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Welcome to Car Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works.
Well, folks, by now you know what that music means.
Welcome back to Car Stuff.
I am one of your hosts today, Ben Bullet.
And I'm Kurt Garen.
And Kurt, I've got to tell you,
you and I are both pretty fortunate when it comes to our commutes
in this our fair metropolis of Atlanta.
How far away would you say you are from the office?
Minute-wise or mile-wise?
Nah, I'm foreign to state you and I recognize a local when I hear one, man.
I would say four miles.
Okay. So that would be between 15 minutes and an hour.
Right, depending because as we know,
if you are like anyone else living in Atlanta,
from the wealthiest person to the poorest person,
the oldest and the youngest of drivers,
then you are in an eternal battle
with this city's sworn nemesis that is traffic.
You know, I'm not going to leave you hanging out there, man.
I will, I'll give you my side of the story too.
Right now, I live in the same neighborhood where our offices
and traffic is so bad in this neighborhood
that it is honestly faster for me to walk a lot of places
than it is to drive, especially during rush hour,
which is I think when you're four mile commute stretches to an hour, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
And before then, when our office many years ago was located
in a different neighborhood closer to downtown Atlanta,
I had a commute that could easily stretch
to an hour and 30 minutes.
And it was one of those things where it didn't matter
what side streets I took.
It didn't matter what kind of shortcuts I used.
Like, if I didn't leave by 4 p.m.,
I was just going to stay there till at least 6.30.
In previous episodes of car stuff,
we've covered different aspects of traffic,
the best worst cities for drivers,
world's largest traffic jams on and on and on.
But today, you and I are going to look at something just a bit different.
It's a question for many of our fellow listeners to ponder
while you are stuck in traffic.
Because I was thinking about this, man,
what do you think the odds are that someone listening
to today's episode is listening while they're in gridlock?
The odds are pretty high.
You think so? I think so.
Well, try not to let the road rage get you.
Today, we are tackling this question.
How much does traffic actually cost us here in the US,
both as individuals and as a country?
To answer that question,
we have to lay everybody knows what traffic is.
Kurt, if you and I were stuck in traffic
and someone was explaining to us what traffic is,
I might get a little irritated.
So let's cut past that and let's just go to traffic jams
and what's one of the biggest first questions we have about them?
Why are traffic jams so prevalent?
The simple answer would be there's a lot of cars on the road.
However, there are complexities to that.
And here in Atlanta, we have eight lanes of traffic
on either side of the interstates.
And traffic still somehow gets bottled next.
So the jam is going to be happening way ahead of you,
probably where two lanes maybe exit onto another interstate
and folks wait to the last minute to get over into those two lanes
and someone has to hit their brakes.
And basically there's this domino effect
that ripples back into traffic and causes a jam for miles and miles back.
I guess that's the easiest every day example.
Yeah, and then as people drive
and make these risky moves to get over to the exit,
an accident may happen.
So then you have compounded the issue, you have a bottleneck
and then you have an accident.
You can easily see how traffic can get out of hand
when there's a bunch of cars on the road.
So it's not just the amount of cars.
It's myriad other factors.
Yeah, yeah, I like that you're pointing out
the perfect word for this compounding
because just like compounding interests,
those little taps on the brake pedal add up.
There's an accretional, as you said, domino effect
that applies such that this little tap on the brakes,
maybe a short pause, call it two to three seconds, right?
The car in front of you stopped suddenly
so you have to tap your brakes just two to three seconds
and then you all start to roll along maybe 20 miles an hour.
You get up to that.
But everybody behind you is also tapping their brakes
and they have to tap them for a longer amount of time
until you could be as far as a mile back
and everybody has stopped.
This is a thing that we can't really blame on one person.
It's a group behavior
and things get more complicated
when we ask why there are so many cars
and why are the roads overloaded?
Despite the fact that we build so many extra lanes,
we're continually trying to make bigger and better roads
and trying to maintain them.
Our pal, Jonathan Strickland,
is a podcaster,
longtime colleague of ours,
friend of the show,
he's been on car stuff a number of times.
He hosts a show called Tech Stuff
and a couple of other podcasts here at iHeartRadio.
He also, before we even started podcasting,
he would write articles for our parent website,
How Stuff Works.
And he wrote an article called How Traffic Works,
which is a pretty good read.
Don't let him know that I said this,
Jonathan's a pretty sharp guy.
And the way that he breaks it down,
there are two broad concepts
to play when we talk about traffic jams.
The first is network overload.
The second is traffic disturbances.
Network overload,
it's the fancy phrase for the idea
that we already proposed.
And that is simply demand and supply, right?
Demand for room on the road, supply of room on the road.
There are these bottlenecks
where traffic just inevitably seems to exceed
the road's capability to handle cars.
That happens a lot here in Atlanta.
We've got a bunch of two to four lane surface streets
where a lot of people want to make left turns,
but there are no left hand turns signals.
And you probably in your own commute
have some bottlenecks that you've run into.
Oh, for sure.
The road that I take home is a four lane road.
There aren't left turn lanes,
so it's just divided, you know,
just like a little divided highway.
And it's a fairly major back road
into downtown Atlanta to and from.
And so as far as network overload goes,
if there's just a bunch of people
trying to get to the same place.
And like you said, problems will arise
with the whole left turn thing.
People need to get to their neighborhood
and they need to turn left to do it.
And there may or may not be a left turn arrow there.
So you have cars stacking up behind this person.
Turning left and then inevitably,
they're going to want to get over into the right lane
to ease around the person turning left.
Is that ripple effect that just goes back and back?
And then you put other stop lights into the equation.
It's a mess.
Yeah, and think about this hypothetical moment.
Let's put ourselves in this situation.
So you're trying to get around someone
who is making a left hand turn.
You see a space that opens up in the right lane
and you can accelerate and escape this congestion.
The person behind you can accelerate a few minutes later.
The person behind them can accelerate a few moments
after that, right?
These other people in the right lane
that you got in front of.
This doesn't mean the congestion immediately clears up,
although it feels like it does
because we're generally looking forward in our cars
behind us, this problem is just traveling
in the other direction, traveling behind us, this congestion.
And this is something called the traffic wave effect.
Imagine the domino effect on wheels,
but also the escalating agglomerative nature
of the snowball effect, where the problem worsens,
the further and further it goes.
So that's the first thing, network overload.
Second thing, traffic disturbances,
they're exactly what they sound like, right?
That is a broad term.
Immediately my mind goes to accidents,
fender benders, things of that nature,
sometimes caused by the network overload itself.
Yeah, that's the thing that I think most of us think of right now.
And going back to you listener, they're in traffic.
I'm sure that if you live in a city like ours,
in your commute, you will see at least one or two accidents,
hopefully everyone's okay, or breakdowns.
You know, a flat tire, overheated engine, something like that.
You'll also see road construction and repair.
That counts as a traffic disturbance.
And you'll see harsh weather conditions,
which, you know, our city gets a hard time for,
because it just takes a little bit of snow
and the city shuts down.
When was that 2014?
They called it the snow apocalypse.
Yeah, we can't, the thing about traffic disturbances
that differentiates them from network overload
is that we can, with enough study and analysis,
understand and predict network overload,
these inevitable bottlenecks,
but we cannot predict traffic disturbances.
Although we cannot predict traffic disturbances,
we can say that they always spell problems for commuters.
No one is ever driving down a six lane highway
to see two of the lanes in their direction closed off
and going, oh great, construction, awesome.
You know, I'm harping on Atlanta
because that's where we have our daily driving experience.
But no one in this city sees those famous metal plates
on the road and says, oh great, what a good job.
I'm starting to get the feeling that they're more
of a permanent fix than a temporary fix,
but it's just a giant metal plate,
this placed over a hole for an indefinite amount of time
that the county city DOT makes in the road.
And you don't really want to hit it going full speed,
so it's a slow down and thus the domino effect
behind you will take place,
but these appear all over the place and often unannounced.
I mean, you hit it one time and you know it's there,
but the first time to me is always a surprise.
There's actually one right at the entrance to my neighborhood,
so it's always one to kind of glide over that on my way home.
One other sidebar, don't mean to throw us too far off track,
but I finally saw this phenomenon a couple weekends ago.
And it was a rainy Sunday,
just driving down 285 Interstate 285
that goes around Atlanta.
And I'm driving and I see a pair of headlights coming
in my direction.
Yes, dude.
Yes.
So I finally saw the phenomenon of the car driving down
the wrong side of the interstate,
which happens more than you think.
On 285.
I don't even know how this car got it.
Holy smokes.
That's fast and furious level dangerous.
Yeah, yeah.
So the rest of the day I'm checking the news to see what happened
with this car going down the wrong side of 285.
They never heard anything of it again.
Were they in this slow?
I mean, what even is the slow lane
if you're going to the wrong direction?
But this, get this.
This person was in the left shoulder.
There's maybe a eight or nine foot retaining wall
concrete there, then between that and the left lane.
And they were going fairly quickly.
I guess they realized they were going the wrong way.
That's why they weren't on the road.
Yeah.
I don't even know how you get off of 285
from the left lane going the wrong way.
I just don't know how I don't know how you get on.
And then from there, I don't know how you would get off.
Yeah, because to get off, you have to cut across
the entirety of traffic in that direction,
which is eight, six lanes maybe.
This is right there in spaghetti junction area.
Oh, wow.
So that, first off, I'm glad you're OK.
Secondly, everybody listening, please, please, please,
pay attention to the wrong way signs.
I know traffic signs can seem overall kind of negative.
It's no turn here, no you turn, wrong way.
That kind of stuff.
Really, if you think about it,
the only positive traffic sign is the one that says,
keep going.
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Fascinating.
It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
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Hear that?
That's what it sounds like when you plant more trees
than you harvest.
Work done by thousands of working forest professionals
like Adam, a district forest manager
who works to protect our forests from fires.
Keeping the forest fire resistant, synonymous
with keeping the forest healthy.
And we do that through planning more than we harvest.
And mitigate those risks through active management.
It's a long-term commitment.
Visit workingforestsinitiative.com to learn more.
Just the steers back on course here.
So traffic signs, that's one thing that could
alleviate some of this network overload
that we were talking about.
DOT and work crews do their best to alert people
to oncoming construction.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know, two miles ahead.
Two left lanes closed.
All right, lanes closed.
Days ahead.
Yeah, days ahead, even.
Even with accidents, you had the signs, accident,
sinter lane, three miles before this exit.
Why the folks wait till the last minute to get over?
Now, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubting
to the driver and say they were focused so much
on what they were doing that they didn't see the sign.
And they're looking at the road.
Eyes forward, just paying attention.
Because there's a lot going on.
However, if you move over early, it releases some of this stop
and go tension that we feel that gets escalated
further back, you go down the road.
I completely agree with you with what you're saying.
But I think for some people, they feel
that if they get over to the right
because the left lane's closed or something two miles ahead,
they feel like they're getting in a longer line
and it's going to be slower.
And they should just push the issue.
Drive is close to the closure as possible.
Zip in at the last second.
It's also true, technically, traffic is better for everyone
if every driver practices the zipper merge.
But the zipper merge doesn't happen in Atlanta.
Atlanta's a very difficult city to drive in
because for some reason, people who drive here
and honestly, myself included,
I'm not going to throw stones in this glass house.
For some reason, all of us have this sort of mad max mentality
when it comes to the road.
And I know the road that you take home, dude.
I have been on that road.
I used to have that commute.
People are monsters on that one.
Strickies, windy.
And they're very close lanes.
They're not as wide as a lot of other streets here in Atlanta.
What does this all mean?
How does this work out?
We have a stat for you.
According to the 2007 Urban Mobility Report
from the Texas Transportation Institute traffic incidents
counted for between 52 and 58% of the delays
we all experience in traffic.
What that means is while there may be
these unavoidable bottlenecks, you know what I mean?
Like two interstate exits that are very close
to one another, exit and entrance ramps
and something where everybody has to try to go left
while everybody's trying to go right.
While those bottlenecks do exist
more than half of the reasons that we have traffic jams
are going to be those traffic incidents.
Road construction, accidents, breakdowns, things like that.
However, there's another factor at play here
and this comes to us from a private industry traffic
analyst called InRix, I-N-R-I-X.
This was referenced in another House of Works article
by our contributing writer Sherees Threewitt
who is a top notch expert on all things automotive.
So InRix has their own term for a network overload.
It's a traffic hotspot.
According to InRix, these traffic hotspots
are responsible for huge amounts of traffic congestion
and huge amounts of lost cash.
We know a little bit about how they started
to break down the concept of traffic
and how they ultimately arrived at a financial answer.
So we're going to walk through how they figured out
what a traffic hotspot was, how they analyzed it,
and then ultimately, how much it costs.
In 2017, InRix launched a US transportation study.
They called it the health of the road.
So they had to define what a hotspot was.
InRix used a cloud-based traffic analysis tool
called roadway analytics.
They analyzed the areas with frequent traffic jams
and they narrowed those down to spots
where the speeds were typically observed
to drop below 65% of normal of the non-congested speed
for at least two minutes.
If, for instance, they're looking at a road
where the speed limit is 55,
if it drops below 65% of that from more than two minutes,
it's a traffic hotspot, right?
Yeah, yeah.
In a hotspot, traffic will slow less than half its usual pace
and the study also looked at economic costs
in terms of wasted time, loss, fuel, and carbon emissions
over the next decade.
So that kind of describes what they consider to be cost,
I guess, because we have cost on our well-being
as well.
Sure, yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a umbrella term.
Well, here's where the rubber hits the road, folks,
and the nation's wallet.
If you live near a city and you also drive a car,
you can't do very much to avoid traffic.
It's just there with you.
It's gonna follow you like a shadow.
A 2007 study showed that in 28 urban areas across the U.S.,
drivers spend, get this,
an entire work week's worth of time
sitting in traffic each year.
So that means for almost 30 cities in the U.S.,
you're losing an entire week, five days,
nine to five of your life sitting in your car.
So, you know, make sure you have a comfortable one,
make sure you have a reliable one,
make sure you can listen to podcasts while you're driving.
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Not a little, to your life.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions
may apply.
And Doug, here we have the Lemo Emu.
In its natural habitat, helping people
customize their car insurance and save hundreds
with Liberty Mutual.
Fascinating.
It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
Lemo, is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
Cut the camera, they see us.
Only pay for what you need
at LibertyNutual.com.
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And Philly, it's exclusive to Massachusetts.
Hear that?
That's what it sounds like when you plant more trees
than you harvest.
Work done by thousands of working forest professionals,
like Adam, a district forest manager
who works to protect our forests from fires.
Keeping the forest fire resistant, synonymous
with keeping the forest healthy.
And we do that through planning more than we harvest.
We mitigate those risks through active management.
It's a long-term commitment.
Visit workingforestsinitiative.com to learn more.
The worst example we found was Los Angeles.
In Los Angeles, drivers lose almost two weeks a year,
two traffic.
And this does have serious consequences.
I'm glad you mentioned people's personal well-being
here, Kurt, which is tough to put a price on that.
But we can estimate the cost of traffic
through a couple of different lenses.
In 2005, the estimated cost of traffic to the nation
was more than $78 billion in fuel and wasted time alone.
So that's like we take the average income of someone
for a work week.
And then we say, well, this is the money
that could have been made if they weren't stuck
in their vehicle.
And then we also say, this is the amount of,
this is the price for gallon of fuel.
It's how many cars were delayed,
there's how much the fuel cost.
Add those numbers together and get $78 billion.
It's missing important things.
It doesn't factor in stuff like damage to the environment,
possibly still kind of hard to quantify.
And it doesn't factor in health cost,
whether that is your physical health or your mental health.
I mean, I'm sure there have been a couple of people
who went to a therapist or something
because of their road rage.
What about wear and tear on the roads?
Very good call, yeah.
So Americans bought 2.9 billion extra gallons of gas
because of traffic congestion than 2005.
And the average annual cost to an individual driver
was $710.
And that's just due to the extra time
that you spend on the road because of congestion.
Yeah, and let's go back to Enrex.
Let's look at, let's drill down into a specific example.
Enrex found that the single worst traffic hotspot
in the country, the single worst network overload instance
or bottleneck is near Fredericksburg, Virginia.
It's on Interstate 95 South at Exit 133A.
And technically, I don't know this true,
but technically that means that if you are stuck
in traffic right now and listening to this show,
you have a higher than average likelihood
of being gridlocked there at 95 South Exit 133A.
Anybody who's been through that, write to us.
I mean, write to us when you're not driving.
Let us know if this thing is as much of a bruiser
as it sounds because in Fredericksburg, Virginia,
at that one spot in the entire country,
drivers are losing an estimated $2.3 billion through 2026,
$2.3 billion, one stretch of Interstate 95 South Exit 133A.
$2.3 billion, that's crazy.
And the numbers get higher too, right?
In conclusion, the report said that across all 25 cities
that they studied, traffic hotspots will cost drivers $480 billion
during the next 10 years and lost time,
wasted fuel and carbon emitted.
When that is broaded out across the country
as a whole, the cost of these hotspots is expected to reach.
Oh, Kurt, Kurt, Kurt, can we get a drum roll real quick?
Yes.
Yes, so the cost of these hotspots
is expected to reach $2.2 trillion.
And that's trillion with a T, $2.2 trillion
through 2026.
Is that even real money at that point?
I can't, I mean, I can't.
Are there trillionaires?
Is there someone with a trillion dollars?
Not yet.
Not yet.
And that is a real number, $2.2 trillion.
That's the answer to today's episode.
If you look at the cost of lost time,
wasted fuel, carbon emitted from now to 2026,
it's going to hit $2.2 trillion in expenses.
And of course, that is an incomplete number.
We can't put a genuine hard number
on the quality of time lost to traffic, right?
Because we can say a work week,
we can say a person makes so-and-so per hour or per year
and do the math that way.
But we can't put a price on the time
that drivers could be spending with their family,
their friends, their loved ones.
We can't put a price on the cost of going to a psychiatrist
because of your traffic nightmares.
And of course, I don't know if we can,
but we have not yet put an annual cost
on the court cases for road rage, hopefully we're kidding.
But there's stuff we can't price out.
Right.
And the added risk of driving in congested areas is...
Yeah, we didn't even mention the cost of insurance,
which changes based on where you live.
And a lot of that is due to reports of crime or accidents, right?
So, there ends our story.
Hopefully, the congestion that you were in
while you were listening to today's show
has eased up a bit.
You're getting back up to speed.
You've made it through your local traffic hotspot
and you only paid a bit of that $2.2 trillion in lost time.
And this ends our episode, but not our show.
We want to know your traffic war stories.
What is the worst traffic jam you've ever been in?
Briefly, let's see, I think the worst one that I was ever in
probably was about...
Not too bad actually, it was about four hours.
I get stuck in traffic on an interstate where there was
a major accident and I was really irritated about it
until in the distance, like several miles ahead,
I saw a helicopter taking off and I realized
that whoever was in that accident,
it was getting a life flight to a hospital
and that put things in perspective.
That made me think, you know what?
Being four hours late or being held up like that
is still better than being in a terrible accident.
So everybody stays safe.
I don't know, Kurt, do you have any crazy traffic stories?
That's nothing on that one.
The longest I've ever spent in a traffic jam
and additional to the time that it would have taken to get
there was maybe a couple hours in the DC area.
Oh yeah, that's four hours is pretty intense.
You were driving in DC, man.
Oh, through DC, yeah.
Through DC.
In that I-95, the whole road is a disaster,
especially up through there.
Oh, that's the last thing.
Oh, I have to mention, okay.
I don't know if anybody else does this,
but when I'm driving, I am pretty,
I'll be pretty forgiving or judgmental based on
the county and the state of license plates in our city.
If I see someone making a foolish left hand turn
and their license plate tells me
that they're from out of town, I get it.
You may not know that that became a turn lane,
you may not know there wasn't a turn,
that kind of stuff, because you're unfamiliar.
But if I see somebody with city plates
and they are doing something shistly,
they're driving poorly, then-
They're doing it on purpose.
Very much, I'm back to Mad Max, yeah.
And they shall be judged.
I'm with you on that always, yeah.
So, yes, let us know your war stories
we want to hear from you.
You can find us on Facebook and Instagram
at carstuffhsw and the website is carstuffshow.com.
And check out our Facebook community especially,
because we've got some great long time listeners there.
We've got some expert gear heads,
and we have some fantastic cars amongst our listeners.
Do check it out.
Thanks, everyone, and we'll see you next time.
Carstuff is a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Trump beat everybody showing that school product.
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Yeah, it calls for an ice cold, Coca-Cola.
Crisp and refreshing.
That's a game changer right there.
Yeah, that tastes always hits the right note,
just like the band-a-half time.
And just like that, we're back at it.
Passionate fans, school colors everywhere,
and an ice cold, Coca-Cola.
That's a winning combo.
No matter the sport, no matter the art, everybody knows.
Fan word is thirsty word, so grab a Coca-Cola
and keep that HPC Uva going.
Running a business is hard enough.
Don't make it harder with a dozen apps
that don't talk to each other.
One for sales, another for inventory,
a separate one for accounting, that's software overload.
Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all.
CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR,
fully integrated, easy to use
and built to grow with your business.
Thousands have already made the switch.
Why not you?
Try Odoo for free at odo.com.
That's odoo.com.
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.
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