Rivian R1S & Hannah Visits IAA Mobility in Munich

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Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.

I'm Hannah Elliott.

And I'm Matt Miller.

This is Hot Pursuit.

Coming up on today's podcast,

we'll talk Rivian, the EV maker has hit a few snags

lately, including announcing some job cuts,

but I finally got the chance to drive the R1S.

I'm like the last person on the planet to drive this

big, expensive, beautiful electric SUV

that's all on the way on Hot Pursuit.

But first, Hannah, you just got back from Munich

and you are here with me in New York City.

Yes, live in living color.

It's the best way.

It's so good to be here in City of New York.

I missed you.

It's been too long.

I'm really glad to see you.

What was it like at the last auto show that left?

I think we can call the IAA, the last auto show.

It's really interesting.

They do a great job of sort of incorporating

that whole show throughout the city of Munich.

So a lot of it is accessible to the public.

Each automaker creates these huge outdoor stands

with their new cars, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes.

They all have these big outdoor exhibits

that they set up.

And then there's also a conference center part

where journalists like me go in and do executive interviews.

So it's kind of, it's good.

It's nice.

It's also polarizing.

There are scheduled protests of people

who are unhappy about European transport in general

next week and someone made the comment,

look out for any flying tomatoes.

Wait, people are unhappy about transport.

They just want to stay in one spot at all times or what?

I think it's more about the idea that,

where electric regulations are going

in the EU specifically.

That's a very polarizing thing, especially when-

Because they're being peeled back

or because they want to get away from ICE engines faster?

Because they want to get, actually,

they don't like the fact that EVs are being pushed.

Oh, I get it.

Interesting.

So the process on the other side.

Exactly, like this is a mobility conference,

not necessarily a car show.

So they're really trying to say,

oh, this is, it's all about the future of mobility,

which actually means, within the conference center walls,

there are a lot of vendors from China,

like I saw all of these Chinese brands,

I had never even heard of before,

and there are lots of suppliers.

It's kind of like a SEMA in a way too.

So interesting.

I wish I could go to SEMA.

I think you will one day.

I would love to go.

To me, that would be the most exciting,

because I love the aftermarket stuff.

I love modding cars.

I love buying accessories,

and I guess that's the place to go.

This is your spiritual home.

I love it.

But back to Munich, the releases I saw

were kind of EV releases.

We talked about the new GLC with Ola Colonius last week.

We've talked about the IX3, the BMW Neue Classe,

which is about as traditional and boring

as you could get for a vehicle launch, right?

Well, some people are calling it really edgy

and forward thinking.

Oh please.

It just looks like an X3,

except for the electric version.

I think for the Germans, they think,

there was a lot of talk about the Neue Classe in general

being really an edgy, strong step forward.

And honestly, I'm with you.

I don't see that at all.

Yeah, I call it giant BS.

These are incremental changes at best.

Even the GLC, it has a different grill kind of,

but it still looks exactly like the old one.

I get that under the skin, there are important changes,

a lot more range, much faster charging,

but the look of those vehicles

isn't gonna rock anybody's world.

And the Neue Classe, the original concept vehicle

that they put out, now that was edgy

and I initially hated it as we discussed.

And now I think it's kind of giving me 2002 vibes,

which are cool, so I'm liking it more and more,

but those consumer hatchback, big station wagons,

those aren't edgy.

No, no, these are completely ubiquitous,

especially in Europe.

One piece of good news that Mercedes announces,

you know the Mercedes volume control

on the steering wheel, how traditionally

it's been the roller knob that you let,

it feels really nice under your thumb

and then they went to the haptic thing.

You just touch, you just move your thumb up.

Which nobody liked.

They announced for the GLC they're bringing back

the rolling knob, which is great

and it's a rare case of when an automaker

actually like pivots and goes backward by special requests.

Thank goodness, they do that.

It's like Cracker Barrel, they listen.

We didn't like the new logo.

We said no.

We don't want the redesigned stores.

Even President Trump cares about that.

It's like top of his list of things.

Anyway, I liked the Mercedes volume control in theory

and I liked the way it looked

but it just didn't work very well.

By the way, speaking of incremental changes,

did they also show the new 911 Turbo?

They did, the 992.2.

It's got like two electric turbo chargers, right?

So it's got a little tiny battery.

It's like a GTS plus.

Yeah, to me, honestly, it looks exactly the same.

I would be really hard pressed

and I wouldn't even put any money down

being able to tell the difference between the 991 and 992.

Or .1 and .2.

By the way, the thing that differentiates the turbos

from a plain J911 is the big intakes

in the rear wheel wells, right?

And then the little tail on the back.

Sometimes, sometimes, but not necessarily.

Do they not all have that big hole

in the rear wheel wells?

Because I don't love that look

and I'm not sure is it necessary?

This is wading into the whole turbo conversation

where turbo is a marketing badge now at Porsche.

Turbo is an actual variant line.

So every Porsche 911 has a turbo charger.

No, yeah, of course, of course.

The term turbo doesn't actually

necessarily mean anything mechanical.

It's like a marketing badge.

And the Taycan obviously has no turbo.

Exactly, and they're still calling.

They call the top end, yeah, that's super annoying.

I wonder who at Porsche came up with that idea

who was like, there's not gonna be a turbo charger

in any of these EVs, but we're gonna call

the best one a turbo.

And all of these ICE cars are gonna have turbo chargers,

but we're not gonna call any of them turbo

except for the top one.

Only some of them.

Who was that?

Was it Booma?

Was it Detlev?

I would love to know.

I would like to know also.

I would be so surprised if we ever knew.

I don't know, someone in marketing probably.

Well, the thing is I would love the turbo power

and the turbo ease.

And one time I ran into Wolfgang Porsche,

either at the IAA in Munich years ago

or in Geneva, and I asked him what his favorite 911 was.

And I was so hopeful that he was gonna say something

really cool like the Steve McQueen.

Sure.

He said, whatever the newest turbo is, that's my favorite.

And I was kind of bummed out about that.

But I get his point.

That seems like a sales answer.

Well, but also it's like the most developed,

most driver friendly, fastest, most powerful.

The only thing I don't like about it,

because I like the ease and luxury of it,

I don't like the extra looks,

like the holes in the wheel well or the tail.

Like I just wanna smooth 911

that's kind of understated.

I kind of like the extra looks, you know?

To me, they make the smoother one seem a little bit boring

and a little bit too flat somehow.

Well, by the way, didn't you guys drive yours

to your like 991 turbo

to Monterey to try and get more miles on it?

Yes.

Have you got 200,000 yet?

No, I think we're at 197 and a half or so.

And in fact, next weekend we're gonna be driving

that car to Denver from LA in a day,

specifically to add miles.

It's my mom's 70th birthday.

And so we're doing that drive number one,

so we can bring the dog.

But number two, so we get miles on the 991.1.

You're bringing a 911 turbo on a trip from LA to Denver

so that you can bring your German shepherd.

Yes.

Yeah, of course that makes sense.

This is very important.

I get it.

Well, happy birthday Mrs. Elliot.

And I'm so proud of you guys

for racking out the miles on that vehicle.

Coming up, we're gonna talk Rivian.

I'm Matt Miller for Hannah Elliot.

This is Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio in New York City.

Now let's talk about the Rivian R1S.

And like I am the last person on earth to drive this.

A bunch of guys in my neighborhood,

a bunch of dads already have one.

And I know you've driven at least two of these vehicles.

Got a flat wheel in the truck version.

You got a flat?

Yeah, I got a flat.

Well, it was on an off-road like driving course.

Oh, so with other people?

It was with other people.

Yeah, it was in a rather controlled environment

and I did halfway change it myself.

I don't think I've changed a wheel.

Actually, no I did.

I changed a wheel recently

on a giant like GMC Yukon that had 24s.

I remember, I think you told me about that.

That's pretty cool.

And that took forever.

That was not satisfying.

I mean, you need a lot of leverage on that crowbar to get.

I mean, what did you get used to get the lug nuts?

It was not easy.

It took me like an hour

and I felt like a total failure.

But I remember years ago,

I changed a wheel on a bug in Vienna.

Oh, that's very, very cool.

And I was with two young ladies at the time.

Oh, wow, Matt.

A real man.

I'm sure, that must have been a high point for you.

So this Rivian, I have been wanting to drive forever

and haven't had the chance,

but I love the design so, so, so much.

You like the headlights.

I like the headlights.

I like the shape.

I like, for me, the interior

is also like extra winter class.

It reminds me of like a modern version

of an old Jeep grand wagon here.

Yeah, I can totally see that.

It's got the plaid carpets.

It doesn't have a front bench,

but it's pretty open up there.

So I basically drool over them

every time I see them on the road.

I look at them, follow them every time they're on BAT

or I search for them on AutoTrader.

They always are too expensive for me

to really consider getting.

But now I've driven one

and I was pretty disappointed.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

What was, why?

The software is just not there.

For example, satellite radio is so great

because it uses a network of satellites

and not the internet.

However, in an effort to save money,

Rivian does not have a satellite receiver.

They use the internet to give you

streaming satellite radio.

So, you know, I'm leaving for work one morning early

and I listen to Bloomberg radio all the way in

so I can get informed.

You're in the zone.

Yeah, and it's like no internet found.

And it takes me like 15 or 20 minutes.

Oh, that's so distracting.

Before I finally get enough internet

to listen to the radio.

No, that's terrible.

That's not good.

And that sets the tone probably

for the full experience of when you're in the vehicle.

Because you're kind of like annoyed

that you didn't hear what you wanted.

It's just ghetto.

I mean, for a $90,000 vehicle,

which it ends up being if you buy the good model

and dress it up, that's not acceptable.

The other thing is, I don't know about previous versions,

but this 2.0 comes with a key card.

Oh yeah, I'm not a fan of the key card.

No key fob, just like a credit card size thing.

And I thought at first, that's cool

because I'll just put it in my wallet

and I'll never even think about it.

That doesn't work.

You can't have it in your wallet or in your pocket.

It has to literally be on the center console.

And that's just like why at that point,

why not have an actual key?

Right.

You might as well, yeah.

And then I realized later, it also causes problems

when you're, when you want to lock the car,

there's no lock button.

So even if you walk away,

or at least when I walked away with a key in my pocket,

it never locked.

It's confusing that happened to me too.

Normally flat, they stick out, they stay out.

That's not a good look.

And it's an invitation for other people to come

and open the door.

It says this car is not locked.

And then so I Googled it, tried to figure it out.

I guess if you're an owner,

you can order a key fob for extra money.

What about an app?

Yeah, you can do the app.

And I imagine you have to be an owner to do that.

So as a test driver, I wasn't able to do that.

But I guess you would if you owned a car.

It did say you could hold the key up on the B pillar

and that would lock the doors.

Yes, I remember doing that when I did the drive.

I couldn't make it work.

It really, you had to like hold it just.

It's one of those things where you have to hold it

just right and hold it there for a minute.

It's not intuitive, it's not easy.

It's not quick.

And also what happens when you're wearing gloves

and you're fumbling or it's cold out or it's raining.

It's the last thing I wanted to be standing there

with a little card trying to like lock or unlock the car.

When you're introducing a new vehicle,

you want to exceed expectations,

especially if it's a $90,000 vehicle.

And I just don't understand why you would design

and put out a new vehicle that's not good.

I know.

Like why do a bad job of it?

I know.

Philosophically, this is the problem

that I've always had with electric startup car companies,

which is that they seem to believe

that because they're doing something brand new

that is quote unquote good for the environment,

they should get a pass on basic usability

and basic practicality.

Like somehow we should overlook these annoyances

and problems just because we know,

oh well we're virtuous now

because we're buying an electric vehicle.

That doesn't work for me.

Or because the design is amazing.

One of the good things they do

is they put a really nicely illustrated picture

of the outside of the vehicle.

Which is cool.

On the inside of the vehicle.

So you're like, oh, I'm driving this.

It looks great.

Yes, which is cool.

And that can be tailored,

like I was speaking with the Rivian folks in Monterey

and they had a special Pebble Beach version

of their interior, which did look really cool.

And they're very proud

that you can customize that drawing to match your car.

That's really cool,

but that should be like the icing on the cake.

Like the rest of the car has to actually be working.

And like intuitive.

And so the turn signals,

when you try and cancel the turn signal,

it just turns on the opposite turn signal.

Oh no, no.

And it's got these little screens like a Kia or a Hyundai.

When you're switching lanes,

it shows you what's next to you, which is great,

but it's so small and hard to see that it's useless.

There's just so many places

where I feel like they could improve.

And I wish they already had

before they charged that much money

because otherwise why don't I buy an EV9, which is like...

We always go back to that.

We always go back to the Kia EV9, or yeah, sorry.

That's right.

Yeah, I'm like, yeah, of course.

We're always going back there.

The Hyundai version is the Ionic 9,

but it's, I think the Kia is the...

Both, I agree.

And for this, what is this, $90,000 or so,

it's too much.

It has to be better.

What did you think about how it drives?

It drives okay,

but it just wasn't knocking my socks off.

And if you put it, I figured a lot of people

don't like the way it drives

because they probably put it in sports mode,

which lowers the suspension to the second to last level.

And then since you're there and looking at it

and seeing sport, you probably pushed all the way down.

Of course.

And then on normal American streets,

which need a refresh, it's a horrible experience.

So what I ended up doing halfway through my week with it

is putting it on the highest setting for driving,

which improves, you know...

Rideability.

Yes, it improves the ride over exactly.

The Bronx River Parkway or the West Side Highway,

but it doesn't improve handling, obviously,

and it doesn't help your range.

So I don't care that much about those things

when I'm driving a big truck.

I like to be high up and it does that really well,

but just not something I'm willing

to pay a lot of money for.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting.

I've seen a couple of my neighbors

who used to drive Teslas around the neighborhood.

They have now switched to Rivians.

And I think that is because of sort of the politics

around Elon Musk.

So Rivian has emerged as maybe like a viable alternative

to people who don't wanna be seen to be supporting Elon.

I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott.

You're listening to Hot Pursuit.

We have more coming up after this.

This brings me to what I am most excited about.

And that is the Scout.

Have you spent any time looking at the Scout?

No.

So the Scout, for me, it checks so many boxes.

The problem is it's so far off

that we don't know what it's really gonna be like.

But it is an actual body on-frame truck.

So we'll have the rugged,

usability of like a Tahoe or an expedition, right?

And it looks big.

It's gonna be bigger than the Rivian,

which I like.

Some people will think that's too big.

That's pretty big.

Yeah.

Because the Rivian itself is a seven-passenger vehicle.

Right.

But I mean, those seven passengers

are sitting pretty close together.

Yeah, they're kids.

They're children.

Hopefully it's,

I hope there's a little bit more interior room.

I love the design of the Scout.

It looks really cool.

And I've spent, because I'm in the Rivian,

I've spent a lot of time looking at the Scout on the website.

And it can have a range extender.

So they're promising now

at least 350 miles of range,

which is pretty good.

Yeah.

By the time it comes out,

I hope it's even more.

And you can buy a little motor.

You can option a little motor in there

that's an e-rev.

So it doesn't drive the vehicle,

but it charges the battery.

And they say that will work.

So it's a truck.

It's an SUV.

It has hopefully decent to massive range.

And it looks imposing

and can hold a lot of child services.

Yes.

And we should say

that this is the American automotive start-up

that was founded in 2022,

but is now backed by Volkswagen.

Yeah.

So it's got some serious backing.

It might actually happen.

Well, and it's got some serious backing.

It might actually happen.

Well, and it's got some serious backing.

It might actually happen.

Yeah.

It might actually happen.

Well, and it's tied closely to Rivian, right?

Because Volkswagen owns a significant stake in Rivian,

and they've said that they're going to use

Rivian technology on the Scout.

So if you like some Rivian technology,

which by the way is also sorely lacking, right?

Because they have a 400-volt architecture.

It's like using a really thin hose

to try and squirt a lot of water through.

But this Scout will be 800-volt architecture.

So it'll charge much faster than the Rivian.

And that's what VW is using throughout,

basically all their platforms are trying to get

throughout the company.

I mean, it actually looks cool.

Yeah.

I like it.

I'm pretty excited.

They'll offer obviously a truck and an SUV version.

For me, I've found recently that pickup truck

doesn't offer that much utility.

The most I'm doing is towing like a motorcycle

on a boat, so I'm not putting anything in the bed.

I just want, now this is one of the problems.

I do want three rows.

Because for your kids.

Exactly.

For my kids.

For my mom.

Oh, yeah.

For the dogs.

Yes.

If I ever get some.

So they don't yet have a three-row version,

but I can't imagine they don't try and cash in

on a suburban competitor.

I was just going to...

You know what this is making me think of?

How's the Escalade doing?

The Escalade EV.

Love.

Well, no, the Escalade EV is way too expensive.

It's like 150 grand.

It is, but we liked it, right?

I mean, I love the look of it.

Yeah.

It has obviously a lot of room.

I felt this...

It's the first time that I really felt a vehicle was too heavy.

Oh, yeah.

I remember that.

Which I was like, wow, this really steers amazing.

Maybe I'll have another go.

Like the Escalade and the Hummer, I love because of the range.

Yes.

They're so huge and imposing.

They're just like rolling houses.

Yeah.

But the price of the Escalade IQ leaves me out.

Yeah.

Even an Escalade ESV, like with a gas-powered engine.

Well, you don't play in the NBA.

Yeah, exactly.

If you did.

It's not the right look.

Yeah, you're not...

I think if they don't have an EV version, I'm just going to go with a suburban, like a Chevy

suburban.

Yeah.

They still end up being pretty expensive once you put the 6.2 liter V8, but I'll have

to have that because I wouldn't be able to live with myself in a smaller displacement

just to save a few grand.

Yeah.

But yeah, I feel like there's no real competitor.

I am going to drive the Ford Expedition, what do they call the big version?

The...

King Ranch.

The King Ranch?

The King Ranch and the Platinum and the Basic all come in an extra, like a mega version.

They call it the Expedition Mega, but I can't remember.

Oh, you know what?

That's so funny you mentioned that because I'm doing a big assignment on Texas in October

and I'm going to take a huge road trip and I'm going to have a big Expedition

King Ranch for the road trip.

So this might work out very well for us because I'll have some thoughts, I'm sure.

Wait, are you going to actually go to the King Ranch?

Because there is a real King Ranch in Texas.

I don't know.

Maybe I should.

That'd be a great idea actually.

Okay, so I just looked up.

The long version of the Expedition is called the Max.

Okay.

I'm going to try it out.

I've been super impressed lately with Ford and Lincoln vehicles, especially the interior

and the sort of luxury of them.

But again, this is going to have just a three and a half liter V6.

Nobody knows.

They haven't made any noise about putting out a bigger motor.

And there's no hybrid version.

I feel like if we're going to live in the Trump era and we're going to deregulate

everything and cancel laws and stuff, why doesn't Ford put a 6.2 liter V8 back

in their trucks and their SUVs?

Like cafe standards are getting thrown out.

Nobody needs to buy EV credits anymore.

Like they're saving.

Jim, Jim Farley, are you listening?

There was a story, David Welch and Keith Knot put out a story last week that Ford has

saved one and a half billion dollars by no longer buying those carbon credits.

So.

Yeah, you might as well.

Put the big engine.

Yeah.

It would definitely sell.

I mean, you're not alone, Matt.

All right.

That's it for this week.

What have you got coming up?

There are a couple of cool car things happening in LA this weekend.

There's a show in Long Beach.

My friends from Texas actually that do the hand-built show.

It's a big motorcycle show.

Yes.

They're doing a similar one in Long Beach this weekend.

So I may find myself there.

And then, yeah, like I said, next week at the end of the week, driving to Denver.

Very, very cool.

Yeah.

What about you?

I'm actually going to drive the new Ducati XD Aval-S.

Oh.

So it's Ducati's.

What does that mean?

Which one is that?

It's Ducati's big muscle bike, but it's a feet forward cruiser.

Oh, no way.

So no rear sets on this.

I'm pretty excited about that.

I actually owned an XD Aval and like two or three regular Davals in the past.

Cool.

So I'm pumped about that.

Plus, speaking of car shows, my buddy, Phillip is having his turtle invitation in Bedford

at the end of the month.

Are you going?

I'm going to go and I may even speak on a panel.

Oh, good.

This is approved by the brass here at work.

So yeah, there's a lot of, and like I said, I'm going to drive that Expedition Max and

see if it'll be big enough for my family.

Let's find out.

So that does it for this week's show.

Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple Spotify and anywhere else you listen.

You can also send us your comments.

Please send us your comments.

Email us at hotpursuit at Bloomberg.net.

And check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg.com and on the Bloomberg Business

App or the terminal if you're lucky enough to have one of those.

Go there for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find anywhere else.

Find it all at Bloomberg.com slash pursuits slash autos.

I'm Matt Miller.

And I'm Hannah Elliott.

We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.

Rivian R1S & Hannah Visits IAA Mobility in Munich

Rivian R1S

Mercedes-Benz GLC

Bmw Neue

iX3 (G08)

Porsche 911

Porsche Taycan

GMC Yukon

Jeep Grand

Kia EV9

Chevrolet Tahoe

Ford Expedition

Cadillac Escalade

Chevrolet Suburban

About this episode

Original notes