The Classics And The Jokes, The House Cars, Abandoning Tech And Customers | Episode 1,019

Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to the

podcast. We're glad to have you with us.

This is SEMA week. Yeah, it is.

>> So, uh, happy Tuesday. But from now

through the end of the week, you were

just going to be bombarded with what the

heck is that?

>> I'm already seeing concepts announced by

manufacturers that they're they're

revealing it early because they're so

excited about whatever. And I'm

predicting a lot of more more safari

builds, off-road builds. I mean, I know

that's the show anyway, but

>> we're told there's a few reveals that

will get people excited. I think car

manufacturers are taking it more and

more seriously because of the reveal for

a certain market, the off-roading

market, but cars are kind of becoming a

thing, too. And I saw that Honda was

releasing some motor oil, too, like a

motor. So, anything goes.

>> That's the thing. You walk around SEMA

and we'll be there the Wednesday of this

week. In fact, tomorrow we'll actually

be there. And so, if you if you're at

SEMA tomorrow, if you're watching this

on Tuesday, you're at SEMA tomorrow and

you think you saw us, you did, please

say hello. We'd love to say hi. That'd

be really cool. There'll be all kinds of

weirdness. And and what's crazy is you

and I walk the show, we go pretty quick.

We see all our sponsors. It'll be very

fun.

>> Yes.

>> We always see lots of crazy stuff. We

take a ton of photos and we get home and

we're still like, where was that?

>> There's a bunch of stuff there that

we're like, I have no idea. We walked

every hallway. We never saw that. And

it's all madness. It's so very Vegas.

>> So, next week we'll talk about what we

saw at SEMA and the crazy things that

went on because that's there's always

stuff. But we're going to dive in this

week with other things. Uh, you had an

interesting discovery that you you found

that I think

>> might be my 12th car.

>> I was wondering that's why I thought

>> Thank you guys for engaging so much

about the 12 12car garage and so many of

you sent us your garages. And I'll be

honest, right after the podcast episode

ended, I think I changed two of mine and

then I started reading people's lists. I

was like, well, I forgot about that one

too, didn't I? I mean, it's a ongoing

thing, but this is fascinating from a

from a startup called Longbow. Longbow

in the UK, they have dropped the speed

Speedster prior, but now they have

introduced the Roadster. And I'm

wondering if either of these are that

12th car on your list, a space for a

small lightweight EV sports car. And

here they're doing it. Now, Longbo does

not have any production setup yet.

>> They don't have anything. They have

ambitious goals just like every startup

car company does and they have to.

>> But right now with the juicy stats,

>> a sub2,000 lb EV sports car with a 52 kW

battery, which isn't the biggest battery

ever, but it's a small car. And they're

saying when when driven in a spirited

manner, it would hopefully get at least

200 mi range. I mean, they're claiming

275, but at least 200 what they're

building. Yeah. you know, and uh at

least 270 horsepower, which is the

recipe because a small sports car like

this, you're not commuting and doing

long distances. I mean, maybe, but you

just it it's an A to A car.

>> Yes. But all but here's the other thing.

>> It's just a loop. You go do a drive,

charge it. 200 miles is I mean, one of

my favorite routes in my Elise on a

perfect Sunday morning is about 110

miles. One of my perfect routes from my

house. Okay. And and when you and I

drive up and we do Wolf Creek, one of

our places where we're shooting that

kind of stuff, we might do 150 in a day.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So there there's not there's not

that much distance you would drive for

something like this. And back to the

stats, 270 horsepower in the world of

EVs is you're not even trying. That's

one of your four motors on board. But

>> the Lotus Elise has less than 200

horsepower. The Exie, the big boy

Exieges have got like 260. Okay, it's

the same weight. It's two less than

2,000 lbs here. Those are the right

stats. The problem is this is supposed

to be a $100,000 car roughly. I mean

like $85,000

>> for or pounds or whatever. Is it pounds

or euros? It's British, isn't it?

British 110 $111,000 US

>> from a company that doesn't really have

anything to make this with.

>> They don't have a manufacturing partner.

Their ambitious goals are 10,000 cars by

the year 2030. That's nice.

>> We'll see.

>> We We will see. Let's get a few built

first and do proof of concept and some

crash testing and see how it goes before

we put a stake in the ground and claim

10,000 cars by 2030. But what I do love

is that they're doing it. There's no

startup car company that can

>> have everything sorted from design.

Everything is ready to go. Production

tooling. We've got a factory. We've got

a built-in uh network and

distributorship. And you have to

>> bite off all these pieces as you go. So

I completely understand, but at least

they're doing it. And it it is pretty

nice looking. The Speedster has no top

at all. The Roadster is not a

convertible. I just want to clarify.

Which a little weird. They should have

just called it a coupe.

>> I you know, the Speedster has no

windshield, no top, nothing. Which I I I

agree with Speedster, but Roadster

should be like target maybe. Yeah.

>> Okay. This is the coupe version, which I

actually think looks great. And and I

actually have a photo of it as well from

the side because I think it's

fascinating to see how kind of bizarre

and small this looks.

>> I think the Roadster helps it visually.

I think it's it's better looking as the

Roadster. The Speedster looks a bit odd.

>> There's the Speedster.

>> Uh but it looks cool, but it looks cool.

>> It's a fun, you know, you you put a

helmet on. Going to want a helmet.

>> At least at least some goggles. Yeah,

exactly.

>> You know, you it's an A to A car. Maybe

A to B, but you just take it for fun.

And that's the whole point of it

existing.

>> I'm intrigued by the idea. I mean,

people keep teasing this. They keep I'll

put go further. I'll make it personal.

They keep teasing me. We're going to

make a little cool electric sports car.

And I go, where is that? Nobody's really

done it yet. Or if they do it, they end

up with I'm sorry. We tripped and fell

and it's now 3,500 lb.

>> I, you know, I make a small light

electric and see what happens. I I hope

they succeed.

>> Prototype made out of graham crackers

and

>> pretty much Yeah.

>> cardboard and duct tape and then we skin

it. M here it is.

>> Well, at least they made one that isn't

and and I say this as an Elise fan,

isn't a rethought Lotus Elise. At least

they went, "Here's a new car." So, that

that's promising hopefully.

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>> Today's topic Tuesday is some more

predictions. Thank you guys for writing

in your 12 car perfect car lists and

other lists. It's been fun to be to see

those on YouTube comments and be

bombarded by emails and

>> Yeah, it's been really good. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. You guys have brought up cars that

I forgot about. Totally.

>> I thought what I want would I really

want that? It was a fun thought

exercise. So, we

>> can we say the Longbow is your 12th car

for now as a

>> placeholder. I That's This is why I have

that placeholder. I want a small light

EV. Let's hope the Longbow exists. I

mean, we're playing in Ma Magic madeup

money. Anyway, also the I thought the

discussion on YouTube

>> and in the email uh account was big with

the 12car garages. I was not prepared

for the scale of it on Discord.

Yeah, our patrons decided this was the

new world to live in and it was just I I

and thank you. All of our patrons are on

our Discord channel. So, if you support

the show at all at any level, you're

part of our really cool Discord

community. So, patreon.com everyday

driver. You can actually link from our

website if you'd like to be a part of

that community. It's a really, really

cool community. Many of the folks on

there become genuine friends. It's

really, really awesome.

>> I But I was just not prepared. I was not

prepared for the level of engagement

that that conversation got going on our

Discord. Everybody was like, "My list,

my list." And people are critiquing each

other's list and going, "I want your car

number three in my list. I'm throwing

out whatever." It was hu It was like a

dog pile for the last few days. It's

been really, really great.

>> But what I like about that so much is

that even though it's a fun thought

exercise at the very high end with

unlimited budgets, I like that everybody

is sort of learning about themselves as

you're working through your list and

then hopefully being able to apply it to

your real world budget for when you are

shopping. I think, okay, all right,

we've got metrics. I'm gonna stick to

this and I can really apply that future

thing. My dad always taught me to like

project yourself. Can you can you see

yourself traveling there or doing that

event or

>> interesting? Okay.

>> How how do you think you will feel when

you're there? And so when you apply this

sort of thought exercise to your actual

next car, your next budget, hopefully

that influences your emails that you

write to us. and then also you know what

uh what you end up getting and and you

uh you really work on that. But today's

top five list is a combination of emails

from Petrolhead 2003 on Instagram and an

email that we got from Andy L. Uh we're

kind of combining both of these and

restricting them a little bit more to

top five future classics and top five

future duds.

>> I called them the classics and the

jokes.

>> I like that classics and the memes. It's

it's ridiculous. But the key thing is we

did five, five and five. Five future

classic. Yes.

>> Five future jokes, duds, whatever you

want to call them, but within the last

five years because you could go back and

you could, you know, guess something

from 10, 15 years ago. So these are cars

that have to have been on sale new

within the last 5 years.

>> Doesn't mean they had to be introduced

in the last 5 years. That gets even

harder, by the way. True. On sale in the

last 5 years, which five we believe will

be classics. Which five we believe will

be just memes, jokes. We can't believe

that car was ever made. This was fun.

The email from Andy sort of added on to

the the top five uh kind of thing here

because he brought up five regions

>> Japanese, American, Korean, German, and

Italian.

>> I didn't go that far. Your list probably

is better than mine.

>> I I didn't quite make it on both lists.

And then Andy also said this could be

based on design and styling. This could

be, you know, influence everything to

make our choice. I like it. Top five

classics and top five jokes. The dud

cars never came so easily. I was firing

away. Oh, that's ugly. Oh, yeah, that's

ugly, too. Oh my gosh. And it just one

thing led to the other. So, I have

actually six on my ugly cars list. And I

think I've got a pretty good top five

classics list, but I I say dive in.

>> I've got a good top five classics and

I'll give you the reasons for all of

these. And the top five jokes, some of

them are obvious. And then I actually

paired that list down because I really

for the jokes and I'll get into that

further, but for the jokes I just

they're cars that I really think in 20

years we're going to go really just just

humans built

>> really. That's a thing that was for sale

and jokes. That's

>> we're going to hop in here on all of

this. And for my first one, it'll you'll

probably not be surprised, but I think

it's already reaching this status and

that is the Lexus LC500.

>> It is a classic. It's going to be a

classic. I think 20, 25 years from now,

people are still going to be buying

these and going, "Aren't these cool?" I

think that has to be on this list

because

>> it's gorgeous looking. And and and we've

talked about it many, many times before.

It this is not this is a full-on luxury

GT car. This is not the car you buy to

be your fun car. That's not its purpose.

This is a drive daily, go cross country.

Hey, this road is pretty cool. It is a

GT car. And this is as interesting as

Lexus gets right now. But the styling is

spectacular. It is timeless. And because

it's Lexus, I also think it's going to

help it be a classic because you're just

going to buy them knowing it will run.

>> True.

>> So that helps.

>> It's still on the website as a 2026

model.

>> Yes. And it's still there

>> and you can go find them for like 4550

the early ones, which is crazy that

there's that swap. It's a very cool car

when when that it's the other thing I

thought about for classics. It's

classics were going to look back on and

be like, "Oh, they don't sell that

anymore." But the longevity already with

this car from 2017, 2018, somewhere in

there, all the way to now,

>> we're talking like a good 10year run.

>> Yep. Agreed. Agreed. And I think it's

only becoming more beloved. As for lack

of a better way to put it, the car

industry is moving away from what this

is providing. Attractive naturally

aspirated engine, good uh good dynamics.

I mean, I think I think it's interesting

in that regard. The Jaguar F-Type. Oh,

>> specifically in manual if you can find

it.

>> That is pretty. That is a nice shot.

>> It's a great looking car. And they

actually just barely sold the manuals

till 2020, which was just inside the

refresh. I like the early ones quite a

bit. This is actually one of the refresh

cars. But the Jaguar F-Type is one of

those cars that every time we drive it,

it's better than we remembered it to be.

It's been overlooked. True. True.

>> It's been kind of forgotten. But I think

it's one of those cars, and and I'm

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not

making these cars equivalent, but I

think it's one of those cars kind of

like the original NSX,

>> okay,

>> where it got overlooked when it was

being sold new. Some people bought it

and then in 10 years everybody was like,

you remember how great those were? And

all of a sudden, they start climbing. I

think it's one of those cars. I think

the Jaguar F-Type has a potential to be

more interesting later, especially in

manual. The fact that they even ever

sold this car in manual is kind of

amazing.

>> Yeah. So Jaguar type is wonder what the

future anything type two door sports car

will be.

>> Well, but also back

>> go very badly.

>> Go very well.

>> Yes. But but but also the other reason

this is here is because of where Jaguar

appears to be headed. This is also

looking back with nostalgia in 10 years

and going Jaguar used to make that which

let's be honest we've done for the past

50 years with the E type. Save Ferris.

Save the manuals. Save Jaguar. Save the

anything type E type. So, we need a new

joke commercial of Matthew Brick

currently

in a Jaguar F-Type that's a manual and

then we've got it done

>> and highly recommend it if you can pick

one up.

>> If you can pick one up, I highly

recommend. Exactly right. That's where

we're going. Okay, moving on from that

to my next classic. It is the Integra

Type S.

>> No kidding.

>> I think when they stop selling this, no

kidding,

>> we're all going to go, "Oh, but those

are great cars." That's the thing we all

do as enthusiasts.

>> And used car sales spike.

>> Seriously, it's the thing we all do as

enthusiasts. We we we we see a car is

pretty cool. We decide on the reasons

it's not perfect. Because it's not

perfect or for budgets or whatever the

reasons are, we don't actually buy

enough of them when they're being made

and they stop making. We all go, "Wait,

wait, wait, wait. You stopped." But I

was just I was just getting started. 10

years from now, these are going to be

hanging on to value like crazy. I bet

you

>> you think so.

>> I think so because I think they're going

to be one of those cars that gets

discovered consistently over time.

>> Okay. Okay. I mean, manual transmission,

it is the the because we we know that

the Civic Type R is going to hang on to

value with people that want a Civic Type

R. We know that. But I think this is

going to be one of those sleeper cars

that if you have one of these in 10 or

15 years, people be like, "Oh, that

those are awesome.

I like your style."

>> Yeah. Integra Type S. So, that one's on

there for sure. Uh Cadillac CT5

Blackwing.

>> Wow. Okay. I don't know where Cadillac's

going. I don't I know they're going into

F1, but I was actually just passed with

a purpose on the freeway by the Escalade

IQ.

>> Really,

>> the Escalade Eek. He was very excited

about all of the power he had. He He

wanted us to all know he was powerful.

>> He He did it with a purpose. Here he

came for good. I mean, I was in I was in

my wife's Cayenne, which is no slouch,

but I saw him coming was just like, "You

know what, buddy? You just go. You and

all of your big electric power off you

go." But this is a last of the breed

car, which also helps cars to be

classic.

>> Manual transmission, rear wheel drive,

good executive sedan, 6.2 L supercharged

V8. Will this ever happen again? 6.2 L

supercharged V8 with a manual. Even

though Cadillac is talking about the CT5

Blackwing will be back, will it still be

a 6.2 L supercharged V8? I don't know. I

think this is

>> Yeah,

>> this is good enough styling to last as

well. It's not It's not the LC500. It's

not gorgeous.

>> Beautiful,

>> but it's not weird Cadillac. And they've

had plenty of weird Cadillac. They have

the the the Escalade Eek. Looks pretty

weird.

>> Optique.

>> Exactly. So, I think the CT5 Blackwing

is going to be one of those cars like

the the E39 M5 where in 20 years we're

going, "Those were great. Oh, you have

one of those? Oh, those are so cool.

Please tell me the Celeste is on your

ugly car list.

>> It isn't, but it could have been. Well,

here I will say this because that's the

opposite.

>> Spoiler alert. I will say this. I

restricted myself from making an all EV

list on the joke cars because it was

easy to go there with electrics. I was

like that one and that one and that one

and that one. It's like I got to stop.

>> I limited myself to two electrics out of

my five cuz it was easy with electrics.

Anyway, moving on. My last classic car

that I think is going to be a classic

has got to be the C8 Z06

because I think this is going to get

overlooked for a little while.

>> You have the standard C8 which they're

going to sell in volume and already are

and is an excellent car. The standard

C8. We just sold ours. Congratulations

to Marilyn, the new owner. It is she got

a phenomenal car. It's great. Just left

us and it's such a great car. The minute

we drove it to her to pick up, we

thought this is a great car.

>> It's a great car.

>> So, but they're going to sell a ton of

those. The Z06 was the bell of the ball

for five minutes until they announced

the ZR1. And now the ZR1 is out. The ZR1

will be a collector's item no matter

what. There'll be one wrapped in plastic

at Barrett auctions in 20 20 years.

>> All of them.

>> There's going to be guys at your local

Cars and Coffee with a C8 in 20 years.

That's a base one that they're going to

try to convince you is special because

it had a special paint color. Only made

one of them on this Tuesday. That'll

that'll happen. But the Z06, naturally

aspirated, flat plane crank.

>> Uhhuh. and able to be your track car or

your daily.

This is going to be one of those cars

like the C6 Z06 that I think some people

bought it, some people overlooked it,

and then in 10 or 15 years like, you

know, you can get one of those for this

amount of money. Oh, those are awesome.

We should get one. They don't make that

anymore.

>> C8 Z06, I think, is going to be the

overlooked child for a bit and rise to

interest later.

>> That's good list. Do you want to do your

classics? You want me to jump on?

>> We'll do the classics first. You should

jump in your classics.

>> We'll start with start with with those.

>> I am going to start out with

consistently the car I've called the

prettiest car currently on sale and the

prettiest car in generations. It is the

Amira.

>> What I like is that I didn't bring this

up.

Thank you. I'm thrilled you like it that

much.

>> Look at this. There's zero Porsches on

either of my lists. Classics or uglies?

>> All right. All right.

>> Classics are jokes. So, I'm starting out

with this Lotus Amira. The surfaces, the

proportions. You walk around, there

isn't an ugly angle. Every shot is a

money shot.

>> You look everywhere, and you're just

you're intrigued by the details, the

crisp themes, and the washouts, and how

they intersect. It is so superbly done.

And I'm admitting right now that many of

my choices are influenced by styling, of

course.

>> But that's why you buy a car. And the

biggest reason people love cars and

trade them out is because they are a

statement of your style. That's what

Harley Earl established in the late 20s,

1920s.

>> It's been a minute or two.

>> Been a minute or two. Yeah.

>> Cars are a fashion item. We that is an

extension of us. It is the the styling

reflects what the car can do. And so

none of these cars are necessarily tens

in every category, you know, on a track

or on a great mountain road or but it's

that desiraability factor that is mostly

influenced by styling. And so Emir is

top of my list.

>> I love that you think that. I I actually

kind of think it, but I also wasn't

going to say it since I own one, but I I

love that it affects you that much cuz I

spectacular. I think it's so great.

>> Just gorgeous. And next on my list, the

LC500. These two were very close for me.

What a classic. What an instant classic

designed by Ian Cartbiano. He was a

classmate at Art Center just uh ahead of

me and he has gone on to lead Cali's

design studio. So

>> that's could be why I'm liking a lot of

Toyota's current designs as well. I

think everything about this, there's

lines on there that would suggest they

would age poorly, but as a a whole, you

know, unique car, as the finished

product, everything works well and

interacts so well, and that is a a

hallmark of a great design, not just

proportion, but what those lines do as

you walk around the car. So, again, no

bad angles on this car.

>> That's really good. Yeah. Moving on to

the current Aston Martin 2025 Aston

Vantage.

>> Okay.

>> I liked the Vantage when it came out.

This this new style. It was about 5

years ago when it came out. It was the

refreshed Vantage. I liked it enough,

>> but it wasn't resolved to my eye. You

really didn't like it.

>> It mean when it first came out with this

weird bottom feeder trout nose after the

one that I love, the the early the 08

and on. I It's one of my all-time

favorite cars. I would totally own one

and I've wanted them since they were new

and couldn't afford one. And then they

brought it up with the next one. I was

like, why is that ugly all of a sudden?

Because a weird bottom feeder snout and

they've slowly revised it. I will admit

it's gotten pretty. It is beautiful to

my eye. It's got the Mercedes power

plant now in 2025. It's got a lot of

horsepower. The interior, you could say

it's a little bit uninteresting and a

little boring. The the shapes are very

clean and precise, but for that reason,

I think it's going to age very nicely.

It's not a lot of lines going everywhere

and a lot of surface breakup that uh

lowerric cars like the $30,000 sedan

market has to sort of entertain the

customer. What why am I buying this? It

can't be boring. I've got to be

entertained. It's got to be stuff to

look at. This is a a classic instantly

with these new design revisions. I think

it's absolutely spectacular. Moving on

to something that cannot be ignored. The

RF in particular,

>> the MX5 Miata RF is an instant classic.

>> Okay. All right. That's good.

>> Just gorgeous. I mean, you can barely

see the rear end of the car. This was I

I kind of wanted to show both, but this

is the current ND styling. And that

flying buttress on the RF car.

>> Absolutely. You walk around the back and

you just go, "Ah, that's just pretty."

>> You know what? What's interesting about

this design? It works on that tiny

shape, but if that car were twice its

size, it would still be attractive.

>> It's just the lines are so good. Being

being dimminitive helps it, but the

lines are so good. You could have a

large version of that car and it would

still be attractive.

>> Yeah. All right. Moving on to fifth on

my list, and this is more of a personal

choice for me. Very influenced by

styling and design, but I was captivated

by the Genesis G90, the current large

sedan. Not just proportionally, but what

Genesis has done to introduce new themes

on an old shape, an old threebox shape.

The sedan, you got the hood, you got the

passenger compartment, you got a trunk.

>> Mhm.

>> Design something that isn't a threebox

shape that really is cohesive and

beautiful. Again, my choices are very

design driven, but I think this has the

potential to be on the same level as

what we love about the late 90s, early

2000s BMW 740ils.

>> Whoa. I think it's absolutely overlooked

right now

>> by many people in this market and it's

just a beautiful object to have in your

life. The more you study it, the more

appreciation you have for the

sensitivity on this car. And it's not

great to drive, but it's great to drive.

>> It's just great to be in. And I think

this is on my list uh for that reason.

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>> I got I got to jump into the jokes here

this is one of those cars that oh it

divided people so much and that is the

Cybert truck I have to talk Cybertruck

>> up until the moment it came out there

were two two parties okay we had a

two-party system the I couldn't wait to

be more excited about this thing it's

going to revolutionize it's going to be

the greatest thing pickup Hiccups are

old and stupid and those of us going,

"Are we really doing this?"

>> Yes.

>> That you were in one of those two camps.

And then it came out and the camp

stayed, but they got farther apart.

>> The folks that were convinced it was

going to be awesome. It was awesome. It

was the great Have you seen Have you

heard? Oh my gosh, you've got to be

kidding. This is going to It's going to

outsell every vehicle ever made. I mean,

literally, we had comments like this on

some of our videos. How just wait a year

when this outsells everything else on

the market. There was legitimately a

comment on one of our videos that was

that and I was like really because I was

I was firmly in the other kit which is

not only did you do this but it still

looks like that and I think we can all

agree now this is a sales disaster.

Okay. And and and I have to come back to

the thing that I said on camera when we

first drove it. There are some

incredible engineering accomplishments

in this

>> and and clearly we have engineers tasked

with doing incredible things. This is

this is what Elon Musk is known for now.

It has been documented that he gets on

stage and just says we're doing this

>> and engineers somewhere behind the

scenes are like we're doing what? They

haven't even heard hasn't even been

brought up at a meeting yet. They're

like we're doing what now? And then they

have to go figure it out. So this

suggests yet again with the Cybertruck

that the best engineers out there are

working at Tesla. They are working

themselves to death.

>> Yeah. Well

>> at Tesla.

>> But this is a joke of a vehicle. It is a

joke. I mean you don't even have to look

far to see all of the problems, all of

the returns, all of the piled up

inventory. I think we can agree now. Not

a successful vehicle.

But wow, why do I keep seeing them

everywhere though? Well, but but

>> not a success. And there's a lot around

here.

>> How often do you see one that isn't

being used as a billboard for a

business?

>> Very few.

>> Like one in 10 is not wrapped to

advertise a business. Yeah. And we see a

decent amount, but it's always an

advertisement, which I think is crazy.

So anyway, there. But in a similar vein,

my only other EV cuz I could have I I

literally I had a list of five EVs

before I even started and I was like, I

got I got to back it off. It's too it's

it's too easy. The Hummer EV. Now, this

this also speaks to the other thing

about all of these joke cars because the

other thing about all of them, and

you'll note the the trend here is all of

the cars I'm bringing up, their

manufacturers were really excited about

them when they came out.

>> The brands that made them, these were

not cars that were released to no

fanfare. These were cars that were

released. All five of my cars were

released to a, "Have you seen what we

did? Have you seen our new whatever?"

>> The Hummer EV gets announced with a lot

of GM fanfare.

We're going to remake the Hummer the

least efficient vehicle ever. Ever.

Okay. Nothing about the original Hummer

economy was irrelevant. That we you know

what? We will bring This was literally

the American military thinking. And I'm

not saying this is the wrong thinking.

It's just that literally the thinking

was we will bring gas to the desert.

We'll just bring gas with us.

>> We know it doesn't burn. We'll just, you

know, we'll haul the tankers to fill the

Humvees.

>> Yes. Totally inefficient. Becomes a

phenomenon. They bring back the most

inefficient brand on the planet as an

EV, claiming it has EV cred, claiming it

has

anyway. But then because it's EV, they

can make it crazy powerful.

>> Uhhuh.

>> So they have WTF mode, which we all know

what that means, but if you're an actual

company, you can't have that on your

product. So it means watts to freedom

where it gets this behemoth which weighs

nearly 10,000 pounds down into the 3se

secondond range 0 to 60 and it crab

walks which no one actually needs. Looks

cool in a commercial. No one needs that.

Here's the thing. If you come up to a

couple of rocks in the back country, you

don't go crabwalk around. You just go

over them. Especially in this thing.

>> Yes. You No, you don't. No, you don't.

So anyway, so the other thing about this

Hummer EV, the reason I think it's a

joke is because I have seen a few. We

haven't driven it, I will admit.

>> I've seen a few

>> and nothing about this has the build

quality or presence of a $100,000

vehicle. Nothing about it.

>> Agreed. Yeah.

>> So Hummer EV, that's my last of my EVs.

I could have kept going with EVs, but I

didn't. I I went to other cars where it

was like, what were you thinking?

Manufacturers were excited about this.

>> This is the Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross.

You're trying not to laugh. Okay, now I

will admit I also found a bad picture on

purpose, but that was the whole

exercise. Go find the worst picture of

them.

>> Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi in the '9s.

Mitsubishi in the early 2000s.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Okay. They had a portfolio of product

and they had cars that were interesting

to the enthusiast. And we've talked

about it recently.

>> The Eclipse was one of them.

>> When the Eclipse crank came out, we were

all like, "Wait, what now? That's really

cool." Well, the first Eclipse.

>> I know. They sold a lot of them. They

had all-wheel drive, high performance

versions. The Eclipse was a thing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That '90s version. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> That But my point is that's a name that

has cred. Mitsubishi re-releases the

Eclipse as the Eclipse Cross.

Yet another five seat SUV thing that

should have been a wagon and isn't a

wagon and doesn't know what it is. Plus,

it has an obnoxious front end on it.

Mhm.

>> And I'm not showing a rear three/arter

shot because that is potentially worse.

Okay. This and this was to much fanfare.

We brought back the eclipse. No, you

didn't. This was also designed probably

before any AI influence.

>> Still looks like this. Still looks like

this. So anyway, the eclipse cross.

Moving on to more. What did you do here?

And that is BMW with the 7 series. The

current beaver teeth 7 series.

Take just just travel back in time with

me to the Pierce Brosman era of James

Bond

>> and the big seven series slabsided 7

series the the 50 the 40 those

phenomenal looking 7 series that I think

are all still living in our brains as

just this is what a 7 series can be at

that point that was the coolest

executive sedan being made. There was

not a cooler one and it was mostly just

that great styling which there's a guy

in my neighborhood that has one. That

car drives by still cool. still

unbelievably good-looking. Okay, now

we're here.

The current 7 series, I don't care how

big the rear screen is. It's TV sized. I

don't care how awesome the stereo is.

It's like 40 speakers. It's ugly. It's

heinous looking.

>> Yeah.

>> And it looks like they just don't care

anymore. We just put the tech on it and

wherever the pieces end up, that's the

styling. Oh, by the way, we'll chrome

the beaver teeth. What happened here?

the fact that the same company made that

really cool 7 series. I know I'm

ranting, really cool 7 series in the in

the late 90s, early 2000s and now

they're making this and they're trying

to pass this off as this is what you

should be buying. This is the emperor

has no clothes. If you get a guy in the

showroom, you convince him to buy this.

You it is the emperor has no clothes.

You have somehow convinced him and if

and if anybody buying this like I think

it's really pretty, that is you have

lost your mind.

>> Oh, all right. I'll get there. I have

comments. So anyway, so yeah, the seven

series, current 7 series, I just what

what's even going on with those lights?

>> I know lights can be small now, but

they're like layers of light.

>> The main light come out of

>> a hole.

>> And then there's just there's holes on

the side for the handles. I just there's

all kinds of bad decisions in one thing

that is designed to be your flagship.

>> Wow. And then while I'm here, I also

can't believe what's happened here. My

last one of the jokes, and I think it's

going to be a joke over time. the

updated Mini Countryman.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> This this this looks like a halfthought

through EV concept. And instead of being

any of what I've just mentioned, they

have gotten the mini brand to be big

cars now. They are indistinguishable

anywhere in the lineup. They're

indistinguishable from other cars being

sold as far as size is concerned. And

the styling has become less interesting.

Mhm.

>> And this styling I'm just I mean here's

even the Cooper the actual Cooper Coupe

is too big and looks weird. But this is

the most egregious one for me that the

Countryman used to be this interesting

alt that you bought. This is quite

interesting because you cover up the

badge on the nose.

>> Mhm.

>> What is this car?

>> Agreed.

>> Car designers look at every everybody's

looking at everybody. That's a cool

shape. I'd like to incorporate that. But

it doesn't necessarily play to brand.

And you see so many concepts with, hey,

it's the new thing, the new Ferrari, the

new whatever, and it has no feel of what

Ferrari has established throughout the

years. Now, there's some companies that

don't have a prior established look.

They're too new.

>> Fine. They can kind of do whatever, but

for for this,

>> cover up the badge on the nose and this

could be any car. Absolutely.

>> Anywhere on the planet.

>> Absolutely. and and and Mini was one of

the rare brands that had a style.

>> Yeah.

>> You just knew what a Mini was

>> and the marketing people leaned into

that and promoted that

>> and people bought them for that and you

have walked away from it and you have

this Countryman which I'm sorry but I

cannot think of a single compelling

reason if you were a prior Mini buyer to

even look at this and I think in 101 15

years it'll be one of those cars you

don't even see on the road. It'll have

all the same safety features, same

number of airbags, same number of cup

holders. It'll probably drive very

similarly.

>> It comes down to price and style.

>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, frankly, whatever

chassis this is on, I think it's the X1,

but X1, X3, doesn't matter. Whatever

chassis this is on, I would just say, as

much as I'm not a fan of BMW styling

right now, buy the BMW because you're

not buying anything Mini here.

>> Mhm.

>> Anyway, so that's my last of my list.

>> Great list. Yeah, I and I again I had

like seven EVs and I was like I got to

slow down.

>> I'm just going to limit myself to two.

>> Okay,

>> onward.

>> Well, starting us off with not EVs. I'm

with you there. There are a few. But

this is equal opportunity ugly because

it doesn't matter to me what the

powertrain is. It matters again

desiraability, styling, certainly how it

drives.

>> And topping my list is the new Nissan Z.

>> I get you're going to get letters.

>> People will disagree.

>> You're going to get letters. There's

going to be people in the comments right

now. Uh, it's decent to drive.

It's moderately fun. And I cannot

explain why Nissan Z sales have suddenly

exploded in comparison to the I guess

the end of the life of the the GR Supra.

>> Discounts.

>> I suppose initially too many discounts

now. That's really where we are.

>> But if it's just price and you were

waiting for this recipe and price is the

only thing that matters, there's still

some other options on the market. I

also, you know, you know what I also

think is happening here.

>> I actually think that the market rubber

band, I'm just guessing here. The market

rubber banded. Initially, there were

they were in the news.

>> There were none available and if you

could find one, it was massively marked

up. And I think everybody that was

vaguely interested walked away. And then

the market has recovered. And now I

think there's some of these sitting on

your lots and you're commuting by them

and going, they have one.

>> Yeah. I think that I think it's actually

people seeing them sitting on a lot and

knowing it's actually available

currently right now, especially if they

have more than one. It's like I could go

in and make a deal.

>> That could be that factor. Anyway, keep

going.

>> We like the Nismo version of this. The

Nismo version is the only way the new Z

should have been offered. The base

version shouldn't even been built.

>> I I agree. But the problem is, but yes,

>> to my eye, when this was introduced,

when we first saw the new Z, and this is

what it's going to look like, I already

thought it looked dated. I already

thought they shot themselves in the face

>> with bringing this out. Now,

>> Nissan was in a place where they

couldn't do too much brand new chassis

development. So, they kind of had to

take some of the old stuff, a lot of

it's based on the 370Z,

>> let's cobble together and get a new

model and make a few changes at low cost

to get it out. And that's business

decisions

>> for sure. And they put a great engine in

it and the fact that it existed all of

that's amazing truly. But

>> but this already this isn't very old.

>> Mhm.

>> And it already it looked dated when it

came out. I looked at this and thought I

>> it already looks old to my eye and I

don't know that this is going to age

very well because

>> I think there's better, lighter, more

engaging cars currently on sale and that

will surpass this so easily. So, if it

just comes down to price, I suppose

used, great bargain. But again, there's

other choices. Used that will still be

more fun. I just It didn't really speak

to me as a driver. It didn't speak to me

stylistically. It just seemed rehash.

>> Let's just half-hearted effort. They

they everything was so specifically

referenced on this car. They were

referencing all the Z's that came before

the nose versus just trying to make a

goodlook version of this car.

>> Yeah,

>> I I that I think that really I see that

very forced to me.

>> Second on my list, I was looking for

something Italian.

>> And even though I'm a big fan of

Maserati,

>> I don't think the MC20 is going to age

very well.

>> I think these are going to get very

cheap. I think people will look down

their noses, well, it's not a V8

supercar. It's a twin turbo V6. Even

though the power is incredible, it's

very fast. It's actually surprisingly

good to drive.

>> It's good to drive.

>> I don't like the brakes, but

surprisingly good.

>> Pedal is horrible,

>> but I don't know that this is

the best example of what the most

beautiful Maserati can be. I feel like

it's of its time

>> and I think it will be

>> overlooked and just not a compelling

thing to to go back and buy used.

>> I keep thinking about, man, what if I

had an MC20 and then about five more

cars pop into my mind that I would

rather have.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Even money aside.

>> Yeah.

>> Not even just equivalent dollars. Think

MC20. That would be cool. Well, you know

what would be cooler is

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> And I think it will continue to be that.

>> My runner up was the Fiat 500X, but that

is too easy. That is low hanging fruit.

>> That's easy. That's easy. Already a

joke. Yes.

>> Really? The conversely for Maserati, the

Gran Turismo.

>> Beautiful,

>> gorgeous, excellent to drive. Yeah.

>> It's too expensive new. Use those will

be a bargain. And I think those will be

great long term. M interesting. Okay.

>> But here using the same engine, I don't

think these are going to age very very

well and I don't think customers will be

interested. And Maserati is currently

wondering why aren't we selling more

MC20s? Why aren't we selling more of

these cars? They're being too

protective. They're being too secretive

and trying to treat Maserati, the brand,

like Ferrari can get away with or

Lamborghini and treat the customers

like, "Well, it's so special."

>> Is it though? Is it cuz there's better

cars to drive?

>> Okay. All right. That's controversial,

but I like it.

>> Now, I need to have you know that Todd

and I never consult each other on our

lists before we start the podcast.

>> Ever. Yeah. It's part of the fun.

>> The reason I was laughing earlier

is because of the overlap. too.

>> The more I see these, the SUV, the truck

version, and the more I think about

what was the design pro, the meetings,

the the entire gestation of redoing the

brand, bringing the Hummer brand back to

life and so many

uh red flags, I guess, but just

milestones of just here's how we should

actually approach.

>> We're driving toward we're driving

toward the cliff. 200 m, 100 m. We're

still driving toward the cliff. blew

right past all these warning signs. Just

throttle down, baby.

>> No. WTF, buddy. WTF. Watch to freedom

all the way to the cliff edge.

>> Yeah,

>> the Hummer EV. Yeah.

>> Nothing really is about is really

compelling. And everybody will try to

convince us, no, no, it just drives so

great. It's the best truck ever for

about five minutes.

>> Imagine this. You're proposing in the

design meeting. We have to back off on

the weight slightly so we don't have to

require our customers to get a CDL

because it might exceed 10,000 pounds.

And there's some bridges in the Midwest

United States that this cannot be driven

over because it will collapse the

bridge. It's so heavy. You know, there

were both memos and meetings about that.

>> Whatever. We blew right past those

warning signs.

>> Let's just keep going.

>> Yeah. The battery pack. The battery pack

that weighs as much as your average car.

The battery pack weighs like 3,500 lb.

Just the battery pack by itself.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Let's Let's stack up two

battery packs. While we're at it, let's

stack four and see what we come up with.

>> This This one is so so blatantly

obvious. And we do see them in Park

City. We see them in the original Target

form, truck form, and also in the SUV

form. And I also have to say, you go by,

I feel like any actual big Chevy dealer

lot, and they have these sitting on the

lot. They're available. We have not

driven them as you said, but it's the

perception of everything from the

powertrain to the styling, everything

about this. Such a giant turnoff because

then a company like Rivian comes along

>> and pretty much outdoes everything.

>> Yeah. And it's too heavy, but it's 3,000

lb lighter,

>> which is crazy.

>> And that Wow. There's some impressive,

you know, fresh take on things. And they

didn't need to double stack the battery.

And I I don't think these things will be

worth very much used and I don't think

people will want to buy them.

>> Well, but also we're talking about the

jokes. I mean, 10 years from now, this

is going to be a joke car.

>> Yeah,

>> it is.

>> What do you do with this? Is this the

future YouTuber car for you got it for

$12,000 and

>> somewhere somewhere right now as we

record this or when you listen to this,

I guarantee you some owner is talking

about the crabwalk feature that they've

never actually needed. It'll do it.

They'll never actually need it. Let me

show it off in the local parking lot of

the Walmart.

>> They're going to they're going to show

it off as a way to to get into or out of

a parallel parking space.

>> Yeah. Anyway,

>> but that isn't the vehicle that I loathe

the most.

>> Okay. We over overlapped in reverse

order. The Cyber Truck is back,

everybody.

>> The Cybert truck belongs here, too,

because the more I see of these, the

more I see them driving around,

>> the more I loathe this thing. I I I do

not like the styling. I do not like And

I'm throwing out Tesla. I'm throwing out

Elon Musk. I'm just as a vehicle.

>> Sure.

>> And I have to acknowledge, you're

absolutely right. There's some

technological marvels here. There's

>> Wow, that was really well thought

through, but the end result makes it

feel like an EV Aztec.

>> Yes, that's a great description. Yes.

And and you're right. If you separate it

from all of the hype and the politics

and the whatever,

>> separating everything. This drops from

the sky. Doesn't matter what brand it

is. Are you kidding?

>> It doesn't look good on the road.

There's no angle where it looks good.

forcing stainless steel to be the

material of choice to build this thing

out of

>> to have but it overcomes everything. It

It can out accelerate everything.

>> Everybody claims, "Well, you'll never go

back to normal steering." Yeah, I will.

>> Yep. I mean, I'm amazed with what they

did. I I'm fascinated by it's

unbelievable that you did this drive by

wire thing and the steering works at

different speeds. That's incredible. If

you like that, great. Choose it.

>> Yeah. But I don't

I have to temper this because I admire

what Tesla has done. But again, it feels

so forced. Nothing about this is is

comes easily.

>> It's so forced. We forced it to happen.

And then running into things like the

wiper just flies off or just inverts

itself in a rainstorm. It becomes

useless.

>> There's But sorry, you said the the

number of things that you won't believe

that this happens. Yes. tried and true

things that just work.

Yeah, it's not innovative necessarily,

but then the innovation hasn't been so

well thought out that

>> we just tried it and you, the customer,

have to live with it.

>> Sorry,

>> took your money though.

>> It feels like some brand, Tesla,

whoever, some brand's new moonshot

thing, they aren't going to sell, but

they're going to show you all the cool

stuff they can do, and it's just the

weird design to get everybody to notice

at the auto show and to get all the

press. We're not selling that. We're not

selling that. We're just showing you

what we can do and all this technology

is going to trickle down into our more

normal cars. This is Tesla selling that

thing that shouldn't have ever been sold

as just kind of look everything we can

do and the everything they can do.

Impressive. But it's wrapped in that

package. It looks like that.

>> It looks and it keeps looking. And

here's the thing. I don't care how you

wrap it. I don't care what color you

wrap it in. I don't care what billboard

you put on it. Every time I see one of

these in the wild, it looks weird. Every

time I see one photographed though, it

looks like a digital creation. It

doesn't look like an actual photo. It

looks like AI and I know it's a photo.

>> Is this origami? Like what am I doing?

>> So funny. It looks like an 8bit thing in

a real world. Anyway, yeah.

>> Again, equal opportunity ugly. It wasn't

necessarily pointed at EVs,

>> but BMW has gone through the same series

as well. Oh my god.

>> The 7 series and the i7 in particular,

they are very close to each other.

Showing here is the i7.

The 7 series was always described to me

as the aspirational car. BMW wants to

start you out with a 3 series and as you

progress through your earning potential

and your career, you move up to a 5

series and then oh man, that showroom,

they've got a new seven series. I can't

wait to become middle management or

executive and move on up to a seven

series.

>> Why? Why this this

>> I Oh,

>> it's hard to describe. You're

>> making a great point. the lo. Let's take

the front of it off.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Pretty much anything would look better.

>> Well, but but also to that point, even

if you replace the front end on the 7

series, nothing about the rest of the

design looks like anybody cared. The

rest of the design looks like we just we

phoned it in. Absolutely. But the rest

of the design, let's take styling out of

it.

>> Mhm.

>> Mechanically, yeah, there's other cars

that'll do this.

>> Yeah.

>> There's the 760. Well, they discontinued

the V12. So, it just has that twin turbo

V8 in it.

>> Yeah, there's other big sedans that are

powerful and fast. I mean, the G90 is

one of them in my opinion, but hey,

we've got this. And

>> I just don't understand the the

thinking, the progression, and where we

went off the rails. It's like they

called GM way off the rails.

>> We just blew past these warning signs.

Just

>> we'll follow you off the cliff. Go for

it.

>> Here we go. Let's go together. We'll

hold hands. the, you know, you had to

walk by the G90 that you brought up. You

had to walk by the current Audi A8,

which by the way isn't the best looking

A8 by a long shot, but you walked by it.

>> The beauty queen next to this. You

walked by the new current S-Class.

>> Yeah.

>> To wind up here.

>> I I don't understand the thinking. Did

anybody at BMW actually stand back when

they created the mockup and think, you

know, it's ugly. We should stop and redo

things. It's not too late. But now that

it's in the sheet metal, it's too late.

>> Gosh, that's so Wow. All right. It's so

funny that you and I actually overlap

because again, we never talk about these

lists prior. We just dive in. It's very

fun. Oh, you went further. Okay. I had a

sixth. Equal opportunity ugly. It

doesn't matter. It's EV or not.

>> I think this is controversial for you to

bring up the ID.

>> Don't think this will be a winner. I

don't think it brings back everybody.

Oh, I love the Volkswagen bus. The bus

is so cool. The old bus. and it remains

cool.

>> This one, I'm trying to imagine this

with a gas engine, too. Let's take EV

aside. What if it had a gas engine,

>> which is how it started, by the way.

>> Yes.

>> Like 10 years ago, you and I were on a

shoot and six of these drove by on a on

a back road in California. They were

being tested for California at the time.

And if I remember correctly, they were

called the California.

>> They were called the California.

Correct.

>> And they had a gas engine in the back,

and it eventually became the ID Buzz.

Let's imagine it's got a gas engine,

maybe even a flat six in the back or

something. I It's just a minivan. It It

doesn't look really compelling and it

doesn't necessarily do anything that

other minivans on the market. It didn't

really set itself aside. They just

abandon that for the typical platform,

the EV platform.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't think anything about this is

cool or has the cool factor or the get

away from it all or change your

lifestyle. It's just another people

hauler. M.

>> So what about it should Volkswagen do to

bring the dollars out of out of their

customers wallets? What what can they do

to extract the dollars?

>> You got choice when you're shopping in

this market. And you know what? At this

level, there's a lot of other SUVs that

are better looking and drive better and

will be better than this thing. I think

this is a disaster.

>> There was such hope. There was such

opportunity.

>> 10, 20 years from now, I think it'll be

interesting to see what people think of

these.

>> I don't think it'll matter. I I was I

was fascinated by the fact that we did

see the gas version called the

California a decade plus ago when we

were on a shoot. It was the if memory

serves it was the Focus RS and Civic

Type R prior Civic Type R. There were at

least three of them that came up that

road that was ohigh highway 33 came up

there and we were like there they are

moving and we thought at the time if

they're testing them at that level they

got to be close to coming out and then

they went radio silent for a while and

it popped back up as the ID buzz. I h

you're going to get more letters there,

but I think it I think you're probably

right.

>> It's currently not a sales success.

>> True, true, true. Yeah,

>> I mean, and that's brand new. That's

shiny new thing.

>> If you've got a list, an idea like any

of these that we've done in the past,

please write to us

[email protected].

We'd love to hear from you. And many of

you have been, like I said, writing your

lists and we're combining things to to

really make it hopefully succinct. And

uh please agree, please disagree. Want

to hear from me either way.

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I don't know that we do succinct on our

topic Tuesdays, but we like the the

discussion of all of them, and that's

one of the fun things. Thank you guys,

as Paul said, for sending all of them

in. We're going to do some quick updates

from Hooked on Driving. There are some

really cool track days coming up. And

then we got two car debates. We've got

car conclusions, questions, lots more

coming up. So, we're going to go quick.

Pit race, if you haven't heard, is

closing. That's in Pennsylvania. And

it's really too bad that it's closing.

It's becoming a data center. That's not

a joke. That's a reality. It's it's

becoming a data center. But, you know,

you have race here's I hate to say it,

but racetracks are hard to keep open.

>> Once that land becomes really valuable,

it's hard to keep a racetrack open. The

margins are thin. developers just think

data center

>> seriously. So data center is what they

anyway. So that's happening. So that's

closing but Hooked on Driving has the

last ever HPDE at pit race November 8th

and 9th. Our Northeast region Cody and

Santi are killing it up there and

they're doing the last ever pit race

HPDE through Hooked on Driving. You can

sign up right now. We have Thunder Hill

Raceway coming. The three-mile uh setup

of that track is coming to NorCal

Saturday, September 15th and Sunday the

16th. and VIR, that is right, Virginia

International Raceway with our

Mid-Atlantic region is happening. If you

if okay, you've had Thanksgiving.

You've done all of the eating. You've

done you've done too much eating. Yes.

>> You've seen too much family.

>> You'd really like to just go for a drive

and clear your head. VIR, the weekend

after Thanksgiving, the Saturday and

Sunday after Thanksgiving, the 29th and

30th, that is happening. Registration is

open now. Those are all on their way.

So, we'd love for you to come to those.

There's more events happening and and a

couple that Paul and I are going to

later in the year which is really cool.

Also, we're letting you know again

you've ever wanted to take your spouse

to Europe, maybe Spain and Portugal, you

should do that with Hooked on Driving

and you can actually get on a couple of

racetracks and then build a larger trip

out of it. It's it's really cool. This

is actually a very spouse-friendly trip.

It's happening April 24th through 29th,

2026. Circuit de Seilla, right outside

Seville and Portoau in Portugal. There's

going to be amazing hotels. There's

going to be actually a walking tour of

Seville one day.

>> The Portoau Hotel is on the beach.

>> Yeah, it's right on the beach.

>> It's very cool. This is a very spouse,

great driving, great scenery. Yeah, it's

all you got to come. So, hooked

ondriving.com for all of these dates.

>> Our first car debate comes to us from

Jose. He writes to us as a short

attention span man.

>> He discovered us just a couple months

ago, but he's going back and listening

to old episodes. Jose, thank you for

being with us. He feels like every time

that he buys a car, he feels like this

is the one. He's going to keep it. This

is it.

>> We're done.

>> He's the only one that's ever had that

thought. It's just It's just you, Jose.

Yeah.

>> Seems like his MMO is to buy a car,

enjoy the novelty while he makes it

cosmetically fresh. Gets bored by it as

soon as he's done with that, and then he

sells it. He is not proud of this

behavior. He wants to change. He doesn't

need to buy a forever car, but it would

be delightful to be able to enjoy a car

for at least three years or slightly

longer before he gets bored. The

previous fun cars he's listed below a

ton of them with no overlaps. And he

says these are fun cars that he bought

thinking of fun and fun styling and how

they make him feel, not utility. Include

an05 Mini Cooper S automatic. Like it

2020 Mini Cooper S automatic. Okay. Also

lots of fun. Felt it was nimble. Glued

to the road fast enough. got bored, sold

it, got his E3M Roadster, the S52. That

>> That's great. Really cool.

>> Yeah, that car introduced him to rear

wheel drive fun. He loved how tailappy

it is, but he moved on it on from it

quickly because he could make money and

he didn't love the color.

>> The first Porsche Boxster S.

He bought it thinking it was an upgrade

to the Z3M. He still believes it is.

Then he went to a Porsche 911 997

generation. He had wanted one for a long

time. And when he finally owned one, he

found it to be too fast and too good. So

he it was so good it was boring.

>> It was more car than he needed. It was

boring in his normal driving. I see it.

Okay.

>> BMW 330 ZHP automatic which normally

right there it's like and I found the

car too good to be that interesting. He

was like bought it, had it for a while,

sold it again. And guess what? Then

another Boxster on another 986. Back to

what he called his happy car. It was

great. Lasted a year before boredom hit.

>> Bam.

>> Good as it was, he's had two already.

feels like he's done with it. Now, Jose,

I want to stop here real quick and we've

got some family cars and other stuff to

talk about. You are in with friends

here, my friend. You we we are all

friends here. We all have the same

thing. We call it the car disease. There

is no known cure. And it's okay. And

some of us have had 10 cars in our

lives. Some of us had I'm thinking of

Kareem writes in.

>> True.

>> He's Are you at 80 yet, Kareem? Because

I think so. I think he's he's close to

80.

>> Did the Cadillac go away?

>> I think it did.

>> Oh, man. Anyway, he just keeps selling

cars and buying cars and his

>> choice is excellent. It's just, you

know, so anyway, so it doesn't matter

that I I here's the thing. I don't want

to give you stress thinking you have to

solve this problem in you.

>> We say it before. Don't change spouses,

change cars. Okay? It's just it's a lot

less dramatic. It's fine. It's all good.

So So Jose, I want to encourage you

there. But you've you've had all these

cars, but then you also have other cars

in your life. You call these the house

cars. I've never heard that term before.

I love it either. I know exactly what

you mean when you say it. A Macan S and

a Wrangler 4xe. The Macan is kind of

feels as easy to drive as a video game

car. Interesting to have that

description. The 4xe is the one he

drives when he takes his kids to school

or activities. It sucks on the highway.

Yep. But at least it has an open top and

you can climb over fun stuff. So he's

hoping to replace the 4xe with the Scout

Traveler. Okay. So, the Scout, the

Rivian

>> partnership with Volkswagen that makes

us a Scout. It is cool looking. It just

looks a lot like a Rivian. So, anyway,

so that means we're just shopping for

third car. Your your normal your house

cars. House cars. I'm sorry using that

term. I really like that. Our house cars

are these. My fun cars are these. The

house cars are those. Yeah.

>> House cars are solved. Fun car only. He

thinks the sweet spot. There it is for

you, Paul. Ding- ding. is something

somewhat fast, maybe an analog feel with

some modern safety features. Now, I want

all of you to lock in those features

that he's just mentioned because then we

get wild from here. Somewhat fast, maybe

analog with some modern safety features.

Engagement is important. And then he

lists the things he's already looking at

and we break many of those rules right

away. Jose suggests a mid80s Alfa Romeo

GTV6.

Plastic cassettes, good old rattles.

He's worried about reliability even on

well-maintained examples. But at the

same time, isn't that part of the

Italian car experience?

>> Sure. We'll we'll just say yes.

>> Yes.

>> Jose is good at cosmetic fixes, but he's

not mechanically inclined.

>> He also suggests a diesel Mercedes W123

wagon. The green over tan.

>> Yes, just run to a wagon. Just diesel

Mercedes wagon. All your problems will

be solved. It'll be your forever car.

>> Sure.

>> I don't think that will last very long.

No. How about another S52 Z3M Roadster?

Well, you've had two boxers. Why not two

Z3Ms?

>> We haven't had two of these yet. Yeah.

Okay. Another 2020ish Mini Caper S.

Well, you've had two. How about a third?

>> Mhm.

>> He lists a Saab 900 SPG, the Special

Performance Group Saab 900. My

brother-in-law Daniel is cheering you

right now for the Saab. He has I think

they've got five. I've kind of lost

track, but a lot of Saabs born from

Jets. I had to put up a Saab SPG actual

photo from the actual advertising. Here

is the 900 SPG going down a road in an

old ad and the shadow behind it is of

the Saab jet. That's how born from jets

they want you to believe this is

>> just they're just it's it's just like a

jet

>> interlin. It's just like a jet. Anyway,

moving on. Daniel and I have actually

been having discussions about how cops

have reported when they go to accident

scenes, the cars that are the Saabs and

people that are in the Saabs are far

better protected because of the

engineering. And yes, they did put a lot

of engineering into it. But over time,

manufacturers found better, cheaper ways

to build cars. I guess they weren't

better necessarily, but certainly less

expensive ways. And so quality has

suffered. But those Saab 900s, yeah,

they are really cool. They're they're

built well. And uh I've been fortunate

to drive a few of Daniel's out of his

collection.

>> Collection so you can just go try it.

Yeah.

>> And my sister now has a a Saab wagon.

>> Of course. And of course she does.

>> The turbo

>> hose or it was actually the uh

electronic actuator that actually made

the turbo come into boost and and get

activated.

>> Apparently that was off. And she was

wondering why is my car a dog and why is

it so slow? And they took it to the

mechanic. He hooked it up and she's like

I love my sub. It's super fast and he's

getting daily triples. So, there's good

news there, everyone. First,

>> anyway,

>> first gen Audi TT is next on the list.

That 3.2 VR6 engine. So, Jose, I love a

lot of your suggestions. Jose needs our

help desperately.

>> You need first permission to keep doing

what you're doing.

>> We are here to enable you, my friend. I

suppose for sure. Yes.

>> Because I love that you're getting all

these experiences. And at first, Jose, I

thought,

>> is a more expensive car the answer?

because it's easy to rocket through a

lot of inexpensive cars and just do the

flip and you have it for a year, you got

it for two years and then boredom hits

like you said and you can just choose a

lot of inexpensive cars and well I

haven't tried that and you know Fiesta

STS and just rock it through stuff but

then where does it end or does it ever

end

>> or does it need to end

>> or does it need to end? So you you've

got permission to continue on and

there's so many cars that you haven't

experienced yet. Yeah, go get yourself a

$9,000 Fiesta ST and you'll cackle for

well until boredom hits.

>> Well, until Yeah, until it it's dirty

apparently because I feel like these

have to look nice and then he's not

doesn't like it anymore. But okay,

>> but then I thought people at the

high-end wealthy individuals do the same

thing with expensive luxury cars. True.

They just lease them. They've got them

for 9 months and they get bored and the

next Bentley comes out.

>> Maybe that's who's buying the BMW 7.

Just I'll have that for 6 months anyway.

Did you buy it in the dark? Were you

blindfolded? Like what happened? Did you

not hear the gun go off? Like what

happened?

>> Turned on my computer screen and clicked

buy. Anyway,

>> what happened with that thing? So I

thought maybe not because expensive car,

well then you're just having it longer

because it's so expensive and then

you're you're spending more and it would

prevent you from driving it because wow,

it's too expensive and the value is

going to go down or might go over mile

on my lease. And so that's not the

answer. I thought about something slower

to try to extract more out of the I I've

got to learn to really carry my

momentum. I mean, maybe that's the

answer, but you've had some good cars

and they're decently quick and fun to

drive, so maybe that's not the answer.

And then I thought about what about a

project car? If you put all the blood,

sweat, and tears into a project car and

you make it yours, like that old alpha,

and you find cassettes and like, wow,

Aba from the 80s.

Let's see what that sounds like. Car's

greatest hits. Always works. There you

go. Yeah.

>> I thought about a project car, but you

said you're cosmetically inclined, not

mechanically. But

>> what if you learned to rebuild something

major?

>> Pick a major thing about the car and you

built it and you became one and all your

money went into it and it was yours and

because I built it and

>> I don't know that that would hang on any

better, but we it's a good idea. I

>> don't think so.

So, I have decided you need a culde-sac

car. It's the RF again. It comes back

around

>> because long-term that's going to be a

gorgeous car. Fun to drive. The ND3,

you're going to go get yourself a brand

new one.

>> You're going to love it. You're going to

drive it. And then you're going to

realize

>> there really isn't another car like this

on the market that drives so well and as

fun as it is and looks so great. But

there might be.

>> Oh, okay. But you yourself have another

one. What is the original culde-sac car

that Todd coined

>> years ago and said, "It's a culde-sac

car. I can't go anywhere else because

nothing else is like it." A Lotus Elise

>> and that's it.

>> And maybe it stops there and you keep

the Lotus forever because nothing else

drives like it. And any future sports

car

>> is a fourth.

>> Wow. and add and

>> look at you. Well, I mean, we're all

trying to get all of us have cars we

need. That's that's really where we're

headed.

>> The original call to

>> Hey, I I would I would like all of you

to note and I would like all of you to

remember

>> that we have had an entire podcast and

it's going to continue because I feel

confident it's going to continue after

this. We've had an entire podcast

episode where I didn't bring up Lotus

and Paul did. So, I'm just, you know,

it's not always me. I That's all I'm

saying. It's just not always me.

>> It's not just me. I'm not crazy,

>> you know. Yeah. Anyway, that that's

excellent. I'm always happy to see and

lease mentioned. Uh Jose, I want to run

through your list real quick and just

kind of uh poke holes in it a bit

because I want you to ponder what you've

sent us versus the list you sent us.

>> You get bored quick when things aren't

perfect and then you've said maybe an

80s alpha.

>> No, not perfect. Not not I mean looks

really cool until it gets dirty and

nothing. I mean I like them. I like

them.

>> Yeah. But I just if you get bored quick

when things get perfect and aren't

perfect and then you're thinking about a

red mid80s Alpha, I just think there's a

collision coming, man. A Mercedes wagon.

You thought the ZHP BMW was boring.

A diesel Mercedes wagon.

I

Jose, genuinely I'm wondering here if

you are one of those really gifted

people in detailing

>> because I'm thinking that this list

especially that Alpha and this Mercedes,

the the Saab 900, the first gen Audi TT.

What I'm seeing is a commonality of all

of those is I think you want to be close

to them and work on them and make them

look perfect. Like you and I almost feel

like if if you don't have a detail

business, seek out owners with those

cars and just detail those cars for

them. Have the experience of being close

to one of those cars and making it look

amazing, but not have to own it. The

you've already owned a Z3M. I don't

think you need to own another one.

You've owned Mini Cooper twice. I don't

think you need to own another one. The

Saab 900 I don't think you can own

because I think Daniel's bought them

all.

>> I think that might be scoping for what

the next one is.

>> Will it run well enough to keep you

interested? I I again I think that's a

car that you're fascinated by how it

looks and you want to be close to it,

but I don't know you want to own it. The

first gen Audi TT I have heard so few

things about the merging of the actually

running and then looking cool. Looking

cool. Yes. Running, not so much. That's

all I've ever heard about those, even

though they are cool. So, I'm going to

run into a couple others because I'm

trying to find you something that is a

unique driving experience that also when

I'm looking at your list here, I don't

see 60 70 grand available. I see 20 30

grand available is what I'm what I'm

guessing. I'm just guessing based on

what you've sent us. So, I'm trying to

think of something that you can get a

unique driving experience out of it. I

didn't say Lotus Elise, by the way, but

I did have four that I think are very

interesting that you should seriously

consider.

>> We're going to start right here with a

car that may never come again, and that

is the Honda S2000.

>> Oh, that's really good.

>> Get yourself a Honda S2000. You had a

Z3, you've had a Boxster. This is a very

different flavor in the same idea,

>> but because these are are older cars.

I'm showing a beautiful orange one right

now. They had a fantastic blue. They had

a good-look red. I feel like everyone I

see now is silver or that kind of

silvery blue. But these are spectacular

cars.

>> You can find one in that color. It's

gorgeous. Yeah.

>> Get yourself a Honda S2000. It's just

interesting. The they the the technology

that they had that was cutting edge at

the time is still interesting now.

>> Like the top works really well. They

have that stereo that gets hidden. They

have all the little controls right by

the wheel, which I love that. It's a

300ZX thing as well. True. It has It was

one of the first cars we all got excited

about a start button. Now it's like

everything has a start button. It had a

start button. Like oh cool. It's like

it's like a an airplane. What is this?

This is awesome. So Honda S2000's got to

be way up on the list. You were talking

about things that are enjoyable to drive

that you can really use all of. That was

another thing that came out of your list

and still kind of analog with modern

safety features. I did Miata too, but I

did a NC a third gen Miata.

>> Oo.

>> These are out there.

>> Those are the deal.

>> Whichever one you want. These are the

cars that they're they're bigger. You

could get a retractable hardtop if you

want it. They actually have decent

passenger space unlike the the ND3,

unfortunately. But the uh these third

gen Miatas are excellent and they're out

there with whatever budget you have. You

can do great things. There's also a lot

of aftermarket support on these. These

are on the rise in aftermarket support.

These were the unloved Miata and in the

last three or four years, the tide is

turning and there's stuff for these. So,

that's another one. And while I was at

that generation of of Mazda, I went,

"Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You want

something quirky?

What about an RX8?

>> You want somewhere to put your money?"

Well, but but Jose, here's what I'm

going to say to you about an RX8.

>> Yeah.

>> You are a guy that goes through cars

quickly.

>> This one can go through engines quickly.

>> It can. But but but the point I'm making

here is none of these are expensive.

>> That's true.

>> This and and I I'm overstating. I know.

But this is almost a disposable car.

It's almost buy it, when the engine

blows up, you go, "Eh." I mean, not

quite. I know money is a real thing. I'm

aware

>> box of cars. Pull this one, use it, the

next one pops up.

>> I just But but that's kind of how you've

used cars. And I think this is a very

unique experience to drive.

>> Yeah, it is.

>> Find yourself an RX8. Not the nicest one

ever. Find yourself a mid-grade RX8.

Make it look beautiful. Drive it

sometimes. And it's a drive sometimes

car anyway.

>> Sure.

>> This car is at its worst for reliability

when you use it to run errands. This is

the car you want to have as a third car

because you intended to go drive it.

You're going to warm up the engine,

you're going to wind it out, and you're

going to bring it home properly.

>> Could an RX7 uh FD RX7 fit here, too?

Because I I like those RX7.

>> It could, but I think he he's looking

for modern enough. And the problem with

the RX7 is I think they're above his

budget because the good ones are all

really expensive. These RX8s are just

out there for nothing.

>> Yeah, true.

>> So, I think it's it's modern enough.

It's the same generation as that uh

third gen Miata. I think you could have

a really incredible time in one of

these. So, that's one of my ideas. My

last idea for you because it's unlike

anything you've had and I want to get

you fun to drive, rear wheel drive, but

into something you haven't had. And that

is the C6 Z06 Corvette.

>> You talked about plasticky buttons in

the Alpha. This has got plasticky

buttons for you.

>> Boy, do we have a

>> But it's a modern car. It's a genuinely

modern car.

>> And that big old engine up there is

fantastic. Now, I I do admit this is a

wild card because you sold your 911 for

being too much car. This may be as well,

>> but it's totally different than anything

you've had.

>> Big front engine, muscle car feel, rear

wheel drive, very capable. C6 Z06 is on

a wild card for me, for you, Jose, but I

think that's a worthwhile one on the

list as well.

>> That's good. I like your choices. Do you

have the urge to do burnouts?

>> Yes.

>> Do you feel the urge to rock it through

rear tires? I mean, that's has all the

plasticky of the of the alpha, but it

also is going to be a lot more reliable

than the alpha. I mean, let's be honest.

>> Are those selling points? Second one's a

selling point.

>> All things considered,

>> more plastic than alphas.

>> Mhm.

>> That's you. You sold me.

>> No. As plastic.

>> As plasticky. He wants plasticky

buttons. C6 Corvette. It's got

plasticky. We got you solved. Problems

are solved.

>> Everyday drivergmail.com. Topic

Tuesdays. Car conclusions and car

debates. Moving on to Mark and Maryanne

R in Pittsburgh have written to us about

MercedesBenz suns setting the app on

their current car.

>> Mark Maryanne, thank you for writing to

us. They are in their early 70s but are

immature enough to have hope. There's

positive outcome to this issue. Their

previous cars include 60s Volvos, 70s

Mustang 2 Cobra. Oo, you had one of

those.

>> 80s Hondas, Mazdas and Suzukis, 2000s

Miatas or Mazdas.

>> Yep. He's not sure if this is a debate

or a topic Tuesday, but just before CO

made prices crazy, they bought a used

Mercedes-Benz 2018 GLA 250 Formatic with

17,000 mi.

>> Okay.

>> Jupiter red tan interior. They traded in

their 2012 Subaru Empreza with 100,000

mi that required a quart of oil every

600 miles.

>> Must have been fun. That was that was

their first non-standard transmission

car. They learned that CVT is short for

crap. You're being kind. But yes, that

is absolutely true. Yes,

>> the small GLA is much better built than

Impreza. He says, "Washing the GLA for

the first time. They were amazed." Oh,

with Grio's garage car care car.

>> Very cool. Glad

>> they were amazed. The hood didn't flex

like the Empreza.

>> I love it.

>> He says they like the handling, the

power, the amenities. No, it's not the

AMG, but from where they came from, it's

an improvement.

>> I totally get that. Those I mean,

they're cool little cars. They are for

sure. Yeah. They just got notice on

their Embrace app stating that Mercedes

is sunsetting the app. This means no

remote start, no remote lock and unlock

crash reporting will go away. And he's

included the official link to us. So

that's being put out and I looked on

various forums, Mark. And the word is

out. Yeah, they're they're definitely

sunsetting this uh this app. But Mark is

asking, "How does one protect oneself

from having features snatched away? M

Verizon supplied the bandwidth, but it

would be professional of Mercedes to an

offer an alternative. So, how does

somebody an owner replace those specific

features at a reasonable price? You saw

the price of 12 to $1,400 for a third

party install.

>> They've got 100,000 miles on their GLA

now. It's their only car and they plan

on keeping it and buying a newer

MercedesBenz vehicle next year. They

love the new Mercedes interiors and

features. They're used to the controls.

They're they're in the Mercedes

ecosystem

>> for sure. We've talked about before.

Yeah.

>> Mhm.

>> But they're rethinking about buying

another Mercedes if if this is going to

be the behavior they're exhibiting. They

don't want to be rash, but how does any

company think this behavior can possibly

help future sales when trust has been

broken?

Mark, I really do uh appreciate your

your concern. I am sorry this is

happening to you. So, pulling up uh an

image here of the Embrace app and this

is what it was advertised to be. Yeah.

all these different features.

>> I think we've gone through and are

continuing to go through a little bit of

a a period where car companies raced to

create their own interfaces and your car

is right in the sweet spot of that. And

it's

>> I guess it's not sweet, it's just the

spot. It's when

>> every car company was trying to figure

out,

>> all right, are we doing our own thing?

They're diving into coding and and

screens and offering features because,

you know, this was a selling point. This

was a selling feature. Another app on

your phone. In 2018, we all wanted to

add apps to our phone. It was the thing.

There's an app for that. Yes, let's add

another app.

>> And then we all started to realize that

is not the answer. And then car

companies realized this is not the

answer because

>> Android Auto, Apple CarPlay came along

and just destroyed everything. And and

smart car manufacturers are realizing. I

mean GM's not quite there yet, but

>> other software companies are doing it

better. Let's just embrace that and

focus on the goodness of building cars

and what they know cars and their their

past history. Let's we can build good

cars. Let's do that. So, where you're

at, you've got 100,000 miles on it, and

where you're at now is you're waiting a

year, but I think now's the time

>> because we also don't know what the

architecture that this particular

platform was built on. And it might not

be Mercedes. I want you to just detach

yourself for a moment and give you

permission to go buy another Mercedes if

you like it because it could be behind

the scenes. It could be Verizon

carrying. It could be built on third

generation architecture or fourth and

those particular features are maybe

forcing Mercedes to sunset the app. It

might not even be them. It could be

Verizon's making changes. There's tech

behind the scenes. Certain bandwidth is

going away and they're forced to do that

even though maybe Mercedes wanted to

keep doing this

>> and now they're forced to do that.

>> So there's so many car companies, well

practically everybody, they've embraced

a technology

your phone connects, you've pulled it

up, and this is going to be whatever it

is going forward. There is no guarantee

that any car company won't keep doing

this. But I feel like things have

settled out since the late as things are

settled out with here's where things are

going with the app. Maybe we don't need

to add these, you know, offer these

kinds of functions. But again, it could

have been the business arrangement. It

could have be it could be legal ease or

a contractual arrangement that expired

that forces this change. We we don't

know it. And you know the technology is

obviously still available or or I mean

possible but the contracts could have

run out. Something business-wise could

have been changed that forced this. And

so I think maybe it's a good thing for

you to be open-minded to go look at, you

know, go source a new Mercedes. Go look

at what that is. where we're at now, you

have less of a chance, prediction on my

part, have less of a chance to uh to run

into this sort of problem because things

have kind of settled through the

industry-ish

kind of.

>> I've sneaked a joke photo onto the

screen here of a MercedesBenz

with a CD changer go being displayed

prominently.

>> Yeah.

>> I I guys, I'm sorry to tell you, but

this never stops. It's only getting

worse. The problem you've encountered

suns setting of the app is only going to

accelerate. I actually went looking for

a CD changer photo to bring up this

point and just happened upon a Mercedes

one. I wasn't even looking for a

Mercedes one. It just happens to be a

Mercedes one showing the glove box with

the six CD changer. We all remember

these. They're not that long ago.

>> Yeah.

>> And now if you see a CD changer, you go,

"Oh my gosh, it's got a CD changer in

it." And the next thing you do, we all

do it. You go, "Is there ready to get

it?" Because you want to see what was

this person's musical taste. Exactly. I

didn't I I've we've literally known

people who have bought a car, found a CD

changer after they bought it, didn't

even know when they bought it, and like

look what I found. They're pulling CDs

out of like this is my weird mix,

whatever it is. So,

>> exactly.

>> The point I'm making here is car makers

try to jump onto latest technology to

differentiate themselves and then the

technology moves on. And as cars are

becoming more and more connected to the

internet so they can track you and give

you quote unquote features, this is only

going to continue. And so my the point

I'm making that is aligns with what

Paul's saying here is if you would like

to get another Mercedes product, get

another Mercedes product. Because what I

think is likely is you're going to buy

someone else's car and find that they

did it in their own little way.

>> That unfortunately it's all moving so

quickly

>> and everything's getting attached to an

app or a whatever. I and and and then

the other thing about it is like there's

the companies that are giving you an app

and only works for a year and now you

have to pay for it. There's that. And

you know BMW got flamed for we're going

to offer heated seats on a subscription.

>> This is not going away. I I hate that

it's not going away. But this is not

going away. And I want to I want to

challenge you on one other thing, guys.

And and I know I'm challenging you when

I say this, but you've listed the things

you're frustrated about losing.

Remote start and remote lock and unlock

the doors. Okay. If you like the car, if

you plan to keep it another year, how

often do you remote start it? Maybe it's

always, how often do you remote lock and

unlock the doors? Doesn't it have a key

fob?

>> Yeah. And some of those features are

already, you know, like remote start can

be just on the fob itself. It it depends

on the car. I I don't feel like you have

to have an app to get these features or

I don't feel like the features you're

bringing up are so paramount to

ownership. Maybe I'm not understanding

your usage that you have to have them

through this app. There's a whack-a-ole

game going on here. I know it sounds

crazy where if you're trying to buy a

car where the technology is not going to

become obsolete,

you're going to need to buy a car from

the 80s or 90s.

>> An Alpha GT V6.

>> Maybe. Maybe. There you go. they go back

to the the cars you had in the 80s

because that that tech is just it's

analog. There's not tech connected to it

and it's just fine. Even a early 2000s

BMW, you know, all the pixelated screens

are going bad, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So,

>> unfortunately, we're here and we're

getting more and more to a place where I

can't believe it that I can even say

this, where cars are becoming a

disposable item like phones and other

technology. They're becoming much more

disposable. I I will never forget this.

My in-laws up until a few years ago had

a refrigerator that my mother-in-law got

from her mom and they kept it in the

corner of their house and it was just a

drinks fridge

because that stuff was built because you

were the the the thinking at the time

like they used to.

>> Seriously, the thinking at the time was

you and your family bought your

refrigerator. There was no thinking

about, well, in 5 years it's going to

burn out or we'll put new. Why would

there be more tech? It's just a fridge.

It keeps drink cold. We're done. This

was the family refrigerator. And they

had it until people died off.

>> Oh my gosh. And and literally, we had a

conversation with my mother-in-law about

how it's cool. It's nice that it runs.

It's an interesting piece of of and but

you're moving. You're downsizing. The

fridge has got to go because you have

this whole other fridge here that's like

modern and does stuff. And but it

refused to die. It just it was the drink

fridge forever.

So this is not happening with cars at

all. You know that cars are cars are

designed to become obsolete at some

level. And even and I'll even say this,

it's not even as much as I do believe in

designed obsolescence. As much as I do

believe that happens with all the the

stuff we have in our life, the other

thing about it with cars is as we've

tied them to latest tech, the tech's

moving so quick, the car becomes

obsolete without even trying. I was

going to say I feel like that analogy is

great for cars because yeah 70s 60s7s

80s cars those will always be beloved

and auctioned

>> they're just frozen in time

>> driven and then as tech has worked its

way into cars which is why I feel like

modern EVs are so disposable even though

they're cool

>> I just I don't feel like it's a a

longlasting with longevity in mind like

this is it and that's tech not the car

manufacturer

>> we've talked about this before if you

take a 90s car and an early 2000s car.

'90s car. No nav screen, no digital

anything. '90s car. 300 ZX from from

Nissan. Early 2000s BMW with NAV.

>> Hop in both of those and tell me, even

if you know, tell me which one feels

older.

>> Interesting.

>> The BMW 10 years newer will probably

feel older because you're seeing all

this display of, oh gosh, we've moved on

from that. But the Nissan in the '9s,

and I'm not saying Nissan's only, but

Honda, pick your brand, just analog

gauges and the transmission is just a

lever. And I

>> Okay.

>> Okay. That doesn't feel nearly as old as

an early 2000s car with nav. That's

like,

>> yeah.

>> Anyway,

>> Mark Maryanne, the answer is to go buy

an old Suburban from 19 Just kidding.

>> Blazers for everyone. K series Blazers

for everyone. Great idea.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> No, you definitely have our permission

to go to get another Mercedes-Benz and

investigate something, but I feel like

we're we're past a time period. We're

still in it, but we're we're towards the

tail end where things are settling a bit

and you've got the freedom to just to

choose. I think Mercedes, it's tough.

>> Here's the key thing is it's everybody.

It's not just Mercedes.

>> Yeah, it's not just Mercedes. And so,

don't have a bad opinion of Mercedes

just because of that.

But get something newer. I would say get

something newer that you still like.

Maybe it's another GLA that is even

newer.

>> Maybe it's that

>> possibly

>> because you're not done with it yet.

>> We're going to not do car conclusions

again, which is a little bit too bad,

but we're just we're running and

gunning. We're going to do a little bit

more on another podcast, but we're going

to move on to I have to do a did you see

this? We're going to not do car

conclusions because I have to do a did

you see this?

>> Okay, good. Good.

>> This past week, you're watching this on

a Tuesday. You've probably seen the

reveal of this, but in the past week,

right before Halloween, everything I'm

aware of that what I'm about to talk to

you is not a joke. It's a real thing. It

exists. You can get it right now. Did

you see my friend Paul and all of you

watching and listening, the Neo Home

Robot? This is legitimately being sold

right now. It is a 5'6,

66B humanoid looking robot. It works for

roughly 4 hours and then you plug it in.

It has essentially a soft shell

clothing. It's got a clothing on it that

makes it look less like the mechanics

underneath. It has a bunch of

programming and it is designed. It has

little eyes for cameras. Okay, this is

not a joke. I'm actually I'm

legitimately not making a joke. This is

for sale right now. It can lift

theoretically about 100 150 lbs and

carry about 55 pounds. It's got mics to

hear you. It's got speakers to talk to

you. On one level, this is what we're

all talking about. This is what we all

imagine the world's going to work

toward. We're all going to have a robot

assistant in our home. Okay, that's been

dreamed about since the Jetsons. Okay,

this is going to be robot assistant in

our home. It's been around forever.

You can buy this right now. $20,000 to

buy one or five

>> grand. That's it.

>> Or $500 a month to essentially try it

out. But there's been a lot of flashy

articles about this. It was just

released in the past week. A lot of

newspapers have reported it. There's

been lots of videos. I watched the

launch video. That's where the did you

see this comes in. I watched the launch

video on YouTube for this Neo robot. Neo

home robot. Here's where it gets weird.

Okay, you would think what they've

launched is an autonomous home robot,

but if you watch the video, there are a

few things and it literally comes I mean

like the the movie AI, artificial

intelligence that C Spielberg made where

they rolled the box into the house and

unboxed a kid. It comes in a box like

that. It's like that how it's delivered.

It is like that. You can get it in

various shades of flesh. It comes in a

flesh color, a gray color, and a black

color. Okay. You get to pick its shoes.

Apparently, you can customize its shoes.

Great.

>> But it comes out of the box. I'm

literally saying that legitimately comes

out of the box able to like answer your

door

>> and uh put something away if you tell it

where to put it away. That kind of some

very basic stuff. You watch it move in

the video. It moves. Okay. It moves.

Okay. But as soon as you get past the

very limited fully autonomous features,

what's actually happening is you are

through companion mode or expert mode

depending upon what you talk about. You

are essentially having the robot dial

into the company

and there is now a person at the company

wearing VR headsets with the little hand

toggles that is looking through the eyes

of the robot.

>> Oh jeez.

>> And you teach the robot. In other words,

you're teaching or you're showing the

person who's driving the robot how to do

your specific laundry, load your

specific uh shelves, water your plants

where they are inside your house.

>> Yes.

>> You are having to let a third party

person in your house to walk around in

the robot to do the things. So now

imagine a world where you want this

thing to water all your plants all over

your property and you've got like plants

all over the place. You've left for

work. Now you have a robot in your home

that a person in a company is looking

through their eyes and walking around

your property with your permission

with none of your supervision.

Now you can look on the app to see what

Neo's looking at at any time. This is

such extreme beta testing. I can't even

stand it because this is think about it.

This is the way cars Tesla, Mercedes,

whoever have been trained to be better

autonomous drivers because they've done

thousands and thousands of hours of

observing proper driving. This is how

Tesla's code stack is so good. It

started off marginal, but because of all

the people were driving the car and the

car was learning eventually, now you get

into a Tesla product and you put it on

autopilot and you're like, "This is

pretty great. It drives like a human."

We've watched thousands of hours of

humans doing stuff. If this gets

embraced 10 years from now, these things

will be able to do a lot.

This this company has legitimately said

for those of you at the end of their

video, for those of you that want to go

on this journey with us, what's between

the lines here is,

>> oh, it's a journey.

>> Yes.

>> You are paying them money to beta test

and create a code stack for their

product.

So that in if this company even

survives, if this concept even survives,

in 10, 20 years, you can buy a robot,

pull out of the box, and say, "Go go

clean the dishes." And the and there's

been thousands of these robots in

thousands of houses driven by people,

and they understand how to navigate a

new house because there's a huge code

stack like a Tesla product.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> This is day one. They are launching

this. it is actually for sale to walk

around your house with permission and if

it doesn't know how to do a task to

phone home essentially to have a person

in glasses walk through the process.

That's why I'm doing it cuz I cannot

believe it exists and I hope all of you

seen it and I am both fascinated and

horrified that this exists.

>> Three things.

>> Okay, just three. Okay, good. Short

list.

>> Only three to start with.

>> Excellent.

>> Can it ride with me in the carpool lane?

That is coming. Yes.

>> And if it doesn't, can it drive me and

I'm riding shotgun in the carpool lane?

>> You want an autopilot, you bought a

deal.

>> I can be on the phone and it's driving,

but if it's driving,

no car company ever needs to investigate

and develop any autonomous system ever.

You can just build a normal car and hire

one of these and buy one of these to

plop into the driver's seat and it's

actually another person on the other

side of a planet driving around a city

and it's autonomous.

>> That's really funny.

>> And you're training them.

>> You could theoretically What's

>> the limit limit there? Because you

you're right. But theoretically,

>> my list is grown.

>> The theoretically, you're right. You

could put that robot. It's 5 foot six.

You could put it in a car.

>> Yeah.

>> And the person could remotely drive your

car using your robot. Somebody else is

driving you around from the other side

of the planet. It's like military

drones.

>> Terrifying.

>> You're driving a drone on the other side

of the planet.

>> That is so terrifying. If you watch this

thing, by the way, it's I'm terrified

because if you watch this thing move on

the video, you don't want something with

that reaction time driving a car. But

you're right. You could Google better

buy this company fast because this is

going to put Whimo out of business and

Uber and Lyft. Unless they buy a bunch

of these and just build normal cars that

don't have built-in electronic

automotive autonomous systems. It's just

>> here comes my Neo

>> one of these that drives your car.

>> It's like Turo plus Uber all combined.

They're driving your car to go pick

somebody else up. You're getting the

money. Is that called Uber?

>> What is it? What are we doing? Okay. I

just wanted you to see it because I

cannot believe it's there. It we are we

are the beta tester tester for this. The

fact that that you're going to think

about the stuff you're going to have to

sign that you probably haven't read that

is essentially you are allowing a person

in goggles to walk around your house and

for you to tell them stuff

>> and it's going to be person in goggles

on the other side of the planet for a

few years.

>> Yes. Exactly. True.

>> And it's recording everything.

>> Yep.

>> Oh, that's where you keep your

valuables. The sentence was, "If you

believe as deeply as we do,

>> join us."

>> You got to believe.

>> You got to believe. All right, moving on

to audience questions. I'm telling you,

there there's a whole podcast on this.

>> There really is.

>> Yes.

>> Can I love the irony of a bunch of these

in a mechanic shop rebuilding engines on

gas powered cars?

>> I like that.

>> Love the irony there.

>> Can we get Can we get an entire shop of

of Neobots to rebuild a a 60s Ferrari?

Maybe one of these can run one website

based on AI journalism and it's just one

of these running the whole thing. So

it's a robot running an AI powered

website. Hey

>> so nobody's actually doing anything.

>> Close the loop. Let's just close the

loop.

>> Go to the beach.

>> What's so funny about the video actually

is all of the relaxing that the people

of the video are doing.

>> They're doing that kind of relaxing we

don't really do anymore. Like I'm going

to sit here and cross my legs and read

the paper.

>> It's the kind of relaxing you do in a

Tesla driving itself. I'm not relaxed.

>> But here's the thing. A couple comes

home from a date in the middle of the

video. Of course, they're driving a

Porsche 91. They come home from a date

in their perfect 9/11 to find that Neo

has cleaned up the house. So, this this

is a couple that supposedly lives

together. Okay. This couple comes home

and he I'm not I'm not overstating. He

flops onto the couch. Doesn't sit. He

like walks to the corner of this

pristine living room cuz remember Neo

cleaned it and flops onto the couch and

his girlfriend walks over and she sits

beautifully beside him and he puts his

arm around her and he leans over and he

kisses her on the forehead. I've been

married a long time. Okay, I have a lot

of friends who are married, people in

long relationships. If you come home

from a date to a pristine house and you

have had the greatest date ever and

everybody is super happy, that is still

not the progress of what happens. I'm

not walking into anywhere just flopping

on the couch. my wife sits beside me and

I kiss her on the head. Nope. There's

still stuff to do or we we want to be

together if you know what I mean. I

mean, the reality is that is not the

progression of things. Okay. Go. I just

was watching this going, "This was done

by an ad agency

>> while the robots went

in the background." Neo robot. It's here

everybody.

>> Please tell me that's what it sounds

like. And it's like old analog gears.

And

>> it doesn't sound that way. They've done

a decent job of actually making it kind

of were instead of but it moves

>> like you imagine. And there's a whole

other thing. I'm actually going to stop

here, but there's a whole other thing

that this brings up, and that is,

>> do we need humanoid robots? Don't we

just need robots to do specific things

that could be whatever shape they need

to be to optimize that? Like your

dishwasher is a robot that sits in the

corner. It's a box and it cleans dishes.

>> It doesn't walk around because it

doesn't need to. It's just it cleans

dishes so much better than I ever could

because all it does is clean dishes. So,

you make it a box with a bunch of water

jets. Done. Why do we need a humanoid

robot?

>> Valet car parkers. This replaces an army

of these. Can valet park?

>> I'm just going to keep driving. Walk up.

It's an army of those. Like, I'm going

to keep going. Got another restaurant.

>> Old 60s Mustangs are autonomous cars now

cuz it just has one of these driving

around. It's actually a person with

goggles driving around.

>> Every car can be autonomous.

>> It's terrifying and amazing in equal

parts.

>> Shall we do some questions? Let's do

some questions quickly. Quickly secret

quad 4444 asks, "What are ways you've

dealt with sitting shotgun when the

person driving is distracted but won't

admit it?"

>> Honesty.

Uh driver, you're making me

uncomfortable. Just on a serious note,

you're making me uncomfortable. Could

you please stop doing whatever it is?

just please could you just straight up

>> cuz laughing and joking your way there.

They're not really ever going to get it

and they're making you uncomfortable.

And hey, you know what? Just on a just

being serious real quick,

>> can you change whatever you're doing cuz

you're making me uncomfortable. Could

you please do that for me?

>> That's the best way I know how to do it.

>> There there is no good way. I think

Paul's landed on the best possible way.

I do agree with that. Uh, Flurmit says,

"With car makers EV futures collapsing

and the development cycle for a car

being about 5 years, what cars do we

think manufacturers are scrambling to

make now that were released in the

coming years?" Flurament, you can

actually see it already. And that is

what's happening is that all of these

manufacturers that have got cars in

development are figuring out how to put

gasoline motors in them as well. The

same car, the cars, the car's on the

move. It's it's headed toward

development, going to be built. So now

it's just can we change the power plant?

I like the ID buzz. Taking a saw,

cut the back end out. Stuff of Porsche V

the Turbo S engine back there.

>> Can we put in the flat toaster, too,

just for fun?

>> Oh, it ejects toast out of the side

pipes. Anyway, I just I mean, too bad

paper delivery is not a thing anymore

because it could just Yeah, it' be

great. Well, you we've got that Chinese

company that's making the battery

ejection system. There's your new paper

boy. That'll be a lot safer than

ejecting the battery. I mean, the the

battery's on fire. I'll just eject it at

somebody else.

>> I love the idea of across eight lanes of

traffic. Just let's make something else

on fire. It's going to be great. That

should that's a weapon in a Fast and

Furious movie. Fast and Furious 11. It's

like injecting batteries on fire

batteries through traffic. Anyway, the

Sorry, back to your question. I I I

drifted quickly.

>> Battery wars. What I what I hope is

going to happen legitimately is that

automakers are going to make cars that

come in different power plants. Yeah.

And you can get the EEV one, you can get

the hybrid one, you can get the gasoline

one. I think that is what they're all

realizing. What happened is GM is the

best example. They all just jumped in

head first.

>> Built the Hummer.

>> If that's exactly Yes. If that's the new

regulation, we're coming right back

around to where we started.

>> Stack up a bunch of batteries. It weighs

13,000 lbs. We don't care.

>> But it's fine cuz it's electric. It'll

go it freedom, buddy. It's going to be

great. Uh, but the point is we just we

just we created a world where

manufacturers felt like because of

regulation, what the world was thinking,

we're going to jump in head first and

they realize the market isn't catching

that. So now they're having to make a

little bit of everything, which you and

I have said from the beginning. Let's

just have options. I love that options

are good. Last question for me from

Hassan 0M. Question related to design,

specifically wheel sizes. Saw the Lucid

Gravity has 23in wheels on the rear.

>> For a luxury SUV, isn't comfort and ride

top priority? Why would a company use

such a big wheel? And what should be the

maximum size in our opinion?

>> Styling. It looked really great in the

sketches and proportion of wheel to body

side to car. That is what designers are

going after. Of course, on those low

rolling resistance, what's possible? We

don't know what the tech is behind the

wheel, if the motor's larger, whatever

the assembly is that necessitates such a

large wheel, but that proportion looks

so good. I mean, 23 in is too big. I

mean, 20s are common place now.

>> Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely

right.

>> Those are plenty big. And on a track

car, you still want to back it off and

go to 18s. That's the sweet spot for

your track car. So, I think 20 22s on an

EV, I mean, that's the special edition,

but even 20s, I think, are still plenty

large. 18s on SUVs is still a big a big

wheel because you got big knobs or 35s

on there or something. 18 with good tire

meat on the side is the way to go on

most big SUVs. But you're right, the

ones that look cool are how big a wheel

can I make in the design. Last one I'm

going to try to go through quick. Kyle

Bliss says, "High mileage hero or zero

challenge. Imagine each of the following

vehicles with 150,000 miles on the

clock. It's in perfect working condition

except for what he's about to list. You

have to drive one of these five vehicles

for a full track day. Which one dies

first? And which one is the fastest

around a track? A WRX STI with the

original head gasket?

A Mark 6 Golf R with the original timing

chain tensioner.

An E46 M3 with the original rod

bearings.

>> An R53 Mini without ever having the

supercharger serviced. And last, the

Focus RX with the original wrong head

gasket.

>> Run away.

>> A full track day. Which one dies first

and which one does the fastest lap? I

think that the Focus RS has the

potential to do the fastest lap. I also

I it might be the first to die because

it's got the wrong head gasket on it.

The early ones had the full-on wrong

gasket.

>> It'll be fastest and first to die.

>> Possibly. Possibly. I think I think

that's a real possibility there. The I

think the Golf R would survive the day.

I think the STI's got a session in it.

and it's done. I think the E46 is going

to it's going to lull you to thinking

it's going to survive and in the last

session it's going to blow spectacularly

like pieces through the hood. It's going

to be great up until then and probably

pretty close to fastest.

>> The R53 Mini is a total dice roll. It's

either going to go session one or it's

going to leave perfectly fine. It It's

one of the two. I don't know. the it's

going to be like we blew it up on second

lap or I'm driving home in it.

>> It's real.

>> Anyway,

>> join us next time when there's a Neo

robot sitting there and a Neo robot

sitting here and

>> the last time you'll see us

>> discussing I don't know what

>> we're going to sit somewhere else and

just have the robots go. It's going to

be awesome.

>> Actually speaking through the robots and

everybody things from a remote location.

>> I'm going to put a wig on mine. It's

going to be great. It's going to be

fantastic. Yeah. So really appreciate

all your questions. Yeah. Join us next

time. Until then, cheers everyone.

[Music]

Honda That Honda

kW

Porsche Speedster

About this episode

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