The Carmudgeon Show Apr 14, 2025

Stuck in No Snow & Random Car Reviews — Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 189

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Company

Viper Industrial

Viper Industrial is a company that sells products related to cars and other things. They have a contest where you can win a Porsche if you buy something from them.

Car

Tiptronic

Tiptronic is a feature in some automatic cars that lets you change gears manually if you want more control while driving.

Car

Porsche Turbo Cabriolet

The 2008 Porsche Turbo Cabriolet is a fast and luxurious convertible car. It has a powerful engine and is designed for sporty driving.

Car

Tesla Model

The Tesla Model Y Performance is a faster version of the Model Y, which is an electric SUV. It has better acceleration and some extra features compared to the regular Model Y.

Term

winter tires

Winter tires are special tires made for driving in cold weather, snow, and ice. They help your car grip the road better when it's slippery outside.

Term

chains

Chains are metal links that you put around your car's tires to help them grip the road better in snow and ice. They are used when the roads are really slippery.

Term

ground clearance

Ground clearance is how high the bottom of a car is from the ground. Cars with higher ground clearance can drive over bumps and rough roads more easily.

Term

side walls

Side walls are the sides of a tire that connect the part that touches the road to the part that goes on the wheel. They help the tire stay strong and absorb bumps.

Term

all season tires

All season tires can be used in different weather conditions, so you don't have to change them for winter or summer. They work okay in most situations but might not be the best for extreme weather.

Term

dedicated snows

Dedicated snow tires are made for winter driving. They help your car grip the road better when it's snowy or icy, making it safer to drive in those conditions.

Car

four-wheel drive

Four-wheel drive means that all four wheels of a car can get power from the engine at the same time. This helps the car grip the road better, especially in bad weather or rough terrain.

Company

VinFast

VinFast is a car company from Vietnam that makes electric cars. They are trying to sell their cars in other countries as well.

Car

Honda Civic

The Honda Civic is a well-known small car that many people drive. It's famous for being dependable and good on gas.

Term

summer tires

Summer tires are made for warm weather and help cars grip the road better when it's hot. They don't work well in cold or snowy weather.

Term

stopping distance

Stopping distance is how far a car goes after you press the brakes until it stops completely. Different tires and road conditions can change how far the car travels before it stops.

Term

Michelin tires

Michelin is a well-known brand that makes tires for cars. They are recognized for making high-quality tires that perform well in different conditions.

Car

Ford F150

The Ford F-150 is a popular truck that many people use for carrying heavy loads and driving in different conditions.

Car

Volkswagen Egolf

The e-Golf is a version of the Volkswagen Golf that runs on electricity instead of gasoline, making it better for the environment.

Term

track tires

Track tires are special tires that help cars go faster and handle better on racetracks, but they wear out quicker than regular tires.

Car

Mercedes-Benz R-129

The R-129 is a model of the Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, a line of luxury sports cars that were made from 1989 to 2002. It is known for its stylish design and powerful engines.

Company

034 Motorsports

034 Motorsports is a company that makes parts to make cars like Audis and Volkswagens go faster and handle better. They focus on improving performance.

Part

rear sway bar

A rear sway bar is a part of the car that helps it stay stable when going around corners. It connects the back wheels to keep the car from leaning too much.

Term

four-wheel drift

A four-wheel drift is when a car slides sideways through a turn using all four wheels. It's a way to control the car while going fast around a corner, often seen in racing.

Car

Mercedes E55 AMG

The Mercedes E55 AMG is a fast and luxurious car made by Mercedes-Benz. It's designed for people who want both comfort and speed in their vehicle.

Car

Mercedes-Benz E430 4MATIC

The E430 4MATIC is a type of luxury car made by Mercedes-Benz. It has all-wheel drive, which means it can send power to all four wheels for better traction, especially in bad weather.

Part

brake master cylinder

The brake master cylinder helps your car stop by pushing brake fluid to the brakes when you press the pedal. It's an important part of the braking system.

Car

Porsche Panamera

The Porsche Panamera Turbo is a fast and luxurious car with four doors. It's designed to be comfortable for passengers while still being very powerful and sporty.

Car

BMW 760 Li

The BMW 760 Li is a high-end luxury car with a very powerful engine, designed for comfort and performance.

Car

Rolls-Royce Rollsroyce Corniche

Car

Aston Martin DB7 Vantage

Car

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Comargin Show. My name is Derek Tam, Scott, and my name is Jason Camisa. It's late in the day, and we need to go home. No, no, we're just about to get started on this episode of The Comargin Show, in which we discuss tires, we get a tire update, and also a random number generator car reviews look into the spreadsheet switch.

We're ready to track the cars that we have driven.

Now I clap, poorly, it's on brand, these are, these are not, these things, they are their John stands, John, but J.O.H.N. not J.A.W.N., which is a Phillyism, John, you know what John is? John is a thing, like a do hikki or a hikki jigger, or, you know what I'm saying?

The hikki jigger, or, get that John over there. It occurs to me that JFK and his wife have the same name kind of, Jack and Jackie.

On this episode of The Comargin Show, we discuss the name, John, yeah it is, it has been for quite some time.

John J.A.W.N. is a different thing than J.O.H.N., or J.O.N., or indeed Jack, but these are Jack stands for a Carmage and Logo, which you can't see, because there is a fiber chair on the way.

It's made in America, yes.

By Green Bay Wisconsin, hopefully avoiding tariffs, but made out of only real materials, i.e. not plastic, e-crab.

These are, these are according to the Viper people, these are used by real people like J.Leno. I should ask J.Leno.

Excuse me, sorry to use Viper chairs. And Honda?

Yeah, Honda's on the list. Honda's on the list?

Yeah, I didn't pay attention to such things. However, from April 11th through June 22nd, Viper chairs are giving away a 2021 Python green Porsche GT4.

Well, they're not giving it away from April 11th to June 22nd, they are accepting entries.

Okay, so every $5 you spend at Viper industrial.com, you will be entered for a chance to win the GT4 plus $15,000 in cash to pay for taxes.

Tires.

The full rules and details are at Viper industrial.com, that's a Viper with a YVYP or your...

Gesundheit? Viper VYP or industrial.com.

Did we mention the Porsche was green?

I said it was Python green.

Python green?

Not Viper green.

Wrong shark.

Yeah, wrong shark.

Python is a shark?

No.

Anyway, more importantly, Viper chairs is the sponsor of this episode.

And if you use the coupon code Carmugin on Viper, good luck spelling that.

It's on the website.

Hey, no.

See, it's Carmugin with a car because it's not Carmugin with Carmugin, do you not know?

C-A-R-M-U-D-G-E-O-N.

You will get $50 off.

$50 bucks is a lot, especially considering you guys are absorbing this podcast for free.

So it just benefits all around.

Would you mind taking the chair down?

I will direct the John stands.

I just hope you fall a little bit.

It is a heavy, heavy chair.

Derek broke the unbreakable chair.

No, it just means someone with more muscles.

You should spend more time in the gym, young man.

Okay, well, I should leave shortly to go do that.

You should spend more time in the James.

Formal gym is short for James in the way that Jack stands is short for James for John stands.

Okay, so that's a formal, formal gym, formal attire only.

Yes.

So I have an update.

I learned something.

Don't hurt yourself.

I know.

If you were trying to have traction

and if you were trying to get your tires to track upon the ground.

This is going to be deep.

Helpful to have said tires.

Touch the ground.

Okay.

Well, my vanjana got high-sided.

High-centered.

I don't know.

Well, high-sided is when you crash a motorcycle and you fly off the high-sided.

Maybe I did.

How do you know?

I don't know.

What you do with your vanjana is entirely between you and your God.

So as you guys might remember, we did a Lancaster episode of Icons

and we drove Jake, actually drove the vanjana all the way to Utah in the middle of winter.

And Fredas and Tires gave us a set of wind track pros.

And I had yet to experience those wind track he did.

Jake got to, but I never experienced the wind track pros in snow.

So I went to tow in the winter.

And the day before the Airbnb was set to be available to us.

Tau got four feet of snow according to all the news.

But this is not accurate these days.

Apparently according to politicians might be right.

There was not a fucking snowflake.

Nothing.

There was literally not a snowflake of snow to be found anywhere around Lake Tau.

I mean, there were like, that's not entirely true.

I did park it on like a 12-inch wide by six-inch wide by two-inch high pile of snow

that was in the yard of the Airbnb and make up funny photo of it.

But anyway, so I got up one morning and I'm like, I'm going to find snow.

So I drove up to Mount Rose, which is like a 9,300 out of the feet of elevation.

And I found a parking lot that had snow, it was fully snow covered.

I'm like, yes, I'm gonna go get the van stuck in the snow.

Guess what I did.

You got the van stuck in the snow?

No, I drove right up.

And there was perfect amounts of grip.

It was no problem at all.

I could tell that the snow was on dirt.

So I didn't spin tire too much and I took it easy and I took a beautiful picture in the snow.

And there was an actual, fuck, I couldn't even pay anyone to do this.

A skier that came through and skied right past my van China.

It was amazing.

And I'm like, we got a slow-mo picture of the video, which I'll insert, probably Jake.

Jake, if you could insert that right now while I'm talking of the tire spinning

and the snow getting flung everywhere and it was just wonderful.

So my friends all piled back into the car after the dog was like,

you know, one of their dogs was out playing in the snow.

And we go to back out and we're like maybe seven, six feet from the road,

which is completely dry and there's no snow anywhere else.

And I stopped to wait for traffic to clear.

And I pulled my foot off the brake and the front of the van China goes

right into the fucking, into probably a ditch that I couldn't see

because everything was snow covered and was stuck the fuck stuck.

Hi, centered.

Hi, sited.

Hi, centered or whatever you choose to call my van China.

Yeah.

And for the first time in my life, I had to call triple A to get one.

First time in your life?

Well, to get wind, to get...

First time in my life that I was so stuck that I couldn't get out.

And we, like, it was so comprehensively stuck that like...

And it was instant.

It was just pull your foot off the brake and...

So, so high-center that we couldn't rock it, nothing.

Couldn't move it at all.

Four of us.

I've heard a bunch of us.

Monthly guys, too.

Like, actual strong, young, strapping meant.

And so it took two seconds for a triple A to drag it out.

I mean, it was so embarrassing.

It was very terrible.

So, unfortunately, I was unable to fully test this.

So you need 33s.

So, okay, there's a YouTube channel called Tyre Reviews.

There's Sky with Weird Axen.

He's the thin and he needs to eat a bagel because he's skinny.

But he tests all kinds of tires and talks funny.

And he wrote that comment basically on my Instagram.

You need 33s.

You need 33s on this, you need bigger tires.

But I bring him up for good reason because on the way home,

there was actually a massive storm incoming

that was going to dump a couple feet on Tahoe

and I would have happily stayed,

but, you know, work and Airbnb and stuff like that.

So we go to leave and we get to the base of whatever road

gets you up to Donner Pass or whatever and it's closed

and it's chain control.

And California has a, I think it's just California.

I don't know what states.

California has a chain control thing

and I watch them wave every single fucking car through

because everyone's in an SUV,

including a Tesla Model Y performance that was in front of us.

And they're like, you there.

So I had to pull over in the van

with four brand new winter dedicated winter tires on this car

and apply chains to the front of the car,

which I had never done before.

And luckily, quite pleasant, isn't it?

It wasn't. No, it was awful.

It wasn't as bad as I thought it was.

It was maybe because that car has ground clearance

and side walls.

The problem is you have to sort of,

these chains are sort of open at the bottom

and you wrap them around the contact patch

and then you wrap around the top

and you have to clip them

and where you clip them is the fucking strut.

It's directly at the 12 o'clock position

and there was no room and it was cold

but everything was wet and I was like,

I didn't have snow pants with me,

like I was just not having any time at this.

And I was so goddamn irritated

that everyone's going

and I know all these fucking cars

are on all season tires

and I have dedicated snows

and I just, I was getting more and more angry by this again.

But I didn't yell at anyone.

I just applied the chains

and they waved me through

and now it's just a terrible sound.

And they're, I think they're called ladder type.

They're not actual chains

but they're like steel ropes or whatever.

And so they're rated to 30 miles an hour.

The roadway says speed limit is,

speed limit is 25.

There is not any snow on the ground.

Whatsoever is merely wet

and barely wet at that.

So I set the cruise control 29 miles an hour

and for the next 0200 years,

I am holding up 74 billion cars.

Every car ever produced in the history of the world

was all simultaneously stuck behind me.

No one in front of me from miles

but I'm not.

This is why everyone says,

I need a four wheel drive.

It's not because they actually need four wheel drive

it's because they don't want to stop a chain control.

Chain control.

Yes.

After I don't even know how long it was,

it felt like 45 minutes

because I was so embarrassed

but probably it was over

in maybe seven minutes.

I couldn't do it anymore

and I pulled over

and I radioed to my friends.

One of them was in a VinFast

and the other was in a Range Rover

with the one that broke down

with need AAA plates on it.

Neither of them have winter tires on their car

neither of them got stopped

but they did wait for me.

And he didn't need AAA but you did.

Why do you have to be like that?

Pointing out facts.

Damn it.

Yes, that too.

And so they waited for me

while I took the chains off

which got tangled on the back of the thing

and we were in like a fucking creek

running down the street.

It was very upsetting.

And yeah, very annoying

and I was on a bit of a rant

and my friends were making fun of me

because I'm like,

this is like a fucking TSA level farce.

Like, what the fuck is my toothpaste

going to do?

Blow up a fucking plane?

I just was like,

this is like those schmucks

at the fucking airport

who are like,

you can't have more than two ounces of fucking whatever.

Whatever.

Three plate four.

Whatever the fuck it is,

it's actually not even a law anymore.

But basically,

the whole TSA thing,

I'm sorry,

it's not a farce.

I want to not die in a plane explosion

but also the way they go about this

is more theater than anything else.

And I feel like this chain controls the same way

and I was in very much a mood

to make this very clear to my friends.

So I get,

we get in the van

and I'm like, fuck it,

we're doing 50

and there's another chain control ahead

and ways,

because ways is amazing.

Routes around the other chain control thing

to get on at a different spot.

I'm like,

I will beat these motherfuckers.

By the way,

the van has about seven horsepower

at a million feet of elevation.

So we're climbing this hill

and climbing this hill.

Now all of a sudden,

it starts to get snowy

and I start thinking,

oh, I hope I don't actually need to put the chains on

on this side road.

And we get to the,

almost top of the hill

and we merge back

onto the freeway

and there's no cops there

or anyone requiring chains.

And I know chain control's active.

I'm like, well,

I'll just say I didn't know

if I get pulled over or something.

We get on the highway

and it's a little bit

as like a dusting of snow.

And this is probably

the first time any of these cars

have encountered any snow

because it wasn't actually snowing it.

And then we come to a screeching halt.

I have no problems

keeping up with traffic

like everyone comes to stop

because the fucking Tesla model

Y performance decided

to throw itself

into a Jersey barrier

and totaled itself.

And of course, I'm like,

that, that is the farce.

He is on fucking all seasons

and then I looked in performance

and realized he's on summer tires

and they let him through.

They let the guy

on summer performance tires

through because he's got

a four-wheel drive

and not my van jyna on winters.

And if we learned anything

from consuming the content

of engineering explained,

it's the tires matter

more than anything else.

There's only one thing

touching the ground.

Technically four of them

but it's all the same thing.

It's your tires.

Nothing else matters.

And by the way,

if you can't stop

or nothing else matters,

it's that your ability

to accelerate is

like if you put a rear-wheel drive car

and a front-wheel drive car

and a four-wheel drive car

on all in the same tire,

they will have different capabilities.

Part of the

fine.

But in your ability

to have traction

at whatever axles there,

the only thing that touch

is my point is the only thing

that's touching the ground

is the tire.

And if your tire doesn't have a grip,

it doesn't matter what you have to do.

Four-wheel drive is immaterial

if you don't have tires

that can adhere to the surface.

Exactly.

And I had actually planned

on racing the VinFast

versus the van jyna twice

once on dry pavement

to show that the VinFast

was an order of magnitude quicker,

especially at elevation,

which it most certainly was.

And we did that race,

and it just left me for dead.

And then I planned on doing the race again

when we were on snow

to show that the van

is additional traction

thanks to the winter tires,

vastly more than made up

for the power difference.

Unfortunately, we never

got to drive on snow,

so it didn't happen.

But so yeah,

so I'm like on this

fucking tear about

like why would they let these cars

through that can make it up the hill,

but then are crashing on the way down

and realize every car in a ditch

it probably had all season tires on it, whatever.

So I get home,

and I turn on my YouTube

and I watch tire reviews

does a video,

and I'm going to show you

this thing,

and then we're going to use an insert

for these people.

So this gentleman

has done a scientific test

at I think he was

at Michelin proving ground,

where he's talking,

where he's demonstrating

actual braking distances

from 20 down to five miles an hour

on the same car,

but I think it was a Honda Civic

in this test.

And the all season tires

I think that came on the car

and remember what they were,

stopped.

Where's the summer tires?

The summer tires

wouldn't have made a garage.

Let's be very clear on this.

Required 74 feet to stop

from 20 down to five miles an hour

and the winter tires

required 34.

So less than half

the stopping distance

between all seasons

and winters,

and then somewhere

in the middle

are the wide table

cable ties,

metal ladders,

which is what I had on it,

snow chains, snow socks

and impressively good.

In snow, but actually

didn't do a goddamn thing

in ice.

So I recommend the video.

Maybe I'll try to

put the link in the description

if we can remember to do that.

And it was the same situation

with attraction

and accelerating.

The all seasons required

eight seconds to get

from five to 10 miles an hour,

whereas the winter tires

were 3.3.

And nothing else was close.

But I think the most

interesting thing here

is stopping, I think,

is more important

than going.

Because it's a safety thing.

But if you look at this,

the cable ties

and the snow chains

and all of the other solutions

that you can put onto

an all season tire

and all of these other things

were on the all seasons,

the winter tires

were by themselves.

Don't even come

to the stopping distance

of winter tires.

Not even remotely close.

16 foot-

breaking distance.

You're 12.

12.

I can do math.

I'm smart.

Just not right now.

Yes.

Or usually.

It's a huge difference.

And that's an enormous 12 on 34 feet.

Yes.

It's a third more.

Right.

And you know,

when you're talking about

the difference between 74 feet

and 35 feet,

I did an episode of my

the show that was

eventually known as

Know It All started

I was called proper

Karen feeding.

And one of the episodes I did

was winter tires

versus summer tires

in terms of breaking distances.

And the

I'll try to find it

and maybe use an insert.

But if I remember correctly,

it was something like

from a 70 mile an hour stop,

if you put a tree

right where the

car and winter tires

came to a complete stop.

And just went faster.

How fast would you be going?

How fast would you go in the tree?

When you hit the tree

with summer tires.

And it was a fatal accident.

It was just fatal.

There's no one surviving that.

It was like

50 something.

But whatever it was,

it was a couple of years ago.

Here's an example

using actual real-world tests.

Two identical cars

traveling down a snow-covered highway.

It's 60 miles an hour.

They're both wearing

Michelin tires.

Best tires in the world.

I'm H.O.

One of them has all season

tires.

And the other one has

dedicated winter tires.

All of a sudden,

a reindeer jumps out

in front of them.

And the car with winter tires

stops just before it clips

off Rudolph at the ankles.

The all season tire car

slams into Rudolph

at 25 miles an hour.

A 25 mile an hour impact

is enough to kill you.

I get it.

You need to wax somebody.

But your normal guy went,

you know, upstate

for a couple of months.

A problem.

All you got to do

is buy him a nice

cheap set of all season tires.

Send him to Chicago

January.

Next thing you know?

Splat!

Closed careskin.

Nobody suspected that.

This incensed me.

That those boobs

in their all season

four-wheel drive cars

were allowed to proceed

and I had to stop.

And so the next time

I go to Tahoe in my

van jyna,

I'm putting four-wheel drive

badges all over the

fucking thing

and giving the finger

to the gentleman

who were trying to stop me

and just driving right

through.

Because I don't need

no got

fast forward to the next

episode of the Carmage Show,

where I'm like,

yeah, I got stuck on the way up

to Tahoe,

and I got re-rended by

F-150 that was on summer tires

because he could make it up

and I couldn't.

Whatever.

Get the point.

I was very angry.

More importantly,

what happens when you leave

at your house?

This is a Carmage

and Lesson number one, right?

Carmages don't go any

or Carmage and certainly

don't go anywhere.

But they walk

out the front door

and take it off my lawn.

That's right.

That is my

pathetic tire update is

Fredasign Windtracks

aren't good in the snow

when they're not touching the snow.

No offense to Fredasign.

They're hate to say it,

but if the tire doesn't

contact the snow

in the first place,

it can't grip.

So don't high center

in China.

The practical advice.

Your doctor would tell you

the same thing.

And also don't believe

the news when they say

Tahoe got four feet of snow

because what they mean is

the ski resorts

that are thousands of feet

higher elevation got four

feet of snow

and Lake Tahoe got drizzle.

Splendid.

Faster.

The service wagon has

Fredasign, but they're

not snow-rated.

They are

not.

We still need to do a

Fredasign tire update

because if those of you

guys remember, Fredasign said

it's a whole shit

done on tires.

But I don't,

I have not fully experienced

all of the tires yet.

I still have the

summers for my eGolf,

which are all track pros.

I have not driven so much

as a mile yet,

because I'm still on my

quote-unquote winter tires,

which are quad tracks.

Those same things

those, right?

You have quad tracks.

I will say at this point,

I remain completely blown away

by every one of the

Fredasign tires that I have.

Rovers transformed

by this for classics.

And the quad tracks are

great.

Overall tires.

Your rally coming soon.

I will have a lot more

commentary.

Large barge rally coming

with a quad tracks on my R-129.

You have quad tracks

or regular quad tracks on them?

Okay.

Whatever these are.

Non-high performance quad tracks.

Yeah.

I just had...

What's available

in $2.25, $55, $16.

It's a weird size.

I just had our friend,

Nick Marconante,

of 0-3-4 in the eGolf.

And Nick is the drug

pusher who gave me

that rear sway bar.

So I thought it was only

appropriate to slide around

a corner with him in the car

and listen for his giggling

when it went neutral

and did a four-wheel drift.

And he thought I still had

the Michelin pilot

PS4S is on the car.

He's like, man,

that's a lot of grip

from these Michelins.

And I'm like,

I'm not performance-y,

Fredestine,

just summer...

There's summer, right?

There are summer.

I'll see whatever they are.

They're not high-performance tires.

And yet they grip,

like the Dickens.

But we'll do a full tire update.

And that's kind of a surface piece

because I have some

negative comments about Michelin,

which I never thought I would say.

Wow.

John's quite the bombshell.

Shit.

A Michelin chunked.

Four of them did.

Anyway.

That's not what we're here today.

We have...

I felt inappropriate

to share with you those images

on my laptop machine.

Uh-huh.

Because today is a random

number generator.

For episode 190,

by the way.

Which were for 189.

And next week for the record

is episode 190.

So we will have to have them

or say these 190 in the background.

Wherever are we going to find

one of those?

It's literally parked outside.

And you know this.

And you shouldn't lie to me

or our audience.

Looking at that at Cameron

apologize.

I want a heartfelt apology now.

Right.

Give us a number, Jake.

I hereby apologize on behalf

of Derek Tim Hifenscott

for lying to you,

our esteemed viewers.

I'm done.

Okay.

Now we will pull out.

So for those of you

who have never heard this before,

our random number generator episodes

are us randomly generating numbers.

Actually, Jake.

Jake's computer,

if we're being specific,

randomly generating numbers,

which will tell us what cell

to go into our spreadsheets

of all the cars we've ever driven,

and read the terrible things

we've set about them.

Outlaw to you.

So the first number is 800.

Is that for Jason or for Derek?

Okay.

Derek, what's your maximum number?

It's 13-something.

13-something.

I'm at 28.

Jake, I lied to you.

2875 somehow.

There was some missing.

But okay.

898.

You want to go first if you found it?

1999 Mercedes E55 AMG

Formatic Station Wagon.

Excuse me.

What?

Yes.

No.

There were 15 built.

No.

Yeah.

There were 15 Formatic E55 Wagon W210s built.

S210.

Yes.

Oh, that's hot.

Supercharger or natural aspirated?

No, they were all naturally aspirated.

The supercharger one hadn't come out yet.

That was with the 211.

You're not even saying anything.

Forget it.

I love it.

I want it.

So goodbye to your OTS.

Great service wagon.

It was recently cheap.

But yeah, only 15 were made.

They were all converted by AMG,

I think, not like built Mercedes-wise,

but actually converted by AMG

based on E430 Formatic wagons.

So, 15 of those cars were made.

That's hot.

And a friend of mine owned two of them simultaneously.

And this was when we were in Europe

for our rally,

and the 190 was sick as usual.

And he gave it to us as a parts runner to borrow

to go get a master cylinder,

a brake master cylinder

from a junkyard.

So that it could be installed over.

Yes.

So that it could be installed overnight

so that we could allegedly fix the brakes

before the rally,

which it did not do.

But we did get a new master cylinder

from a junkyard.

New used master cylinder

from a junkyard in Switzerland.

And you also did drive it.

And we needed a formatic station wagon

in order to pick up the master cylinder.

One does.

That's very cool.

I didn't know that car existed.

Yeah.

Neither did I.

I mean, I hadn't heard noises about it.

But it's a E55 wagon with four-wheel drive.

It's now a formula that's very familiar.

But this was where it originated.

Four-wheel drive formatic E wagons, E63 wagons.

Yeah.

But not a 210.

Not a 210, huh?

That's very, very cool.

Yeah.

Very special car.

For me, that is a 2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo.

I put 200 miles on this thing, which is a lot.

Oh no.

I have an episode coming up where I'm doing some Porsche stuff

and I'm wondering if I should read this.

Someone said,

someone meeting in the group of our

the people were testing these cars

because this was,

this was during a comparison test.

I also, that same day, same week,

drove a 760 LI BMW and S63 AMG.

So obviously I was doing some sort of comparison test

and I did a combined total of 1,000 miles on them.

Someone said,

the only thing special about the Panamera

is its badge,

and I kind of agree.

Okay.

I thought it was supposed to be good.

I was not a fan of that first generation.

But let me read what I wrote,

and I'll tell you what I remember.

Okay, its performance is amazing by the numbers.

But it's no fun to drive and it's hideous to look at.

I agree.

The best thing about it?

The optional stereo.

I hate it.

I want a much better transmission.

I want some passion from the engine.

I want steering feedback.

I want brake feel.

I want a more plush interior with more comfortable seats.

I want switch gear that I can read while driving.

I want different styling and I want a better ride.

This is the Ford or GTR.

And as such,

it is everything that it shouldn't be.

Ouch.

God, I'm a bitch.

I don't remember hating.

So, what I do remember about that first-hand penamera.

So, this is an S.

It's like a 4.5 or V8.

Oh, okay.

It's a turbo.

What I do remember about that car is I have a huge amount of

bushing compliance up front.

It was a suspension would rock back a full inch under breaking

and the steering would just go wonky and do weird things.

And I talked to a bunch of engineers about it afterwards

and they told me that Porsche had to do that

because the front mounting points for the suspension

and the structure of the car was so weak

that they had to build in all of that bushing compliance

or they would crack the frame in half.

And the...

That doesn't sound like a very German solution to a problem.

And the testing department of one of those cars competitors

then told me after that,

that they would retire their penameras

and I think 10,000 kilometers

because they were no longer structurally sound,

on tests that they would carry out on their cars

up to 100,000 or more kilometers.

I never liked the way that car drove.

I thought it was structurally efficient.

It was immediately obvious that it was structurally deficient

and it was so fucking ugly that I have to quote,

oh, I probably can't name them.

There's a designer whose name is similar to mine,

who named it when he worked at Pine in Faruna.

He named it the Panamera.

Yeah, which is...

What it deserves because it was ugly.

Sorry, sorry.

And bad.

Ugly and bad.

This is to be clear, the first generation,

presumably subsequent generations are better.

Okay.

Next up, Mr. Rick.

979.

979, which is 10 more than a Porsche.

Okay, my 979.

Oh, annoying.

I have nothing written, but I remember exactly what this was.

This was May 11th of 2010.

I drove an Audi S4 6-speed manual, 300 miles,

together with the same day as I put 435 miles on an Acura TL,

SH-A-W-D 6-A-T.

What year is this?

2010.

There was still an S4 wagon available.

No, no.

Sorry, did I say wagon?

Did I hear wagon?

Maybe I heard wagon.

Maybe I said it by mistake because I was dreaming,

but no, they were both the dance.

So this was a comparison test together with this.

This is a B8.

Yes.

A comparison test that I did.

No, yes.

Yes.

The supercharged, the 2-percharged car,

because they called it 3.0-T.

I know, it was supercharged.

A comparison test I did for road and track between the TL and the S4,

and the TL actually won.

We liked kind of everything else about it.

That all the drive system was amazing.

The shifter was great.

Car looked a little bit buck toothy,

but it was actually faster around Beaver Run,

which is a race track outside of Pittsburgh that's been renamed.

Then the Audi was, but I couldn't get a full lap out of it

without the brakes overheating.

So we had to patch the runs together,

and it would have been faster.

But the weird thing about that whole thing was I had a ZDX,

which is not crazy looking accurate there as a typical.

BMW 5-series GT.

It was actually modeled after the X6.

So an accurate version of the X6.

But I used the ZDX to dry off the track,

because the track was wet,

and it also has super handling all the drive.

And I just did four-wheel drifts and beat the shit out of the ZDX

for a half an hour around the track,

and it was fine.

But the TL super handling all the drive,

six-speed manual, like sports an an,

immediately roasted its brakes.

That was very frustrating.

That's surprising.

Come on.

979 for me is a 1957 Porsche Speedster with Carrera motor.

So I think we have talked about the Carrera motor

and its infinite complexity.

It is entirely gear driven,

which means that the tolerances and lash and gears all,

the timing gears all gear driven,

and bevel drives and shafts and stuff like that.

No chains or any of that simplified nonsense.

Incredible volumetric efficiency,

really, really spicy, like a cool racing engine,

that, you know, they're $200,000,

because that's what they cost to rebuild.

To be very clear, what Derek just said was that this engine cost

$200,000.

The engine itself is worth $200,000.

Maybe more, actually.

And this is a 4-cam.

4-cylinder.

4-cylinder engine.

That's all pretty gear-driven.

And I think there exists the total number of people on planet Earth

who can do, can time this car,

is 0.6 or something.

It's actually rounds to one person,

but it's less than one person who can do this.

Yeah, they're a really cool engine.

So this car was not originally a Carrera Speedster,

but someone had put a Carrera engine.

It was very cool to get to experience the Carrera engine,

because most of these, not most.

A lot of these cars that have Carrera engines,

people take them out because they're so expensive

and troublesome to live with.

But this one had like a pea shooter racing car exhaust

that really sounded quite spicy.

It was a neat experience.

Dual ignition.

So when you start it up, it feels like a whole procedure,

because you have two ignition switches.

There's a keyhole,

and then you have little knobs for each magneto to turn them on.

So it feels very airplaney as you are.

Okay, as someone who has never experienced one of these engines,

is it enough to say,

like, it's so cool and it's experienced

that you'd rather have that than this than like a 2-7 RS-6?

No.

No, no, no.

It's just like,

it is, I mean, I, whenever I drive them,

I don't really rev the piss out of them.

Like, that's what you're supposed to do to get the power out of them,

and I think they have, they're very, like, impressive,

volumetric efficiency or specific output,

but I just, I'm so scared of them that I never rev them out.

So I can't really...

You never rev them out means you rev them high.

Uh, four.

Where do they go to?

I don't know.

I mean, if you're making that kind of power,

the racing ones, if you're made, they were two liters,

and they would make 100-nores power per liter, basically.

So you'd probably have to be doing at least 7,000 RPM.

So, yeah, I don't, uh, those engines scare me,

and they're expensive enough that I don't rev them out,

but with that exhaust, it makes plenty of noise,

and it feels funny, exciting.

It does feel very different from the push-out engine

that a 356 normally has in it.

Which is a beetle engine, let's be very good.

It's a glorified beetle engine with, you know...

Is it really glorified or is it just a...

I mean, eventually they started changing materials

and putting webbers in them,

and, you know, they are...

A different carburetor does not a new engine make.

No, no, but I mean, like the SCs and stuff

would rev reasonably, and they would start sort of like having,

you know, better materials that were more suited to,

that were lighter, basically, that allowed them to rev better.

I think that's probably one of the lighter and stronger.

Okay.

Uh, yeah.

As you can tell, I'm not a...

It's not... I don't have all that much experience

with Porsche flat fours,

but to me, they're just beetles.

Yeah. I mean, the...

The part of the beetle...

We talked about this when we drove that black beetle for the episode,

but the engine feels very similar in the beetle to the 356,

but everything else feels like a Porsche in the 356,

and because I've driven a lot of 356s and not that many beetles,

just hearing and interacting with an engine,

which is the first thing you do when you get in the beetle,

like, I'm just like, I'm in a 356,

and I start doing things that you would do in 356 in the beetles,

like, whoa!

No, you don't.

You're fucking loosely not.

You better know.

And so, the big...

A 356 feels like a Porsche in the chassis and steering department,

and so, you know, it is a Porsche in that sense.

The DNA feels familiar,

but the engine is certainly not the highlight of a 356.

I drove...

So now I have to look this up.

I have to skip to number 2421,

because I spent some time with Rich Greo,

of Greo's garage,

and he just threw me the keys to his 1958

into Mechanica Porsche 356 Speedster,

which was into Mechanica.

Mm-hmm.

That's not a...

It's a...

Well, the only 356 I've ever driven.

That's not a 356.

And he had a six-hander in it.

It's a replica.

And I'm just going to see...

Swaps up with full subframes from a 911 SE,

just with carbs.

Brilliant throttle response,

dirty, dirty engine note.

Quick, fun, and far more stable than I'd expect a 356 to be.

Then again, this isn't a 356.

It's a repop.

I like it.

It's raw and fun and stable at 80 miles an hour,

and quick enough, cool car.

Okay.

So that's the only...

The quote-unquote 356 I've ever driven.

So you've never driven a 356.

Apparently not.

Allegedly not according to you.

And my notes, which says...

I drove a green coupe that had that same swap,

the rear subframe from a 911 with the transmission

and engine too,

and it was really, really great.

This car was fun.

Scary, I don't imagine.

Unless you do the rear suspension from the 911.

Interesting.

Okay.

Next.

306.

Oh, number 36.

We're going old school.

36.

For me, this was August 17th of 2006.

So my third month on the job at Automobile Magazine.

I drove a 2006 Volkswagen GTI 2.0T.

Mark V.

Early in Mark V.

Mark V.

Right?

I think when we gave it Automobile of the Year,

or before we did, I drove it three times.

I love it.

Read full report.

What a nice surprise.

Balanced chassis, fabulous seats, amazing sounding engine

because it was a sound actor in there.

And barely any lag.

And then I...

Then that was a quick...

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20 mile drive and then I drove it again a couple times.

And then the next time it was...

It's official. I'm in love.

It's not just marketing BS.

This is actually a great car to drive.

Speedo is way off.

125 miles an hour indicated as 114 actual.

Got some nasty bottoming out

in the middle of a slide.

And torque steer could be better controlled.

But this thing is a lot of torque, so I can't complain.

Balance. Interesting.

Because that's not a car I find to be balanced.

On the street.

So you have a Mark V race car.

And it definitely...

It might be one of the five top five worst balanced

limit handling cars I've ever driven.

Yeah.

In terms of relentless.

It's really frustrating, immensely frustrating.

But I feel... I think what I probably notice is like,

you know, you lift and turn and it'll tuck in.

And then...

Yeah, as long as you're not at the limit of adhesion.

Right.

Yeah.

For me, 36 was a 1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta spider

Veloce that was red.

I mean, there's like 12 Giulietta spider

Veloce here or Giulietta's of various descriptions here.

So I don't remember this one specifically.

But I did subsequently own another one of these cars.

So that tells you what you needed.

You must have liked it.

I liked it.

I liked them.

They feel much more modern than they are.

Yeah. I was surprised when we drove yours.

Other than the brakes, which are drum and unassisted

and I think attached to a different car.

Because you had to stand the fuck.

They worked.

But the brake effort was considerable.

And there's a lot of dead travel at the top.

The problem with those cars is when everything heats up,

everything expands.

And if you set the free place such that the brake pedal

is at the top by the time that everything's warm,

the brakes are dragging.

And so you have to leave kind of a lot of free play

in those to make them kind of long-ish.

Probably until they warm up.

Yeah.

It's the big drawback of drums.

Disks heat up. They get better.

Or as they expand, I guess they get a little bit better.

Drums get worse and told you die.

Yep.

All right.

239.

Excel is.

Uh oh.

Uh, 2012 BMW M3 Competition Pack Interlogos Blue.

I like those cars a lot.

Compact fix a lot of stuff.

Yeah.

That is a car that I think is going to continue to age beautifully.

It's also the thing I most remember about that,

that's the S65.

Is it S65?

Yeah.

The first time I drove it was,

if you just go on the basis of auditory cues,

then you shift 1,500 RPM before the red line.

Yeah.

It's one of those things where you keep checking the attack

and be like, more?

Really?

Still?

That's the beauty of a nice natural,

naturally aspirated high revving V8.

You know, it was seemed fast at the time,

but now it, you know, not that much torque.

It's just an old-fashioned sports car kind of engine,

the kind of, the likes of which we don't see much of anymore.

So I think that experience is getting better with time

and nice ones are hard to find because it does the same thing

that all M3s do, which is they get cheap,

and people use them up.

And so if you can find a nice one,

especially a blue coupe with cop-pack.

I never loved the styling of the 92.

Oh, I prefer this sedan.

Much, much prefer this sedan.

And I think M3s should always be sedans when available

because if you want a two-door car, you get a Porsche.

Oh, yeah.

I don't disagree with that.

The beauty of a BMW M3 is that it's practical and useful,

and if you remove two doors and make it hard to get it out

of the back seats, then you may as well just have a Porsche instead.

Yeah, that's why the idea of an M3 wagon is just perfection.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, no, that 92 was okay out of the box.

It became brilliant when they did the competition package.

They fixed a lot of stuff.

And then engine, unpopular opinion,

though I love and adore the way it sounds,

stock or modified, no matter I've never heard one sound bad.

I don't love the torque curve.

It is just the perfect plateau of torque for...

You want more of a build?

Yeah, I would love a little bit more of a build.

And that is a bad thing for engineering, you know,

for speed, whatever you want.

Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for area under the curve,

then this is a good solution.

Yeah, but you just want more drama.

I just want a little bit more drama on those cars.

Speaking of drama, my number 29 is a 2007 Chevrolet H.H.R. panel van.

Cute and kind of useful, but also kind of ridiculous.

If there's not going to be a rear seat,

why put a fake folded rear seat in its place,

which just takes up precious cargo room?

And the front doors need to open...

And the front doors need to open to get to the rear,

which isn't convenient, more of a gimmick than anything else.

I think the market would reflect that.

I don't think I see too many H.H.R. panel van.

It's a surprising thing that they actually made.

Yeah, I don't know why they did that.

All right.

Mr. Jake.

15.

He's going low.

Low digits today.

Okay, so this for me is a 2006 Jaguar XJR.

Great.

The aluminum chassis X350.

Oh, six.

Yeah, it would have to be.

Great off idle torque.

Great handling.

Off idle torque.

Meaning, like, just the second...

Oh, it's from my idle.

I thought you meant, as a poet,

you were pulling out that doesn't have much torque at idle,

but otherwise it...

Yes, you have torque.

You turn the air conditioning on the thing,

just fucking stalls.

It just can't even keep itself running.

Which would be...

I now understand.

I understand.

Yeah, torque.

Maybe I should.

These are my notes from...

Yes, yes, yes.

It's an interpretation issue.

Idle torque.

Great handling.

Course ride, though,

and lots of wind and road noise.

Fantastic car to drive,

but cheap display in the center console.

And not refined enough for its segment.

Super quiet windows.

Those little fucking observations.

It's one of those cars that...

You know, we're like Honda's of the day,

or Honda's, I think, still to the team.

Yeah.

You have the motors really loud.

It's like when you have a car with really loud central locking,

it feels like...

Yeah.

Very vintage...

Yeah, very vintage American car.

Or a G-Wagon.

Yes.

That's the best sounding locks.

This is...

Yeah.

16, for me, is a 19...

All I've heard is 15.

It's 15 or 16.

Sorry.

Yeah, don't you dare.

It's trying to cheat.

2023 Acura Integra Type S.

Oh!

This is why we were doing the Ultimate Drag Race episode?

Yes.

I think I barely drove this thing,

but I did take it to the little handling course thing

that they have, the open area,

on the...

It's retotic at willow.

And it was a car.

No, no.

I mean, I just...

I have so few modern car references.

It was a manual car that was fast and is modern,

and that makes it a very select group of carage.

And I didn't really drive it that much.

Okay.

You know, for a point.

Yeah.

We appreciate your honesty.

582.

This is, for me, a 2009 Ford Escape Force Order.

A vast improvement over the 2.3 liter.

This was the 2.5.

But especially in the transmission,

six gears instead of four

make for crazy fast acceleration by comparison,

though that's not saying much.

Where the last four cylinder hits 74 miles an hour

in second gear.

This one is shifting into third at 49.

Oh, wow.

Big day.

Holy shit.

No wonder I said vastly.

It also has crazy long fifth gear for quiet,

fuel-efficient cruising.

The motor is a little out of it,

and the interior is not nearly as nice

as the upper level models.

Only 5900 RPM from a 16-valve four-cylinder.

Strange.

Apparently it was a 5900 RPM monster that did.

Is that the motor that everybody does?

Is the hot swap for NC Miata?

You swapped the bottom end of that.

You want a 2.5.

2.5.

I think that's the same engine.

At that point, 2009, yeah.

That makes sense.

Two and a half liter of Miata.

I mean, but I suspect you'd wanted to rev past 59.

That's why you got to do the bottom end,

but not the top.

Whatever.

Piston speed be damned.

Yeah.

Is it stroked?

I don't know.

Okay.

I wish I knew, but I don't.

I can probably look at it.

I don't wish that I know.

I mean, I've lost interest as soon as I asked the question.

I will say that same day,

I also drove an escape hybrid and an escape limited V6.

And the Ford Sequoia.

Ford Sequoia.

Or Toyota Sequoia 5.7.

Somehow.

That was probably the car that I drove to go drive the new Ford.

Who knows?

2008.

This was 582.

For me, is a 1949 Hudson Super 6 convertible.

And there you have it, the difference between Derek,

Tamhife, and Scott, and me.

Hudson's not a particularly expensive car,

but it is cool.

It is also not a Ford escape.

It's not a Ford escape.

That's true.

Three on the tree, which is kind of fun.

That's a positive five on the six on the four.

Six on the where for the gearboxes.

Yeah, three on the tree.

This is like a dock.

This is like a less hot hornet is basically what it is

as a convertible.

You know, these things have drum brakes,

and they have the step down frame.

We never talk about Hudson's.

Nobody talks about Hudson's anymore.

But Hudson's are, I think, super cool cars.

They were very innovative at the time.

It was sort of one of the small creatures in the big three,

aside from the big three,

before the consolidation really consolidated completely,

which happened in the ensuing two decades.

But the Hudson was aerodynamic and innovative.

The thing that they did that was probably most noteworthy

with those cars, which is a Commodore,

which is the lower trim car,

and then the hornet, which was the hot one,

that then did all the NASCAR stuff.

That is where Doc Hudson was modeled after.

Was the step down floor, basically,

normally with a separate frame car,

you put the floorboards on top of the chassis.

Here, you would step down around and put the floorboards

even with the bottom of the frame,

so that you would sort of make the car be lower.

And these cars really had that sort of factory built-looking

chopped roof look that was popular with Mercs,

49 Mercs, and all that stuff in the early days of hot running.

So these cars were pretty thoughtful,

independent, forward thinking, individualist cars,

until they failed to adapt,

because GM just kind of pulverized everybody with money

by changing everything every year

and the small manufacturers couldn't do that,

and so consumers wouldn't stick with them

because they didn't change as quickly as GM

and any of the big three products.

Anyway, there are cool cars.

I would love to own a Hudson someday.

Not?

Wasn't previously on my shopping list.

Now, could be.

I mean, it doesn't drive that good.

It's an American car from the 40s,

but it's a cool experience.

And it's like this, you know, non-cross flow

in line six with a single carburetor

that it's just this unique vintage American car experience

that's pretty fun.

Not because it is good.

You got it here first.

All right.

843.

843 were still in the low numbers.

843.

Oh!

2010 Jaguar XF-R Supercharged 5-liter.

Hmm.

That's a Range Rover engine.

That is the Range Rover engine in an XF.

Did you say 843?

843.

I didn't protect it.

Oh, come on.

This thing is unnecessarily fast.

And that's a problem.

Why?

It's brilliant dynamically,

so much so that I love it,

even though I know it'll break any second.

Comfortable ride, great stereo,

and a fabulous car to drive.

And it's a pussycat on the track.

It's even gentle in its transition to power oversteer.

What a great car.

Shame about the repairs it'll need.

Let me give you a little asterisk there.

Oh, in that touchscreen,

I'd hit it with a baseball bet

if I had to deal with it every day.

Hey, Jaguar,

we don't need more power.

How about updating that pile of vacuum tubes?

Okay.

So clearly I did not like the touchscreen

because it was very...

If I remember correctly,

it was just low-res and very, very slow to respond.

The reason this would make sense...

This is after you recommended a whole bunch of XFs

to everybody you knew

and then they all got stuck on the side of the road.

The re of my neighbors bought XFs

at my recommendation

and they all repeatedly broke down.

And my favorite part of the story

was the one direct next door neighbor

who was the most enthusiastic...

enthusiastic about his XF

and broke down by far the most out of anyone.

Then finally filed lemon law.

They refused the lemon law.

I called Jaguar corporate.

I tried to help.

It was a screaming match.

He's a lawyer.

He was filing suit against them.

It was turning very bad very quickly.

And they gave him a land rover

to drive home from the dealership

and it fucking stranded him on the way home.

And so he left it on the side of the road with keys in it

and Uber taxied at the time.

Over to...

Oh my God.

Infinity X it was.

I think it was an infinity about an FX.

And I was rips it.

I was so mad.

And after that incident,

Jaguar sat me down in England

on a press drive of the Project 7.

I think it was next to the head of quality control

because they knew I was going to tear him to shreds.

And the best part is everyone at the table

had broken down in one of the cars.

It was like there was a guy who lived in New York

who...

So they purposely put him.

They put everyone.

They brought this guy

and then brought without telling us.

PR people are amazing.

It's like...

It's like shit like this.

Everyone at the table had a lit knee of problems.

And this dumb...

To use the...

So bleep that please.

But he's British so I'm allowed to call him that

and just...

They use the C word.

Like, hi mom.

Don't be a cunt today.

They...

I've got mom.

Not mom.

He was like...

No, these cars are incredibly reliable.

Look at all these metrics.

We've been trucking.

Yes exactly.

We've gone to great measure to it.

This reliability thing is just unearned

and it's just not a fault.

And it's just...

You know, relics of an old day, whatever.

And we just fucking...

I mean, the guy was in tears.

Like he was sweating

and then eventually started to well up with tears.

And we're like, good.

Now go cunt yourself.

You piece of s**t.

Anyway, not that I was angry

or what I would have called him as C word as an American.

843 for me.

2011 March 16th, 1971 Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 Cabriolade Dark Green.

Ooh.

I don't actually remember this one.

You mean you didn't have to call anyone

to see word over that car?

No, I don't really remember

this specific...

3.5 Cabriolade.

I know someone with a dark green cab

whose parents bought it new.

He is now...

Got to be 80 something years old.

The experience ever just goes.

His parents bought a dark green cab

and a sedan.

Same year.

3.5?

They were...

I think they were both 3.5s.

No, maybe the...

sedan was the 6-hounder and whatever it was.

Those cars...

I mean every time you see the price of one transaction,

you're like, that's insane.

How is this $375,000?

Especially because if it were a sedan,

it would be $375 cents.

Dollars.

No, I mean like a great one could be 50 grand

and 6.3s.

You know, I would rather have a 6.3 than a 3.5 Cab.

But I think the reason why 3.5 Cabriolade are so expensive...

They were very expensive when they were new.

They didn't sell that many of them

and it's one of very few options

where if you are...

Like I want a vintage car

that seats 4 and is a convertible,

the only other choice you have is a Rolls-Royce Corniche.

Which is basically...

Visically.

Way that.

Yeah, if you want European car.

So there's very few other cars that do what it does

and they're beautifully made.

It's just that I have...

I would much rather have it as a coupe

and they were available from factory

with 4-speed manuals rare or a 6.3.

If you wanted to look at a 108109

or the 2-door version, which is the 111.

I mean, I would swap a 6.3 layer

and then...

And people have done it.

And I knew all the convertible

and once it will crack itself in half,

it'll be amazing.

I like the coupe because it's pillarless.

Pillarless coupe with sunroof.

That's the way to have that form factor to me.

Okay.

The...

239?

2339 for me.

103.

103?

Oh, 2339.

This will be back in 2019.

I don't know, 2019.

Mazda 3 all-wheel drive sedan.

Inferiorating nav system, just dumb.

Awful infotainment, usability through and through.

Great imaging from this area, but weak base.

No mid-range at all.

Vocals are lost.

Incredibly quiet on the road and feels expensive in NVH and Ride.

Cool wipers with magic vision control.

That's the Mercedes name of the wipers

that would spray on the leading edge from the wiper

on the leading edge of the rubber in both directions.

I don't think the Mazda did both directions.

But instead of having a sprayer, that's great everywhere.

So your vision was obscured very briefly

instead of for the entire duration between

when you start spraying and when the wiper reaches.

And it would also not, it wouldn't spray alcohol-based

cleaner all over your paint and waste all the stuff.

It uses a much smaller amount of fluid.

I like that.

Stereo is not as good in the hatchback.

Backseat on both cars are serious.

It's a compromise.

It feels a class smaller than the Golf.

Much less the Jetta, which is even bigger.

That's the only real flaw in this wonderful little car to drive.

Not a huge amount of grip from the all seasons,

but it works well with what it has.

Understeer on quick corner entry

belies the G-vectoring torque control.

They're so busy talking about, which I barely was able to tell.

Was able to feel in the snow.

So G-vectoring torque control is Mazda's chassis control system

that will start to drag brake on the inside front.

So as you're entering a corner, it'll sort of just like help you bleed

steer off and I guess reduce the understeer.

I've never quite noticed the difference in the dry.

103 is 2003 Aston Martin vanquish.

British racing green.

Do you remember when the vanquish concept,

when it was called the Vantage in 97 or 98,

it came out as a concept.

And it was like this incredibly stark departure

from what Aston Martin had been doing.

It was really like earth shattering,

at least for my psyche at the time when I was 10 or whatever.

But then they put it in production as the vanquish.

And it's like the transitional car between the DB7,

which is like an XJS basically.

And the, what is that platform called, VQ?

VH.

Very VH, vertical horizontal.

VH, yeah.

The new first truly modern Aston, which was the DB9

and then that became the V8 Vantage and then they repackaged it

for a little bit too long and made a bunch of other cars

that were based on it.

But this was the transitional car.

And it was regrettably available only with a single clutch.

And although you could do a factory six-speed retrofit,

which I think is probably make the car quite good.

So, you know, in light of what the DB9 and DBS became,

the vanquish doesn't make too much sense

because the interior wasn't gorgeous like it was in those later cars.

It still feels a little bit cheap and there's some recognizable

Ford and Jaguar stuff.

But it was a 12-cylinder car right after the V12 Vantage came out.

V12 DB7 Vantage came out.

So that was like a really hot car at the time.

And now they're like 50, 60, 70, 80,000 dollars still.

And I think a large part of that's transmission.

If they came with manuals, they'd probably be worth twice as much as they are now.

But yeah, kind of a bummer of a transmission

and the interior is nowhere near as nice as the DB9

when they really made the interior as beautiful

and have, you know, did so for the next 15 years.

Cut.

It's the car that made the DB9 possible, so we'll take it.

Excuse me?

Another?

One on three.

Twenty three.

You just gave one on three.

Twenty three, sixty seven.

Sorry for the delay.

Oh my god.

I wrote an entire book on this one.

And here's why.

So this was a twenty three, sixty seven.

Twenty three, sixty seven.

Sorry for the delay.

Oh my god, I wrote an entire book on this one.

And here's why.

I thought it was a twenty nineteen, Genesis G7D all-wheel drive.

Um I have a whole paragraph on this.

So this was a note that I took on a job for another manufacturer

where occasionally many car manufacturers will bring me out

and um help me, or ask me to help their engineers understand

what we as journalists are looking for in cars.

That, by extension of that, is what the consumers are going to notice.

And so it's a sort of independent third party view of their work.

And so in this case, this was for steering and chassis controls.

This was at the time when electric power steering was really starting to, well, had fully proliferated

through a lot of these cars.

And it was bad times for a lot of car companies.

I don't even know what to start out with because this was my actual report.

But backseat looks considered really small, somebody roll them and say, blah, blah, blah.

I'm going to pass on this because it's so, well, it breaks, feel like shit.

Far more road texture comes to the steering wheel.

I feel like the steering is more precise on the straight forward than the BMW.

There's a BMW there.

But this is suspension as a case of the jitters.

Yeah, this is just really, really in granularity granular stuff about like, you know, steering

feel, brake feel, everything to do with chassis and not what you'd think of as a review.

So, 707 for me was 1974, launch a Stratos HF green.

This is the first one I ever drove.

This was the car that had the spicy motor in it and I was driving it in the mountains

above Monaco and in Monaco itself.

It was like one of the, it was, I mean, that car won the Monte Carlo rally repeatedly.

It was like the best place to drive a Stratos and for the first time ever and with the hot

motor, it was just one of the greatest drives of my life, for sure.

And that was the first time I had ever driven one of those cars.

It really blew my mind.

So it just, the aliveness of the car and the fact that it doesn't feel like it's under

control, but that you somehow don't die was probably my overarching sort of strongest

memory associated with that car.

You loved that so much that I think you set my expectation level really, really high

for that.

The one, the green one was more spicy than the blue one.

It was more race car.

It had a little more race car in it than the blue one.

And the blue one's great.

But it just, I think my expectation level was, this is going to reset my expectation

for anything moving forward and it didn't, I mean, it was great, but it didn't, it didn't

make me, you know, sell a kidney to buy one.

My 707 is a 2008 Ford expedition and I was talking about how well it shifted after

a 20 degree Fahrenheit start, which means that I, I was cold.

This was December 18th, 2008, it meant that I was cold.

I started it, put it in gear and floored it to get heat as quickly as possible.

Wow, it actually shifted really nice.

So we don't have to go into that.

All right.

Maybe one more or two more.

One more two for.

One two for.

Okay.

1778.

This.

Wow.

This is strange.

I, this is, I do, I put 520 miles on a 2000.

And BMW Z3 2.3i.

This was not a test vehicle.

This is a 2.3i.

Which is not really.

It's the facelift.

2.3.

It was a 2.5.

That was the tuned.

Yeah.

So there's a facelift.

Beautiful, beautiful car bought new by a friend of mine in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and

then gradually made its way out here to California, Kentucky and then sold from him to another

one of my friends and I did a bunch of work on it in, in between them.

There is really nothing sporty about this car and that's exactly what I would say about

an Z3.

Great engine notes and ports.

Even the M-Coup.

The M cars are better, but there's just, it's just not a sport.

I mean, the problem is if you've ever driven a 986 or any Porsche, there's just no contest

between Z3 and a Porsche.

Like an M, an M-Coup or even a M Roadster.

I mean, that motor is spicy, especially when they got to S-54's, not that I like the

way it sounded better than the S-52's.

But you're sitting on the back axle, which to me is always an awkward thing to suggest.

Sort of the stressing.

And the car just feels heavy, right?

And it was heavier than far, like 500 pounds heavier than a boxer of the time.

But it was just felt like an E-46, E-36, E-46, sort of sedan, trunk and down into a

Roadster or Coupe body, which meant it was a good car.

And it was nice, but it never, none of the Z3s lived up, and none of their driving experience

lived up to its looks, which is admittedly a very high bar because that car I thought was

great looking.

It promises a certain experience, certainly, aesthetically.

Yeah.

And I say, great engine own gorgeous looks, but it doesn't drive the part.

Just ride quality and this car steady, steady state oversteers, I remember that.

It's a rolling work of art, not a sports car.

It's comfortable, has decent enough steering brakes and such, but communicating with

his engine is like talking through an interpreter.

Sometimes the throttle responds, sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes revs drop on an upshift, sometimes they don't.

It's impossible to be smooth.

Shifter feels nice at least, and the clutch take-up could not possibly assist smoothness

more.

Too bad about the engine computer, meaning the rev hang in whatever.

It's a silky, smooth torque and pulls hard to redline, but definitely feels artificially

held back, which of course it is because this was a detuned 2.5 that they called a 2.3.

I'd like to try this with a chip to fix the throttle response and piss off the engine

a bit more.

I do remember that.

This was their early drive by wire, which this was at 2000, I remember, like early 46s

suffered 2.3s, himping and 2.8s suffered from the same problem, which was that there was

a delay built-in and a non-linearity to their e-gath.

I am 2015 Ford F350 Super Duty Diesel Black, that's a good one for me.

This was a company truck at the first job that I had after college, and we used it for

towing a lot, but I always drove it without anything behind it.

One of the things I most remember was the way that Jason would describe it as I was

at risk of knocking myself out cold from my tits jiggling, from driving that thing on

the 405, because it rode so firmly when you weren't towing anything, because it was just

a heavy duty, it was F350, so I remember that, and then we used it as a, we were on a

video shoot, and we were on our way to Tachopy, California, from the Baker's Field area, which

requires driving up a sort of fairly steep ascending two-lane highway route 58, and you

probably, to Tachopy's at 4,000 feet, and you probably start at below 500 feet, so it's

a big fast sweeping climbing road that's really fun in a fast car, but I was driving

the F350 with a video crew who had not been with me before, and at some point I was making

my way up the hill, and someone was like, do you drive on track much?

And I was like, yes, I have done so, but anyway, I guess I was cutting a line to try and

make the best possible progress I've built in the F350, but yeah, I mean these are the

things that have like 900-something foot pounds of torque, it's, I had, that's one of my

very great guilty pleasure, automotive experiences is big diesel trucks with a lot of torque.

I love how big these will smooth out under boost, so they're kind of clattery,

clattery, and then once they hit that 40-pound boost, it's like, just take off, and they

smooth out, and they sound happiest when they're, you know, closest to working hard.

What number was that?

558.

I'm just going to look, just in case there's something ridiculous, 558 was a Nismo 370Z on

track.

And then we'll do the last one more.

1179.

Here we are in, ooh, ooh, this was ridiculous.

This was on April 8th, 2011, so just about 14 years ago.

I drove a 2012 Mercedes CLS 63 AMG fashion force car.

Oh, what?

So this was a stupid article that I did.

I don't remember, I think we, I don't know if we ever published it.

If I remember, I'll, I will have the photos and everything else.

I don't remember if it ever made it in, but what I did was, let me think about this.

CLS, this was the second gen CLS that came out, and I wound up together with a guy named

Huey, if I remember correctly, who was the designer of the new CLS.

And so we had an opportunity to spend a day with him, and I thought, oh, this is fun.

Let's go, oh, this is what it was, okay, fashion force was Mercedes put fashion force logos

on this car and turned it into a police car and used it at the New York Fashion Week, fashion

week, and they had it there and I don't remember what the hell they did with it.

And they somehow, we talked them into giving me this car.

And what the idea was, I was going to pull people over who had done bad modifications

to their car and give them a ticket.

And then have Huey, I think that's God, I hope that's his name.

This is that long ago.

I don't remember.

Give them a ticket and explain to them what they've done wrong.

And it's like, you know, chrome wheels on your, whatever else.

Yeah.

And that content never made it out.

I feel like it's time.

I don't know if it's time.

I feel like that would be very widely consumed and enjoyed now.

I got a look and I don't, I just can't believe I don't remember this.

But something tells me we didn't publish it for some reason, possibly because we pissed

everyone off.

But either way, EPS, EPS, electric power steering, and the best steering of any Mercedes ever

with the possible exception of the CLK 63 AMG black series.

Nice usable backseat, hard to tell, oh, because it was wrapped.

But much more organic styling than other recent Mercedes-Benzes.

I still like the last one better, but I love the way this drives.

Yeah.

The first CLS is very handsome.

I know that I just drove one recently at 55 supercharged, and that was great to drive

and handsome.

The 20 inch wheels can clump over big bumps.

Seven speed automatic has a few moments with clunks.

Auto stop works well, but I would prefer it on cars with a quieter exhaust.

That's right.

The early auto start, start stop.

You come to a light and then run.

Stupidly, brutally fast sounds every bit as impressive as the old 62, but runs out of

revs 800 RPM sooner.

So this would have been the 5.5 of the 4 liter.

5.5?

I don't know what this turn nose are so well integrated and the car is so fast that I don't

care.

I don't know what.

Oh, turbos.

Still, the turbos are so well integrated and this car is so fast that I don't care.

I love mostly the electronics too.

Don't like that the nav is blocked when moving, but voice recognition works well.

I spent nine hours and 39 minutes in the car to do 236 miles miles and got 15.3 miles

beyond overall.

Mine is, you're going to love this, 2008 Porsche Turbo Cabriolet Tiptronic.

This is just like they've chosen the most expensive thing, but not because they knew

anything about cars or were driving in through this at all.

It was just like some geriatric car and where they're like, I'm going to buy a Porsche

because it's more sporty instead of buying the Mercedes SL or the Lexus SC or the Asin.

It's just, if you buy this Porsche, you're the worst kind of Porsche owner.

I'm not going to disagree with you there.

I did find the, I found the photos.

There's the Mercedes right there.

We'll do some insert on their, yeah, I did find the photos, yeah, the first gen was

more attractive.

And I do, oh, outtakes, oh my god, fashion force violation stuff, there'll be some good

stuff in here.

But I do remember, and I'm sure I will find these photos, there was, oh, there it is.

There was a pink mini with a license plate, Mr. Diva.

And a bedazzled license plate frame.

Where are you Florida?

Or L.A.

L.A.

And did, oh, they're good.

Did have lights that went on.

Say I did put lights on.

They're yellow though.

They're required by law to not be red or blue because you're impersonating law enforcement.

And if I remember correctly, I did give the guy, the Mr. Diva guy a ticket.

Yeah, justifiably so.

Oh, come on.

With a rhinestone license plate frame.

Oh, but hold on what you haven't seen.

The dazzled.

Oh my god.

The pink yellow kitty seat covers.

Yeah, there it is.

Oh, there it is.

Outrageous.

A front.

Yeah.

I wonder, I probably wrote the art, I mean, I will have it, wrote it, it was so offensive

that our editor-in-chief was probably like, that's not happening, we're not doing

that.

But anyway, fun, fun times.

Oh.

Yeah, I definitely did.

I gave a ticket to the Hamam modified G-wagon.

That's awful.

From hell.

Yeah, LA is the place to do that.

Well, this was the whole idea, was that, you know, as a designer, it would have to be really

difficult.

I went to the original Cars and Coffee that time.

Oh, I heard that.

I heard that.

And I see a 116 on the left side.

I love the whole premise started like as a designer, imagine you put all of these, all

of this effort into making a car beautiful, and then somebody ruins it, right?

I mean, some people are on the serious, right, there's a lid for every trash can.

I love that expression.

But they're also, I understand that, but it's got to be difficult to have that happen

to your baby.

I mean, imagine we don't know the fights that they go through, right, but you know how

it's like to get a fucking email written in a company, there's seven of them that's

got an, you know, an opinion and imagine what these guys go through.

And you know, like I've seen a creative vision perverted by a committee in cars with designers

who see their cars in the road and they're like, oh, all they see is what, the compromises

to compromise that they had to admit that they didn't like and so the idea there is

like, you know, you come up with this great looking car and or you fight tooth and nail.

I want these wheels, it has to have this wheels or whatever they've gone through.

Whatever hell they've gone through, only to have somebody ruin it.

I thought that was going to be difficult.

And when I'm talking with Thioi about this, if I remember correctly, he wasn't all that,

like he's like, no, it's just part of the thing.

Yeah.

And to see it out in the wild is gratifying enough and that people care enough for and

see the car as a canvas in some sense to express themselves and their poor taste or whatever.

Well, on that bombshell of absolute disapproval from Derek Tantzgot, we'll wrap

it up.

Okay.

We'll join us for the next episode of the Car Margin Show, number 190, to celebrate the

201.

What are we going to do for 201?

Same car.

Okay.

All right.

See you later.

Ciao.

About this episode

A lively discussion unfolds as Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott share tire updates and engage in random car reviews using a number generator. The duo recounts their experiences with winter tires, including a humorous tale of getting stuck in the snow and the challenges of chain control. They also delve into various car reviews, highlighting unique vehicles like the rare 1999 Mercedes E55 AMG wagon and the 2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo, while debating performance and design aspects. The episode is filled with laughter, automotive insights, and candid opinions on the cars they've driven.

034 Motorsports all season tires brake master cylinder chains dedicated snows four-wheel drift four wheel drive ground clearance Michelin tires rear sway bar

Acura Integra Acura TL Acura ZDX Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Alfa Romeo Spider Aston Martin DB9 Aston Martin V12 Vantage Aston Martin V8 Vantage Aston Martin Vanquish BMW 3 Series BMW 5 Series BMW 6 Series BMW 7 Series BMW M3 BMW Z3 Chevrolet HHR Chevrolet Monte Carlo Chevrolet Spin Chevrolet Tahoe Dodge Viper Ford Escape Ford Expedition Ford F-150 Ford F-350 Honda Civic Hudson Hornet Jaguar XJR Lancia Stratos Land Rover Range Rover Lexus SC Mazda 3 / Axela Mazda MX-5 / Miata Mercedes-Benz CLS Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG Mercedes-Benz SL Nissan 370Z Pontiac G6 Convertible Porsche 356 Porsche 911 Porsche Cayman Porsche Panamera Renault Wind Rolls-Royce Corniche V Tesla Model Y Volkswagen e-Golf Volkswagen Golf Volkswagen Jetta

Original notes

Back by popular demand, it's another Random Number Generator Car Reviews episode, where Jason and Derek pull reviews of cars from their extensive spreadsheet. This, after Jason succeeds in getting his van, Jynah, stuck in the snow. And succeeds, despite there being no snow. === This episode is sponsored by Vyper Industrial — America’s #1 rated shop chair, tool carts, and creepers, proudly made here in the US. Visit vyperindustrial.com and use code CARMUDGEON for $50 off. === Jason takes the van to Tahoe to finally test the Vredestein Wintrac Pros in the snow. He experiences the joys of installing tire chains on the side of a cold, wet freeway while chain-control enforcers allow countless all-season- or even summer tire-equipped SUVs to pass by. The Carmudgeons discuss the importance of tires and the dramatic grip disparity between various tire types in the snow. Then they open up their driving history spreadsheets once again for more random number generator car reviews! Jason heads to Lake Tahoe just after a 4-foot snow storm that somehow never materialized. After trekking another 2,000+ feet up in elevation to Mt Rose, he found some, and a simultaneously serene and serendipitous photoshoot ensued. Caravaning up the mountain alongside the van were Jason’s pals in a VinFast VF8 (which easily beats the van in a roll race) and a Range Rover. Someone has to call AAA – guess who! Jason is incensed by the farcical chain-control restrictions which forced him – driving the FWD van on brand new dedicated winter tires – to pull over and install chains on the slushy roadside, while countless boobs driving AWD SUVs wearing all-seasons or even summer tires were allowed to pass right through (one of which winds up totalled in a Jersey Barrier). The Carmudgeons can’t stress enough the importance of tires. Especially in the wet and snow. We’ll cover stopping distances of various tire types, and recommend excellent videos from both Engineering Explained and Tyre Reviews on YouTube – especially this one measuring stopping distances and acceleration times on snow using a variety of tire types and grip enhancement measures like chains, ladders, snow socks and more: https://youtu.be/W-k_1gz87vM?si=gR3iIm_77Go1vzmZ Following the tire discussion, we dive into yet another Random Number Generator Car Reviews session. The Carmudgeons will recount their drives in the following cars: Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 4Matic Wagon W210 First-gen Porsche Panamera (alongside a 760Li and S63) B8 Audi S4 3.0 “Tupercharged” Acura TL SH-AWD 6-speed (and ZDX) 1957 Porsche Speedster with 4-cam Carrera engine 1958 Porsche 356 Speedster Intermeccanica 2006 Mk5 VW GTI 2.0T 1960 Alfa Giulietta Spider Veloce 2012 E90 BMW M3 Competition Package 2007 Chevy HHR Panel van 2006 Jaguar XJR 2023 Acura Integra Type-S 2009 Ford Escape 4-cyl 1949 Hudson Super 6 Convertible 2010 Jaguar XFR 5.0 Supercharged 1971 Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 Cabriolet 2019 Mazda3 AWD Sedan 2003 Aston Martin Vanquish 2019 Genesis G70 AWD 1974 Lancia Stratos HF 2008 Ford Expedition 2000 BMW Z3 2.3i 2015 Ford F-350 Super Duty Diesel 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet Tiptronic Jason once got to play policeman while driving around a 2012 CLS63 AMG Fashion Force “police” car that Mercedes created for New York Fashion Week, where he tickets egregiously modified cars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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