Alex and James dive into their experiences testing at Phoenix, highlighting the challenges and nuances of the track and car setup. They discuss the impact of new hybrid systems, tire behavior, and aero changes on racing quality, emphasizing the difficulty in predicting race outcomes. The conversation touches on team dynamics, including new engineers and organizational changes, as well as comparisons between Phoenix and other short ovals like Milwaukee and Gateway. They also reflect on the testing process, rookie incidents, and the importance of adapting strategies for better race performance.
Rossi's with everyone else, testing in Phoenix. Plus, there's a new option for everyone to be in a car during the off season, the new F1 cars still leave a lot to be desired, and Jimmy Hinch is goin' truck racing.
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""Well, yeah, James, I'm at a racetrack. We're doing this, what? We're doing this before day two of our Phoenix Open test.""
A racetrack is a special road made for racing cars to drive fast and compete against each other.
A racetrack is a specially designed circuit where motor racing events take place. It features a combination of straights and corners to challenge drivers and cars.
""There's an arrow screen now, there's a hybrid system. Now we have less downforce, we have less power.""
A hybrid system means the race car uses both a regular engine and electric power together to go faster and save energy.
A hybrid system in racing combines a traditional internal combustion engine with electric motors to improve performance and efficiency. It often provides additional power and energy recovery during the race.
""That is true. Well, no, the less power on a short oval, I would say can sometimes make racing better.""
A short oval is a small, oval-shaped race track where cars race around a short loop. Because the track is small, the cars stay close together, making the race more exciting.
A short oval is a type of race track that is relatively small in length, typically less than one mile, featuring an oval shape. Racing on short ovals often leads to close, competitive racing due to the tight corners and short straightaways.
""So you've done a two car tire test, but now you've been on track with the whole field.""
A tire test is when teams try out different tires on the track to see which ones work best. This helps them pick the right tires for the race to make the cars go faster and safer.
A tire test is an evaluation process where different tire compounds or constructions are tested on a race track to determine their performance characteristics such as grip, durability, and handling. Teams and organizers use tire tests to select the best tires for upcoming races.
"the under steer level and the dig drop off is the dig drop-off is coming from a exponential under steer level, which doesn't really lend itself to opening up a second lane, right?"
Understeer happens when the front wheels don't grip enough, so the car doesn't turn as much as you want and slides toward the outside of a turn.
Understeer is a handling condition where the front tires lose grip before the rear tires, causing the car to turn less than intended and push wide in a corner.
"So, so IndyCar is, is doing all of the right things. Obviously they spend, um, a lot of time with Firestone on having two different tire tests here with four cars total."
IndyCar is a type of car race where special fast cars race on different tracks, including oval shapes and road courses. It's one of the top racing competitions in the U.S.
IndyCar is a premier American open-wheel racing series known for high-speed oval and road course races, including the famous Indianapolis 500. It features cars with specific chassis and engines designed for competitive racing.
"Obviously they spend, um, a lot of time with Firestone on having two different tire tests here with four cars total. Um, and then having this two day test here."
Firestone is a company that makes tires, including special tires used on race cars to help them go fast and stay safe on the track.
Firestone is a tire manufacturer that supplies tires for various racing series, including IndyCar. Their involvement includes testing different tire compounds to optimize performance and safety.
"because yeah, we have the opportunity to introduce our sport to a whole new audience with it being the double header weekend with Cup. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're going quicker."
A double header weekend means there are two races happening on the same weekend at the same place, so fans get to see more racing action.
A double header weekend in racing means two races are held on the same weekend at the same venue, often attracting more fans and media attention. Here, IndyCar shares the weekend with NASCAR Cup Series events.
"So, , that's weird because like on paper, I know that Phoenix is unique 'cause it's got the dog leg, right?"
A dog leg is a part of a race track where the straight part bends a little, so drivers have to turn slightly instead of going straight.
A dog leg is a bend or kink in a racing track, often requiring drivers to adjust their racing line. Phoenix Raceway is known for its distinctive dog leg on the backstretch, making it unique among oval tracks.
""...non banked corner. And the other end of the track is, you know, you're on the brakes and it's super banked and you're going down three years at times...""
A banked corner is a bend in the road that is slanted, so cars can go faster around it without slipping.
A banked corner is a turn on a race track where the surface is tilted inward, allowing cars to maintain higher speeds through the turn due to increased lateral grip.
""And to have, and to have the timeline, like at the e like at a corner exit is also super weird. Oh, really? Um, Where's it at? Start finish line is like basically in the middle of old two. It's like way before the dog leg.""
The start/finish line is the line on the track where the race starts and ends.
The start/finish line is the designated line on a race track where timing for laps begins and ends; its placement can affect race strategy and timing accuracy.
"You know, prominent crew chief of one of the teams was I guess, poached or I don't know the story, but has, is now working for tech, for tech."
A crew chief is like the boss of the team that fixes and helps the race car during the race. They tell everyone what to do to keep the car running fast and safe.
A crew chief is the team leader responsible for managing the race car's pit crew and making strategic decisions during a race. They coordinate repairs, tire changes, and communicate with the driver to optimize performance.
"Every other role in motor sports Seems like it's a popular thing, but like I, I'm pretty sure I've heard of this type of thing happening in F1 when it's going from like the FIA to the team."
The FIA is the organization that makes the rules for big car races like Formula 1 to keep things fair and safe.
"Every other role in motor sports Seems like it's a popular thing, but like I, I'm pretty sure I've heard of this type of thing happening in F1 when it's going from like the FIA to the team."
Formula 1 is a type of car racing where the fastest and most advanced cars race on tracks all over the world. It's like the top league of car racing.
Formula 1, often abbreviated as F1, is the highest class of international single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA. It features the fastest circuit-racing cars and is known for its global races and advanced technology.
"but yes, I think that there is certainly the possibility of a pretty severe conflict of interest."
A conflict of interest is when someone has two jobs or roles that might make it hard for them to be fair or honest because they want to help both sides.
A conflict of interest occurs when a person or organization has competing interests or loyalties that could influence their decisions or actions, potentially leading to biased outcomes.
"Who knows the ins and outs of every single thing that you do on that race car, which operates in the gray area on a lot of things is immediately tech is in 10 days. Like he's got a duty to make sure all the cars are equal and he knows exactly the areas where those cars might be different."
Tech inspection is when race officials check cars carefully to make sure everything is fair and follows the rules. They look for anything that might give a team an unfair advantage.
Tech inspection in racing refers to the process where officials thoroughly check race cars to ensure they comply with the rules and regulations. It involves examining various components and setups to prevent illegal modifications or advantages.
"Which operates in the gray area on a lot of things is immediately tech is in 10 days. Like he's got a duty to make sure all the cars are equal and he knows exactly the areas where those cars might be different. So I think if you're andretti, you're a little bit annoyed because they don't even have time to potentially pull things outta the gray. Not saying they're illegal, but pull things out of the gray area, you know, make sure their i's are dotted, their T's are crossed, blah, blah, blah."
In racing, sometimes the rules aren't very clear, so teams find ways to do things that might be allowed but aren't obvious. This is called the 'gray area'.
The 'gray area' in racing regulations refers to parts of the rulebook that are ambiguous or not clearly defined, allowing teams to interpret them in ways that might provide a competitive edge without technically breaking the rules.
"Honda and Chevy have both officially returned. We need to talk about that because to the series."
Honda is a big company that makes cars and motorcycles. They also build engines and race cars.
Honda is a major Japanese automotive manufacturer known for producing cars, motorcycles, and engines. They have a significant presence in motorsports and vehicle manufacturing worldwide.
"Honda and Chevy have both officially returned. We need to talk about that because to the series."
Chevrolet is a car company from America that makes many types of cars and trucks. They also race cars in competitions.
Chevrolet, often called Chevy, is an American automotive brand known for producing a wide range of vehicles including trucks, SUVs, and performance cars. They also participate in various motorsports series.
"Everyone knows, like on paper and optically how bad it would be for this to be a single manufacturer championship. Right. But"
In some car races, companies that make cars compete to see whose cars do the best. This is called a manufacturer championship.
A manufacturer championship is a competition within a racing series where car manufacturers compete against each other based on the performance of their cars and teams. It encourages investment and development from manufacturers.
"...It is a mostly spec car anyway, team to teams, the big, like the big development races in the, in the dampers, right?"
A spec car means all the race cars are mostly the same, so the race is more about the driver and small changes rather than big differences in the cars.
A spec car is a race car built to a standardized set of specifications so that all teams use very similar equipment, emphasizing driver skill and minor setup differences rather than major engineering advantages.
"...the big development races in the, in the dampers, right? But then from the engine engine manufacturer standpoint..."
Dampers are parts of the car that help control how it moves over bumps and turns, making the car handle better when racing.
Dampers are suspension components that control the rebound and compression of the springs, affecting the car's handling and ride quality. In racing, teams often develop and tune dampers to improve performance.
"Correct. Like, it could be just a fully HRC or a fully Chevy branded car, right? Mm-hmm . It's not because it's run by a a Meyer Shanker EC doesn't mean have any commercial connection or whatever."
HRC is the part of Honda that focuses on racing. They build and manage race cars and engines for big races.
HRC stands for Honda Racing Corporation, the motorsports division of Honda. HRC manages Honda's racing activities and develops racing technology, including engines and cars for series like IndyCar and MotoGP.
"Like, it could be just a fully HRC or a fully Chevy branded car, right? Mm-hmm . It's not because it's run by a a Meyer Shanker EC doesn't mean have any commercial connection or whatever."
Chevy is a big car company from America that makes many kinds of cars. They also help make race cars for big races like IndyCar.
Chevy, short for Chevrolet, is a major American automotive brand known for producing a wide range of vehicles including performance and racing cars. Chevrolet has a strong presence in motorsports, including IndyCar, where it supplies engines and supports teams.
""It is, it is funny because they've got so much less downforce and that is so apparent. Yes. Right? When you compare like the change of direction...""
Downforce is like a force that pushes the car down onto the road so it sticks better when turning. This helps the car go faster around corners without slipping.
Downforce is the aerodynamic force that pushes a car down onto the track, increasing tire grip and improving cornering speeds. It is crucial in racing cars to maintain stability and performance through turns.
""That's, that's probably more power unit related than downforce related. So here, okay, here's the thing.""
The power unit is the engine and electric parts that make the race car go. It’s what gives the car its speed and power.
In modern racing, especially Formula 1, the power unit refers to the complete propulsion system including the internal combustion engine and hybrid electric components. It delivers the power that drives the car.
""It's still 10 seconds quicker than an F two car. It Is the first performance test.""
Formula 2 cars are race cars used in a series just below Formula 1. They are not as fast as F1 cars but still very quick and used to train future F1 drivers.
Formula 2 is a racing series that serves as a feeder category to Formula 1, featuring cars that are less powerful and slower than F1 cars but still very fast and competitive.
""...like with the ground effects car, when as soon as you got sideways and the floor broke, like you lost everything, you were gone. So there's more moments, which is good.""
A ground effects car is designed so air flows under it in a way that pulls the car down to the road, helping it stick better when driving fast.
Ground effects cars use aerodynamic designs that create low pressure under the car to suck it closer to the track, increasing downforce without excessive drag. This technology was prominent in certain eras of racing.
""...some of those moments are being caused by way. You have to drive these things and gear choices and things that you have to do in order to satisfy the requirements of getting ultimate performance outta the power unit.""
Gear choices mean picking the right gear in the car to make it go faster or slower depending on the situation.
Gear choices refer to selecting the appropriate gear ratios in a car's transmission to optimize performance, acceleration, and speed depending on track conditions and power unit characteristics.
"It's super weird listening to guys, like listening to the engines just run out of energy halfway down the stray and just starts like the revs just start dropping from start finish down to turn one. I I wonder"
Engine revs are how fast the engine is spinning, which helps the car go faster or slower.
Engine revs refer to the rotations per minute (RPM) of an engine's crankshaft, indicating how fast the engine is running; managing revs is critical in racing for power delivery and efficiency.
"He goes, well, I knew you. You can't go to nascar."
NASCAR is a type of car race where cars that look like regular cars race fast on oval tracks.
NASCAR is a popular American stock car racing series featuring production-based cars racing primarily on oval tracks.
Select text to request an explanation
This is off track.
Good morning everybody. Alex . Alex, you look good, pal.
What, uh, why are you so close to this, to the camera?
I'm not, Oh, okay. Welcome.
Do track. It's a new setting. Yeah.
With, yeah, it's a plus, plus two or a 0.5, but zoomed in
Whatever Dude, you look, I believe him.
Amped and ready to go. You're in your Java house hat
and your ECR gear and you just look like you're ready to go drive race cars.
Well, yeah, James, I'm at a racetrack.
We're doing this, what? We're doing this
before day two of our Phoenix Open test.
Uh, so yeah. Okay. Well let's go through, yeah.
Let's go through day one quick.
Okay. Back at Phoenix, we've talked about this.
We talked about how you tested there for the tire test.
Um, very different from 2018, which does the last time that we ran there.
Mm-hmm. Which sucked, like
objectively was just a terrible race for us.
But the cars are very different.
There's an arrow screen now, there's a hybrid system.
Now we have less downforce, we have less power.
We have gotten better at making the things Second lane work, all things, all things that you just said prior to the last one.
Do not make racing better.
That is true. Well, no, the less power on a short oval,
I would say can sometimes make racing better.
Okay. Yeah, Because it just kind
of tightens the, the group up.
Mm-hmm . Anyway, yeah. That all said,
this is the same formula that we've taken to other short tracks that we had crap racing and have made good racing.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm . So you've done a two car tire test,
but now you've been on track with the whole field.
What do we think after a day at Phoenix? I
Think what we've learned in front of everyone on this show is it's, it's very hard to predict.
Um, yeah. For a myriad of reasons.
Uh, 'cause currently I don't think anyone's super optimistic, but we've said that many times in the past and that hasn't always been the case.
So I am New Year, new me, new Leaf.
I'm gonna have an open mind. .
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah.
I don't think this show works if you have an open mind. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah.
I think, yeah, no, just about this. Nothing
Else.
Okay. Okay. I was gonna
Say, would you like me to just be really negative about stuff? No. Yeah.
We might need you to step out purely. Okay.
Purely pre-event predictions of race quality.
I'm gonna have an open mind. Everything else
Just at Phoenix, or are we talking in Arlington?
Are we talking Markham? Hmm. DC Let's
Take it one at a time.
Okay. , let's start, let's not ask for too much. Let's
Just start with Phoenix. Yeah, yeah. Got it.
Okay. Um, So it's, uh, the,
the reason why it doesn't feel great right now is because, so Firestone did, did a good job.
Um, and there's a lot of DG in the tire, which is, as we've discussed, is good for racing and opening up a second lane.
But the DG unfortunately at the moment, after one four hour session, is only coming in extreme forms from the right front.
So the, the under steer level and the dig drop off is the dig drop-off is coming from a exponential under steer level, which doesn't really lend itself to opening up a second lane, right?
Because right.
You're, you're, you're just under steering in the second lane too, and doing more distance and more exposed to marbles.
So really the dag needs to be like the whole car, like the whole car sliding around and Right.
And that's when people you see in Milwaukee or Old Iowa, they're searching high and low for grip because like the whole thing is like on ice, right?
When it's just one axle that's struggling.
It's not, it's, it's half of the equation sort of thing.
But people are gonna tune their cars.
People are gonna get more aggressive with the mechanical setup and the arrow setup and everything to, to rectify that.
So, um, it's really good. We're testing here.
'cause ultimately yesterday was a very short four hour session.
Today's a full day. Um,
so I think people are gonna be a lot more in the window by the end of today.
Yeah. I'd like imagine we were
rocking up to the race weekend.
You'd have one hour of practice and then You'd call designer A race and it would be bad.
So, so IndyCar is, is doing all of the right things.
Obviously they spend, um, a lot of time with Firestone on having two different tire tests here with four cars total.
Um, and then having this two day test here.
So the, the, the effort is there to make this as good of a show as possible, which quite frankly, it needs to be.
Um, because yeah, we have the opportunity to introduce our sport to a whole new audience with it being the double header weekend with Cup.
Yeah. I mean, we're, we're going quicker.
It's about 40 mile an hour quicker. Uh mm-hmm .
An average speed than a cup car, so it's gonna look spectacular.
Much less track usage than Cup. Yes.
, um, you know, they're, they're down, they're down on the apron and, which is just crazy, uh, to me.
We certainly can't do that. Um, does it,
Does it feel like, sorry.
Well, I was just gonna say, I, I missed, I missed driving here over a lap.
Like Yes, you say the race in 18 was pretty below average, which I agree with.
Um, but this is one of my favorite short ovals to like do a, a Q sim on, it's nowhere near the level of commitment, unfortunately that it used to be.
Mm-hmm . Um, especially in the Arrow Kit days when turns
old, turns one and two, which is now turns three and four we're like borderline flat.
Um, but it's still a, a super rewarding, it's probably my favorite at this point.
It's my favorite short oval behind Milwaukee.
It goes to Milwaukee. Phoenix, and that's it.
Gateway, Iowa. Mm-hmm.
I mean, I guess that's the order it has to, to go, but I certainly don't like Iowa or Gateway.
So, , that's weird because like on paper, I know that Phoenix is unique 'cause it's got the dog leg, right?
But like, when you look at what one and two and three and four look like, you could kind of say that it's closest to Phoenix, or sorry, closest to Gateway. Yeah,
A hundred percent.
And, and in a lot of ways it is.
Um, there's just some really annoying elements of Gateway I think, that are hard to get right.
Like the bump going into turn three and Right.
It's, as much as this is the same as Gateway in, in the sense that, you know, turns, let's just call it one end of the track is almost flat in a, in a fairly, um, non banked corner.
And the other end of the track is, you know, you're on the brakes and it's super banked and you're going down three years at times, um, they do drive super different.
Uh, because, you know, in, in Gateway you have kind of two balances end to end.
Whereas Phoenix, I think it's, it's more enjoyable because the balance across the lap is the same.
Um, you know, interesting problems that you suffer in, in, in one end are, are echoed in the other.
So Interesting.
That's that. Yes.
And it's, I know they changed like the layout in the sense of where start finish was and which one was one and two, but like, super Weird.
The track's the same though, right? Otherwise, like the
Track's the same. Okay.
Yeah. It's just, it has moved it.
So was it confusing the first couple runs where you're like, it's, Dude, it's still confusing.
It's still confusing. It makes no sense. That's so funny.
And to have, and to have the timeline, like at the e like at a corner exit is also super weird. Oh, really? Um,
Where's it at?
Start finish line is like basically in the middle of old two.
It's like way before the dog leg.
Oh, weird. No,
it's like literally in the middle of the corner.
Weird. I mean, just
outside the middle of the corner. Yeah. But, yeah.
Huh. Yeah.
So like, you're not even, you're not even fully tracked out on the exit of one old, one and two before you're at the timeline.
Right. There you go.
Um, but anyways, so the track's the same.
It looks, you're gonna be blown away.
It looks very different.
All the grandstands are moved and it's, it, it feels like a different track, but obviously yeah.
It, it is not. So yeah, on the, on the 20 car side,
um, was a good day.
Uh, good, good day for the team.
You know, we're, we've got, um, on my side, you know, it's, it's a new engineer on the car.
Um, some, some new structure changes in the organization with Matt being promoted to technical director.
Um, ed is gonna be on my car.
He was obviously on my car for the last couple races of the last year, but he's full-time calling my races this year, except for obviously, um, the 500.
Um, but yeah, very, a very positive and productive day for, for us, which is good. Good start to the year.
So, sorry, who eng who's Eng who's your engineer this year now with moving up?
Uh, his name is Quentin Mon Montague On.
So was Quentin running your car at Seabring?
I didn't run Seabring. Oh, that's right.
You guys, you guys just had Hunter there so that, so this was, okay.
So this was a first, uh, pay attention, James.
You know, I do, sometimes I do in the moment. I just don't have a memory. It's funny,
It's funny the amount of times that I have over the past three months had to tell James that I haven't, I'm not doing Sebring, haven't been to Seabring, wasn't participating and Then didn't go to Seabring and yet mm-hmm.
I still ask. Yeah. Um,
Because we're setting a new trend, man, you don't have to just go to cbr 'cause everyone else goes to cbr. Yeah,
No, look, I, look, we talked about this.
I, I like that strategy.
I like that call. That's an interesting one.
It kinda reminds me of the, like, you know, the phrase like, if, if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it?
Because honestly, I've thought about this like probably would You would Yeah, yeah.
Or would a hundred percent just because You is ridiculous.
Yeah. If there's one guy that I know
that would in fact jump off the, the bridge, I just don't think you guys would do it without doing your research.
I also just think that even if we did and it was the exact outcome that you would've expected, you were like, well now do it.
All my friends are like, I might as well. Yeah.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be the guy that didn't do that.
Yeah. You know, um, so
it was a Penske one, two, Andretti, three, four, uh, ma Lucas led the way.
But this is day one.
By the time you hear this, we will have done day two and day one matters, even less than day two, which doesn't even matter that much 'cause it's just testing.
But just figured I'd throw that out there.
Uh, a little over 2000 laps run by the whole field.
So yeah, everybody out there getting some, getting some miles in.
I did read that, um, Kyle Collette, one of the rookies of the year had an incident.
What happened there, Alex? I haven't.
It was really James. Um, you know, we, uh,
we ruled out a pit lane on a, on our second and only set of, uh, new tires, new tires For a nice little, and, Uh, he jumped, he jumped me, uh, leaving pit lane.
Good. So I, I had a gap off of him and try and find a space.
Um, and then, uh, was halfway around completing my first slab of the qim and he crashed in front of me.
So that was, um, that was that very small, just spun in three, four, um, light contact.
So Okay. Really no harm, no foul.
I think bent one of the rear corners, but like, not, But he'll be back out.
Dramatic. Yeah. Yeah.
It sounds like one of those unnecessary parts of a race car that they put on. Um,
I mean, you have 75% of the rest of them, so Not bad numbers when you think about it.
So some IndyCar news that's happened since we last spoke.
Again, we may have talked about this.
So remind me 'cause I don't remember what conversations we have in person and which ones we have on the show.
Sometimes Han's officially been announced back, like I know that we saw him at Sebring. Um,
Did you listen to the Tuesday episode? James
And on off track? Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's right. No, I didn't.
But I know that you did that. Um, .
So, but, and, but that's, that's less of the thing 'cause we've already covered that.
But the point I was gonna make was that his engineer, uh, is gonna be a guy called Bill Pappas this year, and Bill for the last 10 years, I think something like that.
10 plus. Yeah, maybe,
Maybe more has been, uh, working for IndyCar.
He, he was on the race team side and then went to go work for IndyCar, one of the lead, uh, you know, engineers, tech guys, developers of all things new that have happened in IndyCar.
And then we've also heard about some team people that have been hired to go work for IndyCar in tech and things like that.
You know, prominent crew chief of one of the teams was I guess, poached or I don't know the story, but has, is now working for tech, for tech.
And it sort of made me, it sort of made me think a little bit, how do we feel, Alex, do you have an opinion on people from the series immediately going to work for a team when they might have some information or might know about some things of what's coming or how things are done that could be advantageous.
And on the other side, how do you feel about the series being able to hire someone right off one of the top teams to go start leading tech, like immediately?
I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, but do you think maybe there should be something like a gardening leave in these situations? You mean like
Every other role in motor sports Seems like it's a popular thing, but like I, I'm pretty sure I've heard of this type of thing happening in F1 when it's going from like the FIA to the team.
Yeah. So he probably, I don't know
that there's really much, at least in my time in IndyCar, which is getting to be a lot at this point.
Yeah, you're getting old, bro.
Uh, here's the thing about time though, I'm still not catching up to you.
So A percentage wise, that's actually not true.
But in absolute terms, that is accurate. I
Don't know that's that's true. Because
Now that's, that's Matt though.
As we both get older, the percentage of our age that is different shrinks, but the absolute the relative, uh, between us will stay the Same.
Yeah. But if I die today mm-hmm .
And you live another 40 years, then that percentage obviously drops.
Well, yeah, no, I was sorry.
I was not anticipating your impending demise.
Well, we all know I'm gonna die before you .
It's gonna be really dark if I do die today, guys.
So you should still push this podcast out.
That's gonna be, could you just not test today?
Now I don't really like this Anymore.
You should definitely put it out there.
Um, anyways, uh, so I, I don't know the Indy car or teams, uh, there has been a, a precedent for this.
Right. Um, so,
but yes, I think that there is certainly the possibility of a pretty severe conflict of interest.
Um, because you would be naive to say that Bill coming from IndyCar and, and let's, I don't even wanna talk about him potentially knowing what's coming or not coming.
He certainly has seen everything that every team does from a, um, pushing the limit here on the rule book or developing this as a solution to this problem and, and creating this blah, blah, blah.
So I think that yeah, there, there is a potential for that argument there.
What I will say is, on that same note, this car has been an, this isn't an insult to anyone or a dig at IndyCar.
This car's been around for so long and there's so much, theres So much Yeah. Movement
Transfer Of information And yeah.
Everyone kind of knows everything anyways. Mm-hmm .
So that, that one is, you could argue it both ways.
I think the, the bigger, I don't wanna say issue, but concern, and this would only be a concern, Forti is one of your highest ranking crew chiefs at that organization for the past decade.
Who knows the ins and outs of every single thing that you do on that race car, which operates in the gray area on a lot of things is immediately tech is in 10 days.
Like he's got a duty to make sure all the cars are equal and he knows exactly the areas where those cars might be different.
So I think if you're andretti, you're a little bit annoyed because they don't even have time to potentially pull things outta the gray.
Not saying they're illegal, but pull things out of the gray area, you know, make sure their i's are dotted, their T's are crossed, blah, blah, blah.
Because this person is gonna know exactly what he is looking for.
Right. Um, so that one I think is a little bit more of a,
uh, situation than, than the IndyCar person going to a race team.
Interesting. Does that make sense? Because
Like that makes perfect sense. That's no
Different than than a top level engineer Penn Ski or McLaren going to Andretti or Ray Ball.
Right. Or Carpenter. Right.
And and the, the thing about the inner team stuff though is I feel like, I feel like it's always just kind of in, in terms of like ratting anybody out, it's a little bit of mutually assured destruction.
So you rarely hear of a, of a team member going from one team to another, and then immediately the team that they've come from gets, gets dinged in tech for something because all that happens if, if it works, they just take it and keep it over at that team too.
Right? Right. They want that extra advantage.
So like, there's not a lot of like naing going on No.
When it's not at all that thing.
But in this, this dynamic, it can be a lot different. Right.
Yeah. So yeah, it's, I I I don't know.
I just thought about, again, this is nothing against Bill, this is nothing against Nick.
This is nothing against any of the people that are, you know, there are no worlds about this.
I just wanted to start a conversation about should there be, because it does seem like a little bit of a, an interesting dilemma. Um,
I guess we'll see.
Fortunately, fortunately, I don't drive for Jetti. So Not my problem.
Not your problem. Not my
Problem.
Honda and Chevy have both officially returned.
We need to talk about that because to the series.
Yep. Have thoughts, you have feelings. I, I
Don't think that people, as fans know the extent of how big of a deal that is.
Everyone knows, like on paper and optically how bad it would be for this to be a single manufacturer championship.
Right. But
what I don't think people necessarily think about is if you lose, if you lose one of the manufacturers and it's, you're now down to one, you lose the development and the spending and the resources that a manufacturer championship has because ultimately whatever remaining manufacturer is left, they're not incentivized to back teams push push limits of engines.
It you're at Indianapolis and let's say it happens, right?
You have a, a bad engine or a bad hybrid or a bad something, right?
There's not the same level of urgency to rectify that because ultimately they're gonna win.
Yep. Right? So you lose simulator support
because now everyone is on the same manufacturer.
So every, like, there's no, You lose the competition like you lose, there's an element of competition that you lose and it Affects not an element, you lose it all.
Right? And well, so that trick team
To team, but that's right.
So it's got nothing to do with the manufacturer. It would be
A huge exit of resources, both financially and, um, intellectually and from a competition support standpoint, uh, a software development standpoint, all of the offline sim tools, all of the, the workbooks e everything that each manufacturer's doing every year to try and level up the other one, the strategy tools and software, the driver Sim That just evaporates, right?
Yeah. And so that is a, a big, a big hit
to the teams financially because now not only are they getting some sort of support from that manufacturer, now they have to replace that support and spend their own money and hire their own people to continue that development.
And it just puts a huge stress on the system.
And so the fact that Honda State Chevy's obviously staying shows not only the, the promise and the belief that both manufacturer have in the series, but in my term or in my, in my opinion, I think it saved the series from going down a very dangerous path.
Yep. Of, Of non existing quite
frankly. So a hundred percent.
Um, so thank goodness basically credit to everybody at all three entities, whether it's Chevy, Honda or the people in any car, Doug and the team that kind of led the charge to keep this all going in the right direction.
Because you said it, man, it hurts the teams, it hurts drivers.
'cause there are teams that help fund certain drivers.
'cause they want that guy in their engine.
You would have less driver in loop simulator time.
So development as a driver would suffer.
Like everybody loses, everybody loses.
There's less advertising dollars spent.
'cause both of those companies spend a lot of money advertising individual races on television, whatever it is.
And it's competition, man.
Like it's, this is what racing is like in IndyCar.
It is a mostly spec car anyway, team to teams, the big, like the big development races in the, in the dampers, right?
But then from the engine engine manufacturer standpoint, there's a lot of cool development stuff that happens.
And it's fun when, you know, you'd get to the track or start of a year, you'd have your meeting with your manufacturer be like, Hey, here's what we've been working on.
And as a driver you're like, oh, this is cool.
Like we can now tune this. They adjusted this.
They listened to our feedback on that.
Like that's part of what fuels people, you know, wanting to be in this sport and in the competition side of the sport.
So very excited about it.
One of the elements that, uh, was included in this deal was that each manufacturer was given one of the charters.
So you know, obviously the charter system was new last year.
Last year, two years ago. Last year. Last year. Last year.
Last year. Um, so does this mean that we're now up
to 27 if they choose to employ them?
'cause like they're not taking any way, right?
There's 25 that exist, correct. Yep.
So there'll be 27 charters, which now makes so much more sense because you're allowed to start 27 cars in a race.
Mm-hmm. So there's no more of this when they decide
to, I almost wonder If this was always in the back of their mind is like a wild card in their pocket it To pull out.
It's a good point. Yeah. It's a good point Alex.
'cause it makes no sense the way it was done before.
No, it really doesn't. And so I, which I if
That's true, IndyCar forward thinking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or if it was one of the manufacturers that was like, Hey, if we're gonna keep doing this, keep this in mind.
Yeah. And whatever it was, whatever combination.
Um, so, you know, one of the things that's already been reported, 'cause I first started, I'm like, what is, I don't understand how this, how do you start a chart?
Like how does an engine manufacturer have a charter mm-hmm .
And essentially it would be to add a car to an existing customer team, right? So for example,
Non three car, Customer team, non three car, because you can only have a maximum of three uh, cars per uh, team with charters.
Can you run a fourth car if it's not a charter car? Yes.
Right. So you only have three charters per team.
So Honda for example, is talking to Myers Shank about potentially running a third car.
Nessi, uh, Nessie has three technically. So this is my, so
They'll have six .
Oh, okay. I see some of the Chevy teams
that are upset about this potential conversation.
Um, but no, but so, so, so that's what you're gonna do.
That's what you're gonna potentially see.
So then you could see Chevrolet doing the same thing at say, oh gosh, I don't know who's a two car team that could maybe, oh, ECR for example, could potentially run a third car if Chevy's. So I'm
Available.
True. Or hopefully not Foyt and have six Penskes.
Also that also that I am curious though, what that level of connection is still gonna be this year.
Apparently it is renewed through 2027.
What that level is, I don't know, but at least the racer article said that is continuing through 2027.
Yeah. So that mentioning discussions
where certain people seem to think it's operating at a different level than other people and the ones you would think would want it to be operating at a higher level, or the ones you think and the ones that are like, well we're still working through the details or the ones that you think.
So it's kinda like, ah, seems to be a little bit of a disconnect and the messaging across this program.
Um, but yeah, so that's cool that, that it's gonna be soon to see. It's
Super cool and, and, and forget like my snarkiness about who runs it, regardless of who runs it.
Like you are now having a manufacturer supported car.
So if Honda has a development guy that they want to test out, if, if Chevy Connors iage, right, they wanna throw him in an Indy car, like this is their, they can do that.
They don't have to convince a, an ED or a Michael Andretti or, or sorry, a Dan Towers or a chip to run this person.
Like it is their decision.
Um, if they wanna throw Yuki Sonota in a car, they can do that.
So it, it opens Also throw Yuki sonota in a car that would be Yes.
Throw Connor in a car, let's do these things. Yes, that would be amazing.
Hundred percent. It, it's kind of like the,
the the star car that Track House did.
Right, right. And, and look at the result
that we got from that.
Like some amazing names drove it, but then you also got Shane, um, as a, as a find that is now full-time and, and doing an incredible job.
So I think it's, it's great for the pipeline of, of getting guys into the series.
Um, and it's also, it means a lot to the manufacturers because now they have skin in the game and the opportunity to develop their people, not only from a driver's standpoint, but engineers, mechanics, yada, yada, yada.
So it's, it's good for everyone all around.
Yeah. 'cause it would, it would run, it would be run
by a team, but it would be controlled essentially by the manufacturer.
Correct. Like, it could be just a fully HRC
or a fully Chevy branded car, right?
Mm-hmm . It's not because it's run
by a a Meyer Shanker EC doesn't mean have any commercial connection or whatever.
So yeah. They could
Do that kind of stuff.
It's so, it's so that GM and Honda don't have to go buy pit equipment and Right, right.
And, and source the people.
I mean, they might wanna plug two people in, but it's, yeah.
It's, it's hard to run a, an IndyCar.
It takes a lot, a lot of Different, it's a lot.
It's a lot of effort. It's a lot of effort.
They're already doing a lot of things.
We're in this kind of, in the, in the throes of this five weeks in a row on track for IndyCar Sebring last week.
Not for you. As I have been reminded. Uh, wow.
You finally got it right Into St. Pete.
Ask me tomorrow. Forget, give it five minutes. Yeah. No.
He'll forget into, into St.
Pete, into Phoenix, into Arlington.
Um, but one of the, one of the big things about IndyCar, and I mean motorsports in general, like all top series are this way now, is that, you know, testing is so limited, right?
And getting mileage in the off season, especially when you're off season, is as lengthy as Indy cars is tough.
And there is this amazing new thing that is happening whereby a group of people, uh, has, has gone out and purchased six chassis and like 50 a pool of 50 something motors, uh, of the old, the last generation Champ car, the Panos DPO one, which if you talk to the guy that was, that was pre my era, if you can believe it.
Um, and that was like, like that was it.
That was, well it was like post Hunter Ray, but you talk to the guys like Power or, uh, Graham, the guys that got to race that car, they will tell you Sebastian Bode, they're like, this was one of the best race cars I've ever driven.
And it only got one year and it's too bad.
But it, it ran off this bitching engine like Twin Turbo, V eight Cosworth, tons of power, whatever.
And this company now has bought these cars 'cause they see this demand for track time and a high powered, high down for single seater when you can't just go testing your IndyCar.
And so they are now renting out essentially this operation to, and like we've now heard certain current IndyCar drivers are doing it.
But there, it's also a great tool for evaluating young drivers.
You do get rookie tests in IndyCar, but you don't get an unlimited amount.
And let's say you've done a rookie test and there's a guy that's got some promise, like, okay, well let's, we need to do more with them.
Let's go do a little bit more here and you can go pound around with, uh, with this program.
So I think this is phenomenal.
And Alex, I really hope that this is something that ECR R'S got in store for you next winter.
And you know what, I might just tag along and bring a helmet and, uh, throw the guy at 20 to see if it'll fire one up for a run.
Because I heard that car is just like a incredible, I'm just annoyed, James, that you and I didn't just do this and think of It.
Dude, it's, when I, when I started reading it, I'm like, this is insane.
I like, makes perfect sense. Why did we not? Yeah,
Yeah. This is,
It's makes so much sense. It's
Just, it, they're just gonna print money, which is cool.
Very smart, very smart to take advantage of it.
Obviously there's some pretty significant differences, especially in the tire, right?
The only tire that can really be provided, um, for this car as a hand cook.
Um, so it's a pretty far departure from a Firestone, but in terms of not only evaluating drivers, right, but evaluating components, um, and, and just getting time on the track for durability testing, reliability testing.
Oh, we have this grand idea for X, right?
That we can only try if a car is running.
Um, it's a really good, uh, solution for proving out those theories.
So I think everyone is going to take advantage of it in some way, shape, or form.
Um, I know that will kind of was one of the pioneers of this last off season.
Um, you know, he, he rented one, it was a different group.
Mm-hmm . Um, it was just an individual
that had one out in Houston and he just did it purely for the, the fitness and Yeah.
And just to stay sharp in a single seater sort of thing.
Um, not really. He obviously doesn't need development time
or anything like that, but you are out of the car for so long, it's just good to get, you know, your body and brain firing again, be before you do it for real.
And St. Pete. So, um, that's, that's awesome.
I know that another team with three drivers, uh, were out here in Phoenix a couple weeks ago, um, ripping around.
So it is, uh, it's something that you're gonna see pretty much everyone doing in, in some capacity.
And I'm pumped because that means I don't have to sit outta a race car for six months.
Not that I did this off season, but Yeah.
You got, you got, you had a pretty good run this this winter.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaking of winter, it is now spring, I think objectively spring is the worst season.
You say that a lot. Yeah.
And it's, it's, I'm gonna say it every year about this time.
So, so just like, so you don't like flowers blooming, you don't like children being happy, you don't like candy?
You don't like, hang on.
Why is it spring? I the groundhog saw
His shadow.
Oh, it's like, it's, sorry. Yes. I I take that back.
It is, it's only whatever it is. February something.
I know that it's, so everything saw in I not stand for this.
It is warm and for like, is this erasure of Pci, Tony, Phil.
So it's Gonna, it's gonna snow on indie Indie next week's Gonna, yeah, it's gonna do that thing.
I guess we've got that every year we get this like week or two where you get like, we call it fall, spring, right?
Yeah. And like, so, so you just get a little,
a little preview of what spring's gonna be like in a month or two.
And I already am pissed that spring's coming because it just, it just sucks.
There's like two weeks in spring that are nice when those flowers start doing the thing you're talking about.
But for the rest of it, everything's just wet and brown.
And it's like, look, no day should have a temperature delta greater than six to seven degrees Celsius that should, so fif call it 15 degrees, 16 degrees Fahrenheit.
That should kind of be any day that it's like if you wake up, if the high is gonna be 75, it should be no colder than 60 when you leave the house in the morning.
Okay. Whatever. Um, so Formula One was back on track, uh,
in <inaudible> in some, some much more serious testing than, uh, Barcelona.
Mm-hmm . And there was some, some opinions
that came out of the three days of testing.
Two days testing, yes. Whatever.
Um, James, I assume you followed from afar.
Um, I did. And, and you know about said comments. Um, I do.
And have you watched any of the onboards?
I have. Mm.
So remember when, when car launches were happening and we were like, mm, these look kind of lame mm-hmm .
And you were like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean we just, that's just probably their liberty and we haven't seen the car, blah, blah, blah.
Again, just solid James impression.
Well, I'll give you that.
The cars certainly look better than they did on delivery unveils.
Mm-hmm . Their performances
performance on track, um, is leaving some to be desired because I watched an onboard from, um, George mm-hmm .
Who was quickest on day two, I think.
Um, or maybe day three. I don't really know.
It doesn't matter. And dude, the thing looked and sounded
broken .
It is, it is funny because they've got so much less downforce and that is so apparent.
Yes. Right? When you compare like the change
of direction and he, uh, he Was breaking like 3,740 meters earlier. Well
That's, that's probably more power unit related than downforce related.
So here, okay, here's the thing.
Here are the things, um, yes, it vis it visibly looks slower like by a good chunk because it is, it's like five seconds off what they were doing last year.
Few caveats to that.
It's still 10 seconds quicker than an F two car.
It Is the first performance test.
They're gonna claw back some of that time.
So let's say, let's say it nets out, let's say they find two seconds over the next year.
It's only three seconds off the fastest F1 cars that they're, that have basically ever existed, right?
From, at least from a downforce standpoint.
They definitely look harder to drive, but more fun to drive in the sense of like, they move around a lot more.
And one of the comments that I think has been fairly common and maybe a bit on the more positive side than some of the other ones are like, yeah, you can get it sideways and catch it where like with the ground effects car, when as soon as you got sideways and the floor broke, like you lost everything, you were gone.
So there's more moments, which is good.
Um, unfortunately some of those moments are being caused by way.
You have to drive these things and gear choices and things that you have to do in order to satisfy the requirements of getting ultimate performance outta the power unit.
It's um, it's weird.
It's super weird listening to guys, like listening to the engines just run out of energy halfway down the stray and just starts like the revs just start dropping from start finish down to turn one. I I wonder
If the FIA and Formula one watched a bunch of need for speed and they were like, these were super popular movies, so we need to like implement that strategy into Formula one.
They've got nitrous in Formula one now. Well,
A, they might as well.
Um, b they just change gears for the sake of changing gears.
They absolutely should. They
definitely should have nitrous A like the, the amount of shifting that is happening is absolutely astonishing because they're trying to keep engine revs in a certain range and high to regen the battery and do all this sort of sort of thing.
So they are just slamming up and down gears, which as we know, need for speed.
You downshift to accelerate and to pass people.
It's, it's driven. It's the movie driven
come to life. I mean,
Dude, they might as well be nitrous because when you have energy versus when you don't have energy, it's 500 horsepower.
Um, and everything is just a race in a straight line because everyone is doing everything through the corners, approaching the corners, exiting the corners to maximize straight line performance.
So it is need for speed.
The the one comment I think this from, it was from Fernando that upset me.
Like, you watch this stuff, you're like, okay, this is very counterintuitive, right?
It's not natural, it's not like what you would normally think how you drive a race car, but it's a new challenge, right?
And drivers love new challenges and engineers love new challenges and, and trying to figure that stuff out the first, um, and the best.
Not the first figure it out first and the best.
But the thing that Fernando said, kind of to your point is there's just so much focus on maximizing your straight line deployment, right?
That corners that were previously flat out, you might be voluntarily lifting now.
Mm-hmm . Because
that little lift gives you a little bit more charge and mm-hmm .
The charge boost that you get on the straight is more time than if you were to keep it flat.
Mm-hmm . Stuff like that I don't love at all. Mm-hmm .
That's, that's not fun.
But again, those are the first three days here. Okay?
So in the same way that we talk about all these tracks and all these races that we thought were gonna be terrible and Mr.
Open-minded over here was going into Phoenix saying it's gonna be great.
That's it. It's the same kind of thing with this right's
And formal was gonna die. He
Was very clear that he was only being optimistic about Phoenix.
I'm saying still being as much, Just honestly enjoy it. 'cause this is the last year
I , Hey James, I'm not saying Alice silver Lining.
You don't have to travel as much. .
Well, you know, next year your little like flight passport thing that you post and Bragg about is gonna be a lot less impressive Of instead of all, instead Of on the Roman Empire, it's gonna be the doesn't follow the FIA Formula one World Championship.
Hold on. First of all, I enjoy my jobs. Okay, .
Second of all, I don't post that to brag. Alright?
That's not a, that's not a flex, dude.
That is Simple.
How are we feeling about that?
How are we feeling about life?
Super Flexy, super Flexy rising.
Flexy super flex. Oh, look at me. I'm so well traveled.
I'm traverse the world. No one cares.
Well traveled. I went to Charlotte.
Ooh, I I did so many business class flights and sat in lounges and you No idea how many of those are business class. How many of those are called?
I'd be like, like a lot. I'd feel like a lot of them
Are, I flew a, I flew economy to Charlotte yesterday or whatever day that was. Oh,
India, Charlotte was economy.
Let's talk about your international one.
Doha was first class royal sweet with a shower and a masseuse.
Don't forget the, the personal chef. Anyway, that's
Not the point. That's not the point.
You're Missing the point. A full economy from Indy
to Chicago, hang on.
It's amazing. They actually, they include now a cobbler
and he makes you a custom pair of shoes on the plane for when you get there. It's incredible.
That Has, that is what's been missing from your travel.
Yes. Yes. Not enough travelers.
Speaking on James. I have a qualm, , I can't wait.
I was tasked with, uh, setting up a live show for St.
Pete. Mm-hmm . Got us a venue. Mm-hmm . All set.
Mm-hmm . And what happened guys?
James got another job.
It's James's fault. We are not doing a show
in St. Pete. What's
He supposed to do?
Say no to driving a, a truck at St. Pete? Yeah.
So that we can talk to seven people.
I'm driving at a stupid bar in St. Pete.
I'm not driving a truck at St.
Pete because I'm dedicated to this show and no one asked.
Right. . But those two things, those two things,
those two reasons, there's no other Reasons.
Okay. Alright. We have exactly one minute left. Yes.
So James, speed round. Yes. We didn't talk about it. Yes.
How A, congrats.
B how excited are you and C had it happen? Go.
Um, reverse order C it happened, uh, via tweet, which is the funniest way I've ever gotten a ride in my life. Um, sorry.
It's very Connor daily of you.
Very Connor, daily of me. And I'm excited about that.
So b very excited. Uh, it's so different.
It's going to be so different. It, it's an 80 lap race,
Which only 10 will be under green, I was gonna say.
But the IndyCar race is a hundred and that's regularly one of the longest duration races of the year.
Um, and these guys are running trucks for the first time on a street circuit.
So yes, over, over under is about 10.5 on the,
on the green flag laps.
And what was the first one? It was, how excited are you?
How congrats it gonna be. Congrats. Oh yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. It's exciting, it's fun.
Um, Spire stepped up in a big way to, uh, to make this all come together and I am very excited to giddy up, man.
Here's funny quick story. I'll leave you guys. We have
A lot of time to talk about that next week, but go quick story. Okay.
Really quick story. Go. So when I was getting my racing
license when I was like 15, 16 years old at the Bridgestone Racing Academy, in most part the chief mechanic was this guy named Don.
And, uh, and Don and I were joking around one day and he was sitting there.
He goes, what? He said, what do you wanna do?
Like, what, what do you wanna race when you, when you get older?
I was like, well, I wanna race in IndyCar.
He goes, yeah, that makes sense. I'm like, what do you mean?
He goes, well, I knew you. You can't go to nascar.
I said, why not? And he goes,
James Hinchcliffe like way too formal a name to be a nascar.
He goes, if you went NASCAR racing, you'd have to be like Jimmy Hinch or something like that.
So above my door on my truck it says Jimmy Hinch, he go on NASCAR racing. Incredible,
Incredible.
Well fun. Today here we can hear about the prep.
We can hear about your goals and ambitions, hopefully alive. Have a good today.
Have a good one today. Don't die.
What about me? No, never.
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