The King of Staten Island: Real Strategies to Win Against Deceptive Pricing, Stairsteps & Amazon | Marcello Sciarrino, Co-Owner of Island Auto Group

You can do a search right now and go online and I'd say 90 plus percent of the dealers, and

they're all advertising with a trade-in, must have a $2,000 trade-in, must have $2,000 down,

or must buy a product, some sort of product to get that price.

That's not the way to treat new customers.

It's dishonest.

And why is it happening?

Because there's no enforcement.

I would say a dealer has to get dinged, the AG or some government regulation has

to go in and ding a dealer, and once they do, then they'll all stop it.

But the big third parties know what's happening and they do nothing about it.

Absolutely zero.

Hey, everybody.

I'm your host, Sam Darkin.

Today, I'm joined by Marcello Charino, co-owner of Island Auto Group.

In one of the most candid conversations we've had on this show, Marcello lays out exactly

how family-owned groups can survive consolidation by doubling down on transparency, service

retention and true community roots.

He gives an unfiltered take on brokers, deceptive pricing tactics in Amazon's

long game and automotive, and even the future of stair step programs.

If you want an honest look at the real pressures facing auto retail today and what's coming

next, this episode is a must listen.

A big thanks to our sponsors today for making this episode possible, Overfuel, CDK Global

and Nomad Content Studios.

And now let's get into the show.

So Marcello, before doing some prep for the show, I didn't

realize you basically own every dealership in Staten Island as part of the Island Auto

Group.

Tell us a little bit about your geography and how many stores you have as part of the

Island Auto Group.

We don't own all of them, but most.

So we own nine stores here on Staten Island.

Altogether, Island Auto Group owns 14 new car dealerships, and we own six standalone

used car stores, mostly concentrated in the metro area.

So yes, I would say that we own Staten Island.

I think that's a fair statement.

You know, as probably the undisputed king of Staten Island, what do most people not know

about having so many stores in one concentrated area and being so loyal and dedicated to that

particular piece of geography?

Yeah, I think for me, it's kind of like a Christmas list.

I live on Staten Island.

I moved out here about 20 years ago with my family.

So I'm pretty blessed that I get to work in my backyard and with my neighbors.

So I think what people don't know is that we're family owned and operated.

Myself, my partner, Josh, Josh Aronson and our partner, Ron Barron, and we really consider

ourselves a family owned business.

And we treat our customers like that here on Staten Island.

And people know me, I'm in the dealerships every single day.

You know, everyone says they know more shallow when they walk in.

So my sales manager will text me and say, Oh, you know, John's here.

He says he's a friend of yours.

So I've become like the guy that everybody knows here on Staten Island,

which is pretty cool.

And you know, that relationship that dealers can and do have so often with clients

and the community, that separates automotive from really any other industry.

What are your thoughts about that?

You know, we hear about Carvana and CarMax and some of these large

national chain players, you separate and differentiate yourself on that relationship piece.

Yeah, I mean, I've always said, you know, car dealers get a bad name.

We do a lot of good in the community.

You know, we employ a lot of people.

And, you know, Josh and I have this motto that, you know, you do good,

you get good. And it's always worked for us here.

You know, our employees are like family.

You know, we run our business, you know, we always say to an employee,

well, today's your daughter's birthday, you know, go be with your daughter.

Like that's kind of how we feel.

So I think car dealerships get a bad name when you look across,

especially the New York area, the amount of time and money and, you know,

just goodwill that we give back to customers.

I think people don't recognize it.

And I have no problems with the Carvanas of the world or the Penskees of the world.

But there is something to buy in your car from a family owned business

and know where it comes from.

Yeah, and especially a family owned business where the motto drives it,

where you do good first and then you get good.

I notice that that is that is pretty cool.

But Marcella, you haven't always been an auto dealer.

You always haven't been the king of Staten Island.

Take us back to where it began.

How did you get your start in automotive?

Well, you know, I grew up in a middle class family in Brooklyn.

You know, my parents were both awesome people.

My dad was an engineer.

My mom was, you know, stay at home mom.

And, you know, it wasn't like my kid, you know,

he had all these selections of colleges. Where am I going to go?

You know, my kids have 11 colleges.

You know, I kind of when I graduated from high school,

I went to community college for a year.

And during that time, I started working in a car dealership.

And I basically thought I was going to be like, you know,

just cleaning up, doing porter work or maintenance work

and a friend of mine's uncle owned a dealership.

And when I went there, he said, you know, you got the job.

And I said, well, it's exciting.

And he goes, come back tomorrow, but just dress a little bit nicer.

And I was like, that's a little odd.

Like, you know, I got to dress a little bit nicer to be a porter

or whatever it is. And I walked in and he goes, no, no,

you're going to sell cars.

Oh, and I was like, I don't know how to sell cars.

You know, back then it was kind of different.

There was no formal training program.

You know, he put me with an older gentleman who was a really nice guy.

And I guess for about six months, you know, I was his gopher.

I got his coffee. I helped him get his deliveries ready.

And then I started selling cars.

And you know, the rest, as they say, is history.

I was blessed that I always felt the car business was that one business.

It didn't matter where you came from, what your educational background was.

If you were willing to work hard and just work harder than the guy next to you,

you could succeed. So I was pretty blessed.

I worked in Brooklyn as a car salesman for, you know, several years.

Then I took a small break to help out with family business for maybe two years.

And then right back in the car business, and I guess where I got my big start

was Manhattan Jeep. I went there at that time of something called an internet

director, which was basically the guy who took the old leads that came from email.

And within a year there, I'd become the desk manager

and then eventually the general sales manager.

And, you know, and then I worked for some other big stores.

I worked for Plaza Automall, which was a really good group,

worked for a great guy, John Rosati, who really gave me my start.

And that was my real first general manager's job.

I took their Hyundai store from, you know, everyone has a story.

Mine's pretty cool, but very true.

I took that store from like 60 cars to 200 cars.

And it became the most profitable dealerships they had in the group.

And from there, you know, my career just kept growing.

And then I was very, very fortunate enough to meet up with Josh Aronson

about 14 years ago, and he had started our group.

They had two stores at the time, well, two stores and two family stores.

So four stores total.

And he said, hey, there's a Jeep store out in Lawrenceville, New Jersey

that I want to buy and I need a good operator.

You interested in?

And I said, yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, I did what every, you know, car salesman or manager would do.

I mortgaged my house and I wanted that as it's with Josh Aronson.

And, you know, it was a blessing.

We took that Jeep store, it was a sleepy store in a little small town.

And we kind of crushed it with that store.

And then from them, from there, we bought three or four other stores.

And then one day Josh and I was sitting in the office and he's like, you

know, we got to buy a big group.

And I was like, yeah.

And I said, well, why don't we try to buy, you know, Manfredi auto group.

And it was owned by a great family of good people.

Um, the owner actually had passed away during the transaction.

His name was Mr.

Manfredi, but they were just an old school group.

Didn't do things like maybe, you know, a little bit more modern.

So Josh and I were fortunate to buy that group.

Um, and from there the rest, you know, it's just history.

So now we're blessed that we have 14 new car stores.

We basically own every non luxury brand that you can think of.

Um, and we have six standalone independent stores that do anywhere

from 30 cars to 200 cars.

And how many employees across the road?

All together, you know, dependent on time of year, we're eight,

nine hundred employees, we've gotten to a thousand before COVID.

We were probably at about a thousand.

Yeah.

So really an American dream because you never intended to become an owner

in a large auto group as a kid.

Um, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Or I don't know.

I think a lawyer, my mother used to say, cause I was a good

arguer, my mother used to say, oh, you'll be a lawyer.

I don't think car dealer was on, you know, my line.

I joke with, you know, some of the guys when I go to these

dealer meetings that, you know, some people are generational.

I could have easily been cut and you meet a shop.

Right.

If I took a right instead of a left at the car dealership.

So, you know, just I'm blessed, very blessed.

And I, I, I kind of feel blessed and I kind of want to give

that back to our employees, which we, which, which is the

roots of do good, get good.

Right.

And it's, it's interesting when you talk to your employees, you're

a benefactor of an American dream you created.

Do you think that's still possible and automotive today?

I think it's gotten more difficult, you know, with the public

money that's come into the, you know, the space and the

carbonas of the world, but it's become difficult.

You know, you can't buy a dealership for a million or two million

dollars, which I know sounds insane.

Yeah.

You know, the numbers now are 10, 20, 30, 40 million dollars.

So I don't think anything's unobtainable, but I will say, I

think it's become more challenging at this time.

What's your message to employees that want that?

Cause I think you're right.

I felt that in my own beginnings in automotive, you

know, you kind of come to the understanding that there

is, the sky's no, there's no limit if you're willing to

work hard, you're willing to serve and give back to

customers and do things the right way.

This guy is the limit.

What's your message to employees about the possibility

and automotive and progression?

John Rosati had a saying, he used to say act as if, act

as if your name's on the door and maybe someday it will be.

And, you know, I tell that to my employees, act as if,

you know, if you see a piece of paper on the floor,

pick it up.

If you see there's a problem with a customer, it's not

your customer, help them out.

You know, act as if you are the owner.

So I still think it's possible.

I think it's a little bit more difficult now, but I definitely

think it's possible.

I mean, I think it was like Bruce Ratten, I had this saying

that life is 5% luck, 95% hard work.

The problem is everyone gets the 5% luck.

It's the 95% hard work.

That's the problem.

So you just got to outwork the guy next to you.

It used to really annoy me when I sold cars and I

wasn't number one.

It would make me infuriated.

But not to the point where I was mad at that guy.

I just wanted to be there.

I think that's the great thing about the car business.

I see some of these young kids come into business that

are just smart, you know, well-rounded young men.

And all of a sudden they're making a hundred grand.

Like it's, it's crazy.

Like what business can you walk into where your first

year you make more than the guy who studied for

medical school for eight years?

Yeah.

You know, it's, it's about hustle and determination.

So I think it's possible.

I just think it's a little more than it's.

And certain times like COVID have sent the wrong

message, but maybe you can do it without the

training, without the hard work.

How have you pivoted with your team post COVID in the,

in the area of kind of doubling down on process and training?

It's, it's been hard, honestly.

And any dealer who says it isn't, I think is fooling

himself, you know, I call them COVID babies.

So we had a lot of guys come in the car business and

thought that, you know, every customer will take a

red grand Cherokee and pay 500 a month.

And I'm like, well, you know, that's not reality.

You know, customers now have choice.

They have selection.

They can go to different dealerships.

There's more online presence than ever.

So I think it's, it's back to process.

That's what we're really focusing on is process and culture.

We believe in culture.

You've got to have people that want to win.

If they don't want to win, I don't care how much process

you have, you've got to have people that are all

rolling in the same direction.

So that's what we work on as our culture.

How do you select for that?

Because you can't necessarily teach the training to

win, or can you?

It's a great question.

I mean, for us, you know, if somebody's on the

team, you know, when you see that side chatter of

guys in a corner saying, you know, I'm not doing

this, I don't like the process, you got to have

guys that want to play together.

You know, I look at professional sports and I

talk to the guys about it all the time.

When you see a guy like, you know, paint man and

go out there and throw, you know, 50 passes

and complete 40.

Well, you don't know that he threw 700 during

the week to make sure that he can complete, you

know, 40.

It's, it's process.

It's training.

It's that mindset that, you know, you want to

win.

Um, and I think we know quickly.

I sometimes you hire and you don't realize

it, but I think people separate themselves

really quickly.

You know, the men and women that want to be on

your team and don't, um, I think in the first

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What are some of the standards you set to

help, uh, encourage that winning mentality

in the store?

There are processes, procedures or ways of

doing business that help you lean into

that culture of winning.

Yeah, listen, I believe in process.

I tell my guys, I'm a pretty boring guy.

You know, when I was a general manager, I

did the same things every single day.

You know, I sat down and did my morning

meeting.

I sat down and checked my website.

I sat down and went through my leads.

I sat down and checked my contracts in

transit, the same things over and over.

But that's one little part of the day.

The next part is, you know, the culture

you provide.

And when a process doesn't go right, do

you yell and scream, you know, we've all

worked for those yellows and the

screamers and those are just bad guys.

You know, I try to teach my guys that

when you tell someone to do a process

and they can't handle it, your job's

to figure out why not to tell them

they suck.

You know, I grew up in the car

business like that when, you know,

you came back to the desk and you

said, oh, they don't want to make a

deal on the sales manager said, oh, you

suck.

I'll get this guy who will go make a

deal with him.

Like that was the.

And I'm sure it was the norm back

then.

Yeah, you're smiling because you knew

it.

That was like, I knew it.

I saw it all.

We all grew up in it.

And for me, you know, people don't

young people don't care as much

about the money anymore.

They care about the atmosphere and

who they're working for and how do

they feel about it.

Um, and that's what we're trying

to create.

We're trying to create a better

culture and it's not easy.

Um, but we're really trying to

work on.

Yeah.

And in fact, talking about

culture, I think one of the things

that showed up in the notes when I

was reading was you're very

committed to family.

You're very committed to work life

balance in a business that is not

easy when it comes to that.

Tell us a little bit about how you

strike that work life balance.

I also think Sam, it's different

now, right?

When I was young, I worked six

days a week.

Yeah.

You know, I left my house at

seven a.m.

Got home at 11 a.m.

And my wife left me dinner on the

table like bell to bell.

Never complained to word about it.

You know, especially during

COVID, our stores were now, we

used to be open Sundays.

We closed Sunday during COVID.

We decided never to reopen

again on because our people got

used to it, you know, got used

to having that day off and

enjoying it, whether it's with

friends or watching football.

Um, we closed at seven o'clock

now.

We used to close at nine o'clock.

So those are big commitments

here to your customers and to

your employees to try to give

them a better work life,

balance, which is not easy.

So for me, I want them to

work hard, but I have a saying,

you know, just get the job done.

If that takes you 11 hours a day,

then it takes you 11.

If you can sell your two cars

in six hours and good for you.

But it is a balance.

But I think the younger people

today, they don't want to work

like they used to.

I just think that's a fact.

You know, you see it with

what we're coming out of the

remote time when people didn't

want to work in person.

So, you know, we try to be

flexible.

Our sales guys and our

managers work five days a week.

We don't require six days a week.

We don't require bell to bells.

But, you know, listen, I always

say to the guys, if it's the end

of the month and you need to be

here, then you need to be here.

So I think it's just changing

that culture. I don't think that

the younger people want it anymore.

That's just what we're saying.

So what would you say to a dealer

that says, look, you giving up

that one day being being

closed on Sunday, cost you X

number of car deals and X number

of profit? What would you do?

How would you respond to that?

Listen, years ago, I ran the

sales desk for Brad Benson,

Hyundai.

And one of the operators

there was Dave Canton.

I'm sure you've talked to Dave

in the past.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

We were closed on Sundays

and we sold 700 hundays a month

and the store across the river

from us was open on Sunday

and he sold 300 cars a month.

So to me, that's all nonsense.

You know, today with the online

presence, our BDCs are open on

Sunday. So if you call our

stores, you'll get a live agent

who will pick up the phone

and he'll he'll work with you.

And if you need a manager, he

can get them on the phone.

We make ourself available when

we're not here.

But to have my guys work, you

know, six, I used to work six

and seven, right? That was the

or five and six was the rotation.

Yeah. I think I think you're

burning your employees out and I

can't talk for everybody else.

But for me, I'd rather have a

fresh employee than a guy who's

just coming in because he's

required to come in on a Sunday.

So that's for us, I think it

works. But, you know, I can't

speak for everybody else.

How much of that commitment to

that balance has to do with how

you were early on, or is it

just a reality of current

conditions?

I think it's more the reality

of current conditions. I think,

you know, the marketplace has

changed.

Young people have changed,

whether you think that's good

or bad. I mean, time will tell.

They don't they don't want to

work the way they used to work.

You know, even, you know,

commission models like we still

work on a commission model, but

it's more weight now to CSI

and volume bonuses.

You know, you have to get

good employees without the

employees. You got nothing.

So, you know, you have to

get good employees and we're

trying to think of different

ways to recruit them and to

keep them.

What are your recruiting

methods for these new

employees that want to work a

little different than you and

I did early on in our careers?

Well, I think we try to let them

know that we do believe in a

work-life balance.

Like, you know, you don't have

to because you do go to a lot of

car dealerships and they still do

run it old school where, you

know, you got to work six days

a week and you got to do two

bells to bells, nine to

nines.

So we try to explain to them

that we think differently.

You know, we put family first.

That doesn't mean we don't

expect high standards because we

do. I mean, I work.

I'm here most days.

You'll see me.

But we try to get people that

want to work as a team, but

still respect the fact that they

have a family outside of here.

And, you know, it's a struggle

because there are dealerships that

still do have that mentality.

But we try to think differently.

So I wanted to ask about some

of the key growth milestones

in the evolution of your auto

group. And when we were on

in the green room, you mentioned,

you know, you've bought and

you've sold.

So as an example, you were in

Miami as an example.

You sold that store.

We did. What are some of the key

milestones in the group growth

of your auto group?

And what guides

or drives that decision to sell

a store? That's tough for a dealer

sometimes.

Yeah, you know, I think for us,

we expanded, keep in mind, we went

from two stores

to 12 stores

in like two and a half, three

years. And I think now that we

look back, maybe we didn't have a

good enough strategy.

And, you know, for us, it's all

about the operators.

You've got to have a good operator

in the store.

And I think like, you know, the

Miami store, which is now the

store is killing it. And I look

at it every day and question

myself, but we didn't have an

operator there. We weren't in

that market. The gentleman who

bought it was in that market

like we are in Staten Island.

He had an operator and they

turned the store around.

You know, we had an operator.

Unfortunately, it didn't work out

with that operator. And then we

just went through a series of

people. So I think at some

point, you have to recognize,

maybe I made a mistake.

You know, I think dealers are

very proud guys and myself

and my partners were proud.

But I think sometimes you have

to recognize, maybe focus on

your core and where you're

successful.

And we just haven't been able to

make that expanded model work

yet. I'm not saying it won't

happen again, but right now

we're trying to focus on our core

business.

That's our that's our plan right

now. We're in the midst of a

30 million dollar investment

in our dealerships.

You know, during COVID, a lot

of dealer groups expanded and

we think paid record prices

that a lot of them are kind of

scratching their heads now and

go, wow, I paid that much money

for this store.

Now business is normalized.

So we kind of took the wait and

see approach.

You know, we sat back, we

decided we were going to renovate

all of our current buildings,

try to increase our service

retention, which is huge.

Any dealer right now sleeping on

service retention, I think is a

fool because you are seeing a

dip in the SAR.

I mean, it came out yesterday.

Less cars may be sold over the

next two years, but cars always

break down.

So we've really invested we're

in the midst of a 12 month

renovation where we'll spend

30 million and about 70 service

bays to our Stan Allen location.

We're in the midst of building a

55,000 square foot new Toyota

facility to house Toyota.

Not to shout Toyota out, but if

I could own 100 Toyota stores,

that would be the stores that

we would own.

They just toy stores with

inventory because it's a

challenge to get enough

inventory really still.

I'm calling those guys.

I'm sorry, Toyota dealers, a

bunch of crybabies.

Don't cry from.

OK, we all get going.

You know, you have a decent

amount of discipline.

Yeah, discipline.

Listen, and I say this and I'm

not a paid endorser of Toyota.

They're smarter than everybody

else. They just are.

You know, me and Josh joke, we

went to a meeting a few years

back in Boston, I think it

was where they had this MIT

physicist come up and discuss

the whole EV thing.

And I maybe misquote in the

facts, but he said something

like if you really care about,

you know, reducing greenhouse

gases, you can make 14

hybrids for the amount of

batteries it takes to make

one EV.

And, you know, and basically

Toyota told the government at

that time, we're not doing it.

We're not building EVs.

We're going to build every car

hybrid.

And now all of a sudden they

look like geniuses because now,

you know, governments, you know,

politics change.

EVs are no longer in fashion

and, you know, hybrids are

the way to go.

They're just smarter and they

treat the idealists with

respect, with decency,

just an incredible manufacturer.

Somebody we're proud to be

a partner with.

Hence the reason you're

making the investment and

you're expanding and you're

going all in.

Yeah, we're doing a $15

million renovation just on

that one store because we

believe in the brand and they

have discipline.

You use the word before,

they're not going to over

produce.

You know, you're seeing a lot

of manufacturers and I'm sure

you talk to a lot of dealers.

We're turning down inventory

now.

It's happening on a regular

basis.

You find one Toyota dealer

that's turned down one

singular car and tell them

to call me and I'll take

them. They're on none.

Yeah.

Because they give you the

right amount of cars.

Would we like a little bit

more?

You know, you know, you have

too many cars again.

Yeah.

So you have multiple

franchises.

Toyota included.

Who else gets it right in the

OEM world?

Because I write, you know,

what I think about is in the

pit of COVID, everyone

promised we will exercise

discipline.

We will not overproduce.

And yet, truly, we have

gotten back.

Stairstep is an example of

that.

We can talk about that in a

moment.

But who are some of the

other?

Who are some of the other

brands that you're

talking about?

Who are some of the

brands that you're

talking about?

Who are some of the other

brands that you're talking

about?

Who are having a nice

conversation, Sam?

I know.

We were having such a nice

conversation.

Yeah.

Listen.

I mean, it's the obvious

ones, right?

Stalantis.

We own two Stalantis

stores.

We've always been a big

fan of Stalantis.

I love Jeep as a brand.

I grew up driving a Jeep.

I think they've lost their

way.

You know, they

overproduced.

They overpriced the cars

and none of what I'm

saying, you know, any

other deal would say.

You know, they took a

car to a $50,000 car.

And during COVID, you could do that.

And now all of a sudden, they're reducing all the prices

back again.

And stair step is, stair step's a problem.

Stair step creates unfair advantages.

In our market, we have something called Brokers,

which is a hard word because stair steps

create more broker business.

So it's a challenge.

I mean, Nissan, of course, is very challenging.

We have a Subaru store.

I think Subaru is really smart.

I think they've done a great job.

We have a Kia store.

Kia has done a great job.

And even GM, we're really happy with GM.

I think for the most part, they've

kept some discipline out of the American brands.

I'd say they probably kept the most, what we're seeing,

they kept the most discipline out of all of them.

But they're all good brands as long as you're making money.

You were on the Hyundai dealer council, I think.

I'm on the Hyundai Adboard, which

is on the vice president of that Adboard.

What's really good about the Hyundai Adboard

is they do what the dealer's asked.

They do take that advice and we're

allowed to put it into practice, which is really cool.

And I've been on that Adboard for now.

I think it's my sixth year.

And I enjoy it.

I think it's a good way to get some insight

and get feedback from the dealers.

And Hyundai will listen to it from the advertising side,

for sure.

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So you say stair step is a mistake.

What message would you make to those OEMs

that undertake stair step?

Hyundai does that as an example.

Why is it not needed and what message

would you put out there to those OEMs

about exercising more discipline, perhaps, like Toyota?

Well, the brand that's growing the most this year is Toyota.

They don't have a stair step.

So I think manufacturers lean on it as they...

It's kind of like a trigger, right?

Oh, our dealers will sell more cars.

But you don't need your dealers just to sell more cars.

You need your dealers to make money

because if they make money, they're reinvesting in the brand.

And I think what Toyota dealers, if you ask them,

stair steps wouldn't make us sell more cars.

So listen, I'm not a fan of stair steps.

I think they create way too much inventory.

I think they create a race to the bottom.

And in a metro market like us,

brokers are this gray area group of guys

who sell cars to customers

and they feed on stair step programs

and they go to dealers outside of the metros

who have very low cost factors

and they buy the cars for triple net.

And how does that help the dealer?

What is the dealer accomplishing by that?

Just some of these dealers are, I wanna be number one.

I don't care about being number one.

I wanna be respectable.

I wanna make sure that we sell as many cars as possible

but we're in the business of making money.

It's not a dirty word.

That's how we pay our employees.

It's interesting on our daily dealer live show,

we've talked a couple of times about brokers.

We had a broker on and had a whole debate about it.

What is it about your marketplace,

the New York marketplace

that is a breeding ground for brokers?

You don't really see it elsewhere in the country.

So I'm in the Midwest, we don't have brokers.

Where did they come from?

And I don't totally understand what feeds it

other than the need to push volume, I guess.

I mean, brokers started out really

when I was a kid in the Brooklyn area,

it was a secular thing.

It started with groups of religious people

who wanted to buy from the same type of people, right?

And it was a small thing,

it was a very small little niche market.

And then it was kind of like,

do you remember when you were maybe 15 years ago

they had cell phone stores all over the place?

Remember you could do it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, those guys been able to ton of money 20 years ago.

So what happened?

T-Mobile and Sprint said, it's not good for the brand.

Everyone's selling our phones for less money

and they fight and they stopped it.

It was kind of like mortgage brokers, right?

Years ago when I got my first mortgage,

I went to like a storefront.

And like there was a guy there, like in a bad suit

and like he negotiated the mortgage with me.

Like he started it, I don't know, 10% ended up at 8%.

I was like, this is a mortgage.

And the state ended up,

a lot of states, there's no more mortgage brokers.

Now you go directly to your bank.

Brokers find that little space in between.

So what they do is they negotiate with the dealer

and they usually negotiated a triple net number

and then they sell the car to the consumer

and the consumer's perception is I'm getting a better deal.

But the brokers making a profit from that net number

to what they're selling it.

The same thing you can get from a dealer.

So brokers have really done a good job.

And listen, I'm not mad at them.

They've done a good job.

They found a gray area.

There's no legislation.

They have some simple license they have to have.

You know, this morning we were supposed to do a podcast.

I had to stop because I had the DMV here.

You know, inspecting our stores,

which they should do, right?

Like you gotta make sure that we're doing the right thing.

The brokers have no,

you can open up a storefront,

spend 1,100 bucks a month, hire three guys

and you have a business.

And then when the car breaks down,

you know, the customers come to my service department

and we have something called the Island Family Plan

where if you buy the car from us kind of like Disney,

you skip the line, you go to the front of the line.

You know what I'm saying?

It's like a fast pass.

That's cool.

It's a fast pass.

That's basically what it is.

And we'll get some people that buy cars from brokers

and they're mad when I'm like,

well, your next appointment's 10 days.

Well, I gotta take care of the customer

who bought for me first, right?

I mean, you can't, you know, buy a Disney pass

and then go to, you know, a different theme park

and say, I want the same service.

So brokers kind of fit in that little middle area

and until the manufacturers kind of mandate it

and get involved and say, hey, listen,

you know, Toyota has this whole thing where,

or Mercedes, like, you can't buy a Mercedes

really outside of your PMA because you lose the allocation.

That doesn't-

Super similar.

Yeah.

It's really the luxuries do a good job of it,

like Porsche.

If I wanna go buy a Porsche

and I wanna buy it in West Palm Beach

and I live in New York,

they're probably not gonna sell it to me

because then they don't get the replacement for it.

You know, dealers of pumping cars in our market

that are not, you know, from our market.

So, I mean, brokers have this gray area

and something's gotta be done about it.

It's a problem and with all the compliance

that we have to go through,

a car dealer is probably the most over-regulated business

I've ever heard of.

You know, we have seven different agencies

that we answered two years ago

with that whole law they made.

Now we're looked at a bank.

We spent 40,000 a month on internet security

at our dealerships.

You're going to a broker

handing someone your driver's license

that has no security that's putting it on a desk.

It's going in a drawer.

It's problematic.

But they've done a great job convincing the consumer

that you'll get a better deal.

So, that's what's going on.

So what is the solution to the broker situation?

Guys, on our show on Daily Dealer Live,

we've, again, we talked about it a couple of times.

There were a couple of dealers

that initially were like,

hey, I'll talk about this.

And then they pulled back

because the OEM found out they were gonna have a conversation.

It almost seems like it's almost,

you remember the old movie Casablanca at the very end

where they could please come in and shut down the gambling

and the bookie pays the owner of the gambling joint first

before they shut it down.

It's almost like they know what's going on

and they allow it

although they won't admit it publicly, right?

Oh, listen, I'm not afraid to say

that they do know brokerage going on this.

You know, we've had talks with the OEMs about it.

You know, we're investing right now, $30 million.

How can I invest that money if I don't sell in my PMA?

And you drive up and down Highland Boulevard,

which is where our main dealerships are,

which is kind of like a mean thoroughfare

through Staten Island.

You know, there's 10 dealerships on this Boulevard

and probably 25 brokers on the same Boulevard.

You know, it's, the manufacturer knows it's happening,

but listen, dealers, we're our own worst enemy.

You know, the dealers are selling them the cars.

So, you know, and they have to stop,

but these dealers aren't gonna stop

and there's some big dealers doing it.

We just don't-

So the solution would be through the OEMs?

Yeah, if the OEM, yeah, well, state law,

we went through the state, a group of dealers

and we got a state law finally passed,

but it's like a warded down bill that really has no teeth.

And the biggest problem is it has no enforcement.

Like I said, I mean, you can come to our dealerships

any given day, you'll find the consumer affairs, OSHA,

New York DMV, the attorney general,

all these people checking on us.

And I think they should.

I'm a dealer that says we should be checked on.

We have to make sure we're doing the right thing.

You need checks and balances,

but you can't have a business next door

that has no, you know, no governing body

and then expect for them to, you know,

play by the same rules.

Yeah, interesting.

So you've been very public

about embracing modern business strategies,

but you're also old school.

Give some examples of some modern strategies

you've embraced and then their counter in old world.

And I would say connection to community obviously

is one of those, right?

Yeah, I mean, we're on an island, we're on Staten Island,

which is out of borough of New York City.

There's about 500,000 people here.

And we have the highest concentration

of city workers and healthcare workers in New York City,

which is kind of crazy.

And those people are generally very given back people.

You know, they're community people.

So we've embraced that.

Like, you know, we partner with the police department,

the fire department, the local schools.

We just finished a,

we used to do a food drive for many, many years,

but we found like we couldn't be effective

just collecting food because where do you get it to?

How do the people get it?

So years ago, we started something

where we collected money from our employees

and we hooked up with a local chapter

called the Staten Island Given Circle,

which is a group of women volunteers

that basically take care of homeless vets

and vets in need.

That's one of their big things.

Very cool.

Last three years, we've donated $20,000 every year to them.

And 10,000 of that is from our employees.

From our actual employees given $5, $10.

It's getting them to feel like they're part of something.

So I think that's certainly modern,

but we also use a lot of technology here.

You know, we're big on, you know,

pictures and videos for service.

Like, you know, I've watched some of the podcasts

and the guys are like, oh, we're doing pictures

and videos.

I'm like, we've been doing pictures and videos for years.

Like that's a must.

It's something you must,

because it justifies what the customer needs in a car.

So we're very big on electronic MPI

and electronic pictures and videos.

We have no cashiers in any of our stores.

If you go to our stores and you wanna pay a bill,

you pay that bill either on your phone

or with your service advisor.

Cause I knew you grew up in car dealerships

or you'd have the customer at the window

and then going, hey, Joan, what's this bill for?

He doesn't understand it.

You know, we stopped that.

All of our service advisors are in like a lane.

We don't have offices.

We believe in like that bank model.

It should be out and open.

There's nothing we have to hide to talk to you about your car.

So I think we've taken a modern approach to service

and that's why we're about to invest $30 million.

A lot of it has to do with service

and trying to make sure customers have a better experience

because listen, we know we're more expensive

than the independence.

There's no lying about that.

But we gotta give the customers a better experience

and that's what we're kinda focusing on.

Do you think experience can outpunt cost?

I don't think it outpunts cost completely

but I do think if you can show a customer value,

you know, I always say to you,

go to a bad steak restaurant because it's cheap.

Like, am I gonna call you and say,

Sam, you wanna go to dinner?

There's a terrible steak.

It's $29 on seven snow.

Go for $40 for a good steak.

You're gonna be like, why would I eat a terrible steak?

So I think for us, and it's confidence.

You know, when you come to a dealership,

what customers don't realize is

you get an OEM trained technician

and people think like, that's just a thing.

Like, our technicians go through hours of training.

We do an electronic MPI where you can see

what your car needs.

There's no gray area to it anymore.

My wife would call me up and say,

oh, I need brakes.

I'd be like, oh, you don't need brakes, don't do it.

If my wife sends me a video of the brakes being bad

and I'm thinking about my kid in the car,

I'm gonna do the brakes.

So I think we've tried to really get modern with service.

We don't have, our salespeople don't have computers

on their desk anymore.

We're all tablet-based.

They almost don't even have desks.

We have kind of a thing where you sit

where you can sit with a customer.

But we still believe in process.

I think our process is important

because you can't have anything without process.

I know we've talked about it, it's process.

How do you treat your customers?

How do you make sure your customers

see value in doing business with you?

And that's our whole island family plan.

So when you buy a car from us,

we give you free state inspections.

That's a value proposition.

We should have to pay for your inspection.

If you buy your next car from us

and you happen to lease your first car from us,

we give you a $1,000 certificate back

when you come to buy your next car.

That's not like a discount.

It's like you buy a car, you negotiate your best deal

and then you get a thousand bucks in the mail.

On every single new and used car that we retail,

we give a lifetime warranty on the engine.

Every single car.

Wait, really?

How do you do that?

We do it because we believe in the products that we sell.

Yeah, and we're very confident

that when we sell you a used car,

it should last you a lifetime.

And we guarantee the engine if you,

all you have to do is prove that you service the car

and we'll take care of the engine if it should fail.

Actually, that's a pretty spot.

When we talk about retention and the importance of it,

what a great way to get people loyal

to you and your organization,

then stand behind what you sell.

So is that a reinsured product?

Do you pay for it, include it, you reinsure it?

It's put on every single car.

It's reinsured.

I welcome you to go look at our website for used cars.

In the Metro, a lot of dealers

are playing games with used car pricing.

I don't know if you've heard about that,

but a lot of it has to do, we advertise this price,

but you got to put 2000 down.

You have to have on a yellow shirt.

You got to finance with us.

On our website, it's really simple.

The price you see is the price you pay.

There are no fees, zero, nothing.

The only thing you pay is New York State Dock fee,

which is 175 bucks.

You pay inspection and title.

That's the only fees when you buy a car from us.

And in New York, you have a lot of dealers in New Jersey

trying to be at the lowest price.

So they advertise what money down

or you must buy a warranty

or you have to have a low jack in your car.

I own auto group, we don't do it.

There's no fees ever, period end of story.

And it's been tough

because we're playing in an unfair field,

but we believe in it.

Well, talk about that for us a little bit.

New York is one of the most heavily regulated states,

right?

It's not that you don't have regulation.

Do you think it's a problem that dealers

can advertise that way?

Digital lead providers lean into it

and kind of make the problem worse

because they're distributing that.

Google recently came out with some measures,

but I'm not sure we've seen an impact to those measures yet.

What's your take on that?

Well, listen, the big names, and I won't mention them,

the places where we all advertise our cars,

they can stop it.

They can say, if you advertise your car

and you charge any fees,

we're not gonna let you advertise with us.

But they don't.

They don't.

So when you see a price online, consumers,

if I let you listen to our phone calls, Sam,

it's like this, hey, my name is Mark.

I'm looking at this 2014 Grand Cherokee you have.

What's the out-the-door price?

My rep's like, well, it's that plus sales tax.

No, no, what else are you charging me?

It's like every call has the same thing

because you can do a search right now and go online.

I'd say 90 plus percent of the dealers

and they're all advertising with a trade-in,

must have a $2,000 trade-in,

must have $2,000 down,

or must buy a product, some sort of product

to get that price.

That's not the way to treat your customers.

It's dishonest.

And why is it happening?

Because there's no enforcement.

I would say a dealer has to get dinged.

The AG or some government regulation has to go in

and ding a dealer.

And once they do, then they'll all stop it.

But the big third parties know what's happening

and they do nothing about it, absolutely zero.

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Do you think that environment will change?

Is there an appetite to,

for the regulatory agencies to come in

and put a stop to that?

Or do you see it continuing for a time?

And do you win?

And like, how are you able to message,

actually the first question first

and then I'd love, how you message that as a team

so you show your difference?

Cause some dealers would say in that environment,

you have to participate in that in order to be successful.

I don't agree with that,

but you probably do lose some customers.

So Sam, if the guy next to you

smacks someone in the face, do you smack them too?

I mean, that to me is for dealers

and I'll probably get some hate mail after this.

That's ignorant.

We don't have to lie, cheaters steal.

Carvana wins.

Carvana's pricing is more than everyone else's,

just so the dealers know.

I don't know if they've actually checked it,

but they've won on this transparency model.

It's easy.

You go online, you wanna sell them their car,

they don't come to the house like most dealers do

and then say, oh, there's a ding, there's a scratch,

you only have two keys and you're negotiating

on the sidewalk with them.

Dealers have to change.

We have to become more transparent

and we feel like we sleep good every night.

I'm not worried about it,

but to the dealers that are doing this price,

it's price fixing.

How can you advertise a car with $3,000 down?

They have purchase price by four.

So when the customer sees it, what does the customer think?

That's what they're paying for the car.

And it's even illegal to put all the descriptions,

but they do it anyway.

So I'm not embarrassed to say,

the dealers that are listening to this, check yourself.

We should all be on the same playing field.

If you can sell the cars for less than me, good for you.

If you can out-service the cars better than I can, good for you.

But don't win by deceiving the customers

and that's what's happening in the used car market.

It's terrible and it's happening in a lot of markets.

And I think the good dealers are sick of it.

I know they're sick of it.

We're sick of it.

And how do we get it across to the customer?

It's not easy because most customers search by price.

It's just the way that we're equipped.

You go online, you look for a 2020 Honda Accord

and you start with the least expensive one.

We're not always number one or number two,

but we're in the top 10.

And when you come here, the price you see

is the price you're gonna pay, never a game, ever.

We just don't do it.

And if we find out our guys do it, we get rid of them.

It's that simple, but it doesn't happen here.

So Google's put some measures in place recently,

just this past month.

Have you seen any impact from that

to the strategy in the market?

You know, we've spoken to our agency about it.

You know, Google's trying to make it more transparent.

But listen, I sat through a Hyundai ad board yesterday

and it was fascinating where most people

aren't even searching through Google anymore.

They're searching through chat GPT,

which to me was, you know, I felt like an idiot yesterday

and he's like, how do you search?

I'm like, well, I go into Google window

and he looked at me like I was a dinosaur.

Yeah.

So now dealers need to get smart.

And you know, yesterday was an eye-opening experience

for me because it's all about content now.

The better content you put out there,

you know, they gave us an example

like a woman will go online and say,

hey, I'm a mom with three children.

I need a third row.

I gotta be under 600 bucks a month.

What's the best SUV in the Montana market?

And then chat GPT will say, well, you go to, you know,

Montana forward or Montana Hyundai

because this is what they offer you.

So I think for us dealers, there's a reckoning with,

you know, Google, I think it's forced to do it

because they're getting caught in, you know,

putting Google best lease deal

and it'll say 199 with no disclaimer.

So customer thinks it's 199, but there's 39.99 down.

There's taxes, there's fees, there's seven grand

to get to 199.

And I think dealers want to change.

I do.

I think there's more good dealers than bad dealers.

I think dealers want to change and just look at Carvana.

I love how everyone closes their eyes

and says, oh, Carvana is not coming.

They're here.

They bought four Christ, they bought four Stilan stores here.

And the way they're going to do it

is not by fees and trickery.

They're going to do it by using their model.

Like what they do afterwards, that's a separate story,

but the consumers believe in them.

They're a trusted brand and they're trusted

because the price you see is the price you pay

and the car business, that's not the way

it's been for a very long time.

So to your employees and to the other dealers

that do business the way you do it,

competing in that marketplace,

how do you train that or how do you outculture that

so that you remain competitive

in that uneven playing field?

I think it's educating the consumers.

So if you go on our website, right on our homepage,

we have different videos and different excerpts

that'll show you what to ask when you go into a dealership.

Because you really should, when you're buying a used car,

first of all, we give you a lifetime engine warranty.

It's free.

No matter what the price is, you get it, it's included.

To me, that's a value proposition to the customer.

Second, we don't charge any fees, there's just nothing.

And I employ you after this to go online

and look at some dealers in a metro area

and then read the fine print.

It's comical, must buy a $39.95 warranty

to get this price.

That's what it says in the ad.

How is that transparent and fair to the consumer?

And if a dealer is watching this and says,

well, the hell with you, that's the way to do it,

then you do it that way, we're not gonna do it.

My partner Josh and I don't believe in it

and we're not gonna do it.

And it hurts us because we could be selling five times

the used cars if we played the game.

So it's trying to get that balance.

And Carvana spent, I don't know how many hundreds

of billions to get their message across.

It's hard for us as a small group to spend that type

of money to get our message across, but we're trying.

Have you done much with Amazon in that world?

They've got the Hyundai partnership.

They've got that same model, right?

It is very transparent.

And in fact, you don't own the F&I process.

The used car trade-in is a little different.

They've started with Hyundai

and they're expanding to other OEM relationships.

Is that something you're participating in?

We are not.

I don't think they have it right yet.

I think you have to make the dealer a true partner

and by taking away that F&I experience in the trade,

it's the whole true car model, right?

Why did true car fail?

Because true car created this system

where in order to get the customer,

you had to put the lowest price

and then you had to do the three card Monty

when the customer came in.

And dealers started saying slowly but surely,

we don't want this model.

It's not right.

It's not fair.

We're not gonna pay you $400 for a lead

that we're losing $400 on.

And true car kind of became the yesterday.

I think Amazon will figure it out.

They're pretty smart.

I think they'll definitely figure it out.

But I think they're going after Carvana in my opinion.

They have, everyone has an Amazon account.

So they have a lot of data.

Their distribution is outrageous.

I wouldn't be shocked

if they get into the new car business.

It's interesting, you know,

Stalantis is really the only one that's kind of,

you know, there was an article today.

Maybe it was somebody published it on LinkedIn saying,

you know, is Stalantis in bed with Carvana?

Like how all of a sudden did, you know,

Carvana by four Stalantis stores.

I don't know if other OEMs are going to approve them.

I'd be surprised

if some of the more recognizable ones would, but who knows?

But I think that was our end goal.

They would lose faith with the dealers

and there's the concept of the framework agreement, right?

That it challenges.

Yeah. Well, you can only have so many in a market,

but listen, Carvana has so many markets.

They could figure that out and they have so much money.

That's why when we talked about,

can you become a dealer now?

It's hard.

Like even a garbage crisis store is four or five million bucks.

Like stores are expensive today.

Oh, well, it's not easy

and they have all the money to do it.

Yeah. You are seeing quite a few new dealers

come in on the Nissan platform right now

at lower multipliers, right?

But, and it seems like Stalantis is more

than the Nissan stores, but that is-

Well, Stalantis you have to fix the ops, right?

So that's the savior in a Stalantis store.

You know, you have a big fixed ops business.

I was talking to a dealer yesterday

at the Hyundai Mienen

and I said, we were talking about Nissan.

He has a Nissan store.

And I said, you know,

how many Nissan stores for sale on there?

And he goes, every one of them.

You know, that was his joke that, you know,

everyone will sell a Nissan store today.

And that may be a place where, you know,

a new dealer can get involved.

You know, at a low, most of entry.

And Nissan's not going away.

They're going to figure it out.

Stalantis isn't going away.

They're going to figure it out,

but there's been some pain points get in there.

But if I was a new dealer,

that's probably where I'd start.

Buying an inexpensive store, you know,

it used to be every new dealer bought a Mitsubishi store,

you know, just to get a shingle.

I think Nissan's become almost a new Mitsubishi with that.

Like those are where those dealers should be started.

Yeah.

So when you think about coming into,

closing out 2025, going into 2026,

what are the things you think about

as the biggest threats to the industry

and things you're looking to solve for?

I think what we're really looking to solve for right now

is retention, service retention.

I think you're going to see a couple of challenge

in years in the new car business.

I hope I'm wrong.

But the people that I speak to,

we expect the next couple of years

to be a little bit challenged,

but fixed ops is always there.

So I would really important deal

is to work on their fixed ops,

work on their processes,

work on their store capacity,

you know, work with their people to train them

and use cars.

Cause generally as the new cars

have gotten more expensive,

the use cars,

it used to be the last few years,

they were too close,

but that's changing.

You know, the use car values

are going down a little bit.

So I'd expect we're going to try to focus

on use cars and fixed ops.

That's really our plan over the next couple of years.

But you have to build the facilities

to, you know, to have the capability to do it.

Well, it's interesting given my F&I background,

I'm fascinated by that lifetime engine piece

that you have there.

Both as a retention tool,

but then also the economics of it.

You know, is it through an F&I provider

or are you reinsuring it through a particular company?

And then I would imagine you're able to upsell, right?

Yeah, it's a little comprehensive warranty.

So I mean, it generates revenue, right?

But it's a base promise you can make to that customer.

Yeah, I think it's a market in promise for sure.

You know, because I think the consumer,

if you're shopping around like,

how do you separate yourself?

Well, it's the cost of a lifetime engine warranty.

You know, go to try to buy one,

you know, it's a couple of thousand bucks,

but it is a good tool for F&I to upsell for sure.

Because the whole cell is,

listen, we've taken care of the expensive stuff.

Here's why the product is a little bit less expensive

for you to purchase it.

And I'd say we have a pretty good take rate

on our warranties.

And it is reinsured.

And you know, for any dealer that does reinsurance,

reinsurance is a good thing.

So, definitely a reinsurance.

Has it, has the performance on that reinsurance piece

with the lifetime promise?

Has it, you know, is it still positive

or has it become challenged under inflation

and all those things?

No, it's a good product to reinsure.

We've done, we've done well with it.

And you know, lifetime,

you have to understand how long the customer's gonna own.

It's non-transferable.

So it's the lifetime you own the car.

And you know, the cycle is usually seven to eight years

in a car.

So it's a pretty good product.

But I think-

And they need to prove, they need to prove,

obviously they're doing the maintenance and whatnot,

which brings them back in.

What's the uptake or the upgrade penetration look like?

Yeah, I mean, I would say we probably get

somewhere between 25 and 30% more,

I think, off of those cars.

Just because the customer is inclined to do it.

You know, you don't have to do it with us.

So you just have to maintain it.

Oh really?

Why wouldn't it, why wouldn't you require it

through your own auto group?

You don't wanna pay that.

State of New York gets in the way of that.

State of New York now allow you to require a customer

to service it with you, but you can require them.

It's with the OEM too.

It's like if you have an engine problem

with your Hyundai, you just have to prove

you changed the oil.

So for us, it's the same thing.

You just have to prove to us

that you did the service somewhere.

But we're constantly marketing to those people.

So with our Island Family Plan,

we give kind of like CVS.

We give you points for shopping with us.

We send you discounts electronically through an app.

So we have an Island Auto Group app

where we can send you constant discounts.

But our real problem is facilities.

We have four to six weeks out

on a Chrysler appointment right now.

That's why we're built on Lagone from 16 lifts

to 35 lifts just to create more space.

Our Toyota store has 16 lifts.

We'll have 40 lifts in the next 12 months.

So that's our whole promise

is to make sure we can get customers in quickly

because the problem with service

is if you make them wait for three hours,

they're not coming back.

And right now we're making our customers wait way too long

and we gotta get better at it.

Yeah.

Well, an absolutely fascinating conversation.

I appreciate it.

As we wrap up, I would love to hear

and I love your approach to the business.

It is refreshing.

It will be interesting,

particularly the broker conversation

and then on this used car pricing

because I think you've nailed,

you've hit a nerve there, I think.

It'll be interesting to see some of the feedback you get

but when you look at your career

and you look at where you sit today,

looking back reflective,

what's maybe one of the proudest moments you've had

in your profession?

What moment stands out as a proud moment for you?

I think when I was blessed to buy my first store

which was Route 1 Jeep,

just to reflect back and go,

you set a goal in life

and you're able to accomplish it

but I think it's all the people that I've met.

This business is fascinating.

I've met some really great people in this business

and I don't think people understand

the car business, they're always like,

oh, you like the dentist or the lawyer.

I mean, I've met so many good family people

in this business and I probably have a dozen

to 15 people that worked for me in other places

that now have worked for me here for over 10 years

and that's what I'm the most proudest.

These people have followed me.

We've treated them fairly and they've made,

I have a bunch of guys that were salesmen for me

that are now general managers in our store.

That's a great feeling that we were able to help them

grow their business and grow their family

so I guess I'm proud of the people

that have supported me and we've supported.

Well, Marcello on that,

thank you for being on the Cardiola Ship Guide podcast

sharing your views and perspectives

and sharing your story as you've grown

from a humble beginnings and automotive

up to dealer of multi points

working on securing the future of automotive.

Thanks for being on the show.

Thank you for having me, Sam.

All right, hope you enjoyed that episode.

Please give the podcast a rating,

consider subscribing to the show

and check the show notes for links

to what we talked about.

Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you guys next time.

The King of Staten Island: Real Strategies to Win Against Deceptive Pricing, Stairsteps & Amazon | Marcello Sciarrino, Co-Owner of Island Auto Group

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