibly. I mean, they had that continental briefly. By the way, if you want to

be nasty on a luxury car by a used recent continental, nasty styling, fine. The MKZ nasty. Oh, yes. I

agree with that. No, but the the recent Lincoln Continental, those are available for a song. They

did like German luxury car depreciation. They're way down there. You can get a lot of luxury car

for your money. But I just have to say, sorry, Lincoln, it's the JFK car. Okay, that's the icon.

Since you are the resident Lotus experts curious to hear where you will leave the deep dive of

Lotus history to you. Oh, I don't know about that. But keep going. But for Lotus, peak Lotus,

I think it's been fairly recently. What was it? 49? We're way back. Way back. And then the Lotus

seven is still being made by people to this day. And that's a car for 50s. That's true. All of those.

It's got incredible history. But what is pinnacle Lotus engineering pinnacle lightweight combined

with great power and beautiful styling. I don't think we have to look further than the recent

era, the Elise that you have starting in 2005, the Avora GT, and the Amira. I think all three

of these cars represent peak Lotus, Lotus at their most their highest powers. And I include

everything. It's not just handling. It's not just the Yeah, do something with Lotus handling

batch. Sure. Sure. I mean, this particular car, what an incredible car, the Avora GT, the Elise

is for me, the brand encapsulated. There have been some great ones, some great ones. Don't get me

wrong. Yes. Yes. I think things really gelled stylistically speaking. I think this is the

prettiest car in a long time of all cars and the prettiest car on sale right now. There isn't a

prettier car. I'm going to agree with you, but I actually owed me a mirror. So it's hard for me

to say, but yes, I agree with you. I really don't. There isn't a Ferrari, not a McLaren,

not a Mercedes, no Porsches. This is the prettiest of all cars right now. I agree with you.

They're peaking right now. And the Elise in the Avora GT sort of led to this, that thinking.

We've already discussed Lotus and what they're doing with Lotus for me. Yes. In the future.

Lotus for me, Lotus for you, Paul. Who knows? It's like a BYD, but for Lotus,

it's great. Build your dreams, Paul, at Lotus for you. The sun is not setting on the, anyway,

it's not a metaphor of anything. I just, what a beautiful, great power handling that is

refreshingly different from everything else. Yes, it is. On the road. And I think those two

cars led up to where the Amir is now. So Elise leading through the Avora GT, which I do really

love. It's a great special car. There's some raw things that are sort of like, yeah, that's a bit

kid car-ish, but it's Lotus. Okay. But as I've said before, the reason I skip over the Avora

is because I have an Elise. I have a raw car from Lotus. Right, right. It makes sense to have the

Amir. It's the much more usable car. And I cannot believe I have both at all and get to say that

sentence. But anyway, yeah, I'm actually going to stay pretty modern time as well, but not quite

this modern. Because again, I'm trying to pick a year when you can walk in. Okay, here's the

problem with Lotus. Lotus has had a lot of really good cars, but they were selling like

a car at a time. They don't really sell a lot of things at the same time.

A Lotus for you? A Lotus for me? Yeah, just a Lotus for you. That's it. We have one.

That's where that came from. That's where that came from. And look, and I can't ignore the seven,

which I don't have a picture of, but I can't ignore the seven, which becomes the modern day

catering and a lot of other things. That is probably the longest running most iconic Lotus

shape. Okay, it's like this undercurrent, a lot of a lot of other things. I think

that the peak when you could walk into a dealership, and I can't believe both these

cars were for sale at the exact same time, is 2004. And I say that because elsewhere outside

the US, it was the first year you could buy the series two Elise that became the American Elise,

that was 04. 04 as an 05 model, it started being sold in the US. But also in 2004 was the last year

for the Esprit. Sweet looking car. And after the Esprit, as much as I like Myamira, Myamira is not

competing in people's minds with Ferraris. It's not competing with Lamborghinis. No. The Esprit

did in people's minds. I thought 03 was the last year for

apparently 04 was when the last few were being sold. Really? I cannot believe that the

series two Elise is being introduced because the Elise was introduced in the 90s. Okay,

and the series ones are very cool and they're even lighter and they're even lower power,

and they're even more raw, which is crazy. But the series two is often called the federalized

Elise. That's the one where they were making it for the US. Okay, so it had it was just a little

bit nicer and a little few more airbags and those kind of things. Advanced smart airbags.

Seriously. But after the Esprit ends, Lotus has not gotten back to making a hypercar,

supercar actual competitor. As much as I like Myamira, as much as I get that experience out of

it, you could go out when the Esprit was being sold and hold your head up high that you bought

one instead of a Ferrari or instead of a Lamborghini and it felt like parody. Even though it didn't

cost the same. It felt like parody. Okay, keep in mind, the R8 hasn't come out yet when this

is true. But are you only putting it in the category for the ones with the twin turbo V8?

Not necessarily. I'm saying four cylinder. When the first came out, the Esprit was like great car,

super car with a four cylinder. But the Esprit always had that iconic feel. It did. Yeah. Okay.

And Lotus doesn't have a car that exists in that area now. I'm not talking about the Avaya. The

Avaya, I mean, I know it's not vapor where it really exists, but it's just it's like a weird one

off. Okay. Yeah. This was your hyper car, your super car from Lotus, and they haven't made one

sense. Oh, four, they have a super car and they have a sports car. And unfortunately, we're not

back there. Though I do have to say I like your choices because I do love Myamira very much.

You're already on those cars. The Elise is superb and such a moment in time. I'm going to start with

Lucid. Do it because I think Lucid is pretty simple. Fortunately, pretty simple right now.

They sell two cars. They sell the air and they sell the gravity. Great. That's what they sell.

They sell those two cars, air and gravity. A couple of years ago, they didn't have the

gravity on sell yet. It was just the air. They've been around just short enough time that I think

we just have to say right now for Lucid. But I might steal your thunder here a little bit.

Okay. Because I am going to say one thing. I saw gravity on the road this week here locally.

Oh, you did? I did. I saw gravity. And while they are cool, they are also just a minivan.

It's just a minivan. The excitement about the gravity. Yes, the excitement about the gravity

among automotive journalists has been hysterical to me and to you as well. Well, because this is

a minivan shape. It's a minivan shape without the useful doors. That's what boggles my mind.

You've made the useful shape of a minivan, which has never been sexy. And you took away the one

reason you really want to buy a minivan. And that is the enormous hatch opening and the sliding

doors. The doors. Yes. As much as I am not a minivan buyer, as we've said before, nothing

out minivans a minivan. And most of that is, Hey, the big whole side of the thing just slides out

of the way. And the kids trump in muddy and dirty and nobody cares. Kids and dogs and you can hit

the button and that's what we're for. So I am laughing because there has been so much press

about the gravity being revolutionary. And you and I both keep walking around at an auto show going,

isn't it just a minivan? And yes, is the answer. Yes, it is. I'm glad they have product diversification.

Agreed. And I'm including Lucid here because with their backing, the dollars that are backing them.

Yes. It feels like they'll be around. It doesn't feel like, well, they're not selling too well.

And so we'll pull the plug and we need more cash. But no, the cash is going to be there for a long

time. They've invested in building factories. So it feels like this is kind of the beginning.

And you're right. It is peak Lucid is right now because it's the only time for Lucid.

But there is one particular car that I had to reeducate myself on it is the Air Sapphire.

And I went back and looked at all the stats and specs for this car. It's unbelievable.

It's staggering. This is a quarter million dollar car. The 2024 Air Sapphire has 1,234 horsepower.

It has 1,430 pound feet of torque. It has an 8.9 second quarter mile. This thing will lay waste

to all of the bikes. Of course, at 01X is still quicker. It's giving it a run for its money.

Put three people in it with you and challenge the ZR1X next to you.

But the one number that I didn't know about this car. We put 200 mile an hour cars in a different

category. This is a 205 mile an hour top speed car. I didn't know that this was a genuine 200 mile

an hour car. I knew it was quick. I knew it had a lot of horsepower. I didn't know if it was speed

limit. I didn't quite realize that this is a 200 mile an hour car. When we say that, we think

Ferraris, McLarens, all the Bugattis, all the top end stuff. 200 mile an hour. Wow, cool.

Right here. And we've driven the Air, not this version. We've driven the Air. It is a superb

electric car. If you're in the market for an electric car and you can get a Lucid, if you can

get a used Lucid, you've got a great deal. Yes, and those prices are continuing to come down.

Like them a lot. They're very, very good. It's a different experience. There's so much great design

and the driving experience is actually kind of interesting. It's a big heavy sedan, but Lucid

makes a 200 mile an hour car is the headline error. I didn't know that. I read that genuinely.

Not to mention some of the highest range of any EV. Yes, that is astounding. It's very, very good.

I saw gravity two weeks ago and it was parked by the guardrail on the side of the highway.

You're looking pretty grounded there. All the jokes, I was trying to work on it. I'm still

working it out here, but you know, he looks stranded. I was like, gravity, the thing, it's real.

Being held down. Minivan. Okay. It's a minivan. It's an EV minivan without the good doors. Without

next time when we hope to get through the entire letter M. We have to get further than that.

We have to she Mazda. Oh, no. Many. Are we going to get there? I don't know. We're trying. We're

going to get through the alphabet. We have dedicated ourselves to this. It's going to happen. Thanks

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I know you're not surprised to hear that we have track days coming up. Hooked on driving has lots

of track days nationwide, tons of them happening. The 14th and 15th of this month, March,

Ridge Motorsports Park that is just outside Seattle, it is a phenomenal track. Our Pacific

Northwest is doing a two-day event there and you should come because that track is awesome.

Then March 19th, that's a Thursday down at Sonoma. We're having a first event at Sonoma for

this calendar year. It's such a great track and people just come to that track in hordes. I love

it. It's really cool. And then you and I are traveling near the end of the month, the 21st

and 22nd of the month. That's a Saturday, Sunday at Ozark Spring Speed Fest at Ozark International

Raceway. We've actually never been to that track. I keep hearing great things about it.

It's funny, we only hear two things about that track. One is, oh, you have to come. It's amazing.

And the other one is, oh, if you're a first-timer, be careful. Be careful. So I'm very, very excited

to be there. That's going to be really awesome. And then of course, we do still have a few spaces

left for our two marquee events for the year. And I'm not kidding. I'm not exaggerating. They're

both almost sold out. Circuit of the Americas, Coda, that is May 30th and 31st down in Austin,

Texas. We cannot believe how fast that is selling. And I think Novice is like a space or two. If

you're a first-timer, you better sign up now. B Group has a bit more space. B Group do okay.

B, C and D have space all of the above, but it's selling really fast. Make your plans to come to

Coda. We love to have you with us. This is the year. It's going to be so good. We don't know what's

going to go on with Coda for 20, 27 and beyond. You've heard things. We've heard things, but this

is the year. Make your plans. We'll be there absolutely. And yeah, it's such a superb track

to learn. It's a real favorite. It's rewarding. There's speed. There's technicality. It's a great,

I mean, set up one track. It's such a good track. And then, of course, I have to say it again,

pilgrimage trip, it's going to be amazing this year. It's a little longer than normal. We've got

two days on spa, one day on the ring. It is an actual dedicated track day on the ring, which is

how you want to drive the ring. I promise you. That is August 2nd through the 9th. We have a

good group coming. Some people are ringing spouses. It's going to be really, really cool. It's going

to be spouse-friendly and driver heaven, honestly. You have to come. There's like honestly, while

I'm talking right now, I think there's one space left. Yeah. So sign up now. It is available. And

we'd love to have you with us. The best term was when Ted said it. It's the once in a lifetime

trip you should take every year. It is epic. And we've got multiple people that are coming back

again this year, including Ted, which is good. But we're going and it's going to be awesome. So

that is in August. And you can sign up now at everydaydriver.com, adventures tab for pilgrimage.

But then everything else we've talked about is all hooked on driving.com. And we'd love for you

to be with us. Chris writes to us from West Virginia. He's been listening and watching

quite a long time. Chris, thank you so much. Really cool. Six years on from his first listen

of this podcast, he's lining up as first to drive in his family group because Chris is 16 years old.

So wait a minute. So that means he's been listening since he was 10. How did you find this podcast

at 10? I'm glad. I'm very glad. And pass it on to friends and family. But he's been listening

for six years. He's now 16. And college dual enrollment is fast approaching. My gosh,

you've got to be smart as well. Man, oh man. So you're the first of the kids in your family to

drive. So we can all I can I can this feels personal. I know it does. I know it does.

At such a young age, Chris writes it can be overwhelming to look at the wider car market.

And yes, it is. That's why we're doing peak. I'm just kidding. Did you listen to me?

Hence the peak. We had peak. Yeah. Uh huh. He says the budget caps out at $15,000,

but it needs to be a very nice or low mileage example for anything over 11 grand needs to

be manual to prove to his family that he's attentive to his driving a specific request

from his parents, which he doesn't disagree with. He's very comfortable driving a stick.

But this is he says a purchase under 18 years old. He says it's not his money.

He said simply speaking, it's not my money. His mom wants it to be to have a reasonable

amount of driver side airbags. Sure. Understand. Yeah. And he doesn't disagree with that. But

he says the requirement isn't friendly to most cars that are pre Y2K. Just think of

you get a car that's way older than you. Yeah, that's true. And he's right. I mean,

look, I fully agree with your parents. I applaud your parents for saying you need to be driving

a manual. That's what we did with our son and he boat. He's having a great time. In fact,

we're having to like try to get him out of his car, which is a nice problem. I just love that

you're like, we need dinner and groceries. He's gone and he's earlier today. It worked. The parenting

worked earlier. We were going somewhere and we, he was like, I'd like to take my car too. It was

like, sure, fine, whatever. That's awesome. So it's very funny. So he's loving it. So I love the

fact that your parents would like you to have a manual transmission. It's very cool, Chris.

I also appreciate the fact that it's their money. But you have created a dilemma because you want

manual transmission, but good modern airbags. And those aren't necessarily at the same era of cars.

He doesn't need enough power to knock himself out. That's his term. Love it. Okay. Good. Just

needs to be fun and a manual. He says the car would only be used for driving to his rural

school campus or an internship. He's not worried about the manual is a long term decision. Although

he does say he wants to own this for upwards of five to 10 years. Okay. You're going to get used

to starting to wrench on your car, maybe learning how to do oil changes and maybe a transmission

rebuild here and there and just kidding. Hopefully not. Yes. So in the area where he lives, they

only get about one to two mild snows a year in the area of the DMV says DC, Maryland, Virginia,

and just barely West Virginia. So no special catering to the elements. No problem there. He

says what he's considered up to this point for reasons inexplicable, even to himself,

he had his heart set on a very specific and undesirable car. The 2007 to 2009 Nissan Altima

3.5 SE manual. The v6 engine is used in lots of Nissan, Nismo, Renault, Alpine performance cars

and race cars. 35 DEV six. That is the one that winds up in lots of places and it wound up in

the Altima. I'll be, I'll admit, you've educated me, Chris. I didn't even think about that car. I

looked it up today and was like, Oh my gosh, there it is. Yeah. Not many were built. Most are in

bad condition. Otherwise, he's looked at the 2001 to 2005 Lexus IS 300 part of the Lexus there.

It is hard to find those in manual. Chris, you're right. Yeah. GT 86 chassis, the Hawkeye

WRX Hawkeye. Hawkeye era. Yes, not the bug eye. Yep. And even your beloved Sabur 92 X Todd,

he just can't, he can't find those cars anywhere. Yeah. They're hard. He's also concerned about

reliability reports on those latter two cars past 150 or 200,000 miles. But whatever this ends up

being, he's not as concerned as how expensive insurance might be because their family rates are

just outrageous. That's going to be crazy. Period. Yeah. Just writing that off and hello to Chris's

family because I'm sure you're watching all this and about to watch our recommendations. He says

as long as it's not a Mustang or Challenger levels of bait for insurance to chomp down on,

he says good stuff. Most of the cars that he has mentioned are pre 2010s because he's not afraid

of working under the hood. He just can't be nickel and dimed in the long run. Boy, do I have

options for you. I've got a few good ones too. I've got I want to talk about a couple of the

ones he's picked out and then I have four others and I landed on one that I think might be my

favorite right before we started recording. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, jumping right in, Chris.

It's Todd Sun's car. This is the actual car my son drives. Yes. That car, the 2005 Mini Cooper S

R 53 Mini Cooper S. What a great car. I think you should absolutely go look at these. They are fun.

They are after the year 2000. They are airbags, manual, fun to drive. He wants more than two

seats too. It does all of the things. And this is the second high mileage Mini that is really

well taken care of and is driven a lot and runs. You're right. I mean, you know, I hope it keeps

being driven a lot and keeps running. But yeah, I'm trying to allay your fears, Chris, about the

Mini. I mean, you could go get yourself case swapped original Mini and go nuts with horsepower and

look at that thing. That has to be fun to drive about 10 years ago. I forgot that. Remember

this thing? No, I don't. But that's amazing. Yes, that has to be so much fun. Can you imagine just

I can't the front tire just melt. Probably don't go anywhere. They just melt. That's really cool.

I love it. Good. So I just thought that as an outlier. But also you'll notice these three cars

are from our $12,000 challenge. The 12 K and under cars that just came out recently at the end of

2025, the Mini Cooper S, the Ford Fiesta ST. I mean, if you spend a lot, if you spend 12 grand,

you can probably get the nicest Fiesta ST out there and their superb, great. I'm great on the

longevity for for high mileage. Take care of these. They're loads of fun. And the 3.8 I want you to

look at the 2015 3.8 Hyundai Genesis coupe. These were built all the way up until 2016.

But the Genesis coupe is fun to drive all manual gas mileage. Well,

depending on how you drive, they're not all great. But the Fiesta is pretty decent. But all of all

three of these, I will not recommend an RX 7 or a Camaro to you, even though those two cars were

part of that film. But the first three cars in this film, I want you to go watch that. If you

haven't already, these particular cars, I think speak directly to your story, directly to what

you want. And I think they would all be fairly friendly on insurance and fairly friendly with

the parents. I think the parental unit approves of all three of these. It's good. I hope I like it.

And they're all they're all more than two seats. So he's done that too. One or two seats, airbags,

manual, fun to drive, fairly modern. I think any of these could work. You have drive homework,

my friend. That's good. I have a few four years. Well, Chris, first off, I'm going to start with

a couple that you've already mentioned. And I want to circle back on them and talk about them.

One, of course, is the WRX manual with the Hawkeye actually brought up a Hawkeye picture here.

Yes, these are hard to find. The problem with these is, is the one you can afford the one you

want to buy. That's the problem because these, they only get down into like the 12 grand range

when it's the one you don't want, like they're beat on. Okay. And that's actually the beauty of the

Saab 9-2X. If you can find them, because those aren't known about, and you got to look nationwide.

That's the key thing. They were like modded into oblivion. People don't know about them. And so

the problem with it with a used WRX below 12 grand is that might not be a car you want to own.

It might be more work than you'd like, because these have known issues, especially with high

miles. So I do understand that. But I wanted to show that I think you need to take a serious look

at a first gen 86, the FRS or the BRZ, because this has the proper dynamics you want to learn.

You've already brought it up. Power wise, your parents are going to be thrilled. It's not some

big heavy duty car. And you as a person driving manual are going to have to really drive the

manual to get all the power that it has. Then you're going to chase the torque dip and you're

going to mod it to oblivion. But, but you can actually, you can actually learn to drive manual

better as a result of having one of these. And the dynamics are perfect. And it is, you admitted

it. It's just slightly enough, more than two seats that it might get by. Plus it's a fairly modern

car. So fairly modern safety tech. So this is a really good option for you. And I want you

to take a serious look at it. Take a good test drive. This strikes me as the kind of car you're

going to love and your parents are going to be like, I don't know. And parents, I'm going to tell

you right now. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because if this had twice as much power as it does,

I would side with Chris's parents and be like, I don't know. But with the power that it has,

I think this is a fantastic choice. And it isn't a small mom as a Miata. And I say that

because my wife was like Miata is a bridge too far. She would have been open to this. My wife

would have been. Okay, Miata was a bridge too far. So anyway, so there's those two Chris that

you already talked about. But now let's talk about three others and a little bit of overlap here.

Mini Cooper S the R 53. I did not take a picture of my son, but you included it, which is good. So

R 53 many these are awesome. And I love them. And they're super charged. And again,

they seem to run defiantly against type. Let's hope it continues to charge super cheap super

awesome super fun. Yes. Also the fiesta ST Paul brought it up your $12,000 gets you a phenomenal

fiesta ST. I really do like these. These these are fun at every speed. But if we're looking and

we're concerned about okay, it's a turbo it's an ST I have two others for you that donned on me.

Two other really good hatchbacks with good usable space

that are fun to drive, but are not first glance enthusiast cars. And the first one is

the Honda fit. The fit fits. Look, I'm actually showing the earlier 2000s model that I will

admit is just not attractive. But they refine this again a little more attractive. This has a

great six speed in it. A fantastic chassis. We've known many people that track these and

then turn them into race cars because they are such a good dynamic car to drive tons of space

tons of space you want to take friends you want to take you want to haul random stuff.

The Honda fits got you. So this is just a lovable properly well put together car with a manual.

It's not as interesting as some of the others but this is just a workhorse and these things run

forever. So Honda fit and then the other one that is kind of a wild card for me but it is also

my favorite because it is the most modern and it does everything we're talking about. My concern

is that 15 grand top you've got is the bottom of these. So I don't know that you're going to find

one but I got to go there anyway. Current Gen Corolla XSE with a manual. That's great. We drove

one of these when they first came out before there were even rumors of the GR Corolla and you

said pretty definitively if they would just make this all wheel drive 300 horsepower they would

have a winner on their hands and that was almost the exact recipe of the GR Corolla. This is not

all wheel drive. This is not 300 horsepower. It has enough power for a first time driver but it is a

2020 and newer. This is a new car so it has all the latest safety tech and they only sold it manual

for a few years and I looked online Auto Tempest nationwide and I found a few selling for 15.

I found a lot selling for 17, 18 and the top of the market is just over 20. So these are just

above your budget but if you are really thinking long term this gets you a much newer car with

good dynamics, a good chassis, a good manual and modern tech and safety. So I can't ignore it.

Once it dropped into my brain I was like wait a minute you are the perfect buyer for one of these

Corollas if the budget will allow and it may not. You said it. I'll say it a different way and that

is of all the new cars this can be justified for paying two, three thousand dollars more parents

because you're not going to be wrenching on this. It's so much newer. It's going to have the newest

tech and it's going to be driving much longer for sure. Upgrade the tires and

phenomenal car. Really, really good. So I hope that helps you Chris because you got a lot of

stuff to drive and parents I hope that helps. Chris thank you for writing. Really appreciate

you listening and watching since you were 10. You were 10. It's crazy. I love it. That's great.

It's really good. And every day driver, tvedgmail.com, topic Tuesdays, car debates, car conclusions too.

And now we have a car debate that is completely unlike the car debate we were just in. It's

the opposite end of the spectrum. I want to meet David in New York. I want to understand David's

story because I don't understand quite exactly what's going on here. He is a car guy through and

through and through. He likes manual transmission and he lives in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, Manhattan.

Okay. Like the worst possible place on the world to have a lots of cars to take care of and be

everything is manual and that is David's way to be. David's in an apartment in Brooklyn. He doesn't

have a set commute but he drives to the Bronx 15 miles once or twice a week for business and he

drives 45 minutes to an office on Long Island 50 miles once every two weeks. Okay. Both of these

drives are lousy with traffic and many potholes. But good news. He has lots of cars in their

own manual. Good news. Yeah. Highly relevant. He recently purchased a vacation home on Long

Island 110 miles away. Once he gets past his office, it opens up and gets nice and the new

house itself is surrounded by some of the best country roads he's ever experienced.

All wooded, tight, hilly back roads, 30 miles an hour speed limit.

You sound like B roads in England. They do. Well, also no traffic but plenty of deer. Be careful.

He is married with two kids. His daughter's in college. His son is in high school learning

to drive. He takes the subway a lot so doesn't need to drive day to day. He's six foot three

and if he grows more, he won't fit in David's fleet. I started to say that to my son. My son

has slowed down, which is good, but I keep saying stop by six feet. You'll fit in everything. Yeah.

He's learning on manual transmission in Brooklyn just like his daughter did.

This makes the way that I trained my son to drive manual seem awfully easy.

Come on, kids. They'll drive anywhere and anything. Yes, they will. Here's the fleet.

This is an important sentence. David likes small, lightweight cars from the pre-digital age.

He likes to keep them clean, which is another odd quirk in New York City.

I hope you use Grisgarage products. We hope so, yes. He also includes his parking situation

that is critical when you live in a New York City apartment. In Brooklyn, he has access to two

indoor garage spots and street parking with an alternate side if you can fit. On Long Island,

he's got one big car garage that he can squeeze two of his small cars in. He will be building a

three car garage with a lift for the Long Island house soon, plus a driveway. Just okay. How do

you make this work? Plenty of work. I want to know what David does for living. It's part of

what I want to know. I want to know how on earth you're making all this work. But that's a side

note. It's not about budget. It's about finding something to add to this fleet, which I can't,

we haven't gone through the fleet yet. I can't believe this fleet, but I have heard so many

people complain about the cost of parking a car indoors in New York. It's almost a duplicate

of putting a roof over your own head. He has two covered spaces and the rest of the fleet

rotates the side of the street from the one they're not street sweeping. So he's finding street

parking for the rest of the fleet and he's keeping two in a garage and he's paying for the two in

the garage. There's the Long Island house is now going to have more garage space. This is madness.

Great madness. I mean, we're thrilled to have you with us and you are our people. I want to

meet you David, but this is, this is crazy. We're talking about a 1990, this is all currently in

his fleet. Notice he didn't send history. Did you notice this? He didn't even send history. He was

like, this is all current events. The whole thing is current events. You're right. You're right.

1993 original first gen Miata five speed 73,000 miles. He's had it for 30 years. It's been in

the family since new. He says it's everything a Miata is supposed to be. He has a 2012 that

seems awfully modern Porsche Cayenne six speed with 65,000 miles. You bought one of the rare

second gen Cayenne's with a manual. You have that right now. He has that Cayenne. He has

that Cayenne. That is the family car. We've talked about it. Yes. You are the guy with one.

2018 Fiat 500 Abarth his second 500. His first one was not an Abarth. He has an Abarth now

five speed 14,000 miles. Loves this thing. Loves the fact that it has an obnoxious exhaust noise.

He's like, I know I wake people up. I turn along in the morning and I'm fine with it.

Loves it. Loves that thing. A 1987 Suzuki Samurai. When's the last time I said that?

When did we put those words together? Have we done that in a thousand episodes of this podcast?

I have not ever seen. I haven't seen one in years. I had a buddy that had one in college

and I haven't seen one since he got rid of it promptly after college 1987 Suzuki Samurai. He

has one soft top. I just cannot believe this exists. He says, look, it's terrible. He acknowledges

that it's terrible. Takes forever to get to 60, but he says, if you get it outside the city

and you get it onto a beach, it's dune buggy. Then it comes into its own. He says he can fit the

Miata and the Suzuki in one car garage, one space. Of course you can because they're both tiny.

Yes, I love it. He likes tiny cars and last but not least, and there's a whole I will spare you

the diet, the separate diatribe. But last but not least is the 1987 Honda Prelude.

This is the car from remember when so he has bought it with a friend. They bought it and

they just kind of have it as the nostalgia car. But the funny part of this is remember the parking

issues somehow he's ended up responsible for parking it. Yeah, how did that work? That's

happening as well. He mentions in passing that he does have another car in the fleet. That's not

really his car. It's a 2019 Mini Cooper two door. That's an automatic because that's his

daughter's car at college. Once she got out of high school, he said, okay, I'll get you

something else with it with an auto. What do you want? She wanted a Mini Cooper with an auto.

So it's not actually in the fleet. It's like family adjacent, but it is her car.

Then David writes he wants to buy something else. He's going to have more garage space soon.

He's debated splitting something with his Prelude friend like a Lotus Esprit or maybe an M5,

but that's a different decision because it would involve his buddy who did not write in.

This is just for David. Yes. He's trying to rationalize. Budget is flexible. Dangerous,

he knows, but he likes spending less because it feels more freeing. Who cares about a ding or

a scratch on a used $25,000 car? Yep, I get it. But he says anybody can buy a new 9-11,

but only a genius can find the hidden gem, the price of fun. By the way, his father just bought

a 2024 manual 9-11S. I love that he says anybody can buy a 9-11. By the way, my dad did. Yes.

He actually says any idiot can buy a new 9-11, but he's not calling those owners idiots because

he does acknowledge his dad bought a new 9-11S, but generally not his style. 2024. For the absolute

perfect car, he could spend up to $100,000, but he wants to keep it below 50. We're going to work

on you for that. And the lower it is, the more he can rationalize more cars. But I think I have

the car I'm calling my shot. At this point, David's considered a 2021 and newer Alpha Julia,

TI Sport. Love it. He's considered a Jag F-type, gorgeous, like a poor man's Aston Martin. Sure.

2019 and newer BMW i3. His son hates the look, but David loves how distinctive it is. That

resonates with you too. It doesn't resonate with me. I have a soft spot for him as well. I hear

you on that. Yep. He's never had an EV, but he really has nowhere in New York City to charge,

but he figure he's good enough to have some fun. Quirky, Quirky cars. And then last on the list,

well, not quite. 2019 Toyota Supra, GR Supra. It was almost last. He says he doesn't know why

he's drawn to this car. He loves the looks. He loves the engine. Feels like last of breed.

But then again, he has a Suzuki Samurai. Yeah. So who needs a use case?

Yeah. What on earth? What's it going to be for? But yeah, I hear you. His parents also have a 2012

Audi A8L long wheelbase. The car is pristine and worthless. Got it. Okay. Yep. They have indicated

a desire to sell. There it is. The Audi that you want. The A8L. Yeah. A8L. That's the aluminum.

That's the one you want, right? Well, I actually want the slightly older one. It's the one before.

It's the one before that is the contemporary to the Faten. I thought we found you your A8. No,

it's okay. It's okay. But it is funny that that also works its way into this debate for David.

It's suddenly, oh, by the way, I do have this 2012 A8L. Would you like that while we're at it?

Why not? Let's just have fun with all of it. Good. I had to work my way there. So I'm not going to

show photos of these to you. Okay. But just here's my thinking, my through line. I started with

a Volkswagen Rabbit pickup diesel. Oh my gosh. Because it was just weird. It is weird. I like it.

It's good. Well, you've already had the Volkswagen thing built from 1979 to 1984. Those weird little

pickups started out with 48 horsepower. And then they got a 1.6 liter and bumped it like 58 horsepower.

I like it. That's good. Oh, how about a Subaru brat with the cool jump seats? And you've got a brat.

Oh my gosh. Also pretty low on horsepower. Duplicates the samurai a lot though. It does. It does.

And then I thought something JDM, like a Suzuki Cappuccino. And then I realized you already have

a Suzuki. True. Yeah. This is insane. No, and they're all small. And you already have a Mian. So no.

And then I thought, well, how about a Mini Cooper? Like the original, like this late 60s one. Like,

well, no, your daughter drives a Mini Cooper and that just, you'd like it for just a little bit.

And then I think you'd be done with it. So I'm calling my shot. Okay. There is only one car

that I think you should buy. I'm going to spend a little bit more of your money. And I know it

encroaches. It's not above 100 grand. Think, think 60 grand. Okay. This. All right. A brand new Morgan

Super 3. Oh, that's interesting. If we're going to go nuts, let's go nuts. I get it. 1400 pounds.

Yeah. Yeah. It's got the Ford Dragon 1.5 liter three cylinder making 118 brake horsepower, 111

pound feet of torque, five speed manual with a top speed. If you can believe it of 130 miles an hour.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a three wheeler with a three cylinder engine. It feels

pre digital, but it's still a modern new car. And this thing you said low speed, fun driving roads,

you're going to start, start shopping for flat caps and a scarf and a leather jacket.

By the way, Morgan sells all that stuff on the website too. This is the picture that I want to

paint for you. You're on Long Island. You're tooling around great back roads. Maybe your other

friends want to buy a Morgan 2 and you're all hanging out together just cruising around a

Morgan three wheeler, a new one, a Super 3. And this is you, my friend driving off into the sunset

in your Super 3. I got so excited about this. I want one. I imagine. Really? Okay. Just as a

quirky, different, everybody will suddenly be your friend. Everybody will want to talk to you

about this cool thing. It's got a tiny gas tank, but who cares? You're tooling around Long Island.

I think this car never leaves. Don't ever take it into New York City. Don't ever take it in a no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Danger. Terrify. Yes. Agreed. Yes. Leave it out on the Island and look

how fun this is. I mean, these are all just lifestyle. Look at what we can go do. Taking

it 20 miles an hour. Yes. And everybody will be your friend. I think these are, I think this is

the choice you need. It's fun. It's quirky. It's lightweight. It does all of the things you need

and it is even modern, but they're about 60-ish thousand dollars, depending on how you spec it.

They'll sell you the saddlebags right here. You can have the canvas saddlebags. Oh my gosh. I think

they even make leather and you can have, you can outfit, you can choose a custom number, a custom

color and it will be yours. And I think it's the quirky, unique thing that is just so far

out of the realm of what you were thinking that it's, it will stick around. It will always be

appealing because anything else we choose will be like, you got the Suzuki, you got the Miata,

you got all the cool, quirky, fun stuff. What do you just want to take? What do you just,

we've got to jump in this thing? I mean, no doors. You're right. You're totally right.

No doors. You just jump in and you go and like put on a hat, goggles. You could shop for goggles.

Never thought you'd shop for goggles, but we're helping you. That's amazing. Super. Good job.

Three. I see it. All these people are wearing sunglasses. I need some goggles in there.

He's wearing goggles. He's wearing goggles. That's why he's at the back. They can throw mud

on him. Throw in the spray up. But look, a little road trip. Road trip and they drove it right off

the road onto the beach. That sounds like David's life too. I like it. These things come with avon

tires. They're like bicycle tires. You can shop for avon tires. You're going to get super excited

about all the accessories and the road trips in your super three. My friend, that is possibly the

biggest sell I've ever heard from one of these. I have to give you credit. I want a super three just

to throw the scarf and goggles and helmet and we're gone. You'd have a watch on each wrist.

I know how this would work. Probably so. We're going and then people are like, oh, there's one.

Talk to that guy. David, I'm going to walk through your actual options and then I'm going to throw

in a wild card as well. But I want to, based on your story here, I want to talk through the cars

you have available to fill this slot. And I'm starting with the Audi. I think this is wrong

for you because I think it's too big for Manhattan. Oh, that's the W12. Yeah, it happens to be. I

actually looked up the L and it ends up being the W12 in this photo, which is crazy. But this is too

big for you to want a street park in Manhattan. So it has that problem. You want to start being a

delivery driver. It's, it's an auto. Yeah. And you don't like that. And it just feels too big and

too at a distance. Unless what you plan to do is lots of big road trips. If you're going to start

doing lots of big road trips, or if your wife or your kids are starting to say, I just like to have

something isolating, then this gets back in the picture. But nothing about your story is those

things. So I think this is wrong, even though it's an interesting option, I think it's wrong

for you. That leads me to the Julia. I have a lot of trouble finding what's wrong with this

for you. I think you would really enjoy this. But I'm wondering when you drive it, because you did

say that the Cayenne, which remember is manual, feels really big to you. Now these actually drive

small. They have a fantastically fast steering rack. They are very fun to drive. You said it's

the rare sedan that intrigues you right now. I will back you up. This is one of the most

interesting sedans on sale, full stop. It is brilliant. You could get a used quadrifoglio for

your money, which I actually think makes this far more interesting, even though I'm not sure

where you're going to drive it, because the back roads out in Long Island, it's going to be too

fast. In Manhattan, you're going to be like, why is this so stiff? So I wonder about this, but the

exhaust would rival your Fiat 500. It makes up for everything. I feel like if we got the manual

version of this, this would be your car. But I really wonder because you're so much against

having anything but a manual. I feel like this car you're going to love. The few times you have it

on the Long Island back roads, you're going to love it. And anytime you drive it otherwise,

you're going to be like, I'm not engaged with this enough. Why doesn't it have a manual? That's my

concern here. The i3. Look, I like these things. I kind of have an inexplicable like form. You're

really quirky, interesting city car. I don't know that you need that because you have the 500

Abarth and you enjoy the 500 Abarth because it has a crazy exhaust and it has a manual. That's why

you like that car. I think you're going to like this for a month. I think you're going to be,

because you've also never had an EV. I think you're going to have it. You're going to be like, oh,

look at all the new little interesting things it does. And as soon as you understand them all,

and you've kind of embraced all of those things, you're going to be like, and I'm bored. Hey,

bamboo. Because of the way you engage with a car, I think this, as soon as the novelty wears off,

you're going to be looking to sell it. I don't think it has long term interest. I'm interested

because they're cheap and because there is a place in my life for having just the, I'm going

three miles, run about car. Perfect. Perfect. That would be awesome for me for that. You don't

really have that need because you have other cars that do that and they do it with more fun for you.

So I think this is out. The Jaguar is way up there. But you have to find the manual.

And those are hard to find. If you can find this in a manual, I think this is your car,

because this will be the car that will make you want to find a fun road and an overnight trip.

Because it's going to be soft enough that you could take your wife and you could go somewhere.

Maybe it's the summer home, but maybe it's just, I'd like, I've never driven there.

This is nice enough that you guys can do that. But if you get the manual transmission,

then you still have the manual. So it ends up being modern enough, but still sports enough

and still special enough. This is rising to the top for me. Okay. But I say that if you find the

manual. Only with the manual. Yeah. The Supra is in the same category. You have to get the manual.

I think this might be the modern sports car you never knew you needed. But it has to be

the manual. This is one of the best manuals being sold right now. You can get a brand new one for

your budget. It is worth it. That B 58 engine is a bomb. It's a fantastic engine. The seats are great

for you to drive in all day. You need to get in one of these because it does have a little bit

of a bunker feeling. Some people don't like it. I actually think this car is fantastic every time

I've been in one driven it. I love these things. If you get the manual, you're going to bore yourself

if you don't. The crazy thing about David's story is none of these cars are leaving.

That's the part where I scratch my head. He gives this list of cars and none of them are on the

shopping block. And so I'm realizing only add it's an additive. Yes. And I'm realizing everything here

I feel like has a very serious overlap with something you already have. I've made a case for

some of them, but I'm going to give you one more and you're not going to be surprised by it. But

I think kind of like your Morgan idea. I think while it overlaps, I think it elevates and that is

by yourself and Elise. I got a hint of two. This is way up there for me. I hear this is why because

this is the more modern, more powerful, more of everything version of everything you love about

your Miata. This is the super car version of your Miata. It's not a super car. I'm not saying that,

but I'm saying compared to the NA Miata, this is an elevation of everything you like about that car.

While getting into more of a special exotic feel, but the nicest, a nice one out there right now

is 40 grand. The nicest one out there right now is 80. So what, where would you like to buy?

Anything over 80, by the way, they've just marked it up. Anyway, they just have. I'm sorry. But the

reality is which model year would you like? Which color would you like? Which setup would you like?

They're all manual. They're all analog. Everything you like in a car is here, but more modern than

most of the old stuff in your fleet. And it elevates everything you like. I think for your

Long Island home, it is your lease, but I also challenge you find a hooked on driving track

day. Oh, that's great. And take this to the track day, drive it to the track day, put it on track,

drive it home. You will love this thing and all those scenarios. Try to keep it out of Manhattan.

You're not going to like it there. He's in Brooklyn. Come to a Northeast track event. Totally.

You've got some great events this year. I think the answer, truly, because as much as I like

my lease, you've heard me do it a million times on this show. It's not right for most people.

No, it's not. I think it's right for you. Here that could work. I think it could really work.

David, thank you for writing. Thank you for adding. Adding. Nothing's going away. Everything.

Seriously, I kept reading this list going, which of these are on the chopping block. Half of his

list is like the stuff that normally people write to us and go, so these three cars are obviously

going. All of it stay. We're all going to live like curiously through you, David, because you're

only adding and that's pretty much what all of us only want to do is just add to our fleet.

You're having more garage space and the car list should grow. So absolutely. So please let us know

what you do end up getting. Thank you for writing. Thank you for being with us for this crazy series.

And we apologize again for the audio issues is what it is. But we're always looking forward to

next time. Thank you for joining. Share the podcast as you said at the very beginning.

And we've got more of the alphabet to do and we didn't even get to car conclusions. This was

still a marathon next time. The letter M, the letter M brought to you by the letter M. Remember

those shows? Anyway, yeah, here we are till next time. Cheers, everyone.

Peak INFINITI - Lucid, A Delicate Balancing Act, Unique Is The Starting Point | Episode 1,036

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