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TK
About this episode
Tony Kanaan shares his unexpected journey from driver to team principal at Arrow McLaren, reflecting on the challenges and responsibilities of leading a top-tier IndyCar team. He discusses his deep loyalty to the brand, the tough decisions he's had to make, and the pressure of managing a large organization. Tony also talks about his long-standing relationship with team owner Zach Brown, the team's successful 2025 season, and the strategic choices for 2026, including adding a fourth car with Ryan Hunter-Reay. The conversation offers a candid look at Tony's transition from the cockpit to the leadership role and his passion for racing.
Topics:
tony kanaan career transition
team principal role
arrow mclaren indycar
team leadership challenges
relationship with zach brown
2025 indycar season review
2026 team plans
ryan hunter-reay signing
racing team management
brand loyalty and identity
Cars:
McLaren F1
Tony Kanaan takes Rossi through the evolution of his job at Arrow McLaren, talks about the fourth car at the 500, and more.
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"...'s, you have the automotive side, but it's really McLaren F1, which Zach is mm-hmm . Is the number one guy, an..."
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This is, is off track.
Hi guys, it's Alex. Tony's not, or sorry.
Well, there you go. I just, uh, good start. I ruined it.
Good. James is not here.
Um, but funny story, before we introduced Tony Canon, he, uh, he came up to Tim and I on the grid in Nashville.
We haven't talked about Nashville on the show yet, but I'll give you a little preview of, of Nashville.
And, uh, he was like, what does it, what does it take for a guy to get on this show?
And, uh, Tim was like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure you've been on it.
And I was like, ah, I don't know, maybe I think you have.
But, uh, and he was, Tony was confident.
He's like, no, I haven't, I I I wanna be on.
Well, SIM goes back and looks at the records and is like, yeah, Tony's been on three times.
Um, and, uh, it's, it's always been been super good.
But anyways, uh, Tony Canon on the show for the first time as Principle of Errol McLaren.
So thanks, thanks for being here.
Oh, you're welcome. But see, then, then I'm right,
it's been more than a year, so that that then doesn't count.
But yeah, I, I totally did not remember.
But, but honestly, thanks for having Yeah, dude. Yeah.
And you know, this is what people do for free.
So when you give, you know, I gave Tim and you a hard time, and basically just Alex I think thinks I was sitting at the beach today having a margarita, or like, and then he text me like in the middle of the day, like, can you do it in 20 minutes?
I'm like, sure. As I ask, I have to. Yes.
Well, that's funny to You.
He said he was gonna text you yesterday.
So that Means like, he had the idea.
He was like, I'll just put it off. I'll text him
later. ,
he knows me. He just bosses me around, you know, like, yeah.
He, he tell me he didn't, because like, I'm not texting him.
I said, I need you in 20 minutes. I said, okay, I'm ready.
And look at that. What a guy.
What a guy. What a guy.
Um, even, even branded as Tony usually is.
So the first question I wanna ask, I'm at work, Alex.
I come to work branded.
No, no, I know, but, and we're, we're gonna get to, we're gonna get to your evolution through the team, but when you first joined the team, it, it wasn't obviously in the role that you were in now, but one of the things that is so TK and something that is, um, something that I admire about you is in your role, everything that could be customized to papaya was customized from the shoes to the whoop strap, to the, the AirPods,
the AirPod case, the mouse, um, the computer mouse.
Literally everything from like day three was, was papaya and .
That is just your commitment to the brand and whatever brand you're representing, that's honestly a part of as to why you've been so successful in so many different facets.
So I wanna get right into it. Yeah.
When you did join that role in 20 24, 20, The 2023, the, the, the team principle.
No, I joined the team 23, we did the 500, and I reached yes, 23.
But in 23. And you were kind of, you were, you were
with the team, you were building up to the 500 in May.
You were working with NTT, you were working with partners at the track.
Did it ever cross your mind that 18 months later you would be running the operation?
No, not, not at all.
I mean, that was never my intention, you know, because obviously you were part of it.
Um, I was looking like, and I remember because for the first time in my life, um, I never, I didn't have a plan, Alex.
People kept asking me, what are you gonna do after he retires?
I said, I have no idea. And actually kind
of backfired a little bit because I thought it was gonna be the coolest thing that people are gonna think was cool.
And people kept asking, really.
So I started to get concerned myself.
I'm like, do I need really to find a job ?
You know, like, is that bad not to know?
So I, my plan was to all along, I was gonna come to the race weekends, right?
That was already agreed when I signed in 23.
But that was just obviously a, um, like after the 500 was what, uh, 11 or 12 races.
So we bought a motorhome.
Lauren and I, for the first time, I think joined the summer with the kids.
And, and three months in, we had some, um, you know, some changes in issues in the team, which you, you were still here.
And, and it start to evolve and you saw it like, uh, that was obviously, I'm only a year into the team principle.
So we're talking about, it took actually full two years, but by Laguna, Zach came to the race and says, Hey, uh, next year I want you to go full time.
And I said, full time for what?
And I said, I don't know what to do.
What do you want me to do? Zach says, well, you tell me.
And me, as a dumb as I am, I wrote a big list to try to impress the boss, right?
So I remember sitting here and then the, at the car having breakfast, and I brought him the sheet of paper, like full of, I said, here, boss thinking he was gonna pick two or three.
He goes, okay, done . I'm like, what do you mean?
You said you can do all of it.
So I started that and, you know, I was involved with the team the whole time.
You remember that I was here quite a bit and I spent the whole year just really looking, helping Brian Barner at the time, Gavin and, and, and everyone else.
And then I think that's probably was something that if people look back, some people can say, well, you just put it there by Zach to look around and after a year, make an assessment.
Because since we had bought the team, we didn't really replace a lot of people.
Right? You came on board, you brought Brian,
they hired Gavin, but the core of the team was the same.
Not at all, wasn't the intention.
But then when that happened, the thing is, I knew exactly, I know what to do, and I knew what people they were buying in and people that were not buying in.
And that was a very difficult place for me to be, because obviously day one I had to make some tough decisions.
But no, to answer your question, I, I had zero intentions to do it.
But you just mentioned opening the show, if I commit to do something, I am going to do it.
If I'm your friend, I'm the most loyal person you are always gonna have.
But if I'm not, you know, like, so That's, no, it's, it's, um, I witnessed it and, and I can, I can say that it was a truly, like a very organic situation.
Like, it, it wasn't, you weren't a plant, you weren't, um, some kind of double secret agent sort of thing.
Like you did such a good job at, at one role, right?
And then you kind of dipped your toes into a different role and, and it continued to grow.
And, and honestly, we've talked about it on the show kind of at length this year.
You know, looking back at the year that the team had the most successful year that they've had in IndyCar, obviously you played a big role in that.
Before we get there, like you mentioned Zach, let's talk about your relationship with Zach.
'cause I don't think a lot of people realize.
It goes way back to when Zach was racing and you guys were actually teammates in Brazil, and there's this photo of you two and you were teammates at one point. .
I mean, it, it, that's a long time ago.
I think probably you and Tim were not even born, but, um, yeah, I mean, we were friends, we raised we're teammates.
Um, I remember that when I was Zach teammate, I spoke zero, zero, but, but zero.
I don't that I speak English right now, but zero. You
Get 50% now. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah.
Ah, 35 according to my kids, you know, thanks for the 50.
That's a compliment from me. Yeah, yeah.
Um, but yeah, and, and my dream was always to come to America.
Obviously it wasn't, it was in Europe, uh, when we raced.
So we've been friends forever, which it's kinda like was also another thing that I had to be careful, right.
Because you've seen some interactions you've seen in my retirement.
He's making jokes about me and people, some people look at this, do they know each other because like Zach, the boss, you know?
Um, but yeah, so the relationship there, it's quite close, but at the same time, it had to change a bit.
When I'm here, we don't use that. Obviously.
That is more of a, there is no like a boss intimidation or like, that is the respect.
And I know exactly when we're talking serious, like there are days that we don't joke.
There are days that we talk about doing a race together with old cars and stuff, but yeah.
Um, it didn't, it didn't hurt obviously that he knows Foundation was there. Yeah.
Yeah. And then I know who he is, like as far
as personality and how things are.
So I didn't have to learn my boss.
So being as though McLaren is this, this massive operation, right?
Obviously it's, you have the automotive side, but it's really McLaren F1, which Zach is mm-hmm .
Is the number one guy, and then there's these branches of, of the brand, right?
Era. McLaren, I would say is probably the,
the second most recognizable above any of the sports car stuff and that sort of thing.
So explain to me what it's like being a team principle for a brand of that caliber, but also being a team principle of brand of that caliber as your first time, right?
You didn't, you didn't have the advantage of, of some of these other people that have worked their way up through the ranks.
You know, I, I'm, I'm not gonna name names, but they start in the team manager role, right?
And then they kind of are an apprentice below the big boss for a little bit, and then they, they get promoted, right?
So they get to see the inner workings of a team and, and how the organization is run.
You have seen various sides of it, but, but really only through the eyes of a driver.
So what is that transition like to now be on the flip side, but also have the pressure of, of representing one of the biggest brands in motorsports?
I mean, to be fair, I actually remember since I've had my run after I left Andretti, I kind of decided back then that I wanted to be able to control my own destiny in racing, right?
And that led me to the sponsorship side, get involved.
And you saw how long of relationships I had with sponsors that follow me through every team I've been including this one.
So that gave me a little bit of, uh, on the branding side, you all make fun of me all the time.
There is TK everywhere, you just make fun of me.
There is McLaren, McLaren and McLaren everywhere.
So I think I had an idea also, but I had to, the, the, the, the weight that it carries, when you just add the McLaren name on it, it's not for everyone, I believe.
Mm-hmm . Especially for a rookie, let's call it.
But my advantage, and then I think that's something that maybe people won't understand, but us race car drivers, I don't think we're gonna be able to describe what pressure is.
This is pressure, but it's different. Mm-hmm . Right?
So that didn't really phase me.
Uh, I think for the listeners that don't know me well, I don't get intimidated by it.
I mean, it's really not, I'm not trying to brag about it.
It's just us. We don't, we can't.
And I think I got conditioned to that doing, you know, my entire life racing.
So you become, you act like at the us there's the good and the bad.
You become as selfish, you know?
It's, it's, it is what it is. This is who we are.
So that wasn't a big deal.
The, I I would say it was not a big adjustment, but then you become responsible for 120 people, you become responsible.
That people that I've known for a long time, I'm not, we don't need to get into details, but the decisions that I had to make you and I, the conversations that we had, you are my friend.
You are mm-hmm . I mean, and, and that is,
we needed it to separate.
We had to make a tough decision both sides.
We had to com like that is when it comes that you like, you really wanna do this or not, because you can't make decisions by favoring a friend.
Yeah. Right. You gotta look for the company. Now.
It's a big brand. And any thing that you do,
any move you make, it's gonna beg, have a huge consequence.
Not on me, but on the employees, on the brand.
But also it took me my entire career to be make my own brand and my own reputation.
And before I was in fully control of it, now I add another, another brand that is much bigger.
Yep. That is helping, that is not helping
or helping control that.
Is that, does that make sense? It does.
So, so, but what's harder, what was harder?
Um, for me, it's to slow down and knowing that I don't need to make a decision in three minutes or one hour between sessions.
You know, I can sleep on today and change my mind tomorrow as long as I don't, and change it.
And again, and put a deadline to that.
To me, still, I struggle quite a bit.
That's part of my personality, regardless.
But the respo and, and, and, but those, again, I'm gonna go back to you make a change in the car.
If it's not good, it's on me.
I gotta figure out I make a change here or not, or I jump the gun here.
I'm affecting an entire organization, good or bad. Right?
So it's the, the hardest part was to actually understand the timing, which it's impossible to understand timing.
The timing is now, the timing is tomorrow. So together.
But that I I I, I was out of my comfort zone that I knew race.
If that doesn't work, I'm gonna do something else.
Like, uh, on the card here, I'm still, I'm still learning.
So a lot of people, like, obviously I have Zach, but Zach didn't hire me for me to ask him 10 questions a day.
Right. And Zach was always,
but like, I know the way he works, Zach is like, bring me the problem, but bring me three solutions and we'll think about it.
So I use a lot of people here that I trust to, to lean on and, and ask.
I was never afraid to ask. I was never afraid.
And I am still not to things that I don't know.
I mean, I gotta do a board meeting, I gotta do a PowerPoint.
I gotta write an email. I mean, I don't even know chat.
GPT nowadays is awesome, right? .
But if I write an email to, I write an email with my report, people are gonna go, uh, is he in fifth grade or something, you know?
Yeah. So those kind of things.
I had to be more mindful before you're a driver.
You, you talk the way you want to talk. Sure.
So, uh, it's the timing and, and and, and really understanding that, you know, leaning on the right people and not being afraid to show that some of the weaknesses that you have, but doesn't mean you're not a good leader.
You know, you were one of the most, uh, one of the most popular drivers, especially in Indianapolis.
Like when you take the lead at the 500, it's always a big deal when when you get announced as the driver announcements, it's always a big deal.
I know you said you had no plans when you had retired, but was there a bit of you that thought of doing a more like, fan forward thing?
Like, you know, Hinch went into commentating and things like that.
Was that ever Tim, Um, people that know me like you too, you could have said first thing, you should go, you know, people like you, you can outspoken, but you should go on tv.
That was always, somebody always had mentioned that you should go to tv because I guess naturally that's what athletes do when they retire, right?
You look at football.
And so it, it did cross my mind.
But to be fair, I think that was the time that actually Hinch just had started it.
and, and e everybody had told me, but I got zero phone calls.
I mean, I had no plan. I was woke about having no plan.
Nobody consider tour plan, either Not, Not at all.
So, um, I say, I think we can blame James on this . Yeah.
No, but you know what I mean. It's like, whoa.
I mean, they knew and everybody was asking, well, the, nobody even going, do you wanna do an Indian lights, uh, Indian next race, uh, in the booth?
None, not, I mean, it took me a year to get back on your podcast.
That means I'm that bad. But yeah. Right.
So, uh, I didn't know what to consider.
Uh, honestly, I, and a little, I was a little bit concerned because obviously I was not gonna going to starve, but also, I'm not the type of person that was gonna be just sitting your, sitting at home.
Yeah. But Alex is gonna make fun of me
because, uh, we kind probably gonna need a three hour podcast here.
But we, uh, as much as I hate simulators, back in the day that Alex and I had to go pick two of them up and put it on a kind of bed of a pickup truck from a friend's house, and it started to rain, and then we like, like, and I, he despised that.
I actually had started after that, uh, a good partnership.
So this, this was during COVID when you guys, during COVID from, uh, yeah.
From George's house, right? Yes. Correct.
Yeah. And, and we hated every minute.
Alex keeps not liking it.
And I fully embedded on products, developing products.
So that was actually probably my safe net there.
I knew that I was gonna do something, but it was not totally related to IndyCar and then racing.
So I want to talk a little bit about your 2025 and then your 2026.
So 2025 pato is the class champion we like to call it on here.
You know, no one was touching the 10 car for all the reasons that we don't need to get into.
Um, Patto had a phenomenal year.
Obviously Christian did a great job.
The team as a whole, I think had the most amount of podiums that they've ever had in a season that looks pretty good on your resume for year number one.
Was, was, was it a surprise to you, or did you think, all right, if we put these pieces together, like everything we have, what it takes, it just is about execution at this point?
Well, first of all, I'm gonna ref, I'm gonna ask answer with asking you a question in my book, and then I don't wanna sound, and I told that to the team.
Do you really think we had a good year?
You know, who had a good year was a 10 car, right?
We had a very consistent year.
We, I set some goals in the beginning of the year that I think we achieved some of them, but we did not win, uh, more races than we did the year before we won to let the year before we won three debatable the stampede won, but it, a win is a win.
Sure. Right? But yes, I mean, we,
I set some goals that I've learned the previous year.
Obviously, we correct a lot of things, including that involved your crew at the time that it's always like that, right?
It's, it's, you get it. Sometimes it's the way it is.
But, um, so I think we achieved a lot of the goals.
Um, did I ex expectations, Alex?
It's hard in racing what is an expectation?
Because if you're gonna base yourself on results only you're done.
You need to go, all right, maybe it didn't, the, the outcome, like the end result didn't, but did we achieve?
Because you never know somebody's gonna hit you.
Is it gonna, you know, you the result wise?
But yes, I think I've always said that.
I said that to the team.
I said that outside, said that to you.
I think we had a huge potential and we have a huge potential.
We have a brand. We have,
we're very self-finance, self-sufficient.
We don't like sponsorship, which is the most important thing in racing to keep it.
So we have everything. We had everything,
but we were not there.
And having to single out one problem at a time as we do as drivers, like priority 1, 2, 3, 4.
I was like, I had to pick three mm-hmm .
And then try to, but I wanted to do 15. Sure.
So it worked.
Uh, we were gonna call luck, uh, if I was competent, competent or not.
I mean, I think my ability to put the passion on people or whatever you wanna call, you know how intense I am.
You know how I'm here 13 hours a day, right?
I think that drove people to elevate as well.
It's not pressure. Like it's just, I'm here guys, I'm,
and we're gonna do this.
No, you're leading by example. Yeah.
Right. So I think that was a big part of it
because to be fair, look at the team.
We didn't change a lot of people now. Yes.
We're kind of like in the off season, kind of like we're being remodeling a little bit.
But it wasn't, I think my idea of, you know, the, the, the lineup of the leadership team.
I'm talking about the top from engineers to my group here in the office.
It's something that I wanted to have like references that we all had in the past on the teams that are being successful and they're beating us.
You need consistency.
You can't keep turning around people every year because I think I got there, but now it's, again, it's another year.
And, and you know, every year, like it was a big deal.
Like you talk about how many people I had to let go last year to kind of change a little bit.
The culture here. Not
that there are bad people at all, at all.
Hmm. But I had to, when I took over,
it was 12 people this year was another 11.
And some people left, as you all know. Hmm.
You always adjusting. Right?
And you always have to believe in the process.
But in racing, like, look, look, that's the way it goes.
And then you go to the first race and you don't do well.
Well, you change everybody.
You at your best cheer of your career.
Of course. Yeah. No. So
You're only as good as your last race, man.
And, um, I think it's, it's interesting that you, you mentioned the pressure, how as a driver being in that role, you don't necessarily feel it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right?
Like there's, there's a, there's a huge amount of, of responsibility on your plate.
Um, while we have you for a few more minutes, let's go quickly into 2026.
Uh, last week we had on our good friend, RHR, um, who is over the moon at the opportunity, um, to get to, to drive your fourth car at Indy.
Walk us through that thought process.
Was he always kind of on the short list?
Like how did that come to be?
Look, you know, because you've been here, um, that fourth car was always a struggle to make it happen because we're, we're stretched really thin.
We had the F1 guys coming to help, blah, blah, blah.
But it was always the intention to fill a car to win the 500.
So Montoya. Then you get myself, Larson.
So when we're debating, I said, well, what's the angle here?
I, I wanna win. Right?
And let's face it, Christian and Nolan are getting there, but with your departure, I was down to really realistic.
I need to be one guy last year. It's the fact.
So I said I need to, I need another roster here to help out.
'cause they know obviously Christian is doing better anyway.
And then he is really, like Ryan was, if you look around it, it was like the years that I was doing the 500, I was such in a good spot because I was still pretty good and I was a obvious choice, right?
So he was always on my list and, and, uh, but at the time he was still trying to decide on, you know, he had to deal with dry rainbow and, but that the way it worked was I called him and it is like, no different than I would've called you.
I said, Ryan, you are my teammate.
I know you for two decades.
We have three days to do this and we're not gonna go X and I'm gonna go y like I'm gonna tell you and we need to sign.
He's like, that's fine. And I said, it's you and I.
And then once we agree, we send to the lawyers to, because I need to get this done now.
Mm-hmm . Don't ask me why. And and he goes, okay.
And, and we got it done in three days.
And, um, it's funny how it works because, you know, it's, he looked at me, he is like, wow, you know Ryan, right?
He's like, oh, oh wow, look at your office.
Oh, can I have this chair?
I'm like, are you already asking for stuff?
And then the funny part was like, Hey, you know, if you hadn't treated me nice, now I'm your boss.
So it was funny to see.
Can you share, there was a, there was a quote from Zach a couple months ago, I wanna say.
Yeah. Where it was like, if, if this name works out
for the fourth car, can you share who that is or no?
Look, you know Zach? Yeah.
Zach throw out or like every single name. Yeah.
Well, he says, can we get Lio?
I said, you know, he owns a team like Yeah. Next door.
Like, no, we can't. Yeah.
Um, and I know he is been thrown out some names out there.
He mentioned, you know, Schumacher that he talked about, Valentino Ross.
Mm-hmm . Like, I always stated it to Zach.
Uh, to be fair, Alex, uh, we could have to say, you know, like you said, Brad Pitt, we put him in an F1 car.
Well, he has a whole month to learn. Yeah. Right.
So I was always like, Zach, we need to, I want a a, a car to win. Do you want,
Do you want a press car or do you want a car that can, that Which, which is fine, I just needed to understand.
But me in this position, I do have a little, I I wanna win the press car.
I need to understand how much more press we need.
Where Mylan, you're Zach. Yeah. So, yeah. Did you,
Were you, were you ever on your own list?
No, man. Like, I was so tired of this thing.
'cause you see, you guy, you make fun of me all the time.
Like, I tried to retire since COVID and yes, those are my own fault.
And then the deal with Lars, I was the, the reserve. Yeah.
Uh, no, I was never in my own living number.
Did you lose my number? You were, did you not
know how to get ahold of me? Well,
Kim, you had, you have grown, I think you're still in pub with you, so you wouldn't, you, you know that you wouldn't fit in the car anymore. . You,
I mean, you did drive last year. Technically
I did drive.
And Alex telling You too, you haven't given it up yet.
So that story, I don't, I I'm gonna share.
I don't, we don't have a lot of time, but I was on the grid civilian close, like waiting for the national anthem and, and my phone ringed.
It was Rocket saying, is your suit ready?
Because it was gonna ring.
I didn't get in the car by 15 minutes.
And I have to say, if I've ever, like, it's uncomfortable is, you know, this is uncomfortable every start of 500, no matter how many you do.
Yeah. Actually, I actually have to say it.
It's worse as you go. The more you do it, I remember
Is going down. Yeah,
I won.
No. So anyway, that was the most frightening.
I started it to panic. I'm not joking.
I, I, I didn't eat, I didn't drink. I went to bed.
I mean, like, I was not ready.
And, and no matter what I said to myself, once I had gotten that car, I was gonna go for it regardless.
So yeah, I, no, never on my list. No.
No. Okay. All right.
So, so the TK last lap has actually happened.
It is, it is done.
Hey, um, again, they sent me to the simulator last week.
So it is never gonna really done .
My point is, I have a boss.
If I can't control my own destiny, yes, Uhhuh, But if I get threatened by my job, I mean mm-hmm .
You know, I drove, I, it wasn't that bad last year. It was fun. The
2035 Indy 500 champion , you know, I think, Hey Alex, how about this?
I think I just should start drinking barber and gain a bunch of weight.
Then, then they're not gonna consider it. 'cause I won't fit anymore.
See Tony, they call that Pollen a Tim. Mm.
Here we go. Yeah, There you go.
Well, listen, man, um, thank you very much for your time, especially on short notice.
Um, congratulations on your new role, the success you're having.
I am, I'm very happy for you and, and the friends that I still have there and enjoy the off season.
What, uh, thank you. What you can get
and the hi to the family and thank you again for coming on.
No, well thanks for having me. Now.
I'm gonna put it on my calendar.
You know, I, that I've been here so I can count the dates. Come. We'll see you next to come back
Next, next November. And,
And I echo what you said.
If, if, if we can win, you know that I always, you know, I hope you can. I
Appreciate you, man.
Thank you very much, much.
This has been off track with Hinch and Rossi.
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