Red Bull is a drinks brand, but it also shows up in racing. Here they’re talking about Red Bull-sponsored race cars and the special look those cars have.
“iRacing” is a computer racing game/simulator that sim racers use to practice. It updates tracks and driving physics so it can feel closer to real racing than older sims.
The “GM Tech Center” is a General Motors engineering facility. The host is saying their internal simulator doesn’t keep up as well as iRacing does for track updates.
A “90 degree corner” is basically a very sharp turn, like turning a corner at a right angle. These usually require more braking and more precise control than gentle curves.
A “tire pack” is a stack of tires used as a crash barrier along the track. It’s there to make impacts less dangerous, and it can sit right where drivers might clip the edge of the corner.
iRacing is a video game/simulator where people practice driving race tracks. The point here is that it can help you learn the track, but real racing can still be different once you’re actually there.
A road course is a type of race track with lots of corners and usually a more complex layout than a simple oval. The host is saying cautions can take longer on these tracks, which changes the race flow.
Stage breaks are NASCAR’s scheduled segments within a race, where the event is split into parts and points are awarded at the end of each stage. The host notes that cautions coming out near the end of a stage can be especially disruptive because the field may spend a long time running under caution on road courses.
A caution is when the race slows down because something happened on the track—like a crash or debris. Drivers don’t race at full speed for a while, and teams have to adjust their strategy.
A brake rotor is the metal disc your brake pads squeeze to slow the car down. If it breaks badly, it can throw debris onto the track and create hazards for everyone else.
The pits are where race teams pull in to service the car. Under caution, when the pits are opened can strongly affect strategy and who ends up in front.
Here, protocol means the official rules and procedures NASCAR uses during cautions—like how they handle timing and when teams can pit. If they change it, the race can move along better.
A teammate is another driver on the same team. Even though you’re on the same team, you can still race hard and sometimes end up fighting for the same spot.
Downforce is the “pushing down” effect that helps a race car stick to the track. A low downforce package is a setup that reduces that effect so the car can go faster on straights, but it can make the car feel less planted in corners.
“Front down” means the front of the car is getting more grip from aerodynamics than the rear. More front grip can help the car turn in, but if it’s too much, the car may not rotate as well in corners.
Concept
reset button
“Reset button” here means the team abandoned the current direction and restarted the development process from a baseline. In motorsports engineering, that often implies returning to earlier setup targets/data and then re-testing changes systematically.
Nose weight means the setup is trying to put more “load” on the front of the car. That can make the car feel like it turns in better, especially when you’re braking or entering a corner.
Term
cross
“Cross” is a shorthand for a balance adjustment in the car’s setup. The goal is to make the car’s grip and handling feel right by distributing weight and forces the way the team wants.
Toyota is the car brand being used as the comparison point. The speaker is saying Toyota has generally been ahead for a long time in this racing context.
Place
Kansas and Vegas
They’re talking about two different race tracks—one in Kansas and one in Las Vegas. These tracks are popular places where cars race and where setup and driving style matter a lot.
“Chicago” here likely refers to a Chicago-area racing venue used by the series they’re discussing (commonly a street course or a nearby track depending on the schedule). The key point is that the speaker is comparing recent results and practice for that event.
A “bump” is a rough spot or rise in the track that makes the car bounce or get unsettled. If it’s near a corner, it can make the car harder to turn or harder to slow down smoothly.
“Re-sealed” means the track surface was repaired or redone. That can change how tires grip and how the car feels over bumps, so drivers may adjust their driving.
“Wide open” means the driver is pressing the gas pedal all the way down. In a race, that’s the fastest way to go, but it can burn more fuel than the team wants.
Throttle is how much you’re asking the engine for power by how far you press the gas. Saying “60% throttle” means the driver isn’t going flat-out the whole time—just fast enough to manage the race.
Daytona is a famous race where cars often run close together. The host is using it as an example of how drivers can manage speed (like using less than full throttle) to fit the race plan.
Strategy is the team’s game plan for the race. It includes how hard to drive and how to manage fuel so you can still finish—so if the driver goes harder than planned, it can get risky.
Fuel is what powers the car, and in races you can’t just burn it without limits. Teams plan how much you can use, so “short on fuel” means you might run out unless you manage the pace.
The Indy 500 is a famous big race in the U.S. that lasts long enough that fuel and timing matter a lot. The story is using it as an example of a driver ignoring the team’s plan.
Place
Talladega Daytona
Talladega is another big NASCAR oval track. It’s similar to Daytona in that the turns are banked and fast, so handling can feel different depending on where you are on the track.
“Loose” means the car doesn’t feel planted—it can slide or rotate more than you expect. Drivers notice it most when they’re turning through the corner.
“Tight” usually means the car doesn’t want to turn and feels like it’s pushing straight. “Plowing” is the driver’s way of saying it’s sliding forward instead of turning smoothly.
“Old tires” are tires that have been used for a while. As they wear out, they don’t grip the road the same way, so the car can feel different and lap times can change.
A “restart” is when the race starts again after a caution. It’s a tough moment because everyone is bunched up and you have to get going quickly without losing traction.
In racing, momentum means keeping the car rolling smoothly instead of slowing down too much. If you don’t lose speed in turns, you can accelerate better out of them.
Concept
adapt
“Adapt” means learning how to drive a new version of the car because it handles differently. Even good drivers can struggle until they figure out the new grip and balance.
A low profile tire has less “rubber sidewall” between the wheel and the road. That usually makes the car feel more responsive in turns, but it can also feel harsher and behave differently on rough pavement.
Term
pan
“Pan” here sounds like a part under the car that affects how air flows underneath. If that airflow changes, the car can feel different in corners, so drivers have to adjust their driving style.
They’re talking about the Charlotte race track, which is a big NASCAR venue. Weather and track conditions there can strongly affect how the car feels and how confident you feel early on.
Pit road is the special lane in a race track where teams pull in to work on the car. Drivers have to go slower there because the crew is right next to the cars.
When a car turns, the tires push sideways to make it follow the curve. If you turn in harder than the tires can handle, the car can lose grip and spin out.
“Sliding” means the tires aren’t gripping the road the way they should, so the car starts to drift or rotate. It’s a key sign the car is losing traction and the driver has to react.
“Xfinity” is NASCAR’s second-level racing series. The race cars are similar to Cup cars, but they handle a bit differently, so drivers may feel slides in a different way.
Here, “truck” means the NASCAR race trucks category. They’re built differently than the Cup cars, so when they start to get loose, it can feel harder to tell exactly what’s happening.
“Yaw” is the car turning left or right around its center, like the nose swinging. When a car is getting loose, yaw is one of the motions drivers feel and try to understand.
“Rear end flexing” means the back of the race car is moving because the suspension/chassis is flexing under load. It can look or feel similar to sliding, but it’s not the same as the tires losing grip.
A “stock car” is a race car used in NASCAR that’s based on the idea of regular cars, but it’s built for racing. Saying they didn’t race one until 2022 means they hadn’t competed in that NASCAR-style category before then.
“Rear grip” means how much traction the back tires have. If the rear has good grip, the car feels more stable and easier to control when you’re turning or pushing hard.
“Turn-in” is when you first turn the steering wheel to start a corner. “Front turn-in” means the front tires are helping the car turn in early and predictably.
In racing feedback, “locked down” means the car feels settled and consistent—typically that the tires are working in a predictable grip range. Drivers use it to describe confidence that the car won’t suddenly change behavior under load.
“Cup car” means the race car used in NASCAR’s top series. The host is saying it’s harder to drive because you have less margin for error than in the Xfinity series.
Here, “blowouts” sounds like the tires losing grip when you’re trapped behind another car. The airflow around the car gets messy, so the tires overwork and start to feel worse.
An “aero spot” is where you are sitting in the airflow behind or next to another car. Some spots make the car feel planted, and other spots make it feel loose or unpredictable.
The “danger zone” is a bad place to be relative to another car. The air turbulence can make your car lose grip and start acting unstable, especially when you’re turning.
“Offset” means you’re not following perfectly in line behind the other car—you’re a little to the side. That can mess with the airflow over your car and make it harder to stay stable.
“Spinning” here means the car starts rotating and you lose control of where it’s pointing. The speaker suggests it can happen suddenly when the airflow around the car changes while you’re in traffic.
Term
run off the corner
It’s the speed you build right after you come out of a turn. The goal is to leave the corner fast so you have momentum for the next part of the track.
Cars don’t always put the same amount of weight on each tire. When the left rear gets more (or less) load, the car handles differently and can start turning or sliding in a new way.
A spoiler is a part on the back of the car that changes how air flows over it. That airflow can push the car down onto the track so the tires can grip better.
A “blowout moment” is when the car suddenly loses grip and becomes hard to control. It can feel like the car snaps or slides unexpectedly, which is why it’s described as scary.
“Driving in your mirror” means you’re right behind the other car so they can see you clearly. It puts pressure on them and can make it harder for them to drive their preferred line.
“Clean air” means the air around your car isn’t being messed up by another car. When you’re in clean air, the car usually feels more stable and predictable.
“Chevy” means Chevrolet. In this context, they’re talking about a newer Chevrolet race car body that changes how the car handles when you’re running close to other cars.
Term
late apex cut
A late apex means you aim to hit the inside of the turn later than normal. If you do it when the car doesn’t have enough grip, you can miss the turn and end up going wide.
“Plow wide” describes a car that understeers—its front end loses grip and the car won’t rotate into the corner. Instead of following the intended line, it pushes outward toward the track edge.
They’re talking about racing at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It’s a famous track where drivers often deal with tire heat and traffic, which can lead to similar mistakes.
Heat soak means things on the car get really hot and stay hot. In racing, that can make the tires lose grip after a few laps, so the car feels less predictable.
O’Reilly is the sponsor name attached to a racing series. The point is that racing in that series teaches certain skills, and the hosts are debating whether that experience carries over to the next race.
“Next gen” means the newer generation of race cars. Even if you’re a great racer, you may still have to adjust because the new cars can handle and feel different—especially the tires and how the car reacts.
“Tire feel” is what the driver senses about how much grip the tires have. If the tires feel different, the car may be harder (or easier) to drive fast and make passes.
Racecraft is how good a driver is at racing, not just driving fast. It’s the judgment calls—when to pass, how to handle other cars, and how to keep the car working well as the race goes on.
The “cup series” is NASCAR’s highest level. The point here is that it’s harder, so a rookie who hasn’t built experience in a lower series might struggle and get written off too quickly.
“Longer runway” means the driver gets more time to figure things out without being judged immediately. The idea is that past success helps teams give rookies a little more patience while they adjust.
LIVE
The following is a production of Dirty Moe Media.
You're Dale Jr.
Should I say it?
It's Dale Jr.
Fockets.
I got to say it.
Hey, everybody.
It's Dale Jr.
Back again for another episode of the Dale Jr.
Download, and we got two guests coming on the show today.
Conor Zillett, Shane Van Gisburgen, they're going to come out here.
Team mates running two Red Bull cars.
We've got a little bit of an announcement about a very cool can
that Red Bull has developed for these two drivers.
We're going to talk about that.
We're going to talk about their seasons.
We're going to San Diego.
There's a lot of information there.
We're racing with these two guys out of the Junior Motorsport shop in Sonoma.
So a lot to talk about.
Can't wait to get to it.
Let's bring them in the room and get started.
Don't forget here in the RB Studio.
We want to talk to you about this new Meetin' 3 Box.
You get more mule for your money at Arby's with this new Meetin' 3 Box.
We have the meets, and let's get this show started.
So Shane Van Gisburgen and Conor Zillett, team mates, track house.
Conor, 19 years old, 13 time rally series winner.
24 hours a day tunnel winner in the LMP2 class.
Shane, 37 years old, seven time cup winner, 25.
Next car cup, rookie of the year, three time Supercars champion.
So thanks for coming.
Appreciate both of y'all.
You both, you dudes are two good guys.
And and we get the race together here at Junior Motorsports.
Have to remind myself because I see you guys as Sunday guys, right?
I see you as I'm watching you guys out of the booth and I'm kind of over
focused on on our cup stuff and everything that's going on there.
Sometimes I forget how much fun we get to have on Saturdays sometimes.
But we're here today. Red Bulls brought us all together.
There's a new NASCAR edition can coming out June 29th.
And you two guys are on the can.
So y'all each have one of these cans.
What do you think? I mean, have you ever been on a can of anything?
Yeah, yeah, twice on a Red Bull.
And but it's still pretty awesome.
Yeah, Red Bull can't I've never done.
I've never been on a can.
So this is new for me.
I'm I don't know.
I think a year and a half into this Red Bull relationship.
And yeah, this is this is really cool.
Yeah, wait till you go to a petrol station and you pick one out.
It's a weird feeling.
Yeah, it's looking at when you go to the store.
It's pretty awesome.
Hell, yeah.
Well, that yeah, you'll be getting pictures from friends.
They'll see it in the store and send it sending you photos of it.
That's that's when it's really cool.
Yeah, the new Red Bull can with Shane and I is available at Circle K
starting on June 29th.
You guys are both running also at San Diego this weekend.
You're running some special Red Bull cars.
It's the first time since 2011 that Red Bull has been on two race cars
in the same race in NASCAR.
Yours is going to be silver SVG.
Connors will be blue.
Two great looking race cars.
I think the the Red Bull cars always look the best.
They're just great schemes.
There's we're looking at SVGs on the screen right there.
That's a good looking damn car, dude.
There's the blue version for for Connor.
You know, it's an iconic brand.
I guess I could ask you guys.
You know, I don't know how y'all think about this.
I've always I've always had this feeling about partners and sponsors.
Man, when you get to carry a big brand,
I don't know, man, it feels you feel a little bit better than everybody else.
You feel like you're a little more special than everybody else out there.
You see some guys, you look across the garage or look at the starting grid
and you look at some of the sponsors on some of the cars and you go,
I don't know what the hell that is.
I don't know how I'd sell that or how I'd promote that.
And when you get partnered up with somebody like Red Bull,
that everybody in the world knows what that is, right?
It makes your job so much easier outside of the race car.
Yeah, no doubt.
Yeah, I agree.
It's it's definitely I didn't realize it when I first started,
even when I became an athlete in 2024,
like what the relationship would grow to, you know, obviously,
we all wanted them to be a sponsor for our team.
And yeah, I mean, it's it's grown to a pretty big substantial amount now.
And it's really cool.
Yeah, like you said, it's it's just fun to be able to work with them.
And, you know, you see all the cool stuff they do away from racing
and getting to be a small part of that and having the opportunity
to do cool stuff like that is is a lot of fun.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Second that.
And even how long have you been?
Since 2016, when I joined the team in Australia,
you just having the having fans be excited to have the sponsor
back in the sport was awesome when I first came back.
And that's right. Yeah.
And then even this week seeing the car get released,
people posting pictures of that 2011 car.
I think it was Scott Speed, John Silver and Blue.
And yeah, it was epic.
And but it's cool how excited they are to be back in the sport.
Like they got the big energy station set up this weekend and they're having a big crack.
It's pretty cool to have them back.
Yeah, they they came in years and years ago, basically kind of almost,
you know, self funding their own operation.
And we were we were freaking pumped.
It was kind of similar to when like Juan Pablo came.
It's like, wow, he chose us over F1.
Or, you know, it's kind of felt made us kind of raised us a little bit
when Red Bull came in to create their own team.
And, you know, it could have worked.
It didn't work.
It had some opportunities to work, but it didn't end up panning out and they left.
And so I think you're, you know, you're dead.
You're dead on that when they talked about coming back into the sport,
there was a bunch of excitement around it because we all wanted them to succeed.
Yeah. I don't think I went too well, did it?
It didn't. And there's reasons for that.
It's hard to come.
A couple of series is hard.
You guys know that trying to manage and run a
come in and create a startup team out of thin air is difficult to do.
But they made it go at it and had some found some success,
had some good runs and had some good weekends.
But I think we were sad to see them go.
And personally, you know, as somebody who is NASCAR to to the core,
it felt like we failed a bit.
You know, like, how could they come?
How could they not come in here and make this work?
What did we what it is about us that isn't good enough or right or correct
for for Red Bull to succeed?
And so when they decided to come back, man, it was awesome because we knew
they could succeed here and with the right situation.
And so got a couple of drivers right here at this table that, you know,
that have had a lot of success and and and you guys take the, you know,
relationship really seriously, you're very proud to be a Red Bull athlete.
And so it's good to have them back and good to see them having success.
We're going to San Diego to race these cars that we're looking at.
And I the the racetrack itself is pretty daunting.
And but you two guys are probably the only two guys.
There may be a few more that aren't that intimidated by such a such a project.
But every time that we go to anything like this, it's chaos.
Our, you know, for all our series, the trucks, a rally for Cup,
it's going to be chaos.
And and I want to talk about that a little bit.
We, you know, what what first off kind of what what's been the preparation?
I've heard some different things about drivers spending a lot of time in the
SEM. I know if you go do a SEM session for for this racetrack for two hours,
you're lucky to get 20 laps because it takes a long to get around there.
And, you know, for a driver, I've heard Honeycutt in the trucks has run almost
400 laps on the SEM, which is insane.
I don't know that's what I heard from a Toyota official this past weekend.
So, you know, and you have our racing at home, where it's available to you.
How much time are each of you guys spending on SEM?
Is that going to be beneficial to you?
Do you see it as beneficial to other guys?
How do you guys prepare?
Yeah, I did some R racing actually last night.
That's probably the only SEM I've done and in the MX five out of out of things.
And yeah, actually call got on last night and we were racing each other,
but I went through a few virtual cars.
That's for sure.
It's tough, man.
Oh, I like that.
Even the first corners on the edge, that right.
And then you come down that hill and it's bumpy and then head on as a wall.
Like, so I've crashed there many times.
Yeah, that's difficult.
I've destroyed some virtual Chevy's, unfortunately.
But yeah, it's it's challenging.
It's so technical and I've been spending most of my time on eye racing.
Eye racing has done a really good job keeping the track updated and
you know, even better than what the OEMs can do with with the simulator
that we have at the GM Tech Center.
So yeah, eye racing has been really good.
And honestly, I prefer eye racing over the big SEM for this week just because of that.
So yeah, it's, you know, whenever the track changes,
you want to be driving the most updated track possible.
And eye racing has done a good job of that.
So it's it's it's cool.
I mean, it's it's definitely tough, like Chicago was tough.
But I feel like this track is even more technical than what that was.
I feel like that was a lot of 90 degree corners and just kind of stopped and goes
and a lot of the corners were the same.
And I feel like this track's got some more character to it.
So I'm excited for it.
What about the, you know, there's a couple of corners where you're coming,
you know, around and and there'll be a tire pack right in your right.
I mean, dead in front of you.
Um, like where I guess the broader question is, is like,
you know, where every time we go to one of these tracks or every time
we do something new, anything new, it's just a lot of chaos
and problematic issues and people finding different ways to hit things
and new ways to hit things.
Um, and, uh, I just, you know, there's some areas that are kind of questionable
that I'm a bit concerned about when we start racing through them.
Right.
It's one, it's one thing to go out there and run by yourself.
The whole track.
Right.
So every, every corner I see on the track is different, unique, bumpy, challenging.
Like I can see.
Yeah.
What is carnage at every corner almost?
It's tough.
And so with the next gen car and how, how that car ride, the ride quality
of that car and how unique it is to anything else that we do, um, there
are some really, really rough spots.
And I think you saw that at Chicago, like the first year, a lot of cars
were high and soft, like the 91 car.
And then everyone's gotten greedy.
Like it's gotten lower and lower and stiffer.
Cause that's how the car makes grift, but there's a huge compromise
between getting the floor on the ground and ride quality.
So luckily it's an open practice.
So we get to try some things, but I think it's a huge compromise.
You're going to see some bad handling cars.
Yeah.
People getting greedy and running too low and slamming the track.
I went out there last week and I think it's, I mean, I lose count at five,
but that back straight, it's so rough.
Even driving the road car, it was rough.
So it's going to be interesting to see how the cars go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've been out there.
Yeah.
Last week we did a bit of promotion stuff and you got to run around the track itself.
Yeah.
And well, no, half it's not even built.
Right.
There's a lot of traffic on a runway.
They can't, they can't be there till Thursday.
Have you been out there personally?
I went out there together two or three months ago.
Yeah.
How much of the, how much did you get to learn?
Well, I, I didn't learn a ton, honestly.
I saw like three corners, but I didn't even get to drive on it or anything.
I was there just last week and it's amazing that we're going to race there
next week because there's not much, yeah, would build tracks in Australia.
It would be done months before they'd be building here.
It's a week out.
Yeah.
They're doing it all the week of, and that's the thing like they couldn't
because it's on an active runway, they didn't get access to that until I think
at some, yeah, it's like some point this week.
So, you know, they get five days to build it.
And, you know, you've been practicing on this iracing thing that you're
relying on and treating, you know, like it's the truth.
And then, you know, a guy with a forklift decides he's going to put the wall there
and set it there.
And all of a sudden, a couple of feet can mean, yeah, what you, what you just spent
for what Kate and Honeycut just did 400 laps of is useless.
So it's kind of, it's kind of one of those things where you can't really rely
on the simulator too much.
You just got to go there and walk the track and see what it's like.
How do you think NASCAR handles cautions there?
Because, you know, when we have a, if, you know, on the road courses,
that's the toughest part about this whole deal is when the caution comes out,
particularly race at the end of stage breaks.
It takes so long to run a caution lap at most these road courses.
And this one's, you know, the longest one that we've we've got.
That's one thing I'm kind of curious as to how how NASCAR might call this race.
Would they maybe be less likely to throw yellows in certain instances?
Let sit there and wait and hope and pray this guy can get it together
and get moving or whatever, right?
Do they hold that flag a little bit longer?
I mean, I get so bored of some of these races.
Yeah, the cautions can be so bad.
I hope they, I mean, NASCAR knows it too.
Like they, they, they'll be the first to admit that, yeah, we, the cautions are
too long, but whether it's TV or, um, you know, if, if when I exploded
a brake rotor at, at Nashville, they had to go out and find every single
piece of brake rotor, because if not, someone was going to run it over
and get a flat tire.
So, um, yeah, I mean, I, they always have a, a reason, I guess, but man,
when you're in the car driving around under caution for 20 minutes,
it's like, I mean, it's three and a half miles.
It's going to be a six minute lap on the course.
I know.
And then that's the thing they, at stage breaks, we always do like a full
lap and then one time by to tell, like it's, it's going to be a long car.
I wonder if they'll, I wonder, I'm surprised.
I hope they just open the pits right away.
Right.
I'm surprised that they haven't, I'm so, I will be surprised, I suppose,
if they don't change some of their protocol a little bit around caution.
And then do the choose after the second lap open or something, hopefully.
It should be two laps of caution, Max.
Like open the pits right away, unless there's a crash right there,
but you should be able to open the pits right away.
The stages are only 20 laps.
So we're getting up pretty quick.
Yeah.
Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr.
Guess what?
We are coming to San Diego.
We got two live shows for you Friday the 19th.
There's Dirty Mo Live presented by the US Navy.
We will be on the NASCAR experience stage at 1045 local time.
Ryan Blaney will be the headliner.
So that should be a lot of fun.
They don't Saturday the 20th.
We're doing a live broadcast of the Dale Jr.
Download presented by Arby's and the US Navy right there in Victory Lane
at 5.30 p.m. local.
Come hang out.
Hope to see you there.
We'll be having a blast.
If you aren't going to San Diego, you can check all of this out on our
Dirty Mo Media YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcast.
So we also have some new merch for you at shop.dirtymomedia.com.
Here's a new t-shirt.
This is for the San Diego weekend.
The Dale Jr.
Download got you a little airplane right there.
It's time for a pit stop.
Naval based Coronado.
And then for all you Arby's fans, beef.
I just think that's fun.
Beef.
And then this one's pretty cool.
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What's your, um, a rally schedule for the rest of the season?
All right.
You got me at Sonoma in Chicago land.
I've never been to Chicago land.
So I thought that would be a good one to go do a lot of fun.
What about you, SVG?
Just Sonoma for me.
Yeah.
You don't let him race on ovals.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'd love to.
Yeah.
Hey, we're we've got some inventory.
Yeah, just talk, just money talks, buddy.
Anyone?
So, um, you guys get to go, uh, to Sonoma and compete against each other.
Y'all have done that, uh, in a couple of different racetracks.
And, um, it can get contentious, but you guys are in two really good race cars.
Always say this.
So, um, you know, if you put fast race cars on the racetrack, sometimes they're,
you know, as a teammate, sometimes they're going to run into each other.
And so I don't get too worried about it as long as somebody wins the race, you
know, um, but, uh, how, you know, y'all weren't teammates last, you know, like
when y'all first kind of started racing against each other in a roller series
and really trying to, um, you know, really being each other's toughest competition.
Uh, but now you've had some time together as teammates.
You shared competition meetings together.
You've done functions together.
You've gotten to know each other a whole lot better.
I'm sure.
And, um, how has that relationship changed?
How, what are we, what are we going to see on the racetrack when we go to Sonoma?
Uh, if you two are still up front duking it out.
I mean, I feel like I, I have a lot of respect for Shane and, and what he does.
And, and he's always raised me really cleanly.
So, um, for me, I have no reason to not be that way.
Um, you know, if I'm racing against someone else, I'd probably race a little
rougher and, um, but I know Shane, I mean, Sonoma last year in the XFINITY
race or whatever it was, you know, he could have just shit me out of the way,
like anybody else would have in the last corner and he didn't.
So, um, you know, there's things that other people would do that maybe we
wouldn't do to each other.
Maybe if it's for a cup win, it might be a little different than a Saturday win.
But, um, yeah, I mean, I feel like we both respect each other and Walken's
Glenn, like in stage two, we were both just checked out and weren't really
racing each other, just chugging along.
Um, so yeah, I feel like we both know what the standard is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
It's easy to forget that the team is bigger than, than you sometimes.
So I feel like we've gotten definitely better.
We've had some pretty awesome races and watching Sonoma last year, that was an
epic race, but you're right.
If it was anyone else, we probably would have fenced each other for the win,
like the way you were blocking and the way I could have done it.
But I look back on it.
It was an epic race and so yeah, hopefully it's the other way around this year.
So how about the cup stuff?
Um, I know Connor last several weeks been tough for you, man.
It's just been a difficult year.
Rookie seasons are all, you know, can go this way and, um, you've, you've getting
your, uh, getting us, you're getting an education in patients, uh, for sure.
Um, and I was going to joke with you if SVG has been giving you any tips on the
ovals, but, uh, because he's seeming, seems to have found some, some, some
common ground, uh, some speed there.
Um, and so, you know, taking that program, you know, first off, I guess going
from a rally to cup, everybody talks about how big a jump that is.
I don't think it's easy to like see it, uh, for a fan watching at home.
Like, you know, the racing all kind of, it's stock cars, four tires,
Searmill, just a race car.
It looks like, yeah, but the, so talk to us about how, how, how different say
racing for 20th on the cup side is versus racing for 20th on the O'Reilly series.
Yeah.
It's a whole different ball game.
I, uh, you know, everybody talks about it, right?
And, and I, all my friends who race in the cup series joke with me, you know,
you just wait buddy, just wait.
And it's like, ah, you know, I feel like it won't be that bad.
And, and, you know, I knew coming into this year that it was going to be tough,
especially after the, just even the three races I did last year, I was like, okay,
yeah, this stuff's no joke.
And, um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's just a whole different level.
The teams, the drivers, um, everything is times 10 and just way more challenging.
So, um, I love it.
Honestly, like I, I, as much as, you know, sometimes I hate my life inside of the
car and, and, you know, just want to get out and be done with the race because
we're running so bad.
I, I just, I love the challenge of it.
I appreciate how good all the teams and drivers are.
Um, and it just makes me better as a driver and pushes me as a, as a human to,
to want to be better.
So, um, yeah, as, as frustrating as it gets at times, it's, it's a fun challenge
for me and, and I know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.
I just got to get there and work to get there sooner than later.
Yeah.
Um, Shane, the oval stuff starting to click, uh, we saw some, um, I mean, I know
we've seen it before, but like Charlotte was a great example of, uh, you know,
your potential and, and your improvement.
Um, you know, do you, and you've had a couple of runs in the last month.
So it wasn't like this one off pop.
Um, for whatever reason, just couldn't really get things going at Pocono.
It was a clunky race all together for a lot of you guys back there with the
strategies and, and just how rough the racing was in the back half of the field.
But, uh, talk about that progress, figuring these ovals out.
Yeah, it's just more and more light bulb moments, I guess, more and more glimpses
of knowing how to feel what's happening and what, what, what, how to do things.
Right.
I guess.
And then also developing the car, like we're going back to these tracks,
second, third, fourth time now, and sort of getting a setup I like in a, in a
direction, my driving styles pretty different.
What I want from the car, I guess.
But yeah, and then once you get up there, the car is completely different.
Like the air is, the air is so good up the front and you just get so much more
grip and if you start up front, you can kind of keep there.
Yeah.
And you can develop your car all day.
Whereas if you're at the back, it's you're just trying to get turned all day
and you finally get up there and your cars hit in the ground and you lose.
So it's hard to know what to ask for.
Like at Pocono, I started at the back, did a pretty average job in qualifying
and I got to a decent spot and then next restart, my car was bad
because my feedback wasn't right.
So there's still things I'm learning, but yeah, like I feel like the potential's
there and I'm still learning a lot, but I'm definitely getting better.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's hard.
Like we're obviously struggling as a team.
So you've got to kind of temper your expectations.
I know my teammates are awesome.
So I just kind of kind of gauge myself off them when I'm struggling.
And but yeah, it's been good to be matching Ross more often than not this year
because he's a pretty good yardstick for us, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah, Ross isn't here to give his version of events, but I've known him
a really long time and good hard racer.
The the team as a whole.
So when, you know, looking at it from from my 40,000 foot view,
the next gen comes, it's a level playing field.
Trackhouse seemed to benefit from no one knowing nothing, right?
And they had a lot of good success out of the gate with the next gen car.
But as other teams have developed and improved, it seems that Trackhouse
hasn't been able to keep that same pace.
And there has been moments this year where you kind of start to see some gains.
Where do you guys feel like you are as a company?
How far along you've come since February?
What are the, you know, where do you find, I guess, the
the hope or the positive mentality that progress is going to continue?
And, you know, you guys are going to get to where you want to be.
I think we had a bit of a lull, I guess, April.
And then we've been like experimenting a lot with setups.
I guess what was before Dover?
Dover, Texas, then Dover?
Yeah, Texas.
We had a better run.
And then I feel like we've got potential in our cars.
We've kind of gone outside our window to try and find some stuff.
And but we're a lot of hit and miss at the moment.
And yeah, you'll have one week where you were on top five and, you know,
have a chance to race the JGR cars.
And then, you know, the next week we try something new and go to the
downforce package and all of a sudden we're 30th again.
It's like, man, I was just, I just had this glimmer of hope last week
and now I'm running 30th again.
So yeah, it's a lot about the road.
Like we're sort of trying and spreading stuff.
Yeah.
And that's the thing.
I mean, you're not going to get better if you don't try stuff.
So, you know, it's, it's definitely trial and error.
And you're going to have bad weeks in those attempts, but, you know,
you just got to learn from the good weeks.
And it's tough with the packages as well, right?
You have these different packages.
So, you know, one week you might be good on the, you know, the high
downforce package and then, you know, you try and apply those same things
to the low downforce package.
And it's like, well, that didn't work.
And you're like, man, well, so you got to learn for two different
packages as well.
And, and, you know, that makes it challenging too.
Yeah.
Then plus you got a new car, new arrow map with this car.
It's got a lot more nose downforce on the front.
And when we go to the low downforce package, I mean, you kind of got
two whammies there with, you didn't expect, I guess, when they were
developing this new car that you were going to be running this package,
that's going to give you what you were actually looking for with this car.
So now you got two shifts towards front down and trying to knock the back
of the car in.
And I talked to Cliff Daniels, who works with the five car over at HMS and
they were really, they really hit it, hit it with, hit it from a lot of
different angles and had multiple, say, let's just say he had multiple
things that he was doing to try to get the car comfortable.
And, and they weren't having any success with that.
And then probably right before Chicago or right before Charlotte,
they went, they hit the reset button and just went back to zero and started
chipping away, you know, at trying to get the car comfortable with one
adjustment like nose weight or just cross or just this, right.
And we've seen the Chevrolet start to close the gap a little bit on the
Toyotas.
I know you as a company, y'all as a company want to get better.
A lot of companies out there want to get better.
But what do you guys make of where Chevrolet is in comparison to Toyota?
Because the Toyotas across the board seem to have an advantage.
They do have an advantage.
It's not, it's not a rumor.
It's the, uh, it's true, but, you know, and rare, we rarely see that in the
sport for this long of a period of time.
And it's been a whole half a season where the Toyotas have kind of, you know,
had, had their, had their fun.
Uh, but it looks like Chevrolet is closing the gap.
And I'm just kind of couldn't, you know, one of what you guys think about
when you're out there racing or you feel like you're handicapped, you feel
like you're racing with one arm behind your back with how good a lot of
Toyotas are.
You're seeing legacy up there running top 10.
I know they've made gains as a company, but still, you know, you're, you
used to beating them guys, you know, four or 56 months ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the sport ebbs and flows a lot.
Um, and certainly they have something figured out with, um, you know, also us
getting this new body and having to learn it.
I feel like we've definitely regressed a little bit more than we would like and
haven't quite figured it out as soon as expected, you know, you put the body in
the wind tunnel and it shows that it's going to be way better.
And, and you're like, okay, cool.
Well, this should be, this should be an easy win.
And, and then all of a sudden, you know, a small arrow shift balance and or an
arrow balance shift and, and you're, you know, having to learn that and, and
apply that to your own car.
So, um, yeah, we, we definitely still have room to, to grow and improve.
I know that there's more potential in, in the body that we have and, and the
direction we're going, but, um, it's cool to see all the Chevy teams working
together to try and, you know, find that solution and, and get better.
So, um, yeah, it just takes time.
I mean, it's, it's kind of one of those things that it's just, you got a trial
and error until you find your way to, to success again.
And, and I know that we'll get there as an organization and, and as an OEM, but,
um, yeah, the, the Toyota's are really fast right now.
I mean, there's, there's no hiding the fact that they're the class of the field.
So, um, yeah, we got some, some room to grow and improve.
How do you find, how do you find the speed?
Like, you know, I don't think that Shane, you're too crazy about the
manufacturer, Sam, you don't spend a ton of time in there.
No, I mean, some guys do.
Denny spends, Denny will have a light bulb moment in the middle of the
night and go jump in the SIM the next morning, you know, and run for a couple
hours.
Um, how do you find the speed outside?
You don't get a lot of practice, you don't get a lot of time to try it in real life.
It's, it's hard.
Like some weeks the SIM is good, but other weeks I find it isn't really beneficial.
You kind of just, when you're driving it, you're trying to say words to keep
people happy, but really you're just going round in a circle.
So, um, yeah, I find it's just hard work and all in the preparation and debriefs,
trying to give the right details, but it's hard to find speed in a straight line.
Sometimes if that makes sense.
Like Kota was a surprise.
I thought my car was pretty decent, but you're losing five car lengths on
the straight makes it difficult too.
So it's hard to make that up.
You feel like power wise, you got some gains to make.
I think so.
And I think we've made some upgrades already.
Like we're not just sitting still.
I think ECR are doing a good job and paired with Hendricks.
So there's gains coming, but yeah, I think the start of the season was a shock.
Oh yeah, it was bad.
It was bad.
Like Kota Kota was a shock.
Kota was really bad.
Um, and we've definitely gotten better since, I mean, that's the first I've
kind of heard, heard of, uh, you know, I know that, uh, Toyota's go to the corner
a little bit better, but that's the first I really heard that you feel like.
And it could be an arrow thing.
You know, I mean, they could have a less drag and, you know, they're able,
they have so much more downforce, they're able to take drag out of it.
And, and, you know, I don't, I don't know what, if it's actually the, the engine
that's doing it, or if it's, yeah, I mean, I think it's all a combination.
But, um, yeah, you know, they're, they haven't figured out.
That's for sure.
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I know you guys are excited to, to race some rally stuff for us.
I'm taking, uh, my two girls.
They got to go last year to Pocono when, when Connor won.
That was their very first ever experience of what Victor Elaine was.
They'd never been there in their life.
Well, that was a crew chief weekend.
Wasn't it?
We got to go again this past weekend with, with Justin.
They got to ride in the car.
Yeah.
A little cold did, uh, which was a shock, but, um, and they'll be in Sonoma.
All right.
Pressures on.
We'll try not to make you sweat too much again.
Does I want to ride in the car?
That is, uh, so if, if you ever have kids, uh, it'll, you don't know which,
which one's going to be happy on what day and which one's going to be mad.
They're never both happy, right?
And so like, so when you, when me and you went at Pocono, Nicole was mad
and held, didn't want to get any, any pictures.
Didn't want to stand up there and hold the flag.
Nothing.
She stood off over to the side.
So we were going to Pocono and I'm talking to them.
I'm like, Hey, we, you know, we got five cars.
We're going, we might win, you know, come on.
And, uh, and, and, uh, they're like, okay, yeah, I want to go to Victor
Elaine's going to be fun.
Yeah.
Well, we went in the race where we're running toward the flag stand, right?
Justin's out there doing burnouts.
Halfway there.
Ola goes, I don't like to smoke.
And from that moment on, she wasn't, we were 50 yards in the car.
From that moment on, she was madder in hell the rest of the day.
Sit over in the corner of Victor lane.
Didn't want to get any pictures.
Nothing, maybe it was a me thing.
Maybe she just enjoyed being in Victor lane with me.
Maybe so, maybe so, but they'll be there in Sonoma.
That's going to be a fun trip.
Yeah.
And hopefully one of us is in all of us are in Victor lane when it's
all said and done.
Um, the, uh, you know, what are some of the race tracks outside of San Diego?
Um, you know, I guess I'll start with you, Shane, looking at the rest of the year.
Um, what are outside of San Diego, all the road courses and stuff like that.
What are some of the race tracks you're looking forward to?
Uh, I've started to enjoy the mile and a half small, like getting more
comfortable at them, like the Kansas and Vegas.
I had a bad race, but practicing qualifying or decent Chicago, uh, is back on.
And that's a fun ass race track.
That looks fun.
It looks like you all had, I've seen some onboard from the test a couple of weeks ago.
Looks rough.
So the bump in the tunnel of turn three and there's a big one into turn one.
Now there's a really in the one resealed it after it's a, it's like driving off
a set of stairs.
That was the first corner.
Yeah.
Okay.
You just, you kind of, it's like, yeah, it's like driving.
It's like driving off a set of stairs.
It's just like a land and that's it.
I didn't think it was too bad.
No, I think it's, I think it's been re-sealed since they're, yeah.
So I think it's a new bump.
New bump.
But all the tests footage, they're on the inside, but when you see racing from
there, like you're all over the track.
So yeah.
The bump in the middle of three and four to me is the worst because you drive
into it, like it's, you land, you drive into it.
It's like, wow.
Yeah.
You can see on the on boards, they're straightening the wheel as they're about
to hit it going over and then it's kind of similar to three and four at Texas,
but maybe even a little worse.
Oh, yeah.
That bump isn't fun.
No, no, no, that one's rough.
Yeah.
War out track though, man.
And I mean, it, it was war out when we were racing there.
And now that it's seven years ago.
Yeah.
Now that it's set with nothing, it's going to be like, it's like
accelerated the abrasiveness of that.
It's going to be wild.
Nice.
Yeah.
I'm curious to see what it's like.
The other one's probably Atlanta.
That's coming up soon.
We had a fun race.
Atlanta.
Yeah.
We were quite good there.
I'm not sure whether I would like racing there.
It's chaotic.
I think 30 year old me would, but not 50 year old.
I finished that race and like it's like nothing else for me.
Like mentally, I'm just dead.
I think I have the worst super speedway record of all time.
Like I, I've from Xfinity to cup.
I have finished, I've run, you know, full time last year was six speedways.
And then I've gotten three this year and I have finished on the lead lap in one race.
Yeah, I had the same last year.
I had the exact same record.
My first six plate races in a rally and stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, just, oh my gosh, I'm horrible.
I don't, and I feel like I, all the time, I'm like, oh, that was just bad luck.
And I look at my, like I go back and look at the stats.
I'm like, it's got to be me.
Like I, there's no way I'm just, so I don't know.
Maybe I need to find a way to stay out of these wrecks a little bit.
It'll click.
It's just 10th at Atlanta last year, didn't you?
Oh, I guess I got 11 last year.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I finished 11 while I forgot I did a cup race last year.
So yes, I have two out of 10.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, the racing, the way they're, the way the racing is at Daytona and Talladega
is it's kind of, I mean, your, your results are really out of your hands.
You're not, you know, you don't get to decide what's happening to you and those races.
You're just so long for the ride.
You're just kind of sitting in line and doing nothing.
I thought that's changing for Daytona.
We'll see.
Yeah.
Well, we're going testing to see if we can change you.
You excited about that?
I am.
I mean, you're not racing, but I mean, I'm, I mean, if they change the race,
they might entertain the idea of going back and running Daytona, but not really.
But I ain't doing it the way y'all are doing it now.
I'm not going out there to run.
The thing is though, 10th in line and not be able to pull out and do the thing.
The thing is though, I don't think once, once the teams know about this fuel saving thing.
You don't think it should change.
Yeah, I understand.
But, but I also think that it might not, it might not ever change.
The O'Reilly cars, like these cars, if you are running 15th in line and the
leader's going wide open, you're going to be pretty close to wide open.
Like I feel like you just, I don't know, you race the O'Reilly car.
So you would know too, but I feel like you're not able, like the bubble of the
hole from the field is not as big as, as cup, like cup.
I feel like when you're in the back, you can just like coast and you're just like
dragged along, but it's not like that on Saturdays.
Now, but like if you're, you know, if, if you're, if the field's up there running
a second, two seconds slower, the lead cars are, you know, running 60%
throttle, like Justin in the, in the Daytona race, I'm like, you know,
at this, that morning I went up to Rick Hendrick and Gordon and I said, Hey,
I know y'all got a plan and Hendrick cars are going to do this.
And y'all know how your race, you got your race mapped on what you're going to do.
I'm, we're in this one race.
We're not running any more races.
I want us, we're going to run wide open.
We're going to run hard as we can run.
If we're leading and run out of 40 to go, I don't care how short on fuel we are.
Like I'm just, we're just going to go like hell.
So there was an Indy 500, Pajano one in the yellow pencil car and he ran wide
ass open all day and they were screaming on the radio to him like, dude, we can't,
this isn't the plan.
He's like, I don't care.
I'm leading and they're like, but we're not going to make it on our strategy.
And he's like, I don't get it.
And the cautions fail perfectly.
He's, you know, and he winds up winning.
Yeah.
And they were fine.
And so I'm like, you know, we're just going to go run like hell.
Like it seems like we get told off if we did that.
Right.
I know.
Like I don't, that's why I wouldn't want to go do it.
It's because like you're the one driving it.
Why you gotta listen?
Well, I know.
I mean, I could just do whatever hell I wanted.
But that, do you see how that worked out for us?
Yeah, yeah, you got rekt.
Thanks for that.
Yeah.
Yes.
So I mean, that I don't see how they can.
I don't know what you do to put the.
The only thing is though, I don't, man, those cars, maybe it's just mine
and my car was driving bad, but I would be scared to take more down force
and, you know, take drag out of them things because I was a handful.
Oh my God, I was out of control.
Like I Daytona and Talladega Daytona.
Talladega is not as bad.
But yeah, the Daytona 500 when it, when the sun was still out
and it was hot outside, I mean, I was hanging on.
When to what end?
Like in the middle of three and four, I was loose.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
And then the exit of four when you get in the back, I was literally
like all the way out of the throttle, plowing tight.
That's what it used to be in the middle of the 2000s.
Yeah.
Like way back.
Dude, like in 2004, pick a year.
It doesn't matter.
We'd go in, you know, you get 30 laps in or 20 laps into a run.
You drive off into turn one and be up to the wall, bowing like out of the
gas to keep them hitting the wall.
And then you get up there and stop and you go gas it again.
And hope as you come around to, you didn't get tight and have to lift
because it would sometimes get tight off too.
And you'd almost hit the wall and have to come out of the gas.
I mean, you were out of gas all the way out of the throttle.
And then two 15 down the straightaway.
Yeah.
Well, down the next straightaway, running over guys.
It's pretty different now.
Yeah.
I mean, 175 man.
Well, I don't know how I know they're going to go test in the winter time
to try to figure some things out.
And I'm sure they got a nice long list of things that they Denny's the lead
the lead guy on it.
So well, if anybody can figure it out, I trust Denny.
Yeah.
That's kind of my thought process.
So they were like, oh, if you guys have anything to say, I was like,
yeah, he's been doing this long enough.
I think he can probably tell them what we need.
And I feel like I don't think I didn't think I'd ever be saying that,
you know, 15 years ago.
What are you not a Denny, bro?
I see the sticker back there.
Yeah, I'm not a Denny, bro, but I want Denny, bro's to be successful.
Let's talk about Denny.
He's on, he's been dominating.
He's taken advantage of the success of the Toyotas this year.
But on top of that, and I'm going to talk to Chris Gale.
Um, I taught this show, this is our Wednesday, Wednesday show.
So I talked to Chris Gale yesterday.
And, um, I feel like that even though the Toyotas are all hard to beat,
Denny's even better than all the Toyotas.
You guys are out there on the racetrack with him and y'all, y'all have,
you know, y'all probably had a lot of conversations with Denny.
I think Chris Gale needs to be celebrated a little bit because he's
obviously found a way to extract more comfort and speed out of the car
than the other crew chiefs that are having, you know, have Toyotas in their garage.
But what is it about Denny too?
I mean, you know, you talk about how your feedback wasn't right to get, you know,
once you got your car forward and gotten this, you know, better air and you didn't
have, you're like, oh, I don't have the car the way I need it.
Denny seems to have landed in a good spot on what he needs.
And we listened to him talk.
And since I've been in the booth over the last four or five weeks,
he's not fast.
I'll like right from the get his, his first or second, third, fourth, fifth lap.
He's like, you know, top 10 for sure, top five, but like the 45 or somebody
will go out there and run a lap two tenths faster.
But lap 11, lap 15, lap 20, lap 30, like Denny is way better than anybody else.
He's having to work way less than everyone else.
He has figured out something about this car where he is just lights out when,
when we get on old tires and, um, you know, at least that's what I've been
seeing over the last several weeks.
Uh, he's not had great restarts.
He's gotten a little bit better over the last several weeks, but all year
along his restarts have been bad.
And it's, he'll tell you, his car is just not all that great in the first
handful of laps, but it's not, you know, it's not what he's focused on.
What's that all about?
I know you guys are watching emulating, trying to figure out what I never see
him on the track unless he's laughing at me.
So I don't have an answer for you, but it's impressive.
I mean, I had no doubt and I, I mean, he would have a better answer.
Do you guys have a, do you guys study SMT?
Do you try to see what's going on there?
Yeah.
His line's just above mine the whole time.
And I'm like, oh, I don't know if I could do that, but it looks fast.
Luckily got to race him at the 600 and the Nashville a little bit.
And I mean, he's not the fastest, but there's no mistakes.
His precision is unreal.
Like hitting the marks every lap.
And when you overlaid SMT, like the consistency is just insane.
It's really impressive.
And then it's the execution, putting himself in the right spots.
Like I think Bell's faster.
I think Reddix faster, like Bell's his teammate and Nashville at the end of that
race, he did nothing special, but just sit on the bottom and let the other guys
make the mistakes.
And it was epic to watch.
I shouldn't say he did nothing special.
That was special, but it was really cool to watch how he goes about it.
And just like methodical, you know, and then it's, it's pretty impressive
how he just executes every week.
You know, he's obviously got good team around him, good car, but how he does that.
It's, yeah, it's pretty cool to see.
No, he's definitely, I don't know, you know, he's always been that kind of racer.
I've always, when he first came in the NASCAR, he had a very thinking man's
approach to it and a very mental, sort of steady, repetitive, really, you know,
really clean approach to his driving.
He was never really a guy that made a bunch of mistakes.
Never a guy that was, you know, up in the marbles sending it, you know, being a
wild ass, you know, race car driver, he was always kind of very clean.
And he came out of the late model stocks where they didn't have a lot of power
and is all about, you know, is all about momentum, you know, any races like that.
Yep.
And yeah, I feel like that maybe I don't know this next gen car as well as you
guys for sure, but I feel like maybe this car also plays into it a little bit.
How difficult has been for the teams and the drivers to adapt a lot?
Like you've raced the rally cars, you kind of understand what a stock car has
been for the last 30 years, but this car racing in a cup series with the pan
and a low profile tire and all that stuff, some guys just didn't transition to it.
Like some guys just couldn't get comfortable with it and figure it out.
But Denny has.
Yeah, he's impressive.
I mean, it's whenever I watch races and SMC, like he's one of the guys that I
always watch just to, I don't know, he's always doing the right thing.
He puts himself in the right spot in races and, you know, he feels the car very well.
Like I've heard so many cool stories of just how, like how he elevates programs
with his feedback and his ability to make the cars better.
And, you know, that's what makes him so good is because he knows what he needs.
And, you know, I probably took everybody a little bit of time to learn what we
needed out of this car.
But once you get a few race winning cars and understand what it takes, you're like,
okay, I know what feel I'm looking for.
So yeah, I mean, he's, I don't know how I could be him and retire at the end of
next year with the success he's having.
I actually asked him last week, I was like, man, how do you, how do you
retire when you're this successful and having this much fun?
And, you know, I guess you get to a point where you feel like there's nothing
left to achieve.
And, you know, I hope he can win a championship before he gets out of it.
But yeah, he's a, yeah, someone I think we all look up to as, as a race car driver.
Hey, this is Dale Hart Jr.
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You know, when you're talking about the, the next gen car and what, when it feels,
when you have, when the car's right, what is it doing differently than when it's
not handling good?
Like I've, I can, you can tell me kind of how one of these cars drive and I can
understand, I can put myself right in there and know exactly what I'm, what
you're talking about in terms of feel.
But, you know, what, what is, when you drive the next gen car, what are, what
are the challenges that you're facing in the seat of your, in, you see your pants
versus driving the rally car, for example?
Uh, well, I struggle when I get in these or in the truck, like the first, I drove
the truck for the first time at Charlotte and, uh, it was a surprise.
Like it got rained out until Sunday and like I've left pit road, I've set my
wheel and no laps.
Yeah.
And I normally like my wheel set straight or just to the right.
And I've set it a little bit to the right.
And like the race has gone green and gone through the gears.
I've gone into turn one and I've gone, Oh, you forget how much you have to
turn those things with the bus.
And I've got my hands all crossed up and like, I don't drive like you and do
the weird thing.
And so I'm all crossed up.
I'm like, I'm going to have to move here and like, and then I spun out like
embarrassing on lap five.
I went under someone and like beside them and it just, I forgot about like the
side force that just spun me out.
And I just, I didn't even know that I just, yeah, I don't know why, you know,
and then I had to relearn like how the car sits in the corner and these,
these things are just so funky, you know, and then the cup car feels kind of
normal to me.
You know, and then I'm like going through it opposite to what everyone else has.
Would you say that the, I mean, probably dumb question, but would you say
that the cup cars, you know, obviously closer to what you've driven your whole
life?
The cup car is like every other car in the world.
Like when, when the car's sliding, you know, like if you
are having a moment, it's a moment.
Whereas I always struggle to distinguish in an Xfinity or truck when it's
sliding, are you actually sliding or is that just the rear end flexing and the
yaw going, like I never, I never know what's happening in those cars because
everything's just floating in the back.
It's, it's so different.
So I find I'm more in tune with a cup car because it's like everything else.
But it's interesting.
Yeah.
What about you?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I feel similar.
Like I didn't race a stock car until 2022.
My, actually I got a memory like last week, four years ago today, my first stock
race, um, and that was kind of funny.
So, um, yeah, I mean, I, I feel similar.
I feel like the cup car is very hard to get to the edge and be comfortable.
Um, I think that's the hardest part about it.
It's just the rear end is very on edge with the tire.
Um, and it's very sketchy to drive it to the limit, at least with, you know, the
cars that, that we've had, um, with this new body.
Uh, I feel like we just struggled to get rear grip in it and still have front
turn in traffic.
I think that's been our biggest struggle.
Um, you know, whenever we have good rear grip and practice and feel like we're
locked down and you get to the race and you're like, Oh my gosh, we're plowing
tight in traffic.
And then, you know, vice versa.
If, if you feel like you're turning well and feel decent about how you're, you
know, you're going to be in traffic and then you get to the race and you have no
rear grip and you're starting to get tight in traffic and it's the worst of
both worlds.
So, um, yeah, it's finding that balance for me has been tough of, you know, how
much rear grip do I need to be able to, you know, be comfortable with, but also
still have the front positive.
And I feel like Dover was like the first race where I had good rear grip, but not
great, but I could drive through the field and had front turn and was able to,
you know, be comfortable entering the corner and not feel like I was going to
wreck on entry.
So, um, yeah, I think just trying to chase that feeling for me is, is what's
important, but, um, yeah, it's, it's very hard to drive.
I feel like the Xfinity car, you can just drive it at 105% and, you know, you
don't really have to worry about the tire falling off too much and, you know,
you just drive the out of it.
And whereas the cup car, I feel like I'm always on a fine line with the, um, with
the cup car is, um, when I watch the race and I real, I'm watching all the, I'm
looking out and I'm able to see the entire field and all y'all go off into
the corner and every single one of y'all has to wait on the car in front of
him to just figure out where they're going to go.
It's a game of chess.
So you're, you can figure out where you're going to go.
You look like three cars in front of you and you're like, all right, if he's
going bottom, the next car is going top.
And then the next car is going bottom.
And you're like, you're just trying to play out.
You look four cars in front of you to see where everybody's going.
And you're just like, okay, if he's going bottom, he's going top, he's going bottom,
he's going top.
So I'm going to be top.
Yeah.
And that kind of like, it's, it's crazy.
It's, it's so different, every corner.
Race starts as well.
Like if someone misses it and goes wide, you're like, ah, thank you.
And you get a clean air, you can drop through.
Cause if you're stuck behind someone, you just have these blowouts and it's
all front loss.
It's all, well, you sometimes get rare, but it's pretty much all front.
It's front until you get your right front out.
And as soon as the right front headlight hits the, hits the clean air, oh my gosh.
It's, and then it's just your, that's how I wrecked it.
Michigan the first time.
Like I, I pulled out to the right and just like, you know, I, I was loose.
It was my fault.
Like I was already loose and I put myself in that aero spot trying to be in
clean air and you know, that's like the danger zone.
You don't want to be right side out and trailing a car because whatever,
for whatever reason, that's the worst spot.
Yeah.
At least in, when you follow someone directly into the corner, like you're
just going to get tight, but when you get offset, right?
And, and you're behind the car, right?
Yeah.
The whole car goes by and then you just spinning.
Yeah.
It's, it's a huge snap moment.
Damn.
Yeah.
I've kind of, that's the one thing that I think for like a, like Austin Hill, for
example, he's run, you know, eight years, 10 years driving trucks in a rally and
it's relatively all kind of the same mentality about air and where you want
to put your car.
And it's not as critical.
Um, you know, you can't really, you can make a couple of bad decisions, but
nothing super serious.
And now he jumped, he's thrown into this cup car and I know he's run a couple
of cup races in the past year or two, but he's kind of running this thing every
week now and he's, he's having all of these moments where he's like putting,
you know, he's in the wrong spot.
He's decided incorrectly.
And, um, and you see some guys that are in the back of the pack that
continue to do it, that have driven the next gen car for years and they just
continue to, they don't seem to like have picked up on the concept of what the
arrow is like with this car.
Um, sorry to interrupt, I hate to say I wasted a year.
It's a better way to word it, but doing that learning year in Xfinity was not really
like it was good to see the land and learn the tracks and the country, the way
it worked, but I almost should have been thrown in the deep end and cup and
learn that car.
They're just so different.
Like everything I learned.
Yeah, that's kind of the same thing for me.
Like I, you know, people always tag me in social media posts and they're like, oh,
he needs to go back and do another year of a Riley.
And I'm like, it's like you learn nothing.
Like it's, it's, it's so different.
And on restarts, like it's a completely opposite mentality.
Like in Xfinity, you drive it into the corner with the guy in front of you and
try and get as close to their like left rear as you can.
And then cup you're lifting at the flag stand to give yourself air on entry so
that way you can get a run off the corner and, you know, get a run and go
through wide bottom, whatever it is.
But I mean, it's just, it's so polar opposite that I, like I, I run the
Xfinity races or whatever the O'Reilly races to have fun and enjoy it.
But, you know, it's, it's almost like I have to just clear my mind before I go
into that race.
Cause, you know, everything I learned on Sundays is opposite.
It's funny.
I love the cup racing though.
I find it pretty cool.
Like having to search for air and push and move around.
It's, it's, it makes it challenging for sure.
And like, you know, you started to see, see people find ways to manipulate the car
in front of them.
Like if you are in the middle of the corner and, you know, you, you can get to
the guy's left rear and pack air on exit.
Like it's, it's a big blowout moment.
When you think about what is happening in that moment.
So I see that all the time.
I saw it off a turn to Michigan a bunch.
Guys will get to the left rear and this guy, the front car gets tight.
Why, what is happening to the air that makes the, the lead car lose front?
You feel the left rear drop, like it packs air on the spoiler and drops the
weight on the left rear and it kind of drives off the left rear.
And you feel the, like if someone comes beside you on the straight, you feel the
cargo like that.
So it just pushes you out.
Whereas in the Xfinity car, it's the opposite.
It lifts you up and kind of sludge it.
You pack the air and it moves them.
Whereas this.
So it's dumping air on the left rear spoiler and just kind of picks the, picks
the nose up and how it feels to me on loads of right front.
Yeah.
Yeah, I, you know, I, I always feel like I feel the left rear go down and then
like the front of the car, like it just picks, like you literally feel the car
start to float, like it, it just, it completely takes off.
It's the weirdest.
I mean, you completely, it just, like the front is numb when someone gets to
that spot.
Guys were having, have to dump all, oh my gosh, it's huge blowout moments.
Yeah.
It's huge blowout moments.
It's scary.
Like whenever I see someone in my mirror, like I will almost drive away from
them just to not let them get to that spot because it's, it's so.
It's funny how it's all set to the, to this kind of car.
Yeah.
I know you get loose whenever someone gets to that spot.
Yeah.
Are there other, you've talked about being offset to the right on the, on the
behind somebody being a bad spot.
And then that moment they're getting to somebody's left for a quarter panel,
trying to get them tight.
Are there other, um, other things you can, you're trying to do or could do to
make it difficult on the cars around you, besides just trying to, you know,
yeah, I'm driving in your mirror.
I mean, that's the biggest one is just driving in your mirror.
Um, you know, I, I feel like you're in a spot every week where you're, someone's
a little faster than you behind you and you just, you can't let the spot go.
And you got to do it, but, um, you know, I mean, you're just always searching for
clean air, but yeah, I would say the offset, right?
11 car back is the sketchiest spot to be in.
Um, the new Chevy body's actually made that a lot better though.
It was worse last year and the new body has helped make that a lot, a lot better
that spot.
So that's about it though.
I mean, you just don't want to be behind the guy in front of you and you
don't want to be offset, right?
It would make me laugh.
I had Ty Gibbs behind me at Nashville and he was much faster and my line was kind
of a late arc.
I couldn't turn in the rubber, so I'd enter high and exit low and he was kind
of shooting the bottom, trying to get the air.
And I'd do the late apex cut his nose off and I'd see him just plow wide.
Sorry, man.
The only thing I could do, I could just see him plowing wide.
You always feel bad and you're like, uh, he'd do the same thing to me.
So I don't feel bad, but yeah, whenever you see the guy, whenever you see when
you shut the guy off and you just see them take off, it's like, sorry, sorry, man.
We'll see that a lot at Indianapolis.
Um, we see it in Pocono as well quite a bit because of the down there or the
group is there.
Doesn't any of that matter when you go to San Diego?
Uh, you get a lot of heat soak.
Yeah, especially with these tires, uh, if you're following someone for a few laps,
you don't lose downforce really.
You just get more heat and tire temp.
Just, you just lose grips.
Yeah.
That's how it was like walking Glen when I just followed them in stage two.
Like by the end of the stage, it was definitely like just hot.
You want to, you want to get to someone and pass them straight away.
Really?
Yeah.
Huh.
Yeah.
The brakes say everything just heats up so quick.
In traffic right behind you when you're pushing.
Track like that way.
There's no, there's no line choices or the worst 90 degree corners.
There's only one line.
You're following the guy the whole time.
Yeah.
Street court, especially cause you know, you're in between two concrete walls.
There's no air circulation.
It's just the air gets hot inside the, the walls and it's got nowhere to go.
So what, when will you guys go to San Diego?
Thursday morning.
Yep.
What will you do Thursday and Friday?
Uh, we've got some stuff with the all whites, the soccer team for New
Zealand and then I think Thursday night, we got trackball.
Yeah.
Trying to walk in red bull appearance and how the track walk, I know you guys have
done that at some road courses and stuff like that, but how, how much time, how
critical will that be for you?
Will that be like, is that I'm imagining like, uh, the picture that's throwing a
no hitter sits down at the end of the dugout and the teammates stay away from
him when he's getting into the later innings, cause they don't want to get
him out of his mentality.
When you're going to this place, three and a half miles, very technical, a lot
of things to really kind of pick up on before you actually go out there and
drive the lap, how important will be, will your opportunity to download, you
know, the track walk, that'll be pretty critical, critical.
Yeah.
I mean, it gives you just a heads up for those first couple of laps, I guess, but
I feel like you see more on the track walk than you do when you're driving.
Like you just, I don't know, you're walking it at a very slow pace and you
see every pothole or bump.
And as you said, where's the forklift guy put, put the barriers down like
Chicago every year, the barriers were in different spots.
So you're trying to see where he's put it, where the bundles are, the bundles
might move and how far they're going to move.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well, three and a, so when is that Thursday night?
Thursday night.
Yeah.
Actually, we have a request for you.
Are you doing any like pace car rides or anything?
Yeah.
When?
Thursday night, right?
Yeah, that's after track walk.
Yeah.
You want to take us?
Is that legal?
I don't see why not.
Has my guys been safe?
Have you seen them on a road course?
Hey, I'm all right.
A couple of good runs.
Yeah.
Well, if you've got an open seat in your car, we'd be happy to,
to join you.
I don't need to give you any tips at Sonoma, but I was all right to the glint.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't, yeah, I'm going to do the track walk with you guys.
Really?
Yeah.
If I can do the track walk and bug this out of y'all while you're walking
okay with questions.
I don't see why not.
Y'all can hop in the pace car.
That's a fair trade.
Yeah, I like that.
But somebody's going to complain about this.
You know that, right?
Oh yeah.
They always complain.
Especially when y'all run good, which is going to happen.
Anyways, no pace car rides or no or not.
But I have to drive.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
As long as you can't drive because then we really would get in trouble.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can drive.
All right, man.
Well, thanks for coming through Connor's village.
Shane van Gisburgen.
I appreciate these guys coming through.
I appreciate Connor's village SVG joining us here in the RB studio.
Pretty awesome for those guys to come through.
Talk about the San Diego course and a couple of things that stood out to me
was the, the heat soak conversation around, you know, as we go to San Diego,
let's watch these races.
Let's sit there and, and, and think about as, you know, as we see another car
kind of dogging the guy ahead of him, how, how urgent he is mentally to try
to make this pass before he starts to, you know, piss off the tires, the brakes
and everything else.
And it just gets near, it gets next to impossible to make the, make the, make,
to make the position, to take the position away.
So SVG said, Hey, man, you got to, when you get there, you got to make
quick work of it when we're watching the race this weekend.
Let's think about as we're seeing this race play out.
That's what's going on in the driver's mind.
And so he's, you know, he's not patiently sitting there waiting for a mistake.
He's anxious, trying to make a pass, knowing that time's running out, the,
the sand and hourglass is running out quickly before this car gets, starts to
lose performance, his own car, right?
That's interesting to me because we don't really think as we're watching the race,
we don't really think that one guy's in, you know, at an advantage and another guy's
performance is degrading rapidly because of the disadvantage of being the following car.
So that, that was interesting.
The other thing that I thought I, I don't love to hear, but
it's, they both, they both said it was that their time in the O'Reilly series was
maybe not as, not as helpful.
Now I would slightly disagree with Connor, but maybe not SVG.
So SVG comes to us with decade, a decade or more of racecraft.
He has developed, he's a racer.
He's, he doesn't need to really learn a lot of rookie mistakes and,
and go through all of that, right?
So he's, he's, he's, he's already complete.
Connor's 19 years old.
As he said, he ran his first asphalt race four years ago.
And while the cars are completely different and he is correct in saying he's learning
nothing about racing the next gen, if he's in an O'Reilly car, he's not learning anything
that's going to help him on Sunday in terms of how the tire feels, how the car works,
how the arrow works, none of that matters.
None of it transitions.
He said it.
He's got to get out of that O'Reilly car and just almost do a men in black,
zap his brain and forget everything because he, because none of that stuff that
the O'Reilly car did is going to be helpful.
But what I would say he did gain while he's in the O'Reilly series and he will continue
to gain while he races O'Reilly cars is racecraft.
And so while he's very talented and he has less racecraft to learn than other 19 year olds,
I do think the O'Reilly series, the season there was helpful for him.
He won a ton of races, gained a ton of confidence in himself.
That would have not happened in the, the cup series.
If you threw him into the cup series without that O'Reilly season and he had to struggle,
it's a very good chance that the entire industry would have rode him off as a bust.
But he's leaning, you know, he's got that O'Reilly season from last year
that he can sit there and hang on the wall and say,
I know I'm not doing everything I need to be doing this year and I know we're struggling,
but that, that right there says that I belong here and I'm going to get a longer runway,
some grace over the struggles he's having as a rookie in the cup series.
He's going to get a longer runway because of what he accomplished in the O'Reilly series this past
year. So, uh, you know, I, I think it's a benefit to him. Maybe, maybe a second year in the O'Reilly
series wouldn't have been as important and as helpful, but 19 year old Conor Zillich,
there's probably still a little bit of racecraft there to be gained and learned
and he's learning it now at the cup level. Those are some interesting things to hear.
I think the O'Reilly series has a, has a purpose and serves a lot of young drivers,
but, um, yeah, the car, the way that NASCAR has made the two vehicles so vastly unique,
complete opposites from each other, not only in just the parts and pieces, but
arrow everything that they do on the racetrack, how they react around each other.
It's all different. Um, it's made it, you know, it's the, the, the route to get to the cup series
is, is a lot different these days because of that. So, um, as an owner in the rally series,
I wish that the cars were more similar and they reacted to each other and around each other more
similarly. Um, so that was interesting to hear from those guys. Uh, there was a lot of great
conversation there. I loved all of it and, um, I think y'all probably enjoyed it as well
and we'll have them back, man. They were, they were, um, they gave us a lot of great information.
So appreciate them coming through. Um, don't forget about Arby's new meat and three box.
You get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meats and also don't forget
we've got a big, uh, weekend coming up. We talked about it, San Diego.
We'd love to have everybody that's going to be there, uh, to come out and meet us.
We've got two live shows during the race weekend for Dirty Mo Live, uh, Dirty Mo Media.
On Friday, we've got two live shows during the race weekend for Dirty Mo Media. On Friday the
19th, Dirty Mo Live presented by the U S Navy will be on the NASCAR experience stage. So at the NASCAR
experience stage at 1045 in the morning on Friday, Ryan Blaney will be headlining that show.
So go check it out. Support Ryan's a dude is freaking doing this out of the kindness of his heart.
So go, hey, go support Ryan, go support Dirty Mo Live, go to the NASCAR experience stage at 1045
on Friday and check it out. And then on Saturday the 20th, I'll be doing a live broadcast of the
download presented by Arby's in the U S Navy right at the victory lane stage at 530. This is going to
be the PM at the victory lane stage. So we'll have, uh, we'll have a few guests on on that show
as well. We hope to see you out there. Two live shows. If you're in San Diego, come see us. And
if you can't check it out from home on Dirty Mo Media's YouTube channel or wherever you get your
podcasts. All right, we'll see you tomorrow.
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About this episode
Red Bull’s NASCAR weekend in San Diego takes center stage, with talk of a new NASCAR edition can and the brand’s two-car presence—silver SVG and blue for Connor—plus what to expect from the track and the racecraft going in. The conversation also digs into driver prep: simulator time, iRacing updates, and how heat soak, tire grip, and long cautions can reshape strategy. Later, they look ahead to Sonoma and compare series differences, from etiquette to car feel.
As Dale Earnhardt Jr. prepares for the Prime Video broadcast of NASCAR’s inaugural trip to San Diego, he sits down with road racing experts Shane Van Gisbergen and Connor Zilisch. The guys visit the studio on the heels of the announcement that Red Bull will sponsor both of their cars at Naval Base Coronado. The deal also includes special edition cans of Red Bull featuring Shane and Connor. The guy’s chat about the impact Red Bull has had on motorsports and the importance of their return to NASCAR specifically.
Speaking of San Diego, the guys chat about the seemingly daunting course that has been laid out over Naval Base Coronado. Both Shane and Connor have spent time on the simulator to prepare, and they’ve both paid visits to the site as the course has been under construction. With a length of nearly three-and-a-half miles, the track will be the longest that Cup has competed on since their visit to Road America in 2022. Dale Jr. ponders what NASCAR’s protocol on caution periods will be, as laps under yellow will take nearly six minutes to complete. The interview also discusses growing pains in the Cup Series, what each driver learned during their time in the O’Reilly Series, and what is on the horizon for Trackhouse Racing.
Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia
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