The Porsche Everyone Wants - Is The 997 Worth it?
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Car
Porsche 911S
The Porsche 911 is a fancy sports car that's been around for a long time, famous for being fast and fun to drive. People talk about it because it looks cool and can be used every day, not just on race tracks. When comparing different versions of the 911, folks often wonder which one is the best to own.
Term
PDK
PDK is a type of automatic transmission used in Porsche cars that helps change gears quickly and smoothly. It makes driving easier and can make the car faster.
Term
unicorn
A unicorn in car terms means a very rare car that many people want but is hard to find. It's like a special treasure among cars.
Term
Guards Red
Guards Red is a bright red color that Porsche cars used a lot in the 80s and 90s. It was very popular back then and is still loved by many fans today.
Term
original parts
Original parts are the same pieces that came with the car when it was built. They are important for keeping the car as it was originally made, which can be valuable for collectors.
Term
Arctic silver
Arctic silver is a shiny, metallic color that many Porsche cars come in. It's a popular choice because it looks sleek and stylish.
Term
Meteor gray
Meteor gray is a dark, shiny color that some Porsche cars can be painted. It looks classy and is a popular choice among buyers.
Term
Mexico blue
Mexico Blue is a bright blue color used by Porsche for their cars. It's known for being very noticeable and attractive.
Term
PPI
A PPI is a check done by a mechanic to see if a car has any problems before you buy it. It's like a health check for the car to make sure it's in good shape.
Term
bore scope
A bore scope is a special camera that lets mechanics look inside an engine without taking it apart. It's useful for checking if there are any problems inside the engine.
Term
paint correction
Paint correction is when you fix the scratches and marks on a car's paint to make it look shiny and new again. It's like giving the car a fresh coat of polish.
Part
clutch
The clutch is a part of the car that helps you change gears. When you press the clutch pedal, it disconnects the engine from the wheels so you can shift to a different gear smoothly.
Term
HVAC system
The HVAC system in a car is what keeps you warm in winter and cool in summer. It helps control the air inside the car.
Term
Porsche transmissions
Porsche cars have special gear systems called transmissions that help the car move. Sometimes, these need repairs, which can be a big deal for owners.
Term
915 gearbox
The 915 gearbox is a manual transmission found in older Porsche cars. It can be tricky to shift when the car is cold, so you have to be careful until it warms up.
Term
997 transmission
The 997 transmission is the type of gearbox found in a specific version of the Porsche 911 made between 2005 and 2012. It has some features that might feel old-fashioned compared to newer car transmissions.
Term
915 transmission
The 915 transmission is an older type of manual gearbox used in some classic Porsche 911 cars. It's known for giving drivers a very hands-on and engaging experience when shifting gears.
Part
short shift kit
A short shift kit is a part you can add to a car to make it easier and faster to change gears. It helps the driver shift more quickly, which can make driving feel sportier.
Term
991.2
The 991.2 refers to a specific version of the Porsche 911 that was made from 2016 to 2019. It has some new features compared to earlier models, making it more advanced.
Term
PPF
PPF is a special clear film that you can put on your car's paint to keep it safe from scratches and damage.
Company
Recaro
Recaro makes special seats for cars that help keep you comfortable and secure when you're driving fast.
Part
MCS coilovers
MCS coilovers are special parts that help adjust how a car rides and handles on the road. They can make the car feel sportier and more responsive.
Part
hood struts
Hood struts are parts that hold the car's hood up when you open it. If they fail, the hood can fall down unexpectedly.
Term
suspension
The suspension is what helps your car ride smoothly over bumps and keeps the tires in contact with the road. It's important for how well the car handles and how comfortable it feels to drive.
Term
platform
A platform is like the foundation of a car. It includes the main parts that make the car work and can affect how well it drives and feels.
Concept
Porsche market
The Porsche market is about how much people are buying and selling Porsche cars for. Sometimes prices go up or down based on how many people want them and how rare they are.
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that the car maker suggests you pay for a new car. It's like a starting point for how much the car should cost.
Car
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a fast sports car that is designed for great handling and performance. The 2016 version is especially known for its powerful engine and sporty features.
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Welcome to Renthusiast Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek
navigate the winding roads of Porsche Obsession,
exploring the good and the bad of Porsche ownership.
Grab your favorite beverage, pull up a chair,
and join us, Renthusiast Radio,
because life's too short not to talk about Porsches.
Hello, and welcome to Renthusiast Radio.
I'm Will and I'm Derek.
And in today's episode,
we're going to catch you guys up on my eight-month ownership
experience of my 2009 997.2 Carrera S.
It's a manual car and it is in Guards Red.
And this one's a really interesting one.
Derek and I were kind of doing our pregame discussion
before we started recording this episode.
And he's like, man, you haven't really talked about this car.
And I'm like, I counted the number of months I've owned it.
Like I've owned my 997.2 for eight months.
I have spent a lot of time sorting it and modding it.
And it's been in the shop quite a bit.
And I say that not bitterly.
We'll get into all that momentarily.
But I just can't believe we didn't talk about it
on at least one episode, Derek.
And so, man, today's the day, my friend.
I understand you have some questions.
And hopefully I have some answers for anybody out there
who's looking to get into this elusive generation.
It's like a ghost car.
It's been lurking in the background.
You see it in pictures as you've been buying and selling
other cars, this beautiful red, guards red car.
And it's like, wait, have we talked about that at all?
And so the answer is no.
And what's really interesting...
So here's what I'd love to accomplish on this
and where I hope the YouTube audience
is going to get a little bit of value
is talk about how you found it.
Because finding a manual 997.2 is a job in itself.
So how did you find it?
How did that go when you bought it?
What are the things you noticed when you bought it
that didn't seem right?
And then we can talk about the videos you've put out
in terms of how much money you've put into it
over the last eight months.
This is like a long-term hold for you, by the way,
in eight months.
This is like crazy.
And then, but really more to the point
is towards the end of this podcast,
I really want to get into what is your advice to folks
that are looking for a 997.2?
Is it worth it compared to the other cars,
the other 911s you've owned,
both older and younger?
And what are some of the watch outs?
If someone is standing,
let's say they're test driving a 997.2 this weekend,
what are the top two or three things
that they should really look for
when they look for this car?
So before we get into that,
if you folks are listening to this in your car
and when you get home,
you can go on our Enthusiast YouTube channel
and see a whole playlist about this car.
Will has done multiple videos about his acquisition,
his procurement,
and then maybe a video or two about how the car
wasn't really up to what he thought it would be,
his pain of going through getting it fixed and repaired,
and then his joy about finding out
what came out the other end of all that.
And so I encourage you all to go check that out.
Also, check out my YouTube channel,
11 After 9.
That's all spelled out.
11 After 9 for all of my Porsche goodness
when it comes to reviews.
And also the listening audience out there,
I continue to ask,
go check out our back catalog.
We now have over 80 episodes, and I know, right?
I know, and I'm not saying they're all good.
I'm not even saying they're even marginal, some of them.
But no, I'm just kidding.
What we really want to do is we want to make these
almost like a library.
You can go back and look at topics like today's
and get a sense about where we are
and what our advice is regarding a car
or a condition when it comes to Porsche.
So with all that being said,
well, 997.2, you're at the very base of the great recession
of 08 Porsche scales way back when it comes
to the amount of cars coming to the US.
The PDK comes out for the 997.2 generation.
Porsche is pushing that really hard.
So manual cars are very hard to find
because the take rate is not what it was
in the generation before.
And so people looking for those cars,
I mean, that's kind of the unicorn.
A guard's red manual car.
Does that sport exhaust?
No, it doesn't.
Okay.
I wanted it, but that's Hen's teeth, man.
And by the way, to slim the numbers even more
and to support the idea that guards
is a pretty special color, at least on that generation.
Any dealers that were ordering these things,
they were doing like the silvers, the really low risk colors
just because the market was what the market was.
And so you start to get into a manual Carrera S 997.2
and an interesting color.
And guards really suits the car, by the way.
Not an easy find, my friend.
Not an easy find.
Yeah, it's funny.
Guards red huge in the 80s into the 90s
and fell out of favor in the early 2000s.
I kind of feel like in that 2009, 2010 range,
guards just was considered passe and old.
Whereas now I feel like it's come back
and people love the guards red
because it really does suit the body style.
So real quick for the audience,
what was your search algorithm when it came to this car?
Well, I want to clarify something that you said early on.
The car I think that I ultimately landed on,
and I will answer your question in a moment,
it was fairly represented.
So I ended up getting a higher mileage example,
relatively speaking.
So it was 85,000 and it had a lot of the original parts on it.
So it had the original clutch,
it had the original suspension.
And so while it was a little disappointing,
I had to do some of the things I had to do so quickly.
It also wasn't like, oh my God, this is out of control.
Somebody hid something, it just was time.
So all in, I was not necessarily aggravated
or anything like that.
So I just wanted to go on record
and say I do feel like the car was fairly represented.
I'm somebody who really believes
in publishing what to buy content.
And I think you and I, for example,
Derek are uniquely positioned in that endeavor
because we have our channels.
And so we're able to publish a video that says,
hey, this is what I'm looking for.
This is why I'm looking for it.
If you have something that you're thinking about selling yourself
or if you have a friend who's thinking about selling
or something, send me an email.
I did that with this car.
So I published a want to buy video specifying
what I was looking for.
But for folks without a YouTube channel,
like I'm a big believer in want to buy ads in Facebook groups,
on the PCA classifieds.
On the one hand, people will say,
oh man, you're drawing a target on yourself
and you're going to overpay if you do that.
You're losing your leverage when you're showing your cards
and you're saying, I say bullshit,
nobody's going to make you overpay for anything
and I want leads.
And you know what else?
If I find something killer, like the car I found,
like, I mean, I'm willing to pay up for it a little bit.
In the case of this particular car,
I got a very good price on it.
So not only am I tickled to death by the spec,
and by what it is, the rarity of the car, the platform,
but also I feel good about what I'm in it financially for.
And so that's always, I think, a plus
for anybody who's a financially motivated buyer, Derek.
So I don't know that helps.
So that's an interesting point.
Yeah, no, well, I think people are going to be like,
well, people don't have your platform will
to do a want to buy and get reach.
And that is true to a point.
But I know that there have been times
where someone's put a want to buy on the PCA,
or on runless forums, and I 100% have responded
if I have a car I'm looking to sell.
Like, I remember when I was selling my 993,
there were some people putting up,
hey, does anyone have a C4?
And I responded to them with my car,
thinking like, hey, maybe this will be a nice easy transaction.
With that being said, to your other astute point,
you do have to have the ability
to pay a little more if the car is special.
And so an 09 stick, it's just a rare car compared to 80.
S, by the way.
It's an S car.
That's right.
It's an S car.
Stick, a rare car.
And so you're just, unfortunately,
you're just going to have to pay up.
And this goes back to our previous podcast
where we talk about values in how they've traveled
over the last five or 10 years.
But if it's a special color, Albert Blue,
or if it's a special car, 09 cards, red, stick S,
just be prepared.
If you would ever want to buy someone's going to come at you,
you might have to pay a little bit more.
But it is what it is.
Yeah, but you know, I'm telling you, man,
if you got somebody who's been thinking about selling,
but they've been hesitant just because they don't want
to deal with all the bullshit.
I mean, you are advantaged,
even though you've published a want to buy ad,
you engage in conversations with this guy.
Like you're hot now.
I mean, you're solvent, you're motivated,
you're ready to make a deal, and he's thinking, man,
I don't want to have to post it for sale ad.
I don't want to have to deal with tire kick, blah, blah, blah.
So really, I mean, once you get that conversation started,
it really can work for both parties, you know?
It's true.
It's true.
The idea of selling a car sometimes is worse than the process.
And you want to find somebody who, here's who you want to find.
God, I'm bad.
You want to find the guy who has submitted to bat,
maybe like a week ago.
So you want him to like, maybe he's engaged in conversations
with him and they've asked for their initial pictures,
and he's really begun thinking through what it's going to look
like to have to manage an auction.
And some guys don't care.
They're excited because they think they can maximize their exit there.
Other guys are like, God, I don't want to deal with the peanut gallery.
God, I don't want to do this.
God, I don't want to do that.
And so then you appear out of nowhere.
You're the great savior.
You're going to help him avoid the pain.
Having that person respond to a want to buy, you know, if you look out,
then I guess that makes sense.
So yeah.
So in the case of my car, I mean, that was what it was.
I got, I don't know.
I bet you I got seven or eight, 997.2 Carrera S manuals sent over to me.
And I'm telling you, man, I mean, not to disrespect anybody who sent them,
but they were all like run of the mill standard issue Arctic silver
or maybe that one shade gray or I think it's meteor, which is a pretty color.
But there was none of them that really had outside of what they were
being a 997.2 Carrera S manual.
None of them really were that exciting, you know?
So I was, I was very pleased to have this guards red sent to me.
I was at the Porsche dealership the other day and I was looking down a row
of cars and it was the classic, like, I think it was at a row of McCons.
It might have been.
Let's say I was looking at 20 cars, 18 of them were white or black or gray.
And there were two that were stuck, like sticking out.
One was a guards red car.
And one was like, I think it was like maybe a Mexico blue car.
And they popped and they were eye catching.
And so guards red definitely has that ability.
So you knew what you were buying, which is nice.
There was, I'm sure you did a PPI on this car.
I did.
I did.
That was an interesting experience.
Had nothing to do with the car or the seller.
Had to do with the, my comment had to do with the nature of the shop.
I had the car boryscoped because reportedly those motors can score.
And, you know, I paid up for that.
And I got my report back and I said, hey, can I get some pictures?
You know, it's going to be really handy for me to have pictures of these findings
because it came back clean so that I can convey those with the car when it comes time.
And oh, we don't take pictures.
Well, I mean, I love you to death and all, but how can I prove?
Hey, how do I know you didn't see anything and you even did it?
B, how can I prove to the next guy?
Well, you know, a lot of our clients, they just, our customers,
they just point to the invoice and on the paper, it said no scoring or something as basic as that.
And it was just like, dude, are you kidding me?
So yes, I had a PPI done.
Do I believe that it's clean?
Yes, I do.
Do I wish that I had photographic evidence?
100%.
So by the way, another insider tip, when you hire a shop to do a PPI guys,
ask them specifically what the deliverable is and ask for pictures.
Absolutely.
Yep.
And into our printout with an over rev report, which is equally important.
Evidence, documentation is what you're paying for, you know.
That's interesting.
I hadn't heard as much on those, what is it, the 9A1 motor in the 2009s?
They can still score as well.
There's documentation of that.
Yeah, reportedly they can.
I mean, I don't know.
For me, there was a peace of mind factor.
That's why I paid a little bit more to have it done.
But I mean, I haven't seen anything that says this plentiful and it's a big deal
and you got to deal with it, you know.
I know on the 997.1s, the S's were prone to it, not the bases.
And so probably, hey, listen, peace of mind, at least you had it checked and with the boroscope shows.
It's boroscope, not boroscope.
I keep saying boroscope.
Boroscope.
No, it's boroscoped, I believe.
But either way, we know we're talking about.
That's my New England accent, boroscope.
All right, so you get in the car and did you notice anything that was off?
Dude, the thing presented beautifully.
I mean, if you start to get up on the paint, you see it really needs a paint correction.
But man, I mean, it is, the car underneath, I have some footage of the car underneath.
I just did the clutch and so I went to the shop.
We had the car up in the air.
Dude, the thing is for 85,000 miles, it is an astonishingly good condition.
So I was very, very pleased about that.
The interior is strong.
I mean, there was nothing, the one surprise, well, there are two surprises.
One surprise was, and I didn't know this, the HVAC system blows foam, dude.
I didn't know that the 997 still did that.
Now, that's a 996 thing.
It starts to degrade.
Can you explain what that is?
Yeah.
Yeah. So in the HVAC piping, I guess the walls of that piping have a foam that
push a applied to them, I guess to insulating foam, I think.
But over time, it begins to degrade.
And so you'll be driving the car and you're like, oh, I'm getting cold.
Let me turn on the heat.
And black dust comes like, and it's like little particles.
I mean, it's not even dust.
I don't want to say it like that.
But you know, you'll just get a...
It's like pieces of styrofoam almost coming out.
Yeah, dude.
I mean, and I've got footage of that on my channel as well somewhere back there,
so you can see what it looks like.
But it's on the dash.
It'll lay on the dash or in the floor.
And the problem is, if you have a light interior and you accidentally step on a chunk of foam,
dude, it will stain your carpet.
It's like, it's crazy how it works in there.
Really?
Yeah.
It turns the dust and gets ground in.
Yeah.
Anyway, I was really surprised that the car did that.
I mean, it's not enough to...
I mean, I didn't even say anything about it.
It's just like, huh, this is interesting.
But a main focus of mine with this car is the transmission.
Wait, hang on.
Just back up for one sec.
How do you fix that?
Do you literally have to disassemble the dash or do you just live with it?
I've been told you have to take the dash apart and get in there and deal with it.
I don't know.
I understand it's very labor-intensive and I understand I don't want to have anything to do with it.
And mine is very, very intermittent.
So I don't think it's all just degrading and falling to pieces.
Got it.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
I was just curious because I haven't run across that yet in any car.
So that's interesting.
Yeah, dude.
I don't know.
All right, transmission.
Transmission, so...
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If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums.
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Yep, even on weekends.
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What's in your wallet?
I have a real long and story past with Porsche transmissions.
I've had to rebuild two.
I've had problems with transmissions, whereas others have never had any problems with transmission.
I get in this car and I literally like, man, I put on my head cam and I captured every moment
like 100% honest and transparent.
Like there was no editing.
I threw the damn head cam on.
The guy pulled the car off the transport.
I paid him and rolled.
And as soon as I went into second gear, the freaking thing sounded like a ground.
There was a grind.
Shifting into second.
Shifting into second.
And I'm like, God, damn it.
Fuck.
Because I had actually specifically asked the shop that did the PPI said,
I want you to take the car out.
I want you to shift it.
I want to know if there are any catches, anything whatsoever.
And he told me, oh, we drove.
It's totally fine.
Shifts like butter.
Dude, it caught from first to second the first time I drove it.
Man, I'm telling you, man, my stomach dropped.
I'm like, no.
Because, and I came to learn this later, to have one of those transmissions rebuilt
is a big deal.
And there's only one shop reportedly that will do it in the U.S.
because you have to have like a, I'll make it up.
It's like a 10,000 pound press or something to get the thing opened or put back together
or whatever the hell it is.
And so many shops with that kind of force, they just won't,
they don't have the tool to do it.
They don't want to be doing it in their shop period.
Lovely.
It's dangerous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, all this well, it turns out
that basically when that gearbox is cold, it's almost like a 915.
You really need to be ginger with it as you drive the car until it gets hot.
I mean, once that car gets hot, once that gear oil warms up, man, it is no issues.
It truly is butter.
But when it's cold, you got to be a little bit careful.
Now, it was not, I don't want to say it was a grind.
It was more of what I would call like a hitch.
You know, you just kind of got to ease it in, let it fall into gear.
Yeah, like a little hesitation.
Yeah.
I wish to put a bow on it, man.
It's just a little bit surprising given the modern nature of the car.
So maybe somebody out there could blow that out a little bit for us and tell us in the comments,
like, you know, what is it about the 997 transmission that isn't as modern as you'd
think it would be?
Maybe it's an added feature, Will.
You know, it's a Harkins back.
They want you to feel the heritage of a 915 transmission where the second term is a bit of that.
Well, you know, it's interesting.
I have, I put a short shift kit on it.
I did the numeric racing solution on the cables and the shifter.
And it has been, that has cleaned it up.
That has been a game changer, but it's a transmission that still requires some skill.
You know, you got to know how to make it work for you.
And for me as a driver, I've enjoyed that.
I just shot, I just shot a 20 minute video, point of view driving video where I talk about
the car and the experience of driving it and how all the mods come together to make
it feel a certain way.
And actually, I shot that same video three times because I had camera issues.
But the more I drove the car, the more I really came to appreciate how working that
gearbox can be fun and fulfilling.
And that's what I would say about the transmission.
Do you think it's more fulfilling than your 991.2?
Which part?
In terms of shifting.
Manual to manual.
It's different.
That 991.2 is very surgical.
I put a short shift kit on it.
It's, it's, it's different.
That's an interesting transmission.
We, we don't need to talk about that too much today, but it's my understanding that it
shares the bulk of its parts with the PDK.
So there's just something that feels a little bit different about it.
I mean, it shifts like it should and all this, but anyway, maybe a different topic for a
different day, but no, it feels more mechanical.
I'm not going to say vintage, but it definitely requires it's, it's a little bit more artistic
than that 991.2 where any dummy could jump in and drive it.
Yeah, that's fair.
So $13,000 you ended up spending putting into this car over the course of the eight
months to try to make it perfect.
Real quick, what was the, what was the list of things that were done?
And really more importantly, I just want to kind of move to
your impressions of after it was done.
What do you think of it now?
Yeah, you know, I want to just touch on a word you used, which is perfect.
And I do have your reputation of going way too deep, way too fast with these,
with these cars and admittedly like that's well earned.
If anybody's been out there has been following along, like all my content has really cataloged
my acquisition and improvement journey of these various cars, these various generations.
And in this case, I didn't want to get it perfect, you know, if I wanted it perfect,
I'd paint correct the thing and I'd have it wrapped in PPF.
What I wanted, the goal of this project was to get a well running,
sorted bullet proof, back roads ripper.
And I would say with everything that I did, goal achieved.
Now, what I'm doing here is I'm screwing myself because as soon as I get off this podcast,
I'm going to go get in that car and I'm going to go run an errand and it's going to break.
But no man, I did plugs, coils, motor mounts.
I did the clutch, I did the mods like the short shift kit, the cables.
I did the exhaust, I did Recaro sports receipts.
I did MCS coilovers.
Hood struts, replace the hood struts.
And you know what, you know how that is, dude, because when they go bad,
the front falls on your head, which sucks.
So all those things came together, man, to, you know,
make what I would say is an incredibly involving driver's car.
That car out of the box, at least with 85,000 miles on it,
can be a little tame.
I won't call it lame, but the exhaust note, you know, out of that motor is just kind of
ho hum.
The suspension was tired, so the precision wasn't necessarily there.
And so these things that I've done, you know, the seats are super heavy
and also they're not particularly sport focused, at least the ones that I had.
So all these little touches came together to make it, I mean, it's a stupendous platform.
I mean, spoiler alert, I think it deserves the hype.
The size is awesome.
And I mean, I think my ownership longevity here, for me,
nine, eight, nine months, I mean, that should speak for itself, you know.
I mean, I feel like the Dot 2 is just put on such a pedestal.
And people have decided that that is, you know, the penultimate portion of own,
especially in a stick.
You've owned, now you haven't, you've never owned it to my knowledge in 997.1,
but you have owned a 996, 993, and then following on a 991.2.
So if we're going to compare it to its immediate brothers,
and this is really just more for the audience out there, like they have,
I don't even know what they're going for now.
Those cars go for maybe between 70 and 90, the Dot 2s, the 997.2s it is.
So that's right in the wheelhouse of a 991.2.
It's two to three times what the 996s are going for.
Do you feel like the 997 really is up there with like,
it doesn't bridge the gap between those old cars and those new cars?
I'm just pausing, I want to think about this for a minute.
When I first bought the car, I thought maybe the hype was undeserved.
I thought, you know, guys were chasing the rarity for the factors we talked about
on the front end of this podcast, you know, the time it was manufactured
and the PDK introduction and all this.
But I do think, man, a well-setup 997.2 is a killer car.
I think it does draw forward certain things that come from the earlier cars,
like the size, the directness of the steering, how nimble it can be,
how you can really mesh with the car when you get it hot.
I do think so, man.
I think the answer to that is yes, it brings into a more modern platform,
the ethos of its older brethren.
If someone was looking on Bring a Trailer right now at a 997.2,
what are the top three questions, top two questions that you would suggest that they ask
the seller before they click buy?
I mean, I would want a boar scope.
I just would.
I don't know, man.
I mean, I'm a little...
Some people don't care.
I have a really good friend.
It's like, dude, you're crazy to even consider that.
Go rip on a car.
For me, it's just like, why not?
Especially if I'm buying something at auction, on an auction,
produce the results, dude.
Like, make sure that you can see some evidence that there's no scoring in the comments
or in the uploaded pictures.
I'd want to know, is it the original clutch?
I'd want to know, is it the original suspension?
Outside of that, man, I don't know.
Like I said, knock on wood.
I feel like it's actually a pretty robust platform that doesn't seem to have any of
these Achilles heels that maybe other generations have.
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts,
it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One.
If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums.
He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist
with your banking needs.
Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way.
What's in your wallet?
Terms apply.
See capitalone.com slash bank.
Capital One NA member FDIC.
If you, let's say that this car gets totaled, you know, this is a weird question,
but it's one I thought about and you get an insurance check for what you have into it.
Would you go buy another one?
I mean, you're talking to a guy who has a massive Porsche ADD.
I want to say yes.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm into the car, let's see.
I bet you I'd get a check for like 80 grand.
I mean, I, you know, I don't usually just share that kind of maybe 82.
I'm not sure.
I got to look back at the agreed upon value.
I'm glad you're bringing this up because I need to probably increase that, increase that.
But, right, I think it would be hard to find.
And this goes back to the podcast you and I published about how the Porsche market's broken.
The question wouldn't be, hey, would you go buy another one?
The question would be, hey, could you find another one?
You know?
Yeah.
No, I get that.
And then of course you factor in all of the stress and anxiety and annoyance of, you know,
vetting cars and going through all that again.
But taking all that out of it, what I'm really trying to get to the bottom of for people,
like there's so many people that listen to this that hear about the 997 and it's just like,
it is the best and you really need to have it.
And they're looking at these prices going up and they've just convinced themselves that,
well, I got to pony up 90 grand.
I got to pony up 80 grand to buy this car.
But is it a $80,000 or $90,000 driving experience?
You know, like if I put that up against, and again, I'm just shooting from the hip here.
But like, I mean, if I put that up against your 991.2,
I put that up against a higher mileage GT4, 2016 GT4.
And what would be another one that I put there?
Let's say 993, because you can get a 993 for 85.
Do you feel like that sits as the same kind of driving experience as those other two cars?
I mean, you know, the question is unfair because it's all about goals.
You know, what are you trying to achieve?
Here's what I think you can achieve with the 997.2.
Relative peace of mind about the motor.
By the way, one thing I haven't touched on is the massive power this damn Carrera has.
It's stupid fast.
I mean, the back end wants to break loose.
You got to know what you're doing.
This 997.2 has the robust motor.
It has the right dimensions, the right steering feel to be a ripper.
Got a lot of power.
But I would submit to you, had I returned mine to kind of like,
I want to replace this with a factory suspension and, you know,
it would be a wonderful daily driver.
It would certainly be more than comfortable enough to daily drive,
to take on road trips, to run down to a million back from North Carolina.
Like, not a problem.
I think the car deserves the money it's getting.
I think it'll continue to be appreciating and appreciated.
And so, I mean, to answer your question, I mean, I didn't mean to sound dodgy.
I knew what you were asking.
Like, yes, I would replace it with another 997.2.
Do you have the stock exhaust on there?
No, I'm running the fister.
You are running your fister.
And do you find that makes a big difference?
I think it makes a great difference.
I think that's the one weak point of this car is the exhaust note.
I just, I don't understand why it is, but it's largely regarded as a motor
that just does not create a soulful noise.
With the DFI motor.
Yes, the DFI motor.
But Darren's done a great job of really waking it up and giving it some soul.
But it's just not, it's not the same as other generations.
And that was my biggest complaint when I had my 997.2 was that it was so quiet.
It felt Honda-ish.
And then I ended up going too far with an exhaust and a crossover pipe.
And then it was too loud.
So I never found that happy balance, but I can see how it's worth it.
Well, I mean, you know, the exhaust noise is definitely a big part of the equation for me
of enjoyment.
This car is coming up a little bit short.
Is that like when you look at the pie, the percentage of the pie of enjoyment that it
makes up, it's coming up short there.
But I mean, the more I drive this with the mods and the more I learn it and I learn what
the car wants to do and how to get the most out of the shifting.
And dude, it is a wonderful platform.
The performance is sick.
And you know, I will just say this, the things that I've learned to do in the car,
the kind of speeds I can do around curves and feel very comfortable.
It's a fun, fun ride.
And so.
Yeah, so there you go.
That comes a long way, dude, because we were both not big fans of the 997.2.
Up until this ownership experience you had.
And it's kind of cool to have a change of heart as you get to know the car.
And maybe in this case, a couple mods do make it a little bit more driver-focused, driver-friendly.
And you can check out Will's videos on Renthusi's YouTube channel
to kind of go down the rabbit hole when it comes to that.
I'll make one more point and then we can jump off.
I, when I buy a car and I have to throw, I'll make it up $13,000 at it.
And let's just say all of a sudden, you know, I'm underwater
when you look at what the car would bring on the open market.
Like what feeling does that create in my mind?
Is it, man, I'm pissed off.
I'm irritated.
This sucks.
I feel trapped.
Or is it, I don't really care because it's the price I'm willing to pay to get the car
where I want it because I really enjoy the car.
In this case, it's the latter.
Like I don't know what I could sell the car for.
I mean, it's a higher mileage example.
But I don't really care.
Like maybe I am in upside down, but I really, really enjoy the car.
I enjoy the drive and so I don't care.
So I don't know if that tells you anything, Derek, too, and tells the listeners
whether or not it's worth owning one of these, but that's my, that's how I feel about it.
Well, no, it does because you get into a point with a car where you're putting
good money after bad and you're like, how can I exit this car?
How can I get it to a place where I feel good selling it so I can be ethical?
Yeah.
But at the same time.
It holds you hostage.
Right, right, right.
And, and, you know, and, and move it along.
And so the fact that that's not on your mind, I guess speaks volumes.
And I hope the audience maybe got something out of this in terms of a first hand change
of heart when it comes to the 997.2.
And again, you know, with Will's video as he has up online, he kind of goes through
all this in much greater detail.
But, you know, for me, it's nice to hear because I only ever test drove the 997S
when I bought my base and I just ended up buying the base because it was a lot more
cost effective at the time.
And maybe in this case, I think the S might have been a better car.
And so, you know, maybe if I had to do it over again.
It's fast.
I was driving that thing in the rain yesterday.
Straight line flat out, probably at 40 miles an hour, second gear,
like the back tire just started spinning.
Now I am one of those shitty P-zeros, right?
But still.
Okay.
Yeah, I've had that happen before.
Give yourself, give yourself a little gift of some Michelin's new being good shaped.
Hate it.
I mean, like I said, I just spent all the money, but I probably will do it.
Thanks for filling me in on this.
Hope the audience enjoyed it.
Put all the questions down in the comments.
We would love to read them and get back to you guys and answer them.
And well, I will see you next time.
All right, my dude.
Always a good time.
Later, brother.
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts,
it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One.
If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums.
He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist
with your banking needs.
Yep.
Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about.
In a good way.
What's in your wallet?
Terms apply.
See capitalone.com slash bank.
Capital One NA member FDIC.
About this episode
Exploring the ins and outs of owning a 2009 Porsche 997.2 Carrera S, Will shares his eight-month journey with this manual transmission car in Guards Red. The episode dives into the challenges of finding a manual 997.2, the modifications made, and the lessons learned during ownership, including the quirks of the transmission and the importance of thorough inspections. Will provides valuable advice for prospective buyers, discussing the rarity of this model and what to look for when considering a purchase. The conversation also touches on the car's performance, exhaust note, and overall driving experience.
Original notes
In this episode of Rennthusiast Radio, you hear the full ownership story behind one of the most talked-about modern 911s. Will breaks down eight months with his 2009 997.2 Carrera S manual in Guards Red. The good, the bad, and the expensive.
You hear how he found a rare manual car in a sea of PDKs. You hear what felt off right after delivery. You hear how $13,000 in maintenance and mods changed the car, and his opinion of the platform.
We talk real buying advice. What to ask sellers. What PPIs miss. Why borescope proof matters. Why cold second gear surprises owners. Why the 997.2 feels different from both older air-cooled cars and newer 991s.
If you are shopping for a 997.2, this episode matters. If you already own one, this will sound familiar.
Topics covered:
• Finding a rare 997.2 manual
• Ownership reality after 80k+ miles
• Transmission behavior and cold shifting
• Exhaust, suspension, and seat upgrades
• $13k in work, what was worth it
• Is the 997.2 really an $80k driving experience
• Would he buy another one
Watch Will’s full video series on the car on the Rennthusiast YouTube channel.
Check out Derek’s reviews and ownership stories on ElevenAfterNine.
Subscribe, leave a comment, and tell us if you think the 997 is actually worth it.
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