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Rodney Childers Interview
Rodney Childers Interview
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About this episode
Rodney Childers shares insights on his transition from Cup crew chief to working with late model stock cars, highlighting the competitiveness and growth of the Cars Tour. He discusses the evolving role of crew chiefs with the Gen 7 car, emphasizing leadership and detailed engineering work. Childers critiques current NASCAR car design, suggesting narrower tires and more power to improve racing quality. He reflects on the challenges of the Cup garage, his future ambitions, and offers thoughts on the playoff format and championship contenders, favoring Christopher Bell as a top pick.
Topics:
late model stock racing
cars tour
crew chief role
gen 7 car
nascar car design
simulator use
nascar playoffs
championship predictions
team leadership
racing competitiveness
Kevin Harvick sits down with his longtime former crew chief, Rodney Childers, for an in-depth and candid conversation on Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour. Rodney shares what life has been like since parting ways with Spire Motorsports, including his hands-on work with Cars Tour late model teams and why that experience has reignited his passion for racing. The two also dive into what makes Childers more motivated than ever to return to the pit box and chase wins at NASCAR’s top level. From breaking down the challenges of the Next Gen car to the differences in crew chief responsibilities compared to the previous generation, this interview gives fans an unfiltered look at one of the sport’s most respected minds.
0:00 - Intro
0:31 - Rodney Childers Joins The Show!
4:45 - Up-And-Coming Drivers
6:36 - Childers’ Future In Motorsports
9:41 - Adjusting To The Next Gen Car
18:31 - Improvements To The Next Gen Car
27:59 - NASCAR Playoff System
30:42 - Championship Predictions
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- Intro
- Rodney Childers Joins The Show!
- Up-And-Coming Drivers
- Childers’ Future In Motorsports
- Adjusting To The Next Gen Car
- Improvements To The Next Gen Car
- NASCAR Playoff System
- Championship Predictions
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The way we were racing was, you know, taking a knife to a gun fight.
It's your house racing. We just race different.
The teams have too much control.
At some point we have to blow the thing up.
I've got rid of every distraction that I have.
I just want to smash them.
Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Art, presented by NASCAR on Fox.
I figured it was a good time for a mid-season update with my old buddy, good buddy, good friend,
old crew chief, Rodney Childers.
So thanks for, thanks for taking the time.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
What, okay.
So I guess the big question is, I know what you've been up to.
But tell everybody else kind of, you know, what you've been doing.
Hanging out with you a lot.
Yeah, just, you know, I've been enjoying going over to KHI and working on the light models
normally about three days a week and going with them on the weekends.
And, you know, just going to those cars tour races.
And honestly, it's been a ton of fun getting to work with Landa and getting to watch Keelan Race.
You know, just a great group of guys that work really hard.
And, you know, that's kind of my roots.
You know, I enjoy being around the late mall stock cars and just a lot of fun.
Well, I mean, you know that it's your fault that that even thing, that thing even exists.
You know, that's your fault, right?
I was actually thinking about that this morning.
Yeah, that was, that was kind of my doings from the get go, but it's all worked out good.
It's been, been really cool to see it grow over the last few years and what it's been able to do.
And like, you know, the people that you've assembled over there in the shop is great.
So it's neat to see, you know, how far it's come.
Yeah. When you look at a kid like Landon, you know, I think that we've seen this a few times now.
We've saw, I mean, Lane Riggs, he got in the car and one and all of a sudden his career kind of took off.
Josh Berry really set the precedence as far as being able to run the late model stock and get into something else and move on.
Now you see Butter being moving on.
When you look at a kid like Landon, we'll just use Landon because we know him, for instance.
How has the cars tour kind of changed the dynamic of what a young driver can do from a late model standpoint
to get the recognition that he's getting on the cars tour and being able to get in these next vehicles
as we've seen with those guys and be competitive kind of changed the whole landscape of what you can do
in a late model stock and jump in the next vehicle.
Yeah. And I've always said really my whole life at late mall stock racing is probably one of the hardest things out there.
It's the most competitive. You see it weekend and week out just how close qualifying is throughout the field.
But it's just a great place to learn.
You're racing against some of the best people there is.
And to be able to do that on TV every single week and have a big audience is huge.
And to go do it at Northbrook Spurrow and FS1 and just a lot of different things that we've been able to do with this
is just growing and growing and growing.
And, you know, there's no better place for a young kid to be able to get recognized right now.
And I think the part that, so I didn't grow up on the East Coast with late model stock racing,
but our late models were very similar to what they are now.
Owning and watching the West Coast kind of get back organized and regroup.
It's a much different environment than it is on the East Coast because people are doing it for a living.
And the intensity that comes with late model racing on the East Coast,
I mean, it's competitive on the West Coast, but these guys are not necessarily all doing it for a living.
Most of the cars to our late model stock teams are racing for a living.
And you can do it by not racing for a living.
It changes the competitive environment.
And for me, it was a little bit eye-opening in the beginning just because I didn't really recognize
late model racing as ever getting to that point of being that competitive.
But I don't think that slowed down, do you?
No, not at all.
I'm coming back to it this year.
And after we went to the first few races and we won a couple of them and had really dominant cars,
I realized real quick that the whole wind field is not okay with us doing that.
So it is.
You know, these guys are out here doing it for a living and they work extremely hard at it.
And their expectation is the same as anybody else.
They expect to go out there and win and provide for whoever's driving the car and put on the best show you can.
But it's definitely a different landscape than what it is in some areas.
As you look at the truck teams and all the people that are looking for up-and-coming drivers,
we're around landing.
So we know that landing does a good job.
Who do you think some of the other young guys coming through the system that have the potential to come out of there
and have a chance at moving forward?
Well, my number one would be Keelan.
He's still a little young.
We've still got a few years for that.
But there's so many good ones that there really is.
Butterbean was the standout for the last few years and obviously landing and Connor racing for the championship right now.
But there's a lot of other good ones too.
There really is.
And it's not just, you know, in the cars tour, there's a lot of good light monster car drivers throughout the East Coast.
So I like the Luke Baldwin kid.
Yeah, I think he does.
I just love his approach and his, you know, I think that there's something to be said for that racing pedigree
that goes with a kid that can manage his personality and his emotions.
And obviously they all get out of whack at certain times, but they've seen it.
And I just, I like the way he goes about it.
And it seems like he can get in anything.
He can get in anything and go fast and win.
And I think the most impressive thing is, you know, he didn't really start eye racing until he was 15 years old.
Not wild.
And, you know, I actually had that conversation with them because the boys, you know, bugged me like they should have raced.
And they're like, well, Luke didn't start till he was late.
But, you know, it's just, it's crazy to see that, you know, going on.
And I got to talk to Tommy at Darlington and both boys finished first and second, you know, right that Saturday night of, you know, Darlington weekend.
So I can only imagine what that feels like as a father to watch both of them go out there and do that.
So just pretty special for that family, I'm sure.
So you've done the late model stock stuff.
You've been away from the cup garage a little bit now.
And you, you, where do you, where does your heart lie as far as what you want to, what you want to do going forward?
Obviously you've won a cup championship.
You've won 40 races.
And I looked down the, I was looking down the, the crew chief list today of, I think that Alan Gustafson and maybe Paul, maybe it was Paul.
Yeah. I think it was Paul.
Paul are the only guys that are even close to, to, to that.
And so, you know, your experience and everything that, that you've been able to go through, where does that lead your thoughts as, as you go forward?
Yeah. I mean, April 22nd, I knew, you know, over the next few months, it was going to be a big learning curve for me, a lot of emotion to try to figure out what's next.
You know, for some reason, it's been hard to just, you know, say I'm done by any means.
I still miss it.
I think it's just the competitive part of it that I miss the most.
I enjoy winning races.
You know, I'm a little quiet at it, but, you know, even when landing wins, I try not to get all up in the middle of it.
But, you know, that's all I've ever done.
You know, that's, that's what I've done my whole life is to race and to win races and compete.
And so I don't, I don't really know what's next.
You know, I still want to race.
I still want to win races.
I feel like I need some more on my pedigree and, and, you know, on my record.
So, you know, I'm just trying to figure it out one day at a time and, and just figure out what's next.
When you look at the timing of it, I don't think it could have been worse as far as the, in my opinion, the cup garage really starts to work.
Really, any of the garages start to work now the middle of August through the end of the year is kind of how it all works.
How have you, have you been able to even have any conversations with anybody?
Because a lot of the teams are so in the middle of the season that it seems like it's tough.
Yeah, it's been really tough.
It really has.
And I think some of the things that are going on in the cup garage are making it even tougher right now from my standpoint.
So, you know, it's, it's hard to say what's going to happen.
I mean, you know, to me as, as an outsider looking in, there's teams that need to do something different.
You know, and they're, they're not doing things the right way.
They're not, they're just not, not racing the way that they need to race.
And, you know, whether that's a job opener or not, I don't really know.
But, you know, there's, there's plenty of other stuff around.
It's been kind of crazy.
You know, the last month it's been the truck garage that has been the most supportive.
Yeah.
I never expected that two months ago.
It was pretty quiet.
And then now all of a sudden there's a lot of interest there.
It's going to get more competitive.
It really is.
It seems that way.
Yeah.
It does seem that way.
So, you know, I'm still trying to just, you know, weed through it one day at a time and just figure it out.
So when you, when you look at the, when you look back, I look at, like I look at Briscoe
and I hear him talk about his car and the way that, how much different it drives from the cars that he drove at Stuart Haas Racing.
And it got me, it got me really intrigued from the crew chief standpoint, how that dynamic changed.
When you went from the old car to the, to where we are today,
what is, what is the process and everything that you think has changed from gen six to gen seven and how the crew chief operates and runs the team?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And it eats me up to see what, you know, people say that I'm not good at an X-Gen car because, you know, these days, you know,
Well, first off, you're in a shit situation.
Yeah.
Because when, when the, when the whole, the beginning of the failure and the closed down of Stuart Haas Racing really started a couple years before that.
You could kind of see the bottom was falling out of Stuart Haas Racing.
And maybe you saw it different, but when those resources start to deteriorate, Ford shifted a lot of their support to Penske.
Penske became and Stuart Haas just slowly lost piece by piece.
But I think now when you're seeing Briscoe and Josh Berry and all these guys go to teams that are fully intact and functioning.
Yeah.
It was, it was the beginning of the end was a couple, two or three years before it, before it shut down.
Yeah.
And I saw that same thing from Briscoe and, you know, that's, that's how it is.
You know, I mean, there's big organizations that have this car figured out from the smallest details, you know, one thing at a time.
You know, there's a thousand pieces to put it, the puzzle together and you have to do all of them exactly perfect.
And, you know, obviously they have really, really good cars right now, even, you know, watching the race yesterday.
Anybody that was in one of those cars was extremely fast and.
Players come to play.
Yeah, for sure.
So, and you know, from your past, that just makes your toolbox easier to work in.
Right.
I mean, your springs don't have to be perfect.
Your shocks don't have to be perfect.
You don't have to hit your heights exactly perfect every week.
You just have a better car.
And that's so much easier to race that way.
You know, the way we were racing was, you know, taking a knife to a gunfight and it's just extremely hard to do it that way.
But, you know, to go back to your question, though, is, you know, the crew chief has to manage the people more than anything.
He has to run the ship and keep the ship steered in the right direction and help run the organization and keep the organization steered in the right direction.
And, you know, it's mainly the engineers that are working on the setups and going to the simulator and doing all those things.
And, you know, every team is different.
You know, I said, you know, beside Billy Scott last weekend and talk for a long time and like, you know, his department is different than what mine would be.
If I was there, right? You know, he's still coming up with setups for all three cars at 2311 and does a really good job at it.
So everybody's different.
Every team works a little bit different.
And there's even some of them that are different within an organization, you know.
So, you know, I think you just have to find those puzzle pieces that work for your organization and figure it out from there.
And I think that when Stuart Hoss Racing was at its best, it was about the fabricators, the arrow department.
You could make differences.
And I think that when it went to a structured, organized, very detailed piece of the puzzle from every piece being a part that matters.
I think that's really when the company needed to be restructured and how it worked.
And I think that that's a Gen 7 thing.
I think Pinsky was more buttoned up from a detailed standpoint.
I think that, you know, I still think a Gibbs, Hendrik, I think a lot of those were a little more structured from that standpoint.
I still think that it changed all of them though.
Am I wrong in thinking that?
No, and it was just the way that different organizations were run, like you were saying, like Pinsky was really buttoned up at the time.
And they were kind of ready for a car like this, the way that they operated in the shop.
And, you know, obviously they've gone out and won one or three championships in a row or whatever.
So I felt like they were ready for it from the get-go.
You know, they had some super car experience and all those different things.
And, you know, at Stuart Hoss Racing, we just raced different.
You know, even today people say that I like doing things my way.
That was the only way we could race there.
It wasn't that I like doing things my way, but I was going to hold people accountable and do it our way,
because that's the only way we could race.
And different places were, you know, didn't race that way.
They had a lot of structure and all those different things.
But Stuart Hoss Racing was just a bunch of racers, you know, and we just worked our guts out.
And with the new car, you can't do that.
You really can't just outwork somebody.
I mean, you have to have all the pieces and parts and the details figured out.
And, you know, every single piece and part has got to be pushed to the limit.
And, you know, some people are able to do that.
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think that the more that the 19 is still Briscoe's car listening to he and James talk,
because it's really interesting when you go back and you look at a true ex situation where
didn't win many races at the end had seemed like fast cars.
But it sounds like didn't put the time in that Briscoe is now putting in from a simulation standpoint,
time at the shop, whatever that is and listening to James compare Briscoe and Martin.
You know, the effort level from the driver compartment department is much higher.
And I think that like when you go back, I mean, obviously everybody kind of knows our relationship.
We didn't go a day without texting talking about something about our race car.
And then, you know, I don't know how your relationship was with Justin.
Was it the same? Not the same, but listening to James and Briscoe talk about it.
It sounds like they're in there all the freaking time from a simulator standpoint.
How is how is that important?
Even if a SIM session doesn't go bad, how does that relate to what you put in the car?
How it goes to the engineers and how does that because we hear a lot of the drivers don't do it.
We hear some that do it a lot.
How does that help the engineering side from a time standpoint when it's when it's low or high?
I've always said any any communications, good communication.
Yeah. So, you know, going to the simulator and talking about things.
That's just more communication and it helps every standpoint of it.
Yes, there's there's weeks that the simulator of the tire model is not perfect.
And you go off the simulator and you unload at the race track and you're off, right?
But, you know, there's organizations that have put in the effort and have their tire models figured out
and they show up at the racetrack and it matches.
And I think that's where the 19 is right now.
I mean, if you're spending that much time a week in there and and you're showing up
and your cars fast right off the truck, then, you know, that's the circle that you want to, you know,
keep connected is to keep all those dots going in the right direction.
And, you know, there's other times.
I mean, we had that, you know, this year at the beginning of the year, you know,
I was new to the Chevrolet side of things.
My engineer was new to the Chevrolet side of things.
And there was a couple of races that we went off the simulator and we weren't very good
when we unloaded.
And there was other races that we were good at the simulator and we unloaded really, really, really good.
So, you know, that's just part of figuring that out and having good communication,
believing in each other and working through it every week.
But, you know, you don't have a lot of tools anymore, right?
I mean, you don't have, you know, a lot of tests and you don't have a lot of practice.
So all you got is the simulator and you got to make it work.
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When you look at this car, obviously there's been a lot of talk
and you and I were involved in it from the beginning.
We've seen a lot of rule changes with the car, even though it doesn't look like it.
There's been a lot of time and effort put in from NASCAR standpoint
to talk about, you know, what they could do to the car.
But we've gone from super big spoilers to small spoilers
to the tires seem to have moved the needle as much as they can.
What do you think that they can do to the car to make it so that it races better
and is less bad behind each other in traffic?
I mean, let's just say you had a clean sheet of paper with the chassis.
What can they do to the car to make it so that it races better?
Yeah, I mean, you can always kind of pinpoint to the underbody
may be causing some of the stuff in traffic.
I still think the tires are too wide.
You know, I think you could narrow up the wheel from the inside.
You know, leave the outside of the wheel where it's at the face of the wheel
and just bring the inside of the wheel outboard basically
and narrow up the tires a couple of inches and
but the tires have moved the needle more than anything.
That's how I have felt from the get go.
You know, it's all about what's connecting the car to the track
that's going to make the most difference whether you're in, you know,
whether you're on a go-kart, whether you're in a late model,
whether it's a cup car.
That's really what's going to make the most difference.
And, you know, it's hard to throw away a bunch of race cars.
It's hard to throw away a bunch of bodies, a bunch of floors
that cost a lot of money.
You know, wheels cost a lot of money, but they're not near as bad
as throwing away race cars.
And, you know, I think it would be worth trying.
You know, it would cost a lot of money on Goodyear's standpoint
to redo molds and do all that stuff.
But, you know, we have to do what's right for the sport.
And it would be worth looking into that.
You know, I don't know on the car side, they have tried all kinds of stuff.
They really have nothing from an arrow side has moved the needle.
It really hasn't.
God knows how much NASCAR has spent.
I think if you could narrow up the tires and give them more power,
you know, I know they're in a tough box on the power standpoint.
And, you know, they want to, you know, keep it in a situation
where new manufacturers can come in and, you know, I understand that,
but at some point we need to try it.
You know, I remember the first day we put those plates on going into 2015,
we were like, man, I don't know if this is good.
And then, you know, that first next-gen test at Charlotte,
we put a bigger plate on it without really asking anybody.
Oh, my God.
And it made a ton of difference.
So I can only imagine going that next step, you know,
and being able to use the brakes more and get the men corner speed down,
you know, where that if you had more power and a smaller tire,
that men corner speed would come way down.
And that's really where we need to get.
Yeah, because that day when we did the first next-gen test,
they had to, I mean, the power was awful.
And they were as bad as they are now in traffic.
Can you imagine if what it would have been like
if we had started the next-gen cars with the low power
that they had unloaded that day?
I can only imagine.
It was awful.
And NASCAR had finally given up on the test that day
and just nothing was working.
Nothing was making anything better.
And what do we do? Who do we call?
Doug Yates.
Yeah, we call Doug Yates.
So we called Doug Yates and Doug sent over a bigger restrictor plate.
And before it was all said and done,
I don't know that NASCAR really appreciated the fact
when they said, do anything that we put a bigger restrictor plate on.
But it definitely moved the needle.
And the next thing you know, you had half the garage over there saying,
what in the hell just happened?
Yeah.
Why did you do this?
And then the next thing you know, everybody realized
that it needed more power.
But I know we talk about the power thing
and we talk about the manufacturers.
Obviously we see Dodge coming into the sport
and doing the things that they're doing.
You see the new wiring harness and things that are starting
to happen with, you know, some of the changes
that are going to be made to the car.
But I'm like you, I don't really understand
why we just don't put a bigger restrictor plate on there
to see what another big horsepower increase.
I think right now they gave them enough power
to just tell everybody that they gave them some more power.
It's not going to move the needle unless you get
150 more horsepower.
And I understand that the manufacturers and the engines,
you know, it takes time to get the parts.
But at some point, I'm like you, don't you need to try it?
Even if it's just for the short tracks and road courses?
Yeah.
And you know, to me, I feel like, and if Doug was standing here
or Scotty Maxim, they might tell you something different.
But I've always felt like the durability side comes from the RPM.
You know, we can make 900 horsepower engines
that turn 7800 RPM and will last five races.
I don't think it would be that hard.
You know, if we're going to go back to trying to run 9800 RPM,
yeah, they're going to tear up a lot of stuff, right?
And sometimes I think the engines need to blow up every once in a while.
Well, for sure.
I really do.
I think the engines don't blow up enough.
We don't have enough stuff like that happen during the race.
And I know that's not what the teams and the engine manufacturers
want to hear.
But I think that the teams have too much control.
They have too much control of the rules, manufacturers,
you know, they'll do probably whatever they have to do.
But at some point, we have to try to blow the thing up
to make it better in a big way.
And I don't know if there's any merit to when you go back
and look at the Le Mans car that Hendrick built
and you look where the fuel cell is
and you look at all the weight
and all the different arrow devices.
To me, it's all kind of sitting there with some different ideas
of things that they did with that car
to be able to move the needle.
Because the things that we're doing haven't worked.
But I think even from the weight side,
I mean, that car is heavy.
I mean, could you even get two or three hundred pounds
of weight out of it?
I mean, with the floors and there'd be a bunch of things
that have to change.
Yeah, it would be a bunch of things that would have to change.
You know, you can get some weight out of the body.
You know, if it went to a full carbon body,
you could start getting some weight out of it.
You know, the greenhouse is still pretty heavy.
There's some other parts and pieces
that are still pretty heavy.
But, you know, I mean,
I think they're trying to figure it out one day at a time.
I know a little bit I taught the probes.
You know, they have a lot of CFD going on in the background
that a lot of people don't hear about.
They do it.
NASCAR actually does a lot of work with it,
but they're just not moving the needle.
That's the hard part.
Yeah, I think the only thing that's going to move the needle
is what's connecting it to the track
and burn the tires off, burn the brakes off
and do all those things that we used to do.
Yeah, and it's such an interesting dynamic
as far as the way that the car is developed.
In my opinion, I think one thing that NASCAR has learned,
they used to just say,
hey, we're going to change the rules,
and the teams figured out how to do the work.
And now you've got parts sitting on the shelf.
You've got engines sitting on the shelf.
You've got all these things that you have to buy
that you've promised the vendor that they're going to sell,
it seems really complicated to go through that process.
So how motivating has this whole little break for you been?
I know that you touched on it a little bit earlier,
but I think anytime that something happens that you're like,
hmm, yeah, I can show them that I can do this way better.
I just want to smash them.
I really do.
That's dangerous.
I've seen that.
It's put me in a situation where I just want to prove a point.
And over time, I had accumulated some things.
And as you know, I like going and riding UTVs
and doing different things.
And over this time, I've got rid of every distraction that I have.
I have no more distractions.
And the only distraction I have is a family and kids
and maybe going to a cross-country meet.
But, you know, whenever this next opportunity comes about,
it's going to be 24-7.
And I'm not going to lay down.
I'll be the first one there and the last one to leave.
And we'll see what happens from there.
Yeah.
And I think that you tell me this.
I think that the Crew Chief role in today's world,
when these guys are done or you're ready to,
I think there's another step now.
I think that the Gen 7 car puts you in a position
to lead an organization as well from a competition standpoint,
more so than it ever has from a Crew Chief role.
Is that fair?
Unfair.
I agree 100%.
And you look at what Gabe Hart's doing at JGR.
Gabe Hart is, you know, we grew up together.
We raced together.
We raced go-karts together, lake miles together.
We did all that stuff.
And, you know, really, really you just,
you want to work for somebody that's a good leader.
That's a good person, you know,
that has your back through thick and thin.
And, you know, I feel like I could do that.
You know, if the Crew Chief and thing was over with,
I feel like I can lead a group.
I feel like people would want to come work for me.
They would know that I've got their back
and would support them and give them the best tools that I can
and all those things.
So, you know, it's in a weird spot right now.
You know, I don't know how it's all going to happen.
And we're just going to take it one day at a time
and figure it out.
So you've been able to watch now.
The big topic, one of the big topics lately
has been the points, the championship.
Is it exciting, not exciting?
What is your opinion on the whole points piece of it?
You know, I think it's, I don't think it's a 36 raise
all out points, but I think points should matter
way, way, way more than what they do.
As you've watched now and you've seen all the banter,
where do you sit on all that?
It's interesting because as a Crew Chief,
you sit on the pit box and you work your gut out
and you're just thinking the whole race
and you get done with a race
and you're like, man, that was a good race.
And then you get on the airplane and you look at your phone
and everybody's talking about it was a bad race.
I'm like, well, I didn't see it that way from the pit box.
And after you set it home for four months
and you watch all of them on TV,
there's some of them that are different
than what it would have felt like on the pit box for sure.
And some of that is whether you're competitive
that day or not, you know, from a pit box standpoint.
So I mean, there's been a few of them that I'm like,
man, we got to do something different
to make this show a little bit better.
There's other ones that have been really good races.
You know, I think me and you never liked going to the New Atlanta,
but it's been probably pretty damn exciting to watch.
That's about the best one I've seen on TV.
So, you know, this weekend at Bristol will be exciting
and always puts on a good race.
And to me, it does.
It's one of my favorite places.
So do we need cutoff races?
Do we need three or four races at the end?
We need a champion, a playoff champion.
I mean, what do we need?
Yeah, to go back to the points thing.
Yeah.
Doing and doing 36 races would be pretty boring at times.
You look back at those years, like 2015 for us or 2018, 2020.
Lord, we would have won the points.
Yeah.
What?
I think I wanted to spend the championship one year by 820 points.
So, you know, we don't need that as a sport,
but I don't know what we need.
You know, I've kind of got some interest in what it would look like
doing the last three races.
I've heard that kind of thrown around quite a bit.
I like that.
I think it would.
I think it's better than one race.
Yeah.
I mean, just one race at one track is, you know,
if we're not going to move it around every week,
you know, one organization kind of figures out a track
and, you know, they can just go in every year, you know.
And I don't think we want that.
So, you know, I think we, you know, try to move it around
a bit more, you know, try to do the last three race deal.
And, you know, if you have a bad race, you have a bad race,
but it would definitely be exciting that way.
I believe.
So, who are your final four?
You had to pick today.
Man, I pick, I always pick Christopher Bell every time.
Yeah.
You know, I just, I just like what he does.
I really do.
I think Brisco can get there.
I think Denny Hamlin might be his year that he can get it done.
I think the relationship with Chris Gale has been good.
And I think it's only got better throughout the year.
Yeah.
But, you know, the normal guys,
the William Byron's and Kyle Larson,
I think the biggest thing would be interesting
and just to see if Blaney can make it to the final four.
I think Blaney and Logano have always got a shot, right?
But the Fords haven't had the speed that they need.
The light switch hasn't gone off to start the playoffs.
The light switch hasn't started like it normally does.
So in gateways, always been one of their best tracks.
So it'd be interesting to see what they can do over the next few weeks.
That five car would be extremely fast this weekend at Bristol.
And, but I feel like the light switch has flipped for the Toyota
since the playoffs started.
And when somebody can do that, they're going to be hard to beat.
Yeah.
So who's your champ?
You can only pick one.
You didn't, you didn't even pick four for me.
I know.
Now I'm going to make you pick one.
I'm still going to go with Christopher Bell.
I think the last few years he's, he's deserved to be there
and had a shot at it and hadn't quite had it, you know,
hadn't gotten to victory lane for the championship,
but they've got a good team.
They got a good crew chief.
I know he wasn't happy after the race yesterday,
but Adam's the kind of guy that can rally behind him
and make it happen.
Well, I appreciate you taking the time.
It was good to catch up.
I know everybody's always interested in what's going to happen.
So we'll be waiting around to, to see how it all turns out.
So thanks for taking the time.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
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