Real vs. Virtual Driving, No More Clutch?, The New One Is Better | Episode 1,043

Real vs. Virtual Driving, No More Clutch?, The New One Is Better | Episode 1,043 Everyday Driver Car Debate · Apr 28, 2026

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Car

Honda Civic

Honda’s Civic Sport Touring is a higher-trim Civic aimed at balancing everyday comfort with a more premium feel. Trim names like “Sport Touring” usually indicate added features (often including better infotainment, comfort items, and sometimes more performance-oriented tuning depending on generation).

Concept

sports wagon

A “sports wagon” is a performance-oriented station wagon—typically with a sportier suspension setup and sometimes more powerful engines—while still offering the practicality of a wagon. The hosts are pointing out that Europe may get these variants, but North America often doesn’t, which affects what enthusiasts can buy locally.

Concept

wagons keep dying

They mean that wagons haven’t been selling well enough to keep being offered. If not many people buy them, companies stop bringing them to the market.

Car

Hyundai Ioniq

The Hyundai Ioniq V is a new electric car Hyundai is planning for China. The big takeaway here is that Hyundai is changing how the cabin looks and feels, not just the powertrain.

Term

800 volt platform

“800 volt” is an electrical system design in the EV. Higher voltage can help the car charge faster and manage power more efficiently, especially on the right fast chargers.

Concept

EV experience

They’re talking about the “experience” side of EVs—how the car feels inside and how easy it is to use. With EVs, the cabin design and screens often matter as much as the battery range.

Term

legroom

Legroom is how much space there is for your legs. The hosts are saying rear-seat legroom is a big deal for this kind of car and market.

Brand

Tesla

Tesla is being used as the comparison point for how EVs can be designed inside. They’re saying this Hyundai’s interior layout feels similar to Tesla’s big-screen style.

Term

one massive screen

This is the “big screen” dashboard style where most controls and info are shown on one display. It can look clean and modern, but you may need to interact with menus more than with physical buttons.

Concept

letterbox screen effect

They’re describing the screen shape and how it looks—kind of like the black bars you see on some movies. That look can change how easy it is to read and how the dashboard feels.

Term

driver does not have a screen in front of them

They’re saying the driver doesn’t get a separate screen directly ahead. Instead, the main information is probably shown on the big central display, so the driver has to look more toward the middle.

Concept

minimalist interior design

They’re talking about minimalist car interiors, where the cabin looks clean and simple. Some people call that “luxury,” but the host thinks it’s often just cheaper for the manufacturer to make. The idea is that fewer physical pieces can reduce cost.

Concept

screen-focused interior design

The hosts are criticizing the trend toward putting most of the driver information and controls on large screens. In practice, this can change how quickly drivers can find key functions, and it can also make the cabin feel more “tech product” than traditional vehicle. The segment frames this as a shift in the interior experience that may not translate well to real production cars.

Brand

Kia Global Design

They mention Kia’s design leadership team. The point is that Kia has a global group that decides what the brand’s future look and feel should be. That matters because the hosts are judging whether the “future” design actually looks good in practice.

Concept

immersive digital experience

They’re using a phrase that basically means “the cabin feels like a digital experience.” The host is saying they don’t see much of that in the photos and is worried it might not actually be better once it’s in real cars. It’s a commentary on how marketing language meets real design.

Car

Toyota Prius

They’re comparing the new Hyundai’s shape to the Toyota Prius. That’s basically saying it has a similar “efficient, aerodynamic” look. It doesn’t mean it’s the same car—just that the styling reminds them of the Prius.

Concept

experience modes

Experience modes are different settings you can choose in a car. They change how the car feels and responds, like switching between different “personalities” for the drive.

Concept

immersive user experience

“Immersive” here means the car tries to pull you in with more engaging screens and controls. The idea is to make the cabin feel like part of the driving experience, not just transportation.

Term

joystick

A joystick is a handheld-style control that can move in different directions. In this concept, it’s used to control the car’s functions in a more interactive, futuristic way.

Concept

simulate gear shifts

Simulating gear shifts means the car can mimic the feel or cues of changing gears without a traditional manual gearbox action. This is often done in EVs or automated drivetrains to give drivers familiar feedback, even when the powertrain doesn’t operate like a conventional transmission.

Concept

self-driving

Self-driving means the car does most of the driving for you. The hosts are saying that if the car drives itself, it might be less fun or less engaging for the person inside.

Car

Ioniq 5

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is an electric car. The hosts mention it as part of a comparison video, likely contrasting a normal, tech-forward EV with a more traditional performance car.

Concept

simulate some of the things about driving

They mean cars using computers to copy the sensations you’d normally get from a gas engine. The question is whether that makes driving more fun—or just makes it feel fake.

Term

gear shifts that aren't gear shifts

The hosts are describing “simulated” gear changes—common on some EVs—where the car changes sound and/or control behavior to imitate shifting, even though the drivetrain may not actually be changing gears. This can create a familiar sensation without the mechanical event of a traditional transmission shift.

Term

idle level of the engine

They’re basically saying the car is changing the “baseline” behavior to make it feel like something is happening. On an electric car, that usually means changing sound and power delivery rather than a real engine idling.

Concept

VR headset

They’re comparing the car to VR—something that can pull your attention away from the real world. Their point is that they don’t want driving to feel like a game that disconnects you from what’s around you.

Concept

being a car isn't good enough

The point is that today’s buyers often want more than “it drives.” They want the car to offer something extra—like fun, comfort, or a certain vibe.

Concept

enthusiast drivers

“Enthusiast drivers” are people who care about how a car drives and often seek engagement—handling, feedback, sound, and performance characteristics. In car debates, this group is contrasted with mainstream buyers who prioritize practicality, comfort, or value.

Concept

driving experience category

“Driving experience” just means how the car feels to drive. It’s not only about power or speed—it’s about whether the steering, acceleration, and ride are fun and satisfying.

Concept

simulating the driving experience

Simulated driving is when a game or setup tries to copy what it feels like to drive a real car. It can be fun and educational, but it still isn’t the same as driving for real because real cars have real road feel and physics.

Brand

Hyundai and Kia

Hyundai and Kia are big car brands from South Korea. Here, they’re being mentioned in the context of making cars that feel more fun to drive, not just tech-filled.

Concept

harking back to the 1960s, the GT cars, the long road trips

“GT cars” are built for comfortable long drives, like road trips. The hosts are basically saying they want that classic, enjoyable driving vibe back.

Term

no screens

“No screens” means fewer digital displays and more normal buttons and controls. Some people prefer that because it’s quicker and less distracting while driving.

Car

Toyota Gr86

The GR 86 is a small sports car meant to be fun to drive. It’s usually chosen by people who want performance without spending a lot. The discussion is about whether another car could offer a similar experience for less money.

Concept

volume vs niche sports cars

They’re saying car companies usually make money by selling a lot of cars, not by making only small numbers of niche sports cars. So the features you get are often designed to appeal to more than just hardcore drivers.

Concept

gamer mode

“Gamer mode” is basically a nickname for the car’s sportiest settings. It’s meant to make the car feel more responsive, like you’re controlling it more directly.

Concept

reversible jacket, reversible belt

They’re comparing the idea of car settings to clothes that can be worn different ways. The point is that different people want different feels, so the car should let you switch it up.

Car

Ioniq 5N

The Ioniq 5 N is the “sporty” version of Hyundai’s electric Ioniq 5. It’s meant to feel more fun to drive, with settings you can change—though some owners might just use it like a normal EV.

Term

driver modes

Driver modes are like different “personalities” the car can switch between. They change how the car feels when you press the pedal and how the car manages grip and power.

Concept

virtual thing where you're not actually enjoying driving

They’re talking about how driving in real life feels different from driving in a simulator. The host is basically saying real driving has real feedback that simulations may not capture.

Part

brake kits

A brake kit is a set of brake parts sold together, usually including rotors and pads. It’s meant to improve stopping and is chosen to fit your specific car.

Company

Powerstop Brakes

Powerstop Brakes makes aftermarket brake parts. The hosts are saying their kits can help your car stop better and can also reduce how messy the brakes get.

Part

carbon fiber ceramic pads

Carbon fiber ceramic pads are a type of aftermarket brake pad material designed to improve braking performance while producing less brake dust than many conventional pads. They’re often marketed for better pedal feel and cleaner wheels, especially for daily driving.

Part

drilled and slotted rotors

Drilled and slotted rotors have holes and grooves on the rotor surface. They help the brakes run cooler and can help the pad clean itself during hard stops.

Term

brake temperatures low

When brakes get too hot, they can stop working as well. The idea here is that cooler brakes keep your stopping power more consistent.

Term

brake dust

Brake dust is the gritty powder that builds up on your wheels as you brake. Some brake pads make more of it than others, so choosing the right pads can keep wheels cleaner.

Company

Powerstop.com

PowerStop sells replacement brake parts. Their website tool helps you pick the correct brake parts for your exact car so you don’t buy the wrong fit.

Car

BMW 7 Series

The BMW 7 Series is BMW’s top-tier luxury sedan. The hosts are talking about how BMW updated it—both the look and what it’s trying to offer buyers.

Term

Neue Class design language

“Neue Klasse” is BMW’s idea of a new design direction. The hosts are basically saying they can’t clearly see that new design theme in the photo.

Term

beaver teeth

“Beaver teeth” is a joking nickname for a grille that has lots of sharp-looking vertical bars. They’re saying the grille looks ugly, even if it’s a little less offensive than before.

Concept

electric range

Electric range is how many miles an EV can drive before it needs charging. Here, they’re saying the newer electric versions can go farther on one charge.

Term

M70X drive

This sounds like a top, high-power BMW electric version. They’re quoting its power and torque to show it’s meant to be quick.

Term

horsepower

Horsepower is a way to describe how strong the motor is. More horsepower usually means the car can accelerate harder, especially when paired with good torque.

Term

pound-feet of torque

Torque is the force that gets the car moving. EVs typically have a lot of torque right away, which helps with quick starts.

Concept

Neue Class style

“Neue Klasse” is BMW’s way of saying they’re moving to a new design direction. Here, it’s basically shorthand for the newer BMW interior and tech look they’re showing off.

Term

four spoke steering wheel

A “four spoke steering wheel” just means the steering wheel has four main sections (spokes) coming out from the center. It’s mostly a styling detail, but it can also change where buttons and controls are placed.

Term

trapezoidal screens

“Trapezoidal screens” means the screens on the dashboard aren’t just rectangles—they have a slanted, wider/ narrower shape. The hosts are pointing out that the screen design helps make the cabin feel more high-tech and engaging.

Concept

immersion

“Immersion” here means the car’s interior feels like a complete experience, not just a place to sit. They’re talking about how screens and luxury features are arranged to make you feel more connected to what the car is doing.

Term

giant screen in the rear

This is a big screen mounted for rear passengers. It’s usually for entertainment or controlling features, and it’s meant to make the back seat feel more like a premium lounge.

Term

headlights

This segment highlights a common modern design trick: the visible “light-looking” elements on the bumper may not be the actual headlamp units. The hosts point out that the real headlights are positioned lower than the grille/vent shapes suggest, which affects how you interpret the car’s front-end design.

Concept

Neue Class styling

“Neue Klasse” is BMW’s design theme for a new generation of cars. It’s basically the brand’s way of making the front of the car look different and more modern, even if some details (like lights) don’t match where you think they should be.

Term

PHEV

PHEV means the car is a plug-in hybrid. You can charge it like an EV, and it also has a gas engine for longer trips when the battery runs low.

Car

BMW i3

They mention the BMW i3 because it’s a distinctive-looking BMW electric car. They’re saying they expected the new car to look like a bigger version of that, but it doesn’t.

Term

BMW kidney iconic glow

BMW’s “kidneys” are the grille shape at the front of the car. Here, they’re talking about it being lit up, so it looks brighter and more noticeable.

Term

reduced surfaces character line

A character line is a crease in the car’s body that helps it look more sculpted. They’re saying the new design uses simpler shapes so that line stands out more.

Term

rear lights

The hosts pivot to “rear lights,” comparing “the old” versus “the new.” Tail light design is a major part of how a facelift or new generation reads visually, often changing the light signature even if the body shape is similar.

Car

2011 Lincoln MKZ

The Lincoln MKZ is a Lincoln sedan. They’re talking about how the rear lights looked on the 2011 model and saying the design didn’t really work.

Concept

mid-cycle refresh

A mid-cycle refresh is an update automakers do partway through a model’s life—usually to keep the car competitive without redesigning it completely. Hosts describe this as a “big” refresh that includes interior changes, but not a full new generation.

Car

Mercedes C-Class EV

This is an electric Mercedes-Benz C-Class. They’re talking about how the dashboard is dominated by a big screen and how the outside shape could look like lots of other brands.

Term

ginormous instrument panel

They mean the dashboard looks like it’s mostly a big screen. Instead of lots of separate gauges, the car shows information digitally.

Term

single screen

They’re saying the car uses one big display instead of multiple smaller ones. That can make the interior feel more modern and less cluttered.

Brand

Audi

Audi is a luxury car brand from Germany. Here, they’re basically saying the car’s shape and details look like something Audi would do.

Term

pixelation

“Pixelation” here refers to how the grille and lighting details can look in photos or video due to resolution, compression, or camera processing. It’s not a car feature by itself, but it affects how accurately you can identify styling cues from images.

Term

LED lights underneath the doors

LED puddle lights are small light sources mounted near the door that project illumination onto the ground when you open the door. They’re often used for visibility and a premium “welcome” effect.

Term

light carpet

“Light carpet” just means the glowing pattern on the ground when you open the door. It’s usually made by the door lights and can look like a logo or design.

Brand

Mercedes-Benz

Mercedes-Benz is talking about teaming up with a tech company to upgrade the car’s built-in computer. The idea is that the car’s voice/AI features will work better and feel more “smart” while you’re driving.

Concept

on-device AI

On-device AI means the car thinks using its own computer. That can make responses faster and keep more of the interaction private.

Company

Liquid AI

Liquid AI is a tech company that’s helping Mercedes-Benz make the car’s built-in AI smarter. That usually means the car can understand and respond faster using its own systems.

Term

M-Bucks

M-Bucks sounds like Mercedes-Benz’s name for the car’s “assistant” software platform. They’re saying newer generations make it better at understanding you and controlling car features.

Concept

in-car intelligence

“In-car intelligence” means the car’s system is trying to do more than play media or show maps. It’s meant to understand what’s going on and help you while you drive.

Concept

marketing speak

The host is saying the company’s language sounds vague and salesy. They’re implying that the new screen setup might be used to show ads.

Concept

Star Wars is back on the big screen with The Mandalorian and Grogu.

Gangsters, war criminals. I'll take out every bad guy in your deck of cards.

On May 22nd, feel the force.

On the biggest screen possible.

The old protect the young, and the young protect the old.

This is the way.

Buckle up.

Always wear your seatbelt.

The Mandalorian and Grogu, rated PG-13.

Maybe inappropriate for children under 13 in theaters May 22nd.

Get tickets now.

We're already laughing.

Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to the podcast.

It's been absurd, but we are prepping for so many crazy things coming up later this year.

We have a road trip going to Monterey that's going to be a cool film,

and that's not even the big film we're doing.

Which we'll tell you soon, I promise, but we have all of the things on this podcast.

Actually, mostly it's news and lots of car debates and a bunch of questions.

So we got to dive in because it's going to be huge.

Hopefully you've seen our K-4, almost hatch versus the Civic Sport Touring.

But this is a piece when the K-4 almost hatch came out,

because we're not getting the actual sports wagon that is available in Europe.

We're not getting that in North America.

Because apparently wagons keep dying and then they don't.

And they just don't get offered here.

I hope it proves something.

I like it actually quite a lot, and I use that as an intro.

So please watch that.

It's a great comparison, and they're both pretty much the same price,

and they're commute, they're a little bit of fun.

Very interesting, I thought, comparison.

They're right on top together for price and specs.

It was really cool to have them together, yeah.

So I use that as a segue into what Kia and Hyundai are doing stylistically.

The recently introduced Ioniq V.

We've got the Ioniq V, so we've got the Ioniq V for the Chinese market only.

We had talked about this a couple episodes ago when the concept came out.

But this is actually what is going forward in China with very little information.

The only thing we know it's got 600 kilometers or about 372 miles of range,

apparently, an 800 volt platform.

So EV, but it's all about the experience, the future experience.

Companies like Hyundai and Kia have never really focused on the interior

and experience for the Chinese market.

They certainly do. Legroom is a very big deal, and having a lot of legroom in the rear,

I want you to notice the screen layout, just the overall feeling of it.

This is a variation on what Tesla does.

Let me be honest, this is a very stark interior with one massive screen that is hugely letterbox

that starts, for those of you who can't see it, it starts over the center console

and it sweeps all the way in front of the passengers.

The driver does not have a screen in front of them.

It's this big, long, super wide screen, which will probably be broken into two or three panels

when you actually use it.

But the rest of the interior is pretty stark.

It's that minimalist thing, which we've all been supposed to be convinced that it means luxurious,

and it really means cheaper to make.

I'm continuing to dread what the future of car interior is like,

because everything is focused on screens, the interior experience,

that has not led up for production cars, and apparently this is where things are going.

So very little information on the Ioniq V, but stylistically,

you can't really describe what category it's in.

So I move to the new concept from Kia,

the executive vice president and head of Kia Global Design, Karim Habib.

He's also a fellow Arts Center graduate.

Kia's opposites united design philosophy shapes our future vision of mobility,

harmonizing the spirit of 1960s long distance touring

with the limitless possibilities of an immersive digital experience.

I see very little of that in this photo, but okay.

The interior, we don't get a picture of the IP,

but here is Kia is finding its voice,

and this is very similar to the Ioniq V from Hyundai that is now just released in China.

Which looks like a Prius. I have to keep saying it.

Very similar kind of thing with a single line for the greenhouse,

paired with facets for the body panels.

So very clean, but bold, faceted panels.

All the doors are angular. Yeah.

A lot of angles. It almost looks origami.

It does. That's a great description.

Smooth greenhouse.

And then here is the interior, giving you three distinct experience modes.

Speedster, Dreamer, and Gamer. These are modes.

What are we going to call these modes? What about Gamer mode?

Gamer, that's what this is based.

It's modes that enhance the highly immersive user experience

according to the driving environment and scenario.

And you'll notice in this photo, there is a joystick

that is part of the driver's seat.

And Kia is claiming this is all concept,

but you're able to switch modes and simulate gear shifts.

So everything about the future experience is what we all like about the old school stuff.

The most immersive experience is when you operate the car.

There's little verbiage about self-driving,

and you're just going to sit there and look at your phone

while the outside world is whatever it's doing.

And it just takes you to your destination.

No, we're trying to engage your senses, engage you in the driving here.

The interior environment, the immersive experience.

That is a shift in thinking.

I mean, I hope that they actually make some decent cars to drive.

Watch our Ioniq 5-In versus Ferrari piece,

which was on purpose a weird dichotomy of two things.

Opposites United.

Seriously, because we wanted to talk about the fact that the Ferrari is all visceral,

and the Ioniq 5-In is faking it, but it's faking it well.

I hope the wrong lesson wasn't learned at Hyundai, okay?

Because what Hyundai taught us, taught us all,

is that they can simulate some of the things about driving and it can work, okay?

To follow that is the prelude that's now trying to do it,

and that works to some degree as well,

which is also all fakery in their gear shifts that aren't gear shifts.

They're just changing the idle level of the engine, essentially.

It's true.

But now we're talking about a similar immersive experience theoretically on these concepts,

and I hope this is where I'm concerned about the wrong lesson being learned.

I hope the lesson being learned wasn't,

well, we'll just fake everything and the car will be boring.

I hope somewhere in there somebody realizes,

let's still make vehicles that are fun to operate.

The gamer thing concerns me, and I say this as a person with a 16-year-old.

When we have our moments when the house is somewhat quiet,

the dogs are asleep, my wife's watching something in the other room that's not on a high volume,

the sun is setting, it's a nice, idyllic kind of evening, right?

And my son is over there in silence, except he's got the VR headset on and headphones on,

and he's having a whole experience that has nothing to do with the world around him.

I don't want that in the car.

Agreed.

And I'm worried about that.

Agreed.

Cars need to continue to be pushed on.

What are the categories?

Who are we selling to?

What is the reason for you to choose one brand over another,

and what is the reason to choose this particular model?

What does it do for us?

It's almost like car companies continue to explore the theme of,

well, just being a car isn't good enough.

Fair point.

You're right.

Well, we know it's a car.

What else could it do?

Really?

Because if you were to ask us, we're enthusiast drivers.

Hopefully all of you watching are enthusiast drivers as well,

and you want something out of your car.

But in the driving experience category,

you want to have fun driving your car.

If it's a minivan, an SUV, a car, a sports car,

and if we're up to all of us, right,

we would just ask our car manufacturers to build cool sports cars for the rest of time.

Yes.

That's not how car companies think.

Gaming is not a new theme.

Not at all.

For the experience of cars.

But now that you're simulating the driving experience,

we've gone all the way to full self-driving.

We just need pods.

And now here's Hyundai and Kia going back to,

hmm, the driving experience.

And we're harking back to the 1960s, the GT cars, the long road trips.

And by the way, you get to drive yourself and it's simulated.

However you're doing it, simulated driving is really cool in my living room.

So does that mean we're going to go, the circle is large.

It's going to take decades.

But do we come back around to, we just built a car.

There's no screens.

It's got a steering wheel seats, a shifter and an engine.

And it's just, it's kind of interesting to drive.

I mean, I would love Kia to just build some sort of GR86 rival.

That's slightly cheaper.

They could do it.

They would be the one of the rare brands to pull it off.

It would look awesome.

Pick an engine.

It would drive great.

Yes, to all the above.

Yeah.

Well, but they're also thinking about volume.

Because all of these car companies, let's be honest, they survive on volume.

They don't survive on niche sports cars.

So if you create something like this, then the person that doesn't care about driving

can have whatever mode they want.

And the person that does care about driving can have gamer mode or whatever.

I mean, that's the concept is to create, it's back to the skateboard concepts

that were proliferating when you were going through art center.

Where it's, you make something that the owner can make it whatever they want.

It's a reversible jacket, a reversible belt.

But in this case, this desk grows with your child.

Anyway, but I know you're huge.

This is something that's like a short trip for you to be really annoyed.

But what it creates is, and that's the Ioniq 5N, let's be honest.

You can drive that as just an EV and it works fine as just an EV.

Yes.

And I wonder how many people, and I don't know if there will be stats for this,

but I want to have people, how many people have bought the Ioniq 5N

and then don't use the driver modes.

Just use it like an EV that's a performance EV with good suspension.

And you should have just bought the Ioniq 5.

Probably, yes.

But that's the thing is they've got to try to figure out how to make,

I hate to say it this way, one pod that will take the person that doesn't care about driving,

but maybe interest the person that does.

But I'm just worried about this whole virtual thing where you're not actually enjoying driving,

but it's been simulated for you.

Here's a last photo of the immersive experience.

That photo is two people staring at something on a turntable.

I don't know how immersive that is.

You know that the music in there is just sort of this humming.

Oh, you're right.

Kind of enjoy the spatial atmosphere and your distance and you're immersed in that.

Okay.

Does it drive well?

I just want to know if it drives well.

I hope so.

Yeah.

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Stop the podcast.

Speaking of car companies that give their customers what they think they want,

BMW has redesigned completely the new 7 Series.

They've refreshed it to the Neue Class design language.

Wait, no they didn't.

Is that really their commentary on this photo?

That is.

Because it still has the beaver teeth and looks every bit as ugly.

Okay.

No, no, no.

It's only 90% as ugly as the 7 Series was prior.

Did it get uglier?

Did it get better?

I think it got less offensive, but it didn't get more attractive.

And I don't see the Neue Class, New Class, I don't see that on here at all.

I don't either.

This represents the most extensive model update ever carried out by the BMW Group for the 7 Series.

What?

The fully electric models have a significantly longer electric range that now extends to

447 miles.

By the way, Lucid Air has already done that.

The M70X drive has 608 horsepower, 748 pound-feet of torque.

Lucid Airs are also quite powerful and pretty fast.

The Lucids actually look good.

That's the problem here.

And they've redesigned.

So the Neue Class style.

The interior, I see it.

The interior is different.

They've got the four spoke steering wheel here.

They've got the trapezoidal screens, adding screens, adding the immersive experience.

BMW and Mercedes are the kings of immersion.

You see it here.

This is the interior that they bragged with that new design.

I'll see that.

The exterior, no.

But the interior, I'll give it to them.

Yeah, for sure.

Here is the rear seats.

And remember, BMW was obsessed with that giant screen in the rear, but immersion into all

of the features and the luxury.

I'll give them this.

The interior looks amazing.

The interior looks like a fantastic place to be and is an absolute update along the lines

of their new styling.

The exterior is still heinously ugly.

Here's the old one.

Yeah.

Which is actually worse.

Here's the new one.

I stand by my worst, but that one's 90% as bad as the other car.

Did it get better?

Here's the old.

It got 10% better.

And this is 2023.

That's heinous.

For those of you who can't see it, chromed beaver teeth.

And keep in mind, the headlights are not where you think they are.

Of course they are.

They're down here.

And same thing on the new car.

They're down here.

These are the actual headlights.

The headlights are down here.

What looks like the side vents of the front bumper.

Yes.

Let me just remind everyone what the Neue Class styling is.

I think it's absolutely brilliant.

Looks great.

Imagine this new i3 as a bloated seven series.

A big seven series version of this.

Sure.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Put that front end.

I'm just not seeing it.

Because it's not there, Paul.

There's a reason you're not seeing it.

It's because it's fully not there.

It's not the Neue Class styling.

It's the same.

It's only if they argue the interior.

Because this as a giant seven series would be great.

All about.

Would look great.

Two PHEV variants and three M performance models.

Here's the versions that I counted.

By the way, here's the rear.

Better.

Old.

New.

Like 10% better.

New.

Yeah.

There is the i750 X-Drive.

The i760 X-Drive.

The i7M70 X-Drive.

You're only getting warmed up.

I could tell.

Yes.

The 750E rear wheel drive.

The M760E X-Drive and the 740 X-Drive.

Not to mention the 740D X-Drive.

I thought it was just going to be a large i3.

And we were going to call it done.

We all hoped that the beaver teeth had gone away.

But alas, not true with the seven.

The BMW kidney iconic glow and minimalist crystal headlights.

Give the car a visually impactful presence.

That's true.

There is visual impact here.

I feel like I got punched in the gut.

When I first saw this, I turned into a dog eating peanut butter.

I was like...

No.

I see that.

It has impact.

It impacted me.

Just not the impact they hoped for.

The side view impresses with reduced surfaces character line and classy details while the

rear ends shaped by newly designed lights in clear forms.

Let's talk about the rear lights.

Here's the old.

Here's the new.

And no, no.

What you've done is you've made a 2011 Lincoln MKZ rear lights that were not successful here.

It does look a little like that.

You're not wrong.

Well, but same.

But same.

Those lights are off the Neue class and they don't look great on that car either.

I agree.

It looks cross-eyed on the rear.

Yeah, you're not wrong.

And I didn't think the MKZ was successful.

The vertical Lincoln logo right in the middle and I thought this looked bug-eyed.

I thought it looked like the Mr. Potato Head or the squeezed all that.

And here BMW has ignored that, thrown caution to the wind and applied some elements of the

Neue class styling, but not all of them that I had hoped.

I mean, that would have made it successful and good looking.

They'll wait for the next full version.

This is this is like a big mid-cycle refresh is what this really is.

It is the most refresh of all the refreshes.

Yes.

Without being a new generation and they did a lot of interior stuff.

Yes.

It can't come quickly enough.

I understand.

The seven is haintlessly ugly right now.

I don't care how many versions of it they sell.

They're all ugly.

As soon as I saw that 760.

That's interesting.

This is all I saw.

All you saw was the Lincoln.

Old MKZ Lincoln.

All right.

Okay.

Mercedes has introduced the new C-Class EV unveiled with a ginormous instrument panel.

It's a single screen.

I hoped you'd bring this up.

This is even more screens than I thought possible.

Here's the new C-Class.

Here's the new EV.

There it is.

That profile could be four other car companies.

You're right.

It's there is nothing Mercedes about the profile of this car.

And as you start to see the front and rear lights, the lights start to have some signature

that you start to go, oh, that's a Mercedes.

But in profile, this could be a Tesla.

It could be a BMW.

It could be, honestly, it could be a Kia or a Hyundai product.

There's nothing about this side profile that says this is a Mercedes.

Nothing at all.

It could be Audi.

Yes.

Here's the rear and you start to see that signature.

You start to see the badge.

You start to see the proportions.

The lights look Mercedes.

I see it in the rear.

Yes.

Here's the front grille with all of the pixelation.

Very clear to me.

That's a Mercedes because the grille is all about the Mercedes logos.

I couldn't find a good picture of the light carpet that the doors cast onto the ground

when you get out from the LED lights underneath the doors.

The light carpet.

I couldn't find any good photos.

We're going to have to drive this and take photos of the light carpet.

That's all the reviews could be.

Step out onto.

Light carpet.

Yeah, for sure.

This is the screen.

It spans the entire instrument panel.

For those of you who can't see it, there is a vent, a circular vent on the right by the

passenger.

There's a circular vent on the left by the driver.

Everything between those vents at the extreme is one huge screen.

Mercedes announced a multi-year partnership with Liquid AI to scale embedded on-device

intelligent from Mercedes-Benz models with third and fourth generation M-Bucks in North

America.

This partnership is designed to advance the performance of real-time private and local

AI experiences for onboard services at scale enabling the next generation of in-car intelligence.

They keep saying, gives customers value and it's intelligence.

You know what I hear when you read that?

Ads are coming.

When I hear you read that, it just says to me in marketing speak, ads are coming.

There's a lot of real estate to put an ad up with a little X in the corner.

There's tons of real estate on that.

This evolves the M-Bucks virtual assistant by seamlessly integrating voice control, vehicle

functionality and contextual understanding into a more capable in-vehicle experience.

There is nothing on the dashboard but screen.

If you haven't seen this yet, you have to look it up because it is edge-to-edge screen.

Got a few more images here.

With vents on the edges and it is, I cannot believe it.

There is no dashboard.

It is just a screen.

See what's front and center is a camera looking into the passenger compartment.

Yes.

Right above the screen.

It's going to be looking how many people are in the car.

It's going to be reading reactions.

Who's talking to me?

What are you saying?

What are your gestures?

All of the above.

Are you having a discussion about food and you're on a road trip?

It's going to search the surrounding area and serve up ads.

Of course it will.

100% correct.

That verbiage is ads are coming folks.

It's almost like the Liquid AI partnership is going to turn the car into a sentient being

and be listening to your conversations and almost involved in them when you talk to the

car and you want to know EV charge stations, you want to know food, you want to know anything.

I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I'm tired and it will serve up locations and ads and discounts

and it might be connected to a credit card already in your wallet.

It might be.

I'll go dove his advocate on this.

We've all done this on a road trip.

You're driving along on a road trip.

Everybody got hungry.

Where are we going to eat?

And somebody invariably pulls up their phone and tells the map show me restaurants and

starts calling out restaurants and menus and star ratings and that kind of stuff.

And that person holding the phone is the keeper of all the info.

In a car like this, in that moment, this is brilliant because you can pull up, I guarantee

you, five or six tabs of the restaurants that are in play and they're all on the screen

in front of everybody and you can see the stars and I want to do that one, not that one.

What kind of food do you feel like?

Exactly.

Then when you touch the one you want to go to, it automatically goes to the nav.

In that moment, this will be brilliant.

Okay.

It will be.

It'll be awesome.

It'll be fantastic.

You traveling with the family, you need to find a gas station or whatever.

Awesome.

We need a Walmart done.

Yeah.

Okay.

But do we want to have an entire dashboard that is a screen?

And I say, no, I say, why are we, we're now driving down the road in our living room.

We're sitting on the couch looking at a TV screen.

By the way, there's windows there that somebody needs to be paying attention to.

I particularly like this image of didn't work hard enough.

Didn't make Diamond Club this year where all of your counterparts or coworkers or

vacationing in Hawaii will just give you a wave.

Simulated on the screen.

If you'll only worked harder.

I have less issue honestly with the potential intelligence and interactivity of this than

I do with the wall to wall screen.

Here's the wall to wall screen.

It's the seamless M bucks hyper screen, a thousand LEDs surround navigation, 39.1 inches.

There's not just one.

There's three.

It depends on which variant did want.

How much money are you paying?

What did you spec your car with?

Because the standard equipment on the left, I think this screen just exists with a clock

on it.

I don't think there's any.

You might be right.

I don't think anything goes on here for the standard version because the super screen

now that's interactive.

You're right.

That is.

That's where the ads are going to serve up.

That's where maybe your passenger watches movies and plays with apps.

Then the hyper screen is the big one that you know everybody really wants because there's

no break in the screen.

For those who can't see this, it's essentially one glass panel and in the lower two settings,

they've put essentially three smaller screens in the same big panel and the screens get

better and nicer from the base to the middle.

Then the upper one is this wall to wall screen, no break, super interactivity that we're all

anticipating.

I must ask from an interior design perspective, if we're now here, if the entire IP is a screen,

I don't care which one of these you choose.

Yeah.

We can't go back.

Future car design, future interior design, we can't go back.

If we go back to anything less than a glass panel with screens, I mean the only way forward

is you can't even see out the front windshield.

It's just one giant screen and it's cameras and pole stars got rid of the rear window.

How long do we get rid of the front window?

I could do a projection.

It's coming.

I mean, well, but this is every sci-fi film ever.

Every sci-fi film ever is the view screen is not actually glass with the exception of

Star Wars, like all the Star Trek and the deep space stuff and all that kind of stuff.

The screen is just that.

You're looking out the window, but it's just a screen.

It's just a projection.

Are we headed there with cars?

That's a terrifying thought.

You can't go back because other interior design is just, it'll look boring.

It'll look, it's not entertaining me, but I think it'll flip around.

There'll be those like the folks that want the analog.

I mean, this is, this is the Apple watch.

So the folks like yourself that want an analog watch with actual gauges, I think that will

continue to exist.

It'll be very niche and it'll be on very high end products while the rest of us stare at screens.

Last on my list here is a new feature, apparently a feature for this car where the seatbelt

strangles you.

If you come too fast to a corner, the seatbelt strangles you.

It's not what it says, Paul.

It's not what it says.

That's what I read into it.

That's what I read.

That is what you could read in.

It's a pre-safe curve function and it tightens the seatbelt.

If you come in just a little bit too hot in a corner, the seatbelt goes some sort of sound

place over the speakers.

I'm reading the actual description here that this is the best sentence ever.

This provides a warning to the driver and allows them to adjust their speed accordingly.

The seatbelt goes, are you paying attention?

Didn't you come in there a little hot?

I mean, look, I also, I hope and I do believe that Mercedes will have all of these features

as things you can turn off.

Okay.

When we've talked to the Mercedes car, we've always made a joke about whenever we say the

word Mercedes in a Mercedes review, we get interrupted.

I am aware you can turn these things off, but they exist.

Pre-save curve function.

It allows the driver to adjust their speed accordingly.

Hey, Moron, wasn't that a little fast?

Actually, you know what?

This has existed forever.

This has been moms throughout all of history.

When you're riding behind your child and you get freaked out, what do you do?

You grab their seat and you pull on their seatbelt.

I mean, moms have done this for all time and you go, mom, you're strangling me.

I'm not going too fast.

It's the new Mercedes mom.

It's the Mercedes mom.

Yes, exactly.

Mercedes mom.

Done.

We've talked about the Ferrari Luce, the EV coming.

It is supposed to be unveiled in Rome on Monday, May 25th, 2026.

That's Memorial Day in the US.

We are just as eager as you to find out what it looks like and exactly why it's expected

to start at 550,000 euro or $647,000 for an EV.

I've said already they're going to have trouble moving these and they're going to drop like stones.

If you'd never have to plug it in or something and it turns it, it's like the Ferrari perpetual

motion machine or something.

There you go.

That would be it.

Instead of like change your spark plugs every 100,000 miles, it's now plug it in every 100,000

miles and you otherwise never need to.

It just goes and goes and goes.

They figured out how to do enough solar that it just perpetuates itself.

The Lucid Air Sapphire is almost a quarter million dollar car.

Yeah.

I don't know what else you need from speed or range or comfort or tech that the Lucid Air

Sapphire can't give you that actually came out in 2024.

Well and also what's crazy is 650,000 dollars for an EV.

But then also going back to Lucid, you can get those Lucids for a song now.

That's where the used bargain is for sure.

So you'll get this interior.

This is all we know.

You've seen the interior.

This is all we know right now.

So it'll be a cool Johnny I've designed interior, Mark Newsen designed interior for 650,000.

I'm very curious.

Look, I am in this job constantly looking to be surprised.

Honestly, it is my favorite thing about driving cars for living and talking about cars for

living is when we get in something and I don't care what the price is and I just get

surprised by it.

It drives better than I thought.

It looks better than I thought.

It's more comfortable than I thought.

Whatever it is.

I just like being surprised by, oh my gosh, they really thought that through and that's

really cool.

It's way more expensive than I thought.

I hope this is surprising.

But I am concerned.

And to your point, quarter million dollar Lucid does everything you'll ever need an EV

to do and more.

I think the Lucid will still have longer range than whatever this is.

Probably.

And so then what are we buying?

What are we doing?

You can go out with $70,000 and get yourself an awfully nice Lucid that's used by a couple

years.

Yeah.

It's amazing how fast they drop.

I'm so curious.

No matter how amazing this is, what is its actual used value in a year?

Somebody buys one and there are people that buy them.

Somebody buys one, sells it in six months and a year after they originally bought it,

what is this worth?

Because Ferraris in general, they trickle down in cost.

True.

They trickle down.

And if they're desirable, they go up for a while when you sell them used.

What will this do?

Because if EVs have shown us anything, it's a race to the bottom.

In a completely unrelated note, tune in next year at this time.

We're going to be doing a series.

We will both own Lucid EVs because we will have bought them for $10,000 and we'll be

doing a full series on Ferraris Lucid EVs and why they weren't worth $650,000 and what

great they are to drive or something.

I don't know.

Hey, surprise me is all I have to say.

As we're talking about EVs and how EVs are changing in the market, literally the news

that they were recording this is that Porsche is getting out of Bugatti.

They have a 45% stake in the Bugatti Remock Combination Company, run by Mate Remock.

And Porsche, as they are resetting, because they're resetting all kinds of things, because

they buy regulations, they moved way into EV and now they are retracting, it's costing

them billions.

And so Porsche is taking the time to rethink what's valuable here and they have sold their

45% stake in that company to a, of course, a venture capital company, they have sold

it out so they are no longer a part of the Bugatti Remock Combination and they're pulling

stuff home to figure out their own stuff.

And I think that is fascinating.

We're just watching how EV attempts and resets are affecting all of these companies.

I was thinking about the 9-11 GTS Hybrid we drove that had the battery built by Remock.

Yes, it did.

Yes, for sure.

Remember that?

Yes, absolutely.

We were just curious and it has the traction battery where the normal battery is under

the cowl, so you lift up the panel and it said Remock, right on the battery, I'll find

that photo and publish it here, Porsche could continue to license that technology.

But I got the idea that was a Remock brainchild.

Maybe it was Porsche, but they had to use them to develop the system or something.

Yeah, I think there's a generator in the turbo.

Maintenance and battery tech that's coming from Remock, but I think the idea is a Porsche

idea.

Okay, maybe so.

But who knows?

It's not going to stop.

It's not going to stop, but in the new turbo, we've got two of them, the electric turbocharger

and the entire battery technology, they'll maybe find a different builder for that battery,

but that is going away, so what does it do to that model?

Maybe nothing, but I don't know.

I think all of that tech will stay around in the Porsche lineup, it's just they're not

going to worry about what's happening over in the Bugatti world, so it'll be fascinating.

Tomorrow morning is knocking, stock your fridge now, how about a creamy mocha Frappuccino

drink or a sweet vanilla, smooth caramel maybe, or a white chocolate mocha, whichever you

choose, delicious coffee awaits, find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.

Hopefully you're not surprised to hear we have a lot of really cool Hooked on Driving

events coming up all over the nation.

May 1st and Saturday, May 2nd is Ridge Motorsports Park, that's the Pacific Northwest region,

but the same weekend in the Northeast, Pocono Raceway is happening over there.

That is Saturday, May 2nd and Sunday, May 3rd, so which coast are you on for that weekend?

You can go to an H&D track day.

A couple of weeks later, the Laguna Seca Summer Adventure is happening.

That is Saturday, May 16th and May 17th at Laguna Seca, but the trick there is, for those

of you joining us on our really cool Monterey Driving Adventure, we will have been driving

for a couple of days prior to that, and then winding up, that's the 16th and 17th, at Laguna

Seca for the track day, so all of the above is happening there.

We will be in attendance, and then Oregon Raceway Park ORP, that is two hours east of Portland,

and the cool thing about this track that we keep being told is you run it one direction

Saturday and the other direction Sunday.

That is really cool.

That's right.

That is a Pacific Northwest region again, May 23rd and Sunday, May 24th.

That is happening then, and then that is Memorial Day weekend.

The weekend after Memorial Day, I think there might be three spots left.

CODA, Circuit of the Americas.

We keep talking about it, but it's amazing.

We're working down to the very last few spots.

We're not having people fighting over the last few days.

It's going to be very cool.

A couple of really cool days, May 30th and 31st, in Austin, Texas, Circuit of the Americas,

we are having possibly the biggest event in the history of hooked on driving is happening

that weekend.

If you aren't driving, come anyway.

There are actually going to be a lot of people that are going to be there just as spectators.

That's right.

And I believe it's Saturday afternoon.

We are going to rent out and open the tower.

If you haven't seen CODA from the tower, you'll be able to Saturday afternoon.

We are renting that out to give people that opportunity.

So if you want to come and play spectator, it'll be an amazing couple of days for that

as well.

Plus we're going to do a podcast that night.

That is going to be a huge event.

So yes, as you said, y'all come now.

It's a Texas thing to do that.

You better believe it.

Yes.

Three car debates incoming.

The first one from John L.

In Canton, Georgia, he's an Air Force veteran and here he is.

He's got a 2013 base model 370 Z that he has owned from the dealership.

He's modded everything pretty much still in long tube headers, FI cat back, poured

plantament intake manifold, CSC elimination kit with performance pressure plate, unsprung

clutch, a different ring gear.

I mean, he's done so much this car and he's driven it a lot.

He loves driving it, but he just turned 62.

He's had several back surgeries and his days of enjoying manual transmission driving,

clutch driving is going to come to an end.

That's too bad.

He cannot do the standard sedan though.

He's looked at a 2015 and newer Nissan GTR since learning 2015's and newer have a better

ride, something that isn't going to kill his back theoretically.

He's also looked at Audi RS5 coupes from 2018 ish.

He's considered the Cadillac CT5V black wing, but the four door size limits the nimble ride

he's used to with the Z.

He just doesn't see it making him happy.

I can see that.

Yeah.

That's a much bigger car than a Z.

I mean, cool drive.

Yeah, absolutely.

But but not the Bible is he's going, he's going for you.

He has looked at the classic 68 to 72 American muscle cars, but enjoys the modern touches.

And then he also writes he worries about European sports car parts and maintenance costs, but

has found the Nissan parts market seems more reasonable.

Part of his logic is he know a day will come when he his mind knows how to fix and work

on cars, but his body will not agree with doing that.

So with all these cars listed, his price range is from about 50 K to high nineties.

Are there makes and models that he's missing that he hasn't mentioned?

Yes, there are.

I think I've got your car.

I've got a few too.

Yeah.

He has a mental block against Porsche and BMW for some of the costs and maintenance, but

also a mental bias from bad experiences of owners of those cars that have jaded his opinion

for decades.

Interesting.

Okay.

All right.

He knows some of this is not rational, but he doesn't know how to get past it.

This image is from 2013, just after he brought the the Z home and then he's been modding

and tuning it ever since ever since ever since the photo.

So it's cool to see the car, I mean, looking brand new, look at the smile on your face.

Looking awesome.

He does send us his car history.

His first car was a 73 Pinto that did not blow up.

Yeah.

I mean, he survived clearly.

Yeah.

It's good.

1976 Mustang to Cobra blew its engine 1982 Thunderbird with a 2.3 turbo.

He bought and built 68 Chevelle with a truck 350 he had to sell when they he and his family

got stationed in England for the Air Force.

After he returned to the States, he went through several block cars, got a Mustang GT from

the year 2000 and then finally got this 2013 370Z base model, 107,000 miles on it.

It's very cool.

Good for you.

He's really enjoyed it.

Good for you.

That's awesome.

Want to touch on your bias and you know, you're not wrong.

There is a perception, but there's certainly a perception around almost every car brand.

You could name the stereotype and you could name the perception of Nissan buyers are this

way.

Porsche buyers are this way.

BMWs.

Tesla buyers are this way.

Yep.

Toyota buyers do this.

Insert, you know, everything.

And so what we've always encouraged you, our listening audience, our viewing audience

to do is always drive the car for what it is.

Drive it and not imagining the badge on the nose.

Imagine how you would feel.

Yes, there's always perception.

It doesn't always work in all cases, but we want you to discover amazing cars as if

you tape the badge on the steering wheel, the horn button, you tape that off and then

you went for a drive and you came back and went, wow, it surprised me because of good

ways or bad ways.

That's been our headspace from the very beginning.

Some first videos we've ever done is tape off the logos and now go for a drive and tell

me what you think.

For sure.

Anything like that.

This is nothing like I thought it was going to be.

Yeah, for sure.

It happens all the time.

I want you to think of you driving the car, you owning the car and would you really enjoy

it?

And we've had to get past some of them, you know, owning some of the cars that we've

had.

Like, well, I just like it and I'm going to own it anyway.

The sign for us.

You're like, well, the cops think I'm 16.

I don't care.

I told the story before I had the cop pull me over one night.

He was young enough where I was old enough.

I could have been his dad and I guarantee you when he looked at the way because I saw it

in his face.

He looked in the window.

He was a young officer and he was fully expected.

The person behind the wheel is going to be half his age, not twice his age.

And he looked at the window and there was this beat and then he went, good evening,

sir.

Anyway, it's totally happened right there.

All right.

So I'm diving in with with solutions for you, John, and on the table should be a new

Nissan Z.

That's a good one.

Why not?

They do come in automatic.

They come with a lot of power.

You don't have to wrench on it.

The beautiful thing about Z's is they're not Supras.

The Supras admittedly have a tighter, smaller cabin and the Z feels like it's it's spacious.

There's plenty of room.

It's a nice GT car.

It's built on the bones of the car he owns and loves.

Exactly right.

So I cannot get away with not starting here.

That's very good.

It's the next generation of what you already own and love.

What about a new Z?

God's a power.

Great to drive.

Good GD car.

I think you would really love owning one of these.

That's probably true.

Yeah.

If you want something slightly more hardcore, that Nismo comes in an automatic.

True.

So again, no more clutch driving, but it's the car we think should have been built from

the first from the get go in the Nismo Z.

It gives you that feeling that I think you're looking for.

It's a serious sports car.

Not that any of these others that I'm going to suggest aren't, but it might resonate better.

And I cannot not suggest a Corvette.

The new C8 Stingray comes with that 6.7 liter V8.

Yep.

More power.

The Grand Sport has just been introduced.

Pick a C8 Stingray.

They are so great at road trips.

They're so comfortable to drive.

They're great around town.

They're easy to park, easy to get in and out.

Corvette engineers and designers did a fantastic job on this car, meeting so many design braves,

meeting so many people's needs with this car.

You can track the daylights out of these things.

You can do all the things that you're used to doing, and I think you would love having

a Corvette.

Put all your biases aside.

But there is one that I think you should buy.

It is the Lexus LC 500.

Ooh, that's a good choice.

You keep saying this is the Corvette that people think that they're buying.

The classic Corvette buyer, the guy that has saved up his whole life and has never had

a sports car.

Okay, and I know this is a stereotype, but it exists.

Okay, my father is this.

Okay?

Saved up their whole life.

Been good, not bought sports cars.

Now they get to that retirement age-ish, and they decide they want to buy a Corvette.

The car they want to have that does everything they're hoping it will do, which is look amazing,

doesn't need to be driven fast, to be driven cross-country, is super comfortable.

It's the LC 500, not the Corvette.

This is where the other stereotype comes in.

The typical Corvette driver isn't going to drive the car quickly, isn't going to search

for the edges, which the Corvette does better than the LC 500.

True.

Everything else, the LC 500 does better.

If you're a person looking for GT, hangout, isn't my car cool driving, you know the Corvette

can do that, but the LC 500 does it better.

Rip this to red line.

Yes.

I went searching.

We've said for a while now.

I mean, this is a collectible classic now, and it's still for sale right now.

It's very cool.

Pick any of them.

Go look.

And that's what I did.

I picked a random one.

Just a 2018 base model LC 500 in that great red 46,000 miles for 63.

That is dead on in your budget.

That's actually the lower end of your budget.

I think you would love looking at this car, love driving it.

The engine sounds great.

You can rip it.

It's going to be reliable.

It's a Toyota.

It's going to be really luxurious, well built.

This is your car, John.

I think this is the one you need to go drive, look at.

It doesn't have the perception that you're talking about with Porsche or BMW or any

other brand and just whenever I see somebody driving this, I don't really think of any

stereotype.

I just think good choice, honestly, agree.

Nothing beyond just like good for you.

Beautiful car, fun to drive, great in every category.

That's very good.

It's very good.

It's almost like there's nothing attached, no strings attached to this one.

It's just go enjoy.

Go get one.

Pick a price, pick your mileage, pick your color.

They're for sale out there, autotempus.com every day, but you can find a lot of them.

Look at this list.

I found a ton of them.

You scroll to the list.

All different prices.

I had this, I think, set at the lowest price.

So the one you see here at the top has 120,000 miles for $50,000.

And it's going to keep running.

It'll be great.

That V8 that's in there is going to run forever.

The interior is probably fantastic and that's blue with a tan, which I would definitely

choose.

But yeah, pick any of them.

Go for a test drive.

I think you'd love this car, Jon.

Bravo.

You know what?

When I was making my list, and Jon, I have some other stuff for you, but when I was making

my list, I kept feeling like I'm missing something that really works here.

You found it.

That's exactly the car that I've been missing.

I don't think of anything.

I just think of great choice.

You're right.

It's a very good car.

Go get one.

Jon, this is really interesting.

I think Paul did amazingly well with that LC500 and this is the car that I forgot on my list.

But I want to ease my way into what I think you're asking for first and then give you

some ideas.

And I also want to push back on you a little bit for some of the things that you're feeling

coming into this.

What I get from this, Jon, is we're talking about you've had a front engine rear-drive

small-ish sports car.

You'd like to maintain most of that list.

Front engine rear-drive small-ish, okay?

That's something you'd kind of like to maintain.

But we need to add automatic, comfy ride, easy in-out.

We're talking about back problems here and halfway decent maintenance.

You're willing to maintain it.

You're just worried about having something that is super-needy, okay?

So this is kind of how I work my way into this.

But Jon, I'm going to start with the car you think you want.

And I went and found one.

And with your budget of $90,000 on the high end, I found one that is about as new and

nice as you can get for that money, a 2015 Nissan GTR Black Edition.

It has 61,000 miles.

They want essentially 90 grand for it, 89,990, okay?

You said you wanted 2015s and up because you've heard they ride better and be better for your

back.

First off, for $90,000, 2015 is about as new as you're going to find.

Most of the ones you're finding for this budget below 90 are the early ones, 2010s, 2012s,

2014s.

Finding a 2015 in that range is hard.

Interesting.

I pulled this one up because it isn't ranked.

But here's the main thing I want to say to you, Jon.

This car is going to be horrifying to maintain, okay?

You're worried about Porsches.

You're worried about BMWs for maintenance.

I promise you that the GTR is going to be more expensive to maintain than any Porsche

or BMW you might choose.

That is the thing.

Yes, your Z car has been easy to maintain.

I get it.

Nissan parts don't have the Porsche markup.

Everyone we know that's had a GTR, the first thing they've told us when we've asked about

their ownership experience is, my God, this car is expensive to own.

This is not the typical Nissan category of, hey, they just run an easy, I mean, it just

runs, but everything here with a lot of money, everything here is bespoke.

Everything here is special for this car.

And everything here has a very aggressive maintenance schedule.

So whatever your experience has been with your Z, Jon, throw it out because these are

wildly expensive to maintain.

And here is my argument for you, because I actually think what you're looking for, auto,

small, easy in out, good to drive, feels kind of special like your Z car, you really are

describing a 911.

I have a 2015 Porsche 911 here.

This is the Carrera S 2 door, 40,000 miles for 85.5.

So it is the same year and the same cost as that GTR.

Here is my argument.

I bet you money.

This 2015 911 will be less expensive to own than the 2015 GTR.

Interesting.

I bet you it would be, Jon.

I don't have actual, I haven't done this, but everyone we know.

It's not a miracle data.

Seriously, everything, everyone we know that's owned a GTR just talks about how

thirsty they are for your wallet.

That's true.

In spite of the fact that there is a Porsche tax to maintain a 911.

And in spite of the fact that I understand, Jon, you're dealing with a perception issue.

The reality is this car would be brilliant for everything you want.

And I feel very confident if it were me spending 90 grand and I were worried about

which one's going to cost more to maintain, I would buy the 911 immediately

because the GTR is terrifying to own.

So you could do a 2015 911.

This is a nice, clear aspect for the same prices that GTR and probably own it with

a better long term reality.

So I'm putting that out there.

The other car that you could get that you don't want to look at, but I'm putting

these in driving home before you, Jon, before you buy the non-Porsche, non-BMW,

please drive at least a 2015-ish, the 991 generations or 2012, 2013 and up.

Drive the 991 generation 911 and also drive an M2.

Oh, that's good.

Drive an M2, drive a 911.

It's a low miles.

This is a 12,000 mile BMW M2, the base model when they first came out.

It's a 2018 for 46.5.

Come on now.

Oh, and that's in Salt Lake City.

Yes, come on now.

This thing would be awesome.

But so go drive an M2, any variant that you want, drive a 911 and drive it like Paul

said, drive it with not thinking about the badge.

Do I like this?

And here's the better question.

When you get out of it, what did I like about that?

Because it's not going to be the badge.

What did you like about it?

Because I bet you there's stuff.

Okay, it's excellent.

So the BMW M2.

Now I'm leaving cars you said you don't want to buy, even though I'm giving you

that drive homework.

So I'm saying no to GTR.

I'm saying consider the BMW M2 and the 911, at least drive them.

But now let me get other things that I think you should really consider because I

think they may meet all your requirements.

Jaguar F-Type, my friend, the first time I'm showing you, I had to show because I

can't believe it's this cheap 2016 all wheel drive automatic with 134,000 miles

on it's been that's up there.

Okay, but it's $16,000.

I feel like a YouTube this is the bottom of the market here.

Folks, don't don't get this one, John.

I'm not saying by the cheapest one you can find, but I thought this was amazing.

Let me think, let me jump here because this is 134,000 miles.

Let's take 100,000 miles off the clock and you get this car, a 2020

checkered flag edition all wheel drive, 34,800 miles for 52 grand.

This is going to have this is kind of leaning toward Paul's Lexus, even though

the Lexus might be a better call, front engine, rear drive, or in this case,

all wheel drive, but automatic, nice place to be, easy in and out.

This does all the things.

And every time I drive an F type, it surprises me for how well it rotates.

You want something small with good rotation.

These are always surprising.

And I find it interesting.

It's happened on a couple of our adventure films and our adventure

trips with people where somebody will have an F type and others will drive it

and to a person, they get out and go, that rotates really well.

It's much better to drive than I thought it was going to be.

These are really cool.

Don't get the $15,000 one, even though.

Can you believe that 16 grand for that car?

That does seem like something we would buy and regret.

Anyway, the miles and price slider exactly back and forth.

Exactly right.

Anyway, 34,000 miles, got you 52 grand.

Anyway, moving on from the Jaguar F type, an Audi TT RS.

This is a totally different animal.

You don't see a whole lot of these.

I've got a 19,000 mile one here for 65 grand and a really cool blue.

2019 Audi TT RS coupe.

This is a totally different feel.

But what I like about this is small with good rotation.

Yeah, that's what you're going to like about this.

It is a very different feel than your Z, but it's something else.

But following the trend of what your Z is like.

If I think about the progression of your Z car, long nose, rear wheel drive, etc.

I have to wind up at a Corvette Grand Sport C7.

I have a couple of them here.

First one is a 2019 Grand Sport 2LT for 60 grand with 21,000 miles on it.

That's sweet looking.

That's like go get that right now.

I like that orange too.

It's awesome in orange.

It looks great there.

So that's a great one for right at 59 grand.

But I have another one here and that is 69 grand for a 2019 also in orange.

So we've got two different years here.

No, sorry, two of the same year, just different places in the country.

But this one only has 7,600 miles on it.

7,600 miles, 2019 in somebody's garage.

Somebody barely drove this thing.

That's pretty much a new car because it's going to be awesome to drive.

So essentially $69,000 for a Corvette Grand Sport.

I don't know why you'd need to go anywhere else unless you want something

a little less hardcore than this.

And then I think you go back to where you were, Paul, and you just get an LC 500.

I think you nailed it.

I think you did really, really well.

John, I could totally see you rocking any of these, actually.

But the LC is just, I mean, we all need to buy LC's.

I think they're going to start doing this kind of thing.

And they're a collectible classic.

And also they're going to be really reliable.

I think you did really, really well.

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For our next car debate, Matthew's writing in from Houston, which means

traffic.

Really?

Oh, yes.

Houston is traffic.

Houston is a monster city.

You've never been there.

Lots of traffic only getting more, but he's shopping for his kids.

It's very interesting.

$13,000 Houston, Texas standoff is the subtitle here because we have a son with

dreams of one kind of car and parents with dreams of reality and a $13,000

hard budget hanging in the balance.

That's where we are.

Matthew, thank you for writing.

Their 17 year old son is currently driving a hand-me-down 2016 Ford Explorer XLE.

It's only 10 years old, which I'm sure he describes as fine.

It's I'm sure it's yes.

It does the job, right?

Yes.

But Matthew's son wants something cooler and funner.

Edmonds has offered them $13,000 for it, and that is their strict budget.

No doubling the price.

They want him to understand the value of a dollar and he is a younger sibling who

will expect the exact same deal in a few years.

Got it.

So not only, so first off, Matthew's listened to this podcast before.

So that's why he's giving us like restrictions.

Yeah.

And he's also saying we are not alone.

We are all being watched.

Okay.

Whatever happens with kid one, kid two is going to expect at least that good a

treatment.

So 13 grand that is for real.

Yes.

My best behavior here.

The tone of your email Matthews would suggest you're very strict and firm.

And I, I'm going to do my best here.

So the son's vote, we don't know your son's name.

He's dreaming of a Nissan Z car.

And when I read that, I thought you could buy John's in Georgia, but then I

realized it was super modded.

Yeah.

And $13,000 and I don't think John would you want to sell your car?

It'd be going to a good home and Matthew's son would really appreciate it, but

I don't think it's quite right.

But I, I saw that and I thought, Oh, John could sell the car to Matthew's son.

And then John go good.

Yeah, it goes and get something else.

So he's dreaming of this 350 Z older 350 Z or a higher mileage, mileage three 70

Z at this $13,000 price point or a fiesta ST.

Yes, we are here to sell you all fiesta STs.

The parents vote.

They're looking at a Toyota RAV four or the Mazda three hatchback.

He once mentioned you're dragging up past arguments.

You're dragging up past comments.

Say, remember that and you're using it against your son by saying, yeah, you

mentioned that and maybe you, maybe there's more to that conversation, but

obviously he wants something sporting fun.

Yep.

Here's the context.

Matthew, he says, his family has a Tesla Model three and a Model I bought for

practicality, not status.

Houston traffic is aggressive.

Yep.

Safety is huge.

And this car also needs to survive four years of college.

So we're trying to buy a $13,000 car for his son.

No more than that, but it will last through four years of college.

I mean, I will say right now, the $13,000 Z car is not the Z car you want.

Fair car needs to last through four years of college, which Matthew, I'm going to

say this to you.

Please don't buy a car at 13 grand and expect it to last X amount of time.

Okay, because at $13,000, just put it in perspective at $13,000, most of the cars

you're going to find that you're halfway interested in are close to 100,000 miles.

Maybe it lasts four years.

Maybe it blows up in two.

I'm sorry, but that's what we're talking about at $13,000.

All right, we're going to do our best here.

But I think this is one of those situations where you have to be buying

a car for right now and hoping it has a long life.

Okay.

$13,000.

Okay.

If we're just shopping for long life, we're shopping differently, but we're

trying to shop for something that his son will like to drive, that his parents will

handle.

I'd like to think it's going to be around in four years, but if it isn't, it

can't be a black mark on any of your son or your car experience.

It's just, we got to move on.

Anyway, Matthew writes with exactly $13,000 to play with.

Is there a third way?

Something that feels cool to a 17 year old, but doesn't cause a panic attack.

Matthew and his wife see the insurance premium or the crash test ratings.

Does that Mazda three satisfy both camps or is there a forgotten

enthusiast car that fits the budget and won't break at midterms?

I'm going to address first, Matthew, your comment about the RAV4 and the Mazda

three, how many doors do both of those cars have?

That means your son is going to be the one to be asked to drive all of his

friends everywhere.

That means more people in the car.

Interesting point.

So you have to ask yourself, do you want all of your son's friends in the car

with him, or do you want just a two door two seat car where he is less

distracted, only one passenger, more sporty?

I'm making the argument for you, Matthew, son, because I had a Jeep grand

Cherokee, well, it's just a Cherokee then, but it fit all my friends.

Guess who was always doing the driving.

Like, sure, we're taking balls because we can fit everybody in the back.

No seat belts.

Everybody's in the far back.

Everybody's piled in.

I was like, there's like 13 people in this car.

Well, let's go to lunch.

Well, and while you're here, let me, let me speak to something else, Matthew.

And that is Paul and I are going to give you ideas, but you're going to have

to look up the insurance reality of all of these, which could change.

I just don't know.

Here's the thing you have to understand about insurance for all drivers,

but especially for the under 25 drivers under 25 males.

This is when they really stick you for insurance costs.

But here's the crazy thing.

It's never the cars you think.

Right.

Okay.

If you're buying brand new, it's the cars you think.

Right.

It's brand new Ferrari, 16 year old driver.

You may as well buy a Ferrari again for the insurance cost.

But I'm talking these old used things.

What happens is it's all down to the spreadsheets and the stats.

And it isn't about how the car was, how expensive it was new.

And it isn't even about how expensive it is to fix.

It's literally about, this is how the stats come, how many 16 year olds

have wrecked one.

And so what's crazy is if you look this up, it's in some markets, one

of the most expensive cars for young people to buy and drive is a Honda Civic.

Not because it's a bad car, not because they're expensive to fix, but because

so many young drivers have wrecked them.

So the insurance company went, not anymore, you're not right.

So that's the thing.

You're going to have some of these are going to seem way out there.

I know some of my choices are going to seem way out there, but I submit to

you, look it up because we've also had sometimes when young drivers have

gotten crazy deals on Miata's for insurance.

And you would think, well, death trap and a 16 year old is going to

wreck that car, but 16 year olds don't drive them.

So the stats aren't there and the Honda Civics getting overcharged for.

I want to tell you, VSS team and Cooper S not going to show you an image.

You know what those look like.

And, and yes.

Good choice.

Yeah.

For sure.

All of my searching here is on auto tempest.com starting with the

Cyan FRS and I started here because just typing 13 grand into the search

engine here for auto tempest leaves you many of these and I bring this up.

I mean, this technically is a four seat car, but insurance can vary.

You're right.

It depends on if like Honda Civics in your zip code and that's the most

stolen car in that zip code.

Well, that'll be the most expensive to ensure.

It doesn't matter that it's.

What's a lowly Honda Civic?

What could possibly be wrong or a cords or Camry's or it's very strange and

selecting others outside of that weird insurance bubble that metric.

Yep.

You can find better ones.

What I'm going to lean on here is you're thinking crash test ratings and

safety and safety in terms of my son is going to survive the giant crash.

I envision him getting into, I hope I know where you're going.

I think I know where you're going.

So that means you should buy a suburban.

Yes, you need to buy a shipping container with bubble wrap and put it on wheels.

That's that thinking.

Yes.

And we've discussed this many times.

I maintain the safest cars, the one your son learns to drive very precisely with

as few distractions as possible.

If it's an automatic and not a manual like this, well, that phone's going to

come out and I see this too much.

Yes, it's the worst.

The phone's going to come out.

I'm looking at the phone and you're distracted.

If it's a manual transmission, your son is busy driving, especially in traffic.

You're going to be traffic busy, busy, watching mirrors, looking at traffic,

looking at that car that just cut that one off and I'm constantly busy.

There's stuff to do.

I forgot that I even own a phone.

That's what I want.

Yeah, fair point.

I also want you to teach your son the value, not of a dollar, but the value

of responsibility, his first speeding ticket.

It's coming.

It happened to me, happened to all of us.

It's a thing.

So when you have a hot sports car and you are speeding, now you're taking full

responsibility for that because maybe you're a little bit more of a target.

So it's learning how to be responsible.

I have this machine.

I need to be responsible and caring for it, how I drive it, the perception.

I want as few passengers and I want you to be busy, Matthew's son.

And finally, the responsibility of maintaining something that isn't an

appliance, the brand four, the Mazda three, something that he feels a little

special about.

Yeah, that's good.

Those are throwaway cars.

You don't have to maintain.

Oh, I forgot to change the oil two years ago.

Maybe I should think about it.

Will it keep running?

Probably.

That's the problem.

Yeah, fair point.

You're not teaching car maintenance that way at all.

Are you?

Car maintenance where it's parked responsibility with all the financial,

sure, but keeping a machine well maintained and being proud of something

means his level of interest is going to be much higher on the scale, whether

that, well, my parents bought me a toaster.

I don't care about it.

They don't care about it.

Yeah, fair.

Insurance companies don't care about it.

Nobody cares about it.

So it's throwaway.

It got a ding.

It's like, screw it.

It's not worth much.

And about, no, you got him a driver's car, an enthusiast car.

I'm careful about it.

I'm not precious with it, but I'm careful about where I park.

I'm cognizant of how I drive it, where I drive it, who's driving it.

Yeah, that's good.

I lean on these things as more about responsibility, more so than the dollar.

And then when we talk about dollars, do you know what $13,000 will buy you besides

a RAV4 and a Mazda 3?

Not only a Scion FRS, but Hyundai Genesis Coupes.

As far as the eye can see, we can go back to BMW Z3s, which are a load of fun.

Yeah, that might not pass the parent safety test, but they are very, very

fun, small, nimble, and finally Z4s.

Same thing here.

Yeah, there's, these are so good.

Take care of these.

They're going to be reliable.

And finally, all of these from a safety standpoint handle better, probably break

better, and certainly your driver is going to be paying more attention in driving

these to avoid the accident in the first place or see it coming.

Or be able to avoid.

You're not just part of a pile up and you're hoping the tin can around you

doesn't get crushed, paint the picture that you want.

But this is the car that's the nimble, fun little sports car that can

avoid the trucks that has the power to out accelerate the semis that get down

the on ramp.

And suddenly that's going to ramp up your son's driving skills more and more.

Of course, bring it to a hooked on driving track day near you.

That'd be good.

Yes, we would love to see you get skill on track because that absolutely

translates to your attention level and awareness on the road on the street.

But I'm making the case here.

It's the value of a dollar.

Yes, but it's the value of responsibility for having this car from the get go.

It's not all my friends are piling into my giant Jeep and I don't care and slam

the door and park it anywhere and sure, sure.

Bash a curb and which is easy to get into.

Would you have that?

Oh, I'm taking care of it.

It's yeah, it's a prideful thing.

And you know, you're going to be busy with college for sure.

But this is road trips and taking care of it and doing well with the car.

And that will ramp up your skills.

I think more so than just some sort of throwaway car.

I like that.

And it's proven true actually with my son who is utterly obsessed with his very

inexpensive Mini Cooper and he's obsessed with is it clean?

Do I have fresh oil in it?

Because it burns a little bit of oil because it's got nearly 200,000 miles

on a Mini Cooper.

So of course it burns oil.

So he puts oil in and he checks.

I mean, he came home yesterday and he said, Hey, dad, I'm going to check my oil.

I was like, good, good, good.

16 year olds don't check their oil.

Exactly right.

But I taught him.

I was like, buddy, if this gets too bad, you're going to blow your engine.

And this thing we know is burning oil.

So you need to check your oil every three or four gas tanks.

And he came home yesterday and he's like, Hey, dad, I got gas.

I'm going to check my oil.

I was like, good, good for him.

So look, my son's an outlier.

He's my son.

He's been obsessed with cars for a long time because I'm obsessed with cars.

I get it.

But I think your point is very valid.

And this was the big argument that my wife and I had.

I say argument because that's too strong.

But the big discussion we had when we started talking about cars for him,

I wanted super small and light, like, OK, let's get into Miata's.

And that was the bridge too far for my wife who came from the camp of what's

the largest body on frame truck possible for my little baby?

OK, so she came from one Sierra 2500.

Exactly. And I came from the other end and to her credit,

she came quickly with me to, you know what?

He's to be busy and he needs to be able to feel what the car does.

So that got us already down to small ish cars, but Miata's were too small.

Z four, Z three, they were too small.

She was worried about convertible.

But we ended up agreeing on many, which we can all agree is very small.

But the FRS was in discussion for all this kind of stuff.

Having a car with dynamics is important.

But I, Matthew, I'm going to assume that you and your family are going to have

to be bigger than that. That's that's my guess.

You're going to be bigger than that.

In spite of that reality, I'm sorry.

But I just can't ignore the blatantly obvious reality that with $13,000,

you do have your pick of many coopers.

There's so many.

There's so many 70,000 miles, 70,000 miles.

That's why I brought this up because it's 70,000 miles,

two thousand, too many Cooper for six grand.

So no super chart.

What I actually did, just so you know, all the cars I'm going to bring up

because I thought you're spending $13,000, Matthew,

you're not going to go much further than like Dallas for this car.

You're not flying cross country.

So I tried to search within 100 miles of Houston zip codes,

but I did have a couple.

This is an outlier in Dallas, but I knew you weren't going to go too far

for a $13,000 car.

But many Cooper has to be mentioned.

But beyond that, I was trying to think something that your son might go,

Oh, really? That's an option and you'll not be terrified.

OK, how about a one series BMW, a 2011 BMW 128 I?

This is $8,000.

It has a hundred thousand miles.

Now, this is at momentum BMW in Houston, Texas.

This is right in your backyard.

OK, this is a cool little BMW.

It has all the dynamic stuff you're talking about with an FRS.

Paul, this is a good car with good dynamics.

It's not very big.

You can really learn to drive this thing.

That is very, very cool.

It's also a BMW.

So it has some cache.

Yes, you could argue to me right now.

It's a BMW. What's the insurance going to cost?

This is what I'm saying.

Look it up.

I bet you it's not as bad as you think.

I'm wondering about these because this is not a common car.

And it's 2011.

That's the other thing you have to understand about insurance,

especially for kids cars.

Once cars get super cheap, so is the insurance.

Yeah, because what they'll do is they'll be like the car.

This in this case, the car was $8,000 and he wrecked it this morning

and we just rode it off.

There's no like, what's it going to cost to fit?

It's going to the junkyard.

These are I hate to say this with you at this level.

These are disposable cars for teenagers.

I hate to say it, but $8,000.

2011 BMW with 100,000 miles.

The other thing you have to know is at $13,000,

most everything's close to 100,000 miles.

It's true.

OK, you're going to have to maintain.

Learn to maintain it, learn to.

Do I think, OK, let's go this way.

Do I think this car goes to 160,000 in the next four years?

Yes, I do.

No part of me thinks it doesn't.

Keep it maintained.

This car would last a while.

So there's a 128 BMW, but there's not the only one.

How about a 228 I jumped up a bit.

2014 right now I'm at $12,888.

I'm just under $13,000.

That's great.

This has 72,000 miles on it.

It's being sold at a Lexus dealer in Houston.

It happens to be white, which I don't love,

but a two series BMW, a 2014.

These are great cars to drive.

And I also bet you again, this is both of these,

the 128 and 228.

This is the base engine.

OK, so it's not super powerful, which

keeps the insurance down.

It keeps the speeding tickets down.

They may still happen.

But it keeps the speeding tickets down.

I am showing you two examples because there

were a ton of BMWs in your price range, in your area.

If you do this, the discussion is coming.

You bought your kid a BMW.

Yes.

Who are you?

You know that's coming, but you've got a good story

to go with it.

You wouldn't believe with these costs.

You wouldn't believe the value that I got.

Exactly right.

Then you've got the story, which is exactly what we've

always been about.

You wouldn't believe these are $13,000.

Did you know these are $13,000?

Well, let me go back to the 2011 128i.

Like this.

No part of that car says I cost $8,000.

Agreed.

You see your car in the same way my son's mini was, $4,200?

No, it wasn't.

$8,000 BMW 128i.

People are going to see this car and assume, Matthew,

that you bought your kid a $30,000 car.

And knew, yes.

Now, $8,000.

But there's going to be pride of ownership.

Money left over from your budget.

So anyway, $128,000, $228,000, and I even went to $320,000.

2018, I got, notice I got newer.

I started at 2011 BMWs.

2014, now I'm at a 2018 base three series four door

for under $13,000 with 83,000 miles on it.

Will this run for the next four years?

Yes, it will.

I promise you, right now in your household,

there is a fight going on because BMW was off the table.

Pause the podcast, fight for the while.

I'm bringing it right back on the table because why not?

Yeah.

Okay, these are safe.

They will run, yes, the insurance is a question mark,

but this is why I wound up at a four door base three series,

which frankly is not an overly expensive car

to maintain and ensure.

So that's the BMW thing, but I kept going

because your son wanted a Z car.

No Z car, but you know what does work?

You can get an Infinity G37.

I've got a 2011 limited edition.

This one happens to be 13.9.

I'll admit it, in the auto tempest I put in 14,000

because I know you can talk people down.

13.9 for 90,000 miles.

This is the VQ engine that he wants

in a slightly less flashy package.

This is a nicer package, you could argue.

By the way, do you hear in, where was it?

South Dakota or somewhere?

There's a cars and coffee that just has now banned

all VQ engine cars.

Oh, I did see that, yeah.

This would count, but you don't live in there, so fine.

That's right.

So 2011, Infinity G37, these have not held their value.

They do run well.

They have that Z car engine.

Nicer, more comfortable place to be.

Yes, for sure.

Like that.

You can find them without them,

because the problem with the Z cars,

the cheap Z cars is somebody's turned it into a drifter.

It's beat on, the $13,000 Z car you do not want.

And there's perception with insurance companies.

There's just perception, like oh,

I think I know who you are.

This is a businessman's car.

That's what the insurance company sees, okay?

They don't see a sports car, they see a businessman's car.

So this is Infinity G37.

Matthew, son, I'm trying to get you close to your Z car.

That's as close as I can get.

That's good.

Now I'm gonna back off to something

the parents are probably gonna like more than his son.

I'm still gonna go there.

Mazda 6 Grand Touring, this is the loaded Mazda 6.

I think this is a better car,

more interesting car to drive than the Mazda 3.

You can get actually a surprising amount for your money

and surprisingly recent cars here.

This is $10,000.

The Grand Touring is the upper level trim.

This has 55,000 miles on it.

This is such a value.

That's crazy.

2014, I cannot believe this,

but I have another one here that is a more recent,

this is a 2017 Mazda 6 Grand Touring for $13,000

to with 117,000 miles on it.

Both of these are in the Houston area.

That's great.

Didn't 2014's, this came with a manual transmission

for a short time.

I forget which model it is.

I think they might've, but I,

it was just a short time.

With your shopping manual, I mean autos in this case,

but look.

This is excellent.

The Mazda 6, we had a couple of these

on one of our adventures one year.

The Mazda 6 has a much better chassis

than it has any right to.

These handle surprisingly well.

They do, they do.

This is a more of a full-size car

than the others we've talked about.

It's probably more of, I'm also gonna guess,

a more of a parent-approved car,

but they're still pretty cool.

Matthew's son, my money for you

is on a used BMW Take Care Of,

but I had to show you these others

because I think there's good stuff in here,

and you have to tell us what you got.

I'm so fascinated to hear,

and this is going to be the beginning

of a lot of family discussion.

We just want to hear the results.

In email form, what was the fight?

Who won?

What did you decide on?

What did you go drive?

What did you shop for?

What stood out?

What didn't?

We've given you lots of choices, Matthew.

Thank you so much.

And when it comes time for your daughter to get a car,

please consider the Ferrari Luce EV

because in two years, they'll be $13,000.

$13,000.

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Andy K writes to us for the next daily.

He is a longtime listener.

Andy, thank you so much.

First time writer, really appreciate you writing to us.

Andy is currently in a Lucid air touring for his daily.

For his weekend fun car,

he's got a 1989 BMW E30 touring.

Andy has realized that he really wants

a manual transmission car as his next daily.

The lease on his Lucid is up very soon.

So far, he's managed to test drive

a Honda Civic Type R, a Toyota GR86, Lotus Amira,

and a Porsche Cayman S.

The only vehicle he has not driven yet

is a Cadillac CT5V Blackwing.

But for now, he's narrowed it down to the Amira.

He would love to get his hands on a Blackwing

to see how it drives.

Andy, I don't quite know where you live,

but if you're near the Chicago area,

we know somebody there who might let you drive

his CT5V Blackwing.

He just did the same for us.

True, yeah.

I'm sure he'd love to share that car with you.

He thinks, Andy thinks he prefers

a smaller, more lightweight and balanced vehicle.

However, he does have two kids ages 12 and eight,

and having a backseat with storage is very appealing too.

He's just not sure if he would regret

owning such a big, heavy car, despite it being a manual,

despite it being a V8.

Sure, yeah.

So his question for us,

if we had to pick one between the Lotus Amira

or the CT5V Blackwing,

I don't think there's ever been a more,

a Grand Canyon between choices.

Andy's question is, which one would you choose?

And Andy, I'm sorry, but that's the wrong question to ask

because I already picked, obviously I would pick the Amira,

but I am not you, Andy.

We're gonna try to solve this for you

because I picked, I picked an Amira.

I'm quite happy with it actually, yes.

Andy, I'm going to say neither.

I'm going to vote for the Evora GT.

These are exactly Amira budget.

Well, they're just under Amira budget, found you one.

I found manuals for 93 somewhere in there.

It's got the back seats.

It's right in the middle.

I mean, they're not big, but they're there, yes.

Not right in the middle.

I mean, your kids are going to grow

and you'll probably get that CT5V Blackwing at some point.

But for now, go get the Evora GT.

They're brilliant to drive.

You will cackle as you're commuting.

You can't believe that you get to commute in an Evora GT.

This thing resonates with me so much.

And I love the green.

So go get the green.

I found manual transmissions, $93,000.

They're not cheap, but if you're already looking at Amira

and you need four seats, Evora GT.

I say that's my choice for you because-

Is that it? Good job.

That's it.

Because then you own this for a couple of years,

your kids grow and then the Cadillac CT5V Blackwings

that are $120,000 now, those will come down in price

and then you graduate to that and then you can have both.

Nicely done.

And Andy, you're not going to be surprised

to see some of my choices here,

but I'm going to jump in in just a second.

But I do have a question for you, Andy, and that is this.

Why is the E30 staying?

I mean, I understand it's your weekend car,

but a 1989 BMW E30 Touring is not the M3.

No.

And the M3, if you drive it in modern time,

feels really underpowered.

It's very fun and it's a great chassis.

Even more expensive than they ever have been.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

There are a couple hundred thousand dollars now.

Look, the E30 is a great chassis.

It really is wonderful analog driving,

but I get the sense you're trying to get a fun daily,

which we are all about here,

but I'm kind of surprised we're getting a fun daily.

I'm really wondering, is it going to supersede the BMW?

Because look, you have a Lucid and the E30 right now.

I totally get that garage.

I totally understand that garage.

The Lucid is all the modern tech.

It's business class airline.

It's electric.

It's the perfect commuter.

I get that.

And then you want the fully analog experience.

I understand that garage perfectly.

If you get something sporty as your daily,

internal combustion engine, maybe manual transmission,

I'm starting to go, isn't that E30 Touring

just kind of getting eclipsed now?

Is there a reason to keep it versus just nostalgia?

It could be nostalgia.

Well, I just have it, so I might as well just keep it.

I'm going to leave it there for now, but anyway,

you're talking about a daily that's fun with two kids.

Should it be the CT5 Blackwing?

I think where you should go is starting right where Paul is.

Look, I like the Evora period, but starting at the 400,

Lotus started to refine it properly

and it started to really dial it in,

but the 400s are cheaper

and they aren't as hardcore as the GT.

The GTs are more expensive.

The Evora 400 I have showing right now

is still the same cool green color,

but it has 17,000 miles on it.

It's like we both gravitated towards that green.

And is $70,000.

That's great, actually.

I think you would love this 400.

The 400 is the perfect middle place

between where the Evora started

and the hardcore version it finished at.

This is the more refined version than the early cars,

but not as fully, hey, you must take me tracking

hardcore as the GT.

I think you would love this as a daily,

small but usable backseat.

Here's the trick with the Evora 400.

You have all the space you need in the driver's seat

and the kids get to fight over.

Somebody's in the front, somebody's in the back

and ouch, I need more leg room.

But they're still small enough that can work for a bit.

So 400 actually works here because the Amira does not.

I understand, look, I chose the Amira.

I love the Amira, but it's two seats

and that's not really gonna work for your life.

But other ideas, you said CT5 black wing,

but you're worried about it being too big.

I've got other options for you.

2020 BMW M2 CS happens to be white,

but it's $75,000 with 13,600 miles.

Those have dropped a bit.

You would love this car, BMW M2 CS.

This is the prior generation to the current M2.

This was the best way they looked.

It drove wonderfully.

These rose gold motorsports wheels.

Yeah.

This is such a cool car.

This is a manual CS.

You would love driving this daily.

And if you have a back road weekend for you, awesome.

And this has really genuinely usable back seats.

I just happened to find the CS,

but M2's in general of the prior generation

with your budget, take your pick.

I wonder about the competition.

Kind of a step down from this in terms of-

It would be great.

Hardcore, raw performance.

letterbox screen effect

volume vs niche sports cars

reversible jacket, reversible belt

virtual thing where you're not actually enjoying driving

M70X drive

marketing speak

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