Racing Back Episode 58 – Maria KöpfRacing Back · Jul 17, 2026
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Term
grom pre-motorcycle racing
“Grom” is slang for small, beginner-style motorcycles. The episode is talking about early racing steps—how riders get started before moving up to bigger, more serious motorcycle races.
Maria Costello is a racer mentioned because she was seriously hurt during sidecar practice at the Isle of Man TT. The hosts are sending her support and hoping for her recovery.
Topic
TT
“TT” is short for the Isle of Man TT, a world-famous motorcycle race. It’s known for different classes of bikes and for being held on challenging roads.
The Isle of Man TT is a famous motorcycle race. “Sidecar practice” means the teams that race with a sidecar (a passenger seat attached to the bike) go out to practice and get the bike working right before the main event.
The Isle of Man is an island where one of the most famous motorcycle races happens. The TT uses roads that are closed for the event, which is part of why it’s so intense.
Beryl Swain was an early motorcycle racer who broke barriers in the Isle of Man TT. The episode says she was the first woman allowed to race in the TT, and later her ability to race depended on getting the right license.
Weight limitations are rules that restrict minimum or maximum rider/body weight in certain racing contexts. The discussion here is about how such rules were applied to women riders, including the idea that women had to compensate for perceived disadvantages via additional weight.
Grand Prix refers to top-level motorcycle road racing events run under standardized rules, historically including the premier classes that lead to world championships. In this context, it’s used to describe the highest tier of competition where women riders were (and often weren’t) allowed to race.
Hill climbs are motorsport events where cars or motorcycles race up a steep course against the clock, usually on a road or track that climbs a hill. They’re popular in many regions because they’re accessible locally and emphasize traction, power delivery, and rider control.
Hockenheim is a famous race track in Germany. It’s hosted big motorcycle and car races, and its layout has included stadium-style sections and tight turns.
A chicane is a section of the track where you have to weave through a couple of turns. It makes the cars slow down and handle more precisely instead of going flat out.
Term
stadium
The “stadium” part of a track is the section near the grandstands. It usually has tighter corners, so racing feels more intense and close to the crowd.
Person
Fausta Grissini
Fausta Grissini is a motorcycle racer. In this story, she was involved in an on-track moment where another rider pushed her aside near the end of the race.
Person
Mika Hekin
The hosts mention Mika Hekin as someone she raced against when they were kids. The name sounds like it may be a misspelling of Mika Häkkinen, a famous Finnish racer.
Disqualified means the rider is removed from the race results. It usually happens when officials find a rules problem, like using something that isn’t allowed.
Term
dodgy fuel
“Dodgy fuel” means the fuel wasn’t allowed under the race rules. If a team uses fuel that gives an unfair advantage, officials can disqualify the rider.
They talk about a confusing story about why a rider’s license was taken away. One person says it came from a big F1 figure, but the motorcycle governing body couldn’t find the paperwork.
Bernie Ecclestone was a powerful person behind Formula 1. Here, the guest says Taru believed she got a letter from him that took away her racing license.
“125cc” refers to the engine size of the race bikes, measured in cubic centimeters. The 125cc class is a category where riders race motorcycles with that smaller engine size.
This describes a motorcycle with a 500cc engine that uses a two-stroke design. Two-stroke engines were common in older racing and can feel very punchy.
The “500cc World Championship” refers to the top-level Grand Prix motorcycle racing series for 500cc bikes. In that era, it was the premier class, and riders’ results there were the biggest measure of success.
Daytona is a famous racing track in the U.S. Motorcycle racers often go there to set records and prove themselves.
Term
250
“250” means the bike’s engine class is about 250cc. It’s a step up from smaller classes like 125cc.
Place
Brands Hut
This is likely “Brands Hatch,” a well-known race track in England. The speaker is saying her appearance there got a lot of attention.
Place
Nagaro
The speaker is talking about a French race track where she struggled to qualify and then later qualified for the 500cc race. The exact track name is unclear in the transcript.
A “paddock” is the backstage area at a race where teams work and riders hang out. “World Superbike” is a top-level motorcycle racing series, and they’re saying they first noticed her there.
Topic
racing in the wet
They’re talking about how rain changes motorcycle racing. Grip and passing are harder, and the right tires matter a lot.
Term
slicks in the wet
They’re saying that in the rain, the tires can lose grip so much that it feels like you’re on slicks (tires with no tread). That means the car can slide more than you’d expect.
Wet tires are special tires made for rainy weather. They have tread and rubber that help them grip the road when it’s wet, instead of slipping like normal tires might.
Some countries have more resources for racing than others—like better training and more support. That can affect which riders end up being the fastest and most successful.
SuperSport 300 is a motorcycle racing category for smaller bikes, often used to develop younger talent. The rules are strict so the competition is more about riding skill than just having the biggest engine.
Moto3 is the lower-tier class in Grand Prix motorcycle racing for younger riders and smaller bikes. Many riders use it as a starting point before moving up to bigger categories.
Racing rules sometimes force riders to run with extra weight. If they add weight, the bike feels heavier, so it’s harder to accelerate and the speed usually drops.
Moto E is a motorcycle racing series where the bikes are electric. Because the bikes feel and brake differently than gas bikes, riders have to learn the new technique.
Car
Yamaha R7
The Yamaha R7 is a popular motorcycle model that many riders use for sport riding. Here, it’s mentioned to highlight that riding technique changes when you switch to a heavier electric bike.
A mixed class means men and women racing together in the same event. The point being made is that it can teach riders a lot because they’re competing against a wider range of opponents.
Copyrights are legal rules that control who can use someone else’s creative material. For documentaries, you often have to get permission to use old clips or recordings before you can edit them in.
Archival material is previously recorded or preserved content—like old footage, photographs, documents, or recordings—used as sources in a documentary. It often requires research and rights clearance before it can be incorporated into the final edit.
A “gendered motorcycle” means motorcycles have been treated in society as belonging to one gender more than another. The episode is talking about how images and culture can make motorcycles seem “for men” even though anyone can ride them.
The Cold War was a long period when the US and its allies were basically competing with the Soviet Union and its allies without direct full-scale war. It affected everyday life and even sports, including racing stories and rivalries between East and West.
Concept
defected to the West
A defection is when someone leaves their side or country and goes to the other side. In this story, it matters because it can transfer skills and knowledge that affect how racing develops.
MotoGP is the top level of motorcycle racing. The “riders” are the professional racers competing in that series, and the “summer break” is the pause in the season where changes can happen before the next races.
An entry list is the official list of who’s going to race in an event. It helps you see the lineup before the race starts.
LIVE
Well, here we go, racing back. I've got a red nose and I'm tired. Red nose, I've just
come back from Sicily, tired because I stayed up all night watching England beat Mexico
in the World Cup, but that's another story. We have somebody we've been
waiting to come on the program for so long. Maria Kov, she is producing a
documentary about women in racing and we're going to really concentrate on
women in grom pre-motorcycle racing and I can tell you there are plenty of them.
I think before we start we're going to dedicate this program to Maria Costello,
obviously, who was so badly injured in the TT sidecar practice in the Isle of Man
and our thoughts are with her and we wish her well. Right, Maria, I think...
Thanks for having me, I'm so excited. Not so many girls have been on this show, many women.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a half-breaker again.
As a young lad, I sat with my dad watching black-and-white television, watching a lady in black
leathers go round the cycle track at Herne Hill on a 50cc item on television and they
told me she was going to race in the TT in the Isle of Man. Her name, Beryl Swain.
Well, thanks for giving the keyword. It's so interesting and so much fun to start with Beryl Swain
because she's such a trailblazer and such a key figure because she was literally, she was the
first woman to be allowed in a TT race right in 1962, which was also the year the 50cc class was
introduced. So you mentioned she was, from what I learned, doing all sorts of local races here
and there, but this was really the first time in the TT, which was by then still a world champion
class. And she finished the race, didn't she? She finished. She finished, I think in 22nd out of
25, but no matter what she finished. And she was determined to go back. But the year after, and it
was also the first year she got an official FIM license, which is a big issue all over, you know,
the decades. When do we get licenses and when do they not get license and when are they put back?
Because this is also what I learned would happen to Beryl that she, she raced for one year and then
her license was not renewed. Because I believe she wanted to ride about 350 or 500 at the TT
the year after, but they said no. They let women side car passers still, but they wouldn't let them
race bikes themselves. I mean, it's unbelievable in the modern day, but that's how it was.
Exactly. Going through the diving into this history, which is so interesting, you know,
this is just a recurring issue. It's the weight issue, you know, because women have to apologize
for my help. I'm getting everything right with my German accent and my facility. It's the weight
limitations, which is always an issue. Also with the extra weight women have to put on. And it's in
those days, it was the question of, you know, the licenses, which was not granted. So in a way,
she was, it's quite amazing that she was given a license in 1962 as the first woman officially by
the FIM, but then it was revoked the year after when she started to get on in a bigger class. And
from what I read, she must have been so angry because she wrote a huge appeal. And I think she
psychopathic just remained, didn't they? There was plenty of good women psychopathic just riding
in Grand Prix. Definitely. Jules, you were just going to say something? I was just going to say,
we should declare Maria's interest here on this isn't just an academic interest you have in
women in the sport. I've been passionate and I love motorcycles all my life, you know, and I
think this all started because we had a, where I grew up, it's a Bavarian village, and we had one
of those hill climbs because there were plenty of them in the in the 70s and 80s. And that's what
my brother and I, what we grew up with my brother and I doing this film together. So we've both,
this is, I guess it always starts with some something you experience in your childhood,
either it's an event or you have a dad or friends of your fathers who sort of like put the seed
in your head. And so this was also what it was like for me, you know, riding a motorcycle,
I just love motorcycles. I love to ride them. I love to watch them. It's a passion.
And you're making your, your, your documentary maker?
I was a film producer for a long time in feature films. But this is going to be my debut as a
documentary filmmaker. So we're, I'm doing this together with my brother, we're a co team who
is equally passionate about the subject. And you have a working title? The first ones,
the history. So currently we've completed a couple of interviews, we're in the state of
doing research of developing and pre-production and of course financing, which is a big issue.
The usual, the usual problem. Yeah, Nick, this sounds worryingly professional.
It does. Oh my goodness. Could you, could you come and help us?
So there's quite a gap then. And again, Jules and I can relate to this. We were at Hockenheim,
was it 1989 when Tarrenay led the race, the 125cc Grand Prix. You started? Oh my god.
We were both there, weren't we, Jules? She led in, Hockenheim was, you know, that great
Wagnerian oval, the twiddly bits in the middle. Then it was like a mile out to the Oscurb and
a mile back again, via a chicane. And it was a tight right hander into the stadium. And apparently
she shoved Fausta Grissini out of the way at the last chicane and led into the stadium. And I have
never, ever heard a noise like it on a race track. She's such an amazing woman.
Yeah, she finished seven, but it was a remarkable, you know, this wasn't a, and this was not
a one-off. She was genuinely quick and you knew she was quick because other 125 riders
moaned about how fast her engine was. So you knew, you know, it was always the strongest year
in 1991. I mean, she started out in kart racing. She raced against Mika Hekin and we probably know
that she beat twice as a kid. And beat them. She was the champion in the finish. So when she beat
Mika Hekin and twice at the age of 11. But then she raced with some with some substances that
were not allowed. So she was disqualified. As is usually in this level, it's dodgy fuel.
And started getting into motorcycle racing. Yeah, with great, great. Was it injury that
really forced her? I mean, there was no regulations and she was allowed to race. And
I think it's injury in the end caught up with her, didn't it? She had an injury in 1992,
quite bad one. She broke both her ankles. And it's, you know, we went to Oulu last year to meet
her in the south of Finland. That's where she lives. Yeah. Nita Korhonen from FIM, who's also
Finnish lady. She made the connection and she helped us with the translation. And we had this
fantastic location where we met Taru. It was in the original garage by Jan Nossarinen, who is
a local hero in Finland. You're talking about God. It's such an unbelievable place because his
brother keeps the original garage, all the motorcycles, with the letters, with articles,
with everything. And it's from the outside, you would never anticipate it. It's like in
another garage, you go down there. It's like a vault that opens up. This whole experience
was so amazing in itself. A very nice, a very lovely man who led us into his treasure. And
that's where he met Taru. Wow. What is Taru's view on her career and what is she doing now?
It's a very, it's a bit of a moment when she talks about it, you know, she gets quite sad
because her career ended in 1992. And her license, she said she got a letter directly from Bernie
Ecclestone, revoking or taking back her license so she couldn't race anymore.
But it's something we were at FIM last year and talked to them and they said they were digging
in their vault and, but they couldn't find anything. So it's not really official what happened. So
it doesn't have the letter anymore. So there's no proof about what happened. But obviously somebody
must have taken away her license. FIM says at the time it was mostly the
local motorcycle author of organizations who issued the licenses. So probably it was them.
But then they started saying it was a letter from Ecclestone himself. So what's
Yes, you both, you know, and we don't want anybody as long as there is no proof, but there is a
certain mystery, you know. Yeah, yeah. And it was Julian, sorry. She was, I mean, let's,
for younger viewers, let's emphasize again just how quick Karoo and he was. She was at least
podium fast, at least. And if you got your newspaper on a Wednesday and read that she won a 125 race,
you would not have been shocked. No, I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah.
Yeah, we move on. Tamoko Egata, I mean, the Japanese lady, she had some decent results and she
gained in the 125cc class. Yeah, she had her seventh place in Brune. She was doing really well.
I mean, she was quite successful in Japan. I mean, starting in the 90s,
she was always in 91 and 93. She was always in the local championships in the top 10.
Quite successful lady and moved to 125 in 1994 and then Brune. And so she was the first woman
really to score points at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And she was very much a product of the Japanese
system at the time. Wasn't she? There was a lot of Japanese 125 race and the Japanese team for her
to ride in as well. And she's still, she's, you know, she has a driving school for women. She used
to do it to have this together with her sister. So they're training young racists and we're in
touch with her. She sent us a very nice greeting for the documentary. So she's training young
racists and she's very determined. She's, by the way, Tomoko is now Tomo. So she transitioned
into a male identity. All right. And she's quite determined to support young women and to
one day bring a woman to the young girl to the WCR races. That's her big ambition.
Right. Right. Now the 500 class, nobody would expect a woman and please, I don't take me wrong
here to ride a 500cc two-stroke motorcycle. But a Californian, she came and tried and she,
Gina Bovar, I was around at the time. Boy, what a determined lady. She'd had, I think, success in
American Daytona, but she came to ride in the 500cc World Championship on a Yamaha.
Yeah. She started in the 70s and in the U.S. with 125 and 250 mostly Daytona set records,
you know, the fastest rookie when she arrived. And then she switched to the 500cc class. And again,
I think this was 1989 or so in Daytona where she also set a rookie record on the 500cc class.
And she was invited by a British promoter to come to England in 1990.
To Brands Hut, was it? It was Brands, wasn't it? Yeah. And it caused quite a stir in English
and English racing. Remember that? Yeah. Were you there? Could well have been. Yeah. I tell you
when I was there was 1982, Nagaro in France, because she'd had terrible trouble qualifying.
And I mean, the level of competition then on those 500cc was, it's just look who was riding at the
time, the Spencers, the Roberts, the Sheens, the Ballingtons, the Mimolas, they were all riding
there. And she had used to have trouble qualifying, but at Nagaro when a lot of the riders were
few to ride on safety grounds, she actually qualified for the 500cc race. I think was it
her only 500cc Grand Prix? I think so. But what I learned, she was she was touring as a privateer
in 1991 and 1992 all over Europe, trying to qualify as she just described. And Nagaro 1992 was the
finally the race where she qualified and where she participated. In between she was also 125cc
in Hockenheim. Oh, really? I'm not really sure. And that's one thing I want to ask her. We've been
in touch with her, but we have not had time to do a thorough interview with her. A lovely lady,
by the way, it was so fun to meet her on Zoom. So there was this one time in Hockenheim in 1991
where she was 125cc. I haven't found if there was a sponsor or how this happened,
but mostly when she was in Europe, she tried to qualify in the 500cc race. That's true.
Incredibly brave thing to do, wasn't it, to come here at the height of the two-stroke,
these fire machines. In that field, my God. Just imagine the amount of determination you needed
to have. Trying to break into that class and coming up with the money. She mortgaged her house
in order to be able to come to Europe and to do this tour. Unbelievable. And she's in her mid-70s
now and she's still riding her motorcycle. She lives near the plan is to visit her. She lives near
Daytona, where she visits regularly. So go a little bit of motorcycle riding with her.
Very nice woman. I would think she is the only woman that I can remember riding in the senior
class, in the in the premier class. Yes, still. We move on to, let's have a think,
Kacha Ponson. She rode 250cc. She was in the Aprilia team, wasn't she, with Jeremy Williams,
I remember. And I remember she came to the motorcycle show in England. It caused quite a stir and
Sky Television came and did a big feature on her and everything else. Yeah.
Well, I'm sure it was quite impressive. Katya on her Suzuki on a 250 with a long,
blonde braid. That's right. Yeah. So we first saw her in the sound of singles in the World
Superbike Paddock. Oh, really? I think her dad was Suzuki Germany or something, but she
had a very interesting and she was quick. She was extremely competitive. She got a few injuries,
she took them, she recovered, she came back, she was quick. And then somebody obviously with
a decent brain for promotion said, oh, let's see if she can ride a 250 or not. Yeah. And she can.
I mean, I think the one thing you would say about Katya was that she wasn't desperately technical,
but she was brave and she was talented. I mean, a mechanic, one of them German
fellow racers once told me, because Katya was always very good in the wet.
Yeah. You said, oh, we just told her that the wet, the wet tires are like slicks in the wet.
Katya carry on, you know, okay. And she scored. It's also a family story because her father was
provoked for Suzuki Germany. Yes. Yes. That's how she, she really got it into her, through the
family side. And yes, another story of a first woman, she was the first woman to compete in the
250 class. Ah, there we go. So we've got, and she scored. She scored points in Mugello in 2001.
Yes. Yeah. And, and she was, oh, yeah. And she was always, you know, she was always around
the lower end of the points on a motorbike. It was, yeah, yeah. Was Mugello a wet?
Teammate to Jeremy Williams, a comedy interesting as well. Yes. Many, many reasons. Yeah. I remember
there was a wet race, wasn't there? It might have been the one you're talking about where she's
scored points. And she was hunting down David Dahaya. Oh, right. Yeah. Spaniard from rural
Almeria area. Everybody was vastly with what a fact that Dahaya being overtaken by a woman would
have been a really entertaining sight to see. She was saying in one interview, it was not always
nice to race with the boys, you know, sometimes those were the days where you still had keys in
your ignitions or sometimes they were trying to fetch the key, the ignition from the key from
the ignition just to remember, you know. Yeah. I remember Dennis Noyes saying after the,
Dahaya just beat her to the line. Yeah. Noyes said, that's the quickest God I'm lost like Dahaya's
ever done. And just going back to Gina, how did she find the reaction of these stars, absolute
superstars of Grand Prix racing when she turned up to race against them? Did they help her? Did they
not laugh at her, but just think what's she doing? We only started talking, you know,
we've only just met, so she's still in the next research area. So we have not really gotten so
deep into her experience in those private years. But all I can say, she sounds like she very much
enjoyed it and didn't feel like she got too much stones, many stones put in her wheels,
Mr. In German. Yeah, yeah. We know Katja got shoved about by the boys. Yeah, she did. Yes,
definitely. Yeah. I think Carrie really got a bit of, they didn't treat her delicately,
let's put it that way. No, definitely not. No, no. Tarot was like, I just say, I love this life. And I
had my, she couldn't really afford a mechanic. So sometimes she would just be on her own with
her trailer, you know, imagine having your motorcycle on your trailer as a woman and
going to the paddocks hanging out with the boys. But she said, I had so much fun. It was my best news.
May I tell you, the paddocks in that era were a lot of fun as well.
It was a bit wild west, yeah. It was a bit wild. It was a really good disc, wild west,
was a perfect description. We've had people on this program, no names mentioned,
very much part of that wild west. Can we, can I leap off the chronological thing for the moment?
Of course you can. I'll ask a question about the Maria Herrera and the world champion, the women's
championship in the superbike paddock. As an old slightly lefty liberal chap, I can't
work out whether I'm all in favor of a women only championship or whether I think it's a
patronizing load of old, what's it? I swing between, I'm not sure really what to think.
I think it's all about visibility, you know, and there's, now we have like a couple of women,
but it's like so many women on two hands, you know, over the last 40 years. And it's much about
visibility, you know, and just giving these women a chance to race and to show themselves and to
prove themselves and to get the visibility and the exposure and to really to have a training
ground for themselves. And it's a real competitive race, you know. Oh yeah, I've seen it. It's a
start more to give more women the chance to really to race and have this exposure and to
participate in something like this. It's really, as you know, as FAM said, and they really started
from the scratch in the first years, they were really looking at how many races were in different
countries, you know, just trying to put together everything. And it's really amazing how it's been
growing, you know, and already over the last two years, I think you can tell how much professionalism
there is, you know, and how dedicated races they are. I think it's nothing patronizing at all,
it's for the visibility and it's a good, it's a good class, you know, and it's all about visibility
and building something from there, you know, and of course, hopefully there will be more women in
all the other classes in the future. And as Maria Herrera puts it, one day there will be a multi-GP
racer. I think we know how fast Maria Herrera is. Oh my god, Anna Carrasco, I mean,
and that is like good result in a moment three.
Who led the way, inevitably Spanish, as is the way.
Yes, I mean, and it's turning a little bit into a Spanish league, the WCR, because, you know,
the top racers are Spanish. And there are reasons for that, which is to be discussed, you know,
there's a really an imbalance between the nations because there's a much stronger support system
in Spain than in a lot of other European countries. But, you know, you named, I mean, Anna Carrasco,
I mean, she's the first and so far only world champion in a SuperSport 300 and in general,
in a world championship, that's an amazing achievement.
And she was, I remember her in Moto3.
She ate the Valencia one year? Yes, she was, I think.
She got bullied a little bit in the last couple of laps.
She was only riding a Rookie's bike. It was an absolute bicycle she was riding.
There's a really interesting Spanish documentary about her, you know, following her over 90 minutes
in her career. And you can really tell, you know, when she was a young girl and, you know, like,
racing with the boys, how tough it must have been sometimes, you know, because you do get a lot
of antagonisms and it wasn't always easy, you know. And then she was so successful in the
SuperSport 300 and in the middle of the season, and that's something I really don't understand,
and maybe you can explain this to me, why would they change in the middle of the season the weight
regulation? I mean, all of a sudden she took off, that's great. Good question.
I mean, she was leading the races sometimes by, you see it in the, it's like seconds, you know,
then they put on extra weight. And of course, immediately the speed slowed down because it's
so much harder. And this has been so difficult for so many female races, you know, the weight
limitations and the regulations. Yeah, certainly in that SuperSport class, she was the one with
brains. Because you watched her in the last couple, when all the rest are banging their heads
against each other, she was just sneaking into the right track position to put a couple of moves
in the, she was an extremely clever racer in my opinion. And of course, as a lead racer, you're
faster in the, in the street, you know, and, but she obviously, she has had the technique for the,
for you doing the bend, the curves through why change it in the middle of a season. And then
it was very narrow that she won the world championship, but I'm very good for her.
On the subject of WCR, there are new names giving Maria Herrera. Yes, there are. That is,
if that hadn't happened, I'd have been saying, we're wasting it, you know, this is not turning
out well. But there was some very fast, extremely competitive women giving Maria a hard time.
Did you see the last race 25 when Paula Ramos also Spanish and very young, she's 18, she all of a
sudden she appeared and she, she won by, I don't remember, two or three seconds. Yeah, she was a
big gap, wasn't it? It was an enormous gap. And now she's in third because it's of course not as
consistent. She's a very young racer, but she's amazingly competitive and a very good, a very,
a great talent. Can you see, and is these, I'm sure you know what the question is going to be,
moving into the world championship, not the, yeah, the main world championship, you know,
the motor two, motor three or motor GP. Is there a path? Well, I think the path is and
that's the something I think it was interesting to talk with Maria Herrera about this because she
said every class has a different technique, you know, and you need to get into it and you have
to get used to the bikes and there is a path and I think the path is to WCR is definitely a very
important step just to get, you know, the women out there and to get the exposure and the exercise
and the training and the being there in the races and facing the competition. And I'm sure there
is a way to some of them to move on to motor three or to motor two. Carrasco and Herrera.
What do you think? They've already been there. Yeah, I mean, Maria's great problems. Every time
she was looking like she was just about to really hit the front, she got a bad injury. Yeah. And she
did that several times. She got, she came back and you thought, Oh, great. And she got herself back to
competitor. So then bang, another enormous crash. And she also really enjoyed riding the Moto E,
which I think, unfortunately, what is no longer, no longer in place. It's like, it's a complete
difference. Of course, these bikes are over 240 kilos, you know, a completely different technique to
riding the Yamaha R7. It's all about learning the technique for the different weight and the
different brakes. What would have these pioneers that we've been discussing, what would they have
made of it now, a women's world championship? Where, yeah, they, I think they'd be pretty
proud of what they did to, to, to start the building. Not all of them are so, for instance,
Katja Pönskön, she was like, it's not really necessary, you know, women should compete against
men. That's where the real competition lies. That's maybe also Julian, what you were hinting at,
you know, is it just a playground? Of course, it's not, you know. I don't know. I can see
both sides of the argument. Yeah. And also Maria Costello, who we should not forget to talk about.
She was also, I think she's become more and more supportive of the WCR. Chloe Jones did
really well last year, and also she has a good season this year. But Maria was also saying, you
know, it's more important to race with the, you know, in the real, in the mixed class, because
that's where you get the experience. And that's where you really learn how to become a racer.
That's two opinions, you know. Yeah, yeah. Nick, we have four and a half minutes left.
Right. But it's always, it's important to have more because it's, you know, just with these few,
you know, there's very much harder for them to succeed. And you have to have a much bigger
variety of different races. Yes, yes. That's why the WCR is so important.
How many rounds are there? How many rounds at the moment?
The good question. I think it's 20. Oh, golly. So it's a fair old size champion.
Two races a week. Yeah, yeah. It's two more. It's eight. It's eight races.
Yeah, yeah. I think Bronyton is just coming up here. Right. We should ask about Maria's film,
and when will they do that? The documentary. Well, I do it. Let's just say one or two. Somebody put
a voice to the, a little bit of it. But let's just say one or two were worse
of, you know, of admiration to Maria Costello, you know, who is just the trailblazer. I mean,
racing the TT in itself is such an incredible achievement, you know, and it's, my heart is
broken to learn that she's so badly injured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the documentary, it's not an easy
task, is it? Perhaps actually filming it and interviews is the easiest part. It's all the,
other stuff, copyrights and everything else that's difficult, isn't it?
Yeah, of course, we're doing a lot of research because especially like with Gina Bovell and
Tago Vinde, you know, there's fabulous archival material, which, which has been researched.
And but of course, you need to acquire it. So just the editing is going to be the next process,
but you also need to find an overall, you can just put one after interview after another,
you have to find a general narration. And I'm very happy that Nick joined in one interview
telling us a little bit about the history, you know, and, and it's, but we found out that,
you know, really making as intimate portraits as possible, because just showing these characters
and these women is just so interesting, you know, and to show what drives them.
Yeah, what does it really need? What does it really take to be a motorcycle, right? So it's a
special breed, no matter if you're a man or a woman, it's a special kind of, it's a special kind of
people. Yeah. Yeah. And any ideas on that? It's interesting. Sorry. It's interesting to talk
also about all the stuff behind it. You know, I found a scholar who is in University of Glasgow,
Esperanza Miyake, and she's wrote a book about the gendered motorcycle.
Ah, we've had great fun talking to each other because, you know, motorcycles are much more
heavy and male branded than cars, for instance, and she, she's a visual, she's a scientist and
doing research on how did this happen? You know, why is the motorcycle so much more male branded
than compared to other vehicles cars? So there's a lot of, a lot of background that's also interesting.
You know, it was such a long time, the wild one, you know, it was always cool men on motorcycles
and sexy women like Pamela Anderson, you know, but some slowly things are starting to change.
Yes. Yeah. And any ideas on dates that were, you may be of the release, the documentary?
Hopefully next year, we'll have a longer financing. It's, for instance, a lot of TV station
consider this a very niche subject because nobody knows the women of that's what we're making the
film, you know. So we're hoping to, we're getting, hoping to get some support also from the industry
and that's what we're talking right now. So keep your fingers crossed. We are in our last minute.
So let us say thank you to Maria for a fascinating conversation.
Thanks for having me.
We hope all those obstacles are easy for you to overcome.
Here, here. We've got our fingers crossed for you. I can absolutely promise. Thank you so much.
And as we say, we're going to dedicate the program to Maria Costello.
Thank you. Love goes to Maria.
Well, I think we're becoming a historical website rather than a racing website.
But what an insight and what a future. And boy, I'm looking forward to that documentary.
It's fascinating stuff. I mean, we only scratched the surface, you know, in Grand Prix racing.
There is women in sidecar racing, women in speedway, you know, going back pre-war,
there is a lot of untold history there. There is. There is. And yeah. And some very,
very good riders who competed very well with the men in the smaller classes.
Could they ever compete in the bigger classes? Probably not, to be honest with you.
The Jeanne Bouvard was the only one who really tried it. She struggled. Yeah.
But it would be interesting to see. When I never thought that Maria Herrera would be
on the same lap as people in the Formula E. Yeah, yeah. Big and heavy.
Big heavy bikes. Or easy to ride. Yeah.
She didn't threaten Podium, but she was, you know, two miles that way, was she?
No, she wasn't. She wasn't. It would be interesting.
And again, as it was with Matt Oxley,
so much about the horror, the whole history and fabric of the sport. And I myself find that.
As Matt said, I enjoy the history as much as I do the racing. And I'm one who is exactly the same.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the social history.
Yeah. It's any sport and that includes bike racing does not happen in isolation from the world around
it. No, it's it's so often reflects of what is happening at the time, doesn't it? And you know,
I'm a big football man. And my god, he football certainly reflects of what is happening at the time.
Any sport does. Yeah, it does. A motorcycle racing.
Right from the ancient Olympics. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Anybody having a punch up, you know, a seizure of sparta or something.
It's not. Yeah, yeah. The Olympics, you know, yeah.
It's, you know, it needs and it's, it gives you a perspective to look back on things like
the history of women in racing as you start with Maria and the week before the
proper Cold War. And the history of two strokes in many ways.
Absolutely.
Two strokes in Grand Prix racing and it all down to a small, I won't say shed, but
very nearly nearly shed in East Germany and a rider who defected to the West.
And the principles were put together by an absolute genius of an engineer.
I don't like using the word genius to, you know, it gets overused. But in this case,
doesn't it just, yeah. In this case, it is absolutely the correct word.
Yeah. Well, there we are. We've got plenty more coming up. Summer break for the MotoGP
riders. I suspect by the time we come back, more changes will be made to the rider.
I can have a look at the entry. I can have a look at the entry list soon and try to work out
who's who, what's what. But yeah, as Matt said two weeks ago, yeah, the biggest change in the
history of sport with everything. Yeah, it's going to be very interesting.
So you want the tickets for those events next year. There you go. It's going to be very interesting.
Don't forget motorsporttickets.com. That helps us. The Q code coming up on the screen for
all motorcycle events and Formula One. It's very important for us and Jules, as we always say,
any help we will accept with both hands. Yes, press those buttons. Subscribe,
please, folks, to your favorite platform where you get your podcasts. Or even if you're feeling
particularly free spirited and generous, join the racing back paddock club. It'll cost you
the price of a coffee, but you get you get our words of wisdom a day early.
Wow. That's got to be worth the money.
And there are, you know, there's chat rooms and other little little bonuses as well.
Brilliant. And don't forget, as we said at the start of the program, and we're going to end the
program today, that this program is dedicated to Maria Costello. Our thoughts and our prayers
are with her and we never, never change that.
About this episode
Maria Köpf’s story anchors a wide-ranging look at women’s motorcycle racing—starting with Beryl Swain’s 1962 TT breakthrough and the way FIM licensing rules could be granted and then revoked. The hosts connect that history to Köpf’s Grand Prix moments, including a Hockenheim incident and a disqualification tied to non-allowed substances. They also zoom out to the broader barriers of weight limits, the two-stroke era, and why visibility through platforms like WCR matters.
This weeks episode is dedicated to Maria Costello and all women in racing.
In this episode of Racing Back, Nick Harris and Julian Ryder are joined by filmmaker and documentary producer Maria Köpf for a thought-provoking conversation about the role of women in MotoGP and Grand Prix motorcycle racing.
Maria discusses her forthcoming documentary and the fascinating stories that inspired it, highlighting the women whose passion, determination and contributions have helped shape the sport throughout its history. Together, Nick, Jules and Maria explore a side of MotoGP that is often overlooked but is every bit as important to the championship's remarkable story.
From pioneering figures to the continuing evolution of the sport, this episode is packed with insight, history and fascinating conversation, offering a fresh perspective on the people who have helped make MotoGP what it is today.
A must-listen for anyone interested in the rich history and future of motorcycle racing.
