Supercar Debate: What Makes A Car A Supercar?
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Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people recognize. It has a unique shape and is known for being fast and fun to drive.
Concept
supercar
Supercars are very fast and expensive cars that are built for performance. They are usually made by well-known brands and are designed to be the best in terms of speed and handling.
Concept
hypercar
A hypercar is a type of car that is even faster and more advanced than a supercar. These cars use the latest technology and are made in very limited numbers, making them some of the most expensive cars in the world.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower a car has, the faster it can go and the better it can perform.
Concept
low production
Low production means that only a small number of a certain car are made. This makes the car more special and sought after by collectors.
Car
Nissan GT-R
The Nissan GT-R is a fast sports car that is very popular among car enthusiasts. It is known for its ability to perform well on race tracks and compete with more expensive supercars.
Term
sports car
A sports car is a type of car that is built for speed and fun to drive. They are usually smaller and lighter than regular cars, making them faster and more responsive.
Car
Lamborghini Miura
The Lamborghini Miura is a famous sports car that was one of the first to be called a supercar. It has a powerful engine and a very stylish look.
Car
Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing
The Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing is a classic car famous for its unique doors that open upwards. It was one of the fastest cars of its time and is considered a supercar.
Car
Ferrari F40
The Ferrari F40 is a famous sports car made in the late 1980s. It's known for being very fast and having a unique design, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Car
Lamborghini Diablo
The Lamborghini Diablo is a powerful sports car made in the 1990s and early 2000s. It is famous for its speed and unique look, making it a popular choice among car enthusiasts.
Car
Audi Rs6
The Audi RS6 is a fast and powerful car that looks like a regular sedan but performs like a supercar. It's designed for both comfort and speed.
Car
BMW M5
Car
BMW M4
The BMW M4 is a sporty car that is made for speed and performance. It's a more powerful version of the regular 4 Series.
Car
BMW M1
The BMW M1 is a sports car made by BMW in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It's known for its unique look and fast performance, often considered one of the first supercars.
Car
Audi R8
The Audi R8 is a fast sports car that has been around since 2006. It's famous for its stylish design and powerful performance, making it a favorite among car lovers.
Term
carbon fiber
Carbon fiber is a strong and light material that helps make cars faster by reducing their weight.
Car
Lamborghini Urus
Car
Ferrari California
The Ferrari California is a type of Ferrari that is more comfortable than other models. It's designed for long drives and has a roof that can open up like a convertible.
Car
Ferrari SF90 Stradale
The Ferrari SF90 Stradale is a very fast car that uses both a gas engine and electric motors. This makes it powerful and helps it be more efficient.
Car
Ferrari Purosangue
The Ferrari Purosangue is a new type of Ferrari that is an SUV, which means it's bigger and can carry more people. It still has the speed and luxury that Ferraris are known for.
Company
Stellantis
Stellantis is a big car company that owns many brands, including Ferrari and Jeep. It was created when two car companies, Fiat Chrysler and PSA Group, merged together.
Car
Porsche 918 Spyder
The Porsche 918 is a supercar that uses both a gas engine and electric motors to go really fast while being more environmentally friendly than traditional sports cars.
Car
Porsche 959
Term
GT1
GT1 is a type of racing car and also a name for a Porsche model that was made for racing, not for regular people to buy. It is very fast and light.
Car
Porsche GT3
The Porsche GT3 is a special version of the Porsche 911 that is built for racing and high performance. It is lighter and has better handling than regular models.
Car
Ferrari Testarossa
The Ferrari Testarossa is a famous sports car from the 1980s and 1990s known for its unique look and powerful engine. It's considered a classic supercar.
Brand
Pagani
Pagani is a company that makes very fast and expensive cars. They are famous for their cool designs and powerful engines, which make people say 'wow' when they see them.
Car
Honda Acti van
The Honda Acti van is a small, efficient vehicle from Japan, often used for deliveries or as a work vehicle. It's known for being compact and easy to drive in tight spaces.
Term
halo car
A halo car is a special, high-end car that a car company makes to attract attention and bring people to their dealerships. It's usually very impressive and shows off what the brand can do.
Car
SP3
The Ferrari SP3 is a special supercar made by Ferrari. It's designed to look amazing and perform really well, and only a few of them are made, making it very exclusive.
Car
Ferrari SF90
The Ferrari SF90 is a very powerful sports car that uses both a traditional gasoline engine and electric motors to make it faster and more efficient. It's one of Ferrari's most advanced cars.
Car
Fiat 600S
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
Car
Tesla Model S
Car
Tesla Model
Car
Nissan 240SX
Car
Alfa Romeo 8C
Car
Ferrari 360
Car
Ford V8
Car
Delorean DMC-12
Car
Acura Nsx
Car
BMW E90
Car
Bugatti Veyron
Car
Jaguar XJ220
Car
Mclaren F1
Car
Dodge Vipers
Car
GMC Typhoon
Car
Toyota 2000 Gt
Car
Ford Mustang GTD
Car
Ford Gt
Car
Mclaren 570S
Car
Audi Quattro
Car
Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale
Car
Maserati MC20
Car
Dodge Ram
Car
Ford F150
Car
Shelby Cobra
Car
Aston Martin Valkyrie
Car
Maserati MC12
Car
Maserati Ghibli
LIVE
I was one of the Zoomers.
You are listening to the Analog and Grit podcast.
I'm your host, Victor Troyer.
Who do we have on today's episode?
Hey, what's up, guys?
This is Josh from Analog and Grit.
Hey, guys, it's Nick, the Sudmuffin, and this is JP.
JP?
JP what?
JP, friend of Analog and Grit.
Yeah, one of the original members.
Yeah.
JP, the most stylish individual in San Diego.
You are.
You actually are the most stylish, I would say.
Right?
I mean, who else could pull off that hat?
I don't think that many people could.
Just him.
Just him.
JP, you were on this podcast many moons ago.
Yeah, I was.
Yeah.
Back in the day when I had a different name and a different location.
JP, fun fact, yeah, JP is the reason that Victor and I met.
Right.
Yeah.
That's right.
He says, you got to meet this guy, Vic.
He's so cool.
Yeah, I owe it to him because back in the day when, you know, the other location closed,
he's like, hey, there's a better, newer, more grittier location nearby.
Go check it out.
Go meet Josh.
And yeah, I think that week I went.
There was no courtesy here yet.
It was just an empty space.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, the other really interesting fact is me, JP, and JP's wife, Ali, found this
place.
Yeah.
And so we were, Ali was at a breakfast date with one of her friends and JP and I were
on a motorcycle ride.
We came over here and we saw this warehouse and there's like a little peephole.
We're looking in the little hole at the warehouse like, oh, this could work.
You know, let's give it a try.
And then Ali got done with her breakfast date.
We went to pick her up on the motorcycles and we're like, hey, you want to check
it out?
And she's like, yeah, I'd love to.
And then we're like, yeah, this is it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
That's a fun fact.
I met JP because you had an Alpha Romeo and your dog's name is Alpha.
And I had my Alpha Romeo spied out of cars and coffee and we were just talking
about it.
Yeah.
And I think you were persuading me not to sell it at the time.
I think it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What it was.
Yeah.
You're like, don't sell it.
Why would you sell it?
You know, that's just who I am.
I'm buying sell.
Alpha Vic.
Alpha Vic.
Alpha Vic got a 9-11.
He ain't selling that thing anytime soon.
He might.
We'll see.
We'll talk about it later.
Yeah.
We'll talk about it later.
So this podcast, we're going to talk about a segment of cars that we've never talked
about ever.
All right.
And that is the supercar, right?
So the car that we're going to discuss today, what that even means or what defines
the word supercar.
So we've never talked about it simply because to be honest, I don't have the extent
of or the breadth of knowledge in supercars.
There's so many now.
There was a time where there was only a few, right?
And they were on your poster above your bedroom wall, maybe, right?
So, yeah, now there's so many that they had to create a new segment, right?
Which is now hypercars.
So let's start with supercars first, right?
Maybe we'll segue in a hyper, but for now, what is a supercar?
I would like to know.
I would like to start with what was the original supercar?
Okay.
You know, because we started off with sports cars.
And when did it cross over from sports car to supercar?
What was the original supercar?
For me, the mirror comes to mind first.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
And that's because of style, horsepower, figures, and, you know, production
specs.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So that's JP's point, right?
A supercar is defined as low production.
Low production, how exotic it is, how powerful it has to be, two-seater.
So there's no supercars that are four-seaters.
So we're all in agreement that a GT-R is not a supercar?
GT-R is not a supercar.
Even though it'll be defined supercars on the track.
So it's just a sports car beating a supercar.
Yeah.
So my argument is that if you beat a supercar and you're a production-level sports car,
then you're the reigning champ.
You get the title.
So it's all about numbers on the track?
To me.
Or performance numbers?
Yeah.
If you're a GT-R beating, you know, a new Ferrari or a new Lamborghini, then how can
you not be a supercar?
So you didn't say what you think your first supercar, what do you think the first
supercar was?
Shoot.
Yeah, I haven't even thought about that.
You posed the question.
Yeah.
Yours is the Miura.
Yeah.
Yeah, Miura.
What's yours?
I was saying the Mercedes-Benz Goldwing.
The Goldwing.
Oh, yeah.
The first supercar.
And that's even earlier, right?
Because that's 50s.
That's even earlier, yeah.
Okay.
I would say the F40 for me.
The F40.
So that's later.
Yeah.
That's 80s.
80s.
Yeah.
Miura 70s, right?
Somewhere around there, late 60s maybe.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So as time goes on, there's just more and more, and that applies even to today, because there's
just so many high-powered, I mean, you could even say overpowered cars that against JP
do have four seats, but I feel like you were just saying poster cars.
Early 2000s there was the Carrera GT, there was the Lamborghini Diablo, and the list
was short back then.
And now, the way I look at it at least, I think that a supercar could be the top of the
line model, where I think an Audi RS6, you look at it and you don't think supercar,
but the way it performs makes me feel like it's a supercar, and like a BMW, like the
new M5 competition, for example, like this car has like 650 horsepower in it, but that's
the way I look at it, agree or disagree?
I disagree, I disagree, because the performance, it is limited production compared to a regular
five series, but it's the top of the top, like it's the crème de la crème of BMW
five series.
I look at it the same with the modern like M4 and stuff, because they just are absolute
cheat codes on the track, like they, you know, they're not GT3 RS fast, but I look at that
as a supercar.
So you agree with Josh?
I'm with Josh.
Well, I think we all have different opinions.
I think Nick and I agree that a four-seater can be a supercar, but I disagree with
Nick because I don't agree that Audi's or BMW's, I mean, maybe the M1, I would classify
that as a supercar, maybe the R8 supercar, but no RS, anything or, you know.
You said RS6 Avant, you think is a supercar and the M5 competition?
Just by performance standards, not by the way that it looks, like this is, that's
the way that I look at a supercar is it's performance.
Oh, I got a definition.
My opinion is a supercar has to be from the factory and its primary purpose is for tracking.
Exactly.
What I'm talking about.
Okay.
And an Audi RS6 Avant or whatever, that's, that's not its primary purpose.
Its primary purpose is luxury and like fast, comfy driving.
It's all creature comforts, climate control.
That's why I define the F40 because that thing is not comfortable.
It's all carbon fiber.
It's got Lexon windows, it's all loud and obnoxious, no climate control.
From the factory.
Yeah, from the factory and it's built for the track.
A supercar cannot be practical.
Exactly.
It needs to be uncomfortable.
It needs to be one thing and maybe not one thing.
If it needs to be uncomfortable.
Like the Mura, I mean, I've never done a Mura, but I've heard that after a certain
speed it's wobbly and shit, so maybe it just look good.
Yeah.
It can be fast.
Because of the definition of a supercar, it must be uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable.
Yeah, uncomfortable.
Yeah, because, I mean, a supercar, when you get to a supercar, it's like, okay, I have
a couple of bucks to spend, you know what, whatever.
And you buy something and it's going to do one thing only.
Like an RS6 is like, oh, you know what, I have money, but I don't have money yet
to have a second car.
So I'm going to use these to go drop off the kids to school.
It has to be very uncomfortable.
It changes the.
The supercar, one of the definitions also should be if you have a lady passenger, she definitely
complains about it.
Right.
Like it's either loud or stinky or not enough places to put her supplies or something.
If she gets in it like a new Audi and she's like, wow, this is great.
Like climate great suit heaters.
Not a supercar.
Wait, so we're saying that not every Ferrari is a supercar, not every Lamborghini is
a supercar.
No.
Really?
Do you think the fucking Urus is a supercar?
Oh.
That should be an exception.
That's an exception.
That's the exception.
But like, yeah, just a regular like a Roma, even a California is not a supercar in California
is not a supercar.
So the only supercar Ferrari is like the top of the line one.
Like an S.P.D.
You're really comfortable, though.
Like the Roman, the California, they're very uncomfortable.
They are.
They are.
You're right.
All these new Ferraris are so comfortable.
So those are not supercars anymore.
So that Audi neck, if you rip all the creature converts and climate control and seat heaters
and everything, you can make it a supercar because it's then uncomfortable.
There you go.
Yeah, I disagree with that.
I think Ferraris, Lamborghinis, off the bat, those are always been low production.
You know, they're supercars in my mind because not everyone could afford them.
They're not really practical.
Right?
I mean, yes, they have creature comforts like a Maranello is a supercar.
Yeah.
Like the like a 550.
Yeah, I think all those are GT car.
Well GT.
Yeah, it can be.
You're right.
There's a difference.
Like a GT car and a more like a track focused sports car, right?
And that gives you as a buyer options depending on what you want.
But to me, they're all still supercars because they're Ferraris, right?
Like, yes, Ferrari is trying to get mainstream with like the Sangue, the Puro Sangue and the
Eurus because they need to sell cars to make money.
Like they see the success of the Eurus and like, oh, we need to buy into that.
Even though from day one, they never they always said no hybrids, no electric and
no SUVs.
Yeah.
And here they are making hybrid SUVs.
So they got to sell right was a sell on Sunday and it went on Monday.
So yes, Ferrari.
No, no, no, you got that backwards race on Sunday, sell on Monday, my bad.
But like for our Enzo Ferrari always said from day one, like where I'm a I'm here
to sell cars on the track.
I mean, when race is on the track, but you think if Enzo was here would allow
that?
He wouldn't.
100% like I want something nice, you know, yeah, yeah, because he didn't care about
about he had a soul.
He wanted to be something, dude, not someone else.
Yeah, you're right.
But you need to fund like, think of like Ferrari as a company.
They have to set the Ferrari is technically owned by Stalantis Fiat Group, right?
Remember when they moved to Stalantis?
But then they also have their race RACE, which is their ticker for their stock.
So they have their own like company.
And that's mainly driven by the brand Ferrari, because it's such a like enormous
brand, just merchandise, everything, obviously F1.
But at the end of the day, without those sales of their regular cars, how they're
going to fund the school that he has.
Right?
Yeah, I got a good question.
So when does a 911, a Porsche 911 become a supercar?
Again, with Porsches, you don't think any Porsches aren't supercars, right?
Because the 911 has so many variants, like when does it become a GT, though?
It starts at the turbo.
Yeah.
Carrera GT in my mind.
And what's the other one?
The 958?
What's the one they make?
They made for the track.
The 918.
No, that's a hypercar.
Oh, so wait.
I'm not the 918.
Wait, what newer or older?
Oh, that's older.
Older.
959.
959.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a supercar, the Carrera GT.
And then the other and that car.
Yeah.
That's the 918.
What is that?
Oh, that's a GT.
That's a GT1, I believe.
Well, they didn't make that for production, did they?
Yeah.
It's a modified GT3.
Yeah.
And that was a track car, not a production car.
Yeah.
So wait, 911s are not supercars?
No.
Not in my opinion.
So GT3RS, GT2, not supercar?
What?
Absolutely.
Invited my brain.
The said muffin says 911 Turbo S is a supercar.
GT3, supercar, GT3RS.
Yeah, because you're a performance.
Right.
They can beat supercars on a track.
And they're so uncomfortable.
But when you see the...
Yeah.
Porsche is reliable, dude.
Oh, okay.
Okay, so another thing for JB.
You need to break down at least once a month.
All right.
It can be a supercar because if you have a lady in the passenger seat, she'll like it.
Yeah.
I don't know if I want a supercar.
I'm just kidding.
No, I think I would disagree.
I think if you think back to the original supercars, you know, like what was the
poster that you would see?
Justification for a higher education?
No.
The 930, the widowmaker, was in that lineup.
That was the original Porsche 911 turbocar.
Total supercar.
Yeah, supercar.
From the 80s.
It locked in as a supercar back in the 80s, back in the 70s.
Because 930s, when did those come out?
Like 79 or something?
Yeah.
78.
I don't know.
I disagree.
I think in that line of the Testarosa, the 930 was...
Yeah, but here's the funny thing, that 930 would spank the doors off the
Kuntash.
That's fine.
But it didn't sound as good.
It didn't look as good.
You didn't have it on top of your room.
Next to fucking Sarah Fawcett, dude.
I mean, it was the Testar and the Kuntash.
930 was like in a magazine somewhere.
It was fair as sister.
I think that a Porsche turbo is a supercar.
Yeah.
That's the first 911 that gets that designation in my opinion.
But why do you think it's not a supercar?
Let me see if we align.
Six-cylinder, high production, not exotic enough.
It doesn't sound like a supercar.
It doesn't look like a supercar.
So you wouldn't even consider like a GT3 or GT2 a supercar?
No.
No GT cars?
Have you heard one of those start lately and rip around the track?
Yeah, of course.
And that doesn't sound like a supercar to you?
Yeah, but you see a Testa Rosa and your eyes go straight to the Testa Rosa.
Not to the Porsche that already drove three times with an old five-pattern.
He doesn't like them because they're too common.
They're not unique, yeah.
Everybody's got one.
That's his biggest argument is the production number.
Yeah, it's not exotic.
But then that goes against like my point of like the Roma or any really Ferrari.
They make a lot of those cars, right?
But I think this, I think with Porsche, unless it's a halo car for them,
like a car because you can option, you can get a 911 base and then you can option it out to like a GT3 RS, right?
That is a track monster that will beat other supercars in its period, right?
Not old supercars, obviously.
But to me, it's not necessarily a halo car because you can option it like that.
A halo car is a Carrera GT, right?
Is it the 918?
What's the one that came after that?
Yeah, that's the 918.
So like something like that where like you look at it and you're like, holy shit, what is that?
Yeah.
Right?
It's not like, oh, that's just a 911 with a narrow kit and a lighter suspension.
That's a good definition.
So Vicks definition is if you see a car and you're like, holy shit, what the hell is that even?
It needs to have that effect on you, right?
Yeah.
You know, Cohen is Ziggs, Pagani's, right?
Well, we might be now venturing a hypercar.
Yeah.
But you can stay in like really low production steel with that like basic sold into the TBRs.
Like they don't care.
I don't think they care to make money.
TBR, the English company?
The English company.
Yeah.
And they don't care to make money.
Gran Turismo.
Yeah.
Well, he's from Spain.
So he's probably seen them on the roads.
Oh, no.
But if I see one, I will call you.
So by Victor's definition, then the Honda Acti van that I'm driving as a supercar goes
on the way to work.
Holy shit.
What the hell is that even?
Rearranging.
It's a super van.
Well, a halo car is a car that brings people to the dealership, right?
Yeah.
Like it's sitting there, you know, center on the showroom floor and people come to see
it.
It looks fast just sitting there.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But then they don't buy that car.
They can't afford it.
They buy the next best thing or even a base model.
That's the thing with Ferrari, maybe.
Yeah.
So, I mean, which one is the top of the line right now?
Right now, what's the most expensive Ferrari, Nick?
Is it like a SP3 or the?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, all day long, it's the SP3 cars.
Like those things are like boo boo bucks.
That would be a supercar.
If you go there to see the car and you end up with aroma, they're like, well, you
tried it.
Next best thing.
But how much is aroma?
It's like $300,000 probably starting.
Yeah, exactly.
You don't think that's super car money?
And then it's weird talking about the SP3s and stuff because those are just
super limited.
They're extra special.
But then you can get an SF90 for less than that and have a quote unquote
hypercar that's a hybrid.
Oh, yeah.
Let's talk about hypercar.
What's a hypercar?
Well, I think that's the way he's getting confused.
I think you think the modern day hypercar is the only supercar.
No, no, no.
I think, well, hypercars is weird.
What is it?
When the terms hypercar started, I think it was with the 918 and the La Ferrari.
I think that's when the break of supercar and hypercar came in because they
were already using electric engines to make it unbelievable fast.
Is that hyper?
Is that hybrid?
In my mind, when I saw those cars for the first time and they break, like
you've heard hypercar for the first time, it was just those two.
And those two things they have, they hybrid.
Motors.
So I think it would be the break.
Unbelievably amount of power.
The P1.
Beyond anything.
So I think that's like over the top.
Right.
That was the trifecta was the P1, the 918 Spider and the La Ferrari.
And those were all hybrid.
But then you go into like Koenigsegg territory and Koenigseggs,
like they have a hybrid.
The ESCO is a hybrid, but most of their cars are just gas cars.
They're just gas powered and they are considered hypercars too.
So maybe anything that breaks the 200 mile an hour limit.
Those are supercars.
Well, those are, I mean, Corvette has been breaking it for a while.
Oh, Corvette.
Is that a supercar?
Yeah.
Now it's going to get hot.
Yes.
I know.
I was waiting for this part because it's not about the new ZR1.
The dance.
Yeah.
It's about to get a thousand horsepower.
Yeah.
But go to the Mission Valley.
You can pick whatever color in the line of view.
Like what will take you right now?
With matching new balance.
I don't know about ZR1.
Maybe.
10% interest, $4,000 on payment that you have your fucking supercar on the road.
Does this come with the Jean cargo shorts?
At the new mountains, yeah.
It's mandatory.
I think I agree with you in the sense that now that it's a rear engine,
like flat plane crank, V8, it's got over a thousand horsepower on the ZR1.
Right?
Even the Z06 has close to it, right?
Yeah.
Somewhere around it.
I mean, I think it's in the 600s, but that's an insane number nowadays.
Yeah.
So you don't think any Corvette could ever be.
No.
Because it's kind of the theory with Porsche, right?
It's just spec.
It's a Corvette.
You get a base model and you can spec it out to...
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got you on that.
So that's a tough one because I do think the Corvette is now a supercar.
They're putting supercar numbers.
100%.
But why is it not a supercar?
Because you don't shit your pants when you see one.
But our dads do.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, but come on.
Holy shit.
Son.
We don't because it's an American car that we're familiar with, but do they in Spain?
Would they shit their pants if they saw one?
Well, yeah, but...
See?
Wait a minute and you're from Spain.
Yeah.
But you don't shit your pants when you see one.
Well, he is...
JP is Americanized.
Yeah.
Damn.
He's assimilated.
Yeah.
He's watered down.
But that kind of goes against my argument with Porsche.
I don't think any GT3 RS is a supercar.
But what would a GT3 RS do on a track against a...
Respectfully disagree?
Against a 0-1?
I mean, we don't know yet, I guess.
But all I know is that...
That's a great race.
Dan Berry was keeping up with the GT3s in the 0-6 and the C8 0-6.
And he was getting similar times at Chuck Walla.
And he's got a 0-1 coming.
Exactly.
So he's going to knock off 5 seconds.
But wait, you think a GT3 RS is a supercar but a 0-1...
I think...
No, rewind back to my previous statement.
I think a 911 Turbo is a supercar.
And anything beyond that, which is any GT car,
is automatically get supercar status, in my opinion.
So what about the C8 0-6?
Supercar.
Okay.
So you're strictly performance.
Black or white?
He is performance, yeah.
No, because my argument is if a production level car
beats a currently titled supercar,
it takes the belt, it takes the title,
and it's raining champ,
and it takes the title as supercar.
So, okay.
You solidified Mike Tyson with your fucker.
Busta Douglas?
Logan?
Oh, recently?
Logan.
Jake Paul.
He beat Mike Tyson.
I mean, you cannot see the air quotes here, but...
Is he the ultimate champion now?
No, here's the problem, because you're racing
1979, 930 Porsche,
against like a brand new 0-6.
And so that's a different era.
You can't take an original supercar
from the 80s Mike Tyson
and race it against a modern day,
like shitty Logan Paul Corvette.
Yeah.
That's it.
He just debunked your theory.
I would put Logan Paul most of Camaro,
but okay.
Wait, what about the Tesla, the Model S plan?
No dude.
We're getting off turret.
He said performance.
He said performance.
I mean, that's it.
We should discuss that.
Discuss it, yeah.
Yeah, so I think it's no secret.
I'm pretty anti-electric,
but then you guys brought up the hybrid.
You know, the hybrid supercar is a hybrid hypercar.
I don't know, man.
It just seems like
when you start introducing
hybrid or pure electric,
it's kind of like an unfair advantage.
Well, the hybrid is just like
the little extra cocaine for the model
to go fucking crazy.
I would say
Tesla Model S Plaid
is not because it doesn't perform well.
I mean, I'm far too educated
and I'm not proud about it,
but I follow this guy Misha.
He does YouTube videos on the Nurburgring
and he's done multiple laps
in the Model S Plaid
and there's something that goes wrong
every time he drives the car.
Brakes get too hot
because the car is so heavy.
It'll do power surges
where it'll feel fast.
It'll have more power around certain corners
and it's just very unpredictable
and I feel like for that reason
they tried, good try,
but it's just too heavy at the end of the day
and the electronics are
doing electronic things
and causing problems with that car.
I don't think that thing should
even be in the conversation.
When you see a Tesla,
I don't care which one is it,
you don't go wow.
Plus it's comfortable.
You don't make you feel anything.
You don't start it.
When you see it, you don't get excited.
So it's straight line speed.
On a track, a GT3 RS will demolish it.
So I guess it's fair to say
straight line speed doesn't
apply here.
I think it doesn't apply.
I don't think performance really
applies. I think it's just more exotic.
I think it's just more the wow factor.
You see it
and it's like, even Ferraris
we're talking about, if you see a Corvette in Spain,
if you see a Ferrari
in the middle, people go
holy shit.
Any Ferrari though.
But to me, I would argue
against that, since this is
a friendly debate, it is
100% performance based
because a Ferrari with no performance
is not a Ferrari I care about.
Like a drive in a 328
it's a Ferrari
and I imagine it's an amazing experience
but it's not super performance.
In humor me here,
a car becomes more sexy to us
once the performance is proven.
Of course.
We'll see a car
and we'll be like, oh that's an amazing car
and then we'll see the performance
and the GTR32
prime example, not a great car
but it kind of looks like a
Sylvia or like a 240SX
I have one
and it didn't become legendary
until it put down its track numbers
and then everybody's like, wow that's a sexy
no it's not a fucking sexy car.
Well because you put it down in paper
like here's the map kids, let me
2 plus 2 is these
but those cars are unbelievably sexy
and iconic that have terrible performance.
I got a question for JP
would you say that a Daytona
car?
Oh that's a good one.
Why? Because when people see it
they go whoa and they go holy shit
and it's low production.
Miserable car to drive.
Uncomfortable?
Wedge shape looks.
Now the engine is low production though.
What engine they put it on again?
I don't know like a Ford.
JP is like, mind is melting.
Well I was
going to talk about the other thing though
he said the performance makes something even sexier
but he's going to agree with me
the Alfa Romeo 8C.
Oh that car is sick.
Not a 4C 8C.
Unbelievably
not so good performance.
Is it pretty much double the 4C?
V8.
It's totally different here.
But as a car
it doesn't really work.
So you agree that's a super car?
I don't think it's a super car
it's a GT car
but I think that
he say that
a car becomes sexy when you put the numbers down.
Oh I see.
I mean like sexier
and more
like legendary
when you put down
quality numbers like horsepower
numbers around the track
performance base
I was rebutting your argument
you said it has nothing to do with performance
I rebutted that saying that
a car could be amazing
and then once it puts the numbers down
and starts
breaking records
it locks it into the legend status.
Yeah.
Okay.
What other cars come to mind that
that are a super car?
That might be controversial.
I think I would say Ferrari 360.
Wait I want to go back to
That's a super car.
The Pantera.
It's not a super car. Why?
I don't want to talk about it.
It's got a Ford V8
his argument is the answer.
Well, it is so hard
on these ones because Italian body
low production, exotic looking
sexy dudes. It sounds great.
Sounds great. Looks great. People say
holy shit when they see it. Wife's complaining
no doubt. Wife's complaining in the passenger seat.
Wife hates it.
But maybe the soul
is not there.
The soul. The nameplate.
That thing is all soul.
The Tomasol Pantera. Does it move you
when you hear that word? Oh yeah.
It's an unbelievably sexy car.
But it's soulless.
That's a sports car.
It says it's a sports car.
I got a good example.
That's a good thing though.
The Tomasol Pantera I think is like
Here's my thing.
You know what would have been a super car
if it had that performance
and it performed on the track? The DeLorean.
Oh yeah.
That had all the elements that we can all agree on.
Super car minus the performance
and if it would have had like a twin turbo V8
super car all day long.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Yeah. That's got all the elements.
It was DMC12.
The 12 meant something.
It obviously came
It's like a 12 valve 6 cylinder or something.
Yeah, but everything got dumbed down
It was like promised more than it was able to deliver.
That's a good one.
It had the gullwing doors
or whatever, scissor doors.
It was so unique.
And it's in a movie
which I guess that made it legendary
but the performance obviously didn't.
So that's a good one.
What about the Acura NSX
the first gen? Super car.
Super car.
So we can all agree on that one.
We're all on the same page.
The only reason JP agrees
it's the super car is because Senna picked it.
Yeah.
All right, how about this one?
Senna can't drive a fucking
I don't know.
Anything the guy touches.
How about the most recent
the hybrid Acura NSX
the gen 2?
I'd say super car.
It performs but
the run is
excitement on it.
Because it didn't sell well.
It didn't sell. It's very cool.
Amazing looking car and everything
but it doesn't have that special extract.
It was supposed to be V8 I believe
and then the hybrid V6 right?
You know what's funny about the NSX
is when we see one on the street
we say oh, NSX
or as Nick and I say we go in a kek
but we don't say
holy shit would you look at that
No one ever says that.
On a first gen one?
On any NSX?
I don't know.
I get a little excited.
When I see one on the wild I feel like I get
I'm like oh, I always try to catch up
and throw me dudes.
Different than everything else on the road
even in its time it looked different.
It stand apart, it was raw
It was on the Ferrari
because
there was a Ferrari killer
and it was practical though
in the sense that it was reliable.
It was reliable.
Not practical in cargo capacity
but it was an exotic looking thing
it was low
it makes you go wow.
Plus it had VTEC
Right.
Let's talk about that VTEC
Now the I8
the BMW
It's just like I'm gonna veto that
discussion too.
That might be worse than Tesla.
It had the look
like the DeLorean
but it was everything else crap.
I think if they
they could have combined with Tesla
with like a plaid drivetrain
Yeah, put that design
with a V8 twin turbo
Exactly.
Even if they put
at the time
that car came out I feel like there was
the N55 which is an inline 6
turbo engine like had they just beefed
one of those up and put that in there
I think it's a 4 cylinder in that car
3 cylinder that's right
It's a 3 cylinder turbo hybrid.
It was a halo car too
It came out
to draw people to the dealerships
I think that car did terribly as well
I think that car didn't sell super well
It was bad and horrible driving car
All based on the performance
It was not that slow though
It was horrible
It kind of revolutionized
the hybrid game
It was one of the first to market
to have an electric powertrain
or whatever assisted powertrain
When did that come out? 2013?
Yeah, I think
It was like the end of the E90
generations
2012 I think they started
Design wise the front is very nice
I like it
The back I don't know what the fuck
I agree
Looks like Tron
They pull it out
Let's go back to the hypercar
Supercar comparison
Coen, Ziggs, Pagani
When I said those name brands
Nick was like now you're talking hypercars
Obviously there is another segment now
because there's a lot more available
What defines a hypercar
Is it the price
the exclusivity of it
Is it performance based
on the supercars that can go
200
I think that's more
I mean my mind like I said
is like the hybrid enhancement
But like
the 918 and the LaFerrari
how long ago they came out
I think I want to say
my brain works right
I think that was like the 2014
2014 around that
How much power they have
800
What was it
Like 5600
So they just like bump it up
Like a big chunk
So you're saying it's horsepower figures
It's like, yeah
It's almost a thousand horsepower
I think that with the hazel on the hybrid
2015
They just made them unbelievably fast
2015 only 500 units made
6.3 liter V12
949
That's the LaFerrari
It was a breakthrough though
Before that it was naturally aspirated
or turbo or whatever
600 horsepower or whatever
But let's not forget
Bugatti released the Veyron
in 2006
and that had 1001 horsepower
So they started the
hypercar trend
And I even look at
I think
this will be debated for sure
I think the EB110S is a hypercar
The first hypercar
And I know it doesn't have a thousand horsepower
but it was the first move
where they're like let's throw turbos on this crazy engine
and they put four turbos on a V12
What about the Jaguar
Another hypercar
Was it the XJ
What was that one again
XJ2000
XJ220
The EB110
only had 134 ever built
That's a really
good look
There was one at SEMA
It was at Radwa too
It resembles Diablo
Is there a third one in there
between those two
The Zonda
When did the Zonda come out
That's New York though
with the Jaguar
That was like 90s
early 90s
The EB110 fun fact
is when Bugatti was actually owned by an Italian
There was like a little period there
and that was the only car he made
and then Volkswagen eventually bought it out
I just learned
I didn't know that Bugatti was so old
The first Zonda was debuted in 99
at the Geneva Auto Show
So it was late 90s
probably 2000s
like when it was released
So still later than the EB110
and the Jaguar
What was the McLaren F1
That's true
You're right
Because that was mid 90s
What did that one sell
when we were at Sotheby's
Sotheby's
I want to say
13, 14
I think it was 13 million
I want to say
That car for whatever reason
Obviously there's the seating position
You could fit three and you're sitting in the center
But for whatever reason
that car goes down as one of the first
I think it has that same mirror effect
of
people that grew up in the 90s
It's our mirror
You know what we didn't discuss
what used to define a supercar
It used to take the title
as the fastest car in the world
Remember that
And then
going around the track
and the circuit became a thing
Because it used to just be about top speed
Because there was a time
when the F1 held it for like
two decades
It had the top speed record for a long time
And I think that's what attributes
to its iconic status today
But would that be a hypercar?
It's hard, I don't know
The question was what's the first hypercar
Hypercar
I would say
I would agree with Nick
I don't think they had the title yet
But it was like the introduction
of something way
way crazier than whatever supercar was
You had the Testerosa
and then the Jaguar
The Testerosa looked
outdated
So I think that was the introduction
of something greater
but not yet considered hypercar as it is
So you think the Jag XJ220
is the first hypercar?
Not yet
It was like the introduction
but not yet
Even the hypercars
the 918 and all that
new cars
it's still hard to beat them
So they don't have any Jaguar
you got beat
I would say Veyron
1000 plus horsepower
but it had like two ignitions
I'm with you there
Four turbos
And when you see a Veyron
People that even have money
don't even take them out
You can't just drive that car
just to drive it
Ed Bolian drove his from Vegas
to New York
But he's like an influencer
He's trying to disrupt the game
But he also
gets views because he's taking it out
and it's breaking down
He knows what he's doing
Well there are people who get views
by lighting their supercars on fire
So it's not all about the views
Vipers
Dodge Viper
Supercar
You agree? You think it is a supercar
I don't think so
It's an amazing car
I love vipers
But if you have
a truck with the same engine
a supercar
because the Ram SRT 10
it was a Viper
single cab you could get those
They were putting similar numbers in it
So
That's a super truck
Super truck
Speaking of trucks
there was a one point the GMC cyclone
that was on a front cover
of a magazine next to a Ferrari
So that would essentially say
if a cyclone can beat a Ferrari
I think that was more straight line speed
obviously
Which Ferrari was it?
I think it was a 348 of the era
Yeah
It was either road and track or car and driver
and had the cyclone on that
That was on GMC
GM was doing cool stuff
Well it was a big engine
in a little truck
Let's remember also supercars before they were
It was 348
That's awesome
And then they had an SUV
called a Typhoon
That was Turbo as well
I just loved the Typhoon
We're getting to different
four lining
Second generation
No, SVT lightning
I mean I think anything that's
like you said, it's not a
race car
It's practical
You could put 2x4s in the back
That's what I was saying about Viper
If you have a truck already
with that engine, I don't think it loses
the supercar aspect
So we all agree it's got to be track focused
It's got to be something that you can
It was built for the track
It's not built for
But the first supercars were built for the track
like the Mura
I think so, yeah
They were built for speed
They were built for speed and exclusivity
But they were driving those
on the Nurburgring when that came out
on the old ring
I mean, yeah, of course
You can't use that as a definition
for a supercar
Everything gets driven
Back in the day
That was one of the cars that was the fastest
around the Nurburgring
That's what I'm thinking
So are we in agreement
the only supercar to come out of Japan is the NSX?
I don't know if I agree with
the R32 as a supercar
I agree with you on the performance
and it's a legendary status
But I don't look at it and be like, oh that's a supercar
What about the Toyota 2000 GT?
No, GT
Well, that's true
But it is like a V12
High horsepower, high power
Limited production
Legendary status
Legendary numbers
If you go back to that era
and nothing was able
to compete with it
I don't know
I call it a supercar of that era
I think we all just agree
to disagree on
NSX was the only one we agreed on
Well, there was a few we all agreed on
like the Italian cars
and some German cars
But there's a lot we disagree on
There's like more that we disagree on
than agree on
My take is if it's like an exotic brand
but you
Ferrari makes GT cars
I think like
an FF or a GTC Lusso
has a backseat
but I see that's got a V12 in it
that's a supercar
but it's a GT car, it's built for comfort
it's practical
so I can't say black or white
if it's practical and it's comfortable
it's not a supercar
like then the GTC Lusso
would contradict that
Well, we're a house divided too
because Nick and I are under the impression that
Porsche 911s turbos
and above are supercars
and you guys disagree
But you don't see one in Manchester Fane
I do
We do a lot of WoWs over there
at Rancho Santa Fe
The problem with the 911s
is it's like everyone's got one
That doesn't make it
not a supercar
It loses the
prestige
People aren't excited about 911s anymore
It's like telling someone you're a real estate agent
and you're like yeah, so is everyone else in the room
Yeah, that's true
I think the Corvette
is the one because it's like
it's a track monster
it's revolutionized
it's like an affordable car
that can go over 200 miles per hour
but it's not a supercar
it's a rear engine
or a mid-engine
there's so many things about the new
ZR1 and even the Z06
that would debunk some of the things that I say
because you can spec
it looks like a base
you can find one for 60 grand
so anything that you can find
for 60 grand, for example
a 911, what's like a base 911 today
around 110
exactly
but a GT3RS is
350 or what?
somewhere around there
if you can even buy one
you have to be allowed to buy one
there's so many like that
we can't even touch Ford
like the GTs
those are supercars
it's a supercar
but now you have the Mustang GTD
the GTD
smokes everything
it's a Mustang
so what's your opinion?
it's a supercar
it's a super sports car
but you'll say
but a ZR1 is not a supercar
but that Mustang
he's sticking to his guns
I'm saying that he smokes everything on the road
but he's not a supercar
it's a Mustang
but he makes you go holy shit
but he's not a supercar
anything Mustang, anything is not a supercar
ever
I think it has to be bespoke
like a Ford GT is bespoke
it has to be more tailored
but look at the 2005 version
when they brought it back
that car has like Ford
Escort like turn signals in it
it has like little
trim pieces from other cars
that's part been shared
but also the envelope with headlights from an Eson
and they asked Martin
with pieces of Volvo in it
I got something good
that we will all agree on
I'm almost certain
I think all McLarens
are supercars
I agree with you
I don't know if he does
well
you have the Mercedes
the McLaren
is that a supercar
that's a supercar
that's absolutely a supercar
that's a hard one
it's so unique dude
people see it and they say holy shit
it looks like the other brands
but
I don't know
how they drive, how they perform
if you get your phone out to take a picture
then that's a supercar
I mean I rode in the 570S
thanks to you're the man
and I mean
no no no but I'm talking about the Mercedes
how it drives
it's a V8 in there
supercharged V8
but then you have the SL65 with a V12
I think they're heavy
the SLR McLaren is a
pretty heavy car
and they're higher, they're more like peak peak
and I think they haul ass
but I don't know about
performance on the track
in an SLR McLaren
but
it's heavy, heavy means
heavy usually means
not the best
and even like displacement isn't necessarily
going to give you that
moniker because like an SL65
what is that
a 6 point
something leader
12 cylinder
in a small little compact car
I think it gets like 500 plus horsepower stock
but that's not a supercar
but the SLR McLaren
would have V8 is
and they came out somewhere
around the same time
yeah
what's the closest that Subaru ever came
the SVX
shout out Bucky
Subaru
Supercar
the rally one
22B
cause that was a monster in a different type of track
rally supercars
rally car would be a supercar
I think so
wedged shaped
absolute supercar
yeah but then again
there was cars that beat it eventually
the Quattro
supercar
but I think supercar really means
that you have to be on the top all the time
there's going to be
there's going to be other cars
that are going to beat them
you can only stay on top for
the 360
I mean the F1
the McLaren was one
you set the bar
for having the number one fastest car
like fastest around the track or whatever
and you're only going to hold that
I mean the Nurburgring is like
the track to beat
so you're like oh who's the current fastest on the Nurburgring
and you can hold that title for maybe six months
before a new model comes out and you're like okay
that's it
but then that's why Porsche
technically a supercar
Porsche did that with no rules with the 919
on the Nurburgring
where the fastest car around the Nurburgring
was like six minutes and 30 seconds
and then they just built that car
and it took a whole minute off
of their lap
but I guess that doesn't count because
it's not a production car
they built two of them
yeah
that's tough to say
it's too bespoke
like the Alfa Romeo the 33 Stradale
they came out with it
and only made 33 of them
that would be for a supercar
but it's a very small production
you gotta be able to buy it
it's a normal person
it has the MC20 Maserati engine
which I think dumps it down
to me that looks
like a hypercar
the new Alfa Romeo
the first one
that was a track focused car
and they made some for production
is that the car that we saw at Monterey
when we were at Laguna Seca
was that that Alfa?
that was like the Viper version
it was like only a few were made
the 33 Stradale
it came out last
maybe two years ago now
but it's actually on the roads
a Viper can't be a supercar
because the truck shares the same motor
yeah
I disagree
I think that Viper
the non-truck Viper is totally
they're supercars
they're so unique looking
okay let me debunk that
that argument
didn't the 4GT
or the
share that motor
with the different
but you agree that a 4GT
is a supercar
well the first 4GT
was a motor build for that car
or they took another motor
I don't remember
so they did use
Mustang motors I want to say
or they used some V8
and then eventually
down the line they made
a very specific big block
but they used the block from Mustang
and they modified the share out of it
I think they made one from scratch
but not first off when the GT
started getting produced back in the day
I think with the RAM and the Viper
thing
he was married to a truck
I see
I think I know
JD's point
he sticked into his guns
because any car you mentioned to him that had a production run
meaning like it had multiple models
of that same nameplate
not a supercar
I get that
because it says SRT10
on the truck
yeah it's a hard topic though
you go to Corvette and
which one you want we have it here
if not I will bring you from Santti
it's there it's available
supercar is
I have plenty of money
so are we
do we call the new 4GT
the new model not the
a million percent
not the original one
the new one is a supercar
so check this out
the modern 4GT shares its engine
F150
it's an EcoBoost
it can't be a supercar
but is it the same
it's modified for that car
yeah it's tuned
I mean that car won Le Mans in 2017
that's the thing
we're all in agreement
the Dodge Viper is a supercar
or it's a truck
there you go
sorry Steve
the Viper is tough
because I don't know
maybe like an ACR
like the first Viper
first generation
no door locks
no roof nothing
no nannies
supercar
because it just put a statement
like look at this
but that's like a cobra then you think a cobra is a supercar
because that's what it's really based on
like a cobra
Shelby
and the GT
and the GT makes the cobra look like a sports car
you know
see
there's an argument
against anything
when the Viper came out
I don't care who you were
you would spaz out
Viper R
it was a poster
yeah 100%
like Steve's generation
gen 2 poster car
the first one came out it was like
holy shit
it was a Viper
so you would say
you probably lost your
affinity for Viper's
oh no I love Viper's
100% and the Ram is one of my favorite trucks
hmm
let me ask you this
you think the first gen RT10
with no roof
pretty much you zip up the windows
that you think is a supercar
like for example
the Spider, the convertible that Steve has
the Mamba edition
that's not a supercar because it doesn't have anything that's unique about it
I think so
I don't want to
he doesn't care
I love
I love Viper's
but I don't think that's already a supercar
this is not that
because the RT10s were significantly less
than like a GT
which is second gen
like the one he has
grey with the red stripes
technically that doesn't have anything bespoke about it
yeah
but I think the first one
it was a supercar and then it was like watered down
not really watered down
but made it better
you burned your leg when you got out of it
all that shit is supercar worthy
like yeah it's not useful
you cannot even lock the doors
what kind of engineering is that
thank you
supercar? yes or no
no he thinks GT
I think GT too
I'm trying to think of one that would be a supercar
they did make some V12s
they're all so similar
what is the bolt tail or the speed tail
something like that
the Valkyrie
the Valkyrie is definitely
that's a hypercar
they don't have any supercars
GT cars and a hypercar
which I love
I think that car is sick
all the girls that James Bond was driving with
they were all very comfortable
that's true
sometimes too comfortable
Maserati
supercar enough
the MC20
is the only one that really questions
but it's
I feel like that's like a 4C
what is the one that came out with the Enso
the MC12
that's absolutely a supercar
period
those are the two halo cars
of that line up
you don't think a Ghibli is a supercar
it's a freaking Chrysler
it depends
to me
my argument has always been
it has to be that halo car
that brings you to the dealership
you rarely see him
so that's my argument
I'm with you on that
the 4C
was like the halo car
but I don't think it's a supercar at all
which is the same argument that Vic has
if it brings you to the dealer
stops in your tracks, makes you take a picture
makes you say wow or holy moly
the 4C though
came out after the 8C
the 8C was the first car
we actually got 8Cs in the US
we did
only a few
right before the 4C came
2010s
or maybe late 2000s
I don't know anyone with them
I've seen one
it was one in Mexico
never here
in Mexico City
in Queretaro
so smaller
that was a cool spot
so 4C
I went like fuck
what the hell is it
I'll bet
the 4C
so you didn't feel like you were driving a supercar
carbon tub
uncomfortable noisy
not supercar
that's the definition of a supercar
that's sports cars
I'm sure Allie was very uncomfortable in it
she hated when we took it out
no storage
no storage
so why not
you go for the displacement too
2L
1.7
what's the minimum
engine size
in my opinion it should be
8
that's contrary
what you said earlier
reference send us favorite car
not an 8C
in my opinion it's 8 but there's a few
like the GT and the
few exceptions
that break the
couple exceptions
great debate
great topic
I want to wrap up with
the Porsche 996.2
so
earlier me and JP were talking about it
and he was saying he thinks
why don't you actually share what you think about the DATU
oh that is probably
on the road right now
water cooled
911 is the prettiest one
in my opinion
what do you think about the DATU
hahahaha
make let's not
talk about it
I think the 996 in general not just the DATU
because we're talking specifically about DATU
but the 996 is the prettiest 911
right on the road
he got so over
the market just flooded with trends
it became a trend
it was an overnight sensation
it was like
whatever it's another 911
you go to ranchers and defense
and everybody hated the 996
it was the ugly DATU
like the 996 whatever
nobody wanted it now
the few ones that you see on the road is like
but that's for a different reason so one thing
you need to understand about our friend JP
is he likes things that are different
as do I
but just because it's unique and different
doesn't make it pretty
I think it's prettier than the other ones though
you think it's pretty because not that many people have it
you want to be different
and
design wise
it's very similar to 997
all the stuff that we're saying
but the size
everything it's nice
so the reason there's a different theory
and this is like a whole new podcast for a different day
but the reason that 996
is they're becoming popular
is because in the beginning nobody wanted them
because like you said is the ugly DATU
and so now you can afford it
and so everybody's getting them
so the supply and demand tells us that
now that everybody's snapping them up
because they were cheap now they're expensive
because everyone has them
but the beauty about that one though
they were so cheap
and so
not wanted that most of the 996
they're crap
they're crap
so when you see a good 996
that's cool
they just became nothing
and now it's like okay I'm here
and the design really mature
we're talking about the 992 because of the headlights
it really like mature
because you can't argue that DATU headlights
are runny egg anymore
so maybe you can say the interior
is still not as nice but
when you look at it you're like the yellow
GT3 out there right
we look at that and we're like holy shit
that's a beautiful car
why does no one like
these
so when you see one
like no one brought these out
because they're almost like embarrassed to bring them out
or they traded them in
so you saw all the 997s
and so on with round headlights
now when you don't see round headlights
you're like oh shit that's actually pretty cool
that Porsche made cars like that
it's different
and it's like what JP said
they were unwanted
therefore they were cheap
therefore people with
a little bit of money to spend
so they didn't care for them
that's what makes it classic
I got this thing for cheap
I'm just going to drive it in the ground
I'm not going to maintain it
whatever like a newer one or a GT car
and so then they fell apart
and then people threw them wet
and now they're hard to find
the same shit with like
super high production cars like the Golf
Mark II everywhere in its time
cheap car I've run down
nothing left and the few ones left
it's hard to find
it's
expensive, there's demand
there's demand
the newest 996s are 20 years old now
so think about it
there's some out there that are over 25 years old
that are not going to be
they weren't well kept
because it wasn't worth it
to keep it well kept
and the design is maturing well
and that's important
it's not like the I8 that we were talking about
it's how it looks like
it's how they
yours is much more timeless
and like even the interiors get knocked
I think mainly because of the box
they're sharing the same interior
and that's an entry level car
but when you think about
look at the 993 that's here
the interior on that car
it's super simple, it's basic
which is what people want
they want an analog feel
and obviously it's air cooled
it's not like it has a screen
it has the little mini
climate control screen, but other than that
there's nothing about it that's going to be like
wow this is disgusting
I can't even look at it, I need to change this
it's basic
you would expect more from a more contemporary 911
but it came
from a time when the tech was still basic
it was the early 2000s, late 90s
we don't have traction control in our cars
that's awesome
they're gravitating toward
simple interiors
nobody wants to
like you said a screen on their dash
well even the freaking the new Cayans
they were all touch screen
in the center
and now they have clicks
because who wants
fingerprints everywhere
there's no feeling
I think your 996 is cable driven
it is, everything is
which I think
2001 later
it went to like a drive by wire
yeah I'm happy to
have everything cable driven
all mechanical, the more mechanical the better
for me at least
I'm sorry, I'm just learning
it's not cable and grit
read your hat
cables and grit
cables and grit
yeah, so alright
well I just wanted to bring that up simply because
we were talking about it and
I am considering eventually selling the 996
and
the 996.2 is like
it's like when I bought my first Montero
I wanted the generation
I learned, okay wait this isn't the off road version
this doesn't have a solid rear axle
so I want the one with the solid rear axle
which was the 90
the ones that came in the mid to late 90s
so I bought that one
now I'm thinking, okay if I'm going to get another 911
I'd stay 996 but I'll go
.2
it's kind of like 997s
.2 for the manual
or the PDK
because they didn't have PDK back then
with the .1997
so everyone obviously
got the manual because you were saying the automatics
were shit, right?
yeah, they're a slush box
alright, well appreciate it JP
welcome back on the show
maybe we'll do more now
so Josh, Nick
we'll see you guys around on the analog
and grit podcast
have fun. Thanks for having us Vic
About this episode
A lively debate unfolds as the hosts and guests of Analog and Grit Podcast dive into what truly defines a supercar. With a mix of personal anecdotes and automotive history, they discuss iconic models like the Lamborghini Miura, Ferrari F40, and Porsche 911, weighing in on performance, production numbers, and the emotional impact of these vehicles. The conversation touches on the evolution of supercars into hypercars, the role of comfort and practicality, and the significance of brand prestige. Expect spirited disagreements and a wealth of automotive knowledge shared among passionate enthusiasts.
Acura NSX
Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione
Audi Quattro
Audi R8
Audi RS6 Avant
BMW 3 Series
BMW M1 (E26)
BMW M4
BMW M5
Bugatti Veyron
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Corvette
Delorean DMC-12
Dodge Ram
Dodge Viper
Ferrari 360
Ferrari California
Ferrari F40
Ferrari LaFerrari
Ferrari Purosangue
Ferrari SF90
Ferrari Testarossa
Fiat 600
Ford F-150
Ford GT
Ford Mustang GTD
Ford SVT Lightning
Ford V8 Sedan
GMC Typhoon
Jaguar XJ220
Lamborghini Countach
Lamborghini Diablo
Lamborghini Miura
Lamborghini Urus
Maserati Ghibli
Maserati MC12
Maserati MC20
McLaren 570S
McLaren F1
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupe Gullwing (W198)
Nissan 240SX
Nissan GT-R
Porsche 911
Porsche 918 Spyder
Porsche 959
Porsche Carrera GT
Shelby Cobra
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model Y
Toyota 2000GT
Original notes
Owner of Analog & Grit Josh (@Analogandgrit), Nick the Sudmuffin (@sudmuffinautodetail) and JP (@thej.posada) join our debate as we attempt to define a Supercar. Is a Chevy Corvette C8 or a Porsche 911 Turbo a Supercar? What characteristics must a car have to be considered a Supercar ? Is the Porsche 996.2 the best looking 911 ? One of us seems to think so.
Analog and Grit Podcast
Victor Troia
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65:32