But at the end of the day, you know, us purists were like,
we don't want those people, but Porsche is like,
we don't care who the people are as we wanna make money.
And if we can attract, you know, a bunch of new buyers
that will valid, that will gladly pay
instead of $300,000 MSRP, $450,000 MSRP
for the next GT3 RS or whatever,
because it seems that's what they're used to, then great.
Now we've already moved up market.
Well, you're talking about the Insta that I posted
when we were on Ocean Drive in Carmel by the sea
and it was a gorgeous, probably original,
it was an 812 GTS, which is a spider.
I'm guessing based on what I remember about it,
probably had a, you know,
the original owner probably paid $6,500,000 for it.
And behind it was a GT3 RS, Whiteworth Green.
And I'm telling you the GT3 RS,
now it was the, the Whiteworth Green cars
I think you're selling for 400 to 450.
And the Ferrari now is selling
for probably about the same price.
And between the two cars,
and they're both, you know, right on the main drag,
all these kids taking pictures and whatnot,
the Porsche was getting way more attention.
And I think Dave, what Dave,
I hadn't even considered what you said.
I think you're right.
I think that's the truth.
It's basically gonna be seen, or it is for now,
the entry level sort of,
but again, Casey, you might,
I think I shared this link
because I don't wanna take credit for this,
but it was a really good observation,
somebody on another podcast said,
you know, if you see a 918,
if the average human sees a 918 roll by,
they don't really look at it.
But if they see a GT3 RS roll by,
especially if this guy, right?
I mean, they're gonna think the winged up,
darted up, tacked up, loud, blah, blah, blah car
is the more special car.
And to the person buying those cars now,
that is probably 50% of the reason they buy it
is because they want the attention.
Am I wrong or am I right?
And that is totally different for Porsche
in this type of product, in my opinion.
I mean, we've talked about it a lot.
And I do believe that, I mean,
from what I saw regarding Car Week
and from what you conveyed to us,
it's a lot of younger people with a lot of money.
Those people, I believe, gravitate towards style.
They gravitate towards the fact
that when I went to the Andial thing last night,
they talked about how, I mean,
Alwyn was wearing one of the Andial t-shirts
that has now been licensed by Porsche.
So they have Andial shoes, they have Andial hats,
they have Andial key chains,
you know, they're selling all these things.
And now they're selling an Andial livery on GT3s.
I do believe that Porsche is working
towards becoming a fashion brand.
And I think the GT3 RS with their marketing
of using, you know, people like Dua Lipa
for her own special edition version of the car.
And they're reaching out to that younger generation
with money that like these things
to really gain a focus and gain a momentum with those people.
And I do believe these people
that are looking at these cars now
are more forward thinking than backward thinking.
I mean, if you think about it,
the 918 is 10 years old.
So a 25 year old or a 30 year old person
would have been 20 years old back then.
Who knows if they were even thinking
about 918s back then.
But I do believe that the way that Porsche's
the younger generation is always looking
for the newest, latest and greatest.
It's like when people line up to get special sneakers
at sneaker stores or those kinds of things,
Paul's probably got a bunch of special sneakers
knowing him, especially where he lives.
But like that, I believe that it's really
becoming more fashion and style
than it is necessarily for performance and lap times.
And I mean, we've talked about it before.
I don't think it's anything new.
Well, I hope it, you know, again,
in case you'll know more about this than I do.
But the parts transfers between a special GT3 RS
and a GT3 race car, right?
They're literally the same part numbers.
I've seen people put cars up on lifts
and literally the same part numbers,
control arms all the way from stem to stern.
The car is virtually the same.
You do that to a Ferrari.
You do that to a Speciale,
a 458 Speciale versus the race car version
or certainly the 296 Speciale
versus the ones at the Challenge cars.
They don't have hardly any shared parts.
So I'm fearful that Porsche is gonna say,
why the hell are we spending,
putting so much really high-end content in these cars
if people are just buying these for the flash?
Why don't we just start selling them more decals
and selling them more colored fricking carbon fiber
and all that other stuff?
I hear you.
I hear you, but I really think that
at the end of the day,
it comes down to Nurburgring lap times.
And if you can't put up a solid lap time,
to say that you're better than everybody else,
I don't think they've gotten to the point
where they have not made that
the forefront of their attention.
Except for Ferrari doesn't play that game
and they don't have a fast.
They're not in the top 10.
I don't even think they have a car in the top 20
at Nurburgring.
Oh, and by the way, and thank you for reminding me,
I believe Corvette has,
is three cars in the top 10 for production cars.
And I know you love Corvette.
So I thought I'd mention that.
I do.
Actually, I came across the Facebook memory
the other day I sent to my dad
of us driving the Corvettes at Carlyle
and his 60 Corvette and made me smile.
I think my quote underneath of it was,
who needs a Porsche when you're going into Carlyle
with your dad and his 60 Corvette?
So I do like certain Corvettes, just not the new ones.
Yeah, got it.
Well, now let's make fun of Paul
since he's got his mic muted.
You know, this is a value question.
I have this for you guys.
If I give you an example here.
So I had a friend of mine that wanted to get
a new Ferrari F80 and those cars right now
are supposedly trading hands for,
you know, 4 million, 6 million.
I don't even know what the number is,
but he wanted to get one.
The dealer, my dealer, I know two dealer owners,
store owners, and they both told me
to tell him the same thing.
He's got to buy every special edition high-end car
by Ferrari, starting at the 288 GTO, ideally.
The Enzo, LaFerrari, F50, F40, all of them.
He has to buy all those cars.
That's 25 or 30 million.
Then he has to have at least one example
of the current models in his possession as garage
for a Sangue, you know, all the others.
And then he has to participate
in a Ferrari Cliente program
or do something with racing
and probably also buy a race car
before he's even going to be considered.
And so I called him up thinking
he was just going to say,
joke, I won't do it.
And what he told me was,
he said, okay, help me put it together.
And I wonder, and so that must be what's happening
in Ferrari world that's making Ferrari so bold
that the owners are willing,
they raise the bar or raise the bar, raise the bar
and the owners are going like, yeah, let's go, let's go.
You know?
And that is probably going to happen
in the Porsche world too,
which getting to my value question
and makes me wonder if these cars
that we think are like full retail
at 2016 9-11 are 2019 speeds
during all these other things.
Whether those cars are actually going to seem kind of cheap
as Porsche starts to play the Ferrari game.
What do you think, Dave?
I think for sure.
I mean, and they will be relative to what Ferrari's doing,
but I do think that as these other cars
keep coming up in price,
it's going to bring up all these other special cars as well.
You know, the cars you just referenced him.
So I do believe that everything is going to just keep
going up and up and up,
especially as the amount of these cars go down
in terms of production and so on and so on.
Yeah, I'm definitely able to believe that this thing is,
these prices are going up.
It's going to lift everything.
And I'm not a fan of the livery stuff in the least.
And for lots of reasons, the most, you know,
liveries don't last forever.
That's for sure too.
If you start ripping that stuff off,
what are you doing to the paint underneath that car?
Where is this car going to be stored?
If that thing is a super collectible,
you know, vinyl does not last forever.
That's for sure.
Bades, yeah for sure.
I don't like that.
Yeah, and especially if they put it on
if the paint isn't fully cured,
but I know there's lots of techniques.
But still, when you take off PPF,
that's old PPF on cars, you can take paint up.
It's not, that's kind of common, honestly.
Absolutely.
Especially on Ferraris.
Yeah, no, true story.
Yep.
Yeah, for sure.
So moving, that's a good question.
So what are the warrant,
what are the PPF manufacturers suggest
and how long you should leave it on the car
before you take it off and replace it?
Is there a timeline on that?
It had to be up to 3M.
Porsche uses 3M materials for all of their liveries.
I know, but there is a difference
between vinyl and paint protection film as well, right?
So that's why some of the paint protection film guys
have started to do colored paint protection film
because it is easier to come on and off the car.
It's not as the adhesives and stuff are different
in terms of their makeup.
I wouldn't want to be leaving vinyl on a car
more than two or three years, probably.
Again, depending on how it's stored
and everything else.
And Casey, the image you have behind you,
I mean, a race car is one thing.
That stuff comes on and off and on and off
and they're changing it all the time.
But boy, if you ever tried to take old vinyl
and we have off 993s, it is a bear
and it ruins the paint underneath.
If you've had it on there for 10 years
or something like that,
you can absolutely expect a paint job.
I almost guarantee it.
Even if you don't take the paint up,
you can't get the fade differences to,
you can't wet sand it out, it's just ruined.
Yeah.
Plus the car, the paint is faded underneath
and the vinyl isn't faded and it's protected the paint.
And I mean, putting vinyl on a car
for a long period of time is a problem for sure.
I definitely am not a big vinyl guy
on full wraps and things like that.
I mean, the only experience I have
with long-term vinyl application,
reapplication is my client with the four liter,
the top surface vinyl, it was weird.
It kind of, it was definitely degrading.
So the kind folks at Goudon, Porsche
were able to source me fresh vinyl from Germany.
And we put that on and I saw the,
I mean, the car's white of course,
so you can't really tell for color degradation,
but it came off and went back on fine
and that car was, I mean, it's garage,
for sure in climate control and it wasn't a lot,
but maybe, I mean, a lot of these GT3,
I mean, how many people street park GT3s
or park them in the sun or those sorts of things?
A lot of people will ceramic coat them
so they've got the UV rejection or whatever.
I mean, I'm not a detailer, so I can't comment,
but I mean, I hear what you say.
Why would you ceramic coat a car
and then put PPF over it?
Explain that.
Well, I don't, normally you put,
normally you put ceramic coating over top of PPF
because if you put ceramic coating down,
most times things won't stick to it.
So I'll just say, I'll use real words,
I think it's a scam and it's been going on a long time
and a lot of people will pay too much
putting down ceramic coat
and then their detailer or their installer says,
you have to put ceramic coat and then you put down,
he's back.
I know what he just did gross.
Feeling fresh, feeling fresh and lovely.
And then you, he washed his hands
and then you put down the PPF over it.
There's no reason to do it.
I'll tell you guys a little funny,
if you get a new Ferrari dear listener or dear viewer
and you see the little and you see the inevitable
paint defects in the car,
the best thing for you to do psychologically
is not worry about getting the paint defects fixed
because you won't just put some PPF over it
and they'll all go away
because all new, all new Ferris in particular,
I don't know why,
but they always have the nastiest ass swirl marks.
I don't know if it happens at the port.
I don't know if it happens over in Italy
and someone just says the dealership will fix it
and then you can see these, you know, it's crazy.
Throw some PPF on it.
You'll never remember that they were there.
There you go.
You wonder why the paint comes off
when they remove the clear bra on the future.
Now the sanding marks underneath of clear coat,
I've seen it all on Ferraris.
No, that's a good point too, dude, because you're right.
There's no way that paint's gonna adhere correctly
if there's fricking sanding marks.
Yeah, me too.
We had a new piece to deliver it, all right?
And I'm looking it over
and I used to be a car detailer at a car detail shop.
And I went, I found not on,
so they paint the stripe over the ridge
and we did Rosa Corsa with the, you know,
the white and blue stripe.
Of course, yes, Paul, I made fun of myself.
And on the nose of the car and the tail of the car,
you could see the, you guys know what a DA Sander is?
I know Dave does.
You could actually see the fricking DA Sander marks
underneath the blue and white stripe.
And I'm standing there with this general more,
this is an Austin, the general manager of the store
and he's like, ah, it's Ferrari.
What the hell are you gonna do about it?
You're gonna do nothing about it.
You're not gonna get him to fix it.
Yeah, somebody else will buy that car.
Well, you know what you do is you put PPF on it
and you forget it's there
or get a PPF before you even see it
and then it's all good, clear conscious.
That's the move, that's the Ferrari.
That's advanced player mode for Ferrari buyers.
So anything in the automotive news segment here
that caught your guys' attention,
anything you guys would like to talk about?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, for me, the biggest thing,
close friend in the automotive world,
Rod Emery's dad, Gary Emery, sadly passed away.
I think unexpectedly passed away.
I think it was on Wednesday.
I've known Gary since the late 90s.
You know, when I had my replica spider,
he had parts obsolete.
He was just, I think, leaving Costa Mesa heading to Oregon
and he, you know, I pastored him
and then even when he was up in Oregon,
I got my first 911T in 2001
and I was dealing with seats.
And if you've ever met Gary
or you've ever seen him at like,
he was at Airwater recently, Casey.
He always has a crowd around him
because Gary loves to tell a story.
You know, like I will tell a story
and you will be captive until you're bored to death
but Gary will go beyond that.
And really neat person.
Rod posted something.
His dad passed away in his arms.
I saw that.
Through the sources and people I know,
this is just speculation.
I think he went out, you never,
it's always too soon.
I mean, he was probably in his late 70s,
spunky, healthy guy going to Glamis
and, you know, Pismo
and doing all the other off-road stuff with Rod.
I mean, he's just a hot rodder through and through.
This was sort of his iconic car.
It was at Airwater.
It's been at a bunch of loof cults.
I think on the top it says something turned me over
because it did flip over at one point in a race
and they, you know, re-put it back together.
At one point, I thought they were gonna do
one of the Pegasus upside down just to make it work right
but yeah, Gary's a cool dude.
And, you know, he went out,
I think quickly, possibly heart attack, health, immediate.
It wasn't like a long drawn out thing.
But, you know, he, and by the way,
this photo is taken by my good friend, Randy Wells.
He did a piece for Panorama years ago on him
if you get a chance to see it.
But, you know, rest of peace, Gary, good guy.
Yeah, God bless you, sir, definitely.
How about you, Dave?
Anything in the news that catch your eye?
I mean, I was just looking
because we'd talked about some of these cars
that were going away and I saw a story
about all the models, the stands, you know,
some SUVs and so on that are effectively
going by the wayside for 25.
So there's cars that are just no longer
gonna be around anymore, including, you know,
Acura's killing the TLX,
Audi kills the A4 after this year as well.
Yeah, I'm bummed about that.
Yeah, but what I read suggests
that they're just doing some kind of reorientation
of the numbering or something along that.
They're also getting rid of the Q8.
I'm just scanning through.
I won't dwell on this too long
because there's a few that you just wouldn't give a crap
if they left or not.
Cadillacs XT4 and XT6 are both gone.
I'm just great till you're not telling us
about a Ford electric truck again, Dave.
That's all.
Well, you know, I tried, but that just didn't,
it didn't resonate with you.
No, you gotta know.
But I know, we aren't gonna be really disappointed
to hear that the Chevy Malibu is no longer gonna be.
Exactly.
I wouldn't know a Malibu if it bit me in the ass,
would you guys?
I mean, unless that's the platform
for like the six-speed manual with the Corvette motor,
that was interesting other than that.
Yeah, like to fall asleep.
Polestar, the Polestar leaves.
The Polestar.
Okay, that same thing.
Dave, I think, Dave, I'm afraid you're done.
If you can't bring it back to be beyond brand
with full throttle talk.
Are we gonna talk about, you know,
how to pick old folks home next?
What you look for in the plug?
Obviously the, you know, the 718 series Porsches,
may they also, they're also gone
for the, you know, after, for a foreseeable future.
I rather doubt any of those cars that have been electrified
will not have their ICE hearts returned to them
because that's what the market demands.
And that's one of the reasons a Porsche is so screwed
right now is because the, you know, the all seeing,
you know, round table of the Smara Ratzi
over in Europe had decided that everyone wanted
an electric car and it turns out nobody wanted
an electric car, very few did.
Electric cars have their purpose and whatnot,
but not in a sports car.
But, you know, time will tell,
maybe the 718 electric version's gonna be phenomenal,
but are you guys interested in the electric version
of the 718, raise your hand.
You know what, I kind of, I think I told you
the last time I was in a 918
because I've driven them at full tilt before.
I went through this wonderful forest road
and I just clicked a thing in electric mode.
And it was pretty amazing being in a car like that
with just the sound of nature around you.
And that's honestly something I really do like
about my electric Vespa, a lot because it kind of puts you
in that kind of bicycle mode
where you're able to be transported through a place,
but you're still able to enjoy what's around you.
At the same time, I love mid-engine Porsches,
they're great, but if they made both of them
simultaneously, I think that might be a better move.
But unfortunately I am really bummed that it's going away,
but it will give us a great topic,
what is the best, you know, 1997 and later
mid-engine Porsche for sure.
Well, write that one down, that's a good idea.
Put that one in the sheet for next week.
So I'm going to change what my automotive news is
in case you can go to last since we,
you can talk about the Ferrari,
which I'm interested in hearing about.
The new, you guys heard about the new Golf R
that's going to have supposedly a 400, okay.
I hope it comes out.
I hope it comes out too.
I mean, seriously, that would be the fricking badass ass car
sold in America, sorry, full stop Porsche
or Ferrari or McLaren or blah, blah, blah, blah,
but it's a 400, supposedly like a 402 horsepower
straight out of the Audi was the RS3.
I mean, come on Volkswagen, please build that damn thing.
I mean, Audi should bring out a,
I mean, I remember when I was in Germany in 2015 or 2016
picking up a McCann for Euro delivery
and I kept seeing all these,
I really wanted a diesel wagon A3.
That was when they did the A3 wagons.
If they brought back an A3 wagon now
with that RS3 motor in it, that'd be an awesome car.
But if the Volkswagen, I mean, I've,
my wife only drives GTIs.
We've got a Mark seven and a half GTI now
and we had a Mark five before it.
And I think they're insane.
And that car, like we talked about that spectrum thing,
like that's a way for Volkswagen to make money.
James Pumphrey on the speed channel did a,
we're gonna get into one day our favorite YouTube channels
and we're gonna, I'm gonna talk about two of them right now.
I'll get to one of them in a little bit,
but speed on YouTube is amazing.
It's a whole vibe and James really loves
Mark three Volkswagen's, which I'm big into as well.
But he did basically this big expose
on why Volkswagen is failing
and bringing back a car like they're proposing
really would do so much service for people
that give a shit about Volkswagen.
Is the, is the buzz not a,
is no one buzzing about the buzz
cause it's an EV or cause it's overpriced or both?
I think the, the part of the reason that
it's getting some kickback is they only brought
the big version of it to the United States.
I remember at Rensport, Paul,
were you at Rensport and Rensport seven?
Did you see that rendiest one that they had dressed up
to look like the old parts carrying van?
It was a short wheelbase one than the dark red.
It looked badass.
Yeah, and you know that, and if they did make it,
they would just go like European market only.
Yeah.
Well, they do make a short wheelbase.
They do make a short one, but they don't.
But just not here.
Yeah.
Like the Soraco.
Why aren't they bringing that in?
I don't know.
I think it's cause the whole third row thing,
the whole game with basically lots of, you know,
because they're trying to compete against SUVs.
It's Casey's hitting the nail on the head.
These guys are fearful of making cars
that are too focused in on a specific niche.
And the Gulf are with the, you know,
essentially Volkswagen's PTS thing,
which by the way, their PTS plan,
whatever it's called, you know the name, it's really good.
Their paint options are really cool.
Huge numbers.
But Volkswagen needs to do something like that.
All these manufacturers need to basically go back
to why, what were my original USPs?
What made me special?
Why is it that people fell in love with my products?
And I need to do that again.
And I need to stop trying to be trendy.
I need to stop being crackle, but yeah, go ahead.
But I think the problem is they're,
they're looking at quarterly profits versus long-term.
And what happens is you build a cool golf product
and you have an affordable one all the way up.
And what happens is, you know, like James, you know,
like Casey talked about with James,
we got into Volkswagen, Golfs and Rabbits
because we were young.
We were 15, 16, 17, they were obtainable.
And then what happens is you then become loyal to the brand
and then you have your family
and then you get your Tiguan and whatever else,
three-row Volkswagen, whatever.
What they're forgetting is they just go, well, gosh,
the sport compact, the hot hatch market isn't there.
The market is really for crossovers and three-row cars.
So we'll just go there and they forget that the people
got there because they had a rabbit
when they were in high school.
They do.
Well, so what, you remember the Fiat 500,
which I know, Paul, you're a great fan of.
The Fiat 500 had, I know, the Fiat 500
had the Ferrari edition in Italy.
You guys, you guys know what I'm talking about?
There is a Tributo, oh, please, son.
You know, you won't want to.
That on speed lines would just, I would just, you know.
I'll put the speed line picture back up.
Let me finish making my point.
And yes, please put the speed line picture back up
to get back up, Paul, for that.
But they had a Tributo version of the Fiat 500
and it was Rosso Corsa, Ferrari, Scuderia Stripes.
It was a marketing job.
But what if, wait for it.
It came with a pair of shoes.
Okay, no.
Or purse.
That's pretty good though.
No, but what if, also, I can't remember to come out.
And purse, but the purse would be for Paul.
What if, what if, by the way,
I am never going to get used to guys
carrying freaking Hermes purses.
I saw that when we were out in Carmel too.
It's like, are you carrying,
I asked Julie when I saw this,
is that carrying, is he carrying it for his,
you know, sniffing another wife's girlfriend
would have you?
Nope, it's his.
I'm surprised that Rolex you bought didn't come with one.
Well, I bought this back
when I was probably younger than you.
So I've had it forever.
I bought this bad boy in the nineties.
So as far as Volkswagen,
Golf R, Porsche edition.
Oh, now you like it.
So why don't they do some kind of marketing thing
with Porsche and then they can essentially,
Volkswagen, since they're all part of the same family
who are all suffering equally, you know, Vag,
what they could hypothetically then make it so that,
you know, the Volkswagen, Golf R, even the GTI
were to be the gateway drug onto the Porsche family
since, since Volkswagen doesn't go into the more expensive
stuff anymore.
There would be my marketing idea.
You could have that Porsche and Volkswagen.
I think it's a great idea.
The problem is, you know,
you have to have almost as Japanese long-term thinking
that, that Porsche and, you know,
I like to call them Vag group doesn't really think of.
They got a core,
they got this quarterly profits.
They're all publicly driven.
And they're not ready to go produce a car,
have losses of billions for maybe, you know,
five to six years.
Could you please stop talking like you are right now?
Cause we do not want to discourage them
from making our fricking RS3.
No, I would be honest, I want it.
You should call it an RS2.
I wanted the RS3.
I want like literally if we got the RS3 hatchback,
I would have been definitely a buyer for that potentially.
Me too.
Yep.
I hate the sedan.
I don't think it's good looking at all.
And the sad thing is, it is a great car.
And I agree, the sedan is so boring.
As much as I hate an M4, I might, or an M3,
I would get that over the sedan.
Well, people, again, and I know this,
this is an arguable thing,
but why do people in the United States
not like smaller cars?
Why do people in the United States not buy hatchbacks?
And it's because it's a status thing.
And it's people will say it's safety
and people will say it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But the reality of it is, is you can make
an equally safe, lighter, smaller car,
but people, essentially the big brains over in Europe
think that Americans won't buy it
and they're probably right.
But also, you know, everyone wants, you know,
you ask women, they love their SUVs
because they got better visibility.
But now everyone's driving an SUV.
So you drive a sports car.
It's like driving through a moving canyon
like New York City.
I mean, I'm in a 911 and it's like, you know,
there's no like finding somewhere
where I have visibility at all.
I mean, it makes me almost want to.
914s are the worst.
Oh, yeah, I bet.
Yeah.
Yeah, you just feel like you're just
going to be a footprint on some other SUV.
That TR2 I bought, Casey, you'll understand this.
So you could literally like put your arm out the window
and practically have your elbow scratch the ground.
That's how small that is.
Well, I can drag my hands on the,
I can drag my fingernails on the ground
when driving my dad's TR3.
There you go.
So you have something interesting to share with us
about, yes, Paul's favorite topic, Ferrari.
Casey, go for it.
So I think Paul can get down with older Ferraris
that are interesting, especially ones that aren't made
by Ferrari but are made by English people.
So the car behind me, if you look,
I love the Haggerty YouTube channel.
I think it's tremendous.
I have my two favorite automotive journalists
are Chris Harris and Henry Cachpole.
And I would add Jason Camisa into that as a third.
I like Jason especially his Corvette thing
he did for Haggerty.
The love or hate Corvette, that was fricking
off the charts, bonkers good.
Sorry, Casey.
So Henry Cachpole did a story of the ProDrive 550 GTO
that won its class in Le Mans,
I think in 2003, the GTS category.
The car behind me is that car and it,
in the video, it didn't look like this.
If you look at the driver's side rear fender,
you can see it's got kind of like a blue and white livery.
That's how the car shows in the video
because the car ran so long
and under so many different liveries,
but it's a tremendous video.
I didn't know that much about 550 GTOs
but being that my buddy owns one
and I drove it the other week,
when this video came up,
I was like, well, I'll check this out.
And it was awesome.
It was pure tremendous storytelling,
talking about, I think Ali Gavin was in the video,
he was running the C5Rs against them at Le Mans.
They were talking about closing speeds
and it was just, it was so well done.
It was so well scripted
and I'd really just, I'd really recommend everybody,
check it out, it was tremendous.
The ability to drive fast and talk
in a non-excited or overly energetic way.
So you can actually convey a thought
is I don't have that skill.
And when I was driving that 550,
like it was so difficult for me to shift
and engage a gear and make sure it's,
cause it's got these long overhangs
to not stick the front end into something.
I can't imagine, I would love to be with somebody
that drove a car like that in period
that really knew what they were doing
or had 50,000 miles in one
because to me the car had so many different
like inflection points of steering.
Actually the steering was really great
because the wheelbase is short, just like that 997.
But you, when you're shifting gears,
like I get, I think Ferrari puts
gated manuals in cars
because their manual transmissions are so bad
that you need the gates to actually be able to find gears.
Is that the case, Paul?
Have you driven these manuals?
I mean, I always wondered maybe 911s needed it
and they just like a 901 and a 915 needed a gated shifter.
Casey, it's just a historical thing.
It's like Porsche had in the key on the 911 on the side
cause the gets, you know, the, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That's all it has nothing to do with bad transmissions.
But the engagement and everything felt so interesting
that it would really be cool to experience that car
with somebody that really knew how to drive it.
And I'll make that a goal of mine.
I've not ridden as a passenger in the car before,
but it was pretty great.
But anyway, absolutely do yourself a favor
and watch that video.
It's awesome.
It is really, really great.
Who, V12s?
Paul, have you ever driven one?
Sure, we sold a 550 Maranello gated shifter
and it was lovely.
And, you know, and going back to what Casey said
and we talked about this before the show,
which I think the minute we get on the show, Tim,
just hit record, we could edit it out.
I know.
Like the shit we sling is pretty freaking great.
I'll do that next week.
And we touched on it briefly, but, you know,
the nuance of how, you know, even a 550 Maranello,
that's 90s, it's not really that vintage,
but it still had a leg planted in the vintage world.
And I remember driving that car
and I was like, I got that car to sell.
It was a beautiful silver with a blue interior,
97, 550 Maranello, 19,000 miles.
We sold it in 2011 for 70 grand.
And it, I was like, I'm gonna drive this for a week.
Daily driver, grocery shop, take the kids to school,
do everything like a regular car.
And in the beginning, it was sort of temperamental fry.
I didn't like second gear, cold, the normal stuff.
And then once you kind of calibrated,
it didn't test drive well, what I like to say.
In 30 minutes, you weren't gonna be proficient at it.
And in a week, I got semi-proficient at it
just cause I drive different cars.
But that's like, I always tell people,
these old cars take six months to calibrate to.
Like they're not gonna drive like your modern car.
And once you got the 550 Maranello kind of figured out,
it was great.
And then going to what you said,
you know, a really big collector,
funny guy here in Orange County,
he wants to buy the car.
He says, bring it over to my shop.
I never like to do that,
but he's a good friend.
It wasn't far away.
I bring it over there.
He takes, he has a bunch of these cars, old Ferraris.
He knows how to drive them.
He has, he's part of the cliente program
with one of Michael Schumacher's F1 cars.
He's bat shit crazy.
I don't know if I trust him, but I know he can drive.
We get in the car
and we do the most harrowing street drive
around his property.
It's like this three miles square block loop,
like literally right hand red light
drifting into the corner.
And it was awesome.
I mean, it was like,
like you could have been in an eighties Ferrari.
You could have been a seventies Ferrari.
It just had all of that,
which I still think the 360
and maybe the 430 have.
But now you get to these guys in the new cars,
you know, well, obviously don't have a manual anymore.
And they, you know,
if you're driving on 30 miles an hour, they're easy.
You know, it's like, fuck easy.
I want these cars to be bitches at 30 miles an hour.
You know, I want them to be clear
that like you are using me the wrong way.
And if you're going to use me the wrong way,
I'm going to make it difficult for you.
I want to be on the open highway or whatever.
He's really, he's really salty.
Have you driven a V12?
I've not driven one.
I've been in a passenger, not driven one.
So what would be, Casey,
how would you encapsulate driving that 550?
Like what was the experience you had
driving a 12 cylinder front engine Ferrari?
And Paul, the front engine versus the men engine
is a huge difference when you drive a front engine Ferrari
because, you know,
you can say an 812 Comp to Zione as a performance car
and whatever, but it's really a GT car, you know,
because just that's just how it is.
But what was your experience
given all your Porsche background?
Well, I actually look after a lot of Ferraris too.
I look after an F12 TDF and an 812 Comp.
And my buddy that owns this car owns a 599 as well.
And like LFA's that I could never,
I love the sound of LFA's,
but the transmissions are horrible.
The 599 transmission is,
it's not as bad as an LFA transmission.
But to me, I wanted to feel this car with this recipe.
And it was, the funny thing for me
is it reminded me of bad boys too.
I don't know if that's a 575 or a 550.
To me, they look the same,
but I have a picture of myself from a zillion years ago
at the Ritz Carlton in New Orleans
standing in front of a 550 when they were new.
And it was, to me, it's archetypal.
I think it is one of the most beautiful,
modern-ish Ferraris.
It's a Lucca Montezemolo car, if I'm not mistaken.
And when he was in charge of Ferrari,
I thought the cars looked a lot better.
You know why?
I don't.
They're all designed.
Who knows?
Who knows?
So can I interject a story here?
You guys will appreciate.
So we're at Pina Farina in Italy, right?
Of course.
And this is, as Ferrari was moving
to have their own design studio,
I forget what it's called,
something fancy in Italian, on campus at Ferrari.
So up until that point, about when we were there,
which I think was 2011,
Pina Farina had done all their designs.
And Lucca would fly in because our little group,
we were with the Car Guy Tour thing.
So the Lucca would fly in on a helicopter
over to Pina Farina from, you know, Maranello.
And they said they could hear him coming from miles away
because the helicopter was making so much ruckus.
And then he would land to your point,
Paul, about him having taste.
And he would go in there and tell the designers
what he did or didn't like about their designs.
And so a lot of the Ferraris from his generation
were directly influenced by his design.
And the one in particular that they were saying
that he really had a lot of hands on was the Lusso.
And, you know, what was it called before that?
And now-
It was the FF, FF, FF, FF, right.
Which, I mean, one of the few Ferraris I would love to have.
Well, I mean, everyone who's driven those cars
say they're magnificent.
And, you know, French and Ferrari,
you can actually seat four people comfortably.
I knew the former GM of the Austin Ferrari store
with, and he was a former football player,
he was driving and three of his huge football player friends,
two in the back, one in the front,
and they went out and burned through a set of tires on Kota.
And you know why I like them.
They are an Italian four-seater M-Coupe.
Just, you know, for sure.
I just love how ridiculous they are.
And has anyone manual swapped those cars?
Is that even possible?
Well, let's actually circle around what we're talking about.
Ferrari, manual transmission, all these other things.
There's really a lot of rumors coming out of Idli
that they're going to start making
the very high-end cars with manual options.
And that'll probably trickle down,
because again, these guys are going to try to split the pie
even more amongst their high-end consumers.
And that's going to happen in Porsche
in that same way it's going to happen in Ferrari for sure.
I don't know why Ferrari has waited so long to do that.
So, Dave, I have a question for you.
What is your favorite modern Ferrari
if you had to pick one?
Who are you asking?
Dave.
He's asking me.
I got to make sure he's awake.
There's a worse guy on this podcast to,
no, yeah, I probably, I mean, I kind of like the Roma.
It's a good-looking car.
It's unique.
I mean, that's, it's.
I like the fact that the Roma has a name.
You know, it's not a, no, but a good call.
Did you, I agree.
I can't keep any of the numbers straight
on any of them, candidly.
But Roma is, you know, the cool, good-looking
front-engine car.
I agree.
I think it's beautiful.
Ferrari had the Roma, the Roma.
The Roma and the Amalfi, essentially sitting next
to each other, Acaciti Ferrari this year at Pebble Beach.
And the Roma look so much better than the Amalfi.
The Amalfi's front end and back end.
I don't know what the hell they're thinking
when they redesigned that car.
The original Roma's, I agree with Dave 100%.
I think the Roma, especially the Roma Spider,
is a shockingly beautiful car.
I think the Ferrari 296, the 296 GTS
is also a shockingly good-looking car.
And the GTS is now essentially coming out
as the best modern Ferrari to answer
Casey's inevitable next question.
Yes, Paul, go ahead, get it in.
I'm feeling an allergic reaction
because we haven't talked about Porsche for a few years.
I know, I was thinking we're gonna lose
in our entire audience.
We get back to Porsche.
Okay.
All right, I'm done.
Let's move on.
Let's move on.
Segment three, this week in auctions.
What are your top two?
What are the top two just whatever caught your eye
this week in auctions?
And I'm sure you guys had fun with this.
I'm gonna have Dave go first.
Dave, you wanna go get some coffee, son?
No, I'm good, I'm good.
It's, you know, I'll wake up here, we're good.
This particular car I thought was interesting
and I'll tell you why, good and bad here.
This particular car is a obviously an Outlaw 356A.
It has a history that seemed to have it modified
several times, including the addition of a Polo motor
that we've talked about previously to this build
just a few years ago, 2022, I believe.
This car sold for about $350,000.
Wow.
And I think it could have done more.
I just thought the interior
was a total let down on this car.
That's the thing that I think held this car back.
Okay, let him finish presenting and then we'll talk.
Okay, so go ahead, sorry.
Now what I was gonna say is
the rest of this car I think is terrific.
I mean, it's beautiful color.
The build is good.
The build spec is good.
The builders who built the car,
lots of different craftsmen over the years and so on.
But then you look at this interior
and let's see if I can show it,
which is basically a set of modified
second gen Riccaro sports seats
where they've chopped the tops
and used an adjustable headrest.
Yeah, it looks like a Mark II GTI seat.
They look like two-stone seats.
You guys, let the gentleman present
his two cars he likes.
And then we'll go.
I'm in, go.
And then we'll rip him apart.
No, no, he's right.
No, no, Dave is dead on.
He's right.
But that's why this car,
that's why this car didn't do the money.
I mean, it should,
when you look at an Emory car,
these Emory cars on the secondary market,
I mean, it's costing you $350,000, $400,000
to buy an Emory car when you spec it from Rod.
This car-
How much did you say, Dave?
350 to 400, I think is where the entry point is.
You think he's higher now, huh?
I know he's higher.
The entry point three years ago was $400,000, three years ago.
So, and he talked to,
and actually he talked about it on the Spike show.
I mean, I felt so bad for Rod dealing with those knuckleheads.
But, you know, he basically three years
and you start at $500,000, $600,000.
And it wasn't really clear
that you may have to have the car.
He supplies it.
He supplies it.
Julie and I had one ordered and we backed out on it
because frankly, my interest changed
to be honest with you, which I'll get to in a second.
Yeah. So you had a secondary car too.
And by the way, we love the Emory family.
Just like freaking royalty of the Porsche nerds, you know.
Go ahead, Dave, what was your other car?
The, well, the other auction that I was watching
or it was less a car and more, hang on a minute,
I'm just making sure I'm not confusing things here.
But it looks like it was a, yeah, go ahead.
I thought this was an interesting sale.
And this is basically not a car,
but this was a bargain, in my opinion, for this set of sports seats.
So this particular set of sports seats went for $4,500.
And this is a late generation.
Obviously, I pay attention to this stuff a good bit
because these cars are definitely, or excuse me, these seats
definitely bring real money.
This is a, this should have been six, seven thousand dollars
for this set of seats.
But this, this one went no reserve at $4,500.
They look terrific.
That's one of the best seats that I have ever sat in.
It's my most go-to seat for Porsches is that generation,
which is the fourth generation sports seat
that you found up in through early 993s.
And that's a great buy.
That's a good buy for those seats.
All right.
So I have a question for you guys, his first option, right?
So even if it's an Emory car, an Emory definitely has the premium brand.
If you have a choice between spending $400 to $450 on an Emory,
and we all love Rod, or $400 to $450 on a 356 GS with a 4 cam,
which are you going to choose and why?
You know, you can get a 4 cam for $450 grand.
Yes, sir.
I mean, OK, not apples to apples, not a great one.
Not a great apples.
It's not a great one.
You're right.
Because I'm comparing basically a modernized old car to an old car.
No, no, no, but I'm I'm saying, yes, you can get a 4 cam non numbers match.
Like if you're buying a 4 cam car, you can get a numbers matching GS.
You know how I know how I asked Cam to find me one.
And he said, I asked him what I should expect to spend.
He said $400 to $450 done.
Can I done car done?
Yeah, yeah, done rolling car.
And he and I, this is and by the way, his we should have talked about this.
He has won so many Pebble Beach, you know, awards.
It's ridiculous.
They I don't even know how many.
But his car one, it was sitting next to my friend's D type.
Anyway, that's when I got an opportunity to corner him and talk to him about that.
But he told me we were talking about, look at Paul checking comps.
He told me that he could he could get us.
I know what you're doing.
He said he could get us a three fifty six four cam.
Honestly, we didn't talk about numbers matching or matching or whatever.
I didn't get into it with him.
But he said you can get one of those 400 to 450 grand.
So OK, assuming that's the case, you know, I don't think so.
But assuming that's the case.
Because if you do do that, let me know the end price at the very end when you do.
I would probably still get a Rod Emery for this very reason.
Those GS are cool. They're amazing.
The four cam motor insane.
Not super usable, a nightmare to maintain.
I think that is a market that is aging out and for the GS.
Four cam that are really if you're going to buy that, you buy
is like an RS, you're going to buy a 73 S you go.
You're not even yes, you can find them for six, seven, eight hundred thousand.
No, you plan on spending a million because you might as well get a great one
because finding for so many reasons.
Whereas as much as I love Rod Emery and I think his cars are beautiful
and I'm not necessarily the market, I would probably go with the Rod Emery
because I think in the long run, I think it's a more stable buy
and I hate future value.
But I think in terms of who the buyers are going to be more buyers
down the road for that car than the GS.
And it is a hop in, you know, kicking the pants, fun to drive,
easy to maintain, you know, better experience period, you know,
but I might be right, you might be right.
And that is not traditional advice that you just offered,
but you might be right because this new generation
that we don't completely understand is growing up loving Emery's
because Emery's so trendy and popular.
So you might be right.
Casey, what would you choose?
An Emery 356 or a four cam GS?
It's a tough question because I know people that buy singer cars
for a lot of money and you can buy a singer car,
you can buy like a 3.3 liter of lightweight for like the same amount
of money, which is like crazy that people buy singers when those exist.
Sorry, he's right.
But I drive like I have an old Porsche,
which I'll get into on the next podcast, not this one
that has old Porsche problems.
And every once in a while, I'd like to get in the car.
And when Paul was talking about reacclimating to old car things,
I look after literally some of the best examples of 964s
probably out there.
And I always compare my car to that, which I have difficulties doing
because, you know, it's an old car with a bunch of miles on it.
But I would traditionally tell you that I would go for the original
recipe rad version because it's what's in my blood.
But I know that Rod's cars are safe because they've got really great breaks.
I know that they're put together super well and they who knows
who would have done a restoration on a four hundred and fifty
thousand dollar GS four cam car.
Yeah, well, hold on.
Just just again, so you're saying you're you're bifurcated to
you're of two minds.
But I'll suggest to you that the GS that you can now get
between four and four hundred and fifty was selling for what Paul's
remembering them as a nine hundred to one point two million.
So when the car was restored, it probably was numbers matching
and restored to the highest level.
And so you're just, you know, just for what it's worth.
As far as safety goes, yeah, you're probably right about the breaks.
But the structure is virtually the same.
They're both, you know, essentially rolling beer cans.
Right. I'd probably I mean, I don't like three fifty six
coups personally, but I would go with I would go with the Emory car
in this situation. Dave, how about you think it's a lot more usable?
I would do the Emory car for sure.
Same same reasons that you guys have all stated.
Plus, I just like the styling.
I like what he does.
I like the fact that it's tweaked and and tucked in certain spots.
And and I like what he does with the interiors, which is a little bit
raw, rowdy, rough, but still feeling tailored.
And to me, I think he does a really nice job on the interior work.
So I'd go with the Emory.
All right. So here's the challenge to all of you guys.
He's showing right there in his backdrop, a car that nine people
out of 10 would have assumed was an Emory and arguably, I don't know,
but arguably is built to the same standard.
Let's just assume that it is.
And the problem is the same problem that singers having, there is going to be
if there's a big market for hot rod three fifty sixes,
there's going to be 20,000 other people making the same damn things.
The the vintage three fifty six GS four cams.
They aren't making any more of those.
So moving on now that I got the last word in let me go next
because I'm going to continue the three fifty six game.
Is that OK? Go for it, man.
So I saw that Dave picked this and I was a little bit late.
This car in my picture,
this might be the world's best photography for bring a trailer.
Yeah, this could this could literally be on like you.
If you add like a little sepia to that,
it could have been a period correct photograph from gorgeous 1960.
I would buy this car over all of the cars we just discussed.
It's a one family owned three fifty six a roadster from 1959.
It's a good word sold.
Yeah. And this car sold for all of the money.
And then some it was like three how I got it right here.
Three hundred and three hundred and twenty two thousand dollars plus fee.
So you're at three hundred and forty grand.
If I had a stupid amount of money, I would have bought that car.
But from those pictures alone, it sold me on the whole thing.
And it sold me on this.
I want to go back to nineteen fifty nine or nineteen sixty and live
a simple life in the mountains or wherever in the world that was taken.
And I want to be that person.
Yeah, I have never seen quickly, though.
And having driven the car, you'd get over it very quickly.
Well, I actually I look after it.
I look after a B roadster, which is almost a speedster, right?
And honestly, I'd love a speedster as well.
But putzing around in that car at low speeds is such a vibe.
Like it's such an enjoyable experience.
Like, yes, you any minute feel like you're going to die.
If something if anything were to happen.
But God, it's such a great experience to really be transported back in time.
Fear of death definitely gives for an elevated experience.
That's for damn.
Here's the problem with old cars in general.
Like it's easy to drive an old car and say, man, this thing sucks.
The steering is all over the place.
It breaks for all of us, blah, blah, blah.
No, it sucks.
It's the guy that restored it or the guy before that they restored it
or the 10 times it's been restored.
And nobody knew what the hell they were doing.
They didn't put it back together correctly.
When you drive essentially an original version like what that is
that's been kept up and you know how it was actually supposed to feel.
Assuming it's meant mechanically been kept up.
You are going to have a nine times at a time, a completely different experience.
Well, it's like we talked about triumphs.
I mean, my dad's TR three is awesome.
It is a transportation in time back to 1957.
And I get in that car and it doesn't have a sink.
It doesn't have synchromesh gears.
So when you're going down, you have to put it in second and then into first
to get it to go, but it's such a tremendous experience.
It's just it's really a transportation in time.
And I my nine 14 needs a motor.
But I feel the same way when I drive that car.
I get a lot more pleasure out of driving old nine 14s and old three
fifty sixes than I ever will in my nine sixty four.
Casey, nine 14 with a screwed up motor is the vintage
experience like it was when it was new? Sure.
Yeah, but mine only has one and a quarter cylinders worth of compression.
So so it started with 50 horsepower.
Now it's got like six.
So so next.
Well, just really quick on three fifty six.
I looked at it, too.
And that photographer squeezed over 110 grand out of the buyer
because he was right.
That was the photography was beautiful.
It did exactly what it should.
But I sent this car to a friend of mine who's an expert, a dirt layer.
He knows these cars.
You know, when you look on classic, first of all, the average right now
is two hundred and eleven thousand and it's got a down arrow,
which means it's been going down.
And you look at there's not a lot of cops.
But when you look at the cops, that car was a non numbers matching
red on ten, the least desirable color where colors huge.
When you looked at it, yes, it was one owner.
And I know people love one owner, but one owner isn't always the end of the world.
That car got, yeah, refurbished or like painted and done things.
And it was if you looked at it closely, it was a nice, what I would call
survivor driver, not preservation, but but lightly refurbished over the years.
It probably is a really fundamentally good car.
It's probably dry.
It probably hasn't been yet.
But it's not an, oh, my God, car.
That car is a two hundred and ten thousand dollar car on the best day.
But, yeah, like you said, Casey, the photography and the right room
and the right audience, which this will help us segue to my cars,
which is this eighty nine Carrera G fifty coup
that sold about a week and a half ago.
And what's interesting about this car, it's an eighty nine G fifty
coup in silver with, you know, linen interior.
Let me get this off.
That had those sports seats in it.
That car would be so great.
So if you were playing with around with one of these, weren't you?
Wasn't it you that posted on our WhatsApp group?
One of these. Yeah. So.
So and this is interesting.
Came out of Florida, seventeen thousand miles original paint,
of course, dry ice to the end of the world.
Beautiful car, linen interior.
And what's interesting is my client bought it.
In fact, my client was just foaming at the mouth
when he saw we were getting this car.
And he's like, let me know, because he had bought another blue car for me.
Loves blue.
He missed out on an eighty five Prussian blue car that we had.
That was spectacular.
So he reached his eyes as, hey, I'm not interested in that
because I just bought this thing.
So I call. So I email them.
I'm like, just want to know the inside psyche.
And this kind of tells you this car, you know, ready?
Brace yourself.
Did you guys see this car close? Anyone?
OK, good. I did.
I just can't. I mean, I tried this because it went for a lot of money.
Casey, don't say any.
I mean, Dave, don't say any.
Casey, Tim, eighty nine G50 coupe, silver on linen, not sport seats,
not a one owner, seventeen thousand miles original paint,
an exceptionally nice car.
Very good preservation example.
What do you think it's sold for?
What are my anniversary car?
Not an anniversary.
What's the price for getting it right?
What's the price for getting it right?
You get a purse.
We'll call it a European carry-all.
Well, I have the spreadsheet open, so I see your notes.
So I shouldn't be playing.
Ah, sure. Casey, did you see it?
So how many miles are on it?
Seventeen thousand.
That's that's a lot of boxes.
Hundred hundred and sixty grand, hundred and fifty grand.
Well, you're pretty close.
Basically, one almost one eighty with fees.
So which is a lot.
But this goes in and let in.
If you you saw the G50s coming out after that, they didn't do as well.
I reached out to him.
I said, hey, just curious, like and he has the money.
You know, why did you know what the market is?
He missed out on our eighty five career of forty thousand miles
in Prussian blue that was spectacular, but it was not G50.
He wanted a G50 lives here in Southern California.
We sold that car quietly and quickly for one fifty.
He then says, you know, I have had feelers out
with six different people, including you for a pristine
low mile G50 coupe for the last year.
Sam Cabilio, you know, a Jerry Seinfelds guy,
he had ID'd one that I didn't pull the trigger on that sold for one fifty seven
a midnight blue tan eighty five non G50 similar to the one that we have in New York.
I investigated, told the dealer, I didn't think it was worth it.
And that dealer sold it for two hundred, supposedly because Pasadena
has gotten so hot in the summers, I wanted a light interior.
And as you know, Silver's a classic Porsche color and my favorite,
my Macan GTS commuter is Silver.
My cap was one sixteen, but in the heat of the moment on B.A.T.
And it's two drunk guys in a room.
No, seriously, you have your auctions, have your auctions
and drink a clock, whatever that is in the.
Yeah, but it was but it was if you notice that it was a guy who had
the means and he'd been looking for so long and he didn't care.
He didn't care.
But the thing is, I've already had several people with G50s come to me going,
I here's my algorithm and their car is a seventy thousand mile repainted
ding on car facts, red on tan.
And I'm not trying to explain.
I'm like, my client would never even look at your car.
Those are two separate buyers.
So so going on to the next car.
So that car sold exceptionally well.
And that's why I always tell people public auctions,
private or in-person auctions, internet auctions,
you know, like less than one percent strike lightning when you really look at it.
And it's this formula where something happens.
Now, moving on to another, the other one I saw, which I think this one,
it is a nineteen eighty nine eleven SC
with a three two motor backdated sold here in California.
Just close last week.
Well, it didn't close.
It bid to eighty seven thousand miles.
Looking it is a cool looking car.
And it's painted in what's called dark glacier blue paint,
which this looks to me like pastel blue.
It has rammed a little, though, Paul.
I mean, there you go.
And you nail you nailed it, Dave.
When you look at this car, it it has got a cool motor.
I think it might even have a sticker and past California smog.
I don't know.
It is a personal touch.
I don't think it's bad looking, but the photos sucked for sure.
It's stupidly slammed and all the photos, you know,
this photo looked nice because you couldn't tell it was slammed.
But this photo, kind of good picture.
This photo, a stupid fiberglass S bumper.
Look at the wheel fitment in the front.
They didn't put spacers on it.
But, you know, nice three two motor.
It bid to eighty seven thousand dollars.
I think this car needed to, you know, do something with the wheel spacing.
Get the fender trim off it.
It didn't didn't match the vibe.
I don't know why there's fender trim on it.
I think there is in one of the photos.
Yeah. And and and raise the height.
And I think this car, this car should have been a 120 130 car.
If it was, it looked I went through all the pictures.
It looked pretty well built.
So those are my two cars.
Thoughts. Well, I mean, yeah.
I'm surprised the blue car sold for that much, to be honest with you.
Well, the blue car bid, it didn't sell to eighty seven thousand.
Oh, well, I mean, eighty seven seems like good money for that thing, based on,
you know, but from a from a making money perspective, Mr.
Yous car dealer, I mean, that would have been a good car to get
and make right and put back for sale.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
You could have said ten grand on that thing and made forty hundred.
Dave knows looking at this stuff.
This car, when you really get the pictures, it's actually done pretty well.
This is it's good taste.
I looked close at the seats.
They use nice materials.
The interior wasn't fucked up.
It's just they made some poor design.
Get rid of the front headlights.
Right. Get rid of it.
It's got pop windows, which are super dope.
That's great. Yeah.
And all the trims chrome.
It's like they got to the one yard line and fumbled big time.
Oh, well, but again, there's an example of someone would purchase that.
If someone would say Dave or say someone like Paul or say someone like Casey
would direct message the seller on bring a trailer,
probably can get a pretty good buy on the damn thing and make some money on it.
But here's the now going back to what we talked about earlier.
It's now got an anchor price of eighty seven thousand.
Yes, it didn't sell.
But how many buyers that call me to go, yeah, I saw that for
I saw that I bring a trailer sold for fifty.
Yeah, you're right. Look at it. I'll go, no, it did.
It didn't sell because, well, two people in the room,
that's what they thought it was worth.
So I think this car, even if it's fixed right, might be doomed.
So let me ask you to change it a bunch.
You'd have to modify.
You'd have to do some things that make that car look really different
and then probably pick another venue to try to sell it.
You know, some. But but it's just one.
Then Google, you just get a number and you're there.
You don't even have to Google anymore.
Just like classic.com.
Yeah. Well, so a couple of things.
First of all, try to get Dirk on the podcast
because without a doubt that guy is the expert of experts.
And you've you've met him before, I assume you connected me with him
when I had when I didn't want to take delivery of our 67 s
after it was done with restoration and he made a shit list,
which frankly made Marco and his dad not like me for quite a while
because it was long.
I I've known Dirk for over 20 years.
He came by the hospital when we talked.
He is an acquired taste and we joke over the years.
I have picked up his salty traits and he's actually softened.
He's becoming more like me, which is probably not wrong.
But I refer like with your issue, like Dirk is right.
When people don't realize when you go to a Lufka Colt,
you see those super, super special cars at Lufka Colt.
90 percent of them are coming from Dirk's clients.
Dirk's coordinating him.
He's in the background.
He's getting there.
He never asked for recognition.
So when I have a client calls me that wants to spend money
on something special, like, for instance, Tim, if I told
if you talk to him and said I want a Carrera GS, you know,
four cam and I can get it for 400, he will laugh at your face
because he knows he knows the players involved
and he knows what it takes because for him.
Well, remember, by the in my defense, I didn't say it.
I am only passing on to you who arguably one of the biggest
experts of four cam three fifty sixes in the world told me.
Now, it's possible, I suppose, that I heard wrong, but I didn't.
Now, I have another question for you guys, all three of you.
These cars, these dry ice, like so, for example,
first of all, it's always funny when you're reading comments on bat.
You can always tell how old somebody is based on whether or not
when they ask a question, like, what's all that yellow shit underneath the car?
You know, because they don't know what cosmoline is.
But other than this, would you remove?
Would you dry ice a cosmoline, you know, 80s car
just to make it look better in pictures, given the fact
that you're now exposing all those metals, metal bits and bobs to
corrosion, Dave, you first, I would, I would not take off the cosmoline.
I would set the dry ice settings to get rid of all the dirt, but leave the cosmoline.
And if, in fact, I disturbed too much of it, I would actually reapply it.
100% because you want to have that originality.
First of all, you want the cleanliness because that absolute those underpicture
undercarriage shots with the car looking like that.
That's that's money for sure.
You're going to spend $3,000 to get that thing dry ice blast underneath.
But if you go too strong with it, then you're going to end up looking like,
you know, it just it just doesn't look right.
It doesn't look authentic.
So put the put some of that cosmoline back on.
That's what I would think.
Well, I'll suggest a trend is going to be is to install
cosmoline on cars that are freshly restored because that's going to
become more desirable because it's going to make it look authentic.
But Casey, what do you think?
Cosmoline or no cosmoline on a car from that vintage?
So I look after a 1200 mile 89 speedster.
It's white with red interior and a blue top.
Beautiful car has the the most cosmoline I've ever seen under any car.
And when it because it's always in the air,
because I don't put many miles on that one, that's that one's
more of a warm up in place kind of thing.
You know, it's a little bit gross to look at,
especially when you see how it originally came, because it's still
it's still, you know, you can still move it around with your fingers.
It's like it's never it's never driable.
Yeah, it's an absolute time capsule of a car.
There are places where I think it is necessary.
There's a shop near Dave called Merit
that is a really, really great guys.
I've messaged them a bunch because I need some work done on my land cruiser.
And I'll likely send it down there when the time comes.
I don't like to blast everything off.
I've looked at some vehicles that have sold through Canepa
and they do they blast off everything off the bottom of the car
from what I have perceived from the invoices.
And when I've seen the bottoms of the cars, I like stuff that looks more original.
I like stuff that is a little bit, you know, as it came from the factory
as it was intended.
So I would agree with Dave, just dial it back.
So really, you're just getting the crud off, but leaving as much of the
originality as possible where we miss and not letting younger folks know.
Cosmoline is basically this oily goop that they stuck up.
I think it was made by Comfort Worth or something.
It's paraffin base paraffin base.
There you go.
And it basically covered everything under side of the car.
And it was for arguably the long boat ride over from the motherland.
So the salt air didn't eat the car alive.
So, Paul, what do you think? Cosmoline or no Cosmoline?
Do you don't dry ice your cars?
Do you know?
So if you look at our videos on Instagram, we will steam clean them,
which is a fraction of the cost.
Like to do a full car properly, you start at two thousand dollars
to dry ice and it goes up to maybe three thousand dollars.
There are some ways we can do just the engine.
You can get it down to fifteen hundred.
We spend on average three hundred dollars to steam clean them,
which gets us 80 percent of the way there.
Now this car here, the one that my friend bought for one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars, if it wasn't dry iced, he probably
went to bought it. It was part of the whole sales package.
Now, I have taught.
I wish someone would do like triple zero is the perfect platform
to do a deep dive on this, because I would love to know
if you bought a German spec car in Germany, did it have
paraffin, did it have this Cosmoline paraffin substance?
Like you mentioned, it was for the boat ride over.
Now, I think in some cases it's done a really good job,
especially for East Coast cars to preserve it.
Now, I remember distinctly in the early, let's see,
it would have been mid eighties.
My dad and I went to Mercedes North America Delivery Center,
which was in Boine Park near Knott's Berry Farm.
So all the Mercedes Benz in the eighties coming off the boat
would go directly to this place.
And we saw literally snaking around this entire huge property.
This was probably a three hundred yard.
It looked like a hazmat thing.
Imagine a dryer vent big enough for a car to go through.
You know, this sort of dryer vent looking thing
that wrapped about three hundred yards around the building
and it had ramps.
These cars would come in now.
You know how many deliver cars?
They've got like paper and bags and all this weird shit around.
These cars didn't have that the entire car.
Windows, everything was covered in Cosmoline.
See, I didn't know that. Did you guys know that?
Well, it's like it might be like those Jaguars
that I was talking to Paul about before,
where they had the it was a responsibility of the dealership
to remove the Cosmoline from the paint.
Yes, Casey. Did you did Casey and Dave?
Did you guys know they covered the entire car?
I thought they only did the underside.
I got a BMW that way in the early nineties.
Well, that's cool.
Now, I don't know. Porsche did.
I never saw Porsche.
So it was wild as these cars would drive on the ramp.
There may be like two feet off the air.
They're driving slowly, like almost a conveyor belt.
And there is a 360 degrees hot steam water thing
shooting this car.
And it's basically steam water melting off the paraffin.
And it takes 300 yards of going through that.
And it comes out pretty sparkling clean.
Of course, it goes to the shop and they're going to have to detail it.
And they do stuff to get the rest of it off.
But in the engine, they don't do any more thing.
And you can imagine, there's a lot more left on the engine.
And my dad had a 79 300 diesel and sure enough,
it had Cosmoline on there.
So in in my purse, going back to your answer,
I believe this product was not supposed to stay on the car.
I believe it was supposed to come off the car
based on just my anecdotal knowledge.
In the case of a car like Casey's, where it's super low mile
and it's preservation, leave it on.
What I hate most is they see this Cosmoline
and it could be a low mileage car.
But as you mentioned, it's a soft paraffin, gooey thing.
And guess what? It gets oil on it.
And most of the time you look at it and it's not amber,
it's not this honey color, which it should be.
It is gross black snot.
And why have that on there?
So in one case, yes, keep it on.
And by the way, most people don't realize
if you get a really good like house steamer,
you can take a lot of that off yourself.
You don't have to dry ice it and it's not as tedious.
And that's what we do. We make it a little more presentable.
But in my case, unless it's a special car, get that shit off there.
Well, let's start wrapping because I think we've broken a record for yammering.
So I'm going to a little end on a Porsche high note.
And if you guys don't mind sitting through my and I'll make it quick.
I've been watching out of curiosity mostly
and you guys can see in the notes, the Porsche, these latest,
you know, the GT3 market, this ST market and the rest of it.
And these STs, as you guys might remember, are coming off lease.
There were 12 month leases, right?
Casey, you had to lease them for 12 months from Porsche.
Yeah, if you want a 918 bar, right.
So that's right.
And so I heard and I've been told that those are all coming off lease
in the next like two to three months.
And so what's going to happen to the market?
But if you look at right now, for example, the ST is about to come off lease.
What will price? What will be the price spread between an ST?
And I know it's not an exact comp.
There's no difference.
There's more differences between, say, a 911 R than a 911
touring from the same 991 generation.
But if you were to compare the difference in price between an ST right now
and a 992 touring, even a .2 touring, right?
The price difference is extraordinary.
Three double, it's two X basically.
So can you guys, do you guys think that spread will remain?
And what do you think about that?
That market undulation is just due to scarcity
because they're not enough actively for sale.
What do you think, Dave?
I think the price differential for a while will maintain.
And then obviously, just like anything, Tim, supply and demand,
it's going to shrink a little bit, right?
I think right now it's still hot, hot, hot.
So if you've got one and you're going to move it, now's the time to move it.
But as these more and more of these cars of what was it,
like a nineteen hundred and sixty three total of those, I think they were built.
It's still a scarcity thing.
And you can get a lot more GT three, a lot more GT three touring.
I still think that price is going to come down.
If you want to, if you want out, you better get out now.
That's my opinion.
And I wonder if one of these new special edition
Porsches that they're inevitably going to come out is going to be an ST light
or even maybe something more enhanced than an ST just because they need to make money.
Casey, what do you think?
Do you think the price difference will remain?
I think it will.
I mean, you could see it.
What happened?
The first short blue one on Bringetrailer sold for eight hundred.
Yeah.
The second one, no sale, that's seven oh two.
And then basically a couple more trickled in that we're like paint to sample
like there was a fjord green one, I think on Peacar market.
Yep.
But I mean, they're still in the six fifty range.
I mean, I still there's going to be a two hundred to two hundred and fifty
thousand dollar delta between it and a touring eventually.
What's the price difference between a sixteen nine eleven are
and a say, for example, ninety nine ninety one point two touring?
Do you guys know?
I mean, ours are really ours.
Ours and speedsters are on the going way up.
I'm not sure if you paid attention to that.
You probably did, Tim, but my client just sold his green one for too
little and it went in the upper fours and bought a the signal yellow one
that broad arrow was auctioning.
We're talking speedsters now here.
Not so 80 miles.
So all of those cars were four hundred grand for a really long time.
And now they are now they are going up.
Ours are going to be doing the same thing to get an interesting are.
I mean, those cars are five hundred plus.
If it's a paint to sample car or car like the one I look after has like
eighty thousand dollars worth of CXX options on it.
That's an eight. That's seven hundred eight hundred thousand dollar car.
What do you think, Paul?
You know, I just looked up on classic dot com.
There are thirty two Estes on the market.
Right now, that's globally, though, right?
Globally, but still for a that's a lot.
That's a lot.
And I think to you know, we have data that that I bet you if you look at it
and really do some math on it shows you what happens.
It starts with a nine and seven point nine, seven point two.
Cara, you know, RS four point oh, then you have the nine eleven are
then you have the sport classic sport classic.
I think is the one that's going to get lost in all this.
It's just too soon to the ST, but I would say you look at nine
eleven are and RS four point oh, and those two cars come out.
No one, you know, big demand, then no one cares, and then it's going to take time.
And I would say if you have an ST and they're all, like you said, coming off lease.
I think you're keeping that car because I think right now
the only motivation to sell it, there's too many on the market
is what's it going to cost to get the new next greatest thing?
And if if a client called me and said, what do you do?
I said, you know, if you got someone will pay 700 and you're happy with that
or whatever price you're happy, either sell it now or keep it 10 years.
I think it 10 years.
This is a good hold for a 10 year car.
Well, good hold for the sake of a car, but good hold compared to
if you put the 700 grand in the S and P 500.
You're right. Not a good hold. Not a good hold.
In the end, as I always tell my clients, please don't use the I word.
It's not an investment.
That's right. Well, you know what?
You just you guys gave me a lot of great ideas for the spreadsheet.
So maybe we're going to work on the perfect like five car Porsche collection.
You know, you can go. Oh, that'd be a good one.
Yeah, you're going to win on that one. That's the reason you like it.
So maybe we can do that. Maybe we do the modern cars.
What do you guys think? Like so help me define it.
And this way will the, you know, the fans and the listeners
and the viewers will know what to look forward to.
Perfect five car collection help us build our list.
Message us on Instagram.
But you guys want to put it like a back date from what year forward?
What do you guys think?
I think I would just do all of it.
No, it's because you're going to be cranking around the 1950s.
I'm going to pick weird stuff that you guys aren't going to like.
If we're talking like if I when I look at Porsche, it's 1999 and newer.
And that's new Porsche.
Let's do water. How about we just do watercooled?
Watercooled Porsche.
And then you got to pick a price cap.
Yeah, screw that.
It's the perfect five GT one street versions.
Oh, shit. See, Casey's going to cheat.
So you're right. We have to put a price cap.
Yeah, we do.
All right. So what's 300, 300,000.
MSRP or market market.
I think you should do five million.
Of course, you have cars, five.
No, OK. All right. All right, smart asses.
Here's what we'll do.
Let's put a total cap on how much money you can spend.
A total cap.
Your aunt Betty just kicked the bucket
and she said you can inherit X amount of money,
but you have to spend it all on porches
and they have to be watercooled.
So what's the amount of money that Betty just left for you?
Just pick a number.
We're not going to agree.
Half million.
I think we have to work at it
because I think you have to look at, like,
I think what the listeners and viewers are looking at is, like,
five hundred thousand, they might get that.
They might get that in inheritance.
And what are you going to build with that?
Like, you're going to have to make some compromise.
Are you guys accepting five hundred grand?
It's going to be tough, but yeah, we'll do it.
Are we going to do five cars?
Do you now want to limit it to three
since Paul put us on a budget?
Well, let's do three
because five is going to take us a lot longer.
It's he's right. Casey's right.
It'll take us.
I'll take up the whole show with freaking five.
And no one can cheat and just pick one car.
I'm mostly talking to myself.
No one can cheat and just pick one car for five hundred grand.
Yeah, one car.
We'll have one car.
Then you'll have two, you know,
nine, eight, one boxers and call it a day.
And the budget will be blown by two.
Well, so hopefully you've enjoyed the podcast today.
We enjoy doing the podcast probably too much.
This podcast for me has become a great escape
because now I can watch YouTube car videos
guilt free.
And when my daughter looks over my shoulder
trying to bust me for screwing around
and watching car videos,
I rationalized and explained to her
what that is an automotive journalist now.
And so he's just doing his homework.
Now go do your homework and leave me alone
so I can watch more videos.
So thank you.
Thank you for.
She's not listening.
Thank you for continuing to support the channel.
And I'm sorry we didn't get to viewer comments and listens.
There were some fan or I'm sorry comments
and Instagram and questions.
There were some great questions.
I promise you'll get to them.
Matter of fact, we'll get to them first
on next week's podcast.
We are getting such great fan feedback.
It's really wonderful.
And you guys are calling us out
and we say something wrong
and you're giving us information
to make our jib jab better.
I totally and completely love
that you're taking the time to do that.
Message us over on Instagram
that there's something you like,
something you didn't like, whatever, whatever.
Help us make this so that it is
the number one automotive podcast
for obviously our little niche
which is mostly portion sports car fans.
But in the meantime,
thank you for listening to this week's full throttle talk
and thank you guys.
And let's just, if you guys have time,
let's have a five minute meeting.
But in the meantime, have a fantastic week.
We'll talk to you guys next week.
About this episode
A lively discussion unfolds as the hosts dive into various automotive topics, including the latest trends in Porsche models, the impact of electric vehicles on the market, and the significance of manual transmissions. They share personal stories about their favorite watches and cars, while debating the merits of modern versus classic vehicles. The episode also features insights on auction results, with a focus on the value of unique Porsches and the implications of upcoming lease returns on market prices. The camaraderie and banter among the hosts make for an engaging listen.
This week on Full Throttle Talk, the crew goes off the rails (again) and nothing is safe:
This week in cars: Tim brags about finishing 2nd at Mid-Ohio…on his racing SIM (doesn’t count). Dave is still tinkering with his “Black Betty” science project. Casey drove a Ferrari 550 and flexed about meeting Alwin Springer. Paul? He’s still triggered about fake sports cars with Apple CarPlay.
Automotive insanity: Is Porsche about to unleash 47 new “special editions” just to squeeze the fanboys? GT3 Cabrio, GT2 Touring, 1,000-hp Turbo Hybrid, $8k decals — have they completely lost the plot?
Auction meltdowns: From purple-wheeled GT3RSs selling for $428k to “Emory-wannabe” 356s, we break down what’s hot, what’s cold, and what was flat-out robbery.
This, That, or The Other: You only get ONE car under $250k for the rest of your life. The choices spark a cage match and more than a little trash talk.
Listener Q: 996 vs. C8 Z06 — who wins, who cries, and who gets roasted for their pick.
And somewhere in the chaos, we actually stumble onto a few smart takes about trends, values, and why Porsche might be trying to out-Ferrari Ferrari with its “tailor-made” obsession.
It’s salty, it’s loud, and it’s packed with car nerd nonsense — in other words, a classic Full Throttle Talk episode.
Connect with us:
Paul Kramer: 714-335-4911 | [email protected]
Casey Parkin: [email protected]
David Van Epps: 704-799-7680 | [email protected] | IG & FB: @sonderwerks
Tim Harris: 512-758-0206 (text only) | [email protected]