Technician Happiness Starts the Moment They Walk In
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Term
ASE
ASE is a certification program for auto mechanics. If a shop hires ASE-certified techs, it usually means they’ve proven they know their stuff.
Concept
feedback without it sounding like you're bitching
They’re saying you can complain or point out problems, but you should do it in a way that doesn’t come off as just whining. That makes it more likely people will listen.
Concept
daily operations of technicians
This is basically how the shop runs day to day—how technicians diagnose and fix cars and how the work gets organized. Management choices can make that easier or harder.
Concept
disconnect between the shop and management
Sometimes the people running the business don’t fully understand what it’s like to work in the shop. When that happens, the decisions they make can make daily work harder for the technicians.
Company
DAF
DAF is a company that makes trucks, especially big commercial ones. The speaker is basically saying that in their area, the industry focus is mostly on trucks, not regular passenger cars.
Brand
Mercedes
Mercedes-Benz is a major German luxury automaker. Mentioning Mercedes alongside BMW highlights that the technician’s experience spans multiple European brands, which can require brand-specific diagnostic approaches and service procedures.
Brand
Land Rover
Land Rover is a British brand known for SUVs and off-road vehicles. Mentioning it alongside BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar suggests the technician handled a range of European drivetrains and electronics, not just one type of vehicle.
Brand
Jaguar
Jaguar makes luxury cars, originally from the UK. The point here is that the technician worked on Jaguar too, not just BMW.
Concept
state inspection
In some places, your car has to pass an official inspection to stay legal. Different states can have different standards.
Term
yearly inspections
Some places require cars to be checked regularly to make sure they’re safe and legal. The rules can be stricter in some areas than others.
Term
dust boots on the ball joints
Ball joints use rubber “dust boots” to keep dirt and moisture out of the joint. If the boots are torn or missing, the joint can wear faster and may become unsafe, which is why inspections may fail it.
Concept
technician shortage
A technician shortage means there aren’t enough trained people working as car mechanics. When that happens, shops struggle to hire and grow because they can’t get enough staff.
Company
ASC Connects
ASC Connects is a program that helps car repair shops find and keep good technicians. It helps connect shops with schools and gives shops information and tools to improve hiring and training.
Concept
technician pipeline
A technician pipeline is the process of getting new mechanics into the industry and keeping them working at shops. It includes recruiting, training, and helping people stay.
Term
open end will stretch and slip on the bolt
Cheap wrenches can bend a little and not grip the bolt tightly. Then they slip and you can damage the bolt head or hurt your hand. Better tools grip better and are less likely to slip.
Term
wiring diagrams
A wiring diagram is like a map for the car’s electrical system. It shows how different parts are connected, so you can track down where a problem might be.
Term
work instructions
Work instructions are the official “how to” steps for a repair. They help make sure the mechanic does it the right way and checks the right things.
Concept
retain your technicians
“Retain your technicians” means keeping your mechanics from quitting. Shops usually do this by improving pay, support, and working conditions so people want to stay.
Concept
tradesman
A tradesman is a skilled worker who learns a job through hands-on training. In cars, that often means mechanics or technicians who learn by doing and getting certified.
Concept
net promoter scores
Net Promoter Score is a survey number that shows how happy people are and whether they’d recommend something. A lower score usually means people feel less positive about the industry.
Concept
OEM
OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer—the company that builds the vehicles and sets warranty/recall policies. The speaker argues OEMs should better understand how warranty labor reimbursement impacts dealership technicians and service quality.
Term
advisor
A service advisor is the person who coordinates the repair with the customer and the shop. The question here is how the technician should communicate updates through that channel.
Concept
onboarding
Onboarding is how a new person gets trained when they start a job. It’s not just learning the work—it’s also learning where things are and how the shop runs so you’re not stuck or embarrassed to ask questions.
Brand
Caterpillar
Caterpillar makes big construction machines used on job sites. The speaker is using them as an example of an industry where people don’t expect to drive a machine to a dealership for service.
Concept
remote technicians
Remote technicians are mechanics who don’t work in a garage all day. They go out to where the customer is, so they need the right tools and support to do the job on-site.
Company
Stretch Labs
Stretch Labs is a company that helps people with stretching and mobility. In this story, they’re working with a dealership to help technicians feel better and move more comfortably.
Concept
growth mindset
A growth mindset means you believe you can get better over time. In a workplace, it usually shows up as coaching and training instead of just expecting people to already know everything.
Concept
employee happiness
The speaker connects “employee happiness” to better shop performance—faster, more timely handling of issues and more positive customer interactions. The underlying idea is that technician satisfaction improves execution, not just morale.
Term
KPIs
KPIs are “key performance indicators,” measurable metrics used to track how well a business or team is doing. In service and shop environments, KPIs might include throughput, quality, and customer satisfaction.
Term
P&L
P&L is basically a company’s scorecard for money—what it makes and what it spends. When people say they’re driven by P&L, they mean they focus heavily on profit numbers.
Company
Wrenchway
Wrenchway is the organization that runs and supports this podcast. They focus on helping people build careers in car-related fields like automotive work, diesel, and collision repair.
LIVE
There isn't ever a boring day. You will never be challenged. You're learning every day. You
come across something new every day. That's such a fantastic aspect of the industry.
Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ganinen from Wrenchway.
Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I am your host. Today I'm joined
by my good friend, Marko Zwannenberg, an industry veteran with decades of experience who's now
focused on helping technicians and shop leaders think differently about performance, mindset,
and growth. Marko is known for challenging conventional thinking and pushing conversations
that help move both technicians and shops forward. I've been looking forward to this one for a long
time, Marko. We have tried to do this for a long time and finally getting some time to do it,
but it's unfortunate as to why we have the time to do this. What happened to your hand?
Well, let's just say, help. I'd fallen, but I could get up. No, literally, I fell in my backyard
and I had ended up with multiple fractures in my distal radial.
Oh, oops. That's not a good way to get time off.
No, no, there's better ways, trust me. There's better ways. Well, as you're finally having a
time in the schedule to hop on and talk, I did want to start with maybe a few different stories
about you. We'll get into your background once we get through these, but we were able to meet
through the Tedding's fixed ops round table. I think was that the very first event in New York
City? That was the inaugural event shortly after Ted and I met for lunch in Orlando, and we came
up with this and I kind of forced his hand as he will tell you to do this. And so we had it in
the Seagrams building in his office. It was May of 19. So we've known each other for a while, Jay,
but yes, we were there for the inaugural round table. I joke with Ted on how cool that was
one. So that's not the joke, but the joke was more of just kind of looking back and laughing
a little bit. How many people were in that small conference room? We had people in every square
inch of that conference room, and I'll never forget, there was a lot of enthusiasm in that room
and the folks that were kind of managing the office space coming in and saying, hey, could
you guys keep it down in there? I think there were multiple times where they kept coming over
and telling us to be a little quieter. Yeah, that that office looked like a kind of spam left
behind in the car in the hot Florida day. We were busting at the scene. So yeah, we hadn't come in
probably three or four times. We were real close to being kicked out, but you know, as
automotive professionals, we are incredibly passionate about our professions and making
the industry better at that shows both in volume as in speech and volume as in the people that
show up for something like that. Yeah, it does. And we were fortunate to both be out in New York
again. I believe that was last summer. And funny part about that was we go through the roundtable
throughout the day. We go to a nice fancy restaurant after the roundtables are done.
And I had accident. I was sitting next to you guys at a table and I almost left my phone behind. I
was in a rush. I had to go back to meet up with somebody. And it was just this whole this whole
scheduling tightness where I had to I had to leave. Well, I almost left my phone behind. And
luckily here comes Marco telling me that, you know, hey, Jay, you forgot your phone. Well,
little did I know I get back. I don't even think I got back to the airport. And somehow I looked at
my photos. And I had some really nice photos of a bunch of people that were sitting at that table
on my phone. So it was it was it's a fun reminder of all the great times that we've had over the
years and just been a really cool community to be a part of. Yeah, that was fun. That was in
June at the at the Uber World Hat Chorus in the World Trade Center. What an event that was, you
know, leave it on school and get something like that done. But yeah, we saw your phone. So before
I was like, Hey, you know what, because you can almost access the camera, you know, locked and
off. So we took a few pictures, snapped a few selfies and like, Hey, Jay, here you go. So,
you know, like we're serious, but man's like we can have some fun too.
Yeah, well, as we're going through all of this, I think the one thing that I respect the most
about you has been your ability to have that that technician voice in a crowd of of people that maybe
aren't technicians, right? But really, really all have it in their best interest to make the lives
of technicians better. But having that real world boots on the ground experience truly brings a lot
to the table and maybe helps correct some perceptions about technicians and and gets a
technician at the table, right? And I think that is such an important piece to everything that you're
doing. I think you think I really appreciate you saying that, you know, but likewise, like you have
been at the forefront of technicians in the recruiting part of it at first with the, with
find the wrench and now what you're doing with your podcast and just working with ASE and local
colleges, etc. So I think we're both, you know, attacking the same problem from different angles.
And here we are, you're collaborating on that again. So but I think that it's, you know,
that calls me the golden voice of the technician or technicians to the stars.
I had a rough time in the beginning, when Ted asked me to be part of this, like, dude,
just the technicians, I was going to want to listen to me. But I think the biggest thing
that I've been able to bring to the industry is bring awareness of our problems, bring awareness
to technicians themselves put us in a better spotlight and make you realize what a technician
really is, both in our daily lives, but also in the education and the investment in tools,
for example, that leads up to it. But bringing us such a way that it is conversational, that it is
positively building up on an image and positively building upon perceptions of technicians,
and not make it a wine and crying, bitching and moaning fast.
That's, that's where you've really had a big impact is that you're able to give feedback
without it sounding like you're bitching, right? And I think that's, that's where a lot of technicians
can go wrong in the way they approach this, where if they're, if they're upset, a lot of times
we have a tendency to maybe sit back and wait until we're really, really mad and then approach it that
way, where you're not going to convey the message that you truly want to get across.
You've been able to do it in a way where you're helping almost translate a little bit, right,
to from technician speak to that vendor speak or to maybe dealer principle speak or, you know,
whatever, I think being able to do it in a way where it's not defensive, but also is really
telling of some of the, the kind of needs in our industry or room for improvement in our industry
has been a very unique thing to you and how you've been able to go about that.
I can appreciate that, but it also works the other way around. Like, I'm able to see the
management side of things and translate that back into, you know, the daily operations of
technicians. So we understand like sometimes managers make decisions that were like,
what? Why? So exactly. So if you can explain it in a way that it makes sense on a personal level
to them, that eventually this will impact their daily operations, the ease of daily operations
or their income in a positive way. I think that there's just a huge disconnect between the shop
and management. And let's face it, technicians, there's a reason why we're back there working
on cars instead of being advisors or management. I'm not saying that it's a generalized idea,
but most of us are all introverted. We are very good with linear thinking. We are very good with
our hands. We are very good at solving complex problems, but most of our problems, again,
are linear. A will lead to B. Whether it takes you a day, an hour or a month to get from A to B,
A will lead to B in pretty much a straight line. As we're dealing with people, there's a lot of
fuzzy logic involved. There's emotions. There's different levels of intelligence. There's
misunderstanding. There's communication. What I'm saying up here may make perfect sense to me,
but I say something and then you go like, wait a minute, it's like in my mind, that doesn't
make sense. So then I start to get, you know, irritated that you don't understand what I'm
saying. And here goes the waterfall and the downhill slope of communication.
And we'll talk a lot about that as we go through the podcast. The communication side is very easy
to talk about, very hard to do. So I am looking forward to diving into that part. But before we
do that, I want to get the whole Marco story. How did you get started in automotive and what led
you to be where you're at today? Funny thing. So I grew up, I was born and raised in the Netherlands,
educated as well. I wanted to be a designer. Well, if you know something about the Netherlands,
you know, we are very good at windmills, tulips and keeping the sea level out of our country. But
the automotive industry, we have no, well, we have DAF, which is the production line of big rigs.
But that's about it. Personnel vehicles, we have nothing anymore. So I wanted to become a designer.
In high school, I was told by the counseling teams, like, well, why don't you go to an
automotive technical college first, learn about cars, and then go from there. So like, all right,
that makes sense. So I did, I went to an automotive technical college and, you know,
leave it up to Europe to complicate things. So I honestly couldn't tell you what the US equivalent
is. It was more on an engineering level, but there was a lot of shop time as well.
Like they made us calculate valve flutter at 3,400 RPMs, and they only give you a few
knowns of an engine. So you sit there and calculate, calculate, like, like I said,
engineering level pretty much. But you also do business formation, personnel management,
bookkeeping, technical draw. So it's pretty all, it was a full time college for four years.
Three years in, you have the next counseling, the dean counseling coming up. So like, okay,
so what's your plan? Well, I want to be a designer. Well, come to find out,
there is no design school in the Netherlands, although behold, we're good to be because we
don't produce vehicles. So you can go to Germany, Italy, France, UK, US. So start to ask around,
and it ended up that was at least, and this was in the 90s, at least 100k a year,
private schools. So I taught to my parents, my parents always said like lessons, like whatever
education you want to do, we'll pay for it. Well, I told them this, and that did not include
room and boards, materials, books, etc. So like some like, we love you very much, not that much.
Okay. So I wanted to, I wanted to drop out, I wanted to go into business management risk analysis.
So go to the business side of stuff. So my, my dad's like, listen, like you're three years in,
more than three years in, you're like, almost at your final year. Why don't you finish this,
get your degree, so you at least have a degree to fall back on, and then go from there. So I did.
Apparently, I never made it to business school or, you know, risk analysis. And I started working
for a little bit in the Netherlands, and then I made the jump over to the US. And
I swear that if I would have stuck with my plan and did risk analysis and business dynamics,
etc. I would not have made it in the US, because I would have been a dime a dozen.
But here I came in, I was a BMW technician for a while. So not only that, but I can read, speak,
and understand German. So parts of the info manuals and parts of the digital information that
you get are in German. Well, I could read that. So I had a big heads up. So this is how I kind of
rolled into it. So I started my US tour, as I like to call it in 1997. After I spent a few years
working as a technician at a BMW place, and as a manager for a place called QuickFit, which is
kind of like a bitus. I was the area crisis manager since, you know, I wasn't married,
had no kids. So if a manager in the area was sick, I would get sent to this branch or that branch.
Had fun times with it. So then I ended up at the US, in the US, and I've stuck with
Highline Europeans for, well, pretty much my entire career, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Land Rover,
you name it, European car, I have one. And that had brought me here.
So walk me through that, that time, when you're in the Netherlands, and you're looking at moving
to the US, how do you figure out where you're going to, right? Because you look at the United States,
and you're basically throwing a dart at a map, aren't you? I mean, how did you end up and where
you ended up in the US? Okay, so my first stop on my US tour was Seattle.
I looked at the map, I looked at the globe, you know, because back then we still had those globes
if you could spin, you know, and we had real paper maps because yes, kids, Google, I'm older than
Google. So I thought like, well, here is my country, if I spin the globe, so this part of the US is
about the same line. I like to see, I like mountains, I like changes of, because that's
what I was used to. So I'm like, okay, so let's do Seattle, so I moved to Seattle.
And then I quickly got to find out that like, you know what, I really don't like the cold.
I really don't like Seattle's beautiful. I love to go visit again. But then I ended up in
Dallas, Texas after that. Oh, that was the opposite. You pull your car out of the garage at 7am in
the morning in summertime, it's already like 107 degrees. So I did that for a while, I've
lived in Oklahoma City, I have lived in Atlanta, and I've been in Naples since 2008.
Wow. That's, that is really fascinating to go basically all the way across the country
from where you started, right? About as far away as you possibly could from where you initially
started. And it's interesting because I've really not known you other than being in Naples, right?
Where you're the entire time I've known you have been there. But what a journey. The other question
I was going to ask off of that is, you had probably a lot different educational experience than what
we have in the United States. I'm interested to see, are there things that we could learn from
that education system and how you were brought up versus what we traditionally do in the US?
That's a tough question, because you have to think about it too. I was done with college
in the 90s. So I'm sure that- Changed a lot. Exactly. And I haven't been in the Netherlands,
I haven't put any kids to school there. So I honestly couldn't tell you what the educational
system there is now compared to how the educational system is here. It is a lot stricter, I can tell
you that. If the majority of a class fails a test, we don't adjust the test requisites to get kids to
pass. You fail, you fail. Sorry, should have paid attention, should have studied harder.
Just like with getting your driver's license, it took me almost two years.
First of all, you can't start until you're 18. You have to do your theoretical first,
which I failed three times before I finally got it right. But there are three questions,
there are a bunch of bastards when it comes to that. So finally got that, then you have to take
driving lessons with an instructor, which is not cheap. So they are so strict there that I
remember a friend of mine, he did his driving test, everything went fine. They came back to the
examination building in the parking lot, parked the car, everything was fine, put the handbrake on,
yes we had actually like hand brakes back then, got out of the car, they walk in and it's like,
I'm sorry you failed. But everything went fine. It's like, you did not check your rear view mirror
before you opened your door. That is how strict it is in Europe to get a driver's license. So it
took me probably the better part of two years and a lot of money to get my license. Oh my goodness.
Right, just to give you an idea, you know, just like the yearly inspections on vehicles,
like here you have states that barely do with state inspection. Over there you got a cracker,
windshield, sorry. You failed. No dust boots on the ball joints anymore, you fail, too much rust,
you fail. It's strict. It is very strict. That is interesting. When is the last time you were back?
That was December of 2000. Oh my goodness, 26 years. Yeah, yeah. Do you have family over there?
Yes, yeah, I'm the only one that moved over here. Really? Just by myself. Yes, so my parents still
live there, all my aunts and uncles and cousins. Yeah, I'm an only child so I have no siblings
there, but yeah, everyone else is there. Have you thought about going back?
Think about it, yes. Yeah, but you know, the down graph also is like the US way of life is you get
10 vacation days a year and traveling is expensive and you know, there's things you're just going
to have your days for, but it's always on the planning. It's just really hard to realize it,
because again too, it's expensive, you know, you're not going to go for just three or four days,
you're going to go for a few weeks. So what am I going to do with my dog? What am I going to do
with my house in the meantime? So there's a lot to think about, but the good thing is thanks to
technology nowadays, like we use WhatsApp a lot to communicate, because that's easy and it's cheap,
so we do stay, definitely we stay in touch a lot. I'm pretty sure that my parents will be watching
this. I'm on my dad. Exactly, they'll be watching this, they're big fans, so they do exactly like,
like, oh, be on a podcast with Jake, oh, did you meet him? Yeah, exactly, they tell exactly.
That is wild to me, and just the differences in how you were brought up and really acclimating to
something completely different when you came to the United States. I give you so much credit for
that part, right, to have kind of that fortitude to take that leap and really a leap of faith,
where I'm assuming you didn't know anybody or you didn't know a lot of people over here,
you just come over and start life over. Pretty much, yeah. I had pretty much a backpack,
some suitcases and some money in my pocket, and that was about the extent of it. I had some of
my belongings shipped over, but you know, I didn't have much. So no, that's really how it started,
then just accumulated and learned from there on. How old were you when you went to Seattle?
22 or 23. Oh my goodness, I cannot imagine. I mean, just coming and trying to make friends and
being in a new land and just going back to that time, I have to imagine there's some level of
anxiety, isn't there? Like when you're coming over? Or just excitement? It was mostly excitement.
Yeah, of course, you contemplate things that could go wrong, but I've always been one of these
people that, you know what, let's just do it. We'll figure it out. What's the worst that can
happen? You go back to what you were previously doing. So I could always go back to the Netherlands.
It's not like they kicked me out. I wasn't exiled. So I could always go back to the Netherlands,
or since now it's a European Union, I'm still a citizen of the Netherlands. I'm a permanent resident
in the new US, but I can go wherever in Europe, whatever European countries, part of the European
Union, I can go live there and work there. So there's options galore, but you know, you hit
married life eventually, and you have to start a family, you have a house, and you kind of ground
yourself more. But I've always been one of these people that, you know what? It's like, yeah, of
course, not stupid stuff, like namesome stupid, like no evil conneval stuff. But I've always been
like, all right, you know what? Let's do this. We'll figure it out. We'll learn as we go and get
as prepared as you can. But the problem is, if you start thinking about things, you will think
yourself out of it 99% of the time. Absolutely. Just, you know, not to quote a certain company,
but just do it. Yeah. So fascinating to me that entire part of your life.
Every shop, dealership, and business in our industry depends on great technicians.
Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships, and lack of trustworthy
workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan higher and grow. That's where ASC Connects
comes in. Created in partnership with Wrenchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically
for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools,
empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting, retention, and performance.
With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist,
start building relationships, and support the programs that educate our future technicians.
You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits, and labor rates through the industry
data exchange so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get
proven strategies for leadership, employee development, and shop management through members
only guides, templates, and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a
stronger, smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link
in the show notes. Now, as you get into working on cars, how did that go? Did it come pretty
natural to you? Did it take you some time to kind of work up your skill level? How did that look?
Well, of course, you know, you have to work up your skill level of things that I am able to do now
pretty much with no pun intended one hand type on my back. But it takes time to acquire the knowledge,
the skills, the muscle memory, and the mind memory on especially with repetitive jobs that you do
quite a lot. But you can't get complacent on that. You know, don't give yourself an ego,
because you will run into something that you've seen a hundred times. And a hundred and first
time, you're like, Oh, I know this, and you do your usual diagnosis and repair, and it didn't
fix it. So always be humble about your, your knowledge, always be humble about your experience.
But yeah, it takes time. And of course, there's the collection of tools along the way to you
start off cheap, you know, you use the other the big box tools, etc. You start to notice that
yeah, they're good, but not the greatest. You also don't have to go to the most
expensive lines either. There's, there's something for everyone in every place. Not
everything has to be brand name, but some things I would highly recommend that you buy brand name,
because they're proven and they're good, like you buy a cheap set of wrenches, the open end,
the box and sorry, the open end will stretch and slip on the bolt, and that either going
across to your knuckles, or you pulled the strip and now you screwed. So
like everything, it takes time to build the experience. And I that's why I've always stayed
with European vehicles, because mostly German, they're pretty equal in how they're put together.
But the one thing that the Germans have, especially like working with Mercedes for
dozen years, their diagnostic capabilities, their wiring diagrams, their component locators,
and their work instructions are fabulous, absolutely fabulous. They put as much thought
into that as any actual car. That's a different perspective in general too, because I think
a lot of times you'll come up, I remember going to tech school and you almost get horror stories
about trying to diagnose European cars, because if you had that advantage with being able to read
German, and I think a lot of us that grew up here, really didn't have that. I think
being able to look at a schematic and understand how they've put that together, it is such a
huge advantage for you coming up in the industry and understanding how things are put together
that way. Whereas a lot of the folks in the US, if they're not brought up with that, we'll just
look at that and say, well, that's really complicated, or that's really hard to understand.
And I think that's something that is a perception in the US that for those that have gone the Euro
route, I think really, really like it. I think they like being able to try and comprehend some of
that. So yeah, that's an interesting take on your part, and something that I think is a difference
between a tech born and raised here versus what your upbringing was. Just that's a really cool
perspective. Absolutely. I brought my born and raised mentality with me because I was born and
raised on the European cars. That's where people born and raised here were born on forts and dodges,
and I have the same way. I look at those and I go like, I remember for the first time working on a
C system on a domestic vehicle, and I'm looking for the expansion valves like, no, we have an
orifice tube. You have a what? Or I had to ask one of my shop foreman one time, what the hell is a
pushrod engine? It's like, we don't have those. We have overheads. What is a pushrod engine? So
there are such... That's what makes this whole industry so interesting. There will never be
a boring day. Absolutely never be a boring day. Whether you work at one brand OEM dealership or
you work at an independent store and work pretty much on anything that has either wheels or a motor,
there is never a boring day. You will forever be challenged. You're learning every day. You come
across something new every day. That's such a fantastic aspect of this industry. It really is,
and I think that's a really good transition to our topic of conversation today, which is a lot of
that technician happiness and making sure that we're driving the industry in the right direction.
And for those shops that are listening to this, the discussion about how you retain your technicians
and how you find more technicians to come into your operation. And I do want to ask,
how did that shift from you focused on your daily life in a bay to how do I make a greater
impact on this industry? What was it that you saw out there where you're like,
I could add value to the greater whole of this entire thing?
Well, first of all, I am so over it. I'm so sick and tired of hearing everybody cry,
why won't I complain? There's a technician crisis. Oh, it's a source of technicians.
There's really not. This is not just for automotive. Like, Mike Rob will tell you that it's across
anything in this related to working with your hands, like the trace professions,
because we have glorified going to college. We have glorified from as young as your kids are,
you get these offers for a save up for college. Okay, is there an offer save up for toolbox?
How about that? No, there's not. So it is a whole different perception than with the
the internet came up really strong over the last 10 plus years. Everybody wanted to be an
influencer and everybody wanted to be a disruptor. Well, those are the 30 year olds now that still
live in their mom's basement and are getting anywhere because guess what, you're one of many
millions. But technicians, whether they work on escalators, big rigs, combines or cars,
we are needed. We're not a luxury. We are a must. People look up to like a police officer or a
fireman and absolutely hats off to the first responders, guys. Thank you so much for all
you do. But how did you get to the fire? You didn't drag a bucket of water with you, you took
a nice little stroll, did you? No, you were the highly complex machine that was all the parts
were delivered by moving parts to the factory where tradesmen put it together. And they have
tradesmen keeping it running. So everything revolves around these hands. So this is where I
am just so over it, like, no, no, no, like, wait a minute, this has been created by public perception,
glorification of college educations, which yes, we do need dollars, we do need CPAs, we do.
Absolutely. I'm not saying stop going to college, but there needs to be a mix. Absolutely, there
needs to be a mix. Like, you go to college, you take your degree, you have two $300,000 worth
of debt right now, and you can't find a job. I open up LinkedIn any day of the week, and there's
people looking for jobs to three years running. While you can take a job as a tradesman, and
within a few years, you can easily make over six feet. Absolutely, you could easily do that. So
my shift behind this over the last, well, six to eight years or so, the lessons like,
we can fix this, it's not going to be overnight. And we have to think outside of the box. It's not
about money necessarily. I go to find Sean Kingry, I made him almost fall out of his chair when I
said it's not about the money. You can pay me a thousand bucks an hour, but if I need medications to
calm my mind and my anxieties just so I can go to work, it's not worth it. It all revolves around
culture, culture locally as in the dealership or in the workplace, if you talk about other trades,
and culture around people working with their hands around the trades. We're not dirty people.
We are the most educated. If you look at the training behind the technician,
the certifications, their investments in their tools. As a salesman, did you have to buy your own
desk, your own computer, your own demos? No. Me, if I would sell everything in my toolbox today,
I would have myself a really nice boat at a new truck to pull it. But we forget about that.
Yeah. And that leads me to the next piece of this, because you and I have been aligned,
I think, from the start in terms of the want to see this industry move into a better direction.
Specifically how it relates to technicians. But then we fight that other side too,
where we had just gotten back our voice of technician survey and really had
kind of depressing news in that our net promoter scores and industry went down again.
And so when we're looking at this and we're out here championing all of the good about the industry,
and one of the parts that I struggled to even get my head around is I think we're moving in the
right direction, but there's still some discontentment amongst technicians themselves, right? And
trying to figure out, how do we get these shops, these dealers on the same page as technicians,
and kind of feel like we're rowing in the same direction? Because at times it feels like maybe
there is that little bit of, I mentioned earlier about you being a translator for technicians to
manage been a lot of times. And at times it feels like that communication is not happening. And we
saw that in the survey where we're still struggling with basic communication with very levels of,
I think there's always concern about outside perception of who technicians are. And just
kind of at times, to kind of echo what you were saying about being sick of it, it's that
a lot of times we'll have the negative narrative online kind of outweigh so many of the positives
that you and I see the direction of the industry moving. Do you think there's still some obviously
areas of improvement to really taking care of our own and making sure that we are taking care
of these technicians that we continue to elevate how technicians are treated?
Oh, absolutely, Jay. Absolutely. I mean, how much time do we have? But let's start with something
of first. Like, you can't make everybody happy. You're not a taco. It's not going to happen.
Parts of management may not always fully align with the shop, and parts of the shop may not
always fully align with management. Like, I think I'd mentioned to you a while back is like the
down draft is of technicians being more listened to right now. Some of us just think like, oh,
we're being hurt, and the bitching does not stop. Some of us just like to just complain about
everything. The rain is too wet. The sky is too blue. You're just going to have to get over the
part that it's not going to be a hundred percent on both sides. You know, we're not the Hallmark
channel. It's not going to happen. But there's definite things that we can still do. It also
involves the technicians themselves, kind of accepting like, you know what, this is the
role I chose. This is my work, which let me start by doing that a little bit. I'm a big fan of
do people actually know their purpose within the organization?
Like, when is the last time during an employee review, for example, that your management
showed you a piece of paper that actually completely outlines your responsibilities?
We're really not given that. We've got a general idea, but we operate in a great fog. There's no
abstract. It's abstract. There's no direct view of like, okay, here's six responsibilities.
This is what I need you to do. And for these six responsibilities, let's just say I pay you,
you're starting the number out there, so don't get mad at me, people, $30 an hour.
Okay, so basically you get $5 per responsibility. Well, you start noticing that you're monitoring
Jay working and Jay does not do his MPIs because Jay feels that he needs to get paid for that.
Okay, so I gave you six responsibilities. You only do five. Do you still feel that I should
pay you $30 an hour? You're missing a responsibility. Now you're worth $25 an hour,
which that's another thing that absolutely puzzles me. Why are we fighting MPIs guys?
You want to make up sales, right? So document your up sales.
Second of all, it's an insurance policy. If someone you spend, like we go off European
vehicles, $2,500 on the service. Lo and behold, everything is done. The car goes down the road,
100 miles from your dealership, the car gets flat tire, rolls into another dealership,
and they're all of a sudden hitting him up for, oh, he's like, you need tires, you need brakes,
you need tissues. I just spent $2,500 on the service. They look back, the report card was not
filled up. Now they don't trust you at all. It's insurance, it's retention, it's trust building
in you personally as a technician. And the one thing that you want as a technician, you want to
start being more forward with video MPIs, with picture MPIs, you want to be the face of the
technician to that customer. So the next time a customer comes in, it's like, hey, I want Jay to
work on my car. So we built on it that way too. So another thing that technology is rolling really,
really, really fast. The influence of AI, video inspections, what they're doing in the service
drive with measurement applications as the car even comes through to measure the tire profiles
or scan the whole vehicle, like crazy, like exactly. So that on top of the, the technical
motive, technical technicalities of the cars, how fast all the in the electronics in the car
just keep moving forward at a great next speed pace. It is really hard for us to keep up with that.
So you want to throw now more stuff at us as well. Yeah, you're going to have a problem. But
I also truly believe that we're going to need a lot more manufacturer involved. We're going to
need them to look at this and go like, okay, listen, because manufacturers are really good
in pushing all the costs off on dealerships. So what are dealerships doing? They have a lot of
unapplied labor, because they still want to keep their technicians happy. So a warranty job pays
0.9. But I'd like to see someone do it in 0.9. So it takes even a good technician, say an hour
and a half. Well, that's good technicians are like, dude, like what? So the dealership to keep
these people happy, they come up at 0.6. So that's 0.6 of unapplied labor times, if it's a recall,
times how many technicians times how many jobs. So I truly believe that at the end of the day,
it is incredibly important for the manufacturers to realize that yes, we're all franchise dealers,
I understand we all operate under different laws and rules and regulations from state to state.
And then whoever owns the dealership throws their own wash load of stipulations. But as a
as an OEM, you have to understand that the dealership to technicians, we are the ambassadors of your
brand. We will, they say like variable ops will sell the first car, fixed ops will sell the next
nine, 10, 12. So it is very important that we get more involvement from the manufacturers that
they really start to realize that we are a necessity in your machine of rent recognition,
rent loyalty and revenue. So many things I could pull out of there, right? And the very first one
I want to talk about was the part where you're talking about clarity in role or clarity and
expectation of a technician because you're absolutely right, excuse me, absolutely right in
that I think a lot of times we bring a technician on and we put them into the, you know, the buckets
if you're ABC or master, you know, you're putting technicians into buckets. But without that lack
of clarity, it really becomes go to your stall will get you will dispatch you appointments and
you're going to fulfill these appointments. When you look at that and from your, maybe you have the
technician goggles on now or the technician hat on now of what are you looking for in that clarity
of my responsibilities because it really can be easy of okay, I'm expected to diagnose these cars,
I'm expected to, you know, do these inspections. When you're breaking down the clarity of a role,
what helps a technician understand or what takes it to the level where you do get on the same page
and you can provide that clarity from a management perspective? I think that first of all, we are
absolute champions in completely ghosting people when it comes to onboarding. Like I said, you know,
we're like all bells and whistles when it comes down to the hiring process, you know, golden
mountains are being promised. And then when they come walking into the shop, it's like, oh, yeah,
there's toolbox. There's parts, the advisors are over there. So yeah, here's your first ticket.
Okay, now what? What can we be clear on what does a typical day look like? How does the workflow here
go? Do we spend the morning's diagnosing and the afternoon's repairing? Or do we spend Monday and
Tuesday diagnosing and then the rest of the week repairing? How do we build the days? Does dispatch
for a shop foreman decide how the day is structured? Or is that your job? If it's your job, then we need
to now teach these guys active time management or priority management, if you will. The way I handle
the car, like I have a car come in, let's say it's got a campaign, which is software. So no parts
needed a service, a complaint about vibration in tires, the cars in warranty, but out of the warranty
for the tires, that's cost them a pay. And then it's got a warranty complaint on it for, let's say,
a check engine. I pulled this car in, I do my MPI, I get my codes together, and I diagnose the vehicle.
Once that is done, cars out of my bank. Not until I have an okay from the customer,
will I pull it back in and actually make sure that I have all the parts ready that I've been
ordered, etc. So now that opens me up for the next one. This is one of the ways to do it,
the only down draft of that is if this is on a Monday, so I spent Monday and Tuesday doing that,
come Wednesday, Thursday, now all of a sudden, you know, parts are starting to show up. I get the
okay, so now I'm being backlog. So we need to also look at it from a scheduling point of view,
if that's the way your shop rolls, schedule lighter for commit to end of the week.
That way, you don't have to push people off like, oh, we still haven't gotten to your cars,
like I dropped it off Tuesday, well, we still haven't gotten to it, sorry, because we don't want to do
that either. So I think a clear structure of how the shop operates would be fantastic. Also,
let them know what days did the tool truck show up? There's an idea, what day did the tool truck
show up? What is the average time for getting parts? Do you request parts electronically
through some sort of MPI product that you use on your computer? Do you actually walk into parts and
handwritten on the back of the RO is what you want? Do they bring the parts out to you?
Will they be delivered to you? Will I be kept updated on whether or not a part is ordered
and or back ordered? All important information to have. How do I communicate with the advisor?
Is it electronically through in-house email or, again, an MPI program? Do I go see the advice?
You know, it's things like that. There's so much to a workday of a technician,
which often than not, we miss informing. So now I'm standing there, losing time,
looking around like, even as a season technician, when I started at Naples luxury imports,
first of all, I switched brands. I went from German vehicles, Mercedes Benz for 12 years,
for crying out loud, to Jaguar Land Rover. Well, the Chef Forman told me one thing,
it's like, forget everything you know. Man, did that apply? When it comes to diagnostic,
diagnostic JLR is in the Stone Age compared to Mercedes Benz. So everything is different on
these cars, the way they're built, the way they're put together, the way the diagnostics are, the
warranty compliance, all that sort of fun stuff is completely different. But I was able to wrap
my mind around it and get it going. But if you, my point is that I came in as a season technician,
new to the brand, but I knew what I was doing. But even I had trouble
understanding for the first week or so, exactly how do we roll here. So write it down, make it a,
you can hand this out to all new technicians, make it a good flow chart of like, hey,
just this isn't this, give the information of the parts on it, how we do things, have them just
walk around or be guided by the Chef Forman or an appointed person in the, in the shop
to structure their workdays instead of just going like, Hey, here's a bag, here's a car.
Let me know we need something.
You're spot on. I think that is an area for improvement for most dealerships, most shops
in general. I think the, we assume too much. I've been guilty of this that you are,
when you onboard somebody that they're going to get the hang of it and that it's going to come along.
But I think we forget how awkward that first day is in general, that first week is in any job.
When you go to a new position, your first time meeting a lot of the people and you're just,
you know, maybe even nervous to ask a question, even if you've been around for a long time,
you know, where the, where is this specific special tool at where, you know, just talking,
even you were talking through process. That's another one that comes to mind, like,
what is the process for special tools and by needing to check them out. Am I, can I just
go grab one off the shelf, you know, just, you're absolutely right in having not only,
I think the proper onboarding, but just a general guidance to how the shop operates and
understanding there would help so many technicians, so many shops out and cutting some of that friction
out of that, that initial part of being a part of your team. And as you're talking, I'm like,
my goodness, there's so many things that I've done over the years where I wish I would have
done them differently just based on this conversation, because you're absolutely right,
you're 100% right. Well, you know, it's unfortunate, but it's like I said, it's
things that you look at on hindsight. So if we can step in and make it current,
because let's not forget one thing, as the whole automotive industry combined, we are
extremely good at being reactive. Proactive is something that we have never heard of, like,
you know, everybody's not renting and raving about the mobile service. Oh my God, we're acting like
we have just, wow, like we pulled the sword out of the rock. Okay, how about technicians,
plumbers, HVAC technicians, like, if you want to know about mobile service, hello,
not even that, let's bring it a step closer to home. How about all the heavy equipment people?
You don't drive a 40 ton caterpillar over the road to your local dealership,
they go out and do it, rain or shine. But now we're like, oh my God, it's like, this is, wow.
Awesome, guys. Awesome. Have you heard of the internet yet? Are we there?
It is funny because I had quite a bit of my career spent in the equipment world,
and we had remote technicians. And it worked great, right? They were very well equipped to do
what it was that they did. And the funny part was over time, I think you started to understand
the difference between those techs that really enjoy being on the road, and it really was a
different job altogether than like a technician in the shop, right? And so finding the right people
that feel comfortable being out, talking to customers and having that pressure put on you,
and maybe there's a customer staring over your shoulder, and being able to do it in a clean
way where you're not spilling oil all over the place, right? There's just so many elements
that go into it. But you're absolutely right. I think there are so many things we could do as an
industry to take from other or learn from other industries and how they do it. Mobile service
is a great, great one to look at. But there are other things in terms of, you know, I know in
over the years and as wrenchways has evolved, is like, you see things that maybe tech companies
for their employees that you can introduce and do simple stuff for your team that makes them
feel appreciated. And just, you know, I think I always kind of equate it to hearing Kobe Bryant
talk about how he'd work with other superstar NBA players in learning a different move in an
offseason and really perfect it. But he was using that, I think the same analogy works for other
industries in how we could look at other industries, identify what they're doing really good and try
to take elements of that to use it in our daily operations. So that's, that's a solid point as
well. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, you know, building on that, like I have said for many years
that we need to look beyond, beyond financial rewards to motivate people to retain, retain
people and to attract people. Like, probably about a week and a half ago, I saw this, this post on
LinkedIn, from this dealership in elections, dealership in the Dallas area, they had invited
the company stretch labs in to work with their technicians and technicians only.
Well, we work with our bodies the entire time. Most of our time, like
we do not have, you know, the big bulking most of us do, you know, we're not done,
they have the big muscles, we don't have the big friends, we're more of the calisthenics kind of
people. We can extend humongous amounts of force, but our arms stretch out, wrist turns outward and
having to turn in because that's the way you have to reach to get to the ball. But most of our time
is spent like this. So this here is extremely tight. Like for me to stretch like this,
painful. So this company came in, worked with this dealership. And I was so intrigued by it
because this is something that I have been hammering on for a long, long time. It's quality
of life, not just for production, but for overall happiness of your people and being able to move
still once they retire. So I actually reached out to the guy that did it from stretch labs,
and I had a meeting with him last Friday, Mike Thornton from stretch labs. Fantastic conversation.
I am 100% behind this. They are trying to roll out this, this program. And I've told them,
it's like, how can I help? How can I help you do this? Because the way they approach this,
because I asked them, for example, like, do you guys work with posture too?
Are you correct? Like, absolutely. When we see you working on a car, but we think that, you know,
anatomically wise, there could be a better posture for you. So you don't have to go like,
oh, you know, like wider stance lowers you down, you don't have to simple things like that. So
dealerships who will start embracing those kinds of concepts, like funny story, like my dealership,
we have a local ice cream company called Scoops. Fantastic ice cream. Nice place. They have an
ice cream truck. Our GM has this ice cream truck stopped by the shop, the dealerships, every
third Thursday of the month, between one and two, everybody go get ice cream.
It's just little things like that. Sounds so silly. You can ask a, you know, if you're familiar
with Robert Michelangelo from the Carter Myers automotive group. Well, years ago, I said something
about cupcakes. How hard is it for you to remember a birthday or an anniversary date of your
tax or your parts people? Let's, because let's not forget about the parts people because they're
in the same boat as we are. Probably even more because we talk more about technicians than parts
people. So show up with a nice cupcake, not from your local grocery store, but from a bakery.
Show up with a nice cupcake. Well, he started doing that. And now everybody's like cupcake day.
What did they do? Your $5 investment boosts culture and motivation all across. It's so
many of the little things that we can do to make quality of life better, to motivate people on an
individual level to perform better, first of all, for themselves. Once they start performing better
for themselves, because it's easier to get someone to motivate to be better for themselves than for
a company, you know, because we're only a company, whatever they don't care about me. So it's easy
to motivate on an individual level, but a whole bunch of individual people that are motivated
to perform so much better that it automatically translate into cost reduction in terms of turnover,
in terms of absentees. And then it also raises your bottom line. Now, when it comes to, like we're
talking about onboarding earlier on, I've been recently working with friends of yours, you know,
you know, pretty well, Doc van Tijn and, sorry, Doc, I mentioned your name here.
Doc van Lentie, I got it, from Mentor van Tijn. Fantastic program. So I'm really trying to help
them understand the automotive industry better and work with them on rolling this program out.
Same with the guys from Gotrego, like Anthony and Kobe, they have a fantastic product as well.
As a matter of fact, I think two of them, you guys are a match made in heaven working on that too.
So there's so many little things that we can do to not make people feel lost when they walk into
a store. There are so many little things that we can do to make people personally feel appreciated,
respected, and understood within an organization. And whether you're a mom or pop store with four
people, or you're a massive dealership with hundreds and hundreds of employees that works on
multiple shifts, it can be done. And it is being done, like Ed Roberts with the Bosar
with Tolly Williams and the Nilo Company, Tom Verzinski with Westher, Robert Mikes with CMA.
They are the people that get it. They are the people that are instilling these kind of fundamentals
into their organizations and they're growing and they're having success. So there's a big difference
and you will hear me say this a lot, there's a big difference between management and leadership.
The dealerships with the leadership, they're doing fantastic people. They don't have an issue,
they've got people knocking on the door to work there. The places that are managed,
it's an eye mentality, eye as in a few higher ups and the rest, whatever, we can replace you.
Yeah, all of those people you mentioned, I think also kind of, they not kind of, they do
have a growth mentality. They're always trying to get better. And I think a part of that is
actually listening to their teams and trying to adapt and adjust to really make themselves
that attractive employer and really just make it where it's more fun to be at work.
I think sometimes it's a bad word or a bad, it has a bad connotation to like having fun at work
because it means that you're not doing as much work, but I think it's quite the opposite, right?
I think if you enjoy going to work, you enjoy what you're doing, that it really can equal a huge
production and it can equal greater satisfaction and just more comfort in being out in the shop.
And the one thing I'd really like to really try to understand and I think some of the
some of the way we're going with the ASE Connects project we're working on is
trying to get data because I'd really like to understand how many texts, some of the disgruntled
texts, do you not like working on cars or do you not like the business that you're working for
in maybe some of the environment that you're in? Because I truly get the sense that even as cars
get more complex, people still like working on cars. They like that. And going back to your
earlier point about taking care of your body, I think we're getting more proactive in being able
to take care of our bodies and eating right and drinking more water rather than soda and like
all the really, really simple things to take care of your body over time that will allow you to have
a really nice retirement once it's all said and done. My hope is that that technician that's out
there is able to lift their grandkids later on in life and play with them. I don't want them to go
into retirement crippled. I want them to have really, really good lives. It does take technicians
being open to maybe going through a yoga class. I know we had a guest on a couple of years ago,
Andrew Batenhorst, who's on the collision side at a dealership in California. He was working
with his technicians on yoga and trying to get them to loosen up. And to his credit, he didn't
force it on everybody. He just kind of said, Hey, if you're open to this, this is something that
could help you with the extension of your career. But getting back to the initial point, having
leadership that is open minded, that does have that growth mindset, and actually cares, they
don't just say they care, they actually care. I truly think that is what is really helping us
make a shift in this industry. We need more people like that, right? We need more people to
actually do things rather than talk about things. And I think we're moving in the right direction.
All of the people that you just mentioned are people that are very much moving it in the right
direction. We just need to keep amplifying their voices. And hopefully the rest of the industry
takes note. The good thing is that leaders foster leaders. So the people that are currently
working with the tallies with the mixes with the toms and the ads, they are fostering more leaders.
The good thing also is that eventually, and it's happening every day, you see it like dealerships
that are being managed, they are going belly up, they're in trouble, they are being taken over,
not all the time, but more often not, they are being taken over by dealership groups that have
leadership. So eventually, not all of them, but you're always going to have the big corporate
places that just have the resources to keep throwing money at a place. And it's more to them,
it's about selling the car, not after the fact, but a fair amount of managed dealerships will be
taken over by dealerships with leadership. Then the people that are being fostered under these
people that we were just talking about will go to those dealerships. And in that case, they will
foster more of the culture and they will foster more leaders. So it's kind of like, it's almost
like a leadership epidemic, if you will, within the great way. It's really interesting to see
this happen. Now, on your point about the disgruntled technician, and you know, this is
something that concentrating on with my consulting route is like, there's often more to the story
than you think. It's not just work. If they are disgruntled, you got to dig a little deeper,
you got to get into a little bit more of a personal level, which as your employer, as the boss,
you may be crossing HR grounds that you're not supposed to. While me as a hired, contracted
consultant, I am at a different route. We could actually uncover what is actually going on. Why
does this person not feeling that the purpose is being fulfilled? What is the issue? And sometimes
you'll find that it just can't be helped. Sometimes you find that sometimes you just have to cut your
losses. And I find this hilarious how dealerships hold on to this one person that produces like
80 hours a week, but there's a cancer to the shop. They hold on to him. Well, that as a trickle down
effect, other technicians in the shop will go, Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, Jay gets the customer pay
one again. And I'm stuck with so the cancer is killing the culture. What they don't understand
is like, you fired that guy, you didn't lose 80 hours. You lost a negative equity on your culture.
There's three other guys standing in place, ready to take on that work, eat it up and produce a
multitude of those 80 hours. So it's just puzzling to me as to why do we hold on to the,
we've always done it this way mentality. So dangerous. Let's move forward. Let's dig deeper.
Let's get into the out one of industry is a people business. It's got nothing to do with cars,
got nothing to do with parts. It is a people business from your customer on the variable side,
who is the same customer as the fixed upsides. There's only one customer you dealership people
learn that as one. But like with the mobile service, for example, the one thing that's
important to these people is their time. They don't want to sit at your dealership for hours,
it's their time, but it's a people business. You get these people to come in, you react to them,
you've, you actually cultivate a culture around being respective of your customer's time,
which then leads to culturing technicians in a positive way to handle whatever comes up in a
timely manner. And then we'll all just foster it will grow, it will grow and become better and
better and better. And before you know it, you have nothing with smiling faces standing around.
Of course, ideally, I know, but you will see there's a massive increase in just overall
employee happiness, which that when you know how it is, you walk into a place where people are
unhappy, you feel it. Oh, immediately. You walk into a place where people are respected and culture
is good. You get this. Yeah, absolutely. No matter what business it is.
I think that's a great point to end on. It is about the people and there's so much value in
that in a world where we're so driven by a P&L and by KPIs. At the end of the day, it is about the
people because with that purpose, like you've talked about a lot. A lot of that stuff comes
together naturally if you're driving the people side, right? And you're driving that employee
happiness and all of the things that you desire can still happen. But you do need to really,
really focus on those people because that at the end of the day is what's going to make all of that
other stuff happen and successful for you without having the turnover, without having the bad culture
and all of the negatives about our industry. I think in general, you talked about it, the
leadership side, the better leadership we have, the less disgruntled people we're going to have in
our industry. And we just need to keep, keep amplifying that, keep getting more leaders into
the industry and putting proper training in front of them. And not, you know, we talked about
onboarding for technicians. Some of that can be said for management too, right? Especially
service management where you get thrown into the fire and expected to know what to do. And so
more mentorship on that side and more ability to do exactly what you're set out to do, Marco,
which is identify some of these problems and really hit them at their core rather than try to
dance around them. And everything that you're doing is really moving the industry in a positive
direction. Well, thank you, Jay. I really appreciate it. And, you know, like, we couldn't do it without
people like you, rookie, bringing it to the attention of people and the reach that you have
and all the work you've been doing over the years. So keep it up, buddy. Appreciate you.
Appreciate that, my friend. We do have our last set of fun questions. So non business related
questions that we've got to ask you. These are just, just fun ones. But the first question
is what was your first car? A 1984 Honda Prelude. Really? All right. That's a nice first car.
Right. I bought it for 10 bucks. 10 bucks. Morning, personal night owl.
Well, that's a tough one. I wake up early. I'm probably more productive in the morning,
but I do enjoy my leisure evening. So professionally morning, personally evening,
night owl, now come about 10 o'clock obviously. So probably morning. Yes.
I like that. A good piece of advice or best piece of advice you've ever received?
Okay, so this goes back to pretty much my first, first experience in college. The
the professor came walking in. Hey, you're still like, listen, guys, I'm going to give you the
secret of success. Find something nobody wants to do and get good at it. You'll never go hungry.
That's really good advice. Really good life advice in general. Well, I tell you what, this,
I knew this hour would go fast. It's gone way faster than I even imagined. It's always a pleasure
talking with you. Again, we, I think, see eye to eye on a lot of the industry and a lot of the
ways that we should be moving as an industry. So I hope this isn't the last time we record a podcast.
I can't believe it's taken this long to record the first podcast, but truly, truly a fan of
everything that you're doing for the industry for technicians and, and, and yeah, really,
really hope to keep these conversations going. And we'll get you back on again and hopefully
that long-term future. Yes.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Jen, whenever you want to, just let me know and I'll be,
I'll be happy to be your guest again. I appreciate it.
All right. So my last thing, if people are interested in following you or they want to
connect with you and talk about what you're doing on the consulting side, what's the best
way for them to get in touch with you? They can always find me on LinkedIn. You can't really
miss me there. I'm the one with the very few with this weird last name. You'd be more than happy
to ever give me a tax, give me a tax or call me at 239-285-1638 or send me an email at mzwannenberg,
which is spelled just like that, but mzwannenberg.comcast.net. My business website will be up
soon. So we'll update the contact information there. But for now, reach me out either LinkedIn,
send me a DM, drop a line or call me, email me, text me. I'll be around.
Marco's a sharp guy full of a lot of information. So if you've listened to this,
have enjoyed it, make sure you reach out to him and learn all about his journey and what he's
doing. Thanks again, Marco. Absolutely, Jay. Thank you so much, Jen. Thank you for all you do.
That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you liked this episode,
please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews
on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by
the Wrenchway team. Wrenchway is dedicated to promoting and improving careers in the automotive,
diesel and collision industries. In partnership with ASC, we run the ASC Connects community,
which empowers shops and dealerships with reliable data, school connections and industry insights
while helping grow the future technician workforce. You can learn more by visiting
Wrenchway.com. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
About this episode
Marko Zwannenberg joins Jay Ganinen to talk technician happiness, mindset, and what actually drives retention in shops. The conversation blends Marko’s European-to-US career journey (Netherlands to BMW/Mercedes and beyond) with a blunt critique of industry “crying” about the technician shortage. They argue the real fix is leadership, clear technician role expectations, better onboarding, and proactive culture—plus tools like video MPIs, AI inspections, and even body-stretch programs. Communication gaps between management and techs remain a key problem, reflected in survey scores.
Original notes
Marco Zwanenburg, Aftersales Consultant at New Drive Consulting, joins us to be a voice for technicians in this people-first industry. He shares how shops can create a strong first impression from day one, why appreciation has to go beyond pay, and how holding onto the wrong people can quietly damage shop culture.
Watch the video podcast on YouTube
About the Episode
- Host: Jay Goninen, WrenchWay, [email protected]
- Guest: Marco Zwanenburg, New Drive Consulting, [email protected]
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