The truth about today's Porsche 911 and Festival of the Unexceptional #273
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Audi A6
The Audi A6 is a luxury car that is comfortable and has a lot of high-tech features. It's a good choice for people who want a nice car for driving and traveling.
Car
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
The Chevrolet Monte Carlo is a stylish car that was popular a long time ago and is known for being comfortable. It also has a history of racing, which makes it interesting to car fans.
Concept
Monte Carlo Rally
The Monte Carlo Rally is a famous car race that takes place in the mountains of Monaco. It's known for being tough because it often happens in winter, with snow and ice making it challenging for drivers.
Car
Metro 6R4
The Metro 6R4 is a special rally car made by Austin Rover for racing in the 1980s. It was designed to be fast and handle well on rough roads.
Car
Proton Preve
The Proton Preve is a small car made in Malaysia that is designed to be affordable and practical for everyday use. It’s not very famous outside of its home country, but it’s a good option for people looking for a budget-friendly vehicle.
Car
Morris Marina
The Morris Marina is a car that was made in the 1970s. It was designed to be budget-friendly and was often used by families because it was spacious and practical.
Part
rubber bung
A rubber bung is a small rubber plug that seals holes in cars. It keeps water and dirt from getting inside, especially in places like the trunk or tailgate.
Car
Pontiac Gtos
Car
Ferrari 250 Gtos
The Ferrari 250 GTO is a famous sports car from the 1960s. It's very rare and valuable because only a few were made, and it has a strong history in racing.
Term
plug-in hybrid
A plug-in hybrid is a car that uses both a gas engine and an electric motor. You can charge it by plugging it in, and it can drive using just electricity for a while before it needs to use gas.
Term
three-litre petrol
A three-litre petrol engine is an engine that can hold three liters of fuel. Bigger engines usually provide more power, but they can also use more gas.
Car
Land Rover Range Rover
The Range Rover is a high-end SUV that is great for both off-road adventures and comfortable city driving. It's known for being luxurious and powerful.
Term
V8 engine
A V8 engine has eight cylinders, which helps it produce a lot of power. It's often used in bigger cars and trucks to give them strong performance.
Car
BMW 530e
The BMW 530e is a car that uses both gas and electricity to run, which helps save fuel and reduce pollution.
Term
extras
Extras are special features you can add to a car that aren't included in the basic model. They can make the car more luxurious or improve its performance, but they also increase the price.
Term
configurator
A configurator is a website tool where you can choose different options for a car, like its color and features, to see how much it will cost. It helps you build your ideal car before buying it.
Car
Land Rover Discovery 4
The Land Rover Discovery 4 is a big, sturdy SUV that can handle rough terrain and is comfortable for families. It was made from the early 2000s until 2016.
Car
Mitsubishi Shogun
The Mitsubishi Shogun is a type of SUV that can handle rough terrain and is good for outdoor activities like skiing. It was a popular choice for people who needed a tough vehicle.
Term
2.8-litre diesel
A 2.8-litre diesel engine is a type of engine that uses diesel fuel and has a size of 2.8 liters. Diesel engines are often more efficient than regular gasoline engines, which means they can go further on less fuel.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that looks really cool and drives very fast. It's been around for a long time and is loved by many people because it’s fun to drive and can be used every day.
Term
992.2
'992.2' is a way to describe a newer version of the Porsche 911 that has some updates compared to the earlier models. It's like a refresh of the same car.
Term
twin turbo
Twin turbo means the engine has two turbochargers that help it produce more power. This makes the car faster and can improve fuel efficiency.
Term
PDK
PDK is a type of automatic transmission used in Porsche cars that changes gears very quickly. This makes driving smoother and faster compared to regular automatic transmissions.
Term
wood inserts
Wood inserts are pieces of wood used inside a car to make it look nicer. They are often found on the dashboard or doors to give the car a fancy feel.
Car
Porsche Panamera
The Porsche Panamera is a luxury car that looks different from the 911. It's designed for more comfort and space while still being fast and sporty.
Car
BMW M5
Car
BMW M4
The BMW M4 is a sporty car that’s really fun to drive and looks stylish. It’s made for people who enjoy speed and performance, especially when driving on highways or in traffic.
Car
Porsche Carrera S
The Porsche Carrera S is a sporty car that offers a mix of performance and comfort, making it suitable for daily driving while still being fun to drive on the weekends.
Car
Tesla S Model
The Tesla Model S is a fancy electric car that doesn’t need gas and can drive really far on a single charge. It has cool tech features, like being able to drive itself a little bit, which makes it interesting to talk about.
Car
Porsche Carrera T
The Porsche Carrera GT is a super-fast sports car that was made a while ago and is really special because it’s built for speed and performance. People love it because it’s one of the best cars Porsche has ever made.
Concept
Grand Prix
A Grand Prix is an important car race, especially in Formula 1, where the best drivers in the world compete on different tracks. It's exciting and often has a lot of fans watching.
Brand
McLaren
McLaren is a famous car company that makes fast and high-tech sports cars. They also race in Formula 1, which is a top-level car racing series.
Concept
DRS
DRS is a system in Formula 1 that helps cars go faster by reducing air resistance. Drivers can use it when they are close to another car, making it easier to overtake.
Concept
FIA championships
FIA championships are important racing competitions organized by a global motorsport body. They include different types of racing, like car racing on tracks and rally racing on roads, and they highlight the best drivers and teams in the world.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Mercedesbenz 300
The Mercedes-Benz 300 SL is a classic car that looks really unique with its special doors that open up. It was made a long time ago and is now very valuable because it’s beautiful and fast.
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Jaguar Dtype
The Jaguar D-Type is a classic race car from the 1950s that is famous for being very fast and winning big races. It has a unique shape that helps it go faster, making it a favorite among car lovers.
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Welcome back to the Intercooler podcast,
everybody, episode 273 with Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel.
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Andrew, this one's a busy show.
Yeah, lots going on.
You've been having some fun this weekend.
There's some motorsport stuff that we want to talk about,
a couple of cars that we've been spending time in as well.
It's a busy show, so we better crack on, really.
Tell us about your weekend.
Oh, OK.
My weekend.
Well, my weekend actually started on Friday
when I went to the first ever Pride and Power car show.
Where was that?
That was at the British Motor Museum, Gaiden.
And as the name suggests, this is a car show
for the LGBTQ plus community and its supporters.
And it was the first one.
And they had no idea how many people would turn up.
But the offer was really good because all you had to do
was register your car.
And it could be any car.
I turned up in an Audi A6.
And just by doing that, that got you free entry to the museum,
which is usually a 17-quid ticket.
Oh, nice.
So you turned up.
And it was a really lovely event.
They didn't know how many people were going to turn up.
They thought it might be sort of, you know,
10 or 12 cars.
I think there were only 200 in the end.
And it's just one of those happy, nice events,
walking around everything from, you know,
there were Ferrari's and GT3 RS's and, you know,
lots of interesting stuff.
And then I got to wander around the British Motor Museum,
which I have not done in years and years and years.
I've never been.
So I've been to at least one event there.
Yeah.
I don't see the museum.
Well, we should go more.
Maybe we should do a podcast.
We should do something with those guys.
Yeah.
Because it's just full of really interesting stuff,
weird prototypes.
You know, the first example of this,
the last ever example of that,
you know, all the minis that won the Monte Carlo Rally
are all there.
And, oh, goodness me.
I'll forget almost everything that I saw.
But there's very little boring stuff in there.
And there's just an awful lot of stuff.
And so they've got the prototype Metro 6R4 rally car.
Oh, cool.
Which is really, really cool.
And it looks really, really dogged.
I mean, you just walk in there and you just sort of walk around.
It's not sort of like the, on the same sort of scale
as the Porsche and Mercedes museums,
but you don't have to go to Stuttgart to see it.
And it's really good.
And it is literally, I mean,
I'm talking literally three minutes off the M40 Junction 12.
So it couldn't be more central.
It couldn't be better located.
It's got JLR and Aston Martin next door to it.
And it's a really, really good, interesting facility.
So yeah, go take a look.
Excellent.
But that was Friday.
So on Saturday, yes, I rather got my dates.
I didn't get them mixed up.
I just didn't connect one event with another.
So I went all the way to Gaiden to do that.
And it was my wife's birthday.
And I promised to take her out for dinner.
So I then went all the way back to South Wales.
And we went out.
We had dinner.
And then very early on Sunday morning,
I drove to Lincolnshire.
It's a fair way, isn't it?
Well, if you live in South Wales,
yes, Lincolnshire is definitely a fair way.
Where I was judging the 10th Festival of the Unexceptional,
specifically the Concorde Laudanaire that it contains.
I'm sure that almost everybody who is listening to this
has heard of the Festival of the Unexceptional.
But if you haven't been,
it's quite difficult to explain what the magic is.
I've tried.
I've written a story which I think we're going to post
on the brilliant award-winning TI website and app on Wednesday.
If you're listening to this on Monday or on Tuesday,
and if you're listening to it on Wednesday,
it'll already be there.
And I do have a crack in that story
at just trying to explain what is so,
so wonderful about this event.
I mean, it's kind of like the antidote to a typical Concorde,
a sort of, you know, Salon, Preve, Pebble Beach,
which are wonderful events in their own rights.
Yeah, but they're ripe for sort of lampooning, aren't they?
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, and it's just, you know,
those are cars where, you know,
those are events where you get the most expensive,
the most sort of special, massively restored cars.
And everyone takes it very seriously.
Everybody takes it.
Oh, it's a reverential event.
And judges go round with clipboards and scorecards
and, you know, measuring, you know,
width of exhaust pipe and spark plug gaps and so on and so forth.
Yeah, the first of all, the other exception
was not like that, basically.
It's a bunch of people like, so there was,
I was one judge, our fellow TI contributor,
Richard Bremner, was another drug judge.
Steve Cropley, who will be known to every single person
who listened to this, was another judge.
And various others, I was about to say luminaries,
but I don't really think I can say that about it,
but various other, you know, grizzled old hacks, mainly,
wandered around in the clump, go, oh, I like that.
And that was pretty much it.
And it was just, oh, gosh, my goodness.
It was, you know, there was a moment
when it was half past four in the morning
and I was just climbing into the car
to drive 200 miles to Lincolnshire
and I thought to myself, do I really want to be doing this?
Yeah.
And I got there, I thought, yeah,
I really do want to be doing this.
And the day just disappeared.
I just wandered around.
We had 40-odd cars to judge.
And the only guidance which we imposed on ourselves entirely
because we thought we ought to have some
as to what qualified a car to be possibly eligible for
an award at the end of the day
was condition originality and the story behind it.
Because these stories are,
these cars are so much the stories about
how they got to their current owner
because so many of them exist
because of a completely, objectively,
indefensible decision to save it from the scrapper.
You know, there was one car that was heading off that way
and somebody bought it for 400 quid
and then spent 6,000 pounds on it
despite the fact that it'll only ever be worth 1,000 pounds.
And these sort of totally irrational decisions
made just out of passion and love
and that sort of thing is just really, really great.
And they had in the entire festival
there were well over 1,000 old nails there.
Very charming.
I think the eligible criteria is between 1970 and 2000.
So let me just clarify.
The point is that these are very normal everyday cars,
probably cars that you really don't see on the road these days.
But that's the point.
But they should be in good condition, right?
They're not just old heaps that...
Well, I mean, that's the balance.
And we had discussions about this.
So my view, which I think was generally the acceptable view
of the judges was that cars should be neither prom queens
nor neglected.
They needed to be in what I would just call
nice, usable condition.
And if a car...
There was one bloke who came up to us with a car
and I can't remember what it was now,
but it was absolutely beautiful
and he proudly told us it had done 40 miles
in the last 30 years
and he only ever trailed it to car shows.
And we'll just thought, well, that's you out
because it's not what it's about.
So it's just about the right sort of cars
with the right kind of stories.
Base spec cars got sort of plenty of extra
kudos from us.
And the car that won it was as base spec as you could ever get.
Like in one year we gave it to a Morris Marina estate
which came with a massive rubber bung
in the bootlet in the tailgate at the back
for where you would have had the wash wipe
if you'd been rich enough to be able to afford one.
And we just love that sort of stuff.
And it's just a really, really happy event.
There is one slightly, I would say serious point,
interesting point, I think very encouraging point
which I was particularly struck by this year
in a way that I hadn't been...
I don't think I've judged it for about three or four years
and I haven't been struck by it in the way
that I had been in previous years.
And I think something is happening.
What I noticed was then certainly in the concord,
the number of young, really young, I mean almost kids,
people, you know, late teens, early 20s
who were turning up with these cars as their prides enjoy.
And if you talk to them, what they say is that
they have no interest in the kind of, you know, affordable cars
that they can afford to date, they can't ensure them.
Actually the cars that they want if they are any at all
are completely unaffordable and out of sight.
Is they're reverting to the cars that they grew up in.
And what they are finding is if they can find the right cars
are cars which are very cheap to buy,
actually really cheap to run.
And if, you know, if you do get more maintenance bills,
it's nothing compared to the depreciation
you get on something that was newer.
And they're just much more fun.
They're much more characterful.
They're obviously going to be much lighter.
And they love this stuff.
And it seems to me that the youngsters of today
are twigging that that actually,
if you want to enjoy motoring on a budget when you're young,
that's the way to do it.
It sounds great.
It is.
I mean, come next year.
It will be, I mean, you just kind of wander around.
And, you know, and the other thing.
So the car that won it,
I'm going to read the story on the app on the website
and I'll tell you all about it.
It's the only car of its kind,
road legal in the UK now.
They've all gone.
Literally, if you go on to how many left,
and he's actually got a photograph of it in the,
in the, which he pasted into the,
one of the side windows, there's one left.
And it's there.
You know, these are cars which are now much rarer
than 250 GTOs.
All the stuff.
And they used to be everywhere.
You'd never, ever crossed the street to look at one of them.
You'd see them by the thousands, the tens of thousands.
And now there's one.
That's great.
And you go there and you see cars
and you think to yourself,
I can't even begin to remember how many decades it's been
since I last saw one of those.
But because we all,
even though we weren't aware of it,
even though we would,
we weren't focused on it at the time.
These cars were,
I mean, certainly to people of my sort of age
and you know,
and people maybe yours too.
These were the wallpaper of our youth.
This is all the stuff that we were just silently,
quietly,
unobtrusively,
unawareedly,
soaking up when we were young.
And then you kind of forget about it.
But when you see it again, you get,
Oh yeah.
I remember that.
And it's just charming.
Yeah.
That's great.
It's brilliant.
And this is so festival of the unexceptional.
It's the event organized by Haggerty.
The current short specialist.
It does sound interesting.
So I'm also quite curious to know
how you got there and back.
Well, actually, that was,
honestly, that was just the biggest bonus.
You can think I turned up in something really fast.
And I went,
I have a new long-term rain draber.
Yeah.
Which you are writing about.
Which I am writing about.
In fact, the first report is on the website and app now,
which was kind of like the sort of,
it's just turned up.
What do I expect of this car?
Well, I'm beginning to learn a bit now about what it's like.
So it is a three-litre petrol plug-in hybrid.
I think it's meant to do 70, 75 miles on an electric car.
It won't.
Usually when I plug it up,
the range says somewhere between 56 and 60.
But it's still got a chunky EV range.
It's still good, isn't it?
Yeah.
So this is a full-spec range rover.
I had no choice over,
I did have choice over what engine it had.
And I would love to have had a V8,
but as you know, these things are quite pricey
and I didn't want to bankrupt TI with the fuel bills
or indeed myself.
So I went for the plug-in hybrid,
having had such a good experience with the 530EBMW,
which I had before plug-in hybrid.
But it's in full autobiography specification.
Yeah, it's quite fancy.
I saw it the other day.
Yeah.
So it's got all the toys on it.
I mean, and it's, to me, it is remarkable
how few of those things I would actually even want
to have been on that car.
It's got an enormous sunroof.
I hate sunroofs.
Yeah.
I just hate sunroofs.
They're just, you know,
I like to be cocooned in a dark car.
Yeah.
Although it does have a cover, so that's fine.
But, and it's got, you know, rear entertainment screens
and massive seats, which do all sorts of, you know,
hot stone massage functions and that sort of thing.
So I, you know, if it were my money,
particularly as this car with its extras,
I think cost 147,000 pounds.
And if that sounds like a lot,
if you go for an SUV and get busy on the configurator,
you can spend 200 grand on the range.
Yeah.
And I just wouldn't.
I'd just get a nice mid-spec car.
But the car itself is,
I mean, I won't dwell on it now because I want to write about it.
There are a few things about it that annoy me.
But actually, if you're a bit knackered
because you've driven 200 miles
and then spent all day on your feet judging old sheds
and you've got another 200 miles
before you can get home to your bed.
I mean, just seeing that in the car park,
it was just like, yeah, happy days.
Yeah.
It is so quiet.
It is so comfortable.
You can see why it's giving the luxury brands
a real hard time at the moment.
And the miles, they just kind of like disappear.
It's got an incredible,
one thing you do get with the autobiography
is the sort of top-of-the-range meridian sound system.
So if you ever feel the island's getting a little bit heavy,
yeah, bang on some title and just, you know,
that'll wake you up.
And there is, I've always been a bit sort of sniffy
about people saying, oh, these cars,
you know, people buy them
because they got amazing, elevated driving positions.
You know, I'm on Blago, drives around the place,
and I can't remember.
I've never really seen the appeal,
but actually in the Range Rover,
there is something about the view that you get
and the extent of that,
just literally how much you can see
and how much you can see over.
You just get a greater sense of being in control
because you can see that much more of your environment.
The driving position is superb.
And actually, even when you've completely,
one of the surprises with it is
even when you've completely depleted the battery,
so there's no range left in the battery.
And so you're just going along
with a 3.0-litre petrol engine in a 2.7-ton car.
Well, then that's no more than a Discovery 4,
not a 5.
Really?
Yeah, so Discovery 4,
whenever that came out in the mid-2000s,
that was a 2.7-ton car too.
But it's still, it's an awful lot of car.
It's still doing early 30s to the gallon.
Yeah, and actually that's fine, isn't it?
When I first got into this business,
my boss, this is in the late 80s,
Howard Lees, had a diesel Mitsubishi showgun,
2.8-litre diesel Mitsubishi showgun.
And I persuaded him, much against his better thought,
to let me take this car skiing.
And so I aged whatever I was, 22, 23,
I jumped in it and I drove it to the Alps.
And so this was diesel, a showgun,
and it did 82 miles an hour flat out
and 28 to the gallon.
And now here's a Range Rover
that'll do 150, goodness knows how many miles an hour.
It probably weighs a ton more.
And it's using less fuel despite being powered by petrol,
not diesel, and with no hybrid assistance.
With a hybrid on it, you'll do whatever you want it to do.
So it's, anyway, so I do have some minor legal issues with it.
It's been completely reliable so far,
but it's only done 5,000 miles,
so you know, you kind of hope that it would.
But yeah, I'm loving it.
I'm just loving the waff stability.
Yeah, I'm going to nick it off of you at some point,
because I'm really keen to have a go,
maybe do a family weekend away in it.
Because I just, I do love the idea of something big
and spacious and quiet and comfy.
Oh, it does all that.
It's just great.
The space is actually, it's not that spacious.
I had a look the other day.
It's partly because of those rear seats that recline.
Yeah, it's got the sliding reclining rear seats,
and I, you know, I'm six foot three
and I like to sit quite a long way back anyway.
But yeah, if you want an autobiography
and you want sprawling space for four on board,
you'll need to get the long wheelbase one, which this isn't.
Yeah, you will.
Yeah, you really will.
And then it's a big car.
And then it's a big car.
Yeah, but yeah, it's lovely.
So two things there that Andrew's mentioned
that he's writing about.
So the Hagerty Festival of the Unexceptional
and his Range Rover Long Terma.
Now, this is the weekly reminder.
You can become a paying subscriber to the intercooler.
And if you use coupon code POD20 at checkout,
you'll get 20% off the first year.
There'll be a link in the description
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Avoiding your unfinished home projects
because you're not sure where to start,
thumbtack knows home so you don't have to.
Don't know the difference between matte paint finish
and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is.
With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro.
You just have to hire one.
You can hire top rated pros,
see price estimates and read reviews all on the app.
Download today.
I want to talk about a very different sort of car
that I have been in for a week.
It's the Porsche 911 Carrera S, right?
So the entire 911 range more or less
has been updated, hasn't it?
So we're now into 992.2.
So this is not a hybrid?
No, it's not.
So it's still the, excuse me,
the original three liter twin turbo.
And it kind of, price-wise,
is it sort of like on a par with a T
or is it a bit more expensive than a T?
I think it's a bit more expensive than a T.
But the point being is that a T is manual only
and the S is PDK only.
It is.
And it's a very, very interesting car to spend time in.
You know, it used to be that the 911 Carrera S
was the sort of heartland 911,
the poor model in the lineup.
The sort of definitive 911, I suppose.
Now I think it's become quite a different sort of car.
Even just to sit in it,
and this is partly because of the spec of this car
that I've spent some time in, the way it's been specified.
Did you mention it's got wood in it?
It's got wood, it's got wood inserts on the dash
and the transmission tunnel.
It's got all this leather everywhere
and nice bits of bright work as well.
So it's a really, really well-appointed cabin,
which is fine.
But it used to be, I think about the sort of
996 or 997 owner who's had a Carrera S for years.
I think about them stepping out of their car and into this.
They'd be so surprised at what kind of car it's become.
Certainly just sit in, right?
Because the interior has become quite ornate,
quite intricate.
It's got, in this car, certainly,
it's got those wood inserts, all that leather.
It doesn't really feel like a sort of
paired-back sports car at all.
Is it sort of more generic Porsche
and less specifically 911?
It does feel that way, yeah.
Do you sometimes feel that you could be sitting in a Panamera?
Yeah.
To the point where, just to operate that car,
just to drive it in normal use,
low and moderate speeds,
there's so little about it that is sort of suggestive
of a true blue-blooded sports car.
Yeah.
The seating position, the view out,
the fact that there's no manual gearbox,
it all just makes it feel like a car.
It doesn't feel like a 911.
Can I put on my devil's advocate gown here?
No, please do.
Is there an argument which says,
because, I mean, I have noted this sort of thing,
probably not to the extent that you've now noted it,
but I've noted it in other 911s in the past,
this idea of a 911
for someone who doesn't really want a 911.
That's what it is.
My experience of those cars is that,
actually, if you use them,
because so much of what we do in cars
isn't driving on great roads,
then actually, the fact that they do isolate you
from all the goings on around you
might not be a bad thing,
because the cars are quite quiet,
they tend to ride quite well.
And the fact that that makes it less of a 911
in those sorts of situations,
do you actually want a 911
if you're stuck in heavy traffic
at the M4, M5 junction?
Do you actually just want a car
which is just going to be quite an unobtrusive
and you can just sit there and listen to the radio
and just wait for the event to pass?
So long as, when you do find yourself
in the right sort of environment,
then magically, as if from nowhere,
it's a 911 again, and does it do that?
That's more or less the conclusion I've come to.
And yeah, and when you do stick it into sport mode
and chuck it down a good road,
it's fast, the engine's great,
it handles really well,
steers well, you know, massive body control,
all the rest of it.
Would you set an alarm to go and drive over a good road?
No.
No, I wouldn't.
And so I think that's ultimately,
that's probably the point that I'm making here.
For me, the Carrera S has become
something other than a pure thoroughbred sports car.
It's become what you're describing,
the sort of the more do-it-all sports car
for people who really most of the time
just want the A car,
rather than something quite focused and purposeful.
Now, I haven't driven it,
but the obvious compare and contrast for you is
I ran for six months,
okay, it was 992 Gen 1,
but they're very little different.
I used to call it the poverty spec 911
because at the time it was the only 911 you could buy.
And you wound people up by doing it.
For a five figure sum,
you can't buy a 911 for a five figure sum anymore,
I don't think.
But anyway, you borrowed that car
and you went off and you did a video
about what is it about 911s.
So you spent a bit of time in that car.
Would you make the same observations about that car
or is there something about maybe the Gen 2
or what they've done with that S model specifically
which has turned it into a sort of less 911 experience?
I think the latter,
I think there is something about this car
that has taken it slightly further away
from where a 911 Carrera S used to be.
And actually the thing about your car,
it certainly had a broad spread of talents.
It wasn't a sort of very narrow minded focused car at all.
That's probably what I like most about it.
Yeah, but I think it still had a bit more about it,
just the way you just sit in,
peer out of to operate in normal use.
I think it still felt a bit more 911-y.
Because it had no options on it at all.
I think it had some electric seat adjustment
and preparation for some roof rails.
So the interior was absolutely bog standard.
But I never felt remotely shortchanged by that.
So what I've decided, what I've concluded is that
it just depends on what you're looking for.
And if ever there's a sports car
that appeals to a broad audience,
the 911 is it.
And so on reflection perhaps Porsche is right
to offer at least one model in the range.
Particularly because presumably for very similar money
you can go and get a T instead.
I'm having the T tomorrow.
And so I'm really interested to do a back to back
and compare and contrast.
I suspect what I'm going to find is that
if you are expecting your 911 to feel special
and to put you in a frame of mind
and to have this sense of it being
a thoroughbred sports car,
you probably do need the Carrera T.
That's what I'm expecting to find.
I adored the T.
Particularly now it's got that six speed manual.
I also quite like the fact that you can't get a PDK.
I like the fact that that actually
speaks to the very point that you make.
This suggests to me this is Porsche
because they said no you can't get a PDK with this car
in the same way you can't get a manual than S.
That's Porsche really trying to differentiate
the proposition, isn't it?
I think that's what's happening.
Porsche is now...
And they can't be blamed for that
because they offer the alternative.
That's the point, isn't it?
It's not like, oh the S has gone a bit bland
and the RIP 911.
It's gone that way
because there is now another 911
for people who want a 911
because they want a 911
not just because they like the image
of being seen in the 911.
That's it.
I think more now than ever
there is clear separation between these models
the less overlap between them
and you just have to be aware of what you're buying into.
You need to read the reviews
you need to test drive them if you can
because there will be a small constituent
of people who will expect
the Carrera S to be the definitive 911
the one that's going to give them that balance.
But it's not anymore.
I don't think it is.
All I can really conclude is this
it's not the one that I would want.
No.
So if there is a sort of 911 template
it's probably the base car now, isn't it?
Yeah.
And also just talking about that differentiation
and we'll stop going on about 911s
because we've probably said quite a lot of time
talking about them on this podcast anyway.
But are you going to drive a GTS as well?
Well, we did that a couple of months ago, didn't we?
I'm quite familiar with the GTS.
But the point is that that compared to previous GTS
is even more differentiated
because it's got the hybrid.
It's got its own powertrain now.
Exactly.
So that's clearly the way that they're going with the 911
and I think it's quite hard to fault as a strategy.
I think it is.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I was just very, very interested to observe that
in that car.
But not the one you would choose?
No.
No.
I'll report back on Carrera T very, very soon.
I'm so excited to drive that car.
Can we do a little bit of motorsport, please?
What Belgian Grand Prix type motorsport?
Yeah, let's not linger on it.
No.
I don't think there's a lot to linger on, is there?
There isn't.
I think all I really wanted to say was
I think it's a shame that FIA didn't get the race started
sooner.
They waited an hour and a half for the...
Essentially for the rain to clear and the track
to almost dry.
We got a handful of laps on inters in the end,
didn't we?
Yeah, so I was really lucky.
I was so knackered after the Festival of the Unception
and I sort of got home and I'd gone out for a run
in the morning and then played some tennis and I just
basically exhausted myself.
And I sat down to watch the Grand Prix.
And I saw all the rain and I heard them go
and I thought I might just sort of rest the eyelids
for a minute.
And I woke up an hour and a half later,
literally as they are on the...
That spot on.
Yeah, so it was great.
I mean, it's always very difficult, isn't it?
But I think, you know, a few points.
I mean, Martin Bundle made a good point that
if you want to dry the track, you don't park cars
in the pit lane.
There's nothing better at drying tracks than
Formula One cars with their massive tyres.
And Max was saying, it's an overreaction, wasn't it?
And they've got those Monson tyres they never, ever use.
They just don't use them.
I think the issue is visibility, isn't it?
You think it's more visibility than water on track?
It must be because those extreme wets,
they will give your cut through standing water.
They'll give the drivers decent grit.
Yeah.
But they just chuck up so much water.
Yeah.
And you wouldn't want to be the 12th, 13th, 14th car
on a train, would you?
No.
I mean, is there an argument?
I mean, I know plenty of sort of more old-school
motor racing journalists who would just say let them race.
Yeah.
You know, that would never have stopped them in the past.
And, you know, big fat tires have been a factor
of Formula One for well over 50 years.
And, you know, that's the contract.
You know, if you want to be a Formula One driver,
you know, you want to be out there playing
with the big boys.
That's what you do.
They're also not forcing you to go out there.
I know that's a tough thing to say.
But what I will say is, A, it's easy for us to sit here
saying send them out.
You know, we're not responsible for anyone's safety.
But B, a load of the drivers were saying,
let's get on with it.
Let's get on with it.
And it should come down to them.
And if they want to be out there.
It should come down to them.
Yeah.
They're the ones taking the risk.
They should be a button on their steering wheels.
And it's anonymous.
And the FIA says, let us know what you want to do now.
And everyone presses the button.
And if more than half say let's race, they go racing.
Yeah.
And if you don't want to race, then park up.
OK, that well with the sponsors, wouldn't it?
Well, yeah, there is that.
So we should just say Oscar Piastri won, didn't he?
Ahead of Norris, ahead of Leclerc, ahead of Verstappen.
And actually we saw twice because there's a sprint race.
The pole sitter just loses the lead down the camel straight
into Lecombe.
Yeah.
And then the race is done, isn't it?
Seemed to be.
Yeah.
Which is a bit worrying if on a circuit like Spa,
in variable weather you can't have a really cracking run.
But those McLarens are just.
And it's not just their raw pace.
It's their ability to manage their tires, isn't it?
It's just black magic, isn't it?
So Piastri now leads Norris by 16 points.
So it's still bloody close, just over halfway through.
Yeah.
I mean, that's not even.
Yeah.
So if in the next race he DNF'd and land a,
well, won it then it would just change around completely.
Easy leading by nine points.
Yeah.
Let's just hope we'd continue to have a proper ding dong.
Yeah.
Because it's the only real contest out there at the moment now,
isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's all there is really to play for.
Is Piastri actually the better driver?
Oh, God.
We've been down this road.
Because just that, you know, he did make that mistake
under the safety car at Silverstone that got him
the 10 second penalty.
But otherwise he was going to win that race.
I don't think that's a mistake.
A mistake is something you don't intend to do.
Okay.
I absolutely intend to do it.
But he shouldn't have done it.
He shouldn't have done it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But he absolutely.
He meant to do it.
Yeah.
You don't shed 100 miles by accident.
No.
It was a mistake of judgment or something.
Yeah.
Well, an error.
Well, yeah, whatever.
Do I think he's the better driver?
Gosh.
I don't think he is the more talented driver.
But is he more likely to win the world championship?
Yes.
He's got the mentality, hasn't he?
I think that's what it comes down to.
That's what it comes down to.
He is just, I mean, you know, I'm such a massive lander,
because I just want to the bloke and I just,
and as I think people listen to the podcast may know,
I said as much, by the way, they conduct themselves
out of the cars in it.
And I think that he is a thoroughly deserving world champion
even though he may not get it this year,
may never get it.
Whereas Piastri is, he's Alan Prost, isn't he?
I think so.
He's a professor in the making.
He's a guy who just goes around knocking it out really,
really quick, keeps his nose clean.
And yeah, he's just always there, isn't he?
I think Norris probably has more peak potential,
a greater, you know, higher potential ceiling.
But he doesn't tap into it as often as Piastri taps into
whatever his potential is.
And therefore Oscar is the more complete driver
at the moment.
I mean, as Crofty was saying, and he did say it
relentlessly over and over and over again on commentary
yesterday, and I did get a bit cheered off with the whole
thing.
But the point he was making is absolutely correct.
That Haddon at Lando not made any mistakes.
Well, first of all, if he'd done a better start
at the beginning of the Grand Prix.
But thereafter, those times when he ran wide at Pouin,
he locked up, I think, at La Source.
And if he hadn't done that, he would have been
within DRS range easily before the end of the race.
And if you're in DRS range on the Camel,
you're probably going past.
As long as you're close enough, yeah.
As long as you're close enough.
And now where Rouge is in the corner, you know,
the corner between before the Camel is essentially
La Source, which is a very slow hairpin.
So you can follow through La Source and then
you just blitz it all the way down the straight.
And so, if he hadn't made the mistakes,
I think Norris would probably have won.
It's really odd to hear his engineer come on the
door and say things like, you need to focus on your breaking.
You know, don't lock up.
You don't hear other engineers come on to the drivers.
You only hear what the broadcasters want to hear.
That's true.
And they are playing to a narrative which they think
makes the coverage more interesting.
But I also don't get the impression that there's
another engineer on the other side of the pit garage
in Oscars here saying, you know,
break a bit more there, turn in a bit earlier there,
whatever.
And you never get Lando.
You hear Charlotte.
Even Charlotte is now getting cheesed off with the Ferrari
team just coming in his ear,
telling him how far away Max is.
But you just don't hear Piastri getting...
You really don't.
Educated in that way.
No, you really don't.
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Yeah, so Belgian Grand Prix.
So another thing I wanted to discuss,
and this might well come across as very sort of
little Britain, and I do apologize if that's the case.
But it sounds like we are sort of in agreement
that it's not going to happen anyway,
but there is a chance that Brits could win
all of the major FIA championships this year.
If we count the FIA championships to be F1, WEC,
Formula E, and WRC.
So Norris might well win the Formula One championship.
Yeah.
Elphin Irvins might well win the World Rally Championship.
Yeah.
James Collado, and if not Collado, maybe Phil Hanson
might well win the World Endurance Championship.
And Ollie Rowland has already won the Formula E championship.
Hurrah for the Brits.
Aren't we great?
Yes.
Are we feeling particularly British,
and we must make the distinction between being British
and being English, because this is the day after the lionesses.
Yes.
Won the Euros,
despite being clearly the inferior team
for the entire duration of the match,
but getting there just through tenacity
and guts and determination and never, ever, ever giving in.
So I guess we're feeling quite sort of patriotic.
Well, there is that,
but I also just don't think it's going to happen anyway.
No, but okay.
But it doesn't really need to happen for you to make the point
that actually in all the sort of top levels
of motorsport that there are,
there are Brits right performing at the highest levels
in the highest formulae that there are.
So it is great.
I mean, I think, so the Formula E's in the bag, WEC,
I think probably a Brit will win that.
Yeah.
So Evans in the WRC, Norris in F1,
we've spoken about Norris.
Elvin Evans.
He had a fantastic start to the season.
We're eight rounds in.
In the first four rounds,
he had four podiums and two wins.
Fantastic start.
In the following four,
he's not been on the podium once.
Oh.
What's happened?
Do you know, I'm actually not close enough
to these days to know.
No, I know.
But he's now one point behind Tanak.
He's second in the championship.
There are six rounds to go.
Slightly more concerning for Evans is that
he's only 20 points ahead of Sebastian Ogier,
who's skipped three rounds already.
He's not doing the full season.
And is Ogier going to do the rest of the season now?
I don't think he is.
But if I was Ogier,
I'd be looking at going,
right, get me in the car for every remaining round
and I'll see if I can win another championship here.
Because he's absolutely in it.
So Evans, I mean, if he can refind his form,
maybe it's on.
He can do it.
But off the podium in the last four,
that's not championship winning form, is it?
And I know that things are complicated
with road positions and all the rest of it.
But, you know, he's a point off the lead.
If he can get back to where he was
at the start of the season,
absolutely he could go and win the championship.
And he's been runner up several times.
So it would be fantastic to see.
And he'd be only our third WRC champion.
So I really hope it happens.
Yeah, so do I.
Stick with rallying just for a moment.
Last weekend, Oliver Solberg,
Young Solberg, Pettisolberg's son,
he won rally Estonia on what was a one off outing
for Toyota in a top spec rally one car, they call them.
He's been doing brilliantly in rally two
all season for Toyota.
So they gave him this one off outing
and he went and won it.
That's quite good.
Which is just spectacular.
Yeah.
He has done plenty of rallies in the WRC
in rally one cars or the top spec car,
but not since 2022.
So is this his first outright WRC win?
Yeah.
Yeah.
On a one off outing.
I mean, it's just fantastic.
That's talent, isn't it?
I remember being on the Monte Carlo rally
with Subaru, I think in 2008.
And Pettisolberg had his family there.
And his young son must have been
four or five years old or whatever.
Little kid, blonde curly hair just running around.
Oh, yeah.
This is him.
And now he's Oliver Solberg winning WRC rallies.
He's 23.
Wow.
It is quite something.
Now, listen, just to wrap up this week's podcast.
You have done something extremely special.
I have.
And this is another one of those things
where you're going to have to go and subscribe to the intercooler
using coupon code POD20 to get your 20% discount
if you want to read the full story.
It's up there.
The story's had an amazing response.
But you went off to Stuttgart to drive
a Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR.
Yeah.
You might need to explain exactly
what the significance of that car is.
Well, I think most people will know
the 300 SLR, they sold one of them.
They sold one of them.
They made 10 of which nine survived
because one was lost in the Le Mans disaster.
Two of the 10 were coupes.
The Ulin Hap Coupes.
The Ulin Hap Coupes, one of which was sold in 2022
for 135 million euros, beating the world record
for the most amount of money ever paid
for a car in an auction by 90 million euros.
At the same time, it became one of the top 10
expensive things of any kind ever sold.
So that's the kind of level we're at here.
And as I said, they made 10 of these things.
And nine of them were intended to race in 1955.
And not all of them did.
But one of them was intended to race in 1956.
And they made, so the last one, chassis 10,
was a very advanced super lightweight car
that was going to be their car for 1956.
Now, for various reasons, some say the Le Mans disaster,
some say not.
Mercedes-Benz decided not to race in 1956.
So this one car, this unicorn, was retired
and it was made a museum piece.
And that was that.
And very, very occasionally, Mercedes has wheeled it out
at things like the rerunning of the Milimilia
and it did it this year.
And it appears on the starting ramp at Brescia
and it probably is on a podium somewhere in Rome
and it gets carted around on a truck and that sort of thing.
But for reasons I'm still trying to get my head around,
I got a call, in fact, I got an email
saying, do you want to come and drive it?
Wow.
And the point is, no journalist has ever driven this car before.
And I don't know what to say about it.
I feel so lucky and privileged and proud
that for some reason, I mean, I have been talking to them
about the 70th anniversary of the Milimilia win
and that car is now retired.
The famous one, the most famous one, 722,
which was chassis four.
The one that Stirling Moss won.
Stirling Moss won the Milimilia in a record time
that was never there after beaten.
That car is in the museum.
You can go and see it.
But it last ran as a sort of tribute to Stirling
after he had died and it turned up to his house
in Shepherd Street and was received by his late wife, Susie.
And they said at the time that when they switched
the engine off then, that was going to be it.
And they haven't said that there are no circumstances
in which we will ever run this car again.
But what they have said is that they have no plans
to run that car again.
So that car is parked.
And so the 56 car, yeah, to be allowed to go and drive that
was, I mean, I couldn't, it's me, I've been so lucky
in my career.
But yeah, even the Ullunhout, there are two of those.
There's only one of these.
There's only 156.
And the fact that no journalist has ever been allowed
to drive it.
And, you know, you go there and the bizarre thing is
you would think wouldn't, I don't even want to think
about what it's worth.
But you would think that you would go there
and they would say, right, this is the deal, chum.
Yeah.
You don't do more than 40 miles in there.
You don't do more than 3,000 revs.
You can drive it for 30 seconds and then you park it
and then you can tell your readers that you drove
this car and whooped it up and we all know
but we just won't say you didn't drive it very far
and you didn't drive it very fast.
Would I have signed that box?
Would I have ticked it?
Probably.
Anyway, that's not what happened.
I turned up there.
I'd been in a holiday in Gozo the week before
and it is absolutely true that I signed more paperwork
to hire a Persian 108 than to drive a 300 SLR.
There was a track.
There was the SLR and they said,
do you know how this thing works?
And I said, I thought I probably did.
And they said, well, this is how it starts.
That's the layout of the gears.
Off you go.
That's it.
Blimey.
What's it worth?
Well, who knows?
It's one of one.
But the Ulinhout sold for 135 million euros.
That didn't race.
This hasn't raced.
But the Ulinhout, there is another Ulinhout
and it is one of a series of 55 specification 300 SLRs.
There's only one 56 specification 300 SLR.
It is 62 kilos lighter than Sterling's car.
So it had...
Wow.
They did all sorts of things to it.
I'm going to read about in the story which is on the app
and on the website now.
So I won't dwell on it now.
But they did all sorts of things to make it lighter
because they couldn't really get much more power out of the engine.
So I mean, who knows?
It's worth what an individual will pay for it
on the day that it becomes available for sale,
which it clearly never will.
So I guess it's a nine figure car.
Yeah.
It's got to be, hasn't it?
Yeah, it has.
But if you think about that, you can't drive it.
If you think about the value,
more than that, if you think about the originality,
because it was never raced,
it is as it was when they built it in December 1955.
It's the same car.
It's not like any other racing car
because all racing cars in the course of being raced,
they get pulled apart every every races
and engines get swapped over and they get crashed.
And they tend to become triggers broom type things.
This isn't that.
Imagine if I'd stuck it in a wall
and there was no shortage of opportunities
to do it around that track
because you're in the middle of Stuttgart, essentially.
You know, you could make the panels again,
but you can't put the history back.
You can't put the originality back.
And the only way you can drive a car like that
is to forget all about it.
Because if you thought about it,
if you thought about the risk to reward
of what you were doing,
you wouldn't even get in it.
I probably wouldn't.
Of course you would.
Yes, you're in Stuttgart.
You've got the private test track.
You're alone and you've got an SLR.
Believe me, Dan, you get it.
Yeah, you would.
No, you're right.
So having driven it then,
what's the sort with, you know,
a few weeks distance?
What's the lasting impression
of what as a machine to drive?
Well, I mean, the lasting impression
is just how fortunate and privileged
I was to be allowed to do it.
And I don't want to sort of,
because being brutally commercial,
if you all went and subscribed to the intercooler
to read the story,
that would be very helpful to us
and a great way to support this project.
But I guess it's how...
I mean, another example
of just how ridiculously lucky it is,
I have actually driven most of its rivals.
I've driven a D-type.
I've driven a 750 Monza.
I've driven an Aston DB3S,
which were all the cars,
which were kind of like knocking about,
trying to keep up and failing to keep up with it.
In 1955, the SLR won every single race it entered,
apart from Le Mans,
which was leading by miles
when the team withdrew it after the accident.
So, no one else could get anywhere near it.
And when you drive it,
the sense is of disbelief
that this thing is 70 years old
in all regards other than the brakes,
which just...
Yeah, I mean,
they're big drum brakes,
but Aston Martin had discs by then,
Jaguar had discs by then,
and the difference is night and day.
So, that's interesting.
So, I mean, Mercedes had the know-how
and the budget.
So, you think they just didn't believe discs were proven?
No, I think.
And I only know this because one of the guys
who was with the car said to me,
because I kind of had a conversation with them,
and he said,
well, of course, you didn't let us have your discs.
Was it because they were done lots?
They were done lots.
They were developed in England.
And they're very happy
to supply the Aston Martin and Jaguar.
And, you know,
10 years after the cessation of hostilities,
perhaps a little less keen
to supply them to Stuttgart.
And that was just one bloke's view.
I don't know if that was any bearing on the truth at all,
but it kind of has the ring of truth to it.
Yeah, it does.
It could well be true.
So, the 300 SLR was essentially the Formula One car.
It was.
With body work.
And is it that one, or is that a different year?
No, that is it.
So, just by chance,
there's a book on the desk in front of me
called Formula One, the Knowledge.
And it's got a modern Mercedes
Formula One car on there.
And what's the W number?
W196.
I knew it was that.
It was brave enough to say it.
You need to be watching this on YouTube
to understand what we're doing here.
Dan is holding up a book,
which has a, well, actually,
so that's a W number.
So, its name is public names W196.
Its code name is W196R.
Okay.
And the SLRs, public name, 300 SLR,
code name W196S.
Oh, okay.
So, they're that closely related.
That closely related.
And if you, when you sit in one,
what happens when you get into the driver's seat is,
the first thing that happens is
your left leg goes all the way to the left,
and your right leg goes all the way to the right,
because there's a socking great transmission type of
running between your feet,
just as there would be if it were a single seater.
And really, okay, the bodywork is different.
The suspension is basically the same.
The brakes are basically the same.
The gearbox is basically the same.
The engine is basically the same,
except that Formula One had a 2.5-litre formula.
So, it could only run at 2.5 litres,
whereas in the World Sports Car Championship,
as it was then,
you could run on an engine as big as you like,
but they couldn't get that engine beyond 3 litres,
so it's a 3-litre.
That is amazing.
So, to go and tackle the sports car scene in the 1950s,
Mercedes took its Grand Prix car,
put some bodywork around it to cover the wheels,
made the engine a bit bigger,
and now you go.
And it was unstoppable in Formula One,
and it was unstoppable in sports car racing.
Totally dominant.
That's great.
Think of the time of relief everybody else
must have breathed and when they withdrew.
And so, 56, we're not going to do Formula One,
and we're not going to do sports cars.
Someone else can win.
That's the goodness,
because no one else was anywhere near them.
And when you drive it, you can see why.
Well, I mean, it's a hell of a privilege
to get to go and drive that car.
It is.
But it also says something about your standing
in the industry and the reputation that you have.
Wow.
That they invited you to go and do it.
And I'm just very proud that we get to run
that story on these cars.
Well, I'm very proud that we get to run it
on the intercooler.
I mean, they know all about the intercooler,
and clearly, you know, these decisions are made.
I mean, I guess the most important decision is,
do we actually think the bloke is capable
of doing this thing without damaging it?
But also, you know, they do need to think
about what's going to happen,
because, you know, this is not a cheap exercise.
You know, they had to chuck everything else
off their own test track to do it.
And, you know, the car every time it moves,
I'm sure it needs a huge amount of prep
both before and after,
because it's not a normal car.
But I just felt incredibly lucky,
blessed, fortunate, privileged, proud,
whatever to have been able to do it.
And just to sort of give it back and park it.
And that's one of the big, you know,
you think that once you do it,
you just want to drive it all day,
but actually, you get to that point
where you've got enough out of the driving experience
that you know you're not going to learn
any more about the car.
And then, actually, what you want to do is park it.
Yeah, you do, yeah.
Because you want to quit while you're ahead.
So I didn't want to carry on driving it
and driving it and driving it.
I just wanted to give it back and go,
thank you guys, that was unbelievable.
So I did.
What a cool thing to get to do.
And the story is fantastic.
And the photography, by the way,
by our friend, Algen Kordel, is just mega.
But honestly, if you can't write a decent story
and take a decent snap of a car like that,
you should probably be looking at another way of anything.
Yeah, you're right.
Okay, well, we'll wrap that one up there.
But listen, everyone, thank you for listening.
Thank you for watching.
We appreciate it.
Please just follow the show.
If you're watching on YouTube,
subscribe to this channel.
If you're just listening to this as a podcast,
follow the show.
And actually, a quick reminder that subscribers
to the intercooler can listen to this podcast
totally ad-free.
And you can do so via whichever podcast app you prefer.
So there'll be a link in the description.
Or just head to the-intercooler.com
and use coupon code POD20 to get your 20% discount.
And can I just say, I listen to this ad-free
because I can.
And it's only when you listen to these things ad-free
and you go right through it
and there's nothing at the beginning
and there's nothing in the middle,
it's just lovely not to have the flow broken.
Or to have to kind of like,
I tend to listen to podcasts when I'm out
running with a dog or whatever,
not having to sort of fish around
and you're running about to find your telephone
so you can fast forward through the ads or whatever.
It's just great to know that you're going to start listening
and it'll start when it starts
and it'll stop when it stops
and there'll be nothing in between.
Well said.
Thanks, everyone.
And we'll be back again next week.
See you then.
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About this episode
A vibrant discussion unfolds around the recent Pride and Power car show, the unique Festival of the Unexceptional, and the latest Porsche 911 Carrera S. Andrew shares his experiences judging at the Festival, highlighting the charm of everyday cars and the stories behind them. The episode also delves into the evolving nature of the 911, comparing its current iteration to past models, and explores the dynamics of the recent Belgian Grand Prix, including the rising talents of Oscar Piastri and Lando Norris. A special highlight is Andrew's incredible opportunity to drive the legendary Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR, a once-in-a-lifetime experience that adds depth to the conversation.
Original notes
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel discuss the latest version of the Porsche 911 Carrera S, which has grown into a different sort of car to previous versions. They also talk about the weekend's Hagerty Festival of the Unexceptional, a car concours like no other where Andrew was a judge. Other topics include the Belgian Grand Prix, the possibility that British drivers could win all of the top tier FIA World Championships this year, and the £100m+ Mercedes-Benz that Andrew has been driving.
Use coupon code pod20 at checkout to get 20% off an annual subscription to The Intercooler's online car magazine for the first year! Listen to this podcast ad-free, and enjoy a subscriber-only midweek podcast too. With a 30-day free trial, you can try it risk-free – https://www.the-intercooler.com/subscribe/
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The Intercooler
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel
0:00
55:28