Porsche Has Lost Its Mind, Auction Meltdowns & The $250K Dream-Car Cage Match

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where force power meets conversation.

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Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

Welcome back.

This is Tim Harris.

I'm here with my friend Dave, Casey, and Paul, and we have a absolutely phenomenal

full throttle talk podcast ready for you to go.

We've been working all of this for the better part of a week.

We've updated our spreadsheet.

We've got a lot of great stories, and frankly, a lot of fun things to share with all of you.

These guys decided that they wanted to start out today's show by a new segment

called What Watch Are You Wearing, which wasn't my idea, but Dave, you go first.

What watch are you wearing?

I am wearing a, let's see if I can get this on.

This is a Seiko mod in a turtle case.

It's called a skeleton watch because it doesn't have a face.

Friend of mine, Matt Green, did this mod for me.

So it's got the orange outer and a blue set of hands here, but you can see all the

dates on the inside of it.

It's really kind of cool watch, and I just let it look cool, not terribly expensive,

but a wine watch with the Seiko movement.

So that's me for today.

That's awesome.

Casey?

Because I know that Paul and Jay Ryan have been putting up a lot of content

together regarding Paul's recovery.

I decided today was a good day to wear my Sheffield Crooked Speed Yellow watch

that all the proceeds went towards multiple sclerosis a while ago.

So always loved it.

Every time I drive a Speed Yellow car, I always think of this watch.

Wow.

Casey is really going to show all of us up.

Go ahead, Paul.

Good luck.

No, thank you, Casey.

And as for his wife, Nicole, passed away almost exactly a year ago.

So long story, but short, this is a Y-swatch.

My friend, I always remember his wife's name, Whitney.

He used to be in Los Angeles, handmade watches.

Whitney now is in Tennessee.

I don't know if you could see that.

Cameron.

Cameron Weiss, yes.

And it's a pink watch.

I had a gift certificate I found that had been sitting in my drawer for two years from my

wife for 500 bucks, which 500 bucks won't buy you anything there, but a bunch of straps.

And so I just vowed that the next watch that popped up that was a new limited edition,

regardless of whether I wanted it or not, I would buy it.

And it was titanium, kind of a smaller watch, and it was pink, kind of a coral color.

And I have worn this every day through the whole cancer treatment.

So it was my cancer watch.

Do you guys buy, so I'm wearing a vintage Rolex Daytona, of course.

Would you guys?

So, so fruity.

I know, dude.

I know.

I know you're in a salty old mood today, I can tell, but do you guys buy watches

to celebrate like events or milestones or just, yeah.

So, I mean, and do you try to, like, how brand focused or conscientious are you?

Or are you just buy what you like?

I am the most spastic buyer.

I have over 60 watches, unlike cars.

And one day I'll show you the watch case.

My dad's a woodmaker and made the most beautiful watch case.

I'll, I'll send some pictures to you, Tim.

And it is funny when we started at 10 years ago, we thought like 50 spots

would be enough and I've overfilled it.

But I just, if I see something I like, I start nerding out and doing

a deep dive on it, which means I'm ultimately going to end up with one.

I would say 90 percent of my watches are vintage watches.

And if they're new watches, they're like this Weiswatch.

They're kind of weird.

They're a little different.

And yeah, they'll be to celebrate something.

I mean, I'm at the point now that it has to be something really unique.

I don't think I have a watch.

I don't think I've spent some of them gone up in value,

but I don't think I've ever spent more than $3,000 on a watch.

Some of them are worth more, but I've just not into fancy watches.

I mean, to give you an example, the Rolex I have, I have two Rolexes.

One is a eighties, just a date adjust I got in the nineties used at

like a watch store to celebrate, I don't know, marriage, I think the first marriage.

And then the next watch is a 1920 Rolex, which is just a funky old watch.

You know, this is when Rolex was a military watch for World War

and World War One military is like 1918 or whatever it was.

So that's the kind of like Rolex or if I'm, you know, if I had to pick anything,

I really like omegas.

I end up gravitating to omegas a lot.

But yeah, that's my watch story.

Same. Yeah, I'm with you on your selections as well.

Casey, what about you?

Do you buy do you select watches for, you know, milestones or just because

I've only bought two watches ever.

The rest of them I've received as gifts.

The one that I'm wearing, I bought and I bought a my favorite watch.

My favorite watch is a Rolex milgaus.

And a bunch of years ago, I

had a Seiko made to look just like a milgaus kind of.

But I did a but milgaus is a little boring.

It's got a green crystal, which I really liked.

It's got the lightning bolt second hand,

but it's got a cut meteorite dial and it's pretty rad.

And that is the only watch that I have that's basically rated for any sort of water.

So that's any time I go on vacation.

If I'm diving or snorkeling or anything like that, that's the one I take.

And then my if I go out someplace nice, the only other interesting

watch that I have is a Speedmaster, pretty modern one.

It's a Hesolate one because I think if you own a Speedmaster, it has to be a Hesolate one.

Yeah, definitely.

So question for you.

You said you've only bought two watches and the rest were given to you.

So that may be a better question for you since you used to work at the Porsche dealership.

How many buyers did you force to buy one in order for the Porsche to watch

in order for them to get their allocation?

Come on.

That was loaded.

So I think I think only two and it was not.

And we all of my clients, I treated very properly in terms of pricing.

So it was kind of Porsche urged us to consider pairing watches with cars.

And for for what a the wholesale price on one of those watches is is immensely

less than traditional dealer markup.

So it was a win-win for everybody, I believe.

How's that work?

So you said you mentioned wholesale and retail.

I'm just curious now.

We give them whatever we had to buy the watch for.

I mean, it wasn't a profit center for us.

It was basically a checkbox that we had to make.

Me dealers were graded on how many watches they sold.

I have no idea if that's still the case or not.

But I don't know.

Were the internal guts of those Swiss, the Porsche watch?

They're really, I mean, I owned one.

I owned one.

It was a great watch.

Well, that was my next question.

Just really quick of us for, do we all have a Porsche watch?

And we do all have a Speedmaster.

I don't have either.

You don't have a Speedmaster.

No, I have a Speedmaster.

You're a Porsche guy.

Of course, Dave, Casey has one.

I have one.

Oh, the Ferrari guy does not have a Speedmaster.

Okay, we've moved from picking on Dave to Tim.

That's why I can take it.

But what you guys should be thinking about this,

what you should be thinking of it instead is they now know what to

get me for Christmas.

You're one of those ones.

Yes, I was about to say, we're going to have a fake Seiko speed Speedmaster.

No, what's the the Omega swatch one?

Actually, I'd like one.

Yeah, I could do that.

I've got some of those.

I do like those.

I just refuse to go to a store to buy it.

I'm waiting till he can just buy them online and you cannot.

You have to go into a store, which I'm not going to do.

Yeah. All right.

Well, let's move on.

Let's get back to talking about cars.

But there definitely seems to be a, you know, an affinity.

What are the other commonalities amongst, say, portion nerds?

What are the things to pretty much all of them like?

I mean, watches, what else?

Bourbon architecture, architecture, I would say.

Yeah, bourbon.

Yeah, cigars.

So yeah, I don't really do either of those, but architecture.

I like the bourbon.

You know what?

Ferrari guys are into.

Oh, that's true. Yes. Yes.

All right.

I actually have Ferrari stories this week.

I cannot wait to share and I wore.

I don't even know.

I wore my own shoes.

I love it.

I love you.

It just for whatever reason, there seems to be a target floating around.

Bring it makes a show more fun.

All right.

So I'm going to get back to our agenda.

So obviously we're going to try to stick somewhat to our outline.

We usually do it that halfway through.

So the first question is, what did you do in cars this week?

I'll start with Dave.

All right.

So behind me, if you can see and forgive me, I think my connection is a little

lagging here, but this is my personal rally car.

This is a 1980 SC.

She is affectionately known as Black Betty.

And we have been at Sundeworks working on an electric AC system.

I think I might have mentioned this before, but we basically pull out

the main blower underneath the cowl and install a new evaporator

with a high power blower.

And so we've been refitting this new system that we're developing.

It'll come to market here and we're looking for some, you know, installers.

It's not really a great self-installed product.

So you really need to partner somebody, a mechanical tech, someone like that

who can do this installation.

But if I kind of get out of the way here a little bit, you can see

the electric compressor that's there in the smugglers box.

And then above is the new blower.

And that takes place of the fresh air fan that's normally in the car.

And it kind of gets rid of both the fresh air fan and the evaporator blower

that's separate for the AC kind of combines those into one thing.

And then and then we put some condensers in under the fenders

and you get much better performance on electric AC

without taxing horsepower on the car because it's not driven by the belt.

You do have to put in a hundred and seventy five amp alternator.

But yeah, that's what we did this week.

And we're working on installing it here in black Betty so that I can take it

on the rally drive to Lufka cool to all that great stuff with in the comforts

of fine air conditioning.

Well, so we probably won't need it.

The main competitor for this thing is a company in England

that makes a air conditioning system that I've been told if you wanted

to have it installed and I was told this by Rod Emory.

It's twenty five thousand dollars.

So do you have a sense of what your system is going to cost to be installed?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

And and the system certainly for Rod and smaller motors and so on like that.

I'm not even sure what you'd have to do to get it in a three fifty six.

Although we have installed a system in a nine twelve same idea.

Yeah. But that system typically runs around ten thousand to eleven thousand

dollars from the guy in in the UK.

That's pre tariff.

So I'm not sure what's going to happen in tariff land.

It's one of the reasons that we've been working on this

because we're doing it here in the States and ultimately will be the equipment

will be about five thousand dollars for the full system,

which is about twenty five hundred dollars less than the other product

that that's out there on the market.

And then you're probably going to look at three thousand bucks

to install it from most places.

It's about a thirty hour installation start to finish.

And that's the same with the other guy's system, too.

But we'll be a couple thousand dollars under under that system for sure.

Well, so you're telling me all in all in.

And so Dave, you're a little bit laggard on your internet connection

just so you know, but all in you're saying installed an AC system is going

to cost how much around give or take five hundred bucks.

Eight to nine thousand dollars.

OK, that's the bottom line.

And you think you're going to be ready to start

installing these in customers cars when?

Oh, we've already been installing them in customer cars.

So you're obviously getting one, Tim, in your car as well.

So yes, we're we're in down now.

Is that am I getting the full throttle talk discount?

Of course you will be.

Yeah. In other words, it's going to cost twelve thousand for you for me.

Right. But we'll throw in a Porsche watch for your speed.

Oh, boy. Here we go.

All right. Paul is definitely feeling saucy today.

All right. Cool.

So case, by the way, all the contact information for all these guys

is down below in the show description.

So you just go down there and and the cool thing when you're

dealing with Thunderworks is you're dealing with Dave.

He's got a huge business.

But when you call in, it's his voicemail on the phone, his voice

on the phone tree and you click to and you're going to be talking to him.

So he's never he's not hiding behind a bunch of staff, which is always awesome.

So Casey, what did you do in cars this week?

So I would miss last week's podcast.

Sorry about that, gentlemen.

But two weeks ago, I was in Seattle, had an awesome time,

rented a Volkswagen Tows.

I think that's how you pronounce it.

They're small SUV.

It's smaller than a Tiguan.

Pretty great. Didn't see a lot of Porsches in in Seattle.

I think I saw maybe five total.

I only saw two nine elevens, a graphite blue, like 2017 C2 coupe

and an Aero kit nine nine six turbo in some sort of seal gray, which was pretty rad.

Buddy of mine, let me borrow his 550 Porsche five or sorry.

That would have been awesome.

No, Ferrari 550, which was a great drive.

We'll get into that a little bit later when we talk about news,

but I've never driven a front engine gated manual transmission Ferrari.

Certainly interesting, really, really stiff clutch pedal,

kind of like a really early Diablo or Lake Kuntas, if anybody has driven one of those.

But really interesting car, tremendous engine noise, tremendous torque.

We talked a couple of weeks ago about this

nine nine six that I've been getting ready for bring a trailer.

All of the photography was done this past week.

I got about 20, 25 miles on the car, runs great.

Photography turned out great.

Did a whole bunch of videos.

So all that's been submitted and I'm going back and forth with them.

Last night, TPC racing was having a special event

that was kind of put on by the Porsche Club of America and

met Alan Springer, a really great interview talking about the 50 years of

and dial and some of my favorite cars that they've built, including the

Swap Shop 935 and what else?

I sold those new old stock

nine nine seven bucket seats, which I believe went for record price.

I will not share what they went for, but they went for a price

that worked out for everybody.

And yeah, it was pretty awesome to take them out of the box.

You'll see a little video popping up on my Instagram here soon.

What's the point of not sharing the price?

What difference does it make, especially if it was a high price?

Because.

I don't know.

Just don't want to share it was a public right?

It was no, it was it was a private.

I'm listing a set privately or sorry.

I'm listing a set on bring a trailer that I did photography work on

yesterday, but it was about if you look on bring a trailer, it went

for about the highest price or a little bit more than than they went on there.

And Tim, to just to to protect Casey on this, I understand like if you watch

my ads, majority of my cars sell before going on the on a, you know,

broader platform like eBay, whatever.

And I hide the vins and everything because, you know, people always

ask me like, Hey, I see you sold this car four years ago.

What's the price?

Completely irrelevant.

Markets different.

I don't think these receipts, but these receipts, I know, I

agree with you on a car with a VIN number.

You can still go, but you can still go to bring a trailer and you

kind of look at the range.

It's one of the reasons I'm very hesitant about using bring a

trailer because it's just this legacy price, which does become

an anchor in the future.

I have an issue with that.

And sure enough, if you look at it, I would say on average cars

that have sold previously, even if it was a different market, I would

say are anchored a little bit and tethered by that previous price.

And it's just human nature.

No one wants to be duped, even though the market would support it.

So I appreciate the prices are on there for bring a trailer.

You know, bring a trailer to me is one of the most useful tools

as a car dealer, but there's some negative parts to it.

Anyway, that that was from a marketing perspective.

Here's the thing, it just, you know, just to say why I ask is

because if you set a world record in selling something and the buyer

and it's going to be anonymous with the virus because there's no

VIN number for it.

Chances are there's other people that those are to have those things

sitting in their addicts in place in the world.

And if they know Casey Park and can set a world record for selling,

you know, obscure seats in a box, you're going to get more, you

know, potential, I would say, lots that way.

That's that was my reasoning of asking.

Yeah, no, no, not wrong.

Not wrong.

I was just trying to help 30 30 $30,000, Tim.

There you go.

That's we wore him down.

We wore him down.

He came up that is outstanding.

Yeah, but but but you know what that doesn't surprise me at all

because what are the freaking I mean, they're they're awesome.

Yeah, there's never there's never been a set sold publicly that

we're literally in the box.

Yeah.

And also, here's the thing is when you're on bring a trailer,

it's a little bit of Russian roulette for the most part.

There's always that little bit of like, what am I going to get?

But if you're doing private party and you're doing a

transaction with someone like Casey, you already know him.

You've done business deals.

Totally.

It's just and those kind of clients will pay a premium to

take the guesswork out.

Totally have the chance of opening a box and going, what the hell?

Well, it's always worth it.

You pay, yeah, Casey out of curiosity.

You know what the buyer is doing at the seats.

I don't know.

Yeah, he's going to make a gaming console out of them.

Probably.

No, like the other set that I photographed yesterday,

it's too long of a story to tell you here.

But long and short of it is they were in a Cayman

R that I sold brand new in 2011 to replace the seats that

went to another Cayman R that I also sold brand new in 2011.

So the story is good.

But if you look at the photography on the seats online,

like I'm an over disclose kind of guy because I've looked

and received so many cars from bring a trailer that were

not disclosed correctly.

So I made a video showing condition.

I didn't see a single video on any bring a trailer

listing showing the condition of the seats, only photographs

showing black carbon fiber, which is incredibly hard

to show issues with.

Did you run?

Did you run the DME on it and do a borse car test?

Well, I did.

I did a paint.

I did paint depth on all of it to make sure they were good.

And I also got an electric air conditioning system for eight

thousand dollars.

Sweet. Excellent.

I'm stoked on that, Dave.

That's a great idea.

Yeah, totally.

Hey, I think it's going to be great.

So what would you do?

Would you do in cars this week?

I didn't do a lot.

I got out of the hospital, which is a big deal, and I got to go

on the four or five freeway, which never normally is shitty,

but was so sweet.

But my friend Jay Ryan did something really interesting

and him and I had a lot of deep conversations about.

You can find Jay on Instagram Porsche Life 911.

And as Casey mentioned before, huge, huge, huge part

of my recovery.

So and I met these guys before right around.

Lufth, Lufth at what you might call it,

University Studios.

The name of their company, excuse me,

if I produce or pronounce it wrong,

Ruhl Sport Wagon Bau.

They're a German company.

And what they are doing is taking 997.2s

and they are backdating them and they are US legal.

You start with a US legal car and it would pass

to missions supposedly, et cetera.

So if it wasn't for my friend Jay,

actually getting to test drive on, if you go to his Instagram,

Porsche Life 911, he has a good review of them.

He went with Byron Bowers, well-known comedian

and they fell in love with the car.

They said it drove great.

Now I posted a little thing.

This seems to me, and in case you'll probably agree,

it's sacrilegious because they're taking 997.

They are shortening the wheelbase to a three inches

to an air-cooled car, which makes it handle different

and handle like an air-cool.

They're, if you go, if you go to their website,

they don't get deep into it, but they show.

And we did a bunch of measurements online,

just checking like the sizes.

My argument was, why not do a 996?

There's plenty of them.

And their argument was, well, the 997.2 has a better engine.

But if you read through their stuff,

they're rebuilding the engine to a four, up to a four one.

I mean, I can almost understand

if you didn't want the engine rebuild,

but these are $400,000 cars.

And they're rebuilding the engine anyway.

The 996 and 997.2, same chassis, same dimensions.

So they're cutting it up.

That was my biggest thing.

This was a prototype.

I couldn't find any good interior pictures.

I was frustrated because I think everyone thinks

they're a designer and the reality is they're not.

And when I looked at this interior,

there was two big misses in my opinion.

You can't really see it.

The dash has the old school mid-70s vents,

which are stupid.

Just go put real vents in.

They left the whole 997.2 center console in,

which is not interesting.

Take that out if you're gonna backdate.

And they had this stock 997 base seats in there.

They just put inserts.

But the worst part is they went through all this length

to put the Sport Chrono back in,

which is one of the ugliest things of the 997.

I mean, if you notice it, Porsche won't admit

that the Sport Chrono is ugly.

So what they've done is over the years,

they've shallowed it, shaved it, shallowed it,

made it smaller, smaller till it's almost disappearing.

It's sort of like Porsche's way of saying,

yeah, we fucked that up, but we're not gonna admit it

and remove it, we'll just keep making it smaller

till it fades away.

I trust Jay, he's driven my car.

I've driven his.

We've shared a lot of the same cars.

He says it drives phenomenal.

I believe him.

My biggest issue is why do that with a 997.2?

All right, so first of all, I want to say,

you guys have finally met the real Paul Kramer.

This is what Paul is normally like,

salty and full of opinion.

And so I want to welcome Paul back.

This is the Paul we had in January and February.

Thank you, good to be back.

So when you're making nasty comments on Instagram,

this guy, well, but I mean,

who's going to argue with you on those points?

But I am curious though, and you know,

not that curious, but somewhat curious,

how does that even spread sheet out?

How can they do all that work to a car

and charge 400 grand for it?

And seems to me like they'll lose money on every one

of those cars considering labor rates and whatnot.

But that aside.

Yeah, and then the big question is,

do we need another back date kind of singer-esque thing

in our life?

And you know, like when singers started doing this,

he was doing, I remember talking to Rob Dickinson

and he was first doing some, you know, G50 Carreras

and he realized from a chassis and component-wise,

it just didn't make sense.

So I remember, he's like, I'm moving to 964s.

I remember telling him, like, that's a great idea.

There's 30 grand.

You can get them all day long, and those are the good ones.

You know, who knew that 964s would be, you know, unicorns?

He's starting with something

that we already know is a unicorn.

That's my issue.

And I keep looking at, like,

if you're going to rebuild the motor, just do a 996.

All the body works different.

You're cutting the chassis.

You could take a 36 and build it into a 38

or you could do anything.

You know, at 400 grand,

I had another 100 grand and make a better motor.

What's up, Case?

I think the reason why they picked 997 too

is because even with 996 and 997,

it still worries people about the inherent issues

with M96 and M97 motors regardless of what people,

I mean, the internet has scared people so dramatically

about what could possibly happen with those cars

and all of that is corrected in 997 second gen.

But look at a guy like Raby,

Jack Raby who's taking 997 motors

and building them and sleeving them

and doing all the cool shit to them.

And those motors go for good money.

And those are M97s.

He's building all the, you know,

vision motor sports, building race cars.

They're all using M97s.

You know, they just had a flaw

with the way they cast the case.

And if you, and those, you know,

no Nicosil liners or whatever,

and they correct that.

And now they're, you know,

those motors are easily making

400 wheel horsepower or more.

I mean, I agree.

The car that I'm listening on bring a trailer

has a 3.8 liter track performer motor in it

from a flat six innovations or whatever.

So I know it, I drove it.

I wanted to talk to you, I guess offline later

because you asked me my opinions on driving it,

but long and short of it is it feels like a 997.

I mean, it makes 290 to the ground.

It's really strong.

But in that, in a three point,

that out of a 3.4 liter 996

just made a wonderful thing.

But to piggyback on this, Paul,

this was the car, we didn't get to it

in the last podcast that it was on,

but that was this rule sport wagon or whatever

was the thing that I was most interested

seeing at Monterey

because I wanted to see what they were gonna do to the car.

I don't like cutting up 997s.

I'm tired of Resto mod kind of cars as well

because they all, they seem to keep coming out.

But I mean, sure, do it to an air cooled car.

That's fine.

But I mean, I like the idea of the 997 drive line

in the car and being an old car,

but literally cutting a car and, you know,

sectioning it, pulling three inches out.

I think it's not for me,

but I mean, I don't wanna step on their market.

They'll sell some of them, I guarantee it

because-

How many are they trying to sell?

Do you know?

I don't know.

400 grand's a lot for what I saw

and it's also, like you said, Tim,

how are they gonna make money?

They're gonna get squeezed

and then if you get up to 600,000,

I could think of a lot of other cars

that buyer's looking at.

And they're built in Stuttgart, I believe, correct?

Yep.

Wow.

That's crazy.

So they have German labor rates

and they think they're gonna be able

to retell those in the United States at 400.

And they're taking a US car, sending it over there,

doing their thing and sending it back.

Which I have no tariff.

Okay, so be no tariff.

But it'll also, you know,

the good news is it will be California compliant,

whatever, but I don't know.

I don't know either.

I think you sectioned that car though.

How would you section that car?

Where would you cut it?

I have no idea.

If you go to their website, it's kind of slick.

It shows like we had modified the chassis

and it's very vague.

I asked Jay and they said, you know,

we basically deducted that,

that basically the 993 is three inches shorter,

wheelbase.

That's really the fundamental difference.

Overhangs are different.

That doesn't really matter.

But what matters is what's in the wheelbase

and to, cause I, cause I kept asking Jay originally,

like, how is this drive so special?

He has a 997.1 that he's sort of made into a,

you know, early Quarity or a GT3 Lite

or whatever you want to call it.

And I'm like, how is this different than 997?

He's like, oh, they shorten the wheelbase.

And I'm like, okay.

And I was, and he really genuinely liked it.

So I think they built something very, very nice.

My question is,

I think you could do the same with something else

that's more ubiquitous and ready.

And, you know, think how many $20,000 996s are out there

that you could just hack up,

go build a cool motor, whatever, I don't know.

You know, they are.

They can take a bigger lift on the interior though

on those, like the interior,

although it does look like in the one picture

you just showed Paul that they've,

you know, they've gone back and did something.

I don't know if that,

that's literally an old school dash or not.

It looks like an old school dash.

They then sort of reverse circumcised on the,

the, whatever, the sport clock cyclops thing,

which I think is one of the ugliest elements of 997.

And they put on like a Momo prototipo,

which to me is kind of like.

Do you say reverse circumcised?

That's what they do.

Yeah.

Reverse circumcised.

That's a new one.

I'm going to write that one down.

Yeah.

I got a sport classic radio in there.

Sport classic radio, pretty easy.

But like, you know, the big thing is like the 997 console,

just take that out.

Like, here's your opportunity to take that out.

And there's so many great seats for Man's Shield

and Recaro that you could plop in there with it versus

just taking not even sports seats,

but base seats and putting this pattern in.

Now, granted, this was a test meal.

So maybe I'm wrong.

I have a suggestion for the maker of this car.

Send it to Sunderworks.

That guy does kick ass interiors.

This crazy guy named Dave Vinnab.

So there's your suggestion.

Yeah, there you go.

All right, so let's move on.

I think it's a cool car, man.

I would buy one of those.

I think that's a cool car.

I mean, I'm contrary.

I think the 997's a good choice for that thing.

And I would absolutely buy one of those.

What did I do in cars this week?

I just prepared for today's podcast mostly,

trying to keep, you know, hurting the cats.

That's basically where I spent most of my time

in cars this week, exactly.

I did add something to the spreadsheet.

I don't know if you guys saw it.

But you know what, we'll hold off on it.

See you guys added some stuff.

But you know, I want to scroll down to this section

where I was adding in just general observations

about what's going on with Porsche.

And again, I told you guys prior to hitting record today

that I'd spent some time listening to other people's

opinions on car week and just talking,

just kind of gathering my thoughts

because it wasn't my favorite car week.

And trying to figure out what's the vibe shift

as my 11-year-old calls it.

And I think I kind of nailed it.

So the question, this is an open question.

Do you guys, is this something we should chase?

Do you see the open question?

I mean, basically what I wrote is,

has the world gone insane?

Is Porsche about to go bonkers on special editions

and model variations?

The internet seems to think so as to all the leaks,

expected new 911 models.

And I did the original opinion on the next one

has changed by most of the people

that seem to be good predictors of what Porsche is

going to come out with.

But it does appear there is going to be a GT3 cab.

It does appear there.

What do they call it?

GT3 SC?

Yeah, that's what I said on the Chris Harris podcast.

Yeah, right.

Okay.

So then you also have the speedster

that's inevitably coming out,

which is coming out a little bit early.

And I think I may have linked you guys

a couple of the things I watched.

Of course, there's the GT2.

And now I'm hearing that there's going to be a GT2

touring, which, okay.

Then there's the GT2 RS.

911 Turbo Hybrid, basically.

And 911 Turbo Hybrid with a manual,

which was the special 911 Turbo rear-wheel drive

with a manual transmission.

It's one classic.

Thank you, sir.

And so they're going to be doing a non-special edition

version of that.

And then there's now believed to be a slant nose

that's coming out.

So lots of these are special additions.

In addition to that, I'm sure you guys

know about the delivery, the decal sets

that they're now selling for $8,000.

So where's all this go?

With new special additions coming out so frequently

with all these going to be, the thesis is

there's going to do limited runs of these cars.

There's no more VIP program.

They're going to say it's going to,

they're going to do numbered series of cars

after numbered series of cars.

Frankly, it reminds me of Chrysler in the 1980s.

Discuss.

Well, I don't think.

What I think it is, is this is a reaction to tariffs.

I mean, the big market where Porsche makes their money

is everything with four doors.

More specifically, McCons and Cayennes,

maybe Panameras, maybe Taycons.

But for all intents and purposes,

I think they're freaking out because they're

between China, tariffs, everything else.

I think they are feeling like they're going to get screwed

and they're not going to make the margins.

They're a public company and they'll go,

where do we make money?

What will people buy no matter what we throw at them?

We can put a sticker on it.

We can make it a limited edition.

I mean, even before all this,

they had so many variations of the 911

and you look back, it used to be T, E and S

and then they're like, screw it,

we're just going to have an SC for five years.

And then for another seven years,

we're going to have a Carrera.

Oh, and then you can have nine, six, four, two and four.

And all of a sudden by 1819,

they had 19 versions of the same car.

And they go, you know what?

Let's see how narrow we can cut that pie.

Because in Tim, you know,

all of these stupid little variations, they will sell.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, they will sell the dealers are frothing

because they're going to ADM the fuck out of them

and they're going to get excited about them.

Now, regarding the $8,000 vinyl package,

my friend Torsten Klein, he designed all those.

Whether you like them on a car or not, it's vinyl,

take it off is $8,000, a lot to charge for it.

I don't know.

What would Ferrari charge for the same stuff?

Three times?

30.

Yeah.

Right. And painted though.

That'd be the only difference.

It'd be 30.

Yeah.

But let's just do a poll.

Okay.

How many, you guys have all seen these liveries.

The one, I think they're coming out with three.

The one we've seen images of is

for what race team remind me.

There was an Ando, there's an Ando one,

which I think is great.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yep.

But would you guys go with,

if you were ordering a new Porsche for $8,000

and I'm just going to choose and just, you know,

raise your hand if you choose that, the Andiol livery.

With an exception, that car would be going to Sunderwunsch

and it would get more Andiol specific.

I would look back at Andiol's race history

and the things that they did in the cars

and I would try to put elements of that in the cars

so that it made sense with delivery.

You know, it was really deep end.

So it was really deep end.

Yeah.

Exactly.

I got one of those, I'll show you.

That'd be awesome.

I bet you very few people will be willing

to spend the extra money.

I bet you the dealers will spec them for the cars

that they're going to try to, you know, charge ADM on.

But I bet you long term because the price

and probably scarcity cars with the, you know,

liveries are going to sell.

They're going to probably show that the market likes it.

So let me ask you a different question to that thing.

So when the 918 was really the origin story

of delivery, remember the 19 program?

So Torsten, my friend Torsten did all those liveries.

They were hand applied, et cetera, hand designed.

They could be a little bit different,

but also what he did for each one,

because they weren't really ordered a lot,

was they got a hand drawing from him.

That's awesome.

So I'm wondering if that might happen with these things,

especially if you do a Sunday,

would you get like a special little, you know,

and I think what would be really cool is, yes, it's vinyl.

You know, what if they limited it?

You know, 30 vinyl edition.

Exactly.

Well, that's a portion needs to do.

I mean, honestly, and I put this in my notes too,

you guys have probably scanned it,

but they're, they should copy what Ferrari's doing.

Cause Ferrari has absolutely built the model around selling,

you know, they call it whatever the hell

you want to call it.

There's different versions.

There's tailor made.

There's just all these different things.

That's what you should,

what Ferrari should be leaning or portion should be

leaning into, but at the same time,

a base, bod standard 911 992 with very few options.

But I mean, in light of all these really expensive variants

is looking really appealing at this point.

You know, and that car, like I said,

I was blown away by my 80,000 mile Toro rental head.

So if somebody listens to the show,

had that exact same rental,

he ran it too when he was in California, you know.

So, but I was really impressed with that car truthfully.

And now that was an S, but I don't know.

I mean, it's interesting to see what direction

the market goes, but let me ask you guys this question.

And this is something again,

I'm still working through myself

cause I don't quite understand how the markets change.

We talked about this before we hit record too.

So just go back in time, like a half hour.

The 993, I'm sorry, the 992 GT3 RS

seems to be attracting,

Dave aside and true enthusiasts aside,

people are gonna track it.

People that are just buying the things

to match their shoes, to match their purses,

to go to cars and coffee.

There's a lot of ladies buying them,

which I honestly, I'm shocked by.

I think it's great.

So the market is changing, the buyer is changing.

The focus going forward is going to be perhaps

that the Porsche brand and especially the more winged ones

are gonna be the aspirational, you know, flex brand.

What do you guys think about that?

Again, totally different market.

We've discussed this.

Is it the bargain car?

I mean, compared to the other stuff.

So, you know, is it a McLaren and a Ferrari

or a Lamborghini gonna be that much more expensive?

And this becomes the entry point.

It's the low price leader in the, you know,

in the $300,000.

Well, but that's a problem.

Like Tim posted the other day with that Ferrari,

the ADM on them and the market,

even the used market, they're the same price.

You know, they're choosing that car.

Now Porsche, I gotta believe is delighted

because any chance to find a new audience, you know,

maybe they've finally attracted Lamborghini owners

and McLaren owners to owning these cars.

But at the end of the day, you know, us purists were like,

we don't want those people, but Porsche is like,

we don't care who the people are as we wanna make money.

And if we can attract, you know, a bunch of new buyers

that will valid, that will gladly pay

instead of $300,000 MSRP, $450,000 MSRP

for the next GT3 RS or whatever,

because it seems that's what they're used to, then great.

Now we've already moved up market.

Well, you're talking about the Insta that I posted

when we were on Ocean Drive in Carmel by the sea

and it was a gorgeous, probably original,

it was an 812 GTS, which is a spider.

I'm guessing based on what I remember about it,

probably had a, you know,

the original owner probably paid $6,500,000 for it.

And behind it was a GT3 RS, Whiteworth Green.

And I'm telling you the GT3 RS,

now it was the, the Whiteworth Green cars

I think you're selling for 400 to 450.

And the Ferrari now is selling

for probably about the same price.

And between the two cars,

and they're both, you know, right on the main drag,

all these kids taking pictures and whatnot,

the Porsche was getting way more attention.

And I think Dave, what Dave,

I hadn't even considered what you said.

I think you're right.

I think that's the truth.

It's basically gonna be seen, or it is for now,

the entry level sort of,

but again, Casey, you might,

I think I shared this link

because I don't wanna take credit for this,

but it was a really good observation,

somebody on another podcast said,

you know, if you see a 918,

if the average human sees a 918 roll by,

they don't really look at it.

But if they see a GT3 RS roll by,

especially if this guy, right?

I mean, they're gonna think the winged up,

darted up, tacked up, loud, blah, blah, blah car

is the more special car.

And to the person buying those cars now,

that is probably 50% of the reason they buy it

is because they want the attention.

Am I wrong or am I right?

And that is totally different for Porsche

in this type of product, in my opinion.

I mean, we've talked about it a lot.

And I do believe that, I mean,

from what I saw regarding Car Week

and from what you conveyed to us,

it's a lot of younger people with a lot of money.

Those people, I believe, gravitate towards style.

They gravitate towards the fact

that when I went to the Andial thing last night,

they talked about how, I mean,

Alwyn was wearing one of the Andial t-shirts

that has now been licensed by Porsche.

So they have Andial shoes, they have Andial hats,

they have Andial key chains,

you know, they're selling all these things.

And now they're selling an Andial livery on GT3s.

I do believe that Porsche is working

towards becoming a fashion brand.

And I think the GT3 RS with their marketing

of using, you know, people like Dua Lipa

for her own special edition version of the car.

And they're reaching out to that younger generation

with money that like these things

to really gain a focus and gain a momentum with those people.

And I do believe these people

that are looking at these cars now

are more forward thinking than backward thinking.

I mean, if you think about it,

the 918 is 10 years old.

So a 25 year old or a 30 year old person

would have been 20 years old back then.

Who knows if they were even thinking

about 918s back then.

But I do believe that the way that Porsche's

the younger generation is always looking

for the newest, latest and greatest.

It's like when people line up to get special sneakers

at sneaker stores or those kinds of things,

Paul's probably got a bunch of special sneakers

knowing him, especially where he lives.

But like that, I believe that it's really

becoming more fashion and style

than it is necessarily for performance and lap times.

And I mean, we've talked about it before.

I don't think it's anything new.

Well, I hope it, you know, again,

in case you'll know more about this than I do.

But the parts transfers between a special GT3 RS

and a GT3 race car, right?

They're literally the same part numbers.

I've seen people put cars up on lifts

and literally the same part numbers,

control arms all the way from stem to stern.

The car is virtually the same.

You do that to a Ferrari.

You do that to a Speciale,

a 458 Speciale versus the race car version

or certainly the 296 Speciale

versus the ones at the Challenge cars.

They don't have hardly any shared parts.

So I'm fearful that Porsche is gonna say,

why the hell are we spending,

putting so much really high-end content in these cars

if people are just buying these for the flash?

Why don't we just start selling them more decals

and selling them more colored fricking carbon fiber

and all that other stuff?

I hear you.

I hear you, but I really think that

at the end of the day,

it comes down to Nurburgring lap times.

And if you can't put up a solid lap time,

to say that you're better than everybody else,

I don't think they've gotten to the point

where they have not made that

the forefront of their attention.

Except for Ferrari doesn't play that game

and they don't have a fast.

They're not in the top 10.

I don't even think they have a car in the top 20

at Nurburgring.

Oh, and by the way, and thank you for reminding me,

I believe Corvette has,

is three cars in the top 10 for production cars.

And I know you love Corvette.

So I thought I'd mention that.

I do.

Actually, I came across the Facebook memory

the other day I sent to my dad

of us driving the Corvettes at Carlyle

and his 60 Corvette and made me smile.

I think my quote underneath of it was,

who needs a Porsche when you're going into Carlyle

with your dad and his 60 Corvette?

So I do like certain Corvettes, just not the new ones.

Yeah, got it.

Well, now let's make fun of Paul

since he's got his mic muted.

You know, this is a value question.

I have this for you guys.

If I give you an example here.

So I had a friend of mine that wanted to get

a new Ferrari F80 and those cars right now

are supposedly trading hands for,

you know, 4 million, 6 million.

I don't even know what the number is,

but he wanted to get one.

The dealer, my dealer, I know two dealer owners,

store owners, and they both told me

to tell him the same thing.

He's got to buy every special edition high-end car

by Ferrari, starting at the 288 GTO, ideally.

The Enzo, LaFerrari, F50, F40, all of them.

He has to buy all those cars.

That's 25 or 30 million.

Then he has to have at least one example

of the current models in his possession as garage

for a Sangue, you know, all the others.

And then he has to participate

in a Ferrari Cliente program

or do something with racing

and probably also buy a race car

before he's even going to be considered.

And so I called him up thinking

he was just going to say,

joke, I won't do it.

And what he told me was,

he said, okay, help me put it together.

And I wonder, and so that must be what's happening

in Ferrari world that's making Ferrari so bold

that the owners are willing,

they raise the bar or raise the bar, raise the bar

and the owners are going like, yeah, let's go, let's go.

You know?

And that is probably going to happen

in the Porsche world too,

which getting to my value question

and makes me wonder if these cars

that we think are like full retail

at 2016 9-11 are 2019 speeds

during all these other things.

Whether those cars are actually going to seem kind of cheap

as Porsche starts to play the Ferrari game.

What do you think, Dave?

I think for sure.

I mean, and they will be relative to what Ferrari's doing,

but I do think that as these other cars

keep coming up in price,

it's going to bring up all these other special cars as well.

You know, the cars you just referenced him.

So I do believe that everything is going to just keep

going up and up and up,

especially as the amount of these cars go down

in terms of production and so on and so on.

Yeah, I'm definitely able to believe that this thing is,

these prices are going up.

It's going to lift everything.

And I'm not a fan of the livery stuff in the least.

And for lots of reasons, the most, you know,

liveries don't last forever.

That's for sure too.

If you start ripping that stuff off,

what are you doing to the paint underneath that car?

Where is this car going to be stored?

If that thing is a super collectible,

you know, vinyl does not last forever.

That's for sure.

Bades, yeah for sure.

I don't like that.

Yeah, and especially if they put it on

if the paint isn't fully cured,

but I know there's lots of techniques.

But still, when you take off PPF,

that's old PPF on cars, you can take paint up.

It's not, that's kind of common, honestly.

Absolutely.

Especially on Ferraris.

Yeah, no, true story.

Yep.

Yeah, for sure.

So moving, that's a good question.

So what are the warrant,

what are the PPF manufacturers suggest

and how long you should leave it on the car

before you take it off and replace it?

Is there a timeline on that?

It had to be up to 3M.

Porsche uses 3M materials for all of their liveries.

I know, but there is a difference

between vinyl and paint protection film as well, right?

So that's why some of the paint protection film guys

have started to do colored paint protection film

because it is easier to come on and off the car.

It's not as the adhesives and stuff are different

in terms of their makeup.

I wouldn't want to be leaving vinyl on a car

more than two or three years, probably.

Again, depending on how it's stored

and everything else.

And Casey, the image you have behind you,

I mean, a race car is one thing.

That stuff comes on and off and on and off

and they're changing it all the time.

But boy, if you ever tried to take old vinyl

and we have off 993s, it is a bear

and it ruins the paint underneath.

If you've had it on there for 10 years

or something like that,

you can absolutely expect a paint job.

I almost guarantee it.

Even if you don't take the paint up,

you can't get the fade differences to,

you can't wet sand it out, it's just ruined.

Yeah.

Plus the car, the paint is faded underneath

and the vinyl isn't faded and it's protected the paint.

And I mean, putting vinyl on a car

for a long period of time is a problem for sure.

I definitely am not a big vinyl guy

on full wraps and things like that.

I mean, the only experience I have

with long-term vinyl application,

reapplication is my client with the four liter,

the top surface vinyl, it was weird.

It kind of, it was definitely degrading.

So the kind folks at Goudon, Porsche

were able to source me fresh vinyl from Germany.

And we put that on and I saw the,

I mean, the car's white of course,

so you can't really tell for color degradation,

but it came off and went back on fine

and that car was, I mean, it's garage,

for sure in climate control and it wasn't a lot,

but maybe, I mean, a lot of these GT3,

I mean, how many people street park GT3s

or park them in the sun or those sorts of things?

A lot of people will ceramic coat them

so they've got the UV rejection or whatever.

I mean, I'm not a detailer, so I can't comment,

but I mean, I hear what you say.

Why would you ceramic coat a car

and then put PPF over it?

Explain that.

Well, I don't, normally you put,

normally you put ceramic coating over top of PPF

because if you put ceramic coating down,

most times things won't stick to it.

So I'll just say, I'll use real words,

I think it's a scam and it's been going on a long time

and a lot of people will pay too much

putting down ceramic coat

and then their detailer or their installer says,

you have to put ceramic coat and then you put down,

he's back.

I know what he just did gross.

Feeling fresh, feeling fresh and lovely.

And then you, he washed his hands

and then you put down the PPF over it.

There's no reason to do it.

I'll tell you guys a little funny,

if you get a new Ferrari dear listener or dear viewer

and you see the little and you see the inevitable

paint defects in the car,

the best thing for you to do psychologically

is not worry about getting the paint defects fixed

because you won't just put some PPF over it

and they'll all go away

because all new, all new Ferris in particular,

I don't know why,

but they always have the nastiest ass swirl marks.

I don't know if it happens at the port.

I don't know if it happens over in Italy

and someone just says the dealership will fix it

and then you can see these, you know, it's crazy.

Throw some PPF on it.

You'll never remember that they were there.

There you go.

You wonder why the paint comes off

when they remove the clear bra on the future.

Now the sanding marks underneath of clear coat,

I've seen it all on Ferraris.

No, that's a good point too, dude, because you're right.

There's no way that paint's gonna adhere correctly

if there's fricking sanding marks.

Yeah, me too.

We had a new piece to deliver it, all right?

And I'm looking it over

and I used to be a car detailer at a car detail shop.

And I went, I found not on,

so they paint the stripe over the ridge

and we did Rosa Corsa with the, you know,

the white and blue stripe.

Of course, yes, Paul, I made fun of myself.

And on the nose of the car and the tail of the car,

you could see the, you guys know what a DA Sander is?

I know Dave does.

You could actually see the fricking DA Sander marks

underneath the blue and white stripe.

And I'm standing there with this general more,

this is an Austin, the general manager of the store

and he's like, ah, it's Ferrari.

What the hell are you gonna do about it?

You're gonna do nothing about it.

You're not gonna get him to fix it.

Yeah, somebody else will buy that car.

Well, you know what you do is you put PPF on it

and you forget it's there

or get a PPF before you even see it

and then it's all good, clear conscious.

That's the move, that's the Ferrari.

That's advanced player mode for Ferrari buyers.

So anything in the automotive news segment here

that caught your guys' attention,

anything you guys would like to talk about?

Yeah, sure.

I mean, for me, the biggest thing,

close friend in the automotive world,

Rod Emery's dad, Gary Emery, sadly passed away.

I think unexpectedly passed away.

I think it was on Wednesday.

I've known Gary since the late 90s.

You know, when I had my replica spider,

he had parts obsolete.

He was just, I think, leaving Costa Mesa heading to Oregon

and he, you know, I pastored him

and then even when he was up in Oregon,

I got my first 911T in 2001

and I was dealing with seats.

And if you've ever met Gary

or you've ever seen him at like,

he was at Airwater recently, Casey.

He always has a crowd around him

because Gary loves to tell a story.

You know, like I will tell a story

and you will be captive until you're bored to death

but Gary will go beyond that.

And really neat person.

Rod posted something.

His dad passed away in his arms.

I saw that.

Through the sources and people I know,

this is just speculation.

I think he went out, you never,

it's always too soon.

I mean, he was probably in his late 70s,

spunky, healthy guy going to Glamis

and, you know, Pismo

and doing all the other off-road stuff with Rod.

I mean, he's just a hot rodder through and through.

This was sort of his iconic car.

It was at Airwater.

It's been at a bunch of loof cults.

I think on the top it says something turned me over

because it did flip over at one point in a race

and they, you know, re-put it back together.

At one point, I thought they were gonna do

one of the Pegasus upside down just to make it work right

but yeah, Gary's a cool dude.

And, you know, he went out,

I think quickly, possibly heart attack, health, immediate.

It wasn't like a long drawn out thing.

But, you know, he, and by the way,

this photo is taken by my good friend, Randy Wells.

He did a piece for Panorama years ago on him

if you get a chance to see it.

But, you know, rest of peace, Gary, good guy.

Yeah, God bless you, sir, definitely.

How about you, Dave?

Anything in the news that catch your eye?

I mean, I was just looking

because we'd talked about some of these cars

that were going away and I saw a story

about all the models, the stands, you know,

some SUVs and so on that are effectively

going by the wayside for 25.

So there's cars that are just no longer

gonna be around anymore, including, you know,

Acura's killing the TLX,

Audi kills the A4 after this year as well.

Yeah, I'm bummed about that.

Yeah, but what I read suggests

that they're just doing some kind of reorientation

of the numbering or something along that.

They're also getting rid of the Q8.

I'm just scanning through.

I won't dwell on this too long

because there's a few that you just wouldn't give a crap

if they left or not.

Cadillacs XT4 and XT6 are both gone.

I'm just great till you're not telling us

about a Ford electric truck again, Dave.

That's all.

Well, you know, I tried, but that just didn't,

it didn't resonate with you.

No, you gotta know.

But I know, we aren't gonna be really disappointed

to hear that the Chevy Malibu is no longer gonna be.

Exactly.

I wouldn't know a Malibu if it bit me in the ass,

would you guys?

I mean, unless that's the platform

for like the six-speed manual with the Corvette motor,

that was interesting other than that.

Yeah, like to fall asleep.

Polestar, the Polestar leaves.

The Polestar.

Okay, that same thing.

Dave, I think, Dave, I'm afraid you're done.

If you can't bring it back to be beyond brand

with full throttle talk.

Are we gonna talk about, you know,

how to pick old folks home next?

What you look for in the plug?

Obviously the, you know, the 718 series Porsches,

may they also, they're also gone

for the, you know, after, for a foreseeable future.

I rather doubt any of those cars that have been electrified

will not have their ICE hearts returned to them

because that's what the market demands.

And that's one of the reasons a Porsche is so screwed

right now is because the, you know, the all seeing,

you know, round table of the Smara Ratzi

over in Europe had decided that everyone wanted

an electric car and it turns out nobody wanted

an electric car, very few did.

Electric cars have their purpose and whatnot,

but not in a sports car.

But, you know, time will tell,

maybe the 718 electric version's gonna be phenomenal,

but are you guys interested in the electric version

of the 718, raise your hand.

You know what, I kind of, I think I told you

the last time I was in a 918

because I've driven them at full tilt before.

I went through this wonderful forest road

and I just clicked a thing in electric mode.

And it was pretty amazing being in a car like that

with just the sound of nature around you.

And that's honestly something I really do like

about my electric Vespa, a lot because it kind of puts you

in that kind of bicycle mode

where you're able to be transported through a place,

but you're still able to enjoy what's around you.

At the same time, I love mid-engine Porsches,

they're great, but if they made both of them

simultaneously, I think that might be a better move.

But unfortunately I am really bummed that it's going away,

but it will give us a great topic,

what is the best, you know, 1997 and later

mid-engine Porsche for sure.

Well, write that one down, that's a good idea.

Put that one in the sheet for next week.

So I'm going to change what my automotive news is

in case you can go to last since we,

you can talk about the Ferrari,

which I'm interested in hearing about.

The new, you guys heard about the new Golf R

that's going to have supposedly a 400, okay.

I hope it comes out.

I hope it comes out too.

I mean, seriously, that would be the fricking badass ass car

sold in America, sorry, full stop Porsche

or Ferrari or McLaren or blah, blah, blah, blah,

but it's a 400, supposedly like a 402 horsepower

straight out of the Audi was the RS3.

I mean, come on Volkswagen, please build that damn thing.

I mean, Audi should bring out a,

I mean, I remember when I was in Germany in 2015 or 2016

picking up a McCann for Euro delivery

and I kept seeing all these,

I really wanted a diesel wagon A3.

That was when they did the A3 wagons.

If they brought back an A3 wagon now

with that RS3 motor in it, that'd be an awesome car.

But if the Volkswagen, I mean, I've,

my wife only drives GTIs.

We've got a Mark seven and a half GTI now

and we had a Mark five before it.

And I think they're insane.

And that car, like we talked about that spectrum thing,

like that's a way for Volkswagen to make money.

James Pumphrey on the speed channel did a,

we're gonna get into one day our favorite YouTube channels

and we're gonna, I'm gonna talk about two of them right now.

I'll get to one of them in a little bit,

but speed on YouTube is amazing.

It's a whole vibe and James really loves

Mark three Volkswagen's, which I'm big into as well.

But he did basically this big expose

on why Volkswagen is failing

and bringing back a car like they're proposing

really would do so much service for people

that give a shit about Volkswagen.

Is the, is the buzz not a,

is no one buzzing about the buzz

cause it's an EV or cause it's overpriced or both?

I think the, the part of the reason that

it's getting some kickback is they only brought

the big version of it to the United States.

I remember at Rensport, Paul,

were you at Rensport and Rensport seven?

Did you see that rendiest one that they had dressed up

to look like the old parts carrying van?

It was a short wheelbase one than the dark red.

It looked badass.

Yeah, and you know that, and if they did make it,

they would just go like European market only.

Yeah.

Well, they do make a short wheelbase.

They do make a short one, but they don't.

But just not here.

Yeah.

Like the Soraco.

Why aren't they bringing that in?

I don't know.

I think it's cause the whole third row thing,

the whole game with basically lots of, you know,

because they're trying to compete against SUVs.

It's Casey's hitting the nail on the head.

These guys are fearful of making cars

that are too focused in on a specific niche.

And the Gulf are with the, you know,

essentially Volkswagen's PTS thing,

which by the way, their PTS plan,

whatever it's called, you know the name, it's really good.

Their paint options are really cool.

Huge numbers.

But Volkswagen needs to do something like that.

All these manufacturers need to basically go back

to why, what were my original USPs?

What made me special?

Why is it that people fell in love with my products?

And I need to do that again.

And I need to stop trying to be trendy.

I need to stop being crackle, but yeah, go ahead.

But I think the problem is they're,

they're looking at quarterly profits versus long-term.

And what happens is you build a cool golf product

and you have an affordable one all the way up.

And what happens is, you know, like James, you know,

like Casey talked about with James,

we got into Volkswagen, Golfs and Rabbits

because we were young.

We were 15, 16, 17, they were obtainable.

And then what happens is you then become loyal to the brand

and then you have your family

and then you get your Tiguan and whatever else,

three-row Volkswagen, whatever.

What they're forgetting is they just go, well, gosh,

the sport compact, the hot hatch market isn't there.

The market is really for crossovers and three-row cars.

So we'll just go there and they forget that the people

got there because they had a rabbit

when they were in high school.

They do.

Well, so what, you remember the Fiat 500,

which I know, Paul, you're a great fan of.

The Fiat 500 had, I know, the Fiat 500

had the Ferrari edition in Italy.

You guys, you guys know what I'm talking about?

There is a Tributo, oh, please, son.

You know, you won't want to.

That on speed lines would just, I would just, you know.

I'll put the speed line picture back up.

Let me finish making my point.

And yes, please put the speed line picture back up

to get back up, Paul, for that.

But they had a Tributo version of the Fiat 500

and it was Rosso Corsa, Ferrari, Scuderia Stripes.

It was a marketing job.

But what if, wait for it.

It came with a pair of shoes.

Okay, no.

Or purse.

That's pretty good though.

No, but what if, also, I can't remember to come out.

And purse, but the purse would be for Paul.

What if, what if, by the way,

I am never going to get used to guys

carrying freaking Hermes purses.

I saw that when we were out in Carmel too.

It's like, are you carrying,

I asked Julie when I saw this,

is that carrying, is he carrying it for his,

you know, sniffing another wife's girlfriend

would have you?

Nope, it's his.

I'm surprised that Rolex you bought didn't come with one.

Well, I bought this back

when I was probably younger than you.

So I've had it forever.

I bought this bad boy in the nineties.

So as far as Volkswagen,

Golf R, Porsche edition.

Oh, now you like it.

So why don't they do some kind of marketing thing

with Porsche and then they can essentially,

Volkswagen, since they're all part of the same family

who are all suffering equally, you know, Vag,

what they could hypothetically then make it so that,

you know, the Volkswagen, Golf R, even the GTI

were to be the gateway drug onto the Porsche family

since, since Volkswagen doesn't go into the more expensive

stuff anymore.

There would be my marketing idea.

You could have that Porsche and Volkswagen.

I think it's a great idea.

The problem is, you know,

you have to have almost as Japanese long-term thinking

that, that Porsche and, you know,

I like to call them Vag group doesn't really think of.

They got a core,

they got this quarterly profits.

They're all publicly driven.

And they're not ready to go produce a car,

have losses of billions for maybe, you know,

five to six years.

Could you please stop talking like you are right now?

Cause we do not want to discourage them

from making our fricking RS3.

No, I would be honest, I want it.

You should call it an RS2.

I wanted the RS3.

I want like literally if we got the RS3 hatchback,

I would have been definitely a buyer for that potentially.

Me too.

Yep.

I hate the sedan.

I don't think it's good looking at all.

And the sad thing is, it is a great car.

And I agree, the sedan is so boring.

As much as I hate an M4, I might, or an M3,

I would get that over the sedan.

Well, people, again, and I know this,

this is an arguable thing,

but why do people in the United States

not like smaller cars?

Why do people in the United States not buy hatchbacks?

And it's because it's a status thing.

And it's people will say it's safety

and people will say it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But the reality of it is, is you can make

an equally safe, lighter, smaller car,

but people, essentially the big brains over in Europe

think that Americans won't buy it

and they're probably right.

But also, you know, everyone wants, you know,

you ask women, they love their SUVs

because they got better visibility.

But now everyone's driving an SUV.

So you drive a sports car.

It's like driving through a moving canyon

like New York City.

I mean, I'm in a 911 and it's like, you know,

there's no like finding somewhere

where I have visibility at all.

I mean, it makes me almost want to.

914s are the worst.

Oh, yeah, I bet.

Yeah.

Yeah, you just feel like you're just

going to be a footprint on some other SUV.

That TR2 I bought, Casey, you'll understand this.

So you could literally like put your arm out the window

and practically have your elbow scratch the ground.

That's how small that is.

Well, I can drag my hands on the,

I can drag my fingernails on the ground

when driving my dad's TR3.

There you go.

So you have something interesting to share with us

about, yes, Paul's favorite topic, Ferrari.

Casey, go for it.

So I think Paul can get down with older Ferraris

that are interesting, especially ones that aren't made

by Ferrari but are made by English people.

So the car behind me, if you look,

I love the Haggerty YouTube channel.

I think it's tremendous.

I have my two favorite automotive journalists

are Chris Harris and Henry Cachpole.

And I would add Jason Camisa into that as a third.

I like Jason especially his Corvette thing

he did for Haggerty.

The love or hate Corvette, that was fricking

off the charts, bonkers good.

Sorry, Casey.

So Henry Cachpole did a story of the ProDrive 550 GTO

that won its class in Le Mans,

I think in 2003, the GTS category.

The car behind me is that car and it,

in the video, it didn't look like this.

If you look at the driver's side rear fender,

you can see it's got kind of like a blue and white livery.

That's how the car shows in the video

because the car ran so long

and under so many different liveries,

but it's a tremendous video.

I didn't know that much about 550 GTOs

but being that my buddy owns one

and I drove it the other week,

when this video came up,

I was like, well, I'll check this out.

And it was awesome.

It was pure tremendous storytelling,

talking about, I think Ali Gavin was in the video,

he was running the C5Rs against them at Le Mans.

They were talking about closing speeds

and it was just, it was so well done.

It was so well scripted

and I'd really just, I'd really recommend everybody,

check it out, it was tremendous.

The ability to drive fast and talk

in a non-excited or overly energetic way.

So you can actually convey a thought

is I don't have that skill.

And when I was driving that 550,

like it was so difficult for me to shift

and engage a gear and make sure it's,

cause it's got these long overhangs

to not stick the front end into something.

I can't imagine, I would love to be with somebody

that drove a car like that in period

that really knew what they were doing

or had 50,000 miles in one

because to me the car had so many different

like inflection points of steering.

Actually the steering was really great

because the wheelbase is short, just like that 997.

But you, when you're shifting gears,

like I get, I think Ferrari puts

gated manuals in cars

because their manual transmissions are so bad

that you need the gates to actually be able to find gears.

Is that the case, Paul?

Have you driven these manuals?

I mean, I always wondered maybe 911s needed it

and they just like a 901 and a 915 needed a gated shifter.

Casey, it's just a historical thing.

It's like Porsche had in the key on the 911 on the side

cause the gets, you know, the, blah, blah, blah, blah.

That's all it has nothing to do with bad transmissions.

But the engagement and everything felt so interesting

that it would really be cool to experience that car

with somebody that really knew how to drive it.

And I'll make that a goal of mine.

I've not ridden as a passenger in the car before,

but it was pretty great.

But anyway, absolutely do yourself a favor

and watch that video.

It's awesome.

It is really, really great.

Who, V12s?

Paul, have you ever driven one?

Sure, we sold a 550 Maranello gated shifter

and it was lovely.

And, you know, and going back to what Casey said

and we talked about this before the show,

which I think the minute we get on the show, Tim,

just hit record, we could edit it out.

I know.

Like the shit we sling is pretty freaking great.

I'll do that next week.

And we touched on it briefly, but, you know,

the nuance of how, you know, even a 550 Maranello,

that's 90s, it's not really that vintage,

but it still had a leg planted in the vintage world.

And I remember driving that car

and I was like, I got that car to sell.

It was a beautiful silver with a blue interior,

97, 550 Maranello, 19,000 miles.

We sold it in 2011 for 70 grand.

And it, I was like, I'm gonna drive this for a week.

Daily driver, grocery shop, take the kids to school,

do everything like a regular car.

And in the beginning, it was sort of temperamental fry.

I didn't like second gear, cold, the normal stuff.

And then once you kind of calibrated,

it didn't test drive well, what I like to say.

In 30 minutes, you weren't gonna be proficient at it.

And in a week, I got semi-proficient at it

just cause I drive different cars.

But that's like, I always tell people,

these old cars take six months to calibrate to.

Like they're not gonna drive like your modern car.

And once you got the 550 Maranello kind of figured out,

it was great.

And then going to what you said,

you know, a really big collector,

funny guy here in Orange County,

he wants to buy the car.

He says, bring it over to my shop.

I never like to do that,

but he's a good friend.

It wasn't far away.

I bring it over there.

He takes, he has a bunch of these cars, old Ferraris.

He knows how to drive them.

He has, he's part of the cliente program

with one of Michael Schumacher's F1 cars.

He's bat shit crazy.

I don't know if I trust him, but I know he can drive.

We get in the car

and we do the most harrowing street drive

around his property.

It's like this three miles square block loop,

like literally right hand red light

drifting into the corner.

And it was awesome.

I mean, it was like,

like you could have been in an eighties Ferrari.

You could have been a seventies Ferrari.

It just had all of that,

which I still think the 360

and maybe the 430 have.

But now you get to these guys in the new cars,

you know, well, obviously don't have a manual anymore.

And they, you know,

if you're driving on 30 miles an hour, they're easy.

You know, it's like, fuck easy.

I want these cars to be bitches at 30 miles an hour.

You know, I want them to be clear

that like you are using me the wrong way.

And if you're going to use me the wrong way,

I'm going to make it difficult for you.

I want to be on the open highway or whatever.

He's really, he's really salty.

Have you driven a V12?

I've not driven one.

I've been in a passenger, not driven one.

So what would be, Casey,

how would you encapsulate driving that 550?

Like what was the experience you had

driving a 12 cylinder front engine Ferrari?

And Paul, the front engine versus the men engine

is a huge difference when you drive a front engine Ferrari

because, you know,

you can say an 812 Comp to Zione as a performance car

and whatever, but it's really a GT car, you know,

because just that's just how it is.

But what was your experience

given all your Porsche background?

Well, I actually look after a lot of Ferraris too.

I look after an F12 TDF and an 812 Comp.

And my buddy that owns this car owns a 599 as well.

And like LFA's that I could never,

I love the sound of LFA's,

but the transmissions are horrible.

The 599 transmission is,

it's not as bad as an LFA transmission.

But to me, I wanted to feel this car with this recipe.

And it was, the funny thing for me

is it reminded me of bad boys too.

I don't know if that's a 575 or a 550.

To me, they look the same,

but I have a picture of myself from a zillion years ago

at the Ritz Carlton in New Orleans

standing in front of a 550 when they were new.

And it was, to me, it's archetypal.

I think it is one of the most beautiful,

modern-ish Ferraris.

It's a Lucca Montezemolo car, if I'm not mistaken.

And when he was in charge of Ferrari,

I thought the cars looked a lot better.

You know why?

I don't.

They're all designed.

Who knows?

So can I interject a story here?

You guys will appreciate.

So we're at Pina Farina in Italy, right?

Of course.

And this is, as Ferrari was moving

to have their own design studio,

I forget what it's called,

something fancy in Italian, on campus at Ferrari.

So up until that point, about when we were there,

which I think was 2011,

Pina Farina had done all their designs.

And Lucca would fly in because our little group,

we were with the Car Guy Tour thing.

So the Lucca would fly in on a helicopter

over to Pina Farina from, you know, Maranello.

And they said they could hear him coming from miles away

because the helicopter was making so much ruckus.

And then he would land to your point,

Paul, about him having taste.

And he would go in there and tell the designers

what he did or didn't like about their designs.

And so a lot of the Ferraris from his generation

were directly influenced by his design.

And the one in particular that they were saying

that he really had a lot of hands on was the Lusso.

And, you know, what was it called before that?

And now-

It was the FF, FF, FF, FF, right.

Which, I mean, one of the few Ferraris I would love to have.

Well, I mean, everyone who's driven those cars

say they're magnificent.

And, you know, French and Ferrari,

you can actually seat four people comfortably.

I knew the former GM of the Austin Ferrari store

with, and he was a former football player,

he was driving and three of his huge football player friends,

two in the back, one in the front,

and they went out and burned through a set of tires on Kota.

And you know why I like them.

They are an Italian four-seater M-Coupe.

Just, you know, for sure.

I just love how ridiculous they are.

And has anyone manual swapped those cars?

Is that even possible?

Well, let's actually circle around what we're talking about.

Ferrari, manual transmission, all these other things.

There's really a lot of rumors coming out of Idli

that they're going to start making

the very high-end cars with manual options.

And that'll probably trickle down,

because again, these guys are going to try to split the pie

even more amongst their high-end consumers.

And that's going to happen in Porsche

in that same way it's going to happen in Ferrari for sure.

I don't know why Ferrari has waited so long to do that.

So, Dave, I have a question for you.

What is your favorite modern Ferrari

if you had to pick one?

Who are you asking?

Dave.

He's asking me.

I got to make sure he's awake.

There's a worse guy on this podcast to,

no, yeah, I probably, I mean, I kind of like the Roma.

It's a good-looking car.

It's unique.

I mean, that's, it's.

I like the fact that the Roma has a name.

You know, it's not a, no, but a good call.

Did you, I agree.

I can't keep any of the numbers straight

on any of them, candidly.

But Roma is, you know, the cool, good-looking

front-engine car.

I agree.

I think it's beautiful.

Ferrari had the Roma, the Roma.

The Roma and the Amalfi, essentially sitting next

to each other, Acaciti Ferrari this year at Pebble Beach.

And the Roma look so much better than the Amalfi.

The Amalfi's front end and back end.

I don't know what the hell they're thinking

when they redesigned that car.

The original Roma's, I agree with Dave 100%.

I think the Roma, especially the Roma Spider,

is a shockingly beautiful car.

I think the Ferrari 296, the 296 GTS

is also a shockingly good-looking car.

And the GTS is now essentially coming out

as the best modern Ferrari to answer

Casey's inevitable next question.

Yes, Paul, go ahead, get it in.

I'm feeling an allergic reaction

because we haven't talked about Porsche for a few years.

I know, I was thinking we're gonna lose

in our entire audience.

We get back to Porsche.

Okay.

All right, I'm done.

Let's move on.

Segment three, this week in auctions.

What are your top two?

What are the top two just whatever caught your eye

this week in auctions?

And I'm sure you guys had fun with this.

I'm gonna have Dave go first.

Dave, you wanna go get some coffee, son?

No, I'm good, I'm good.

It's, you know, I'll wake up here, we're good.

This particular car I thought was interesting

and I'll tell you why, good and bad here.

This particular car is a obviously an Outlaw 356A.

It has a history that seemed to have it modified

several times, including the addition of a Polo motor

that we've talked about previously to this build

just a few years ago, 2022, I believe.

This car sold for about $350,000.

Wow.

And I think it could have done more.

I just thought the interior

was a total let down on this car.

That's the thing that I think held this car back.

Okay, let him finish presenting and then we'll talk.

Okay, so go ahead, sorry.

Now what I was gonna say is

the rest of this car I think is terrific.

I mean, it's beautiful color.

The build is good.

The build spec is good.

The builders who built the car,

lots of different craftsmen over the years and so on.

But then you look at this interior

and let's see if I can show it,

which is basically a set of modified

second gen Riccaro sports seats

where they've chopped the tops

and used an adjustable headrest.

Yeah, it looks like a Mark II GTI seat.

They look like two-stone seats.

You guys, let the gentleman present

his two cars he likes.

And then we'll go.

I'm in, go.

And then we'll rip him apart.

No, no, he's right.

No, no, Dave is dead on.

He's right.

But that's why this car,

that's why this car didn't do the money.

I mean, it should,

when you look at an Emory car,

these Emory cars on the secondary market,

I mean, it's costing you $350,000, $400,000

to buy an Emory car when you spec it from Rod.

This car-

How much did you say, Dave?

350 to 400, I think is where the entry point is.

You think he's higher now, huh?

I know he's higher.

The entry point three years ago was $400,000, three years ago.

So, and he talked to,

and actually he talked about it on the Spike show.

I mean, I felt so bad for Rod dealing with those knuckleheads.

But, you know, he basically three years

and you start at $500,000, $600,000.

And it wasn't really clear

that you may have to have the car.

He supplies it.

Julie and I had one ordered and we backed out on it

because frankly, my interest changed

to be honest with you, which I'll get to in a second.

Yeah. So you had a secondary car too.

And by the way, we love the Emory family.

Just like freaking royalty of the Porsche nerds, you know.

Go ahead, Dave, what was your other car?

The, well, the other auction that I was watching

or it was less a car and more, hang on a minute,

I'm just making sure I'm not confusing things here.

But it looks like it was a, yeah, go ahead.

I thought this was an interesting sale.

And this is basically not a car,

but this was a bargain, in my opinion, for this set of sports seats.

So this particular set of sports seats went for $4,500.

And this is a late generation.

Obviously, I pay attention to this stuff a good bit

because these cars are definitely, or excuse me, these seats

definitely bring real money.

This is a, this should have been six, seven thousand dollars

for this set of seats.

But this, this one went no reserve at $4,500.

They look terrific.

That's one of the best seats that I have ever sat in.

It's my most go-to seat for Porsches is that generation,

which is the fourth generation sports seat

that you found up in through early 993s.

And that's a great buy.

That's a good buy for those seats.

All right.

So I have a question for you guys, his first option, right?

So even if it's an Emory car, an Emory definitely has the premium brand.

If you have a choice between spending $400 to $450 on an Emory,

and we all love Rod, or $400 to $450 on a 356 GS with a 4 cam,

which are you going to choose and why?

You know, you can get a 4 cam for $450 grand.

Yes, sir.

I mean, OK, not apples to apples, not a great one.

Not a great apples.

It's not a great one.

You're right.

Because I'm comparing basically a modernized old car to an old car.

No, no, no, but I'm I'm saying, yes, you can get a 4 cam non numbers match.

Like if you're buying a 4 cam car, you can get a numbers matching GS.

You know how I know how I asked Cam to find me one.

And he said, I asked him what I should expect to spend.

He said $400 to $450 done.

Can I done car done?

Yeah, yeah, done rolling car.

And he and I, this is and by the way, his we should have talked about this.

He has won so many Pebble Beach, you know, awards.

It's ridiculous.

They I don't even know how many.

But his car one, it was sitting next to my friend's D type.

Anyway, that's when I got an opportunity to corner him and talk to him about that.

But he told me we were talking about, look at Paul checking comps.

He told me that he could he could get us.

I know what you're doing.

He said he could get us a three fifty six four cam.

Honestly, we didn't talk about numbers matching or matching or whatever.

I didn't get into it with him.

But he said you can get one of those 400 to 450 grand.

So OK, assuming that's the case, you know, I don't think so.

But assuming that's the case.

Because if you do do that, let me know the end price at the very end when you do.

I would probably still get a Rod Emery for this very reason.

Those GS are cool. They're amazing.

The four cam motor insane.

Not super usable, a nightmare to maintain.

I think that is a market that is aging out and for the GS.

Four cam that are really if you're going to buy that, you buy

is like an RS, you're going to buy a 73 S you go.

You're not even yes, you can find them for six, seven, eight hundred thousand.

No, you plan on spending a million because you might as well get a great one

because finding for so many reasons.

Whereas as much as I love Rod Emery and I think his cars are beautiful

and I'm not necessarily the market, I would probably go with the Rod Emery

because I think in the long run, I think it's a more stable buy

and I hate future value.

But I think in terms of who the buyers are going to be more buyers

down the road for that car than the GS.

And it is a hop in, you know, kicking the pants, fun to drive,

easy to maintain, you know, better experience period, you know,

but I might be right, you might be right.

And that is not traditional advice that you just offered,

but you might be right because this new generation

that we don't completely understand is growing up loving Emery's

because Emery's so trendy and popular.

So you might be right.

Casey, what would you choose?

An Emery 356 or a four cam GS?

It's a tough question because I know people that buy singer cars

for a lot of money and you can buy a singer car,

you can buy like a 3.3 liter of lightweight for like the same amount

of money, which is like crazy that people buy singers when those exist.

Sorry, he's right.

But I drive like I have an old Porsche,

which I'll get into on the next podcast, not this one

that has old Porsche problems.

And every once in a while, I'd like to get in the car.

And when Paul was talking about reacclimating to old car things,

I look after literally some of the best examples of 964s

probably out there.

And I always compare my car to that, which I have difficulties doing

because, you know, it's an old car with a bunch of miles on it.

But I would traditionally tell you that I would go for the original

recipe rad version because it's what's in my blood.

But I know that Rod's cars are safe because they've got really great breaks.

I know that they're put together super well and they who knows

who would have done a restoration on a four hundred and fifty

thousand dollar GS four cam car.

Yeah, well, hold on.

Just just again, so you're saying you're you're bifurcated to

you're of two minds.

But I'll suggest to you that the GS that you can now get

between four and four hundred and fifty was selling for what Paul's

remembering them as a nine hundred to one point two million.

So when the car was restored, it probably was numbers matching

and restored to the highest level.

And so you're just, you know, just for what it's worth.

As far as safety goes, yeah, you're probably right about the breaks.

But the structure is virtually the same.

They're both, you know, essentially rolling beer cans.

Right. I'd probably I mean, I don't like three fifty six

coups personally, but I would go with I would go with the Emory car

in this situation. Dave, how about you think it's a lot more usable?

I would do the Emory car for sure.

Same same reasons that you guys have all stated.

Plus, I just like the styling.

I like what he does.

I like the fact that it's tweaked and and tucked in certain spots.

And and I like what he does with the interiors, which is a little bit

raw, rowdy, rough, but still feeling tailored.

And to me, I think he does a really nice job on the interior work.

So I'd go with the Emory.

All right. So here's the challenge to all of you guys.

He's showing right there in his backdrop, a car that nine people

out of 10 would have assumed was an Emory and arguably, I don't know,

but arguably is built to the same standard.

Let's just assume that it is.

And the problem is the same problem that singers having, there is going to be

if there's a big market for hot rod three fifty sixes,

there's going to be 20,000 other people making the same damn things.

The the vintage three fifty six GS four cams.

They aren't making any more of those.

So moving on now that I got the last word in let me go next

because I'm going to continue the three fifty six game.

Is that OK? Go for it, man.

So I saw that Dave picked this and I was a little bit late.

This car in my picture,

this might be the world's best photography for bring a trailer.

Yeah, this could this could literally be on like you.

If you add like a little sepia to that,

it could have been a period correct photograph from gorgeous 1960.

I would buy this car over all of the cars we just discussed.

It's a one family owned three fifty six a roadster from 1959.

It's a good word sold.

Yeah. And this car sold for all of the money.

And then some it was like three how I got it right here.

Three hundred and three hundred and twenty two thousand dollars plus fee.

So you're at three hundred and forty grand.

If I had a stupid amount of money, I would have bought that car.

But from those pictures alone, it sold me on the whole thing.

And it sold me on this.

I want to go back to nineteen fifty nine or nineteen sixty and live

a simple life in the mountains or wherever in the world that was taken.

And I want to be that person.

Yeah, I have never seen quickly, though.

And having driven the car, you'd get over it very quickly.

Well, I actually I look after it.

I look after a B roadster, which is almost a speedster, right?

And honestly, I'd love a speedster as well.

But putzing around in that car at low speeds is such a vibe.

Like it's such an enjoyable experience.

Like, yes, you any minute feel like you're going to die.

If something if anything were to happen.

But God, it's such a great experience to really be transported back in time.

Fear of death definitely gives for an elevated experience.

That's for damn.

Here's the problem with old cars in general.

Like it's easy to drive an old car and say, man, this thing sucks.

The steering is all over the place.

It breaks for all of us, blah, blah, blah.

No, it sucks.

It's the guy that restored it or the guy before that they restored it

or the 10 times it's been restored.

And nobody knew what the hell they were doing.

They didn't put it back together correctly.

When you drive essentially an original version like what that is

that's been kept up and you know how it was actually supposed to feel.

Assuming it's meant mechanically been kept up.

You are going to have a nine times at a time, a completely different experience.

Well, it's like we talked about triumphs.

I mean, my dad's TR three is awesome.

It is a transportation in time back to 1957.

And I get in that car and it doesn't have a sink.

It doesn't have synchromesh gears.

So when you're going down, you have to put it in second and then into first

to get it to go, but it's such a tremendous experience.

It's just it's really a transportation in time.

And I my nine 14 needs a motor.

But I feel the same way when I drive that car.

I get a lot more pleasure out of driving old nine 14s and old three

fifty sixes than I ever will in my nine sixty four.

Casey, nine 14 with a screwed up motor is the vintage

experience like it was when it was new? Sure.

Yeah, but mine only has one and a quarter cylinders worth of compression.

So so it started with 50 horsepower.

Now it's got like six.

So so next.

Well, just really quick on three fifty six.

I looked at it, too.

And that photographer squeezed over 110 grand out of the buyer

because he was right.

That was the photography was beautiful.

It did exactly what it should.

But I sent this car to a friend of mine who's an expert, a dirt layer.

He knows these cars.

You know, when you look on classic, first of all, the average right now

is two hundred and eleven thousand and it's got a down arrow,

which means it's been going down.

And you look at there's not a lot of cops.

But when you look at the cops, that car was a non numbers matching

red on ten, the least desirable color where colors huge.

When you looked at it, yes, it was one owner.

And I know people love one owner, but one owner isn't always the end of the world.

That car got, yeah, refurbished or like painted and done things.

And it was if you looked at it closely, it was a nice, what I would call

survivor driver, not preservation, but but lightly refurbished over the years.

It probably is a really fundamentally good car.

It's probably dry.

It probably hasn't been yet.

But it's not an, oh, my God, car.

That car is a two hundred and ten thousand dollar car on the best day.

But, yeah, like you said, Casey, the photography and the right room

and the right audience, which this will help us segue to my cars,

which is this eighty nine Carrera G fifty coup

that sold about a week and a half ago.

And what's interesting about this car, it's an eighty nine G fifty

coup in silver with, you know, linen interior.

Let me get this off.

That had those sports seats in it.

That car would be so great.

So if you were playing with around with one of these, weren't you?

Wasn't it you that posted on our WhatsApp group?

One of these. Yeah. So.

So and this is interesting.

Came out of Florida, seventeen thousand miles original paint,

of course, dry ice to the end of the world.

Beautiful car, linen interior.

And what's interesting is my client bought it.

In fact, my client was just foaming at the mouth

when he saw we were getting this car.

And he's like, let me know, because he had bought another blue car for me.

Loves blue.

He missed out on an eighty five Prussian blue car that we had.

That was spectacular.

So he reached his eyes as, hey, I'm not interested in that

because I just bought this thing.

So I call. So I email them.

I'm like, just want to know the inside psyche.

And this kind of tells you this car, you know, ready?

Brace yourself.

Did you guys see this car close? Anyone?

OK, good. I did.

I just can't. I mean, I tried this because it went for a lot of money.

Casey, don't say any.

I mean, Dave, don't say any.

Casey, Tim, eighty nine G50 coupe, silver on linen, not sport seats,

not a one owner, seventeen thousand miles original paint,

an exceptionally nice car.

Very good preservation example.

What do you think it's sold for?

What are my anniversary car?

Not an anniversary.

What's the price for getting it right?

You get a purse.

We'll call it a European carry-all.

Well, I have the spreadsheet open, so I see your notes.

So I shouldn't be playing.

Ah, sure. Casey, did you see it?

So how many miles are on it?

Seventeen thousand.

That's that's a lot of boxes.

Hundred hundred and sixty grand, hundred and fifty grand.

Well, you're pretty close.

Basically, one almost one eighty with fees.

So which is a lot.

But this goes in and let in.

If you you saw the G50s coming out after that, they didn't do as well.

I reached out to him.

I said, hey, just curious, like and he has the money.

You know, why did you know what the market is?

He missed out on our eighty five career of forty thousand miles

in Prussian blue that was spectacular, but it was not G50.

He wanted a G50 lives here in Southern California.

We sold that car quietly and quickly for one fifty.

He then says, you know, I have had feelers out

with six different people, including you for a pristine

low mile G50 coupe for the last year.

Sam Cabilio, you know, a Jerry Seinfelds guy,

he had ID'd one that I didn't pull the trigger on that sold for one fifty seven

a midnight blue tan eighty five non G50 similar to the one that we have in New York.

I investigated, told the dealer, I didn't think it was worth it.

And that dealer sold it for two hundred, supposedly because Pasadena

has gotten so hot in the summers, I wanted a light interior.

And as you know, Silver's a classic Porsche color and my favorite,

my Macan GTS commuter is Silver.

My cap was one sixteen, but in the heat of the moment on B.A.T.

And it's two drunk guys in a room.

No, seriously, you have your auctions, have your auctions

and drink a clock, whatever that is in the.

Yeah, but it was but it was if you notice that it was a guy who had

the means and he'd been looking for so long and he didn't care.

He didn't care.

But the thing is, I've already had several people with G50s come to me going,

I here's my algorithm and their car is a seventy thousand mile repainted

ding on car facts, red on tan.

And I'm not trying to explain.

I'm like, my client would never even look at your car.

Those are two separate buyers.

So so going on to the next car.

So that car sold exceptionally well.

And that's why I always tell people public auctions,

private or in-person auctions, internet auctions,

you know, like less than one percent strike lightning when you really look at it.

And it's this formula where something happens.

Now, moving on to another, the other one I saw, which I think this one,

it is a nineteen eighty nine eleven SC

with a three two motor backdated sold here in California.

Just close last week.

Well, it didn't close.

It bid to eighty seven thousand miles.

Looking it is a cool looking car.

And it's painted in what's called dark glacier blue paint,

which this looks to me like pastel blue.

It has rammed a little, though, Paul.

I mean, there you go.

And you nail you nailed it, Dave.

When you look at this car, it it has got a cool motor.

I think it might even have a sticker and past California smog.

I don't know.

It is a personal touch.

I don't think it's bad looking, but the photos sucked for sure.

It's stupidly slammed and all the photos, you know,

this photo looked nice because you couldn't tell it was slammed.

But this photo, kind of good picture.

This photo, a stupid fiberglass S bumper.

Look at the wheel fitment in the front.

They didn't put spacers on it.

But, you know, nice three two motor.

It bid to eighty seven thousand dollars.

I think this car needed to, you know, do something with the wheel spacing.

Get the fender trim off it.

It didn't didn't match the vibe.

I don't know why there's fender trim on it.

I think there is in one of the photos.

Yeah. And and and raise the height.

And I think this car, this car should have been a 120 130 car.

If it was, it looked I went through all the pictures.

It looked pretty well built.

So those are my two cars.

Thoughts. Well, I mean, yeah.

I'm surprised the blue car sold for that much, to be honest with you.

Well, the blue car bid, it didn't sell to eighty seven thousand.

Oh, well, I mean, eighty seven seems like good money for that thing, based on,

you know, but from a from a making money perspective, Mr.

Yous car dealer, I mean, that would have been a good car to get

and make right and put back for sale.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

You could have said ten grand on that thing and made forty hundred.

Dave knows looking at this stuff.

This car, when you really get the pictures, it's actually done pretty well.

This is it's good taste.

I looked close at the seats.

They use nice materials.

The interior wasn't fucked up.

It's just they made some poor design.

Get rid of the front headlights.

Right. Get rid of it.

It's got pop windows, which are super dope.

That's great. Yeah.

And all the trims chrome.

It's like they got to the one yard line and fumbled big time.

Oh, well, but again, there's an example of someone would purchase that.

If someone would say Dave or say someone like Paul or say someone like Casey

would direct message the seller on bring a trailer,

probably can get a pretty good buy on the damn thing and make some money on it.

But here's the now going back to what we talked about earlier.

It's now got an anchor price of eighty seven thousand.

Yes, it didn't sell.

But how many buyers that call me to go, yeah, I saw that for

I saw that I bring a trailer sold for fifty.

Yeah, you're right. Look at it. I'll go, no, it did.

It didn't sell because, well, two people in the room,

that's what they thought it was worth.

So I think this car, even if it's fixed right, might be doomed.

So let me ask you to change it a bunch.

You'd have to modify.

You'd have to do some things that make that car look really different

and then probably pick another venue to try to sell it.

You know, some. But but it's just one.

Then Google, you just get a number and you're there.

You don't even have to Google anymore.

Just like classic.com.

Yeah. Well, so a couple of things.

First of all, try to get Dirk on the podcast

because without a doubt that guy is the expert of experts.

And you've you've met him before, I assume you connected me with him

when I had when I didn't want to take delivery of our 67 s

after it was done with restoration and he made a shit list,

which frankly made Marco and his dad not like me for quite a while

because it was long.

I I've known Dirk for over 20 years.

He came by the hospital when we talked.

He is an acquired taste and we joke over the years.

I have picked up his salty traits and he's actually softened.

He's becoming more like me, which is probably not wrong.

But I refer like with your issue, like Dirk is right.

When people don't realize when you go to a Lufka Colt,

you see those super, super special cars at Lufka Colt.

90 percent of them are coming from Dirk's clients.

Dirk's coordinating him.

He's in the background.

He's getting there.

He never asked for recognition.

So when I have a client calls me that wants to spend money

on something special, like, for instance, Tim, if I told

if you talk to him and said I want a Carrera GS, you know,

four cam and I can get it for 400, he will laugh at your face

because he knows he knows the players involved

and he knows what it takes because for him.

Well, remember, by the in my defense, I didn't say it.

I am only passing on to you who arguably one of the biggest

experts of four cam three fifty sixes in the world told me.

Now, it's possible, I suppose, that I heard wrong, but I didn't.

Now, I have another question for you guys, all three of you.

These cars, these dry ice, like so, for example,

first of all, it's always funny when you're reading comments on bat.

You can always tell how old somebody is based on whether or not

when they ask a question, like, what's all that yellow shit underneath the car?

You know, because they don't know what cosmoline is.

But other than this, would you remove?

Would you dry ice a cosmoline, you know, 80s car

just to make it look better in pictures, given the fact

that you're now exposing all those metals, metal bits and bobs to

corrosion, Dave, you first, I would, I would not take off the cosmoline.

I would set the dry ice settings to get rid of all the dirt, but leave the cosmoline.

And if, in fact, I disturbed too much of it, I would actually reapply it.

100% because you want to have that originality.

First of all, you want the cleanliness because that absolute those underpicture

undercarriage shots with the car looking like that.

That's that's money for sure.

You're going to spend $3,000 to get that thing dry ice blast underneath.

But if you go too strong with it, then you're going to end up looking like,

you know, it just it just doesn't look right.

It doesn't look authentic.

So put the put some of that cosmoline back on.

That's what I would think.

Well, I'll suggest a trend is going to be is to install

cosmoline on cars that are freshly restored because that's going to

become more desirable because it's going to make it look authentic.

But Casey, what do you think?

Cosmoline or no cosmoline on a car from that vintage?

So I look after a 1200 mile 89 speedster.

It's white with red interior and a blue top.

Beautiful car has the the most cosmoline I've ever seen under any car.

And when it because it's always in the air,

because I don't put many miles on that one, that's that one's

more of a warm up in place kind of thing.

You know, it's a little bit gross to look at,

especially when you see how it originally came, because it's still

it's still, you know, you can still move it around with your fingers.

It's like it's never it's never driable.

Yeah, it's an absolute time capsule of a car.

There are places where I think it is necessary.

There's a shop near Dave called Merit

that is a really, really great guys.

I've messaged them a bunch because I need some work done on my land cruiser.

And I'll likely send it down there when the time comes.

I don't like to blast everything off.

I've looked at some vehicles that have sold through Canepa

and they do they blast off everything off the bottom of the car

from what I have perceived from the invoices.

And when I've seen the bottoms of the cars, I like stuff that looks more original.

I like stuff that is a little bit, you know, as it came from the factory

as it was intended.

So I would agree with Dave, just dial it back.

So really, you're just getting the crud off, but leaving as much of the

originality as possible where we miss and not letting younger folks know.

Cosmoline is basically this oily goop that they stuck up.

I think it was made by Comfort Worth or something.

It's paraffin base paraffin base.

There you go.

And it basically covered everything under side of the car.

And it was for arguably the long boat ride over from the motherland.

So the salt air didn't eat the car alive.

So, Paul, what do you think? Cosmoline or no Cosmoline?

Do you don't dry ice your cars?

Do you know?

So if you look at our videos on Instagram, we will steam clean them,

which is a fraction of the cost.

Like to do a full car properly, you start at two thousand dollars

to dry ice and it goes up to maybe three thousand dollars.

There are some ways we can do just the engine.

You can get it down to fifteen hundred.

We spend on average three hundred dollars to steam clean them,

which gets us 80 percent of the way there.

Now this car here, the one that my friend bought for one hundred and

eighty thousand dollars, if it wasn't dry iced, he probably

went to bought it. It was part of the whole sales package.

Now, I have taught.

I wish someone would do like triple zero is the perfect platform

to do a deep dive on this, because I would love to know

if you bought a German spec car in Germany, did it have

paraffin, did it have this Cosmoline paraffin substance?

Like you mentioned, it was for the boat ride over.

Now, I think in some cases it's done a really good job,

especially for East Coast cars to preserve it.

Now, I remember distinctly in the early, let's see,

it would have been mid eighties.

My dad and I went to Mercedes North America Delivery Center,

which was in Boine Park near Knott's Berry Farm.

So all the Mercedes Benz in the eighties coming off the boat

would go directly to this place.

And we saw literally snaking around this entire huge property.

This was probably a three hundred yard.

It looked like a hazmat thing.

Imagine a dryer vent big enough for a car to go through.

You know, this sort of dryer vent looking thing

that wrapped about three hundred yards around the building

and it had ramps.

These cars would come in now.

You know how many deliver cars?

They've got like paper and bags and all this weird shit around.

These cars didn't have that the entire car.

Windows, everything was covered in Cosmoline.

See, I didn't know that. Did you guys know that?

Well, it's like it might be like those Jaguars

that I was talking to Paul about before,

where they had the it was a responsibility of the dealership

to remove the Cosmoline from the paint.

Yes, Casey. Did you did Casey and Dave?

Did you guys know they covered the entire car?

I thought they only did the underside.

I got a BMW that way in the early nineties.

Well, that's cool.

Now, I don't know. Porsche did.

I never saw Porsche.

So it was wild as these cars would drive on the ramp.

There may be like two feet off the air.

They're driving slowly, like almost a conveyor belt.

And there is a 360 degrees hot steam water thing

shooting this car.

And it's basically steam water melting off the paraffin.

And it takes 300 yards of going through that.

And it comes out pretty sparkling clean.

Of course, it goes to the shop and they're going to have to detail it.

And they do stuff to get the rest of it off.

But in the engine, they don't do any more thing.

And you can imagine, there's a lot more left on the engine.

And my dad had a 79 300 diesel and sure enough,

it had Cosmoline on there.

So in in my purse, going back to your answer,

I believe this product was not supposed to stay on the car.

I believe it was supposed to come off the car

based on just my anecdotal knowledge.

In the case of a car like Casey's, where it's super low mile

and it's preservation, leave it on.

What I hate most is they see this Cosmoline

and it could be a low mileage car.

But as you mentioned, it's a soft paraffin, gooey thing.

And guess what? It gets oil on it.

And most of the time you look at it and it's not amber,

it's not this honey color, which it should be.

It is gross black snot.

And why have that on there?

So in one case, yes, keep it on.

And by the way, most people don't realize

if you get a really good like house steamer,

you can take a lot of that off yourself.

You don't have to dry ice it and it's not as tedious.

And that's what we do. We make it a little more presentable.

But in my case, unless it's a special car, get that shit off there.

Well, let's start wrapping because I think we've broken a record for yammering.

So I'm going to a little end on a Porsche high note.

And if you guys don't mind sitting through my and I'll make it quick.

I've been watching out of curiosity mostly

and you guys can see in the notes, the Porsche, these latest,

you know, the GT3 market, this ST market and the rest of it.

And these STs, as you guys might remember, are coming off lease.

There were 12 month leases, right?

Casey, you had to lease them for 12 months from Porsche.

Yeah, if you want a 918 bar, right.

So that's right.

And so I heard and I've been told that those are all coming off lease

in the next like two to three months.

And so what's going to happen to the market?

But if you look at right now, for example, the ST is about to come off lease.

What will price? What will be the price spread between an ST?

And I know it's not an exact comp.

There's no difference.

There's more differences between, say, a 911 R than a 911

touring from the same 991 generation.

But if you were to compare the difference in price between an ST right now

and a 992 touring, even a .2 touring, right?

The price difference is extraordinary.

Three double, it's two X basically.

So can you guys, do you guys think that spread will remain?

And what do you think about that?

That market undulation is just due to scarcity

because they're not enough actively for sale.

What do you think, Dave?

I think the price differential for a while will maintain.

And then obviously, just like anything, Tim, supply and demand,

it's going to shrink a little bit, right?

I think right now it's still hot, hot, hot.

So if you've got one and you're going to move it, now's the time to move it.

But as these more and more of these cars of what was it,

like a nineteen hundred and sixty three total of those, I think they were built.

It's still a scarcity thing.

And you can get a lot more GT three, a lot more GT three touring.

I still think that price is going to come down.

If you want to, if you want out, you better get out now.

That's my opinion.

And I wonder if one of these new special edition

Porsches that they're inevitably going to come out is going to be an ST light

or even maybe something more enhanced than an ST just because they need to make money.

Casey, what do you think?

Do you think the price difference will remain?

I think it will.

I mean, you could see it.

What happened?

The first short blue one on Bringetrailer sold for eight hundred.

Yeah.

The second one, no sale, that's seven oh two.

And then basically a couple more trickled in that we're like paint to sample

like there was a fjord green one, I think on Peacar market.

Yep.

But I mean, they're still in the six fifty range.

I mean, I still there's going to be a two hundred to two hundred and fifty

thousand dollar delta between it and a touring eventually.

What's the price difference between a sixteen nine eleven are

and a say, for example, ninety nine ninety one point two touring?

Do you guys know?

I mean, ours are really ours.

Ours and speedsters are on the going way up.

I'm not sure if you paid attention to that.

You probably did, Tim, but my client just sold his green one for too

little and it went in the upper fours and bought a the signal yellow one

that broad arrow was auctioning.

We're talking speedsters now here.

Not so 80 miles.

So all of those cars were four hundred grand for a really long time.

And now they are now they are going up.

Ours are going to be doing the same thing to get an interesting are.

I mean, those cars are five hundred plus.

If it's a paint to sample car or car like the one I look after has like

eighty thousand dollars worth of CXX options on it.

That's an eight. That's seven hundred eight hundred thousand dollar car.

What do you think, Paul?

You know, I just looked up on classic dot com.

There are thirty two Estes on the market.

Right now, that's globally, though, right?

Globally, but still for a that's a lot.

That's a lot.

And I think to you know, we have data that that I bet you if you look at it

and really do some math on it shows you what happens.

It starts with a nine and seven point nine, seven point two.

Cara, you know, RS four point oh, then you have the nine eleven are

then you have the sport classic sport classic.

I think is the one that's going to get lost in all this.

It's just too soon to the ST, but I would say you look at nine

eleven are and RS four point oh, and those two cars come out.

No one, you know, big demand, then no one cares, and then it's going to take time.

And I would say if you have an ST and they're all, like you said, coming off lease.

I think you're keeping that car because I think right now

the only motivation to sell it, there's too many on the market

is what's it going to cost to get the new next greatest thing?

And if if a client called me and said, what do you do?

I said, you know, if you got someone will pay 700 and you're happy with that

or whatever price you're happy, either sell it now or keep it 10 years.

I think it 10 years.

This is a good hold for a 10 year car.

Well, good hold for the sake of a car, but good hold compared to

if you put the 700 grand in the S and P 500.

You're right. Not a good hold. Not a good hold.

In the end, as I always tell my clients, please don't use the I word.

It's not an investment.

That's right. Well, you know what?

You just you guys gave me a lot of great ideas for the spreadsheet.

So maybe we're going to work on the perfect like five car Porsche collection.

You know, you can go. Oh, that'd be a good one.

Yeah, you're going to win on that one. That's the reason you like it.

So maybe we can do that. Maybe we do the modern cars.

What do you guys think? Like so help me define it.

And this way will the, you know, the fans and the listeners

and the viewers will know what to look forward to.

Perfect five car collection help us build our list.

Message us on Instagram.

But you guys want to put it like a back date from what year forward?

What do you guys think?

I think I would just do all of it.

No, it's because you're going to be cranking around the 1950s.

I'm going to pick weird stuff that you guys aren't going to like.

If we're talking like if I when I look at Porsche, it's 1999 and newer.

And that's new Porsche.

Let's do water. How about we just do watercooled?

Watercooled Porsche.

And then you got to pick a price cap.

Yeah, screw that.

It's the perfect five GT one street versions.

Oh, shit. See, Casey's going to cheat.

So you're right. We have to put a price cap.

Yeah, we do.

All right. So what's 300, 300,000.

MSRP or market market.

I think you should do five million.

Of course, you have cars, five.

No, OK. All right. All right, smart asses.

Here's what we'll do.

Let's put a total cap on how much money you can spend.

A total cap.

Your aunt Betty just kicked the bucket

and she said you can inherit X amount of money,

but you have to spend it all on porches

and they have to be watercooled.

So what's the amount of money that Betty just left for you?

Just pick a number.

We're not going to agree.

Half million.

I think we have to work at it

because I think you have to look at, like,

I think what the listeners and viewers are looking at is, like,

five hundred thousand, they might get that.

They might get that in inheritance.

And what are you going to build with that?

Like, you're going to have to make some compromise.

Are you guys accepting five hundred grand?

It's going to be tough, but yeah, we'll do it.

Are we going to do five cars?

Do you now want to limit it to three

since Paul put us on a budget?

Well, let's do three

because five is going to take us a lot longer.

It's he's right. Casey's right.

It'll take us.

I'll take up the whole show with freaking five.

And no one can cheat and just pick one car.

I'm mostly talking to myself.

No one can cheat and just pick one car for five hundred grand.

Yeah, one car.

We'll have one car.

Then you'll have two, you know,

nine, eight, one boxers and call it a day.

And the budget will be blown by two.

Well, so hopefully you've enjoyed the podcast today.

We enjoy doing the podcast probably too much.

This podcast for me has become a great escape

because now I can watch YouTube car videos

guilt free.

And when my daughter looks over my shoulder

trying to bust me for screwing around

and watching car videos,

I rationalized and explained to her

what that is an automotive journalist now.

And so he's just doing his homework.

Now go do your homework and leave me alone

so I can watch more videos.

So thank you.

Thank you for.

She's not listening.

Thank you for continuing to support the channel.

And I'm sorry we didn't get to viewer comments and listens.

There were some fan or I'm sorry comments

and Instagram and questions.

There were some great questions.

I promise you'll get to them.

Matter of fact, we'll get to them first

on next week's podcast.

We are getting such great fan feedback.

It's really wonderful.

And you guys are calling us out

and we say something wrong

and you're giving us information

to make our jib jab better.

I totally and completely love

that you're taking the time to do that.

Message us over on Instagram

that there's something you like,

something you didn't like, whatever, whatever.

Help us make this so that it is

the number one automotive podcast

for obviously our little niche

which is mostly portion sports car fans.

But in the meantime,

thank you for listening to this week's full throttle talk

and thank you guys.

And let's just, if you guys have time,

let's have a five minute meeting.

But in the meantime, have a fantastic week.

We'll talk to you guys next week.

Porsche Has Lost Its Mind, Auction Meltdowns & The $250K Dream-Car Cage Match

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