A major issue with the factory grid heater in 6.7 Cummins engines is causing catastrophic engine failures, prompting the introduction of a new intake horn and grid heater product by Fleece Performance. This episode dives into the design and testing process of the product, which aims to eliminate the failure point while maintaining cold start functionality. The hosts discuss the importance of reliability for truck owners who depend on their vehicles for work, and they share insights from their recent unveiling at PRI. Listeners will learn about the product's features, installation process, and pricing.
Today’s episode dives into a factory flaw a lot of Cummins owners don’t
know about - the grid heater bolt. Fleece Performance tells us why the
issue exists and a solution they have for both the bolt and maintaining
cold starts.
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"But we have been selling replacement intake plate for years for those people that want to get rid of, you know, the factory grid heater because it's such an issue."
The intake plate is a part of the engine that helps air get into the cylinders. It can have extra parts on it to keep the engine running smoothly.
The intake plate is a component of the engine’s air intake system that directs airflow into the combustion chambers. It often houses sensors or heating elements to improve performance and reliability.
"Number one was, to John's point, it was eliminating this factory grid heater that commonly has the bolt that falls off and gets sucked into the engine."
A factory grid heater is a small device that keeps the air entering the engine cooler, which helps it run better. Sometimes its parts can break off and cause problems.
A factory grid heater is an aftermarket or OEM component installed in the intake system to keep air temperatures low, improving combustion efficiency. It can sometimes fail if a bolt loosens and falls into the engine.
"That was number one, and all that John talked about some of the heating elements as we get into that."
Heating elements are small electric parts that warm the air going into the engine, helping it run smoother.
Heating elements are electrical components that warm the intake air to improve combustion and reduce engine knock. They can be integrated into grid heaters or separate units.
"Maybe I'd just like the R&D side of it or the engineering side, but can you talk me through maybe the process for finding where the sweet spot was?
Let's not say the cold weather kit, but just the standard where it's on the backside of the intake manifold."
Think of it as a pipe that sends the air (and sometimes fuel) to each part of the engine where it burns. It helps make sure every cylinder gets enough air.
The intake manifold is a component that distributes the air-fuel mixture from the throttle body to each cylinder in an engine. It is a key part of the intake system, ensuring balanced airflow.
"I had just gotten a 2019 3500 RAM and I driven it around for about six months."
A RAM 3500 is a big truck that can haul heavy loads. The 2019 model was the year it was made.
The 2019 RAM 3500 is a heavy‑duty pickup truck built by Ram Trucks, a division of Ford. It’s known for its large engine options and towing capability.
"We were able to float test this intake horn on our flow bench here. We also did some chassis down in work just to compare."
A flow bench is like a test machine that measures how much air can pass through parts of the car. It tells engineers if a part is good or needs improvement.
A flow bench is a laboratory setup used to measure the airflow through components like intake manifolds or horns. It helps engineers quantify how much air a part can move at different pressures.
"We were able to float test this intake horn on our flow bench here. We also did some chassis down in work just to compare."
The intake horn is a pipe that helps bring air into the engine. A better design can let more air in, which can make the car run faster.
An intake horn is a component that directs air from the throttle body or intake manifold into the engine’s cylinders. It can be tuned to improve airflow and boost performance.
"Your restrictor is the cylinder head. So our ability to flow air into the cylinder is directly related to the ability of the cylinder head to flow."
The cylinder head sits on top of the engine cylinders. It holds important parts like valves and spark plugs, and how well it works affects the car’s power.
The cylinder head is the top part of an engine that houses valves, spark plugs, and combustion chambers. Its design determines how efficiently air and fuel mix and combust.
"So if you're in the market, head on over to Kershaw.kaiusa.com."
Kershaw makes parts that can improve a car’s performance or appearance, like suspension upgrades or body kits. They’re popular among car enthusiasts who want to tweak their vehicles.
Kershaw is a manufacturer of aftermarket automotive parts, especially known for performance upgrades and accessories. Their products are often sold through specialty retailers and online stores.
"Patrick, there's this will also cover cabin chassis."
The cabin chassis is the part of a car that holds everything inside – seats, steering wheel, and dashboard. It helps keep the car strong and safe.
The cabin chassis refers to the structural frame that supports the vehicle’s interior, including seats, dashboard, and passenger area. It is a critical component for safety and rigidity.
"But yeah, so what you're going to get in the kit is obviously you're going to get your intake, you're going to get your intake plate, gasket, set that goes with this kit."
Gaskets are like rubber or metal seals that keep fluids from leaking where parts touch each other.
A gasket is a seal that prevents leaks between two surfaces, such as the intake plate and the engine block.
"We will have a map map sensor plug so that no matter which configuration your truck has, you can plug whichever hole you don't need to use."
It’s a plug that lets you add or take out a sensor that measures how much air is in the engine’s intake, useful for customizing performance.
A MAP sensor plug is an electrical connector that allows a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor to be added or removed, enabling flexibility in engine tuning.
"So, the only thing that would be separate if I wanted it would be the cold weather kit with the second heater, that's what I would, that's what I'd order separately if I if I needed it."
A cold weather kit is a bundle of parts that help a car stay warm and run better when it’s very cold outside, like extra heaters or better insulation.
A cold weather kit is a set of components added to a vehicle to improve performance and comfort in low temperatures, often including upgraded insulation, heated seats, or additional heating elements.
"So, the only thing that would be separate if I wanted it would be the cold weather kit with the second heater, that's what I would, that's what I'd order separately if I if I needed it."
A second heater is an extra device that keeps the car’s interior or engine warm when it’s very cold, so you don’t feel chilly inside.
The second heater refers to an additional heating unit installed in the vehicle, often used for cabin warmth or engine block heating during cold starts.
"I can't remember which diesel shop had posted a picture of one that there was truck in the shop and the nut had dropped into the intake, a plenum. And I don't remember exactly where it ended up..."
Think of the intake plenum as a big air box that splits the air coming into the engine so each cylinder gets enough air to burn fuel properly.
The intake plenum is a chamber in an engine’s air intake system that distributes the incoming air to each cylinder. It helps balance airflow and can affect engine performance and efficiency.
""if you've purchased a long block from police, you know, we have parts that will help...""
A long block is basically a big engine that’s already put together except for the top part. It makes it easier to replace or upgrade an engine because you don’t have to build it from scratch.
A long block is a pre-assembled engine that includes the crankshaft, pistons, and cylinder heads but not the head gasket or valve train. It’s sold as a ready-to-install unit for rebuilding or upgrading engines.
""We also have an intake system to put on that cylinder head to protect your investment.""
The intake system is the part that brings air into the engine. A better or cleaner intake can help the car run smoother and faster.
An intake system directs air (and sometimes fuel) into the engine’s combustion chambers. Upgrading or repairing it can improve airflow, boost power, and protect the engine.
"a lot of people would just remove that factory intake heater element and they would just be stuck with a rough cold start or, you know, it wasn't very refined."
It’s a little heater that warms the air going into the engine so it starts better when it’s cold.
An intake heater element is a small electric component that warms the air entering the engine, improving cold‑start performance and reducing emissions.
"I have to be removed. You're pulling the rail, you're pulling the existing grid heater out of there..."
A rail is a tube that carries fuel or air to the parts of the engine that need it. Think of it like a pipe that feeds the engine.
In automotive terms, a "rail" often refers to the fuel rail or vacuum rail that supplies fuel or air pressure to injectors or throttle bodies. It is a critical component in the engine’s fuel delivery system.
"So there's not a lot of extra cables and coils and bolts..."
Coils are parts that create the spark that lights the fuel in the engine, making it run.
Coils refer to ignition coils, which convert battery voltage into the high-voltage spark needed to ignite fuel in each cylinder of an internal combustion engine.
"So there's not a lot of extra cables and coils and bolts..."
Cables are the wires that connect different parts of a car so they can talk to each other and work together.
Cables in automotive contexts are wiring harnesses that carry electrical signals and power between components, such as sensors, actuators, and control modules.
"And go from a billet piece to a cast piece. Again, to kind of condense part numbers keep our kids uniform."
A billet piece is made from a solid chunk of metal that’s cut into the exact shape you need, making it very strong.
Billet refers to a solid block of metal that is machined into shape, resulting in a strong and precise component. Billet parts are often used for high-performance or custom applications.
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Jeff and John, welcome back to Diesel Podcasts. It's been just a couple of days since we chatted last at PRI. And you guys had a new partnership, product unveiling with Amsoil and oil, which we chatted about. But there were a lot of other products and new releases that you guys have. And today, it's for six, seven comments. So I'm welcoming you guys back to the podcast. Look forward to learning about this new product and the major issue that it solves with these trucks. So, look forward to chats today. Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks, Patrick. It is the day after PRI. Just finished. And we did unveil some new products, including announcing the partnership with Amsoil. The one that John and I wanted to talk a little bit about today, where it's our new intake horn and grid heater product for the six, seven comments. And we got a ton of questions on this.
We put out just a little bit of information, a couple teaser pictures, and then unveiled it at the show. And what we are hoping today to do was just give an amount of excitement that we had out of that at PRI. Help explain some of the ground up design, help explain some of the problem to your listeners. And give people a little bit more insight as to how this product was developed over the last couple of years here.
Let's start at the very beginning for somebody who maybe is either new to their six, seven or they're not familiar with the issue with the factory setup. What's the inherent problem with the factory intake manifold grid heater setup?
Yeah, just to speak, we grabbed a plate here just to show show everybody, but essentially this is what the factory intake plate with the grid heater looks like out of your truck.
You know, specifically speaking to the six, seven engine platform, so 07.5 to 2024 ram trucks are all equipped with this grid heater. And what this is designed to do is to heat the intake air, especially for cold starting applications.
So for anybody out there, especially when you remote start your truck, you'll see delays for a minute. Well, what's happening is that that grid is heating up heating up the intake air temp and helping the truck start once cold.
The problem with these over the years, and it's been interesting that Cummins is stuck with this design given the amount of failures.
And any, any busy service shop has certainly seen this problem, the circuit fails and will short melting this nut, which then falls apart and goes through your intake and eventually ends up in your cylinder causing engine failure.
And it's such a simple thing, but causes such a huge problem. We see it in the marketplace today. There's lots of different solutions that fix this problem from a lot of different manufacturers.
But we have been selling replacement intake plate for years for those people that want to get rid of, you know, the factory grid heater because it's such an issue.
So on the Patrick little more on this, we really wanted to take a ground up approach on the redesign of this product. There's a lot of options that were out in the market and have been out in the market for a period of time.
We wanted to take a lot of input from the listeners, from the consumers, understanding shop dealers. What do we need to do to make this a successful product in the marketplace?
Number one was, to John's point, it was eliminating this factory grid heater that commonly has the bolt that falls off and gets sucked into the engine.
That was number one, and all that John talked about some of the heating elements as we get into that.
Number two, from a reliability perspective, one of the things that I would say our consumers from a uses perspective, they utilize their trucks for their livelihood.
I would say a lot of our customers are hotchotters, they're contractors, they are the pipeline welders, people that depend on their rig for their own livelihood.
So uptime and reliability is a must for us in that design. And a key part of that was making sure that from a high pressure injection line perspective that our kit allowed for use of the number one injection line that's the factory line doesn't have a custom line associated with it.
Number three was installation. You got a couple of questions about that. We can hit on that too, but was the installation of the product making sure that that was easy to do.
You mentioned applicable trucks. So this kit is 07.5 to 24. We wanted to do it with one single partner that makes it easy for the customer to pick out the product.
I don't know how many different products are out there and ranges, but makes it easy if we've got one partner number that fits that whole range.
It makes it easy for our dealers to stock the product and for a wholesale channel to ensure good delivery and availability of parts makes it easier for the wholesale network to have one single part.
It's common with every kit we make. I mean, we want to make a complete solution and we always try to minimize part numbers.
We want a kit that when somebody buys it, all of the supporting component parts are in the kit.
Scope of this project, again, was to create a part that fit without needing to have specialized parts that you can't necessarily get easily, but also bring a kit that's economically priced and includes everything you need to install on your vehicle.
It's so scary about this issue is there's really nothing as a truck owner that you could do to avoid it, but the cost or the catastrophic damage that happens when this fails.
I think it's been such a huge issue for six seven owners and a lot of them may not be aware of it.
Maybe some of them just recently done some rating or some research and found it, but it's one of the things that's really jumped out to me for years is so scary with that setup is there's no way I can avoid it.
There's no maintenance to it. There's no, it was just kind of a focus of the podcast is how can I avoid issues and failures and truck running.
There's nothing you could do with the grid heater that just heats up and a nut falls off and gets sucked into the.
The only thing you can do is replace it.
But that also speaks to a little bit of a challenge because for a lot of consumers you're maybe in the south and you get rid of it, but if you just take that grid heater out of the system, the truck will set a check engine light.
And, you know, it's important to understand the customer when we're developing products that was and is something that we value in every product we develop, but especially this one, taking into account the guys that are in northern climates, right.
If I'm in Texas and I don't really see cold temperatures ever, I don't really need it. Sure, you can just get rid of it.
But what about the guy that's in Indiana this morning where it was five below, I need that to get my truck started to go to work, go to church, go wherever you need to go.
So we really took a lot of time and put a lot of attention in to trying to make the part fit for everybody, whether you're in the north or the south, whether you're in the US or Canada, and come up with a solution that fits the script.
How does it work with the fleece kit and still keeping the heater element or still being able to do those cold starts, like you just mentioned in colder climates.
This was, this was a fun product to develop. So we, we actually ended up renting a cold chamber with a third party lab and me, my team put
2024 ram into a cold chamber, the whole truck. And we did validation testing on not only the factory system, but a couple different iterations of our own prototypes to come up with something that would essentially start
in extreme cold climates. So we put the truck in the room at negative 35 degrees Celsius. And let me tell you what it was cold.
We actually did the testing in July because, you know, as it goes, you can't do cold start testing in the middle of the summer without having a facility that can, you know, put a truck in that type of condition.
And so it was, it was super fun to do that test work and to see how these vehicles perform in an extremely cold situation.
We learned a lot. One, the factory grid heater works phenomenal until it fails. And so then we kind of backed into our testing and we played around with heater placement, single heater versus two heaters
essentially came up with this design that we felt was going to work the best for the entire marketplace.
But there were a couple other key things in that testing, though, too, that that we learned that affect cold start ability.
Oh, not just not just the heater, right? The heaters are just one element of that system battery integrity is the number one factor in getting your truck to start when it's cold.
I mean, I know that sounds obvious, but I don't care what you have if the battery is going bad or is weak.
You know, you're going to have a tough time cranking that truck over to plug in your truck in the block heater had a drastic effect on cold start.
And I would say the third thing really was just working through the different temperature, you know, levels. It was really interesting to see bumping the room from negative 35 to negative 25.
How the truck responded to those, you know, the difference in temperature. So it was pretty cool. It's cool test.
What's the what's the layout that you guys went with for the heater?
So we ended up the way the product will be received by the customer will have a single heater on the backside the intake horn as you face the truck from the front.
So on the backside here, every kit will come with one heater and the way we're going to rate this part is, you know, basically zero degrees Fahrenheit and above one heater will call that a good kid.
So if you're somebody that, you know, might see a cold day here and there, but you're never really going to see Arctic type temperatures that single heater is going to be more than sufficient.
Putting that heater into the air stream was also important.
Having a heater in the intake is one thing, but having the right spot is a whole nother, a whole nother thing.
And like I said, through our testing, we played around with a couple different locations.
The second thing was then adding what we'll call our cold weather kit, which will be consistent of a secondary heater, where they're both basically 45 at a say about a 45 degree angle pointing into the intake with the jumper lines.
So this kit will be able to be purchased separately for anybody say, I'm in Michigan and, you know, it's, I know in the winter time I'm going to see some extreme cold, you can add that in.
Or Indianapolis today or Indianapolis this morning.
It was kind of fun. This truck right here is one of our test vehicles. Jeff Merriman, it's his daily driver.
It is equipped with this part. And this morning, the first thing I said was, please send me a cold start video, want to see how the truck fires up when it's cold.
And, you know, sitting in his driveway, not plugged in, he walks out, takes a quick video hits the button.
The heating circuit comes on heats up and the truck just one fires right out. So it's pretty cool.
I'm really really interested in the hate you just mentioned the location of where you put the heaters because I think.
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Maybe I'd just like the R&D side of it or the engineering side, but can you talk me through maybe the process for finding where the sweet spot was?
Let's not say the cold weather kit, but just the standard where it's on the backside of the intake manifold.
What kind of data or what kind of process did you guys go through to figure out where that sweet spot was?
Yeah, so the most obvious thing we're looking for was how it started with just the single heater and at what temperature?
Then we played around with moving that heater into different parts of the intake itself.
We had the intake instrumented with temp probe, so we could see how that actual unit heated up and where it was seeing the most heat.
Then obviously adding two, we tried stacking them in different locations and ultimately decided for an extreme cold start, we need to have as much air as close to the air intake on the cylinder head to allow for the most heat to just get sucked in right away, and that performed the best.
To reach on that a little bit more to like having some conversation with customers, we talked about air flow.
Those heaters are going to restrict air flow. How does that look?
Here's how it looks. I don't know if you can see what this factory part looks like, and I don't know if anyone's ever pulled their intake horn off a truck after a short amount of time.
This was a few years ago. I had just gotten a 2019 3500 RAM and I driven it around for about six months. Maybe it's a little bit longer than that.
The truck, if memory service had about 25 or 30,000 miles on it, and we had taken the intake horn off to do some other things and that part was completely choke shut.
Again, my experience is that that part works extremely well. However, it is a major catch-all for all that sudden carbon to build up, and I was shocked at how choked up that grid heater was just after a little bit of amount of time.
Now you think about a guy that owns a truck for say, I don't know, 100 or 150,000 miles that's never removed their intake horn. You could only imagine how clogged up that thing probably is.
So the nice thing about having the coil heaters is they are not as restrictive as that factory part.
And again, to go back to the scope of the project, what we value is a part that removes the failure, but adds the factory function and allows for that customer in a cold climate to be able to get a truck started as if he had the factory part.
There's two sides of it. One that I gravitate towards first is definitely that factory failure point and the very expensive repair bill that comes with it.
The second side is maybe a little bit more performance geared, and I think one time when I took the intake manifold off my truck, I don't remember what I was doing, but it was all caked and there were little chunks of black.
It's just all over all over it. And so I think if somebody who has maybe one of your cheetah turbos and they do an ad a turbo kit and they're doing these other upgrades.
And once you look and see how restrictive just that factory setup is, that would appeal towards the performance enthusiast in me is to be able to free up or help with that additional air that I'm pushing through the charge tube intercooler back into the intake manifold.
And to kind of speak on the, you know, the air flow side of this conversation, again, we had a lot of questions about that.
We were able to float test this intake horn on our flow bench here.
We also did some chassis down in work just to compare.
We wanted to compare our product against the factory intake horn and, you know, other options on the market to basically see,
what are we losing or gaining from a performance standpoint?
And this is a conversation that is quite interesting.
I don't care how much this intake actually flows.
Your restrictor is the cylinder head.
So our ability to flow air into the cylinder is directly related to the ability of the cylinder head to flow.
So in other words, if your cylinder head flows 200 CFM, that's what you're going to flow.
We also saw no performance loss.
In fact, just a slight performance gain, but not enough to say, hey, this thing is going to, you know, give you an extra 35 horsepower.
And it was very telling to see what that looks like, not only in the chassis, not only with the flow bench.
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I love how this kit is, it's one part number for 07.5 to 24.
It makes it so simple.
For me, if I was going to order one or for a diesel shop that is going to keep some on the shelf or a distributor and how the product is, is accessed.
What, what would I expect to get if I went on the site when the user released and I ordered one, what comes in the kit?
You know, one, one thing I forgot to mention though too, Patrick, there's this will also cover cabin chassis.
Was that, yeah, we didn't hit on that one up front.
I don't know that there's, I'm honest, I don't know if there may be kids out there that fit the cabin chassis.
Now, and we also have taken this through our mission testing process.
So we're working on pursuing the carburetor for this kit, which will have, you know, the coverage from 08 to 24.
But yeah, so what you're going to get in the kit is obviously you're going to get your intake, you're going to get your intake plate, gasket, set that goes with this kit.
You're going to have your cabling for the intake heater as well as an auxiliary ground strap.
And then all the hardware, so all the fasteners needed to mount the kit to the engine.
Essentially what you're going to get in the box is everything you need to do the job.
Our intention is always to make kits that are complete.
So, you know, you might have a 2012 truck and all your hardware is rusted and, you know, nasty.
Well, we're going to put new hardware in the box so that everybody's got nice new clean, clean mounting hardware.
We will have a map map sensor plug so that no matter which configuration your truck has, you can plug whichever hole you don't need to use.
And then there'll be intake air temp extension harness to again aid in every different configuration.
So, the only thing that would be separate if I wanted it would be the cold weather kit with the second heater, that's what I would, that's what I'd order separately if I if I needed it.
Correct.
And we will also, these are going to come raw as cast.
We got a few questions from customers are you going to offer different colors.
We will not offer any different colors, so like we'll lead that up to the consumer, how they want to powder coat or paint or if they want to.
But just for ease of purchase, we're going to send it out as you see it here in the video.
I thought it would be cool to spend a little bit of time on PR and questions or the reception that you guys got from the show it just videos that I saw on social media.
It looked packed.
There was one time about 10 years ago I was at that convention center.
It was one of the biggest ones I've ever been in and it was just packed with motor sports automotive diesel stuff.
So it looked really cool.
I wish I could have been out there.
But what were some questions you guys got at the booth from diesel shops, people stopping by in regards to this kit?
I'd say the number one question was how soon can I get it?
And how many can I buy?
How many can I buy?
How soon can I get it?
You know, questions on, really Patrick, a lot of the questions were the exact same questions that you have for us.
What's going to be in the kit?
What's the price point?
Can I get it in a different color?
And then again, how soon will be available?
So the most important questions at this point probably how soon will be available?
And it's something that we're working through with our supply chain.
Working with our foundry operations to get the castings in production here at this point.
So I don't know if it'll be March 1.
We want to throw a date out there yet.
We don't want to throw a date.
We don't erase that part.
The demand that we felt at the show will probably dictate release quickly, can move them through.
We want to make sure that we have enough of these kids available to supply everybody.
You know, I had one customer at the booth asked me said, you know, how do I, how would I sell this to a customer that walked in, you know?
And again, just talking through all the things that we just touched on, the price point, the, you know, the application range, ease of purchase, the quality of the kid, the quality of the parts in the kid.
You know, I think it all plays into a successful product.
I guess what questions, you know, Patrick, from your side, when you, when you heard about it first, what was your first thoughts around it or questions came to your mind?
I think the biggest thing was what, what an issue this has been.
I can't remember which diesel shop had posted a picture of one that there was truck in the shop and the nut had dropped into the intake, a plenum.
And I don't remember exactly where it ended up, but it was partially melted inside the engine.
And to me, that's the greatest selling point.
I don't want to, I always say like, I would love to have a built engine, but I want to do it on my terms, not because I have to do it because I got a feeling right.
So that would be the biggest sale to me.
But I think my biggest question was the install.
Like, I think a lot of people that see this, this is something in my mind, I could tackle it home, you know, on a weekend, you know, something like that.
How complete the kid is like with hardware, which John, you went through that because he's trucks gets mileage on him.
Or if they're in, you know, areas where salt put on the road and you just get, you know, corrosion on different metal part, like it, I would want new hardware, you know, for it to be able to
get a complete, a complete install, the biggest one to I think is the different temperatures, which
if it doesn't get that cold, I think I would just go with, you know, the single heating source, but, you know, if it's dropping below zero or extreme cold, you know, like in the north or, you know, in Canada, you guys have a provision for that.
So I think, you know, as far as a solution, I'm all about reliability maintenance. I think the market is as well.
We want to keep these trucks running as long as we can.
And the big glaring issue, I've just always in the back, my mind been with six, seven is what if I have a failure with that factory intake setup.
I'm going to be out thousands of dollars and it's not going to be fun.
And I think it speaks to you for us. I mean, we're always looking to put products out, obviously that solve problems.
But we're also looking at our customers saying, hey, if you've purchased a long block from police, you know, we have parts that will help, you know, your vehicle be successful beyond just a replacement engine or a cylinder head.
You know, those are good opportunities to take care of these like glaring issues that are common on these trucks.
And to have those solutions where we can say, you know, we have a cylinder head that's a better replacement item.
We also have an intake system to put on that cylinder head to protect your investment.
And we see that talking about the Amzoil on the last podcast. It's simply the same, the same type of concept for us where we're trying to give people a good solution to protect their investment.
That leads to another question just popped up is if I do, if I do get a long block, would this be an option where if I ordered one, this could come with it if I wanted it.
It would not come on the long block, but it certainly is a can be installed at the time.
If we package them, they're created up there in their coffins, so to speak, in a sealed container and sealed bag ready to ship.
So it wouldn't come that way on the long block, but absolutely if you are installing it or ideally wasn't installing it, that kid would be available for them to install into it for sure.
And I would definitely, that would be something I would add to, I think, if I need an engine, regardless of whether I had that failure or not with my factory factory engine, I would definitely want to go with this up.
I love how inclusive it is with the different heating options.
Because for the longest time when I think back to how we would address this, a lot of people would just remove that factory intake heater element and they would just be stuck with a rough cold start or, you know, it wasn't very refined.
You'd have to, you know, kind of try to figure out the hardware and all those sorts of things or, you know, will it work with the intake manifold that's on the truck or what might I have to do with different parts?
So I appreciate the refinement in the engineering that went into it as a complete solution.
Well, and one thing to touch on that again is we did our cold testing with a newer truck, a 2004 2500 ram.
And intentionally chose a vehicle with a push-button start where you can't control the key, you know, with an older truck and a key, you can get that truck to, you know, it might be hard starting, but you can hang on to the key cycle and kind of push it through to get it to.
Eventually fire up where with, you know, the newer, the newer trucks having a push-button start, you're relying on the truck to do its thing and cycle with its own logic.
And so it was interesting to see how that worked to because in the chamber, I'm like, gosh, if I could just hold the key down a little bit longer, I know this thing will pop.
So it, like I said, we tried to look at it from the most extreme environment and operating system.
What kind of install time would we be looking at? Let's say it's like an individual, not a professional shop, but just me and my garage on a weekend. How long do you think it would take?
What time are we talking on the weekend? Are we talking like Sunday at 5 p.m. Because that's usually when most people start.
Let's say like Saturday at like noon.
I don't know many people that start Saturday at noon. They all start Saturday at Sunday at 5 p.m.
I don't know where the install times were at.
But in terms of components, I have to be removed. You're pulling the rail, you're pulling the existing grid heater out of there, pulling the existing intake off.
But from an installation perspective, we did work to keep it to some of the comments you made as elegant as possible from an installation perspective.
So there's not a lot of extra cables and coils and bolts and everything else that needs to be installed.
And we've included the right pieces that need to be there to block off depending on which map sensor location you're using.
Yeah, generally speaking, we'll say an hour, one to three hours, you know, for the...
It depends on your level of your skill set.
Capability and, you know, you don't need a lot of tools in the toolbox to put this kid on. Definitely need a 10 mil socket.
I'm one of the guys who reads instructions before I jump into something.
Then you're rare.
You start on Saturday and you read the instructions.
Well, I've learned it the hard way when I don't read instructions. It's not one to three hours. It's like six to fourteen hours.
So I've learned to like, you know, just slow down a little bit. But like in regards to the instructions or the installation instructions that will come with this,
is that a key part of what you guys focus on? Maybe not just only with this product, but other products you guys have is that...
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The installation procedure, the things you guys want to see.
It is.
Yeah, it is.
And we have installation instructions or something that we have focused on for many years, trying to put as much information around the installation of any product that we make as much as possible.
I think at this point, we have close to 160 individual documents on the installation of our products, which is a big number.
A lot of information to maintain.
But a part of that is also taking really good feedback from our consumers and people that install our products and working that back in when somebody has a.
Has a question or concern or they encounter something on a vehicle that may be different than what we encountered over time.
But certainly for this product, it will come with a very complete installation instruction and this will be a perfect candidate for video installations, which I think all of us today.
You know, we utilize YouTube for a lot of, you know, a lot of activities.
Just looking up something our day for repairing my HVAC and I.
Looking up some videos for somebody who's done it sure enough somebody has and just walking through watching his video and the same thing here will make a nice video to walks people through the.
Through the installation process to make it easy for them.
It's, it's a great question to you because I always think about the engineering process, right.
And we prototype a part and we have a guy Jake Richards who runs our test garage.
He's a heck of a mechanic and, you know, he can do things quick and he knows all the little nuances.
I like to install all the kits myself once we have, you know, it almost there to kind of feel.
What does this feel like going into it as somebody like maybe not as as as as experienced as Jake.
And, you know, even when we author our instruction documents and we have a person who's charged with basically creating those documents, taking pictures, you know, stepping this through we review all that stuff with great detail.
But it's interesting the little nuances you find like, man, this was really tough for, you know, for me, I put this on and I really had a hard time maybe getting my hand here understanding the direction.
And I think we need to clarify that a little bit more or grab a different picture, you know, and that's such an important part and not only the engineering but the sale side of a product.
It's where the two disciplines inside of our business meet as we're taking that product and handing it off to sales.
I love that because I think of the process of getting a part.
And like with this, I would be excited to remove a failure point and something that would be expensive to fix.
I tackle this myself on a Saturday, you know, fleece performance is closed. I can't ask questions if I have it to be able to have a set of instructions or a video to be able to watch and reference.
Really completes that upgrade and that purchasing experience that is, I don't want to say it's rare, but it's kind of is when it comes to parts and upgrades.
The approach that you guys have taken, not just with this, but with a lot of different products that we've talked about on the podcast.
And I don't want to push you guys on the spot because I know the release date is fluid.
But where's the best place for people to see when this does launch when they can get it as a following fleece performance on Instagram, Facebook, you know, giving you guys a call check now on social media.
Yeah, that would be the best to be on social channels. I put out a post on Saturday just asking, hey, is everybody open for a pre-order? And I think the response was a resounding yes.
So once we once we've got a good plan and a date that we know we can beat for everybody that will be the plan is to put a pre-order option out there for people to get the orders in.
But we want to make sure we have a date available for folks that we can meet and or beat.
And once we know that, we'll put it out there.
And also go on fleeceperformance.com as well, because that's where it will be the first place that it will be landed.
I think six, seven coming, coming owners are definitely going to be excited.
They're going to think fleece performance for offering this product to address this issue.
And as I think with all your products, and I hear a lot of feedback from people that are out there that have purchased fleece products is how smooth they install and how the instructions are complete.
And you guys have thought of all the little details. So I'm excited.
I'm sure a lot of six seven owners are going to be excited. So I appreciate you guys chatting with me today explaining this new product going through the ways it addresses a common issue that these truck owners have faced for.
Many, many years now and it has been excited to.
I think for the reliability and for the durability. As you mentioned, Jeff lot of your customers run these trucks for business.
They depend on them and.
Nothing would be worse than a failure with the factory, good heater and it.
It's taken out an engine or doing a whole bunch of damage. So it's a very much needed product.
You want to talk about price.
Yeah, we didn't even hit on price, did we?
No, no.
The map price is going to be right about $600, so be $599 map with an MSRP of six, six 28, 95.
So it's lands and a good spot where we think it makes a lot of sense.
And it's an easier and easier price point for the consumer.
It's kind of that target range where we thought a product of this needed the land for a majority of the consumers that are out there.
And to make it an easy, an easy decision for them, kind of like some of the other products that we make.
We, we try and identify a pain point and then try and figure out, okay, you know, what's the, what's the price point for the consumer that will make the most sense for them.
And for us, that, that price point is kind of like the no brain or price point to be able to, to get in and do it to the truck.
And it's definitely much cheaper than an engine rebuild or something like that.
So you guys got me sold.
Yes.
Yes.
We're looking forward to this one. It's, it's going to be a big one.
So I'll be keeping my out for, for the release.
And I know people will be excited.
Any questions I get from listeners after this episode.
I'll make sure and send them your guys's way.
And what, what, what truck are you driving again?
I don't have the six seven anymore. I got a five nine.
I went back to the kind of old school little, little ways back to kind of keep it simple.
But I know you guys got a lot of five nine products out there.
And, uh, yeah, it's, it's relatively stock.
But, um, yeah, I had a six seven comments for a long time.
And that was one of the issues that just, it was always in the back of my mind was what, because I needed the grid heater for where I live.
And we thought, what happens if this, this note drops into the intake volume?
How much money am I going to be out?
Yeah, it's a big problem.
It's been interesting to you just the, uh, amount of, uh, I would say just awareness.
Just in the last couple of years to the issue.
I mean, it's been out. It's been a common problem for, you know, since, since it was released.
Yeah.
And I feel like in the last couple of years, it's really, really become more widely spread and, and more talked about.
It's interesting. We buy a lot of core engines for our core, or for our engine program on the common side.
And, um, we purchased close to a hundred cores here in the last couple of months.
And I think two or three of those engines that we torn down might have been more than that.
We had a, you know, had a grid heater.
Not go through it.
Yeah, so.
It really surprised me because when I first got that truck out of brand new in 2008.
I remember reading about this issue, you know, way back then, but there was.
There was really, like I said, no solution other than people would just remove the grid heater.
And you couldn't really do that if you were in a cold climate.
And it's just the marketplace didn't feel like an solid solution to me.
And so, I think through this conversation, understanding what went into it.
The different options that are there.
It's fantastic.
It's great time to have a six seven commons and be able to have a complete solution for it.
So it has me excited for those guys.
Yeah. The other thing that we didn't talk about to you just to touch on this quickly.
We currently sell a intake plate by itself right now.
And you're going to see that kit transition from two different part numbers to one.
And go from a billet piece to a cast piece.
Again, to kind of condense part numbers keep our kids uniform.
So that change will be, will be coming along with this kit.
And it'll be its own separate piece as it is today where you can buy just this if you so desire.
You might have a different intake corn that you want to use, but you want to use fleeces intake plate.
Very cool.
Awesome, guys. Well, I appreciate you walking me through the product and the different options.
I love this.
It's, like I said, it's something that addresses a major issue that's existed since day one.
And I think the price point is right where it needs to be.
I know that the product itself and the engineering that went into it will will be right there.
So I'll keep my out for it releasing and I'm sure a lot of listeners, people who've met with the PRI.
And followers that you guys have on social media will be looking forward to it as well.
Thanks for having us for sure. Thanks. Thanks Patrick. We appreciate it as always.
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Until next time, keep the shiny setup.
Thanks for watching.
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