Identity and discipline take center stage as Tom Pelphrey talks about separating self-worth from external validation and redefining success around who he is “as a human being.” He describes loving the work itself—especially when “you are your own instrument”—and how that mindset supports consistency. Road-trip stories add texture: driving cross-country in a Jeep Wrangler and later planning family trips with an old car or even a Winnebago. The conversation also touches on empathy, character work, and the symbolic responsibility of buying American.
Jim Farley welcomes noted actor Tom Pelphrey (Ozark, Task) to DRIVE, discussing road trips, family, and how Pelphrey defines success. The conversation centers on separating identity from acting, how sobriety and self-reflection helped Tom stop measuring life by reviews and awards, and why focusing on the work itself—not outcomes—improved both his happiness and performance.
00:00 Open
01:19 Road Trip Favorites
02:09 Blue The Road Dog
04:16 Driving Endurance
07:16 Giants Family Fandom
09:47 Redefining Success
11:36 Sobriety And Perspective
12:58 Love The Work
17:05 Empathy Through Reading
21:05 Shaking Off Characters
25:03 Fatherhood Changes Choices
31:44 Closing
DRIVE with Jim Farley is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Nuzum of Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi and Kristen Mueller with help from Lori Arpin, Angela Brewer, Max Owen-Dunow, Anne Roberts, Samantha Singhal, Darnell Macon, Brandon Kennedy, and Mark Truby.
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"...s literally always by my side. We drove in a Jeep Wrangler all across this beautiful country of ours. And un..."
The Jeep Wrangler is an SUV built for off-road driving, like dirt roads and trails. People often choose it for road trips because it’s tough and made to handle rough conditions. In the podcast, it’s used as the vehicle for traveling across the country.
The Jeep Wrangler is a rugged off-road SUV known for its go-anywhere capability and simple, durable design. It’s often discussed in podcasts because it’s a popular choice for road trips and outdoor adventures, where drivers want a vehicle that can handle rough terrain. In this episode, it’s mentioned as the vehicle Jim Farley used to travel across the country.
"late in his career, different situation. He got an F-150, this is like in the 50s, outfitted it with a place to live in the back, which was totally radical then, took his dog Charlie, who's a poodle, but a big poodle, very athletic"
The Ford F-150 is a large pickup truck meant for work and carrying things. It can also be modified for road trips, including adding a sleeping or living space in the back. The podcast mentions it as a truck that was set up that way for travel with a dog.
The Ford F-150 is a full-size pickup truck designed for hauling, towing, and everyday driving. It’s significant in automotive history because it’s been a long-running, widely used truck platform, and it can be customized for unusual purposes. In the podcast, it’s referenced in a story about outfitting the truck’s rear area as a place to live while traveling with a pet.
"And he did it to protest the 55 mile an hour in his eyes, government overreach was Dan Gurney who had won Le Mans. He was a great driver from Southern California and he didn't like the 55 mile an hour speed limit."
This is the U.S. rule that capped highway speed at 55 miles per hour. The story says Dan Gurney didn’t agree with it and drove fast as a form of protest.
The 55 mph speed limit refers to the U.S. national maximum speed limit that was widely enforced to reduce fuel use and improve road safety. The segment frames Dan Gurney’s actions as a protest against that policy.
"He felt like it was not the right thing for the government to do. So he got a Ferrari Daytona and he and his buddy went from a bar in New York to Redondo Beach in 36 hours and they started the race called the Cannonball Run."
The Ferrari Daytona is a legendary high-performance Ferrari sports car. Here it’s mentioned because Dan Gurney used it for a famous long, fast drive that became part of the “Cannonball Run” legend.
The Ferrari Daytona is a famous Ferrari grand touring (GT) sports car, best known for its high-speed road-racing heritage. In this story, Dan Gurney uses a Ferrari Daytona to run a long-distance, record-style trip that predates modern speed-limit enforcement debates.
"So he got a Ferrari Daytona and he and his buddy went from a bar in New York to Redondo Beach in 36 hours and they started the race called the Cannonball Run. And it's been run in four years."
The Cannonball Run is a famous (and very risky) idea of driving across the country as fast as possible. The hosts connect it to an early story about Dan Gurney starting that kind of challenge.
The Cannonball Run refers to an informal, high-speed cross-country driving challenge where drivers try to cover a route as quickly as possible. In the segment, it’s traced back to Dan Gurney’s early long-distance run, which helped popularize the idea.
Open
Road Trip Favorites
Blue The Road Dog
Driving Endurance
Giants Family Fandom
Redefining Success
Sobriety And Perspective
Love The Work
Empathy Through Reading
Shaking Off Characters
Fatherhood Changes Choices
Closing
Select text to request an explanation
When I was younger, my entire identity was actor, actor, actor, you know, and that was
a really painful way to live, and kind of a foolish way to live, because when something
went good, I was the king of the universe, and when something went bad, I was completely
worthless.
And I realized, thankfully, thank God, many years ago, that that should not be my identity
nor where I put my focus.
And so now my success is based on who I am as a human being, who I am as a father and
as a partner and who I am as a friend.
And my work is something that I love to do, but it is not my identity and it is not how
I measure myself.
I'm Jim Farley, and this is Drive.
You know my guest today, Tom Pelfrey, from TV shows like Ozark on Netflix and the HBO
series Task.
What stood out to me about our conversation wasn't the roles he played, rather it was
his perspective on identity and discipline, and what happens when you stop measuring
yourself and your life by reviews and critics and awards.
We talked about being on the road and driving, our families, and about learning to love the
work for its own sake.
Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to warm up with some simple questions like, what is
your go-to road trip song?
Ooh, go-to road trip song kind of depends on the mood.
I mean, I'll give the easiest answer for the most general would be Born to Run for Springsteen
in a Jersey Boy.
That's always a good road trip song, you know.
Do you have a favorite car movie?
You know, I just have such an amazing memory of getting to go to the theater to see Days
of Thunder.
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
It's a great movie.
Yep.
Young Tom Cruise, Robert Duvall, Fantastic Film, Love the NASCAR.
I recently watched F1 with Brad Pitt.
That's a great movie too.
Oh, it's so well done.
I totally agree with you.
Do you have a favorite road trip passenger, if you can have a passenger on a nice long
road trip?
Yes.
Unfortunately, I can't take him with me anymore, but for years and years and years, I never
flew to any job, and I drove all across this country with my German Shepherd Blue.
And he was literally always by my side.
We drove in a Jeep Wrangler all across this beautiful country of ours.
And unfortunately, when I was filming Task, I had to put Blue down, so that was our last
journey together.
But he was my ride or die road trip partner.
Did you ever read Steinbeck's book about his travels with Charlie?
No.
It's beautiful.
I love Steinbeck and Jack London, but he had the same relationship with his dog and
late in his career, different situation.
He got an F-150, this is like in the 50s, outfitted it with a place to live in the back, which
was totally radical then, took his dog Charlie, who's a poodle, but a big poodle, very athletic
dog.
And he drove from New York all the way up through upper New York, up through Vermont,
then Maine, then went across the border, drove all the way across the country with his dog
and wrote a book about it.
Travels with Charlie.
It's very touching.
It's a beautiful book.
Anyways.
Well, Jim, if you can see this, this is a John Steinbeck tattoo on my right arm.
No way.
Yes, sir.
This is from East of Eden.
The word is Timshul, which is the sort of operative word in the middle of the book when
the characters are discussing the story of Cain and Abel and Timshul is the word.
That is crazy.
Well, I'm in Carmel and we're all Steinbeck fans here.
So, well, that really resonates with me.
Do you have a driving superpower?
Like a lot of people go, well, I'm really good at getting a parking space when I really
need it.
I'm very good at wayfinding and navigating.
Do you have like a superpower that maybe people would not expect?
I think my superpower is infinite endurance.
I can drive focused alert for a very, very, very long time.
If you go on a road trip with me, we don't need to switch as long as I can sleep, you
know, seven hours a night.
No kidding.
Where do you...
Where does that come from?
How to...
Where...
What's going on there?
Well, I'll tell you a story that ties it in with work.
I was filming Ozark in Atlanta, Georgia.
And while I was filming Ozark, I booked Mank and Mank was filming in Los Angeles, California.
So I had my dog blue.
I was in Atlanta, Georgia.
I had 48...
The third day was only half, so I had less than 72 hours to get everything in the Jeep
and arrive in Los Angeles, California in time for a costume fitting.
I stopped twice.
If anybody's ever driven from east coast to west coast, that was an intense...
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
I was taking like 18-hour shifts.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I keep track of this.
There's a kind of underground movement of the fastest trip from across the United States
in a car.
I think the record now is like 26 hours.
I think the average is like 140 miles an hour.
But the first person to really do it to...
And he did it to protest the 55 mile an hour in his eyes, government overreach was Dan
Gurney who had won Le Mans.
He was a great driver from Southern California and he didn't like the 55 mile an hour speed
limit.
He felt like it was not the right thing for the government to do.
So he got a Ferrari Daytona and he and his buddy went from a bar in New York to Redondo
Beach in 36 hours and they started the race called the Cannonball Run.
And it's been run in four years.
They did a secret and they published an article about it in Car and Driver and he was so popular
after that he was a writing candidate against Richard Nixon in the presidential election.
And on all my race cars I have the sticker that says Dan Gurney for president.
But you and he would have a lot to talk about because that is...
Well, listen, I can't compete with his record.
I will say I'm also very good at parallel parking having spent most of my adult life
in Brooklyn.
You are?
Yes.
Yes.
I can fit the toothpaste back into the tube when it comes to parallel parking.
Well, that's a very valuable capability and you spent a lot of time on the road with
your dad.
I heard that you would go to like Giants games together.
So my grandfather is the Die Hard Giants fan.
Okay, got it.
The comedy is that my dad was the Die Hard Cowboys fan.
Oh my God.
So I would go to the Giants games with my grandfather.
I actually have a distinct memory one day of going into my grandfather's house with
my dad had got me a Dallas Cowboys like rain slicker kind of coat.
And I remember going into my grandma's house and my grandfather said, tell me, come here.
And I went over to him and he took the coat off and he said, Rich, never again.
Oh, that's hardcore.
That's hardcore.
Very, very hardcore, but I'm grateful he did it that way.
I really loved the New York Giants and yeah, my grandfather was a very, very, very, very
serious Giants fan.
We got to be around that a lot growing up is really special.
And our family are Packer people.
So I think Packer fans and Giants fans, even though nothing is the same, we're all kind
of the same because we love our team almost irregardless of what happens, but we all expect
to win every season.
I don't know if that resonates with you or not, but resonates perfectly with me, although
I do think sometimes as a Giants fan watching like for instance, when the Chiefs are winning
or something, I think even when we win as Giants, it's at the edge of your seat, constant
heart attack game after game.
I wonder sometimes watching, or even you guys sometimes in the MVP Rogers seasons, I know
you didn't go all the way, but still like, what must it be like to just have a completely
dominant team where you fully expect with no sweat to win every week?
I love the Giants style.
It's always a little scrappy.
It's always kind of underdog.
We're never fully dominating in all three phases of the game.
I like that.
But I thought it must be nice to be you guys are the Chiefs sometimes where you're going
14 and 3 and just cruising into the bye week.
I think that that future is in store for the Giants.
I don't know why, but I think it's time.
Look at the Eagles, right?
We both have that in common, right?
We don't like the Eagles, but they've had domination.
It's about times that Giants have that.
And the city deserves it.
You've done so many interesting things in your work.
It's so compelling.
Your characters just literally come to life in front of us.
Is that success?
Yeah, it's different than that.
When I was younger, my entire identity was actor, actor, actor, you know, and that was
a really painful way to live and kind of a foolish way to live because when something
went good, I was the king of the universe.
And when something went bad, I was completely worthless.
And I realized, thankfully, thank God, many years ago that that should not be my identity
nor where I put my focus.
And so now my success is based on who I am as a human being, who I am as a father and
as a partner and who I am as a friend.
And my work is something that I love to do, but it is not my identity and it is not how
I measure myself.
Now, paradoxically or perhaps, obviously, once I was able to make that distinction, I feel
like I got infinitely better at my job because I wasn't throttling anything with meaning
that did not belong.
I was allowing myself to do what I might naturally be good at and enjoy it in a way because my
entire identity wasn't tied up in it and it resulted in being a bit more successful doing
it.
So that was a really important lesson I learned.
I don't know if there's any way to articulate that lesson for someone else or if those are
the kind of things we all have to learn on our own time through our own experience.
But the freedom that came with understanding that my value is not in what I do, it would
be hard to overstate that.
And doubling down on that transition, transformation, what drives you is that was that like a moment
or a person or accumulation of experiences?
How did you change your perspective that clearly?
Well, I mean, a lot of things changed by the grace of God, been sober 12 years now.
And in that change, in that time where everything gets turned upside down and you start questioning
and looking at and becoming aware of everything, it was around that same time that I thought
my relationship to what I do is kind of insane.
Like it's not bringing any kind of peace or equilibrium and I don't even know that it's
yielding any kind of useful results.
It's wild, but every now and then we get these moments where we can become more fully aware
of the way we're wired or how we're ordering things in terms of a hierarchy of importance.
And you can look at those things and then you could do it consciously once you know
what you're doing and say like, is this serving me?
Is the order that I have the things in my life ranked in?
Is this serving me?
Is this is this resulting in the best possible version of life for me and those I love?
And at that time, the answer was no.
It's really an amalgamation of a lot of different sources of input that led me to that realization.
You've done a lot of work for a long time before Ozark and what some people would say
break through, but what kept you going in those moments?
Because that's something we all think about in our lives is we may have a glorious moment
here or there, but there's a stick-to-edness that's required to get to those moments.
And sometimes you kind of overlook what got you there.
What advice would you give all of us on what you learned about yourself in those early days?
In the early days, what really kept me going was just an insane passion.
They told us when we were in high school, if there was anything else
that we could possibly do, we should do it just because this business is so hard and
it can be so disheartening and difficult and all those things.
And it's also, I mean, I know everybody takes everything personally when it comes to work,
but our job is especially so because you are your own instrument.
Like everything I'm trying to sell is just me.
It's my face, it's my body, it's my voice, it's all of it.
So you end up taking the rejection so personally and all that stuff.
So for a while, it was just this, I can't do anything else.
I don't want to do anything else.
It was just this obsession with doing it that you would just stand in there and
take the beating and keep on going.
In retrospect now, what I would say if I could talk to my younger self,
if I could have given myself something a little bit sooner, would just be like,
and this is how I work now, which is what I love is the working,
not the result.
I used to be so obsessed with the result.
Did I get the job?
Did the things succeed?
Do I get the praise?
It's like those things are out of my control and also they don't really bring me joy.
Where I find joy, where I love what I do is when I get to go to work in the morning.
And when I get to be there and when I get to work with the people I'm working with and do the work,
it's not the result.
And I've found that that understanding that and then putting all my energy into doing what I'm
doing instead of putting half of my energy into anticipating or worrying about the result
has changed a lot for me because then you can enjoy each day of what you're doing.
It makes it easier to sustain rather than hanging all your hopes on things that are
completely out of your control.
I see.
Okay, that makes sense.
And certainly a very positive and constructive way of looking at things.
But then when you make that transition into these characters,
like task, you're playing someone who's kind of on the edge of morality.
I mean, those are my words, but what interests you about that kind of character?
What intrigues you about that kind of character versus a different kind of character?
Because it clearly connects, it connected with you, at least it seemed to us as viewers.
Wow.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I always find it so beautiful when you get to read a character like that,
who's to me, whose heart is burning so pure.
But because of the circumstances they find themselves in, they're doing things that we
from the outside might say, oh, that's, as you said, perhaps on the edge of morality.
So it forces you into an empathetic posture because it's impossible, I think,
and hopefully we don't mess this up, but it's impossible not to relate to Robbie in some way
or to like him in some way.
You see his motives.
You see why he's doing what he's doing.
He loves his family.
He loves those kids.
His wife left.
He has a huge responsibility that is barely able to take care of,
and he's doing everything he can to take care of his responsibility to those people that depend
on him.
It's impossible not to feel for that.
You know, and so I love those characters.
They take you out of this rigid idea of morality and put you into your heart and say,
maybe I don't agree with everything he's doing, but I do see why he's doing it,
and his intentions are pure.
To have that kind of connection or curiosity, you know, that empathy, as you said,
must come from someplace in your life.
Is there some place you can go to that connects you with that?
Wow, what a beautiful question.
You know, I don't know.
I think a little bit.
It's just kind of the heart I came in with.
I've always been fascinated by trying to understand experience from other points of view.
Ever since I was a young, young boy, I've been a voracious reader.
You know, so just massive books, always my whole life.
In fact, like before I could really articulate what this meant,
I remember being around 14 years old, and I'd read a ton of books,
and there was a friend of mine's mom who just everybody loved.
She was a very special lady, Virgie.
And the compliment I said about her, which made sense to me from reading a lot of books, was
she makes you feel like she read your book.
And what I meant by that was that books, they let you into the secret places of characters
that we might judge from the outside.
But when the writer lets you into their secret place,
lets you see where they came from and what they've been through,
you suddenly feel for them.
And it's just so much harder to say,
good guys, bad guys, black, white, right, wrong.
Everything becomes infinitely more complex.
Yeah, when I personally, on a personal level, when I watch your characters,
I actually think of books.
That's the first thing that came to mind, that scene of you in the car.
You guys both in task in the car, and you're in this contained space.
And as a viewer, you're kind of empathetic to both guys and their perspective in their life.
And you know something's going to happen.
You're in a trip.
It's not like you're in a room.
It's like something's going to happen.
You're going somewhere.
And I felt like you were able to create such a compelling connection with the character,
both of you guys, that it felt like I had kind of read a book in a way.
It must take a lot of people, not just great actors and your hard work,
but actually a lot of people, the story, pick a car, pick the situation.
It must take a lot of people to get it to be that impactful.
Yes, yes.
And I'm glad you say that because we play a team sport.
And it starts with the script.
It really does.
Mark and I are only able to flesh that out, to give you that experience,
because it was written for us.
It's on the page.
So is it possible, or is it normal, I would say, or usual, that when you see the edited version
of great work that you're kind of generally like, wow, that was really smart to do it that way?
Or, wow, really, that happened?
Like, that was me?
I thought I did a good job, but like, this turned out even better.
I don't know.
Do you ever get surprised?
Yes.
I mean, I was surprised early in my career, but you know, all my training,
and for years and years and years, all I did was theater.
So it was very interesting to me what you could do with a camera because of editing.
And I was surprised early in my career, sometimes being working with people who
you would be doing a scene.
And you could tell they didn't even really even understand the scene.
So you're working in real time being like, this is going to be horrible.
This is not like, it doesn't have a rhythm.
It's not alive.
There's no like, you know what I mean?
And then, lo and behold, you get the edited version.
You go, oh, it made it look like that was not what happened in the room that day,
but they cut it in such a way that made it look.
Oh, that's hysterical.
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
Yeah.
Is it ever hard for you to separate from the character?
Do you carry them around or is there a process you go through where you're like, okay, I'm done?
It's so interesting.
You know, I've had this conversation with so many actors because every actor knows
you go to any school, you go to any training, you have really any conversation in the entire
conversation about how to get into character.
Yeah.
And there's never really conversations about how to get that.
Yeah, it's a wild thing because, I mean, the only way to say it truly is a bit of a paradox,
but like, it is you and it's not you, but it is like, I think the only way that it works
properly is if it's some intimate part of you, perhaps magnified, perhaps disordered from what
you would be in the day to day, but you find it somewhere in there.
And so it is kind of deeply personal and you do kind of carry it.
And I think you kind of want to carry it.
Not in the literal sense.
I'm not saying a method.
I don't ask anybody to call me a weird name or character name, whatever.
But you do kind of live in that energy.
And I think you probably want to live in that energy while it's happening.
And then, you know, yeah, it does take a minute to kind of shake it off a little bit.
Especially the great ones where you have a great experience like I did on task.
They kind of really imprint on you in a way or they sort of remind you of a part of yourself
that maybe you'd forgotten about or I don't know the right way to say it.
But in a beautiful way, they all stay with you a little bit, I think.
Interesting.
I give you a lot of credit for that because I'm not trained in that kind of discipline
or I don't have a capability of kind of getting a character or not.
I interview with this really successful company.
I'm not going to say the name, but if I said it, you'd be like,
okay, yeah, that's a really good company.
And then I interviewed at a time when they were like at the very best of what they were.
And I went to the interview and they were all kind of shouting and screaming at each other.
And then at one point, I'm like, why am I here?
And they're like, oh, sorry, that's how we work at this place.
We kind of make fun of each other's ideas and we push on each other until we find the best idea.
And then we move on.
And I decided not to take the job because I knew I would be such a jerk at home
because I would adapt and I would not be able to turn it off that my wife would be like,
who are you?
And I would not be the person I really thought I could be because I knew enough about myself
that I would adapt to something that wasn't good for me.
So that must be a real talent for you, not necessarily because they're all positive
characters and positive empathy.
And you carry a little bit about them or who they are in who you are and insights into the
human person.
But the same token, I don't think I would have the same skill that you do in kind of
knowing who you are while you disengage.
That's interesting.
That's very interesting.
Well, I would push back on that given the beautiful story that you just shared and
good on you, by the way, but I would say that you understand exactly who you are.
And that's why you said no to that job, even though it might have been more money or more
prestige or whatever, because you do know who you are and you didn't want to lose yourself
fully.
Now, keep in mind, the longest version of me having to do this is six months.
Oh, I see.
So you were like, you might have been able to survive in that boardroom yelling at each
other for six months.
You might not have been able to come out five years later.
Yeah, totally.
Well, that's a really good point.
That's a super, yeah.
Okay, got it.
Family for my wife and I, we were parents late in life.
And I see the love that you have for your child and how energizing and how important
your family is.
And I think as a person who is in the public eye, like a CEO too, in a different way,
I think it's great that we're that connected with our families.
So being a dad, how does that affect your work in a way?
Well, that's another beautiful question.
I mean, it kind of changed everything.
I think if anything, it made me even better at my job because it expanded my heart beyond
where I thought my heart could expand to and it certainly expanded my mind.
And I will say that now I take much more seriously what I say yes to and what I say no thanks to.
I see.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm about to go do a very exciting job that I'm looking forward to in New York,
a big movie and that's great.
And other than five days in Texas, I have not worked for the last year and a half.
When I finished task, I was very fortunate that job paid well and I don't spend money foolishly.
So it held out and I got to spend the last year and a half for the most part,
home being a dad with my daughter, which is such a gift that most people don't get to enjoy.
And I thought, well, if I get, you know, if I have this opportunity,
this is what I want to be doing right now.
You know, and so I got to do it and I'm grateful for that.
Do you have a fun thing that you do as a family?
Like do you go on road trips or what's fun in your family?
What do you guys look forward to?
Well, I love that you ask about the road trips because Matilda's just old enough now
where I've started talking about getting a Winnebago because as I told you, I used to drive,
right? I used to drive across country with my dog and I want my new partner to be my daughter.
Yes. Oh, that's cool. Well,
just turned out I have an old 1920s car and I do like a three or four day trip in Colorado,
Arizona or whatever in the summer and I always take like one of my daughters so far
and I have to tell you it's fantastic because a road trip, like when you have to take it
is one thing or a vacation is another thing. But when you're literally just driving to see
beautiful things and driving to drive, wow, and just being together all that time.
And they're like, saying, dad, you're really not driving very well today or, you know,
can you speed up or can you just slow down or, you know, goofing on each other about the music
or, you know, it's really a gift. I would say road tripping or taking a trip is really
a huge gift if you care about the people you're doing it with. Yes, that's beautiful, Jim. My
daughter, she already says, daddy, daddy, go faster, go faster.
That's awesome. I want to ask this question of you. I do ask it for everyone, but I'm going to ask
a little differently for you. As a CEO, afford, is there anything I should think about or any,
not just advice you would give me, but any perspective that you think would be important
for me from your life and your life experiences?
I mean, you know, you understand this better than anybody, but I think that there are
things that have literal value and there are also things that have a symbolic value that transcend
any quantifiable measure. And I would say that your company very specifically is one of those
things that transcends a quantifiable value to this country, to what it means to be an American.
I think that's an incredible thing. I imagine that you feel a certain weight of that responsibility.
If I think of a car company that would, to me, be synonymous with America, you know,
my grandfather, who I told you took me all the giant schemes, worked his way up,
was in the electrical union his entire life and eventually became president of the electric union.
Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. And one of the few rules he gave me that is ingrained in me,
aside from always chairing for the New York Giants, was you always buy an American car.
I think your company symbolizes something very, very beautiful about how we think of our country.
And I don't know what I would say to you to do with that other than to acknowledge that that
must be something that you think a lot about and to think that that must be a kind of responsibility,
because it's also a great power. That is great advice and perspective. That is very useful and
very practical as well. I think about that a lot because that makes you think as a leader,
you should make different decisions than just transactional decisions. My grandfather was
an hourly worker for Ford, just like your grandfather. His job at Ford got my mom to college,
blah, blah, blah. There are millions of people in this country, as you know better than I,
that still deserve an opportunity. Yes. And if we run the company the right way,
I think people will still be proud. And I would say for all the listeners, thank God for your
grandfather. I worked at Toyota for 25 years. I had no idea the social impact of buying a Toyota
versus buying a Ford. I didn't know. And I worked in the industry. Now that I work at Ford, I can see
kids go into college out of our factory workers. I see the intellectual property that gets created
in our country because of the engineers at Ford. When you buy Ford cars, not just out of the sense
of patriotism, all these social things happen with your money that makes our country better.
And I think we could do a better job explaining that. And yeah, that's what makes us different.
So thank you for that perspective. It's very exciting for me to hear that from someone like you
who understands life and all of us and all the ups and downs in life too, so wholesomely.
And thank you for the time. I really enjoyed learning from you. And boy, I think you got this
whole crew here rooting for you for sure. We're all huge fans. And we can't wait to see what you do
next, not only with your career, but with your family. Well, thank you, Jim, so much for this
opportunity. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. And listen, we're all cheering for you always.
Thank you. We're cheering you on. So keep doing what you're doing. And yeah, we're all cheering for
you next season. It could be the season of the first New Giants dynasty. Who knows,
right? Kickoff is only a couple months away. Thank you again, Jim, so much. This is a great
conversation. Thank you, Tom. Yeah. Thank you so much.
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