Peak Porsche - Volvo, Longing For A Car That Talks Back, Innocuous But Fun | Episode 1,040
Everyday Driver Car Debate
Peak Porsche - Volvo, Longing For A Car That Talks Back, Innocuous But Fun | Episode 1,040
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Car
Subaru Outback
The Subaru Outback is a wagon-style car that’s designed to handle different weather and road conditions. The podcast mentions a new version that was redesigned. It’s brought up because it’s meant to be a versatile everyday vehicle.
Car
Mazda Cx50
The Mazda CX-50 is a compact SUV. The podcast compares it to the Outback, suggesting they target similar shoppers. It’s brought up because it’s meant to feel more like an SUV than smaller crossovers.
Concept
body-on-frame
Body-on-frame means the car’s body sits on a separate metal frame underneath. Trucks use this a lot because it’s strong for towing and rough roads.
Company
Hyundai Steel
Hyundai Steel is part of the Hyundai group that makes steel. They’re basically saying the concept uses special steel and manufacturing know-how.
Term
aftermarket industry
Aftermarket parts are things made by companies other than the car brand. If there’s a big aftermarket, it’s easier to buy add-ons like racks, winches, and other upgrades for that vehicle.
Concept
Packaging
Packaging is how the car’s parts are laid out so everything fits and still works well. It can affect what drivetrain options the engineers can use.
Term
all-wheel drive
All-wheel drive means the car can send power to multiple wheels. That usually helps it grip better on slippery roads.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is basically how strong the motor is. But for most drivers, the bigger deal is how far the car can go and how efficiently it uses energy.
Brand
Kia
Kia is a car brand. The speaker is saying Kia has a clear style that makes its cars feel like they belong together.
Concept
City runabout
A “city runabout” is a small, efficient vehicle intended primarily for urban driving—short distances, frequent stops, and tight parking. In EV discussions, this often ties to battery size/efficiency tradeoffs and whether the vehicle’s range matches typical city usage.
Brand
AC Delco Original Equipment
AC Delco is GM’s own parts brand. “Original Equipment” means the parts are meant to match what came on the car from the factory.
Brand
GM Genuine Parts
GM Genuine Parts are replacement parts made for General Motors vehicles. The idea is that they’re designed to fit and work like the original parts.
Company
FCP Euro
FCP Euro is a company that sells car parts, especially for European cars. They’re advertising a “lifetime replacement” promise, meaning if you replace certain parts, they’ll help you get replacements again.
Brand
Porsche
Porsche is one of the brands they say they can get parts for. Since this episode is Porsche-focused, it’s a relevant nod to the kind of cars their catalog covers.
Term
consumables
“Consumables” are wear items that get used up over time and need periodic replacement, such as brake pads, wiper blades, and oil filters. The segment’s emphasis is that the lifetime guarantee covers these routine maintenance items, not just major components.
Part
brake pads
Brake pads are the parts that squeeze against the rotors to slow the car down. They wear out over time, so they’re a normal maintenance item.
Part
oil filters
Oil filters remove contaminants from engine oil to help protect engine components. The segment lists oil filters as covered consumables under the lifetime replacement guarantee, tying into regular maintenance costs.
Concept
replacement / send back the old one / receive a credit
This is a program where you buy a replacement part, then return the old part and get money credited back. It can make repairs cheaper because you’re not paying full price twice.
Company
Rivian
Rivian is a company that makes electric vehicles. Here, they’re talking about how good Rivian’s next big model will be compared to what’s already out.
Car
Rivian R1 T
The R1 T is Rivian’s truck model. In the conversation, the speaker is saying it’s a really good vehicle, particularly if you can find a good deal.
Car
Rivian R1 S
The R1 S is Rivian’s SUV. The host is basically saying both the truck and SUV versions are really good.
Brand
Rolls Royce
Rolls-Royce is a luxury car brand known for very high-end, expensive vehicles. The host is basically saying they’re moving on to talk about that next.
Brand
BMW
BMW is a big German car company. In this conversation, it’s important because BMW owned Rolls-Royce and helped shape what came next.
Term
drop top
A “drop top” refers to a convertible (open-air) body style. The speaker emphasizes the absurdity and fun of having a convertible Rolls-Royce Phantom in winter conditions, turning it into a “why not?” luxury flex.
Car
Rolls Royce Phantom
The Rolls-Royce Phantom is a top-of-the-line luxury car. It’s the kind of car people buy for comfort and prestige, and it can be expensive to run and maintain.
Term
front wheel drive
Front-wheel drive means the front wheels do the work of moving the car. Some people think it makes cars less “fun,” but plenty of FWD cars are still genuinely sporty.
Brand
Saab
Saab is a car brand with a strong fan base. In this episode, they’re talking about Saabs—especially the 9-3 Viggen—and how the brand feels unique and memorable.
Car
Saab 9-3
The Saab 9-3 is a Saab model that was popular around the year 2000. People can often recognize it just by its shape, even if they don’t know much about cars.
Car
Tesla Model S
The Tesla Model S is an all-electric luxury sedan. The speakers are basically saying it looked best in the early versions and that later changes didn’t improve the look as much.
Company
Griot's
Griot's is a company that makes car cleaning and detailing products. The hosts are saying their products work well for getting a car looking good before a trip.
Concept
TT
TT just means “time trial.” It’s a track event where you’re focused on your lap times, not just driving around.
Term
grip
Grip is the tire’s ability to generate traction with the road surface. In cold weather, tire rubber stiffens and grip drops, which is why the speaker emphasizes being careful when the tires are “rock hard.”
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We're starting again. Here we are. Happy Tuesday.
We're already coming in laughing, which is great. We got a huge podcast ahead.
We are finishing up our peak series. That's right.
We are going to do Porsche through the end.
Grab ahold of something. Grit your teeth. We're going to get through this.
We've got a lot of photos, a lot of discussion about peak and our two different ways of approaching that.
We are going to do that, but we've got news up front.
We hope you've seen our latest piece.
It's actually out on this channel right now.
It is the brand-new Super Outback, like totally rethought Super Outback versus the Mazda.
Yes. And more SUV than ever.
Against the Mazda CX-50, which frankly exists because the Outback exists.
So that's something we wanted to do for a while. Hopefully you've seen that.
A car responding to other cars. That's the only purpose of that car being built.
We have a little bit of news up front. Car debates, car conclusions, a few questions.
We've got a lot to do, so we're going to dive right in.
Let's start with news up front from Hyundai.
They have introduced at the New York Auto Show April, 2026,
the Boulder concept.
I am so intrigued.
I am so excited for Hyundai to go into this market of body on frame.
They're claiming they're going to be investing heavily doing a pickup truck version as well.
We've seen renderings of that, but nothing official from Hyundai.
And this is the new Boulder concept.
We don't know much about it.
All we know is it follows the art of steel philosophy,
transforming the strength and flexibility of steel into a language of sculptural yet functional beauty.
Who writes this stuff?
People with marketing degrees that are trying to prove their worth.
That's who writes it.
Here's why.
Because they have to involve Hyundai Steel, part of the Hyundai Motor Group,
inspired by the advanced steel technologies pioneered by Hyundai Steel.
The alloys, natural formability.
I still don't care.
Steel is fine.
We're talking about steel again as if it's a brand new discovery.
That is what's funny.
It's like, have you heard about steel?
Did you know?
Like just now, have you heard about steel?
Yeah.
Titanium carbon fiber.
Yeah.
Steel.
I'm very intrigued by this.
But as I've been looking at this, I'm intrigued because, well,
maybe Hyundai will attend the Easter Jeep Safari at some point in the future.
Wouldn't that be funny?
They'll just show up.
You know they will.
Yeah, yeah.
But there is no aftermarket industry for products for Hyundai off-road vehicles
like there is for Jeeps, Broncos and Toyotas.
Yes, for sure.
That doesn't exist for the winches and the racks and the side steps.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now, there is a market that's available, but nothing like that currently exists
and it will have to be built up over time.
So Hyundai is going to have to bring all those accessories with them.
They're going to have to make them and offer them from the jump.
Yeah, interesting point.
It's like when Mini relaunched, which now has 8,000 accessories.
Originally, there were a bunch offered from the factory and then there's been
other companies that have stepped alongside and then make Mini everything.
But yeah, no, but you're right.
There's no market for it.
Yeah, for sure.
Market's huge for Jeeps.
The market's enormous of aftermarket things you can do to your Jeep.
But I don't think anything exists for Hyundai's, for Kia's.
So I'm fascinated that that will now become another industry that I think it's a great
road for people to go down.
I mean, this will now be driven around Park City and go to the local coffee shop.
Of course.
And maybe go to Moab and do some off-roading, but it does look really capable.
We don't know the powertrain yet.
We know it's riding on 37-inch off-road tires.
But otherwise, have you noticed it's made out of steel?
And so they painted it the same color.
Steel.
Steel.
I mean, they need to offer it in colors and they need to offer it in this two-door,
because two-door off-roaders always look amazing.
But this is crazy.
Of course, concept is great.
You're not going to pinch your fingers or anything.
No, none of that will ever be covered.
It's going to be fine.
It's going to be fine.
All this is definitely going to go directly to market exactly like this.
But you noticed with all these little screens up here, this is the modern equivalent of
individual gauge pods.
It's just a small screen.
And they're modular.
Where do you want to put them?
You slide them around.
Which ones do you want?
What do you want to say?
Yeah, for sure.
And the steering wheel circular dials are just sort of floating.
I love renderings because you can attach anything to anything.
It just sits there and it just, of course, magically all works together.
And it all passes regulation.
It's fantastic when you do these concept things.
Your fingers won't be pinched.
No, it's going to be great.
It needs regulations, of course.
So I'm very intrigued with that.
Also at the New York Auto Show, Kia has introduced the 2027 Celtos, which is now available with
three power trains.
The two-liter four-cylinder with CBT.
Nobody is being fooled by the IVT nomenclature, Kia, that you're using.
The intelligent variable transmission.
None of us are fooled.
Yeah, exactly.
Also, they offer it with a turbo 1.64 with 190 horsepower and a new hybrid with the 1.6-liter
engine and a six-speed dual clutch.
Why not just put the dual clutch and everything instead of the CBT?
I agree.
Packaging.
I'm sure there'll be a miles per gallon difference.
But of course, they've really leaned into the Telluride styling here, too.
Yeah, the EV9 styling, Telluride styling.
But I think they are nailing their styling because it does look, I mean, the setting is
appropriate.
It's in the forest, and so it looks kind of rugged-y, whitish.
And I do appreciate that.
So here's that interior.
Nothing really groundbreaking, but it does look simple and clean here.
Also, Kia has introduced the EV3 up to 320 miles of estimated range available all-wheel
drive, making 261 horsepower and 288 horsepower on the GT models.
But that is low horsepower for an EV.
So I say, even though it's offered with two different batteries, but yeah, let's put less
horsepower in the EVs.
Absolutely.
Low horsepower.
They're still plenty quick.
They have constant torque.
Yes, constant torque.
They can be lighter.
Let's do all of them.
Stop chasing horsepower.
Let's make them less, make them smaller.
Especially if this is an entry-level bottom of the market EV, there's no horsepower bragging
to be done here.
Let's just make it usable, and let's get that range way up and the weight down.
I totally agree.
So here's that interior.
Again, nothing super groundbreaking.
Like everything else they're doing.
Yeah.
You know, there's more buttons.
There's more things to look at, more instant available buttons to control features in the
car.
So I do appreciate that.
I do hate the haptic strip on the dash.
Well, yeah.
I really don't like that.
That is kind of nasty.
But anyway, whatever.
That's something you're doing elsewhere too.
Design language really is nice and really matches.
So Kia has really found their niche, their design language.
Speaking of lower entry-level EVs, this is one that North America does not get.
So this is the UK market EV2.
Production has now begun in Slovakia.
So here they are.
They're even smaller.
Wow.
And two battery options on that.
But yeah, let's make these EVs smaller, lightweight, and a little runabout.
City runabout.
It works in Europe, and I think it could work in cities in the US, but of course, we don't
get it.
So we've got the larger EV3 because we've got so much space in the US.
Yeah, true.
So it's all fine.
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So we finish up the peak of things, even more peak.
I'm a little frightened because the first brand that we have here is Porsche, and I'm
worried that that might be another 30 minutes' worth of discussion.
I will not make it 30 minutes of discussion, I promise.
But I did stay, I did stay on my own personal rules, and that is I tried to find a year
when you could walk into a dealership, and all of these amazing or interesting cars were
available from that brand in the exact same year.
And Porsche was a fun one for that.
Also, I found a couple, and they'll be later.
But when we get to Volkswagen and Volvo, I realized the years that I like them is because
they're doing something while the...
Think about the 70s and the 80s for cars.
Those were the doldrums.
Those were when cars were tough to have something to be excited about.
Like the late 70s, early 80s, I all started pondering, what is the rest of the market
doing while this brand is doing this?
And that was illuminating as well.
So I look forward to talking about all of this, but you should start with Porsche.
Go for it.
Let's do it.
And I promise to not take a lot of time on Porsche because there's so many.
I mean, how can one pick?
How can one choose?
But I'm going to take a page out of your book, only for Porsche.
The rest I tried to stick to specific cars, one or two cars that defined a peak of a manufacturer.
But for Porsche, it's interesting because I came back to the era that you and I have
identified as sort of the magic year nobody else or every car company was doing something
magic with their cars.
And that is the year 2011 BMW was doing the 1M.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So starting with the 2011, that is the year you can buy the 911 GT3 in manual.
You can buy the 911 GT3 RS in manual.
This is from Graham Rahall Performance.
Graham Rahall gets all the best stuff at his dealership.
So I pulled this.
It's the right spec.
Like every car he sells is the perfect, unique right spec.
Here is the rear shot of that.
And I desperately want this car, and I'm sure it's sold by now, but I don't care.
It's the right spec.
And of course, 2011 was the magic year for the GT3 RS 4.0 in manual.
Also, you could buy a GT2 RS with a manual.
Oh my gosh, you're right.
You could also buy the 911 Turbo with a manual.
The Turbo S did not, but the Turbo you could.
So all of those variants had manual transmissions.
And you're right.
Every one of those is an icon.
That's pretty fascinating.
Also, you could buy the Cayman R, which was the last of the really great,
lightweight 987 Caymans before things switched over as well.
Your favorite, the 2011 Boxster Spider.
That's a fantastic car.
And the rest of the 911 lineup, yes, you could still buy all the variants of
the all-wheel drives and the Targas and all that stuff.
But the new Cayenne had just appeared.
So the beginning of the second generation with the good interior.
The Macan had just been announced.
The Panamera was now earning money for Porsche, and the 918 concept was revealed
and in production development for release just after that.
So 2011 with all of those cars, that was the sweet spot.
The peak for Porsche, that chassis was still
the smaller 911 that we like.
And I think that entire lineup from Porsche, that was the year.
I hope for better things.
And there are cars that I like outside of that, of course, many cars.
But I think that was definitely a peak for Porsche all the way around.
Pretty much every 911 you could think of was all manuals.
Yeah, it's an interesting point.
GT3s, GT2s for the 4.0, GT2.
And every one of those is worth a fortune now.
Yeah, it's absurd.
It's absurd.
I did have a little fun with this.
So let's let's jump to the year for Porsche is 1987.
Oh, OK.
I have a good friend who has a car just like the one I'm showing.
I'm showing a 1987 3.2 liter Carrera.
Now, if you want to get into Porsche speaking, I will for a minute,
even though it's not what I'm known for, they just moved to the G50 gearbox,
which is an upgraded gearbox from this version prior.
It was a better gearbox, good five speed.
This is air cooled 911 done right.
I mean, they keep doing it in the 993s and I like those.
But in 1987, the thing that's interesting to me about Porsche in 1987
is the breadth of cars they sold, but all they sold were sports cars.
It's a great point, which is fascinating.
That's a great point.
So let's talk about the things that was being sold by Porsche in 1987.
This 911 Carrera 3.2.
Yes, of course, that's the icon.
I get it. Whale, tail, the whole deal.
But what about the slant nose turbo?
I like these. I still like these.
I like them a lot.
In fact, when I was a kid, I like this much better.
I still kind of do much better than the look of the bubble front nose,
even though that's the more iconic slant nose turbo was available in 87.
So was the nine to four.
You had an entry level, originally developed by Volkswagen and Audi,
but entry level, decent to drive, little entry hatchback nine to four.
Your favorite, the nine to eight is still soldering on.
So is the nine forty four.
The transaxle era was a full force available in turbo and non.
This is all 87, by the way.
That is so cool. And the nine five nine.
Nineteen eighty seven at Porsche was just all we do is iconic great sports cars.
And that's it. Would you like to buy a Porsche?
I just it astonishes me.
And you've got look with the nine five nine, you have the moonshot stuff.
It was why the conversations at the time were.
Why is a high end sports car all wheel drive?
Think about that.
It came out, it was all wheel drive, and the discussion was kind of like,
why would you make a halo car in all wheel drive?
And now the news is the reverse. That's true.
Now it's why would you make a halo car that isn't all wheel drive?
But this was like Porsche was like losing its mind.
I mean, I realize it was rally, but people were going, yeah,
nobody else makes a halo car and all wheel drive.
The nine five nine is doing all of the crazy stuff like look at everything we can do.
But then you've got the nine twenty four and the forty four and the nine eleven
three two that is air cooled and classic.
I was astonished when I thought about 1987.
I also thought about the rest of the market in eighty seven.
In sports cars, you mean just in general.
I mean, yeah, Ferrari's making the forty, but like think of the 80s US cars.
Yeah. OK. I mean, this is 1987 and they're on a different plane.
And I just loved it.
I'd see told you we wouldn't spend too much time on Porsche.
There's, of course, accolades, you know, endless conversation to have,
but we'll move on to Ram and I am choosing for one car, one car only from Ram.
All the pickup trucks.
It is the fifteen hundred TRX without a doubt, either the old one
from twenty twenty to twenty twenty four or the new one reintroduced in January
twenty twenty six up to now Ram TRX, the end as the Ram brand goes.
There is no more peak truck for the brand and for pickup trucks in general
because jump detection and power and jump detection.
I just it's absurd.
So it is the TRX hands down for me.
I overlap with you on this.
I do overlap, but I'm just going to say twenty twenty one
because that was when the TRX was introduced and twenty twenty one
is just look at this lineup.
All Ram does is trucks.
You have the fifteen hundred available in any variant you can
from the tradesmen, the low end stuff with cloth seats to the really,
really high luxury vehicle that happens to be truck shaped.
The TRX is this world killer vehicle trying to just run over the world.
But you could also get the higher variants, the HD variants,
like the twenty five hundred and that kind of stuff, which are even more
heavy duty for towing, have that same look and can be just as luxurious.
All of this was happening in twenty twenty one for Ram.
Now, since then, there's been doldrums.
I mean, you just brought up the point that the TRX is coming back.
But make what sells, make what people want to buy.
But there's regulations and all kinds of other stuff they're trying to change.
But this is just amazing to me that Ram, let's be honest,
was also broken off of the Dodge brand, not that long before this.
So they really make a name for themselves.
And now this is what they're known for.
And they continue to be you brought it up.
It was the late nineties, early 2000s, when they first did that that Dodge
truck that looked like a Peterbilt.
It was 93 when they came out with that Peterbilt, the Kenworth Peterbilt
look to appeal and make it more truck like.
And I think it's made distinctive styling.
It's still carried over.
Yeah, I think they have these sticks.
Even you can even see it here when you think about these these recent ones.
The fenders above the wheels, that part of the truck is slightly lower
than the center of the hood.
It's not as extreme as it was in the first introduced, but it is carrying over.
That is their distinctive styling thing.
And I think 2021 was the throwdown.
Rivian is on our list.
And even though they're a feisty new car company,
I am going to say their peak is ahead of them.
It's funny.
I have the exact same thought with the exact same photo.
Do you really?
Yes.
And we'll just go with this.
The R3 is on screen now.
The R2 has just now been introduced, but the R3 is pretty much the one everybody wants.
I mean, that's what people are looking forward to.
It looks like that kind of hatchish lifted hatch from the 80s and has that flavor.
I can't wait for this, actually.
I think this is the better styling of anything.
Rivian, the R3 has intrigued me the most.
We're impressed with them, but I think their peak is far down the road.
My note here is their peak is whatever they released the R3.
That is my note.
And it's there it is exact same photo of looking at the rear hatch.
I mean, again, as you already said, the R2 just came out, which is their slightly
smaller version of what they first released, which was the R1.
The R1 T and R1 S are excellent.
They're very, very good.
If you want to deal on an amazing truck, look at a used Rivian, because it's amazing
how far they've fallen, how great they still are.
So the R2 is we're building a different lineup, but the R3 says we have a portfolio.
And it is also the one that people that didn't care about other Rivians went,
what is this now when the R3's first dropped?
So again, whenever the R3 comes out, welcome to peak Rivian.
I think this styling is reminiscent of Audi in the 80s.
And that's why it's so appealing.
It was an Quattro, the faceted surfaces.
I think it's very Audi like.
It's also Renault R5. It's R5. You're right.
It has that kind of old rally hatching, even though here's the thing that is
distinctly, imagine that with boxier fenders and the rally version of that.
Here's the thing deceiving on these photos.
We all think this is a little rabbit sized hatch. It's not.
It's much like this is a Macan size SUV.
So let's not get too excited about what we think it's going to be scale wise,
but I'm still quite excited about the possibility. All right, good.
Well, then I will jump forward to Rolls Royce and we never talk about rolls on the show.
True. But I just wanted to plant seeds.
OK. The peak Rolls Royce that I think is the Phantom 7. OK.
From 2003 to 2017,
this was a huge commercial success for rolls.
Over 10,000 Phantoms were sold.
There was a facelift in there, but over 10,000 of these.
Far more cars than they sold of any other kind.
Yeah, I thought the same thing.
Yeah, absolutely. I think this is peak Rolls.
And so I thought, all right, how much did they cost?
Hmm. So I went looking.
Please, please tell me.
The cheapest one I found is a 2004.
So early in the run with 42,000 miles in great shape.
For seventy one thousand dollars.
That's tempting.
None of us need Rolls Royce's.
I know that's not in your thinking, but for the price of a fully loaded
forerunner trail hunter, sure. Yeah. Or Land Cruiser.
I just want to put that in perspective.
Yes, for sure. For sure. Yeah.
We could be driving Rolls Royce's.
We could all be. I'm terrified.
Being driven around in Rolls Royce's.
Terrified to know what the maintenance would be.
But yeah, you're right.
Seventy thousand dollars right now.
I hate to say this.
I really hate to say this, but seventy thousand dollars doesn't come close
to buying you a true luxury car.
It can buy you a very nice car.
Please don't get me wrong.
Seventy thousand dollars, still a lot of money.
But this is still competing for the most luxurious car ever.
Ever. And that would be a twenty two year old one.
It would still be competing for that feel.
Can you believe that? That's interesting.
And things we don't need to do, but I really want to do for the show.
Is that intriguing? Yeah, it is.
A new Nismo Z sports car.
Oh, or a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom Park.
Yeah, either of those in your driveway
and nobody will think those are the same price.
That is a good point.
That's what I love about our show.
And that's what we've said from the very beginning.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you get something
and people think it's still far more expensive than it ever was,
the jokes on them, you know, you paid so much less.
It applies to rolls here years later.
And there's so many of them.
I don't know that the value of these is going to hold.
I mean, modern rolls, sure, they're just expensive.
I don't know why you would buy a Rolls Royce.
I really don't.
I guess for captains of industry, for the things CEOs say in their rollings.
Frankly, it's it's the equivalent of I have my own private jet.
Yes, yes, you want to travel at a level of isolation and luxury
and on your own time and on your own
concierge feel that nobody else wants to or can't afford to.
And that's why you do it.
You know, I've never really loved being driven, you know,
if I'm exhausted or something like that.
But I want to drive.
And this just you don't buy this for driving, of course, you don't.
But I think it would still be pretty great to drive around.
I'm a $70,000 every day.
$71,000 every day driver rolls Royce.
$71,000.
Interesting. I'm going to jump in here,
but I'm going to jump right off of what you're already talking about.
I picked the year 2010.
OK. The reason I picked that is because it's right in the middle
of that phantom run that you're talking about.
This is the most successful, as far as I understand,
a single car Rolls Royce ever made.
They always made very high end things, but they never were volume things.
Right. Ten thousand of them is a lot.
So you do have the phantom.
But the interesting thing in 2010 is this is right after BMW releases,
their first Haywee Bolt Rolls Royce.
Think about how much BMW was killing it in the early 2000s.
They're doing those great cars of the 90s and early 2000s that we loved.
But they own Rolls Royce and they own many and they re-release both
to some of the best stuff ever of those two brands.
That's true at both ends of the markets.
Yes, that's intriguing.
And there was underpinnings of these Rolls Royces
that was actually related to the seven series BMW.
But nobody was turning their nose up at the Rolls
is because they were related to BMW, which is also a victory.
So we have the phantom.
But the phantom came in variance in 2010.
You had the phantom, the good four door, you know,
suicide door, crazy phantom with the umbrella and you could get the drop top.
And I love that this photo happens to be a drop top in the snow.
You want to really throw down how much you don't need a drop top.
You have a Rolls Royce drop top in the winter.
That is phenomenal.
So a drop top exists.
Let's have the big like the yacht style wood at the back.
Oh, yeah. So there's that.
Oh, yeah. The teak deck.
You also could get just the coupe. OK.
Would you like to drive yourself in your phantom, sir?
What about the actual coupe?
If you want to drive yourself, forget about the rest of the world.
Yeah, we make a car. You can drive.
And they also were making the ghost,
which was much more directly related to the seven series.
It was the quote unquote entry level Rolls Royce.
So it was like to Rolls Royce version of the seven series.
All of this was 2010 and it's all built on to the point you made.
It's all built on this wildly successful first moonshot of that updated phantom.
And then now that they had everybody's attention, they made variance.
I don't even think I've ever even seen the drop top in person.
Only at a car only at Pebble Beach.
Yeah, it's just crazy.
But anyway, all of these cheap like phantom variants available in 2010
from Rolls Royce.
What a victory.
And now you've got me thinking like more than I should, about a seventy one
thousand dollar phantom. I mean, when those dipped like 60 or 50,
it's still a lot of money.
But I just wonder what the maintenance is like on that.
But would it be more than a seven series?
Maya, who knows?
But I don't know where you are.
Here's what's crazy.
The faton that I so enjoyed owning was seventy to a hundred thousand dollars.
And I bought it for a tenth of its price.
Seventy one thousand dollar Rolls Royce is not a tenth of its price,
but it is. It's like a fifth.
Has anybody ever made a video of a Rolls Royce phantom
booking at top speed across the salt flats?
A cheap phantom? No one has.
Booking just as fast as it can possibly go blazing across the salt
fats flats with somebody in the back and you're sipping tea or doing,
you know, just enjoying the luxury lifestyle, listening to classical music.
And I I have so many video ideas for something we don't have the money for
right now. Rocketing. Anyway, there you go.
Phantom for everybody, I guess. I don't know.
By special request, I am covering sob.
We have to do this and a shout out to my brother in law, Daniel.
He is a uber sob enthusiast and also we've had other requests online too.
So sob has never really intrigued me,
but I've gotten to drive more of Daniel's sobs and I am starting to.
I do appreciate that European that craftsmanship, that solidity.
They're very unique.
They they do a long time and there's still a huge community out there.
And we have also explicitly said being front wheel drive does not mean
it is not an enthusiast car or you are not an enthusiast for liking
front wheel drive because of all the minis and the Fiesta STs and the Civic
Type R's and there's so many out there.
And I would like to believe that the 99 to 2002 sob 93 Viggen with 230 horsepower
manual and updated running gear would fit perfectly in that category.
I also like the blue.
They made a hard top and the convertible versions of this.
And the Viggen was sort of the peak of sob-ness.
It was still a GM platform.
I can't believe pretty sure at that point, but still sob Viggen.
I can't believe your brother doesn't own a Viggen.
Maybe he's searching for what I just don't know.
They're too expensive.
These are like 30 to 40,000 dollars.
Yeah, it's out of his budget range.
One of the things I love about Daniel as a sob owner is because he is like
the rest of the car world's on mute.
He has almost zero awareness.
The rest of the car world is on mute and not in color.
OK, and yet sob is like angels singing from heaven and bright colors and
saturation. He's like, oh, I need to buy another sob.
It's crazy to be true.
He knows other cars exist, but they just they don't penetrate his thinking at
all, but sobs. It's all about it.
I got to go to a sob discussion as well.
And I'm going to go to the year 2000 for sob overlapping what you're talking about.
This is the era when I mean, that is the most iconic shape I think in cars.
I'm showing a nine three.
You just know it's a sob.
Well, if you see a nine three silhouette, you don't have to know anything about cars,
but I think you know that is a sob.
Yeah. And people that barely know cars like, oh, you can see it from across the
parking lot. Oh, there's a sob nine three over there.
I just did like that clamshell hood kind of thing.
It's crazy. They did make a convertible.
You've already mentioned this.
The nine three was also being sold in convertible form at the time.
By the way, the photo that I'm showing just happens to have the license plate
born jet on it. Oh, my gosh, you're kidding.
Anyway, so there's the nine three sob in various things,
but they also made the nine five, which I have to admit is one of the cooler
looking wagons ever. Yes, it is.
This is the year 2000, the nine five sob wagon available and arrow and non.
My nephew has one. I know I was waiting that he has a red one too, doesn't he?
It's a red one with the fold out picnic table, which is apparently a very rare option.
Is his a manual? It is not.
OK, because that would be the fully loaded best.
And I have to admit, it is quite a nice place to be on the highway.
And yes, and it's plenty spacious and it's a great recipe.
These nine five wagons were cool.
And then I have to end on a photo that makes me laugh.
It is the actual promotional photo of the nine three big and with the jet,
with the actual jet blurred in the background so they can really drive home
at the time that they had the big and jet, which was an actual jet.
It was an actual double canner jet.
It's a very cool jet at the time made by the Swedes.
So here it is driving home the born from jets,
the non three Viggen with the actual jet in the background.
But that has got to be your 2000. That's fantastic.
There's many Subaru's to choose from.
I have chosen the 2010 Impreza STI hatchback special edition
with 305 horsepower, two hundred ninety pound feet of torque
from the turbo boxer engine and a six speed manual, mainly because
the WX STI hatchback.
I always love the hatch version of this and thought that was such a cool,
sweet spot for Subaru. Of course, there's many rally cars we could choose.
There's many great ones over the years.
They have, of course, grown in size and scale like crazy.
But I've always been intrigued with the STI hatchback version of this.
Very cool for, yeah, for 2010.
They did start with a special edition and then they ended up building
a lot more of them. So that was pretty cool.
They also built one that was a Cosworth engine version of this,
which was even crazier and I liked that they explored that.
But but yeah, this is probably one of my favorite
Subarus ever is the hatchback version of this.
But also I cannot help but mention the brat because it's fun on wheels.
Look at this girl in the back.
She's not belted in.
She's not wearing a helmet.
She's not even wearing sunscreen, but she's having a lot of fun.
And yes, fun on wheels in the 1980s.
It's just driving down the edge of the surf in the 1980s.
We're hanging out of the car. Yes, she's sitting in the jump seats.
They're having fun. They're on the way to have fun.
They're just it's fun is just exuding from this photo.
It's all the fun that is not allowed anymore.
You can't drive on the beach.
You have to wear a seat belt.
There's no seats in the back.
All of this is no longer allowed.
Yes, fun has been outlawed, everybody.
Here it is. Here's it is in a photo for proof.
And I don't care. I'm dating myself.
But who had stoppers as a kid?
Stompers. I did.
Do you remember stompers? Yes, I do.
I love stompers with their all wheel drive, the four wheel drive thing
with the foam tires. Yes.
And I found the brat version of this.
And you would believe how expensive
stompers are being auctioned for their 200 plus dollars.
Seriously, per stomp.
I had multiple. I had multiple.
I wish I still had them.
I would line them up and I had the 57 Chevy Nomad Stomper.
That is funny. I had all the stompers.
The headlights lit up for those of you that don't know.
OK, imagine a two times the size of a normal hot wheels.
So a truck at double the size of a normal hot wheels with the world's most
simple, literally turn it on, turn it off.
All the wheels moved at the same time, all four wheels,
double a battery, tire, double a battery.
And here's the thing.
I got aggressive with my stompers.
OK, I would put them through.
I have gained mechanical sympathy over my life.
I had zero for stompers. Really?
I would like I would like my I actually have a very vivid memory
with a buddy in a playground. OK, again,
talking about things that aren't allowed anymore.
We found this half buried, no longer used like drain pipe at the edge
of a of a playground. OK, so we unearthed it enough.
Unsupervised. Oh, yeah.
We unearthed enough that a stomper could fit inside it.
So we would launch it from one end and there were holes in it.
You could push sand on and watch the light and the sand fall down on the truck
as it tried to work its way through.
I was doing cinematic stuff.
I was a little nice.
The other thing I did, did you know these things could go under water?
I guess I didn't. I did. Oh, yeah.
You put them under water. Oh, yeah.
I thought they just fizzle and show it out instantly.
You would think. But they did not.
They couldn't do it for too long because eventually it would essentially
just zap the battery. Yeah, but you could started at one end of a puddle
and it would get if the puddle was short enough, it would get under water
and come out the other side of the puddle.
Then you had to like dismantle it and drive anything out.
But I did it multiple.
I resurrected multiple of my stompers that went through the ringer.
So you have brought back fantastic warm memories to me.
Yeah, I changed out the tires.
They made the hard rubber versions.
I made the soft foam versions.
I changed out tires. I changed out the bodies.
It was just so cool. I love these things.
You and I are having like live eBay nostalgia purchasing right now.
And they're stupid expensive if you want one.
So that is ridiculous.
So go find your stomper collection and sell it or display it.
I don't know.
Wrenching us desperately back to Subaru.
Here we go, everybody, Subaru.
I actually did pick a year for Subaru and here's where I went.
I went to 2005.
I'm starting with the Baja.
The Baja is much maligned, but I'm actually showing one
that is kind of been made to look mean.
It also looks like it's been parked on tail of the dragon here with during the fall.
But anyway, so this one has been all blacked out and lifted a little bit.
But it is essentially the updated, more safety aware version of the brat.
The brat with safety.
But the other thing is beginning in 2006,
they changed their styling at Subaru and they went with the Hawkeye thing,
which I never liked.
The iconic Subaru for me is the 2005 WRX wagon
before they went to the Hawkeye headlights.
I love this car.
I seriously considered buying one.
I ended up buying the Sabaru instead.
But and the reason didn't go, by the way, for those of you wondering why I didn't
go Sabaru for a peak sob is because it was actually just a WX.
It was this WX in a better looking sob suit.
How come you didn't put born jet on your license tag?
Because it wasn't. It was born Japanese.
So that's why I didn't.
But anyway, so this is when it still got the really cool, you know,
snow shovel hood scoop.
But this is a WX, not an STI wagon.
They also made the think about this.
They made the base Impressa that looked like this.
Then they made the Impressa sedan WX version.
Then they made the WX wagon.
Then they also made the same era.
The STI, same headlights, same hood scoop, but even more, better, bigger.
This is also inspired to me so much by Gran Turismo of the year.
I just love that.
Oh, five. All of those things.
But also think about this.
They were making a legacy sedan and a legacy wagon.
They also made the outback versions.
But this is before this was completely taken over by being the outback.
And what's crazy about these legacies is underneath, they were the parts
from the WX and the STI.
So you could lego them up and make them real performance cars.
And they weren't bad to begin with.
I mean, the legacy of this era was actually like the subtle
Camry competitor that was actually decent to drive.
The Camry was boring.
And this was actually interesting and all wheel drive.
And you could get power out of there was that spec B one that you and I drove.
Yeah, that's right.
I was thinking the spec B of the legacy that's kind of this era.
But then further, so again, all of these are available.
And that is a good looking wagon.
That that 2005 legacy wagon with a hood scoop and actual WX parts
is a good looking wagon.
This is Subaru 2005.
And after this, they get, frankly, less good looking and more festooned with CBTs.
It's a plague.
It just overtook the brand.
Yeah, over took Nissan as well over at Tesla.
The other car company that hasn't been around too long, but a little bit longer
than Rivian, I have decided the Model S plaid.
I'm showing a twenty twenty one here on screen.
But my peak Tesla so far is the twenty twenty four Model S plaid.
Not only do I think it's just a beautiful looking car, EV ice.
I don't care.
It's just a good look.
It's a pretty car.
It's well done, well designed, proportions are excellent.
It's also a seven seater early in its life.
True.
But the plaid version had a thousand and twenty horsepower, seven hundred and seventy
pound feet of torque, but it still had a range of three hundred and seventy
miles. So I think that really set the tone for not only having a ton of power,
but still great range.
Sure. And I think that was peak with the styling.
I think that's been peak for Tesla because in the cyber, well, cyber
anything has come along and kind of taken them off their peak.
And I think that Model S was a great looking car when it was first introduced
in early odds.
And then now with the refinement with this, I think the Model S is the best
looking car they've ever produced and we're going away from it.
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
I'm going to jump on that as a variation, though, because I did a little
bit of research to make sure I got my years right.
Believe it or not, the Model S was first really talked about a lot in 2009.
Yeah, way, but delivery started in 2010.
But they were really like if you really get one, it's probably 2012.
I was thinking I was landing on 2012 as peak Tesla for the brand.
And here's why I say it because when this this I'm showing an original
version, notice the original front end where it had the dark grill
before they decided they didn't need a grill so they didn't want to shape.
And I actually think that this is still spectacular looking.
Just the way it came out in 2012.
This is almost identical to the one that you and I first drove.
We were very impressed by it.
But the reason I think it's peak Tesla is because when this car came out,
it was the instant internet darling.
This is the one people were drag racing against everything and couldn't
believe this was a throw down.
This is a throw down.
Think about it like the when the LS came out from Lexus or the NSX came out
from Acura, it's that level of throw down.
Everybody else in the industry was put on notice when the Model S dropped.
It was faster.
It worked better.
It was nicer looking.
It was a better car than anyone expected it to be from this tiny company.
And all of the promises lay ahead.
Fulfilled or unfulfilled.
Exactly. The X, the three, the Y, the cyber truck, the we're going to
revolutionize robo taxis.
Everything's going to work for itself.
Shingles, this thing when it came out, there was at this point, I also think
Elon was at his peak because he hadn't dropped the ball on anything yet.
This was the proof that Tesla could work and it worked so well.
The rest of the industry went, what is going on over there?
Yeah, these were being bought and dismantled by other companies.
Yeah.
Since then it's been promises broken, cars that don't work, all kinds of stuff.
But this was the throw down.
This was the announcement car.
Yes, true.
That everybody couldn't believe how good it was.
I'm sorry, but 2012 before promises, this was the peak for the weird doors,
the blow torches, the boring company, the robots, but this is a huge peak and a
great looking car.
K-pop demon hunters, Haja boys, breakfast meal and huntrix meal have just
dropped at McDonald's.
They're calling this a battle for the fans.
What do you say to that, Rumi?
It's not a battle.
So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
It is an honor to share.
No, it's our honor.
It is our larger honor.
No, really, stop.
You can really feel the respect in this battle.
Pick a meal to pick a side.
And participating McDonald's while supplies last.
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Let's discuss Toyota again.
Many Toyotas over the years that we could choose from, I am looking at the
entire current lineup of Toyota to say that Toyota is peaking currently
because of the breadth and variety and quality of all of their products.
Now, that's not to say they don't have their own problems like the engines
that have gone undergone recalls.
There's been a few hiccups along the way, but every car company has had
problems along the way.
So we'll kind of put it in that category, I guess.
But what I'm showing on screen is the upcoming GR GT3 that is designed for
track use and also the associated Lexus LFA, which is an EV only, but Toyota
in all of their GR products, their GR thinking from the Corolla, the GR 86,
the GR Supra, offering those cars and the breadth of all the SUVs off
rotors, excellent products.
I'm an owner.
I bought one because I liked it so much.
I like the styling.
I just liked it.
It just fit my lifestyle and I really wanted it.
We owned and loved our 86.
Yep.
So I think currently in this general era right now is when Toyota has really
used all of their knowledge, but they brought racing back into the picture,
of course, culminating so far with the GR GT3.
And I think Toyota's current lineup, the entire lineup.
So I won't show you, I won't go to the website and show you all of their cars
and trucks, but there's a lot.
The Camry is great.
The Corolla is great.
Pick one of them.
They're great.
There's too much model overlap.
The Land Cruiser and the Ford, we're at this incredible level of choice
from Toyota.
Sure.
Yeah, I see.
More so than almost any other car company.
And they are just pick a model.
They're doing great, excellent, cool looking, styling, modern features.
I see you there, but I'm going to jump back.
I'm going to go back in time to when I think Toyota really nailed it.
When you could walk into the Toyota dealership and you can't believe the
stuff they have, I'm going to go back to 1996.
OK, and partially because as I flip through these, you're going to be
surprised at how current some of them seem.
1996 Toyota was making a bunch of stuff that's still on the road today.
I am showing a forerunner.
They had a forerunner that you can still see these right now.
Go to some off-road related area.
You will see a 1996 forerunner last forever.
You can see a Celica.
This was the four wheel drive Celica.
That's a cool Celica.
Isn't that crazy?
That was on the on the end of its its life.
The Land Cruiser of this area.
My father-in-law owned a 1996 Land Cruiser that he took no care of.
He just bought it because he thought it was interesting looking.
And he heard they ran well and he really barely maintained it.
The paint bubbled.
He treated this thing terribly and he sold it for more than he bought it for.
Are you kidding me?
He had people approach him at gas stations and offer him money on the spot
for more than he paid.
Yes. So what?
The 1996 Land Cruiser, he had a ton of miles on his.
These are still out there and beloved.
This is still ongoing 1996.
I don't have a picture of it, but the Camry of this era
was at its most boring, but also probably most unkillable.
And they made it in a wagon.
If you ever see a Camry wagon from the 90s, they are not attractive.
That's true. I didn't bring a photo.
They are not attractive.
There was also a two door Camry.
Yes, they were exactly right.
Three ninety two ninety three.
This era had a two door.
But the Camry was unkillable and so bland, you didn't even notice.
And then the bubble of the wagon was so awful
that you couldn't help but notice, but you see those still running now and then.
Yeah, we're also talking MR2 era in 1996.
This MR2 that honestly looked like some sort of
three forty eight Ferrari ish product was available in the mid 90s.
Nineteen ninety six is where we are.
You actually have the introduction of the RAV four.
Now it's gangly and weird looking, but this became a huge bestseller.
And I would say kind of spawned a part of the market.
Lexus is over there with the RX 300 doing the five seat five door egg shaped thing.
But this is the it's almost an off-roader and I need a cheap SUV.
This is that craze, spawning in ninety six with the RAV four.
And of course, the iconic Fast and Furious Supra.
Nineteen ninety six at Toyota is all of this stuff.
And the truth is, if you see any of the things I've just flipped through
on the road today, it turns your head, you know, all those are cool.
They just have this kind of universal air with car
enthusiasm like, oh, my gosh, those are awesome.
It's true, which is crazy.
This is 30 years ago, everybody.
So I am saying nineteen ninety six is peak Toyota.
Very good. Volkswagen has a large and deep portfolio of many things we could choose.
I am only choosing one car as its peak, and it is the mark seven and a half
Gulf R 2017 to 2020.
There was a facelift in 2016, 306 horsepower, 280 pound feet of torque.
And as always, very tunable, but pretty much every review, ours included.
We all said it's a better driving experience than the mark eight that followed it.
Even though there was more power, there was more tech,
but it was still the desirable one, the seven and a half.
We keep saying seven and a half, either GTI or Golf R, but I liked this for the more power.
I just thought this is absolute peak Volkswagen powers before they really went
down the road of distracting themselves with other kinds of cars and succeeding or failing, whichever.
Jeff, a viewpoint you'd like to take on that.
But I think the the Golf R is sort of like, oh, that's the one you really want.
OK, that's a great car. Seven and a half Golf R for me.
There's a lot of actually really interesting cars in the Volkswagen portfolio,
many of which, frankly, aren't even nearly this new.
And I'm surprised you went that new and you succeeded.
I think it's a great choice because it was new enough.
Yeah, it's not the latest tech, but it was still like all the features that we want.
Volkswagen to keep doing this.
Sure. It was the peak of the design of the Golf.
I feel like the ones subsequent have just, you know, it's just facelift stuff.
It's sure. Of course, yeah, iteration stuff.
This still had a really good look to it, good personality.
I like the proportions.
That's excellent.
I was really thinking about, again, I'm thinking about the whole dealership thing.
And I found myself in the 1970s.
Oh, really? Which is a death of cars.
It feels like nothing.
I think about the 1970s like, what are the cars that really stand out in the 70s?
There's not a whole lot unless there's like the Mira or the introduction
of the Kuntas or crazy things like that.
But in the 70s, I'm going to go specifically to 1977.
Think about this. Really?
Because that was the last year the Beetle was sold in the US.
But here's the reason I landed on 77.
It's an era of cars, the Malaise era of cars, when it's hard to find
a lot of things to get excited about.
And the stuff we did get excited about, like the Fire Chicken Trans Am.
These were slow because of regulation, low power.
So even though they might have looked cool, things were slow.
It was really hard to find decently powerful, interesting cars.
I mean, even the Corvette and that kind of stuff.
This stuff was getting neutered right and left.
But what Volkswagen's doing in 77 is that thing that you and I talk about
where they've nailed their customer.
All of their stuff drives similarly.
You could take the badges off and you know exactly what it is.
Think about this 1977 line.
The Beetle, of course, is an icon.
The Rabbit or the Gulf, kind of like the one that Richard had
that we did our ice cream run piece with,
was also being sold as a GTI in this era.
But this is the iconic original Rabbit design that is super simple.
But we know from driving Richard's and from others, they're just endearing.
They have no weight.
Everything is manual.
And it just makes it so much fun.
But also in this era is the Soraco.
Soraco.
There's a Soraco cult.
Yes, there is.
Looks kind of like a squashed version of the Rabbit, but in a great, great way.
So that exists as well.
And Volkswagen was also selling their iconic van in multiple variations.
I like your point about taking badges off and you knew what kind of car it was.
And you cannot do that in today's era.
You haven't been able to do that for decades.
It's very, very hard.
Take the badges off.
Now, what is that?
And most people, they don't even know with the badge and the word right there.
Totally.
Also, if you got into any one of these, I've just shown you.
If you've driven them ever or you've driven a Volkswagen of that era,
I can show you these photos and you know how they drive.
You know how they drive.
You're like, I know what that's going to feel like to drive.
You know the lack of power going uphill.
But you know everything about how the steering is going to feel and what the gear box.
I can show you these photos if you've ever driven any of these and you know
exactly how every single one of them is going to drive.
So 1977 for me is because the rest of the market, you can't define it that well,
but Volkswagen has themselves nailed in 1977.
That early Soraco have like 90 horsepower or something like that.
It was, well, that was the problem.
All of these were low power, but they also didn't weigh anything.
That's very true.
I have one car for Volvo.
One car and one car only that I think is the peak of the Volvo brand going to 1995.
It is the 850 T5R wagon.
I wish this were available in manual transmission, but the yellow, bright yellow,
which is kind of antithetical to the Volvo brand would sort of don't look at me.
I'm invisible, powered by a five cylinder engine, 20 valve, 2.3 liter,
five cylinder engine delivering 10.9, nine pounds of boost pressure versus the
standard turbos, lower pressure of 9.6 pounds.
The result is 240 horsepower at 5,600 RPM, 221 pound feet of torque,
only weighing about 3,400 pounds.
And you could get this as a seven passenger with the two rear facing seats.
The boxy styling, the cool interior, the 850 T5R Volvo wagon with the cool wheels.
It was sporty, it was sensible, it was luxurious.
It looked expensive, but it wasn't too much.
And this is 90s, right?
This is 1995.
That's what I thought, yeah.
This is the peak for Volvo was it was sport.
It I mean, there was a race car version of this.
Yes, there was.
Which I loved that iconic photo of totally the wagon on two wheels
and being hooned around a track.
So it was there was racing, there was luxury, performance, there was sensibility.
It was safe.
It was a box.
It was that boxy styling is now very prevalent in almost every car
manufactured, that means luxury.
And here it is.
Interesting point, interesting point for so many years.
Like, oh, it's the it's the box the car came in and all the jokes.
But now everybody's trying to do the boxy shape and that means luxury.
Here it was in spades.
OK, and I think this car made the peak Volvo brand, like everything
that Volvo was known for.
This is this is the peak.
That's good, because I actually thought about this era a lot,
but I actually jumped further back because I was again, I was starting
to be influenced by what is the rest of the market doing as well?
And what's the reputation?
And I actually jumped further back than you where I went was 1985.
I'm a decade before you.
Middle of the eighties.
There's not a lot of great stuff going on.
But this Volvo 240, which is the box the car came in.
Yeah, this is such classic three box Volvo design.
And if you if you're thinking classic Volvo in your head right now,
yes, you're envisioning exactly what I'm showing on screen.
Yes, it's just the classic 240 boxy Volvo.
One of my friends, mom's had one of these that she swore by.
She bought nothing else but these.
This was also the car that I distinctly remember.
There was the commercial of driving it off of the end of a parking garage
and just nosing it right into the earth.
OK, because this is when Volvo had a reputation
that Subaru has since stolen from them.
And that is good in all weather and the safest thing on the road.
Volvo was this and the 240 was the flag bearer for that.
But also in 85 you had I can't think of cars that look more like Volvo than these.
The 740 with turbo.
The first time I saw a turbo bad badge on something was the 740 turbo,
which did come in manual. Yeah, it is super boxy.
It is total like DeLorean styling style.
Good. That is more interesting than the 240.
But that's the 740 in wagon.
They also made in sedan and wagon, which was great looking.
And that that is just a fantastically boxy, but still great looking wagon.
And then they also made the 760 the higher up Bertone.
Does more classic classy looking luxury version
in the 760 also available in turbo Volvo in 1985.
This is like Volkswagen a decade earlier where take the badges off
and nobody doesn't know what this is.
And not only are they luxurious, they're very unique looking
and they have this reputation for you bought one of the safest cars on the road.
The 240 has the distinction of some years.
There were no recorded crashes.
Oh, my gosh, of the 240, crazy, which is ridiculous,
which also says that the drivers are driving slowly,
but no recorded crashes for the model, which was selling well.
This was so funny.
A buddy of mine in high school inherited his mom's 240.
OK, and he took me somewhere that I have vivid memories of this
and I shut the door for the first time after getting in.
And I just thought there's no car door.
I've ever shut that felt so heavy and solid.
Yep, I can hear it.
It was a bank vault.
Yes. Of any sure metaphor.
It was just I shut the door and I was like, well, that's different.
And it was it was a used up 240 at that time.
Of course, manual.
And he loved driving and he was slow and who cares.
And it was just like, what am I riding in?
Nineteen eighty five Volvo and I'm leaving it there.
All right. Well, I guess that concludes
peak of all the brands I've covered.
That was a lot. It was good. It was a lot, though.
We didn't cover Old Mobile and we didn't cover Chrysler.
But true, you know, true.
Well, you know, they had they had some stuff.
But anyway, here we are.
I feel like we did it a little bit of justice.
But but yeah, right to us.
Topic Tuesdays, car conclusions, car debates for the future.
We love to pile those up and and we'll get to those in the future.
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Hooked on driving and every driver announcements
Friday, April 10 and Saturday, April 11 in the Pacific Northwest
at Ridge Motorsports Park, Shelton, Washington.
That's that's a great track.
We love that track.
So it's Friday and Saturday coming up and then three three events
on the same weekend, Saturday, April 18 and Sunday, April 19.
Three different events around the country starting off back
in California, Thunder Hill Raceway, two mile training day.
You're going to be there with your son, I am Bode on the two mile track.
Not only is it training day, but like I am actually bringing my son
for his first ever track day, the whole point here is the two mile side of
Thunder Hill actually like the whole five mile configuration.
But the two mile side not only is obviously shorter, but it's also a lot
more technical and it's funny because we've certainly met drivers
that hooked on driving that when we say two mile, they go, I'm not coming.
And I always think, well, you're the perfect person that should be coming
because the guys that don't like two mile, they are not always, not always,
but they are typically the people who have got a super powerful car
that's bigger.
And so when you put them on the confined space of the two mile,
where it gets technical and the corners get tight, they don't like it as much.
And I understand why, but a part of me goes, that's why you should come.
So this is what this whole event is set up for.
It's set up for just refining your driving, just figuring out when a corner is weird
and the two mile has some fantastically great weird corners.
When the corner is weird, where do I put my car?
It's I almost see it like this.
And it's one of the reasons I'm so excited to take my son.
It's less about learn this track and it's more about learn these kinds of corners.
Learn the fundamentals of that corner and use the skills to apply to any corner.
Exactly, because there's a lot of interesting corners on it.
So if you can come and you want to come, we still have the actual space.
The the novice groups are sold out, which is really cool because we wanted
that we're doing double novice groups and they're sold out.
I had to actually register early.
It's really crazy. I'm like, I better register quick.
Anyway, but so my son's going to be on track.
But B and C group are also running.
We're not running a full D expert group.
If you are interested, this is the time to come refine yourself.
Great instruction is happening.
It's going to be a slightly different configuration both days.
I'm very excited about it.
I have to talk it up because I'm coming, but I'm also just excited.
I'm excited to hear the results and I hope he does really well.
I hope he soaks up the information.
Same weekend, full throttle birthday bash for the Midwest hooked on driving
Midwest at Motorsport Park Hastings.
You and I have not been there, but everybody who has also like it.
Yeah, we really like it.
And that is the full course layout for Hastings and the same weekend, April 18th,
19th, hooked on driving in the Northeast.
That is at New Jersey Motorsports Park on the Thunderbolt track.
So if you've been to NJMP, there's two different tracks.
This is at Thunderbolt for that one.
So three different weekends all around the country.
Hooked on driving events.
They're doing TT, which is cool. That's right.
They're actually going to have the first time ever that HOD has done any time trial events.
There are specific rules.
We are not a racing organization, but for those of you that want to time yourself
and want to actually compete against others for time, they are doing some TT out there,
which we're pretty intrigued by.
So we're looking forward to hearing the result of that.
Also, Coda, if you haven't heard by now, we're going to Circuit of the Americas in Texas.
Yeah, we are.
May 30th and 31st.
That is a Saturday, Sunday, the weekend after Memorial Day weekend.
And we're going to be on track.
Todd and I will be there and we've got a huge number of people coming.
We're super excited.
And so if you've been thinking about it, if you've been on the edge,
there's still some space available as of this recording, but things are selling out.
They're starting to sell out in full.
Yeah, it's starting to completely block out.
It's going to be a massive couple of days, which is very cool.
Speaking of things that are essentially all but gone.
Pilgrimage, this actually may be the last time we talk about it,
because there's a couple of people circling the last spot.
There is one spot available as of this recording that may be gone by now.
But this is the way to go two days at the spot.
One day at the ring on a track day, but also tourist days mixed in between.
Bring your spouse.
It's going to be an amazing tourist week in Germany and Belgium.
I'm very excited.
August 2nd through 9th of this year.
And you can sign up right now at everydaydriver.com.
And you can also get there at hookedondriving.com.
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I had fun with these car debates.
I did, too.
These are some good ones where I start with Ben, who's writing in
because he has a Mini Cooper SE that was their first ever new car,
their first ever EV.
They bought it at his best description here.
I love it is it does exactly what it tells you it does.
He said, it actually feels like you're using an AI chatbot.
His description is you converse with it and you get a set of mechanical responses
that exactly answer your question or your query.
But while it's imitating soul, there's no actual soul.
It's apparent there's nothing there.
It's just a machine.
Now he is complimenting it because it's been perfect for them.
But the more he drives it, the more he relies.
It's, yeah, it's dirty.
It's quick. It's comfortable.
It's spacious. It's low maintenance.
But it's just I did what you asked me.
There's no drama.
There's no feeling executed perfectly with no flavor.
I agree.
So here's an SE on screen.
I found a photo of an SE and I really appreciate writing to us.
Ben, your association with AI and your association with how it drives.
I've always felt like many EVs, earlier EVs drive like lines of code.
I can feel the line of code telling the car to do what I'm trying to do.
I can feel the processors moving somehow.
I can't, but I just kind of feel like I can.
And so I think you're picking up on that.
And I like that Mini has gone down this road because of any car company
that we want smaller, lighter EVs, it should be Mini leading the charge.
Pun intended.
Nicely done.
But you're not feeling it.
You're not getting too much driving fun out of it.
Ben has had a lot of fun cars.
He inherited his folks.
Honda Odyssey drove that for five years before he sold it
and bought his realistic green dream car, which was an 01 Miata.
Learn how to drive that car.
And he he loved it.
He was part of a Miata club and just went booking through the back roads of Arkansas
and really learned how to drive those Arkansas twisties.
So it's full of theater and engagement.
Yes, that's what everybody loves.
And because of that history, that is what he's carrying forward into all of his.
This is what I'd like a car to feel like.
Yeah.
He's he's referencing that 01 Miata that he drove practically into the ground.
He bought a 2011 manual transmission Honda Fit.
And that was a reasonably fun commuter car that could actually just kind of do everything,
fit the family, etc.
It did the job for all of that.
But now that they've moved to central Ohio, the Miata just isn't getting miles.
He just wasn't driving it.
So he ended up selling it.
And that's when they wound up in the mini and we're circling ourselves around to you
can hear it.
This is a former Miata buyer wanting me out of fun and doesn't have it right now.
About a year ago, then and his family were considering selling the mini and the fit to
buy the new mini aceman on screen now.
But unfortunately, the US release of this got next.
So this is the concept version here on screen.
It's the larger, fatter, more bloated, ugly version.
I think they just dropped the P from the paceman.
Yes.
And turned it into the aceman.
And there's you know what?
There's still some styling elements that I do appreciate about this.
And could you keep doing the elliptical headlights forever?
Probably not because it does start to look dated.
So you have to come up with new shapes.
And I do appreciate the shapes relating around the car.
And it is the right size.
So I do like that you were looking at that.
Since that didn't happen in his wife ended up selling the fit
so they could buy an older 2015 Prius.
His wife loathed the fit, but now loathes the Prius because
it does exactly what it says on the tin.
He says it's soul something sucking gets the job done.
It was his wife's dream car, which is a win.
But wherever she goes, she takes the mini.
So the Prius has done exactly what they needed it to do.
It's been very efficient.
It's to do it all.
It's all those kind of things.
But the reality is, if she's driving for fun,
she still finds the mini more fun than the Prius has been,
even though it was kind of the dream car.
Despite Ben's descriptions of driving like AI chat bot.
Yes.
Yes.
So the new car, they want to get a new car.
They're going to get rid of the Cooper.
The mini is going to go.
It's got to be under $20,000,
which is they believe the sale price of the Cooper,
because again, electries have held no value and some savings.
They could do alone, but they'd rather not.
So ideally, the no loan version of this is under $20,000.
I will admit I broke it a bit,
but I'm going to talk both sides of the equation.
Ideally under $20,000, wanted to be fuel efficient.
So 40 miles per gallon plus,
since it'll be his daily commuter 70 mile round trip.
It's a lot of driving.
I don't know that we're going to be over 40 miles per gallon
on much of this.
I'm going to try, but I'm going to lean more
towards fuel efficiency since it is his commuter than fun
necessarily because it is, like I said, the commuter
and it's the distance miles per gallon.
The problem here is his third requirement,
and we've heard it.
Look, there's been paragraphs of this email
that are odes to the fun he's missing.
We're jumping over it because he just so wants fun.
His third category is it's got to be fun, responsive, dirty.
He likes lightweight with a fast steering rack, communicative.
He would love it even to be manual transmission
because he misses that from the fit.
He misses it from the mini,
but it's not a must because his wife doesn't really want manual.
But when I read this, I am aware of the fact
that he just is desperate for a car that talks back.
It's good.
And there's not anything.
He said two doors is actually okay.
It isn't necessary, but they do need four seats.
They don't have to have four doors.
He can take at least one young kid in a car seat.
So we do have some flexibility.
He is pretty much only looking at Honda, Mazda, and Mini
because he's owned those and liked them.
So we have to kind of branch him out here.
Did you see his Honda CRZ suggestion?
I mean, I did text the boxes.
Fuel efficient.
Yes.
Decently fun.
Could be a man's mission.
Yep.
But they are older.
I mean, they're like 68 grand.
And they're little.
They're really really little.
I mean, they're going to make the mini seem spacious.
I know that sounds crazy, but they are.
But I think but that starts to reference.
He says his dream cars are Lotus Elise,
Caterham 7 or Miata Exocet, which is essentially the caged.
We stripped down a Miata, put a bigger engine in it,
and made it a caged.
We were just at a hooked on driving event
where there was one.
And every time those guys went out, I went,
that is hardcore.
Hardcore, of course.
They were quick.
They were super quick.
So he likes light and involving,
which influences this whole thing so much.
I'm going to save your visceral car, Ben, for one of those.
This Elise, Caterham, the Exocet, all that stuff.
Because I know you're going to have one of these
in your life again.
But I don't know that you want to commute in any of those.
And to try to find something, like you said,
miles per gallon and fun to drive have been at odds with each other forever.
It's the rare CRZ that comes along.
It's the rare tiny thing.
Well, the Miata gets into the 30s, which is impressive.
But at the same time, that's kind of a unicorn here.
And it's not going to work.
It is.
And he writes at this stage in life,
comfort and efficiency are pretty important to make the budget work,
to make everything work.
And I'm going to check two of the boxes.
Fun isn't going to be super high on the list,
but I'm leaving fun aside because we know you can add something that is inexpensive
and we'll tick that box a little bit later.
The one that I thought of that you need
is the Cupra from Enter E hybrid.
It's the perfect car for you.
2021 used Cupra.
Overseas.
Yeah, you know the problem with that.
So we'll leave it there.
I also thought of the Kia EV6, the light or long range,
light, long range or wind is just over $20,000.
So in our ongoing sort of unspoken series about EVs that are off lease and cheap,
EV6 now is just over 20 and not sporty, fun, doesn't have the great steering,
but it could work.
And you said comfort and efficiency.
So that's where I'm leaning.
I'm so glad you brought up our shoot with Richard Grillo.
Moving to the Hyundai Sonata hybrid.
This is actually the best photo that I could find of it here on screen.
This is the back view of it, but imagine the current Sonata and the hybrid version of this
won the challenge.
If you haven't seen this video.
Spoiler alert.
This car won by a lot, by a long way.
We couldn't believe how efficient it was, yes.
And you know what?
It wasn't terrible to drive either.
It wasn't a fun sporty car, but it's large, spacious,
got incredible gas mileage and most of these used are about $21,000.
Really?
So this makes the budget work.
It's got the back seat.
Like I said, it's not the Miata.
It's not the fun front, you know, steering, but it is fairly decent.
And the way it drives, the way it carries itself,
there's something to this car.
I was, I came away actually more impressed than I thought.
Being hybrid, thinking, okay.
It drove very well actually, yeah.
Mileage conquers all.
So it's not going to be fun to drive.
And I was wrong.
It was actually kind of entertaining.
And again, the price is right.
The size is right.
The efficiency is right.
It's just not the Miata.
So while I was doing that, I came across all these other photos that I wanted to
share with everybody because these were some behind the scenes.
Just to reminisce a little bit, we ended at the Ridge Motorsports Park in Shelton,
Washington.
And here's all three of these cars.
Here's Richard's built.
I think it was a 77 rabbit that he kind of built into a GTI.
It's diesel, rabbit.
And here he is being a great sport in the rabbit.
That was incredibly fun car to drive.
So, so much fun.
Such a great looking car.
So I mean, you could choose a 77 diesel rabbit.
But see, he built it up with an early 2000s Jetta diesel in it.
So it had like more than twice the original horsepower.
That thing was really impressive.
Diesel rabbits get great mileage.
Yeah, they do.
They're tossable.
True.
They're manual.
They have Italian styling.
Jettos Rajarro.
Nicely done.
Nicely done.
And they're very spacious for their size.
I would not have gone there, but all right.
All right.
So some more so you can see we taped over the gas tank for all of these.
We taped over the Lucid's charging port.
We taped over the gas tank here until we determined the winner.
And Richard, again, being a very good sport.
Here we are filling the tank some behind the scenes photos.
Yeah, that's funny.
It's good stuff.
When, when he filled it and he was grumbling, but again, just.
He came in a very well-deserved second place behind that Sonata.
Yeah, it was very good.
Yes, he did.
So here we are.
Jordan was with us, Chance, and you're getting in.
So we were just prepping in the Griot's Motor Shop just before we went out.
And it was just, it was super, it's a superb build.
It's just the right touches.
And so, yeah, buy your car care from Griot's Garage because they're car folks.
They are car enthusiasts.
I love it.
And that proves it.
So here's a good interior shot of that.
And then I admit I pulled up my phone.
You really did.
I just thought some cool behind the scenes could come out.
So here's the Lucid and look how tiny this thing looks on the road.
Minute.
It's just minute.
And then my last wild card for you is just go get yourself 2014 Fiesta ST.
Manual front wheel drive, excellent gas mileage, not 40 plus, but still get a Fiesta ST.
It checks all the boxes.
They're well under $20,000.
You could spend half of that, get a great ST.
It's got a, well, backseat for kids.
Yeah.
But lots of fun.
Commuter, great to drive.
It's squirrely.
It just scrabbles and it's just fun.
And so that's my last wild card for you.
That's really good.
This is good stuff.
All right.
So I'm going to jump in here and talk to you a little bit about all of this, Ben,
because it's really intriguing to see where both of us went.
But I had a lot of fun with this on an auto tempest.
Specifically running around on auto tempest.
I'm going to start right here with the current model Honda Civic SI base.
I found one just under $25,000.
I'm showing it on screen.
43,000 miles, the Honda Civic SI base with a manual for 25 grand.
Now you said you didn't want to go over 20.
I've broken that.
I'm acknowledging it.
But it was interesting to see where these are.
And this was not the only one I found.
Okay.
But this is a current gen Civic SI, which means it's manual.
And I guarantee you it's going to be incredibly fun to drive.
And there's plenty of space in the back for kids.
You would really, really like this car.
This would be excellent.
Much more usable and modern than the CR-Z.
Actually, we are some of the rare guys that like the CR-Z.
I just think it's too small for what you're wanting.
I also want to caution you because, yes,
if you want to get into the 40 miles per gallon range,
Paul did a great job.
The Sonata is an excellent one.
But you really just give away fun.
The CR-Z does it the best, but I think it's too small.
I think it, so I see the CR-Z and I don't think you dislike it.
I just wonder how long you'd be until you'd go,
yeah, I need this to be bigger.
The SI is plenty of space.
It actually might even rival your Prius for space.
Okay, spend a little bit more.
You'd get this car.
It would be really, really fun.
So I have to talk about that one.
But while I'm also here, believe it or not,
Elantra N for 24 grand, 40,000 miles, a 2023 Elantra N.
That is a so much car for the money.
And I actually was searching specifically for DCTs.
So this is the auto as well.
Those are $25,000 now?
They are $25,000.
You said you were wondering about Kia and Hyundai engines.
Yes, there's been some questionable engines
that have come out of those companies,
but I don't hear issues with the N Motorsports engines.
I hear them with the low, low, the really small turbo ones
and that kind of stuff.
There was a 1.6 of memory serves that was really problematic.
I don't hear engine issues with these.
And we know a lot of people that track these
within an inch of their life and they hold up.
So Elantra N, this is in DCT.
Go to autotempus.com slash every day.
I'm showing one I found very easily by doing that.
Again, a little bit above your budget,
but tons of space, great to drive, actual DCT auto.
So the whole family could drive it.
And by the way, this gets mid 30s miles per gallon.
The Civic Si can get high 30s miles per gallon.
We're talking about highway miles now.
I'm not into the 40s, but I'm close.
And I've kept fun because I'm hearing fun
in this whole email from Ben.
So we've also got the Elantra, again, mid 30s.
That's such a great car.
I have to go there.
I'm not required by contract, but it sure feels like it.
The Alpha Julius Sport.
I thought you were going to say Chevy SS.
No, no, no, no, no.
Alpha Julius Sport, I'm showing one, a red one,
the Sport, which means it is the two liter four cylinder
for $20,000 with 35,000 miles.
And this is also not an outlier.
These are out there.
Okay.
Kind of mileage do you get on these?
Now, these get low 30s.
Highway is like 3133 somewhere in there.
The all wheel drive get less mileage,
but you don't need the all wheel drive.
Low 30s highway, mid to high 20s city.
Now, again, I'm not at the 40s that you wanted,
but there's fun here.
This is a great steering rack.
This is a decent engine.
It always feels more powerful than I think,
based on when I look up the stats.
So this is one example.
There's another one.
Here's the more luxury version, the Ti.
That is a cool dad car, man.
$14,000 for this one.
What's wrong with it?
Yes, I know.
So we had a 2020 sport or a 2017 Ti with 14,000 miles on it.
Now it's not the sporty spec.
It is the more luxury daily driver spec, but $14,000 for this
with less than 40,000 miles.
And here's the other thing about it.
You guys have to know behind the scenes.
We've turro'd these and they've held up as turro cars,
which is mind boggling.
Talk about a car that's getting beat on.
When they're the Village Bicycle, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
So I do have to bring up the Alpha Giulia,
because I think you'd love driving it,
and they're better than you think.
But my wild card was also my answer car.
And you and I aligned.
Fiesta ST, 2014 Fiesta ST on screen right now
for $9,000 with 96,000 miles.
The problem with the Fiesta.
Somebody buy this car.
Yes, the problem with the Fiesta is
most of them have got quite a bit of miles on them.
Yeah.
But everybody I know that has one,
that has a lot of miles, they just keep driving it.
Well, most of the ones you and I have driven recently
are 100,000 plus, and they feel tight.
So incredibly fun.
And the reality is, look, I'm showing you one here for $9,000.
Auto Tempest right now has them between 7 and 15.
Take your pick.
Now, these are manual only.
That is the downside.
But they get high 30s, highway miles per gallon.
And all of the fun you're looking for, Ben,
all of the fun is right here in this car.
Now, it's going to be busier.
You're talking about 70 miles of commute.
It's going to be buzzy and a little bit loud
compared to some of these others we talked about.
Okay, this Alpha TI is going to feel like a full-on luxury car
compared to the Fiesta ST.
But the Fiesta ST for around $10,000 is going to be,
I submit to you, as fun as anything you've ever driven,
and does all the dad stuff.
The problem is, it is manual only,
but these are such great cars.
You landed on it, I landed on it.
Ben, I think the thing is, you have to go drive one.
You do.
I think that's what that says.
You turn the wheel a millimeter.
They're so great.
Oh, there's more fun to be had.
They're so great.
It's just excellent.
Car debate number two comes to us from another Ben
who writes to us with the headline he knows.
He is aware because he needs help with his current garage
consisting of a 2018 Subaru Outback, a 1990 NA Miata,
seven motorcycles, two of which are track only.
Motorcycles are self-explanatory as is the Miata,
but he's getting more and more into tracking his bikes.
And this leaves the Subaru he writes,
it's been the perfect appliance car.
It's not an SUV.
You can tow a bike trailer behind it.
The all-wheel drive is invincible in New England winters
with snow tires.
There you go.
It's comfortable enough, invisible to the police,
use the word constables.
I haven't said that word in a while.
And it's important for his work.
Ben is an in-home, does in-home appointments
for home improvement sales.
The Subaru is the perfect thing to show up
at just about anybody's house.
I can totally see that.
You don't judge the guy in the Outback either way.
Not at all, yeah.
It has the room that he needs in the back for samples
without putting down the rear seats.
It's not ostentatious.
Nobody looks down on it as being too luxurious or fancy.
It's the smart practical car.
In a business where people are sizing you up
from the moment you enter the driveway,
it diffuses any assumptions that he's a construction bro
looking to rip them off,
and instead he looks like Ned Flanders.
Well, let's be honest.
If he pulled in in a lifted pickup,
as a construction guy that go,
of course he's got a lifted pickup.
If he pulls in in a luxury vehicle,
well, this guy costs too much.
Right.
He's nailed the center of the target somehow
with the Outback.
He also says, for suspicious New Englanders,
are New Englanders suspicious about everything?
All right, good to know.
He says, well, they're suspicious.
So the Subaru's getting up there in miles.
He drives between 35,000 and 40,000 miles in a year,
including regular 800 mile round trips
to visit his out-of-state sun.
It's time to start thinking about a replacement.
So again, his motorcycle track activities
have been ramping up,
and he wants a toy hauler for the track,
and he wants a towing capacity of at least 7,000 pounds.
He only has enough room for two cars in his driveway.
So he wants something that is reliable,
that'll go well past 200,000 miles inconspicuous.
It cannot make his customers eyebrows raised.
So no Lexus, Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, none of those.
Non-car people and suspicious New Englanders
think differently about all those brands.
Okay, good to know.
All right.
And the Miata is fantastic,
but he's willing to sell it because there's times
he hasn't wanted to drive it
if there's a big highway trip involved.
So does he get a dedicated track camping cargo van
and get a smaller sports or sports-oriented car
to drive year-round?
He gives an example.
Like a used Chevy Express 2500 cargo van
and an Acura Integra or a GTI manual hatch for everyday use.
Or does he get something like a Toyota Tacoma V6 and a Boxster
or a M or two-series BMW or a newer Miata?
He'd rather not get that full-size pickup
because of perception, because of space and maneuverability.
He much prefers wagons over SUVs and CUVs.
He's looking for both cars to be used,
but the everyday car has to have been made
in the last four years.
And if it's going to be the tow vehicle,
he can go with an older fun car.
He does basic maintenance on his cars himself,
and he'd like to keep the budget at about $45,000
for both cars with a pole limiter at $55,000.
So the key thing here is he would like to maintain some fun,
but he'd like also to tow about 7,000 pounds,
which takes tons of things off the table.
A 7,000-pound towing capacity gets him
into a toy hauler fifth wheel for track and towing.
And 7,000 is a dividing line.
Because so much stuff does 5,000.
Right.
To get up to 7,000,
you almost instantly wind up in full-size pickups.
You can get Tacomas, you can get Colorado's.
These exist, but instantly you get into that.
That is the real struggle here.
And then he would ideally like a fun car,
but then there's the flip side.
Here's the flip side.
If we get him into something heavy-duty to tow
that he can't use as a daily cause of perception,
then the other car's got to have perception.
Or we can get him into something that tows
that doesn't have a perception problem,
and then we can get him into a fun car,
but doesn't have to worry about it.
Because he does say here,
the Miata would be driven more
if it had better highway manners and comfort.
He's got a 1990.
That is an NA Miata.
That is as early as he gets.
So something more modern,
nicer to be on the highway,
it'd get driven more.
He'd actually take it on some of his fun drives
that aren't work-related,
because he can't take the NA Miata right now,
because it's just too much for a drive like that.
I think I've threaded the needle here,
but this is hard.
I'm changing my mind on the fly.
Actually really digging into this and rereading it.
Then I have the new 2026 Subaru Outback Wilderness on screen.
We just drove this,
so hopefully you've seen that piece,
because the Wilderness version tows 3,500 pounds.
And you're asking for a lot more towing than that,
but this is, I hate to admit it,
the absolute peak,
the pinnacle for what you're looking for.
It's the do-it-all.
It'll take the miles.
It'll go off-road.
Nobody looks down on it.
Well, I'm paying you too much for your business,
so it could work.
And I was also initially thinking as well
that V60 Volvo wagon from 2019.
Sure, sure, yeah.
Somewhere in there.
I thought this would be good.
This is always, checks the box between luxury, sport,
not too expensive, not too, the perception about it is,
but I'm almost coming back to Cayenne because of 7,000 pounds.
I know, I know.
I'm coming back to Cayenne.
Now, for the mileage that you do,
you're going to have to maintain it.
But anything that you buy,
you're going to have to keep up on the maintenance.
I don't care what kind of car it is.
True, true, true.
I'm just thinking Cayenne
because they're decently fun to drive and it tows a lot.
And it's still, the generation you have is still smaller.
I think the newer Cayennes are just a little bit bigger.
And they're, of course, more expensive.
So go back and find the nicest Cayenne you can.
And you know what?
It can be the base engine
because yours has proven to me that it has held up.
You've maintained it.
You've beat the snot out of it.
It's 170,000 plus miles.
So it's getting close to the 200,000 threshold
that you asked for, Ben.
So base Cayenne.
I'm just, base Cayenne.
Here's the funny thing about this, Ben,
and the reason that I'm laughing is because
when I read your email, through the entire email,
I just kept thinking, the answer is a Cayenne
except for when you pull down that person's driveway.
That's the only problem.
And they see the Porsche badge and they assume,
here's the thing, you could go out right now.
I guarantee you, Ben, you could get a Cayenne
that you like, that does all the towing that you want to do,
that it's a solid Cayenne and it could cost you $15,000.
But you're going to pull down that person's driveway
and they're going to go, this guy drives a Porsche?
Yep.
And in that scenario, I bet you,
the Porsche you drove down their driveway
costs less than whatever they have in their garage,
but they're going to see that badge.
The only reason I'm not recommending the Porsche Cayenne, Ben,
because honestly, everything else in your email,
it's the answer.
It is the answer.
Except perception is the problem.
So I thought long and hard about this,
because Colorado's can tow that much,
some Tacomas can tow that much,
but he really also wants fun.
And he wants fun.
He can drive distance, which gets us toward Cayenne
or gets us to second car.
So I'm assuming you are selling the Miata.
We're going for something that,
we're getting rid of the outback.
We're going for something that can tow
and also something that can be fun.
For one car?
No, I'm going to, I got to do two cars.
Okay.
But I think I've found the innocuous one
that does the towing.
Really?
I'm kind of excited about where I ended up.
Okay.
I got to go there.
Here's where we're going to start,
because I think this is your tow answer,
the Dodge Durango RT.
And here's why I say this.
If you get the tow pack,
the base versions of these tow about 5,500 pounds,
which is not enough.
But it's, if you get a tow package on pretty much any of them,
it jumps up to about 6 to 6,700 to 7,000.
You can get the heavy duty ones that tow almost nine.
Okay.
Depending upon the tow package.
The Dodge Durango, I think hits that middle ground
where the outback does,
because Dodge is not a luxury brand.
And depending on where you are in the country,
the cops might drive these.
So that innocuous thing you want to be ignored by the cops,
the cops drive Durangos.
And unless you get the big full, full bore Hellcat,
which you're not going to with your budget.
No.
But the Durango, it's got a little bit of attitude,
but they've been around for so long.
And it's a Dodge product.
I don't think anybody sees a Dodge pull down,
the Dodge Durango pull down their driveway
and be like, well, I don't like this guy.
It's just, you bought a Dodge SUV.
Get it in white so you'll be inconspicuous,
but don't get it in white so your customers
don't think the cops are pulling into their driveway.
But get it here.
I'm showing it in red on purpose
because I like cars in colors.
You'll be invisible.
I don't think this gives the impression of a lot of wealth.
No, no.
So buy a Dodge Durango with the tow package.
I'm showing one right here with 85,000 miles.
It's a 2018 for $28,000.
So Dodge Durango has the towing capacity you need.
RT and UP is probably where to aim
because the base models, they don't get as much.
So actually dig in.
Actually, what you need to do,
you got to pull the VIN of the one you're looking at
and make sure on Carfax, it has the tow package.
You can't just randomly buy one.
But this tow is everything you need it to do.
And I think it's innocuous enough.
And I don't think it gives a brand perception
that the Porsche would do.
So now we're buying the separate fun car.
And I thought about how can I get you
a separate fun car that's roughly 10 to 15.
That you could take on a long trip
because the NA Miata isn't working.
And I have two for you.
First off, 2006 Boxster base.
Now the problem with Boxsters,
I was capping this at 20 grand.
The problem with Boxsters is they bounced.
The only ones you're getting for around 20 grand now
or less are actually the base models.
The S's have gone back up.
Have they really?
Which is interesting.
Of this gen?
So yes.
So this is a base model, which is still a really good car.
And it is a road trip car.
While being a, because you said you like put the top down.
Road trip convertible, you could totally do that.
But you could also drive cross country in this.
This is a luxury place to be.
And then you love your Miata so much,
but you can't road trip in it.
You can in the third gen, the NC.
This is, now here's the thing.
With a $20,000 capper, I found a lot of third,
Indie threes, current gen.
I found a lot of those both in convertible and RF hardtop.
But they're not as big as the NC.
The NC is the place for road trips in a Miata.
I have almost bought an NC more times than I can count.
I've gotten so close.
We've had so many little used car things
that I keep kind of circling about.
Is this the time I get an NC now?
I think it's in one of our futures.
When my son was shopping for cars,
this was my big pitch.
My wife was like, no Miatas.
But anyway, which she's right.
But anyway, so this is a hard,
I'm showing a hardtop NC Miata right now,
a 2008 grand touring for 12,500 with 90,000 miles.
But the other one I have here is a 2008 for 14 grand
with 70,000 mile blue with 10 interior.
That looks gorgeous.
Great.
This is a big enough Miata that you and someone else
could travel in it.
Hardtop for all weather, which makes it, I think,
even better for closing out the elements
than the Boxster would be.
And it has an actual trunk.
And he can turbocharge it like Jordan's done with his.
He could do all of the above.
All the power.
But 14,000 dollars roughly here for this 2008
really beautiful blue MX-5.
And 30 ish for the Durango with the tow package.
He can tow.
He can be innocuous with the samples,
but he can road trip his Miata for the first time ever.
That's where I'm landing, Ben.
I'm pretty excited about it.
Nailed it, actually.
Durango is the trick.
I think you've done very well.
Because Cayenne's the answer, but Durango's the trick.
It's the perception problem.
It is.
And the Durango nobody cares.
Nobody cares.
Nobody will even notice unless it's in light.
If it was a Hellcat.
Yes, but short of that.
And he doesn't, he can't afford it anyway.
So there you go.
Durango.
Wow.
You've done extremely well, Ben.
Thank you for writing, Ben and Ben.
Yes, thank you both of you guys.
It's awesome.
Really appreciate your emails.
Write to us.
EverydayDriverTV at gmail.com.
Top of Tuesdays.
Things that CEOs say.
Those, Ben, finding your old cars.
Yes, I love that too.
That's good.
Write to us those stories.
We're loving those.
And yeah, love to hear from you.
Chris D writes to us, said he originally
messaged us saying that he was zoning in
on trading in his Honda Civic Hybrid
for a Toyota Crown.
But he's got an ultimate conclusion
in case we're interested in knowing.
Yes, we're interested.
He ended up buying a Mazda CX50 Premium Hybrid
and he couldn't be happier.
Good, good.
The Mazda gets 39 MPG in daily commuting.
He says only seven miles per gallon shy
of what he was getting in his lighter and smaller Civic.
That's pretty good.
That's good.
The added Bose sound system, higher ride,
slightly more comfortable tuning, interior space for his dog.
Love it.
He says it's a good upgrade for him.
He misses the flickable nature of the Civic
when he's in traffic, but he's surprised
by the agility of the Mazda.
What we just talked about on our recent piece.
Yeah.
So now he's thinking about adding a third fun car.
There you go.
Not a car he would track, but that's coming, Chris.
But a car he could buy to break up the SUV monotony.
He says even though the Mazda isn't enormous,
he will never unfeel the ease of driving the Civic
by comparison.
Civics are great.
Yeah, you could get that third gen Miata.
So then you have the CX50 and the third gen.
Apparently, I just keep circling those.
We'll see.
Try to drive the values of those up and I hope not.
Because I still would like to get one.
Moving on.
Yes. Okay.
That's great stuff, Chris.
Thanks for sending in.
I'm glad you like that car.
Again, if you haven't seen our brand new outback
versus Mazda CX50 piece, it's on this channel right now.
It's a comparison we were actually surprised by.
And thanks to Mark Miller Subaru for giving us
a brand new outback out of their fleet to work with that.
That was really good.
Brian has an interesting question.
He travels a lot.
He rents a lot of cars.
And that means when he gets into a car,
every single time he's got to set it up.
He's got to do the mirrors.
He's got to do the seat.
He's got to find how the HVAC works.
He's got to figure out all of the turn off of these systems
and turn these systems on and pair up his phone
and all the kind of stuff.
Every single brand is new and different.
How do we handle this?
Because we get into cars constantly.
He says, does somebody come along and show us?
Now, Brian, we do have people on the press fleet side
that can answer questions.
But the reality is, Paul and I have to do exactly
what you're doing.
We have to get in the car and go,
so where is that on this car?
Where's the mode button?
Where's the...
Oh, the mirrors are...
Okay, okay.
But why is the start button there?
Why is this having an extra step for connecting my car play?
Why does this seat not move in a way that makes sense?
This is every single car we get.
It never gets easier.
Every single time you and I get a press car,
one of us finds something the other one doesn't.
That's true.
And we'll be in it and one of us will go,
oh, do you see this?
The other one's like, no, I had no idea.
And we trade off.
That's true.
And it's also the reason why I'm not proud of this at all.
It's also the reason why every now and then we just miss something.
We're driving a new car sometimes two every week,
and sometimes we miss a feature or didn't find it or whatever.
It's not for lack of trying.
I guarantee you, Brian, you are in good company here
because every little car is different.
Kirk Meyer asks what car brand offers the most
and most interesting palette of standard colors.
No paint to sample or special order without doing,
you know, pulling up the websites of all the car manufacturers.
What I have sensed is color in general
is making its way back into cars,
but in neutral, sophisticated color palettes of those.
And I'm seeing Kia's and Hyundai's offering quite a bit more colors.
Honda's certainly up there.
They're making some cool, cool colors.
And it's a variety.
It's not just following color trends.
I think white and silver are still trending like crazy.
But yeah, I don't think they follow trends.
I think it now just follows, you know, a broader range.
And you can start to get stuff that in colors
that you never, never before could.
So Toyota offers quite a few colors that are great.
That's why I love the Everest on my forerunner.
And they're coming out with that ocean blue
on the forerunner as well on all the TRD versions.
That's coming soon.
And I like that.
But I kind of wanted it, but it's it's very beach-ish
and not very mountainish to me.
It's very color.
You got it.
I still really like the Everest.
It's a blue green.
But I think car companies are paying more attention to it
more than ever.
And they just haven't done the palette of, you know,
the same beiges and that kind of stuff.
But of course, it depends on the model, too.
Ian Meyer asks pros and cons.
We're talking tires.
It's one of my favorite things.
Pros and cons of high performance all season
versus high performance summer tires.
The Internet.
Uh oh.
The Internet has convinced him that he's going to die
if he drives Michelin PS4s below 40 degrees.
Oh.
So he's wondering if he should put something else on there
like a Vretishtine ultra high performance all season
for year round use in North Carolina area where he is
winter lows or 20s, 30s, highs or 40s, 50s.
So Ian, I'm going to assume a couple of things here.
First time I'm going to assume you want one set of tires.
You don't want to swap tires for seasons,
which is the ideal way to do it.
Exactly.
The Michelin PS series is an excellent round of tires.
The fours, the five, they're excellent.
They're very good tires.
They're very good summer performance tires.
Okay.
You're not going to die if it's below 40 degrees.
What you are going to do, especially if you drive a car
where you can really feel changes is below 40 degrees.
They turn into hockey pucks.
You can feel when I used to drive my FRS or RGR 86,
and we would have the wrong tires on for a flash cold, right?
You went out in the morning and it was 29 degrees out there.
You could feel it in the tires.
You were on wagon wheels.
They were just rock hard.
And so instantly you knew there's no grip in these tires.
Be very ginger.
Be very careful.
You can do it.
You're not going to die, but the tires aren't good for that.
So what I think you need is an all weather tire,
like the all track pro that my wife has on her Cayenne.
Yeah, that's great.
They are designed to be an all weather, including some snow.
So she, and again, the Cayenne's go through tires
because they're just heavy, all right?
But we drive that car year round, anything we need it to do.
We don't apologize for it on corners,
but we also drive it in the winter.
Now I'm going to make one other big assumption, Ian,
and that is you are not a driver that drives
such high performance.
You need something like a PS4.
If you are looking for high performance driving,
we need to start talking about two different sets of tires.
But what I'm guessing because you're talking about
pardon me, a high performance all season
is that you don't drive to the edges of your PS4s anyway.
So you don't need that kind of driving,
and you're not tracking.
So you can dial back the summer performance
for an all weather, all year tire.
I'm going to change my answer from last podcast
up to go and asks if we had the opportunity
to add something to the Subaru lineup.
Oh, okay, I remember this.
Using current parts, Ben.
Like it?
I answered it before,
and I don't like my answer from last time.
I think Subaru should embrace van life.
They have the culture around their brand.
That's a good point.
Van life, they take the boxer engine,
put it in the rear of a Subaru van.
Make the new van again.
The new van again with all wheel drive,
Subaru all wheel drive.
A boxer engine with tons of power back there,
and all the suit, it looks like Subaru.
Imagine the Subaru van.
The Subaru version of the classic Volkswagen style van.
That's a great answer because.
The Subaru van again.
Yes, yes.
Redoing that, it's the Subaru van life,
dogs and camping and van life.
You're totally right.
With everything, the perception,
and it now sits at the top end.
They've got a van that is unique in the marketplace,
using their boxer engine,
hanging behind the rear axle with all wheel drive.
The only competition they had was the ID Buzz,
which is fumbled because it's an EV.
And now do that, Subaru.
Subaru van life box.
It's the new van again.
I think people would eat it up.
I think, I think we'll leave it there.
I think you've might dropped on that idea
because I think it's great.
Yeah, really good.
Thank you for all your questions.
Keep them coming.
Keep cool new ideas coming.
Yeah, the Vin thing, the thing CEO say,
seem to be resonating with you guys,
which is dang funny.
Let's always be on the lookout for things CEO say.
They say a lot.
Be watching from here on out
and come to one of our hooked on driving events,
hooked on driving.com.
You can find great track days.
The spring driving schedule is ramping up now.
There's great events nationwide.
And of course, the pilgrimage trip.
We want you on that.
We want you at Kota.
And we want you on adventures with us in the future too.
We're always looking forward to next time.
It's crazy. I love it.
Cheers, everyone.
About this episode
Hyundai and Kia steal the early spotlight with new concepts and EV updates, including Hyundai’s body-on-frame Boulder concept and Kia’s multi-powertrain 2027 Seltos plus EV3 range/trim details. The hosts then “peak” their way through brands, arguing Porsche’s 2011 lineup (manual GT3/GT3 RS/GT2 RS) and comparing it to other eras like 1987 Porsche. The show expands into Ram TRX, Rivian R3, Rolls Royce Phantom, Subaru’s peak years, Tesla’s Model S era, and Toyota/Volkswagen/Volvo picks. Listener Q&As focus on finding commuter-fun cars under $20k and a towing-capable, low-perception track setup.
Original notes
For Topic Tuesday, the guys finish up their ‘Peak’ car series, covering Porsche - Volvo. They debate choices for Ben E., who needs a fun commuter to replace his MINI Cooper SE, which drives like you would imagine a chatbot would drive. Then, Ben G. in New England has a towing conundrum, alongside his work vehicle needs. Social media questions ask how the guys figure out all a car’s features on press cars, what car brand offers the most interesting palette of standard colors, and Paul changes his answer from last episode…
Audio-only MP3 is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and 10 other platforms.
Look for us on Tuesdays if you’d like to watch us debate, disagree and then go drive again!
00:00 - Intro
00:48 - Hyundai Boulder Concept Introduced At NY Auto Show
04:15 - KIA Introduces 2027 Seltos & EV3
07:54 - Topic Tuesday: Peak Porsche - Volvo
53:46 - EDD + HOD Adventures And Events
57:48 - Car Debate #1: Longing For A Car That Talks Back
1:15:25 - Car Debate #2: Innocuous, Some Fun, Some Towing
1:28:13 - Audience Questions On Social Media
Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to our two YouTube channels. Write to us your Topic Tuesdays, Car Conclusions and those great Car Debates at [email protected] or everydaydriver.com
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