Ram CEO Tim Kuniskis on NASCAR and the brand's big January 1 surprise

Ding, ding, indeed, welcome to the gas, the official podcast of American Cars and Racing.

I'm Gary Gastelou.

This is the Gary and Alex show, and with me providing directions from his trusty, Rand

McNally paper map, because he thinks GPS is reading his mind is my co-host, Alex Nunez.

Alex, I'd like to tell you you're wrong about the GPS, but I have no evidence to the contrary,

that might actually be the case.

I'll use whatever mapping technology is available, Gary, to be honest.

Listen, we've got a big show today, so let's get right to it.

Later on, we're going to be talking about the new Jeep Recon electric SUV, some of the

other stuff from the LA Auto Show, and Chevy's controversial new NASCAR Camaro.

But we have some other NASCAR news to get to first.

Alex, the last couple of weeks, I feel like every show we talk about Rams return to NASCAR,

there's just so much news coming out, isn't there?

It's a big deal, new manufacturer, well returning manufacturer, but new manufacturer

and NASCAR is always a big deal, so I think we're going to be talking about it a lot

all the way up to the season kickoff next year.

Well, there's more news this week, and it looks like there's going to be guaranteed

news every race week because of a new program they've got going on.

And with us to talk about that, we have the CEO of Ram himself and the head

of Stellanus' American Brands, who happens to be the same person.

It's Tim Kineskis, and he joins us today.

Welcome to the show, Tim.

Hey, Gary.

How are you?

Thanks for having me on.

So a couple of weeks ago, we had the first driver,

Collie Grayson, signed to the Ram Trucks, Trucks Serie Team.

Brendan Queen, he was a great guest.

Listen to that show, if you haven't already.

Since then, you've added Daniel Dye, Justin Haley.

And now you might actually have 25 more drivers to announce pretty soon.

Tell us about the Ram Free Agent.

Yeah, the Ram Free Agent.

You know me, if we're coming back, we're coming back strong

and we're going to try and do it interesting and fun.

Why bother doing it any other way?

I mean, mediocrity with the trip, right?

So so you you were talking about every week

you seem to have something new to talk about.

That's the whole goal, right?

Have something to talk about with racing is not just racing

for the sake of racing, but it's the expansion of that engagement

and that excitement that surrounds racing.

So when we were talking about coming back, you know,

we were talking to all the experts.

We had been gone for a long time

and things had changed within the NASCAR space a lot.

You know, there wasn't even

Turters last time we left and I know we're talking about truck right now.

But just as an example, it seems crazy to say that now.

But 12 years ago, things were a lot different.

So as we were talking to people about coming back,

we got a lot of input, what we needed to do to be competitive.

And one of the things that people said is you got to have

an absolute minimum of three trucks to be competitive.

And then, of course, three trucks, people said,

no, no, you got to have an absolute minimum of six trucks.

And I'm like, OK, where's the right answer in here?

So to working with Collin Grace and with Matt and Chris Rice,

we decided that it was true that we needed to have

an absolute minimum of three.

But then we said, OK, well,

if we're going to have three, you know,

each one that you add after that isn't the same expense.

You know, there's diminishing cost as you add more.

And so that's why we came up with five.

We're going to have five trucks.

Three, you already know the established full time drivers.

You mentioned that.

But then there's going to be two more.

The next one is the 25 car,

which is the car that we call the free agent.

And then the fifth car will announce

what we're doing with the fifth car.

I think we're going to announce that mid January or so,

about probably about a month or so away from Daytona's.

But the fourth car that you're talking about,

the number 25 car, the free agent, I think it's going to be.

It's going to be a really fun car, because like you said,

we're going to have a different driver every weekend.

And we're not going to say who that driver is

until the weekend before.

So that will allow the fans of whoever the potential drivers

could be or whoever they think the potential drivers could be

to be, you know, hounding on their favorite driver to say,

Hey, why aren't you next?

Why aren't you throwing your hat in the ring?

Why aren't you going to get involved in this?

So we think it'll be fun and engaging for the for the race.

Are these going to be young, up and coming drivers, returning legends,

international drivers, all of the above?

What's the plan all of the above?

Anybody that NASCAR says is safe and competitive

and that colleague agrees is safe and competitive

to get into one of these cars is a potential.

That doesn't mean that, you know, that's the whole list there.

But anybody that fits that criteria is a potential that could be involved.

The funny thing, though, what most people don't know is, OK,

36 people on the grid, what most people don't know is

there's probably in go ahead and fact check me

because I'm sure I'm wrong.

But there's probably three, four hundred plus people

that would fall into that criteria.

So it's a very well in the world, a small population.

But what is in the NASCAR community is a very large population

can compare to what's on the grid.

Are you aiming to have literally one new driver every week

or might there be returnees?

Well, you're giving me a lot of credit that I've thought through this.

We're going to we're going to be beating it up as we go.

I like what you just said there, because I really do feel like

you guys just jumped in a truck, stepped on the gas

and are figuring this out as you go along, because it's just a lot of fun to do it that way.

Yeah, people always think that I'm kidding when I say that.

They think that I'm trying to make it sound, you know, more interesting.

But it's not it's it's absolutely true.

We said we were coming back at Daytona or not at Daytona.

We said we were coming to Daytona, but we said it in Michigan.

And I remember one of the journalists was the back and I thought

they don't know who it was raised their hand.

They said, who is your competition director?

And we looked at each other and said, oh, I guess we need one of those.

We better go figure that out.

It's not easy to win a one off race and certainly not as a first time driver.

And some of these cases, it might be that.

So like you were saying, this really is more about building the buzz

for Ram and for the Ram Truck series.

Yeah, what I think is cool about this free agent truck is this truck

is not intended to chase points at all, obviously, because it's a different driver.

So we have no intention of chasing points with this truck.

We are going to actually have our own points race with this truck.

This truck in and of itself, as we have the different drivers

through the years, we're coming up with a scheme where they're chasing points

and there is going to be a very cool award that they're going to get

for whoever who is whoever is the top free agent of the year.

And we'll announce what that award is going to be at Daytona.

So right before we get on track for our first race

and with our first free agent, we're going to show the world

what the prize is, what the award is for the top free agent.

And trust me, it's it's a cool prize.

You've been doing so much what the truck series already haven't even started yet.

Have you heard anything from your friends at Ford and Chevy and Toyota

if they're going to ramp things up to try to keep pace with you?

Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know if I have no idea.

I mean, I hope I hope that they're OK with everything we're doing to me.

What we're trying to do is just bring more attention and more excitement to the sport.

So I think it's good for everybody.

Alex, you are my communications and marketing guru, of course.

How much untapped potential do you think there is in the truck series,

which does put on some of the most exciting shows in racing?

On a potential, I think RAM joining helps a lot.

Again, more brands, more interest, more more opportunity.

And then this free agent program is super interesting.

Just for me, speaking purely from a sort of comms and marketing perspective.

Tim, do you is there like a fan engagement element

that your guys are going to work in here in terms of like like,

are you going to do like fan polling or whatever to get, you know,

ideas from outside your, you know, your motorsport circle?

Yeah, the idea is, and you said the absolute perfect word, fan engagement.

This was this is 100 percent designed to be fan-engaging

because if you think about it, there's 20 million NASCAR fans.

Now, within the 20 million NASCAR fans, 50 percent of them already drive a truck.

So if you think about the different series, yes, Cup is the top tier.

Cup is amazing, all that kind of stuff.

But 50 percent of the people that are watching Cup drive a truck.

So there's already a natural draw to that truck series

that I think has been relatively untapped.

And I think we can go after pretty aggressively.

Now, you know that the fan base within truck is much smaller than the fan base

with the Cup, even though it's kind of all the same fan base.

I just got to try and pull some of that into the truck space, which I can.

Now, your idea of fan engagement, what you're asking me is,

are we going to have some sort of a fan pool type thing on how the racers get in?

I'm going to tell you, yes and no, no from us.

But I think it will be organic from the fans themselves,

because I think what will happen is when we announced just before Daytona

who our first free agent is,

we have not locked in the rest of the year, just like I said to Gary,

because what I want to have happen is I want make up a name.

Alex Jones, I just made that up.

A former racer or a racer in another form of motorsports or or whatever,

one of those 400 people that are out there that are

and with it enough and can do this,

I want their fan base that may not be or may be partially included in that 20 million.

I want them pushing their driver.

I want them pushing, why aren't you doing this?

Why did you let make up the name, the first free agent?

Why did you let so and so do this?

You should have been the guy.

And I think that is going to happen organically.

Sure, a lot of chatter and debate, you know, every time you announce

and that probably seeds additional ideas down the road, right?

Yep, absolutely. That's the hope.

Anyways, Tim, you mentioned truck sales being big

and bringing those people into this effort.

We know you've got a couple of new SRT trucks coming next year.

Assume one of them is the rebooted off road TRX.

But we're going to see something like the dude street truck

you unveiled at SEMA that's going to really tie into your NASCAR efforts.

So my my goal, Gary, and I hesitate to say it

because I almost always miss goals when they're related to timing.

But I will tell you my goal and I'm very specifically calling it a goal

because I probably miss it.

My goal is to make one of those announcements on January 1st, New Year's Day,

which you're going to tell me is a horrible day for media, all that stuff.

It's OK. It's OK.

I think it's a cool enough announcement that it'll break through that whole

it's New Year's Day, bad idea thing.

And then my other goal is to make another announcement

at Daytona right before we get on track.

Before we let you go, we know the plan for this or the intention for this

is to follow up the truck series entry with a cup series entry in a couple of years.

Is there any weight and see how the truck series does before you do that?

Or is that already moving forward full steam with a Dodge race car?

I will tell you, there is no way that we could bring somebody

of the talent and caliber level of colleague

without a 100 percent sincere sincere intention to go to cup.

They wouldn't do it. There's no way.

No team of that caliber would.

So it is our 100 percent intention to try to get to cup.

That's not a 100 percent guarantee because it is very difficult to do

and it takes a long time and there's a there's a lot of stuff.

But I'm not trying to hedge you.

I'm just telling you, that is our intent. We want to do that.

Truck series is a lot cheaper, millions rather than tens and hundreds of millions.

I saw a story the other day that the Dodgers

contract with Shoei Otani 700 million over 10 years

that they actually made all of that money back and increased revenues

in the first year of the contract.

Do you feel like it earned media already or in the next couple of months?

This truck series effort is already paying off.

Well, you know me.

The fourth and fifth trucker are there to do exactly what you just said.

Tim Kineski is looking forward to January 1st, I guess, although I'm sure

you'll have more news before then about this.

But thanks for joining us on the show.

Thanks, Gary. Alex, how great an idea is this?

I mean, it's almost like Ram is out

doing the announcement that Ram is coming back to NASCAR with this already.

Because everybody's going to be talking about this every week next year.

Yeah, it's awesome.

And it's a reminder that this is all supposed to be fun, right?

And these guys are going to have a blast.

So I mean, you have a fully serious racing operation, you know, going on.

And then this, which, yeah, does it feel stunty?

Yeah, and that's great. That's what you want.

I mean, the truck series is going to get a ton of juice out of this.

Remember the Trackhouse Project 91 car? Yes.

Granted, that was Cup. This is truck. It's a different level.

They did that five times with three drivers, SVG,

Helio Kastron, Evans and Kimi Reichenin, and it got all the news five times over,

I think, three years.

And even last year or this year,

Helio crashed out of the Daytona 500, but who cares?

He was great on TV, promoting that car.

And you're going to have that every week with the Ram thing.

It's such a good idea.

It's it's it's so smart. I love it.

I mean, that's how when you are coming into the sport as Ram is,

this is how you get people to immediately pay attention.

And look at the other brands.

I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw

the Ford truck series truck or the Chevy truck series truck in any advertising.

Toyota actually puts their truck in those gaseous racing commercials.

You'll see it in there with the other one sometimes.

It's just such a missed opportunity for everyone.

You know, they talk about white space in the auto industry.

This is an amazing white space, low cost of entry.

I really hope these other automakers step it up.

And I think they're going to have to because even if your driver is winning

every race like Corey Heim did this year in the truck series,

no one's going to care.

It's going to get boring while Ram has a new driver coming every week.

And they might also be winning

because they've got some pretty good full time drivers.

Like I said, it's just a genius idea.

But super duper attention.

I mean, Ram has something important to announce every single week

for the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.

And it's going to have a much more product to be leveraging this with as well.

Yeah, on the flip side in NASCAR, talking about product and leveraging it.

We've gotten our first look at the new 2026 Chevrolet NASCAR Cup Series car,

which has been updated because it needed a new car to compete with

Ford and Toyota, even though it just won the NASCAR championship with

Kyle Larson, nevertheless, apparently they needed an updated car.

Ford updated the Mustang last year, Toyota updated the Camry last year.

Chevrolet, well, it stopped building the Camaro actually in 2023,

although it was technically a 2024 model and wasn't allowed to update it.

But it got approval from NASCAR and from the other automakers

to make some updates to the Camaro, which is coming back in 2026.

Alex, when on Sunday sell what on Monday?

If you're racing a car that's been out of production, I guess you're selling

the carbon edition accessory package to ZL1 owners.

And like, so I love and hate this.

I personally think that the Camaro is the best looking of the three silhouettes in cup.

I think this new one looks good.

I hate it because all this does is remind me that you can't go by a Camaro.

It's a loophole.

Chevy didn't have anything else to turn into the cup body.

In a sense, you know, there's a part of me that's like it would have been

more credible to put an equinox nose on it than this.

But I just hope that this is a sort of stopgap to some other Chevrolet

performance car, ideally a pony car, ideally another Camaro,

some future generation thing.

I have no doubt that the car is going to be fast.

I mean, Camaro was in the news all last weekend also.

I mean, my ex algorithm knows me pretty well.

So I was getting absolutely hammered with Garage 56 and Japan stuff over the weekend.

And every time you see this, the current Cup Camaro is a very cool race car.

You know, seeing the Garage 56 car at Fuji was pretty awesome.

A reminder of in general, what is possible with this Gen 7,

you know, with this next gen Cup car platform in general.

But yeah, it's weird, you know, they announced an accessory package

and it essentially becomes the fig leaf that allows them to update the Cup car.

I'm sure it's going to be just fine.

You know, like Hendrik is going to go out there and kick ass

as they always do with the with the Chevy.

Now, I know a lot of the response from people who already think GM

is into tight with NASCAR and always gets its way and thinks

that this is just not the way it should go.

Is that look, they shouldn't be able to do this

if they don't sell a Camaro.

That said, Dona May, Ford and Toyota did update their cars last year.

So the current Camry and Mustang will probably be

raced for the next four years before there's another major update to either of those.

So you're bringing this slightly updated Camaro.

And as far as the racing is concerned,

it's not like things would have changed anyway,

unless and unless Chevrolet had brought an entirely new car to the table.

Here's what's really got me thinking.

You know, last year, this season that just passed,

Chevy took the name Camaro off the cars and replaced it with Chevrolet

to promote the Chevrolet brand.

You look at Indy car.

They don't make a production Indy car.

You look at IMSA Cadillac doesn't make a hypercar that they sell on the street.

Formula one Cadillac, that's not about selling the car.

It's about selling the brand.

Do we get to a point with NASCAR now that there aren't as many cars

on sale and cars to promote for sale?

Do we go to more of a generic car for the next generation?

Do we get rid of the idea of trying to make it look like a production car?

Go back to like the Gen four or what, you know, they do in modifies

and what they do in late model, which is a basic car

and you really sell in the engine and the brand.

That's what you're racing.

I think you get into trouble if you try and generalize it too much.

I like that there are that the cup cars are still sort of,

you know, tangentially, you know, based on something that is production

or was recently, you know, in production.

Are these new cars largely, you know, spec, you know, to it to a degree?

Yes. I mean, the teams have to they're buying them from suppliers.

Teams don't build the cars in that said, because of that,

I think it's really important to have whatever unique identity that you can

apply to the platform, the next gen platform that that they're racing.

I think that's still really important.

It's not lost on me that, you know, the Ford, the dark horse update,

the Camry update, these are substantial updates.

And the Camaro update is substantial.

Listeners who follow our friend Bozi on X saw, I mean, Bozi is always right out

there immediately doing like side by side comparisons, actually doing a better

job in some cases than what was officially communicated, showing just

how different this new Camaro next gen body work is versus the car

that it's replacing.

So long story long, I think it's important to have

the the unique identity generic is bad.

I mean, that's a problem with Indy car, in my opinion.

We have two engines, suppliers and everything.

But I think it's not great that the cars are all visually identical.

Rick Hendricks said they were looking for better downforce

with the new Camaro redesign.

So my question then is, what's the best outcome here?

Obviously, it would be Chevrolet introducing a new sports car

that they can enter NASCAR, especially if Dodd shows up with a charger

in a couple of seasons.

But barring that, shouldn't NASCAR switch to SUV bodies?

Or should it make a next gen pickup truck that becomes the new cup series?

I think that trucks shouldn't be cup.

I think that cup needs to be its own thing.

And I think that cars matter.

And I think I think if anything,

cup series being based on car name plates

and loosely based on sellable vehicle bodywork is important

in terms of encouraging the OEMs to, you know, not abandon these cars entirely.

SUVs are popular, of course.

One of the most popular for years is the Jeep Wrangler.

And now Jeep has a new competitor for the Jeep Wrangler that it's making itself.

It's the Jeep Recon electric SUV that it revealed this week.

Completely different vehicle, but it's got the removable doors,

removable windows, you can get it with the full Sky One touch power top.

So it's almost an open air vehicle like the Wrangler.

But let's talk about the specs on this price to start for the top of the line.

Recon Moab 66,995 dollars.

If they get 650 horsepower, which sounds great.

And 230 miles of driving range, which doesn't.

Now, this would have been a lot better deal if we sell the federal tax credits

and you could take seventy five hundred dollars off of that line.

It's also made in Mexico.

I'm sure that pumped up the price a little bit with the current tariff situation.

Do you think Jeep has a hit on its hands for the US?

Because keep in mind, a lot of people buy Wranglers, not to go off road.

They buy them because they like cruising around with the top off

and because it's like driving around in a Tonka truck

and they have no interest in the actual truck part of it.

It all depends on how it drives.

Jeep has already demonstrated that people will pay upwards of seventy

thousand dollars for a Wrangler, which is hardly, you know, some sort of world

leading driving experience in the traditional sense of what people look for.

And a hundred thousand for those final edition three ninety twos.

Right. And which are awesome.

A ton of fun to drive.

It's like Wrangler light with SRT levels of power.

I think it's going to be interesting.

Customers in general, I don't think anyone's really to be put off by the the EV part of it.

I mean, look at Cadillac, they're selling I see Cadillac EVs now all the time.

You know, the the market penetration is there.

Let's see how they market it. Let's see what the what the reaction is.

I think it looks I think it looks right.

It's at a price point that Jeep buyers are already paying.

And it's probably going to drive better than every Wrangler ever built ever combined.

No doubt about that.

And it is about 14 grand less than a Rivian R1S, which has 270 miles of range.

They're going to be offering or they're planning to launch lower priced

recon trims that will get up to 250 miles range.

You know, it's just that boxy styling and the off road tires just kill highway range.

I don't want to declare a hit because you can't.

But I think that first of all, Jeep is an aspirational brand.

I think this is good. This is playing in a pool where I think there is an audience.

Let's see what happens.

It's built on one of those multi energy platforms.

Would love to see this as a hybrid, maybe get 35 miles per gallon,

a lot cheaper, maybe 50 grand for 35 miles per gallon.

That that would be a huge hit.

Yeah, it certainly would.

Let's see what happens.

You know, right now it's the alt Wrangler for lack of a better term.

Jeep unveiled it in Los Angeles on the sidelines of the LA Auto Show.

There was another big hybrid launch there as well.

That'd be the new, all new Kia Telluride.

Alex, the Telluride went on sale in 2020 was an immediate hit.

And sales have increased every year since then.

They don't have to replace it, but they've just replaced it with an all new model.

It's got a sleeker design, but this big crazy blunt front end

with a 329 horsepower hybrid powertrain that gets 35 miles per gallon.

They don't have to replace the Telluride,

but they are with something that's so much better.

This is going to be an enormous success for Kia.

It's a slam dunk.

They're going to sell a ton of these things.

I mean, the first Telluride was great looking.

You cannot overstate, I think, the importance of design

with these sort of mass market SUVs.

Again, you're playing in a pool with the

there is so much competition in the category

and they came out and just crushed it.

Much better design than the Hyundai Palisade,

which it shares architecture with.

And this new one looks great.

I mean, it's borderline like Range Rover ish outside.

The interior looks great.

You know, very screen heavy, whether you like that or not.

That's a preference thing, but they're going to sell a ton of them.

And the hybrid setup, that's great mileage for a vehicle

that size that doesn't require, you know, it doesn't require you to change anything.

It's not like you have to plug it in or it's not an EV.

You don't have to change your lifestyle.

It's like if you are in a current Telluride,

I mean, you're going to roll right into this thing.

As with many of the other shows these days,

LA Auto Show pretty thin on the ground as far as new brand new product

being revealed at the show is concerned.

Telluride really is the top model there.

But their friends over at Hyundai, you mentioned to make the Palisade,

they've got one of maybe the coolest concept cars

we've seen in years called the Crater XRT.

It's an off road, looks like a moon buggy.

Very aggressive design.

The interior looks like a 1970 spaceship

with these overstuffed seats.

The center console is actually padded.

The dashboard is just a tube that's attached by straps.

Looks like a lot of fun.

Definitely looks like something they are intending to build.

Although they haven't said what it's going to be powered by yet,

much like that Genesis concept that they had at the New York Honor show.

Here it is.

We're not telling you if it's electric or gas.

Just tell us what you think about it.

What do you think about it?

I listen, I think it's awesome.

So this is a shot across the bow at at Ford and Jeep, in my opinion,

because this is this is a great design.

It is entirely in that Wrangler slash Bronco wheelhouse

in terms of what they're doing.

This is something that Hyundai has not tried before.

They have excellent designers.

This thing looks the part to me.

This is the coolest off road concept since the Hummer H4.

If you want to turn the clock way back.

And again, H4 again, was aiming in that in that same general area.

This is Hyundai doing a full blown lifestyle forward off road,

you know, SUV with all the cool things that that you want.

It looks like a SEMA build already.

You know, if they were ever to produce anything like this,

you can only imagine, you know, what what people would be able to do with it.

And as far as the powertrain, that's the beauty of a concept.

You you don't have to be specific about any of that.

You just gauge reaction and see where it goes.

You worked at Hyundai some years ago.

What is it that they get that the other roadmakers don't get?

Not just about style, because their cars,

key is as well, very high style, but they also still do the concepts.

They understand the buzz of making a concept car.

You just don't see them from other automakers like you did even 10 years ago,

let alone 20 years ago, when that was why you went to a car show.

Well, I think it's paid that.

Listen, all the automakers have really interesting design divisions.

Hyundai's is great.

What Hyundai realized, I think, and continues to realize

nobody else is showing anything new or noteworthy.

You know, there's some exceptions.

But for the most part, nobody shows anything new or cool at these shows.

So they show up with show cars and concept cars that get everybody talking.

They get the lion's share of share of voice in terms of media coverage.

And, you know, when you show up with something that's really cool,

you become a magnet, you know, for the for those public days, too.

I think they're just playing the game.

Most OEMs are are not revealing anything or just have sort of dealer led displays.

They're showing up with official presence and official announcements

and all their executives and they're doing what they need to do

to keep people talking about their brands.

Do you think the shows themselves could fix this?

You know, the traditional model is we have a media day.

It's close to the public.

We have a bunch of press conferences and vehicle reveals,

and then we open up to the public.

And there's not really any events going on.

There's just cars sitting on the floor.

I mean, you know, I look at something like Comic Con,

where it's just nonstop action for a few days.

People pay a lot of money to go to it.

There's celebrities there.

There's the seminars.

You know, what if the LA Auto Show, instead of doing a media day every day,

they had a stage and there was one car reveal that would bring in the crowds

and also give that automaker the spotlight for an entire day

instead of being crowded in with 10 other cars.

I mean, the shows are the shows really the press days are

you have to treat it almost as an entirely separate thing.

The shows are complaining about the state of affairs.

The shows are cooking.

You know, you go to the New York Auto Show on any given day.

It's a mob scene.

LA Auto Show is going to be a mob scene.

People want to go look at the cars that are there.

If there's some new stuff, awesome.

But for a lot of these show, showgoers in general, the general public,

there's a lot of stuff that's going to be new to them no matter what.

So while it's like old news to like us who live in this ridiculous bubble

and are following this stuff at a granular level,

I think the shows are doing fine with or without the added announcements

and all that other stuff.

But you don't think they can kick up the buzz somehow?

I mean, it's certainly not like it was in the old days.

Automakers are going to do their own thing where they don't have to worry

about, you know, getting big footed by another by a by a competitor.

Hyundai and Kia will be at these things forever

because the opportunity is there.

But I wouldn't expect to see any sort of behavioral change

from the other Oriens.

They can own their moments without a show.

Well, the next show is going to be in Detroit last week.

We were talking to Mark Rushbrook from Ford.

Ford's going to have its big Ford racing event adjacent again

to the auto show, not actually at the auto show.

I was actually looking back at this year's Detroit Auto Show.

And I think the only new model that was revealed there was the Mustang RTR,

which was a prototype at the time, still not on sale.

It's not going to be on sale until next year.

Your outlook for Detroit a couple of weeks from now.

Is it going to be any different or same this year?

Nothing. I mean, again, all the shows have quieted down.

So, listen, I'll be happy and pleasantly surprised

if any of the momentous happens.

I don't anticipate anything really momentous happening.

Well, between now and then we have a bunch of shows.

And I expect even though we are coming into December,

which is typically a quiet month, there will be some momentous stuff

to talk about and we'll be here talking about.

Alex, always good to talk to you.

Glad to be here. Thanks, Gary.

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