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Rivian R1S & Hannah Visits IAA Mobility in Munich
Rivian R1S & Hannah Visits IAA Mobility in Munich
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About this episode
Hannah and Matt dive into Rivian's R1S electric SUV and share insights from Hannah's recent visit to the IAA Mobility show in Munich. While Rivian faces challenges, including job cuts and software issues, Hannah expresses disappointment after finally driving the R1S, citing problems with its internet-dependent features and key card system. The discussion also touches on the latest EV releases from major automakers, the polarizing nature of European transport regulations, and the potential of the upcoming Scout vehicle backed by Volkswagen. The episode blends industry news with personal anecdotes and critiques.
Topics:
rivian r1s
iaa mobility
electric vehicles
software issues
key card system
european transport regulations
upcoming scout vehicle
automaker releases
Cars:
BMW iX3 (G08)
BMW Neue Klasse
Cadillac Escalade
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe
Ford Expedition
GMC Yukon
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Kia EV9
Mercedes-Benz GLC
Porsche 911
Porsche Taycan
Rivian R1S
On this episode, Matt takes a turn in the Rivian R1S and Hannah reports back on the debuts from the IAA car show in Munich.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Filter:
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Rivian R1S
"...b cuts, but I finally got the chance to drive the R1S. I'm like the last person on the planet to drive ..."
Car
Mercedes-Benz GLC
"were kind of EV releases. We talked about the new GLC with Ola Colonius last week. We've talked about t..."
Car
Bmw Neue
"...lonius last week. We've talked about the IX3, the BMW Neue Classe, which is about as traditional and boring"
Car
iX3 (G08)
"...th Ola Colonius last week. We've talked about the IX3, the BMW Neue Classe, which is about as tradition..."
Car
Porsche 911
"...f incremental changes, did they also show the new 911 Turbo? They did, the 992.2."
Car
Porsche Taycan
"It's like a marketing badge. And the Taycan obviously has no turbo. Exactly, and they're stil..."
Car
GMC Yukon
"I changed a wheel recently on a giant like GMC Yukon that had 24s. I remember, I think you told me abo..."
Car
Jeep Grand
"It reminds me of like a modern version of an old Jeep grand wagon here. Yeah, I can totally see that."
Car
Kia EV9
"...t much money because otherwise why don't I buy an EV9, which is like... We always go back to that."
Car
Chevrolet Tahoe
"So we'll have the rugged, usability of like a Tahoe or an expedition, right? And it looks big."
Car
Ford Expedition
"... have the rugged, usability of like a Tahoe or an expedition, right? And it looks big."
Car
Cadillac Escalade
"...u know what this is making me think of? How's the Escalade doing? The Escalade EV."
Car
Chevrolet Suburban
"...t have an EV version, I'm just going to go with a suburban, like a Chevy suburban."
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Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.
I'm Hannah Elliott.
And I'm Matt Miller.
This is Hot Pursuit.
Coming up on today's podcast,
we'll talk Rivian, the EV maker has hit a few snags
lately, including announcing some job cuts,
but I finally got the chance to drive the R1S.
I'm like the last person on the planet to drive this
big, expensive, beautiful electric SUV
that's all on the way on Hot Pursuit.
But first, Hannah, you just got back from Munich
and you are here with me in New York City.
Yes, live in living color.
It's the best way.
It's so good to be here in City of New York.
I missed you.
It's been too long.
I'm really glad to see you.
What was it like at the last auto show that left?
I think we can call the IAA, the last auto show.
It's really interesting.
They do a great job of sort of incorporating
that whole show throughout the city of Munich.
So a lot of it is accessible to the public.
Each automaker creates these huge outdoor stands
with their new cars, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes.
They all have these big outdoor exhibits
that they set up.
And then there's also a conference center part
where journalists like me go in and do executive interviews.
So it's kind of, it's good.
It's nice.
It's also polarizing.
There are scheduled protests of people
who are unhappy about European transport in general
next week and someone made the comment,
look out for any flying tomatoes.
Wait, people are unhappy about transport.
They just want to stay in one spot at all times or what?
I think it's more about the idea that,
where electric regulations are going
in the EU specifically.
That's a very polarizing thing, especially when-
Because they're being peeled back
or because they want to get away from ICE engines faster?
Because they want to get, actually,
they don't like the fact that EVs are being pushed.
Oh, I get it.
Interesting.
So the process on the other side.
Exactly, like this is a mobility conference,
not necessarily a car show.
So they're really trying to say,
oh, this is, it's all about the future of mobility,
which actually means, within the conference center walls,
there are a lot of vendors from China,
like I saw all of these Chinese brands,
I had never even heard of before,
and there are lots of suppliers.
It's kind of like a SEMA in a way too.
So interesting.
I wish I could go to SEMA.
I think you will one day.
I would love to go.
To me, that would be the most exciting,
because I love the aftermarket stuff.
I love modding cars.
I love buying accessories,
and I guess that's the place to go.
This is your spiritual home.
I love it.
But back to Munich, the releases I saw
were kind of EV releases.
We talked about the new GLC with Ola Colonius last week.
We've talked about the IX3, the BMW Neue Classe,
which is about as traditional and boring
as you could get for a vehicle launch, right?
Well, some people are calling it really edgy
and forward thinking.
Oh please.
It just looks like an X3,
except for the electric version.
I think for the Germans, they think,
there was a lot of talk about the Neue Classe in general
being really an edgy, strong step forward.
And honestly, I'm with you.
I don't see that at all.
Yeah, I call it giant BS.
These are incremental changes at best.
Even the GLC, it has a different grill kind of,
but it still looks exactly like the old one.
I get that under the skin, there are important changes,
a lot more range, much faster charging,
but the look of those vehicles
isn't gonna rock anybody's world.
And the Neue Classe, the original concept vehicle
that they put out, now that was edgy
and I initially hated it as we discussed.
And now I think it's kind of giving me 2002 vibes,
which are cool, so I'm liking it more and more,
but those consumer hatchback, big station wagons,
those aren't edgy.
No, no, these are completely ubiquitous,
especially in Europe.
One piece of good news that Mercedes announces,
you know the Mercedes volume control
on the steering wheel, how traditionally
it's been the roller knob that you let,
it feels really nice under your thumb
and then they went to the haptic thing.
You just touch, you just move your thumb up.
Which nobody liked.
They announced for the GLC they're bringing back
the rolling knob, which is great
and it's a rare case of when an automaker
actually like pivots and goes backward by special requests.
Thank goodness, they do that.
It's like Cracker Barrel, they listen.
We didn't like the new logo.
We said no.
We don't want the redesigned stores.
Even President Trump cares about that.
It's like top of his list of things.
Anyway, I liked the Mercedes volume control in theory
and I liked the way it looked
but it just didn't work very well.
By the way, speaking of incremental changes,
did they also show the new 911 Turbo?
They did, the 992.2.
It's got like two electric turbo chargers, right?
So it's got a little tiny battery.
It's like a GTS plus.
Yeah, to me, honestly, it looks exactly the same.
I would be really hard pressed
and I wouldn't even put any money down
being able to tell the difference between the 991 and 992.
Or .1 and .2.
By the way, the thing that differentiates the turbos
from a plain J911 is the big intakes
in the rear wheel wells, right?
And then the little tail on the back.
Sometimes, sometimes, but not necessarily.
Do they not all have that big hole
in the rear wheel wells?
Because I don't love that look
and I'm not sure is it necessary?
This is wading into the whole turbo conversation
where turbo is a marketing badge now at Porsche.
Turbo is an actual variant line.
So every Porsche 911 has a turbo charger.
No, yeah, of course, of course.
The term turbo doesn't actually
necessarily mean anything mechanical.
It's like a marketing badge.
And the Taycan obviously has no turbo.
Exactly, and they're still calling.
They call the top end, yeah, that's super annoying.
I wonder who at Porsche came up with that idea
who was like, there's not gonna be a turbo charger
in any of these EVs, but we're gonna call
the best one a turbo.
And all of these ICE cars are gonna have turbo chargers,
but we're not gonna call any of them turbo
except for the top one.
Only some of them.
Who was that?
Was it Booma?
Was it Detlev?
I would love to know.
I would like to know also.
I would be so surprised if we ever knew.
I don't know, someone in marketing probably.
Well, the thing is I would love the turbo power
and the turbo ease.
And one time I ran into Wolfgang Porsche,
either at the IAA in Munich years ago
or in Geneva, and I asked him what his favorite 911 was.
And I was so hopeful that he was gonna say something
really cool like the Steve McQueen.
Sure.
He said, whatever the newest turbo is, that's my favorite.
And I was kind of bummed out about that.
But I get his point.
That seems like a sales answer.
Well, but also it's like the most developed,
most driver friendly, fastest, most powerful.
The only thing I don't like about it,
because I like the ease and luxury of it,
I don't like the extra looks,
like the holes in the wheel well or the tail.
Like I just wanna smooth 911
that's kind of understated.
I kind of like the extra looks, you know?
To me, they make the smoother one seem a little bit boring
and a little bit too flat somehow.
Well, by the way, didn't you guys drive yours
to your like 991 turbo
to Monterey to try and get more miles on it?
Yes.
Have you got 200,000 yet?
No, I think we're at 197 and a half or so.
And in fact, next weekend we're gonna be driving
that car to Denver from LA in a day,
specifically to add miles.
It's my mom's 70th birthday.
And so we're doing that drive number one,
so we can bring the dog.
But number two, so we get miles on the 991.1.
You're bringing a 911 turbo on a trip from LA to Denver
so that you can bring your German shepherd.
Yes.
Yeah, of course that makes sense.
This is very important.
I get it.
Well, happy birthday Mrs. Elliot.
And I'm so proud of you guys
for racking out the miles on that vehicle.
Coming up, we're gonna talk Rivian.
I'm Matt Miller for Hannah Elliot.
This is Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio in New York City.
Now let's talk about the Rivian R1S.
And like I am the last person on earth to drive this.
A bunch of guys in my neighborhood,
a bunch of dads already have one.
And I know you've driven at least two of these vehicles.
Got a flat wheel in the truck version.
You got a flat?
Yeah, I got a flat.
Well, it was on an off-road like driving course.
Oh, so with other people?
It was with other people.
Yeah, it was in a rather controlled environment
and I did halfway change it myself.
I don't think I've changed a wheel.
Actually, no I did.
I changed a wheel recently
on a giant like GMC Yukon that had 24s.
I remember, I think you told me about that.
That's pretty cool.
And that took forever.
That was not satisfying.
I mean, you need a lot of leverage on that crowbar to get.
I mean, what did you get used to get the lug nuts?
It was not easy.
It took me like an hour
and I felt like a total failure.
But I remember years ago,
I changed a wheel on a bug in Vienna.
Oh, that's very, very cool.
And I was with two young ladies at the time.
Oh, wow, Matt.
A real man.
I'm sure, that must have been a high point for you.
So this Rivian, I have been wanting to drive forever
and haven't had the chance,
but I love the design so, so, so much.
You like the headlights.
I like the headlights.
I like the shape.
I like, for me, the interior
is also like extra winter class.
It reminds me of like a modern version
of an old Jeep grand wagon here.
Yeah, I can totally see that.
It's got the plaid carpets.
It doesn't have a front bench,
but it's pretty open up there.
So I basically drool over them
every time I see them on the road.
I look at them, follow them every time they're on BAT
or I search for them on AutoTrader.
They always are too expensive for me
to really consider getting.
But now I've driven one
and I was pretty disappointed.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
What was, why?
The software is just not there.
For example, satellite radio is so great
because it uses a network of satellites
and not the internet.
However, in an effort to save money,
Rivian does not have a satellite receiver.
They use the internet to give you
streaming satellite radio.
So, you know, I'm leaving for work one morning early
and I listen to Bloomberg radio all the way in
so I can get informed.
You're in the zone.
Yeah, and it's like no internet found.
And it takes me like 15 or 20 minutes.
Oh, that's so distracting.
Before I finally get enough internet
to listen to the radio.
No, that's terrible.
That's not good.
And that sets the tone probably
for the full experience of when you're in the vehicle.
Because you're kind of like annoyed
that you didn't hear what you wanted.
It's just ghetto.
I mean, for a $90,000 vehicle,
which it ends up being if you buy the good model
and dress it up, that's not acceptable.
The other thing is, I don't know about previous versions,
but this 2.0 comes with a key card.
Oh yeah, I'm not a fan of the key card.
No key fob, just like a credit card size thing.
And I thought at first, that's cool
because I'll just put it in my wallet
and I'll never even think about it.
That doesn't work.
You can't have it in your wallet or in your pocket.
It has to literally be on the center console.
And that's just like why at that point,
why not have an actual key?
Right.
You might as well, yeah.
And then I realized later, it also causes problems
when you're, when you want to lock the car,
there's no lock button.
So even if you walk away,
or at least when I walked away with a key in my pocket,
it never locked.
It's confusing that happened to me too.
Normally flat, they stick out, they stay out.
That's not a good look.
And it's an invitation for other people to come
and open the door.
It says this car is not locked.
And then so I Googled it, tried to figure it out.
I guess if you're an owner,
you can order a key fob for extra money.
What about an app?
Yeah, you can do the app.
And I imagine you have to be an owner to do that.
So as a test driver, I wasn't able to do that.
But I guess you would if you owned a car.
It did say you could hold the key up on the B pillar
and that would lock the doors.
Yes, I remember doing that when I did the drive.
I couldn't make it work.
It really, you had to like hold it just.
It's one of those things where you have to hold it
just right and hold it there for a minute.
It's not intuitive, it's not easy.
It's not quick.
And also what happens when you're wearing gloves
and you're fumbling or it's cold out or it's raining.
It's the last thing I wanted to be standing there
with a little card trying to like lock or unlock the car.
When you're introducing a new vehicle,
you want to exceed expectations,
especially if it's a $90,000 vehicle.
And I just don't understand why you would design
and put out a new vehicle that's not good.
I know.
Like why do a bad job of it?
I know.
Philosophically, this is the problem
that I've always had with electric startup car companies,
which is that they seem to believe
that because they're doing something brand new
that is quote unquote good for the environment,
they should get a pass on basic usability
and basic practicality.
Like somehow we should overlook these annoyances
and problems just because we know,
oh well we're virtuous now
because we're buying an electric vehicle.
That doesn't work for me.
Or because the design is amazing.
One of the good things they do
is they put a really nicely illustrated picture
of the outside of the vehicle.
Which is cool.
On the inside of the vehicle.
So you're like, oh, I'm driving this.
It looks great.
Yes, which is cool.
And that can be tailored,
like I was speaking with the Rivian folks in Monterey
and they had a special Pebble Beach version
of their interior, which did look really cool.
And they're very proud
that you can customize that drawing to match your car.
That's really cool,
but that should be like the icing on the cake.
Like the rest of the car has to actually be working.
And like intuitive.
And so the turn signals,
when you try and cancel the turn signal,
it just turns on the opposite turn signal.
Oh no, no.
And it's got these little screens like a Kia or a Hyundai.
When you're switching lanes,
it shows you what's next to you, which is great,
but it's so small and hard to see that it's useless.
There's just so many places
where I feel like they could improve.
And I wish they already had
before they charged that much money
because otherwise why don't I buy an EV9, which is like...
We always go back to that.
We always go back to the Kia EV9, or yeah, sorry.
That's right.
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, of course.
We're always going back there.
The Hyundai version is the Ionic 9,
but it's, I think the Kia is the...
Both, I agree.
And for this, what is this, $90,000 or so,
it's too much.
It has to be better.
What did you think about how it drives?
It drives okay,
but it just wasn't knocking my socks off.
And if you put it, I figured a lot of people
don't like the way it drives
because they probably put it in sports mode,
which lowers the suspension to the second to last level.
And then since you're there and looking at it
and seeing sport, you probably pushed all the way down.
Of course.
And then on normal American streets,
which need a refresh, it's a horrible experience.
So what I ended up doing halfway through my week with it
is putting it on the highest setting for driving,
which improves, you know...
Rideability.
Yes, it improves the ride over exactly.
The Bronx River Parkway or the West Side Highway,
but it doesn't improve handling, obviously,
and it doesn't help your range.
So I don't care that much about those things
when I'm driving a big truck.
I like to be high up and it does that really well,
but just not something I'm willing
to pay a lot of money for.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
I've seen a couple of my neighbors
who used to drive Teslas around the neighborhood.
They have now switched to Rivians.
And I think that is because of sort of the politics
around Elon Musk.
So Rivian has emerged as maybe like a viable alternative
to people who don't wanna be seen to be supporting Elon.
I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott.
You're listening to Hot Pursuit.
We have more coming up after this.
This brings me to what I am most excited about.
And that is the Scout.
Have you spent any time looking at the Scout?
No.
No.
So the Scout, for me, it checks so many boxes.
The problem is it's so far off
that we don't know what it's really gonna be like.
But it is an actual body on-frame truck.
So we'll have the rugged,
usability of like a Tahoe or an expedition, right?
And it looks big.
It's gonna be bigger than the Rivian,
which I like.
Some people will think that's too big.
That's pretty big.
Yeah.
Because the Rivian itself is a seven-passenger vehicle.
Right.
But I mean, those seven passengers
are sitting pretty close together.
Yeah, they're kids.
They're children.
Hopefully it's,
I hope there's a little bit more interior room.
I love the design of the Scout.
It looks really cool.
And I've spent, because I'm in the Rivian,
I've spent a lot of time looking at the Scout on the website.
And it can have a range extender.
So they're promising now
at least 350 miles of range,
which is pretty good.
Yeah.
By the time it comes out,
I hope it's even more.
And you can buy a little motor.
You can option a little motor in there
that's an e-rev.
So it doesn't drive the vehicle,
but it charges the battery.
And they say that will work.
So it's a truck.
It's an SUV.
It has hopefully decent to massive range.
And it looks imposing
and can hold a lot of child services.
Yes.
And we should say
that this is the American automotive start-up
that was founded in 2022,
but is now backed by Volkswagen.
Yeah.
So it's got some serious backing.
It might actually happen.
Well, and it's got some serious backing.
It might actually happen.
Well, and it's got some serious backing.
It might actually happen.
Yeah.
It might actually happen.
Well, and it's tied closely to Rivian, right?
Because Volkswagen owns a significant stake in Rivian,
and they've said that they're going to use
Rivian technology on the Scout.
So if you like some Rivian technology,
which by the way is also sorely lacking, right?
Because they have a 400-volt architecture.
It's like using a really thin hose
to try and squirt a lot of water through.
But this Scout will be 800-volt architecture.
So it'll charge much faster than the Rivian.
And that's what VW is using throughout,
basically all their platforms are trying to get
throughout the company.
I mean, it actually looks cool.
Yeah.
I like it.
I'm pretty excited.
They'll offer obviously a truck and an SUV version.
For me, I've found recently that pickup truck
doesn't offer that much utility.
The most I'm doing is towing like a motorcycle
on a boat, so I'm not putting anything in the bed.
I just want, now this is one of the problems.
I do want three rows.
Because for your kids.
Exactly.
For my kids.
For my mom.
Oh, yeah.
For the dogs.
Yes.
If I ever get some.
So they don't yet have a three-row version,
but I can't imagine they don't try and cash in
on a suburban competitor.
I was just going to...
You know what this is making me think of?
How's the Escalade doing?
The Escalade EV.
Love.
Well, no, the Escalade EV is way too expensive.
It's like 150 grand.
It is, but we liked it, right?
I mean, I love the look of it.
Yeah.
It has obviously a lot of room.
I felt this...
It's the first time that I really felt a vehicle was too heavy.
Oh, yeah.
I remember that.
Which I was like, wow, this really steers amazing.
Maybe I'll have another go.
Like the Escalade and the Hummer, I love because of the range.
Yes.
They're so huge and imposing.
They're just like rolling houses.
Yeah.
But the price of the Escalade IQ leaves me out.
Yeah.
Even an Escalade ESV, like with a gas-powered engine.
Well, you don't play in the NBA.
Yeah, exactly.
If you did.
It's not the right look.
Yeah, you're not...
I think if they don't have an EV version, I'm just going to go with a suburban, like a Chevy
suburban.
Yeah.
They still end up being pretty expensive once you put the 6.2 liter V8, but I'll have
to have that because I wouldn't be able to live with myself in a smaller displacement
just to save a few grand.
Yeah.
But yeah, I feel like there's no real competitor.
I am going to drive the Ford Expedition, what do they call the big version?
The...
King Ranch.
The King Ranch?
The King Ranch and the Platinum and the Basic all come in an extra, like a mega version.
They call it the Expedition Mega, but I can't remember.
Oh, you know what?
That's so funny you mentioned that because I'm doing a big assignment on Texas in October
and I'm going to take a huge road trip and I'm going to have a big Expedition
King Ranch for the road trip.
So this might work out very well for us because I'll have some thoughts, I'm sure.
Wait, are you going to actually go to the King Ranch?
Because there is a real King Ranch in Texas.
I don't know.
Maybe I should.
That'd be a great idea actually.
Okay, so I just looked up.
The long version of the Expedition is called the Max.
Okay.
I'm going to try it out.
I've been super impressed lately with Ford and Lincoln vehicles, especially the interior
and the sort of luxury of them.
But again, this is going to have just a three and a half liter V6.
Nobody knows.
They haven't made any noise about putting out a bigger motor.
And there's no hybrid version.
I feel like if we're going to live in the Trump era and we're going to deregulate
everything and cancel laws and stuff, why doesn't Ford put a 6.2 liter V8 back
in their trucks and their SUVs?
Like cafe standards are getting thrown out.
Nobody needs to buy EV credits anymore.
Like they're saving.
Jim, Jim Farley, are you listening?
There was a story, David Welch and Keith Knot put out a story last week that Ford has
saved one and a half billion dollars by no longer buying those carbon credits.
So.
Yeah, you might as well.
Put the big engine.
Yeah.
It would definitely sell.
I mean, you're not alone, Matt.
All right.
That's it for this week.
What have you got coming up?
There are a couple of cool car things happening in LA this weekend.
There's a show in Long Beach.
My friends from Texas actually that do the hand-built show.
It's a big motorcycle show.
Yes.
They're doing a similar one in Long Beach this weekend.
So I may find myself there.
And then, yeah, like I said, next week at the end of the week, driving to Denver.
Very, very cool.
Yeah.
What about you?
I'm actually going to drive the new Ducati XD Aval-S.
Oh.
So it's Ducati's.
What does that mean?
Which one is that?
It's Ducati's big muscle bike, but it's a feet forward cruiser.
Oh, no way.
So no rear sets on this.
I'm pretty excited about that.
I actually owned an XD Aval and like two or three regular Davals in the past.
Cool.
So I'm pumped about that.
Plus, speaking of car shows, my buddy, Phillip is having his turtle invitation in Bedford
at the end of the month.
Are you going?
I'm going to go and I may even speak on a panel.
Oh, good.
This is approved by the brass here at work.
So yeah, there's a lot of, and like I said, I'm going to drive that Expedition Max and
see if it'll be big enough for my family.
Let's find out.
So that does it for this week's show.
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App or the terminal if you're lucky enough to have one of those.
Go there for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find anywhere else.
Find it all at Bloomberg.com slash pursuits slash autos.
I'm Matt Miller.
And I'm Hannah Elliott.
We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.
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