Petrol Ped - Driving The 911 GTS Hybrid And The ICE Cayman / Boxster Are BACK!
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Concept
plug-in hybrid
A plug-in hybrid is a car that can run on electricity for a while and also uses gasoline. You can charge it at home, which helps save on fuel costs and is better for the environment.
Car
Porsche Taycan
The Porsche Taycan is a fancy electric car made by Porsche. It's known for being fast and having a lot of cool tech inside.
Term
all-electric car
An all-electric car is a vehicle that only uses electricity to run. It doesn't have a gasoline engine, so it doesn't produce any exhaust fumes, making it better for the environment.
Car
Land Rover Range Rover
The Land Rover Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can handle rough terrains while also being very comfortable inside. They recently made a version that uses both gas and electricity, which is great for saving fuel and being more environmentally friendly.
Car
Bmw X5
The BMW X5 is a high-end SUV that combines luxury and performance. It's available with different types of engines, including hybrid ones that use both gas and electricity.
Term
V8 engine
A V8 engine has eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. This setup helps the engine produce more power, which is why it's often found in fast cars and trucks.
Term
inline six-cylinder engine
An inline six-cylinder engine is a type of engine that has six cylinders lined up in a row. This setup helps the engine run smoothly and provides good power.
Term
0-60 time
0-60 time is how long it takes a car to go from a complete stop to 60 miles per hour. It's a way to see how fast a car can speed up.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.
Term
EV
EV means electric vehicle. It's a car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline, making it better for the environment.
Term
AC charger
An AC charger is a device that you can use to charge electric cars at home. It provides electricity in a way that is slower than some public charging stations.
Term
DC charging
DC charging is a faster way to charge electric cars compared to regular home chargers. You usually find these at public charging stations.
Term
granny charger
A granny charger is just a regular home outlet that you can use to charge an electric car. It's not as fast as special chargers, but it works for overnight charging.
Term
three pin cable
A three pin cable is a type of plug that has three metal prongs. It's used to connect electrical devices to the power supply in your home.
Term
rapid charging
Rapid charging is a way to quickly charge an electric car's battery. However, using it too often can be bad for the battery's long-term health.
Term
home charger
A home charger is a device you can use at home to charge your electric car. It's usually slower than chargers you find at gas stations but is convenient for daily use.
Term
fuel economy
Fuel economy tells you how far a car can go on a certain amount of gas. If a car has good fuel economy, it means it doesn't use much gas for the distance it travels.
Term
battery component
The battery in a hybrid or electric car is what stores energy to help it run. A bigger battery usually means the car can go further before needing to be charged.
Car
Land Rover Defender
The Land Rover Defender 110 is a tough SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road driving. It's a great choice for people who like to explore outdoors or need a strong vehicle for different driving conditions.
Term
two-liter petrol engine
A two-liter petrol engine is an engine that can hold two liters of fuel in its cylinders. This size is often found in cars and can give a good mix of power and fuel economy.
Term
four-pot
A 'four-pot' engine is a car engine that has four cylinders. These engines are usually smaller and can be less powerful than larger engines, which might make them work harder when you need more power.
Term
energy recuperation mode
Energy recuperation mode helps recharge the car's battery while driving, especially when slowing down. It saves energy that would otherwise be wasted when you brake.
Term
MPG
MPG means 'miles per gallon' and tells you how far a car can go using just one gallon of gas. Higher MPG means the car is more fuel-efficient.
Car
Ferrari V12
The Ferrari V12 is a powerful engine with twelve cylinders. It's famous for being used in some of Ferrari's best sports cars, known for their speed and unique engine sound.
Term
WLTP
WLTP is a way to test how much fuel a car uses and how much pollution it produces. It helps buyers compare different cars based on these numbers.
Term
miles per kilowatt hour
Miles per kilowatt hour is a way to measure how far an electric car can go using a certain amount of electricity. It helps you understand how efficient the car is.
Term
electric power train
The electric power train is what makes an electric car go. It includes the battery and motor that work together to move the car without gas.
Part
brake pads
Brake pads are the parts in a car that help stop it by pressing against the wheels. In electric cars, they can last a long time because the car uses a special system to slow down without using them much.
Part
brake discs
Brake discs are the round metal parts that the brake pads press against to help stop the car. In electric cars, they can last longer because of a system that helps slow the car down without using them as much.
Term
regenerative braking
Regenerative braking is a system in electric cars that helps recharge the battery when you slow down. It also makes the brakes last longer because they don’t have to work as hard.
Term
internal combustion engine
An internal combustion engine is a common type of engine that runs on fuel like gas or diesel. It works by burning the fuel inside the engine to create power that moves the car.
Company
Polestar
Polestar is a brand that makes electric cars and is part of Volvo. They focus on making cars that are fast and environmentally friendly.
Car
BMW E63
The BMW 6 Series is a fancy car that comes as either a coupe or convertible, known for being stylish and fun to drive. It's a great option for people who want a luxurious car that also feels sporty.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a fast and powerful version of a regular BMW sedan, designed for people who love driving. It combines luxury features with a sporty feel, making it a great option for someone who wants both comfort and excitement.
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a smaller SUV that still has the sporty feel of a Porsche. It's designed to be comfortable and stylish while also being fun to drive.
Car
Tesla Model
The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV that doesn't need gas and is known for being very efficient and high-tech. It's roomy inside and has a lot of cool features, making it a popular choice for families and tech lovers.
Car
Hyundai Ioniq 5N
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is a new electric car that looks modern and has a lot of space inside. It's designed to be eco-friendly and has a long driving range, making it a good choice for people who want to go electric.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that looks unique and is known for being really fast and fun to drive. Newer versions even have hybrid options, which means they can use both gas and electricity to run.
Car
Lancia Lambda
The Lancia Lambda is an old car that was important for its time because it introduced new ideas in how cars were built. It's a classic example of early automotive innovation.
Car
Toyota Prius
The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gas and electricity to drive, making it very good on fuel. It's one of the first cars to be popular for being environmentally friendly, so people often think of it when talking about hybrids.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a fun sports car that you can drive with the top down. It's known for being very quick and handling well, making it a favorite for people who love driving.
Car
Porsche Cayman
The Porsche Cayman is like a Boxster but with a solid roof instead of a convertible top. It's also a sporty car that is loved for how well it drives and feels on the road.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV that offers a lot of space and comfort while still being fun to drive. It's a good choice for people who want a sporty feel in a larger vehicle.
Car
Audi S5
The Audi S5 is a sportier version of the regular Audi A5, designed to be faster and more fun to drive. It still has all the luxury features you expect from an Audi, making it a great choice for car lovers.
Car
MG Cyberster
The MG Cyberster is a new electric sports car that looks cool and is designed to be fast. It's part of MG's effort to make a comeback in the sports car world with a focus on being eco-friendly.
Car
Aston Martin DBX
The Aston Martin DBX is a luxury SUV that offers the elegant style of Aston Martin in a bigger, more practical vehicle. It's designed for people who want a fancy car that can also carry more passengers and cargo.
Car
Rolls-Royce Phantom
The Rolls-Royce Phantom is one of the most luxurious cars you can buy, known for its incredible comfort and high-quality materials. It's a car that many people dream of owning because it represents ultimate luxury.
Car
Bugatti Veyron
The Bugatti Veyron is an extremely fast and expensive car that is famous for being one of the quickest in the world. It's a showcase of advanced engineering and design, making it a dream car for many.
Car
Tesla Model X
The Tesla Model X is an electric SUV that doesn't need gas and has some really cool features, like doors that open upward. It's spacious and has a long driving range, making it great for families.
Car
Alpine A110S
The Alpine A110 is a small, lightweight sports car that is really fun to drive. It's designed to be quick and nimble, making it a great choice for people who love driving.
Car
Citroen Ami
The Citroen AMI is a small electric car made for driving around the city. It's easy to park and has a simple design, making it a good choice for people who need a quick and convenient way to get around town.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Eclass
The Mercedes-Benz E-Class is a stylish and comfortable luxury car that offers a smooth ride and lots of high-tech features. It's a popular choice for people who want a nice car that feels special.
Car
Jaguar Xjs
The Jaguar XJ-S is a classic luxury car that looks really nice and is fun to drive. It's known for being stylish and powerful, making it a favorite among car collectors.
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Chevrolet, together, let's drive.
Sometimes I have to remind myself that I love cars
because there are lots and lots of people out there
that don't love cars.
They just have to buy one to do a job.
Very difficult.
And that job might be taking the kids to school.
It might be commuting to work.
And they don't love cars.
And therefore, they start having other things
that are important to them, whether that's fuel economy,
whether that's environmental things, whatever it might be.
That, for me, is the kind of plug-in hybrid market.
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to the Car Chat podcast.
And with me today, I have Mr. Pete Groves,
petrol pad, hello.
Hello, mate.
It's very good to see you.
Good to see you.
This is...
We were talking about what number this is.
This is a number of few.
You've been on it a few times.
Yeah.
The first time, it was one of the first times I ever met you,
was when you lived in London in that lovely muse house.
Oh, yeah, you came to my house.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I still tell people how lovely that house was
because I've always wanted to live in a muse,
so quite jealous there.
And we were weirdly talking about opening doors.
And you've just done your garage and the style of doors.
That is what I had there.
Yeah.
Many...
Let's not talk about my garage and my incorrectly sized doors.
One car, so they're too big.
So it turns out standard sized garage doors
are not big enough for a standard sized car.
They're not really no...
That's the takeaway.
Yeah.
And I think I bring so many different cars home to not...
And the worst thing actually was I couldn't get the...
It was a Taycan I was trying to get in.
I couldn't get it in and my charger is in the garage,
so I couldn't actually charge it up
because I couldn't get it in the garage.
And you can't just jump a lead a charger to another charge.
No, it's got a long cable on it, but it's not that long.
You're three pinning it, yeah.
And if you've got enough...
I mean, this is pretty horrendous chat,
but is your garage deep enough?
Because some cars are freaking long.
Yeah, it's got two bays and one slightly longer than the other.
And unfortunately, the long bays,
the one I generally keep my car in that's in there all the time.
The other ones, you can get most things in.
It's fine.
Most things in, yeah.
It's a bit...
I've got a bike hanging on the wall.
That's my gauge.
If the back tailgate starts to touch the pedals of the bike,
I know it's not gonna fit.
And I imagine actually the pedals of a bike,
a nice bit of like metal or whatever they're made of magnesium
or something, just like a light.
The one that did it, I had the GT3 RS in,
and that's got that massive wing on the back.
And obviously there's no reversing sensors on the wing.
And then backing it in and suddenly I suddenly went,
oh my God, the wing.
I'm kind of looking out the back
to hope I hadn't written my bike off
and smashed all the rear carbon off of the wheel.
Yeah, yeah, some nice off-road pedals.
Just like just finely scratched.
Yeah, so the reason I wanted to get you on the podcast,
there was a few sort of topics that I won.
I wanna have a bit of a catch up,
a bit of a chat, see what you've been up to.
And then there's a sort of couple of topics
that I thought we could just generally discuss a little bit.
We might as well lead in and then see where we go
on the first one.
It's...
Yes.
So the first one is FEVs versus EV.
And then also sort of,
I love asking these sorts of questions.
I go, this is the simple question, FEV versus EV.
And then I go, and then, and then,
and then I just keep going and adding tacky stuff on.
But basically, I think the FEV versus EV equation
has sort of, I think we're in the second life
of this equation.
Cause when this...
Yeah.
I don't know if you can give me your opinion on that.
Cause I feel like it's becoming, it's changed.
In the last like year or two,
it's almost like it's changing again.
Yeah, I mean, I agree.
And first things first, there's so much to talk about
cause as someone who reviews cars,
whenever you review a plug-in hybrid,
the comments are always filled with people
that basically say, well, why don't you just buy
an all-electric car?
And you know, with a plug-in hybrid,
you've got an engine and an electric car,
and it's not good at either of those things.
And to some extent, I understand that.
However, I am a big plug-in hybrid fan.
And I think the big change that's happened
in the last few years is the length of,
or if you like the range,
all electric range that these cars have.
I remember a few years ago now
when Range Rover bought out a plug-in hybrid,
and it would do like six miles,
all electric, doesn't it?
And it was almost the case that they put
the electric motor and battery in there to tick a box,
to kind of, to help people get lower benefiting kind
on a company car.
It was no good as an electric car at all.
I've actually got the BMW X5 plug-in hybrid
this week on test.
Yes.
And I literally got delivered yesterday.
I drove it for the first time this morning
in preparation for recording this podcast.
Oh, yeah.
And that'll do.
Just show us 60 miles all EV.
And which engine is that one?
Or version?
It's the, I'll pull up the spec sheet
while I've got, it's the big, fast, powerful one.
Oh, so it's the V8 one?
The 50.
Yeah, it's probably a million pounds.
And we pull up the spec sheet and I'll,
I can talk about it, but yeah.
But that for me, I think that's a big change
because suddenly these cars, they make sense
because you can actually use them.
It's the X-Drive 50.
So it has, everyone's shouting and probably going,
you should know this already by now.
It's the three leads to straight six.
Okay.
So there's a 55?
483 horsepower, normal to 60 in 4.8 seconds.
So it's fast as yet it will still do 60 miles on all EV.
And that's a lot, isn't it?
It is. 60 miles is a long way.
So is how much it cost.
Well, actually, it's not, for a BMW press car,
it's not horrible.
Does it start?
So it starts at 81.
Okay.
And it's as spec, the one I've got is 200 pounds short
of 100,000 pounds.
Okay.
Sort of is what it is.
So yeah, I think that, for me, that's the biggest change.
And I've always said it,
the second you get a plug-in hybrid that will do,
upwards of 50 or higher than 50 miles,
it makes it a usable car
because I'm sure it depends on your journey profile,
but a really good button small for me is Tracy, my wife.
She's got a five mile commute each way each day.
So that car, you could probably run it on all EV
and only have to charge it up a couple of times a week.
And then the other thing that's added to plug-in hybrids,
again, more recently, is the early ones.
You could only use an AC charger.
And now a lot of them have high-speed DC charging,
which makes them, you can drop into a high-speed charger
and get them charged back up really, really quickly.
Do you think, would you do that?
In reality?
No.
Well, here's the thing.
So I always say, the hint is in the name, plug-in hybrids.
You have to plug it in.
If you're not plugging a plug-in hybrid in, ideally, yes.
If you can plug it in at home every night,
and the nice thing about plug-in hybrid,
the batteries aren't normally that big.
So you don't have to have like a seven kilowatt warbox.
You could probably do it with a granny charger,
you know, with a three pin cable
and put enough juice in it every night
to be able to run it on all EV a lot of the time.
Isn't there something about, I don't, I'm not an electrician,
but I feel like you shouldn't use a three pin the whole time.
So a couple of things, if you are using a three pin,
if you're using like an extension cable in a reel,
it's really, really important that you plug,
you pull all the cable out and you don't leave it reeled up
because that's not great.
But I think from a battery longevity point of view,
there's so many voices out there
that will tell you what you shouldn't,
shouldn't be doing with your battery.
You shouldn't, you know, and I'm gonna talk about EVs
in a minute, I'm sure,
you shouldn't use rapid charging too much.
You should only charge between 20 and 80%.
You shouldn't use a three pin charger.
And most of these things, I think it's a moderation thing.
The slower rate chargers I think are generally better
for your battery health than the faster ones.
Yes, yeah.
And slow is like anything below 50 or something,
you know, something like that.
Yeah, well a home charger would be normally seven kilowatts
unless you've got three phase at home,
which in the UK, that's not very common at all.
If you've got a three phase power at home,
you could maybe get 20 to 21 kilowatts or 20,
yeah, it's rated at 22,
but normally for us in the UK, seven kilowatts
or on a three pin plug, I think it's just over two.
So, you know, and with a small battery
on a plug in hybrid,
that's probably all you need to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I always describe them as,
it's a great gateway drug into full blown electric
because when you review an EV,
the comments are full of people saying,
I want the car to do 500 miles of range,
otherwise I'm not gonna buy it.
I don't think, I don't wanna do a long journey
because public charging infrastructure isn't there.
And all of these things put people off buying
a full blown EV, the fact that most of them
aren't actually that accurate,
but people don't want to have the only car in the family
and all blown EV because they're worried about long journeys
and public infrastructure and all that kind of stuff.
The cool thing about a plug in hybrid
is you can run it on a day to day basis
on your short commute predominantly as an EV
and you can get the benefits of cheap rate overnight electricity
if that's the tariff you're on with your provider.
And then if you wanna go on a longer journey,
you put some dino juice in the back
and you run it as a hybrid
and you're likely to get better fuel economy
than pure EV, sorry, than pure petrol.
And that for me is where their strong suit is.
Yeah.
And definitely with these, as you say,
it's the sizing of the battery component
for your driving, right?
Like for me, I think the only place I really drive
is either really far, so it would be like 200 miles
or I go water skiing and that's 20 each way.
So I'd need about 40 really to be like,
I wanna be able to use the battery for like most stuff.
So for me, it's somewhere in that,
like in any modern current spec,
kind of big battery, they have to do 50, don't they?
It's like, ish 50, if you have the new golf,
I think it does 80.
Yeah, T-Quant, so I think VW quote,
they quote like 100 kilometers or something.
But the one thing to say is that that EV running
isn't going to be as quick and as responsive
as a full blown EV.
They'll all run up to highway speed.
They'll all happily sit on the motor at 70 miles an hour,
but they're not.
So that's why I think if you're doing
rural running into the train station and back
or you're in a city where you're not gonna go over
30 or 40 miles an hour, that kind of makes sense.
If your commute is 20 miles on the motorway,
then even though that's within the 20 miles each way,
40 miles, it's probably not gonna be a good plan
really because you're...
Yeah, it's certainly, because you're running at higher speed,
you may all find you don't do 20 miles, you only do 15.
But then the petrol engine kicks in and you'll be okay.
The one thing that I had a Land Rover Defender 110
plug-in hybrid on test, it'd be two years ago
because we took it over Christmas,
we took it into France down to the Alps
and we did like 2000 miles in it.
And when the battery was full, it was really good, right?
Unfortunately, the petrol engine was a four-pot,
two-liter petrol engine and it's a Land Rover Defender 110.
So as soon as the battery had gone,
the little petrol engine was really struggling.
And that car didn't have the ability
to charge itself up on the go.
So that's the...
So some FEVs will have, when you look in their drive modes,
they'll have a kind of energy recuperation mode
where they're propelling you down the road,
but they're also using the petrol engine
to put charge back into the battery
and you'll build your battery back up again.
So that when you get to your destination,
you can run as an EV around the town.
The problem with the Defender is it didn't do that.
So the only way you could build the battery back up again
was to plug it in.
Oh, wow.
And that really wasn't great.
And we averaged, bearing in mind,
because it's a plug-in hybrid,
maybe we'll come to this as a subject as well.
I think the average or the MPG that was advertised
was like 250 miles to the gallon or something.
954.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We averaged 18.
Oh.
Over 2,000 miles, yeah.
That's horrendous.
It's horrendous.
Yeah, I mean, it would be cheaper to drive there,
probably in the V8 off-time.
In a V12 Ferrari.
Yeah, or in a V12 Ferrari.
And that's someone who's owned one of those,
I'm sure you could probably.
100%.
Yeah, no, it was terrific.
It was terrific.
So that's something to think about.
The MPG thing, I get that all the time,
is the quoted WLTP MPG for a plug-in hybrid.
Hybrids aren't that dissimilar.
Because this WLTP is based on a set drive cycle,
the only way you should use WLTP is if you're looking
at buying, let's say you were looking
at buying an X5 BMW and a Range Rover plug-in hybrid,
and you wanted to compare the two,
that's where WLTP comes in,
because they both go into the same standard test.
If you think that number is gonna bet any relation
to what you're gonna actually do in the real world,
forget it, it's not gonna happen.
Because it will be, for a plug-in hybrid,
it will be hundreds of miles to the gallon.
Now, if I drove that X5 into Chichester
about this morning, entirely on electric,
I did infinity miles to the gallon.
I didn't, because the petrol engine didn't turn on.
It's the wrong measurement at that point.
You shouldn't be using fuel, you're using electricity.
No, now there was a miles per kilowatt hour measurement.
Which is more useful.
Which was useful, but so there needs to be
like a combined thing,
because people lose their mind over it.
Auto car, I think now,
other than every now and then a column comes up
discussing something like this and how silly it is.
They will give you, and some reviews and stuff,
I think even on manufacturer websites,
I think I saw it on Porsche,
they give you the empty battery MPG,
which is the real MPG of your car.
And then they give you the electric only
miles per kilowatt hour,
which is how efficient your electric power train is.
When you've got those two numbers,
then you've got a real thing to go on.
Any number that is calculated
when you cross those two together is, as you say,
it's so dependent on your use,
and it doesn't really make sense.
No.
It's like, oh, but the thing I love about hybrid is,
it makes you think in a different way.
With a petrol diesel car, you're just getting it in drive,
and with a hybrid, you're like,
when am I going to use the batch?
When am I going to use old EV?
I mean, some people won't want to be bothered with that.
I find it quite intriguing to work out
when I'm going to do different things.
The thing that really annoys me is most plug-in hybrids
will start off in EV only as a default,
and then you get like half an hour into the journey,
and you think, oh, I've been running on electric only
because they're quite quiet and all.
Now, here's the thing,
I'm going in my experience of YouTube comments
and the free will that people have
to basically destroy you in the comments section on YouTube.
One of the big comments I often get is that,
with an EV, your servicing requirements
are generally speaking relatively minor,
because-
It's like brake pads.
There's no, yeah, and even brake pads and brake discs
because most EVs use regenerative braking,
brakes last forever.
Unless tires.
Unless you've never used your brakes
and your brakes corrode.
This is true, absolutely, yeah, yeah, I know exactly.
But yeah, you've still got to use tires
and they're still coolant in the car,
they'll still be, you know,
windshield wipers, all that kind of stuff.
The motors generally speaking,
don't need a huge amount of maintenance
and other batteries.
So when you buy an EV,
although you're still, most manufacturers
will still charge you a very similar amount
for a service for an EV,
which I still find a bit cheeky.
If you buy a plug-in hybrid,
you've got the EV running gear
and you've got an internal combustion engine.
So your servicing requirements
are far more like a pure internal combustion engine car.
And some people say, well, why would you do that?
But there's no point because it's not a great EV
and it's not a great internal combustion engine car
because you're dragging around a big battery
and a motor and all that kind of stuff.
And I get that.
That is the bit of pushback about plug-in hybrids
that I do get.
And for some people,
I think that is too much of a problem
for them to think about plug-in hybrid as an option.
However, I go back to the,
if you're not that sure about running an all EV,
because let's face it,
all EVs aren't for everybody.
If you're not lucky enough to have charging at home
and you run a plug-in hybrid,
well, actually, if you can't charge it at home,
you may be better off running an H EV.
And it gets really complicated.
We'll come onto that in a minute.
So I kind of do get that.
But the one that I think is a bit more nuanced
and a bit more powerful potentially is
people will describe an EV as zero tailpipe emissions
or zero emissions vehicle.
And obviously, a petrol or a plug-in hybrids
will have emissions when the engine's running.
But the emissions you really need to think about
are the emissions that are made
when you physically make the car in the first place.
So once an electric car is made,
it has zero tailpipe emissions.
But the emissions that were made
while it was in the manufacturing process
are significantly higher than a plug-in hybrid
or all petrol car, like, you know, a lot.
However, twice as much.
As time goes on and plug-in hybrid batteries
get bigger as they are, you know,
you don't get 100 miles of plug-in range
without having a double-sized battery.
The tech ain't that great.
Those are converging.
And I think the Bev, if you took the new,
it was either Volvo and Volvo Polestar that did it
or it was BMW with their latest stuff,
it was if you're running on a relatively good grid,
the payback was like 10,000 miles.
Yeah, and that's it.
So you must have read the same thing as me,
Polestar and Volvo, because obviously,
they're basically the same company.
Same, same.
So yeah, the manufacturer, the petrol Volvo
is 16.1 tons of CO2.
The manufacturer of the Polestar was 26.2 tons of CO2.
So you start off on the back foot, if you like,
but like you said, then over running time.
So you, and I think plug-in hybrids...
They're in the middle of it.
If you've got internal combustion, plug-in hybrid and EV.
So yeah, it's something to bear in mind.
And I'll always come back,
there is no such thing as a green vehicle.
They're all bad for the planet, all of them.
It just depends on whereabouts they're bad for the planet.
You know, it's less damaging to make a petrol or diesel car,
but more damaging to run them,
and vice versa with an EV, but they're all bad for the planet.
So it's a tricky one, really.
Yeah, yeah, unless you're on an e-bike.
I love my e-bike.
So where all of this sort of comes down, or part of it,
I hear that kind of, I know they're sort of journalistic
pluses and minuses of all these sorts of things.
And then there's various government incentives,
normally for if you're business-related
or you can do salary sacrifice,
and I think some of these things have all changed.
I am a private buyer.
And for me, when I look at all of these,
I love technology and I, in theory,
would like to do what's more eco-friendly,
but I also like a big engine,
and I like a good driving experience.
So, you know, there's a blend.
And you like lightweight.
And I like lightweight.
So there's, with my daily family car,
at the moment, there's an E63 estate.
It's probably too far one way, but whatever.
When I've been looking at replacing that,
I've always thought maybe I should get a FEV,
plug-in hybrid.
The bit I don't like is you're gonna lose some boot space.
I don't like that very much.
However, we're starting to get to the point
where the range, as we've been discussing,
is actually like chunky that you could do.
I could do a bunch of all-town, all most journeys,
90-something percent, maybe, could be done on the electric.
And then if you had a slightly silly one,
you might have a nice sound
when the engine does actually kick in.
And that is starting to sort of come into the equation.
But I don't like the fact they're heavier.
They're like 200 kilos heavier or something,
most of the time.
And when you drive them back to back
with the non-hybrid, you feel it.
Yeah. You really feel it.
And as a, so as a,
the point about personal buying and business buying,
I mean, a lot of people look at FEVs or hybrids
because of the benefit in kind,
because you get, it's a tax benefit, right?
And that makes them absolute, not no-brainer,
but it makes them a much more attractive company car purchase.
It makes the M5 Touring much more attractive
than it may otherwise be.
Yeah, but yes, and that is funny,
because...
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This message may be shocking to many millennials.
If you are one, you might want to sit down.
Right now, loads of people are searching
the following on Depop.
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puka shell necklace, disc belt.
You likely place these in the dark of your closet in 2004,
never to be seen again.
But if you can find it in yourself to dust them off,
there are a lot of people who will give you money for them.
It's not an M-hybrid, not a plug-in hybrid,
if you're being...
Oh, is that what they're saying?
They're saying it's called an M-hybrid.
Yeah, so it's quite interesting because I've driven that,
and for me, that, yes, it is a plug-in hybrid, technically.
That hybrid system is all about making that cargo really,
really fast, and it is heavy, but it doesn't drive heavy.
Whereas the X5, I mean,
that's about a balance of use cases, I think.
And when you get something like that,
it's coupled to a decent engine,
so the hybrid performance is a remarkably quick car,
considering it's so big and so heavy.
There are some plug-in hybrids where the petrol engine part
is the really weak bit,
and this is the bit that it's either the engine that's weak,
or it's more often than not the gearbox that isn't great.
So it might have like a...
Rather than having a decent dual-clutch gearbox,
it will have, you know, like a Toyota...
They love putting their sort of not-to-talk converters,
CVTs in there, and that's...
And they also, because they're aimed at efficiency,
a lot of them run kind of like Atkinson Cycle
and very high revving,
so when they are on the internal combustion engine,
they sound like they're going to send pistons through the bonnet,
which isn't pleasant at all.
So I think you have to pick your FEV wisely.
So for your personal consumption,
like I know for me as like a private buyer,
can't do any of the business benefits,
we have, let's say, two cars that get used by family.
One is a small EV, and one, and the bigger one,
I'm still in that question mark,
whether it's worth being a FEV,
or because it literally just mainly gets used for long journeys,
so you're like, it's kind of, I'm right on the edge.
Where do you sit with your personal buying on these things?
Well, firstly, if you're buying it personally,
the bit I was going to add is FEVs generally are more expensive
than just an internal combustion engine.
So there's a higher price to buy.
So our everyday family car is a Porsche Macan GT-S.
So we've gone down the road.
On the hybrid.
It sounds mega.
It goes like stink.
It does everything we want it to.
It's one of the most fuel inefficient cars I've ever owned,
but I don't care.
Yeah.
So I shouldn't be like that, really, doing the job I do,
but when we were buying that car,
because we hadn't had like a...
In fact, the last family car we had,
we had an Audi S4 like you did, a B9 S4.
And then we got rid of that just after COVID,
because I was getting so many press cars,
and I had a long-term...
I just didn't need to have our own car that we were spending money on,
so we got rid of it.
And then now, I don't have a long-term at the moment,
so it was just a case of,
well, it's quite nice to have our own car,
so I'm not reliant on getting a press car
if we're going away somewhere.
And you're not worried about all of that.
Exactly.
So what do we want?
And we never considered a Feth.
We never considered an electric car,
because that car is one that will do long miles.
And to actually tell a light,
we did...
One of the options when we bought the McCann was a Defender,
but we would have bought the 3.0-litre diesel Defender,
not the plug-in hybrid.
See, this is really telling.
This is the bit that I think is really interesting.
Sorry, I don't drink my own champagne.
Yeah, like, I...
Conceptionally, I love the idea,
but I do not own a Feth at the moment.
I might in six months' time, I don't know.
But it's not been the easy as a private buyer,
and as someone who likes cars and whatever,
it's not as clear-cut as it's sort of...
There's more in the equation,
and it doesn't necessarily equate to,
okay, well, I'm going to save a bit on fuel.
I think what it is, is...
And I might upset some people at saying this,
is I love cars,
and when I drive cars on the channel,
sometimes I have to remind myself that I love cars
because there are lots and lots of people out there
that don't love cars,
they just have to buy one to do a job.
And that job might be taking the kids to school,
it might be commuting to work,
and they don't love cars,
and therefore, they start having other things
that are important to them,
whether that's fuel economy,
whether that's environmental things,
whatever it might be.
And therefore, that, for me,
is the kind of plug-in hybrid market
because I love cars too much
in terms of, I like the engine noise,
although you don't drive like a hooligan all the time,
the thing I love most about them a can
is you can mooch in that car and it's brilliant,
but if you've got a bit of B-road on your way home
from a shoot, you can just, it's so good.
And that's, my wife's the same,
Trace is exactly the same.
So I think that's the thing.
I'm not saying that if you buy a fair few don't love cars,
and if you buy an EV you don't love cars
because actually there are some EVs I've driven
in the last 12 months that are off the charts, brilliant.
And interestingly, not long after we had the McCann,
we had a Taycan Cross Turismo press car,
and we drove it down to Cornwall,
and both of us were like, we bought the wrong car.
It was just phenomenal.
It was such a good car.
My worry with Taycans and a lot of those performance EVs
is just depreciation is utterly scary.
But you could buy one for like 44 grand,
it's like two years old.
I know, we looked at, we did that
because the one we were in, the press car we were in
was like 130 grand I think.
I could find like almost same spec,
not with a new battery, but almost same spec
for like half that.
It's insane.
About the same as we bought the McCann for.
So yeah, this is true.
But yeah, so I should-
But you didn't, you didn't buy it.
We didn't, we didn't.
And it's the same with an EV.
I think EV-wise, we vary a few years ago,
we were like, we're gonna buy a Tesla Model Y.
And then I'm really glad I didn't now
because I'd have those horrible stickers put on the car,
you know, your W-lon and all that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we didn't.
But actually, my experience in the last six to nine months
of having EV press cars and doing long journeys
is they're actually not a pain to live with anymore.
The infrastructure is way better than it was two years ago.
The biggest problem with the infrastructure
for all EV at the moment, if you're not charging at home,
it's really expensive to run an EV.
You know, and I, so even the one that got,
we stayed at a hotel in Cornwall,
and I worked it out because Tracy's probably
not got the patience to park up at a charger
and wait for half an hour and so that,
and it's basically went wrong, it wouldn't be good.
But I thought, well, I know I can get to the hotel
on a full charge because it was 200 miles
and the car would do nearly 300, so it was no problem at all.
Plugged it into the hotel, into a destination AC charger
at the hotel, and then went back to check
that the charger's happening and stuff,
and it was 90 pence a kilowatt hour on an AC charger
at a hotel.
What?
I was like, oh, you know.
So that's the problem, is it's too expensive?
But it's, I mean, it's really quick.
I did a thing with Genesis about six weeks ago,
eight weeks ago, we went to Wales
and filmed with the cars there,
and on the way back, we stopped at this rapid charger
and, I mean, we didn't have enough time to,
we put the cars on charge.
We didn't have enough time to walk into a cafe,
order a drink and a cake, eat the drink and the cake
and come back and by that time, the car was full.
It was phenomenal, it was charging at 180 kilowatts.
Absolutely amazing.
It was, well, as you know, we had a Genesis charge card
so it was like 35 or 40 pence a kilowatt hour,
so it was still not cheap, but I think that's the problem
at the moment, is public charging is outrageously expensive
and if you don't have somewhere to charge at home,
that's the other theft thing or hybrid thing, is EV,
just I don't understand how people
who can't charge at home run an EV.
I would just do my head in.
People all say in the comments,
oh, I go and charge in the supermarket car park
or the church hall, great, but I would just do my head in.
Yeah, you've got to work that out and people do.
For me, where I live, I can charge at home,
so it's like, I don't even, we run our little EV.
You still got that little person.
Yeah, we're on the second one.
The first one was a lease, which was like, try this out.
Yeah.
I should have bought one.
And then bought one and now I'm contemplating changing it,
not really because it doesn't do exactly what I need it to do.
It does everything.
Occasionally, my wife wants to drive to see her friends
who live in Bath and it won't do a return journey,
but I mean, surprise, surprise,
but uncharging, she's made it work,
but she'd rather not.
So I'm like, oh, if we could get something
that would do that journey or even go,
maybe I should get one of those new golf hybrids
that does, has an 80 mile range
and then it's just job done.
Yeah.
We never,
but the reality is we own the car and it's like, okay,
I do quite fancy an R5.
R5 is a mega.
I want to drive one,
but I kind of also want some of them to depreciate.
Yeah, and the problem, I don't know,
because they can't make them fast enough
at the moment can they?
Because they look great.
Whenever you see one on the road,
doesn't matter what color they're in, they just look great
and they are brilliant to drive.
They're so well designed.
I think the interior is amazing.
It's everything.
Everything EV should be small and lightweight.
It's not got the best range in the world,
but it's still better than,
it's 200 kilos lighter than a Mini.
Yeah.
The Renault 5.
Yeah, they're no longer really heavy
or at least that is not.
Yeah.
Small EVs work.
Yeah, they're a mega car.
Yeah.
For me, big EVs is a buying option.
They're not yet, for me, for my usage.
I'd go up as, I'd have an Ioniq 5N.
Have you driven one of those?
No.
You've got to.
Oh, Sam, come on, man, they're the best thing ever.
They're fake and it's a gimmick
because it's got the eight speed gearbox and everything.
Yeah.
It's mega.
They're just amazing cars.
Because they are an EV, 600 horsepower EV,
so you drive them around with no noise,
doesn't have a gear, single gear,
so you just move around town
and then when you get to a nice bit of road,
you push a couple of buttons
and it starts making noise like a PlayStation.
And you've got eight gears
and if you don't pull the up paddle,
it bounces off the rev limit and torque limits itself.
It's just, it's, when I got one,
I thought this is just a complete gimmick
and I drove it about a mile down the road
and I'm like, oh my God, this thing's amazing.
They're so clever.
They're just like, when I look at that car,
I go, this is a hatchback, but it's the size of a mechanical.
Can you just make it the size of a hatchback, please?
They're massive.
I parked in the garage downstairs and I was like, oh my God.
I mean, you asked about whether it fitted in.
That's, that only just fitted in.
They are a big car.
Yeah.
But cool, yeah.
Yeah, I think we've covered most of the things.
I think it's like, you go through all the brain science
of like, what's better and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
and then you also come down to the like,
as a, I'm not petrolheads, I have the wrong word,
but like, someone who's into cars,
neither of us have got a fab yet.
No, I know, I know.
For whatever reason.
I'll always describe, I love cars.
And the bit I really don't like about the online world
I live in as a job, but just generally society at the moment,
is you're almost in one of two camps.
You either love EVs and everything about them
and internal combustion of the devil,
or you're a petrolhead and EVs are the devil.
And I just don't get that.
I just, I love cars and if it's the right context
and the right use, I think if you get a small city or,
you know, EV is just brilliant.
It's clean out the back,
so you don't get the emissions inside the city.
It's cheap to run.
I would say if you're doing less than 100 miles a week,
sorry, less than 100 miles a day probably,
or maybe 150 miles a day,
and you can charge at home
and you're not running an EV, you are mad.
Now I'll put myself in that camp.
I'll put myself, well,
if you're doing less than the mileage of the car,
so let's say you're doing less than 150 miles a day
and you can plug it in every night,
you'd save yourself fortune.
If you have to, no, what I mean is
you need to be doing like 20,000 miles a year.
Yeah.
Not to save money,
but like to be saving large, large, large amounts.
But yeah, and that's it.
If your journey is five, 10 minutes,
which some stuff is five, 10 minutes,
I know because I run a little EV the whole time,
I kind of forget.
Sometimes I get in a combustion engine car
that your car's not hot by the time you get to your location.
Yeah.
Like you're just destroying your engine.
I mean, engines are pretty good now, but yeah.
Anyway.
It's funny because I was at a thing with Datcher last week
and they, they're Datcher Spring,
which is the cheapest, lightest TV on sale in the UK.
I think it still is.
I've been beaten by an MG recently,
but because it's a connected car,
they've got a whole bunch of really, really interesting data
off the cars in terms of average.
So the average journey in a Datcher Spring is less than 20 miles.
Yeah.
So the fact it only does, you know,
it doesn't do a massive amount of range, isn't a problem.
And, you know, it's, we had this thing.
Oh, it's got to do 300, 400 miles.
Well, I'm of an age where I have to have a P
after about 150 miles.
So you have to have a stock
and you have to have a bit of a break.
But I agree anyway, that's where Fev's been.
Okay.
There's, I think the final drawing one on that one then,
if you, with a Fev,
the, how much range it has is not a problem
because you always have the like unlimited
to kind of fuel bolt on.
Yeah.
What is the minimum amount of miles
an EV would have to have,
the real world, not, let's not,
EPA rating then, let's just say a bit closer
for you to own one as your main do-everything car
that you do long journeys in.
250 to 300 miles.
So I think 300 miles in the summer, 250 in the winter.
So, you know, some, the latest battery Taycan,
a lot of keers will do 300 to, you know,
I guess it depends how you drive it as well.
But that, for that, that, that, that does everything for me
because you can go a lot, 300 miles is a long way.
It's a very long way in the UK.
As long as you plan, if you plan,
it's funny because I'm going,
I'm doing a Porsche track there at Donington
in a couple of weeks time
and I've got the McCann Turbo, the electric one.
Yeah.
So I pick it up from Reading
and got to drive up to Nottingham.
So all I need to do is just do a bit of planning
and see if there's a destination charger
at the hotel I'm staying at.
And if not, is there a rapid charger near Donington
because about this one at Donington?
And just, just think about it.
And that's the bit most people don't like about EVs
is you don't just get in a car, go
and fill up with dino juice when you need to.
Yeah. And that is tricky.
I think I find that tricky
when you've spent like a hundred grand on a car
and you're like, I do actually need to think like really.
I've got friends drive to the South of France
in their Tesla, all at like two or three tonight
and it's super easy.
Well, Tesla is particularly easy
because they have infrastructures.
Brilliant. And he's tied in with a satin
having a lot of kind of stuff.
You have driven another FEV recently.
The new Porsche GTS T hybrid
is that is full loosely,
992 911 GTS hybrid if you want to go full, full shebang.
How is that?
And the question I want to sort of cover is
are modern hybrids,
I know there's a bit of regulation that means they exist.
Yeah.
Are they better than the same cars without hybrid?
Wow. Okay.
So that T hybrid, the T hybrid 911
is one of the fastest cars I've ever driven.
Rear wheel drive, it'll do 0-60 in under three seconds.
It's phenomenal, utterly phenomenal car.
Now, I know it's upset Porsche lovers
and I am a Porsche lover and Porsche owner
because it's hybridized.
But for me, the reason Porsche have hybridized it
and why they've done it and how they've done it
is really interesting and you need to doffy cap to Porsche.
Because so the, and if I'm telling you stuff, you know,
but this emissions thing,
have you heard of Lambda equals one?
Have you heard them described?
So I have.
So it's, yeah, so Lambda equals one.
So if you run an engine lean,
then Lambda will equal less than one and that's okay.
The problem that some of the performance cars run
is that as part of engine cooling, they tend to over fuel
so that the fuel is part of the cooling mechanism.
And when you do that, Lambda equals more than one.
You're using more fuel, less efficient.
So there's this new emissions regulation
where Lambda has to equal one.
And the problem that Porsche had with 911 was
for the really high performance ones,
the only way they could do that is to hybridize the engine.
So they've kind of done it to tick a box,
but to still keep us with a flat six 911.
So we should actually be grateful
that they've managed to work a way of doing it.
Otherwise we'd be looking at an electric 911
which nobody wants.
So the way they've, it's got a really idae battery.
The battery is 1.9 kilowatt hours.
It's tiny and it sits up the front
just by where the boot space is, it's in the front.
Then there's a little motor in between the,
it's now an eight speed PDK and the flat six.
They've, it's a brand new flat six engine.
So it's a completely new, new developed engine.
Is it 3.4 or 3.6, I can't remember.
But then there's like this little motor in between,
there's like 54 horsepower or something.
So that helps with full propulsion,
but the really clever stuff is the turbo.
There's now only one turbo rather than two
and it's much bigger,
but it's got a motor in it to spool it up
in advance of there being enough gas flow.
So you get instant throttle response.
And then once you have enough gases
to spin the turbine on its own,
that motor then turns into a generator
and starts to feed energy back into the battery.
And also under braking,
you've got some regenerative braking.
So it tops itself up.
You don't have to plug it in or do anything.
It kind of does that itself.
But what it means is the throttle response
is it's a bit EV like really,
as long as you're in the right gear,
it's got so much torque and it's there instantly.
So from a driving point of view, it's just mega.
It's a mega, mega car.
And once you are on throttle,
it's just a relentless linear push of power.
Now it is a bit, it's a bit heavier.
I think it's something like 50 kilos heavier.
It's actually not much, is it?
It's not a huge amount.
It's like a, you know, it's like having a...
Half a passenger.
I think Trace is like 54 or something.
It's not, it's not, it's like, you know,
half a fat bloke, that's probably better.
So you don't, you know, I'm sure
if you're really, really good driver,
you might notice it, but it's not a massive difference.
I mean, if you have a Targo,
they weigh loads more than a Carrera,
but it's just for me, you know,
I think the problem people have is they hear hybrid
and they instantly think of like a Toyota Prius or something.
And it's just not at all.
You would drive it, honestly, if you did like,
I know you can't do blindfold driving,
but if I just took you and sat you in the car
and you just drove the car,
unless someone told you it was a hybrid,
you probably wouldn't know.
It's just, but what it is, it's just really, really fast.
Do you think so would you,
ignoring or as a personal buyer now,
if you've got, you've got the amount of money
that lets you buy, it's not quite like for like,
but you could buy a T hybrid
or you could buy previous gen, no hybrid
and just assume they're worth the same PDK,
which would you buy?
I'd have the hybrid every day.
The performance is phenomenal.
And I know because, you know, unfortunately,
the Rubbies, I think the one I was in,
which was a Carrera, two wheel drive,
GTS T hybrid was like 155 grand.
Yeah.
And that, that's pretty punchy, to be honest.
And it's really interesting actually
that Porsche of the GTS was the first model
to launch in 992.2,
because normally GTS is at the end of the run,
isn't it, where they bring all the best bits
of everything else, but they launch with GTS
and the base model isn't a hybrid,
it's just a standard car.
But no, it was a megabit of kit
and I've got a big hankering for,
when I was looking at buying a 911,
I really wanted a 992 GTS,
but it would have been a 992.1.
So the fact that 992.2 GTS was so good
and Tracy drove it and absolutely loved it.
It sounds great as well,
but it's just, it was a real mega car.
There's a few quirky things though,
so they come as standard with no back seats.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So you have to-
It's a no cost option, right?
It's a no cost option to put seats in here,
and I'm sure that's curb weight.
It's curb weight, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
So the one I had, the press car had no back seats
and it had the 718 or the 98 buckets,
which didn't fold, so it was not the best.
You couldn't get in the back and everything,
but it was a brilliant car.
So yeah, I was a bit unsure.
It's a little bit, how's the best way to describe it?
At times, it almost feels like it's doing stuff itself
rather than you doing it.
I think it's not quite as, I'm gonna use the cliche,
the kind of analogue feeling that you might have got
with like an earlier Gen 911.
It's almost a bit artificial, it's so good,
but I'll forgive it that because it was just,
it was just a mega bit of kit and really interesting.
One of the comments on the video I did was,
what that looks like in terms of,
let's say you're five years down the road
and your Porsche warranties for that.
You buy one of them.
That's a different, having had a few issues recently,
that's a different question entirely.
Would I own one without a warranty?
No, absolutely not.
Things like Prius has run for a very different company,
but they run, they're hybrid and they run for like forever.
I mean, the turbo sounds a bit trick.
The one I really wanna drive is the new 992.2 Turbo S
has two of those turbos on it.
And like over 700 horsepower,
that's gonna be an absolute rocket ship.
It is, I put the GTS now in that,
when that one came out, the new one came out,
I sort of put the Turbo S in its own category
as like, it's a certain type of car, right?
For me, the Turbo S is a little bit
computer-y really fast.
It's that experience.
It's not necessarily the best sound,
that would be a GT3.
It's like really fast.
And the GTS is like, I mean, it's just really fast.
And then the Turbo S is even more,
even more completely bonkers now,
and they've all got put on up in Prius anyway.
Yeah, because I had, I just had,
and I guess a lot of people watching YouTube
won't realize sometimes how we book press cars in,
but with Porsche, you have to go and pick up the car.
So it actually makes a logistical sense
to back-to-back a few cars,
so you can just swap them over.
So I had, in the space of three weeks,
I had the 992.1 GT3 RS, which was sensational.
I swapped that out directly for the 992.2 GTS,
and that was really interesting
because you get out of a pretty lightweight,
track-focused, hardcore, destroy you
over more than 50 miles on the road car.
But amazing.
Into the GTS, which just suddenly felt a bit more laid back,
but actually felt quicker,
because I think in a straight line, it is quicker,
but it's obviously not as quick through the corners.
And then I had the Turbo 50 year Turbo S.
I've always wanted to, always liked the Turbo S,
but they do, they have certain things missing.
They never sound great,
but they are the car you'd want to destroy miles in.
You just sit in one of them and drive to Monaco
or the NĂĽrburgring, they're just,
it was just such a beautiful car.
Amazing, super comfortable, fast as.
I mean, like, too fast, I think.
But yeah, I do love the Turbo S.
But yeah, to have those back-to-back,
but the GTS held its ground right up there,
and it was the cheapest of those three by some way.
And so, and where do you sit as a car, as Pete now?
Yeah.
Where does your brain gravitate towards
in, let's say the current 911 range,
if you were like, I'm gonna have one of them?
Well, I've got it in about the beginning of November,
the new GT3 992.2, I haven't driven it yet.
I've seen one and sat in one,
but I love the 992 GT3.
My challenge with it is, I'm a real soft-top guy.
So arguably, I've now got a 718 Spider since we last spoke,
and that, for me, that's my dream Pete Porsche, really.
I'd love a 911, I was gonna have a GTS convertible.
I bought a 991.2, but that didn't go well.
And I can't afford a 992 GTS convertible,
because my problem with 911s is they're just
such a lot of money, and they're difficult to justify
when you, you know, whereas the Spider, relatively speaking,
was actually pretty good money,
and residuals are really good.
But if it was 911 for me, a GT3 all day long,
I'd love a GT3.
Wing or touring, I wouldn't, I'm not fussy.
I'd probably go wing, but then Tracy
would want me to go touring, so.
So you had a, are you for a long time wanted to buy a 911?
A long time, yeah.
And you bought a 911?
Yeah, I had a Boxster first.
I had a two and a half liter four-pot GTS Boxster
for three years, absolutely loved it.
That was my first Porsche.
And then I thought, well, I'm gonna go 911.
And I did lots of research, and my budget
was basically either 991.2 GTS cabriolet,
or 992S cabriolet.
I couldn't afford the GTS and the 992.
And interestingly, when you looked at the finance,
because I was financing it, the residuals on the GTS 991.2
were so much better than the 992,
that it made the numbers work really, really well.
And I found one, and I did all the research.
It had just had a full inspection from Porsche.
It just had a major service from Porsche.
And that didn't help me very much,
because it still went wrong.
I don't know.
What happened?
You had a 991.2 GTS.
Yeah.
Or you still, you still got it.
I had it, I had one.
Yeah, yeah.
I had it.
Yeah, the blue one.
No problems.
Yeah.
So they have, no, they have a fairly well-documented weakness
in it's like an oil send and return pipe
that feeds the turbos.
And that tends to fail.
And when it fails, oil pools in the turbos.
And then the first you notice is what that startup,
you get a big load of smoke come out the back.
And that's the oil burning up out of the turbos.
But it damages the veins in the turbos and then the turbo go.
So I'd had mine, and I knew this issue,
but I hoped mine would be OK.
And I had it only a couple of days.
And I noticed it had an oil warning light came on.
So I had to put some oil in it, which I thought, well,
it only had a major service like two weeks ago.
That's not right.
And then it was blowing a little bit of smoke out the back.
And then I went to an event, and it was very embarrassing,
because I parked up in the, I do some stuff with it,
a company called 50 Supercars down in the back.
And they had like a Porsche day.
And I parked it right in the middle of their big hangar,
right in front of the cafe.
And when I went to leave, I started it.
And it was like the Red Arrows leaving.
It was just horrendous.
It was the biggest cloud of smoke you've ever seen.
That's not good.
And it went back under warranty, and this pipe had failed.
So they had to replace the pipe.
And at the time, I said, can you check the turbos
and replace the turbos?
Because I know, because I've been on forums and stuff,
this is going to happen.
And then they went, turbos are fine.
We'll just do the pipe.
That was 8,000 pounds, because it was an engine out
to do the pipe.
Always have a warranty on a Porsche, people.
They have this reputation for being never-breaking.
And that's not always the case.
So I got it back.
And I drove it up to motor GP in Silverstone,
and back had the best couple of days, lovely sunshine,
roofed down, thinking my life was perfect.
Next morning, got in it, started it,
blue smoke came out of the back.
I'm like, oh, no.
And I didn't film it, because I didn't expect it to do that.
So this happens, if you put it away warm,
so if you've driven it quite hard and you put it away warm,
that's when you get the really big smoke thing.
So I thought, I'll go out for a drive.
I'll get it up to temperature.
I'll push on a bit, and then I'll park it up.
And then when I start it tomorrow, I'll film it.
Went out for a drive.
And I was at the top, had the third,
and it made a fluttery, spluttery noise.
And I looked at the rear view mirror,
and it was just like red arrows, smoke coming out of the back.
And it blown a turbo.
So it went back.
And they had only replaced one turbo.
And I said, look, I want you to replace both.
And I have to say, where I bought it from,
they were absolutely mega, really, really.
It's exactly what you want from when you've had a problem
with that.
They said, look, we'll have the car back.
It's not a problem.
And I basically gave the car back.
And the finance company were amazing.
They basically rolled my finance back.
And I just parked it.
I couldn't, even though it was going to be fixed,
I don't know what you're like,
but I have to have confidence in my cars.
And if I don't, I can't.
Or even if there's like a little scratch or a dink,
I had on my little mini, it's got like a little
beasting antenna on the back.
And it snapped off.
And I couldn't drive the car.
It was to do my head in because this little tiny
beasting antenna is like 20 quid to fix it.
But just so to have a car that I didn't trust
every time I started it, when I,
it was the most expensive thing I'd ever bought
in my life apart from my house.
It's the dream.
It was a dream.
So it went back and then my problem then was
I couldn't go nine on one dot two because I was just,
I'd just be scared it would happen again.
And I've had four or five people message me,
the joys of the internet saying they'd had
exactly the same thing happen.
And it's almost for me, it almost feels like Porsche,
it should be a recall, but I think what they're doing
is basically just waiting for it to happen.
I've got a couple of friends with nine on one dot twos.
No problems at all.
But I know, I know several people.
One guy messaged me.
I felt so sorry for him.
When it happened, he went,
I've only just bought one of them.
I hope mine's okay.
And I went back, I went, I'm sure it's fine.
You've got a warranty and everything.
It's really okay.
Three weeks later, he messaged me.
Just started the car this morning.
Loaded the smoke out the back.
Exactly the same thing happened.
Bad.
So is it?
That's so weird.
So I then went and bought a Spyder
because I couldn't afford a 992S.
Well, I could, but I just...
Didn't fancy it.
And then I thought, I didn't fancy it.
And then I thought, do you know what?
I've always loved the GT4 Spyder format.
I started looking and they were well within,
well not well within budget, but they were within budget.
And I found a really nice one and fell in love with it.
And it's part of downstairs.
And enjoying it.
I love it.
I haven't driven it for, I'm going to take it out tomorrow.
I haven't driven it for about four or five weeks
because I've just been so busy, but I love it.
It's mega.
It's getting a new exhaust.
So I'm going to take it.
It's going to Mil-Tec in November to get,
because that's the only thing like all modern cars.
It just needs to unlock the noise a little bit.
It doesn't sound bad,
but I know it could sound a lot better.
But yeah, I love it.
It's a really special car.
I've had a few Mickey bits of Mickey taking
because it's only downside is the roof.
It's not as bad as a Spyder RS,
but you can't put the roof up or down
without stopping and getting out of the car.
So if you do get caught out,
it's more of a pain than the Boxster,
which is just a push button
and you can do it up to like 30 miles an hour or something.
That's its only pain.
But I'll live with that because it's lovely.
I remember when I had my 981 Boxster,
way back in 2013 or something,
I was driving over a bridge.
It's like Hammersmith Bridge or something
in my Boxster roof down.
And there was someone in a Spyder.
It must have been the previous generation.
And it started raining.
And it was like, as if this has happened.
And I'm like,
Peeee!
It's maybe the bus you go past.
I'm on a bridge. I can't even stop.
No, it happened to be on a drive tour.
I had a couple of cars behind.
And it's fine.
But you just have to have a look at the weather
and make a call and if it happens, you just put...
Yeah, you can do it.
You can get the roof up in like less than 30 seconds.
But you have to get out of the car.
So it's not the...
So that's the only downside is the thing
that Tracy doesn't like about it is that
but everything else is mega.
But it's not multiple pieces or anything, is it?
It's like, it's been like an MX-5.
It's like, you've got to open it and then pull it over.
Yeah, and it's a combination, I think, of the way it's done
and packaging because you've got those humps on the back
and the way that works and weight.
So it's significantly lighter than the Boxster.
And then the RS is even more hardcore
because that's in two pieces.
And that's, that really would be my heading.
Although I still think that's the best car Porsche made.
The Spyder RS is mega.
I need to have a go at one of those at some point.
You really do, yeah.
I mean, they are...
I wouldn't say hemorrhaging money at the moment, but they've...
But they made a lot.
They were selling for big overs.
They were selling for big overs
and they're really not anymore.
I mean, there's a lot for sale.
They did the normal thing, they made too many.
They said they were really special and they weren't really.
And now, you know, they're 120, 130 grand.
It was a sub, like, 150 grand car, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
But then they were selling for silly overs.
That's not Porsche's fault.
No, that's speculators, I suppose.
But they are...
If I lived in, like, a climate where...
If you had a garage and it was sunny a lot,
you'd just park it up
and you'd never have the roof on it at all
and just only ever use it when it was really sunny.
I couldn't park the car and leave it with the roof open.
No, that's a good point, that's it.
No, this is a good point, well-made.
But they are to drive.
Especially if you're worried about your aerial and your mini.
Have you driven a GT4 RS?
No.
Because they...
Oh, mate, I'm giving you a big list of cars you need to go and drive.
GT4 RS is amazing.
It's just quite a hardcore track focus.
I mean, the noise it makes is phenomenal.
Spider does all of that, but it's just a better ride.
Just seems like a bit more of a grown-up car.
But the noise, because you've got these intakes,
literally just by your ear roll,
and it's just a nominal thing.
Absolutely mega cars.
Yeah, great vehicle.
Your Spider is such a good-looking car.
Yeah, I agree.
They look so good.
I think they're really like...
You fast-forward 10 years and you go,
well, that was a moment in time.
So one of the deciding...
There were many things that made me want to buy one.
One of them was if it holds its money,
or certainly, you know, no cars that don't think like that
will hold their money,
but as long as it kind of holds its value reasonably well.
But also, it could be, even though it's on finance,
it could be a car that I decide just to keep forever,
because you think, well, what's coming next?
I know this segues into the final one of our three things.
Because there's an argument to say,
or you can't order the new Cayman-Foxster anymore,
apparently, we'll come onto that in a minute.
So you think, well,
they're just not gonna make cars like that anymore.
A mid-engines, a little two-seat roadster
with a four-litre naturally aspirated flat-six.
Yeah, it's just, you know,
GT3 running gear at the front.
I mean, it doesn't get any better than that.
Yeah, no, it does.
And when things like the GT4 RS are coming out
and the Spyder RS and whatever,
a GTS four-litre thing,
like all of these things,
everyone at the time was like,
these are the last, they're the last.
I was like, remember 9-11R when that came out?
This is the last manual 9-11.
Really?
I think it's been proven time and time again
that this is not necessarily the case.
And I don't, well, with Porsche, it's pretty much,
I mean, the rumour feels like it's a solid rumour.
I don't know whether it's 100% confirmed,
but I think they have said it's not the end.
I tried to get comment from Porsche a couple of weeks ago
and they wouldn't comment.
So I think the official line is at the moment,
for Boxster Cayman is the order book is closed.
There is a Bev platform, Boxster Cayman,
that's been developed and what they're doing
is they're rolling back on some of their other EB plans.
So the new Cayenne, which was going to be a Bev
to start with is now going to be
an internal combustion engine to start with.
So they're pushing the Bev bit back.
They had a Cayenne.
Cayenne 1?
Yeah, the one, it's bigger than a Cayenne.
I think they were developing that
with some of the other VAG group guys.
I think that's been pushed back for now,
which is really interesting because it kind of,
and I don't think they're the only manufacturer
that's thinking, well, let me rephrase that.
There are some manufacturers that have done
the whole EV thing really, really well
and are being really successful at it.
And for me, Kia, Hyundai, Skoda,
they've done EV really well.
And they've created a range of cars
that are reasonably priced for an EV.
Good mileage, look good, good tech.
I think they've done really, really well.
I can't say the same for some of the more legacy manufacturers
from Germany.
I don't really think Audi have done it great, if I'm honest.
And they got just very confused.
I drove the new S5, which is not an S5, it's an S4.
Oh, I thought they'd reverse this naming.
I thought they'd given up, we made a mistake, guys.
They have, but they'd already launched the S5,
so they couldn't change that one.
The S5 is really an S4,
because it's available in saloon and alert.
Oh yeah, the interior is a bit confused.
I just didn't think it was a great car tool.
But yeah, so I think with Porsche,
and there are some articles online,
because I did some reading around a couple of weeks ago,
that suggested that Cayman and Boxster,
internal combustion into Cayman or Boxster,
aren't necessarily dead.
I think what it will mean,
I think it's likely that there will be some kind of
Spider GT4 RS,
so the RS car or the GT cars will still have
an internal combustion engine,
but the other range will be battery electric.
I don't believe that will be the case, though.
No, because the battery electric one
has been designed to be a battery electric car.
Well, I hope they've done that,
because I think this is the problem
of a lot of the manufacturers have just basically gone,
well, we're going to make some EVs now.
What we'll do is we'll take the engine out
and we'll put a motor, that's what Mini did
when they launched the first electric Mini,
we'll put a motor where the engine was
and we'll put some batteries where the fuel tank was
and we'll make them on the same line and that'll be brilliant.
So I don't know, I don't know is the answer.
I hope it's the case.
The bits that I've heard about these cars,
one was the Boxster and the Cayman EVs
were going to have mad performance.
Yeah.
And so consequently, they were going to be really expensive.
Right, that would make sense.
Like significantly more expensive
than they are at the moment.
So that's what I, if you just ask me anything about them,
like maybe like a year ago,
that's what I've heard about those cars,
that may have changed from whatever,
but that still makes it very tricky to sort of fit into that.
I almost think it might be the other way around.
I think there's rumors that we're going to get this new,
the new 911 engine, which is a four liter,
but it's like narrower.
I think it's narrower than the old one.
That is because it gets moved around a little bit,
is going to go into the Boxster and the Cayman.
And I believe that that would make sense
if that is then the Boxster Cayman, 400 horsepower or whatever.
They might need some RS's and stuff based on that,
but the silly one could be the EV,
which will be the most expensive and they'll just wait.
I can't believe I'm about to say this.
Electric Boxster needs to be equivalent or similar
to the MG Cyberster in terms of cost and performance.
So maybe a little bit more.
So 60 to 80 grand.
And that would sit well,
but if your entry level car,
if you do what Aston Martin have done,
if you think Aston Martin's entry level car
invented now is 200,000 pounds,
and that's nuts.
But they've done that and they've done that with DBX.
DBX, they were like, well, everyone's buying the 707,
so let's just get rid of the original one.
And then everyone, and now they've just done the S,
which is like a ramped up version of that.
That actually, for some cars in the super luxury space,
people buy it and part of it is the status symbol.
So if you can get a cheaper version,
is there people that would buy the expensive one
are kind of a little bit annoyed
that you could buy a cheaper one
and then some people will buy the cheaper one
because they're like, it looks the same.
So if you just go, there is no cheap one,
like if you want to buy a Phantom,
you're spending 500 grand to get a Phantom plus.
Like if you bought a Phantom and you're telling everyone,
I got a Phantom, you're spending the money.
So obviously, I think the Boxer and Cayman,
they sit in a much more volume market than that.
And to suddenly turn them into the,
unless that is the electric sports,
if you want the crazy fast electric sports Porsche,
it's a Boxer and Cayman.
And if you're not in that, you're in a 911.
I think Porsche can do lots of things
against the Porsche fan base,
whether that's back in the day,
going from air cooled to water cooled,
or then they put a turbo on a 911
and then they've just hybridized it.
I think electrifying a 911 would probably be
a step too far for many people.
They've said haven't they?
They've said like, that's the last one.
It's the last one that'll go.
Yeah, so, I mean, that's why,
I know they didn't work on sustainable fuels
and all that kind of stuff.
And then if you saw, Harry Scarra's did a mega video
on sustainable fuels and it was really, really interesting.
I think it's all part of the mix.
And I'm a big believer that there are other drive trains
that have their place.
I'm a big fan of hydrogen.
That gets me a good chewing online every now and again.
But for certain use cases,
hydrogen like for heavy haulage and agriculture
and weight sensitive stuff.
Especially closed loop, where you're like,
you could even make the hydrogen on your site.
Yeah, because the cool thing about hydrogen drive trains
are they are weight negative compared
with internal combustion engine, that alone EV.
So you can put a equivalent power fuel cell and tank
in a vehicle, like a lorry.
And it will weigh less than the internal combustion engine.
The problem with hydrogen is making it
and doing that in an energy efficient way.
You get hydrogen hybrids
and you also get just pure hydrogen combustion.
You know, there's a full mix of all of the stuff.
Plug in hydrogen.
Plug in hybrid hydrogen engine.
This is gonna be great for your engagement.
Yeah, no, I think it is.
They hate hydrogen.
But it's part of the mix.
I live, we've got a farm out in the back
and you're talking to the farmer about harvest time
and he's got an electric tractor that needs to come in
and charge up for however long.
It's just not gonna happen.
So either you carry this on using red diesel
or they look at other things that could help.
You can crack hydrogen on site with a solar farm
or whatever it might be.
I don't know.
But I think we need to keep our minds open
and that's the same thing with sustainable fuels.
The pushback is always volume.
So, you know, making enough of the stuff,
getting it to be a cost point
that a normal person at the moment is like.
Harry said on his video that the sustainable fuel
that they're looking to use in Formula One
is $500 a liter.
Was that how much it was?
And I'm like, that can't be right.
Because normally it's like eight, nine, 10 pounds.
Yeah, I remember hearing it and going like,
it's a big number.
I'm like, what?
But I mean, that's, I mean, that's the future of.
That doesn't matter for them.
It's a future motorsport.
I mean, at least, because let's face it up,
I guess the only electric motorsport
that hasn't really succumbed is probably Formula E for now
because they've just canceled the Moto E,
I don't know, the electric motorbikes.
Right, yeah.
Extreme E was a bit underwhelming.
Well, I mean, they went around on in like,
bonker-fuelled tankers carrying the cars everywhere.
So yeah, for motorsport,
I think sustainable fuels absolutely
and that's off to Porsche for developing it.
But yeah, I don't know.
I really hope, I think,
Boxster Cayman are such good cars
and I know 911 owners hate them
and there's that whole Jeremy Clarkson inspired,
oh, it's only because you can't afford a 911,
which is just the most duped comment ever.
One's mid-engine, one's rear-engine.
They're totally different cars, totally different.
Yeah.
But to keep them alive would be great.
To see them go would be quite sad.
If I was a manufacturer now,
which I wouldn't want to be, absolutely wouldn't want to be,
sounds like a horrendous job.
You don't make any money and it's really hard work.
Unless you're Ferrari.
Unless you're Ferrari.
Yeah, they do.
Their profit margin per car is like 150,000 euros.
It's absolutely bonkers.
If I was Porsche, and this feels like where they're going,
you go, okay, well, you fight the regulations.
As much as Ecos you want to be, you're like,
we are luxury, we're like luxury high-end,
like Cayennes and Taycans and whatever.
And that, as EVs at the moment, is hard work.
Then just selling those cars, they depreciate too much.
It's really hard to sell a new Taycan now.
Basically impossible.
So like, how can we sell some more plugins or whatever?
That's the angle.
And then for sports cars, it's like,
I will keep them as combustion as possible,
because the people that buy sports cars
don't want in general.
They don't want EV sports cars yet.
And they've probably got an EV as well.
And all mass transport should be EVs eventually.
Like, I think that's pretty much the solution.
The technology is just getting better and charging
and blah, blah, blah, it's gonna get easier and whatever.
I just think, I mean, I've always been an advocate.
I think legislating something into being,
like they've tried to do as a EV mandate,
it's never gonna work.
And this year, I think it's 28% of cars
need to be all battery electric for them to hit the mandate.
And I think at the moment, they're at 21%.
And we're in the last quarter,
we're in the last quarter of the year,
so that's just never gonna happen.
And it goes up to 33% next year.
And last year, so they did all this stuff,
whatever it had to be, 18 or whatever,
I can't remember what the percentage was.
It's tiny.
All these manufacturers put on discounts
to try and shift these cars.
And then it got to the end of the year
and they didn't enforce the fines.
Yeah.
So what you've done then,
is you've made all the manufacturers lose money
because they've had to subsidize their cars
to sell cars that people don't wanna buy.
Buy credits off other people.
Buy credits and all this stuff.
And then you've literally gone
and we're not even enforcing the fine
that made all this behavior.
You can't legislate the public
into buying cars they don't wanna buy.
And they just know.
And that's what I was gonna say.
They should have just made EVs
and the proposition of owning one such a good one.
Yep.
That people buy them.
And I think it's difficult
because I don't think there's the environmental debate.
You'll always get quite passionate views
either side of the environmental debate,
whether climate change is real, whether it's not,
whether EVs are good for the planet,
whether they're not.
As I've said already, no form of transport is good for the planet
apart from if it's, you know, pedal power
or one of those push scooter things.
So yeah, I don't know where I wouldn't wanna be
a manufacturer either.
I think it's super scary times.
I think it's super high end on like hypercars and stuff.
I think the less electric kind of hybridness in it
is probably the better.
Cause I think when people buy these,
you buy a million pound, two million pound something crazy.
Actually the reality of our own hybrid system in that
it might be fine, but your car might be a real headache
in five years time.
And people are buying these as like investments.
They're like, when everything's electric,
like I want this raw or whatever.
And if you've got a 750 horsepower V12
and your car weighs 1,200 kilos,
you don't really need any torque from a battery.
No.
Now, and I don't know how many rimats of air
as they've sold and that these kind of ridiculous,
you know, Lotus, Avaya, but they're not so many them either.
Do you think the high speed game
with combustion engine cars is now over?
Oh, cause of that Yang Wang Wang.
Yang Wang, great name.
Yang Wang Wang Wang Wang.
You nine extreme, I think.
Is that what it's called?
Is that the right one?
Yeah.
First up, massively impressive what it did.
Seriously impressive.
Because I don't know how the driver got his balls
into the car cause they must have been massive.
It's funny, I was at an event over the summer
with some of the guys from Michelin
and we were talking about high speed runs
and going back all the way back to Veyron
when that came out and they had to develop
like a specific, the pilot sport, the PAX tire
that goes on the early Veyrons and they did that
and they were gluing tires to the rim of the wheel
and all that kind of stuff.
Scanning every single tire through an X-ray
and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, and then they were like worried about what,
and that was only 250 miles an hour or something.
So the fact this car's just done 300 on miles an hour
is nuts, but I think that's,
I can't see we're going much more beyond that
because rubber tires just can't do it.
I don't know what tires it was running actually.
What?
I should have found out already.
But what did drags just run?
And like those high speeds when people do 500 miles an hour?
That's, yeah.
I don't know what the, it'd be really interesting actually,
what the fastest rubber-tired run in a vehicle's ever been.
I don't know, because they're really high stuff,
but like the land speed records and stuff now,
they all run aluminium wheels, don't know,
the solid wheels, they don't have tires on them at all.
Like the thrust, S, the supersonic thrust car.
But yeah, I don't know.
It's a little bit like the whole Goodwood hill climb.
That's now been done by the McMurtry
and now basically they've kind of changed the Goodwood hill climb
now because they're like, well, there's no combustion.
And a lot of the manufacturers are like,
oh, I don't like that.
So they've changed it a bit now.
And I'm sure as a combustion engine,
I don't know what you'd need to have
to do that kind of speed that an EV can do.
So it's just the power, the torque, the aero,
the, it's unbelievable.
And the ability to operate that, like as in 10 years time,
I can't remember how much horsepower that car had.
It was like between 2,000 and 3,000 horsepower.
It's somewhere around there, I think.
And, you know, in 10 years time,
BYD or whoever is going to go,
we can make one with 4,000 now.
We just put bigger stuff in it,
more efficient, more whatever.
We'll do 320 miles now, like we will do it.
No ICE, it's interesting because lots of those cars
were sold as the fastest car on earth.
Yeah.
Your Koenigsegg, Yesko, super speedy version or whatever.
Yeah.
Now I would rather have the Koenigsegg
than the Yang Wang, but.
Yeah, me too.
A lot of them are, they are kind of sold
as the peak performance car.
Well, that goes back to when the,
is it the SSE2 Atari?
You know, the one that had that high speed run
that went terribly wrong.
340 miles on air.
Well, that was, that was why all that kicked off
because the likes of Bugatti,
who had the fastest Orkan, exactly that.
So, you know, now I don't think,
well, they can't beat that.
So now you're going to have to be the fastest car
that you'd actually want to be seen in on earth.
Maybe just drop that into the middle of the word.
And I think, yeah, because I knew the game was over
when you could go and buy a 911 Turbo or something,
maybe like 991.1.
And someone could go and buy a Tesla Model X Plaid
and burn you, like burn you.
And you're like, yeah.
Okay, that's it.
You've pitted a sports car against a car
that can fit seven people in it with their luggage.
And it is going to beat you to 100 miles an hour
or whatever.
And you're like, well, that's the speed thing.
Cars just for speed, it's gone.
Now for me, it's like, right, well, where's the emotion?
Where's the feeling?
Where's the looks?
I can't remember the exact number.
Is that one I went to fill with that Renault Turbo 3E?
So it's the Renault Turbo homage that's coming to the motors.
A very cool looking thing.
I think Renault messed up massively
by not just taking a Renault 5
and just making it a bit faster
and putting a motor in the back maybe
and making it rear wheel drive or something.
Instead, they had these in-wheel motors.
And they were something ridiculous,
like 4,000 Newton meters a wheel or something.
It's just like, really?
No, it's 2,400 Newton meters per wheel.
So it had the over 4,000 Newton meters of torque
in a Renault 5.
But that's electric for you, that's what motors can do.
So yeah.
That's also what gear boxes do.
People always, this was something someone
brought up the other day.
People always talk about the new torque
from electric motors, which is available from zero.
That's good.
But also when you put something through a gearbox,
you multiply the torque number anyway.
So it's like, you might get 2,000 Newton meters of torque
out of your 700 horsepower engine
by the time it gets to the wheels,
because it's been through a gearbox
that's downrated everything and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But yeah, I agree.
That concept car, the Turbo 3, it's pretty sick.
I like, and it is only a concept car, right?
They did...
No, no, no, no, no.
That's the one you can buy for 170 grand or whatever.
They are about that.
Yeah, I think they start from...
So we've got this customization program.
And if you go silly on that,
you could hit 200 grand for one of them.
But I think sort of 130 to 170
is the kind of range that you would find yourself in.
But then they also have Alpine.
Yeah.
Which they own.
I don't know what you're gonna say.
And so they make the like the just-up version
of the R5 or whatever.
But I would choose the R5.
So would I.
And I've driven both extensively.
And, well, I think the Alpine 1890 looks better,
but they are 10,000 pound more.
And when you drive them, they're not really...
The Renault 5 is so good.
Alpine 1890 for me was just a bit underwhelming.
It's not fast enough.
Well, I'm taking one at Prescott Hillclimate
a couple of weeks time.
So I might reevaluate my thoughts once I've fanged it up.
It's still only 150 or so.
Wow, something.
It's not, yeah.
For me, it needed a bit more.
And bearing in mind in electric terms,
it goes back to the conversation we just had.
It's generally software and power management
from the battery that helps you
to get that kind of level of performance.
But when I went to the launch, I asked the guys,
I'm surprised, why didn't you give it 300 horsepower?
And they said, it's just not an Alpine thing to do.
Their cars are generally lightweight
and reasonably quick in terms of horsepower.
It's like the A110S over the summer,
and that was 300 horsepower,
and it weighed like 1150 kilos.
It was just perfect, absolutely mega.
So explain to me, Alpine,
how much lighter this is than an R5,
and how much quicker a nimble it is,
because it's not, is it?
It's got very different suspension and brakes.
It's got a lot of bits off of the A110,
so all the brakes are fear 110, so it stops better,
although I did set fire to the brakes
when I was on track.
I got asked, could you just pull over to the side,
just let it cool down?
Because literally there were,
I was doing some shoots at the end of the day
for a videographer for my film.
So I was doing drive-bys up and down
this two very heavy braking zones.
And I've still got the footage,
as I came around the corner, still moving,
there was flame licking out of the front wheel.
Nice footage, nice footage.
Come on, I didn't use it as it happens.
I was very good.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's not a great deal, Lighter,
but it does look cool,
but they're a lot more money, they're 10 grand more.
I would like to see the sort of,
what I'm gonna say is the hot hatch version
of these cars when the technology slash whatever allows.
I want the car that's got 300 horsepower,
maybe it's got motors on the back, maybe it doesn't,
but it's also 150 kilos lighter.
So it's kind of like actually agile.
Yeah.
That, fun.
Whereas a lot of these now,
when you compare them to what would be
a conventional modern hot hatch, actual hot hatch,
they're not, we're not in the same category yet.
I think, yeah, weight is a real issue.
It's funny, I was talking before we started recording,
I was in Paris last week with that year,
with this new hipster concept that they put together.
Super light.
And that, 800 kilos.
And their argument with that is,
from a cost point of view, it's less materials
because the car's smaller.
And from a battery point of view,
because a battery is a third of the price,
the bill of materials of an EV is the battery.
Yes.
So the smaller the battery can be,
the cheaper the car's gonna be.
And so, and also if the car's lighter,
it's less mass to accelerate and decelerate
and go around corners and all that kind of stuff.
And I found that really interesting,
that the interesting thing with that car is,
at the moment, it doesn't have a car category to sit in.
Because it's bigger than a quadrocyle like a Citroen Ami.
And the category that it kind of is,
for it to still be within that quadrocyle city car category,
it's got to weigh less than, I think, 580 or 600 kilos,
which they don't think they can do
and keep it as close to that concept.
If it goes up into the A segment group,
it then falls under a whole bunch of requirements
like ADAS systems and safety systems.
And that's gonna increase the weight
and the cost of the car.
And they don't wanna do that either.
So what they're trying to do is,
effectively make a new category of small city car.
Because it's just such a clever idea.
It's like the K car concept in Japan.
You go to Japan and these little K cars,
which we don't have regulations for in the UK.
I know you can import them if you want to,
but they're just brilliant things.
You think, that's exactly what you need in a city.
Small cars, don't take up loads of space.
You can park the nose into the curve and it's fine.
And that, I think, going back to the early part
of what we were chatting about is,
I think that's where EV, getting the weight out of them
and they become far, far more, especially price as well.
I mean, the Thatcher Spring is such a well-priced car.
This direct could be 20%, 25% cheaper than Thatcher Spring.
And that, you know, at the end of the day cars,
the stat they gave us was new car prices
between 2010 and 2025 have increased by 71%.
Yes.
And there's a bunch of inflation and whatever,
but also it's all these systems that they have to have.
Because there is a lot of, and this is clearly part of it,
there's a lot of companies,
they're pitching at the moment for,
the working title I believe is E-Class.
I'm not sure that's correct.
Have you heard that?
Maybe I'm just making that up.
But it is, they want to create this subcategory
of small cars that don't have to have ADAS and whatever
and all this stuff that people don't actually want.
And it might make a difference.
And someone will say, oh yes,
it saves X amount of whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But reality is, if you build small, really strong cars
and people are awake and they're driving around town,
they shouldn't get hit by something at 60 miles an hour.
All right, let's just have little cars
that have, and could even have combustion engines
because they're tiny.
Yeah.
I mean, that hips to had airbags and stuff.
Someone told me, and I don't know
whether it was one of these urban myth things,
that the guy in the EU that's banging the drum
for all these safety systems, like, you know,
speedbong and lane departure and stuff,
doesn't even have a driving license.
Doesn't drive a car.
And you're like, but it's just,
have you met anybody who gets in a modern day car
and doesn't turn the speedbong
and lane departure system on?
I don't know, anybody.
Around town.
I don't do it.
Although, I don't own a car that is new enough,
but there is part of my brain now that goes,
if you're thinking of buying a new car,
bloody well check that you are not
one month into the new rules.
If you're on the offense, and I told one of my friends,
is I borrowed a Cayenne E recently.
My car was getting serviced and whatever.
And one, actually, new Cayenne, new,
like, you know, the current Cayenne,
with the Digi dashes, and it was like a base spec Cayenne,
did not feel like a luxury car to me.
My brain went like, this doesn't feel like a luxury car.
What's going on?
Like, this is an expensive car.
But that bonged.
Yeah, so the new 992.2911 bongs.
But you can turn it off with a button,
but the interesting though,
the Lane Departure Assist was a 700 pound
optional extra.
Who in their right mind,
it's gonna spec Lane Departure Assist.
It's only useful, the only time it's useful
is if you're using like cruise control,
or a level two driving on a,
and you indicate and then it changes lane for you.
Yeah, I get that.
But apart from that, it's like, no.
Yeah, because that is that Lane Departure Assist,
is that the, is that the bonged?
The one that rumbles when you get near, yeah.
It's great at killing cyclists.
Yeah.
If you go to overtake a cyclist
and you get to the central lane
and it won't let you pass to me.
It just nudges you into them.
Get out of here.
Just in case, Jeremy.
I hope that comes through.
I hope we're allowed, like, I hope sense prevails.
We don't need ever and ever increasing
of some of these things.
Like, if you looked at, I can't remember,
what are we on now?
Are we on Euro seven yet?
We're not, are we?
Oh, yeah, that's even work.
That's the other thing that's coming down the train
at these manufacturers like a, yeah.
I think it sounds like Euro seven may not ever land
because it's just, it's going to kill everything.
But if all cars on the road were Euro six or above,
or let's say we're Euro six,
if we just time out the current fleet
and we let people buy cars that they don't,
that they want to buy and they were all Euro six,
the emission reduction would be huge.
Like, insane.
So that would be quite good.
I don't know, they want to push and they push
and they've got, someone's got to come up
with some legislation, so.
Modern day diesels and they're like this and Petra,
they're so clean really.
I know this is all about molecules and stuff.
I wouldn't stand my eye and want to breathe the whole time,
but they are, they are, they are.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
You'll get there.
How are.
Well, so I normally wrap this up with five questions,
but like, you've done them like a hundred million,
million, zillion times.
What in the car world is interesting to you at the moment
on a topic that we've not covered?
Because that's probably not that interesting.
I really like the,
I'm going to use the word rest in mod scene, but not.
Some of the cars that are being built to
hark back to cool cars, you know,
I sent you that link of that alpha, the R33 thing,
or something like TWR Supercat,
where they've taken an XJS and just made it utterly brilliant.
I like that kind of thing.
New car wise, it's a bit depressing, if I'm honest.
Because you just want, oh, look at that.
I mean, oh.
Yeah, it's quite cool.
Just dreaming.
I know, I know.
I mean, that's taken one of the most beautiful cars ever made
and just making it.
And then TWR Supercat.
I don't know if you heard that festival speak.
I wasn't there, but.
I did a film with that.
I've driven the mule of that.
I did a film with the guys.
Because it's based, you know,
Caffeine, er, not Caffeine,
podium place in Newbury.
I know of it.
It's based there.
Yeah, they're based there.
Oh, there it goes by video.
And I drove the mule and that was amazing.
But the car they took to festival speed,
they straight piped it.
They de-capped it.
That's what you gotta do, right?
They straight piped it.
I mean, it just sounded awesome, like really, really good.
So those kind of things, and I'm on the channel,
I'm starting to, because new cars are,
as a car reviewer,
electrics are very, very difficult to review
because there's less to talk about
because they all drive the same or they're abouts.
You know, it's, it comes to a conversation
about what the range is gonna be,
how fast they can charge, and that's about it really.
And I've never been a channel to do stuff
around the technology in the car
because most of the time,
people just mirror their smartphone with Apple CarPlay.
So I'm starting to do some,
some, you know, if you like, subscribe as cars.
I drove a beautiful Golf GTI Club Sport S the other day,
which was lovely.
So those types of things.
In fact, this Friday's video,
I drove a 1967 Lola T70 Can-Am car.
Oh, that was on the road.
That was on the road.
Road legal, yeah, yeah, mega thing.
Absolutely, 5.7 liter VA, straight piped,
terrifying, very, very tricky.
Well, not tricky to drive because it was,
it had like a road clutch and road cams.
So the road going process,
they softened it up a little bit.
But the gearbox was just on the way up, was okay.
On the way down, you kind of had to kind of just
get the right amount of rev on to rev match.
And if you didn't, you just ended up in a box full of neutrals
and you're like coasting along.
And every time you tried to go into gears,
you're like, oh, coast to a stop and then put it in here.
Start again, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, things like that.
That's great.
That's great.
That's what I want for like,
and I think that's where I'm definitely going
with my sort of personal wants of cars and things.
It's like, it's either your day-to-day
does the day-to-day job,
has to be very targeted for the job.
Zipping around town, probably a little EV.
Long motorway, comfy, I just want comfy.
Sports car, raw experience.
Unless for some reason I'm driving at 4,000 miles
or something, then it's somewhere in the middle.
But the cars that all blend in the middle of those
are becoming less appealing to me.
Have you still got your GT3 RS?
I've still got my GT3 RS.
It's currently off the road because-
It's 997, right?
997 Gen 2.
Yeah, because I've got a mate who's just bought one
and it's going to be on the channel very soon.
Oh, nice.
Has he done anything to it?
Is it a stocky start?
Yeah, pretty much.
He's only had it a couple of weeks.
It's beautiful, it's orange, it's lovely.
Yeah, mine's currently,
we're trying to get new brake discs.
We're going to change them for surface transform ones
because a full set of surface transforms is 10 grand
and a full set of Porsche ones is 20 grand.
Carbon ceramics.
Carbon ceramics.
Yeah.
And your Porsche ones can't be refurbed,
but your whatever, surface transform ones,
it's like you're putting a more modern disc on
rather than replacing it with now a 15 year old disc
or whatever.
So that's what the process is,
but it takes apparently five months
for the discs to turn up.
So it's currently off the road.
But I've got my 992 G-S.
It's just time to save up.
Yeah, exactly.
I've been putting this bill off for like forever.
And be like, well, they're not quite worn out yet.
But we've got to that point.
And then I've got a 992.1 GGS manual.
Nice.
But I don't drive it.
So I'm kind of getting to the point now
where I like love it, but don't drive it at all.
So I think this week it's probably going to go to RPM
Technic and be sold.
So I will have gone from a point a few years ago
owning like four sporty cars at once
to only having the GT3...
E63 is a bit sporty, but like whatever.
Like only having the GT3 RS
and not in the slightest being like,
I think I need something else.
It's kind of weird.
It's called growing up.
I think it is.
I think it is.
And even the GT3 RS, I'm like,
I don't know when I'm going to use that.
I don't know.
I'm with the guys from RPM Technic
at this track day at Silverstone.
And I'm hoping that they're going to do a geo setup
on my Spyder because that's the one,
that and the noise.
It's just, it's a bit, a bit neutral, safe.
It's just not as sharp on the front end
as I'd like it to be.
It's just got a standard setup.
So I know, I know talking to them,
we're at Box and Gas and they were like,
they're all dialed in super understeering
and super safe.
So you can, you can sharpen it up quite a lot.
I'd like them to do that, but...
I did that on mine.
They just beat us.
My RS isn't, I think it's standard geo,
but it's stiffer rear anti-roll bar,
which is adjustable on the car.
So I'm just on the stiffest setting.
And that's better than stock,
but it's amazing the difference,
different geometry setups make.
Like not, not just, not like bad to okay.
I mean, like you've actively chosen a different setup
because I've driven someone else's same car
and it felt really different.
It was so much more locked down.
Mine feels kind of sketchy,
especially if you're driving around a track.
It's a bit, oh, oh, every time you go in a corner.
A bit max for Stappen.
But that's also kind of fun.
So I don't know.
There's probably somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, that'll be interesting to see
if you get a little change.
I'm on a drive tour in April.
So that would be in Spain.
So that's got to get it ready for that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cool.
Well, thanks very much for coming on this.
It meant to be incredibly short.
Forecast.
It just looked like...
Yeah, so come on, good chat.
Good luck with editing that.
Easily break that down into three 10 minute segments.
Thanks a lot.
Bye, cheers.
So good to see you.
Thanks very much.
Thanks.
Thanks.
About this episode
A lively discussion with Pete Groves centers on the evolution of hybrid and electric vehicles, particularly the Porsche 911 GTS Hybrid and the return of the ICE Cayman and Boxster. The hosts debate the merits of plug-in hybrids versus full EVs, sharing personal experiences and insights on performance, practicality, and environmental impact. They also touch on the future of automotive regulations, the appeal of classic cars, and the challenges of modern car ownership. The episode is rich with anecdotes and technical details, making it a compelling listen for car enthusiasts.
0-60 time
AC charger
all-electric car
battery component
brake discs
brake pads
DC charging
electric power trains
energy recuperation mode
EV
Alpine A110
Aston Martin DBX
Audi S5
BMW 6 Series
BMW M5
BMW X5
Bugatti Veyron
Citroen AMI
Hyundai Ioniq 5
Jaguar XJ-S
Lancia Lambda
Land Rover Defender
Land Rover Range Rover
Mercedes-Benz E-Class
MG Cyberster
Porsche 911
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Macan
Porsche Taycan
Rolls-Royce Phantom
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model Y
Toyota Prius
Original notes
Petrol Ped joins me to talk hybrids, from plug-ins to Porsche’s new 911 GTS-T Hybrid. We dig into whether a hybrid is better than the same car without. What makes a good PHEV, why real-world MPG figures are nonsense, and how Porsche is bringing back the ICE Boxster / Cayman.
Enjoy.
👉 https://www.youtube.com/@PetrolPed
Show Notes:
02:51 Plug-In Hybrids vs. Full EVs — The Real-World Trade-Off
06:03 How Modern Plug-In Hybrids Finally Got Good
09:00 Charging, Battery Health, and the Myths Around 3-Pin Leads
11:54 Living With a FEV — Real Use, Real Range
15:03 Why WLTP MPG Figures Mean Nothing
17:51 The Hidden Emissions Debate — Manufacturing vs. Use
21:09 What Actually Matters When Buying a Car
23:49 Are EVs Ready for Everyone Yet?
26:50 When Hybrid Tech Meets Performance Cars
30:04 Porsche 911 GTS-T Hybrid — Engineering a Future 911
32:49 EVs, FEVs and Finding the Right Balance
53:50 Porsche Ownership: When “Bulletproof” Isn’t
57:10 The 718 Spyder — Rediscovering What Driving Feels Like
01:02:22 Porsche’s Next Chapter: ICE, Hybrid, or Electric?
01:10:49 Hydrogen, eFuels and Other Future Powertrains
01:18:07 Have We Hit the Speed Limit for Combustion Cars?
01:34:35 Restomods, Soul and the Future of Car Culture
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Car Chat
Sam Moores
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108:28