Thanksgiving Special! Air-Cooled Porsche Picks, Porsche News, GMA S1 LM $20M Sale & How to Love the Cars You Own
Full Throttle Talk
Thanksgiving Special! Air-Cooled Porsche Picks, Porsche News, GMA S1 LM $20M Sale & How to Love the Cars You Own
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Car
Toyota Land Cruiser
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a tough SUV that can handle off-road driving and is known for being reliable. It's been around for a long time and is popular for both adventure and luxury.
Term
convertible top canvas
Convertible top canvas is a strong fabric used for the roofs of cars that can be opened. It's usually better quality than vinyl, making it look nicer and last longer.
Term
vinyl
Vinyl is a type of plastic material often used in car roofs and interiors. It's cheaper than canvas but doesn't look or last as well.
Term
Targa
A Targa is a style of car that has a roof that can be taken off over the front seats, but the back part stays in place. It gives you the feeling of a convertible while keeping the car strong.
Term
first gear syncro
A first gear syncro helps the car shift into first gear smoothly. If it's not working properly, you might have to stop the car completely to change into first gear without making a grinding noise.
Term
transmission
The transmission is what helps your car change speeds. It takes power from the engine and sends it to the wheels so the car can move forward or backward.
Company
Bring a Trailer
Bring a Trailer is a website where people can buy and sell cars, especially older and special cars. It’s like an auction where you can bid on cars you like.
Car
Fiat Pandas
Concept
Fast Saturday
Fast Saturday is a car event where people gather to show off their cars and enjoy car-related activities. It's a fun way for car fans to connect and celebrate their love for vehicles.
Concept
Luftgekühlt
Luftgekühlt is a big car event focused on Porsche cars, especially older models that use air cooling instead of water cooling. It's a fun place for Porsche fans to meet and see amazing cars.
Car
Porsche 911
Car
Myers-Manks
The Myers-Manks is a type of dune buggy that became famous in the 1960s. It's built on a Volkswagen Beetle and is known for being fun to drive off-road.
Car
Porsche Carrera GT
The Porsche Carrera GT is a supercar made by Porsche. It has a powerful engine and is famous for being very fast and fun to drive, which makes it popular among car enthusiasts.
Term
4-CAM
4-CAM means the engine has four camshafts that help control how the engine's valves open and close. This setup can make the engine run better and more efficiently, especially in fast cars.
Term
test mule
A test mule is a car that is used to try out new ideas or parts before they are made for regular cars. It's like a practice version that helps engineers see how things work.
Term
air-cooled engine
An air-cooled engine keeps itself cool using air instead of water. This type of engine is often found in classic cars and some motorcycles.
Concept
Pike's Peak
Pike's Peak is a mountain in Colorado where cars race to the top every year. It's a big event for car enthusiasts and shows off how fast and powerful cars can be.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the more work the engine can do, like going faster or pulling heavier loads.
Term
PCH
PCH means Pacific Coast Highway, which is a famous road in California that goes along the coast. It's a nice place to drive because of the beautiful scenery.
Car
Renault Wind
Term
naturally aspirated
A naturally aspirated engine gets air from the atmosphere without any extra help from devices like turbochargers. This means it usually has a straightforward design and delivers power in a smooth way.
Company
BBI
BBI is a company that makes fast cars even faster, especially Porsches. They help improve the performance of these cars for racing and other high-speed activities.
Term
3.8
The '3.8' is a measurement of the engine size, specifically how much space the engine's cylinders take up. Bigger engines usually produce more power.
Company
Williams
Williams is a company in England that builds powerful engines for race cars. They have a long history in motorsport.
Term
race motors
Race motors are special engines made for racing cars. They are built to be very powerful and to perform well in competitions.
Car
Singer
Singer is a company that takes classic Porsche cars and makes them even better with special modifications. They are known for their quality and performance.
Company
Cosworth
Cosworth is a company that makes powerful engines for racing cars. They are famous for their work in Formula 1, where they help teams go faster.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV made by Porsche. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, even though it's an SUV.
Car
Gordon Murray Automotive S1 LM
The Gordon Murray Automotive S1 LM is a supercar created by a famous car designer. It's very light and fast, which makes it special among high-end cars.
Car
McLaren F1
The McLaren F1 is a famous supercar from the 1990s that is very fast and powerful. Many people want to buy it, and it can sell for a lot of money, usually between $20 and $25 million.
Car
Volkswagen Bus
Car
Alpina B8
The Alpina B8 is a special version of a BMW car that has been modified to be faster and more powerful. It's made by a company called Alpina that specializes in tuning BMWs.
Part
4.6-liter V8
A 4.6-liter V8 engine is a type of car engine that has eight cylinders and is quite large, which helps it produce a lot of power for the car.
Car
BMW E36
Car
BMW M5
Car
Alpina Z8
Car
Chrysler 200S
Car
BMW Z4
Car
BMW E60
Car
BMW New Bmw
Car
Hyundai Genesis
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
Car
Porsche 928
Car
Porsche 944
Car
Honda Civics
Car
Dodge Viper ACR
Car
Porsche Cayman
Car
Porsche 914S
Car
MG Midget
Car
Porsche 356
Car
Ford Contour
Car
Mercedes-Benz SL
Car
Volkswagen Jetta
Car
Mazda Miata
Car
Renault ZOE
LIVE
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where a horsepower meets conversation from supercars
to classic legends, high-revving tech to motorsport mayhem.
We covered all, straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gearhead eraser or
just love the thrill of the open road, you're in the right place.
Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.
Before we dive into today's episode, please bear with me as I read something that I've
written for all of you today to show our sincere gratitude for all of you helping us
build our Full Throttle Talk community.
And again, we just want to take a moment to say something real, something that we don't
say enough.
Full Throttle Talk started out as a passion project.
About a year ago, some of you might find that kind of surprising, but it's true.
Me and Paul Kramer had this, you know, hair-brained idea of starting a podcast.
And along the way, we've met some other folks that turned out, David and Casey
turned out to be great co-hosts.
And who knows?
Some of you might in the future want to be one of our co-hosts as well.
So what is Full Throttle Talk?
It's just friends talking about cars, arguing about the dumb stuff, observing,
obsessing about the details that only true car enthusiasts care about.
We didn't know if anyone else would listen, frankly.
We were really kind of shocked when we picked up a few listeners,
and now we have literally tens of thousands of listeners on a regular basis.
And it still blows our minds that this little idea has grown into a global community
where car people who show up and listen to us every single week.
And what's really fun is when we look at the iTunes stats,
all the people from literally all over the world that are true car nuts,
mostly Porsche car nuts, that are finding their home with Full Throttle Talk.
So listen, you have families, you have careers, you have responsibilities,
projects, real life happening, and yet you carve out time for us every single week.
And as do we for you, every download, every comment, every direct message,
every photo you send from a garage somewhere in the world,
it means more, it means so much to us.
Because we know that, we know that, frankly, we're in alignment with
all of you globally who also share the same passion.
And somehow it makes the world seem a little bit less daunting and a little bit,
I don't know what you'd want to call it, but let's just say a little bit more homie.
Because you know wherever you go on planet Earth,
you're going to be able to run into people that share the same passion with you.
And if you didn't know that before, well, hopefully you're learning it now
being a Full Throttle Talk community member.
So we've, we've turned this little, you know, passion project
into something bigger than their show.
It's become a shared passion of place where people can live and breathe cars and just be.
And that's where it's going to continue to be.
It's not going to be pretentious.
They're not going to have many TED talks.
We're not going to have somebody coming on for 20 minutes.
Well, maybe Paul and pontificating something that's about something
that maybe some of you will find interesting.
I always like Paul's riffs just for the record.
But the moral of the story is, is this podcast we're going to continue to do,
we're going to focus in on the things that we know you're interested in,
but we need you to help us make it better.
So if there's any topics that you have, any suggestions that you might have,
any directions that we're going that you might not really, you know, gel with,
let us know.
We're open to some suggestions, but we're going to stay true
with being true car enthusiasts.
So we're not going to allow our heads to go in the clouds
and start thinking we're more than we are.
We're just car dudes.
That's it.
Just like you, car dudes and car dude ads, I suppose.
So listen, on behalf of myself and Kramer and all the other folks that are
participating in full throttle talk course, David and Casey and our show producers now
that we have helping us out.
We want to sincerely thank you for keeping full throttle talk at the top of the iTunes,
you know, podcast charts for automotive.
It's just ridiculous, but it's true.
And thank you for continuing to support us on all the other platforms.
Do us a favor.
If you're over on iTunes, give us a five star review and a piffy comment.
YouTube, you know, chime in and let us know what you think.
Make sure you subscribe.
Help us to continue to get the word out.
We have no real plans to start selling swag or, you know, doing events or really any way
and make money from this.
It's just purely a passion project.
Matter of fact, if you want to know the truth, doing this costs us money, you know,
because we have to pay people to help us get it done.
That's really where we're coming from.
We want to extend our passion to you and we, and I hope in exchange,
you extend your car, your automotive passion to us.
And that's how it feels.
And it's very special.
So thank you for being part of that.
God bless you and happiest of thanksgivings.
Welcome back.
It's Tim Harris.
I'm here with my friends, Paul Kramer, Casey Park, and of course, Dave and Epps.
And this is your favorite weekly automotive podcast full throttle talk.
And we have a lot of great topics for you.
We're going to just try to do a, no longer do a Jerry Lewis telethon.
If you guys are of the age, you know what I'm talking about podcast today.
We're going to try to condense it because we have people here that have planes to
catch, but we are going to go over your favorite topics, which is what did
you do in cars this week?
Automotive news that caught your eye.
Probably Porsche focused on these clowns.
Listener questions, how to stay happy with the cars you own.
That was a great question we got from listener last week.
This or that air cooled for under 150 grand, which was a shockingly hard task.
Thank you, Paul Kramer.
I thought about that for like two freaking days and it's not easy anymore
because everything's so damn expensive.
Oh, okay.
So he supposedly has a solution for that.
By the way, we are publishing a lot of, based on your feedback,
great articles on our newsletter.
So if you're not yet subscribed, it's free.
You just go to fullthreadletalk.com and we have a lot of contributor articles,
which are, I'm really happy to give anybody who has any car related,
but primarily Porsche related content.
If you want a platform, I encourage you to consider publishing on our newsletter.
Somebody as a, we have a lot of submissions.
I have three or four that I'm coming through and honestly, I love them all.
So whatever, if you're a, someone who's already wanted to write about the hobby,
write about your passion and you want a place to publish it.
Well, you've got one now.
So just submit your articles directly to us.
My contact information is down below or like I said,
just subscribe to the newsletter at fullthreadletalk.com.
All right guys, let's roll right in.
What did you do in cars this week?
Casey Parkin.
The 964 worked.
Yes.
Did about a hundred miles on it.
There's a town west of Washington DC called Leesburg in Virginia
and my wife and my dog and I went out and did some Christmas shopping
and just kind of had a nice peaceful day.
Car work great.
Couple little more little quirks that I found,
but functionally it was flawless.
So zero issues would recommend.
Casey, can you be,
can you be in a car you own without looking for things that it needs
like squeaks and rattles drive you crazy?
Squeaks and rattles do drive me crazy.
However, there is a certain age of vehicle where it's acceptable
and if it was a modern car, it would drive me nuts.
But if it's an old car, it doesn't bother me that much.
That's true with people too, Paul.
Did you do the Keanu Reeves put the Christmas tree on the roof of your 964?
That's 100% not happening.
No, that's mortifying.
That's going to scratch the crap out of their original paint.
I put it on my Land Cruiser before.
Yeah, well.
Oh, trust me.
There's no original paint on that car.
It's like six shades of Polar Silver.
Well, at least it's got a festive name.
Dave, how about you?
What did you do in cars this week?
Listen, we have had one hell of a week here at Old Sunderworks.
This car behind me that I'm showing right now is an 85 Targa,
which we have turned into a Panda.
And what I mean by that obviously is we took out the black interior
that this car came with and we converted the car to a black and white.
Hang on, I'm sorry.
I'm just going to get my click correct here.
Black and white interior.
So something that you never want to touch when you get dirt on your hands, that's for sure.
But very cool car.
Did a great Canvas Targa top for the Targa on this too,
which always look great.
We've been doing that.
I'm a lot of cars and did another super cool door pocket thing on this car.
But I'll say, Dave, is that top like some Brella type material or what is that?
No, it's actually convertible top canvas, Paul.
And it doesn't.
Is it better than that vinyl?
Because it looks like it fits really nice.
Yeah, it's great.
It's way better than the vinyl.
And it's really more about an original car versus something modified.
This is the same stuff singers doing on their Targas when they're building them as well, though,
using convertible top canvas.
You can actually do them on colors and stuff.
Really fantastic.
And it dresses the car up beautifully.
Guys that want authenticity will probably stay with the vinyl,
but this is a really terrific look.
Why not go with the umbrella?
Just to Paul's question, I'm just curious.
The umbrella fabric, is that not as, I'm just, that's a good question.
It's not as robust.
This is literally convertible top fabric, which is got layers and layers of
non-waterproof, impervious material, so it's literally what's used for convertible tops,
which so much more heavy duty than just a straight umbrella fabric,
but has all the same kind of quality sun, all the same kind of quality.
Sorry, my brain isn't working so far.
What I'm impressed with, Dave, is how tight that fits.
Like that line across the back.
I mean, I'm dealing with an 88 Targa right now,
and it's just so hard to get those tops.
They are such a nightmare.
Yeah, they don't fit great at all.
And you do have to spend a lot of time tweaking and twisting and turning.
But the reason I was pointing this out, and I don't want to take too much of the time here,
but the reason I pointed this fabulous car out is I got this car sold, right?
This car was sold.
I had a deposit.
I was ready to deliver the car.
I was doing my personal last shape down on this car.
And all of a sudden, I realized I got no first gear sink row.
I have to, the car has to be completely at a stop in order to get the car in first gear,
also grind into first.
So here we've done all this great work.
This car was completely painted rust repair interior.
We went through this car and I get right to delivery point and boom,
I got to drop the motor and pull the trans and fix the transmission for this client.
And I think it's the thing that I'm pointing out only as it is,
you know, you're buying cars on bring a trailer.
You're buying cars someplace where you don't know what you're getting
and you're going to get this car and you buy this car and you'd be stuck with it.
You know, you buy from a, you know, somebody like myself or Casey or Paul,
you know, we're going to stand behind that thing.
It's either going to get vetted up front so that it's known that the issue needs to
be corrected before it goes or it's going to get fixed.
You know, and that to me was, you know, I just a little, I mean,
I'm just kind of patting myself on the back, I guess, as a, as a dealer that sells porches to say,
you know, we don't deliver cars that aren't ready for these guys.
So it's taken a lot of time this week.
So that's been my week is trying to sort this whole thing out.
How many miles did you have before your initial, before your final shakedown?
On this car, I didn't have a lot.
That's my, that's my issue, Casey.
That's the problem.
I thought the car was kind of sorted and that we had some other guys driving it.
And, you know, Dave, I got kind of excited when I saw your notes.
I thought, oh, cool.
He's restoring fiat pandas.
And then I was wondering how a fiat panda was $72,000.
Great car though.
I mean, this car is fantastic.
And when it comes right down to it, I'll get my money back out of this car,
meaning, you know, we'll be paying ourselves for all the repairs and work we put into this
to get this car into this condition.
But this isn't one that you're buying and you're flipping and you're just
curious about that.
I wasn't going to be so rude to ask, but since you brought it up,
I mean, with you putting a newer interior and other work on that car
and you selling it for what you sold it for, there's no money in that thing.
Because it's not like you got that for super cheap.
There's no way you did.
Those cars are too expensive, you needy.
Correct.
But if you think about it like this, Tim, and this will be, you know,
just an interesting way to think about it.
So like, I got people that we pay.
And if this was a customer car that came in for all this work,
we'd have, you know, done all this work and then the customer would have paid us.
In this case, I'm doing the work.
I keep track of it like I would any customer.
And in the end, when I sell the car for the money and basically paying myself
as though I was a customer that was here getting, you know,
so I don't lose money on the car.
But I'm basically providing work for my shop to recondition this car.
And when we ultimately sell it is when I'm getting paid for that work.
No, it makes sense.
And Tim, that's a good way to think of it.
I've sold some cars that were a little bit driver to other car dealers
that have restoration shops like Dave's where they bought them.
And the end of the day, it's a break even, maybe even a slight loss.
But more importantly, like Dave said, they're low on work.
They keep their employees employed.
They pay the bills and employees versus not versus paying them out of their pocket
because there's not enough work.
So it made more sense to them buy a car, restore it,
keep their employees working and producing something
than just paying them for nothing.
No, I get it.
The only difference in that is that I got tons of work.
So I got to always fight my way in to get these things done.
But it's just additive, right?
It's just all part of the total business, right?
Yeah, I was going to say Dave's not suffering for work.
You got to go to a shop one day, Paul.
It is bonkers.
I will.
I'm telling you, it's good.
It's crazy.
It's got like, I don't even know how many storage containers
full of old porches in the back of a shop.
It's almost overwhelming.
And I shudder to think that poor Albert's having to suffer
in the North Carolina weather and one of your crusty old storage containers.
No, he's not right now, Tim.
As a matter of fact, Albert, your beautiful 72 Albert Blue RSR
tribute is at the Porsche dealer right now on display at the Porsche dealer here.
I don't know how to get outside.
You guys get the impression that's to become more of Dave's car than mine.
I mean, people, you know, I'm moving around a little bit.
You know, you like to show it off.
It's a lovely car.
He's driven it more for their classic area.
He literally knows the car better than I do.
And I'm thrilled that you're enjoying it and getting benefit from it truthfully.
Makes me happy.
All right.
Kramer wrote about you.
What's your cars this week?
You know, we're so fortunate here in Southern California.
Tim, you know this, there's not a shortage of car things to do.
And Saturday was an event called Fast Saturday,
which is the best way to describe it.
It's becoming like a mini Lufka Colt light.
It was down in San Juan Capistrano.
But more importantly, I got to drive my Green 911,
which is sort of my rally backbone.
I had driven it just around the block once,
realized I was not in physical shape to do it.
But I drove it great.
I've been walking a mile almost every day in soft sand,
trying to build up for the ice race in the end of February,
which stay tuned for that.
Oh yeah.
But the fact, you know, this was a really,
I don't know if you guys have seen this car on Instagram.
It's a sort of, I mean, it's an artist's car.
I don't know if you could see the interior.
It was cool to see this.
The interior is awesome.
It is awesome.
It is a lot.
I love it though.
That car is fantastic.
This was one of my favorite cars.
Tim, you'll appreciate this.
A Myers-Manks with a 4-CAM engine in it.
Is that, was that one of the cars from Cam Ingram?
No, no.
This is Philip Serafin, the owner of Myers-Manks.
I think that he had something to do.
I think that they had something to do with it at Road Scholars.
Possibly.
But isn't that hilarious though to think about that?
Motor, $200 to $250 grand.
Faberglass buggy from the 70s.
50.
50 if you're lucky.
You're exactly right.
Then he's got a Carrera GT badge on the back of it there.
Does he really?
He's pretty sweet.
Oh yeah, yeah.
That's awesome.
That's killer.
That is killer.
That's a great little buggy, man.
That's awesome.
It was very cool.
And I, you know, I had the video where I caught him pulling in.
And it's just such a weird thing.
You know what, Tim, you know what a 4-CAM sounds like.
So you just hear this really unique clatter, and you look over,
and then you see a dune buggy.
On Sunday, I got to put some miles on our low mileage golf blue car
at this other little event in Lido.
But what was really cool was, if you know of Tim, the owner of BBI,
he brought out this car.
I don't know if you guys have ever seen this thing before.
So this is like, imagine it's his test mule lab rat.
It is not for sale.
I doubt it's street legal.
I don't know what engine's in it.
I was talking to Tim a little bit.
It is constant.
Whenever he's got an engine he wants to try out,
air-cooled engine like some of the Pike's Peak engines he did for Jeff Zwork,
he'll throw it in this car, put a plate on it,
and drive it up and down the street.
It's rough.
It's finished so rough.
So we drove from Lido to Crystal Cove,
which is a little 10-mile drive up the coast.
And we took off at this one light.
I'm in the 74 with all of 175 horsepower.
He weights at least 30 car lengths on PCH.
At least.
I thought maybe he stalled it or it had problems.
He came by me so fast like a truck where you move over a lane.
Like it just, the wind pulls you.
I haven't seen anything that fast normally aspirated ever.
What was it?
Do you remember?
What was the motor?
I think it was an air-cooled four-liter.
I think it was the Pike's.
I think it was the Pike's Peak motor that he was running.
Who built that?
BBI.
This is BBI.
So he did build it.
Okay.
He did build it.
Yeah.
It's his car, his engine.
And really this car is just constantly evolving
and getting different parts.
And he imagined you build a braking system,
you throw it on this car, try it out.
You build an engine system, you name it.
Lights, the fenders look like they were Zeus fastened on.
Like he could just take the fenders off.
It was a trip.
We need to have Jay Lee.
We have Jay Lee.
It's a 993B.
I'm sorry.
99, I think it was a C4, an aero body is how it started.
We need to have Jay Lee from what's the name of his show?
His, of course.
Merage, Merage International.
Thank you.
Because he's able to get these motors reliable over four liters.
Like 4.2, 4.4.
So it would be really fascinating to have him on
to see what he has to say about how he keeps those things patched together.
And Dave, that's the motor that we have in Albert, by the way.
It's the 3.8.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I think I mentioned this before, but it's kind of interesting portion
nerd fact that the original Singer motors that were badged as being built
by, oh, you guys got to bail me out.
This is going to be a Casey fact.
The company in England that makes
No.
Williams, Williams.
Not Williams, Casey, old school engine builder.
They make, just to this day, they still make race motors.
9M?
It was the original motor that went into the Singers.
And it was built by supposedly that this company.
I thought they were all Rossport.
No, the original ones Jay Lee built the first motors for Singer.
He built them for Singer, but he was building them on,
the badge on them was the company I'm trying to remember from England,
but it was built by Jay Lee.
So the company was actually, so Singer was saying,
this is a blah, blah, blah, blah motor, which people kind of recognize
from racing.
I, Paul, if I see you're researching it and then,
and then Jay Lee was the one that actually was building them.
So I thought that was kind of fascinating.
So what did I do in cars this week?
Here, that's what you do in cars this week.
There you go.
That's what you do when you live in Puerto Rico.
Oh, Tim, Tim Cosworth is who you're thinking of.
Cosworth.
Yes, you got it.
Nice job.
Yeah.
So that is a cool performance racing simulator, literally the same one used by,
I think it's seven of the F1 drivers.
We've had this thing now for two, three years,
and ours has got a couple more screens, but that's basically the same rig.
And I started out, I was, I hadn't been on that thing for probably 60 days.
And, you know, that usually means I'm going to be terrible.
And indeed I was, but I started out at Mid-Ohio in 20th,
which is last spot.
And I finished second.
So that's pretty awesome.
Wow.
Good job.
Yeah, you don't mean that.
I appreciate it, Paul.
I'll take it.
I do.
I do have a little teaser.
That was a golf clap.
I know.
Next Monday, I get to experience one of the coolest air-cooled engines of all time.
And I will, I'll just put it this way, it revs to 11.
And I'm happy to share that information on the next podcast.
Excellent.
Does it start with the...
Might.
Might start with that.
Might be another British company.
Yeah, it might be.
All right.
So let's move on.
All right.
So let's, trying to be respectful of your guys's limited time.
Did I skip anything?
I don't think I did.
Nope.
Nope.
You guys just put a lot of details in.
All right.
Automotive news.
Now, do I have to go first so you guys don't steal my thunder?
Let me see what your notes are.
No, we're, we're here to...
That's probably a smart move.
Casey and I are here to help you with your thunder.
We have, we have supporting evidence for what you're about to talk about.
Okay.
Good.
All right.
So let me find my just background and effects.
All right.
So I thought this was kind of brilliant.
And I know Dave would love this thing.
I think I'll, everyone watching would.
This is the Porsche Cayenne that Porsche through,
I think it was Thunderworks modified as original Cayenne.
We had one of these.
It was absolutely probably the best built vehicle we've ever had.
And yeah.
So it looks like, I'm not sure if they're going to do a production run of these things.
I kind of doubt if they are.
It looks like it may have been a one-off.
But Dave, when I saw the interior of this thing, I thought of you.
Isn't that awesome?
That's awesome.
I know that interior is gorgeous.
I saw these pictures.
It's great.
So if you're listening, basically what this is, is a Mark I, I'm sorry,
but it's an original Cayenne from 2009.
And Porsche went through every, every bit of it.
And man, can you guys imagine if they were to come out with a Cayenne
that looked that badass now?
Honestly.
So I don't know.
I think everything mechanically, with the exception of probably the
suspension is original.
I didn't hear anything about pricing, but I thought it was fantastic.
The Porsche is, and this falls in alignment with what we were talking
about last week.
That seems like they're doing more of these.
You're seeing more companies and now Porsche that are sort of doing
rest or rides on their not so old cars.
So that was my news for automotive news for the week.
So they built that especially in the SUV.
Go ahead.
I'm going to case it's going to do more than all you guys.
Do you know who they built that car for?
No, sir.
The same guy that was driving that Myers-Manks with the four cam in it.
Oh, seriously?
Wow.
Yep.
And so the reason why Casey...
One of your guys, Casey, somebody who basically has triplicates of everything
and how he's trying to think of things he doesn't have.
Right.
So one of the reasons Casey and I have a picture of another Cayenne,
it's called the, is it Jagdewagen?
How do you pronounce it, Casey?
Your German's probably better than mine is.
It's a JAGD wagon, which is actually a throwback to an old
and Jagdewagen basically means hunter vehicle.
And back in 2009, they took a 2007, which if you can see it,
and it's sort of an army green, whatever, Cayenne, first gen Cayenne,
and they built in the back, here's some of the drawings.
So I have kind of a deep throat insider from Porsche.
The one you're talking about, Tim, internally, I think,
pissed off a lot of the designers because they just parts been that car.
The colors weren't quite right from a designer standpoint.
And the person who designed that Porsche fabric, it wasn't for that use,
a whole bunch of different things.
What he liked was this, which was a concept that never got built,
which was to build a hunter wagon for, let me pull it up, for hunting.
And here's the best part.
It was transformed for the rear and interior, not only has a rifle and ammunition box,
but it has a blood pan for transporting the captured game that slides out.
So you could put your deer on a blood pan, which I kind of liked.
And that was one of my favorite things to see at the Porsche Museum.
I've seen it a couple of times now, and it's very timeless.
So the fact that they did build that thing was not surprising.
Paul, there's zero chance you've ever been hunting.
Zero.
Yeah, you're right.
I would suck at it so bad.
I would put Casey at slightly above zero, and I would put Dave at 50-50.
I'd be negative.
Well, that's what Dave's doing.
He's hunting turkey this afternoon.
He's got to fly to a turkey preserve to hunt it,
and then they're going to cook it tomorrow.
Wait until you see me pluck it, Paul.
Where we have our place in Murphy, North Carolina.
You see turkeys all over the frickin' place this time of year,
and in about two months from now, you don't see them anywhere.
Wow, imagine that.
You can see them on the roadside.
I mean, they're everywhere, anyway.
They are.
All right, so I'm going to put this up.
I'll just go real quick on this one.
You guys know about this sale.
I showed it with you in the WhatsApp group.
So Casey nailed the facts on this a couple of weeks ago,
but they made five of those.
One of them just sold for 20 million,
basically $21 million.
I'm not sure if that included the buyers big or not,
but what I thought was interesting about that,
and I checked this, is that those cars, that car,
sold for the same amount as one of the most recent F1s.
So what we're looking at, listeners,
if you're listening and not watching,
is the Gordon Murray, the GMA S1 LM,
which sold for $21,630,000,
and there's five S1s that were built.
And again, it's selling for the same price as the 94 F1,
which forever have been 20 to $25 million cars.
What do you guys think about that,
that this new one is selling for the same price as the old one?
I think you have one of each, right?
If you have one of each.
Well, yeah.
I mean, if it were a $120 million car, you can afford two.
Probably.
I would bet whoever bought it does have an original F1,
but how many original F1s they make?
300, 400?
How many do you know?
I don't think it was that many.
I think it was far fewer.
I'll Google it.
But they made more of those than these five,
and I'm guessing the guy who commissioned it's keeping a couple.
So let's just say there's three really in the open market.
How often are these going to trade?
And I think this guy just jumped on the opportunity.
Maybe he did overpay, but what's overpaying?
What do you think the seller had five commissioned
at the same time?
And I'm guessing that this is going to work out
to be a very lucrative...
Yeah, he's basically going to have two free ones.
Exactly.
That's the math I did, too.
That's exactly right.
I mean, I did that similarly back in the day
when we first opened the business,
a mortgage company went out of business.
We bought all three of their Chevy Express fans.
I sold two of them and I got a free van.
Very similar.
That works.
All right.
Let's see.
Paul, why don't you go next?
This is a story if you're local here
in Southern California, but obviously the news
across the world about the Palisades
and the Altadena fires, which were horrific.
And the one shining light about it was,
and it was sort of a symbolism,
but we've all seen this Associated Press picture
of the blue bus named Azul prior to that.
This gal locally owned it.
Her name is Megan.
And as a goodwill thing, Volkswagen North America
got together and decided to restore it
because although it looked really great in these pictures,
when you actually got it,
that was the side that was actually facing the fire.
And it got pretty beat up
and they did a full restoration on the car.
And the theme of Thanksgiving,
they basically presented it last week
at the LA Auto Show to Megan
and her friend who sourced the car originally.
And it's a 77 Volkswagen,
just transporter bus, nothing fancy.
And what was cool when they restored it
as even though they're Volkswagen North America,
they were, it was already modified
with some different stuff
and they restored it modified.
They left it modified.
They didn't go back to stock, which I thought was neat.
They really made it look just like the modified car
she had, but gleaned it up.
And the press that they've gotten from it.
I mean, it's all I saw at the LA Auto Show.
And now they call it the magic bus.
And I, my first thought as a used car salesman is like,
how long is she going to keep that?
Who's going to offer her stupid money right now?
And what would that, I mean,
I could see that going at Monterey,
you know, Gooding Auction, you know,
Azul the magic bus.
And if so, what would it go for?
A hundred grand?
I mean, that bus, even if it was not,
you know, Volkswagen North America,
that bus today is worth restored like that.
I don't know, Dave, probably 25 grand.
It's not, I don't know more than that.
I think restored like that.
I think it's probably 50 restored like that.
But the problem is it's not a desirable model.
It's, it's not, it isn't, but it's still,
it's still a, you know, a VW bus.
And, and, but I think your,
your original point is in its current situation
with its pedigree that it has,
with those historic pictures and everything else.
I mean, that car would absolutely go.
That's a short window though, right?
I mean, that's a short window.
Very short.
That's a 12 month story.
If they didn't, if they didn't send it off at Monterey Car Week,
good luck at Scottsdale getting money for it.
It's a good place, a good place for me to interject.
When we were doing the, what's the 993 RS tribute worth
from a couple of shows ago, Polar Silver,
he sold it and Dave was basically spot on at 155.
Casey was 85.
You were like, I don't remember 120 or so.
So Dave nailed it at 155.
And he sold it in like one day.
Good.
Awesome.
Now, with that said, in Puerto Rico, if it's not a plug-in
or if it's not a hybrid to bring it in,
you're going to have to pay 20 to 25% taxes to bring it in.
So when he brought that car in the last five years,
he had to pay more than what it would cost in the States.
So if you back that out now,
it's basically more in alignment with what you guys are saying.
But there you go.
So cool.
All right.
Casey, news or what news for this week?
So I'm just going to regurgitate what I did last week, I think,
because Henry Ketchpool put out another awesome video
on the Haggerty YouTube channel talking about the history
of the Alpina B8, 4.6-liter V8,
which is, if you look at the car behind me,
it's basically an E36.
This one's a wagon,
but they shoved a 4.6-liter engine from Alpina.
The crazy thing about it is that you'll learn in the video
that Alpina actually talked BMW into casting those blocks for them.
So they got the manufacturer to literally build them a hot rod motor
to put in a car that didn't say BMW on it.
It's a great video, great story.
I love E36 BMWs.
This is probably the coolest of all E36 BMWs.
So I definitely recommend checking it out.
And Haggerty's just on top of it
for insanely good content right now.
So Casey, I was thinking, I watched that video.
It was a really good video because I do love that car.
And it's kind of a sleeper.
It's not about, it puts out what, 335 horsepower or something
in that range, but it is an Autobahn bomber sleeper.
I love the fact that it's narrow body.
They didn't flare it.
But the question I had was, do you think BMW agreed to cast
the case because they thought that they might use it
in something and then they scrapped it?
Because I don't believe BMW would do that
just for Alpina.
No idea.
I mean, I really think it comes down
to how much money they needed at that point.
I know that I was talking to one of my friends
that's a listener of the podcast
and he lives in Stuttgart and he has wife,
he and his wife have a, the one following this
that's based on the really nice like 2000 M5,
but it's a wagon.
I think it's a B9 with the same 4.6 liter motor in it.
And his car is awesome.
The last time we were in Germany, my wife and I,
we went out in that car with them
and he's manual swapped it and done all kinds of stuff.
So when we have an Alpine episode,
we can talk about that car.
We definitely have to.
Didn't they put a 4.6 and an X5?
They did.
Yeah, so they did it in that.
Yeah, so they did it in that.
And then also the 4.6 liter, if I'm not mistaken,
is also in the Alpina Z8.
Okay, yeah.
That makes sense.
You guys driven a Z8,
I know we brought that before.
I don't remember what your answers were.
They have you.
I drove it on Laguna Seca.
It was great.
Look at Casey, like I drove five this morning, bro.
What are you asking me?
I've owned three actually, but one Alpina,
one Alpina and two normal ones.
I kind of like the Alpina better.
Do you guys think the Z8s are special cars?
Yes.
I think they're going to keep going on.
Me too.
I think they're special cars too.
There's something.
And I think, yeah, I think the Alpina,
even though it's just the automatic
steptronic transmission that comes with it,
there is something uniquely different about the Alpina.
Even though it's a less horsepower, smaller motor,
it is something special about it,
which is part of the reason why they command such a premium.
And I think they drive better
than the manual transmission ones.
The clutches on the manual transmission ones
are kind of like a light switch.
And there's very little modulation that you can do.
The Alpina cars just,
you could cross the continent and that thing.
It's like an old 930.
It's awesome.
I think those things are like 200 to 250 too.
I'm pretty sure that's where they're following.
No?
The one I look after is, I think it's a 6,000-mile
black-over-red car.
And I think that one's probably deep in the 200s now.
Well, is that an Alpina or a normal one, Casey?
An Alpina.
Yeah.
Well, I thought an Alpina.
And that's like the most desirable color too,
black-on-red Alpina.
I think that's the premium.
If you see one of those cars out in the wild
and your mind is conditioned to seeing Korean cars
and old vans and whatnot,
and you see one, it does look unbelievably gorgeous.
I had that experience last summer
and I couldn't stop staring at the car.
It was surrounded by Porsches.
David, what did you do?
I'm just really sorry.
Really quick, Tim.
Who designed it?
It wasn't Bangal.
Who designed that?
Was it Fisker?
Was it someone we know?
I think it was Fisker.
I think it was Fisker.
I designed it.
Yeah.
Beautiful car.
It definitely wasn't Bangal, bro.
That went without saying.
I mean, come on now.
I mean, have we forgiven that guy yet?
Let's be honest.
Have we?
Have we forgiven Chris Bangal?
You've let it go.
I have because, first of all,
the Z4 was one of the prettiest cars
that BMW turned out that decade,
the Z4 Coupe.
And second of all,
I think when you look at an E60 properly set up,
they're actually kind of pretty cars.
I'm like one of the few champions of E60 M5s.
I think they're really cool cars
and actually the SMG gets a bad rap.
That V10 with the SMG,
I mean, that was Le Mans technology
that went in that car.
Very cool car.
I think anything after what Kasey's got behind him,
the E36 that generation,
it just fell off like a rock.
But anyway, I mean,
literally when after those cars were out
and then they start coming out
this Bangal dastry in cars,
I looked at Julie and I said,
well, one less thing we have to worry about
is buying a new BMW.
Dave, automotive news.
Well, you mentioned Korean just a minute ago
and I was just this whole thing.
Paul is harassing me video wise here
with the liquid hot magma.
We don't talk.
I don't think the word Genesis
has ever come out of any of our mouths
during the time that I've been on this podcast
and all of a sudden they've come on strong
with this whole magma concept.
Candidly, I think the name is horrible personally.
I don't know how that's going to translate
here in the US.
That's for sure.
Sounds incredible in Korea.
Maybe it does.
As soon as I saw that,
I mean, all I could just picture
is Austin Powers liquid hot magma.
Yes.
But I think they're really...
Genesis came on out of Hyundai,
obviously, Division of Hyundai.
And for a while they came out,
back in the early 2000s
and right in through the 10s,
they had some really terrific looking cars
that people were really flocking to.
And then in my opinion,
they sort of went away for a few years.
But then over the last few years,
they're styling their design
and everything else has really come back on strong.
And you're seeing more and more of these
on the road right now.
But the thing that I thought was really interesting
was this sort of subline
that they've come out with here,
this magma line.
And they're really spinning every one of the models
with some sort of race technology.
I don't think they can make them all orange,
unfortunately, but they really do plan
in the concept cars
and the concept vehicles that they're showing
look to be like legit stuff
and that they're planning to compete in GT, in GT3.
So they've got the concept car
that they've been floating around here
during the auto show circuit.
And I just think it's kind of cool.
I think that they've got some cool technology
and I honestly do like the styling
on a lot of these cars right now.
So that's what I just thought was interesting.
They're Italian-style for the most part.
At least they were a few years ago.
Pina Freena was picking up the design
for a lot of the Korean manufacturers.
I'm sure that's still happening, you know.
So, but they are beautiful.
I agree.
Their LMDH car is one of the best-looking ones on the grid,
not even close.
Oh, they're not race fans.
They have no idea what you're talking about.
They know what it is.
It's the car that would have competed
against the 963, that level of motorsport.
I wouldn't have bailed them out.
I would have asked them and embarrassed them
with their lack of knowledge.
They've been made for better radio.
All right.
So just a reminder, subscribe to the newsletter
fullthrottletalk.com.
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All right.
So we have, I think we have a lot of really great,
a lot of comments this week, right guys?
A lot of really nice, friendly people
showing massive amounts of appreciation.
It's, you know, the community
that we're all forming, international community now,
especially in, what was it, Bulgaria?
We're huge in Bulgaria.
We are.
That's kind of funny.
But it, I don't know.
It's pretty, it's extraordinary.
We've been doing this now for starting of January of this year.
And just think what we've been able to do
in the short period of time, you know, massive gratitude.
And if you have any questions or suggestions,
we, we love getting comments,
even if you guys just want to,
my text is down below,
but if you want to message us over on Instagram,
whatever, your questions oftentimes will be way better
than whatever we were sort of deciding
over what we wanted to talk about that particular week.
So never hold back in this first one.
And Paul, can you read this?
This is a great example.
Yeah, sure.
This is a question that came from Matt on Instagram,
Matt on the water.
He goes, I thought about it today,
looking at the Gulf blue car.
How do you or folks like you in the industry
stay happy or content with your cars
and not constantly move into something else
being you have access to some of the coolest cars out there
between the cars you've posted in the last few weeks alone.
I'd be tempted with most of them.
And I think he's referring to just a bunch of different cars we have.
And I always joke and Dave,
you might experience this in your case.
I always say my job is like an alcoholic running a bar.
And the temptation is great.
In fact, all the cars that I own,
I'd say 90% of them came in on consignment
and I drove it.
And I was like, I can't let this go.
I have to keep it,
which is part of the reason we have these stickers on our cars
that say auto kennel museum.
People think it's a tax write-off has nothing to do with that.
For us, it's because my dad has always joked.
He sees that look in my face and he goes,
you know, we're running a dealership not a museum.
And I go, are we?
So anyway, that great question, Matt.
And Tim, I mean, you had a good response.
So why don't you share with Matt
how you decide how not to keep them all?
Well, I think the car is quicker than most of us.
But just out of curiosity,
what's the story with that golf blue?
Because I saw that too all over your socials.
And what we're looking at is a mid-year golf blue G-body.
And yeah, tell us about it.
Yeah, it's Sunday, I was doing some test driving
and not to get too people too excited,
but we already have a deposit on it.
It looks like it's staying here local in Orange County,
but it's a 74-911 golf blue original paint 39,000 miles
that most of its life in Florida.
One of the coolest features was this guy ordered it with vent windows,
which if you're familiar with 9-11,
vent windows on a coupe ended in 69 or 68,
actually halfway through 68,
and then vent windows ended on the Targas
by the time you got to the SCs.
So someone had to specially order this car.
It was what I call a survivor driver, very original.
And then somewhere in the late 70s,
the motor got rebuilt to S-spec.
What was really cool though is this guy
basically bought all the S parts from Porsche and put them on.
He didn't modify it crazy, just did it like you ordered an S.
He did the S sway bar, the S brakes,
the S oil radiator oil cooler in the front.
He rebuilt the engine with the higher compression pistons, cylinders.
That car, we were having a spirited drive,
that one where I told you Tim and his monster thing.
I was driving that car and I was pedaling that car as hard as it would go
and shockingly would keep up on city streets with a lot of the cars.
But really cool survivor and I'm glad it's staying local
because I'll get to see it again, maybe sell it again, maybe keep it again.
Is that a U.S. car?
Yeah, U.S. car.
U.S. no, U.S. car.
People don't realize in 74, the bumperettes were the same for the world.
Oh, you're right.
That's the reason I was noticing that.
And then in 75, that was the big, we got the big bumpers in 75.
Here's the funny thing is the engine dropped from 175 horsepower to 160 horsepower compression drop.
That was 75 was the big beginning of emissions for U.S.
You had a 49, that was the first year of 49 state cars, California separate,
thermal reactors, literally 75 it went to crap.
And, you know, this is going back to what Matt said, driving this car Sunday.
Oh, I wanted to keep it.
But to answer kind of his question, the reason I, there's a difference between
fall in love and lust.
And with these cars, I think what happens is I go, oh, I want this car.
And then I start thinking about how I would use it.
And because the end of the day, it's a tool for some experiences and fun.
And I see clients buy cars because they just lust after it.
And it just sits in the garage and they never use it, never fits their life.
And I look at cars like, how am I going to use it?
Is that going to be a part-time rally car?
Am I going to, like my 928 I use as an automatic because sometimes in driving in LA traffic,
I don't want to go, you know, it's fine in the mountains,
but I want to don't sit in LA traffic.
I want an automatic cruiser that's vintage.
You know, or sometimes I want to take, this is my long distance rally car,
do 15,000 miles a year.
But sometimes it's my 86, back date, 911.
But sometimes I have back-to-back rallies, so I'll jump into 944 as an alternate rally car.
So I think people need to ask the question when they're buying something,
you know, how not to keep them, is what are you going to actually use it for?
Like, how are you really going to get that to fit into your daily life?
I don't know about you guys.
I'll roll into the question next.
And so my wife and I, we've been married for 35 years.
So when I say this, put it in perspective.
And we've had over 100 cars.
Now, when we were first married, actually in high school and then in college,
we used to flip cars, old 911s, old three series, old Volkswagen's,
a water-cooled Volkswagen's and Honda Civic's.
That's all we'd flip, because those are the ones I knew how to work on.
9-11's not as much as the others.
And so we would buy them and, you know, try to pay a college tuition with it and it worked out.
So we've had a lot of cars.
And what I've learned over the years is that, you know, when you,
it's easy to, for me, it's easy to buy them and hoard them.
It's hard for me to sell them.
And so I had put rules in place, guardrails for my own dysfunction.
And if I don't get that, like when you're looking at your keys,
whether it's three keys or four sets of keys, like what Paul has,
if you find yourself no longer grabbing for a set of keys,
that's an early indicator that's time for that thing to go.
You fall not in love with it.
And the other reason, I'll tell you the other thing I find
is if I'm starting to rationalize it for financial reasons,
as it's going to be a good investment, then I've got to get rid of it
because it's not going to be a good investment.
It's always a shitty investment.
And I'm just trying to rationalize keeping it and not selling it.
And then Paul sells it.
Paul, I said it to Cam and Groom.
I said it to somebody else.
That's pretty much the life cycle.
I don't go through cars like I used to anymore
because this is not convenient for me.
But I've had all kinds of different cars.
I had a Viper ACR, all the Porsches you can imagine,
old Porsches, new Porsches, Ferraris, just tons and tons of cars.
You know, I was just thinking this morning,
it is really, really hard unless you're going to buy like a McLaren
or something like that.
Or I'm sorry, you know, a real, like an F1.
There's, it's virtually impossible to buy something
and get out of it clean for a newer generation car
in terms of not losing money.
But about 10 or maybe 15 years ago,
you could buy a lot of cars and drive them for free.
You know, a GT3 RS, we had a 2010 GT3 RS
that I bought for $134.
We ended up selling for like $173 or something like that.
Now it's worth $300, you know?
So there are actually a lot of cars that are, you know,
so it's super hard.
So I'll just, that's what I have to say about that particular.
Proof and point, this 997, it's an 05, 997.1 C2S.
This is our fourth time in nine years selling the car.
And the reason it is, is because two of those buyers,
I flat out told them, I knew them, they were friends of mine.
They told, I knew what they liked to drive.
I knew how they were going to use it.
I knew how they were going to use it more than they
knew how they're going to use it.
And I told them, this is the wrong car for that.
And what happens is they get it and they spend a year and a half
not driving it or not using it the way intended.
And then they go, yeah, it just doesn't fit my lifestyle.
I go, I know.
I mean, so for instance, the guy we're selling it for,
he bought it 14 months ago, 15 months ago.
And he comes up to the mountains on Fridays.
And I'm like, okay, he had a 07 Cayman S.
And he sold that.
So when he wanted to buy this, I said, well,
you had an 07 Cayman S, what's the big difference?
He goes, well, I bought that so my wife, he likes driving
his long hood.
He has a long hood.
I bought that so my wife could go in the car
and she'd be more comfortable.
Okay, how is it?
She hates it.
I said, but the 997 from the B-pillar forward
is kind of the same experience for a passenger.
There's no difference.
And he's like, well, I think it'll be smoother.
I go, it won't.
It won't be much different.
He bought the car.
Guess what?
His wife went for one drive, hated it
because it's not an SUV, what she likes.
He's a more mature gentleman.
And here we are.
Granted, he did put 7,000 miles on it.
So he got some enjoyment out of it.
But it's not a car he's going to keep for five years
because his wife flat out won't go in it.
And that was the purpose of the car.
Even though I said-
How many people listening or watching
know what an A-pillar is versus a B-pillar, by the way?
I'd guess not very many.
I got to believe all our audience.
Like if you're-
Let's explain it to them.
Can you use-
Okay, A-pillar, the car has three pillars.
A-pillar is where the windshield attaches.
That's the first vertical component of the structure of the car.
It's the front.
It's the front.
The B-pillar-
Well, let's start with the C-pillar.
Let's go back to the C-pillar.
The C-pillar is the last one.
It could be if it's a hatchback,
it could be the last vertical part
or slanted part of the structure.
And the B-pillar is usually right behind the driver,
the front seats.
It's where the seatbelt that you pull down
is attached to the B-pillar.
So you have A, B, and C.
I don't know.
I guess if you had a limousine,
maybe you got a D-pillar.
I don't know if there's more than-
So the old Professor Kramer.
In the car world, when someone says the doghouse,
what part of the car is that?
I learned this from my dad.
I mean, I thought it was-
Is that just-
I heard greenhouse, which is the-
No, doghouse.
It's so basically when you're-
It's a piece of shit car
and it's been cut to pieces.
The front of the car from the A-pillar forward
where the engine used to be
gets turned into a doghouse.
Oh, I've never heard that.
Yeah, I've never heard that either.
That sounds like a Midwest thing.
Exactly, it was a Midwest thing.
All right, so Dave, you're next.
What did you-
I have a slightly different take
because I'm probably more like Matt, right?
I buy more cars.
Paul's in consignment,
so he's actually got to literally
write the check if he likes the car.
I'm buying cars for resale,
so I'm buying distressed vehicles,
kind of like you used to do, Tim.
And then we fix them up.
And then depending on what the outcome might be,
I have to then look at the balance
of all these cars that I have
in my personal collection
and say, you know what, this one can go
and maybe I'll pull this one in.
And it does keep the hobby kind of nice and fresh
because there's a while on these cars
where you start doing stuff to them.
Like Paul, your, you know,
Tortuga is as far you've-
You know, it's like a glove, so to speak, right?
And you've done all the improvements and so on,
but there's a point in time
where you kind of start to say, well, geez,
would I like something better?
Is there something that would suit the need better?
And for me, like the car behind me
that I'm showing right now,
which is a 79 G body in Talbot Yellow,
the minute we bought this car,
I was like, man, I really like this car.
I like the color.
We're putting a new interior in it.
It's a rare piece.
It's got miles,
but the motor checks out great and all this stuff.
And I'm really in this mode right now
where I'm kind of tempted.
And part of the reason I'm tempted
is because I managed to, this car is my Tortuga.
This is an ADSC.
This is kind of a roof front bumper,
roof rear bumper, some custom seats.
It really fits me like a glove is my rally car.
And I really do enjoy this car.
Unfortunately, it met with a little scuffle
on my last rally
and it's sort of out of commission at the moment.
So, so we've got to do a little bit
of front end body work on the car.
So on that's for a story not for air.
With the front end body work,
can you please put H4 headlights on?
Yes.
Should we do it?
Should we do a Kickstarter for Dave?
I think that's a great idea, Paul.
I think you should start that later today.
But I actually have a set of H4s that I'd set aside
and we were going to put them on.
Last time I did a little front end body work on this car.
This car got the hell beat out of it.
And I told you, a Texas Hill country.
So when it came back,
I literally had to do the whole friend of the car again
because it just got the heck beat out of it.
But had a small off with it
and it cracked that front bumper up pretty good
and we got to do some body work to it.
But the point being is though,
this car is the one that just fits me like a glove
when I drive it.
The heel toe is in the right spot.
Great pressure is just about right.
You know, everything about it is nice.
And then even if I get in this car,
it's just not the same.
But we'll see what happens.
But I do see them come in and out.
I've got an 85 M 491 Targa right now
that we're just finishing up.
I'll show some pictures of that next week.
And that car is fantastic as well.
I might keep that one for a while,
but ultimately they'll always get sold.
I'll keep it for six months or a year.
Dave, you made a good point.
And that was the last part of this was to Matt
was people don't really, especially with the vintage cars,
how long it takes to...
And Tim, you know this to sort a car.
I all of my cars, the green car,
every car I've had that I've used for events or driving,
I would say a good solid 10,000 miles
to get it the way I want.
And I can do 10,000 miles in a year.
A lot of people that takes three years.
So to have a car for a couple years
and you're just dialing it in
and then just to start over again with a mystery car.
I think people don't really nest long enough
like a child, you know, the key I always tell people
is you want to find a way to own that car
and enjoy it without thinking twice about it
for five to 10 years.
That's like the magic number.
That's our next question.
So don't jump on the next segment.
I won't.
And Dave, I'm trying to be sensitive
to your time limitations.
And Casey, thank you for being patient.
I think Casey has the most succinct answer,
like usual to Matt's question, Casey.
So I don't sell anything.
The cars that my wife and I own, daily drivers,
those are the only things that are really in contention
for swapping out.
I drive a late model S4
and my wife drives a late model GTI.
But when it comes to our old cars,
we have a 72914 that needs the engine rebuilt.
We have a 1988 FJ62 and we have a 1991 964.
Those cars are all completely different
and they all cover a wide swath
of what is the type of experience that we like.
On a nice summer night, driving the Land Cruiser
with the windows down, going to a brewery,
dogs sticking their head out the window.
It's about perfect.
And a nice, I'm still getting, as Paul and David said,
we're still getting through the sorting period in the 964.
But once I build more confidence up in that car,
we can do the same thing, head out to nice driving roads,
go out with buddies.
Those are the kind of things.
Thankfully, I drive everything.
I drive everything from whatever to super expensive stuff.
And there are some things,
like I would love to own a 964 RS someday.
Does that fit in my financial plan for a long time from now?
Probably not.
My car is, I would tell you about 80, 85% the enjoyment
of that 964 RS.
So I'll just keep throwing money at that thing.
Until I get it really enjoyable.
You just said something really interesting.
I think people will really be fascinated by.
Do you think it's really only 85% to 90%
because the reality of it is, is that RS knowing you,
it's going to be a $350,000 car, would you get,
wouldn't that kind of take the fun factor out of it,
thinking that doesn't the money aspect
kind of start to creep in the enjoyment aspect?
The problem is the only way to reply to that
is it's all relative.
Right.
And for the people that can afford a $350,000 car,
they traditionally have a lot more available funds
for those sorts of things.
And while my approach to R911,
it was a stretch when we got it
because it was an interesting transitionary period
for me professionally.
But I could never make that justification
just because it is so much money.
A nice $50,000 to $70,000 R911,
for I would tell you for the majority of our listeners,
is probably the pocket.
And that's a lot of stretch for a lot of people,
me included.
But I was able to get my car
for what I would consider to be a very great number
on the promise that I would continue its legacy.
And that's why the people sold it to me
for the amount of money that they did.
And if I ever sold that car for a profit,
which I doubt I would now, I'd feel guilty about it
because they had offers higher than mine
but decided to sell me the car
because they knew I was going to do right by it.
So Casey's approach to this,
I actually find admirable in that
he wants to have fewer cars
that he builds long-term relationships with.
I don't have that gene.
Paul, who's the guy in Southern California?
You know who this is.
He's got a really amazing RSR, a longhood.
He's been building it forever.
I think he's a photographer.
Is that Jeff Schwartz?
Is that who I'm thinking of?
PCA did a story about him a few years ago.
He's kind of famous in the SoCal world.
He races the car at Button Willow
and beats new 911.
Oh, yes.
Jack Olson.
Yes, Jack Olson.
Oh, yeah, that guy.
That's a cool story.
That guy's kind of a legend in my mind,
to be honest with you.
He, his personality reminds me of Casey.
He nested so hard with that one car.
It's a 72 RSR tribute that he has built
to do the fastest slap at one particular track,
Willow Springs.
Like it is so, and then he built a garage
around that car.
I mean, it's so narrowly focused,
which you may say, well, gosh,
that seems lunatic or I would never do that.
And what I always tell people is
how you get intrinsic value out of a car,
how you enjoy a car, that's your deal.
Like whatever it is, you just have to find it.
And so many people get cars
and they just don't know how to find it.
They're following Instagram.
And maybe they don't like rallies.
Maybe they don't like wiping the car down.
Maybe they don't like working on the car.
I don't know what it is that they're going to like,
but the more things you try,
you'll find what makes that car endearing to you.
What the reason Casey likes his 964,
even though it sounds frustrating as hell,
is different than the, like, I, Casey,
I'm admirable that you're moving through that 964.
If I own that 964, I would be so angry
that I would just either get rid of it
or throw stupid money at it
and have a mechanic just sort it out once.
And for all, but, you know, that's the difference between us.
I'm going to take Casey's side on this.
I think actually there would be a lot of enjoyment
to in alignment with Jack Olson,
learning more about the car
and getting it to know on a deeper level,
sort of like a long-term relationship.
So Casey, I don't know how you feel about that, but...
So I'll, you guys continue to talk for a second.
I'll show you two of the reasons why I really like my cars.
But so, Tim, but here's the thing is,
I think you and Casey,
and probably Dave to some degree,
but maybe Dave's more like me,
I think you guys have the natural aptitude to work on cars.
As a kid growing up, my dad was that way.
He was very handy.
He was good at working at cars.
I hung around him.
I didn't like it.
I didn't like it then.
I like being with my dad in the garage,
but I didn't like fixing shit.
I would much rather,
and my whole philosophy is,
why would I do that
when I could pay someone else to do it
and I could go do something I want to do?
I like Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder.
I just want to drive.
I don't care about the rest of it.
I don't even know what it is.
I just want to drive.
You guys fix the rest.
You're not like Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder.
You're more like Danica Patrick.
Come on.
Look at that hair.
You're more like Danica Patrick,
who basically says she doesn't like cars.
Yeah.
Okay. You're right.
So I'll quickly do this
because I know that we're on a time crunch.
So this is the 9-11.
Okay.
This is to me is what is almost as important as the car,
and this isn't all of it,
including the original window sticker.
Okay.
So there's the start on that one.
Here's the Land Cruiser.
Okay. Nice.
Here's the original window sticker for the Land Cruiser.
I mean, these are the kind of things
that I love to tell the story.
I love to see the long-term ownership,
the long-term enjoyment and investment in the car.
And to me, yeah, I could have probably bought a car
that had eight owners and half the miles
and probably looked a little bit better
for the investment that I have in my car now.
But I know every single inch of that car
due to its history, and even though it has
some foibles here and there,
it's the kind of thing that I do enjoy
the process of making right so it can be my car.
So I'm going to say something,
knowing that Paul's going to throw shit at me,
but that's fine.
You should Google Classical Romantic,
and that's your approach,
as I've gotten to know you more.
It is to cars, and I think I suspect life in general,
but you should Google that.
I just gave you a really nice compliment, by the way.
Dave.
I appreciate it.
I'm trying, again,
I'm being respectful of your time.
Are you good?
I'm good.
If we want to roll into the next segment here
and let me go first,
and then if I have to bail,
then you guys have at it.
Exactly.
My wife is going to be here right on the top.
No, it's perfect.
So let me read it.
So this or that,
you must choose two air-cooled porches
with each not to exceed 150,000
based on recent sales price.
Boy, I did a terrible job.
Oh no, I cut and paste what Paul wrote.
No, he wrote this.
Tying into Paul's,
tying into Matt's questions above,
these actually be cars that you'd be happy with
for a long time, five to 10 years,
and they would easily integrate into your lifestyle.
So Dave, you first.
Okay, well, I picked two cars a little bit different.
Both recent sales on BAT.
The first one is a 95993.
I picked the 993 specifically for Paul,
because I know how much he loves 993s.
But I do find that the 993
is a car that I could live with for a long time,
just like a 964.
It's a very refined car.
I do think that they are great looking as well.
And in this particular color,
this is a 49,000 mile car in Aventura Green,
which I think is one of the better colors on these cars.
I'd probably lower this a little bit.
Might change up the wheels from the cup twos
that are sitting on it right now.
But this car sold for about $100,000,
which surprised me because the 993 market
seems pretty hot right now.
This must have just been a bad day on this car
because I looked through the comments
and there was nothing that really jumped out at me.
As to why the car didn't do well, the interior's nice.
Two things, the reason it didn't do well.
The photos and the presentation was poor.
The engagement was poor.
And the worst shots of the underside.
It was a Northeast car and the underside
had every piece of hardware seriously corroded.
Like you look at that, you're going to take the exhaust off.
Good luck.
And I think that's what killed it.
Probably could have benefited from a little ice blast
on the bottom or something to clean it up.
Would have spent three grand to do it
and probably gotten another 20 out of the car
because it's a great spec.
So that's car number one.
And then in a slightly different vein,
kind of the solid G-body, the best of the best of the G-bodies.
So this one's an 89 coupe in stone gray.
It's only got 29,000 miles.
This was absolutely a beautiful survivor kind of car.
And in the parlance of G-body cars,
89 is just as good as it got.
So to me, as a car that, you know,
this wouldn't be in its current condition
a car I would rally, unfortunately,
because I'd just be too afraid of it
because it's such a nice piece.
This one sold for 150.
And I think worth every penny of the 150.
Very, very nice car, beautifully presented.
And those are my two picks.
So which one would you guys go for here?
Which one would you take?
Neither.
No, no, no.
That's not an option, Paul.
You have to pick one or the other.
I don't like the 993s.
And like you said, the 89 is like, what do I do with it?
It's you're kind of like odometer fear, adding more miles,
stone chip fear, which I think it's funny.
Ironic it's stone gray and you're afraid to get stone chips.
So I would take the 89 probably.
I would say two at the end.
I think I would take the 89 also.
And that's a full car, too.
That's a really pretty color.
Yeah, I love venturing green.
I think it's great, but that that G body is awesome.
Looks like the headlight rings are black in that picture.
I can't necessarily tell.
I would make them body color install some H4s,
better than that.
I'm happy with that.
Which of those two cars would be easier to keep healthy long
term between the G body and then the G body all day long?
By far, right?
No comparison.
By far.
I just look at tons of records.
I think the 993 of any 911 ever built
is by far the most expensive car to maintain.
They just they're 10 pounds of shit in a five pound bag.
There's so much going on there.
They leak the end.
By the way, part of the reason I have a slight disdain for these cars
isn't because the cars are that bad,
but some of the buyers and sellers
are the worst people to deal with.
They're so neurotic.
Why is that?
Why do you think that is such a great deal?
Go get him going, please.
Don't give me go.
No, not shut up.
Sorry.
I'll just rant about.
He will.
Everyone asks.
So I was showing the 997 SJ,
but the guy was a car designer,
and he really started off one in 993,
and he was sort of priced out of the market.
So he's moving to a different car.
And we were talking about, and I said,
there's things design-wise, and I know the designer.
I know people just lose their mind over,
ooh, it's not because it's the last air quote.
They just like the design.
I mean, okay, yes, the ride height on that one's goofy,
but when you see a side elevation,
it looks so awkward.
The wheelbase is too short.
The overhang is too long.
The wheels sit too far.
They don't line up in the wheel wells.
There is shit.
Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
And then you add to it the fact
that it is so expensive to maintain.
The receipts are insane.
And then you've got these buyers and sellers
that you think are dealing with the hope diamond
every time they transact one,
and you just are losing your mind,
like, what is the origin story
of this one millimeter chip behind the rear wheel?
Take a breath, Paul. Take a breath.
And that is the Paul Ryan for Thanksgiving 2025.
Exactly.
Happy holidays, Ralph.
Happy holidays.
Well, guys, on that note,
because I do got to go catch a plane,
so I'm going to chime out,
but happy Thanksgiving to everyone here.
And I hope you guys have a great rest of the show,
and I'm going to bail.
Yep, happy Thanksgiving.
Travel safe.
See you.
All right, you later, guys.
Casey, you're up next.
So mine's pretty easy.
I've brought this car up before,
and I hate to reiterate it again,
but a super nice 914.6 in a cool color.
That one's Adriatic blue.
That car transacted for around 120 grand.
It was all numbers matching.
It was all right.
It's got Mali gas burner wheels on it,
which are cooler looking than Fuchs on that car.
And the other one,
I'm not a big fan of this color
because I look after four signal yellow cars,
but this is a 73S in signal yellow
that was done up super well.
I honestly thought it sold pretty cheap at 150 grand,
but it was a really nice option.
And when we were talking earlier,
there are times where I like old cars
because there's like that middle year kind of car.
Like my 968 felt like this,
where it was too new to be old and too old to be new.
If you know what I'm saying,
it kind of felt like you could daily it,
but you kind of couldn't.
My 911 doesn't necessarily feel like that,
but if I'm going to own a car for a long time,
I'm going to want a very different experience.
And an older car is going to provide me that,
even if I'm just driving around locally.
Cool?
Yeah.
Cool.
So Paul, which ones of those two would you pick?
I look, funny you mentioned the signal yellow, that car.
I almost picked that as one of my cars.
And Tim, we'll get to you.
I don't know why you struggle with this
because there was, I don't know, Casey,
I thought there was a lot of options under 150 grand.
I mean, we could have made it under 100.
No, I agree.
I agree.
I'll tell you last 10.
Tim, you just want like the perfect car
and you got to go like,
No dude, you didn't read what I wrote,
but continue with your Yammering.
All right.
So the signal yellow car,
the reason it sold cheap was when it was shiny,
it was pretty, it was fresh.
But my opinion was it looked like whoever put it together
hadn't put a lot of 911s together.
And Tim knows how hard it is to restore a 911.
It's to the point where if I were buying an early longhood,
I would almost want something a little tattered and unrestored
or just lightly refreshed and not disassembled
because they just are a bitch to restore right.
And that ass was shiny.
But when you really looked at it,
it was never going to be a number one car
without starting it all over again.
So the, the 914 Molly, you know,
I'm a sucker for Molly gas burners.
914 for me.
Yeah, me too.
Tim, 914 probably.
I'm not a big fan of Targus.
That would be, I'm glad Dave's not on to hear me say that.
But yeah, those, those would be my choices.
I mean, the 914, I've never,
I don't have an experience in those,
but just from being around them,
I love how frickin' tiny they are, you know,
and the roads that I would enjoy.
Okay, go ahead.
The inside of them, I mean, I'm 6'3
and there's tons of room inside of the car,
which is great.
I wish they were a lot more comfortable than,
than let's say a 73.
Like the, the Targa behind me,
914s are way more comfortable inside than those.
Yeah, well, I'm a midget, so it all works.
All right, Paul, you can go next.
This car, I felt, I, I like this car so much
that if this car came in in consignment,
this would be one of those ones.
I would really have to find something super wrong
to not keep it.
It's a 1966, 911 coupe.
And what I like about it is it was refurbished.
It wasn't quote restored.
It was just a nice good sort of driver that had a repaint.
The engine's numbers matching,
but it was built to a 2-2,
which is I think one of the best displacements
for an aluminum block short wheelbase.
And really, you know, one of the, you know,
the 66 is such a cool year.
They put webbers on it,
which is way better than the Soul-X.
It was the last year to have the wood dash.
I mean, 66 to me is a 356 long wheelbase.
It's very hand built,
filled in like the 356,
when you get to the long wheelbase early cars,
like 69 to 73,
they start to feel a little more mass produced.
And then, you know, this motor,
this 2-2S motor, or 2-2S style motor,
this thing must rip.
It's probably 190 horsepower.
Car probably weighs 2150.
And it is just such a, you know,
I would, I would, it was out of Oregon,
sold for 140, so 147 with these.
Honestly, I think, oh, and it's in dolphin gray.
And I think the, I think this car is sold,
undersold by at least 15%,
because the photos look like it's ivory.
And light ivory is not a desirable color.
It's the most common color.
I'm sorry, I was loading pictures.
Was that the one at the blue interior?
No, it's a black interior.
Oh, sorry.
And here's the thing,
like this is the stuff that,
that, and Dave would appreciate this.
So look at the seat,
there's a picture of the interior.
Now look at the seat,
the driver's seat with that pucker.
That is, when I see that, I go,
this seat is either restored properly
or refurbished properly,
because the way the pucker works
is there are strings pulling it down
to give the shape a contour.
So inside, there's a,
I've watched our, our upholstery guy next door to us
show us how this, this thread goes
and pulls the fabric down
so it gets that pucker.
Now what you see people doing
is they're actually creasing the seat
to have this faux pucker.
And when I see that, it's, it's, it's like,
that on the interior tells me they just cheaped out
or when you see on the outside where,
like the problem with your car will get to,
is look at the horn grills
and how the horn grills line up.
Like I see that, I'm like,
someone didn't know either how to do body work
or put the car together.
And I would rather have a car that's scuffy
and scruffed and not disassembled.
So anyway, this 66, I want a short wheelbase so bad.
And I don't know how I'm going to justify it
because going back to Matt's question,
I don't know what I would use it for.
I wouldn't, it's not a great long distance rally car.
Driving at Fridays up to the mountains would be fun,
but the traffic in LA coming back would suck.
And the only reason I don't have a short wheelbase
is A, I've got nine cars
and B, I don't know how to, how it would fit my lifestyle.
All right, so that's car number one.
Car number two.
You have to change your lifestyle around that car, right?
I mean, you'd have to get up to the crack of dawn
to drive when nobody was on the street
and you'd have to be timing
when you were going to leave, all that shit.
That's what happens when you're old.
And if you break down or, you know,
you got to make sure that look,
there's a lot of thought goes into it.
Yeah, the whole day has to be clear
because if it breaks down, my days screwed up.
I mean, they're exactly to your point, Tim.
The more I, this is a difference between lust and love.
And I lust after this car.
I don't know how I'm going to love it
if I have to keep forcing myself
to have date nights with my own car.
You're going to have to find one
that someone put every damn scent into,
like we've had on this show before,
where it was an open wallet,
like one of Casey's customers, frankly,
where they didn't even know how much money they spent
and everything is beyond perfect.
That would be what you'd have to.
But even if that, the problem with,
especially the early 911s,
they have to be driven regularly.
And if all of a sudden, like I'm only,
I'm only starting it once a month
just to force myself to drive it,
then what's the point of having it?
100%.
The other car I chose is, I don't know
if you guys saw this, it closed last week.
It is an 83 Euro 930 911 turbo.
It has 80 some thousand miles.
It's in a dark blue metallic paint.
And the best part was it was special ordered new
by one of my F1 heroes, Eddie Irvine.
And this is a picture of me a few years ago
on my birthday at Malibu Country Market.
My friend is good friends with Eddie Irvine.
And he was there and Eddie Irvine has a Countach
and him and I just hit it off great
talking about Countaches.
But he has great taste in cars.
If you read the auction,
there is so much hate for Eddie Irvine
as an F1 driver.
Why?
I think he came across as sort of a vocal.
It was like the first F1 driver that was a vocal loud mouth.
It was like before the Schumacher period
was like now we're going to create robots.
We're seeing a little bit of it
thanks to Netflix of the personalities coming back.
But Eddie Irvine was a big personality
and he didn't like a car.
He'd make it known.
And I know Jaguar, I think he raced
a little bit for Stuart Racing
before it became Jaguar.
And I think Jackie Stewart couldn't handle Eddie Irvine
because he just complained.
And rightly so, he was a top level driver
driving shit cars.
Anyway, so this 930, I saw Eddie Irvine.
It's dark blue.
It had enough miles on it.
It sold for 133, so almost 140.
It had enough miles on it that I didn't give a crap.
You can drive it black interior.
You know, I would call this a driver quality.
The engine, the car had sold previously
for about the same price a couple years ago.
And the guy who bought it had to drop $30,000 into it,
which here's my theory about 930s.
I tell my customers, when you're looking at a 930,
if you don't see a receipt for at least 20 grand
within the last five to 10 years, guess what?
You're it.
It's like musical chairs.
Your turn.
And so in case you've probably seen this,
930s have this tendency to sit.
And if there is a air-cooled Porsche that truly hates sitting,
it is a 930.
And the CIS heads get all messed up.
It's really bad.
Yeah.
And by the way, I know it's so funny.
We call Porsches we like, European Porsches,
rest of world.
We call Porsches that are from Europe
that we don't like gray market.
So the 930 gray market cars
have had such a bad connotation.
But the irony is, when you drive a properly done
true European 930, you begin to realize
how screwed we got as a North America market.
What a, first of all, people think,
oh, they stopped coming to the US
because of widow makers and killing doctors.
The reason they stopped coming in there,
they couldn't pass emissions.
And then by time we got them back in 86, you drove it.
And you're like, what is this thing?
So in consideration of our non-American people
who are not of a certain age,
they won't know what gray market is.
So gray market existed when essentially there was a,
you know, was the 80s mostly,
where the dollar and the euro,
or wasn't even the euro then,
but the dollar and the Deutsch mark and all this
and made sense to actually bring the cars over.
And there was no DOT rules to prevent you from doing it.
So you could go and bring over a new,
you know, 560 SL or there's a ton of 500 SLs
that are still floating around the United States.
And those cars, and you could actually,
and there are people that were bringing,
well, Dustin Hoffman, Rain Man,
that's what Tom Cruise was doing.
He was bringing over European cars.
So I mean, that was a whole big thing.
It didn't last very long, but.
No, it lasted for maybe seven, eight years.
And just a quick antidote story.
My dad had a 79 Mercedes two-door diesel.
And he and the US cars had those ugly headlights.
And the European headlights were so pretty.
And we went to a shop in our,
I grew up in the town of La Habra
that was doing the gray market DOT conversions.
Because Tim, you could bring it in,
you had to convert it to meet DOT specs.
And that was where all the gray market crap happened
because you got one of two things.
The guy who just flat out cheated,
didn't touch the car and did all the fake paperwork,
which in the end was probably the best
because they didn't screw it up.
But the guy who did the DOT conversion on the cheap
because part of the DOT conversion
of Mercedes Porsche, all these cars is,
you had to put door bars in, you had to take and,
and that is where they hacked the hell out of it.
So they got a bad reputation
because there was these in-betweeners
like and I was doing DOT conversions
and they were spot on.
But I remember my dad wanted Euro headlights
for his, his diesel.
We go to this shop that's doing the legal DOT conversions.
They're licensed by California.
He's throwing these near new headlights
in the dumpster, the brand new cars,
new headlights and bumpers,
all the Euro bumpers in the dumpster.
And my dad, I remember, and I was like, you know,
nine years old, my dad is arguing with the guy over price
because he's throwing them away anyway
because he legally has to throw them away.
And finally that I think the guy just got fed up
and said, you do it.
My dad hoists me into the dumpster
and I am pulling out brand new headlights.
He's like, no, that's for a 450 SEL.
No, that's for an SL.
And until we find his diesel headlights,
which are still on the car today.
So anyway, but anyway, so which was awesome.
Great story.
Eddie Irvine's 930.
I know what Tim's going to choose.
Or short wheelbase Nirvana.
You go first, Casey.
There's no question in my mind.
I'm not a I'm not a 930 guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
66 all the way.
I would go with the 66.
What is sense of occasion?
I tell you just that that noise in the smell.
Just perfect.
Yeah.
It's hard to explain to someone
if they've never had an air cool car.
I think you shouldn't be allowed to own a short wheelbase
until you first had a G body.
Then you had a long wheelbase.
Then you understand it.
And then you're allowed.
And maybe you should have a 356 first.
And then you're allowed to have a short wheelbase.
Because I think if you have the 356,
you might be done with porces after that.
Not going to 911.
Sorry.
No.
They're coming back on it.
I look after a really awesome.
It's Heron Gray over blue 356B Roadster,
which is probably $150,000 car.
That would have been a one that I would have thrown into this loop
because golly going out in that car on the right day,
it's like a it's like a TR3.
Yeah.
It's just when it hits right, it's perfect.
Yeah.
I hope everyone listening.
I hope everyone listening does give themselves the grace
to actually experience some of these old cars as intended.
Because it really does recalibrate your brain.
We're not just.
Oh, I'm going to say it, Paul.
We're not just waxing poetic because the cars are old.
And with the exception of Casey, we're old.
We're talking about them because they're truly
exceptional experiences that unless you get,
you know, go figure out how to drive one.
And you know, one of the comments I put in was
be very careful about what you're allowing yourself
or who you're allowing to influence you as far as
what your automotive tastes are.
Because you're not like Casey.
I mean, he's in his early 40s and he loves the same old stuff
that Paul and I like, you know, and you're going to find
that if you give you kind of pull back from the Insta,
pull back from the mass hysteria over the latest
and greatest, and I'm definitely guilty of that as well.
And you start falling, you start falling into this
sort of like, okay, I really like that,
even though I can't find any, you know, I think
that's the reason our podcast is doing so well,
to be honest with you, because all these weirdos
from around the world are loving what we love.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I just threw up a picture of my first car.
That's a 71 Triumph Spitfire.
And that's my second car next to it, a white 96 Jetta Trek.
That's my dad's 60 Corvette behind my Triumph.
How cool do the Spitfires work?
I look when you take off the rubber bumper, so honestly.
I never took mine off, but I love that car.
It was cool.
You drove it through a puddle and it would die
until it came, until it dried out and then came back to life.
That was a cool car.
Anyway, I digress.
All right, Tim, your turn.
That wasn't digress.
That was a good ad.
Oh, so Paul, we didn't ask you, which one would you pick?
Yep.
A short wheelbase.
I love a short wheelbase and I have to sell
two cars to justify my own personal.
I'm at that point where two out, one in.
I can't do one, one.
I can't certainly add.
I think the minute the right one comes along
and I have finally figured out what I'm going to use it for.
And what I kind of think I'm going to use it for
is a bunch of my friends do these little
half-day rallies on like a Sunday morning early.
We go to Malibu.
We drive Malibu Canyon, have a coffee,
and then get home before noon.
That's kind of what I can imagine using it for.
On a Sunday where there's not a bunch of morons on the road
and not a bunch of truck drivers
that are basically riding up your bump,
you know, with diesels and all the rest of it,
making your life miserable.
Then it's perfect.
Yeah. So this is the reason it was hard for me.
It's because I do have other cars
and I wanted to take your question
and Matt's question seriously.
So I had to put up some guardrails
and actually I talked with Julie
about what some of these would be
because, you know, 150,000, it's not chump change.
But so here are my rules
and maybe this will be helpful to Matt
and the other listeners.
So the car, whatever it would be,
unlike most of my others,
has to have room for stuff, including our daughter Zoe.
It can't be a crazy hot rod.
I've had too many of those.
And, you know, I love them by myself.
I have to talk Julie into getting into them with me.
But other than that, you know,
how did that don't want it anymore
other than our blue car?
It can't be too needy, right?
Must have this.
In other words, when I see the keys,
I want to grab for them or even better
if I have three or four sets of keys
that I'm trying to in my mind
decide which experience I want to have that day.
Has to be 95% OEM.
So it's easier to find parts.
And this is where I'm changing
as I've had more of these car experiences.
I don't necessarily, I don't want something
that has some crazy hybrid, you know,
one-of-one type situation
where I have to send it to some guy
in, you know, Southern California
who he's the only one that knows
how to put it back together.
I don't have that experience anymore.
And most importantly, and I know this sounds, you know,
but it has to be a car that Julia will want to drive.
And the reason is this
because I've got a bunch of other cars
and with the exception of the Miata,
she doesn't want to drive any of them,
which makes it so that it's a diminished experience
because ultimately I want to be able to go out
and enjoy the cars with Zoe and with Julie.
Because Zoe is at the point now
where she wants to go on drives with Dada
and Julie wants to go on drives with me.
And so they now compete and like it's kind of funny
to see like them going after each other
to see who goes on the ride with me.
I know it's nice, but just telling you the truth.
So I want something that's going to be able to suit
all parties' concern and take our French Bulldog.
All right. So there are my rules.
So can we call you Dada now?
No. No. No. No. No.
Yeah. Wow.
Come on.
I just heard that as funny.
Yeah. She still calls me dad at almost 12.
I love it, actually.
Yeah. Enjoy it.
She doesn't do that around her friends though.
Just the record.
All right. So I came up with and I thought about this
and I actually put effort into it,
which I don't really like having to do too long.
But it was kind of fun.
So I came up with the first one being,
which I know you guys won't like,
but a 1992 Porsche 911 Roadster.
And this car I think
I, I wish I'd had better notes on it. I could look it up, but I think this sold for 135 grand.
It was a manual transmission. It did have a backseat. It wasn't just a, you know, a box.
And yeah, so it would be either that and why because that's sold for it's sold for $110,000.
Okay, which I thought these 100, you know, 105. Does that car seem cheap to that price?
Honestly, I don't know how many miles we're on it. Well, it says 27,000.
But Repairodomner, my guess, American roadsters don't get a lot of miles on them. The weird thing
about American roadsters, and you kind of tie them in with 964 speedsters, I think the public
got it confused. They're like, why didn't they put the windshield from the speedster?
The speedster got a narrow body and a cool, slopey windshield with a cool cow.
And the 80 and then the American roadster got the wide body with just the normal cab thing.
So I think it was a combination of just poor people didn't understand it.
Yeah, but still, doesn't that seem like a cheap price for that car, even with the TMU?
I thought that was a really great price.
It is, but that's kind of what they're going for. They never really caught the love of
for what, you know, first of all, Porsche Cavaliers, 911 Cavaliers do not do well.
356 is due. But even like if this was a narrow body, the 964 narrow body cab sells for a half.
That would have been a $70,000 car if that 65.
But what's it? So what would be a G body, wide body?
Well, an M491 cab, if it's really low miles, that's probably one of the few that get really
close to the Coupe price because they're just strangely collectible. I don't understand
that market. But if it's a driver level M491 turbo look cab, they're probably 30 to 40% less than
the M491 Coupe. Let's talk about this just because our nerd friends will appreciate this.
Have you driven a 964 wide body non-turbo like this, this America Rudster? Have you driven one,
Paul? Have you driven a Quera 4, a Quera 4, which is the wide body?
The 94.
But that's a four wheel drive. So if you were to go, here's the only reason I'm asking the
question is because the wide body non-turbo G body cars, even the Speedster, having had one,
they're not that great to drive. And I'm sorry for saying that, but they feel it's 217 freaking
horsepower. And it isn't that wonderful. You're right. No, they're, they're
poser cars, the 89 Speedster's a poser car, the M491 turbo look, I think is people get
like those cars because it's easier to work on than the turbo, whatever.
I agree. They feel muted, they feel heavy, they feel slow. The American Rudster, I've always thought
was a really good value. But for whatever reason, when the top comes down, the price drops with it.
Well, yeah, unlike everything else on Planet Earth. Well, the America Rudster with a bigger
motor at the 3.6, and I'm just wondering if the added horsepower makes up for the weight,
but I bet it doesn't. No, it's, it's, no, they drive, I've driven an American
Roadster. I mean, 964s aren't revvy motors, they're just torquey motors. Right. And I think for the
buyer of that, which is not killing the canyons, they're driving down PCH. Yeah, it's the, it's
the take Zoe and the dog and the wife out and everyone's having a good time. I'm not driving
too fast. Yeah. All right. So here's what you asked for. It fits what you asked for.
Exactly. Here's my next car, 1979 11 s. It's obviously which one I would in
condo green currently for sale, European collectibles, and they also restored that car too.
Now, that car is not a number one car. I picked over the pictures, you were right about all
the things you mentioned on it. I think it was restored over a decade ago. I'm not going to
say anything about their pricing. It was more than what your limit was. But let's just say
that probably the market on something like that, given the condition is less. Okay.
That's what I was thinking is, is the price they listed for and what they would actually
sell for, I think would fit the criteria. Yes, sir. I agree completely. So, but that's a 1970.
So it's a 2.2 later, which is a very Revy motor, wonderful car, wonderful color, numbers matching,
blah, blah, blah, cool color. So between the two, Casey, what would you choose?
How bad is the, was the restoration pole? It's just driver. Like that is a car that
would be tough to restore to a number one because you would start over. So it fits Tim's thing. It
looks good. It'll, it presents well 99% of people who see it at cars and coffee will give a thumbs up.
They'll think it's mint and cherry. The collector, the high level collector will pass on it.
But it's dry. It's probably straight. It's rust free. You know, it's, it's,
it's always going to be a number two car. Yeah, it's a number two. I would say,
given the pictures of it, I mean, it's been on the road for 10 years. So it's a slightly
older restoration. But in my mind, that's a sweet spot. That is good because that's a lot of
shakedown. It totally. Well, Jay Leno says a restore to a number one and drive it to a number
three and then restore it again. Yep, exactly. Yeah, I'd pick the 70, no question. The, the
cabs through 964 and Carrera cabs and that Speedster you were talking about, they've
got a bit of cow shake. And I was never, I'm never a big fan of that. I don't, I don't
like wiggly cars. So I definitely pick the coupe. Yeah, I mean, when you really look at
air cooled engines, the purest hardcore purists will always say, and they don't really know it
until you've driven a lot, the two two s motor done right is probably one of the top air cooled
motors. I would say the two seven MFI RS motor, which most people don't realize,
they go, Oh, a two seven MFI, it's a seven R case, you know, the heavier duty case,
and they basically take a 72 7324 and make it to a two seven. What they don't realize is the
architecture of the two seven RS motor is based on the 2.2 liter motor because it's a 66 millimeter
counterweighted crankshaft. I don't know about the details of that. But it's just a yes.
Yes. Okay. So what what people realize is 72 the reason Porsche went to a 2.4 liter was because
the first the second stage of North America and world Japan also emissions came in. And what
happened is they had they can't sell a car that's slower. They had the lower compression to meet
emissions. So the way to make the engine make the same printed horsepower is they bump
displacement. And now what would happen was 71 and older, the way they built those motors was
very similar to the way they built their race motors, they're there, you know, these magnesium
throttle bodies, they were there was so much race stuff and high compression. In fact, the
two two motors, the one of the highest compression, I would say the 69 two liters,
probably the highest compression motor as a streetcar they sold back in the air cooled era.
And so it was when you get everyone like when you get a 72 73 and you drive it,
and it just feels a little muted. It's it's sort of like kind of held back. But the RS was built
as a high compression motor, similar to the two two. And, you know, konda green two two motor,
assuming that motors built the way it should be MFI. Once you've tasted that kind of motor,
it's hard to go back. So the I just did some research, the 2.2 liter does have the 66 millimeter
counterweighted. So that would be similar to like a 906 motor. The RS has a 70.4 stroke. So it
is stroked. I didn't check the border. But yeah, so the 2.2 liter would definitely rev rev faster
and with MFI be absolutely choice. Sorry, Casey, I didn't mean to talk over you. Paul's. I mean,
you do mean to talk over Paul. I don't mean to talk over you. So but case or I'm sorry, Paul does
bring up something interesting is the fact that oftentimes the cars have bigger displacement
to make up for a stronger emissions and also more weight because people want to put more crap on
their cars, they weigh more, they're naturally being, you know, suffocated. And so they put a
bigger, you know, whatever, whatever, and doesn't make for a better experience. And we just
described it on that 964 America Roadster. And those G bodies that are the wide bodies,
you know, the M 94 cars, they just get too fat. They just get to it doesn't feel like it's
supposed to feel like, yeah, for sure, the kind of green card be my, you know,
you would. So Paul, have you I mean, the market on those cars, they're asking, I think 169 or
170, that's a strong mid 150s car now. Yeah, I mean, this is we've talked about this before
with sort of people aging out of cars. I think long hoods really are getting fragmented
where you see driver levels and then a big gap to truly level one like concor collector grades.
Like, there is one of my clients locally that just got recently a 67 s original paint. It's
I think Polo red, it's got some nice patina super. I mean, how many 67 s is very complete
unrestored low miles are there left. And this car went for big money, where I mean,
it went for we're talking probably double what that kind of green car would go for.
You know, granted, it's a 67 s. It's not Polo red isn't like the Oh my God color.
But that's the difference between a collector level car, whether it's restored
properly like a like a, you know, there's some cars that roof has restored at a high level
or the factory versus like the con of green, which is a driver car. And if you want to get
that car to level one, you have to start pretty much over take it all apart, reassemble it.
How many parts on there are reproduction? How many parts are replacement? Is their fenders
replaced? And this is that and that's the thing is I find that the long hoods in the driver
quality are kind of harder to sell and there's fewer buyers. But me as an enthusiast for
I look at him going, man, when when when G bodies, Targas and coupes are going for 150,
they're lovely cars and they're collector grade. But boy, I think I'd rather have a driver grade
long hood. Describe the driving experience, either one of you between a short wheelbase
and a long wheelbase 911, because the difference in, you know, the difference in dimensions
is minuscule, relatively speaking, it's it's not even it's something about the car. It's also
don't forget it's a slab side car. It's a narrower car. It's it's lighter. It probably weighs I don't
know 100, 150 pounds less than a long. It's just a simpler car. And when you drive a truly stocked
the way the factory intended, by the way, they're supposed to be on 165 tires, the long wheelbases
are on 185 and everyone goes, Oh, I'm going to just put 205s. You run a 165 tire on a
short wheelbase, like a good tire, like a Pirelli CN 36. It is magic. It feels like you're out there
grabbing the front wheels and turning the car yourself. Like when they talk about Porsche
steering, which is probably even to this day, they make the best steering out there for cars.
When you drive a short wheelbase, you realize, Oh my God, this is distilled steering down to
the very purest form of why Porsche got this right. 356 is steer great. But the short wheelbase 911 on
165 tires, it's like fingertip. I mean, you feel everything you have complete control of the car.
You can feel it through the butt, the rear. So I just think it's just a such a connected experience
that when you get to the long wheelbase, just like any other 911 is you move through the
generations, they go, Hmm, the buyer wants a little more comfort, we need to add more weight,
we need to add more power. And we've been and they've been chasing that all. I mean,
the new Turbo S 4000 pound car with 700 horsepower. Yes, it's dynamically amazing.
But can you imagine if they dialed the horsepower back to 500 and yanked 1000 pounds out of that
car, which would taste better? Well, this goes back to what I was saying before. I hope everyone
gives themselves the opportunity to experience what these things are like. But I have to say
the first time I drove a short wheelbase car, it is little on the correct size tires.
It's a bit terrifying because it is so raw. There's nothing else like it really. And then you have all
the, you know, it's going to oversteer and all these sort of, you know, miss messaging crap
bounce around your head. That's exhilarating. Well, I mean, the ultimate rich guy racing
is that two liter cup that they run in Europe. I mean, there's nothing cooler than that.
And they build those engines, two liter 66 millimeter stroke motors to run basically
for three hours. So you can imagine, imagine the output of those things. So you have to
rebuild an engine every weekend, but it's insane. They recommend everybody check that out. It's
super cool. If you go to YouTube and just, you know, Google two liter challenge at 65 and older
cars, I believe, there is that one video clip where it's a two liter race at spa and you're
watching these two liter cars. Imagine coming into Enrush drifting into that dip and drifting
out of it and they are hauling the mail. And it is so awesome. It's like up there with like British
touring car, but in British touring car, they run into each other. And it's the coolest racing
out there. And Patrick Long, you know, he gets to race all these other vintage cars,
especially at Rensport. His favorite is, it says something as a Porsche factory driver
is to drive these two liter short wheel bases, you know, in rage and anger.
He says there's just nothing like it. Have you guys ever seen those classic minis
that are that are racing good, but it might not be the same idea? Oh my God. I don't even know. I
would never have the guts to drive those things like those guys do. It is freaking bonkers.
Oh yeah. Well, listen guys, that was our show. It's happy Thanksgiving for all of you. Thank
you for listening and watching us today. Remember, please do subscribe to the newsletter.
Just go to fullthrottletalk.com and we obviously adore. You know what, Paul? I think if you
don't mind, I put something, let's end the show with that comment that we got. We had a really,
really nice message from somebody. I'll find it if I can find it. I put it in the WhatsApp group,
I think. Yeah, it was really sweet. From Jeff, from Jeff Clark, I loved his message.
Can you guys grab that? I got it. I got it. From Jeff Clark, he said a really,
really kind message. It says it's 30 degrees outside. It's 5 a.m. and my unheated garage
registers 55 degrees. I've got a cup of coffee, a folding chair, maybe this month's octane magazine.
I just go and sit in the garage with my cars and it's immediate zen. A lot of my guys,
friends do that, do the same. Try explaining that to someone who doesn't have the Porsche
quote, tribal instinct end quote. You guys quote, get it quote. Well done, Jeff and Cincinnati.
Yeah, that's it. That's really sweet. So thank you for allowing us to do something
that we're really passionate about and please let other people know about this.
I said this at the top of the show in the message prior to the start of the show.
We're not trying to make this into something huge. We have no aspirations of, you know,
just all the silliness. We just want to keep this drilled down a community of like-minded folks
internationally, ideally. Yeah, and that's what it's all about. So thank you for allowing
us to live our passion of creating a podcast for all of you and please do subscribe to the newsletter,
let other people, other like-minded people know about the show as well. We certainly appreciate
your continued support. If you're looking for to show your gratitude, here's what you can do
and you'll feel amazing after you do this. I promise you, go to iTunes, give us a five-star
review and a pippy comment on why you love the show and instantly when you do that,
you're going to feel amazing. That's the recipe. You guys have a fantastic day. God bless you guys
and happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving, guys. Bye. See you.
About this episode
Thanksgiving brings a special episode filled with discussions about air-cooled Porsches, automotive news, and personal car stories. The hosts share their picks for air-cooled Porsches under $150k, debating the merits of a 1992 America Roadster versus a 1979 911 SC in condo green. They explore the nuances of driving experiences between short and long wheelbase models, while also reflecting on the joy of car ownership and the community built around their shared passion. Listeners are encouraged to engage with the show and share their own automotive experiences.
3.8
4.6-liter V8
4-CAM
air-cooled engine
BBI
Bring a Trailer
convertible top canvas
Cosworth
Fast Saturday
first gear syncro
Alpina B8
Alpina Z8
BMW 3 Series
BMW 5 Series
BMW M5
BMW New Class
BMW Z4
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Express
Chrysler 200
Dodge Viper
Fiat Panda
Ford Contour
Honda Civic
Hyundai Genesis
Lamborghini Countach
Mazda MX-5 / Miata
McLaren F1
Mercedes-Benz SL
MG Midget
Mini Classic
Porsche 356
Porsche 911
Porsche 914
Porsche 928
Porsche 944
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayman
Renault Wind
Renault ZOE
Toyota Land Cruiser
Volkswagen Bus
Volkswagen Jetta
Original notes
🦃 Happy Thanksgiving, FTT Crew!
This week’s Full Throttle Talk is a holiday feast of Porsche news, wild shop stories, a $20.6M GMA S1 LM sale, a listener question that gets painfully honest (“How do you stay happy with the cars you own?”), AND our Air-Cooled Porsche “This or That” under $150K.
This is the perfect Thanksgiving episode: equal parts gratitude, chaos, and questionable financial decisions.
🔧 Segment #1: What We Did in Cars This Week
Tim takes a Ferrari 296 GT3 from 20th → 2nd at Mid-Ohio (sim).
Paul returns to driving post-surgery with La Tortuga + a Gulf Blue ’74.
Casey bonds with the 911.
David revives a battered 911 dubbed “Panda,” sells it, then discovers a pre-delivery transmission surprise.
Moral: Don’t buy sight-unseen. Ever.
📰 Segment #2: Automotive News
Porsche Sonderwunsch Cayenne drama (designer hot take inside).
GMA S1 LM sells for $20.6M.
VW’s “Azul” Magic Bus returns after the Palisades fires.
Alpina B8 deep-dive by Hagerty.
Hyundai’s new Magma Concept—big vibes, big questions.
💭 Listener Question:
“How do you stay happy with the cars you own?”
We get real about fizz, purpose, emotional attachment, and the dangerous influence of other enthusiasts.
⚖️ This or That:
Two air-cooled Porsches under $150K you'd keep for 5–10 years.
Conda Green 911S, America Roadster, Dolphin Grey ’66, Eddie Irvine’s old 930, Aventura Green 993, and more.
👇 Want to be featured?
Drop your questions in the comments or DM us on IG.
We read everything. Even the unhinged stuff.
CONNECT WITH US:
Paul Kramer — 714-335-4911 | [email protected] | IG/FB: @autokennel
Casey Parkin — [email protected]
David Van Epps — 704-799-7680 | [email protected] | IG/FB: @sonderwerks
Tim Harris — 512-758-0206 (text only) | [email protected]
Full Throttle Talk
Tim Harris
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