The truth about today's Porsche 911 and Festival of the Unexceptional #273

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Welcome back to the Intercooler podcast,

everybody, episode 273 with Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel.

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Andrew, this one's a busy show.

Yeah, lots going on.

You've been having some fun this weekend.

There's some motorsport stuff that we want to talk about,

a couple of cars that we've been spending time in as well.

It's a busy show, so we better crack on, really.

Tell us about your weekend.

Oh, OK.

My weekend.

Well, my weekend actually started on Friday

when I went to the first ever Pride and Power car show.

Where was that?

That was at the British Motor Museum, Gaiden.

And as the name suggests, this is a car show

for the LGBTQ plus community and its supporters.

And it was the first one.

And they had no idea how many people would turn up.

But the offer was really good because all you had to do

was register your car.

And it could be any car.

I turned up in an Audi A6.

And just by doing that, that got you free entry to the museum,

which is usually a 17-quid ticket.

Oh, nice.

So you turned up.

And it was a really lovely event.

They didn't know how many people were going to turn up.

They thought it might be sort of, you know,

10 or 12 cars.

I think there were only 200 in the end.

And it's just one of those happy, nice events,

walking around everything from, you know,

there were Ferrari's and GT3 RS's and, you know,

lots of interesting stuff.

And then I got to wander around the British Motor Museum,

which I have not done in years and years and years.

I've never been.

So I've been to at least one event there.

Yeah.

I don't see the museum.

Well, we should go more.

Maybe we should do a podcast.

We should do something with those guys.

Yeah.

Because it's just full of really interesting stuff,

weird prototypes.

You know, the first example of this,

the last ever example of that,

you know, all the minis that won the Monte Carlo Rally

are all there.

And, oh, goodness me.

I'll forget almost everything that I saw.

But there's very little boring stuff in there.

And there's just an awful lot of stuff.

And so they've got the prototype Metro 6R4 rally car.

Oh, cool.

Which is really, really cool.

And it looks really, really dogged.

I mean, you just walk in there and you just sort of walk around.

It's not sort of like the, on the same sort of scale

as the Porsche and Mercedes museums,

but you don't have to go to Stuttgart to see it.

And it's really good.

And it is literally, I mean,

I'm talking literally three minutes off the M40 Junction 12.

So it couldn't be more central.

It couldn't be better located.

It's got JLR and Aston Martin next door to it.

And it's a really, really good, interesting facility.

So yeah, go take a look.

Excellent.

But that was Friday.

So on Saturday, yes, I rather got my dates.

I didn't get them mixed up.

I just didn't connect one event with another.

So I went all the way to Gaiden to do that.

And it was my wife's birthday.

And I promised to take her out for dinner.

So I then went all the way back to South Wales.

And we went out.

We had dinner.

And then very early on Sunday morning,

I drove to Lincolnshire.

It's a fair way, isn't it?

Well, if you live in South Wales,

yes, Lincolnshire is definitely a fair way.

Where I was judging the 10th Festival of the Unexceptional,

specifically the Concorde Laudanaire that it contains.

I'm sure that almost everybody who is listening to this

has heard of the Festival of the Unexceptional.

But if you haven't been,

it's quite difficult to explain what the magic is.

I've tried.

I've written a story which I think we're going to post

on the brilliant award-winning TI website and app on Wednesday.

If you're listening to this on Monday or on Tuesday,

and if you're listening to it on Wednesday,

it'll already be there.

And I do have a crack in that story

at just trying to explain what is so,

so wonderful about this event.

I mean, it's kind of like the antidote to a typical Concorde,

a sort of, you know, Salon, Preve, Pebble Beach,

which are wonderful events in their own rights.

Yeah, but they're ripe for sort of lampooning, aren't they?

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, and it's just, you know,

those are cars where, you know,

those are events where you get the most expensive,

the most sort of special, massively restored cars.

And everyone takes it very seriously.

Everybody takes it.

Oh, it's a reverential event.

And judges go round with clipboards and scorecards

and, you know, measuring, you know,

width of exhaust pipe and spark plug gaps and so on and so forth.

Yeah, the first of all, the other exception

was not like that, basically.

It's a bunch of people like, so there was,

I was one judge, our fellow TI contributor,

Richard Bremner, was another drug judge.

Steve Cropley, who will be known to every single person

who listened to this, was another judge.

And various others, I was about to say luminaries,

but I don't really think I can say that about it,

but various other, you know, grizzled old hacks, mainly,

wandered around in the clump, go, oh, I like that.

And that was pretty much it.

And it was just, oh, gosh, my goodness.

It was, you know, there was a moment

when it was half past four in the morning

and I was just climbing into the car

to drive 200 miles to Lincolnshire

and I thought to myself, do I really want to be doing this?

Yeah.

And I got there, I thought, yeah,

I really do want to be doing this.

And the day just disappeared.

I just wandered around.

We had 40-odd cars to judge.

And the only guidance which we imposed on ourselves entirely

because we thought we ought to have some

as to what qualified a car to be possibly eligible for

an award at the end of the day

was condition originality and the story behind it.

Because these stories are,

these cars are so much the stories about

how they got to their current owner

because so many of them exist

because of a completely, objectively,

indefensible decision to save it from the scrapper.

You know, there was one car that was heading off that way

and somebody bought it for 400 quid

and then spent 6,000 pounds on it

despite the fact that it'll only ever be worth 1,000 pounds.

And these sort of totally irrational decisions

made just out of passion and love

and that sort of thing is just really, really great.

And they had in the entire festival

there were well over 1,000 old nails there.

Very charming.

I think the eligible criteria is between 1970 and 2000.

So let me just clarify.

The point is that these are very normal everyday cars,

probably cars that you really don't see on the road these days.

But that's the point.

But they should be in good condition, right?

They're not just old heaps that...

Well, I mean, that's the balance.

And we had discussions about this.

So my view, which I think was generally the acceptable view

of the judges was that cars should be neither prom queens

nor neglected.

They needed to be in what I would just call

nice, usable condition.

And if a car...

There was one bloke who came up to us with a car

and I can't remember what it was now,

but it was absolutely beautiful

and he proudly told us it had done 40 miles

in the last 30 years

and he only ever trailed it to car shows.

And we'll just thought, well, that's you out

because it's not what it's about.

So it's just about the right sort of cars

with the right kind of stories.

Base spec cars got sort of plenty of extra

kudos from us.

And the car that won it was as base spec as you could ever get.

Like in one year we gave it to a Morris Marina estate

which came with a massive rubber bung

in the bootlet in the tailgate at the back

for where you would have had the wash wipe

if you'd been rich enough to be able to afford one.

And we just love that sort of stuff.

And it's just a really, really happy event.

There is one slightly, I would say serious point,

interesting point, I think very encouraging point

which I was particularly struck by this year

in a way that I hadn't been...

I don't think I've judged it for about three or four years

and I haven't been struck by it in the way

that I had been in previous years.

And I think something is happening.

What I noticed was then certainly in the concord,

the number of young, really young, I mean almost kids,

people, you know, late teens, early 20s

who were turning up with these cars as their prides enjoy.

And if you talk to them, what they say is that

they have no interest in the kind of, you know, affordable cars

that they can afford to date, they can't ensure them.

Actually the cars that they want if they are any at all

are completely unaffordable and out of sight.

Is they're reverting to the cars that they grew up in.

And what they are finding is if they can find the right cars

are cars which are very cheap to buy,

actually really cheap to run.

And if, you know, if you do get more maintenance bills,

it's nothing compared to the depreciation

you get on something that was newer.

And they're just much more fun.

They're much more characterful.

They're obviously going to be much lighter.

And they love this stuff.

And it seems to me that the youngsters of today

are twigging that that actually,

if you want to enjoy motoring on a budget when you're young,

that's the way to do it.

It sounds great.

It is.

I mean, come next year.

It will be, I mean, you just kind of wander around.

And, you know, and the other thing.

So the car that won it,

I'm going to read the story on the app on the website

and I'll tell you all about it.

It's the only car of its kind,

road legal in the UK now.

They've all gone.

Literally, if you go on to how many left,

and he's actually got a photograph of it in the,

in the, which he pasted into the,

one of the side windows, there's one left.

And it's there.

You know, these are cars which are now much rarer

than 250 GTOs.

All the stuff.

And they used to be everywhere.

You'd never, ever crossed the street to look at one of them.

You'd see them by the thousands, the tens of thousands.

And now there's one.

That's great.

And you go there and you see cars

and you think to yourself,

I can't even begin to remember how many decades it's been

since I last saw one of those.

But because we all,

even though we weren't aware of it,

even though we would,

we weren't focused on it at the time.

These cars were,

I mean, certainly to people of my sort of age

and you know,

and people maybe yours too.

These were the wallpaper of our youth.

This is all the stuff that we were just silently,

quietly,

unobtrusively,

unawareedly,

soaking up when we were young.

And then you kind of forget about it.

But when you see it again, you get,

Oh yeah.

I remember that.

And it's just charming.

Yeah.

That's great.

It's brilliant.

And this is so festival of the unexceptional.

It's the event organized by Haggerty.

The current short specialist.

It does sound interesting.

So I'm also quite curious to know

how you got there and back.

Well, actually, that was,

honestly, that was just the biggest bonus.

You can think I turned up in something really fast.

And I went,

I have a new long-term rain draber.

Yeah.

Which you are writing about.

Which I am writing about.

In fact, the first report is on the website and app now,

which was kind of like the sort of,

it's just turned up.

What do I expect of this car?

Well, I'm beginning to learn a bit now about what it's like.

So it is a three-litre petrol plug-in hybrid.

I think it's meant to do 70, 75 miles on an electric car.

It won't.

Usually when I plug it up,

the range says somewhere between 56 and 60.

But it's still got a chunky EV range.

It's still good, isn't it?

Yeah.

So this is a full-spec range rover.

I had no choice over,

I did have choice over what engine it had.

And I would love to have had a V8,

but as you know, these things are quite pricey

and I didn't want to bankrupt TI with the fuel bills

or indeed myself.

So I went for the plug-in hybrid,

having had such a good experience with the 530EBMW,

which I had before plug-in hybrid.

But it's in full autobiography specification.

Yeah, it's quite fancy.

I saw it the other day.

Yeah.

So it's got all the toys on it.

I mean, and it's, to me, it is remarkable

how few of those things I would actually even want

to have been on that car.

It's got an enormous sunroof.

I hate sunroofs.

Yeah.

I just hate sunroofs.

They're just, you know,

I like to be cocooned in a dark car.

Yeah.

Although it does have a cover, so that's fine.

But, and it's got, you know, rear entertainment screens

and massive seats, which do all sorts of, you know,

hot stone massage functions and that sort of thing.

So I, you know, if it were my money,

particularly as this car with its extras,

I think cost 147,000 pounds.

And if that sounds like a lot,

if you go for an SUV and get busy on the configurator,

you can spend 200 grand on the range.

Yeah.

And I just wouldn't.

I'd just get a nice mid-spec car.

But the car itself is,

I mean, I won't dwell on it now because I want to write about it.

There are a few things about it that annoy me.

But actually, if you're a bit knackered

because you've driven 200 miles

and then spent all day on your feet judging old sheds

and you've got another 200 miles

before you can get home to your bed.

I mean, just seeing that in the car park,

it was just like, yeah, happy days.

Yeah.

It is so quiet.

It is so comfortable.

You can see why it's giving the luxury brands

a real hard time at the moment.

And the miles, they just kind of like disappear.

It's got an incredible,

one thing you do get with the autobiography

is the sort of top-of-the-range meridian sound system.

So if you ever feel the island's getting a little bit heavy,

yeah, bang on some title and just, you know,

that'll wake you up.

And there is, I've always been a bit sort of sniffy

about people saying, oh, these cars,

you know, people buy them

because they got amazing, elevated driving positions.

You know, I'm on Blago, drives around the place,

and I can't remember.

I've never really seen the appeal,

but actually in the Range Rover,

there is something about the view that you get

and the extent of that,

just literally how much you can see

and how much you can see over.

You just get a greater sense of being in control

because you can see that much more of your environment.

The driving position is superb.

And actually, even when you've completely,

one of the surprises with it is

even when you've completely depleted the battery,

so there's no range left in the battery.

And so you're just going along

with a 3.0-litre petrol engine in a 2.7-ton car.

Well, then that's no more than a Discovery 4,

not a 5.

Really?

Yeah, so Discovery 4,

whenever that came out in the mid-2000s,

that was a 2.7-ton car too.

But it's still, it's an awful lot of car.

It's still doing early 30s to the gallon.

Yeah, and actually that's fine, isn't it?

When I first got into this business,

my boss, this is in the late 80s,

Howard Lees, had a diesel Mitsubishi showgun,

2.8-litre diesel Mitsubishi showgun.

And I persuaded him, much against his better thought,

to let me take this car skiing.

And so I aged whatever I was, 22, 23,

I jumped in it and I drove it to the Alps.

And so this was diesel, a showgun,

and it did 82 miles an hour flat out

and 28 to the gallon.

And now here's a Range Rover

that'll do 150, goodness knows how many miles an hour.

It probably weighs a ton more.

And it's using less fuel despite being powered by petrol,

not diesel, and with no hybrid assistance.

With a hybrid on it, you'll do whatever you want it to do.

So it's, anyway, so I do have some minor legal issues with it.

It's been completely reliable so far,

but it's only done 5,000 miles,

so you know, you kind of hope that it would.

But yeah, I'm loving it.

I'm just loving the waff stability.

Yeah, I'm going to nick it off of you at some point,

because I'm really keen to have a go,

maybe do a family weekend away in it.

Because I just, I do love the idea of something big

and spacious and quiet and comfy.

Oh, it does all that.

It's just great.

The space is actually, it's not that spacious.

I had a look the other day.

It's partly because of those rear seats that recline.

Yeah, it's got the sliding reclining rear seats,

and I, you know, I'm six foot three

and I like to sit quite a long way back anyway.

But yeah, if you want an autobiography

and you want sprawling space for four on board,

you'll need to get the long wheelbase one, which this isn't.

Yeah, you will.

Yeah, you really will.

And then it's a big car.

Yeah, but yeah, it's lovely.

So two things there that Andrew's mentioned

that he's writing about.

So the Hagerty Festival of the Unexceptional

and his Range Rover Long Terma.

Now, this is the weekly reminder.

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I want to talk about a very different sort of car

that I have been in for a week.

It's the Porsche 911 Carrera S, right?

So the entire 911 range more or less

has been updated, hasn't it?

So we're now into 992.2.

So this is not a hybrid?

No, it's not.

So it's still the, excuse me,

the original three liter twin turbo.

And it kind of, price-wise,

is it sort of like on a par with a T

or is it a bit more expensive than a T?

I think it's a bit more expensive than a T.

But the point being is that a T is manual only

and the S is PDK only.

It is.

And it's a very, very interesting car to spend time in.

You know, it used to be that the 911 Carrera S

was the sort of heartland 911,

the poor model in the lineup.

The sort of definitive 911, I suppose.

Now I think it's become quite a different sort of car.

Even just to sit in it,

and this is partly because of the spec of this car

that I've spent some time in, the way it's been specified.

Did you mention it's got wood in it?

It's got wood, it's got wood inserts on the dash

and the transmission tunnel.

It's got all this leather everywhere

and nice bits of bright work as well.

So it's a really, really well-appointed cabin,

which is fine.

But it used to be, I think about the sort of

996 or 997 owner who's had a Carrera S for years.

I think about them stepping out of their car and into this.

They'd be so surprised at what kind of car it's become.

Certainly just sit in, right?

Because the interior has become quite ornate,

quite intricate.

It's got, in this car, certainly,

it's got those wood inserts, all that leather.

It doesn't really feel like a sort of

paired-back sports car at all.

Is it sort of more generic Porsche

and less specifically 911?

It does feel that way, yeah.

Do you sometimes feel that you could be sitting in a Panamera?

Yeah.

To the point where, just to operate that car,

just to drive it in normal use,

low and moderate speeds,

there's so little about it that is sort of suggestive

of a true blue-blooded sports car.

Yeah.

The seating position, the view out,

the fact that there's no manual gearbox,

it all just makes it feel like a car.

It doesn't feel like a 911.

Can I put on my devil's advocate gown here?

No, please do.

Is there an argument which says,

because, I mean, I have noted this sort of thing,

probably not to the extent that you've now noted it,

but I've noted it in other 911s in the past,

this idea of a 911

for someone who doesn't really want a 911.

That's what it is.

My experience of those cars is that,

actually, if you use them,

because so much of what we do in cars

isn't driving on great roads,

then actually, the fact that they do isolate you

from all the goings on around you

might not be a bad thing,

because the cars are quite quiet,

they tend to ride quite well.

And the fact that that makes it less of a 911

in those sorts of situations,

do you actually want a 911

if you're stuck in heavy traffic

at the M4, M5 junction?

Do you actually just want a car

which is just going to be quite an unobtrusive

and you can just sit there and listen to the radio

and just wait for the event to pass?

So long as, when you do find yourself

in the right sort of environment,

then magically, as if from nowhere,

it's a 911 again, and does it do that?

That's more or less the conclusion I've come to.

And yeah, and when you do stick it into sport mode

and chuck it down a good road,

it's fast, the engine's great,

it handles really well,

steers well, you know, massive body control,

all the rest of it.

Would you set an alarm to go and drive over a good road?

No.

No, I wouldn't.

And so I think that's ultimately,

that's probably the point that I'm making here.

For me, the Carrera S has become

something other than a pure thoroughbred sports car.

It's become what you're describing,

the sort of the more do-it-all sports car

for people who really most of the time

just want the A car,

rather than something quite focused and purposeful.

Now, I haven't driven it,

but the obvious compare and contrast for you is

I ran for six months,

okay, it was 992 Gen 1,

but they're very little different.

I used to call it the poverty spec 911

because at the time it was the only 911 you could buy.

And you wound people up by doing it.

For a five figure sum,

you can't buy a 911 for a five figure sum anymore,

I don't think.

But anyway, you borrowed that car

and you went off and you did a video

about what is it about 911s.

So you spent a bit of time in that car.

Would you make the same observations about that car

or is there something about maybe the Gen 2

or what they've done with that S model specifically

which has turned it into a sort of less 911 experience?

I think the latter,

I think there is something about this car

that has taken it slightly further away

from where a 911 Carrera S used to be.

And actually the thing about your car,

it certainly had a broad spread of talents.

It wasn't a sort of very narrow minded focused car at all.

That's probably what I like most about it.

Yeah, but I think it still had a bit more about it,

just the way you just sit in,

peer out of to operate in normal use.

I think it still felt a bit more 911-y.

Because it had no options on it at all.

I think it had some electric seat adjustment

and preparation for some roof rails.

So the interior was absolutely bog standard.

But I never felt remotely shortchanged by that.

So what I've decided, what I've concluded is that

it just depends on what you're looking for.

And if ever there's a sports car

that appeals to a broad audience,

the 911 is it.

And so on reflection perhaps Porsche is right

to offer at least one model in the range.

Particularly because presumably for very similar money

you can go and get a T instead.

I'm having the T tomorrow.

And so I'm really interested to do a back to back

and compare and contrast.

I suspect what I'm going to find is that

if you are expecting your 911 to feel special

and to put you in a frame of mind

and to have this sense of it being

a thoroughbred sports car,

you probably do need the Carrera T.

That's what I'm expecting to find.

I adored the T.

Particularly now it's got that six speed manual.

I also quite like the fact that you can't get a PDK.

I like the fact that that actually

speaks to the very point that you make.

This suggests to me this is Porsche

because they said no you can't get a PDK with this car

in the same way you can't get a manual than S.

That's Porsche really trying to differentiate

the proposition, isn't it?

I think that's what's happening.

Porsche is now...

And they can't be blamed for that

because they offer the alternative.

That's the point, isn't it?

It's not like, oh the S has gone a bit bland

and the RIP 911.

It's gone that way

because there is now another 911

for people who want a 911

because they want a 911

not just because they like the image

of being seen in the 911.

That's it.

I think more now than ever

there is clear separation between these models

the less overlap between them

and you just have to be aware of what you're buying into.

You need to read the reviews

you need to test drive them if you can

because there will be a small constituent

of people who will expect

the Carrera S to be the definitive 911

the one that's going to give them that balance.

But it's not anymore.

I don't think it is.

All I can really conclude is this

it's not the one that I would want.

No.

So if there is a sort of 911 template

it's probably the base car now, isn't it?

Yeah.

And also just talking about that differentiation

and we'll stop going on about 911s

because we've probably said quite a lot of time

talking about them on this podcast anyway.

But are you going to drive a GTS as well?

Well, we did that a couple of months ago, didn't we?

I'm quite familiar with the GTS.

But the point is that that compared to previous GTS

is even more differentiated

because it's got the hybrid.

It's got its own powertrain now.

Exactly.

So that's clearly the way that they're going with the 911

and I think it's quite hard to fault as a strategy.

I think it is.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I was just very, very interested to observe that

in that car.

But not the one you would choose?

No.

I'll report back on Carrera T very, very soon.

I'm so excited to drive that car.

Can we do a little bit of motorsport, please?

What Belgian Grand Prix type motorsport?

Yeah, let's not linger on it.

No.

I don't think there's a lot to linger on, is there?

There isn't.

I think all I really wanted to say was

I think it's a shame that FIA didn't get the race started

sooner.

They waited an hour and a half for the...

Essentially for the rain to clear and the track

to almost dry.

We got a handful of laps on inters in the end,

didn't we?

Yeah, so I was really lucky.

I was so knackered after the Festival of the Unception

and I sort of got home and I'd gone out for a run

in the morning and then played some tennis and I just

basically exhausted myself.

And I sat down to watch the Grand Prix.

And I saw all the rain and I heard them go

and I thought I might just sort of rest the eyelids

for a minute.

And I woke up an hour and a half later,

literally as they are on the...

That spot on.

Yeah, so it was great.

I mean, it's always very difficult, isn't it?

But I think, you know, a few points.

I mean, Martin Bundle made a good point that

if you want to dry the track, you don't park cars

in the pit lane.

There's nothing better at drying tracks than

Formula One cars with their massive tyres.

And Max was saying, it's an overreaction, wasn't it?

And they've got those Monson tyres they never, ever use.

They just don't use them.

I think the issue is visibility, isn't it?

You think it's more visibility than water on track?

It must be because those extreme wets,

they will give your cut through standing water.

They'll give the drivers decent grit.

Yeah.

But they just chuck up so much water.

Yeah.

And you wouldn't want to be the 12th, 13th, 14th car

on a train, would you?

No.

I mean, is there an argument?

I mean, I know plenty of sort of more old-school

motor racing journalists who would just say let them race.

Yeah.

You know, that would never have stopped them in the past.

And, you know, big fat tires have been a factor

of Formula One for well over 50 years.

And, you know, that's the contract.

You know, if you want to be a Formula One driver,

you know, you want to be out there playing

with the big boys.

That's what you do.

They're also not forcing you to go out there.

I know that's a tough thing to say.

But what I will say is, A, it's easy for us to sit here

saying send them out.

You know, we're not responsible for anyone's safety.

But B, a load of the drivers were saying,

let's get on with it.

Let's get on with it.

And it should come down to them.

And if they want to be out there.

It should come down to them.

Yeah.

They're the ones taking the risk.

They should be a button on their steering wheels.

And it's anonymous.

And the FIA says, let us know what you want to do now.

And everyone presses the button.

And if more than half say let's race, they go racing.

Yeah.

And if you don't want to race, then park up.

OK, that well with the sponsors, wouldn't it?

Well, yeah, there is that.

So we should just say Oscar Piastri won, didn't he?

Ahead of Norris, ahead of Leclerc, ahead of Verstappen.

And actually we saw twice because there's a sprint race.

The pole sitter just loses the lead down the camel straight

into Lecombe.

Yeah.

And then the race is done, isn't it?

Seemed to be.

Yeah.

Which is a bit worrying if on a circuit like Spa,

in variable weather you can't have a really cracking run.

But those McLarens are just.

And it's not just their raw pace.

It's their ability to manage their tires, isn't it?

It's just black magic, isn't it?

So Piastri now leads Norris by 16 points.

So it's still bloody close, just over halfway through.

Yeah.

I mean, that's not even.

Yeah.

So if in the next race he DNF'd and land a,

well, won it then it would just change around completely.

Easy leading by nine points.

Yeah.

Let's just hope we'd continue to have a proper ding dong.

Yeah.

Because it's the only real contest out there at the moment now,

isn't it?

Yeah.

That's all there is really to play for.

Is Piastri actually the better driver?

Oh, God.

We've been down this road.

Because just that, you know, he did make that mistake

under the safety car at Silverstone that got him

the 10 second penalty.

But otherwise he was going to win that race.

I don't think that's a mistake.

A mistake is something you don't intend to do.

Okay.

I absolutely intend to do it.

But he shouldn't have done it.

He shouldn't have done it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

But he absolutely.

He meant to do it.

Yeah.

You don't shed 100 miles by accident.

No.

It was a mistake of judgment or something.

Yeah.

Well, an error.

Well, yeah, whatever.

Do I think he's the better driver?

Gosh.

I don't think he is the more talented driver.

But is he more likely to win the world championship?

Yes.

He's got the mentality, hasn't he?

I think that's what it comes down to.

That's what it comes down to.

He is just, I mean, you know, I'm such a massive lander,

because I just want to the bloke and I just,

and as I think people listen to the podcast may know,

I said as much, by the way, they conduct themselves

out of the cars in it.

And I think that he is a thoroughly deserving world champion

even though he may not get it this year,

may never get it.

Whereas Piastri is, he's Alan Prost, isn't he?

I think so.

He's a professor in the making.

He's a guy who just goes around knocking it out really,

really quick, keeps his nose clean.

And yeah, he's just always there, isn't he?

I think Norris probably has more peak potential,

a greater, you know, higher potential ceiling.

But he doesn't tap into it as often as Piastri taps into

whatever his potential is.

And therefore Oscar is the more complete driver

at the moment.

I mean, as Crofty was saying, and he did say it

relentlessly over and over and over again on commentary

yesterday, and I did get a bit cheered off with the whole

thing.

But the point he was making is absolutely correct.

That Haddon at Lando not made any mistakes.

Well, first of all, if he'd done a better start

at the beginning of the Grand Prix.

But thereafter, those times when he ran wide at Pouin,

he locked up, I think, at La Source.

And if he hadn't done that, he would have been

within DRS range easily before the end of the race.

And if you're in DRS range on the Camel,

you're probably going past.

As long as you're close enough, yeah.

As long as you're close enough.

And now where Rouge is in the corner, you know,

the corner between before the Camel is essentially

La Source, which is a very slow hairpin.

So you can follow through La Source and then

you just blitz it all the way down the straight.

And so, if he hadn't made the mistakes,

I think Norris would probably have won.

It's really odd to hear his engineer come on the

door and say things like, you need to focus on your breaking.

You know, don't lock up.

You don't hear other engineers come on to the drivers.

You only hear what the broadcasters want to hear.

That's true.

And they are playing to a narrative which they think

makes the coverage more interesting.

But I also don't get the impression that there's

another engineer on the other side of the pit garage

in Oscars here saying, you know,

break a bit more there, turn in a bit earlier there,

whatever.

And you never get Lando.

You hear Charlotte.

Even Charlotte is now getting cheesed off with the Ferrari

team just coming in his ear,

telling him how far away Max is.

But you just don't hear Piastri getting...

You really don't.

Educated in that way.

No, you really don't.

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Yeah, so Belgian Grand Prix.

So another thing I wanted to discuss,

and this might well come across as very sort of

little Britain, and I do apologize if that's the case.

But it sounds like we are sort of in agreement

that it's not going to happen anyway,

but there is a chance that Brits could win

all of the major FIA championships this year.

If we count the FIA championships to be F1, WEC,

Formula E, and WRC.

So Norris might well win the Formula One championship.

Yeah.

Elphin Irvins might well win the World Rally Championship.

Yeah.

James Collado, and if not Collado, maybe Phil Hanson

might well win the World Endurance Championship.

And Ollie Rowland has already won the Formula E championship.

Hurrah for the Brits.

Aren't we great?

Yes.

Are we feeling particularly British,

and we must make the distinction between being British

and being English, because this is the day after the lionesses.

Yes.

Won the Euros,

despite being clearly the inferior team

for the entire duration of the match,

but getting there just through tenacity

and guts and determination and never, ever, ever giving in.

So I guess we're feeling quite sort of patriotic.

Well, there is that,

but I also just don't think it's going to happen anyway.

No, but okay.

But it doesn't really need to happen for you to make the point

that actually in all the sort of top levels

of motorsport that there are,

there are Brits right performing at the highest levels

in the highest formulae that there are.

So it is great.

I mean, I think, so the Formula E's in the bag, WEC,

I think probably a Brit will win that.

Yeah.

So Evans in the WRC, Norris in F1,

we've spoken about Norris.

Elvin Evans.

He had a fantastic start to the season.

We're eight rounds in.

In the first four rounds,

he had four podiums and two wins.

Fantastic start.

In the following four,

he's not been on the podium once.

Oh.

What's happened?

Do you know, I'm actually not close enough

to these days to know.

No, I know.

But he's now one point behind Tanak.

He's second in the championship.

There are six rounds to go.

Slightly more concerning for Evans is that

he's only 20 points ahead of Sebastian Ogier,

who's skipped three rounds already.

He's not doing the full season.

And is Ogier going to do the rest of the season now?

I don't think he is.

But if I was Ogier,

I'd be looking at going,

right, get me in the car for every remaining round

and I'll see if I can win another championship here.

Because he's absolutely in it.

So Evans, I mean, if he can refind his form,

maybe it's on.

He can do it.

But off the podium in the last four,

that's not championship winning form, is it?

And I know that things are complicated

with road positions and all the rest of it.

But, you know, he's a point off the lead.

If he can get back to where he was

at the start of the season,

absolutely he could go and win the championship.

And he's been runner up several times.

So it would be fantastic to see.

And he'd be only our third WRC champion.

So I really hope it happens.

Yeah, so do I.

Stick with rallying just for a moment.

Last weekend, Oliver Solberg,

Young Solberg, Pettisolberg's son,

he won rally Estonia on what was a one off outing

for Toyota in a top spec rally one car, they call them.

He's been doing brilliantly in rally two

all season for Toyota.

So they gave him this one off outing

and he went and won it.

That's quite good.

Which is just spectacular.

Yeah.

He has done plenty of rallies in the WRC

in rally one cars or the top spec car,

but not since 2022.

So is this his first outright WRC win?

Yeah.

On a one off outing.

I mean, it's just fantastic.

That's talent, isn't it?

I remember being on the Monte Carlo rally

with Subaru, I think in 2008.

And Pettisolberg had his family there.

And his young son must have been

four or five years old or whatever.

Little kid, blonde curly hair just running around.

Oh, yeah.

This is him.

And now he's Oliver Solberg winning WRC rallies.

He's 23.

Wow.

It is quite something.

Now, listen, just to wrap up this week's podcast.

You have done something extremely special.

I have.

And this is another one of those things

where you're going to have to go and subscribe to the intercooler

using coupon code POD20 to get your 20% discount

if you want to read the full story.

It's up there.

The story's had an amazing response.

But you went off to Stuttgart to drive

a Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR.

Yeah.

You might need to explain exactly

what the significance of that car is.

Well, I think most people will know

the 300 SLR, they sold one of them.

They sold one of them.

They made 10 of which nine survived

because one was lost in the Le Mans disaster.

Two of the 10 were coupes.

The Ulin Hap Coupes.

The Ulin Hap Coupes, one of which was sold in 2022

for 135 million euros, beating the world record

for the most amount of money ever paid

for a car in an auction by 90 million euros.

At the same time, it became one of the top 10

expensive things of any kind ever sold.

So that's the kind of level we're at here.

And as I said, they made 10 of these things.

And nine of them were intended to race in 1955.

And not all of them did.

But one of them was intended to race in 1956.

And they made, so the last one, chassis 10,

was a very advanced super lightweight car

that was going to be their car for 1956.

Now, for various reasons, some say the Le Mans disaster,

some say not.

Mercedes-Benz decided not to race in 1956.

So this one car, this unicorn, was retired

and it was made a museum piece.

And that was that.

And very, very occasionally, Mercedes has wheeled it out

at things like the rerunning of the Milimilia

and it did it this year.

And it appears on the starting ramp at Brescia

and it probably is on a podium somewhere in Rome

and it gets carted around on a truck and that sort of thing.

But for reasons I'm still trying to get my head around,

I got a call, in fact, I got an email

saying, do you want to come and drive it?

Wow.

And the point is, no journalist has ever driven this car before.

And I don't know what to say about it.

I feel so lucky and privileged and proud

that for some reason, I mean, I have been talking to them

about the 70th anniversary of the Milimilia win

and that car is now retired.

The famous one, the most famous one, 722,

which was chassis four.

The one that Stirling Moss won.

Stirling Moss won the Milimilia in a record time

that was never there after beaten.

That car is in the museum.

You can go and see it.

But it last ran as a sort of tribute to Stirling

after he had died and it turned up to his house

in Shepherd Street and was received by his late wife, Susie.

And they said at the time that when they switched

the engine off then, that was going to be it.

And they haven't said that there are no circumstances

in which we will ever run this car again.

But what they have said is that they have no plans

to run that car again.

So that car is parked.

And so the 56 car, yeah, to be allowed to go and drive that

was, I mean, I couldn't, it's me, I've been so lucky

in my career.

But yeah, even the Ullunhout, there are two of those.

There's only one of these.

There's only 156.

And the fact that no journalist has ever been allowed

to drive it.

And, you know, you go there and the bizarre thing is

you would think wouldn't, I don't even want to think

about what it's worth.

But you would think that you would go there

and they would say, right, this is the deal, chum.

Yeah.

You don't do more than 40 miles in there.

You don't do more than 3,000 revs.

You can drive it for 30 seconds and then you park it

and then you can tell your readers that you drove

this car and whooped it up and we all know

but we just won't say you didn't drive it very far

and you didn't drive it very fast.

Would I have signed that box?

Would I have ticked it?

Probably.

Anyway, that's not what happened.

I turned up there.

I'd been in a holiday in Gozo the week before

and it is absolutely true that I signed more paperwork

to hire a Persian 108 than to drive a 300 SLR.

There was a track.

There was the SLR and they said,

do you know how this thing works?

And I said, I thought I probably did.

And they said, well, this is how it starts.

That's the layout of the gears.

Off you go.

That's it.

Blimey.

What's it worth?

Well, who knows?

It's one of one.

But the Ulinhout sold for 135 million euros.

That didn't race.

This hasn't raced.

But the Ulinhout, there is another Ulinhout

and it is one of a series of 55 specification 300 SLRs.

There's only one 56 specification 300 SLR.

It is 62 kilos lighter than Sterling's car.

So it had...

Wow.

They did all sorts of things to it.

I'm going to read about in the story which is on the app

and on the website now.

So I won't dwell on it now.

But they did all sorts of things to make it lighter

because they couldn't really get much more power out of the engine.

So I mean, who knows?

It's worth what an individual will pay for it

on the day that it becomes available for sale,

which it clearly never will.

So I guess it's a nine figure car.

Yeah.

It's got to be, hasn't it?

Yeah, it has.

But if you think about that, you can't drive it.

If you think about the value,

more than that, if you think about the originality,

because it was never raced,

it is as it was when they built it in December 1955.

It's the same car.

It's not like any other racing car

because all racing cars in the course of being raced,

they get pulled apart every every races

and engines get swapped over and they get crashed.

And they tend to become triggers broom type things.

This isn't that.

Imagine if I'd stuck it in a wall

and there was no shortage of opportunities

to do it around that track

because you're in the middle of Stuttgart, essentially.

You know, you could make the panels again,

but you can't put the history back.

You can't put the originality back.

And the only way you can drive a car like that

is to forget all about it.

Because if you thought about it,

if you thought about the risk to reward

of what you were doing,

you wouldn't even get in it.

I probably wouldn't.

Of course you would.

Yes, you're in Stuttgart.

You've got the private test track.

You're alone and you've got an SLR.

Believe me, Dan, you get it.

Yeah, you would.

No, you're right.

So having driven it then,

what's the sort with, you know,

a few weeks distance?

What's the lasting impression

of what as a machine to drive?

Well, I mean, the lasting impression

is just how fortunate and privileged

I was to be allowed to do it.

And I don't want to sort of,

because being brutally commercial,

if you all went and subscribed to the intercooler

to read the story,

that would be very helpful to us

and a great way to support this project.

But I guess it's how...

I mean, another example

of just how ridiculously lucky it is,

I have actually driven most of its rivals.

I've driven a D-type.

I've driven a 750 Monza.

I've driven an Aston DB3S,

which were all the cars,

which were kind of like knocking about,

trying to keep up and failing to keep up with it.

In 1955, the SLR won every single race it entered,

apart from Le Mans,

which was leading by miles

when the team withdrew it after the accident.

So, no one else could get anywhere near it.

And when you drive it,

the sense is of disbelief

that this thing is 70 years old

in all regards other than the brakes,

which just...

Yeah, I mean,

they're big drum brakes,

but Aston Martin had discs by then,

Jaguar had discs by then,

and the difference is night and day.

So, that's interesting.

So, I mean, Mercedes had the know-how

and the budget.

So, you think they just didn't believe discs were proven?

No, I think.

And I only know this because one of the guys

who was with the car said to me,

because I kind of had a conversation with them,

and he said,

well, of course, you didn't let us have your discs.

Was it because they were done lots?

They were done lots.

They were developed in England.

And they're very happy

to supply the Aston Martin and Jaguar.

And, you know,

10 years after the cessation of hostilities,

perhaps a little less keen

to supply them to Stuttgart.

And that was just one bloke's view.

I don't know if that was any bearing on the truth at all,

but it kind of has the ring of truth to it.

Yeah, it does.

It could well be true.

So, the 300 SLR was essentially the Formula One car.

It was.

With body work.

And is it that one, or is that a different year?

No, that is it.

So, just by chance,

there's a book on the desk in front of me

called Formula One, the Knowledge.

And it's got a modern Mercedes

Formula One car on there.

And what's the W number?

W196.

I knew it was that.

It was brave enough to say it.

You need to be watching this on YouTube

to understand what we're doing here.

Dan is holding up a book,

which has a, well, actually,

so that's a W number.

So, its name is public names W196.

Its code name is W196R.

Okay.

And the SLRs, public name, 300 SLR,

code name W196S.

Oh, okay.

So, they're that closely related.

That closely related.

And if you, when you sit in one,

what happens when you get into the driver's seat is,

the first thing that happens is

your left leg goes all the way to the left,

and your right leg goes all the way to the right,

because there's a socking great transmission type of

running between your feet,

just as there would be if it were a single seater.

And really, okay, the bodywork is different.

The suspension is basically the same.

The brakes are basically the same.

The gearbox is basically the same.

The engine is basically the same,

except that Formula One had a 2.5-litre formula.

So, it could only run at 2.5 litres,

whereas in the World Sports Car Championship,

as it was then,

you could run on an engine as big as you like,

but they couldn't get that engine beyond 3 litres,

so it's a 3-litre.

That is amazing.

So, to go and tackle the sports car scene in the 1950s,

Mercedes took its Grand Prix car,

put some bodywork around it to cover the wheels,

made the engine a bit bigger,

and now you go.

And it was unstoppable in Formula One,

and it was unstoppable in sports car racing.

Totally dominant.

That's great.

Think of the time of relief everybody else

must have breathed and when they withdrew.

And so, 56, we're not going to do Formula One,

and we're not going to do sports cars.

Someone else can win.

That's the goodness,

because no one else was anywhere near them.

And when you drive it, you can see why.

Well, I mean, it's a hell of a privilege

to get to go and drive that car.

It is.

But it also says something about your standing

in the industry and the reputation that you have.

Wow.

That they invited you to go and do it.

And I'm just very proud that we get to run

that story on these cars.

Well, I'm very proud that we get to run it

on the intercooler.

I mean, they know all about the intercooler,

and clearly, you know, these decisions are made.

I mean, I guess the most important decision is,

do we actually think the bloke is capable

of doing this thing without damaging it?

But also, you know, they do need to think

about what's going to happen,

because, you know, this is not a cheap exercise.

You know, they had to chuck everything else

off their own test track to do it.

And, you know, the car every time it moves,

I'm sure it needs a huge amount of prep

both before and after,

because it's not a normal car.

But I just felt incredibly lucky,

blessed, fortunate, privileged, proud,

whatever to have been able to do it.

And just to sort of give it back and park it.

And that's one of the big, you know,

you think that once you do it,

you just want to drive it all day,

but actually, you get to that point

where you've got enough out of the driving experience

that you know you're not going to learn

any more about the car.

And then, actually, what you want to do is park it.

Yeah, you do, yeah.

Because you want to quit while you're ahead.

So I didn't want to carry on driving it

and driving it and driving it.

I just wanted to give it back and go,

thank you guys, that was unbelievable.

So I did.

What a cool thing to get to do.

And the story is fantastic.

And the photography, by the way,

by our friend, Algen Kordel, is just mega.

But honestly, if you can't write a decent story

and take a decent snap of a car like that,

you should probably be looking at another way of anything.

Yeah, you're right.

Okay, well, we'll wrap that one up there.

But listen, everyone, thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching.

We appreciate it.

Please just follow the show.

If you're watching on YouTube,

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And it's only when you listen to these things ad-free

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it's just lovely not to have the flow broken.

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It's just great to know that you're going to start listening

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Well said.

Thanks, everyone.

And we'll be back again next week.

See you then.

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